Re: Chromas and humus Was Electronic homeopathy for plants.
Hugh I have not suggested my preps are better. I said they were different in my experience. Much more research into comparability is needed before such a statement could be made. cheers GA - Original Message - From: Hugh Lovel [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Friday, March 14, 2003 6:29 PM Subject: Re: Chromas and humus Was Electronic homeopathy for plants. James Hedley writes: Dear Glen, What was the qualitative difference between the radionically potentised preparations and the hand succussing? It would be hard to put it up as a valid test if both doses were not derived from the same substance. One batch of preps could vary very markedly from those prepared at a different time. Were the symptom pictures the same at both times? You may be right that your manually potentised preps are better than radionically prepared preps, but somehow it is important to compare apples with apples and that it is the same parameters that are being tested. An agronomist friend of mine claims that before you can visually see a difference in a pasture there would have to be at least 25% difference to be able to see it.. . . . Kind regards James Dear Glen, James, et. al., I think it was generous of James to say that Glen may be right that his manually potentized preps are better then radionically prepared preps. Which is not to suggest that James's radionically potentized preps are better either. But I might remind both that in Steiner's agriculture course he remarks how the enthusiasm of the practitioner for his method enters into his remedies, and it counts for a lot. So it seems to me that both Glen and James might make remedies with great enthusiasm. A couple years ago James' story about the Portugese milipedes in Gulgong and how he got rid of them with his radionic instrument and spraying was a great example of enthusiasm and its effectiveness. Personally I once shared Glen's view that manually potentized preps simply had to be better. But I found myself having to be very fussy about measurments and once in a while I caught myself making mistakes in one fashion or another. My enthusiasm suffered, and I tried a few radionic potentizations of water. My results were good, so my enthusiasm for making radionic potencies grew a bit. Harvey Lisle criticized and could generally tell by dowsing which were radionic and which were manually diluted and succussed. After all, that information is there in the ethers. But instead of considering the results he simply dismissed the radionic potencies as dead. This was an opinion he and I had shared to a few years earlier at a radionic conference when we had first seen radionic BD preps made with a hieronymus instrument and a double dial rate setting. I felt the enthusiasm that went into my radionic preps (which were prepared by Lorraine Cahill with her Malcolm Rae instrument) was definitely not dead and that he was mixing dowsing with prejudice--always a bad combination. I must admit to a contrary streak and this had the effect of hardening my resolve to investigate radionic potencies, and I'm not at all sorry I have. In the process I've found that radionics is quick, clean, precise and sure. All of these add fire to my enthusiasm for radionics. I don't think radionics is any end all or be all. I think we each potentially have the power to make potencies without any equipment--just our own bodies and spirits, our minds, hearts and wills. I think that way will grow in peoples' enthusiasms and will become the method of preference for the folks of tomorrow, as it was for that guy back a couple thousand years ago in Palestine. Right now people are crawling, or they are walking on crutches. That's okay. It just isn't the wave of the future is all. Best, Hugh Lovel Visit our website at: www.unionag.org
Re: Chromas and humus Was Electronic homeopathy for plants.
I might have a couple of good pictures soon that would help with this, can I email them to you. (thats if i can get them scanned in properly) Lloyd - If you don't mind, let's get these posted to the web. I'm happy to publish them for you, if you don't have your own means. If you need to have them scanned, you can mail them to me also to do that. (For heaven's sake, though, send me copies you don't need returned!) This is the sort of thing that we need to get 'up and out there.' I'm also looking for chromas and what not of radionically managed food crops thanks, Allan
Re: Chromas and humus Was Electronic homeopathy for plants.
Hi James and B.D.Now friends, The possum pepper I was talking about was not potentised but mixed very dilutely into sand that passed through a 7mm. screen at the rate of 110gr. / 7tonne batch. It was prepared by a concrete mixing firm. In giving these measurements please do not take it as my recomendation of the ideal. It is just what we did at the time. Some of this material that was left over from the aerial drop was what Gary Blake took home. As his property was reasonably trapped out I suggested to him to work around his boundary throwing a handfull each way every twenty meters or so. According to someone poisening possums by bait station the possums would not touch the two stations clossest to the boundary. I have no exact data on how far apart these stations are set but it was suggested to me that they were about 100m. apart. In the 70's when I first started potentising horn manure and spreading it in the back garden I noticed that the spray would not radiate into areas not covered by the spray. It had been my observation that Horn manure stired for an hour would radiate about 1m. in three days. If a teaspoon of compost prep is innoculated into a flat paddock it will radiate several hundred meters and when I treated about 110 acres like this which was approximately half the grazing round there was a noticable difference to the milk volume and the cows manure in the yard. It appears to me that the more we process prep material the less it radiates. In heaps that are raised up above the general ground level I have observed that the preparations do not leave the heap. So what happens when we prep. manure that is below the level of the ground? When broadcasting from a pipe or tree one can ask that the broadcast be to a certain fence line and 95% of the time the affected area stops directly under the wire. Much more accurate than with a map. Saves paper too!! I haven't had any experince with card preps or electonic potencies so I can't talk about them. Best wishes, Peter. Dear Lloyd, The idea that potentised preps stay put as proposed by Glen does not agree with my understanding and use of radionically prepared substances. It would appear you are indentifying an essential difference between Potentised and radionic preps - all the more reason to be clear in their naming when discussing them. By their very nature of application I would expect radionic preps to radiate. re potentised preps radiation , please inspect the pictures on my website, especially the Kale trials, where three plants, side by side, from the same punnet have been sprayed differently with 3 different outcomes. When I first began using pot. preps and spread them with a brush