Re: Problem creating record

[Angel de Vicente]

Hi Roland,

many thanks for your help. After reading your comment, I just modified
bbdb-mua-auto-update-p to 'search and then I have the perfect (for me)
setting:

* when reading messages in Gnus if the sender is in the database it
  automatically shows its record in the BBDB buffer and when I move to
  another message, the BBDB buffer is changed automatically to show the
  new sender.

* if I move to read a message whose sender is not in the database, the
  BBDB buffer is just empty (assuming it had been previously created
  with another message, otherwise no BBDB buffer is shown), but BBDB
  doesn't automatically add it to the database or ask me if I want to
  include it. For that I have to type ":" and then BBDB offers me the
  option to include it. That way I can grom my BBDB database in a more
  controlled fashion.

So, if it can be of any help to someone in the future, here it is my
final BBDB configuration lines in .emacs

,
| ;; BBDB
| ;;
| (require 'bbdb)
| (bbdb-initialize 'gnus 'message)
| (bbdb-mua-auto-update-init 'gnus 'message)
| (setq bbdb-mua-update-interactive-p '(query . create)
|   bbdb-update-records-p 'query
|   bbdb-mua-auto-update-p 'search)
| (setq bbdb-file "~/.bbdb"
|   bbdb-mua-pop-up-window-size 3
|   bbdb-layout 'one-line
|   bbdb-pop-up-window-size 5
|   bbdb-complete-mail-allow-cycling t)
| (add-hook 'bbdb-notice-mail-hook 'bbdb-auto-notes)
| 
| ; From a message on 19 Jun 2017 by Wes Hardaker in bbdb-info
| ; to solve an issue with ivy + bbdb
| ;(otherwise we can try with just C-M-j (bound to ivy-immediate-done)
| 
| (defadvice bbdb-read-string (before bbdb-read-string-no-ivy activate)
|   (ivy-mode 0))
| (defadvice bbdb-read-string (after bbdb-read-string-yes-ivy activate)
|   (ivy-mode 1))
`

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Re: Problem creating record

[Roland Winkler]

On Sun Jun 25 2017 Angel de Vicente wrote:
> ,
> | (require 'bbdb)
> | (bbdb-initialize 'gnus 'message)
> | (bbdb-mua-auto-update-init 'gnus 'message)
> | (setq bbdb-mua-update-interactive-p '(query . create)
> |   bbdb-update-records-p 'query
> |   bbdb-mua-auto-update-p 'query)
> | (setq bbdb-file "~/.bbdb"
> |   bbdb-mua-pop-up-window-size 3
> |   bbdb-layout 'one-line
> |   bbdb-pop-up-window-size 5
> |   bbdb-complete-mail-allow-cycling t)
> | (add-hook 'bbdb-notice-mail-hook 'bbdb-auto-notes)
> | 
> | ; From a message on 19 Jun 2017 by Wes Hardaker in bbdb-info
> | ; to solve an issue with ivy + bbdb
> | ;(otherwise we can try with just C-M-j (bound to ivy-immediate-done)
> | 
> | (defadvice bbdb-read-string (before bbdb-read-string-no-ivy activate)
> |   (ivy-mode 0))
> | (defadvice bbdb-read-string (after bbdb-read-string-yes-ivy activate)
> |   (ivy-mode 1))
> `
> 
> Not perfect, but quite close to what I wanted. Now when I'm reading
> mails from inside Gnus, the BBDB buffer shows the record for the sender
> and it is updated automatically when I move from one message to another,
> and it asks me whether I want to add a new record when it finds one that
> is not in the database (if I don't want to add that person, it can be a
> bit annoying, because it will ask me everytime I see a mail from that
> person, not remembering I said 'no' already to that mail).
> 
> To make it perfect I would prefer to:
> * if the sender is not in the database, get an empty BBDB buffer
> * to be able to create (not automatically, but issuing a command, so I
>   can decide when/if to add it to the database) a new record with the
>   info from the sender (similar to the old BBDB ":" behaviour).

