Breeder - Bunch
Hi all, I was wondering if anyone has any information on a breeder from Colorado with the last name of Bunch. Not sure of the first name. If you know this breeder or know about this breeder, please contact me privately. Thank you - Robin Berryville, VA __ Do you Yahoo!? Yahoo! SiteBuilder - Free, easy-to-use web site design software http://sitebuilder.yahoo.com
Finding a breeder and a puppy
Dear Deasun & Judith A good place to start looking for a breeder in your area as well as get to meet the dogs is to go to the Bernese Mountain Dog Club of America (BMDCA) web site. On that site is a page that has some good information about how to go about looking for a breeder as well as a link to volunteers in the various states who can answer your questions, direct you to Berner events in their area, put you in touch with local BMD clubs and possible breeder contacts. I have put the link to that page in this message. If you still need additional assistance, please let me know and we will be glad to help you. http://www.bmdca.org/pages/puppies.htm";>Click here: Finding a breeder and a puppy <http://www.bmdca.org/pages/puppies.htm> Anne Copeland (Flash CGC, TDIA, 9 yrs. old, Berner; Gypsy CGC, TDI, 2 yrs. old, Cavalier) Northern Illinois [EMAIL PROTECTED], Corr. Sec. BMDCA
Breeder
It's me again. Is Janet Grandstaff out there? Or does anyone know her? She's the breeder of the new baby Orbo I talked about yesterday. The new owner says she's just great. Also, if anyone sees Julie Steinheimer and Babs anytime soon, tell them her boys are doing just great and Tugboat turned out huge. Thanks folks, Andie Reid and Tugboat and Steamboat Wilmington, NC
becoming a breeder
Dear Lisa, Yes I know how hard it is to become a breeder. I know that my first BMD may have problems and I may not be able to breed her. I am not looking for that quick fix. This is going to be a passionate hobby of mine. I don't want or even think I will become rich off being a breeder (thats why I'm becoming a Real Estate Salesperson). I just want to share the great qualities of the BMD with others. I love dogs and I love the qualities of the Bernese. I believe I can do this breed right. I know I can do this and do this well. This is going to be a long hard road and I am ready to work hard. Sincerely, Kristin _ STOP MORE SPAM with the new MSN 8 and get 2 months FREE* http://join.msn.com/?page=features/junkmail
RE: Wanting to be a breeder
Pat, I have always tried to stay in touch with the owners of both the sire and dam of my dogs. The owners of the dams were always very happy to hear any news, I didn't know who the owner of the sire of my first Berner was, the owner of the sire of my second Berner always kept in touch, and the owner of the other sire never ever acknowledged any of the letters or photos that I sent her. I kept her up to date anyway! I think many of us have come a long way from our first dog... And Kristin, it sounds like you're making a great start, just take your time, learn all you can, find a breeder that you respect and can work with, and have fun with your Berners! Some people start out just wanting a pet and wind up becoming breeders, others want to become breeders and wind up just enjoying their companions. Wherever the road leads you, have fun with the dogs - and I know you'll try to do your best by them. I have a tremendous amount of respect for anyone that takes the time to learn about the breed and then to become conscientious breeders themselves - it's not easy, and it can often be a very difficult path to choose. We've got some great people on this List who have spent a great amount of time helping to teach others of us what they know. It's a good start for any who want to learn, but there is just so much to learn! I do wish you the very best, and hope to hear more about how you do with your goals! It may help many others of us learn more as well! Pat Long (& Luther) Berwyn PA
Re: Wanting to be a breeder
In addition to wondering how many people keep in touch with their dog's "paternal grandparents" I also wonder how many breeders keep the sire's owners informed about the puppies throughout their lives. Abra's dad, Ready, is owned by Val Horney and we talk and/or e-mail a few times a week -- I did not know her before getting Abra but now consider her a good friend. She is great at keeping track of Ready's kids, and being supportive of them. Maize and Halo are Abra's daughters so I breed them but keep the other side of their families informed. Halo's paternal grandma is Terri Zimmerman, and she is on a puppy e-mail list for Halo's litter so has been active and involved with the puppies and their owners. The only bad part of that is that it is hard to blame things on the sire when his mom is on the list ;) Mary-Ann Bowman Emma, Abra, Maize and Halo Utah
Re: Wanting to be a breeder
Hi All, This has been a very intersting thread, particularly Lisa's points. Lisa, you did an excellent job pointing out the many considerations involved in deciding to become a breeder. Having worked in rescue for a few years, I saw the consequences of poor breeding. While I'm sure the intentions of the inquirer are good, becoming a breeder is not something one just decides after seeing a beautiful dog like the BMD. It should be something one earns after much involvement in and experience with the breed. Karen Aufdemorte, and puppy in waiting, Caleb
Inquiry (from Canada) about becoming a breeder conclusion
If, as a result of your post or any calls you have made around your area, someone offers you a show pup, from healthy lines, tomorrow, be very suspicious. There are brokers and backyard breeders who are now involved with Bernese who would be delighted to "guide" you and tell you whatever you want to hear, no questions asked. I truly look forward to hearing about you, perhaps via "Dogs In Canada," to which you will want to subscribe (one of many excellent publications), when you begin to make your positive mark on the breed, as a whole. Lisa Allen _ MSN 8 helps eliminate e-mail viruses. Get 2 months FREE*. http://join.msn.com/?page=features/virus
Wanting to be a breeder
Lisa, You bring up some great points especially having proper accomodations for a visiting girl. I'd sure hate to have some accidents -- of course I'm not a breeder and never expect to become one even though I've been in the breed since 1986. While I can appreciate the efforts of others being willing to have their girls or boys bred I don't think I could. I'd be a total basket case I'm sure when whelping time came around and if I ever had a boy worthy enough to use as a stud I'd be concerned about the pups he would produce and how they fared throughout their lives. I'm just wondering how many folks keep in contact with their sire of pup? I have kept in touch with mine and developed some friendships due to that contact, I know they loved to hear of accomplishments of their sire's get even when Ace & Rosie passed away I kept those sire owners informed even though it was heartbreaking news. Pat Tackett & Texas gang Tex (2 year BMD) Molly (8 year adopted Sheltie) Diver (13 wk Cocker) Texas
Inquiry (from Canada) about becoming a breeder Part Three
