RE: BD Farming in America
As the snow came fluttering down I thought of snowmen Thats the child in me I was re-born And then recalled Watching Bees in clover GM Pollen mixing with wild corn I looked into the mirror And remembered I was nearly 60 and could see Fancy thinking I'd become a child again Snow though really does strange things to me It flutters with such freedom over everything Nobody escapes Its in our face Children quickly go and find their sledges Then go off sliding all over the place As the snow came fluttering down to-day I wondered What children think as their daddies go to war I am nearly 60 and I'm worried For I'd hoped it wouldn't happen anymore Rex Tyler -Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]]On Behalf Of Hugh Lovel Sent: 06 January 2003 15:15 To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Subject: Re: BD Farming in America Dear Kristy, et. al., I think what you, Jeff, Allan and others, particularly in Hawaii, Texas, the midwest and out on the west coast, have done as regards making BD info available to the public is quite commendable. Also let us not forget the salubrious efforts of Hugh Courtney, without whom we would have little in terms of availability of the Steiner remedies, to say nothing of availability of literature and presence at conferences auch as ACRES. I do not agree that what Alex Podolinsky has done in Australia is any model to copy, as he has run a rigid and even hidebound program where those who venture outside of his box can be excommunicated. But at least he has created a support system for farmers who want to put BD into practice. The BDGFAA (Biodynamic Farming and Gardening Association of Australia) arose in response to the need for more openness than Podolinsky allowed, and it wouldn't do to give Podolinsky full credit for their efforts. They have really done a lot--perhaps more than Alex--to spread BD in Australia. Here in the US it has always been my impression--though for a brief period we did have a national extension agent--that there was no real support for farmers from the central organization. If anything there was a cult atmosphere coming from the central offices and I think it discouraged and turned off people right and left. In my own case I have let my membership in the BD Association lapse after 25 years of trying to pull biodynamics forward against the inertia, resistance and cult atmosphere of the central offices. Maybe Greg is being extreme in his criticism, but when Demeter excommunicated him and prohibited Victor Landa from using the term biodynamic on any products not certified by Demeter I had my fill of wrongheadedness. I'm calling what I do Quantum Agriculture and I only use the term biodynamic in a transitional way. I don't support the BDA or Demeter in any way at this point. Probably I'm one of those Greg refered to who dropped out because they cannot stomach the dogmatism, obstructionism and cultishness any further. I believe I'm pretty thick skinned or I couldn't have taken it as long as I did. The whole fumble of claiming to be the focus of the CSA movement and then doing nothing--even terminating the CSA conferences--was vexation enough and I should have left then. But there have been enough other blunders, including terminating the national extension program, that I should have identified the BDA as non-viable long ago. As far as I'm concerned they are baggage--excess baggage in my case. I can't see any reason for name calling or getting upset or any of that jazz. I have noticed that I'm reaching a wider audience with field broadcasters by calling my work quantum agriculture instead of BD. I suspect BD has a notorious reputation as being inscrutable, cultish and a big turn-off to many farmers. Really most farmers don't understand quantum mechanics either, but I don't seem to face anything like the rejection of my message by couching it in those terms. My lecture room at ACRES was full this time. I seem to be getting further by leaving BD behind. Does that tell you anything? It's still the same remedies, still the same insights into how nature works, I still talk about Rudolf Steiner and the whole nine yards. I just leave the terminology of biodynamic behind. Quite frankly I think it is just fine that Demeter owns the term. Let them have it. As far as I'm concerned it was a big lead anchor around my waist. Best, Hugh Lovel Dear Allan, We have certainly made ourselves available regionally, and offer advice and suggestions for numerous growers each year, plus orgainzing educational events. Jeff Poppen is always also taking in visitors, and holding educational events, writing and doing the TV shows. Allan, you do a huge amount of educational work yourself. JPI has its new farmer advisory program. I think we are wishing for an outdated paradigm when we expect to have some top down organizational figure heads baby us through our movement. This is the era of the conciousness soul, the age of individuality. What ever is lacking
Re: BD Farming in America