You have enabled both the "manual update" of BBDB via the line

  (bbdb-initialize 'gnus 'message) 

as well as "auto-update" of BBDB via

  (bbdb-mua-auto-update-init 'gnus 'message)

and both run in the "query" mode.  But it seems that the auto-update
is too aggressive for you, because it is performed immediately for
*every* message you are reading.  So you probably did not even
notice that you would get the less aggresive manual update by
hitting ":" for those messages, where you want to query or update
BBDB in a more selective manor.

So you may want to disable the auto-update by deleting the line

  (bbdb-mua-auto-update-init 'gnus 'message)

Often, having both the manual and the auto-update enabled may make
sense only if the auto-update is less aggressive, using, e.g., the
"search" mode.  Then you can run a more aggressive mode like "query"
manually by hitting ":".

Notes: 

- BBDB would need to maintain a 2nd database of email addresses or
  names that should not go into BBDB in order to ask you only once
  whether you want to put an address into BBDB.

- If BBDB doesn't know anything about the senders or recipients,
  I do not see a need to pop up an empty buffer.  This is also similar
  to all other BBDB search commands that will not pop up a BBDB buffer
  if the search did not match any records.  (I believe BBDB 2 behaved
  the same, though I am not sure.

  Of course, you can also run BBDB in a dedicated window that will
  never be taken over by anything else.  And / or run the function
  bbdb-undisplay-records (not a command)) to get an empty BBDB
  buffer.

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Re: Problem creating record

[Angel de Vicente]

Hi,

so, based on previous mails I ended up with this for Gnus integration:
,
| (require 'bbdb)
| (bbdb-initialize 'gnus 'message)
| (bbdb-mua-auto-update-init 'gnus 'message)
| (setq bbdb-mua-update-interactive-p '(query . create)
|   bbdb-update-records-p 'query
|   bbdb-mua-auto-update-p 'query)
| (setq bbdb-file "~/.bbdb"
|   bbdb-mua-pop-up-window-size 3
|   bbdb-layout 'one-line
|   bbdb-pop-up-window-size 5
|   bbdb-complete-mail-allow-cycling t)
| (add-hook 'bbdb-notice-mail-hook 'bbdb-auto-notes)
| 
| ; From a message on 19 Jun 2017 by Wes Hardaker in bbdb-info
| ; to solve an issue with ivy + bbdb
| ;(otherwise we can try with just C-M-j (bound to ivy-immediate-done)
| 
| (defadvice bbdb-read-string (before bbdb-read-string-no-ivy activate)
|   (ivy-mode 0))
| (defadvice bbdb-read-string (after bbdb-read-string-yes-ivy activate)
|   (ivy-mode 1))
`

Not perfect, but quite close to what I wanted. Now when I'm reading
mails from inside Gnus, the BBDB buffer shows the record for the sender
and it is updated automatically when I move from one message to another,
and it asks me whether I want to add a new record when it finds one that
is not in the database (if I don't want to add that person, it can be a
bit annoying, because it will ask me everytime I see a mail from that
person, not remembering I said 'no' already to that mail).

To make it perfect I would prefer to:
* if the sender is not in the database, get an empty BBDB buffer
* to be able to create (not automatically, but issuing a command, so I
  can decide when/if to add it to the database) a new record with the
  info from the sender (similar to the old BBDB ":" behaviour).


(Roland says that the right way to activate BBDB is by loading
bbdb-loaddefs.el, but I don't find that file anywhere in my BBDB
directory, and (require 'bbdb) seems to do the right thing?)


Cheers,
Ángel de Vicente



Greg Bognar  writes:

> On Mon 19 Jun 2017 at 18:18 Roland Winkler wrote:
>> On Mon Jun 19 2017 Greg Bognar wrote:
>> > I am in the same situation with Wanderlust, so it seems a general
>> > BBDB3 problem.  With BBDB2 I was able to do something similar to
>> > what you describe in WL.  Now BBDB never asks to harvest any
>> > address (unless I press :), no matter what settings I try.  I
>> > asked about it on this list a few months ago, but didn't get
>> > anything useful.
>> 
>> Have you looked into the README file?
>> 
>> I know, it is not perfect.  But it should get you started.
>
> The relevant parts of my init.el:
>
> (require 'bbdb)
> (bbdb-initialize 'wl)
> (bbdb-mua-auto-update-init 'wl)
> (load "~/.emacs.d/filters") ;; Filters for BBDB
> (setq bbdb-mua-update-interactive-p '(query . create)
>   bbdb-update-records-p 'query
>   bbdb-mua-auto-update-p 'query)
> (setq bbdb-file "~/.emacs.d/bbdb"
>   bbdb-mua-pop-up-window-size 3
>   bbdb-layout 'one-line
>   bbdb-pop-up-window-size 5
>   bbdb-complete-mail-allow-cycling t)
> (add-hook 'bbdb-notice-mail-hook 'bbdb-auto-notes)
>
> This is how far I got.  The ~/.emacs.d/filters file contains the variables
> bbdb-accept-message-alist and bbdb-ignore-message-alist.
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Re: Problem creating record