I had green strips across the lawn, which did not even out. (This was done 12 years ago and similiar results have occurred since) This was the first hint. I recently did trials on coriander, very close together which have shown the same effect. We also have on video -CD available- the results of some spring spraying where there is a distinct line in the paddock between the sprayed and unsprayed areas. One is dairy pasture the other is all off to seed. No diffused area whatsover. The results and pictures speak for themselves. What is your explanation if you do not accept these pictures proposal? If radionic preps stayed put you would not be able to use a small amount in your BC and expect it to permeate through the whole mix. It would just be a few drops scattered amongst the compost. if there was not a radiational effect Glen would not be able to claim that his possum retardant can be mixed into sand and a handful thrown out every 20 metres or so. The story above is from Peter Bacchus who was spreading unpotentised possum ash. Which no doubt has a radiation effect. Over the last 10 months I have been spraying pot. possum preps , not peppers, and it is obvious from the possum trails leading into and out of the tree on the edge of the sprayed area, that traffic in is normal from two directions - as seen in tracks thru long grass- however the track to the house from the tree was difficult to see, hence little to no use. Sadly I did not video this before the grass was eaten off. Supposing that you were to dilute a litre of preps from Glen, in whatever amount of water that he suggests, if the homoeopathic preps had no radiational effect on the rest of the water why would you dilute it. Is the water just a carrier or does something happen to the water. It seems to me that the memory pattern from the potentised preps permeates the medium through osmosis. Yes the water is acting as a carrier of the potentised preps. It is mixing with and being carried by, no doubt there is some combining into the memory function of the water. Where it carries it to though, is were it stays. Thus we suggest fine sprays over the area to be treated. with regards potentised weed
Re: Chromas and humus Was Electronic homeopathy for plants.
Dear Lloyd, I agree with your sentiments about intent being a factor in Radionics, however it is not solely what makes radionics work. In NZ they are having great results with patients who have mental afflictions by getting them to write out an affirmation and putting it into the instrument and broadcasting it to them. That does not mean that it is the intent that drove the instrument, because, if we repeat an affirmation without an instrument it will work just as well. The radionic instrument enables the focus of the interference pattern that is being broadcast to the witness, regardless of wherever it may be. In experimental work my aim is just to see what will happen purely by putting a certain action into movement and see what happens. Experimentation requires that you get out of your own way and not try to pre determine the results. The work needs to be systematic and follow a pattern of analysis, diagnosis of why the problem is there, then we can approach how to treat the problem. To try to put the action of a radionic instrument as being just down to intent, or any homeopathic remedy, is an attempt to simplify what is a very complex interaction of forces. Ruth Drown trained all trainees to not try and second guess what you think the answer will be. What seems to be more important than intent is the state of mind of the operator. If Glen had malevolent thoughts for whatever reason about Joe Bloggs, who he was making a remedy for, thenhis thoughts would be transferred to the remedy and spread out through Joe Blogg's farm. When doing any of this type of work, if your intent when making the remedy is to kill those little pests of insects or animals, you will find that the energy will come back to you. The mind needs to be as clear as possible. Dr David Perle, in a lecture on radionics in 1935, stressed the first step in radionics is that it is necessary to become as thoroughly familiar, and as thoroughly in tune as possible with the theory and philosophy behind it. That is one cannot think of yesterday and do the work of today. We must be in harmony with this system of tuning in to the Infinite. On the basis of trying to understand the theory if we are merely carrying out routine procedure, not thinking right, or not knowing why we are taking a particular course, we will not get as good effects as if we understand the theory and philosophy behind what we do. I see radionics as a tool for spiritual growth in much the same way as Joey Korn saw dowsing. If we aspire to become creators the source of our energy is the Infinite.Working with radionics inspires great awe within me for the intelligent creation of the Universes and the spiritual beings who guide me though this incarnation.. To have the power to influence the actions of others, whether it is to bring into effect a healing reaction in a patient, or to hold the power of life or death over an insect , a person or an animal through your actions is to step into a different level of spiritual awareness of the implications of our actions. Kind regards to you and your family. I hope to be able to catch up with you at the workshop in Young. James - Original Message - From: Lloyd Charles [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Thursday, March 13, 2003 12:39 AM Subject: Re: Chromas and humus Was Electronic homeopathy for plants. - Original Message - From: James Hedley [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Wednesday, March 12, 2003 8:21 PM Subject: Re: Chromas and humus Was Electronic homeopathy for plants. Dear Lloyd, The idea that potentised preps stay put as proposed by Glen does not agree with my understanding and use of radionically prepared substances. If radionic preps stayed put you would not be able to use a small amount in your BC and expect it to permeate through the whole mix. It would just be a few drops scattered amongst the compost. if there was not a radiational effect Glen would not be able to claim that his possum retardant can be mixed into sand and a handful thrown out every 20 metres or so. To say that there is not a radiational effect from the use of radionically prepared substances implies that somehow different laws apply to radionics than apply to the rest of the natural world. It is difficult to isolate a trial area, as you have commented, but not impossible. One method used by Bruce Copen to define the area for a radionic broadcast trial was to mark off the area to be tested with 4 copper rods sticking out of the ground to a height of 1 metre and then take soil or leaf samples from this area as a witness. The radionic broadcast then confines to the marked area. Hi James I dont disagree with what you wrote but does this all maybe come back to intent . If Glens underlying intent when potentising his remedies was that they would only treat where they were sprayed then I believe that is what would happen, and if you believe or intend that what
Re: Chromas and humus Was Electronic homeopathy for plants.