It is no secret that the Bernese Mountain Dog is not the world's healthiest breed. There has been discussion as to whether any lines are free from cancer. In addition, immune systems appear to not be terribly strong. These are just a couple of the problems with which the breed is plagued, even those from good lines. Treating and curing these can cost as much as tens of thousands of dollars. You will want to research pet medical insurance. Well before you breed your Bernergirl, you will want to have established contacts and have in mind caring homes for as many as twelve pups and have drawn up a contract, reviewed by your attorney, to guide your buyers and protect all parties concerned but, especially, the pups, who are to be cherished and whose lives are sacred. If, down the line, three owners, even though you carefully interviewed everyone, are unable, for any reason, to keep their dogs, they will likely return them to you to take into your home. And, have a plan to help the owners of any of your Berner's offspring, even if it is only to provide emotional support, should a dog you bred become ill. Lisa Allen _ MSN 8 helps eliminate e-mail viruses. Get 2 months FREE*. http://join.msn.com/?page=features/virus
Inquiry (from Canada) about becoming breeder Part Two
Years from now, when you have at last obtained that Bernese that is winning in the show ring, performing well in working events, and, too, possesses an admirable temperament, you will want to also ask your mentor(s), and those with decades of experience as breeders to evaluate your dog. Let us suppose that your lovely dog is hypothyroid or you have discovered that a number of his or her relatives have died of histiocytosis; now breeding becomes an ethical decision as well. Too, let us suppose that your bitch is healthy with heart, eyes, thyroid tested, orthopedically sound, no bleeding disorder, soundness in pedigree, and more and successful as a show and working dog; your dog's breeder and many whose opinions you value are encouraging you to breed to a dog who compliments your dog's pedigree well and the stud is located in, say, Louisiana, USA. Are you prepared to travel with her or to ship her to the stud owner? If you ARE the stud owner, then you will have drawn up a contract checked by your lawyer, to protect the dog and the bitch and providing guidance in the management of the pups. Too, you will want to have the facilities to house the visiting bitch comfortably. Lisa Allen _ Add photos to your messages with MSN 8. Get 2 months FREE*. http://join.msn.com/?page=features/featuredemail
Inquiry (from Canada) about becoming breeder Part One
After twenty years of involvement in the breed, I have formed opinions regarding what I feel should be "required" to become a conscientious breeder of Bernese. It is my hope that, especially, our fine breeders will contribute to this thread. Since just about anyone can become a dog breeder, I shall assume the inquirer wishes to, as a fancier, evolve in the direction of becoming a conscientious one. Unless you are well known in the Berner community or, perhaps, a devoted "dog person," deeply involved in raising, breeding and showing another breed, a Berner breeder of good reputation might not trust you, initially, with a potential show puppy. Spend your initial years in the breed reading, studying pedigrees, attending local all breed shows and Bernese club related events. Too, with becoming a breeder in mind and to "get the total picture," you will want to attend shows, meetings, seminars and almost all National Specialties in the USA and Canada, at the very least. Also, plan to join both clubs. And, include Europe in your travels, particularly Switzerland. Only one of my four Berners, since 1983, would have been a "candidate" for breeding and Daphane's breeder, God bless her, decided that it would be best for me if Daphane did not become a Berner Mom. You see, a bitch's health can suffer in the process and Eileen did not think that I could bear it if anything happened to Daphane. Lisa Allen _ Add photos to your messages with MSN 8. Get 2 months FREE*. http://join.msn.com/?page=features/featuredemail
RE: Ticks and other nasties was Your Breeder - Your Friend
Hi Michaela, I think I may have just been lucky but I recall the time at the US Nationals at Rhode Island where it seemed a lot of people were picking ticks off their dogs. I had bathed my dogs prior to travelling with Kennel Flea and Louse Shampoo and while I always rinse thoroughly some residual effect may have been at play because my friend's nimble fingers (she's a seasoned tick hunter) never found one:-) I have since changed shampoos because it has been some years since my kitties went to heaven and they were my greatest flea hosts. I now use Miracle Coat that has tea tree oil in it and I have used body wash with tea tree oil for myself in blackfly season and have found less trouble with these nasty biting bugs so figured it was acting as a repellent in the dog shampoo too. Worth a try if you have it in England:-) Rose T.
Re: Ticks and other nasties was Your Breeder - Your Friend
Hi Cecilia Well, AT LAST another Berner owner who had the same results with Frontline than me. My vet and vet techs were initially adamant that I must be applying the product incorrectly. I had them watch me applying it, I watched them applying it. The result was always the same - the dogs still got ticks. I don't know whether the local ticks have by now become resistant to "Finipronil" ( the active ingredient) or whether the ticks have mutated or whether Frontline simply doesn't do what it promises to do. And that is to kill ticks within 48 hours of attaching. It doesn't. I have contacted the manufacturer several times in regards to this issue. Upon phoning them I was haughtily told that they only deal with vets and not the general public ( Ha! They ought to try that approach in the US. Their customers would eat them alive and rightly so). I wrote to them. No reply. I had my vet ring them up in my presence. They still refused to acknowledge that their product wasn't working. They did, however, and I kid you not, offer to "fumigate" the dog for me by spraying them with huge doses of Frontline Spray. I can't repeat my answer to their generous offer, but if they carried out my instructions verbatim, the person my vet spoke to went home a happy, satisfied man! Michaela, Harvey & Rupert Devon/UK - Original Message - From: Cecilia Ståhl <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> To: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> Cc: Bernese Mountain Dog Mailing List <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> Sent: Monday, March 17, 2003 5:16 PM Subject: Re: Ticks and other nasties was Your Breeder - Your Friend Here in Sweden we have Frontline, which can be purchased over the counter at the pharmacists and Ex-Spot, which is only dispensed with a vet prescription. Although I was very pleased with the results of Ex-Spot, I decided to try the Frontline last summer on Griffin. It was absolutely without effect, so much so that Griffin ended up with Erhlichia by the end of the season. This year I will be applying Ex-Spot, needless to say. Cecilia Ståhl Stockholm Sweden
re: Website needs club/breeder presence.
Whoops! After clicking here: http://www.puppynet.com/cgi-bin/desiretobuypreview.pl Click on "Return to Puppynet Ad info. page." Then select Bernese Mountain Dog from the drop down list and hit "review" to see the "Buyers list" and comments. Sorry, > Bernerly, > > Mary > > Jeff & Mary Chapdelaine > SnoBear Berners > N. California, USA > http://snobear.freeyellow.com >
Website needs club/breeder presence.
