Re: [backstage] iPad
Underwhelming. It's a big iPhone. It's named after the Star Trek PADD. Might be good it if ran an operating system and had a keyboard. 2010/1/27 Mo McRoberts m...@nevali.net So, what does everyone think? (and how much effect will it have on the video situation over the next 18 months or so, do we reckon?) M. - Sent via the backstage.bbc.co.uk discussion group. To unsubscribe, please visit http://backstage.bbc.co.uk/archives/2005/01/mailing_list.html. Unofficial list archive: http://www.mail-archive.com/backstage@lists.bbc.co.uk/ -- Brian Butterworth follow me on twitter: http://twitter.com/briantist web: http://www.ukfree.tv - independent digital television and switchover advice, since 2002
Re: [backstage] iPad
On Thu, Jan 28, 2010 at 08:03, Brian Butterworth briant...@freeview.tv wrote: Underwhelming. It's a big iPhone. It's named after the Star Trek PADD. Might be good it if ran an operating system and had a keyboard. It does, both. - Sent via the backstage.bbc.co.uk discussion group. To unsubscribe, please visit http://backstage.bbc.co.uk/archives/2005/01/mailing_list.html. Unofficial list archive: http://www.mail-archive.com/backstage@lists.bbc.co.uk/
Re: [backstage] iPad
It does, both, what? 2010/1/28 Mo McRoberts m...@nevali.net On Thu, Jan 28, 2010 at 08:03, Brian Butterworth briant...@freeview.tv wrote: Underwhelming. It's a big iPhone. It's named after the Star Trek PADD. Might be good it if ran an operating system and had a keyboard. It does, both. - Sent via the backstage.bbc.co.uk discussion group. To unsubscribe, please visit http://backstage.bbc.co.uk/archives/2005/01/mailing_list.html. Unofficial list archive: http://www.mail-archive.com/backstage@lists.bbc.co.uk/ -- Brian Butterworth follow me on twitter: http://twitter.com/briantist web: http://www.ukfree.tv - independent digital television and switchover advice, since 2002
Re: [backstage] iPad
On Thu, Jan 28, 2010 at 08:32, Brian Butterworth briant...@freeview.tv wrote: It does, both, what? it runs an operating system. it has a keyboard. 2010/1/28 Mo McRoberts m...@nevali.net On Thu, Jan 28, 2010 at 08:03, Brian Butterworth briant...@freeview.tv wrote: Underwhelming. It's a big iPhone. It's named after the Star Trek PADD. Might be good it if ran an operating system and had a keyboard. It does, both. - Sent via the backstage.bbc.co.uk discussion group. To unsubscribe, please visit http://backstage.bbc.co.uk/archives/2005/01/mailing_list.html. Unofficial list archive: http://www.mail-archive.com/backstage@lists.bbc.co.uk/ -- Brian Butterworth follow me on twitter: http://twitter.com/briantist web: http://www.ukfree.tv - independent digital television and switchover advice, since 2002 - Sent via the backstage.bbc.co.uk discussion group. To unsubscribe, please visit http://backstage.bbc.co.uk/archives/2005/01/mailing_list.html. Unofficial list archive: http://www.mail-archive.com/backstage@lists.bbc.co.uk/
Re: [backstage] iPad
On 28/01/10 08:03, Brian Butterworth wrote: Underwhelming. It's a big iPhone. It's named after the Star Trek PADD. Might be good it if ran an operating system and had a keyboard. As Mo points out it does. It can run iPhone apps so if it's not running the iPhone OS it's running another OSX variant. It has an on-screen keyboard and you can plug in a physical keyboard (they even provide a dock so you can configure it as a desktop system while doing so). But it also has DRM... http://www.defectivebydesign.org/ipad http://www.theregister.co.uk/2010/01/27/defective_by_design/ - Rob. - Sent via the backstage.bbc.co.uk discussion group. To unsubscribe, please visit http://backstage.bbc.co.uk/archives/2005/01/mailing_list.html. Unofficial list archive: http://www.mail-archive.com/backstage@lists.bbc.co.uk/
Re: [backstage] iPad
On Thu, Jan 28, 2010 at 09:06, Rupert Watson rup...@root6.com wrote: Did he say whether iBooks will run on existing iPhones? Not seen it mentioned. iBooks is US-only for the moment, though. - Sent via the backstage.bbc.co.uk discussion group. To unsubscribe, please visit http://backstage.bbc.co.uk/archives/2005/01/mailing_list.html. Unofficial list archive: http://www.mail-archive.com/backstage@lists.bbc.co.uk/
Re: [backstage] iPad
Did he say whether iBooks will run on existing iPhones? Sent from my dog On 28 Jan 2010, at 08:53, Mo McRoberts m...@nevali.net wrote: On Thu, Jan 28, 2010 at 08:32, Brian Butterworth briant...@freeview.tv wrote: It does, both, what? it runs an operating system. it has a keyboard. 2010/1/28 Mo McRoberts m...@nevali.net On Thu, Jan 28, 2010 at 08:03, Brian Butterworth briant...@freeview.tv wrote: Underwhelming. Â It's a big iPhone. It's named after the Star Trek PADD. Might be good it if ran an operating system and had a keyboard. It does, both. - Sent via the backstage.bbc.co.uk discussion group. Â To unsubscr ibe, please visit http://backstage.bbc.co.uk/archives/2005/01/mailing_list.html. Â Unofficial list archive: http://www.mail-archive.com/backstage@lists.bbc.co.uk/ -- Brian Butterworth follow me on twitter: http://twitter.com/briantist web: http://www.ukfree.tv - independent digital television and switchover advice, since 2002 - Sent via the backstage.bbc.co.uk discussion group. To unsubscribe, please visit http://backstage.bbc.co.uk/archives/2005/01/mailing_list.html . Unofficial list archive: http://www.mail-archive.com/backstage@lists.bbc.co.uk/ __ This email has been scanned by the MessageLabs Email Security System. For more information please visit http://www.messagelabs.com/email __ ROOT 6 LIMITED Registered in the UK at 4 WARDOUR MEWS, LONDON W1F 8AJ Company No. 03433253 - Sent via the backstage.bbc.co.uk discussion group. To unsubscribe, please visit http://backstage.bbc.co.uk/archives/2005/01/mailing_list.html. Unofficial list archive: http://www.mail-archive.com/backstage@lists.bbc.co.uk/
Re: [backstage] iPad
Sorry, I didn't realise we were back in the 1970s where the software that runs on the iPhone can be called an operating system. And it clearly doesn't have a keyboard. 2010/1/28 Mo McRoberts m...@nevali.net On Thu, Jan 28, 2010 at 08:32, Brian Butterworth briant...@freeview.tv wrote: It does, both, what? it runs an operating system. it has a keyboard. 2010/1/28 Mo McRoberts m...@nevali.net On Thu, Jan 28, 2010 at 08:03, Brian Butterworth briant...@freeview.tv wrote: Underwhelming. It's a big iPhone. It's named after the Star Trek PADD. Might be good it if ran an operating system and had a keyboard. It does, both. - Sent via the backstage.bbc.co.uk discussion group. To unsubscribe, please visit http://backstage.bbc.co.uk/archives/2005/01/mailing_list.html. Unofficial list archive: http://www.mail-archive.com/backstage@lists.bbc.co.uk/ -- Brian Butterworth follow me on twitter: http://twitter.com/briantist web: http://www.ukfree.tv - independent digital television and switchover advice, since 2002 - Sent via the backstage.bbc.co.uk discussion group. To unsubscribe, please visit http://backstage.bbc.co.uk/archives/2005/01/mailing_list.html. Unofficial list archive: http://www.mail-archive.com/backstage@lists.bbc.co.uk/ -- Brian Butterworth follow me on twitter: http://twitter.com/briantist web: http://www.ukfree.tv - independent digital television and switchover advice, since 2002
Re: [backstage] iPad
What else would you call it? An operating system it is. Whether you like it or not is a different matter. It does have an input device which you would fall into the term defined as Keyboard IMO. FWIW I¹m a mac fanboy but the lack of decent interop with other devices, lack of a camera (which would have meant you could buy one for your grandparents to use for video calls to the grandchildren) and the closed nature of the app store submission process means I¹m not even slightly interested. Alun On 28/01/2010 09:56, Brian Butterworth briant...@freeview.tv wrote: Sorry, I didn't realise we were back in the 1970s where the software that runs on the iPhone can be called an operating system. And it clearly doesn't have a keyboard. 2010/1/28 Mo McRoberts m...@nevali.net On Thu, Jan 28, 2010 at 08:32, Brian Butterworth briant...@freeview.tv wrote: It does, both, what? it runs an operating system. it has a keyboard. 2010/1/28 Mo McRoberts m...@nevali.net On Thu, Jan 28, 2010 at 08:03, Brian Butterworth briant...@freeview.tv wrote: Underwhelming. It's a big iPhone. It's named after the Star Trek PADD. Might be good it if ran an operating system and had a keyboard. It does, both. - Sent via the backstage.bbc.co.uk http://backstage.bbc.co.uk discussion group. To unsubscribe, please visit http://backstage.bbc.co.uk/archives/2005/01/mailing_list.html. Unofficial list archive: http://www.mail-archive.com/backstage@lists.bbc.co.uk/ -- Brian Butterworth follow me on twitter: http://twitter.com/briantist web: http://www.ukfree.tv - independent digital television and switchover advice, since 2002 - Sent via the backstage.bbc.co.uk http://backstage.bbc.co.uk discussion group. To unsubscribe, please visit http://backstage.bbc.co.uk/archives/2005/01/mailing_list.html. Unofficial list archive: http://www.mail-archive.com/backstage@lists.bbc.co.uk/ Alun Rowe Pentangle Internet Limited 2 Buttermarket Thame Oxfordshire OX9 3EW Tel: +44 8700 339905 Fax: +44 8700 339906 Please direct all support requests to mailto:it-supp...@pentangle.co.uk Pentangle Internet Limited is a limited company registered in England and Wales. Registered number: 3960918. Registered office: 1 Lauras Close, Great Staughton, Cambridgeshire PE19 5DP This message (and any associated files) is intended only for the use of the individual or entity to which it is addressed and may contain information that is confidential, subject to copyright or constitutes a trade secret. If you are not the intended recipient you are hereby notified that any dissemination, copying or distribution of this message, or files associated with this message, is strictly prohibited. If you have received this message in error, please notify us immediately by replying to the message and deleting it from your computer. Messages sent to and from us may be monitored. Internet communications cannot be guaranteed to be secure or error-free as information could be intercepted, corrupted, lost, destroyed, arrive late or incomplete, or contain viruses. Therefore, we do not accept responsibility for any errors or omissions that are present in this message, or any attachment, that have arisen as a result of e-mail transmission. If verification is required, please request a hard-copy version. Any views or opinions presented are solely those of the author and do not necessarily represent those of the company.
