Re: [AZORES-Genealogy] Please help with Perpetua Rosa again
Victorina's parents were João de Sousa de Freitas and Isabel de Jesus Marcio Borba Feel the Azores... visit http://azorean-roots.blogspot.com --- Em dom, 21/10/12, Diane ddon...@bigpond.net.au escreveu: De: Diane ddon...@bigpond.net.au Assunto: Re: [AZORES-Genealogy] Please help with Perpetua Rosa again Para: azores@googlegroups.com Data: Domingo, 21 de Outubro de 2012, 7:10 Thanks Rick. Well there goes that theory. I had looked at that record and not picked up the names. I have macular degeneration in one eye and floaters in both so somethimes I get a bit cross-eyed trying to read them. Please can you decipher the names of Victorina's parents? There seems to be a Joann...His parents are on the first marriage record as Manuel de Sousa Machado (or Mancebo) and Francisco Josefa. Pity about the quality of this record. RegardsDiane DonnonSouth Australia On Sunday, 21 October 2012 13:49:42 UTC+10:30, Azoreanno wrote:Manuel de Sousa Mancebo married first to Perpetua Rosa November 26 1815. Manuel married second to Vitorina Rosa Jan 19 1818, record here http://culturacores. azores.gov.pt/biblioteca_ digital/SJR-VL-URZELINA-C- 1780-1843/SJR-VL-URZELINA-C- 1780-1843_item1/P114.html They werent sisters Marcio Borba Feel the Azores... visit http://azorean-roots.blogspot. com --- Em sáb, 20/10/12, Diane ddo...@bigpond.net.au escreveu: De: Diane ddo...@bigpond.net.au Assunto: Re: [AZORES-Genealogy] Please help with Perpetua Rosa again Para: azo...@googlegroups.com Data: Sábado, 20 de Outubro de 2012, 8:58 Hi Marcio thank you for the info. There is a bit of confusion about the generations here but I believe I am on the right track. My GGGrandfather Christiano Machado Pereira married twice - 2 sisters Victorina Rosa and Perpetua Rosa (b 1825 and 1828).The parents of the two sisters were Manuel de Sousa Machado and Vitorina de Jesus as per the marriage records. I have been searching for the marriage of Manuel and Victorina (the elder) prior to 1825 when Victorina (the younger) was born. and that's when I came across the marriage of Perpetua Rosa and Manuel de Sousa Machado in 1816 - as per the link. I figured this is too much of a co-incidence and now believe that randfather Manuel de Sousa Machado also married two sisters Perpetua Rosa and Victorina Rosa. Those female names are not all that common in the records. I haven't found the marriage (2nd marriage) of Manuel and Victorina (1) as yet but the same set of parents would confirm that they are also sisters. Does that make sense?? It's very exciting. thank you to Pam too. Diane DonnonSouth Australia On Saturday, 20 October 2012 14:00:00 UTC+10:30, Azoreanno wrote:i believe these are not your people since you are looking for the marriage of a Manuel de Sousa Mancebo and Victorina Rosa right?. The link is to a marriage between a Manuel de Sousa Machado and a Perpetua Rosa. Marcio Borba Feel the Azores... visit http://azorean-roots.blogspot. com --- Em sáb, 20/10/12, Diane ddo...@bigpond.net.au escreveu: De: Diane ddo...@bigpond.net.au Assunto: [AZORES-Genealogy] Please help with Perpetua Rosa again Para: azo...@googlegroups.com Data: Sábado, 20 de Outubro de 2012, 3:46 I have found a marriage record where the name Perpetua Rosa occurs with I think her parents mentioned. It is a long record and I am a bit confused as who are the bride and groom and who all the others might be. There is Manoel de Sousa Machado who was one of the same family. The marriage appears to have occurred 6 June 1815 and there is a notation in the column which looks like Perpetua is mentioned there. My query is mainly if anyone can say whether those people are the parents of Perpetua Rosa? and is she the bride? Thanks for any help. I am gradually learning the reading but some are harder than others - as you all well know. http://culturacores.azores. gov.pt/biblioteca_digital/SJR- VL-URZELINA-C-1780-1843/SJR- VL-URZELINA-C-1780-1843_item1/ P101.html Diane DonnonSouth Australia -- To unsubscribe from this group, send email to Azores+un...@ googlegroups.com. Follow the confirmation directions when they arrive. For more options, such as changing to List, Digest, Abridged, or No Mail (vacation) mode, log into your Google account and visit this group at http://groups.google.com/ group/Azores. Click in the blue area on the right that says Join this group and it will take you to Edit my membership. -- To unsubscribe from this group, send email to Azores+un...@ googlegroups.com. Follow the confirmation directions when they arrive. For more options, such as changing to List, Digest, Abridged, or No Mail (vacation) mode, log into your Google account and visit this group at http://groups.google.com/ group/Azores. Click in the blue area on the right that says Join this group and it will take you to Edit my membership. -- To unsubscribe from this group, send email to azores+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com. Follow
Re: [AZORES-Genealogy] Please help with Perpetua Rosa again
Back then It was normal for the same person to show diferent last names in diferent records. In this case Mancebo usually means son of another of the same name which is the case. Manuel de Sousa Mancebo son of Manuel de Sousa Machado. I bet there are records of your Manuel de Sousa MAncebo as Manuel de Sousa Machado. As for life style I would start with an online research Marcio Borba Feel the Azores... visit http://azorean-roots.blogspot.com --- Em dom, 21/10/12, Diane ddon...@bigpond.net.au escreveu: De: Diane ddon...@bigpond.net.au Assunto: Re: [AZORES-Genealogy] Please help with Perpetua Rosa again Para: azores@googlegroups.com Data: Domingo, 21 de Outubro de 2012, 10:47 Thank you MarcioI am happy that you have been able to read those names for me. Do you think the surname of Manuel and his father is definitely Mancebo and not Machado? Can you tell me the best way of going about doing some research about the lifestyles of the people of Sao Jorge in those times? It would need to be in English.Now that I have so many more ancestors I would like to know more about the way they lived. RegardsDiane DonnonSouth Australia On Sunday, 21 October 2012 18:48:48 UTC+10:30, Azoreanno wrote:Victorina's parents were João de Sousa de Freitas and Isabel de Jesus Marcio Borba Feel the Azores... visit http://azorean-roots.blogspot. com --- Em dom, 21/10/12, Diane ddo...@bigpond.net.au escreveu: De: Diane ddo...@bigpond.net.au Assunto: Re: [AZORES-Genealogy] Please help with Perpetua Rosa again Para: azo...@googlegroups.com Data: Domingo, 21 de Outubro de 2012, 7:10 Thanks Rick. Well there goes that theory. I had looked at that record and not picked up the names. I have macular degeneration in one eye and floaters in both so somethimes I get a bit cross-eyed trying to read them. Please can you decipher the names of Victorina's parents? There seems to be a Joann...His parents are on the first marriage record as Manuel de Sousa Machado (or Mancebo) and Francisco Josefa. Pity about the quality of this record. RegardsDiane DonnonSouth Australia On Sunday, 21 October 2012 13:49:42 UTC+10:30, Azoreanno wrote:Manuel de Sousa Mancebo married first to Perpetua Rosa November 26 1815. Manuel married second to Vitorina Rosa Jan 19 1818, record here http://culturacores. azores.gov.pt/biblioteca_ digital/SJR-VL-URZELINA-C- 1780-1843/SJR-VL-URZELINA-C- 1780-1843_item1/P114.html They werent sisters Marcio Borba Feel the Azores... visit http://azorean-roots.blogspot. com --- Em sáb, 20/10/12, Diane ddo...@bigpond.net.au escreveu: De: Diane ddo...@bigpond.net.au Assunto: Re: [AZORES-Genealogy] Please help with Perpetua Rosa again Para: azo...