Hi, I found this site (Puppynet) while browsing the net. It definitely needs the presence of club contacts, and/or ethical breeders for education/referral purposes One of the PPO's states: present Berner owner who purchased their first BMD from a well known breeder who suffered a stroke and is not breeding anymore. They now are searching for a 2nd BMD here. I am considering placing an ad here to educate/refer to regional clubs. take a look: http://www.puppynet.com/cgi-bin/desiretobuypreview.pl Bernerly, Mary Jeff & Mary Chapdelaine SnoBear Berners N. California, USA http://snobear.freeyellow.com
Ang: Re: Ticks and other nasties was Your Breeder - Your Friend
Hi, Yes we have both Frontline and Exspot in Sweden but I think both means to much poison. There are also other methods with garlic and showers with tyme and lemon. Are there other methods without these poisoning ways against ticks? Margareta Strand and Vincent Stockholm
Re: Ticks and other nasties was Your Breeder - Your Friend
Here in Sweden we have Frontline, which can be purchased over the counter at the pharmacists and Ex-Spot, which is only dispensed with a vet prescription. Although I was very pleased with the results of Ex-Spot, I decided to try the Frontline last summer on Griffin. It was absolutely without effect, so much so that Griffin ended up with Erhlichia by the end of the season. This year I will be applying Ex-Spot, needless to say. Cecilia Ståhl Stockholm Sweden
Re: Ticks and other nasties was Your Breeder - Your Friend
Marion I'm the tick queen of the Western world. Sadly. Because of where we live - Moorland, bracken, sheep - my dogs are veritable tick magnets. Plus, this part of England never really gets cold enough to kill off ticks, thus I begrudgingly pull off ticks all year round. I tried a variety of natural things, neither of them were effective. I found Frontline useless, never mind how carefully and diligently I applied it. My dogs still got ticks and far from killing them off, they appeared to be thriving on them. Whilst I second Deb Tripp's recommendation in regards to the Whole Dog Journal - it truly IS a great publication - I found their article about natural tick management less than useful. If I remember correctly, the chief advice was to keep your dog away from tick prone areas and to check the coat thoroughly for ticks after each walk. One CAN see the crawling ticks before they attach but they are really tiny and with a long haired dog they are b*s to find. Summa summaris, the article didn't really offer an effective alternative for tick control, either. On our last vacation to Switzerland the Swiss vet highly recommended a product called " Ex-Spot" for ticks. He said he hardly uses Frontline anymore since it really doesn't work. "Ex-Spot" is one of those chemical concoctions, too, but you have to weigh up the lesser of two evils. From what I gather, most European vets use this product and have given up on Frontline. I brought some "Ex-Spot" home with me so if you want any further info, please let me know. Also, one of the European members might know this product better than me ( Bernd? Tim? ) and perhaps could comment on it. Either way, it certainly works. Regards Michaela, Harvey & Rupert Devon/UK
Re: Ticks and other nasties was Your Breeder - Your Friend
Hi Marion: I'm from Canada :-)...not the US. I'm really lucky that we don't have a lot of nasty bugs in our country and I think it may be largely due to the cold, cold winters - helps keep those things under control. So, because I don't have a very big problem where I live, I don't have to use any type of flea/tick control. We do get the occasional tick, but I simply pull them off, and they are not the ones that carry any disease (fortunately). As for fleas - again, we simply don't have the problem. I may find an occasional flea that the cat has brought home. I sometimes treat the cats with a topical flea treatment if they have more than a few fleas - but it's rare. There is this great magazine called the Whole Dog Journal. It's subscription run instead of advertising run and they do exposes on flea/tick controls, dog foods, etc without having to cater to advertisers dollars - therefore, they can expose lots of nasty things without fear of advertisers taking away their accounts. You can subscribe online at www.whole-dog-journal.com and once subscribed you can read the back issues. They have a great article on flea/ticks and alternative methods. Regards, Deb -- Hunka Hunka Berner Love - Kimberlite Reg'd. Debbie Tripp - Saskatchewan Canada - Berners since 1986 http://www.kimberlitebernese.com
Ticks and other nasties was Your Breeder - Your Friend
Dear Deb Just to pick up on something you say about not giving toxic chemicals. This is the route I go as well but last weekend one of my girls, Emily, was obviously not well and when I checked her I found a large "wound" in her side. I suspected a bont tick (don't know whether you would recognise that name in the US) which is a tick that gets under the skin and then necrophies (right word?) the tissue leaving a large gaping wound. The vet has treated this with antibiotics and a liquid to pour onto the wound. My question is, what do you give the dogs to prevent ticks? We live in a country area and in many years of having dogs as companions I have only ever seen this kind of tick bite once before when we lived in a different place. The vet said that a bont tick carries Ehrlichia. In the meantime Emily now sports a "natural" tick collar. Any advice is welcome. Marion Marion Brown Teversal Bernese Mountain Dogs South Africa Dogs Never Lie About Love (Jeffrey Masson)
Your Breeder - Your Friend
I've briefly skimmed the posts in regards to what is expected of a breeder and rudeness, etc. and in the Seinefeld tradition...yadda, yadda, yadda Right now, I am in the throes of interviewing prospective puppy owners. A daunting task. I want the BEST homes for my beloved fur-kids. I put my life and soul into these puppies and I do expect that my puppy buyers will also do the same. I have certainly come across prospective buyers that are ideal homes save for some little niggling difference in opinion. It is no secret that I want raw fed homes for my puppies - prospective buyers come to me because I raise my puppies on a raw diet with minimal vaccination and exposure to toxic chemicals such as flea and tick control. Therefore, when a prospective buyer says to me things like - I do not believe in raw or minimal vaccinations...then right away we have a conflict. I do tell these people that they should seek out breeders who are more in line with their way of thinking. Please keep in mind here - I am not suggesting for one minute that my way of raising puppies is superior to the next - it is simply a different way. What I am saying is that one should seek out a breeder that is closely aligned to one's way of thinking. That to me, is the importance of the screening process - not only for the breeder, but for the buyer too. Your breeder should be your friend. This is the one person who will be genuinely pleased with all your puppies accomplishments. Seek out the breeder who shares your views and one you can get along with. And above all remember...we breeders are not mind readers. If you are having a problem with your puppy - please tell us. don't be coy. Remember you are not the only person we are dealing with. While you may only be dealing with ONE person, we are dealing with many. Say what you want...tell us... be specific. If you are having a problem with something say...something like...my puppy is limping, my vet says it's X, I expect this from you. That helps alot! Don't just say something like...my puppy is limpingand nothing more. I'm not saying you will get you want, but at least we will know what you want, which is a lot more specific than wondering what you want (from us the breeders). Deb -- Hunka Hunka Berner Love - Kimberlite Reg'd. Debbie Tripp - Saskatchewan Canada - Berners since 1986 http://www.kimberlitebernese.com
