Re: Vitality and fertility ofsoils
Hi Lloyd Do a [google] search on bentonite for Australia. there is a fair bit on the web. Yes, there is a calcium bentonite, which would probably be much better than the sodium bentonite. See the page 'Mineral Information Leaflet 1'. Quoting from Sattler-Wistinghausen, 1985, Der landwirtschaftliche Betrieb biologisch-dynamisch (The agricultural enterprise bio-dynamic), Ulmer, Stuttgart, my bd bible: Addition of bentonite: compost: 1-2 kg/m³ spreading in the garden - not field (sic!) - 0.2-0.4 t/ha (Don't know, why it is okay in the garden, but not in the agricultural field (Acker). Perhaps adding it to the manure is the better way.) liquid manure 200 g/m³ 200 g/100 l spray as additive to the trunk coat and additive as resistance inducing preventative fungicidal sprays in orchards and vineyards. The Al-ions are the effective components. [Hofmann, Köpfer und Werner, 1995, Oekologischer Weinbau (Ecological Viticulture), Ulmer, Stuttgart]. Sorry, I am not biased towards German vs Australian books. These are just the ones I have got, because I had easy access to them. Christiane [EMAIL PROTECTED]@envirolink.org on 02/04/2003 04:01:34 PM Please respond to [EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent by:[EMAIL PROTECTED] To:[EMAIL PROTECTED] cc: Subject:Re: Vitality and fertility ofsoils Hi Christiane Thanks for your input - bentonite sounds like good stuff to me - is there just one bentonite - animal feeders round here use sodium bentonite and I can get some of that - I know soil conservation used to recommend bentonite for repairing leaky dams and I thought I had heard of a calcium bentonite is there such a thing ? Maybe my ears were ringing at the time. > There seem to be two lines of thought: > 1. Stimulating soil life, by making clay minerals available. Bentonite is > a weathering product of volcanic tuffs, usually high Mg containing > montmorillonites. The minerals are easily available to microorganisms and > plants and especially recomended for light sandy soils in small quantities > but frequently. > > 2. "but I'd rather use local paddock reared clay" sounds to me as you > wanting to access energies or, in my interpretation, in the [clay] soils > laid down learning by your environment (or is it of your environment?). I > relate this to deep psychology - accessing the sub- or unconscious deep > learnings and then connect this with what is happening now in an > up-and-down process. Analogously, what about adding little bits of each > soil layer to create an interchange of knowledge between the past and the > present? Nothing so deep, just figuring we have some nice clay here thats a strong part of what this farm is and what the soils will do, why bring in clay from hundreds of miles away ? However for a nutritional kick along, supplying readily available trace minerals - thats a different and interesting subject. What rate of bentonite would you suggest to use on a sandy loam soil? - is it affordable on a broadacre scale? Cheers Lloyd Charles
Re: Vitality and fertility ofsoils
Lloyd, May I have a go as someone who knows precious little about all this. There seem to be two lines of thought: 1. Stimulating soil life, by making clay minerals available. Bentonite is a weathering product of volcanic tuffs, usually high Mg containing montmorillonites. The minerals are easily available to microorganisms and plants and especially recomended for light sandy soils in small quantities but frequently. 2. "but I'd rather use local paddock reared clay" sounds to me as you wanting to access energies or, in my interpretation, in the [clay] soils laid down learning by your environment (or is it of your environment?). I relate this to deep psychology - accessing the sub- or unconscious deep learnings and then connect this with what is happening now in an up-and-down process. Analogously, what about adding little bits of each soil layer to create an interchange of knowledge between the past and the present? Regards, Christiane [EMAIL PROTECTED]@envirolink.org on 02/04/2003 09:27:47 AM Please respond to [EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent by:[EMAIL PROTECTED] To:[EMAIL PROTECTED] cc: Subject:Re: Vitality and fertility ofsoils Steve Storch wrote > > I have to dis agree. If it is not done by the human hand where does the farm > individuality arise from. Take ten minutes, stir the water and make the > "reagent",, you owe it to yourself...sstorch > OK Steve (and any others that would like to comment) - I'll try this - a couple of questions though - 1. will this stirred water hold the energy pattern long enough to use it in a vial in the broadcaster (weeks or months) - that doesn't work with stirred preps ? Otherwise I need to make your 'stirred water 'card. 2. three of us are putting down some horns (of 500) this weekend and I'd like to include some clay, you have some different ideas on clay - any suggestions ? these are some options :: bentonite - its easy but I'd rather use local paddock reared clay :: I have a nice maroon clay from our subsoil layer - sticky and extremely dense, mostly magnesium it comes from about 6 to 18 inches deep in the profile. :: a yellowish sticky but highly dispersive, high sodium clay from our deep subsoil :: black pond muck - you talked about this stuff a while back - its a black silty clay that settles in the bottom of our farm water storage dams - powerful stuff - very nutrient rich - has some humic material included from organic wash in 3. we will be doing this in a new pit - any suggestions to pre treat the pit for a better result - I'd thought to spray it out with stirred 500 before putting the horns in ? Line the bottom with good compost maybe? What else works? Thanks for any suggestions cheers Lloyd Charles
Re: Bob Cannard & Wes Jackson Audio + RealSlideShow
[EMAIL PROTECTED]@envirolink.org on 09/03/2003 02:05:47 PM Please respond to [EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent by:[EMAIL PROTECTED] To:[EMAIL PROTECTED] cc: Subject:beautiful day Today was the ultimate beautiful day. A blue sky, a calm breeze, warm sunshine on your skin, walking through the woods and quiet pastures, your lover by your side, your dog trotting along keeping you both company, observing the first signs of Spring, buds breaking on a wild rose, un-named green leaves pushing through the damp earth, a single sycamore shining and waving its white arms around against the blue sky. stopping to observe, silent, transfixed breathing deep, soaking in the experience, the calm, peaceful presence of a beautiful day. Steve I can completely relate to this for the whole last week, except that here it is autumn, like nature recovering from the hot dry summer after the little bit of rain recently and I have no lover but three loving young dogs running and chasing each other and kangaroos (for about 100 m and then give up) full of life's exuberance and excitement. It is still dry, but on the floodplain along the Murray it is not so obvious. Lots of birds seem to enjoy the day just as much. The different colour and quality of the autumn sunlight is beautiful, expecially in the morning - a very light translucent yellow that brings out every little detail so crystal clearly. When swimmming in the river the splashing water drops are like brilliant little diamionds against the sunlight and the water flows smooth and cool along the skin. After the swim some qi-gong to capture the natural calm and happy energy. Christiane > > >
Re: Help with Our Feathered Friends
