Re: Roundp
Hi! Peter, I have not yet used it enough or for long enough to check this out. I have talked about it to a range of people from Ag Consultants to Pest Plant Control people and all believe that it should be of little if any impact. It is considered that it will not even have any measurable effect on the pH. I think the only effect will be the reduction of weeds, there for reducing habitat for those that live on their living roots and the provision of dead weeds, thus the habitat for those that live on the dead material. So there will be some change, but not of a significant impact. Are you spot spraying particular targets or blanket spraying? Are you using green manure's? They are a big start on weed control, as Nature does not like voids and will seek to fill them. I am very impressed with my cousin with his clover grown under apple trees. He cuts it regularly and needs no manure, only a little compost which be makes with the BD Compost Preps. After some years he now has virtually no weeds. I have only visited him in winter or spring, so I do not know if he grows barley or another grain in summer. (We are in a Mediterranean climate.) By contrast, the next farm to me has a vineyard which has the beejeese sprayed out of it and each year get at least one new weed. Some are the only examples in the district. Have you read the Patient for the Vinegar/ Lemon juice spray? I assume you would dilute the apple cider vinegar a bit. Gil
Using the preps
Hi All, Could problems develop from using some of the preps but not all. like just using 500, 501 and 508. thanks, Daniel - Original Message - From: Tony Nelson-Smith [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Friday, October 25, 2002 9:13 AM Subject: Re: Cancer etc Sunny (in particular) - Even amongst fairly mainstream sufferers, attitude and a willingness to accept unconventional therapies seem to have very positive results. An acquaintance with colon cancer was given only months to live but, with the help of a very positive attitude and a diet worked out by the Bristol Centre, survived for several years; yet medical 'wisdom' still regularly dismisses such influences. I wasn't at that time aware of anthroposophical medicine or other, more spiritual alternative therapies - maybe, had I been able to pass on to him the suggestions arising from this thread, he'd still be with us! Tony N-S. _ Surf the Web without missing calls! Get MSN Broadband. http://resourcecenter.msn.com/access/plans/freeactivation.asp
Re: Heads up: USDA Organic Rules to Impact BD Practices
If the rules say that you can't spray CT on food crops for 120 days before harvest, then they are talking about foliar feed. They are worried about I. coli which forms in anaerobic situations in CT where there is too much food for the organisms (molasses) and too little aeration getting on food that is going to market. The participants in the CT list/serve are talking about their CT makers in terms of their ability to clean them well and quickly and in terms of getting not only bacteria, but a balance of bacteria and fungi. There's so much to understand. I would say that the NOP standards apply only to Certified organic growers. But certified organic is supposed to be the highest standard in the U.S. If they are so worded that they exclude the use of CT, then really they aren't useful for organic farmers because 24-hour CT as conceptualized by Elaine at Soil Food Web, Inc. makes organic much better. This is why Elaine's lectures around the world are so important. A lot of organic growers don't really know anything about what is actually going on in making compost--only that raw manure is prohibited. They have the rule without the understanding, and could easily have anaerobic conditions in their compost pile to start with. Elaine is writing a guide for understanding compost making. That ought to help matters. I surely do hope she can reach mainstream organic growers. If people do listen and understand instead of just following rules, then there shouldn't be any trouble. There also must be a difference between a cow pie you pick up in a BD pasture and the stuff that comes out of the kind of confined conditions that exist in feed lots. This does not help matters. I found Will Brinton's analysis of 500 to have limitations. His analysis of 500 doesn't tell me why it enlivens the soil. It only says that 500 is not raw manure. But how do BD compost and 500 work together? Has anyone ever been able to analyze the process or is it too esoteric? Allan Balliett wrote: If you're monitoring SANET or Elaine Inghams compost tea discussion group, you already know that the USDA organic rules group has been advised to restrict the use of compost teas on food crops. This applies particularly to teas that use added sugars (mollasses, for example). Already, however, it appears that the rule may be generalized to 'ban' all cow manure based teas. The chances of this impacting BD 500 and BC is very high. Of course, this only applies to people who are interested in receiving USDA organic certification, but the possibility of truly negative publicity is very high. I don't have all the details on these events, and what I've said above may be misleading. What I have to say most importantly is that we need to gather all the information we can on this move by the USDA organic group and discuss it among ourselves so we are prepared to speak out on it and more importantly, to talk intelligently to our customers about the difference between biodynamically grown foods and USDA organics. -Allan
Thanks to all BD people for being here on earth with me