Dear glen, Thanks for your reply. I don't think that I will take this point further until I see your web page. Wont be able to get to it for a few days as I have a workshop on this weekend. Will resume discussion sometime next week. Go well James - Original Message - From: Garuda [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Thursday, March 13, 2003 8:34 AM Subject: Re: Chromas and humus Was Electronic homeopathy for plants. - Original Message - From: James Hedley [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Wednesday, March 12, 2003 10:21 PM Subject: Re: Chromas and humus Was Electronic homeopathy for plants. Dear Lloyd, The idea that potentised preps stay put as proposed by Glen does not agree with my understanding and use of radionically prepared substances. It would appear you are indentifying an essential difference between Potentised and radionic preps - all the more reason to be clear in their naming when discussing them. By their very nature of application I would expect radionic preps to radiate. re potentised preps radiation , please inspect the pictures on my website, especially the Kale trials, where three plants, side by side, from the same punnet have been sprayed differently with 3 different outcomes. When I first began using pot. preps and spread them with a brush I had green strips across the lawn, which did not even out. (This was done 12 years ago and similiar results have occurred since) This was the first hint. I recently did trials on coriander, very close together which have shown the same effect. We also have on video -CD available- the results of some spring spraying where there is a distinct line in the paddock between the sprayed and unsprayed areas. One is dairy pasture the other is all off to seed. No diffused area whatsover. The results and pictures speak for themselves. What is your explanation if you do not accept these pictures proposal? If radionic preps stayed put you would not be able to use a small amount in your BC and expect it to permeate through the whole mix. It would just be a few drops scattered amongst the compost. if there was not a radiational effect Glen would not be able to claim that his possum retardant can be mixed into sand and a handful thrown out every 20 metres or so. The story above is from Peter Bacchus who was spreading unpotentised possum ash. Which no doubt has a radiation effect. Over the last 10 months I have been spraying pot. possum preps , not peppers, and it is obvious from the possum trails leading into and out of the tree on the edge of the sprayed area, that traffic in is normal from two directions - as seen in tracks thru long grass- however the track to the house from the tree was difficult to see, hence little to no use. Sadly I did not video this before the grass was eaten off. Supposing that you were to dilute a litre of preps from Glen, in whatever amount of water that he suggests, if the homoeopathic preps had no radiational effect on the rest of the water why would you dilute it. Is the water just a carrier or does something happen to the water. It seems to me that the memory pattern from the potentised preps permeates the medium through osmosis. Yes the water is acting as a carrier of the potentised preps. It is mixing with and being carried by, no doubt there is some combining into the memory function of the water. Where it carries it to though, is were it stays. Thus we suggest fine sprays over the area to be treated. with regards potentised weed peppers, many people make these and they are sprayed around with a fine spray usually. Peter has a dairy farming client who did Ragwort last year with some pretty amazing results. Maybe he can tell us more about this with regards to seed germination? regards Glen A
Re: Chromas and humus Was Electronic homeopathy for plants.
Dear Glen, What was the qualitative difference between the radionically potentised preparations and the hand succussing? It would be hard to put it up as a valid test if both doses were not derived from the same substance. One batch of preps could vary very markedly from those prepared at a different time. Were the symptom pictures the same at both times? You may be right that your manually potentised preps are better than radionically prepared preps, but somehow it is important to compare apples with apples and that it is the same parameters that are being tested. An agronomist friend of mine claims that before you can visually see a difference in a pasture there would have to be at least 25% difference to be able to see it. I have looked at the problem of chromas as a measurement indicator, however much of the skill with this type of qualitative analysis is in the evaluation. Different viewers will put different interpretations on the chromas. Quality such as that one substance was better than another cannot be ascertained without first setting the parameters that indicate quality. Could we do it by comparison of Brix levels, and would that be an overall comparison of quality? The problems of how to set up an experiment so the results can be considered valid are a biometricians nightmare. A trial could never be considered conclusive if it was based only on one experiment on one plant. Maybe what is needed is the same sort of dedication shown by Lili Kolisko or Maria Thun of trying to test for the effects of substance and forces. that would require the financial support of those who have the most to gain.Would the New Zealand Biodynamic Association be prepared to support you in a long term evaluation project. It may even be better to take your ideas out to conventional farmers who have a need for your expertise. This is the century of the ECO Age as my friend Liz Davis calls it. Companies are looking for solutions to problems. For instance how much would Cotton Australia support research into non toxic weed control. How much would Simplot support you if you could show them how your techniques could stop spoiling on their potatoes, or increase yields? If you can show that your techniques work it could help McDonalds with their new direction of trying to source more clean green food. They have a huge war chest that is there to support the push for a new image for big Mac's. How can the BD industry help them to achieve their goals?It is just not a case of getting people to buy BD food, or to farm biodynamically. You have to be in the right market at the right time. The concept of radionics will be far easier to sell than hand succussed preps because it has an economic advantage and fits more into the culture of the day. We have moved into the era of the air, with electricity, TV, radio and electronics. Radionics is in the right market at the right time. People accept radionics. Just look at how many paying customers turn up for an Arden Andersen, Phillip Wheeler or Hugh Lovel workshop. Try getting those numbers to a BD workshop. After all our experimenting for the next 50 years to try and statistically prove that biodynamic food is qualitively better we would still have lost the opportunity. There has already been 80 years of research into biodynamics without inroads into the mainstream. BD has never been marketed from an emotional perspective. Steve Diver summed up the whole marketing approach for our techniques which is to appeal to the emotions. The opportunity is in the moment NOW. Give the people what they desire most and they will beat a path to your door. Kind regards James - Original Message - From: Garuda [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Thursday, March 13, 2003 3:32 PM Subject: Re: Chromas and humus Was Electronic homeopathy for plants. # Glen - When you say potentised preps is that specifically potentised by dilution and sucussion? Yes prepared physically by hand. I can not really help you with radionically applied either by spray or device, and their effect, as I have not had alot of experience of them. The few tests I have done with my physically potentised preps and radionic versions - via square box- of the same, produced very different results in me when I have taken them. The radionic preps effect was minimal compared to the physical pot prep. I need to do more trials on this before I am convinced Radionic preps and potentised preps are the same thing. Can someone provide some picture evidence of the effect on plants re radionic preps verses control please, ala those on my website / Case Studies? cheers GA # When I talk of radionically prepared preps I mean things that are potentised by instrument but are then applied by spraying out onto a target . I have assumed that both of the above stay where you put them and was hoping that your work would support that assumption in both cases. (this has important implications for how we
Re: Chromas and humus Was Electronic homeopathy for plants.