Hi, Sorry, if I repeat someone elses comment. I haven't followed the discussion on this topic closely. Has anyone mentioned flying a hawke, kite, any bird of prey type of kite? Some grape growers are doing it here in Sunraysia, Victoria, Australia, and since they are doing it for several years, I assume they are having some effect. The main problem I think are honeyeaters sucking the sweet juicy grape berries. Yesterday I saw a cultural gem that brought a real happy smile to my face. I was driving a long the road, when something bright and colourful caught the corner of my eye. At the end of each row of fruit trees, I'ld say at least ten of them, huge stuffed scarecrows were put up in the most brightly coloured clothes; all human shape except for one that depicted a dragon or dinosaur. My guess is that school kids from the local primary school (they are very active here in hands on experiences having their own vege garden, planting trees, monitoring river salinity, breeding and releasing biological control agents etc.) made them and put them up. I do not know, if they work, but they are beautiful to look at, and I am sure the kids had a ball making them. Christiane
Re: Gil FW: [globalnews] Der Spiegel: Fundamentalist Bush Regime Wants
Gil, I agree with what you said, but only partially with the last paragraph. I cannot comment on the American media, because I do not know it. I am thinking that globalnews is mostly American and there is stuff in there, we would not hear about in Australia. My main point for consideration, however, is Howard's labelling disagreeing Australians as being 'un-Australian', which has caught on and not been dismissed as a derogatory and slanderous way of belittling people and avoiding a public debate about issues. Regards, Christiane
Re: BD and steam
Hi Ross, There is another company in Australia (Adelaide) marketing a steam weeder especially for under vines called 'Vaporjet'. They also have photos of a modified version for [vegetables?] asparagus that a grower made himself. The company's name is 'travohtec', PO Box 2162, Port Adelaide Business Centre, SA 5015; ph 08-8347 7499; fax 08-8347 7599; email [EMAIL PROTECTED]; contact person: Chris Travers 0407 976 033. Christiane
for Aussies mainly? TODAY! Have your say on GE @ The Age
-- Forwarded by Christiane Jaeger/NRE on 07/02/2003
09:51 AM ---
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Subject:!!!Fwd: TODAY! Have your say on GE @ The Age
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>Date: Thu, 6 Feb 2003 12:50:55 +1100
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>Subject: TODAY! Have your say on GE @ The Age
>X-Filtered-With: Ruralnet Attachment Renamer - badlist filter
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>
> YOUR VIEWS ON GE
>
>A front page story in the Age today (SMH P3&8; Australian P4) reports on a
>letter to Nature magazine. It suggests that the genes in plants cells may
>be more mobile than earlier thought and thus more difficult to contain ...
>
>The Melbourne Age newspaper is giving readers a chance to have a say
>about GE crops today - log on and tell them your views ...
>
>http://www.theage.com.au/yoursay1/2003/02/06/index.html
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>
>
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>PLEASE NOTE: GeneEthics Network has moved. New address follows.
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>email: [EMAIL PROTECTED] (Bob Phelps)
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> The problem with the gene pool is, there is no lifeguard.
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Re: Jane 's information
Hi Martha, I would like to be on the distribution list with my private email address, which is: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Thanks, Christiane Christiane Jaeger
Re: to Jane Sherry
Well said, John. Christiane [EMAIL PROTECTED]@envirolink.org on 28/01/2003 12:32:21 PM Please respond to [EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent by:[EMAIL PROTECTED] To:[EMAIL PROTECTED] cc: Subject:Re: to Jane Sherry Everyone has a valid point, so then what? Jane's point about the woman journalist in Afghanistan is well taken, by me. No need to be divisive here. I can't believe that hitting the delete key takes "hours". If you don't like it, skip/delete it. I, for one, want the option. I'm here to learn, not argue. Just another 'lurker' John Buckley Mountains Western NC - Original Message - From: Jane Sherry To: Bdnow Sent: Monday, January 27, 2003 7:30 PM Subject: Re: to Jane Sherry Dear Happy Biodynamic specialists, I really do wish you luck in trying to promote/use/educate bd methods divorced from spirituality and the great big world out there! Frankly, I am tired of being the object of people's bull shit, anger, misplaced emotions or just frustration because I have this idea that bd is part of a larger whole. I am tired of trying to explain myself and why I feel it necessary to sometimes forward posts from GlobalNews and other sources which touch on spirituality, drought, politics and war from around the world. Here in the northern hemisphere, it is winter, and usually there is a lot of conversation on this list. I don't know what's up other than the pervasive fear and paranoia that my government so successfully is spreading around. I really felt that woman journalist's piece to be totally germaine to our conversations on bdnow, because she put a human face on people, yes PEOPLE who our government is intent on demonizing. War is complex, it is never black and white. People who are our so called enemies, are still human, with spirits, souls, families and complicated life situations. Wouldn't it be nice if the US would lift the embargo so that Iraqi children and their parents could receive much needed medicines and food, especially now that we have spent umpty years polluting their country with plutonium and god only knows what else? Perhaps that would inspire their leaders to give up their weapons. Wouldn't it be nice if the embargo against me were lifted so I didn't have to process all your ire? Believe it or not, Will and the many others who no doubt complain to Allan and me on this list, I actually choose very carefully the posts I send in to bdnow. I usually (or try to) even include the OT (off topic) in the subject header even though, in my world, these posts are NOT OFF TOPIC. If you're here to only learn bd, so be it. I'm really over this stuff. For those of you who know how to use a delete key, or have a faster connection feel free to contact me privately, and I'll send you subscription info to be on the free GlobalNews mailing list which can also be accessed on the web, if you don't want all the messages coming into your mailbox. So, stay in your special bd list, your special bd world, and keep wondering how to get those ideas out in the world. Sorry, Allan, but I do have other things going on in my life, and for now, I am over and out. Call me a lurker. Jane Sherry > From: Will Winter <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> > Reply-To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] > Date: Mon, 27 Jan 2003 18:00:34 -0600 > To: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> > Subject: to Jane Sherry > >> this stuff, which >> mostly comes by way of my ex-journalist-husband-who-reads-everything's- >> mailing list. If you can't tell, he reads really fast!!! > > IS YOUR REFERRAL SERVICE *OPTIONAL* ON THIS SITE? > HOW MUCH WOULD I HAVE TO PAY YOU TO MAKE IT STOP! > JEEZ!!! > > WGW >
Re: Looking for a new CSA name
What about something with connections, like Food Connections, because a CSA is about connecting or re-connecting the consumer with the people and places where the food comes from and vice versa connecting the farmer with the consumers in his local community. Christiane
Re: FW: [globalnews] The Ecologist "For Richer Read Poorer" Great shortread!!
