Re: CT=BDcompost,preps+Alaska humus, forest humus kelp
Thanks, Frank, I appreciate your good thoughts on this matter. I have a long way to go to come up to snuff on many aspects of our own farming practices as well as the road project. I can see I need to put more time in goal-setting and planning for both. My Dad was raised on a farm in Hickson, TN, and had to come home from school and hoe strawberries until he got nosebleeds. He did not want to make a living as a farmer. He got a job with the Corps of Engineers during the Depression and stayed with that until he retired. He had 100 12 foot high camellias in the back yard and I used to go out there with him and he would show me the blooms on each bush and tell me their variety name. My mother and I would often wear camellias to Sunday School and Church. He also had tomato plants in the small sunny space under the pine canopy that were luscious. When I started my first garden in Cambridge, MA, my dad drove from Mobile, AL to Cambridge with a sack of compost, a gallon can of worms and some tools. I'll never forget our time in my garden with me trying to hoe. He finally said, Sister, you can't hoe, took the hoe and made expert, definite, sure strokes with it compared to my tentative, timid ones. I loved him very much. I saw your compost page on another site, I think. I still don't know whether you are Frank Jr. or Frank Sr., If you are Frank Jr., you learned a lot from your Dad. Best, Merla Frank Teuton wrote: Hi Merla, I am not an 'experienced BD person', more of a fellow traveller I suppose. In your place I would consult with my local certification body and follow their lead in terms of compost tea. Compost tea for use on fresh produce and fruit for raw consumption should be made with great care using ingredients of known character, and free from any risk of contaminationand it may be also be banned at any moment, that is how fragile its situation is Compost tea for other crops may or may not be useful and you have to be the judge of that for yourself. Compost tea would be permitted for any use where raw manure would be accepted, and it is a heck of a lot easier to apply than raw manure in lots of places Some landscaping companies out there use it to stabilize slopes being replanted, and like that...it may be useful to establish plantings of roadside species you want, to occupy space that might otherwise be invaded by unwanted plants, aka weeds...and these are not environments where the food safety issues that drive the compost tea controversy are at play. Re the flip flop Allan has done from his previous 'soil scientist du jour' to his new ones, I think there is no real basis for a rush to judgment. Sometimes it seems to me that Allan is 'turned on' by the latest person he has heard speakingwhich is not a bad thing in itself...but here, the jury is still out, and only time and practical tests will tell if aerated compost tea, or stirred occasionally compost teas, or other forms of microbial phyllosphere/rhizosphere interventions are worth using all the time, some of the time, or not at all for most situations. Allan is certainly right about this, that there are industrial motives at work here. The compost tea makers, including some who do, and some who don't, support Dr Ingham, and the soil testing professionals, including Ingham, Will Brinton and Vicki Bess, are all industries with a stake in this dispute. Nonetheless, the dispute about the practical efficacy of different sorts of compost teas, including aerobic nutrient added ones, is not an industrial dispute, but a scientific one, and will ultimately be resolved by running tests on crops under controlled conditions, meaning here one kind of tea in the same field with the same crop, here another kind, here no teas, and here perhaps other controls for the same problem. In my view the need for Dissolved Oxygen meters and concerns about pathogen regrowth, plus ideally a fair amount of testing, means that roll your own aerobic-nutrient added CT for fresh produce is outside the realm of really small growers. Costs in time and expenses would indicate that. But by buying a proven system and OMRI listed ingredients for it you might be able to still make certification and not spend a fortune. Larger growers should still keep an open mind about them, I think. The argument that molasses is 'simple sugar' (molasses is in fact what is left over after the extraction of simple sugar) and will lead to a 'distortion' of compost microorganism diversity is about as persuasive as the argument that composted manure is unnatural and should not be applied in large amounts on fields and gardens. After all, one should not exceed the amount of manure that would naturally be applied in a 'wild' pasture, eh? ;-) But, farmers and gardeners the world around have found that yes indeed composted manure makes a fine amendment for growing vegetables and other crops, and so here we all are.