David If you want good leadership in a democratic organisation, or country for that matter, it is the responsibility of the membership or citizens to use their rights to ensure that A) You have good leaders and B) The leaders carry out the masses wishes. If only this was possible. In my experience, Positions of power are sought by people in need of power and in their need they are there to pursue their personal goals. We have one (too) long serving council member who -after being reelected at the last AGM- stated 'anything he does not want to happen in the association will not happen'. Too bad he did not say it before the election. This same member has been formally asked to resign by fellow council members, however due to a strickly controlled NZBDA media none of the general membership have heard anything abpout the debilitating effect he has had for many years. We need a free and open media to have a half decent form of democracy. A leadership which enpowers its membership will be supported by the membership. No membership support means they - as a whole- did not support your policies and actions. Glen A
Re: BD Farming in America
Hi! Gary, You make a very valid point. It is fine for those of us who have been around a while to speak in some sort of cryptic short hand, that only we understand, but what about the casual visitor or those early on the path and wondering what it is all about. Good point and one that should be addressed by Allan as the list Sysop. Most of the people on the list are much more experienced than I am. I have been non chemical for a period, organic for a shorter period and Biodynamic for even a lessor period. The further confuse you I am really into Permaculture, Radiesthesia and Radionics! All these fit together for me, into a way of producing food (mainly for me and my family) that is GM Free, Chemical Free and as healthy as we know at this point in time. In our heavily compromised soil in the remote parts of Oz, we have to start with balancing the minerals in the soil and adding a lot of carbon, just to get a soil that was worth starting on. BD, as covered on the list, be it US or Oz or NZ or other, is the cumulating of many years of evolution, starting from the original lectures by RS. RS encouraged us to further develop his work and to add to it. Unfortunately, like happens in some religions, there are those who believe they are the only ones who know the the truth. On this list there are also many free minded ones who know enough, to know they do not know it all. They are the ones who you should share with. They will admit they can still learn. They will tell you all they know and take time to listen to you. If you have specific questions, feel free to post them to the list. Gil Port Lincoln Oz. gary elliott wrote: What is it you have, and why should I listen? That, my friends, is the nub of what you need to answer.. Clarify your message, and foment a revolution of thought in your target audience. Which is the world.
Re: BD Farming in America
Dear Kristy, et. al., I think what you, Jeff, Allan and others, particularly in Hawaii, Texas, the midwest and out on the west coast, have done as regards making BD info available to the public is quite commendable. Also let us not forget the salubrious efforts of Hugh Courtney, without whom we would have little in terms of availability of the Steiner remedies, to say nothing of availability of literature and presence at conferences auch as ACRES. I do not agree that what Alex Podolinsky has done in Australia is any model to copy, as he has run a rigid and even hidebound program where those who venture outside of his box can be excommunicated. But at least he has created a support system for farmers who want to put BD into practice. The BDGFAA (Biodynamic Farming and Gardening Association of Australia) arose in response to the need for more openness than Podolinsky allowed, and it wouldn't do to give Podolinsky full credit for their efforts. They have really done a lot--perhaps more than Alex--to spread BD in Australia. Here in the US it has always been my impression--though for a brief period we did have a national extension agent--that there was no real support for farmers from the central organization. If anything there was a cult atmosphere coming from the central offices and I think it discouraged and turned off people right and left. In my own case I have let my membership in the BD Association lapse after 25 years of trying to pull biodynamics forward against the inertia, resistance and cult atmosphere of the central offices. Maybe Greg is being extreme in his criticism, but when Demeter excommunicated him and prohibited Victor Landa from using the term biodynamic on any products not certified by Demeter I had my fill of wrongheadedness. I'm calling what I do Quantum Agriculture and I only use the term biodynamic in a transitional way. I don't support the BDA or Demeter in any way at this point. Probably I'm one of those Greg refered to who dropped out because they cannot stomach the dogmatism, obstructionism and cultishness any further. I believe I'm pretty thick skinned or I couldn't have taken it as long as I did. The whole fumble of claiming to be the focus of the CSA movement and then doing nothing--even terminating the CSA conferences--was vexation enough and I should have