[Roland Winkler]

On Wed Jun 21 2017 Greg Bognar wrote:
> There is an EmacsWiki page for an earlier attempt to integrate WL
> and BBDB3: BBDBV3-Wl at https://www.emacswiki.org/emacs/BBDBV3-Wl.
> However, the link to the project seems to be dead.

While the links to the project seem to be dead, the page says that
the code tried to re-implement for BBDB3 what BBDB-Wl did for BBDB2.

What is BBDB-Wl?  BBDB3 supports a number of MUAs I don't know
either.  But I simply took the code from BBDB2 as a guidance to
re-implement the interface.  So I could take a look at BBDB-Wl to
see whether it allows a similar thing.

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Re: Problem creating record

[Roland Winkler]

On Wed Jun 21 2017 Greg Bognar wrote:
> > To activate BBDB you should not require bbdb but bbdb-loaddefs.el,
> > see README.  Does this solve your problem?
> 
> No, it does not.  It makes no difference.
> 
> I have read the README several times.  I have some understanding
> of Elisp, but it is no help.  I have also asked around on the WL
> list, and the only people for whom this works properly use BBDB2.
> 
> It would be very helpful to provide a sample configuration in the
> README that is known to work.

I myself do not know anything about WL.  I got the code that BBDB
uses to interact with WL from David Maus, whom I include in this
message.

However, if I set up BBDB using the following code with my-mua bound to
gnus or vm, BBDB will query to auto-update the database whenever I
read a message, where the sender is not yet known to BBDB.

(require 'bbdb-loaddefs "/path/to/bbdb/lisp/bbdb-loaddefs.el")
(setq my-mua 'gnus)
(bbdb-initialize my-mua)
(bbdb-mua-auto-update-init my-mua)
(setq bbdb-mua-update-interactive-p '(query . create)
  bbdb-update-records-p 'query
  bbdb-mua-auto-update-p 'query)

Can you reproduce that this works for you as expected with Gnus?

If the BBDB interface with WL does not work as it should, could
someone look into this who is actually using WL and knows more about
it than me?

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Re: Problem creating record

[Roland Winkler]

On Tue Jun 20 2017 Greg Bognar wrote:
> The relevant parts of my init.el:
> 
> (require 'bbdb)

To activate BBDB you should not require bbdb but bbdb-loaddefs.el,
see README.  Does this solve your problem?

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Re: Problem creating record

[Roland Winkler]

On Tue Jun 20 2017 Angel de Vicente wrote:
> In my .emacs file I have:
> ,
> | (require 'bbdb)
> | (bbdb-initialize 'gnus 'message)
> | (bbdb-mua-auto-update-init)
> `

The function bbdb-mua-auto-update-init is called like
bbdb-initialize: you need to specify the MUAs it should hook into.
(Maybe you want that it watches only incomming or only outgoing
messages...)

> I would be happy to do this interactively, but I don't see any command
> to close the BBDB buffer? (Do I just have to define my own?)

What do you mean by "closing the BBDB buffer"?  As in similar modes,
BBDB binds "q" to quit-window.

> OK, changing it to (query . query) now BBDB offers me to add a record to
> the database.
> ,
> | bbdb-mua-update-interactive-p is a variable defined in ‘bbdb.el’.
> | Its value is (query . query)
> | Original value was (search . query)
> `

The idea is that the action specified by the cdr can be more
"aggressive" than the action specified by the car.  So if you call
the command with C-u (because you know what you want), you get the
more "aggressive" action.  (Of course, if "query" is all you always
want, you need not worry about the cdr.  Or you make the cdr a less
aggressive action.  The choices are yours.)