Re: [backstage] iPad
On 28/01/10 09:56, Brian Butterworth wrote: Sorry, I didn't realise we were back in the 1970s where the software that runs on the iPhone can be called an operating system. It's a UNIX. It's a UNIX broken to remove your freedom, but it's still a multi-tasking* memory-protected kernel-based operating system. And it clearly doesn't have a keyboard. It's not a piano... ;-) - Rob. * - Unless you're an application author or a user. See the broken part. - Sent via the backstage.bbc.co.uk discussion group. To unsubscribe, please visit http://backstage.bbc.co.uk/archives/2005/01/mailing_list.html. Unofficial list archive: http://www.mail-archive.com/backstage@lists.bbc.co.uk/
RE: [backstage] iPad
Am I missing something - how is it not an OS? :) From: owner-backst...@lists.bbc.co.uk [mailto:owner-backst...@lists.bbc.co.uk] On Behalf Of Brian Butterworth Sent: 28 January 2010 09:56 To: backstage@lists.bbc.co.uk Subject: Re: [backstage] iPad Sorry, I didn't realise we were back in the 1970s where the software that runs on the iPhone can be called an operating system. And it clearly doesn't have a keyboard. 2010/1/28 Mo McRoberts m...@nevali.net On Thu, Jan 28, 2010 at 08:32, Brian Butterworth briant...@freeview.tv wrote: It does, both, what? it runs an operating system. it has a keyboard. 2010/1/28 Mo McRoberts m...@nevali.net On Thu, Jan 28, 2010 at 08:03, Brian Butterworth briant...@freeview.tv wrote: Underwhelming. It's a big iPhone. It's named after the Star Trek PADD. Might be good it if ran an operating system and had a keyboard. It does, both. - Sent via the backstage.bbc.co.uk discussion group. To unsubscribe, please visit http://backstage.bbc.co.uk/archives/2005/01/mailing_list.html. Unofficial list archive: http://www.mail-archive.com/backstage@lists.bbc.co.uk/ -- Brian Butterworth follow me on twitter: http://twitter.com/briantist web: http://www.ukfree.tv - independent digital television and switchover advice, since 2002 - Sent via the backstage.bbc.co.uk discussion group. To unsubscribe, please visit http://backstage.bbc.co.uk/archives/2005/01/mailing_list.html. Unofficial list archive: http://www.mail-archive.com/backstage@lists.bbc.co.uk/ -- Brian Butterworth follow me on twitter: http://twitter.com/briantist web: http://www.ukfree.tv - independent digital television and switchover advice, since 2002
Re: [backstage] iPad
On Wed, Jan 27, 2010 at 11:37 PM, Mo McRoberts m...@nevali.net wrote: So, what does everyone think? (and how much effect will it have on the video situation over the next 18 months or so, do we reckon?) Would make a very luxurious smart and expensive remote control, or if you stuck legs on it, a very very small multi-touch table. I can imagine flipping thru an EPG / video catalogue on it quite happily, maybe skipping through videos to find the right part before a 'send to the big screen' action... Dan - Sent via the backstage.bbc.co.uk discussion group. To unsubscribe, please visit http://backstage.bbc.co.uk/archives/2005/01/mailing_list.html. Unofficial list archive: http://www.mail-archive.com/backstage@lists.bbc.co.uk/
Re: [backstage] iPad
On Thu, Jan 28, 2010 at 09:56, Brian Butterworth briant...@freeview.tv wrote: Sorry, I didn't realise we were back in the 1970s where the software that runs on the iPhone can be called an operating system. And it clearly doesn't have a keyboard. Not just an operating system, but a very close relative of a commercial UNIX. From what I can tell, iPhone OS isn't far off POSIX-compliant at all (mostly because a lot of userspace utilities are absent). It doesn't have a keyboard built-in, but you can get the keyboard dock, or use a Bluetooth keyboard. There are a lot of people who the iPad won't be right for, and shouldn't buy it -- because if they do, they'll spend all their time bitching and moaning about what it can't do. Lots of people seem to conflate it doesn't do the things I want with it's rubbish (and the same happened with the iPhone, and the same happens with other classes of products), when really that's a huge fallacy; you don't see people complaining that the Nintendo DS doesn't run background applications, or that you can't open a command prompt on the Wii, because they'd probably be laughed at. But, this is the danger in breaking new ground; not necessarily in terms of ideas, but definitely in terms of execution. It's a piece of consumer electronics. A very powerful piece of consumer electronics, but a piece of consumer electronics nonetheless. There's a bloody good reason that Apple scaled up iPhone OS instead of scaling down Mac OS X [again]: the latter is a pain in the backside to turn into something usable by many people. The big target market for the iPad are the people who have never bothered buying a computer (or did, but it's now about eight years old and virus-infested), and actually don't really want one because it's a lot of hassle; the people who type URLs into Google; the people who just want to listen to some music and watch videos, look up web sites, get some e-mail and play some games. Maybe write a letter or two. There isn't a device on the market today which is appropriate for this group of people (despite many attempts over the years), yet it's a pretty huge market. Many power users won't like it, because they think a tablet should be a slimmed-down laptop and be capable (from a UI perspective) of everything a laptop can do: except that in doing that, you kill off any chance of it being appropriate for aforementioned novice market. Apple has pretty successfully demonstrated that iPhone OS is usable by all and sundry, but will have got some pushback that the form factor of the iPhone and iPod touch isn't ideal for some kinds of pretty common and ordinary activities. While it's useful to be able to read your e-mail on a device the size of the iPhone, composing a long e-mail is a pain (hardware keyboard or not). The same applies to lots of other things. This is where the iPad fits in. There are changes afoot in the OS - baby steps, but 3.2's just a point release, and in that context there's a lot to be positive about. Developers are going to have a field day with it, and there's a decent chance that the iPad will kill off a lot of the more frivolous App Store apps. Personally, and this seems to be a view shared by lots of people (though I wouldn't claim it to be the majority), there are plenty of occasions where I don't need the grunt of a laptop, and it's actually not all that convenient to open it up to do stuff, but a small-form-factor device is a less than ideal. I may be a developer, a sysadmin and a power users, but I'm often just an ordinary end-user and want to browse the web or play some games without having to faff around, and that's with the proviso that I don't have to do much faffing as it is (it's still more than it should be). It's a device which can be left on a coffee table and be unobtrusive, until you want to see the TV schedules for the next seven days. As much as many of us currently do reach for our laptops or smartphones to do just that, you'd be hard pressed to argue that a middle-ground between the convenience of a smartphone (which you can just pick up and put down when needed) and the useful size of a laptop screen isn't something a lot of people wouldn't buy into, quite possibly in preference to either of them. I expect we'll see plenty of applications appearing as it starts to sell, too: similar things happened with the iPhone, as developers started to explore what's possible. Now, for the (again) power user group, there's lots of stuff which could be transposed onto a different device - there's nothing particularly iPad-specific about having a cool newspaper app with embedded video, for example, but the competing devices aren't here yet. I doubt it'll be long before some start to appear, though, with varying degrees of success (and there's always Microsoft's second tablet push, which may or may not be more successful than the first). M. - Sent via the backstage.bbc.co.uk discussion group. To unsubscribe, please visit
Re: [backstage] iPad
It is an OS. It just doesn't allow you to do all the stuff that us power users (and I would suggest membership of this list marks someone out as such) want to do. The closed app ecosystem is similarly only really an issue for us. I suspect a bigger issue for your normal user will be the lack of Flash on it. They keyboard thing is a red herring. It doesn't have a physical keyboard - that hasn't been a problem on the iPhone for me and hasn't been a problem for anyone I know who actually has actually used the iPhone keyboard. Some people just have hangups about it. I agree with what others have said - the biggest problem I can see is that lack of a front facing camera. Using it for video chatting would have been awesome and made it pretty much perfect for grandparents. Alex On 28 Jan 2010, at 10:17, Daniel Morris wrote: Am I missing something - how is it not an OS? :) From: owner-backst...@lists.bbc.co.uk [mailto:owner-backst...@lists.bbc.co.uk] On Behalf Of Brian Butterworth Sent: 28 January 2010 09:56 To: backstage@lists.bbc.co.uk Subject: Re: [backstage] iPad Sorry, I didn't realise we were back in the 1970s where the software that runs on the iPhone can be called an operating system. And it clearly doesn't have a keyboard. 2010/1/28 Mo McRoberts m...@nevali.net On Thu, Jan 28, 2010 at 08:32, Brian Butterworth briant...@freeview.tv wrote: It does, both, what? it runs an operating system. it has a keyboard. 2010/1/28 Mo McRoberts m...@nevali.net On Thu, Jan 28, 2010 at 08:03, Brian Butterworth briant...@freeview.tv wrote: Underwhelming. It's a big iPhone. It's named after the Star Trek PADD. Might be good it if ran an operating system and had a keyboard. It does, both. - Sent via the backstage.bbc.co.uk discussion group. To unsubscribe, please visit http://backstage.bbc.co.uk/archives/2005/01/mailing_list.html. Unofficial list archive: http://www.mail-archive.com/backstage@lists.bbc.co.uk/ -- Brian Butterworth follow me on twitter: http://twitter.com/briantist web: http://www.ukfree.tv - independent digital television and switchover advice, since 2002 - Sent via the backstage.bbc.co.uk discussion group. To unsubscribe, please visit http://backstage.bbc.co.uk/archives/2005/01/mailing_list.html. Unofficial list archive: http://www.mail-archive.com/backstage@lists.bbc.co.uk/ -- Brian Butterworth follow me on twitter: http://twitter.com/briantist web: http://www.ukfree.tv - independent digital television and switchover advice, since 2002
