Re: [Aus-soaring] Horsham Week / VIC State Comps

[JR]

You realise this means the end of the horse drawn zepplin !!
JR
  - Original Message - 
  From: Nick Gilbert 
  To: Discussion of issues relating to Soaring in Australia. 
  Sent: Tuesday, January 30, 2007 12:07 PM
  Subject: Re: [Aus-soaring] Horsham Week / VIC State Comps


  What you are talking about is states being allowed to apply local rules to a 
national contest. Incidently, this (generally speaking) is not a state based 
thing. Any location for a competition can specify local rules that can, in some 
cases, override certain sections of the nationals rules. 

  For someone with no interest in competitons you certainly seem to be showing 
a lot of interest in competitions.

  Nick.

   
  On 1/30/07, David Lawley <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: 
Huh? Re read my post Nick- I never said that State rules apply to Nationals,
or nationals rules apply to state comps, I said it seemed strange to allow 
states to change the nationals rules or introduce new ones to suit
themselves when THEY run a particular nationals i.e. I believe (correct me
if I am wrong)mandatory FLARM at recent Queensland held nationals was a 
STATE decision not national body decision.(Note: Example only FLARMnatics
need not respond) National comps should be based on Nationally decided rules
not any one states whim.

Of course, each State can have their own comp rules for state comps-but 
logic would seem to dictate using the same rules as national championships
to help people prepare properly for the next level up of comp.

I will try to find the reference to such matters regarding competing at 
regional competitions to qualify for a comp license (could be a US thing).
BTW I have no interest in comps myself, just thought it strange that the
national rules could be changed at the whim of a state that is holding 
them, 
I know of no other sport that allows this, although I am sure Victoria
wouldn't mind changing some footy rules so they could (maybe) win a
premiership again eventually(-:

Regards

Dave L


-Original Message-
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
[mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] ] On Behalf Of
[EMAIL PROTECTED]
Sent: Tuesday, 30 January 2007 10:19 AM
To: Discussion of issues relating to Soaring in Australia.
Subject: RE: [Aus-soaring] Horsham Week / VIC State Comps

Dave,

The nationals rules don't apply to state competitions - they apply to
national competitions. Makes perfect sense to me. The state based
competitions arent modifying the nationals rules - they have their own.
Good thing too, they are entry level events.

The state based cricket competition doesn't play 5 day test matches.

Regards,
 
Nick Gilbert
Lotus Notes Administrator - Hardy Wines





"David Lawley" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Sent by: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
30/01/2007 10:03 AM
Please respond to
"Discussion of issues relating to Soaring in Australia."



To
"'Discussion of issues relating to Soaring in Australia.'"

cc

Subject 
RE: [Aus-soaring] Horsham Week / VIC State Comps






Hi All,

Whereas I thought I read somewhere that one qualified for a FAI comp
license
in part by entering regional competitions, a bit of a catch 22 this eh? 

No license, no compete, no compete no license! Why am I not surprised!

One thing I have never been able to fathom is how States are allowed to
modify the nationals rules at will, it seems to me they should be decided 
Nationally, and states should not be able to tack on their own extras,
such
as mandatory FLARM without National body approval of a rule change.

It seems crazy to allow this to me, and I can think of no other sport that 
does this sort of thing. National comp rules should be a matter for
national
consideration, not the whim of a state body.

Regards

Dave L.



-Original Message-
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
[mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Robinson,
Peter B
Sent: Tuesday, 30 January 2007 8:43 AM 
To: Discussion of issues relating to Soaring in Australia.
Subject: RE: [Aus-soaring] Horsham Week / VIC State Comps

Or if you call the event a Regatta then you don't need Competitors
licenses nor do you require competition insurance. 

-Original Message-
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
[mailto: [EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Robert
Hart
Sent: Tuesday, 30 January 2007 7:54 AM
To: Discussion of issues relating to Soaring in Australia.
Subject: Re: [Aus-soaring] Horsham Week / VIC State Comps 

David Nugent wrote:
> Rolf,
>
> Competition licenses have not been required at past Horsham Weeks
> (including when they are a State comp), my understanding is that they
> are only reqd at National level. 
It is my understanding that in order to be able to use the GFA
   

RE: [Aus-soaring] radio

[Texler, Michael]

>Hi all, can someone point me at the best spot for reading up on radio 
procedures? Seems to be nothing on the GFA site.

"Airways and Radio Procedures"
It has been withdrawn from sale pending review see:
http://www.gfa.org.au/sales/index.php#books


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Re: [Aus-soaring] radio

[Geoff Kidd]

G'day Wayne

Have a look at the new procedures at 
http://www.dotars.gov.au/aviation/airspace_reform/stage_2c/training.aspx

It's all there ... (or just do what was the standard procedure at Toc 
... which is what this is).

Regards Geoff



  - Original Message - 
  From: Wayne Carter 
  To: aus-soaring@lists.internode.on.net 
  Sent: Tuesday, January 30, 2007 5:55 PM
  Subject: [Aus-soaring] radio


  Hi all, can someone point me at the best spot for reading up on radio 
  procedures? Seems to be nothing on the GFA site.


  Thanks, Wayne Carter

  [EMAIL PROTECTED]
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Re: [Aus-soaring] Horsham Week / VIC State Comps

[Peter Stephenson]

and Gliding Queensland bent over backwards to ensure that all prospective 
competitors were able to have a FLARM fitted, including making ones available 
on loan from GQ and other Clubs so no-one was disadvantaged. 
PeterS 
  - Original Message - 
  From: Ross McLean 
  To: 'Discussion of issues relating to Soaring in Australia.' 
  Sent: Tuesday, January 30, 2007 1:57 PM
  Subject: RE: [Aus-soaring] Horsham Week / VIC State Comps


  Hi David

  I am one of two elected pilot representatives to the National Competition 
Committee (NCC) for National Multi Class and I would like to try to address 
your point, which is a good one, and one with which I largely agree.



  In the particular instance you referred to, the compulsory FLARM rule applied 
by Queensland Gliding as a local rule to the National Multi Class Competition 
in October  2006 was discussed at length at NCC and as a result there was then 
subsequent, detailed, and co-operative discussion with QG on the rule.  The QG 
rules were modified as a result of that input and it was then agreed at NCC to 
respect the QG rule, on compulsory FLARM, and to allow it as a local rule, for 
that competition. The NCC most probably could have stood its ground and 
insisted that the rule be waived at a National level, but it was agreed not to 
become confrontational on issues regarding safety.  I think that was a good 
decision.



  I have no doubt that there will be further discussion at NCC and at the 
Sports Committee, on the wider issue of National Rules not being overridden at 
National competitions, when they meet later this year.



  Hope this helps.

  Regards, ROSS




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[Aus-soaring] radio

[Wayne Carter]

Hi all, can someone point me at the best spot for reading up on radio 
procedures? Seems to be nothing on the GFA site.



Thanks, Wayne Carter

[EMAIL PROTECTED]
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RE: [Aus-soaring] Horsham Week / VIC State Comps

[Robert Moore]

David I see you are back at your employment.

At 01:16 PM 30/01/2007, David Lawley wrote:

Nick said:

"Any location for a competition can specify local rules that can, in 
some cases, override certain sections of the nationals rules."


Yep and that is exactly what seems strange, as I said name any other 
National sport that allows state organizers to do this.


A passing comment or two actually doesn't mean a lot of interest in 
comps Nick, just an interest in equity of rules.


How about addressing the point? (Which I am obviously going to have 
to simplify for you) Why are individual states locals be allowed to 
override National Championship rules?


Regards

Dave




--
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] 
[mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Nick Gilbert

Sent: Tuesday, 30 January 2007 12:08 PM
To: Discussion of issues relating to Soaring in Australia.
Subject: Re: [Aus-soaring] Horsham Week / VIC State Comps

What you are talking about is states being allowed to apply local 
rules to a national contest. Incidently, this (generally speaking) 
is not a state based thing. Any location for a competition can 
specify local rules that can, in some cases, override certain 
sections of the nationals rules.


For someone with no interest in competitons you certainly seem to be 
showing a lot of interest in competitions.


Nick.


On 1/30/07, David Lawley 
<[EMAIL PROTECTED]> 
wrote:

Huh? Re read my post Nick- I never said that State rules apply to Nationals,
or nationals rules apply to state comps, I said it seemed strange to allow
states to change the nationals rules or introduce new ones to suit
themselves when THEY run a particular nationals i.e. I believe (correct me
if I am wrong)mandatory FLARM at recent Queensland held nationals was a
STATE decision not national body decision.(Note: Example only FLARMnatics
need not respond) National comps should be based on Nationally decided rules
not any one states whim.

Of course, each State can have their own comp rules for state comps-but
logic would seem to dictate using the same rules as national championships
to help people prepare properly for the next level up of comp.

I will try to find the reference to such matters regarding competing at
regional competitions to qualify for a comp license (could be a US thing).
BTW I have no interest in comps myself, just thought it strange that the
national rules could be changed at the whim of a state that is holding them,
I know of no other sport that allows this, although I am sure Victoria
wouldn't mind changing some footy rules so they could (maybe) win a
premiership again eventually(-:

Regards

Dave L


-Original Message-
From: 
[EMAIL PROTECTED]

[mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] ] On Behalf Of
[EMAIL PROTECTED]
Sent: Tuesday, 30 January 2007 10:19 AM
To: Discussion of issues relating to Soaring in Australia.
Subject: RE: [Aus-soaring] Horsham Week / VIC State Comps

Dave,

The nationals rules don't apply to state competitions - they apply to
national competitions. Makes perfect sense to me. The state based
competitions arent modifying the nationals rules - they have their own.
Good thing too, they are entry level events.