Lloyd Trials we have done with our preparations have shown that 250mls per hectare is about the lowest amount I would suggest you apply for 1:10 hand potentised preps. More is probably OK for most circumstances, however less is definitely not suggested - by me anyway. Tests are good Glen A - Original Message - From: Lloyd Charles [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Thursday, March 13, 2003 8:08 PM Subject: Re: Chromas and humus Was Electronic homeopathy for plants. Hi Glen Thanks for the reply # Glen - When you say potentised preps is that specifically potentised by dilution and sucussion? Yes prepared physically by hand. I still have a lot of my chemical farmer mentality hanging around in the background - if I made -say - a weed pepper hand potentised how much quantity of it would I need to put into my 1300litre spray tank to cover 26 hectares? Cheryl tells me 10 drops is enough and while in theory I can say she may be right, I have a mental problem with ten drops. I can not really help you with radionically applied either by spray or device, and their effect, as I have not had alot of experience of them. Looks like I need to trial this at home. Can someone provide some picture evidence of the effect on plants re radionic preps verses control please, ala those on my website / Case Studies? I might have a couple of good pictures soon that would help with this, can I email them to you. (thats if i can get them scanned in properly) cheers Lloyd Charles
Re: Chromas and humus Was Electronic homeopathy for plants.
- Original Message - From: Garuda [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Friday, March 14, 2003 7:45 AM Subject: Re: Chromas and humus Was Electronic homeopathy for plants. Lloyd Trials we have done with our preparations have shown that 250mls per hectare is about the lowest amount I would suggest you apply for 1:10 hand potentised preps. More is probably OK for most circumstances, however less is definitely not suggested - by me anyway. Tests are good Glen A Thanks Glen With single potencies I use the instrument to potentise the tank load - thats easy - for combinations I have been potentising a twenty litre drum of each then adding those to the tank - works out to about 750ml / ha of each. I also believe that combinations made with an instrument (say four weed peppers on the plate potentised into a tank at once) are far less effective than making the four singly with the same instrument and mixing in the tank, my dowsing says the extra trouble is worth it. Many will disagree with this (my instrument maker for sure thinks I am wrong) For these potentised remedies to work in anything like the manner that we talk of, the energy pattern must be locked into the original substance that we potentise, the water (or other medium) that we use later to spread it over the treated area can have no dilution effect on the actual potentised substance so yes I think your 250ml is low enough. Cheers Lloyd Charles
Re: Chromas and humus Was Electronic homeopathy for plants.
Thanks Peter for the great post. Could I ask the area you covered with the seven ton of sand? Is it still working? I ask this because a site in the Adelaide hills that had Kites protecting it from rabbits, is still rabbit rabbit free twenty years after a bush fire took the fences and the Kites.. One can watch the rabbits running feet from the simple fire wire fence and not looking like entering the protected property. Gil Peter Michael Bacchus wrote: Hi James and B.D.Now friends, The possum pepper I was talking about was not potentised but mixed very dilutely into sand that passed through a 7mm. screen at the rate of 110gr. / 7tonne batch.
Re: Chromas and humus Was Electronic homeopathy for plants.