Breeder/PPO
When looking for a pup, Deanna and I originally looked at Saints, and met with two breeders, then looked at Leonbergers, again meeting two breeders. While all four people were very nice, only one Saint breeder and one Leo breeder actually let us interact with the dogs. The other two let us look from behind a fence. I guess they figured we were unknown quantities, and might not mingle well. Regardless, it was a little off-putting, as Deanna and I agreed that it would make sense for a breeder to let a PPO interact with the dogs to see how they did. When we looked at Berners, we talked on the phone with several breeders, including one who seemed very hesitant to sell a pup to a "first-time" owner (how exactly do you become a 2nd time owner if you can't be a 1st time owner he never explained). The one breeder we did visit not only let us interact with her adult dogs, but also let us sit with her 6 week old litter. We were hooked. While we would have loved to take one home right then, we knew we were not ready, our breeder knew we weren't ready, and we waited another full year before we finally brought home Vandal (very much worth the wait). Having been the PPO, I can say that I greatly appreciated the time given and the trust shown to us, especially as we were new to dog ownership. When sitting in the kitchen with the dogs, we were gently coached in proper human-dog etiquette and corrected when needed, but never made to feel unworthy. I think a breeder has every right to ensure that a PPO is ready and able to provide for a puppy. Equally, a PPO has every right to expect time, courtesy and the benefit of the doubt from a breeder, at least in initial discussions. As more conversations and (hopefully) visits take place, each party will get a clear sense of whether there is a compatibility that will result in a puppy being placed with that PPO. Sadly, based on this thread, there are rude PPOs and breeders. Then again, there are rude lawyers and clients, teachers and students, doctors and patients, contractors and home owners etc., etc. That's my two cents. Now stop reading email and go hug your dog. Mike, Deanna and Vandal
My Breeder
Hi All! I wanted to comment on the behavior post! I could not agree more about the good and bad, regarding breeders and owners! Reciently I attending two local shows and I met quite a variety of handlers and breeders! There were two berner breeders I met in Monticello, and they had no desire or intrest to speak with me! On the other hand, I also met some extremely nice, plesant, breeders that were very interested to answer my questions! I don't quite understand the snobish attitude of some people, I guess it's just human nature! Thank goodnes I have found a breeder that I have determined to be the right one for me! I met her and her berners and she was very impressive! I am convinced that she is totally dedicated to the breed! Now the hard part waiting for a littertic tic tic tic time seems to drag! Her name..lets just say "M"! Although, I continue to research the breed and talk with breeders just to keep my mind off the fact that I am still waiting to be owned by a Berner! Berner-In-Waiting :-) Kenny
breeder / PPO
I remember my first encounter with breeders and it was NOT pleasant and many of my personal meeting haven't been that great either. However, I am trying (though don't always succeed) in believing that not everyone is going to be Mr. or Mrs. Marty or Mary Sunshine. I've got a couple of feelers out now for a Berner or Newfie rescue and am steeling myself for the tons of questions I undoubtedly will receive, even though I have a happy, healthy Berner already. I will TRY not to get upset and remember that everything DOES eventually happen for a reason! I was put off so much by breeders that I had to go to an "ad" for mine - shudder to think, eh? But my Caesar is a true Berner, with all the wonderful, loving, goofy qualities and looks of any other "respected" breeder...he's AWESOME and does the breed proud each time he meets someone and of course, every day. Good luck - be patient! Kim and Caesar
Re: Was: Had Enough -- Now: How to be a Breeder
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Re: Had Enough -- Now: How to be a Breeder
- Original Message - From: "Burlile\MemoriesBMDs" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> > Thank you, Rahda, for your comments. My original post was asking for actual > conversations, not the "why do breeders ask too many questions." > Original post: > Would someone, anyone, everyone, put into the acutal words ... yeah, like > quotes ... what it is breeders are saying, asking, and/ or implying that are > "putoffs," insults, seeming snobby or just plain nosey? I'd like to hear > what's wrong ... in real words with these conversations. Uhm . . . well, I had one person who interrupted me constantly with sharply toned questions--it was not so much the questions themselves, which I was happy to answer, but being interrupted in mid-word with a snappy, "well, who will be home with the puppy?" when I start answering a question about my spouse and my's working lives. I could have gone on to say that we had a puppy walker lined up, and I worked odd hours so there were few days the pup would even need a walker. I'm pretty low-maintaince. I did not meet and talk with many breeders who put me off with nasty attitudes, honestly, and I probably talked to over a dozen Berner breeders. I do have one person who probably was quite angry with me during puppy shopping time. I was on a list for her pups, she called to tell me that she had them on the ground. I asked about the males vs females, all excited (I had no sex preference, as I was planning on having a 2 dog house and would adjust dog 2 according to dog one). I wanted to know could I visit when the pups were old enough, was it a male or female she had for me, etc. The breeder said, "well, I don't know that I actually have a puppy for you in this litter", which I took to mean I was sort of on the high end of the 'if someone backs out list.' I was really disappointed and continued to search for a Berner pup, as I was not going to wait 7-8 weeks to be told 'no pup for you' when it did not work out. I sent off my deposit for Mic and had made plans to go get him the week she called me and said, "well, we need to talk about this male puppy I have for you." I apologized and told her I thought there was not necessarily a puppy for me, so I had continued searching and had just sent off my deposit on a pup. She was *pretty* darn hot under the collar, but honestly, what did she expect? She didn't ask me to come meet her other dogs while waiting for the litter (I asked if I could come and meet relatives and she said "wait for the pups.") Then when the pups came and I wanted to come and meet her dogs and the pups when they were old enough she said "maybe I have a dog, maybe not." Then she called me the week before she was ready to place and was shocked I wasn't on the edge of my seat. I had never so much as clapped eyes on her health certs, seen photos, etc. That's my only bad experience with a breeder, and I felt pretty lousy about upsetting her so much. I felt lead on and dropped, and no doubt she felt the same. Eileen Morgan March 30th Clinic Information: http://www.enter.net/~edlehman/USEAAR2.html The Mare's Nest http://www.enter.net/~edlehman --- Outgoing mail is certified Virus Free. Checked by AVG anti-virus system (http://www.grisoft.com). Version: 6.0.458 / Virus Database: 257 - Release Date: 2/24/2003
Was: Had Enough -- Now: How to be a Breeder