The state based cricket competition doesn't play 5 day test matches.

Regards,

Nick Gilbert
Lotus Notes Administrator - Hardy Wines





"David Lawley" 
<[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Sent by: 
[EMAIL PROTECTED]

30/01/2007 10:03 AM
Please respond to
"Discussion of issues relating to Soaring in Australia."
<aus-soaring@lists.internode.on.net  
>



To
"'Discussion of issues relating to Soaring in Australia.'"
<aus-soaring@lists.internode.on.net>
cc

Subject
RE: [Aus-soaring] Horsham Week / VIC State Comps






Hi All,

Whereas I thought I read somewhere that one qualified for a FAI comp
license
in part by entering regional competitions, a bit of a catch 22 this eh?

No license, no compete, no compete no license! Why am I not surprised!

One thing I have never been able to fathom is how States are allowed to
modify the nationals rules at will, it seems to me they should be decided
Nationally, and states should not be able to tack on their own extras,
such
as mandatory FLARM without National body approval of a rule change.

It seems crazy to allow this to me, and I can think of no other sport that
does this sort of thing. National comp rules should be a matter for
national
consideration, not the whim of a state body.

Regards

Dave L.



-Original Message-
From: 
[EMAIL PROTECTED]

[mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Robinson,
Peter B
Sent: Tuesday, 30 January 2007 8:43 AM
To: Discussion of issues relating to Soaring in Australia.
Subject: RE: [Aus-soaring] Horsham Week / VIC State Comps

Or if you call the event a Regatta then you don't need

Re: [Aus-soaring] Sports rules in general - was Horsham Week / VIC State Comps

[Matthew Gage]

Dave,

It depends on the sport.

The rules I faced in Triathlon varied specifically in respect to ³drafting²
when cycling (and swimming). Although at the time the International and
National rules permitted it, most regional comps (in the UK) banned it. This
actually make a huge difference to the sport, placing much more emphasis on
running than either swimming or cycling as those weaker in those disciplines
can now get a free ride.

Sailing changes many rules like you suggest. Particularly in match racing ­
each ³heat² for a national championship may well take place in different
types of boat with different crew numbers (from 3 to 8 from experience).
However, in general, it will be mandatory safety equipment that is altered
at a local level based on the venue, and state or national legislation (for
international events) - unlike gliding, sailing has fixed international
rules that can not be changed on a national or local basis, however, the
event structure can. E.g. Choice of boats, crew limits (number of weight),
handicap systems (if any), safety equipment, required qualifications,
scoring, penalties, etc.

Motor Racing, depending on the exact type is similar again !




On 30/1/07 3:52 PM, "David Lawley" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
wrote:

> Hi all,
>  
> Thank you Ross for your post it certainly addresses my actual question at
> last!
>  
> I was referring to sports of a similar format that have a single national comp
> to decide the national champ, not sports where a series of regional events
> produces a national champ. Do the actual rules of the way a race car is
> prepared or the events raced in a triathlon, or the length of a boat in
> competition change from state comp to state comp at the whim of the state,
> site safety related factors are simply not what I was referring to.
>  
> Site related safety rules as some have mentioned are not what I was trying to
> get understand, it was cases such as my example, where a new rule based on
> local preference not directly site safety related issues is made, overriding
> National rules. Sorry if I didn¹t make that clear enough!
>  
> Regards
>  
> Dave
>  
>  
> 
> 
> From: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
> [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Ross McLean
> Sent: Tuesday, 30 January 2007 2:28 PM
> To: 'Discussion of issues relating to Soaring in Australia.'
> Subject: RE: [Aus-soaring] Horsham Week / VIC State Comps
>  
> 
> Hi David
> I am one of two elected pilot representatives to the National Competition
> Committee (NCC) for National Multi Class and I would like to try to address
> your point, which is a good one, and one with which I largely agree.
>  
> In the particular instance you referred to, the compulsory FLARM rule applied
> by Queensland Gliding as a local rule to the National Multi Class Competition
> in October  2006 was discussed at length at NCC and as a result there was then
> subsequent, detailed, and co-operative discussion with QG on the rule.  The QG
> rules were modified as a result of that input and it was then agreed at NCC to
> respect the QG rule, on compulsory FLARM, and to allow it as a local rule, for
> that competition. The NCC most probably could have stood its ground and
> insisted that the rule be waived at a National level, but it was agreed not to
> become confrontational on issues regarding safety.  I think that was a good
> decision.
>  
> I have no doubt that there will be further discussion at NCC and at the Sports
> Committee, on the wider issue of National Rules not being overridden at
> National competitions, when they meet later this year.
>  
> Hope this helps.
> Regards, ROSS
>  
> 
> 
> From: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
> [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of David Lawley
> Sent: Tuesday, 30 January 2007 1:47 PM
> To: 'Discussion of issues relating to Soaring in Australia.'
> Subject: RE: [Aus-soaring] Horsham Week / VIC State Comps
>  
> Nick said:
>  
> ³Any location for a competition can specify local rules that can, in some
> cases, override certain sections of the nationals rules.²
>  
> Yep and that is exactly what seems strange, as I said name any other National
> sport that allows state organizers to do this.
>  
> A passing comment or two actually doesn¹t mean a lot of interest in comps
> Nick, just an interest in equity of rules.
>  
> How about addressing the point? (Which I am obviously going to have to
> simplify for you) Why are individual states locals be allowed to override
> National Championship rules?
>  
> Regards
>  
> Dave
>  
>  
>  
> 
> 
> From: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
> [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Nick Gilbert
> Sent: Tuesday, 30 January 2007 12:08 PM
> To: Discussion of issues relating to Soaring in Australia.
> Subject: Re: [Aus-soaring] Horsham Week / VIC State Comps
>  
> 
> What you are talking about is states being allowed to apply local rules to a
> national contest. Incidently, this (generally speaking) is not a state based
> thing. Any location for a competition can specify local rules that can,

[Aus-soaring] Competition Licences and Insurance

[Tim Shirley]

Hello all,

In the December 2005 issue of Soaring Australia, an article appeared
which was written by me and endorsed by the GFA Sports Committee.  It
read as follows:

"Most pilots who have been involved with the gliding competition scene
or who are owners of gliders will know that the insurance requirements
have changed considerably over the last few years.

In the old days, we were free to decide our own level of insurance - the
risk was ours and we decided whether the risk was worth the premium.
Perhaps unfortunately, those days are past.

This is not the GFA's fault, or a choice GFA made.  Rather it is a
change that has occurred across the board in society.  We will all have
an opinion about whether it is a good thing - but good or bad we cannot
ignore it.

One of the concerns that Sports Committee had was to ensure the
protection of Competition officials from the possibility of litigation
arising from accidents during a competition.  Although there has never
been such a case in gliding in Australia, there have been cases in other
sports.  The GFA consulted OAMPS - the most experienced glider insurance
broker - and arranged for special cover to be available to competition
pilots which would give protection to officials when the glider was
being flown in a competition.

This involved a requirement for the competition to operate to certain
basic standards, which were set in consultation between Sports Committee
and the insurers.  As a result we now have a concept of "endorsed"
competitions.  The endorsement is done by the Sports Committee.
Organisers need to request the endorsement from the Chair of Sports
Committee (Rob Moore) or the Chair of NCC (myself), which will be
provided by email.  

The requirements for endorsement are:

.   Competition Director to be approved by CSC or delegate
.   Safety Officer to be approved by RTO/Ops
.   CD and Safety Officer to be different people in Nationals and
State Comps
.   Insurance to include the General Competition Endorsement on all
policies, and a minimum of $1M 3rd party liability cover for all pilots.
.   All pilots are required to have an FAI Competitors Licence. 

This applies to all major competitions - Nationals, State Competitions
and other events whose scope goes beyond a normal club operation.  Club
Regattas do not need this endorsement because they are run under the
control of a club operation and are therefore protected under insurance
which covers instructors.

While we would probably all prefer that it wasn't necessary, this
endorsement process is a fact of life.  The requirements are not
excessive - in fact most gliders already carry the necessary insurance
and most pilots who compete at this level hold FAI Competitors
Licences."

If Horsham Week wishes to give its officials the protection afforded by
the insurance cover, then pilots need to have a Competitors Licence,
because that is part of the insurance deal.  I am sure that those
intending to compete at Horsham will all want to give the hard-working
volunteer organisers all the insurance protection they can get.

It's perhaps worth remembering that you need to hold an FAI Competitors
Licence for 8 years before it has cost the equivalent of a single tow to
2000ft.  

Cheers

Tim




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[Aus-soaring] Appendix ;-)

[Texler, Michael]

>It feels to me like the human appendix - no residual purpose remains for it to 
>be here..

On the contrary!

Having an appendix is a way to train pathologists, medical students, 
anaesthetists and surgeons about acute inflammation and operative procedures.

It would also appear that an appendix has a use of making a small number 
otherwise healthy young (and occasionally old) people quite sick and killing 
them if left untreated.

Medical and health science would be at a loss without the appendix (tongue 
planted very firmly in cheek)...

Let's go gliding...

Dr. Michael L. Texler M.B. B.S. M.D.(Adel) F.R.C.P.A.
Consultant Pathologist

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RE: [Aus-soaring] Horsham Week / VIC State Comps

[David Lawley]

Hi all,

 

Thank you Ross for your post it certainly addresses my actual question at
last!