Re: [backstage] iPad
I'm interested to see if the keyboard on the iPad will actually be worse than the one on the iPhone - something I won't really know till I get a chance to hold one. At least with the iPhone, I can easily hold it in one hand, whilst still being able to type using my thumb in that hand. To hold the iPad comfortably, am I going to have to lose the use of one hand which I could otherwise be typing with? At least they have that keyboard dock - though I wonder what the cost of that will be. Lee On 28 January 2010 10:28, Alex Mace a...@hollytree.co.uk wrote: It is an OS. It just doesn't allow you to do all the stuff that us power users (and I would suggest membership of this list marks someone out as such) want to do. The closed app ecosystem is similarly only really an issue for us. I suspect a bigger issue for your normal user will be the lack of Flash on it. They keyboard thing is a red herring. It doesn't have a physical keyboard - that hasn't been a problem on the iPhone for me and hasn't been a problem for anyone I know who actually has actually used the iPhone keyboard. Some people just have hangups about it. I agree with what others have said - the biggest problem I can see is that lack of a front facing camera. Using it for video chatting would have been awesome and made it pretty much perfect for grandparents. Alex On 28 Jan 2010, at 10:17, Daniel Morris wrote: Am I missing something - how is it not an OS? :) -- *From:* owner-backst...@lists.bbc.co.uk [mailto: owner-backst...@lists.bbc.co.uk] *On Behalf Of *Brian Butterworth *Sent:* 28 January 2010 09:56 *To:* backstage@lists.bbc.co.uk *Subject:* Re: [backstage] iPad Sorry, I didn't realise we were back in the 1970s where the software that runs on the iPhone can be called an operating system. And it clearly doesn't have a keyboard. 2010/1/28 Mo McRoberts m...@nevali.net On Thu, Jan 28, 2010 at 08:32, Brian Butterworth briant...@freeview.tv wrote: It does, both, what? it runs an operating system. it has a keyboard. 2010/1/28 Mo McRoberts m...@nevali.net On Thu, Jan 28, 2010 at 08:03, Brian Butterworth briant...@freeview.tv wrote: Underwhelming. It's a big iPhone. It's named after the Star Trek PADD. Might be good it if ran an operating system and had a keyboard. It does, both. - Sent via the backstage.bbc.co.uk discussion group. To unsubscribe, please visit http://backstage.bbc.co.uk/archives/2005/01/mailing_list.html. Unofficial list archive: http://www.mail-archive.com/backstage@lists.bbc.co.uk/ -- Brian Butterworth follow me on twitter: http://twitter.com/briantist web: http://www.ukfree.tv - independent digital television and switchover advice, since 2002 - Sent via the backstage.bbc.co.uk discussion group. To unsubscribe, please visit http://backstage.bbc.co.uk/archives/2005/01/mailing_list.html. Unofficial list archive: http://www.mail-archive.com/backstage@lists.bbc.co.uk/ -- Brian Butterworth follow me on twitter: http://twitter.com/briantist web: http://www.ukfree.tv - independent digital television and switchover advice, since 2002
RE: [backstage] iPad
It doesn't look like anything new to me. Mind you, it's certainly not designed for me, or anyone else who wants to work on their computer. I've been trialling a tablet PC for the last few months. It looks nice, you can write on the screen, the handwriting recognition is amazing, it has Vista and a proper keyboard. You can swivel the screen and use it as a normal laptop. However, I find for 99% of purposes I use it as a laptop. I did take notes a few times with it, but I preferred pen and paper. The ergonomics are terrible. The way you either have to crouch over a tablet on a table, balance it on your legs or hold it up to use make it pretty terrible for movies. This is probably even worse if you have to hold and type. I guess they'll be a good aftermarket for stands, keyboards etc. Cheers, Andy -Original Message- From: owner-backst...@lists.bbc.co.uk [mailto:owner- backst...@lists.bbc.co.uk] On Behalf Of Mo McRoberts Sent: 27 January 2010 22:38 To: backstage@lists.bbc.co.uk Subject: [backstage] iPad So, what does everyone think? (and how much effect will it have on the video situation over the next 18 months or so, do we reckon?) M. - Sent via the backstage.bbc.co.uk discussion group. To unsubscribe, please visit http://backstage.bbc.co.uk/archives/2005/01/mailing_list.html. Unofficial list archive: http://www.mail- archive.com/backstage@lists.bbc.co.uk/ - Sent via the backstage.bbc.co.uk discussion group. To unsubscribe, please visit http://backstage.bbc.co.uk/archives/2005/01/mailing_list.html. Unofficial list archive: http://www.mail-archive.com/backstage@lists.bbc.co.uk/
Re: [backstage] iPad
2010/1/28 Daniel Morris daniel.mor...@bbc.co.uk: Sorry, I didn't realise we were back in the 1970s where the software that runs on the iPhone can be called an operating system. Am I missing something - how is it not an OS? :) Apple actively oppose you installing whatever you want to, and running applications in the background, on the iPhone and now on the iPad. These are features of any respectable operating system since the 70s. If you own your computer, it ought to be under your control. Apple computers are not. The ultimate answer is 100% free software. - Sent via the backstage.bbc.co.uk discussion group. To unsubscribe, please visit http://backstage.bbc.co.uk/archives/2005/01/mailing_list.html. Unofficial list archive: http://www.mail-archive.com/backstage@lists.bbc.co.uk/
Re: [backstage] iPad
On Thu, Jan 28, 2010 at 11:49, Dave Crossland d...@lab6.com wrote: 2010/1/28 Daniel Morris daniel.mor...@bbc.co.uk: Sorry, I didn't realise we were back in the 1970s where the software that runs on the iPhone can be called an operating system. Am I missing something - how is it not an OS? :) Apple actively oppose you installing whatever you want to, and running applications in the background, on the iPhone and now on the iPad. These are features of any respectable operating system since the 70s. No, these are features of any operating system designed for use by computer users. If you own your computer, it ought to be under your control. Apple computers are not. The ultimate answer is 100% free software. The same applies to your car, central heating system, ADSL router, Freeview box, TV and most mobile phones... and while a laudable goal, the people who won't buy one of those things for this reason is in the minority, principally because a) you need to find someone to actually make the thing and sell it at a reasonable price, and b) the alternatives often aren't that good (in other words, the freedom is a great big trade-off). Point of note, though, it's a computer in the technical sense, in the same way that all mobile phones are computers. Really, though, it's CE. Adjust expectations accordingly. What it isn't, and specifically isn't claimed to be (though lots of people would certainly like one) is a tablet-form-factor Mac. M. - Sent via the backstage.bbc.co.uk discussion group. To unsubscribe, please visit http://backstage.bbc.co.uk/archives/2005/01/mailing_list.html. Unofficial list archive: http://www.mail-archive.com/backstage@lists.bbc.co.uk/
Re: [backstage] iPad
All good points. I'm sitting here inside a university thinking that this is a potentially really useful device. There was nothing hugely unexpected, though I'm a touch disappointed at the lack of a camera or SD card slot. The lack of Flash so far is also still an issue, but may not be forever - I think it's only a matter of time before the pressure to introduce it becomes too great to resist. I think Apple's key problem is security (see OS X 10.6.1) However, the software side is more interesting. And the fact that the book formats make it much easier for us to publish materials to this format. The other thing is that much of the OS underpinnings have not really been talked about, so how iPhoneOS 4 and the next iteration of the iPad software will change things is anyone's guess. I'm also agnostic about the keyboard. The keyboard on my iPod Touch is better than I expected but two-handed typing is not going to be all that easy. It seems that more handwriting and finger based stuff will be possible. The Brushes demo was interesting for this reason. I am a power user and, though I'm not a rabid Apple fanboy, I really can see myself using one of these things. I really think there will be a market there, but it will take a little time to grow. And, let's be honest, Apple are not struggling financially, so they can (like with Apple TV), afford to sit on it and wait to see what develops Å 28/01/2010 10:29, Mo McRoberts m...@nevali.net a écrit: On Thu, Jan 28, 2010 at 09:56, Brian Butterworth briant...