Thank you, Rahda, for your comments. My original post was asking for actual conversations, not the "why do breeders ask too many questions." Original post: Would someone, anyone, everyone, put into the acutal words ... yeah, like quotes ... what it is breeders are saying, asking, and/ or implying that are "putoffs," insults, seeming snobby or just plain nosey? I'd like to hear what's wrong ... in real words with these conversations. Rahda wrote: >But let's not be blind to the reality that it is not >just PPO's being oversensitive--there is a problem. *** There certainly was a problem in basic manners and courtesy of the conversations you outlined. Since I am a breeder, other breeders don't have "PPO conversations" with me and are not rude, insulting, snobby or plain nosey (at least not while I'm standing there talking to them! LOLOL!!) I was wondering if it was the questions PPOs were being asked, or the "delivery" of those questions, or something else.. but the comments that you wrote about have nothing to do with a breeder "needing to know" some things about you and were clearly "not nice." Peg wrote: Having been in her shoes before with the snobbish way some breeders can come across *** What did they do/say that caused you to have the impression that breeders were snobby? Was it questions, comments, not returning phone calls, demeanor at doggie events, something else? Kate wrote: I think that before everyone jumps on this lady about being offended by the breeder she was talking to we might want to give her the benefit of the doubt. Not all breeder are very friendly, and it is quite possible that the breeder was rude to her. I think that some positive support about what she can do to make her next experience more informative might be helpful for her versus the pummeling her for daring to speak up and ask No pummeling here, but *exactly* what is it that's offending? Questions? Comments? Conversation? Specific words? Actions? Reactions? I'd still like to hear what's wrong ... in real words ... with these conversations that are giving folks these voiced impressions. Tailwags, Cathy Burlile Memories BMDs
RE: Had Enough -- Now: How to be a breeder
Hi Kate and all, I think you've made a good point. And, when I thought the same thing yesterday, I posted to her privately. I expressed my concern about how she was being treated and told her about an up-coming litter. She has not responded. Don't quite know what to make of that. terry thompson missoula, montana At 09:12 AM 03/11/03 -0800, you wrote: This is my first post... but I have been reading for a couple months now, and this is only my opinion: I think that before everyone jumps on this lady about being offended by the breeder she was talking to we might want to give her the benefit of the doubt. Not all breeder are very friendly, and it is quite possible that the breeder was rude to her. I think that some positive support about what she can do to make her next experience more informative might be helpful for her versus the pummeling her for daring to speak up and ask about it. Kate Bert & Lady Cedarburg, WI -Original Message- From: Mary Shaver [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Monday, March 10, 2003 10:10 PM To: [EMAIL PROTECTED]; [EMAIL PROTECTED] Subject: Was: Had Enough -- Now: How to be a breeder When I talk to PPO's about getting a berner pup, I always explain that a good breeder will ask LOTS of questions, and not to be put off or offended by that - a good breeder is genuinely concerned about where their pups are going. It always makes them feel better when I tell them that I had three berner breeders turn me down flat as an unsuitable owner! I also volunteer with our local humane society. You wouldn't believe how much verbal abuse we take from potential "adopters" when we ask them to complete our standard questionnaire. There is evidently a segment of the population who feel they have some God-given right to own whatever animal they want, regardless of their suitability, or lack thereof. It is this type of attitude that unfortunately contributes to the problem, whether it be choosing to buy a pup from a pet shop, or taking a "store front give away" pup from another irresponsible pet owner. We see them every day... Mary Shaver and the girls, Laurel and Bailey Fayetteville, GA This message may contain confidential, proprietary or legally privileged information. It is intended only to be read by the individual or entity named above or its designee. If the reader of this message is not the intended recipient, you are on notice that you must not, directly or indirectly, use, disclose, distribute, print, or copy any part of this message. No confidentiality or privilege is waived or lost by any mistransmission. If you have received this message in error, please immediately notify the sender and/or DoveBid, Inc. by telephone at (650) 571-7400 or email at [EMAIL PROTECTED] and delete or destroy any copy of this message.
RE: Had Enough -- Now: How to be a breeder
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Re Being A Breeder Topic
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Re: How to be a breeder
I have been an avid reader of the Berner-L ever since we brought home our Berner eight months ago. I've used it as a resource to learn new things about the breed and while I have not always agreed with the attitude or opinion of people on the list, I have respected their points of view and left well enough alone. Until I read this: You may love your Bernese Mountain Dog, you may cherish your time with him and he may be an important part of your family - just like our Stewart - but he is still a DOG. When you start to lose site of that, you have lost site of reality. Our Berner and golden retriever are the most precious things we own. We often get accused of treating them like children. Because my husband and I both work from our home, our dogs probably get more attention and affection than some children. But the fact remains that they are dogs. And dogs, cats, cows, chickens, pigs, horses, etc., are NOT PEOPLE. You can not assign them human characteristics and still expect to be taken seriously. Beth Michigan
Was: Had Enough -- Now: How to be a breeder
As a pet owner myself and being very new to berners I think that this discussion is a little one sided. I had absolutely no problem answering basically any questions a breeder would ask me. I know that, as I said in my post, I needed to prove myself to them and I felt that there are perfectly good, in fact necessary reasons to do this. BUT that does not mean that when I ask questions I expect to be treated as a criminal and nor do I expect to treated as if I purposely ill-intentioned. And it is the case that breeders do this. Now, to preface the rest of this I want to say that on the whole I had a positive experience of research the breed. I met a lot of people who knew a lot and were very helpful and kind. But there were a few experiences that if they had been my only ones (for example if I hadn't grown up with dogs/dog people all my life) might have turned me off for good. For instance, when I asked one breeder at a club event (not a show mind you, more like a gathering) if I could talk to her about her kennel she informed me that breeding was very complicated and I shouldn't expect to understand it from a short conversation (as if I thought I could) and then reamed me out about trying to breed dogs without proper knowledge (as if I would) without ever once pausing to let me interject. In another instance, a breeder was asking me about my lifestyle and I was explaining that I was a graduate student. And he was naturally concerned with my financial ability so I was explaining that I do have some other non-income money sources. He then proceeded to call me a liar--and I don't me insinuate it--and then yelled at me about trying to get a dog without having appropriate means to support it. Now there