Not long ago my local newspaper reported on a survey by the Australian Bureau of Statistics. They found that a higher percentage of people in the medium to high income brackets than of people in the low income said that they could not afford to buy everything they wanted! The financially poorer people interviewed seemed to be more contend to live within their means. I wonder how many of the low income people had a comparably low income, because they choose not to work more hours or a higher paid and more stressful job, because they are not so materially minded, but have other values that are more important to them. Christiane
Re: Root storage
I have not done it myself, but here is what the literature says (2 bd books and internet; I am not citing, because they are in German, without meaning to imply that there is nothing in English on the subject) Washtubs sunk into the soil and covered with straw or leaves in the basement as described by Gil outside in mild areas, where frost is not too bad, on top of the field covered with film and straw outside in mounds: dig 20-25 cm trench, cover bottom with film or tight wire netting, heap root vegetables up top 1 m high (cabbages canplaced just tightly next to each other, i.e. not heaped up, upside down root stalk sticking up in the air), cover with a 10-20 cm thick layer of soil, on top of that 30 cm layer of straw and another 15 cm layer of soil. Christiane
apology Lloyd not Charles
Sorry, Lloyd, to address you by your last name. Didn't mean to, got mixed up. Regards, Christiane
Re: lurking...security
Charles wrote: "The only people who would be affected are the busybody cruisers that are there either by accident or to cause mischief." How do you stop pepole who want to cause mischief from obtaining a password? What will be the criteria for being eligible for obtaining the password? Christiane
Re: LURKING was Re: Personal Security / Insecurity
Seems to me that the issue could only be resolved by a vote and I do not know how that could be implemented. I think that the preference for either protecting the archives or leaving them in the public domain comes down to one's personal value system. There are many idealists among bd-people, for whom the awareness of the wider social implications of following a bd-worldview and its political aspects and potential consequences in terms of political change is as natural as the practical art and craft of growing bio-dynamically. And these idealistically minded people value abstract notions of freedom of speech and standing up for one's beliefs very highly; it is part of their self-esteem to give that value priority. Other bd-minded people are more interested in the arts and crafts of bio-dynamics, and while they also value the abstract idealistic aspects, they don't give them as high a priority in the value system. The stance we take, what is important to us has a lot to do with our personalities. There is no right or wrong. Because of our different ways of thinking we contribute differently and that's good. So, I think, to repeat, because we are so different and this is a fundamental attitude/value issue, it can only be solved by a democratic vote for yes or no to protect the archives. I agree with the reasoning of the idealistic camp for lots of reasons, most of them have been already put forward. I understand also the concerns that lead to the desire to protect the archives and agree with some of them.Whatever the arguments, however, in the end it comes down for me to a value judgment of what is most important to me. And that is: don't conform and be silenced out of fear of being labeled as a certain person or for losing my job. I have contributed very, very little to the list, because I am still learning. So, far I have said nothing in regards to any political issues, although I appreciate them a lot. The reason for this that I am conscious as a newcomer and learner about not to usurp a bd subject list for political issues. But I am happy to write comments on these matters in the future, when they arise, if it is acceptable to this list, to support the politically minded people, because I am profoundly unhappy with the current social and political systems and I think that the philosophies behind organic and bd agriculture are a fantastic guide for changing the world to a more humane system or way of being, if you like. Christiane
Re: nettles soil conditions
Hi, Thanks for all this interesting information. It's been many years that I spoke with my relation, and thinking about it I am remembering that he also said that the nettles grew on the bad parts of teh poperty and when the soil was in balance the nettles tended to disappear. They would not have had sheep and sheep manure, but only used cattle manure on theitr farm. Christiane
Re: source of nettle seeds
I am interested to know how well the seeded nettles grow. a bd grower in Germany told me that he tried to grow nettles from seed for nettle tea production and increase the a amount of nettles available for his own use. He tried several times, but failed, while in some areas of his property they grew very well. He said to me that he believed, nettles grow best naturally and are very difficult to produce 'artificially'. Christiane
urgent: compost tea on vines, AUS
Hi, We are formulating a preliminary research proposal to Grape and Wine Research & Development Council (GWRDC) for looking at standardisation and efficacy of compost tea for disease control with commmercially available compost and grower made compost. I had feedback from organic vege growers that they are interested in that sort of research. but since GWRDC funds grape research only I need feedback from grape growers. By spreading the project over several industries (grape and vege) because of some shared components it wouild reduce industry cost and increase the chance to get the proposal acccepted. Anyone out there in Australia growing grapes who would like to see us doing research on compost tea? Christiane
Re: "struggling with my old solo diaphragm"
perhaps the diaphragm has a crack in it? needs only to be tiny and the air will leak out and the pump not work. Christiane [EMAIL PROTECTED] on 01/08/2002 19:41:41 Please respond to [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] cc:(bcc: Christiane Jaeger/NRE) Subject: "struggling with my old solo diaphragm" I recently purchased a new 4-gal SOLO diaphragm sprayer. It worked great for the first hour or so and I was very glad that I purchased it. Now it's got this weird thing going on. You pump it a few times and it feels 'pumped' but will not spray. I guess this means that the outlet is clogged. It's a nice, clean, pump that's had nothing that wouldn't pass through panty hose mesh poured into it. What a hassle to think of completely disassembling it to find that blockage. Or is it not a blockage and just a quirk? Yesterday I picked up a new 3-gal Shindaiwa backpack sprayer. What a dream it appears to be!! -Allan