Re: In light of the Heightened Security State here in the Homeland, read this:
yeah, I believe that...wanna by a bridge??? sstorch
Re: COMPOST TEA was Re: Perry's recnt posts
Also stated by York is that even bd is not an answer in and of itself for a system as complex as a monoculture as an overhybridized vineyard. Premium viticulture and great farming practices are part and parcel. The tea is poo-pooed by Brinton because he did not raise it to the level it has attained. The science is young, but think of the diversity you can bring to the soil in a monoculture situation with these teas in a cheap fashion. diversity is the key here...sstorch
Re: In light of the Heightened Security State here in the Homeland, read this:
I grow weary of Orwellion philosophy , external power is so boring , it is always the same... On Sunday, February 9, 2003, at 06:18 AM, [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: yeah, I believe that...wanna by a bridge??? sstorch
Re: full of crap
Oops, long week. Guess you can tell where I get my fish? (From a store where there are the choices between farm raised, wild, imported from far wide via NYC's Fulton Fish Market.) Don't think my landlords would go for a pond, yet. Humbly, Jane From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Reply-To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Date: Sat, 8 Feb 2003 11:20:15 -0600 To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Subject: full of crap thank you Jane, for that enlightened statement. Farmed fish are usually full of antibiotics and other crap
Re: full of fish
I don't have any idea what 'organically grown' greenhouse fish would require though. Cornmeal, boiled egg, mealworms plus algae? My understanding is that Tilapia can gain size and reproduce with a diet of no more than greenhouse scraps. You definitely don't want to fertilize your greenhosue with fish effluent during the low sun months. Toxic nitrogen problems are the result. (Again, see New Alchemy papers.) Tilapia also like chicken shit, I understand. It's amazing to see that this fast growing fish is competing with salmon and tuna price-wise in the markets here. -Allan
Re: COMPOST TEA was Re: Perry's recnt posts
Also stated by York is that even bd is not an answer in and of itself for a system as complex as a monoculture as an overhybridized vineyard. The tea is poo pooed by Brinton because he says that other, less expensive, less labor consuming methods will produce the same results. Will published on this in BIODYNAMICS in the early 90's. York's message has always been, in any situation, that the preps are NOT magic, that they are a necessary input to a fully developed horticultural needs of the crop and a mature agriculural understanding of the needs of the soils. Practical as he is, one never hears of him creating a scenario in which the preps are left out. That said, York will still tell you that the preps will not work miracles by themselves. Saddest news I had late last week was that JPI has had no increase in inquiries after the Alt. Vit Conference. What about you, Steve? Have you gotten much follow up? -Allan
Support for York and Sally Fallon Talks
If you still can't access these sound files, check out www.fibl.ch/indexx. There's an option there to ask questions of a RealAudio technician. Hopefully, somone will take the time to do this and bring us all up to speed. Thanks Audio Allan
Tilapia
Tilapia also like chicken shit, I understand. ThenI definitely need to research this. My chickens stand around on my porch and traverse my path to the horses and goats, pooping healthily as they go. John is mortified that I said I need 'more laying hens', that we'll be awash in chicken poop. We're talking golf ball size 'tilapia food' here. To me tilapia looks a little like a pirana, I suspect their feeding habits are somewhat similar (anything and everything). You may say 'ewww' at the thought of eating fish that ate chicken shit, but consider the catfish. Farm raised around here in big ponds, and even the wild ones are a scavenger fish, scraping and cleaning up the messes nothing else wants.