@freeview.tv wrote: Sorry, I didn't realise we were back in the 1970s where the software that runs on the iPhone can be called an operating system. And it clearly doesn't have a keyboard. Not just an operating system, but a very close relative of a commercial UNIX. From what I can tell, iPhone OS isn't far off POSIX-compliant at all (mostly because a lot of userspace utilities are absent). It doesn't have a keyboard built-in, but you can get the keyboard dock, or use a Bluetooth keyboard. There are a lot of people who the iPad won't be right for, and shouldn't buy it -- because if they do, they'll spend all their time bitching and moaning about what it can't do. Lots of people seem to conflate it doesn't do the things I want with it's rubbish (and the same happened with the iPhone, and the same happens with other classes of products), when really that's a huge fallacy; you don't see people complaining that the Nintendo DS doesn't run background applications, or that you can't open a command prompt on the Wii, because they'd probably be laughed at. But, this is the danger in breaking new ground; not necessarily in terms of ideas, but definitely in terms of execution. It's a piece of consumer electronics. A very powerful piece of consumer electronics, but a piece of consumer electronics nonetheless. There's a bloody good reason that Apple scaled up iPhone OS instead of scaling down Mac OS X [again]: the latter is a pain in the backside to turn into something usable by many people. The big target market for the iPad are the people who have never bothered buying a computer (or did, but it's now about eight years old and virus-infested), and actually don't really want one because it's a lot of hassle; the people who type URLs into Google; the people who just want to listen to some music and watch videos, look up web sites, get some e-mail and play some games. Maybe write a letter or two. There isn't a device on the market today which is appropriate for this group of people (despite many attempts over the years), yet it's a pretty huge market. Many power users won't like it, because they think a tablet should be a slimmed-down laptop and be capable (from a UI perspective) of everything a laptop can do: except that in doing that, you kill off any chance of it being appropriate for aforementioned novice market. Apple has pretty successfully demonstrated that iPhone OS is usable by all and sundry, but will have got some pushback that the form factor of the iPhone and iPod touch isn't ideal for some kinds of pretty common and ordinary activities. While it's useful to be able to read your e-mail on a device the size of the iPhone, composing a long e-mail is a pain (hardware keyboard or not). The same applies to lots of other things. This is where the iPad fits in. There are changes afoot in the OS - baby steps, but 3.2's just a point release, and in that context there's a lot to be positive about. Developers are going to have a field day with it, and there's a decent chance that the iPad will kill off a lot of the more frivolous App Store apps. Personally, and this seems to be a view shared by lots of people (though I wouldn't claim it to be the majority), there are plenty of occasions where I don't need the grunt of a laptop, and it's actually not all that convenient to open it up to do stuff, but a small-form-factor device is a less than
Re: [backstage] iPad
I think the no-Flash means that it a seriously crippled web browser. Hardly the best way to browse the internet, and thus will be a serious disappointment, not only to power users, but to casual internet surfers as well. The no-camera thing just screams wait for the second generation before you buy one - Original Message - From: owner-backst...@lists.bbc.co.uk owner-backst...@lists.bbc.co.uk To: backstage@lists.bbc.co.uk backstage@lists.bbc.co.uk Sent: Thu Jan 28 07:03:32 2010 Subject: Re: [backstage] iPad On Thu, Jan 28, 2010 at 11:49, Dave Crossland d...@lab6.com wrote: 2010/1/28 Daniel Morris daniel.mor...@bbc.co.uk: Sorry, I didn't realise we were back in the 1970s where the software that runs on the iPhone can be called an operating system. Am I missing something - how is it not an OS? :) Apple actively oppose you installing whatever you want to, and running applications in the background, on the iPhone and now on the iPad. These are features of any respectable operating system since the 70s. No, these are features of any operating system designed for use by computer users. If you own your computer, it ought to be under your control. Apple computers are not. The ultimate answer is 100% free software. The same applies to your car, central heating system, ADSL router, Freeview box, TV and most mobile phones... and while a laudable goal, the people who won't buy one of those things for this reason is in the minority, principally because a) you need to find someone to actually make the thing and sell it at a reasonable price, and b) the alternatives often aren't that good (in other words, the freedom is a great big trade-off). Point of note, though, it's a computer in the technical sense, in the same way that all mobile phones are computers. Really, though, it's CE. Adjust expectations accordingly. What it isn't, and specifically isn't claimed to be (though lots of people would certainly like one) is a tablet-form-factor Mac. M. - Sent via the backstage.bbc.co.uk discussion group. To unsubscribe, please visit http://backstage.bbc.co.uk/archives/2005/01/mailing_list.html. Unofficial list archive: http://www.mail-archive.com/backstage@lists.bbc.co.uk/ This e-mail (and any attachments) is confidential and may contain personal views which are not the views of the BBC unless specifically stated. If you have received it in error, please delete it from your system. Do not use, copy or disclose the information in any way nor act in reliance on it and notify the sender immediately. Please note that the BBC monitors e-mails sent or received. Further communication will signify your consent to this
Re: [backstage] iPad
Some useful context on the Apple / Flash debate: daringfireball.net/2010/01/apple_adobe_flash Phil On Thu, Jan 28, 2010 at 12:20 PM, Michael Kraskin michael.kras...@bbc.comwrote: I think the no-Flash means that it a seriously crippled web browser. Hardly the best way to browse the internet, and thus will be a serious disappointment, not only to power users, but to casual internet surfers as well. The no-camera thing just screams wait for the second generation before you buy one - Original Message - From: owner-backst...@lists.bbc.co.uk owner-backst...@lists.bbc.co.uk To: backstage@lists.bbc.co.uk backstage@lists.bbc.co.uk Sent: Thu Jan 28 07:03:32 2010 Subject: Re: [backstage] iPad On Thu, Jan 28, 2010 at 11:49, Dave Crossland d...@lab6.com wrote: 2010/1/28 Daniel Morris daniel.mor...@bbc.co.uk: Sorry, I didn't realise we were back in the 1970s where the software that runs on the iPhone can be called an operating system. Am I missing something - how is it not an OS? :) Apple actively oppose you installing whatever you want to, and running applications in the background, on the iPhone and now on the iPad. These are features of any respectable operating system since the 70s. No, these are features of any operating system designed for use by computer users. If you own your computer, it ought to be under your control. Apple computers are not. The ultimate answer is 100% free software. The same applies to your car, central heating system, ADSL router, Freeview box, TV and most mobile phones... and while a laudable goal, the people who won't buy one of those things for this reason is in the minority, principally because a) you need to find someone to actually make the thing and sell it at a reasonable price, and b) the alternatives often aren't that good (in other words, the freedom is a great big trade-off). Point of note, though, it's a computer in the technical sense, in the same way that all mobile phones are computers. Really, though, it's CE. Adjust expectations accordingly. What it isn't, and specifically isn't claimed to be (though lots of people would certainly like one) is a tablet-form-factor Mac. M. - Sent via the backstage.bbc.co.uk discussion group. To unsubscribe, please visit http://backstage.bbc.co.uk/archives/2005/01/mailing_list.html. Unofficial list archive: http://www.mail-archive.com/backstage@lists.bbc.co.uk/ This e-mail (and any attachments) is confidential and may contain personal views which are not the views of the BBC unless specifically stated. If you have received it in error, please delete it from your system. Do not use, copy or disclose the information in any way nor act in reliance on it and notify the sender immediately. Please note that the BBC monitors e-mails sent or received. Further communication will signify your consent to this -- http://philwhitehouse.blogspot.com
Re: [backstage] iPad
Dan Brickley wrote: On Wed, Jan 27, 2010 at 11:37 PM, Mo McRoberts m...@nevali.net wrote: So, what does everyone think? Would make a very luxurious smart and expensive remote control, or if you stuck legs on it, a very very small multi-touch table. Apparently that's not all it does: http://rah.posterous.com/apple-ipad-commercial-1 -- Don't worry, you'll be fine; I saw it work in a cartoon once... - Sent via the backstage.bbc.co.uk discussion group. To unsubscribe, please visit http://backstage.bbc.co.uk/archives/2005/01/mailing_list.html. Unofficial list archive: http://www.mail-archive.com/backstage@lists.bbc.co.uk/
Re: [backstage] iPad