Re: Steiner Books Free Forum
May I correct some of the very liberal translations? " Die Liebe und ihre Bedeutung in der Welt = Love and its meaning in the world. ( Morale Anthroposophique = Moral Antroposopy ); Aren't morality and love quite different things? Vom Bild und Sinn Todes; About image and meaning of death. Die Physiognomie Des Todes; The physiognomy of death. Die Lebendige Wechselwirkung zwischen Lebenden und Toten; The living [dynamic?] reciprocity between the living and the dead. Inneres Wesen des Menshen und Leben Zwischen Tod und Neuer Geburt" Inner being [essence?] of human beings and living between death and new birth [rebirth?]. Regards, Christiane [EMAIL PROTECTED] on 15/07/2002 17:57:13 Please respond to [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] cc:(bcc: Christiane Jaeger/NRE) Subject: Steiner Books Free Forum Today I got lucky and found at my local used book store six (6!!!) books of Steiner. I'm really excited to read them. They are French translations of German publications. I know this might sounds strange but Steiner happens to be very well published in French. ... ?! I'm very excited to learn more about Anthroposophy and would like to share ideas with anyone who has to contribute to some of the topics in anyone of the books mentioned below. Some kind of free forum or discussion group DG) (n.b. ... the translation from French to English is of my own... I'm not certain of the official titles...?: - " Die Liebe und ihre Bedeutung in der Welt ( Morale Anthroposophique = Moral Antroposopy ) ; - " Blut ist ein ganz besonderer Saft ( Le sang est un suc tout particulier = Blood is a very particular sugar. ) - " Wie erlangt man Erkenntnisse der hoheren Welten " ( Comment Aquerir Des Connaissances sur les Mondes Superieurs = How to aquire the knowlede of the superieur worlds.) - " Vom Bild und Sinn Todes; Die Physiognomie Des Todes; Die Lebendige Wecheselwirkung zwischen Lebenden und Toten; Inneres Wesen Des Menshen und Leben Zwischen Tod und Neuer Gerburt" (Le Sens de la mort: physionomie de la mort; echange entre les vivants et les morts; experience d'au dela du seuil = Understanding Death: physionomy of death; exchanges between the dead and the living; experiences from beyond here) - " Die Philosophie des Thomas von Aquino ( La philosophie de Thomas D'aquin = The philosophy of Thomas (? D'aquin?). All right now. I'm off reading!!! Robin Today I got lucky and found at my local used book store six (6!!!) books of Steiner. I'm really excited to read them. They are French translations of German publications. I know this might sounds strange but Steiner happens to be very well published in French. ... ?! I'm very excited to learn more about Anthroposophy and would like to share ideas with anyone who has to contribute to some of the topics in anyone of the books mentioned below. Some kind of free forum or discussion group DG) (n.b. ... the translation from French to English is of my own... I'm not certain of the official titles...?: - " Die Liebe und ihre Bedeutung in der Welt ( Morale Anthroposophique = Moral Antroposopy ) ; - " Blut ist ein ganz besonderer Saft ( Le sang est un suc tout particulier = Blood is a very particular sugar. ) - " Wie erlangt man Erkenntnisse der hoheren Welten " ( Comment Aquerir Des Connaissances sur les Mondes Superieurs = How to aquire the knowlede of the superieur worlds.) - " Vom Bild und Sinn Todes; Die Physiognomie Des Todes; Die Lebendige Wecheselwirkung zwischen Lebenden und Toten; Inneres Wesen Des Menshen und Leben Zwischen Tod und Neuer Gerburt" (Le Sens de la mort: physionomie de la mort; echange entre les vivants et les morts; experience d'au dela du seuil = Understanding Death: physionomy of death; exchanges between the dead and the living; experiences from beyond here) - " Die Philosophie des Thomas von Aquino ( La philosophie de Thomas D'aquin = The philosophy of Thomas (? D'aquin?). All right now. I'm off reading!!! Robin
for Aussies only
Hi, A visiting scientist, Margaret (Meg) Tuttle McGrath from the Department of Plant Pathology Cornell University, Long Island Horticultural Research & Extension Center is in Australia on sabbatical leave working currently with DPI in Gatton and Indooroopilly. One of her main interests is learning about organic and bd production of vegetable crops here. She just expressed in interest in compost trea brewing and application for disease control. Between July 15th and July 25th she'll be travelling from Sydney via Yanco, Mildura, Swan Hill, Rutherglen to Melbourne hoping to talk with as many growers as possible. Is there anyone somewhere roughly on that route who would like to invite her on his/her property and have a chat? You do all these fascinating things with radionics, compost teas, preps etc, that we unknowledgable researchers can't discuss with her. I am learning, but still have too much catcvhing up to do to venture into the topics. If anyone is interested, I could put you into direct email contact with her. Sorry, it is a bit short notice. Regards, Christiane
Re: Certification
Hi Allan, Sounds great! One more point, you are pobably aware of as well. Just want to make sure. Contamination. You need your own boomspray for vegies and tree sprayer for citrus (for putting out kelp, compost teas, milk products, whatever). I look into the rock dust issue some time next week. I want to know myself. Best wishes, Christiane
Re: Certification