left then. But there have been enough other blunders, including terminating the national extension program, that I should have identified the BDA as non-viable long ago. As far as I'm concerned they are baggage--excess baggage in my case. I can't see any reason for name calling or getting upset or any of that jazz. I have noticed that I'm reaching a wider audience with field broadcasters by calling my work quantum agriculture instead of BD. I suspect BD has a notorious reputation as being inscrutable, cultish and a big turn-off to many farmers. Really most farmers don't understand quantum mechanics either, but I don't seem to face anything like the rejection of my message by couching it in those terms. My lecture room at ACRES was full this time. I seem to be getting further by leaving BD behind. Does that tell you anything? It's still the same remedies, still the same insights into how nature works, I still talk about Rudolf Steiner and the whole nine yards. I just leave the terminology of biodynamic behind. Quite frankly I think it is just fine that Demeter owns the term. Let them have it. As far as I'm concerned it was a big lead anchor around my waist. Best, Hugh Lovel Dear Allan, We have certainly made ourselves available regionally, and offer advice and suggestions for numerous growers each year, plus orgainzing educational events. Jeff Poppen is always also taking in visitors, and holding educational events, writing and doing the TV shows. Allan, you do a huge amount of educational work yourself. JPI has its new farmer advisory program. I think we are wishing for an outdated paradigm when we expect to have some top down organizational figure heads baby us through our movement. This is the era of the conciousness soul, the age of individuality. What ever is lacking in the movement is no one fault but our own. Christy Visit our website at: www.unionag.org
Re: BD Farming in America
I'm really excited about the JPI farmer advisory program. I guess I haven't paid attention to it. can you tell us more about it? Hi Allan, I pasted this from their (Josephine Porter Institute for Applied Biodynamics web site www.jpibiodynamics.org), which is where I heard about it, so I'd like to learn more about it myself. I am glad that they are doing it also. Christy The Josephine Porter Institute for Applied Biodynamics in cooperation with experienced biodynamic farmers is offering the following Advisory Service: Biodynamic Farm Conversion Farmer to Farmer Advisory Service Real farmers, offering practical advice through visits to your farm as well as through seminars dealing with nuts and bolts biodynamic agriculture, rather than armchair imaginations. East Advisor: S. Storch Midwest Advisor: D. Morgan West Advisor: G. Nonini For information and a schedule of our seminars, contact: Josephine Porter Institute for Applied Biodynamics, Inc. PO Box 133 Woolwine, VA 24185 Tel: (276) 930-2463 Fax: (276) 930-2475 Email: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: BD Farming in America
Alright - Guru status! at last do I get a certificate - Original Message - From: D S Chamberlain [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Tuesday, January 07, 2003 11:31 AM Subject: Re: BD Farming in America Glen: Good to know you're still out there listening and your new guru status has not affected your demeanour. In my experience, Positions of power are sought by people in need of power Of course, why else would they take on thankless jobs and become targets for snipers. Hopefully they will use their power for the benefit of all. I always live in hope of such an occurrence. We have one (too) long serving council member who -after being reelected at the last AGM- stated 'anything he does not want to happen in the association will not happen'. Too bad he did not say it before the election. This same member has been formally asked to resign by fellow council members Then the system is working, the fact that his fellow councillors are aware of his shortcomings reduces his power. There's no way to ensure our own version of perfection in all councillors. The other limitations of the system however perpetuates this negativity for years longer than necessary, and wastes far more opportunities than we can really spare. Are we not all on the same team? Should not all interested parties be involved to their abitlities, as a community, instead of being separated as threats to each other? We need a free and open media to have a half decent form of democracy Very, very true. Some years ago I used get the NZBD Association journal I remember they used to publish your somewhat vitriolic letters attacking the then leadership, is that what you mean? I believe that all executive council minutes should be published. My 'vitriolic letters' contained challenging information some would consider liabilous, however I have never been pursued on such charges, as what I outlined was true. The corruption of the system allowed such things to occur and be perpetuated over many years. After some 6 years on the council, trying to deal with it nicely I was very angry, about such things occurring in a organisation selling integrity. Anger is an emotion