On Thu, Jan 28, 2010 at 12:20, Michael Kraskin michael.kras...@bbc.com wrote: I think the no-Flash means that it a seriously crippled web browser. Hardly the best way to browse the internet, and thus will be a serious disappointment, not only to power users, but to casual internet surfers as well. As a user, the lack of Flash won't affect me much, if at all. fewer ads, and that's about it. The kids won't get near it, as CBeebies appears to be built almost entirely in Flash (much the same with Club Penguin), but I can't say I'd consider them not wanting to get their grubby fingers on it a bad thing (though there are plenty of games in the App Store they'd like instead). As a web developer, I can't remember the last time web developers influenced browsers and not the other way around. Can't see that one changing any time soon: if the iPad is successful, websites will stop relying on Flash being ubiquitous (either degrading where Flash isn't present, or doing something else entirely), assuming they and the iPad share customer demographics. The no-camera thing just screams wait for the second generation before you buy one Why on earth would you want a camera on a device whose form factor is utterly opposed to the hold-up-point-and-shoot facilities in mobile phones which made digital photography mainstream? Not saying you're wrong, just that I can't fathom it. M. - Sent via the backstage.bbc.co.uk discussion group. To unsubscribe, please visit http://backstage.bbc.co.uk/archives/2005/01/mailing_list.html. Unofficial list archive: http://www.mail-archive.com/backstage@lists.bbc.co.uk/
RE: [backstage] iPad
Put Jellycar and Doodlejump on it and you will never see it again... Rupert Watson +44 7787 554 801 www.root6.com -Original Message- From: owner-backst...@lists.bbc.co.uk [mailto:owner-backst...@lists.bbc.co.uk] On Behalf Of Mo McRoberts Sent: 28 January 2010 12:56 To: backstage@lists.bbc.co.uk Subject: Re: [backstage] iPad On Thu, Jan 28, 2010 at 12:20, Michael Kraskin michael.kras...@bbc.com wrote: I think the no-Flash means that it a seriously crippled web browser. Hardly the best way to browse the internet, and thus will be a serious disappointment, not only to power users, but to casual internet surfers as well. As a user, the lack of Flash won't affect me much, if at all. fewer ads, and that's about it. The kids won't get near it, as CBeebies appears to be built almost entirely in Flash (much the same with Club Penguin), but I can't say I'd consider them not wanting to get their grubby fingers on it a bad thing (though there are plenty of games in the App Store they'd like instead). As a web developer, I can't remember the last time web developers influenced browsers and not the other way around. Can't see that one changing any time soon: if the iPad is successful, websites will stop relying on Flash being ubiquitous (either degrading where Flash isn't present, or doing something else entirely), assuming they and the iPad share customer demographics. The no-camera thing just screams wait for the second generation before you buy one Why on earth would you want a camera on a device whose form factor is utterly opposed to the hold-up-point-and-shoot facilities in mobile phones which made digital photography mainstream? Not saying you're wrong, just that I can't fathom it. M. - Sent via the backstage.bbc.co.uk discussion group. To unsubscribe, please visit http://backstage.bbc.co.uk/archives/2005/01/mailing_list.html. Unofficial list archive: http://www.mail-archive.com/backstage@lists.bbc.co.uk/ __ This email has been scanned by the MessageLabs Email Security System. For more information please visit http://www.messagelabs.com/email __ ROOT 6 LIMITED Registered in the UK at 4 WARDOUR MEWS, LONDON W1F 8AJ Company No. 03433253 - Sent via the backstage.bbc.co.uk discussion group. To unsubscribe, please visit http://backstage.bbc.co.uk/archives/2005/01/mailing_list.html. Unofficial list archive: http://www.mail-archive.com/backstage@lists.bbc.co.uk/
Re: [backstage] iPad
Re camera, I want it for the exact same reason every single apple laptop has one. Not point and shoot, but video chat. And if developers do change because of this, that's great, and perhaps then it will make sense to buy one. - Original Message - From: owner-backst...@lists.bbc.co.uk owner-backst...@lists.bbc.co.uk To: backstage@lists.bbc.co.uk backstage@lists.bbc.co.uk Sent: Thu Jan 28 07:56:06 2010 Subject: Re: [backstage] iPad On Thu, Jan 28, 2010 at 12:20, Michael Kraskin michael.kras...@bbc.com wrote: I think the no-Flash means that it a seriously crippled web browser. Hardly the best way to browse the internet, and thus will be a serious disappointment, not only to power users, but to casual internet surfers as well. As a user, the lack of Flash won't affect me much, if at all. fewer ads, and that's about it. The kids won't get near it, as CBeebies appears to be built almost entirely in Flash (much the same with Club Penguin), but I can't say I'd consider them not wanting to get their grubby fingers on it a bad thing (though there are plenty of games in the App Store they'd like instead). As a web developer, I can't remember the last time web developers influenced browsers and not the other way around. Can't see that one changing any time soon: if the iPad is successful, websites will stop relying on Flash being ubiquitous (either degrading where Flash isn't present, or doing something else entirely), assuming they and the iPad share customer demographics. The no-camera thing just screams wait for the second generation before you buy one Why on earth would you want a camera on a device whose form factor is utterly opposed to the hold-up-point-and-shoot facilities in mobile phones which made digital photography mainstream? Not saying you're wrong, just that I can't fathom it. M. - Sent via the backstage.bbc.co.uk discussion group. To unsubscribe, please visit http://backstage.bbc.co.uk/archives/2005/01/mailing_list.html. Unofficial list archive: http://www.mail-archive.com/backstage@lists.bbc.co.uk/ This e-mail (and any attachments) is confidential and may contain personal views which are not the views of the BBC unless specifically stated. If you have received it in error, please delete it from your system. Do not use, copy or disclose the information in any way nor act in reliance on it and notify the sender immediately. Please note that the BBC monitors e-mails sent or received. Further communication will signify your consent to this
RE: [backstage] iPad
I can see why they didn’t put a camera on it. Who’s going to be bother holding the thing still enough to enable decent chat? It would be a nightmare to try and hold it out in front of your face and even worse for the person getting motion sickness on the other end. From: owner-backst...@lists.bbc.co.uk [mailto:owner-backst...@lists.bbc.co.uk] On Behalf Of Michael Kraskin Sent: 28 January 2010 13:28 To: backstage@lists.bbc.co.uk Subject: Re: [backstage] iPad Re camera, I want it for the exact same reason every single apple laptop has one. Not point and shoot, but video chat. And if developers do change because of this, that's great, and perhaps then it will make sense to buy one. - Original Message - From: owner-backst...@lists.bbc.co.uk owner-backst...@lists.bbc.co.uk To: backstage@lists.bbc.co.uk backstage@lists.bbc.co.uk Sent: Thu Jan 28 07:56:06 2010 Subject: Re: [backstage] iPad On Thu, Jan 28, 2010 at 12:20, Michael Kraskin michael.kras...@bbc.com wrote: I think the no-Flash means that it a seriously crippled web browser. Hardly the best way to browse the internet, and thus will be a serious disappointment, not only to power users, but to casual internet surfers as well. As a user, the lack of Flash won't affect me much, if at all. fewer ads, and that's about it. The kids won't get near it, as CBeebies appears to be built almost entirely in Flash (much the same with Club Penguin), but I can't say I'd consider them not wanting to get their grubby fingers on it a bad thing (though there are plenty of games in the App Store they'd like instead). As a web developer, I can't remember the last time web developers influenced browsers and not the other way around. Can't see that one changing any time soon: if the iPad is successful, websites will stop relying on Flash being ubiquitous (either degrading where Flash isn't present, or doing something else entirely), assuming they and the iPad share customer demographics. The no-camera thing just screams wait for the second generation before you buy one Why on earth would you want a camera on a device whose form factor is utterly opposed to the hold-up-point-and-shoot facilities in mobile phones which made digital photography mainstream? Not saying you're wrong, just that I can't fathom it. M. - Sent via the backstage.bbc.co.uk discussion group. To unsubscribe, please visit http://backstage.bbc.co.uk/archives/2005/01/mailing_list.html. Unofficial list archive: http://www.mail-archive.com/backstage@lists.bbc.co.uk/ This e-mail (and any attachments) is confidential and may contain personal views which are not the views of the BBC unless specifically stated. If you have received it in error, please delete it from your system. Do not use, copy or disclose the information in any way nor act in reliance on it and notify the sender immediately. Please note that the BBC monitors e-mails sent or received. Further communication will signify your consent to this
Re: [backstage] iPad