Re: In light of the Heightened Security State here in the Homeland, read this:
I think he means the Peace Bridge at Windsor, ON. Michael - Original Message - From: Allan Balliett [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Sunday, February 09, 2003 6:43 AM Subject: Re: In light of the Heightened Security State here in the Homeland, read this: yeah, I believe that...wanna by a bridge??? sstorch Dear SS - Sorry, didn't catch your meaning - Allan
Re: In light of the Heightened Security State here in theHomeland, read this:
It would have to be the Canadian Peace Bridge, wherever it is located, because American bombs destroyed the beautiful Peace/Holocaust Memorial Bridge in Belgrade that was designed by Einstein's son. It cannot be replaced. And yes it is true that Al Qaeda was heavily involved in the terrorist war against the Serbs as stated in Allan's post. And yes Clinton and Albright did side with the Islamic terrorists as part of breaking up Yugoslavia for the benefit of the Euro. They conducted a high altitude bombing of the Serbian civilian population which is technically a war crime. Where was the Hollywood peace movement then? Oh, then it was Clinton's war. Bob Thorson I think he means the Peace Bridge at Windsor, ON. Michael - Original Message - From: Allan Balliett [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Sunday, February 09, 2003 6:43 AM Subject: Re: In light of the Heightened Security State here in the Homeland, read this: yeah, I believe that...wanna by a bridge??? sstorch Dear SS - Sorry, didn't catch your meaning - Allan
Re: In light of the Heightened Security State here in the Homeland, read this:
Actually, I think that Steve meant the Brooklyn Bridge. For eons, it has represented gullability (I have this bridge for sale at just the right price...). Essie At 12:19 PM 02/09/03 -0500, you wrote: It would have to be the Canadian Peace Bridge, wherever it is located, because American bombs destroyed the beautiful Peace/Holocaust Memorial Bridge in Belgrade that was designed by Einstein's son. It cannot be replaced. And yes it is true that Al Qaeda was heavily involved in the terrorist war against the Serbs as stated in Allan's post. And yes Clinton and Albright did side with the Islamic terrorists as part of breaking up Yugoslavia for the benefit of the Euro. They conducted a high altitude bombing of the Serbian civilian population which is technically a war crime. Where was the Hollywood peace movement then? Oh, then it was Clinton's war. Bob Thorson I think he means the Peace Bridge at Windsor, ON. Michael - Original Message - From: Allan Balliett [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Sunday, February 09, 2003 6:43 AM Subject: Re: In light of the Heightened Security State here in the Homeland, read this: yeah, I believe that...wanna by a bridge??? sstorch Dear SS - Sorry, didn't catch your meaning - Allan
Re: In light of the Heightened Security State here in the Homeland, read this:
At 12:31 PM -0500 2/9/03, Essie Hull wrote: Actually, I think that Steve meant the Brooklyn Bridge. For eons, it has represented gullability (I have this bridge for sale at just the right price...). Essie Yes, that was obvious several layers of meaning ago. Are you saying that anyone giving serious consideration to the information at the Web site that Allan posted, viz http://www.globalresearch.ca/articles/DCH109A.html, is gullible? If so, perhaps you and/or sstorch could tell us why the research is wrong. Bob
Re: In light of the Heightened Security State here in the Homeland, read this:
Bob- I was just giving my take on the bridge reference. I've not examined the website in any detail. Perhaps Steve has. Essie At 12:45 PM 02/09/03 -0500, you wrote: At 12:31 PM -0500 2/9/03, Essie Hull wrote: Actually, I think that Steve meant the Brooklyn Bridge. For eons, it has represented gullability (I have this bridge for sale at just the right price...). Essie Yes, that was obvious several layers of meaning ago. Are you saying that anyone giving serious consideration to the information at the Web site that Allan posted, viz http://www.globalresearch.ca/articles/DCH109A.html, is gullible? If so, perhaps you and/or sstorch could tell us why the research is wrong. Bob
Re: In light of the Heightened Security State here in the Homeland, read this:
And yes it is true that Al Qaeda was heavily involved in the terrorist war against the Serbs as stated in Allan's post. And yes Clinton and Albright did side with the Islamic terrorists as part of breaking up Yugoslavia for the benefit of the Euro. They conducted a high altitude bombing of the Serbian civilian population which is technically a war crime. Where was the Hollywood peace movement then? Oh, then it was Clinton's war. I think the truth is Al Qaeda was started up by US/Saudi money way before Clinton in the previous Afgan war during the Reagan/Bush Sr. era. Alan's facts are, of course, correct.