@googlegroups.com Data: Sábado, 20 de Outubro de 2012, 8:58 Hi Marcio thank you for the info. There is a bit of confusion about the generations here but I believe I am on the right track. My GGGrandfather Christiano Machado Pereira married twice - 2 sisters Victorina Rosa and Perpetua Rosa (b 1825 and 1828).The parents of the two sisters were Manuel de Sousa Machado and Vitorina de Jesus as per the marriage records. I have been searching for the marriage of Manuel and Victorina (the elder) prior to 1825 when Victorina (the younger) was born. and that's when I came across the marriage of Perpetua Rosa and Manuel de Sousa Machado in 1816 - as per the link. I figured this is too much of a co-incidence and now believe that randfather Manuel de Sousa Machado also married two sisters Perpetua Rosa and Victorina Rosa. Those female names are not all that common in the records. I haven't found the marriage (2nd marriage) of Manuel and Victorina (1) as yet but the same set of parents would confirm that they are also sisters. Does that make sense?? It's very exciting. thank you to Pam too. Diane DonnonSouth Australia On Saturday, 20 October 2012 14:00:00 UTC+10:30, Azoreanno wrote:i believe these are not your people since you are looking for the marriage of a Manuel de Sousa Mancebo and Victorina Rosa right?. The link is to a marriage between a Manuel de Sousa Machado and a Perpetua Rosa. Marcio Borba Feel the Azores... visit http://azorean-roots.blogspot. com --- Em sáb, 20/10/12, Diane ddo...@bigpond.net.au escreveu: De: Diane ddo...@bigpond.net.au Assunto: [AZORES-Genealogy] Please help with Perpetua Rosa again Para: azo...@googlegroups.com Data: Sábado, 20 de Outubro de 2012, 3:46 I have found a marriage record where the name Perpetua Rosa occurs with I think her parents mentioned. It is a long record and I am a bit confused as who are the bride and groom and who all the others might be. There is Manoel de Sousa Machado who was one of the same family. The marriage appears to have occurred 6 June 1815 and there is a notation in the column which looks like Perpetua is mentioned there. My query is mainly if anyone can say whether those people are the parents of Perpetua Rosa? and is she the bride? Thanks for any help. I am
Re: [AZORES-Genealogy] Please help with Perpetua Rosa again
Sorry to interject myself into your conversations but I wanted to warn you about an assumption that could be dangerous. Mancebo does not always imply one person is the son of another. It actually means the younger and I have seen it used when it was a nephew (as with my own grandfather) and even with a young girl who carried the same name as another relative. It has caused others to confuse it with the title Junior. Again, I apologize for butting into your conversation and hope I've not caused any offense. Gayle On Oct 21, 2012, at 1:57 AM, Marcio Borba marcioborba_ge...@yahoo.com wrote: Back then It was normal for the same person to show diferent last names in diferent records. In this case Mancebo usually means son of another of the same name which is the case. Manuel de Sousa Mancebo son of Manuel de Sousa Machado. I bet there are records of your Manuel de Sousa MAncebo as Manuel de Sousa Machado. As for life style I would start with an online research Marcio Borba Feel the Azores... visit http://azorean-roots.blogspot.com --- Em dom, 21/10/12, Diane ddon...@bigpond.net.au escreveu: De: Diane ddon...@bigpond.net.au Assunto: Re: [AZORES-Genealogy] Please help with Perpetua Rosa again Para: azores@googlegroups.com Data: Domingo, 21 de Outubro de 2012, 10:47 Thank you Marcio I am happy that you have been able to read those names for me. Do you think the surname of Manuel and his father is definitely Mancebo and not Machado? Can you tell me the best way of going about doing some research about the lifestyles of the people of Sao Jorge in those times? It would need to be in English.Now that I have so many more ancestors I would like to know more about the way they lived. Regards Diane Donnon South Australia On Sunday, 21 October 2012 18:48:48 UTC+10:30, Azoreanno wrote: Victorina's parents were João de Sousa de Freitas and Isabel de Jesus Marcio Borba Feel the Azores... visit http://azorean-roots.blogspot. com --- Em dom, 21/10/12, Diane ddo...@bigpond.net.au escreveu: De: Diane ddo...@bigpond.net.au Assunto: Re: [AZORES-Genealogy] Please help with Perpetua Rosa again Para: azo...@googlegroups.com Data: Domingo, 21 de Outubro de 2012, 7:10 Thanks Rick. Well there goes that theory. I had looked at that record and not picked up the names. I have macular degeneration in one eye and floaters in both so somethimes I get a bit cross-eyed trying to read them. Please can you decipher the names of Victorina's parents? There seems to be a Joann... His parents are on the first marriage record as Manuel de Sousa Machado (or Mancebo) and Francisco Josefa. Pity about the quality of this record. Regards Diane Donnon South Australia On Sunday, 21 October 2012 13:49:42 UTC+10:30, Azoreanno wrote: Manuel de Sousa Mancebo married first to Perpetua Rosa November 26 1815. Manuel married second to Vitorina Rosa Jan 19 1818, record here http://culturacores. azores.gov.pt/biblioteca_ digital/SJR-VL-URZELINA-C- 1780-1843/SJR-VL-URZELINA-C- 1780-1843_item1/P114.html They werent sisters Marcio Borba Feel the Azores... visit http://azorean-roots.blogspot. com --- Em sáb, 20/10/12, Diane ddo...@bigpond.net.au escreveu: De: Diane ddo...@bigpond.net.au Assunto: Re: [AZORES-Genealogy] Please help with Perpetua Rosa again Para: azo...@googlegroups.com Data: Sábado, 20 de Outubro de 2012, 8:58 Hi Marcio thank you for the info. There is a bit of confusion about the generations here but I believe I am on the right track. My GGGrandfather Christiano Machado Pereira married twice - 2 sisters Victorina Rosa and Perpetua Rosa (b 1825 and 1828). The parents of the two sisters were Manuel de Sousa Machado and Vitorina de Jesus as per the marriage records. I have been searching for the marriage of Manuel and Victorina (the elder) prior to 1825 when Victorina (the younger) was born. and that's when I came across the marriage of Perpetua Rosa and Manuel de Sousa Machado in 1816 - as per the link. I figured this is too much of a co-incidence and now believe that randfather Manuel de Sousa Machado also married two sisters Perpetua Rosa and Victorina Rosa. Those female names are not all that common in the records. I haven't found the marriage (2nd marriage) of Manuel and Victorina (1) as yet but the same set of parents would confirm that they are also sisters. Does that make sense?? It's very exciting. thank you to Pam too. Diane Donnon South Australia On Saturday, 20 October 2012 14:00:00 UTC+10:30, Azoreanno wrote: i believe these are not your people since you are looking for the marriage of a Manuel de Sousa Mancebo and Victorina Rosa right?. The link is to a marriage between a Manuel de Sousa Machado and a Perpetua Rosa. Marcio Borba Feel the Azores... visit http://azorean-roots.blogspot. com --- Em sáb, 20/10/12, Diane ddo
Re: [AZORES-Genealogy] Please help with Perpetua Rosa again
Hi Gayle You did not butt in at all. I am collecting as much information as I can at this stage and learning every day. Thank you. Thanks to Marcio too for all his help. Diane On Monday, 22 October 2012 03:55:02 UTC+10:30, good...@aol.com wrote: Sorry to interject myself into your conversations but I wanted to warn you about an assumption that could be dangerous. Mancebo does not always imply one person is the son of another. It actually means the younger and I have seen it used when it was a nephew (as with my own grandfather) and even with a young girl who carried the same name as another relative. It has caused others to confuse it with the title Junior. Again, I apologize for butting into your conversation and hope I've not caused any offense. Gayle On Oct 21, 2012, at 1:57 AM, Marcio Borba marciobo...@yahoo.comjavascript: wrote: Back then It was normal for the same person to show diferent last names in diferent records. In this case Mancebo usually means son of another of the same name which is the case. Manuel de Sousa Mancebo son of Manuel de Sousa Machado. I bet there are records of your Manuel de Sousa MAncebo as Manuel de Sousa Machado. As for life style I would start with an online research Marcio Borba Feel the Azores... visit http://azorean-roots.blogspot.com --- Em *dom, 21/10/12, Diane ddo...@bigpond.net.au javascript:*escreveu: De: Diane ddo...@bigpond.net.au javascript: Assunto: Re: [AZORES-Genealogy] Please help with Perpetua Rosa again Para: azo...