 

I was referring to sports of a similar format that have a single national
comp to decide the national champ, not sports where a series of regional
events produces a national champ. Do the actual rules of the way a race car
is prepared or the events raced in a triathlon, or the length of a boat in
competition change from state comp to state comp at the whim of the state,
site safety related factors are simply not what I was referring to. 

 

Site related safety rules as some have mentioned are not what I was trying
to get understand, it was cases such as my example, where a new rule based
on local preference not directly site safety related issues is made,
overriding National rules. Sorry if I didn't make that clear enough!

 

Regards

 

Dave

 

 

  _  

From: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
[mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Ross McLean
Sent: Tuesday, 30 January 2007 2:28 PM
To: 'Discussion of issues relating to Soaring in Australia.'
Subject: RE: [Aus-soaring] Horsham Week / VIC State Comps

 

Hi David

I am one of two elected pilot representatives to the National Competition
Committee (NCC) for National Multi Class and I would like to try to address
your point, which is a good one, and one with which I largely agree.

 

In the particular instance you referred to, the compulsory FLARM rule
applied by Queensland Gliding as a local rule to the National Multi Class
Competition in October  2006 was discussed at length at NCC and as a result
there was then subsequent, detailed, and co-operative discussion with QG on
the rule.  The QG rules were modified as a result of that input and it was
then agreed at NCC to respect the QG rule, on compulsory FLARM, and to allow
it as a local rule, for that competition. The NCC most probably could have
stood its ground and insisted that the rule be waived at a National level,
but it was agreed not to become confrontational on issues regarding safety.
I think that was a good decision.

 

I have no doubt that there will be further discussion at NCC and at the
Sports Committee, on the wider issue of National Rules not being overridden
at National competitions, when they meet later this year.

 

Hope this helps.

Regards, ROSS

 

  _  

From: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
[mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of David
Lawley
Sent: Tuesday, 30 January 2007 1:47 PM
To: 'Discussion of issues relating to Soaring in Australia.'
Subject: RE: [Aus-soaring] Horsham Week / VIC State Comps

 

Nick said:

 

"Any location for a competition can specify local rules that can, in some
cases, override certain sections of the nationals rules."

 

Yep and that is exactly what seems strange, as I said name any other
National sport that allows state organizers to do this.  

 

A passing comment or two actually doesn't mean a lot of interest in comps
Nick, just an interest in equity of rules.

 

How about addressing the point? (Which I am obviously going to have to
simplify for you) Why are individual states locals be allowed to override
National Championship rules?

 

Regards

 

Dave

 

 

 

  _  

From: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
[mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Nick
Gilbert
Sent: Tuesday, 30 January 2007 12:08 PM
To: Discussion of issues relating to Soaring in Australia.
Subject: Re: [Aus-soaring] Horsham Week / VIC State Comps

 

What you are talking about is states being allowed to apply local rules to a
national contest. Incidently, this (generally speaking) is not a state based
thing. Any location for a competition can specify local rules that can, in
some cases, override certain sections of the nationals rules. 

 

For someone with no interest in competitons you certainly seem to be showing
a lot of interest in competitions.

 

Nick.

 

On 1/30/07, David Lawley <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: 

Huh? Re read my post Nick- I never said that State rules apply to Nationals,
or nationals rules apply to state comps, I said it seemed strange to allow 
states to change the nationals rules or introduce new ones to suit
themselves when THEY run a particular nationals i.e. I believe (correct me
if I am wrong)mandatory FLARM at recent Queensland held nationals was a 
STATE decision not national body decision.(Note: Example only FLARMnatics
need not respond) National comps should be based on Nationally decided rules
not any one states whim.

Of course, each State can have their own comp rules for state comps-but 
logic would seem to dictate using the same rules as national championships
to help people prepare properly for the next level up of comp.

I will try to find the reference to such matters regarding competing at 
regional competitions to qualify for a comp license (could be a US thing).
BTW I have no interest in comps myself, just thought it strange that the
national rules could be changed at the whim of a state that is holding them,

I know of no other sport that allows this, although I am sure Vic

Re: [Aus-soaring] Horsham Week / VIC State Comps

[Simon Hackett]

Its a piece of paper whose purpose appears to be that its absence can  
sometimes prevent you from competing in a gliding competition.


I have never discerned any other useful purpose for this piece of paper.

It feels to me like the human appendix - no residual purpose remains  
for it to be here, but evolution hasn't gotten around to removing it  
from the world as yet.


Simon

On 29/01/2007, at 5:49 PM, JR wrote:


This is the licence you need to compete with,
regards JR
- Original Message -
From: "plchampness" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: "Discussion of issues relating to Soaring in Australia."

Sent: Monday, January 29, 2007 9:29 AM
Subject: Re: [Aus-soaring] Horsham Week / VIC State Comps



Thanks Rolf,

What is the competition Licence?

Yours Peter Champness


 "rolf a. buelter" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:

Dear All
Horsham Week in combination with the Victorian State Competition  
is on
from Saturday February 3rd to Saturday February 10th. I would like  
to remind
all pilots planning on coming to have the required documents, e.g.  
comp

license, third party insurance, etc. available at registration.

Best Regards
Rolf A. Buelter
Comps Director
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RE: [Aus-soaring] Horsham Week / VIC State Comps

[Ross McLean]

Hi David

I am one of two elected pilot representatives to the National Competition
Committee (NCC) for National Multi Class and I would like to try to address
your point, which is a good one, and one with which I largely agree.

 

In the particular instance you referred to, the compulsory FLARM rule
applied by Queensland Gliding as a local rule to the National Multi Class
Competition in October  2006 was discussed at length at NCC and as a result
there was then subsequent, detailed, and co-operative discussion with QG on
the rule.  The QG rules were modified as a result of that input and it was
then agreed at NCC to respect the QG rule, on compulsory FLARM, and to allow
it as a local rule, for that competition. The NCC most probably could have
stood its ground and insisted that the rule be waived at a National level,
but it was agreed not to become confrontational on issues regarding safety.
I think that was a good decision.

 

I have no doubt that there will be further discussion at NCC and at the
Sports Committee, on the wider issue of National Rules not being overridden
at National competitions, when they meet later this year.

 

Hope this helps.

Regards, ROSS

 

  _  

From: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
[mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of David
Lawley
Sent: Tuesday, 30 January 2007 1:47 PM
To: 'Discussion of issues relating to Soaring in Australia.'
Subject: RE: [Aus-soaring] Horsham Week / VIC State Comps

 

Nick said:

 

"Any location for a competition can specify local rules that can, in some
cases, override certain sections of the nationals rules."

 

Yep and that is exactly what seems strange, as I said name any other
National sport that allows state organizers to do this.  

 

A passing comment or two actually doesn't mean a lot of interest in comps
Nick, just an interest in equity of rules.

 

How about addressing the point? (Which I am obviously going to have to
simplify for you) Why are individual states locals be allowed to override
National Championship rules?

 

Regards

 

Dave

 

 

 

  _  

From: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
[mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Nick
Gilbert
Sent: Tuesday, 30 January 2007 12:08 PM
To: Discussion of issues relating to Soaring in Australia.
Subject: Re: [Aus-soaring] Horsham Week / VIC State Comps

 

What you are talking about is states being allowed to apply local rules to a
national contest. Incidently, this (generally speaking) is not a state based
thing. Any location for a competition can specify local rules that can, in
some cases, override certain sections of the nationals rules. 

 

For someone with no interest in competitons you certainly seem to be showing
a lot of interest in competitions.

 

Nick.

 

On 1/30/07, David Lawley <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: 

Huh? Re read my post Nick- I never said that State rules apply to Nationals,
or nationals rules apply to state comps, I said it seemed strange to allow 
states to change the nationals rules or introduce new ones to suit
themselves when THEY run a particular nationals i.e. I believe (correct me
if I am wrong)mandatory FLARM at recent Queensland held nationals was a 
STATE decision not national body decision.(Note: Example only FLARMnatics
need not respond) National comps should be based on Nationally decided rules
not any one states whim.

Of course, each State can have their own comp rules for state comps-but 
logic would seem to dictate using the same rules as national championships
to help people prepare properly for the next level up of comp.

I will try to find the reference to such matters regarding competing at 
regional competitions to qualify for a comp license (could be a US thing).
BTW I have no interest in comps myself, just thought it strange that the
national rules could be changed at the whim of a state that is holding them,

I know of no other sport that allows this, although I am sure Victoria
wouldn't mind changing some footy rules so they could (maybe) win a
premiership again eventually(-:

Regards

Dave L


-Original Message-
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
[mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] ] On Behalf Of
[EMAIL PROTECTED]
Sent: Tuesday, 30 January 2007 10:19 AM
To: Discussion of issues relating to Soaring in Australia.
Subject: RE: [Aus-soaring] Horsham Week / VIC State Comps

Dave,

The nationals rules don't apply to state competitions - they apply to
national competitions. Makes perfect sense to me. The state based
competitions arent modifying the nationals rules - they have their own.
Good thing too, they are entry level events.

The state based cricket competition doesn't play 5 day test matches.

Regards,
 
Nick Gilbert
Lotus Notes Administrator - Hardy Wines





"David Lawley" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Sent by: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
30/01/2007 10:03 AM
Please respond to
"Discussion of issues relating to Soaring in Australia."



To
"'Discussion of issues relating to Soaring in Australia.'"

cc

Subject 
RE: [Aus-soaring] Horsham Week / VIC State Comps






Hi All,

W

Re: [Aus-soaring] Horsham Week / VIC State Comps

[Matthew Gage]

Try

Sailing
Triathlon
Motor Sport

For starters, and only because these are the only other sports I have
competed in at at least a regional level (as in State).