Hi Allan, Not to put you off, but I think that 10 acres is too small for citrus plus vegetable growing. In reality 10 acres is small for any type of crop nowadays, unless you are very intensive, i.e. herbs or intensive vegetables, or value add or sell direct to consumers or have a second income. It will hardly leave you land to take out of cash crop production, i.e. growing a green manure crop which is really an essential part of organics/bd. Another point, and I rather paint things black to make sure you look into things very carefully, is that for decent weeding implements for your vegetable growing you could easily spend another $20,000-$30,000. I am thinking of a flame- or steam weeder and a brush- or rotary type weeder for your mechanical weed control. You might get out of it, if you raise your own seedlings and plant them in a cover crop. If you plant into a clean bed you can probably get away with a simpler and cheaper tine weeding implement. But a seedling transplanter is advisable in that case to make sure you plant straight. Most vegetables are grown in raised seedbeds. It's good to have a bedformer for that. etc., etc. Of course, if your neighbours are successful vegetable growers they'ld have all the equipment you need. Another thought: did you think of a washer for your packing shed? Most vegetables are washed before packing. Is your soil alkaline or acidic or neutral? In the back of my head is the notion that mineral rockdust is not very effective in alkaline conditions. I would verify that, if I knew that you have alkaline soil. Regards, Christiane [EMAIL PROTECTED] on 03/07/2002 15:44:59 Please respond to [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] cc: [EMAIL PROTECTED] (bcc: Christiane Jaeger/NRE) Subject: Re: Certification Gil:thanks for the feedback. In answer to your considerations have done most of them myself.I managed to get two years of study under my belt at UWSH,in Hort/Sci before economic pressure forced me to go back to the work force. I am very sure that the land is suitable and in addition I have two conventional farmers who are willing to lend a hand,ie their tractor and implements and their local knowledge in exchange for my experience.(I helped one farmer establish 4aces of garlic in Feb). As far as plant and equipment is concerned $20,000 Aud will see me with a packing/equipment shed and cool room.I have all the irrigation for 10 acres and only need a pump house. I would like to add that the conventional farmers took to the BD way of thinking(some of it.I haven't told them of the esoteric side to it yet),with real enthusiasm I feel there is a real opportunity here to improve the village community and the sustainability of other farms in the area. Your mention of Mineral rock dusts,I would be very interrested in your contacts. Allan Emerton Gil:thanks for the feedback. In answer to your considerations have done most of them myself.I managed to get two years of study under my belt at UWSH,in Hort/Sci before economic pressure forced me to go back to the work force. I am very sure that the land is suitable and in addition I have two conventional farmers who are willing to lend a hand,ie their tractor and implements and their local knowledge in exchange for my experience.(I helped one farmer establish 4aces of garlic in Feb). As far as plant and equipment is concerned $20,000 Aud will see me with a packing/equipment shed and cool room.I have all the irrigation for 10 acres and only need a pump house. I would like to add that the conventional farmers took to the BD way of thinking(some of it.I haven't told them of the esoteric side to it yet),with real enthusiasm I feel there is a real opportunity here to improve the village community and the sustainability of other farms in the area. Your mention of Mineral rock dusts,I would be very interrested in your contacts. Allan Emerton
Re: Certification
Hi Allan, If you want to be organic I suggest either NASAA or BFA. Growers have told me that BFA is less strict than NASAA. NASAA is accredited with IFOAM; so, if you plan to export you might ( I am not sure if actually) better off to certify with NASAA. If you want to be bio-dynamic you have the choice between BFA or the BDRI. I attach a list with contact names and addresses. Re contacting potential buyers of your produce the answer is a definite 'yes'! There is seasonal oversupply of organic/bd produce. I know citrus growers who had to sell their produce on the conventional market. The same applies to vegetables. Wholesalers need quality and consistency of supply of the right varieties and to contact them before you plant will probably be regarded as an impressive goodwill professional approach. You need to know what (type plus variety), when and how much per week of supply. Also, don't forget to try local consumers. How close are you to a wholesale market? Are you aware of how capital intensive vegetable production is, unless you grow pumpkins? I hope I don't sound too pushy and like a know-all. I work for NRE and talk to a range of growers and get all kinds of feedback. In the end itseems to come down a lot to an individual's situation, location and skills. It's my job to answer questions. So, please, ask, if my replies give you stimulating ideas. Regards and best wishes, Christiane (See attached file: Organic Certification Bodies Contact List.doc) [EMAIL PROTECTED] on 03/07/2002 09:13:11 Please respond to [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] cc: [EMAIL PROTECTED] (bcc: Christiane Jaeger/NRE) Subject: Re: Certification David:Thanks for the advice.Yes I will be contacting a certifying body however which one?.Are they all much of a muchness?. I have spoken to the neighbours and they have said the place has had only horses and cattle on it for the last 7 odd yrs.Before that there was a small dairy. I intend to grow a range of vegetables and citrus which leads me to another question.Should I start contacting agents / merchants for the produce?. Allan Emerton David:Thanks for the advice.Yes I will be contacting a certifying body however which one?.Are they all much of a muchness?. I have spoken to the neighbours and they have said the place has had only horses and cattle on it for the last 7 odd yrs.Before that there was a small dairy. I intend to grow a range of vegetables and citrus which leads me to another question.Should I start contacting agents / merchants for the produce?. Allan Emerton Organic Certification Bodies Contact List.doc Description: Mac Word 3.0
Re: Fwd: Re: Root Aphids