@googlegroups.com javascript: Data: Domingo, 21 de Outubro de 2012, 10:47 Thank you Marcio I am happy that you have been able to read those names for me. Do you think the surname of Manuel and his father is definitely Mancebo and not Machado? Can you tell me the best way of going about doing some research about the lifestyles of the people of Sao Jorge in those times? It would need to be in English.Now that I have so many more ancestors I would like to know more about the way they lived. Regards Diane Donnon South Australia On Sunday, 21 October 2012 18:48:48 UTC+10:30, Azoreanno wrote: Victorina's parents were João de Sousa de Freitas and Isabel de Jesus Marcio Borba Feel the Azores... visit http://azorean-roots.blogspot. com --- Em *dom, 21/10/12, Diane ddo...@bigpond.net.au* escreveu: De: Diane ddo...@bigpond.net.au Assunto: Re: [AZORES-Genealogy] Please help with Perpetua Rosa again Para: azo...@googlegroups.com Data: Domingo, 21 de Outubro de 2012, 7:10 Thanks Rick. Well there goes that theory. I had looked at that record and not picked up the names. I have macular degeneration in one eye and floaters in both so somethimes I get a bit cross-eyed trying to read them. Please can you decipher the names of Victorina's parents? There seems to be a Joann... His parents are on the first marriage record as Manuel de Sousa Machado (or Mancebo) and Francisco Josefa. Pity about the quality of this record. Regards Diane Donnon South Australia On Sunday, 21 October 2012 13:49:42 UTC+10:30, Azoreanno wrote: Manuel de Sousa Mancebo married first to Perpetua Rosa November 26 1815. Manuel married second to Vitorina Rosa Jan 19 1818, record here http://culturacores. azores.gov.pt/biblioteca_ digital/SJR-VL-URZELINA-C- 1780-1843/SJR-VL-URZELINA-C- 1780-1843_item1/P114.html They werent sisters Marcio Borba Feel the Azores... visit http://azorean-roots.blogspot. com --- Em *sáb, 20/10/12, Diane ddo...@bigpond.net.au* escreveu: De: Diane ddo...@bigpond.net.au Assunto: Re: [AZORES-Genealogy] Please help with Perpetua Rosa again Para: azo...@googlegroups.com Data: Sábado, 20 de Outubro de 2012, 8:58 Hi Marcio thank you for the info. There is a bit of confusion about the generations here but I believe I am on the right track. My GGGrandfather Christiano Machado Pereira married twice - 2 sisters Victorina Rosa and Perpetua Rosa (b 1825 and 1828). The parents of the two sisters were Manuel de Sousa Machado and Vitorina de Jesus as per the marriage records. I have been searching for the marriage of Manuel and Victorina (the elder) prior to 1825 when Victorina (the younger) was born. and that's when I came across the marriage of Perpetua Rosa and Manuel de Sousa Machado in 1816 - as per the link. I figured this is too much of a co-incidence and now believe that randfather Manuel de Sousa Machado also married two sisters Perpetua Rosa and Victorina Rosa. Those female names are not all that common in the records. I haven't found the marriage (2nd marriage) of Manuel and Victorina (1) as yet but the same set of parents would confirm that they are also sisters. Does that make sense?? It's very exciting. thank you to Pam too. Diane Donnon South Australia On Saturday, 20 October 2012 14:00:00 UTC+10:30, Azoreanno wrote: i believe
Re: [AZORES-Genealogy] Please help with Perpetua Rosa again
I have been looking for the marriage of Manuel (the elder) with Francisca Josefa and came across this record. Could you please tell me if this very abbreviated groom's name is Manuel de Souza Machado. I am gradually learning to read the abbreviations but this would help. I don't think I can see the bride's name but this might be him having another marriage - which seems to run in the family. thank you Marcio http://culturacores.azores.gov.pt/biblioteca_digital/SJR-VL-URZELINA-C-1780-1843/SJR-VL-URZELINA-C-1780-1843_item1/P18.html On Sunday, 21 October 2012 19:27:55 UTC+10:30, Azoreanno wrote: Back then It was normal for the same person to show diferent last names in diferent records. In this case Mancebo usually means son of another of the same name which is the case. Manuel de Sousa Mancebo son of Manuel de Sousa Machado. I bet there are records of your Manuel de Sousa MAncebo as Manuel de Sousa Machado. As for life style I would start with an online research Marcio Borba Feel the Azores... visit http://azorean-roots.blogspot.com --- Em *dom, 21/10/12, Diane ddo...@bigpond.net.au javascript:*escreveu: De: Diane ddo...@bigpond.net.au javascript: Assunto: Re: [AZORES-Genealogy] Please help with Perpetua Rosa again Para: azo...@googlegroups.com javascript: Data: Domingo, 21 de Outubro de 2012, 10:47 Thank you Marcio I am happy that you have been able to read those names for me. Do you think the surname of Manuel and his father is definitely Mancebo and not Machado? Can you tell me the best way of going about doing some research about the lifestyles of the people of Sao Jorge in those times? It would need to be in English.Now that I have so many more ancestors I would like to know more about the way they lived. Regards Diane Donnon South Australia On Sunday, 21 October 2012 18:48:48 UTC+10:30, Azoreanno wrote: Victorina's parents were João de Sousa de Freitas and Isabel de Jesus Marcio Borba Feel the Azores... visit http://azorean-roots.blogspot. comhttp://azorean-roots.blogspot.com/ --- Em *dom, 21/10/12, Diane ddo...@bigpond.net.au* escreveu: De: Diane ddo...@bigpond.net.au Assunto: Re: [AZORES-Genealogy] Please help with Perpetua Rosa again Para: azo...@googlegroups.com Data: Domingo, 21 de Outubro de 2012, 7:10 Thanks Rick. Well there goes that theory. I had looked at that record and not picked up the names. I have macular degeneration in one eye and floaters in both so somethimes I get a bit cross-eyed trying to read them. Please can you decipher the names of Victorina's parents? There seems to be a Joann... His parents are on the first marriage record as Manuel de Sousa Machado (or Mancebo) and Francisco Josefa. Pity about the quality of this record. Regards Diane Donnon South Australia On Sunday, 21 October 2012 13:49:42 UTC+10:30, Azoreanno wrote: Manuel de Sousa Mancebo married first to Perpetua Rosa November 26 1815. Manuel married second to Vitorina Rosa Jan 19 1818, record here http://culturacores. azores.gov.pt/biblioteca_ digital/SJR-VL-URZELINA-C- 1780-1843/SJR-VL-URZELINA-C- 1780-1843_item1/P114.htmlhttp://culturacores.azores.gov.pt/biblioteca_digital/SJR-VL-URZELINA-C-1780-1843/SJR-VL-URZELINA-C-1780-1843_item1/P114.html They werent sisters Marcio Borba Feel the Azores... visit http://azorean-roots.blogspot. comhttp://azorean-roots.blogspot.com/ --- Em *sáb, 20/10/12, Diane ddo...@bigpond.net.au* escreveu: De: Diane ddo...@bigpond.net.au Assunto: Re: [AZORES-Genealogy] Please help with Perpetua Rosa again Para: azo...@googlegroups.com Data: Sábado, 20 de Outubro de 2012, 8:58 Hi Marcio thank you for the info. There is a bit of confusion about the generations here but I believe I am on the right track. My GGGrandfather Christiano Machado Pereira married twice - 2 sisters Victorina Rosa and Perpetua Rosa (b 1825 and 1828). The parents of the two sisters were Manuel de Sousa Machado and Vitorina de Jesus as per the marriage records. I have been searching for the marriage of Manuel and Victorina (the elder) prior to 1825 when Victorina (the younger) was born. and that's when I came across the marriage of Perpetua Rosa and Manuel de Sousa Machado in 1816 - as per the link. I figured this is too much of a co-incidence and now believe that randfather Manuel de Sousa Machado also married two sisters Perpetua Rosa and Victorina Rosa. Those female names are not all that common in the records. I haven't found the marriage (2nd marriage) of Manuel and Victorina (1) as yet but the same set of parents would confirm that they are also sisters. Does that make sense?? It's very exciting. thank you to Pam too. Diane Donnon South Australia On Saturday, 20 October 2012 14:00:00 UTC+10:30, Azoreanno wrote: i believe these are not your people since you are looking for the marriage of a Manuel de
Re: [AZORES-Genealogy] Please help with Perpetua Rosa again att.