I believe is at times very appropriate, and I certainly felt OK to express it then. Every action has an opposite and equal reaction. As a Sun Neptune in Libra being, I have been blessed and challenged, with an ability to express 'the reaction' to circumstance and especially abuse. What I confronted in those letters sure appeared to me as abuse of every ethical and moral code you may like to present. Others know this to be true. The sad thing is the dreages of those days still linger on polluting the organisation to this day. As we have seen on this list - a BD free speech zone- we have developed through our rage and separateness and developed into a more mature forum where these things can be bought forward, discussed and acted upon by those who see fit. So a Association newsletter can act as a forum for discussion amoungst far flung members. Editors control as they wish, so best to not have one, if you want truth. The BDANZ is still far from building any sense of 'community' with the resource they have available. It is still a small club /cult imaging the views of the few. The longer they stay as a exclusive cult, the quicker they become irrelevant. Who needs them? A leadership which empowers its membership will be supported by the membership. No membership support means they - as a whole- did not support your policies and actions. Ah if it was only so! My experience is that if the membership is happy with the way things are going, they become complacent and happy to leave all the work to the few, who in their craze for power do all the work. The resultant apathy is not good for the organisation. And so we see another negative manifestation of the craze for power. How about people brimming with enthusiasm who are resourced by the community for the good of the community providing exciting new avenues of exploration and possibilities. Is this not a 3 fold social order ideal? I have been inspired and broadened these last few years through the wealth of imput coming through this ALIVE stream of enthusiastic 'members' on BDNOW who dare to be heretics and live Biodynamics in their lives as it expresses for them , and then share it. Now how can this ethos been bought into the life of the BD associations? Get rid of the deadwood paranoics and swing all available resources into action! We got a PLANET to save. Its nice to have a few moments to comment cheers GA - Original Message - From: Garuda [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Monday, 6 January 2003 7:47 PM Subject: Re: BD Farming in America David If you want good leadership in a democratic organisation, or country for that matter, it is the responsibility of the membership or citizens to use their rights to ensure that A) You
Re: BD Farming in America
Hi all, Couldn't help but comment on this topic. With my conference only a few weeks to go, I've been busy setting up classes (8 from Feb.to May), 5 farm trips this year, mentoring programs for newbies,and so on. Living at 6200+ feet with extremely alkaline soils(9+) and strong west winds continually; the surest way to discouragement is get a newbie excited and then let them figure it out for them selves. Grant some have done it,but most fail. What I'm doing is making it clear right from the git go that if people want to farm, wether it be bd, organic,permaculture or something else sustainable-they will have a mentor. Success is essential due to our goal of providing our local schools with 75% of their food needs within 5 years, thereby keeping millions of dollars in our local economy. When you have got that kind of incentive, mentoring is more than a whim, it is a must. Pat
Re: BD Farming in America
As usual, Pat, you are both right on! and an inspiration. I wish you could afford the time to mentor us all on community organization. -Allan Hi all, Couldn't help but comment on this topic. With my conference only a few weeks to go, I've been busy setting up classes (8 from Feb.to May), 5 farm trips this year, mentoring programs for newbies,and so on. Living at 6200+ feet with extremely alkaline soils(9+) and strong west winds continually; the surest way to discouragement is get a newbie excited and then let them figure it out for them selves. Grant some have done it,but most fail. What I'm doing is making it clear right from the git go that if people want to farm, wether it be bd, organic,permaculture or something else sustainable-they will have a mentor. Success is essential due to our goal of providing our local schools with 75% of their food needs within 5 years, thereby keeping millions of dollars in our local economy. When you have got that kind of incentive, mentoring is more than a whim, it is a must. Pat
Re: BD Farming in America