see below - Original Message - From: James Hedley [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Friday, March 14, 2003 1:55 AM Subject: Re: Chromas and humus Was Electronic homeopathy for plants. Dear Glen, What was the qualitative difference between the radionically potentised preparations and the hand succussing? It would be hard to put it up as a valid test if both doses were not derived from the same substance. One batch of preps could vary very markedly from those prepared at a different time. They were developed from the same base essence Were the symptom pictures the same at both times? The essence used was known to develop a dramatic onesided effect in humans We had three people trial the difference The effect of the hand done one was so dramatic on one subject that they needed the antidote within minutes. The box produced one had not such effect. I may have used the box incorrectly however I did follow the instructions. AS I say I need to do more such trials before anything really conclusive. We have just got onto other things lately. You may be right that your manually potentised preps are better than radionically prepared preps, I am not saying better I am say 'act differently' but somehow it is important to compare apples with apples and that it is the same parameters that are being tested. An agronomist friend of mine claims that before you can visually see a difference in a pasture there would have to be at least 25% difference to be able to see it. I have looked at the problem of chromas as a measurement indicator, however much of the skill with this type of qualitative analysis is in the evaluation. Different viewers will put different interpretations on the chromas. Quality such as that one substance was better than another cannot be ascertained without first setting the parameters that indicate quality. Could we do it by comparison of Brix levels, and would that be an overall comparison of quality? Certainly of effect. The problems of how to set up an experiment so the results can be considered valid are a biometricians nightmare. A trial could never be considered conclusive if it was based only on one experiment on one plant. Maybe what is needed is the same sort of dedication shown by Lili Kolisko or Maria Thun of trying to test for the effects of substance and forces. that would require the financial support of those who have the most to gain.Would the New Zealand Biodynamic Association be prepared to support you in a long term evaluation project. They have not been so far so, no reason to believe they would in the future. They are not interested in any form of homeopathic or radionic research here. Ostriches mate. To date BD researchers - unless they come from Europe - do not rate as having any valid reason for even being members of the Assn, and definitely not to be listened too. They would rather bumble along believing the half cooked ideas of their ideologs, and recant their errors every few years, than listen to experience. So be it. NZ Demeter growers are the lowest priority for us to supply to, Strange really. Maybe the Ozzie BDA would be interested it seems you have a much livelier open minded group going on there. Who knows we maybe able to fund such a project in the near future ourselves. We have a significant research budget allocated this year. re acceptance of radionics. put the proof on paper and get the research through a official channel. I have been amazed at the doors flinging open to us since we have the Hortresearch documents on our warmth spray. We now exist. The industry was happy to loose $110 million last spring, and still not invest in a $10 bottle of our product - on the market and advertised for 5 years - to do a trial for themselves. Go figure. I have learnt my lesson. cheers Glen A
Re: Chromas and humus Was Electronic homeopathy for plants.
James Hedley writes: Dear Glen, What was the qualitative difference between the radionically potentised preparations and the hand succussing? It would be hard to put it up as a valid test if both doses were not derived from the same substance. One batch of preps could vary very markedly from those prepared at a different time. Were the symptom pictures the same at both times? You may be right that your manually potentised preps are better than radionically prepared preps, but somehow it is important to compare apples with apples and that it is the same parameters that are being tested. An agronomist friend of mine claims that before you can visually see a difference in a pasture there would have to be at least 25% difference to be able to see it.. . . . Kind regards James Dear Glen, James, et. al., I think it was generous of James to say that Glen may be right that his manually potentized preps are better then radionically prepared preps. Which is not to suggest that James's radionically potentized preps are better either. But I might remind both that in Steiner's agriculture course he remarks how the enthusiasm of the practitioner for his method enters into his remedies, and it counts for a lot. So it seems to me that both Glen and James might make remedies with great enthusiasm. A couple years ago James' story about the Portugese milipedes in Gulgong and how he got rid of them with his radionic instrument and spraying was a great example of enthusiasm and its effectiveness. Personally I once shared Glen's view that manually potentized preps simply had to be better. But I found myself having to be very fussy about measurments and once in a while I caught myself making mistakes in one fashion or another. My enthusiasm suffered, and I tried a few radionic potentizations of water. My results were good, so my enthusiasm for making radionic potencies grew a bit. Harvey Lisle criticized and could generally tell by dowsing which were radionic and which were manually diluted and succussed. After all, that information is there in the ethers. But instead of considering the results he simply dismissed the radionic potencies as dead. This was an opinion he and I had shared to a few years earlier at a radionic conference when we had first seen radionic BD preps made with a hieronymus instrument and a double dial rate setting. I felt the enthusiasm that went into my radionic preps (which were prepared by Lorraine Cahill with her Malcolm Rae instrument) was definitely not dead and that he was mixing dowsing with prejudice--always a bad combination. I must admit to a contrary streak and this had the effect of hardening my resolve to investigate radionic potencies, and I'm not at all sorry I have. In the process I've found that radionics is quick, clean, precise and sure. All of these add fire to my enthusiasm for radionics. I don't think radionics is any end all or be all. I think we each potentially have the power to make potencies without any equipment--just our own bodies and spirits, our minds, hearts and wills. I think that way will grow in peoples' enthusiasms and will become the method of preference for the folks of tomorrow, as it was for that guy back a couple thousand years ago in Palestine. Right now people are crawling, or they are walking on crutches. That's okay. It just isn't the wave of the future is all. Best, Hugh Lovel Visit our website at: www.unionag.org
Re: Chromas and humus Was Electronic homeopathy for plants.