I'd agree to a gentleman's wager that the second generation will have a front facing camera and a native application just for this purpose. - Original Message - From: owner-backst...@lists.bbc.co.uk owner-backst...@lists.bbc.co.uk To: backstage@lists.bbc.co.uk backstage@lists.bbc.co.uk Sent: Thu Jan 28 08:37:23 2010 Subject: RE: [backstage] iPad I can see why they didn’t put a camera on it. Who’s going to be bother holding the thing still enough to enable decent chat? It would be a nightmare to try and hold it out in front of your face and even worse for the person getting motion sickness on the other end. From: owner-backst...@lists.bbc.co.uk [mailto:owner-backst...@lists.bbc.co.uk] On Behalf Of Michael Kraskin Sent: 28 January 2010 13:28 To: backstage@lists.bbc.co.uk Subject: Re: [backstage] iPad Re camera, I want it for the exact same reason every single apple laptop has one. Not point and shoot, but video chat. And if developers do change because of this, that's great, and perhaps then it will make sense to buy one. - Original Message - From: owner-backst...@lists.bbc.co.uk owner-backst...@lists.bbc.co.uk To: backstage@lists.bbc.co.uk backstage@lists.bbc.co.uk Sent: Thu Jan 28 07:56:06 2010 Subject: Re: [backstage] iPad On Thu, Jan 28, 2010 at 12:20, Michael Kraskin michael.kras...@bbc.com wrote: I think the no-Flash means that it a seriously crippled web browser. Hardly the best way to browse the internet, and thus will be a serious disappointment, not only to power users, but to casual internet surfers as well. As a user, the lack of Flash won't affect me much, if at all. fewer ads, and that's about it. The kids won't get near it, as CBeebies appears to be built almost entirely in Flash (much the same with Club Penguin), but I can't say I'd consider them not wanting to get their grubby fingers on it a bad thing (though there are plenty of games in the App Store they'd like instead). As a web developer, I can't remember the last time web developers influenced browsers and not the other way around. Can't see that one changing any time soon: if the iPad is successful, websites will stop relying on Flash being ubiquitous (either degrading where Flash isn't present, or doing something else entirely), assuming they and the iPad share customer demographics. The no-camera thing just screams wait for the second generation before you buy one Why on earth would you want a camera on a device whose form factor is utterly opposed to the hold-up-point-and-shoot facilities in mobile phones which made digital photography mainstream? Not saying you're wrong, just that I can't fathom it. M. - Sent via the backstage.bbc.co.uk discussion group. To unsubscribe, please visit http://backstage.bbc.co.uk/archives/2005/01/mailing_list.html. Unofficial list archive: http://www.mail-archive.com/backstage@lists.bbc.co.uk/ This e-mail (and any attachments) is confidential and may contain personal views which are not the views of the BBC unless specifically stated. If you have received it in error, please delete it from your system. Do not use, copy or disclose the information in any way nor act in reliance on it and notify the sender immediately. Please note that the BBC monitors e-mails sent or received. Further communication will signify your consent to this
RE: [backstage] iPad
The lack of a camera (or two, 1 forward and 1 backward facing) is a shame for augmented reality apps as well chat, it would have been good to see what people could have done here, especially as we’ve already seen good stuff using GPS and Q-codes on the iphone. From: owner-backst...@lists.bbc.co.uk [mailto:owner-backst...@lists.bbc.co.uk] On Behalf Of Andrew Macinnes Sent: 28 January 2010 13:37 To: backstage@lists.bbc.co.uk Subject: RE: [backstage] iPad I can see why they didn’t put a camera on it. Who’s going to be bother holding the thing still enough to enable decent chat? It would be a nightmare to try and hold it out in front of your face and even worse for the person getting motion sickness on the other end. From: owner-backst...@lists.bbc.co.uk [mailto:owner-backst...@lists.bbc.co.uk] On Behalf Of Michael Kraskin Sent: 28 January 2010 13:28 To: backstage@lists.bbc.co.uk Subject: Re: [backstage] iPad Re camera, I want it for the exact same reason every single apple laptop has one. Not point and shoot, but video chat. And if developers do change because of this, that's great, and perhaps then it will make sense to buy one. - Original Message - From: owner-backst...@lists.bbc.co.uk owner-backst...@lists.bbc.co.uk To: backstage@lists.bbc.co.uk backstage@lists.bbc.co.uk Sent: Thu Jan 28 07:56:06 2010 Subject: Re: [backstage] iPad On Thu, Jan 28, 2010 at 12:20, Michael Kraskin michael.kras...@bbc.com wrote: I think the no-Flash means that it a seriously crippled web browser. Hardly the best way to browse the internet, and thus will be a serious disappointment, not only to power users, but to casual internet surfers as well. As a user, the lack of Flash won't affect me much, if at all. fewer ads, and that's about it. The kids won't get near it, as CBeebies appears to be built almost entirely in Flash (much the same with Club Penguin), but I can't say I'd consider them not wanting to get their grubby fingers on it a bad thing (though there are plenty of games in the App Store they'd like instead). As a web developer, I can't remember the last time web developers influenced browsers and not the other way around. Can't see that one changing any time soon: if the iPad is successful, websites will stop relying on Flash being ubiquitous (either degrading where Flash isn't present, or doing something else entirely), assuming they and the iPad share customer demographics. The no-camera thing just screams wait for the second generation before you buy one Why on earth would you want a camera on a device whose form factor is utterly opposed to the hold-up-point-and-shoot facilities in mobile phones which made digital photography mainstream? Not saying you're wrong, just that I can't fathom it. M. - Sent via the backstage.bbc.co.uk discussion group. To unsubscribe, please visit http://backstage.bbc.co.uk/archives/2005/01/mailing_list.html. Unofficial list archive: http://www.mail-archive.com/backstage@lists.bbc.co.uk/ This e-mail (and any attachments) is confidential and may contain personal views which are not the views of the BBC unless specifically stated. If you have received it in error, please delete it from your system. Do not use, copy or disclose the information in any way nor act in reliance on it and notify the sender immediately. Please note that the BBC monitors e-mails sent or received. Further communication will signify your consent to this
Re: [backstage] iPad
On Wed, Jan 27, 2010 at 22:37, Mo McRoberts m...@nevali.net wrote: So, what does everyone think? It's very pretty, but I think it represents one of the more significant moments in Apple's transition from computer company to rich-media toy company. Which is great and all, but for the things I do, I use computers, not rich media toys. A quote from Apple COO Tim Cook: We believe that we need to own and control the primary technologies behind the products we make Err, no thanks. No more Macs. I'm done feeding this beast - for the same reason I was done feeding the Microsoft beast a few years ago. I'm not sure what I do now. I'll continue using the Mac I have until it needs replacing. Then whatever I get won't be a Mac. If Linux still doesn't quite fit, I'll hack together a Hackintosh. I'm hoping that in the next year or two, I can finally move over to the open source Promised Land. ;) See http://tommorris.org/wiki/Things_preventing_me_from_moving_to_Linux_full_time -- Tom Morris http://tommorris.org/ - Sent via the backstage.bbc.co.uk discussion group. To unsubscribe, please visit http://backstage.bbc.co.uk/archives/2005/01/mailing_list.html. Unofficial list archive: http://www.mail-archive.com/backstage@lists.bbc.co.uk/
RE: [backstage] iPad
heh, we have a virtual steadicam system in RD that could address this problem (the motion sickness thing)... has anyone got Steve Jobs' phone number? From: owner-backst...@lists.bbc.co.uk [mailto:owner-backst...@lists.bbc.co.uk] On Behalf Of Michael Kraskin Sent: 28 January 2010 13:49 To: backstage@lists.bbc.co.uk Subject: Re: [backstage] iPad I'd agree to a gentleman's wager that the second generation will have a front facing camera and a native application just for this purpose. - Original Message - From: owner-backst...@lists.bbc.co.uk owner-backst...@lists.bbc.co.uk To: backstage@lists.bbc.co.uk backstage@lists.bbc.co.uk Sent: Thu Jan 28 08:37:23 2010 Subject: RE: [backstage] iPad I can see why they didn't put a camera on it. Who's going to be bother holding the thing still enough to enable decent chat? It would be a nightmare to try and hold it out in front of your face and even worse for the person getting motion sickness on the other end. From: owner-backst...@lists.bbc.co.uk [mailto:owner-backst...@lists.bbc.co.uk] On Behalf Of Michael Kraskin Sent: 28 January 2010 13:28 To: backstage@lists.bbc.co.uk Subject: Re: [backstage] iPad Re camera, I want it for the exact same reason every single apple laptop has one. Not point and shoot, but video chat. And if developers do change because of this, that's great, and perhaps then it will make sense to buy one. - Original Message - From: owner-backst...@lists.bbc.co.uk owner-backst...@lists.bbc.co.uk To: backstage@lists.bbc.co.uk backstage@lists.bbc.co.uk Sent: Thu Jan 28 07:56:06 2010 Subject: Re: [backstage] iPad On Thu, Jan 28, 2010 at 12:20, Michael Kraskin michael.kras...@bbc.com wrote: I think the no-Flash means that it a seriously crippled web browser. Hardly the best way to browse the internet, and thus will be a serious disappointment, not only to power users, but to casual internet surfers as well. As a user, the lack of Flash won't affect me much, if at all. fewer ads, and that's about it. The kids won't get near it, as CBeebies appears to be built almost entirely in Flash (much the same with Club Penguin), but I can't say I'd consider them not wanting to get their grubby fingers on it a bad thing (though there are plenty of games in the App Store they'd like instead). As a web developer, I can't remember the last time web developers influenced browsers and not the other way around. Can't see that one changing any time soon: if the iPad is successful, websites will stop relying on Flash being ubiquitous (either degrading where Flash isn't present, or doing something else entirely), assuming they and the iPad share customer demographics. The no-camera thing just screams wait for the second generation before you buy one Why on earth would you want a camera on a device whose form factor is utterly opposed to the hold-up-point-and-shoot facilities in mobile phones which made digital photography mainstream? Not saying you're wrong, just that I can't fathom it. M. - Sent via the backstage.bbc.co.uk discussion group. To unsubscribe, please visit http://backstage.bbc.co.uk/archives/2005/01/mailing_list.html. Unofficial list archive: http://www.mail-archive.com/backstage@lists.bbc.co.uk/ This e-mail (and any attachments) is confidential and may contain personal views which are not the views of the BBC unless specifically stated. If you have received it in error, please delete it from your system. Do not use, copy or disclose the information in any way nor act in reliance on it and notify the sender immediately. Please note that the BBC monitors e-mails sent or received. Further communication will signify your consent to this