On 30/1/07 1:46 PM, "David Lawley" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
wrote:

> Nick said:
>  
> ³Any location for a competition can specify local rules that can, in some
> cases, override certain sections of the nationals rules.²
>  
> Yep and that is exactly what seems strange, as I said name any other National
> sport that allows state organizers to do this.
>  
> A passing comment or two actually doesn¹t mean a lot of interest in comps
> Nick, just an interest in equity of rules.
>  
> How about addressing the point? (Which I am obviously going to have to
> simplify for you) Why are individual states locals be allowed to override
> National Championship rules?
>  
> Regards
>  
> Dave
>  
>  
>  
> 
> 
> From: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
> [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Nick Gilbert
> Sent: Tuesday, 30 January 2007 12:08 PM
> To: Discussion of issues relating to Soaring in Australia.
> Subject: Re: [Aus-soaring] Horsham Week / VIC State Comps
>  
> 
> What you are talking about is states being allowed to apply local rules to a
> national contest. Incidently, this (generally speaking) is not a state based
> thing. Any location for a competition can specify local rules that can, in
> some cases, override certain sections of the nationals rules.
> 
>  
> 
> For someone with no interest in competitons you certainly seem to be showing a
> lot of interest in competitions.
> 
>  
> 
> Nick.
> 
>  
> 
> On 1/30/07, David Lawley <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> Huh? Re read my post Nick- I never said that State rules apply to Nationals,
> or nationals rules apply to state comps, I said it seemed strange to allow
> states to change the nationals rules or introduce new ones to suit
> themselves when THEY run a particular nationals i.e. I believe (correct me
> if I am wrong)mandatory FLARM at recent Queensland held nationals was a
> STATE decision not national body decision.(Note: Example only FLARMnatics
> need not respond) National comps should be based on Nationally decided rules
> not any one states whim.
> 
> Of course, each State can have their own comp rules for state comps-but
> logic would seem to dictate using the same rules as national championships
> to help people prepare properly for the next level up of comp.
> 
> I will try to find the reference to such matters regarding competing at
> regional competitions to qualify for a comp license (could be a US thing).
> BTW I have no interest in comps myself, just thought it strange that the
> national rules could be changed at the whim of a state that is holding them,
> I know of no other sport that allows this, although I am sure Victoria
> wouldn't mind changing some footy rules so they could (maybe) win a
> premiership again eventually(-:
> 
> Regards
> 
> Dave L
> 
> 
> -Original Message-
> From: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
> [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]
>  ] On Behalf Of
> [EMAIL PROTECTED]
> Sent: Tuesday, 30 January 2007 10:19 AM
> To: Discussion of issues relating to Soaring in Australia.
> Subject: RE: [Aus-soaring] Horsham Week / VIC State Comps
> 
> Dave,
> 
> The nationals rules don't apply to state competitions - they apply to
> national competitions. Makes perfect sense to me. The state based
> competitions arent modifying the nationals rules - they have their own.
> Good thing too, they are entry level events.
> 
> The state based cricket competition doesn't play 5 day test matches.
> 
> Regards,
>  
> Nick Gilbert
> Lotus Notes Administrator - Hardy Wines
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> "David Lawley" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
> Sent by: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
> 30/01/2007 10:03 AM
> Please respond to
> "Discussion of issues relating to Soaring in Australia."
>   >
> 
> 
> To
> "'Discussion of issues relating to Soaring in Australia.'"
> 
> cc
> 
> Subject 
> RE: [Aus-soaring] Horsham Week / VIC State Comps
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Hi All,
> 
> Whereas I thought I read somewhere that one qualified for a FAI comp
> license
> in part by entering regional competitions, a bit of a catch 22 this eh?
> 
> No license, no compete, no compete no license! Why am I not surprised!
> 
> One thing I have never been able to fathom is how States are allowed to
> modify the nationals rules at will, it seems to me they should be decided
> Nationally, and states should not be able to tack on their own extras,
> such
> as mandatory FLARM without National body approval of a rule change.
> 
> It seems crazy to allow this to me, and I can think of no other sport that
> does this sort of thing. National comp rules should be a matter for
> national
> consideration, not the whim of a state body.
> 
> Regards
> 
> Dave L.
> 
> 
> 
> -Original Message-
> From: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
> [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Robinson,
> Peter B
> Sent: Tuesday, 30 January 2007 8:43

Re: [Aus-soaring] Horsham Week / VIC State Comps

[Catherine Conway]

Hi David

These are usually local rules and are changed due to the  
peculiarities of the site or situation, usually for site specific  
safety reasons.  Examples of local rules are usually what radio  
frequencies should be used at the site, thermalling direction/radius  
(ie RH turns within 10 km of the airfield) etc.  The general  
competition rules are not changed.


Other sports probably don't suffer from these sorts of variations,  
although when I was showjumping competitively there where the  
equivalent of local rules eg shutting various gates to protect  
competitors and their horses if one got away...


-Cath

On 30/01/2007, at 1:16 PM, David Lawley wrote:


Nick said:



“Any location for a competition can specify local rules that can,  
in some cases, override certain sections of the nationals rules.”




Yep and that is exactly what seems strange, as I said name any  
other National sport that allows state organizers to do this.




A passing comment or two actually doesn’t mean a lot of interest in  
comps Nick, just an interest in equity of rules.




How about addressing the point? (Which I am obviously going to have  
to simplify for you) Why are individual states locals be allowed to  
override National Championship rules?




Regards



Dave







From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:aus- 
[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Nick Gilbert

Sent: Tuesday, 30 January 2007 12:08 PM
To: Discussion of issues relating to Soaring in Australia.
Subject: Re: [Aus-soaring] Horsham Week / VIC State Comps



What you are talking about is states being allowed to apply local  
rules to a national contest. Incidently, this (generally speaking)  
is not a state based thing. Any location for a competition can  
specify local rules that can, in some cases, override certain  
sections of the nationals rules.




For someone with no interest in competitons you certainly seem to  
be showing a lot of interest in competitions.




Nick.



On 1/30/07, David Lawley <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:

Huh? Re read my post Nick- I never said that State rules apply to  
Nationals,
or nationals rules apply to state comps, I said it seemed strange  
to allow

states to change the nationals rules or introduce new ones to suit
themselves when THEY run a particular nationals i.e. I believe  
(correct me
if I am wrong)mandatory FLARM at recent Queensland held nationals  
was a
STATE decision not national body decision.(Note: Example only  
FLARMnatics
need not respond) National comps should be based on Nationally  
decided rules

not any one states whim.

Of course, each State can have their own comp rules for state comps- 
but
logic would seem to dictate using the same rules as national  
championships

to help people prepare properly for the next level up of comp.

I will try to find the reference to such matters regarding  
competing at
regional competitions to qualify for a comp license (could be a US  
thing).
BTW I have no interest in comps myself, just thought it strange  
that the
national rules could be changed at the whim of a state that is  
holding them,

I know of no other sport that allows this, although I am sure Victoria
wouldn't mind changing some footy rules so they could (maybe) win a
premiership again eventually(-:

Regards

Dave L


-Original Message-
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
[mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] ] On Behalf Of
[EMAIL PROTECTED]
Sent: Tuesday, 30 January 2007 10:19 AM
To: Discussion of issues relating to Soaring in Australia.
Subject: RE: [Aus-soaring] Horsham Week / VIC State Comps

Dave,

The nationals rules don't apply to state competitions - they apply to
national competitions. Makes perfect sense to me. The state based
competitions arent modifying the nationals rules - they have their  
own.

Good thing too, they are entry level events.

The state based cricket competition doesn't play 5 day test matches.

Regards,

Nick Gilbert
Lotus Notes Administrator - Hardy Wines





"David Lawley" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Sent by: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
30/01/2007 10:03 AM
Please respond to
"Discussion of issues relating to Soaring in Australia."



To
"'Discussion of issues relating to Soaring in Australia.'"

cc

Subject
RE: [Aus-soaring] Horsham Week / VIC State Comps






Hi All,

Whereas I thought I read somewhere that one qualified for a FAI comp
license
in part by entering regional competitions, a bit of a catch 22 this  
eh?


No license, no compete, no compete no license! Why am I not surprised!

One thing I have never been able to fathom is how States are  
allowed to
modify the nationals rules at will, it seems to me they should be  
decided

Nationally, and states should not be able to tack on their own extras,
such
as mandatory FLARM without National body approval of a rule change.

It seems crazy to allow this to me, and I can think of no other  
sport that

does this sort of thing. National comp rules should be a matter for
national
consideration, not the whim of a state body.

Regards

Da

RE: [Aus-soaring] Horsham Week / VIC State Comps

[Stuart & Kerri FERGUSON]

"name any other National sport that allows state organizers to do this".  

 

Motor Sport.

 

There is the CAMS Manual and then each event issues its own Supplementary
Regulations 

referred to as "Sup Regs"

 

SDF

 

 

 

  _  

From: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
[mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of David
Lawley
Sent: Tuesday, 30 January 2007 1:47 PM
To: 'Discussion of issues relating to Soaring in Australia.'
Subject: RE: [Aus-soaring] Horsham Week / VIC State Comps

 

Nick said:

 

"Any location for a competition can specify local rules that can, in some
cases, override certain sections of the nationals rules."

 

Yep and that is exactly what seems strange, as I said name any other
National sport that allows state organizers to do this.  