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Re: Problem creating record

[Norman Walsh]

Angel de Vicente  writes:
> Wes Hardaker  writes:
>> I've been meaning to solve this problem for months.  It's been driving
>> me nuts not to be able to create new records, so your message finally
>> prompted me to dive into things and have come up with the following
>> solution:
>>
>>   (defadvice bbdb-read-string (before bbdb-read-string-no-ivy activate)
>> (ivy-mode 0))
>>   (defadvice bbdb-read-string (after bbdb-read-string-yes-ivy activate)
>> (ivy-mode 1))
>>
>> If you put the above into your emacs initialization it'll turn off
>> ivy-mode while bbdb is prompting for strings.
>
> Exactly what I was looking for. Many thanks for sharing the code.

+1, though I’d managed to work out (accidentally, I think, that C-M-j
also worked).

Be seeing you,
  norm

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http://nwalsh.com/| the pitcher. The pitcher fell on the
  | stone? Woe to the pitcher.--Rabbinic
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Re: Problem creating record

[Greg Bognar]

On Mon 19 Jun 2017 at 18:18 Roland Winkler wrote:
> On Mon Jun 19 2017 Greg Bognar wrote:
> > I am in the same situation with Wanderlust, so it seems a general
> > BBDB3 problem.  With BBDB2 I was able to do something similar to
> > what you describe in WL.  Now BBDB never asks to harvest any
> > address (unless I press :), no matter what settings I try.  I
> > asked about it on this list a few months ago, but didn't get
> > anything useful.
> 
> Have you looked into the README file?
> 
> I know, it is not perfect.  But it should get you started.

The relevant parts of my init.el:

(require 'bbdb)
(bbdb-initialize 'wl)
(bbdb-mua-auto-update-init 'wl)
(load "~/.emacs.d/filters") ;; Filters for BBDB
(setq bbdb-mua-update-interactive-p '(query . create)
  bbdb-update-records-p 'query
  bbdb-mua-auto-update-p 'query)
(setq bbdb-file "~/.emacs.d/bbdb"
  bbdb-mua-pop-up-window-size 3
  bbdb-layout 'one-line
  bbdb-pop-up-window-size 5
  bbdb-complete-mail-allow-cycling t)
(add-hook 'bbdb-notice-mail-hook 'bbdb-auto-notes)

This is how far I got.  The ~/.emacs.d/filters file contains the variables
bbdb-accept-message-alist and bbdb-ignore-message-alist.

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Re: Problem creating record

[Alan Schmitt]

"AdV" == Angel de Vicente  writes:

AdV> The culprit seems to be "ivy". After disabling it, I'm able to
AdV> create a new record in BBDB with M-x bbdb-create, and either C-j or
AdV> just leaving the fields empty gets me out of the infinite "Street
AdV> Address" loop described in my previous message. For the moment I
AdV> can do it manually, though later on I will have to figure out how
AdV> to disable ivy, call bbdb-create and re-enable ivy.

If want to use the current input instead of the current candidate while
ivy is active, you can use `ivy-immediate-done', bound to C-M-j by
default. (This is also useful when creating a file that has a match.)
This works for me when entering records in bbdb.

Best,

Alan

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Re: Problem creating record

[Angel de Vicente]

Hi Wes,

Wes Hardaker  writes:
> I've been meaning to solve this problem for months.  It's been driving
> me nuts not to be able to create new records, so your message finally
> prompted me to dive into things and have come up with the following
> solution:
>
>   (defadvice bbdb-read-string (before bbdb-read-string-no-ivy activate)
> (ivy-mode 0))
>   (defadvice bbdb-read-string (after bbdb-read-string-yes-ivy activate)
> (ivy-mode 1))
>
> If you put the above into your emacs initialization it'll turn off
> ivy-mode while bbdb is prompting for strings.

Exactly what I was looking for. Many thanks for sharing the code.