RE: [backstage] iPad
I tried calling him but he wouldn't take my call. Something about a blog entry I wrote about the ipad? :) http://cubicgarden.com/wordpress/2010/01/27/the-apple-ipad-underwelming-but-not-a-bad-price/ Secret[] Private[x] Public[] Ian Forrester Senior Backstage Producer BBC RD North Lab, 1st Floor Office, OB Base, New Broadcasting House, Oxford Road, Manchester, M60 1SJ From: owner-backst...@lists.bbc.co.uk [mailto:owner-backst...@lists.bbc.co.uk] On Behalf Of Brendan Quinn Sent: 28 January 2010 16:15 To: backstage@lists.bbc.co.uk Subject: RE: [backstage] iPad heh, we have a virtual steadicam system in RD that could address this problem (the motion sickness thing)... has anyone got Steve Jobs' phone number? From: owner-backst...@lists.bbc.co.uk [mailto:owner-backst...@lists.bbc.co.uk] On Behalf Of Michael Kraskin Sent: 28 January 2010 13:49 To: backstage@lists.bbc.co.uk Subject: Re: [backstage] iPad I'd agree to a gentleman's wager that the second generation will have a front facing camera and a native application just for this purpose. - Original Message - From: owner-backst...@lists.bbc.co.uk owner-backst...@lists.bbc.co.uk To: backstage@lists.bbc.co.uk backstage@lists.bbc.co.uk Sent: Thu Jan 28 08:37:23 2010 Subject: RE: [backstage] iPad I can see why they didn't put a camera on it. Who's going to be bother holding the thing still enough to enable decent chat? It would be a nightmare to try and hold it out in front of your face and even worse for the person getting motion sickness on the other end. From: owner-backst...@lists.bbc.co.uk [mailto:owner-backst...@lists.bbc.co.uk] On Behalf Of Michael Kraskin Sent: 28 January 2010 13:28 To: backstage@lists.bbc.co.uk Subject: Re: [backstage] iPad Re camera, I want it for the exact same reason every single apple laptop has one. Not point and shoot, but video chat. And if developers do change because of this, that's great, and perhaps then it will make sense to buy one. - Original Message - From: owner-backst...@lists.bbc.co.uk owner-backst...@lists.bbc.co.uk To: backstage@lists.bbc.co.uk backstage@lists.bbc.co.uk Sent: Thu Jan 28 07:56:06 2010 Subject: Re: [backstage] iPad On Thu, Jan 28, 2010 at 12:20, Michael Kraskin michael.kras...@bbc.com wrote: I think the no-Flash means that it a seriously crippled web browser. Hardly the best way to browse the internet, and thus will be a serious disappointment, not only to power users, but to casual internet surfers as well. As a user, the lack of Flash won't affect me much, if at all. fewer ads, and that's about it. The kids won't get near it, as CBeebies appears to be built almost entirely in Flash (much the same with Club Penguin), but I can't say I'd consider them not wanting to get their grubby fingers on it a bad thing (though there are plenty of games in the App Store they'd like instead). As a web developer, I can't remember the last time web developers influenced browsers and not the other way around. Can't see that one changing any time soon: if the iPad is successful, websites will stop relying on Flash being ubiquitous (either degrading where Flash isn't present, or doing something else entirely), assuming they and the iPad share customer demographics. The no-camera thing just screams wait for the second generation before you buy one Why on earth would you want a camera on a device whose form factor is utterly opposed to the hold-up-point-and-shoot facilities in mobile phones which made digital photography mainstream? Not saying you're wrong, just that I can't fathom it. M. - Sent via the backstage.bbc.co.uk discussion group. To unsubscribe, please visit http://backstage.bbc.co.uk/archives/2005/01/mailing_list.html. Unofficial list archive: http://www.mail-archive.com/backstage@lists.bbc.co.uk/ This e-mail (and any attachments) is confidential and may contain personal views which are not the views of the BBC unless specifically stated. If you have received it in error, please delete it from your system. Do not use, copy or disclose the information in any way nor act in reliance on it and notify the sender immediately.
RE: [backstage] iPad
No more Macs. I'm done feeding this beast - for the same reason I was done feeding the Microsoft beast a few years ago. I'm not sure what I do now. I'll continue using the Mac I have until it needs replacing. Then whatever I get won't be a Mac. If Linux still doesn't quite fit, I'll hack together a Hackintosh. I'm hoping that in the next year or two, I can finally move over to the open source Promised Land. ;) See http://tommorris.org/wiki/Things_preventing_me_from_moving_to_Linux_full_time - Found just the thing for you Tom - http://www.haiku-os.org/ Its BeOS but Open source, the alpha is actually quite good - Sent via the backstage.bbc.co.uk discussion group. To unsubscribe, please visit http://backstage.bbc.co.uk/archives/2005/01/mailing_list.html. Unofficial list archive: http://www.mail-archive.com/backstage@lists.bbc.co.uk/
Re: [backstage] iPad
Mo McRoberts wrote: So, what does everyone think? Hm... I'm a bit concerned that they've taken what is basically general purpose computer and said you can only do what we allow you to do. If this was a Mac Tablet, I'm not sure I'd have an issue. On your Mac you can run pretty much anything you want on it; if you build a neat program that lets you do something Apple hadn't intended it be used for, then you are free to do so. It seems such a step backwards that the first device which will make a real impact on the tablet form factor is going to stifle developers open innovation and prevent consumers from getting the most out of their device. This article has a fairly balanced perspective on the issues apple has created: http://createdigitalmusic.com/2010/01/27/how-a-great-product-can-be-bad-news-apple-ipad-and-the-closed-mac/ (and how much effect will it have on the video situation over the next 18 months or so, do we reckon?) Now *that* is an interesting question. Probably very little - it's just a continuation of the iphone situation - limited Browser string. - Sent via the backstage.bbc.co.uk discussion group. To unsubscribe, please visit http://backstage.bbc.co.uk/archives/2005/01/mailing_list.html. Unofficial list archive: http://www.mail-archive.com/backstage@lists.bbc.co.uk/
Re: [backstage] iPad
2010/1/28 Mo McRoberts m...@nevali.net It's a piece of consumer electronics. A very powerful piece of consumer electronics, but a piece of consumer electronics nonetheless. I think that's what I was getting at. Before home computers came along the things consumers bought were called calculators. There's something a bit old-school about me, if I can't pick it up and start programming it, then it a thing not a computer. And a thing with DRM seems such a broken thing then that's my problem. Operating System isn't what I meant. Apologies for inflammatory language, I found out this morning someone has stolen by external terrabyte drive. Lost a decade of TV recordings... M. - Sent via the backstage.bbc.co.uk discussion group. To unsubscribe, please visit http://backstage.bbc.co.uk/archives/2005/01/mailing_list.html. Unofficial list archive: http://www.mail-archive.com/backstage@lists.bbc.co.uk/ -- Brian Butterworth follow me on twitter: http://twitter.com/briantist web: http://www.ukfree.tv - independent digital television and switchover advice, since 2002
Re: [backstage] iPad
Ian, I don't know where you host cubicgaren.com (at home, perhaps) but it's very often down, as it is now... 2010/1/28 Ian Forrester ian.forres...@bbc.co.uk I tried calling him but he wouldn't take my call. Something about a blog entry I wrote about the ipad? :) http://cubicgarden.com/wordpress/2010/01/27/the-apple-ipad-underwelming-but-not-a-bad-price/ Secret[] Private[x] Public[] Ian Forrester Senior Backstage Producer BBC RD North Lab, 1st Floor Office, OB Base, New Broadcasting House, Oxford Road, Manchester, M60 1SJ -- *From:* owner-backst...@lists.bbc.co.uk [mailto: owner-backst...@lists.bbc.co.uk] *On Behalf Of *Brendan Quinn *Sent:* 28 January 2010 16:15 *To:* backstage@lists.bbc.co.uk *Subject:* RE: [backstage] iPad heh, we have a virtual steadicam system in RD that could address this problem (the motion sickness thing)... has anyone got Steve Jobs' phone number? -- *From:* owner-backst...@lists.bbc.co.uk [mailto: owner-backst...@lists.bbc.co.uk] *On Behalf Of *Michael Kraskin *Sent:* 28 January 2010 13:49 *To:* backstage@lists.bbc.co.uk *Subject:* Re: [backstage] iPad I'd agree to a gentleman's wager that the second generation will have a front facing camera and a native application just for this purpose. - Original Message - From: owner-backst...@lists.bbc.co.uk owner-backst...@lists.bbc.co.uk To: backstage@lists.bbc.co.uk backstage@lists.bbc.co.uk Sent: Thu Jan 28 08:37:23 2010 Subject: RE: [backstage] iPad I can see why they didn’t put a camera on it. Who’s going to be bother holding the thing still enough to enable decent chat? It would be a nightmare to try and hold it out in front of your face and even worse for the person getting motion sickness on the other end. From: owner-backst...