What I'm getting at is that felt a lot of remorse brought on by the fact that we have no similar organization in the US. Many of the questions that are brought up by new people on the list would be dealt with so much better through a farm visit rather than a reading list or a wisdom thrown into the dark. Barring the development of an organization of cooperative farmers, even simply returning to the 'professional BD farm advisor' system that existed when I got started in biodynamics would be a wonderful thing. Dear Allan, We have certainly made ourselves available regionally, and offer advice and suggestions for numerous growers each year, plus orgainzing educational events. Jeff Poppen is always also taking in visitors, and holding educational events, writing and doing the TV shows. Allan, you do a huge amount of educational work yourself. JPI has its new farmer advisory program. I think we are wishing for an outdated paradigm when we expect to have some top down organizational figure heads baby us through our movement. This is the era of the conciousness soul, the age of individuality. What ever is lacking in the movement is no one fault but our own. Christy
Re: BD Farming in America
Hi! Allan, Good Post. My introduction to BD was AP with that well known TV special, all those years ago. It still took years until I saw other people actually doing it and eating their produce to make me want to make the move. It was then with their help and encouragement that I set out to learn as much as I could and to make the move, having been non chemical for ten years or more. It has also been Hugh Lovel freely sharing his knowledge with all of us that has been of great encouragement. Gil Oz
Re: BD Farming in America
I think we are wishing for an outdated paradigm when we expect to have some top down organizational figure heads baby us through our movement. This is the era of the conciousness soul, the age of individuality. What ever is lacking in the movement is no one fault but our own. Christy Tell me more about this, Christy. I don't really understand what you are saying in the paragraph above, and, to me, it comes across as uncharacteristically mean spirited. I mean, just what am I to make from that paragraph in the face of, for example, 700 BD farms and 2,000,000 BD ACRES in Australia (within just one BD association!) under exaclty the sort or organization you seem to decry? Where are you drawing this 'the age of individuality' from? The age of broken relationships, broken homes, broken communities, broken clergy and so on. I guess I read too much Wendell Berry, but I thought the idea of 'age of individuality' and 'maximum personal freedom' were concepts sown in us by the system that finds both democracies and 'free people' easier to control than people who can still access the traditional support relationships of husband/wife, home/neighborhood, church/community, city/county and so on. (It's not wasted on anyone how much the New World Order fears countries organized in explicitly top down arrangements, is it?
Re: BD Farming in America
Dear Allan, We have certainly made ourselves available regionally, and offer advice and suggestions for numerous growers each year, plus orgainzing educational events. Jeff Poppen is always also taking in visitors, and holding educational events, writing and doing the TV shows. Allan, you do a huge amount of educational work yourself. JPI has its new farmer advisory program. So much of this is headwork. Talking about how to do it is far removed from digging soil profiles or tasting food on each other's farms. The scariest thing about BD, the thing that keeps a lot of purchased preps in the kitchen drawer is the fear of doing it wrong or the fear that things are not working. How does a person know if they don't have access to someone who really does know? I'm really excited about the JPI farmer advisory program. I guess I haven't paid attention to it. can you tell us more about it? Thanks -Allan
Re: BD Farming in America
My two bobs worth: Initially I had to agree with Greg and Allan about the apparent lack of leadership in the USA. Then I started thinking about the time I was part of the BDFGAA council (10 Yrs ago) and the lack of member support we experienced at that time. Consequently I would like to put forward a different view point. If you want good leadership in a democratic organisation, or country for that matter, it is the responsibility of the membership or citizens to use their rights to ensure that A) You have good leaders and B) The leaders carry out the masses wishes. The apathy of the membership transposes its self into a leadership that does as it pleases, mostly because the membership as a whole does not carry out it's responsibility of informing the leadership of it's requirements. Alternately it may be that the leadership is carrying out the memberships wishes and it is a vocal few who would have us believe otherwise. Usually when the above happens those who strongly differ with the leadership resign, then have no official place in the scheme of things and snipe from the sidelines where they are only of nuisance value only and cause a stronger entrenchment of the leadership they oppose. Perhaps the snipers should consider following the democratic process, be part of the membership and challenge the leadership for their positions, unfortunately snipers are usually too busy to follow that process and the current leadership continues because no one else will take on the job. So perhaps the answer lies in giving the current membership a good boot in the arse instead of useless railing against the leadership. Do