 

A passing comment or two actually doesn't mean a lot of interest in comps
Nick, just an interest in equity of rules.

 

How about addressing the point? (Which I am obviously going to have to
simplify for you) Why are individual states locals be allowed to override
National Championship rules?

 

Regards

 

Dave

 

 

 

  _  

From: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
[mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Nick
Gilbert
Sent: Tuesday, 30 January 2007 12:08 PM
To: Discussion of issues relating to Soaring in Australia.
Subject: Re: [Aus-soaring] Horsham Week / VIC State Comps

 

What you are talking about is states being allowed to apply local rules to a
national contest. Incidently, this (generally speaking) is not a state based
thing. Any location for a competition can specify local rules that can, in
some cases, override certain sections of the nationals rules. 

 

For someone with no interest in competitons you certainly seem to be showing
a lot of interest in competitions.

 

Nick.

 

On 1/30/07, David Lawley <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: 

Huh? Re read my post Nick- I never said that State rules apply to Nationals,
or nationals rules apply to state comps, I said it seemed strange to allow 
states to change the nationals rules or introduce new ones to suit
themselves when THEY run a particular nationals i.e. I believe (correct me
if I am wrong)mandatory FLARM at recent Queensland held nationals was a 
STATE decision not national body decision.(Note: Example only FLARMnatics
need not respond) National comps should be based on Nationally decided rules
not any one states whim.

Of course, each State can have their own comp rules for state comps-but 
logic would seem to dictate using the same rules as national championships
to help people prepare properly for the next level up of comp.

I will try to find the reference to such matters regarding competing at 
regional competitions to qualify for a comp license (could be a US thing).
BTW I have no interest in comps myself, just thought it strange that the
national rules could be changed at the whim of a state that is holding them,

I know of no other sport that allows this, although I am sure Victoria
wouldn't mind changing some footy rules so they could (maybe) win a
premiership again eventually(-:

Regards

Dave L


-Original Message-
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
[mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] ] On Behalf Of
[EMAIL PROTECTED]
Sent: Tuesday, 30 January 2007 10:19 AM
To: Discussion of issues relating to Soaring in Australia.
Subject: RE: [Aus-soaring] Horsham Week / VIC State Comps

Dave,

The nationals rules don't apply to state competitions - they apply to
national competitions. Makes perfect sense to me. The state based
competitions arent modifying the nationals rules - they have their own.
Good thing too, they are entry level events.

The state based cricket competition doesn't play 5 day test matches.

Regards,
 
Nick Gilbert
Lotus Notes Administrator - Hardy Wines





"David Lawley" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Sent by: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
30/01/2007 10:03 AM
Please respond to
"Discussion of issues relating to Soaring in Australia."



To
"'Discussion of issues relating to Soaring in Australia.'"

cc

Subject 
RE: [Aus-soaring] Horsham Week / VIC State Comps






Hi All,

Whereas I thought I read somewhere that one qualified for a FAI comp
license
in part by entering regional competitions, a bit of a catch 22 this eh? 

No license, no compete, no compete no license! Why am I not surprised!

One thing I have never been able to fathom is how States are allowed to
modify the nationals rules at will, it seems to me they should be decided 
Nationally, and states should not be able to tack on their own extras,
such
as mandatory FLARM without National body approval of a rule change.

It seems crazy to allow this to me, and I can think of no other sport that 
does this sort of thing. National comp rules should be a matter for
national
consideration, not the whim of a state body.

Regards

Dave L.



-Original Message-
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
[mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Robinson,
Peter B
Sent: Tuesday, 30 January 2007 8:43 AM 
To: Discussion of issues relating to Soaring in Australia.
Subject: RE: [Aus-soari

RE: [Aus-soaring] Horsham Week / VIC State Comps

[David Lawley]

Nick said:

 

"Any location for a competition can specify local rules that can, in some
cases, override certain sections of the nationals rules."

 

Yep and that is exactly what seems strange, as I said name any other
National sport that allows state organizers to do this.  

 

A passing comment or two actually doesn't mean a lot of interest in comps
Nick, just an interest in equity of rules.

 

How about addressing the point? (Which I am obviously going to have to
simplify for you) Why are individual states locals be allowed to override
National Championship rules?

 

Regards

 

Dave

 

 

 

  _  

From: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
[mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Nick
Gilbert
Sent: Tuesday, 30 January 2007 12:08 PM
To: Discussion of issues relating to Soaring in Australia.
Subject: Re: [Aus-soaring] Horsham Week / VIC State Comps

 

What you are talking about is states being allowed to apply local rules to a
national contest. Incidently, this (generally speaking) is not a state based
thing. Any location for a competition can specify local rules that can, in
some cases, override certain sections of the nationals rules. 

 

For someone with no interest in competitons you certainly seem to be showing
a lot of interest in competitions.

 

Nick.

 

On 1/30/07, David Lawley <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: 

Huh? Re read my post Nick- I never said that State rules apply to Nationals,
or nationals rules apply to state comps, I said it seemed strange to allow 
states to change the nationals rules or introduce new ones to suit
themselves when THEY run a particular nationals i.e. I believe (correct me
if I am wrong)mandatory FLARM at recent Queensland held nationals was a 
STATE decision not national body decision.(Note: Example only FLARMnatics
need not respond) National comps should be based on Nationally decided rules
not any one states whim.

Of course, each State can have their own comp rules for state comps-but 
logic would seem to dictate using the same rules as national championships
to help people prepare properly for the next level up of comp.

I will try to find the reference to such matters regarding competing at 
regional competitions to qualify for a comp license (could be a US thing).
BTW I have no interest in comps myself, just thought it strange that the
national rules could be changed at the whim of a state that is holding them,

I know of no other sport that allows this, although I am sure Victoria
wouldn't mind changing some footy rules so they could (maybe) win a
premiership again eventually(-:

Regards

Dave L


-Original Message-
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
[mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] ] On Behalf Of
[EMAIL PROTECTED]
Sent: Tuesday, 30 January 2007 10:19 AM
To: Discussion of issues relating to Soaring in Australia.
Subject: RE: [Aus-soaring] Horsham Week / VIC State Comps

Dave,

The nationals rules don't apply to state competitions - they apply to
national competitions. Makes perfect sense to me. The state based
competitions arent modifying the nationals rules - they have their own.
Good thing too, they are entry level events.

The state based cricket competition doesn't play 5 day test matches.

Regards,
 
Nick Gilbert
Lotus Notes Administrator - Hardy Wines





"David Lawley" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Sent by: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
30/01/2007 10:03 AM
Please respond to
"Discussion of issues relating to Soaring in Australia."



To
"'Discussion of issues relating to Soaring in Australia.'"

cc

Subject 
RE: [Aus-soaring] Horsham Week / VIC State Comps






Hi All,

Whereas I thought I read somewhere that one qualified for a FAI comp
license
in part by entering regional competitions, a bit of a catch 22 this eh? 

No license, no compete, no compete no license! Why am I not surprised!

One thing I have never been able to fathom is how States are allowed to
modify the nationals rules at will, it seems to me they should be decided 
Nationally, and states should not be able to tack on their own extras,
such
as mandatory FLARM without National body approval of a rule change.

It seems crazy to allow this to me, and I can think of no other sport that 
does this sort of thing. National comp rules should be a matter for
national
consideration, not the whim of a state body.

Regards

Dave L.



-Original Message-
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
[mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Robinson,
Peter B
Sent: Tuesday, 30 January 2007 8:43 AM 
To: Discussion of issues relating to Soaring in Australia.
Subject: RE: [Aus-soaring] Horsham Week / VIC State Comps

Or if you call the event a Regatta then you don't need Competitors
licenses nor do you require competition insurance. 

-Original Message-
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
[mailto: 
[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Robert
Hart
Sent: Tuesday, 30 January 2007 7:54 AM
To: Discussion of issues relating to Soaring in Australia.
Subject: Re: [Aus-soaring] Horsham Week / VIC State Comps 

David Nugent wrote:
> Rolf,
>
> C

Re: [Aus-soaring] Horsham Week / VIC State Comps

[Nick Gilbert]

What you are talking about is states being allowed to apply local rules to a
national contest. Incidently, this (generally speaking) is not a state based
thing. Any location for a competition can specify local rules that can, in
some cases, override certain sections of the nationals rules.

For someone with no interest in competitons you certainly seem to be showing
a lot of interest in competitions.

Nick.


On 1/30/07, David Lawley <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:


Huh? Re read my post Nick- I never said that State rules apply to
Nationals,
or nationals rules apply to state comps, I said it seemed strange to allow
states to change the nationals rules or introduce new ones to suit
themselves when THEY run a particular nationals i.e. I believe (correct me
if I am wrong)mandatory FLARM at recent Queensland held nationals was a
STATE decision not national body decision.(Note: Example only FLARMnatics
need not respond) National comps should be based on Nationally decided
rules
not any one states whim.

Of course, each State can have their own comp rules for state comps-but
logic would seem to dictate using the same rules as national championships
to help people prepare properly for the next level up of comp.

I will try to find the reference to such matters regarding competing at
regional competitions to qualify for a comp license (could be a US thing).
BTW I have no interest in comps myself, just thought it strange that the
national rules could be changed at the whim of a state that is holding
them,
I know of no other sport that allows this, although I am sure Victoria
wouldn't mind changing some footy rules so they could (maybe) win a
premiership again eventually(-:

Regards

Dave L


-Original Message-
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
[mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of
[EMAIL PROTECTED]
Sent: Tuesday, 30 January 2007 10:19 AM
To: Discussion of issues relating to Soaring in Australia.
Subject: RE: [Aus-soaring] Horsham Week / VIC State Comps

Dave,

The nationals rules don't apply to state competitions - they apply to
national competitions. Makes perfect sense to me. The state based
competitions arent modifying the nationals rules - they have their own.
Good thing too, they are entry level events.