Hi Gayle. You are right, no worries. I wrote usually which doesn't mean was always Marcio Borba Feel the Azores... visit http://azorean-roots.blogspot.com --- Em dom, 21/10/12, Gayle Machado goodw...@aol.com escreveu: De: Gayle Machado goodw...@aol.com Assunto: Re: [AZORES-Genealogy] Please help with Perpetua Rosa again Para: azores@googlegroups.com azores@googlegroups.com Data: Domingo, 21 de Outubro de 2012, 19:24 Sorry to interject myself into your conversations but I wanted to warn you about an assumption that could be dangerous. Mancebo does not always imply one person is the son of another. It actually means the younger and I have seen it used when it was a nephew (as with my own grandfather) and even with a young girl who carried the same name as another relative. It has caused others to confuse it with the title Junior. Again, I apologize for butting into your conversation and hope I've not caused any offense. Gayle On Oct 21, 2012, at 1:57 AM, Marcio Borba marcioborba_ge...@yahoo.com wrote: Back then It was normal for the same person to show diferent last names in diferent records. In this case Mancebo usually means son of another of the same name which is the case. Manuel de Sousa Mancebo son of Manuel de Sousa Machado. I bet there are records of your Manuel de Sousa MAncebo as Manuel de Sousa Machado. As for life style I would start with an online research Marcio Borba Feel the Azores... visit http://azorean-roots.blogspot.com --- Em dom, 21/10/12, Diane ddon...@bigpond.net.au escreveu: De: Diane ddon...@bigpond.net.au Assunto: Re: [AZORES-Genealogy] Please help with Perpetua Rosa again Para: azores@googlegroups.com Data: Domingo, 21 de Outubro de 2012, 10:47 Thank you MarcioI am happy that you have been able to read those names for me. Do you think the surname of Manuel and his father is definitely Mancebo and not Machado? Can you tell me the best way of going about doing some research about the lifestyles of the people of Sao Jorge in those times? It would need to be in English.Now that I have so many more ancestors I would like to know more about the way they lived. RegardsDiane DonnonSouth Australia On Sunday, 21 October 2012 18:48:48 UTC+10:30, Azoreanno wrote:Victorina's parents were João de Sousa de Freitas and Isabel de Jesus Marcio Borba Feel the Azores... visit http://azorean-roots.blogspot. com --- Em dom, 21/10/12, Diane ddo...@bigpond.net.au escreveu: De: Diane ddo...@bigpond.net.au Assunto: Re: [AZORES-Genealogy] Please help with Perpetua Rosa again Para: azo...@googlegroups.com Data: Domingo, 21 de Outubro de 2012, 7:10 Thanks Rick. Well there goes that theory. I had looked at that record and not picked up the names. I have macular degeneration in one eye and floaters in both so somethimes I get a bit cross-eyed trying to read them. Please can you decipher the names of Victorina's parents? There seems to be a Joann...His parents are on the first marriage record as Manuel de Sousa Machado (or Mancebo) and Francisco Josefa. Pity about the quality of this record. RegardsDiane DonnonSouth Australia On Sunday, 21 October 2012 13:49:42 UTC+10:30, Azoreanno wrote:Manuel de Sousa Mancebo married first to Perpetua Rosa November 26 1815. Manuel married second to Vitorina Rosa Jan 19 1818, record here http://culturacores. azores.gov.pt/biblioteca_ digital/SJR-VL-URZELINA-C- 1780-1843/SJR-VL-URZELINA-C- 1780-1843_item1/P114.html They werent sisters Marcio Borba Feel the Azores... visit http://azorean-roots.blogspot. com --- Em sáb, 20/10/12, Diane ddo...@bigpond.net.au escreveu: De: Diane ddo...@bigpond.net.au Assunto: Re: [AZORES-Genealogy] Please help with Perpetua Rosa again Para: azo...@googlegroups.com Data: Sábado, 20 de Outubro de 2012, 8:58 Hi Marcio thank you for the info. There is a bit of confusion about the generations here but I believe I am on the right track. My GGGrandfather Christiano Machado Pereira married twice - 2 sisters Victorina Rosa and Perpetua Rosa (b 1825 and 1828).The parents of the two sisters were Manuel de Sousa Machado and Vitorina de Jesus as per the marriage records. I have been searching for the marriage of Manuel and Victorina (the elder) prior to 1825 when Victorina (the younger) was born. and that's when I came across the marriage of Perpetua Rosa and Manuel de Sousa Machado in 1816 - as per the link. I figured this is too much of a co-incidence and now believe that randfather Manuel de Sousa Machado also married two sisters Perpetua Rosa and Victorina Rosa. Those female names are not all that common in the records. I haven't found the marriage (2nd marriage) of Manuel and Victorina (1) as yet but the same set of parents would confirm that they are also sisters. Does that make sense?? It's very exciting. thank you to Pam too. Diane DonnonSouth Australia On Saturday, 20 October 2012 14:00:00 UTC+10:30, Azoreanno wrote:i believe these are not your people since you
Re: [AZORES-Genealogy] Please help with Perpetua Rosa again att. Diane
Hi Yes it is. December 26 1785.Manuel de Sousa Machado son of Joao de Sousa Machado and Maria de JesusFrancisca Josefa daugther of Lucas Teixeira, deceased and Teresa de Jesus Marcio Borba Feel the Azores... visit http://azorean-roots.blogspot.com --- Em seg, 22/10/12, Diane ddon...@bigpond.net.au escreveu: De: Diane ddon...@bigpond.net.au Assunto: Re: [AZORES-Genealogy] Please help with Perpetua Rosa again Para: azores@googlegroups.com Data: Segunda-feira, 22 de Outubro de 2012, 1:04 I have been looking for the marriage of Manuel (the elder) with Francisca Josefa and came across this record. Could you please tell me if this very abbreviated groom's name is Manuel de Souza Machado. I am gradually learning to read the abbreviations but this would help. I don't think I can see the bride's name but this might be him having another marriage - which seems to run in the family. thank you Marcio http://culturacores.azores.gov.pt/biblioteca_digital/SJR-VL-URZELINA-C-1780-1843/SJR-VL-URZELINA-C-1780-1843_item1/P18.html On Sunday, 21 October 2012 19:27:55 UTC+10:30, Azoreanno wrote:Back then It was normal for the same person to show diferent last names in diferent records. In this case Mancebo usually means son of another of the same name which is the case. Manuel de Sousa Mancebo son of Manuel de Sousa Machado. I bet there are records of your Manuel de Sousa MAncebo as Manuel de Sousa Machado. As for life style I would start with an online research Marcio Borba Feel the Azores... visit http://azorean-roots.blogspot. com --- Em dom, 21/10/12, Diane ddo...@bigpond.net.au escreveu: De: Diane ddo...@bigpond.net.au Assunto: Re: [AZORES-Genealogy] Please help with Perpetua Rosa again Para: azo...@googlegroups.com Data: Domingo, 21 de Outubro de 2012, 10:47 Thank you MarcioI am happy that you have been able to read those names for me. Do you think the surname of Manuel and his father is definitely Mancebo and not Machado? Can you tell me the best way of going about doing some research about the lifestyles of the people of Sao Jorge in those times? It would need to be in English.Now that I have so many more ancestors I would like to know more about the way they lived. RegardsDiane DonnonSouth Australia On Sunday, 21 October 2012 18:48:48 UTC+10:30, Azoreanno wrote:Victorina's parents were João de Sousa de Freitas and Isabel de Jesus Marcio Borba Feel the Azores... visit http://azorean-roots.blogspot. com --- Em dom, 21/10/12, Diane ddo...@bigpond.net.au escreveu: De: Diane ddo...@bigpond.net.au Assunto: Re: [AZORES-Genealogy] Please help with Perpetua Rosa again Para: azo...@googlegroups.com Data: Domingo, 21 de Outubro de 2012, 7:10 Thanks Rick. Well there goes that theory. I had looked at that record and not picked up the names. I have macular degeneration in one eye and floaters in both so somethimes I get a bit cross-eyed trying to read them. Please can you decipher the names of Victorina's parents? There seems to be a Joann...His parents are on the first marriage record as Manuel de Sousa Machado (or Mancebo) and Francisco Josefa. Pity about the quality of this record. RegardsDiane DonnonSouth Australia On Sunday, 21 October 2012 13:49:42 UTC+10:30, Azoreanno wrote:Manuel de Sousa Mancebo married first to Perpetua Rosa November 26 1815. Manuel married second to Vitorina Rosa Jan 19 1818, record here http://culturacores. azores.gov.pt/biblioteca_ digital/SJR-VL-URZELINA-C- 1780-1843/SJR-VL-URZELINA-C- 1780-1843_item1/P114.html They werent sisters Marcio Borba Feel the Azores... visit http://azorean-roots.blogspot. com --- Em sáb, 20/10/12, Diane ddo...