you really want the alternative of everything being controlled by the all knowing guru? Perhaps it would be more appropriate to have an organisation such as Biodynamics Australia (formerly BDFGAA) who encourage their membership to learn BD for themselves and organise themselves accordingly? I have to agree with you on the poor job the Anthropops are doing selling Steiner to the world and what appears to be either an elitist contempt for passing on the teachings or a lack of understanding of the teaching. I suspect both. I own and have read many Steiner books, I have just finished The Spiritual Hierarchies and the Physical World and the thought I had on finishing was similar to many times before, the book is the usual collection of Steiner lectures given over a long period of time to people who supposedly understood where he was coming from, it had all the usual inconsistent names and distortions that come about because of the insistence of publishing the spoken word of Steiner. The whole book could be edited down to a quarter of it's size to give a clear and concise account of what Steiner had to say. This makes me wonder as Greg suggests, do the Anthropops understand what they are espousing? One would have to doubt it. I suggest they do Steiner a great disservice by spreading such a muddled message. My thoughts David C - Original Message - From: Allan Balliett [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Monday, 6 January 2003 12:07 AM Subject: BD Farming in America There's no one there to teach them. No leader. No wise man. No wise woman. No body. Vacuous. A vacuum at the top, middle and bottom. Good people leave organizations like these - one way or the other. More often than not, if they try to enlighten them, they are kicked out. Which is good for all humanity because this moves things along the Path of Truth. Greg brought up the above. I've been re-reading A.P. recently. Here is an effective transmitter of Steiner's vision. What is it nowadays? 700 farmers working under A.P. and 2,000,000 acres in EFFECTIVE biodynamic management. There are many BD farmers in Australia and one of the major reasons is that BD WORKS under AP's administration. For me, aside from A.P's obvious insights and gifts, one of the major reasons that BD works in Australia is that AP has set up a program of farm visits and of experienced BD farmers working with inexperienced farmers. He doesn't make the service available, he actually demands that anyone starting in biodynamics work with someone A.P. approves of, someone already getting results with biodynamics. Remember, A.P. first demonstrated that BD WORKS in Australia, and then developed his organization afterwards. We've yet to have anyone really do that here in the US, with the exception of Hugh Lovel (who I'd have to say is probably in the best position to explain why we have no equivalent to AP's success in the US) What I'm getting at is that felt a lot of remorse brought on by the fact that we have no similar organization in the US. Many of the questions that are brought up by new people on the list would be dealt with so much better through a farm visit rather than a reading list or a wisdom thrown into the dark. Barring the development of an organization of cooperative farmers, even simply returning
Re: BD Farming in America
What I'm getting at is that felt a lot of remorse brought on by the fact that we have no similar organization in the US. Many of the questions that are brought up by new people on the list would be dealt with so much better through a farm visit rather than a reading list or a wisdom thrown into the dark. Barring the development of an organization of cooperative farmers, even simply returning to the 'professional BD farm advisor' system that existed when I got started in biodynamics would be a wonderful thing. -Allan It seems that folks feel I was bashing the BDA in my post earlier today. I have not expetations of the BDA. I realize that if 'we' want a program like I'm lamenting that we don't have, than we'll have to make it ourselves. I'm a pretty self-actualized person. I'm not expecting someone else to do it, although I am expecting that we can (and should!) do it together. -Allan
RE: BD Farming in America
What is it you have, and why should I listen? That, my friends, is the nub of what you need to answer.. Clarify your message, and foment a revolution of thought in your target audience. Which is the world. Messages designed to only stroke the committed never go far. Please, stop nattering about BD America, or BD Australia. What is it you have to say? Tell the world. This talk about democratic process, leadership.. membership. do you think Jesus, Buddha or Henry Ford had to make decisions this way? Power and influence in this life is assumed... don't try to negotiate it. If the BD message is worthy package it, and tell it. More you. Gary Elliott -Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]] On Behalf Of D S Chamberlain Sent: January 5, 2003 8:31 PM To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Subject: Re: BD Farming in America My two bobs worth: Initially I had to agree with Greg and Allan about the apparent lack