The state based cricket competition doesn't play 5 day test matches.

Regards,

Nick Gilbert
Lotus Notes Administrator - Hardy Wines





"David Lawley" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Sent by: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
30/01/2007 10:03 AM
Please respond to
"Discussion of issues relating to Soaring in Australia."



To
"'Discussion of issues relating to Soaring in Australia.'"

cc

Subject
RE: [Aus-soaring] Horsham Week / VIC State Comps






Hi All,

Whereas I thought I read somewhere that one qualified for a FAI comp
license
in part by entering regional competitions, a bit of a catch 22 this eh?

No license, no compete, no compete no license! Why am I not surprised!

One thing I have never been able to fathom is how States are allowed to
modify the nationals rules at will, it seems to me they should be decided
Nationally, and states should not be able to tack on their own extras,
such
as mandatory FLARM without National body approval of a rule change.

It seems crazy to allow this to me, and I can think of no other sport that
does this sort of thing. National comp rules should be a matter for
national
consideration, not the whim of a state body.

Regards

Dave L.



-Original Message-
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
[mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Robinson,
Peter B
Sent: Tuesday, 30 January 2007 8:43 AM
To: Discussion of issues relating to Soaring in Australia.
Subject: RE: [Aus-soaring] Horsham Week / VIC State Comps

Or if you call the event a Regatta then you don't need Competitors
licenses nor do you require competition insurance.

-Original Message-
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
[mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Robert
Hart
Sent: Tuesday, 30 January 2007 7:54 AM
To: Discussion of issues relating to Soaring in Australia.
Subject: Re: [Aus-soaring] Horsham Week / VIC State Comps

David Nugent wrote:
> Rolf,
>
> Competition licenses have not been required at past Horsham Weeks
> (including when they are a State comp), my understanding is that they
> are only reqd at National level.
It is my understanding that in order to be able to use the GFA
competition insurance cover, all competing pilots must have an FAI
competitor's licence. This is why all competitions in Qld (including the
Easter competition) require competitor's licences.

--
Robert Hart  [EMAIL PROTECTED]
+61 (0)438 385 533
http://www.hart.wattle.id.au


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RE: [Aus-soaring] Horsham Week / VIC State Comps

[David Lawley]

Huh? Re read my post Nick- I never said that State rules apply to Nationals,
or nationals rules apply to state comps, I said it seemed strange to allow
states to change the nationals rules or introduce new ones to suit
themselves when THEY run a particular nationals i.e. I believe (correct me
if I am wrong)mandatory FLARM at recent Queensland held nationals was a
STATE decision not national body decision.(Note: Example only FLARMnatics
need not respond) National comps should be based on Nationally decided rules
not any one states whim. 

Of course, each State can have their own comp rules for state comps-but
logic would seem to dictate using the same rules as national championships
to help people prepare properly for the next level up of comp.

I will try to find the reference to such matters regarding competing at
regional competitions to qualify for a comp license (could be a US thing).
BTW I have no interest in comps myself, just thought it strange that the
national rules could be changed at the whim of a state that is holding them,
I know of no other sport that allows this, although I am sure Victoria
wouldn't mind changing some footy rules so they could (maybe) win a
premiership again eventually(-:

Regards

Dave L


-Original Message-
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
[mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of
[EMAIL PROTECTED]
Sent: Tuesday, 30 January 2007 10:19 AM
To: Discussion of issues relating to Soaring in Australia.
Subject: RE: [Aus-soaring] Horsham Week / VIC State Comps

Dave,

The nationals rules don't apply to state competitions - they apply to 
national competitions. Makes perfect sense to me. The state based 
competitions arent modifying the nationals rules - they have their own. 
Good thing too, they are entry level events.

The state based cricket competition doesn't play 5 day test matches.

Regards,

Nick Gilbert
Lotus Notes Administrator - Hardy Wines





"David Lawley" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> 
Sent by: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
30/01/2007 10:03 AM
Please respond to
"Discussion of issues relating to Soaring in Australia." 



To
"'Discussion of issues relating to Soaring in Australia.'" 

cc

Subject
RE: [Aus-soaring] Horsham Week / VIC State Comps






Hi All,

Whereas I thought I read somewhere that one qualified for a FAI comp 
license
in part by entering regional competitions, a bit of a catch 22 this eh?

 No license, no compete, no compete no license! Why am I not surprised!

One thing I have never been able to fathom is how States are allowed to
modify the nationals rules at will, it seems to me they should be decided
Nationally, and states should not be able to tack on their own extras, 
such
as mandatory FLARM without National body approval of a rule change.

It seems crazy to allow this to me, and I can think of no other sport that
does this sort of thing. National comp rules should be a matter for 
national
consideration, not the whim of a state body.

Regards

Dave L.



-Original Message-
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
[mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Robinson,
Peter B
Sent: Tuesday, 30 January 2007 8:43 AM
To: Discussion of issues relating to Soaring in Australia.
Subject: RE: [Aus-soaring] Horsham Week / VIC State Comps

Or if you call the event a Regatta then you don't need Competitors
licenses nor do you require competition insurance. 

-Original Message-
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
[mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Robert
Hart
Sent: Tuesday, 30 January 2007 7:54 AM
To: Discussion of issues relating to Soaring in Australia.
Subject: Re: [Aus-soaring] Horsham Week / VIC State Comps

David Nugent wrote:
> Rolf,
> 
> Competition licenses have not been required at past Horsham Weeks 
> (including when they are a State comp), my understanding is that they 
> are only reqd at National level.
It is my understanding that in order to be able to use the GFA
competition insurance cover, all competing pilots must have an FAI
competitor's licence. This is why all competitions in Qld (including the
Easter competition) require competitor's licences.

-- 
Robert Hart  [EMAIL PROTECTED]
+61 (0)438 385 533
http://www.hart.wattle.id.au


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Re: [Aus-soaring] Comp licences

[David and Justine Olsen]

That sounds all great but I am the CFI and I don't have a comp  
license and require one. Do I sign my own?





On 30/01/2007, at 10:12 AM, Robinson, Peter B wrote:


It is more than a register,
It is where you club CFI  sign's his life away on the form on your  
behalf.


It sometimes becomes a difficult decision for a CFI to assess  
whether some-one with no comp experience is capable of flying with  
50 plus gliders in a National Comp as compared to 30 odd gliders in  
a State comp. Although to fly at a coaching week with 35 plus  
gliders does not require a Comp license.


From the form
CERTIFICATE OF FLYING EXPERIENCE FOR AIR RACING

I consider that the above named applicant has sufficient flying  
experience to take part in an air race,


record attempt, certified performance or competition.

C.F.I. SIGNATURE..CLUB.


From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:aus- 
[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of [EMAIL PROTECTED]

Sent: Tuesday, 30 January 2007 10:25 AM
To: aus-soaring@lists.internode.on.net
Subject: [Aus-soaring] Comp licences


I got my licence without prior comp experience, no problem. I  
assume it is just a register of who qualifies for the relevant  
insurances.

Beryl was very helpful and supplied my licence at short notice too.

Grant Harper
Check out the new AOL. Most comprehensive set of free safety and  
security tools, free access to millions of high-quality videos from  
across the web, free AOL Mail and more.


The material contained in this email may be confidential,  
privileged or copyrighted. If you are not the intended recipient,  
use, disclosure or copying of this information is prohibited. If  
you have received this document in error, please advise the sender  
and delete the document. Neither OneSteel nor the sender accept  
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attachments.


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RE: [Aus-soaring] Comp licences

[Stuart & Kerri FERGUSON]

Your Club CFI does have to sign the application saying that he/she believes
you are ready for this

level of flying.  You also need two Passport sized photos.

 

SDF 

 

  _  

From: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
[mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of
[EMAIL PROTECTED]
Sent: Tuesday, 30 January 2007 10:55 AM
To: aus-soaring@lists.internode.on.net
Subject: [Aus-soaring] Comp licences 

 

 

I got my licence without prior comp experience, no problem. I assume it is
just a register of who qualifies for the relevant insurances.

Beryl was very helpful and supplied my licence at short notice too.

 

Grant Harper

  _  

 
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comprehensive set of free safety and security tools, free access to millions
of high-quality videos from across the web, free AOL Mail and more.

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RE: [Aus-soaring] Comp licences

[Robinson, Peter B]

It is more than a register,
It is where you club CFI  sign's his life away on the form on your
behalf. 
 
It sometimes becomes a difficult decision for a CFI to assess whether
some-one with no comp experience is capable of flying with 50 plus
gliders in a National Comp as compared to 30 odd gliders in a State
comp. Although to fly at a coaching week with 35 plus gliders does not
require a Comp license.
 
From the form
CERTIFICATE OF FLYING EXPERIENCE FOR AIR RACING

I consider that the above named applicant has sufficient flying
experience to take part in an air race,

record attempt, certified performance or competition.

C.F.I.
SIGNATURE..CLUB.





From: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
[mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of
[EMAIL PROTECTED]
Sent: Tuesday, 30 January 2007 10:25 AM
To: aus-soaring@lists.internode.on.net
Subject: [Aus-soaring] Comp licences 


 
I got my licence without prior comp experience, no problem. I assume it
is just a register of who qualifies for the relevant insurances.
Beryl was very helpful and supplied my licence at short notice too.
 