Peace Bridge
Looks like Essie is right as Steve is American and wouldn't think about any bridge outside the borders of USA. The bridge that connects Windsor to Detroit is actually called the Peace Bridge officially. Michael
Who is harming americans the most
Hello , I came across this little pearl... K U.S. Deaths in 2002 from terrorism: 4,000 +/- U.S. Deaths in 2002 from Automobile Accidents: 40,000 + U.S. Deaths in 2002 from Tobacco Related Causes: 400,000 + Kind RegardsKaren Summerhays. Regional Councillor Ph 07 544 3858Environment BOP Fax 07 544 3838Tauranga Constituency Waikite Rd, R D 5[EMAIL PROTECTED] TAURANGA - Original Message - From: Eric Myren To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Wednesday, February 05, 2003 4:09 PM Subject: Crystaline Structure in Water Has anyone on the list every done work on the effects of music on plants or water or the water in plants? I know this may not exactly be Steiner inspired but it has peaked my interest because I was just sent a link by my mother-in law that has some absolutely awe inspiring photos of water that have been exposed to various types of music and other forms of stimulus. By showing the affect on the crystallization structure of the water, it clearly demonstrates the effects of intension on physical matter.://www.adhikara.com/water.html again this site has photographs p.s. Is any one in dryer areas of the planet using flow forms to enliven the water that they do have?
Re: Peace Bridge
Title: Re: Peace Bridge Actually and officially the Detroit-Windsor bridge is called the Ambassador Bridge. The Peace Bridge is near Niagara Falls. Bob Looks like Essie is right as Steve is American and wouldn't think about any bridge outside the borders of USA. The bridge that connects Windsor to Detroit is actually called the Peace Bridge officially. Michael
Re: Who is harming americans the most
Well, we already have a war against smoking in the US. Perhap a war against the automobile would be in order. Michael
how can i unsubscribe?
Please help me to unsubscribe. [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: In light of the Heightened Security State here in the Homeland, read this:
In a message dated 2/9/03 12:27:34 PM, [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes: Actually, I think that Steve meant the Brooklyn Bridge. For eons, it has represented gullability (I have this bridge for sale at just the right price...). Essie Bingo, that means you're right...sstorch
Re: COMPOST TEA was Re: Perry's recnt posts
In a message dated 2/9/03 9:50:43 AM, [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes: What about you, Steve? Have you gotten much follow up? -Allan I offered Marc Chien to do a practical work day rigging and inoculating a brewer with stirring and applying some bd remedies. Your November conf should include that. There is a big interest from Eric Morgan at Organic Approach...sstorch
please,take me off of your mailing list
Please could you unsubscribe me address from your list. [EMAIL PROTECTED] sam koontz
Re: In light of the Heightened Security State here in the Homeland, read this:
Where was the Hollywood peace movement then? Oh, then it was Clinton's war. Never Clinton's war. John F. Kennedy learned the hard way to not interfere with the machinations of America's secret armies. Clinton was another. Years ago, During a live broadcast from a black histroy event a hapless reporter for Pacifica Radio happened to say 'Hey, there's comedian Dick Gregory, let's ask him what he thinks about the Clinton impeachment!' Gregory simply stated that the entire Monica affair followed by the 'impeachment' was a manuever by the REAL GOVERNMENT to coerce Clinton into conforming to their agenda. we don't have a real coup here, we just have puppets in office. Shortly after that, Clinton bombed Iraq and after that the impeachment sort of floated away. Aside from every other possible goal: does anyone know how much money Clinton's bombing raid took out of the public coffers and put into the pockets of the military industrail establishment and then, after that, into the vaults of just a few individuals? My first prayer is that Mr. Storch will make an effort to express himself with less ambiguity. -Allan
Re: Peace Bridge
Title: Re: Peace Bridge thanks, Bob, You are right. I'm a Westerner. Forgive me. Michael - Original Message - From: Bob Thorson To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Sunday, February 09, 2003 12:44 PM Subject: Re: Peace Bridge Actually and officially the Detroit-Windsor bridge is called the Ambassador Bridge. The Peace Bridge is near Niagara Falls. Bob Looks like Essie is right as Steve is American and wouldn't think about any bridge outside the borders of USA. The bridge that connects Windsor to Detroit is actually called the Peace Bridge officially. Michael
