Re: [Bf-committers] Transform tool tweaks
it wasn't me who wrote this it was (Jorge Rodriguez), please read well before mailing! Regards Yousef Harfoush ba...@msn.com Date: Fri, 20 Jan 2012 22:48:12 +0100 From: raho...@googlemail.com To: bf-committers@blender.org Subject: Re: [Bf-committers] Transform tool tweaks 2012/1/20 Jorge Rodriguez jo...@lunarworkshop.com On Thu, Jan 19, 2012 at 11:33 AM, Yousef Hurfoush ba...@msn.com wrote: I will be doing this. I do not wish to irritate existing users. That's good news, thank you very much ! ___ Bf-committers mailing list Bf-committers@blender.org http://lists.blender.org/mailman/listinfo/bf-committers ___ Bf-committers mailing list Bf-committers@blender.org http://lists.blender.org/mailman/listinfo/bf-committers
Re: [Bf-committers] Transform tool tweaks
I'm sorry. Can you explain this better? Break it down into steps for me to reproduce it and I'll see if I can fix it. the optimal case for it to work is: -freeze the mouse movement -press g (now it will lock to mouse) -move your mouse as desired -press g to confirm the error can happen if do the above steps, but: -instead of the 1st step, you'll be moving your mouse. it will lock and confirm directly! i think it's easy to fix, but as i said before : the whole patch doesn't add any simplicity to using blender. Regards Yousef Harfoush ba...@msn.com ___ Bf-committers mailing list Bf-committers@blender.org http://lists.blender.org/mailman/listinfo/bf-committers
Re: [Bf-committers] Transform tool tweaks
Unless I'm misunderstanding, that behavior is intentional. The patch adds two features, one being tap to confirm, the other being drag and drop. Now that I think about it, I should make drag and drop an option also. On Sat, Jan 21, 2012 at 8:29 AM, Yousef Hurfoush ba...@msn.com wrote: I'm sorry. Can you explain this better? Break it down into steps for me to reproduce it and I'll see if I can fix it. the optimal case for it to work is: -freeze the mouse movement -press g (now it will lock to mouse) -move your mouse as desired -press g to confirm the error can happen if do the above steps, but: -instead of the 1st step, you'll be moving your mouse. it will lock and confirm directly! i think it's easy to fix, but as i said before : the whole patch doesn't add any simplicity to using blender. Regards Yousef Harfoush ba...@msn.com ___ Bf-committers mailing list Bf-committers@blender.org http://lists.blender.org/mailman/listinfo/bf-committers -- Jorge Vino Rodriguez jo...@lunarworkshop.com twitter: VinoBS 919.757.3066 ___ Bf-committers mailing list Bf-committers@blender.org http://lists.blender.org/mailman/listinfo/bf-committers
Re: [Bf-committers] Transform tool tweaks
2012/1/21 Yousef Hurfoush ba...@msn.com it wasn't me who wrote this it was (Jorge Rodriguez), please read well before mailing! I am sorry Yousef, I missed deleting the header of the quote. ___ Bf-committers mailing list Bf-committers@blender.org http://lists.blender.org/mailman/listinfo/bf-committers
Re: [Bf-committers] Transform tool tweaks - Patch available
Martin, The new patch is in. http://projects.blender.org/tracker/index.php?func=detailaid=29945group_id=9atid=127 I had problems updating the old so I created a new one. Sorry if that causes any problems. Both the tap to confirm and the drag and drop functionality are now optional. They default to off. To turn them on you can go into the user preferences, 3D view, and expand the Grab command, and they should be there. Let me know if you have any trouble or feedback. I love feedback. On Tue, Jan 17, 2012 at 7:43 PM, Jorge Rodriguez jo...@lunarworkshop.comwrote: Thanks Martin I'd appreciate that a lot. I see you're the Transform module owner so it's good to know it's being looked at :) I tried to keep the workflow compatible with the current workflow. It should be entirely compatible with the exception of RR. If you have ideas of how to support both at once I would love to hear. On Tue, Jan 17, 2012 at 7:37 PM, Martin Poirier the...@yahoo.com wrote: Hi Jorge, I'll be looking at this as soon as I have time (probably on Thursday). Some of the changes (confirming with release among others) are stuff that I tried early on while porting transform to the 2.5 operator system and should be doable with the current keymap setup. If you want a workflow that isn't currently possible with the customization that exists, I generally think it's better to make the system flexible enough to support both (which might be what you did, haven't looked at the patch yet) and then discuss what the default keymaps/options should be. I'll get back to you once I've had a good look at your patch. Thanks, Martin From: Jorge Rodriguez jo...