My memories of the BD Conference in Lovettsville are so nourishing to my spirit. I wish I could get in a time machine and experience it all over again any time I want to. We are on the same wave length, and it means so much. Best, Merla
Shadow
Saturday 10/26/02 Via http://kristo.com The Gemini MOON Conjuncts unaspected SATURN at 4:01 AM CDT -5GMT, and goes Void of Course for 2 hours and 9 minutes. Everything is tremendously quiet. This latest experience of the collective Shadow is something to take stock of. I don't know about anyone else, but my own dreams have been insisting on the presence and acceptance of a very personal Shadow during these latest collective tragedies. Shadow never disappears...we can only do our best to accept the darkest aspects of our personal Psyche as essential to the process of attaining full awareness of Being. --- My level of paranoia is nearly palpable with the loss of Well*stone. The shock is measurable though. I guess in comparison to the DC area folks at least in this case there is a feeling of culpability not just the unknown. There is a rhythm and a field however hard to divine. In Love Light Markess
Re: Heads up: USDA Organic Rules to Impact BD Practices
Bio Dynamic farmers and gardeners have been using cow horn manure as a spray for over seventy years. How many have been adversly affected apart from getting a sore back from carrying a bucket in one hand and flicking horn manure out with the other. I've had the wind blow it back in my face numerous times over the last 40 years and I keep in pretty good health. best wishes, Peter. - Original Message - From: Gil Robertson [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Friday, October 25, 2002 1:20 PM Subject: Re: Heads up: USDA Organic Rules to Impact BD Practices Allan, Without putting to fine a point on it. Personally, I would prefer something that came out of the back end of a cow, mixed with my food than any thing from Monsanto. Gil Allan Balliett wrote: If you're monitoring SANET or Elaine Inghams compost tea discussion group, you already know that the USDA organic rules group has been advised to restrict the use of compost teas on food crops. This applies particularly to teas that use added sugars (mollasses, for example). Already, however, it appears that the rule may be generalized to 'ban' all cow manure based teas. The chances of this impacting BD 500 and BC is very high. Of course, this only applies to people who are interested in receiving USDA organic certification, but the possibility of truly negative publicity is very high. I don't have all the details on these events, and what I've said above may be misleading. What I have to say most importantly is that we need to gather all the information we can on this move by the USDA organic group and discuss it among ourselves so we are prepared to speak out on it and more importantly, to talk intelligently to our customers about the difference between biodynamically grown foods and USDA organics. -Allan
Re: CDT
I thought that -5GMT is EST, since the east coast of the US is 5 hours behind the UK... weird, stacey The Gemini MOON Conjuncts unaspected SATURN at 4:01 AM CDT -5GMT, and goes Void of Course for 2 hours and 9 minutes. Everything is tremendously quiet. This latest experience of the collective Shadow is something to take stock of. I don't know about anyone else, but my own dreams have been insisting on the presence and acceptance of a very personal Shadow during these latest collective tragedies. Shadow never disappears...we can only do our best to accept the darkest aspects of our personal Psyche as essential to the process of attaining full awareness of Being. = @@@ Stacey Elin Rossi [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://zip.to/anaserene @@@ __ Do you Yahoo!? Y! Web Hosting - Let the expert host your web site http://webhosting.yahoo.com/
Re: RoundUp
Gil, We had a marvelous green manure crop this spring which, when we couldn't get control of it in the vine row, completely shut down vine growth in early summer. It is a young vineyard and apparently very sensitive to competition. Once the green manure crop finally fell away natually, the more noxious north coast weeds began to appear because of our irrigation. In some areas we did sow a clover vine row cover crop, but it was just a competitive. It's sad that next door, my conventional farming neighbor who uses a pre-emergent over the winter and then regularly applied RoundUp through teh growing season had much better growth and vigor with less water and a lot less fertilizer. We had hoped toonly try to keep the 18" around each vine clear, but that is turning out to be impractical and next season we are going for an 18" to 24" wide strip. The aisles will continue to have cover crop in them providing habitat. Our biggest concern this year is getting in to the vineyard at the right pointsin time over the winer to use the vinegar and the number of passes we'll have to make each season since vinegar has not effect on the roots. Peter
Re: Shadow