@bigpond.net.au escreveu: De: Diane ddo...@bigpond.net.au Assunto: Re: [AZORES-Genealogy] Please help with Perpetua Rosa again Para: azo...@googlegroups.com Data: Sábado, 20 de Outubro de 2012, 8:58 Hi Marcio thank you for the info. There is a bit of confusion about the generations here but I believe I am on the right track. My GGGrandfather Christiano Machado Pereira married twice - 2 sisters Victorina Rosa and Perpetua Rosa (b 1825 and 1828).The parents of the two sisters were Manuel de Sousa Machado and Vitorina de Jesus as per the marriage records. I have been searching for the marriage of Manuel and Victorina (the elder) prior to 1825 when Victorina (the younger) was born. and that's when I came across the marriage of Perpetua Rosa and Manuel de Sousa Machado in 1816 - as per the link. I figured this is too much of a co-incidence and now believe that randfather Manuel de Sousa Machado also married two sisters Perpetua Rosa and Victorina Rosa. Those female names are not all that common in the records. I haven't found the marriage (2nd marriage) of Manuel and Victorina (1) as yet but the same set of parents would confirm that they are also sisters. Does that make sense?? It's very exciting. thank you to Pam too. Diane DonnonSouth Australia On Saturday, 20 October 2012 14:00:00 UTC
Re: [AZORES-Genealogy] Please help with Perpetua Rosa again
I agree: usually Mancebo was the same as junior, but sometimes could be applied to nephews or grandsons. JS Lopes De: Gayle Machado goodw...@aol.com Para: azores@googlegroups.com azores@googlegroups.com Enviadas: Domingo, 21 de Outubro de 2012 15:24 Assunto: Re: [AZORES-Genealogy] Please help with Perpetua Rosa again Sorry to interject myself into your conversations but I wanted to warn you about an assumption that could be dangerous. Mancebo does not always imply one person is the son of another. It actually means the younger and I have seen it used when it was a nephew (as with my own grandfather) and even with a young girl who carried the same name as another relative. It has caused others to confuse it with the title Junior. Again, I apologize for butting into your conversation and hope I've not caused any offense. Gayle On Oct 21, 2012, at 1:57 AM, Marcio Borba marcioborba_ge...@yahoo.com wrote: Back then It was normal for the same person to show diferent last names in diferent records. In this case Mancebo usually means son of another of the same name which is the case. Manuel de Sousa Mancebo son of Manuel de Sousa Machado. I bet there are records of your Manuel de Sousa MAncebo as Manuel de Sousa Machado. As for life style I would start with an online research Marcio Borba Feel the Azores... visit http://azorean-roots.blogspot.com --- Em dom, 21/10/12, Diane ddon...@bigpond.net.au escreveu: De: Diane ddon...@bigpond.net.au Assunto: Re: [AZORES-Genealogy] Please help with Perpetua Rosa again Para: azores@googlegroups.com Data: Domingo, 21 de Outubro de 2012, 10:47 Thank you Marcio I am happy that you have been able to read those names for me. Do you think the surname of Manuel and his father is definitely Mancebo and not Machado? Can you tell me the best way of going about doing some research about the lifestyles of the people of Sao Jorge in those times? It would need to be in English.Now that I have so many more ancestors I would like to know more about the way they lived. Regards Diane Donnon South Australia On Sunday, 21 October 2012 18:48:48 UTC+10:30, Azoreanno wrote: Victorina's parents were João de Sousa de Freitas and Isabel de Jesus Marcio Borba Feel the Azores... visit http://azorean-roots.blogspot. com --- Em dom, 21/10/12, Diane ddo...@bigpond.net.au escreveu: De: Diane ddo...@bigpond.net.au Assunto: Re: [AZORES-Genealogy] Please help with Perpetua Rosa again Para: azo...@googlegroups.com Data: Domingo, 21 de Outubro de 2012, 7:10 Thanks Rick. Well there goes that theory. I had looked at that record and not picked up the names. I have macular degeneration in one eye and floaters in both so somethimes I get a bit cross-eyed trying to read them. Please can you decipher the names of Victorina's parents? There seems to be a Joann... His parents are on the first marriage record as Manuel de Sousa Machado (or Mancebo) and Francisco Josefa. Pity about the quality of this record. Regards Diane Donnon South Australia On Sunday, 21 October 2012 13:49:42 UTC+10:30, Azoreanno wrote: Manuel de Sousa Mancebo married first to Perpetua Rosa November 26 1815. Manuel married second to Vitorina Rosa Jan 19 1818, record here http://culturacores. azores.gov.pt/biblioteca_ digital/SJR-VL-URZELINA-C- 1780-1843/SJR-VL-URZELINA-C- 1780-1843_item1/P114.html They werent sisters Marcio Borba Feel the Azores... visit http://azorean-roots.blogspot. com --- Em sáb, 20/10/12, Diane ddo...@bigpond.net.au escreveu: De: Diane ddo...@bigpond.net.au Assunto: Re: [AZORES-Genealogy] Please help with Perpetua Rosa again Para: azo...@googlegroups.com Data: Sábado, 20 de Outubro de 2012, 8:58 Hi Marcio thank you for the info. There is a bit of confusion about the generations here but I believe I am on the right track. My GGGrandfather Christiano Machado Pereira married twice - 2 sisters Victorina Rosa and Perpetua Rosa (b 1825 and 1828). The parents of the two sisters were Manuel de Sousa Machado and Vitorina de Jesus as per the marriage records. I have been searching for the marriage of Manuel and Victorina (the elder) prior to 1825 when Victorina (the younger) was born. and that's when I came across the marriage of Perpetua Rosa and Manuel de Sousa Machado in 1816 - as per the link. I figured this is too much of a co-incidence and now believe that randfather Manuel de Sousa Machado also married two sisters Perpetua Rosa and Victorina Rosa. Those female names are not all that common in the records. I haven't found the marriage (2nd marriage) of Manuel and Victorina (1) as yet but the same set of parents would confirm that they are also sisters. Does that make sense?? It's very exciting. thank you to Pam too. Diane Donnon South Australia On Saturday, 20 October 2012 14:00:00 UTC+10:30, Azoreanno wrote: i believe these are not your people since you are looking
Re: [AZORES-Genealogy] Please help with Perpetua Rosa again att. Diane
Thanks again Marcio. I am so pleased that I am starting to get the hang of reading these things but this one was rather difficult. Now I will go looking for some more. Regards Diane Donnon On Monday, 22 October 2012 10:15:31 UTC+10:30, Azoreanno wrote: Hi Yes it is. December 26 1785. Manuel de Sousa Machado son of Joao de Sousa Machado and Maria de Jesus Francisca Josefa daugther of Lucas Teixeira, deceased and Teresa de Jesus Marcio Borba Feel the Azores... visit http://azorean-roots.blogspot.com --- Em *seg, 22/10/12, Diane ddo...@bigpond.net.au javascript:*escreveu: De: Diane ddo...@bigpond.net.au javascript: Assunto: Re: [AZORES-Genealogy] Please help with Perpetua Rosa again Para: azo...@googlegroups.com javascript: Data: Segunda-feira, 22 de Outubro de 2012, 1:04 I have been looking for the marriage of Manuel (the elder) with Francisca Josefa and came across this record. Could you please tell me if this very abbreviated groom's name is Manuel de Souza Machado. I am gradually learning to read the abbreviations but this would help. I don't think I can see the bride's name but this might be him having another marriage - which seems to run in the family. thank you Marcio http://culturacores.azores.gov.pt/biblioteca_digital/SJR-VL-URZELINA-C-1780-1843/SJR-VL-URZELINA-C-1780-1843_item1/P18.html On Sunday, 21 October 2012 19:27:55 UTC+10:30, Azoreanno wrote: Back then It was normal for the same person to show diferent last names in diferent records. In this case Mancebo usually means son of another of the same name which is the case. Manuel de Sousa Mancebo son of Manuel de Sousa Machado. I bet there are records of your Manuel de Sousa MAncebo as Manuel de Sousa Machado. As for life style I would start with an online research Marcio Borba Feel the Azores... visit http://azorean-roots.blogspot. comhttp://azorean-roots.blogspot.com/ --- Em *dom, 21/10/12, Diane ddo...@bigpond.net.au* escreveu: De: Diane ddo...@bigpond.net.au Assunto: Re: [AZORES-Genealogy] Please help with Perpetua Rosa again Para: azo...