Dear Lloyd, The idea that potentised preps stay put as proposed by Glen does not agree with my understanding and use of radionically prepared substances. If radionic preps stayed put you would not be able to use a small amount in your BC and expect it to permeate through the whole mix. It would just be a few drops scattered amongst the compost. if there was not a radiational effect Glen would not be able to claim that his possum retardant can be mixed into sand and a handful thrown out every 20 metres or so. I test the radiational effect of radionic substances with a radionic instrument in this way. Take some of the substance, say in a watering can, and sprinkle it out over a defined area. leave for some time, maybe 2 or 3 days then take soil samples at 1 metre intervals. Test the soil samples to find if there is any of the substance that you have broadcast. This is done by either dialling in the rate for that substance and then seeing if you get a stick,from a match with the soil sampleand the witness.My tests have shown that the radiational effect is usually somewhere between 17 and 40 times, the size of the treated area. There have been no outside influences such as an instrument. It is purely and simply natural forces. To say that there is not a radiational effect from the use of radionically prepared substances implies that somehow different laws apply to radionics than apply to the rest of the natural world. Supposing that you were to dilute a litre of preps from Glen, in whatever amount of water that he suggests, if the homoeopathic preps had no radiational effect on the rest of the water why would you dilute it. Is the water just a carrier or does something happen to the water. It seems to me that the memory pattern from the potentised preps permeates the medium through osmosis. An example of the radiational effect of peppering is a 12month trial that we have just comleted at Willow Tree on control of St Johns Wort. the aim of the trial was to test the effect of a method that we have developed of making high homoeopathic peppers of St John's Wort. The trial has confirmed earlier research on Serrated Tussock which indicated viability of seed, both on the plant and in the seed bank in the soil can be reduced markedly by our method of weed pepper production and application. These trials prove conclusively that there is a radiational effect from the pepper sprayed on the surface of the soil otherwise we would not be able to devitalise seed under the soil. The applications of this research of using a non toxic species specific pre emergence weedicide could revolutionise the widespread application of chemical herbicides. The next stage is to take the method to trial large scale application over 500 acres. The surrounding area of the trial was covered with St John's Wort whereas the trial area had zero germination. A most pleasing result. It is difficult to isolate a trial area, as you have commented, but not impossible. One method used by Bruce Copen to define the area for a radionic broadcast trial was to mark off the area to be tested with 4 copper rods sticking out of the ground to a height of 1 metre and then take soil or leaf samples from this area as a witness. The radionic broadcast then confines to the marked area. This may help anyone who wanted experiment with comparing radionic broadcast to non treated areas as you can have several strips alongside each other. It could be worth trying.Will keep you informed how this method works out. Kindest regards James Hedley Radiasesthesia and Radionic Analysis Radionic Insect and Parasite control Bioethical Agriculture Consultant - Original Message - From: Lloyd Charles [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Wednesday, March 12, 2003 9:48 AM Subject: Re: Chromas and humus Was Electronic homeopathy for plants. - Original Message - From: Steve Diver [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Wednesday, March 12, 2003 2:36 AM Subject: Re: Electronic homeopathy for plants. Was Re: late winter farm Chromas as intellectual curiosity? Chromas are a practical approach to the humus farmers in Austria and Switzerland, who work their soils with humified compost, cover crops, spading machines, rotations, and related humus management practices to achieve biological health, clay-humus crumb, and associated mineral availability. Hi Steve I dont think you'd get much argument about the value of chromas as you have described above Lets come back around the circle and look at this again 1 I made some barrel compost using radionically made preps instead of the physical ones - heck I had enough cow manure for two pits and only one set of preps - and I was curious as to what would happen. 2. The stuffs done and visually there is no difference and there was none as it went through the process 3 We tested these two lots energetically with a radionic machine and by dowsing and for practical purposes there
Re: Chromas and humus Was Electronic homeopathy for plants.
- Original Message - From: James Hedley [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Wednesday, March 12, 2003 8:21 PM Subject: Re: Chromas and humus Was Electronic homeopathy for plants. Dear Lloyd, The idea that potentised preps stay put as proposed by Glen does not agree with my understanding and use of radionically prepared substances. If radionic preps stayed put you would not be able to use a small amount in your BC and expect it to permeate through the whole mix. It would just be a few drops scattered amongst the compost. if there was not a radiational effect Glen would not be able to claim that his possum retardant can be mixed into sand and a handful thrown out every 20 metres or so. To say that there is not a radiational effect from the use of radionically prepared substances implies that somehow different laws apply to radionics than apply to the rest of the natural world. It is difficult to isolate a trial area, as you have commented, but not impossible. One method used by Bruce Copen to define the area for a radionic broadcast trial was to mark off the area to be tested with 4 copper rods sticking out of the ground to a height of 1 metre and then take soil or leaf samples from this area as a witness. The radionic broadcast then confines to the marked area. Hi James I dont disagree with what you wrote but does this all maybe come back to intent . If Glens underlying intent when potentising his remedies was that they would only treat where they were sprayed then I believe that is what would happen, and if you believe or intend that what you do will radiate out then that should be what happens with yours. This is a major factor in radionics and we probably all under rate it. Cheers Lloyd Charles 'thought preceeds energy - energy preceeds substance'
Re: Chromas and humus Was Electronic homeopathy for plants.