were also less extreme cases (especially when I was very new to researching the breed) when people would lecture at me, not explain to me, why getting a bernese was so difficult and required a very special type of owner, one that I clearly could never be. Perhaps all of these seem reasonable to people on the list. The reason I am providing these specific examples is that they are not out of the ordinary. From even speaking to new people from this list as well as people I have met at other berner events I have found many similar stories. And the truth is, just because you are a breeder and have the right to ask questions of potential owners does not mean that you have the right to do so at the expense of basic courtesy. I think that what many pet owners object to is being treated as if no matter what we do, we are inferior beings and we are trying to steal some berners. I also think that when people don't really know about puppymills (as I didn't) except that they are supposed to be bad, and then have these experiences with responsible breeders--they start to look for less confrontational ways to find a pup. That's when newpaper ads, pet stores and the like can really suck them in. I think that if you want a berner, it can feel like a desperate need and feeling totally rejected by the bernese community only makes you want to go somewhere else to get a dog. If we want to stop that we need to both let PPO's know what is really going on at petshops AND start treating them like they care. Because I think, if every person who researched the breed met someone who was kind and trying hard to understand what they needed from a dog as well as what the could provide to a dog then we could do a lot in both placing pets and preventing puppymill business. But let's not be blind to the reality that it is not just PPO's being oversensitive--there is a problem. Flame me if you must. Radha and Smokey (Princeton, NJ) __ Do you Yahoo!? Yahoo! Web Hosting - establish your business online http://webhosting.yahoo.com
Was: Had Enough -- Now: How to be a breeder
When I talk to PPO's about getting a berner pup, I always explain that a good breeder will ask LOTS of questions, and not to be put off or offended by that - a good breeder is genuinely concerned about where their pups are going. It always makes them feel better when I tell them that I had three berner breeders turn me down flat as an unsuitable owner! I also volunteer with our local humane society. You wouldn't believe how much verbal abuse we take from potential "adopters" when we ask them to complete our standard questionnaire. There is evidently a segment of the population who feel they have some God-given right to own whatever animal they want, regardless of their suitability, or lack thereof. It is this type of attitude that unfortunately contributes to the problem, whether it be choosing to buy a pup from a pet shop, or taking a "store front give away" pup from another irresponsible pet owner. We see them every day... Mary Shaver and the girls, Laurel and Bailey Fayetteville, GA
Re: Had Enough -- Now: How to be a breeder
A friend of mine that shows Berners but is not a Berner owner recently went to some shows in the northern plains states. She is often approached by people looking for a Berner pup and has learned all the "right things" to tell these folks regarding care and health. At this one particular show she said she spent time with a woman who was looking for a puppy. She directed this woman towards the several breeders that were at the show after telling her a little about the breed. My friend overheard some of the conversation with the woman and Berner breeders. My friend felt they were very aggresive in their questioning of the woman. She felt they were defensive and this defensivness comes across as a bit hostile. They wanted to know what she wanted a dog for and what was she going to do with it and was she planning to show it, etc. My friend thought the woman seemed sincere and nice and later that day the woman came back and told my friend that she was the only one that didn't try to run her off. Just some input from a non-Berner dog person Susan Ablon Gweebarra BMD Balch Springs, Tx http://www.pageweb.com/gwebara
Re: Had Enough -- Now: How to be a breeder
I just felt like throwing in my two cents. The first thing I think when someone posts to the list and says how a breeder has been "mean" to them because they were asked some questions from the breeder is to stop whining and think. If a breeder is worth anything they will ask questions. I personally wouldn't trust one that didn't. I think some of these people just assume they are the perfect prospect to have a Berner. Then they get asked a some questions and they assume they are being belittled or just don't like being scrutinized. It's ridiculous. If I was a breeder (and have no plans of being one) and asked someone questions and the people resented it I'd run away, and fast, from them. Having a lot of money, a big house, a high position etc. does not make automatically make a good owner. I will never forget a conversation I had with a lady that did Westie rescue in Atlanta. She said the worst case of neglect she had was someone who lived a couple doors down from the governor's mansion. This is a very beautiful, old and moneyed area and the homes are on several acres. The people are at the top of society in this area, but none of that mattered to a neglected little Westie. I thought that was so sad. I think some of these people get caught up in the Berner's beauty without much regard to anything else. They want a lawn ornament to show off. I always hope some of these people don't get a Berner, but the sad part is if these people ended up getting a Berner chances are it will be from a breeder that didn't care enough to ask any questions, because they really didn't care, they got their check. If these people can be educated then that's great. But unfortunately, I just think some of these people think they are entitled to a Berner. There are snobby Berner breeders that think no one is good enough and there are snobby potential Berner owners that are insenced that someone would ask them a question. These PPO's need to do there research when it comes whether a Berner is for them and in picking a breeder. I think the brunt of the responsibility is on the breeders. To me it's so simple, their decisions as to who gets a puppy is the future of the breed. If they can be careful who they sold puppies to (asking PPO's lots of questions) it can only be a good thing for the breed. I have no sympathy for these PPO's that think their privacy has been violated if they are asked a question by a breeder. Flame me if you want, I won't care, but go ahead if you want. And yes I am signing my name. Kathy Schmitz, Woodstock, Georgia Brighteye Meine Liebe "Greta" NAP, NJP, CGC "Mattie" Matterhorn Princess CD, NA, CGC & Gunner (in loving memory and together again at the bridge)
Re: Had Enough -- Now: How to be a breeder
Hi Cathy, I think people are actually put off by the fact that we selectively screen our puppy buyers and that we request they sign and enter into a contract with us. They are also put off by the fact that they are entering into a partnership for the life of the dog, with us the breeder. Lots of times these partnerships turn into friendships that last a lifetime!! There are so many people out there that just want to buy a dog, go get and go home and do whatever they please with it. They treat the animal more like purchased merchandise than a human living being and I think that the people we're turning away aren't fit to own a dog, probably 90% of these types of people at least. Kim Morrow Susa Reg'd Saskatoon, SK http://www.bernesedogs.com > I could be very good at "stroking people" too. Is that what you want to > hear from > a breeder?