Dear Markess, Are you in Minnesota? I just returned from a Sierra Club conference at Kentucky State University Farm. Mark Ritchie (president of the Institute for Agriculture and Trade Policy www.iatp.org) was the key note speaker the night of the plane crash. Of course he was a close personnel friend of the entire Wellstone family, and it made for an extremely touching lecture by Mark on the concepts of Sustainability and Survival as they relate to agriculture, environment and the future of this planet. I am sorry about this tragedy. Wendel Berry also spoke about the need for continuous dialog and redefinition, to keep the concepts such as organic and sustainability alive. In a personal converation, he told me, in response to concerns I have regarding our own KY Dept. of Ag Organic Certification Program falling apart as a result of the USDA impostion, that 'its got to be about Trust'. And in his talk (Wendel Berry) , gave a new definition for sustainable. 1)Nothing is wasted 2)Perenniality (of both landscape and the people on the land) 3)Diversity Christy - Original Message - From: Moen Creek [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: BDNow [EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Saturday, October 26, 2002 11:53 AM Subject: Shadow Saturday 10/26/02 Via http://kristo.com The Gemini MOON Conjuncts unaspected SATURN at 4:01 AM CDT -5GMT, and goes Void of Course for 2 hours and 9 minutes. Everything is tremendously quiet. This latest experience of the collective Shadow is something to take stock of. I don't know about anyone else, but my own dreams have been insisting on the presence and acceptance of a very personal Shadow during these latest collective tragedies. Shadow never disappears...we can only do our best to accept the darkest aspects of our personal Psyche as essential to the process of attaining full awareness of Being. --- My level of paranoia is nearly palpable with the loss of Well*stone. The shock is measurable though. I guess in comparison to the DC area folks at least in this case there is a feeling of culpability not just the unknown. There is a rhythm and a field however hard to divine. In Love Light Markess
Re: Shadow
Christy-- Markess is in Wisconsin, I believe, but that's just like being here in Minnesota--where it's also cold and cloudy. Sen. Wellstone was my beloved senator. He represented me--as I often said: Wellstone's MY man. Now I'll be borrowing Markess' wonderful Sen. Feingold. My first awareness of Paul Wellstone was when I used to work for a bankruptcy attorney during the farm crisis in the early '80's. The trustee was needed to handle all the farm bankruptcies. Paul Wellstone worked with a group called Groundswell. They protested at bank foreclosures and forced farm auctions. They made a difference and his popularity with farmers is legendary. The real farmers are REALLY sad. A lot of people are REALLY sad. Susan Are you in Minnesota? I just returned from a Sierra Club conference atC Kentucky State University Farm. Mark Ritchie (president of the Institute for Agriculture and Trade Policy www.iatp.org) was the key note speaker the night of the plane crash. Of course he was a close personnel friend of the entire Wellstone family, and it made for an extremely touching lecture by Mark on the concepts of Sustainability and Survival as they relate to agriculture, environment and the future of this planet. I am sorry about this tragedy. Wendel Berry also spoke about the need for continuous dialog and redefinition, to keep the concepts such as organic and sustainability alive. In a personal converation, he told me, in response to concerns I have regarding our own KY Dept. of Ag Organic Certification Program falling apart as a result of the USDA impostion, that 'its got to be about Trust'. And in his talk (Wendel Berry) , gave a new definition for sustainable. 1)Nothing is wasted 2)Perenniality (of both landscape and the people on the land) 3)Diversity Christy My level of paranoia is nearly palpable with the loss of Well*stone. The shock is measurable though. I guess in comparison to the DC area folks at least in this case there is a feeling of culpability not just the unknown. There is a rhythm and a field however hard to divine. In Love Light Markess
Re: Thanks to all BD people for being here on earth with me
My memories of the BD Conference in Lovettsville are so nourishing to my spirit. I wish I could get in a time machine and experience it all over again any time I want to. We are on the same wave length, and it means so much. Best, Merla Hang on to those sweet feelings of brotherhood magnified by being with so many that you had to explain so little to, Merla. Once back in the world where communication means either explaining or apologizing, that wonderful post-conference glow tends to rend and blow away like the finest of tissues, leaving one back in the normalness of life. What incentive there is to work for a world where everyone understands Spirit and respects those who work through that realm -Allan
Re: Rainmaking in Santa Fe... a question for Peter B
All: I have recently read a book that explains the interaction of the author with nature spirits and it gave me a better understanding of their place in the scheme of things. The book is Nature Spirits Elemental Beings by Marko Pogacnik. Published by Findhorn Press. IBSN1 899171 66 5 I recommend it for those such as I who struggle with the concept. David C - Original Message - From: Peter Michael Bacchus [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Thursday, 24 October 2002 8:20 PM Subject: Re: Rainmaking in Santa Fe... a question for Peter B Hi Rex and list members, The publication we are studying is titled:- WORLD ETHER _-_ ELEMENTAL BEINGS -- KINGDOMS OF NATURE. It is a compilation of texts from Steiner with a commentary by Ernst Hagemann, and translated by Harold Jurgens. ISBN 0-929979-31-1 Copyright 1993 Mercury Press 241 Hungry Hollow Road, Spring Valley NY 10977 U.S.A. If you can find it it is well worth studying and living with for a time. Cheers, Peter. - Original Message - From: Rex Teague [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Saturday, October 19, 2002 6:05 PM Subject: Re: Rainmaking in Santa Fe... a question for Peter B On 17 Oct 02, Peter Michael Bacchus wrote: ---8--- So in careing for our environment we need to concern ourselves lovingly with with the nature beings. ---8--- This is indeed an interesting study. Peter... what is the basis of your study, can you suggest a book or some other material? I perceive ?something? about the state of the plants, soil, springs/water etc of our property and environs and I wish to better understand the message(s). Thanks... Rex