Mycorrhizae are not honeydew. Mycorrhizae are fungi that grow in the rhizosphere and form a symbiotic relationship with plants. Honeydew is a sugar excretion by aphids that serves as a food source to ants (and also atttracts lacewings and ladybirds who are predators of aphids). That's why ants are known to look after aphids. Regards, Christiane [EMAIL PROTECTED] on 27/06/2002 00:33:56 Please respond to [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] cc:(bcc: Christiane Jaeger/NRE) Subject: Fwd: Re: Root Aphids >Date: Wed, 26 Jun 2002 05:32:35 -0700 (PDT) >From: Michael Smith <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> >Subject: Re: Root Aphids >To: Allan <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> > >Allan, > >Please Fwd: > >I remember reading an article years ago, which I >followed up with naked-eye observations in the field. >The article stated that aphids were feeding on >something called "honey dew"; a black sweet dew that >forms on plants. This is easily observable developing >on field peas during humid periods; a good reason to >use 508 on the plants. > >Anyway, if mycorrhyzae is the technical term for honey >dew, I would say Hugh is right on the money. What I >would watch out for is its' appearance above the soil >line; it limits the health of the plant. > >Michael >>Ant and aphids on roots is just about always a good >>sign. Ants cultivate the mycorrhyzae so there is a >>surplus for the aphids. >> >>Best, >>Hugh > >things, indicated poor soil structure. It seems so >degenerate, aphids on the roots (I don't recall seeing >ants, myself). > >(Moving right along) Are you saying that the aphids >are only feeding on exudates and not on the plant >itself? > >-Allan> > > > >__ >Do You Yahoo!? >Yahoo! - Official partner of 2002 FIFA World Cup >http://fifaworldcup.yahoo.com
re root aphids
Phylloxera is a root aphid that can kill grapevines. There are other root feeding aphids on herbaceous plants that are harmful to the plant, because they suck the sap out of the roots. There are a few websites on aphids; here are two examples. http://ctr.uvm.edu/ctr/el/el60.htm; http://entowww.tamu.edu/extension/bulletins/uc/uc-031.html Regards, Christiane
RE: clay soil
Very good point. I totally agree Cheers, Christiane [EMAIL PROTECTED] on 07/06/2002 13:58:15 Please respond to [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] cc:(bcc: Christiane Jaeger/NRE) Subject: RE: clay soil Cordelia, Good luck with your clay soil! Regarding the peat, one thing that a lot of people are not aware of is that the peat industry is causing huge destruction to bogs all over the world, bogs which took millennia to form. Peat is great gardening stuff, organic & useful, but it is part of a very complex, rare, and fragile ecosystem which is being rapidly lost. There was a great article about this in the last Oregon Tilth paper; I encourage everyone to explore more renewable substitutes, like coconut fiber or other ag processing by-products, depending on your needs. Just my thoughts on this! Micah Al-Qemi- Alchemical & Spagyric products for healing body, spirit & soul. Visit us on the web at: www.al-qemi.com Cordelia, Good luck with your clay soil! Regarding the peat, one thing that a lot of people are not aware of is that the peat industry is causing huge destruction to bogs all over the world, bogs which took millennia to form. Peat is great gardening stuff, organic & useful, but it is part of a very complex, rare, and fragile ecosystem which is being rapidly lost. There was a great article about this in the last Oregon Tilth paper; I encourage everyone to explore more renewable substitutes, like coconut fiber or other ag processing by-products, depending on your needs. Just my thoughts on this! Micah Al-Qemi- Alchemical & Spagyric products for healing body, spirit & soul. Visit us on the web at: www.al-qemi.com
Re: clay soil
Hi Cordelia, I'ld like to add my two bobs worth, as well. I agree with Lloyd. In addition I would start with a soil test. Get soil pits dug in a 75m x 75m or 100mx100m or wider spacings depending on what type of production you want to have: broad acre, orchard, vegetables? The vertical walls of the pit give you a good look at the soil profile, depth and type of horizons, maybe impermeable layers,soil structure, texture. Here in Sunraysia, Australia, 75x75m is recommended for horticulture (grapes and citrus), because the soils vary so much, albeit they look uniform on the top. But underneath we get often carbonate layers that roots won't penetrate. That is most likely not your problem, but there might be others. Perhaps the ag department or someone has done soil studies in your area and can give you an overview of soil types, what type of clay you've got (different clay minerals have different cation exchange capacities and nutrients) and any general characteristics of your soil. Any operation that causes compaction will put your soil back, because the microorganisms live in the pores of the soil aggregates. Ideally, I guess, though it might not be practical, you put in permanent pasture (grass legume mix) for at least a year. Even grazing can cause compaction if the soil is wet after rain. Regards, Christiane
Re: vegetable seed treatment
Hi Allan and erveryone, I have been thinking that it would be similar to treating legume seeds with rhizobium inoculant. I have to use very little water and let the seeds dry up again enough to roll through the seeder. The thought is, that they will absorb some moisture and kelp substances and therefore germinate quicker and generally have a head start. Having carrots germinate quicker will reduce water use and run-off (the frequent watering of bare soil to keep the topsoil and seeds moist until germination really concerns me.) Also, maybe I don't have to use a flame weeder preemergence (becausae I don;t have one at the moment), because the carrots wil;l come up at the same time as the weeds or even earlier. I think that some kind of sticker is used in rhizobium inoculant. Is that correct. Any suggestions? Do I need it? A while ago someone told me that he was doing it with wheat. But I don't know how. He used an Aloe Vera product, he said wasn't sold anymore. I also noticed that the inoculated legumes (cowpeas) that I sowed together with millet last year started to come up 2-3 days after sowing while it took a week for the millet. Regards, Christiane [EMAIL PROTECTED] on 04/06/2002 09:40:00 Please respond to [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] cc:(bcc: Christiane Jaeger/NRE) Subject: Re: vegetable seed treatment > > >Hi, > >Does anyone know anything about presowing treatment of [vegetable] seeds with >kelp products or anything like that? >I'ld like to try it on carrots and spinach. Has it already been done? > >Regards, >Christiane Jaeger Christiane - How will you sow these seeds after they've been treated? -Allan
vegetable seed treatment
Hi, Does anyone know anything about presowing treatment of [vegetable] seeds with kelp products or anything like that? I'ld like to try it on carrots and spinach. Has it already been done? Regards, Christiane Jaeger
Re: Cows