RE: In light of the Heightened Security State here in the Homeland, read this:
Allan That was Serbia not Iraq Zoran -Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]] On Behalf Of Allan Balliett Sent: Sunday, February 09, 2003 11:16 PM To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Subject: Re: In light of the Heightened Security State here in the Homeland, read this: Where was the Hollywood peace movement then? Oh, then it was Clinton's war. Never Clinton's war. John F. Kennedy learned the hard way to not interfere with the machinations of America's secret armies. Clinton was another. Years ago, During a live broadcast from a black histroy event a hapless reporter for Pacifica Radio happened to say 'Hey, there's comedian Dick Gregory, let's ask him what he thinks about the Clinton impeachment!' Gregory simply stated that the entire Monica affair followed by the 'impeachment' was a manuever by the REAL GOVERNMENT to coerce Clinton into conforming to their agenda. we don't have a real coup here, we just have puppets in office. Shortly after that, Clinton bombed Iraq and after that the impeachment sort of floated away. Aside from every other possible goal: does anyone know how much money Clinton's bombing raid took out of the public coffers and put into the pockets of the military industrail establishment and then, after that, into the vaults of just a few individuals? My first prayer is that Mr. Storch will make an effort to express himself with less ambiguity. -Allan
Re: Who is harming americans the most
Why would they want to destroy what they think is driving (no pun intended) the economy. On Sunday, February 9, 2003, at 01:44 PM, mroboz wrote: Well, we already have a war against smoking in the US. Perhap a war against the automobile would be in order. Michael
Re: Tilapia
In a message dated 2/9/03 10:51:50 AM, [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes: Tilapia also like chicken shit, I understand. Just because they eat it do you think that is right? I wouldn't want to eat that. What quality protein do you expect to grow with that feed? What kind of dis-ease are you going to generate? sstorch This would be their choice. Clean up after ducks in ponds, chickens in the greenhouse. Given the right diet in the cow, pigs will free choice cow patties, also. Can't remember how the disease cycle goes: from duck to swine, defitely, from chicken to fish, I'm not certain..
RE: In light of the Heightened Security State here in the Homeland, read this:
Allan That was Serbia not Iraq Zoran Thanks, Zoran, I admit that I don't pay enough attention to the horrors. -Allan
Re: COMPOST TEA was Re: Perry's recnt posts
You're listed as a speaker at the Nov 14 conference We can put that as your topic, if you'd like. each speaker is getting from 3-4 hours to make their case. The time does not have to be contiguous, however. http://www.gardeningforthefuture.com/biodyn and push the banner I offered Marc Chien to do a practical work day rigging and inoculating a brewer with stirring and applying some bd remedies. Your November conf should include that.
Re: Back on the AY Soundfiles
Allan, I have been able to listen to the York interview, however, I cannot save the file to my hard disk in order to listen to it offline. Any tips? I did download the latest version of realplayer, but I do not see any option for saving sound files. Thanks, Bob Shaffer
Tilapia
However the fish in the pond have some choice as to what they eat. In a tank or in any industrial animal operation, you are essentially engaging in force feeding. The issue to a biodynamic farmer, who takes into account the spiritual effects of his/her methods, would be how those methods support the development and quality of life of the animals involved--not just the human beings at the top of the food chain. It seems to me that animals raised in confinement are being treated like machines, something I would think we in biodynamics would not endorse as healthy sound spiritual husbandry. Deborah **
Re: Back on the AY Soundfiles
Allan, I have been able to listen to the York interview, however, I cannot save the file to my hard disk in order to listen to it offline. Any tips? I did download the latest version of realplayer, but I do not see any option for saving sound files. Bob - Sorry, that's the point of RealAudio: you can listen to it but you can't own it. The way you get around that is launch a transciption application on your machine. It will record whatever is going to the speaker so, in effect, you do download the file by listening to it. What do you think of York? What do you think of that word 'Holistic' for what you and York do? I think it is just right, but lamed by inappropriate over use. What do you think?