- Original Message - From: James Hedley [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Wednesday, March 12, 2003 10:21 PM Subject: Re: Chromas and humus Was Electronic homeopathy for plants. Dear Lloyd, The idea that potentised preps stay put as proposed by Glen does not agree with my understanding and use of radionically prepared substances. It would appear you are indentifying an essential difference between Potentised and radionic preps - all the more reason to be clear in their naming when discussing them. By their very nature of application I would expect radionic preps to radiate. re potentised preps radiation , please inspect the pictures on my website, especially the Kale trials, where three plants, side by side, from the same punnet have been sprayed differently with 3 different outcomes. When I first began using pot. preps and spread them with a brush I had green strips across the lawn, which did not even out. (This was done 12 years ago and similiar results have occurred since) This was the first hint. I recently did trials on coriander, very close together which have shown the same effect. We also have on video -CD available- the results of some spring spraying where there is a distinct line in the paddock between the sprayed and unsprayed areas. One is dairy pasture the other is all off to seed. No diffused area whatsover. The results and pictures speak for themselves. What is your explanation if you do not accept these pictures proposal? If radionic preps stayed put you would not be able to use a small amount in your BC and expect it to permeate through the whole mix. It would just be a few drops scattered amongst the compost. if there was not a radiational effect Glen would not be able to claim that his possum retardant can be mixed into sand and a handful thrown out every 20 metres or so. The story above is from Peter Bacchus who was spreading unpotentised possum ash. Which no doubt has a radiation effect. Over the last 10 months I have been spraying pot. possum preps , not peppers, and it is obvious from the possum trails leading into and out of the tree on the edge of the sprayed area, that traffic in is normal from two directions - as seen in tracks thru long grass- however the track to the house from the tree was difficult to see, hence little to no use. Sadly I did not video this before the grass was eaten off. Supposing that you were to dilute a litre of preps from Glen, in whatever amount of water that he suggests, if the homoeopathic preps had no radiational effect on the rest of the water why would you dilute it. Is the water just a carrier or does something happen to the water. It seems to me that the memory pattern from the potentised preps permeates the medium through osmosis. Yes the water is acting as a carrier of the potentised preps. It is mixing with and being carried by, no doubt there is some combining into the memory function of the water. Where it carries it to though, is were it stays. Thus we suggest fine sprays over the area to be treated. with regards potentised weed peppers, many people make these and they are sprayed around with a fine spray usually. Peter has a dairy farming client who did Ragwort last year with some pretty amazing results. Maybe he can tell us more about this with regards to seed germination? regards Glen A
Re: Chromas and humus Was Electronic homeopathy for plants.
Dear Glen and James Can we take the definitions just a bit further please - maybe we can save confusing people any further. I am sloppy with language - my Granma used to chastise me for it when I was a kid and I have not improved much! So some of this is undoudtedly due to that. # Glen - When you say potentised preps is that specifically potentised by dilution and sucussion? # When I talk of radionically prepared preps I mean things that are potentised by instrument but are then applied by spraying out onto a target . I have assumed that both of the above stay where you put them and was hoping that your work would support that assumption in both cases. (this has important implications for how we use these) #Application of either of the above by radionic broadcast of any type I would expect to radiate out to boundaries and be difficult to keep from effecting small areas (test plots) within the broader boundary. Does this make sense? does this agree with your experience or have I strayed somewhere? You have been doing this a lot longer than me and I would appreciate your guidance Thanks Lloyd Charles
Re: Chromas and humus Was Electronic homeopathy for plants.
# Glen - When you say potentised preps is that specifically potentised by dilution and sucussion? Yes prepared physically by hand. I can not really help you with radionically applied either by spray or device, and their effect, as I have not had alot of experience of them. The few tests I have done with my physically potentised preps and radionic versions - via square box- of the same, produced very different results in me when I have taken them. The radionic preps effect was minimal compared to the physical pot prep. I need to do more trials on this before I am convinced Radionic preps and potentised preps are the same thing. Can someone provide some picture evidence of the effect on plants re radionic preps verses control please, ala those on my website / Case Studies? cheers GA # When I talk of radionically prepared preps I mean things that are potentised by instrument but are then applied by spraying out onto a target . I have assumed that both of the above stay where you put them and was hoping that your work would support that assumption in both cases. (this has important implications for how we use these) #Application of either of the above by radionic broadcast of any type I would expect to radiate out to boundaries and be difficult to keep from effecting small areas (test plots) within the broader boundary. Does this make sense? does this agree with your experience or have I strayed somewhere? You have been doing this a lot longer than me and I would appreciate your guidance Thanks Lloyd Charles
Re: Chromas and humus Was Electronic homeopathy for plants.
Hi Glen Thanks for the reply # Glen - When you say potentised preps is that specifically potentised by dilution and sucussion? Yes prepared physically by hand. I still have a lot of my chemical farmer mentality hanging around in the background - if I made -say - a weed pepper hand potentised how much quantity of it would I need to put into my 1300litre spray tank to cover 26 hectares? Cheryl tells me 10 drops is enough and while in theory I can say she may be right, I have a mental problem with ten drops. I can not really help you with radionically applied either by spray or device, and their effect, as I have not had alot of experience of them. Looks like I need to trial this at home. Can someone provide some picture evidence of the effect on plants re radionic preps verses control please, ala those on my website / Case Studies? I might have a couple of good pictures soon that would help with this, can I email them to you. (thats if i can get them scanned in properly) cheers Lloyd Charles
Re: Chromas and humus Was Electronic homeopathy for plants.
- Original Message - From: Steve Diver [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Wednesday, March 12, 2003 2:36 AM Subject: Re: Electronic homeopathy for plants. Was Re: late winter farm Chromas as intellectual curiosity? Chromas are a practical approach to the humus farmers in Austria and Switzerland, who work their soils with humified compost, cover crops, spading machines, rotations, and related humus management practices to achieve biological health, clay-humus crumb, and associated mineral availability. Hi Steve I dont think you'd get much argument about the value of chromas as you have described above Lets come back around the circle and look at this again 1 I made some barrel compost using radionically made preps instead of the physical ones - heck I had enough cow manure for two pits and only one set of preps - and I was curious as to what would happen. 2. The stuffs done and visually there is no difference and there was none as it went through the process 3 We tested these two lots energetically with a radionic machine and by dowsing and for practical purposes there was not much difference (the radionic one a little ahead but not that different) 4 Allan suggested a chroma test of produce grown ( vegetables grain or whatever) using radionic and conventional preps as a comparison. I dont have a problem with chromas for this. 5 I questioned how you would do this because any conventional preps used will spread their influence betyond the application area and probably effect the plots using radionic preps (Glen Atkinson tells us that potentised preps will 'stay put' only effecting where they are applied) If we are going to do comparison tests and then draw some qualitative conclusion from them they must be valid comparisons. My thinking from here on in is that a farm to farm comparison is a real good way of comparing the two farms but a completely invalid way of comparing any one treatment used on the both farms because of the other variables we have introduced - and none of us have the time, money, or energy to spare to do enough of these tests to make it valid. If we cant draw some useful conclusions from the simpler tests we are able to do then maybe its better if we dont draw any conclusions at all. Which brings me back around to the start of your message. If these Swiss and Austrian farmers are using chromas effectively to look at the humus quality of their soil then that should be an ideal way of comparing two batches of barrel compost ? - (I favour energetic testing myself but that has already tested out very similar). I spoke to Cheryl Kemp about this yesterday and will send some samples, I'm sure she would be happy to post the chroma pictures to the Biodynamic Agriculture Australia web site for all to see when the tests are done. Cheers Lloyd Charles
Re: Chromas and humus Was Electronic homeopathy for plants.