It is a very common practice add a second calf to increase productivity when enough feed for the cow is available. Christiane [EMAIL PROTECTED] on 31/05/2002 15:00:19 Please respond to [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] cc:(bcc: Christiane Jaeger/NRE) Subject: Re: Cows >I've often been impressed with the reverence I've heard expressed on >this list for the cow and the spiritual qualities cows bring to the >farm. So I just have to ask a question that puzzles me--is taking 3 day >old calves away from their mothers the norm even among BD farmers? To >someone unfamilial with cow management, it sounds way to early to be >good for either mother or calf. > >Warm regards, >Deborah Deborah, I guess I'm just the opposite. I don't take them away for abaout three months or more. Instead when I can I'll add another on purchased from a dairy on to the cow. Best, Hugh Visit our website at: www.unionag.org
Re: Fwd: TO the Ends Of The Earth - Final installment
Hi, Is it possible to be emailed The first few (don't know how many) instalmetns?! I have only the last two, because I fdeleted teh first ones unfortunately. Thanks! Regards, Christiane
Re: subscribe
Hi, How am I to do this? Christiane [EMAIL PROTECTED] on 27/05/2002 14:31:56 Please respond to [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] cc: [EMAIL PROTECTED] (bcc: Christiane Jaeger/NRE) Subject: subscribe Subscribe BDNow Subscribe BDNow
re: need help
Wayne, Where is your property? If it is in Australia it would be a great shame, if economics would force you to have the pasture, if it is a native one, cultivated for cropping. For here in Australia, native grassland is the most threatened native vegetation habitat and with it its native specialised fauna, such as the Plain's Wanderer. Once, dug in, you'll never get it back and the animals are driven a bit closer to extinction. There are post-emergence tillage equipmetns, such as a "Striegel' that take pretty good care of emerging weeds without damaging the crop too much, if it is sown at a slightly higher rate. Regards, Christiane Jaeger
re CEC
Jose, and other contributors to the CEC debate Jose, Mr Goldstein and many other authors, scientists are not saying that Albrecht was wrong. They are saying that 'soils ain't soils', meaning the correct formula for the interaction of climate-soil-plant at one locality of the globe might not be the ideal formula at another locality. Perhaps Albrecht never claimed that his formula is ideal for every spot on the earth? And it is only the marketing of the few private laboratories who use his formula for fertiliser recommendation who do that? I posed the original question and I got lots of answers. Thanks to everyone who contributed! I conclude that Albrecht's concept of looking at soil management and fertilisation ought not to be discarded, but balanced with local and crop conditions and the other concept of supplying the crops needs with fertiliser. In practice it means for me that, when a soil laboratory tests my soil and comes up with fertiliser recommendations, I want to know which concept they used so that I can put their recomendation into the context of my management strategy Christiane
re sustainable label
Re Kellogs and 6-hats comments: There is a glaring omission of attempting to establish science based sustainablility indicators. To Within eighteen months, this group proposes to lay the groundwork for statewide sustainable labeling. To this end, they will invite partners from across the state to: 1) establish criteria for sustainable food labels 2) create a process to authorize labeling 3) initiate a program to educate the public about the labels 4) identify an organization to administer the labeling program once the grant period has been completed sounds a bit rushed to me. It is a worry. The emphasis is on getting the label out for marketing purposes, not to get it right. Here is the reference of a reccent article about "some prelimiary work to construct an indicator of farm level sustainability": Rigby, Dan et al., Constructing a farm level indicator of sustainable agricultural practices in: Ecological Economics 39(2001) pp 463-478. Kellog's is secondary industry. A product label re sustainability ought to also cover sustainable secondary industry indicators, incl. social accountability etc. Christiane
sustainable label
I wouldn't be surprised, if people from the GMO lobby would try to get their stuff accepted under the sustainable label. (The 'earthmark scheme definitely did not include them.) That there are fears and rumours about them, only makes it all the more imperative that the organic and bio-dymanic movements take part in the discussions. Other wise they''ll be rolled over. As far as I understand it, there are two powerful arguments behind the sustainable label (an unfortunate, misleading label in my opinion, because whatever we do, is not sustainable, only more sustainable (buying us time than the most commonly used practices): 1. encouragement and recoginition of more environmentally and socially benign practices by conventional growers 2. enabling consumers to make a better decision in what they are buying in relation to environmental, social justice and health issues. Christiane
Re: Resend: Advertisements for BD Now!
Sorry, Allan, I don't know. I don't even know "Biodynamic Perspectives". I live near Mildura, northwest corner of Victoria in Australia. Being a German migrant ( now Australian citizen) I have rather more connections to Germany than the closer NZ. Christiane [EMAIL PROTECTED] on 11/01/2002 09:19:59 Please respond to [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] cc: (bcc: Christiane Jaeger/NRE) Subject: Re: Resend: Advertisements for BD Now! Thanks for the attaboy, Christiane! Now, is there any chance that you know anyone in NZ who can comment on the authors in Biodynamic Perspectives? thanks -Allan >Hi Allan, > >Your own words in your email are fantastic. There is nothing to add. Just >rehash them a bit. Here is a start: > >Bio-dynamics Now! provides an easy opportunity for people all >around the Earth to work together. >On the BD-Now! discussion list bio-dynamic farmers and those interested in >bio-dynamics share their ideas and experiences, are stimulated, >learn lots and >participate in a dream of a better world, where man is not apart. >We value your inputs. Join our virtual caring global community of >Bio-dynamics >Now! by sending an email to .. > >I hope that's of some help. >I really do appreciate the work you put into this list by acting as moderator >etc. > >Regards, >Christiane Jaeger
Re: Resend: Advertisements for BD Now!