Grant Harper


Check out the new AOL
 . Most comprehensive set of
free safety and security tools, free access to millions of high-quality
videos from across the web, free AOL Mail and more.



The material contained in this email may be confidential, privileged or 
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RE: [Aus-soaring] Horsham Week / VIC State Comps - FAI Comp Licence.

[Stuart & Kerri FERGUSON]

>From my experience you just apply for the licence (fill out an application
form, pay your money and your licence is in the mail renewable every two
years. Details on how to apply were on the GFA web site last time I checked.


Degree of difficulty 1

SDF   


-Original Message-
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
[mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of David
Lawley
Sent: Tuesday, 30 January 2007 10:34 AM
To: 'Discussion of issues relating to Soaring in Australia.'
Subject: RE: [Aus-soaring] Horsham Week / VIC State Comps

Hi All,

Whereas I thought I read somewhere that one qualified for a FAI comp license
in part by entering regional competitions, a bit of a catch 22 this eh?

 No license, no compete, no compete no license! Why am I not surprised!

One thing I have never been able to fathom is how States are allowed to
modify the nationals rules at will, it seems to me they should be decided
Nationally, and states should not be able to tack on their own extras, such
as mandatory FLARM without National body approval of a rule change.

It seems crazy to allow this to me, and I can think of no other sport that
does this sort of thing. National comp rules should be a matter for national
consideration, not the whim of a state body.

Regards

Dave L.



-Original Message-
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
[mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Robinson,
Peter B
Sent: Tuesday, 30 January 2007 8:43 AM
To: Discussion of issues relating to Soaring in Australia.
Subject: RE: [Aus-soaring] Horsham Week / VIC State Comps

Or if you call the event a Regatta then you don't need Competitors
licenses nor do you require competition insurance. 

-Original Message-
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
[mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Robert
Hart
Sent: Tuesday, 30 January 2007 7:54 AM
To: Discussion of issues relating to Soaring in Australia.
Subject: Re: [Aus-soaring] Horsham Week / VIC State Comps

David Nugent wrote:
> Rolf,
>  
> Competition licenses have not been required at past Horsham Weeks 
> (including when they are a State comp), my understanding is that they 
> are only reqd at National level.
It is my understanding that in order to be able to use the GFA
competition insurance cover, all competing pilots must have an FAI
competitor's licence. This is why all competitions in Qld (including the
Easter competition) require competitor's licences.

-- 
Robert Hart  [EMAIL PROTECTED]
+61 (0)438 385 533
http://www.hart.wattle.id.au


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RE: [Aus-soaring] Horsham Week / VIC State Comps

[Nicholas . Gilbert]

Further to this, the rules for both nationals and state competitions are 
largely formulated by the attendees themselves at Pilot's Meetings. The 
wishes of a body of pilots attending a National Competition may not be the 
same as the pilots attending a State Competition.

Regards,

Nick Gilbert
Lotus Notes Administrator - Hardy Wines





[EMAIL PROTECTED] 
Sent by: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
30/01/2007 10:19 AM
Please respond to
"Discussion of issues relating to Soaring in Australia." 



To
"Discussion of issues relating to Soaring in Australia." 

cc

Subject
RE: [Aus-soaring] Horsham Week / VIC State Comps






Dave,

The nationals rules don't apply to state competitions - they apply to 
national competitions. Makes perfect sense to me. The state based 
competitions arent modifying the nationals rules - they have their own. 
Good thing too, they are entry level events.

The state based cricket competition doesn't play 5 day test matches.

Regards,

Nick Gilbert
Lotus Notes Administrator - Hardy Wines





"David Lawley" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> 
Sent by: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
30/01/2007 10:03 AM
Please respond to
"Discussion of issues relating to Soaring in Australia." 



To
"'Discussion of issues relating to Soaring in Australia.'" 

cc

Subject
RE: [Aus-soaring] Horsham Week / VIC State Comps






Hi All,

Whereas I thought I read somewhere that one qualified for a FAI comp 
license
in part by entering regional competitions, a bit of a catch 22 this eh?

 No license, no compete, no compete no license! Why am I not surprised!

One thing I have never been able to fathom is how States are allowed to
modify the nationals rules at will, it seems to me they should be decided
Nationally, and states should not be able to tack on their own extras, 
such
as mandatory FLARM without National body approval of a rule change.

It seems crazy to allow this to me, and I can think of no other sport that
does this sort of thing. National comp rules should be a matter for 
national
consideration, not the whim of a state body.

Regards

Dave L.



-Original Message-
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
[mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Robinson,
Peter B
Sent: Tuesday, 30 January 2007 8:43 AM
To: Discussion of issues relating to Soaring in Australia.
Subject: RE: [Aus-soaring] Horsham Week / VIC State Comps

Or if you call the event a Regatta then you don't need Competitors
licenses nor do you require competition insurance. 

-Original Message-
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
[mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Robert
Hart
Sent: Tuesday, 30 January 2007 7:54 AM
To: Discussion of issues relating to Soaring in Australia.
Subject: Re: [Aus-soaring] Horsham Week / VIC State Comps

David Nugent wrote:
> Rolf,
> 
> Competition licenses have not been required at past Horsham Weeks 
> (including when they are a State comp), my understanding is that they 
> are only reqd at National level.
It is my understanding that in order to be able to use the GFA
competition insurance cover, all competing pilots must have an FAI
competitor's licence. This is why all competitions in Qld (including the
Easter competition) require competitor's licences.

-- 
Robert Hart  [EMAIL PROTECTED]
+61 (0)438 385 533
http://www.hart.wattle.id.au


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[Aus-soaring] Comp licences

[vhgnj]

 
I got my licence without prior comp experience, no problem. I assume it is just 
a register of who qualifies for the relevant insurances.
Beryl was very helpful and supplied my licence at short notice too.
 
Grant Harper

Check out the new AOL.  Most comprehensive set of free safety and security 
tools, free access to millions of high-quality videos from across the web, free 
AOL Mail and more.
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RE: [Aus-soaring] Horsham Week / VIC State Comps

[Nicholas . Gilbert]

Dave,

The nationals rules don't apply to state competitions - they apply to 
national competitions. Makes perfect sense to me. The state based 
competitions arent modifying the nationals rules - they have their own. 
Good thing too, they are entry level events.

The state based cricket competition doesn't play 5 day test matches.

Regards,

Nick Gilbert
Lotus Notes Administrator - Hardy Wines





"David Lawley" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> 
Sent by: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
30/01/2007 10:03 AM
Please respond to
"Discussion of issues relating to Soaring in Australia." 



To
"'Discussion of issues relating to Soaring in Australia.'" 

cc

Subject
RE: [Aus-soaring] Horsham Week / VIC State Comps






Hi All,

Whereas I thought I read somewhere that one qualified for a FAI comp 
license
in part by entering regional competitions, a bit of a catch 22 this eh?

 No license, no compete, no compete no license! Why am I not surprised!

One thing I have never been able to fathom is how States are allowed to
modify the nationals rules at will, it seems to me they should be decided
Nationally, and states should not be able to tack on their own extras, 
such
as mandatory FLARM without National body approval of a rule change.

It seems crazy to allow this to me, and I can think of no other sport that
does this sort of thing. National comp rules should be a matter for 
national
consideration, not the whim of a state body.

Regards

Dave L.



-Original Message-
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
[mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Robinson,
Peter B
Sent: Tuesday, 30 January 2007 8:43 AM
To: Discussion of issues relating to Soaring in Australia.
Subject: RE: [Aus-soaring] Horsham Week / VIC State Comps

Or if you call the event a Regatta then you don't need Competitors
licenses nor do you require competition insurance. 

-Original Message-
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
[mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Robert
Hart
Sent: Tuesday, 30 January 2007 7:54 AM
To: Discussion of issues relating to Soaring in Australia.
Subject: Re: [Aus-soaring] Horsham Week / VIC State Comps

David Nugent wrote:
> Rolf,
> 
> Competition licenses have not been required at past Horsham Weeks 
> (including when they are a State comp), my understanding is that they 
> are only reqd at National level.
It is my understanding that in order to be able to use the GFA
competition insurance cover, all competing pilots must have an FAI
competitor's licence. This is why all competitions in Qld (including the
Easter competition) require competitor's licences.

-- 
Robert Hart  [EMAIL PROTECTED]
+61 (0)438 385 533
http://www.hart.wattle.id.au


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RE: [Aus-soaring] Horsham Week / VIC State Comps

[David Lawley]

Hi All,

Whereas I thought I read somewhere that one qualified for a FAI comp license
in part by entering regional competitions, a bit of a catch 22 this eh?

 No license, no compete, no compete no license! Why am I not surprised!

One thing I have never been able to fathom is how States are allowed to
modify the nationals rules at will, it seems to me they should be decided
Nationally, and states should not be able to tack on their own extras, such
as mandatory FLARM without National body approval of a rule change.

It seems crazy to allow this to me, and I can think of no other sport that
does this sort of thing. National comp rules should be a matter for national
consideration, not the whim of a state body.

Regards

Dave L.



-Original Message-
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
[mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Robinson,
Peter B
Sent: Tuesday, 30 January 2007 8:43 AM
To: Discussion of issues relating to Soaring in Australia.
Subject: RE: [Aus-soaring] Horsham Week / VIC State Comps

Or if you call the event a Regatta then you don't need Competitors
licenses nor do you require competition insurance. 