Lloyd - You explained the situation in so much greater detail, and based on what you've explained, I'm in agreement that the chroma comparison may not be that helpful. The comment that chromas are an intellectual curiosity was apparently in reference to this specific comparison. Well, BD is a premier humus management system so I thought I'd add a few words on chromas, as chromas are a central tool in humus management evalutation. In the spirit of chromas, we can do more in BD education to explain them and use them. Barrel compost, or CPP, is something that BD has to offer organic farmers and sustainable agriculture on a much wider scale, by the way. There are different ways to tweak the recipe and make special cultures. In India, CPP is getting wider and wider attention among farmers far and wide. Have you seen the Wiki over at Larry London's web page. It occurs to me that BD education could be matched to a BiodynamicsWiki; i.e., it would allow the uploading of images, scanned soil test reports, articles, and such, in a web-based open source collection. See: PermacultureWiki http://www.ibiblio.org/ecolandtech/pcwiki/index.php See: CompostWiki || Sub-category at PermacultureWiki http://www.ibiblio.org/ecolandtech/pcwiki/index.php/Composting Here's a compost tea brewer jpg I uploaded one day, as a Wiki test. http://www.ibiblio.org/ecolandtech/pcwiki/pcwikiufu/compost-tea-ca1.jpg Well, sometimes I see a topic and add on resources to expand the story. So let's see where this story goes next, when somebody else adds a chapter. Peace, Steve Diver Lloyd Charles wrote: - Original Message - From: Steve Diver [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Wednesday, March 12, 2003 2:36 AM Subject: Re: Electronic homeopathy for plants. Was Re: late winter farm Chromas as intellectual curiosity? Chromas are a practical approach to the humus farmers in Austria and Switzerland, who work their soils with humified compost, cover crops, spading machines, rotations, and related humus management practices to achieve biological health, clay-humus crumb, and associated mineral availability. Hi Steve I dont think you'd get much argument about the value of chromas as you have described above Lets come back around the circle and look at this again 1 I made some barrel compost using radionically made preps instead of the physical ones - heck I had enough cow manure for two pits and only one set of preps - and I was curious as to what would happen. 2. The stuffs done and visually there is no difference and there was none as it went through the process 3 We tested these two lots energetically with a radionic machine and by dowsing and for practical purposes there was not much difference (the radionic one a little ahead but not that different) 4 Allan suggested a chroma test of produce grown ( vegetables grain or whatever) using radionic and conventional preps as a comparison. I dont have a problem with chromas for this. 5 I questioned how you would do this because any conventional preps used will spread their influence betyond the application area and probably effect the plots using radionic preps (Glen Atkinson tells us that potentised preps will 'stay put' only effecting where they are applied) If we are going to do comparison tests and then draw some qualitative conclusion from them they must be valid comparisons. My thinking from here on in is that a farm to farm comparison is a real good way of comparing the two farms but a completely invalid way of comparing any one treatment used on the both farms because of the other variables we have introduced - and none of us have the time, money, or energy to spare to do enough of these tests to make it valid. If we cant draw some useful conclusions from the simpler tests we are able to do then maybe its better if we dont draw any conclusions at all. Which brings me back around to the start of your message. If these Swiss and Austrian farmers are using chromas effectively to look at the humus quality of their soil then that should be an ideal way of comparing two batches of barrel compost ? - (I favour energetic testing myself but that has already tested out very similar). I spoke to Cheryl Kemp about this yesterday and will send some samples, I'm sure she would be happy to post the chroma pictures to the Biodynamic Agriculture Australia web site for all to see when the tests are done. Cheers Lloyd Charles
Re: Chromas and humus Was Electronic homeopathy for plants.
Barrel compost, or CPP, is something that BD has to offer organic farmers and sustainable agriculture on a much wider scale, by the way. There are different ways to tweak the recipe and make special cultures. In India, CPP is getting wider and wider attention among farmers far and wide. I don't think that anyone who uses it doubts the effectiveness of Maria Thun's barrel compost. Maria Thun mentions in her book that she worked for a very long time to arrive at a recipe that works as dynamically as the one she recommends and that JPI and Hugh Lovel work with. She is especially impressed with the mineral dynamics that dried and crushed egg shells bring to the barrel compost recipe. Another job for chromas, no doubt. My point here is that 'more' may not mean 'more' when one is playing with a recipe developed over the years by one of our leading biodynamic researchers. Of course, it's your shit and your hour of potentizing it and your compost prep kits and your 7 weeks to 6months of waiting for the 'brew' to mature. Do what thou wilt. -Allan