Re: Tilapia
However the fish in the pond have some choice as to what they eat. In a tank or in any industrial animal operation, you are essentially engaging in force feeding. The issue to a biodynamic farmer, who takes into account the spiritual effects of his/her methods, would be how those methods support the development and quality of life of the animals involved--not just the human beings at the top of the food chain. It seems to me that animals raised in confinement are being treated like machines, something I would think we in biodynamics would not endorse as healthy sound spiritual husbandry. good points, Deborah. These are among the reasons why we never raised our own fish here in Balliettville. -Allan Deborah **
Re: Farm Fish
- Original Message - From: Deborah Byron [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Monday, February 10, 2003 11:46 AM Subject: Tilapia Hello all fishy people, We are in drought in the land of Aus and farm water storages drying up fast, last week while pumping the last of a small farm dam (pond) to cart water for sheep we discovered some fish - escapees from a larger storage up the chain that we stocked in 1996 . We took 8 really nice golden perch (aussie natives) one of the premier table fish in this part of the world, averaging 3kg each live - worth about $40 -$60 each in the city fish markets - the water was teeming with life including a couple of crayfish and bucketfuls of guppie type small fish, insects etc - and the fish fat - obviously plenty of food in this small water (about 20 meters X 10 ). My brother has a fish farm commercial scale but he can't farm these fish as they wont take pellet feed, that would be my advice to anyone wanting to have some fish as a sideline - grow a top quality variety that wont eat crap food - at least then when you harvest you have something special. Cheers all Lloyd Charles
FW: [globalnews] Porter Township, Pennsylvania, passesAnti-Corporation Ordinance
Title: FW: [globalnews] Porter Township, Pennsylvania, passes Anti-Corporation Ordinance Porter Township ordinance attracts national attention By Tom DiStefano, CLARION NEWS Writer LIMESTONE - The supervisors of Porter Township, Clarion County, made history in December, and their actions are attracting nationwide attention, according to Tom Linzey, head of an organization that assists local governments in environmental issues. On Dec. 6, the township adopted what Linzey said is the first ordinance in the nation declaring that corporations are not people. The ordinance was drafted by Linzey's organization, the Community Environmental Legal Defense Fund (CELDF), based in Chambersburg, in partnership with the Program on Corporations, Law, and Democracy (POCLAD). Linzey spoke to a crowd of about 100 in the Limestone Fire Hall at a meeting sponsored by local groups battling proposals to spread sewage sludge as fertilizer on farms in southern Clarion County. Porter Township adopted an ordinance in September that required each truckload of sludge brought into the township be tested for compliance with state regulations. The sludge spreader must pay the cost of the testing. Several other local townships followed suit by adopting similar ordinance last year. Porter took an extra step and adopted what is known as the Corporate Personhood Elimination and Democracy Protection Ordinance, as part of a defensive strategy in case the township was sued over the sludge testing ordinance, Linzey said. Linzey said suits against townships have been brought over attempts to regulate sewage sludge and factory farms. These suits include, as part of their justification, the claim that corporations have the same Constitutional rights as human beings. The Porter Township ordinance counters that by declaring that, within the township, Corporations shall not be considered to be 'persons' protected by the Constitution of the United States or the Constitution of the Commonwealth of Pennsylvania Linzey said CELDF drafted the ordinance when it realized we can't have democracy when large corporations wield their legal rights against communities to deny the rights of citizens to build sustainable communities. If corporations can veto local decisions, we can't get to democracy, Linzey said. The concept is important when dealing with sludge and factory farm issues, which often pit small, rural municipalities against large corporations. Linzey outlined some of the background and history that led to the personhood ordinance. In the 1990's a teenage boy died of a massive infection after riding an ATV on a field that has been spread with sewage sludge. The incident happened in Rush Township, Clearfield County, and the township supervisors there responded by adopting the state's first sewage sludge testing ordinance, a forerunner to Porter Township's sludge ordinance. Synagro Corporation, the contractor that spread the sludge, promptly sued Rush Township for violating