@googlegroups.com Data: Domingo, 21 de Outubro de 2012, 10:47 Thank you Marcio I am happy that you have been able to read those names for me. Do you think the surname of Manuel and his father is definitely Mancebo and not Machado? Can you tell me the best way of going about doing some research about the lifestyles of the people of Sao Jorge in those times? It would need to be in English.Now that I have so many more ancestors I would like to know more about the way they lived. Regards Diane Donnon South Australia On Sunday, 21 October 2012 18:48:48 UTC+10:30, Azoreanno wrote: Victorina's parents were João de Sousa de Freitas and Isabel de Jesus Marcio Borba Feel the Azores... visit http://azorean-roots.blogspot. comhttp://azorean-roots.blogspot.com/ --- Em *dom, 21/10/12, Diane ddo...@bigpond.net.au* escreveu: De: Diane ddo...@bigpond.net.au Assunto: Re: [AZORES-Genealogy] Please help with Perpetua Rosa again Para: azo...@googlegroups.com Data: Domingo, 21 de Outubro de 2012, 7:10 Thanks Rick. Well there goes that theory. I had looked at that record and not picked up the names. I have macular degeneration in one eye and floaters in both so somethimes I get a bit cross-eyed trying to read them. Please can you decipher the names of Victorina's parents? There seems to be a Joann... His parents are on the first marriage record as Manuel de Sousa Machado (or Mancebo) and Francisco Josefa. Pity about the quality of this record. Regards Diane Donnon South Australia On Sunday, 21 October 2012 13:49:42 UTC+10:30, Azoreanno wrote: Manuel de Sousa Mancebo married first to Perpetua Rosa November 26 1815. Manuel married second to Vitorina Rosa Jan 19 1818, record here http://culturacores. azores.gov.pt/biblioteca_ digital/SJR-VL-URZELINA-C- 1780-1843/SJR-VL-URZELINA-C- 1780-1843_item1/P114.htmlhttp://culturacores.azores.gov.pt/biblioteca_digital/SJR-VL-URZELINA-C-1780-1843/SJR-VL-URZELINA-C-1780-1843_item1/P114.html They werent sisters Marcio Borba Feel the Azores... visit http://azorean-roots.blogspot. comhttp://azorean-roots.blogspot.com/ --- Em *sáb, 20/10/12, Diane ddo...@bigpond.net.au* escreveu: De: Diane ddo...@bigpond.net.au Assunto: Re: [AZORES-Genealogy] Please help with Perpetua Rosa again Para: azo...@googlegroups.com Data: Sábado, 20 de Outubro de 2012, 8:58 Hi Marcio thank you for the info. There is a bit of confusion about the generations here but I believe I am on the right track. My GGGrandfather Christiano Machado Pereira married twice - 2 sisters Victorina Rosa and Perpetua Rosa (b 1825 and 1828). The parents of the two sisters were Manuel de Sousa Machado and Vitorina de Jesus as per the marriage records. I have been searching for the marriage of Manuel and Victorina (the elder) prior to 1825
RE: [AZORES-Genealogy] Please help with Perpetua Rosa again
It is 26 Jun 1815 It is Manuel Sousa Machado son of Manuel Sousa Machado and I think Francisca Josefa. The bride is Perpetua Rosa daughter of Jose Francisco? Cabral and Isabel Espirito Santo? who is deceased. The names in the margin are just to help locate the record easier without having to read the whole record. I will let others add to this and hopefully verify what I read. Rick Richard Francis Pimentel Spring, TX Formerly of Epping, New Hampshire Researching, Riberia Grande, Riberinha, Achada Grande, Bretanha, and Ponta Delgada, Sao Miguel, Acores From: azores@googlegroups.com [mailto:azores@googlegroups.com] On Behalf Of Diane Sent: Friday, October 19, 2012 8:47 PM To: azores@googlegroups.com Subject: [AZORES-Genealogy] Please help with Perpetua Rosa again I have found a marriage record where the name Perpetua Rosa occurs with I think her parents mentioned. It is a long record and I am a bit confused as who are the bride and groom and who all the others might be. There is Manoel de Sousa Machado who was one of the same family. The marriage appears to have occurred 6 June 1815 and there is a notation in the column which looks like Perpetua is mentioned there. My query is mainly if anyone can say whether those people are the parents of Perpetua Rosa? and is she the bride? Thanks for any help. I am gradually learning the reading but some are harder than others - as you all well know. http://culturacores.azores.gov.pt/biblioteca_digital/SJR-VL-URZELINA-C-1780- 1843/SJR-VL-URZELINA-C-1780-1843_item1/P101.html Diane Donnon South Australia -- To unsubscribe from this group, send email to azores+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com. Follow the confirmation directions when they arrive. For more options, such as changing to List, Digest, Abridged, or No Mail (vacation) mode, log into your Google account and visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/Azores. Click in the blue area on the right that says Join this group and it will take you to Edit my membership. -- To unsubscribe from this group, send email to azores+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com. Follow the confirmation directions when they arrive. For more options, such as changing to List, Digest, Abridged, or No Mail (vacation) mode, log into your Google account and visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/Azores. Click in the blue area on the right that says Join this group and it will take you to Edit my membership.
Re: [AZORES-Genealogy] Please help with Perpetua Rosa again
Hi Marcio thank you for the info. There is a bit of confusion about the generations here but I believe I am on the right track. My GGGrandfather Christiano Machado Pereira married twice - 2 sisters Victorina Rosa and Perpetua Rosa (b 1825 and 1828). The parents of the two sisters were Manuel de Sousa Machado and Vitorina de Jesus as per the marriage records. I have been searching for the marriage of Manuel and Victorina (the elder) prior to 1825 when Victorina (the younger) was born. and that's when I came across the marriage of Perpetua Rosa and Manuel de Sousa Machado in 1816 - as per the link. I figured this is too much of a co-incidence and now believe that randfather Manuel de Sousa Machado also married two sisters Perpetua Rosa and Victorina Rosa. Those female names are not all that common in the records. I haven't found the marriage (2nd marriage) of Manuel and Victorina (1) as yet but the same set of parents would confirm that they are also sisters. Does that make sense?? It's very exciting. thank you to Pam too. Diane Donnon South Australia On Saturday, 20 October 2012 14:00:00 UTC+10:30, Azoreanno wrote: i believe these are not your people since you are looking for the marriage of a Manuel de Sousa Mancebo and Victorina Rosa right?. The link is to a marriage between a Manuel de Sousa Machado and a Perpetua Rosa. Marcio Borba Feel the Azores... visit http://azorean-roots.blogspot.com --- Em *sáb, 20/10/12, Diane ddo...@bigpond.net.au javascript:*escreveu: De: Diane ddo...@bigpond.net.au javascript: Assunto: [AZORES-Genealogy] Please help with Perpetua Rosa again Para: azo...@googlegroups.com javascript: Data: Sábado, 20 de Outubro de 2012, 3:46 I have found a marriage record where the name Perpetua Rosa occurs with I think her parents mentioned. It is a long record and I am a bit confused as who are the bride and groom and who all the others might be. There is Manoel de Sousa Machado who was one of the same family. The marriage appears to have occurred 6 June 1815 and there is a notation in the column which looks like Perpetua is mentioned there. My query is mainly if anyone can say whether those people are the parents of Perpetua Rosa? and is she the bride? Thanks for any help. I am gradually learning the reading but some are harder than others - as you all well know. http://culturacores.azores.gov.pt/biblioteca_digital/SJR-VL-URZELINA-C-1780-1843/SJR-VL-URZELINA-C-1780-1843_item1/P101.html Diane Donnon South Australia -- To unsubscribe from this group, send email to azores+un...@googlegroups.com javascript:. Follow the confirmation directions when they arrive. For more options, such as changing to List, Digest, Abridged, or No Mail (vacation) mode, log into your Google account and visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/Azores. Click in the blue area on the right that says Join this group and it will take you to Edit my membership. -- To unsubscribe from this group, send email to azores+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com. Follow the confirmation directions when they arrive. For more options, such as changing to List, Digest, Abridged, or No Mail (vacation) mode, log into your Google account and visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/Azores. Click in the blue area on the right that says Join this group and it will take you to Edit my membership.