Was: Had Enough -- Now: How to be a breeder
> Pet shops don't do that -- they stroke people looking at their wares. They thank us for repelling otherwise good homes directly into their lair > > We may have to look at what *we're* doing that causes this behaviour. Would someone, anyone, everyone, put into the acutal words ... yeah, like quotes ... what it is breeders are saying, asking, and/ or implying that are "put offs," insults, seeming snobby or just plain nosey? I'd like to hear what's wrong ... in real words with these conversations. Please leave the "guilty" party's name out of the reply. I could be very good at "stroking people" too. Is that what you want to hear from a breeder? And I don't think I can be convinced that a person that has reached the age of majority ... let's say 18 years of age is "repelled to," or "insulted to," or "has to" buy a Bernese Mountain Dog from a puppy mill, pet store, etc. That is a conscious decision to do so by that adult and that conscious decision should not be "pawned off" to others because of a self-validated reason: "I am going to **HAVE TO** buy a Berner puppy from a puppy mill because __ (fill in the blank.)" More correctly stated would be, "I am choosing to buy a Berner puppy from a puppy mill because _(fill in the blank)." I am choosing to sign-off now ... Tailwags, Cathy Burlile Memories BMDs
RE: Breeder Referral
Hi Brigitte, Oftentimes a breeder might have a six month old or older Berner for sale but you need to ask yourself "why?" Assuming they kept the puppy in the first place because of show/breeding potential why are they now selling it into a pet home. Maybe something simple like the bite is undershot or not all the molars came in, this would make a fine pet but if there is a problem with dysplasia this would need to be fully discussed and determined whether the dog may be affected sooner rather than later. Maybe the puppy just isn't meeting its potential for the breeder but oftentimes six months is a difficult age to fully assess a puppy unless the breeder has several generations of dogs to draw experience on. Maybe the breeder kept two littermates with the intention of only keeping one, there could be a host of reasons why this puppy is available just ask why and if joint health (hear "I don't like his movement") ask to have your vet see the xrays before you take the puppy. If you are just hoping to avoid the house training issue in taking on a six month old be prepared that the youngster may not have had sufficient socialisation or been to puppy kindergarten and may well regress particularly so if not house raised to begin with. Rose T. -Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: March 5, 2003 3:13 PM To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Subject: Breeder Referral My husband and I are looking to adopt a Berner, 6 months old or over. Can you guys refer me to a reputable breeder? Thanks in advance. Brigitte
Breeder Referral
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RE: Breeder Referral
Dear Brigitte, Welcome to the Berner-L! I'm sure there will be a lot of people who can help point you in the right direction! You didn't happen to mention what part of the world you're in, but if you are anywhere near Maryland in the USA this weekend, there is an enormous regional Specialty, there are about 150 Berners entered. It's a great place to go for information, to meet breeders, and to talk to owners. For information, see www.pvbmdc.org If you're in a different part of the United States, then see www.bmdca.org for clubs near you, and see what sort of events they're having. Many of them have breeder or puppy referral people, that's another great place to start. www.bmdca.org also has a list of clubs in other countries, so that's still a great place to start. We'll be happy to try to answer any of your questions, and I hope you get to pet a lot of Berners in your search! Do you have an idea of what it is you hope to do with your Berner? Obedience, agility, conformation, breeding, watching TV? Pat Long, (& Luther) Berwyn PA
Breeder Referral
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FW: Looking for Breeder in Illinois
-Original Message- From: Terri Taylor-Mikes [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Monday, March 03, 2003 7:58 AM To: Berner List (E-mail) Subject: Looking for Breeder in Illinois I am looking for a breeder in Illinois. My husband is turning 40 this May and he really wants another Berner (we both do) and I would like to get him a male Berner puppy for this 40th. Anyone out there a breeder in Illinois or know of one? Thanks Terri P.S. Someone on this list forwarded my last e-mail "Looking for Trainer in Aurora, IL" to a trainer in Joliet named Joyce. Well I wanted to thanks this individual for doing that - Joyce has called me and she gave me some great ideas on how to re-train Dharma and I am doing them - Dharma is resisting, but I will win. Also, I was wondering if that person could e-mail me and give me Joyce's address - if what she told me to do works (and I am pretty sure it will), I really want to send her something to show my gratitude. Thank You.
slightly OT (bullmastiff) breeder concerns
Hi, Well along the lines of "Where did you get your dog" and breeder concerns over potential puppy buyer.go to the link below and you can read about the story of a bullmastiff that the breeder thought was placed in a wonderfull home. Turns out otherwise. http://www.bulhaven.com/Private%20Tygger.htm You can understand why breeders ask many questions of PP buyers and why they should be doing follow ups in the years after! Joan and Sophia Ontario
Breeder. In such cases, pet owners may have to
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why be a breeder?
OK, so I got a very nice email the other day from my sweet boy's breeder. And something she said started me thinking... I was wondering why people had decided to become a breeder. What started you on that road? Anyone whanna share their story? Curious Berner lover, Kendra, Jackson (a curious Berner), and Sallie (a very curious Berner)-- they keep getting curiouser and curiouser!!!
re: looking for breeder
when you are looking for a breeder in any particular region, the best way still, as far as i know, is to talk to the regional club. you can find contact information for regional clubs at bmdca.org. i know that when i see someone asking about the pacific northwest, i reply to them & let them know how to get our info packet & breeder's list. but, i'm sure that i miss one every now & then. lisa baldwin (dickens, bark & zel) seattle, wa [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Breeder Referrals for SF Bay Area
Hello, I am interested in having a Berner puppy in my life. I live in the San Francisco Bay Area and need referrals for very reputable breeders in the area. I'm not interested in showing my dog, just adoring it. Thank you very much, Carol LaSalle [EMAIL PROTECTED]MSN 8 helps ELIMINATE E-MAIL VIRUSES. Get 2 months FREE*.
Re: GREAT DANE BREEDER
Hi Laura, Here is the url for the National Great Dane Club. http://www.gdca.org/ If you choose the top link "Great Dane", it will bring up selections, choose "Breeding", then "Breeder's list". There are 7 breeders listed in Michigan. There is also a lot of information links on the site which can help educate your friend on the breed and it's specifics to help your friend decide if the breed is really the one she wants. (If she is new to the breed.) Encourage her to check them out. Best wishes, Mary Jeff & Mary Chapdelaine SnoBear Berners [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://snobear.freeyellow.com
GREAT DANE BREEDER
Hi there. I am Berner gal myself but have a friend who is looking for a responsible breeder of the Great Dane. I live in Michigan and I believe he would be willing to drive and/or ship a puppy. I don't have any dane contacts. Please email me privately at: [EMAIL PROTECTED] if you can help. Thank you. Laura Caprara
Breeder?
I'm looking for a good BMD breeder. I live in northern Kentucky, just south of Cincinnati. Any suggestions? Thanks! Mark Fancher
Looking for a breeder!