of leadership in the USA. Then I started thinking about the time I was part of the BDFGAA council (10 Yrs ago) and the lack of member support we experienced at that time. Consequently I would like to put forward a different view point. If you want good leadership in a democratic organisation, or country for that matter, it is the responsibility of the membership or citizens to use their rights to ensure that A) You have good leaders and B) The leaders carry out the masses wishes. The apathy of the membership transposes its self into a leadership that does as it pleases, mostly because the membership as a whole does not carry out it's responsibility of informing the leadership of it's requirements. Alternately it may be that the leadership is carrying out the memberships wishes and it is a vocal few who would have us believe otherwise. Usually when the above happens those who strongly differ with the leadership resign, then have no official place in the scheme of things and snipe from the sidelines where they are only of nuisance value only and cause a stronger entrenchment of the leadership they oppose. Perhaps the snipers should consider following the democratic process, be part of the membership and challenge the leadership for their positions, unfortunately snipers are usually too busy to follow that process and the current leadership continues because no one else will take on the job. So perhaps the answer lies in giving the current membership a good boot in the arse instead of useless railing against the leadership. Do you really want the alternative of everything being controlled by the all knowing guru? Perhaps it would be more appropriate to have an organisation such as Biodynamics Australia (formerly BDFGAA) who encourage their membership to learn BD for themselves and organise themselves accordingly? I have to agree with you on the poor job the Anthropops are doing selling Steiner to the world and what appears to be either an elitist contempt for passing on the teachings or a lack of understanding of the teaching. I suspect both. I own and have read many Steiner books, I have just finished The Spiritual Hierarchies and the Physical World and the thought I had on finishing was similar to many times before, the book is the usual collection of Steiner lectures given over a long period of time to people who supposedly understood where he was coming from, it had all the usual inconsistent names and distortions that come about because of the insistence of publishing the spoken word of Steiner. The whole book could be edited down to a quarter of it's size to give a clear and concise account of what Steiner had to say. This makes me wonder as Greg suggests, do the Anthropops understand what they are espousing? One would have to doubt it. I suggest they do Steiner a great disservice by spreading such a muddled message. My thoughts David C - Original Message - From: Allan Balliett [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Monday, 6 January 2003 12:07 AM Subject: BD Farming in America There's no one there to teach them. No leader. No wise man. No wise woman. No body. Vacuous. A vacuum at the top, middle and bottom. Good people leave organizations like these - one way or the other. More often than not, if they try to enlighten them, they are kicked out. Which is good for all humanity because this moves things along the Path of Truth. Greg brought up the above. I've been re-reading A.P. recently. Here is an effective transmitter of Steiner's vision. What is it nowadays? 700 farmers working under A.P. and 2,000,000 acres in EFFECTIVE biodynamic management. There are many BD farmers in Australia and one of the major reasons is that BD WORKS under AP's administration. For me, aside from A.P's obvious insights and gifts, one of the major reasons that BD works in Australia is that AP has set up a program of farm visits and of experienced BD farmers working with inexperienced farmers. He doesn't make the service available
Re: BD Farming in America
Hi Allan, Just in from chores for the day, and think you are quite right about doing things ourselves as far as mentoring/cooperative efforts go. Although what I'm doing on the local level is very intensive(pre-school to senior citizens) it does take cooperation, effort and persistence. Without these ingredients and a handful more(community interest, benefit(short and long term) and environmental aspects)you can kiss what you're doing goodbye. People don't always get what's good for them. In our community, severe economic trama makes my way easier. It's sad that it takes a situation so bad to bring change, but it seems it takes the negative to bring change for mankind. So let me ask one thing, if you know people here in NM who farm using BD, let them know about me and my project. Personally, I need a mentor for BD. My efforts to find someone to teach me via an apprenticeship have gone unanswered. No matter the long hours I can put in the farm/field, doing the books or selling at markets, none has gotten me the one thing that would make me happy, hands on BD experience. Learning out of book is one thing, doing it is another. Nuances are everything. Pat