Cheers,
-- 
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Re: Problem creating record

[Angel de Vicente]

Hi Roland,

many thanks for your help


"Roland Winkler"  writes:
>> 2. Once the BBDB buffer is shown, I would like that when I move to
>>another message, the BBDB buffer is updated automatically: now I have
>>to press ":" again to see the new sender, and if the sender is not in
>>BBDB, it just shows the previous sender, where ideally an empty
>>buffer would be better
>
> A continuously updated BBDB buffer is maintained via bbdb-mua-auto-update.
>
> See the section "Noninteractive functions" in README.

I have tried to follow the instructions there, but I don't seem to be
able to get it working

In my .emacs file I have:
,
| (require 'bbdb)
| (bbdb-initialize 'gnus 'message)
| (bbdb-mua-auto-update-init)
`

and I have modified the variables mentioned in the README file

bbdb-mua-pop-up is:
,
| bbdb-mua-pop-up is a variable defined in ‘bbdb.el’.
| Its value is t
`

,
| bbdb-mua-auto-update-p is a variable defined in ‘bbdb.el’.
| Its value is ‘query’
`

but the BBDB buffer is still not updated when I move from one message to
another in Gnus.


>> 3. Pressing ":" again gets rid of the BBDB buffer
>
> Either you let BBDB handle these things interactively via commands
> like bbdb-mua-display-records bound to ":" (see above, your item 1.),
> or you do them non-interactively (your item 2.)
>
> Anything else "do what I mean" you might have to hack on your own.

I would be happy to do this interactively, but I don't see any command
to close the BBDB buffer? (Do I just have to define my own?)


>> 4. If the sender is not in the database press some key and offer the
>>option to include it in the database.
>
> Interactive commands: bind bbdb-mua-update-interactive-p to your liking
> (see README).
>
> Noninteractively: see again the section "Noninteractive functions"
> in README.


OK, changing it to (query . query) now BBDB offers me to add a record to
the database.
,
| bbdb-mua-update-interactive-p is a variable defined in ‘bbdb.el’.
| Its value is (query . query)
| Original value was (search . query)
`


So, I'm very close to getting it to do what I would like, the only
important missing part is that I would like that once I have pressed ":"
and the BBDB buffer is visible, when I move to another mail message the
contents in the BBDB buffer are updated automatically.
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Re: Problem creating record

[Roland Winkler]

On Mon Jun 19 2017 Greg Bognar wrote:
> I am in the same situation with Wanderlust, so it seems a general
> BBDB3 problem.  With BBDB2 I was able to do something similar to
> what you describe in WL.  Now BBDB never asks to harvest any
> address (unless I press :), no matter what settings I try.  I
> asked about it on this list a few months ago, but didn't get
> anything useful.

Have you looked into the README file?

I know, it is not perfect.  But it should get you started.

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Re: Problem creating record

[Roland Winkler]

On Mon Jun 19 2017 Angel de Vicente wrote:
> Ideally I would like:
> 
> 1. when reading a message, see if the sender is in my database (I can do
>that by pressing ":")

It seems you figured this out.

> 2. Once the BBDB buffer is shown, I would like that when I move to
>another message, the BBDB buffer is updated automatically: now I have
>to press ":" again to see the new sender, and if the sender is not in
>BBDB, it just shows the previous sender, where ideally an empty
>buffer would be better

A continuously updated BBDB buffer is maintained via bbdb-mua-auto-update.

See the section "Noninteractive functions" in README.

> 3. Pressing ":" again gets rid of the BBDB buffer

Either you let BBDB handle these things interactively via commands
like bbdb-mua-display-records bound to ":" (see above, your item 1.),
or you do them non-interactively (your item 2.)

Anything else "do what I mean" you might have to hack on your own.

> 4. If the sender is not in the database press some key and offer the
>option to include it in the database.

Interactive commands: bind bbdb-mua-update-interactive-p to your liking
(see README).

Noninteractively: see again the section "Noninteractive functions"
in README.

Roland

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Re: Problem creating record

[Greg Bognar]

For the record:

On Mon 19 Jun 2017 at 11:52 Angel de Vicente wrote:
> [...] 
> What I don't seem to get is a nice integration with Gnus as I used to
> have with my previous BBDB version, 2.36. Ideally I would like:
> 
> 1. when reading a message, see if the sender is in my database (I can do
>that by pressing ":")
> 2. Once the BBDB buffer is shown, I would like that when I move to
>another message, the BBDB buffer is updated automatically: now I have
>to press ":" again to see the new sender, and if the sender is not in
>BBDB, it just shows the previous sender, where ideally an empty
>buffer would be better
> 3. Pressing ":" again gets rid of the BBDB buffer
> 4. If the sender is not in the database press some key and offer the
>option to include it in the database.
> 
> If anybody is using BBDB + Gnus and can give me some advice on how to
> get these things done I will appreciate it a lot.