Does anyone know reputable breeders in Washington State. I'm looking to purchase my first Bernese. Any help would be great! Thanks
Berner/Maine Coon breeder
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Berners and Newfs/ was Looking for Breeder
- Original Message - From: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> > I am looking for a breeder. I used to live in Colorado and had talked to > many people with BMD's. After researching quite a bit, I feel that this is > the companion I am looking for. I used to have a Newf, she was a great > companion. Although others didn't appreciate her slobber, her good traits > more than made up for that inconvenience with me. In talking with a couple > of owners they reccomended I research out the BMD. As owner of both a Newf and a Berner, let me gently point out that while they are both loving and clingy, they are VERY different dogs indeed when it comes to the point of it: living with them. If you really, really enjoyed the Newf personality and want the same basic thing in a smaller package, you probably won't get that with the average Berner. In my experience, these are trends, and individual dogs will fall closer and further from these averages: Berners are more agile and energetic than even a high energy Newf like my Nessie, so they require a lot of exercise. There is no living with my Mic unless he gets a serious activity period on a regular basis. I find that as puppies, Berners are more likely to be sharks and eat your hands, arms, and be a little more chew destructive than the average Newf puppy. They are more inclined to temperament problems such as territory aggression and fear aggression; they were farm guardians in the early years and this sharper personality has remained a consistent subset of Berner temperament. Shy personalities are also not uncommon. Do a search on the Berner archives for some recent shyness and temperament issues and you'll see what I mean when you see how many people talked about their shy dogs and what they were trying to do to solve the problems. I believe while both suffer from health problems, Berners have a slight edge in terms of more health issues. They require similar amounts of grooming, they have a similar love of their families, and they are both funny, engaging, and endearing companions. I am not trying to dissuade you from a Berner! They are excellent companions for a variety of families. However, they are really not particularly Newf-like in my opinion. Eileen Morgan The Mare's Nest http://www.enter.net/~edlehman --- Outgoing mail is certified Virus Free. Checked by AVG anti-virus system (http://www.grisoft.com). Version: 6.0.419 / Virus Database: 235 - Release Date: 11/13/2002
Looking for Breeder
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Rescue-Breeder
O.K. All enough already. #1... The owner of the NJ berner that was up for rescue should be commended for realizing that she was getting more than she bargained for, and she DID call rescue for help. Positive factor #1. #2... Rescue was very quick to respond to the woman's needs with both, someone to take the dog and someone to offer assistance and a listening ear. Positive factor #2. #3... The owner did not just take the easy way out and give up the dog. She decided to listen to the assistance that was offered her and is trying to find a way to make the relationship with the dog what they hoped for all along. This dog was a wanted and much sought after dog! Positive factor #3. #4... The owner has attempted to contact the breeder. At the time this was originally posted to the list she had not yet reached the breeder, but... that does NOT indicate ANYTHING AT ALL about the breeder! Just that she was not available to answer the phone. The owner is to be commended for thinking of the breeder first! Positive factor #4. So.. PLEASE stop commenting on the breeder, one way or another. Seems to me, that if there are concerns regarding anyone involved with Bernese Mtn Dogs, that they should be addressed through the parent club that oversees the welfare of the breed. Most breed club memberships come with a commitment to adhere to a code of ethics. If there is a problem... that is the proper, and most effective, way to address it. As far as the "rescue" goes.. thank heaven for the wonderful people that we have running the rescue program! Not only are they there to physically rescue dogs that are in need of assistance, but they are there to assist and educate owners. They spend countless hours listening and helping! That is, by far the greatest thing that anyone can do for the breed. And from what I have seen in the past few months, this group out here in the Jersey area is exceptional. Remember that not everyone that calls a rescue coordinator is truely in need of having their dog physically removed. Frequently they are exasperated with behaviors and are at a lose as to how to modify them. Sometimes it's just plain and simple education and support to an owner with a "terrible teen." So... please, please, please Hug your local volunteers, commend those who have the courage to reach out and ask for help, and try to avoid looking for blame when in reality there is non to be found. Lets all be proactive, positive, and supportive. There are lots of positive things going on with this particular dog. Who knows what the future will hold, but. it is wonderful to see the process that is allowing for the best interests of the dog, and so many people working together. O.K. I'll shut up and go watch the football games. Barb __ Do you Yahoo!? Yahoo! Web Hosting - Let the expert host your site http://webhosting.yahoo.com
breeder
Hi- Does anybody know a breeder out of MA named Rita Burchhardt? Any info appreciated. Thanks, Hugh
Finding a breeder & Red Flags (was re: BERNER-L digest 4110)
Hi Kim, > I am looking for my first Berner puppy, > If anyone knows of any good Berner breeders in Ohio or > nearby area I would love to talk to them and ask them some questions. The best way to find the right breeder for you is by using the regional club(s) in your area. You'll find links to the regional clubs and contact information (along with a lot of other excellent information) on the national (US) club's website: www.bmdca.org Regional clubs offer breeder referral, but more than that...they provide the opportunity to get to know berner owners & breeders by way of the events they host. These events range from Specialty shows to Fun Days to Holiday Gatherings. Non-members are welcome so don't hesitate to take advantage of the offerings. > All your comments > about HD have been very informative and I will make sure that is a very high > priority to look for. HD is just one aspect of many to consider when breeding or buying. Pat Long has put together a Breeder Checklist which is an excellent tool to help you learn the wide variety of aspects breeders take into account in making their decisions, and to help you determine how closely a particular breeder's priorities align with your own. You'll find the Breeder Checklist on her website: http://www.jersey.net/~mountaindog/berner1 Something relatively new on the radar screen is the fact that as buyers have become better informed and started asking serious questions, commercial breeders and brokers have learned to say the things buyers want to hear. For this reason, it's important to hear accurately what's being said...and what's not being said. It's become imperative to DEMAND copies of all certifications, contracts, and guarantees BEFORE deciding to buy from that breeder. It's not intrusive or insulting...it's the norm. Responsible breeders require this of each other before doing a breeding and will be happy to provide you with documentation to support any statements they make about their line or the breeding pair. Beware of statements like: "Her hips are good" or "I've never had a problem with ..." or "My vet said..." or "These dogs are from European lines, they don't have the kind of problems over there that American breeders do" or "I can't give you copies until you sign the contract" To my ears, these types of general statements send up a *Red Flag*. Contrast them with the kind of discussion you'd typically hear from a responsible breeder: "The sire is OFA good, dam is OFA excellent, elbows for both are OFA normal, eyes for both CERFed "clear" within the last year." (Personally, I'd also want cardiac clearance and vWD evaluation). "If you're interested in the litter, I'll be happy to send you copies of the clearance certificates along with a 4 generation pedigree, then we can discuss each of the dogs in the pedigree along with aunts and uncles. "I'll also enclose a copy of my usual contract so you'll know what I guarantee and what I expect from my puppy buyers." This in addition to discussion of YOUR dog experience, lifestyle, desires in a pup, etc. There's a great deal more to breeding responsibly than doing the proper screening for genetic diseases, but the point is to beware of generalizations. You should be offered specifics and the paperwork to back them up. -Sherri Venditti
european/american breeder
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