RE: [AZORES-Genealogy] Please help with Perpetua Rosa again
I see a problem in that on a second marriage record it will usually state the name of the first spouse. The record on the marriage of Perpetua Rosa and Manuel de Sousa Machado there is no indication of it being a second marriage. Rick Richard Francis Pimentel Spring, TX Formerly of Epping, New Hampshire Researching, Riberia Grande, Riberinha, Achada Grande, Bretanha, and Ponta Delgada, Sao Miguel, Acores From: azores@googlegroups.com [mailto:azores@googlegroups.com] On Behalf Of Diane Sent: Saturday, October 20, 2012 1:58 AM To: azores@googlegroups.com Subject: Re: [AZORES-Genealogy] Please help with Perpetua Rosa again Hi Marcio thank you for the info. There is a bit of confusion about the generations here but I believe I am on the right track. My GGGrandfather Christiano Machado Pereira married twice - 2 sisters Victorina Rosa and Perpetua Rosa (b 1825 and 1828). The parents of the two sisters were Manuel de Sousa Machado and Vitorina de Jesus as per the marriage records. I have been searching for the marriage of Manuel and Victorina (the elder) prior to 1825 when Victorina (the younger) was born. and that's when I came across the marriage of Perpetua Rosa and Manuel de Sousa Machado in 1816 - as per the link. I figured this is too much of a co-incidence and now believe that randfather Manuel de Sousa Machado also married two sisters Perpetua Rosa and Victorina Rosa. Those female names are not all that common in the records. I haven't found the marriage (2nd marriage) of Manuel and Victorina (1) as yet but the same set of parents would confirm that they are also sisters. Does that make sense?? It's very exciting. thank you to Pam too. Diane Donnon South Australia -- To unsubscribe from this group, send email to azores+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com. Follow the confirmation directions when they arrive. For more options, such as changing to List, Digest, Abridged, or No Mail (vacation) mode, log into your Google account and visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/Azores. Click in the blue area on the right that says Join this group and it will take you to Edit my membership.
Re: [AZORES-Genealogy] Please help with Perpetua Rosa again
Hi Rick I know you are right about mentioning a second marriage and, in the case of the younger sisters, Victorina was married first and Perpetua second - to Christiano. The marriage records say that Perpetua was the second marriage and I have family proof that this was the case. That one is fine. In the current search (the previous generation) I believe Perpetua was married first and Victorina second. My search now is for the marriage in Urzelina sometime prior to 1825 when the first Victorina was married to Manoel, his second marriage. A lot of the records are very degraded around this time. Victorina the younger is my ancestor and it is clear that her mother was also Victorina. I am working on the theory that the mother named her first daughter after herself and the second daughter after her sister Perpetua (?) (who had also been married to Manoel de Sousa Machado). The second marriage record of Manoel can prove or disprove. It just seems all too coincidental that the second pair of sisters married the same guy and that Manoel de Sousa Machado appears twice in the same village, same era, married to a Victorina and a Perpetua. the names aren't all that common. If so, it seems they were a very close family. Diane Donnon South Australia On Sunday, 21 October 2012 05:13:06 UTC+10:30, Richard Francis Pimentel wrote: *I see a problem in that on a second marriage record it will usually state the name of the first spouse. The record on the marriage of Perpetua Rosa and Manuel de Sousa Machado there is no indication of it being a second marriage.* * * *Rick* * * *Richard Francis Pimentel* *Spring, TX* *Formerly of Epping, New Hampshire * * * *Researching, Riberia Grande, Riberinha, Achada Grande, Bretanha, and Ponta Delgada, Sao Miguel, Acores* * * *From:* azo...@googlegroups.com javascript: [mailto: azo...@googlegroups.com javascript:] *On Behalf Of *Diane *Sent:* Saturday, October 20, 2012 1:58 AM *To:* azo...@googlegroups.com javascript: *Subject:* Re: [AZORES-Genealogy] Please help with Perpetua Rosa again Hi Marcio thank you for the info. There is a bit of confusion about the generations here but I believe I am on the right track. My GGGrandfather Christiano Machado Pereira married twice - 2 sisters Victorina Rosa and Perpetua Rosa (b 1825 and 1828). The parents of the two sisters were Manuel de Sousa Machado and Vitorina de Jesus as per the marriage records. I have been searching for the marriage of Manuel and Victorina (the elder) prior to 1825 when Victorina (the younger) was born. and that's when I came across the marriage of Perpetua Rosa and Manuel de Sousa Machado in 1816 - as per the link. I figured this is too much of a co-incidence and now believe that randfather Manuel de Sousa Machado also married two sisters Perpetua Rosa and Victorina Rosa. Those female names are not all that common in the records. I haven't found the marriage (2nd marriage) of Manuel and Victorina (1) as yet but the same set of parents would confirm that they are also sisters. Does that make sense?? It's very exciting. thank you to Pam too. Diane Donnon South Australia -- To unsubscribe from this group, send email to azores+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com. Follow the confirmation directions when they arrive. For more options, such as changing to List, Digest, Abridged, or No Mail (vacation) mode, log into your Google account and visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/Azores. Click in the blue area on the right that says Join this group and it will take you to Edit my membership.
Re: [AZORES-Genealogy] Please help with Perpetua Rosa again
Manuel de Sousa Mancebo married first to Perpetua Rosa November 26 1815. Manuel married second to Vitorina Rosa Jan 19 1818, record here http://culturacores.azores.gov.pt/biblioteca_digital/SJR-VL-URZELINA-C-1780-1843/SJR-VL-URZELINA-C-1780-1843_item1/P114.html They werent sisters Marcio Borba Feel the Azores... visit http://azorean-roots.blogspot.com --- Em sáb, 20/10/12, Diane ddon...@bigpond.net.au escreveu: De: Diane ddon...@bigpond.net.au Assunto: Re: [AZORES-Genealogy] Please help with Perpetua Rosa again Para: azores@googlegroups.com Data: Sábado, 20 de Outubro de 2012, 8:58 Hi Marcio thank you for the info. There is a bit of confusion about the generations here but I believe I am on the right track. My GGGrandfather Christiano Machado Pereira married twice - 2 sisters Victorina Rosa and Perpetua Rosa (b 1825 and 1828).The parents of the two sisters were Manuel de Sousa Machado and Vitorina de Jesus as per the marriage records. I have been searching for the marriage of Manuel and Victorina (the elder) prior to 1825 when Victorina (the younger) was born. and that's when I came across the marriage of Perpetua Rosa and Manuel de Sousa Machado in 1816 - as per the link. I figured this is too much of a co-incidence and now believe that randfather Manuel de Sousa Machado also married two sisters Perpetua Rosa and Victorina Rosa. Those female names are not all that common in the records. I haven't found the marriage (2nd marriage) of Manuel and Victorina (1) as yet but the same set of parents would confirm that they are also sisters. Does that make sense?? It's very exciting. thank you to Pam too. Diane DonnonSouth Australia On Saturday, 20 October 2012 14:00:00 UTC+10:30, Azoreanno wrote:i believe these are not your people since you are looking for the marriage of a Manuel de Sousa Mancebo and Victorina Rosa right?. The link is to a marriage between a Manuel de Sousa Machado and a Perpetua Rosa. Marcio Borba Feel the Azores... visit http://azorean-roots.blogspot. com --- Em sáb, 20/10/12, Diane ddo...@bigpond.net.au escreveu: De: Diane ddo...@bigpond.net.au Assunto: [AZORES-Genealogy] Please help with Perpetua Rosa again Para: azo...@googlegroups.com Data: Sábado, 20 de Outubro de 2012, 3:46 I have found a marriage record where the name Perpetua Rosa occurs with I think her parents mentioned. It is a long record and I am a bit confused as who are the bride and groom and who all the others might be. There is Manoel de Sousa Machado who was one of the same family. The marriage appears to have occurred 6 June 1815 and there is a notation in the column which looks like Perpetua is mentioned there. My query is mainly if anyone can say whether those people are the parents of Perpetua Rosa? and is she the bride? Thanks for any help. I am gradually learning the reading but some are harder than others - as you all well know. http://culturacores.azores. gov.pt/biblioteca_digital/SJR- VL-URZELINA-C-1780-1843/SJR- VL-URZELINA-C-1780-1843_item1/ P101.html Diane DonnonSouth Australia -- To unsubscribe from this group, send email to Azores+un...@ googlegroups.com. Follow the confirmation directions when they arrive. For more options, such as changing to List, Digest, Abridged, or No Mail (vacation) mode, log into your Google account and visit this group at http://groups.google.com/ group/Azores. Click in the blue area on the right that says Join this group and it will take you to Edit my membership. -- To unsubscribe from this group, send email to azores+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com. Follow the confirmation directions when they arrive. For more options, such as changing to List, Digest, Abridged, or No Mail (vacation) mode, log into your Google account and visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/Azores. Click in the blue area on the right that says Join this group and it will take you to Edit my membership. -- To unsubscribe from this group, send email to azores+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com. Follow the confirmation directions when they arrive. For more options, such as changing to List, Digest, Abridged, or No Mail (vacation) mode, log into your Google account and visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/Azores. Click in the blue area on the right that says Join this group and it will take you to Edit my membership.