I am in the same situation with Wanderlust, so it seems a general BBDB3 problem.
With BBDB2 I was able to do something similar to what you describe in WL.  Now
BBDB never asks to harvest any address (unless I press :), no matter what
settings I try.  I asked about it on this list a few months ago, but didn't get
anything useful.

Best,
Greg

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Re: Problem creating record

[Roland Winkler]

On Fri Jun 16 2017 Angel de Vicente wrote:
> I'm not sure if this is due to upgrading to BBDB 3 or due to the
> other packages that I installed (ivy, counsel, etc.)...

Lots of configuration options have changed from BBDB 2 to 3, see

https://www.emacswiki.org/emacs/UpgradeBBDB

I suggest you first make sure BBDB 3 works for you as expected in an
Emacs session that doesn't load other packages that may override
Emacs' default behavior.  (I do not know what "ivy", "counsel" and
"etc." do.)

Once you got this working you may want to load the other packages,
too.

Roland

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Re: Problem creating record

[Angel de Vicente]

Hi 

Marco Wahl  writes:
>> and then the problem starts when I have to enter the address. I'm asked
>> for
>>
>> Street, line 1:
>> Street, line 2:
>> Street, line 3:
>> 
>>
>> and BBDB never seems to get satisfied, so I have to cancel the record
>> creation with C-g.
>>
>> Any ideas? Many thanks,
>
> C-j


No. I tried just leaving the line empty, also C-j, but street line
numbers keep appearing...

Also, with my previous setting GNUS+BBDB integration was nice (whenever
I was reading a mail from a contact already in my bbdb database, this
would show up in the mini-buffer and if it was not already in the
database I could add it by typing ":"). Now, neither works.

I'm not sure if this is due to upgrading to BBDB 3 or due to the other
packages that I installed (ivy, counsel, etc.)...
-- 
Ángel de Vicente
http://angel-de-vicente.blogspot.com/


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Re: Problem creating record

[Marco Wahl]

Hi,

> recently I updated bbdb, and I installed projectile, counsel-bbdb, ivy
> and some other packages to Emacs.
>
>   bbdb   20170129.2224 installed The Insidious Big 
> Brother Database for GNU Emacs
>   counsel-bbdb   20161105.350  installed Quick search 
> email from BBDB based on ivy
>
>
> Everything seems to work OK, but for some reason I cannot create a new
> bbdb record. After doing M-x bbdb-create I have to type the following in
> the mini-buffer:
>
> Name:
> Organizations:
> E-Mail Addresses:
> Snail Mail Address Label:
>
> and then the problem starts when I have to enter the address. I'm asked
> for
>
> Street, line 1:
> Street, line 2:
> Street, line 3:
> 
>
> and BBDB never seems to get satisfied, so I have to cancel the record
> creation with C-g.
>
> Any ideas? Many thanks,

C-j


Byee
Marco


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Problem creating record

[Angel de Vicente]

Hi,

recently I updated bbdb, and I installed projectile, counsel-bbdb, ivy
and some other packages to Emacs.

  bbdb   20170129.2224 installed The Insidious Big 
Brother Database for GNU Emacs
  counsel-bbdb   20161105.350  installed Quick search 
email from BBDB based on ivy


Everything seems to work OK, but for some reason I cannot create a new
bbdb record. After doing M-x bbdb-create I have to type the following in
the mini-buffer:

Name:
Organizations:
E-Mail Addresses:
Snail Mail Address Label:

and then the problem starts when I have to enter the address. I'm asked
for

Street, line 1:
Street, line 2:
Street, line 3:


and BBDB never seems to get satisfied, so I have to cancel the record
creation with C-g.

Any ideas? Many thanks,
-- 
Ángel de Vicente
http://angel-de-vicente.blogspot.com/


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