Re: Using the preps
Daniel: Yes problems do develop if you do not use all the preps, this has been discussed at length previously, I suggest a visit to the archives. David C - Original Message - From: RiverValley [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Saturday, 26 October 2002 4:27 PM Subject: Using the preps Hi All, Could problems develop from using some of the preps but not all. like just using 500, 501 and 508. thanks, Daniel - Original Message - From: Tony Nelson-Smith [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Friday, October 25, 2002 9:13 AM Subject: Re: Cancer etc Sunny (in particular) - Even amongst fairly mainstream sufferers, attitude and a willingness to accept unconventional therapies seem to have very positive results. An acquaintance with colon cancer was given only months to live but, with the help of a very positive attitude and a diet worked out by the Bristol Centre, survived for several years; yet medical 'wisdom' still regularly dismisses such influences. I wasn't at that time aware of anthroposophical medicine or other, more spiritual alternative therapies - maybe, had I been able to pass on to him the suggestions arising from this thread, he'd still be with us! Tony N-S. _ Surf the Web without missing calls! Get MSN Broadband. http://resourcecenter.msn.com/access/plans/freeactivation.asp
Re: RoundUp
Hi! Peter, If the cover crop is slowing vine growth, it suggests that there is a Nitrogen shortage. The cut cover crop and any mulch is mostly carbon and needs a specific proportion of nitrogen to break it down. It is important to start with a legume with the right inoculant to help set nitrogen from the air, into the soil, in a form the plant can use. The break down of carbon, also uses large amounts of nitrogen, which may be what has happened. When you get a nitrogen credit in the soil, it is OK to have a non nitrogen fixing cover crop. The use of the Preps will help the whole process. I also use the combined compost Preps, sprayed onto the freshly slashed cover crop, which seems to help it break down. If you have the time and a good Whipper Snipper, using the line, not blade, you can make a little guard on a long handle, which you can put against the butt of the vine and slash right to the butt, at ground level. I do not see properly managed cover crops as competing. They will keep out weeds and should produce all the N and C your crop requires. While they will use some water, if slashed fairly often, they also reduce water loss from bare soil and the effect of heat on the root run. In Oz with our mainly shallow soils, it is important to use all of it we can. A sun dried inch or two is wasted country and it also kills feeder roots. Gil J Peter Young wrote: Gil, We had a marvelous green manure crop this spring which, when we couldn't get control of it in the vine row, completely shut down vine growth in early summer. It is a young vineyard and apparently very sensitive to competition. Once the green manure crop finally fell away natually, the more noxious north coast weeds began to appear because of our irrigation. In some areas we did sow a clover vine row cover crop, but it was just a competitive. It's sad that next door, my conventional farming neighbor who uses a pre-emergent over the winter and then regularly applied RoundUp through teh growing season had much better growth and vigor with less water and a lot less fertilizer. We had hoped to only try to keep the 18 around each vine clear, but that is turning out to be impractical and next season we are going for an 18 to 24 wide strip. The aisles will continue to have cover crop in them providing habitat. Our biggest concern this year is getting in to the vineyard at the right points in time over the winer to use the vinegar and the number of passes we'll have to make each season since vinegar has not effect on the roots. Peter
Loss and Rebirth
Thanks Susan As a fellow Minnesotan I fully agree with what you say about the deep sadness permeating our state regarding the loss of the Wellstones. I sit here still in mixed grief and continued disbelief. Lost and confused what to do, my wife Rebekah and I attended the Peace Rally yesterday along with 10,000 others. Our hearts swelled when we heard there were 200,000 others rallying for peace in D.C. Our event flooded into an emotional memorial to the great national loss of Senator Wellstone and his family. Just as important, though, we noticed that something fresh is being reborn inside us and inside others. For the FIRST TIME since the reign of the current administration we are beginning to feel we can find our voices again to PROTEST governmental policies and NOT have to whither under the remarks by some that we are anti-American. We now remember that we can vehemently express our opposition to certain policies such as the Agricultural policies or even a preemptive first strike and NOT have to take any guff about being anti-American. Again, we are NOT being anti-American when we speak out. For the first time in decades I can and do say I love America but I will also stand up and fight against some of her policies. Awake in Minnesota, Will Winter