Re: [AZORES-Genealogy] Please help with Perpetua Rosa again
Yes she is the bride. His parents Manuel de Sousa and Francisca Josefa. Her parents it looks like Jose Ferreira of Sebastiao? and Isabel de Sousa? On Fri, Oct 19, 2012 at 6:46 PM, Diane ddon...@bigpond.net.au wrote: I have found a marriage record where the name Perpetua Rosa occurs with I think her parents mentioned. It is a long record and I am a bit confused as who are the bride and groom and who all the others might be. There is Manoel de Sousa Machado who was one of the same family. The marriage appears to have occurred 6 June 1815 and there is a notation in the column which looks like Perpetua is mentioned there. My query is mainly if anyone can say whether those people are the parents of Perpetua Rosa? and is she the bride? Thanks for any help. I am gradually learning the reading but some are harder than others - as you all well know. http://culturacores.azores.gov.pt/biblioteca_digital/SJR-VL-URZELINA-C-1780-1843/SJR-VL-URZELINA-C-1780-1843_item1/P101.html Diane Donnon South Australia -- To unsubscribe from this group, send email to azores+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com. Follow the confirmation directions when they arrive. For more options, such as changing to List, Digest, Abridged, or No Mail (vacation) mode, log into your Google account and visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/Azores. Click in the blue area on the right that says Join this group and it will take you to Edit my membership. -- To unsubscribe from this group, send email to azores+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com. Follow the confirmation directions when they arrive. For more options, such as changing to List, Digest, Abridged, or No Mail (vacation) mode, log into your Google account and visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/Azores. Click in the blue area on the right that says Join this group and it will take you to Edit my membership.
Re: [AZORES-Genealogy] Please help with Perpetua Rosa again
Most likely the fathers name was Manuel de Sousa Machado also the abreviation after Sousa could be Machado On Fri, Oct 19, 2012 at 7:32 PM, Pam Santos pamsanto...@gmail.com wrote: Yes she is the bride. His parents Manuel de Sousa and Francisca Josefa. Her parents it looks like Jose Ferreira of Sebastiao? and Isabel de Sousa? On Fri, Oct 19, 2012 at 6:46 PM, Diane ddon...@bigpond.net.au wrote: I have found a marriage record where the name Perpetua Rosa occurs with I think her parents mentioned. It is a long record and I am a bit confused as who are the bride and groom and who all the others might be. There is Manoel de Sousa Machado who was one of the same family. The marriage appears to have occurred 6 June 1815 and there is a notation in the column which looks like Perpetua is mentioned there. My query is mainly if anyone can say whether those people are the parents of Perpetua Rosa? and is she the bride? Thanks for any help. I am gradually learning the reading but some are harder than others - as you all well know. http://culturacores.azores.gov.pt/biblioteca_digital/SJR-VL-URZELINA-C-1780-1843/SJR-VL-URZELINA-C-1780-1843_item1/P101.html Diane Donnon South Australia -- To unsubscribe from this group, send email to azores+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com. Follow the confirmation directions when they arrive. For more options, such as changing to List, Digest, Abridged, or No Mail (vacation) mode, log into your Google account and visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/Azores. Click in the blue area on the right that says Join this group and it will take you to Edit my membership. -- To unsubscribe from this group, send email to azores+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com. Follow the confirmation directions when they arrive. For more options, such as changing to List, Digest, Abridged, or No Mail (vacation) mode, log into your Google account and visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/Azores. Click in the blue area on the right that says Join this group and it will take you to Edit my membership.
Re: [AZORES-Genealogy] Please help with Perpetua Rosa again
i believe these are not your people since you are looking for the marriage of a Manuel de Sousa Mancebo and Victorina Rosa right?. The link is to a marriage between a Manuel de Sousa Machado and a Perpetua Rosa. Marcio Borba Feel the Azores... visit http://azorean-roots.blogspot.com --- Em sáb, 20/10/12, Diane ddon...@bigpond.net.au escreveu: De: Diane ddon...@bigpond.net.au Assunto: [AZORES-Genealogy] Please help with Perpetua Rosa again Para: azores@googlegroups.com Data: Sábado, 20 de Outubro de 2012, 3:46 I have found a marriage record where the name Perpetua Rosa occurs with I think her parents mentioned. It is a long record and I am a bit confused as who are the bride and groom and who all the others might be. There is Manoel de Sousa Machado who was one of the same family. The marriage appears to have occurred 6 June 1815 and there is a notation in the column which looks like Perpetua is mentioned there. My query is mainly if anyone can say whether those people are the parents of Perpetua Rosa? and is she the bride? Thanks for any help. I am gradually learning the reading but some are harder than others - as you all well know. http://culturacores.azores.gov.pt/biblioteca_digital/SJR-VL-URZELINA-C-1780-1843/SJR-VL-URZELINA-C-1780-1843_item1/P101.html Diane DonnonSouth Australia -- To unsubscribe from this group, send email to azores+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com. Follow the confirmation directions when they arrive. For more options, such as changing to List, Digest, Abridged, or No Mail (vacation) mode, log into your Google account and visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/Azores. Click in the blue area on the right that says Join this group and it will take you to Edit my membership. -- To unsubscribe from this group, send email to azores+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com. Follow the confirmation directions when they arrive. For more options, such as changing to List, Digest, Abridged, or No Mail (vacation) mode, log into your Google account and visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/Azores. Click in the blue area on the right that says Join this group and it will take you to Edit my membership.
Re: [AZORES-Genealogy] Please help with Perpetua Rosa again
ups my mistake. Just saw that thats his first marriage Marcio Borba Feel the Azores... visit http://azorean-roots.blogspot.com --- Em sáb, 20/10/12, Marcio Borba marcioborba_ge...@yahoo.com escreveu: De: Marcio Borba marcioborba_ge...@yahoo.com Assunto: Re: [AZORES-Genealogy] Please help with Perpetua Rosa again Para: azores@googlegroups.com Data: Sábado, 20 de Outubro de 2012, 5:29 i believe these are not your people since you are looking for the marriage of a Manuel de Sousa Mancebo and Victorina Rosa right?. The link is to a marriage between a Manuel de Sousa Machado and a Perpetua Rosa. Marcio Borba Feel the Azores... visit http://azorean-roots.blogspot.com --- Em sáb, 20/10/12, Diane ddon...@bigpond.net.au escreveu: De: Diane ddon...@bigpond.net.au Assunto: [AZORES-Genealogy] Please help with Perpetua Rosa again Para: azores@googlegroups.com Data: Sábado, 20 de Outubro de 2012, 3:46 I have found a marriage record where the name Perpetua Rosa occurs with I think her parents mentioned. It is a long record and I am a bit confused as who are the bride and groom and who all the others might be. There is Manoel de Sousa Machado who was one of the same family. The marriage appears to have occurred 6 June 1815 and there is a notation in the column which looks like Perpetua is mentioned there. My query is mainly if anyone can say whether those people are the parents of Perpetua Rosa? and is she the bride? Thanks for any help. I am gradually learning the reading but some are harder than others - as you all well know. http://culturacores.azores.gov.pt/biblioteca_digital/SJR-VL-URZELINA-C-1780-1843/SJR-VL-URZELINA-C-1780-1843_item1/P101.html Diane DonnonSouth Australia -- To unsubscribe from this group, send email to azores+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com. Follow the confirmation directions when they arrive. For more options, such as changing to List, Digest, Abridged, or No Mail (vacation) mode, log into your Google account and visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/Azores. Click in the blue area on the right that says Join this group and it will take you to Edit my membership. -- To unsubscribe from this group, send email to azores+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com. Follow the confirmation directions when they arrive. For more options, such as changing to List, Digest, Abridged, or No Mail (vacation) mode, log into your Google account and visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/Azores. Click in the blue area on the right that says Join this group and it will take you to Edit my membership. -- To unsubscribe from this group, send email to azores+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com. Follow the confirmation directions when they arrive. For more options, such as changing to List, Digest, Abridged, or No Mail (vacation) mode, log into your Google account and visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/Azores. Click in the blue area on the right that says Join this group and it will take you to Edit my membership.