Hi Allan, Your own words in your email are fantastic. There is nothing to add. Just rehash them a bit. Here is a start: Bio-dynamics Now! provides an easy opportunity for people all around the Earth to work together. On the BD-Now! discussion list bio-dynamic farmers and those interested in bio-dynamics share their ideas and experiences, are stimulated, learn lots and participate in a dream of a better world, where man is not apart. We value your inputs. Join our virtual caring global community of Bio-dynamics Now! by sending an email to .. I hope that's of some help. I really do appreciate the work you put into this list by acting as moderator etc. Regards, Christiane Jaeger
[no subject]
Boron deficiency results in 'hollow heart' in many crops, a state occurring more and more often in organic produce in NZ. Glen That's interesting. I wonder why? According to my book on plant nutrition B deficiency can occur: on very light soils water logged soils high pH soils, after liming in form of B-Ca-Al silicate precipitation drought Might any one of these reasons apply? If the soils are actually deficient, what would be the solution? Add boron rich rock dust (mica rich rock dust) and then grow green manures that are deep rooted and use a lot (brassicas, rye corn, alfalfa) to keep th B in the top soil, add dandelion to the compost? Christiane
refractometer
Hi Brix meter Expereinced, What type of refractometer do you use? Here at the SHC we have a digital stationary one in the lab, where the sap goes into a 5mm diameter dish with the reading bulb(?) underneath. I don't get enough sap out of my plants to get a reading. Would I need much less sap for a handheld refractometer? I thought I ask, before I buy one. Many thanks for advising me. Christiane Jaeger
Re: NPR: Organic Movement vs Organic Industry
Allan wrote: As heard on morning edition this a.m. (worth a listen!) -Allan http://search.npr.org/cf/cmn/cmnpd01fm.cfm?PrgDate=01/03/2002&PrgID=3 I am not able to listen to the item, but going by John Ikerd spelt out the dilemma very clearly at the National Organics Conference in Sydney. I am seriously worried that without government intervention that makes the food prices of conventional farms reflect the environmental and diminishing spiritual quality of costs the organic movement won't be able to withstand the pull towards becoming an organic 'industry', industry understood in its original manufacturing sense. I hear the arguments in the department that it is better for the environment to make conventional growers using more organic methods than helping committed existing organic and bd growers, i.e. those growers who are mostly part of the organic movement. Because of our education having been focused on the intellect, the people arguing the above are unable to perceive, let alone understand, that thespiritual dimension of the organic movement will be lacking in an organic industry and that an organic industry instead of conventional industry might buy us environmentally more time, but in the long run won't make a difference, because people's attitudes/world views haven't changed. I think, I have met organic growers who are convinced and committed 'movement' growers, growers who are confused about which way to go, because of the financial pressures, and organic growers who have become 'industrialised'. Perhaps it is a refelction of our psychological and consciousness differences. ... I stop here. Christiane Jaeger
Albrecht System continued
Hi All, Thank you all for so many comments to my query about the Albrecht System! I will follow up the contacts in the new year. So, maybe I am writing a bit prematurely, but to continue the discussion I thought I might describe my question in more detail: Accuracy of soil analysis is greatly dependent on soil type. There are different elemental extraction methodologies for the same elements with differing results because a) the methods differ, b) soil conditions are different. Methodologies are soil specific. Therefore whatever lab one uses it seems to me advisable: 1. to tell the lab exactly what types of soil and climate one has and 2. to stick with one lab and learn from the changes in soil analyses over the years. The Perry laboratory in Adelaide uses for most or all elements commonly used methodologies, some of which are not the best ones for the calcareous, high pH soils around Mildura, where I live. (Peverill, K.I et al. eds, 1999, Soil Analysis An Interpretation Manaual, CSIRO, Collingwood, Australia). CEC determination is given also by conventional laboratories. The only difference so far I have been able to ascertain is that: 1. It has been claimed that only Perry laboratory CEC methodology results in figures that lead to the best interpretation, without having yet been able to find out what exactly that methodology is. 2. From one paper (C. Owen Plank, http://oit.caes.uga.edu/css/turf/) that mentions Sufficiency Level of Available Nutrient Concept versus Maintenance Level Concept, I understand, that the Albrecht System would fall under the second category. An ideal cation saturation percentage is being sought to attain and retain in the soil, i.e. the soil is being fertilised and not the plant. Researchers other than William Albrecht are mentioned. The ideal CEC percentages and ratios are very similar to Albrecht 's, with slight variations for different types of soils. However, some scientists have questioned the scientific and economic validity of basing fertiliser recommendations solely on the Maintenance Level Concept. I haven't been able to get hold of those papers as yet, as our librarian is on leave; but this critique seems understandable to me, when I think of my situation, where we alter the soil chemistry by irrigation and force 'unnatural' agricultural temperate climate commercial crops onto soils that normally grow semi-arid plants. Question: Should we try to change the exchangeable cation percentages and ratios in the soil to fit what has proven to be correct for these plants in other parts of the world? Or can we allow ourselves to see, if they grow okay also under the natural balanced soil in our parts of the world or not grow these crops at all, but only those crops that don't mind semi-arid calcareous and low organic matter soils? Would it be possible to combine the philosophy behind the Albrecht System's soil test interpretation with some newer analysis methodologies, e.g. Mehlich-3 or ammonium bicarbonate ?DTPA, to get the most useful results for nudging the complex soil-plant system towards growing commercially viable crops within the organic energy individuality of each farm and farmer? I am beginning to think more clearly that a soil test is always only a snap shot and the crux lies in the interpretation of that snapshot and the snapshots over time. Perhaps in a BD or organic system, where the emphasis is on working with ecological and cosmic systems, instead of force feeding with massive amounts of fertiliser, the soil nutrient analysis is less important than a soil biological test and does not need to be rated as highly as in a conventional system for the success of the farming operation? Please, don't get me wrong by querying. I believe that organic farming is benign conventional farming and I am philosophically and ideally inclined towards BD, the holistic cosmic worldview and nudging within it. But I am not yet convinced that the Albrecht System promotion in Australia is done for the System's objective merits and not largely because of very good marketing. Cheers and apologies, if this is too long Christiane Jaeger
Re: deer problem
In Australia a company sells 'Roo-shoo'. It is a battery powered think that makes a high pitched noise that kangaroos don't like and humans hardly hear. It works - I tried it. Perhaps there is something for deer?! In Germany people can put something on the front or side of their car to stop deer crossing the road in front of them. I think, they are only reflector type gadgets, but I am not sure. I can find out from my sister. Cheers, Christiane Jaeger [EMAIL PROTECTED] on 28/12/2001 08:46:09 Please respond to [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] cc:(bcc: Christiane Jaeger/NRE) Subject: Re: deer problem This is going to sound a little strange and I have to admit I haven't tried it but...I've heard a story that placing a few of those sound activated toys around the perimeter of a garden will scare deer away successfully. I believe the guy making this report said he used plastic (and therefore waterproof) fish. Oh well, good for a laugh anyway. Deborah
Albrecht System for soil testing and fertilisation
Hi all, May I ask, if anyone has any experience or knowledge of the Albrecht System for soil analysis and fertiliser recommendations versus the 'conventional' laboratory approach? In the organic circles in Australia the Albrecht system is being hailed as the best one to use. Except for anecdotal evidence that some growers say that it works for them, I have not seen any other literature about it, especially in regards to its adaptation to Australian soils. I am writing as research officer for organic vegetables with the Department of Natural Resources & Environment - Agriculture Victoria, and am thinking of writing an Agnote on soil testing. Many thanks for your time and any information you may have to offer. PS: I also have a small patch to grow organic vegies on and some data would help me to decide, if I should use the Albrecht System. Regards, Christiane Jaeger