Synagro's constitutional rights. Synagro also sued the township's supervisors personally for $1 million each. When the Rush Township supervisors were told of the suit, one township supervisor said, 'what the hell are the constitutional rights of corporations?' Linzey recalled. Linzey traced the idea back several hundred years. In colonial America, there were few corporations, but they were large and powerful. Many of the original colonies were founded by the large British exploratory corporations, such as the Hudson's Bay Company. It was these large corporations which pressured England to levy a tax on tea; a decision which led to the Boston Tea Party and a general revolt by American colonists. After the American Revolution, Linzey said, corporations were kept on a tight leash. One corporation could not own another corporation. Now that practice is so widespread we can't tell who owns what. In the early days of the US, corporations could only be formed to undertake public projects, and could only exist for a given period of time. To be re-chartered after the time was up, they had to show they existed for the general public good. At one time, the directors and officers of a corporation could be held personally responsible for the actions of the corporation. Now, Linzey said, the directors and officers are shielded from personal responsibility, and the corporations themselves are shielded by setting up other corporations. Corporations gradually regained favor and power in the US, and in 1886, the US Supreme Court, with no explanation, declared that corporations had the same rights as people. Known as the Santa Clara Decision, the ruling involved a legal dispute between the Union Pacific Railroad, then one of the most powerful corporations in the nation, and the government of Santa Clara County, California, over property tax assessments. Linzey said he expects that, eventually, the issue will find its way back to the Supreme Court, perhaps eight to 12 years
Re: Tilapia
Beautifully said. jeff
Fwd: Tilapia
Fish ponds are quite the norm on farms through out Asia. Providing food for the farmer and fertilizer for the fields. Begin forwarded message: From: Allan Balliett [EMAIL PROTECTED] Date: Sun Feb 9, 2003 6:08:51 PM America/Edmonton To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Subject: Re: Tilapia Reply-To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] However the fish in the pond have some choice as to what they eat. In a tank or in any industrial animal operation, you are essentially engaging in force feeding. The issue to a biodynamic farmer, who takes into account the spiritual effects of his/her methods, would be how those methods support the development and quality of life of the animals involved--not just the human beings at the top of the food chain. It seems to me that animals raised in confinement are being treated like machines, something I would think we in biodynamics would not endorse as healthy sound spiritual husbandry. good points, Deborah. These are among the reasons why we never raised our own fish here in Balliettville. -Allan Deborah **
Re: Tilapia
Beautifully said. jeff Thank you, Jeff, for exposing the flaws in the 'no quote' rule!! -Allan
Re: Tilapia
Tersely put
bitter tonight
I'll be better tomorrow, but I just had to vent tonight. Sometimes ya'll make me smile. I thought anything a person could grow, 'in kindness and healthy food and atmosphere' would be preferable to buying at the store. Which is what any homesteader is truly trying to avoid. NO, of course I wouldn't arbitrarily feed chicken shit to anything except the compost pit. OH, but we'll drive this one into the ground, won't we? Maybe there are more 'spiritual' folk on the list than realistic homesteaders/farmers /gardeners after all. Reading this list from the outside, it would appear that most of the members exist on air and lightness, not on food from any recognizeable source. (What do you people eat, anyhow?) I love my home grown foodstuffs. I'm not ashamed to put excess wethers (castrated male goats) in the freezer and I have an abundance of milk and usually some sort of hand made cheeses besides the harvests from the fields. I try to experiment annually with different vegetables in the garden, picking out those things that are unique, have a high food value, and something I can save seed from. I'm always looking for some ways to experiment, (the fish idea being one of them), and once researched fully, have no problem laying the project aside until I can determine further if it's actually warranting a place on my farm or not. But, how highfalutin we all are this isn't good, that is so bad, why would you consider anything else? I love a debate as much as anyone else. There are some sound ideas coming out of this group, only they're very small voices. Hidden between all the know- it-alls. martha, disappointed in the meaness and small- spiritedness of this group.