@lists.bbc.co.uk [ mailto:owner-backst...@lists.bbc.co.uk owner-backst...@lists.bbc.co.uk] On Behalf Of Michael Kraskin Sent: 28 January 2010 13:28 To: backstage@lists.bbc.co.uk Subject: Re: [backstage] iPad Re camera, I want it for the exact same reason every single apple laptop has one. Not point and shoot, but video chat. And if developers do change because of this, that's great, and perhaps then it will make sense to buy one. - Original Message - From: owner-backst...@lists.bbc.co.uk owner-backst...@lists.bbc.co.uk To: backstage@lists.bbc.co.uk backstage@lists.bbc.co.uk Sent: Thu Jan 28 07:56:06 2010 Subject: Re: [backstage] iPad On Thu, Jan 28, 2010 at 12:20, Michael Kraskin michael.kras...@bbc.com wrote: I think the no-Flash means that it a seriously crippled web browser. Hardly the best way to browse the internet, and thus will be a serious disappointment, not only to power users, but to casual internet surfers as well. As a user, the lack of Flash won't affect me much, if at all. fewer ads, and that's about it. The kids won't get near it, as CBeebies appears to be built almost entirely in Flash (much the same with Club Penguin), but I can't say I'd consider them not wanting to get their grubby fingers on it a bad thing (though there are plenty of games in the App Store they'd like instead). As a web developer, I can't remember the last time web developers influenced browsers and not the other way around. Can't see that one changing any time soon: if the iPad is successful, websites will stop relying on Flash being ubiquitous (either degrading where Flash isn't present, or doing something else entirely), assuming they and the iPad share customer demographics. The no-camera thing just screams wait for the second generation before you buy one Why on earth would you want a camera on a device whose form factor is utterly opposed to the hold-up-point-and-shoot facilities in mobile phones which made digital photography mainstream? Not saying you're wrong, just that I can't fathom it. M. - Sent via the backstage.bbc.co.uk discussion group. To unsubscribe, please visit http://backstage.bbc.co.uk/archives/2005/01/mailing_list.html. Unofficial list archive: http://www.mail-archive.com/backstage@lists.bbc.co.uk/ This e-mail (and any attachments) is confidential and may contain personal views which are not the views of the BBC unless specifically stated. If you have received it in error, please delete it from your system. Do not use, copy or disclose the information in any way nor act in reliance on it and notify the sender immediately. Please note that the BBC monitors e-mails sent or received. Further communication will signify your consent to this -- Brian Butterworth follow me on twitter: http://twitter.com/briantist web: http://www.ukfree.tv - independent digital television and switchover advice, since 2002
Re: [backstage] iPad
On Thu, Jan 28, 2010 at 17:43, Brian Butterworth briant...@freeview.tv wrote: Apologies for inflammatory language, I found out this morning someone has stolen by external terrabyte drive. Lost a decade of TV recordings... Oh cripes, my condolences :( - Sent via the backstage.bbc.co.uk discussion group. To unsubscribe, please visit http://backstage.bbc.co.uk/archives/2005/01/mailing_list.html. Unofficial list archive: http://www.mail-archive.com/backstage@lists.bbc.co.uk/
Re: [backstage] iPad
Tim Dobson wrote: It seems such a step backwards that the first device which will make a real impact on the tablet form factor is going to stifle developers open innovation and prevent consumers from getting the most out of their device. Ahaha This is probably the funniest thing I've seen so far this year: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lQnT0zp8Ya4 - Sent via the backstage.bbc.co.uk discussion group. To unsubscribe, please visit http://backstage.bbc.co.uk/archives/2005/01/mailing_list.html. Unofficial list archive: http://www.mail-archive.com/backstage@lists.bbc.co.uk/
Re: [backstage] iPad
On Wed, Jan 27, 2010 at 22:37, Mo McRoberts m...@nevali.net wrote: So, what does everyone think? I quoted it earlier on my blog - Alex Payne (@al3x) states succintly what the problem is with closed platforms like the iPad: The thing that bothers me most about the iPad is this: if I had an iPad rather than a real computer as a kid, I’d never be a programmer today. I’d never have had the ability to run whatever stupid, potentially harmful, hugely educational programs I could download or write. - http://al3x.net/2010/01/28/ipad.html I'm preaching to the choir here - the first computers I used were both open and booted straight to a BASIC prompt (BBC B booted straight to BBC BASIC, and the Amstrad CPC 6128 booted to AMSBASIC). Back then, games and accessories were pretty expensive - £25-£30 (£30 in 1990 money is £45 in 2009 money, remember), and no Internet, meant the only thing to do was to play around and write code. Now, to programme on my Mac, I have to install a special developer kit from the DVD. On Windows, you can hack, but it's not at all clear how to unless you really rummage around a bit. Okay, so Apple have made a closed platform. Big deal. What concerns me more about the iPad and the rise of proprietary App Stores (there are people saying that there ought to be app stores for Windows and Mac OS X!) is the reaction of the geeks is don't worry, web apps will save us. I've seen so many people say this - Joe Hewitt, Chris Messina and many others. Except web apps won't save us. Web apps will always be a second class citizen. How about any software that requires a bit of oomph? I bring up three examples always: Final Cut Pro, Eclipse, Crysis. Last time I checked, browsers weren't much good at chucking polygons around compared to the cheap and widespread graphics cards in everybody's computers (don't let the length of the spec fool you: HTML5 does not contain OpenGL hidden inside!). And they will never have full platform access. On the iPhone, how do you get access to the Notifications API from a web app? (Best I can think of is e-mail or Twitter.) And what if there's data that's supposed to be a little bit more private? And, it doesn't solve Alex Payne's issue: it basically splits the world into two - the haves and the have-nots. The haves live in a world of computers, compilers and servers. The have-nots, even if they have great ideas, don't get to play in that world. They don't even get to play at the shallow end and build webpages or write JavaScript hacks (sorry, no Firebug for you, no text editor, no filesystem even!). -- Tom Morris http://tommorris.org/ - Sent via the backstage.bbc.co.uk discussion group. To unsubscribe, please visit http://backstage.bbc.co.uk/archives/2005/01/mailing_list.html. Unofficial list archive: http://www.mail-archive.com/backstage@lists.bbc.co.uk/
Re: [backstage] iPad
2010/1/28 Tom Morris bbtommor...@gmail.com: A quote from Apple COO Tim Cook: We believe that we need to own and control the primary technologies behind the products we make Err, no thanks. No more Macs. I'm done feeding this beast - for the same reason I was done feeding the Microsoft beast a few years ago. Awesome! Thanks for posting this, reminds me of http://diveintomark.org/archives/2006/06/02/when-the-bough-breaks :-) - Sent via the backstage.bbc.co.uk discussion group. To unsubscribe, please visit http://backstage.bbc.co.uk/archives/2005/01/mailing_list.html. Unofficial list archive: http://www.mail-archive.com/backstage@lists.bbc.co.uk/
Re: [backstage] iPad
2010/1/28 Mo McRoberts m...@nevali.net: On Thu, Jan 28, 2010 at 11:49, Dave Crossland d...@lab6.com wrote: 2010/1/28 Daniel Morris daniel.mor...@bbc.co.uk: Sorry, I didn't realise we were back in the 1970s where the software that runs on the iPhone can be called an operating system. Am I missing something - how is it not an OS? :) Apple actively oppose you installing whatever you want to, and running applications in the background, on the iPhone and now on the iPad. These are features of any respectable operating system since the 70s. No, these are features of any operating system designed for use by computer users. iPad is a computer, owners of iPads are computer users, but Apple blocks access to those features. So, from the user's perspective, those features do not exist, and so, it is not a respectable operating system. I find it very similar to the way that governments, in serving corporate interests, attempt to deny people are citizens with rights and refer to them as much as possible as consumers. If you own your computer, it ought to be under your control. Apple computers are not. The ultimate answer is 100% free software. The same applies to your car, central heating system, ADSL router, Freeview box, TV and most mobile phones... There is an crucial social question raised by the difference between a microprocessor in a car, CHS, router, STB, TV or mobile phone that no one can update the software on, and one which the manufacturer can update but not the user. You can't even choose NOT to take Apple's updates, for example when they disable a feature that you enjoy using. There are countless examples of computers with 'tivoisation' that have done this. Point of note, though, it's a computer in the technical sense, in the same way that all mobile phones are computers. Really, though, it's [consumer electronics]. That the iPad or any other ebook reader is not a computer is a dangerous lie. Almost all mobile phones sold today are proper computers and the iPad certainly is. - Sent via the backstage.bbc.co.uk discussion group. To unsubscribe, please visit http://backstage.bbc.co.uk/archives/2005/01/mailing_list.html. Unofficial list archive: http://www.mail-archive.com/backstage@lists.bbc.co.uk/