-Original Message-
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
[mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Robert
Hart
Sent: Tuesday, 30 January 2007 7:54 AM
To: Discussion of issues relating to Soaring in Australia.
Subject: Re: [Aus-soaring] Horsham Week / VIC State Comps

David Nugent wrote:
> Rolf,
>  
> Competition licenses have not been required at past Horsham Weeks 
> (including when they are a State comp), my understanding is that they 
> are only reqd at National level.
It is my understanding that in order to be able to use the GFA
competition insurance cover, all competing pilots must have an FAI
competitor's licence. This is why all competitions in Qld (including the
Easter competition) require competitor's licences.

-- 
Robert Hart  [EMAIL PROTECTED]
+61 (0)438 385 533
http://www.hart.wattle.id.au


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RE: [Aus-soaring] Horsham Week / VIC State Comps

[plchampness]

Does that mean that a competeition licence is not required for Horsham week (as 
in previous years?

Peter Champness


 "Robinson wrote: 
> Or if you call the event a Regatta then you don't need Competitors
> licenses nor do you require competition insurance. 
> 
> -Original Message-
> From: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
> [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Robert
> Hart
> Sent: Tuesday, 30 January 2007 7:54 AM
> To: Discussion of issues relating to Soaring in Australia.
> Subject: Re: [Aus-soaring] Horsham Week / VIC State Comps
> 
> David Nugent wrote:
> > Rolf,
> >  
> > Competition licenses have not been required at past Horsham Weeks 
> > (including when they are a State comp), my understanding is that they 
> > are only reqd at National level.
> It is my understanding that in order to be able to use the GFA
> competition insurance cover, all competing pilots must have an FAI
> competitor's licence. This is why all competitions in Qld (including the
> Easter competition) require competitor's licences.
> 
> -- 
> Robert Hart  [EMAIL PROTECTED]
> +61 (0)438 385 533
> http://www.hart.wattle.id.au
> 
> 
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[Aus-soaring] FAI Competition Licence

[Stuart & Kerri FERGUSON]

Is one required for the OLC ?

SDF

-Original Message-
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
[mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Robert Hart
Sent: Tuesday, 30 January 2007 8:24 AM
To: Discussion of issues relating to Soaring in Australia.
Subject: Re: [Aus-soaring] Horsham Week / VIC State Comps

David Nugent wrote:
> Rolf,
>  
> Competition licenses have not been required at past Horsham Weeks 
> (including when they are a State comp), my understanding is that they 
> are only reqd at National level.
It is my understanding that in order to be able to use the GFA 
competition insurance cover, all competing pilots must have an FAI 
competitor's licence. This is why all competitions in Qld (including the 
Easter competition) require competitor's licences.

-- 
Robert Hart  [EMAIL PROTECTED]
+61 (0)438 385 533   http://www.hart.wattle.id.au


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RE: [Aus-soaring] Horsham Week / VIC State Comps

[Robinson, Peter B]

Or if you call the event a Regatta then you don't need Competitors
licenses nor do you require competition insurance. 

-Original Message-
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
[mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Robert
Hart
Sent: Tuesday, 30 January 2007 7:54 AM
To: Discussion of issues relating to Soaring in Australia.
Subject: Re: [Aus-soaring] Horsham Week / VIC State Comps

David Nugent wrote:
> Rolf,
>  
> Competition licenses have not been required at past Horsham Weeks 
> (including when they are a State comp), my understanding is that they 
> are only reqd at National level.
It is my understanding that in order to be able to use the GFA
competition insurance cover, all competing pilots must have an FAI
competitor's licence. This is why all competitions in Qld (including the
Easter competition) require competitor's licences.

-- 
Robert Hart  [EMAIL PROTECTED]
+61 (0)438 385 533
http://www.hart.wattle.id.au


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The material contained in this email may be confidential, privileged or 
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of this information is prohibited. If you have received this document in error, 
please advise the sender and delete the document. Neither OneSteel nor the 
sender accept responsibility for any viruses contained in this email or any 
attachments.

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Re: [Aus-soaring] Horsham Week / VIC State Comps

[Robert Hart]

David Nugent wrote:

Rolf,
 
Competition licenses have not been required at past Horsham Weeks 
(including when they are a State comp), my understanding is that they 
are only reqd at National level.
It is my understanding that in order to be able to use the GFA 
competition insurance cover, all competing pilots must have an FAI 
competitor's licence. This is why all competitions in Qld (including the 
Easter competition) require competitor's licences.


--
Robert Hart  [EMAIL PROTECTED]
+61 (0)438 385 533   http://www.hart.wattle.id.au


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Re: [Aus-soaring] From Harry Medlicott

[Ian McPhee]

Harry
Todd was at a industry meeting recently representing one of the airlines he is 
with (this time LAME/commuter hat) and the topic of FLARM came up and was 
mention with the use of FLARM, that gliding has the jump on GA and commuters on 
short range collision avoidance .  He is worth a talk and I know he recently 
got one for his LS4 and he has never used one.  He is worth a 
talkIan M 
  - Original Message - 
  From: Anne Elliott 
  To: 'Discussion of issues relating to Soaring in Australia.' 
  Sent: Saturday, January 27, 2007 9:00 PM
  Subject: [Aus-soaring] From Harry Medlicott


  Harry is in Nrm at the moment. Whilst he is able to receive emails he is not 
able to send. He has asked me to send the following message:

  Hi All,.

  I have not been particularly interested in the online debate about the merits 
or otherwise of Flarms. What has prompted this reply was yet another extremely 
close near miss at Narromine a couple of days ago in which a pilot on early 
final was suddenly confronted by a glider crossing his path and an accident was 
only avoided by him taking instant and violent avoiding action. It would be 
easy to say they 
  should have seen each other, but how regularly do you scan to the side when 
  on final? Also two tugs came within a metre or two of hitting each other 
  just prior to the NSW State comps and again evasive action was used. A second 
near miss involving tugs happened more recently. Statistically, if you have 
near misses then sooner or later a mid air with the strong possibility of a 
tragedy is inevitable 


  Please consider:-

  There are now over 5,000 Flarms installed in European gliders, including 
  those flying over flatlands. Many clubs have made them mandatory. Surely 
  about as great a vote of confidence as one could wish for.

  No matter how good your lookout, no more than half of the airspace 
  surrounding a glider can be seen. A threat can come from any direction. Flarm 
  continuously scans the 360 deg. of airspace around you for several 
  kilometres, and above and below you. Provided ALL gliders and tugs are 
  fitted with Flarms, this must be an added safety factor

  Australia's best pilots have told me that their lookout virtually becomes non 
  existent under certain circumstances, particularly when trying to centre or 
  work hard lift or very low.

  Pilots who have used Flarms regularly say they do not become complacent 
  about look out, on the contrary they say it sometimes gives them a wakeup 
  call to smarten up their lookout.

  It is a physical impossibility to continue a regular, continuous scan on a 
long flight 
  and even if you did the major threat is usually in front of you and looking 
  away from your direction of travel while conducting a scan, carefully 
  searching the surrounding airspace as suggested by various authorities, 
  means you are not looking where you are going for quite a while.

  The "radar" display which shows your glider in the center and the exact 
  position and relative altitude of nearby gliders is a considerable 
  enhancement. Nigel Andrews is developing a comparatively low cost Flarm add 
  on to fit a 57mm hole or sit on top of the panel which as well as giving 
basic navigational information, displays the "radar" screen whenever a flarm 
  equipped aircraft comes into range. I find it a great improvement on the 
  standard flarm display. It is very useful knowing the distance separating 
  you from another glider, also their precise track in relation to your 
  glider. How can anyone argue against having this knowledge, which requires 
  all nearby aircraft to be fitted with the equipment? When S type 
  transponders become widespread in Australia, Nigel has plans for an add on 
  receiver which will pick up S type transmissions and show the position of 
  equipped aircraft on the Flarm display.

  My own accident as well as others I have studied, shows that Flarm would 
  have almost certainly saved accidents. In my case, the data logger traces 
  show I was being followed by another glider a few hundred meters behind, 
  slightly to my left and a little higher. No scan before a turn could have 
  seen him. Would I have started a thermalling turn to the left if Flarm had 
  alerted me to the other gliders presence? Never! Shortly before the 
  collision I saw the other glider on my extreme right in what appeared to be 
  a collision course, so my lookout wasn't all that bad , but I could not 
  avoid him and the other glider hit my wing from behind.The other pilots 
  statement said he did not see me until the instant of the accident. He also 
  said he had been looking at another glider ahead and above. Very common for 
  a pilot to be studying the situation ahead, perhaps other gliders or deciding 
on the most favourable clouds. We all do it. I am not trying to be critical of 
the other pilot. Without doubt both Flarms would have given continuous position 
advice additio

Re: [Aus-soaring] Horsham Week / VIC State Comps

[David Nugent]

Rolf,

Competition licenses have not been required at past Horsham Weeks (including 
when they are a State comp), my understanding is that they are only reqd at 
National level.

Regards

Dave WQS


- Original Message - 
  From: rolf a. buelter 
  To: Discussion of issues relating to Soaring in Australia. 
  Sent: Friday, January 26, 2007 9:59 AM
  Subject: [Aus-soaring] Horsham Week / VIC State Comps


  Dear All
  Horsham Week in combination with the Victorian State Competition is on from 
Saturday February 3rd to Saturday February 10th. I would like to remind all 
pilots planning on coming to have the required documents, e.g. comp license, 
third party insurance, etc. available at registration.
  Best Regards
  Rolf A. Buelter
  Comps Director


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