Re: Perry's recent posts
Thank you, Perry. (You wrote: From: Perry Clutts [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Subject: Re: Perry's recnt posts Date: Sun, 2 Feb 2003 16:10:16 -0500 Hi, Different in that I'm not using the bucket anymore... I'm using a large tank, making my own Barrel Compost to inoculate the tea along with the compost and trying to figure out how to use it on our whole farm, not just in the garden. Perry - You wrote, I'm doing it differently now, but with the same idea... of low cost. -- different how if you'd care to detail?) _ The new MSN 8: advanced junk mail protection and 2 months FREE* http://join.msn.com/?page=features/junkmail
Re: ants in the vanilla
OUCH! On Wednesday, January 29, 2003, at 03:56 AM, Peter Michael Bacchus wrote: Hi Henry, Have you thought of putting a little bit of honey in a wee dish in the middle of a tray or wide bowl and pouring boiling water over when they are there in the greatest numbers. Once the water is cooled spray it over and round the plants to be protected. The number of bowls you need will depend on how much you need to protect. While you are doing it ask them if they would be kind enough to leave your vanilla for you or at least most of it. Your ants may be different to ours and may not respond in the same way that ours do. - Original Message - From: "Roger Pye" [EMAIL PROTECTED]> To: [EMAIL PROTECTED]> Sent: Wednesday, January 29, 2003 4:51 PMOUCH!!! Subject: Re: ants in the vanilla Henry Karczynski wrote: Catnip, mint, chrysanthemum, onion family especially garlic cloves, pennyroyal, tansy, rue as growing or dried plants repel ants so perhaps you could plant some as companion plants roger --
Re: bitter tonight
[EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: I'll be better tomorrow, but I just had to vent tonight. But, how highfalutin we all are this isn't good, that is so bad, why would you consider anything else? I love a debate as much as anyone else. There are some sound ideas coming out of this group, only they're very small voices. Hidden between all the know- it-alls. martha, disappointed in the meaness and small- spiritedness of this group. Ah, Martha, Martha, The reality is that if there was nothing else to eat, nothing at all, humans would eat chicken shit even if they had to put clothes pegs on their noses and wear nappies all the time. Such are the ways of survival in an inhumane world. We all have our ambitions and targets (AND I do promise that I will get that trial and other stuff going before too long) BUT in the face of starvation, deprivation, brutalisation, and all the other 'tions', we would bury them deeper than the cow horns. Fish waste is wonderful stuff. I really mean that although it sounds (and smells) like crap. It could be dried and ground up into fish meal and added to seaweed processed in the same way and the world would have a cheap high protein food full of desirable minerals. But that doesn't happen, instead it finds its way into petfood. There is a wealth of fish in the waters around this little island off the northwest coast of New Zealand - and it generates a wealth of fish waste. Ditto seaweed. Would you believe that the top supplier to Oz of seaweed meal is based in Norway? You said, and I think it bears repeating, 'meanness and small-spiritedness of this group'. But they're not, not really, (notice I said 'they' not 'I' ;) ) they're just people like you and me, people with problems, and mortgages, and dis-ease, and wondering where to go to buy bird seed or soap flakes or non-plastic wrapped cookies, and whether 500 will work on snow-clad ground, people who have been misled into believing all the instructions are on the can lid they threw away last week when in reality all the ways that anything can be done are locked up in that tiny room inside our minds we're always searching for the key for. There are times when the inanities of BDNOW! chat drive me squirly - and I have to say the number thereof outweigh the other times by a long way. But the other times are priceless and they are what I am here for, after all. Aren't we all? roger What we knows, we knows, and what we don't know, we don't want to know!
Re: Crystaline Structure in Water
A long time ago, I went to a talk given by a white man who was the designated spokesman for the Hopis to the outside world who spoke about growing Hopi blue corn. They taught him to sing to his corn every morning. They plant corn very deep in alluvial intermittent creek bottoms in Arizona. This man and his Hopi teacher traveled to Africa to help some people south of the Sahara learn to grow corn in the desert and they were successful. He showed slides and passed a photo album around. I don't remember his name. Best, Merla Eric Myren wrote: Has anyone on the list every done work on the effects of music on plants or water or the water in plants? I know this may not exactly be Steiner inspired but it has peaked my interest because I was just sent a link by my mother-in law that has some absolutely awe inspiring photos of water that have been exposed to various types of music and other forms of stimulus. By showing the affect on the crystallization structure of the water, it clearly demonstrates the effects of intension on physical matter. ://www.adhikara.com/water.html again this site has photographs p.s. Is any one in dryer areas of the planet using flow forms to enliven the water that they do have?
ants in the vanilla, wood roaches on the stove
Last Sunday a very large wood roach climbed up from the side of my stove to see what I was cooking. I was in the process of making breakfast for some visiting relatives and it's appearance reminded my wife of the expensive can of Robocan she wanted to purchase to keep roaches out of our abode. The product promises to rid the roaches from the home, all you have to do is mount the can on a wall so it can fill your home with a hydrocarbon propelled mist that contains pyrethrin, with a sythetic ingrediant that (after an email inquiry) is called piperonyl butoxide, a synergist, that helps pyrethrins to be more effective, and is not a pesticide. I was reading on the net that some meat processing plants use these products in Australia. Does anyone have any ideas about the safety of this product or better yet a better solution to our unwanted wood roach visits? Thanks in advance, RB