@lunarworkshop.com To: bf-blender developers bf-committers@blender.org Sent: Tuesday, January 17, 2012 9:25:07 PM Subject: Re: [Bf-committers] Transform tool tweaks - Patch available The patch is now available here: http://projects.blender.org/tracker/index.php?func=detailaid=29919group_id=9atid=127 I would love it if people could try it out and inform me of any problems or suggestions. I would be happy to update the patch given feedback. Following is a reprint of the patch description: This patch is against svn r43478 Changes: * Pressing the grab/rotate/resize button while the tool is already active will cause the tool to confirm the current transformation. In the case of switching rotation modes, this functionality has been moved to Shift-R instead. * When using a transform tool bound to right click, right clicking will confirm instead of cancel; otherwise it will cancel like before. * Holding a transform button/key will drag the object. If the user holds for longer than 250ms or farther than 10 pixels then the action is treated like a drag and when the key is released the transformation is automatically confirmed. Notes: * This patch removes some duplicate code in the modal handler for transform events. * In order to support this patch some slight changes have been made in the way handler operators are called. Duplicate button/key presses are now filtered by the handler and not sent to the operator, and information about the handler/keymapitem which invoked the operator (if any) have been added to the wmOperator structure. * The previous event state also now includes the prevkeytime - the time that the previous keyboard key was pressed. Justification: This patch attempts to improve the usability of the transformation tools by implementing behavior which most users will expect. If a button is pressed once to activate a tool, than users can expect to be able to press that same button again to deactivate the tool. If the user presses and holds the button then the functionality should remain active for as long an the button is held down and then deactivate when it is released. In order to implement this behavior, the behavior when pressing the rotation button twice had to be changed. Before, the second press toggled the rotation type. This functionality has been moved to Shift-R. I recommend that the default bindings also be changed so that Shift-R activates rotation directly in trackball mode, to reduce the number of key presses required to access that mode. I feel that while the different behavior may cause some friction for some current Blender users, the new features should help users, new users especially, feel more comfortable with Blender. -- Jorge Vino Rodriguez jo...@lunarworkshop.com twitter: VinoBS 919.757.3066 ___ Bf-committers mailing list Bf-committers@blender.org http://lists.blender.org/mailman/listinfo/bf-committers ___ Bf-committers mailing list Bf-committers@blender.org http://lists.blender.org/mailman/listinfo/bf-committers -- Jorge Vino Rodriguez jo...@lunarworkshop.com twitter: VinoBS 919.757.3066 -- Jorge
Re: [Bf-committers] Transform tool tweaks
2012/1/20 Jorge Rodriguez jo...@lunarworkshop.com On Thu, Jan 19, 2012 at 11:33 AM, Yousef Hurfoush ba...@msn.com wrote: I will be doing this. I do not wish to irritate existing users. That's good news, thank you very much ! ___ Bf-committers mailing list Bf-committers@blender.org http://lists.blender.org/mailman/listinfo/bf-committers
Re: [Bf-committers] Transform tool tweaks
When you combine these three things together you get a mode of operation that I feel takes advantage of the Blender Way of doing things, (quickly and efficiently!) but also makes sense to users coming from other tools. not a max or maya or xsi standard way of grabbing or rotating or translating! I'll be submitting patches of my work when I'm a bit happier with them. i patched and tested, clumsy: if you select and move right away it acts like hold and up (it transforms and confirms automatically!) , although i like the idea of holding and release on key up. Then the solution I would suggest is to bind one rotation type to R and the other to perhaps Shift-R. It's the same amount of keypresses either way. I feel like, although the current workflow is changed by this method, the overall workflow becomes faster and more intuitive, so it's worth it. it's the same amount of presses but not the same movements, pressing a button twice is much easier than using two finger and two destant keys you can blindly press RR, and cannot blindly press shift-R. What i would like to have is switch for the navigation behavior. In 3D-View the default keymapping is Shift+MMB to pan and MMB to rotate. I really like it the other way around. +1 for me, most 3d solutions do this. The feature I proposed in the top post of this thread makes pressing any transformation key (G, R, or S) a second time confirm the transformation. I made this change because I feel it is a more expected behavior to new users who uses that, most 3d solution use mouse press to confirm! ___ Bf-committers mailing list Bf-committers@blender.org http://lists.blender.org/mailman/listinfo/bf-committers
Re: [Bf-committers] Transform tool tweaks
As a long time Blender user, I have to say that I a very concerned about your proposed changes. I certainly appreciate that you are trying to improve Blender, but my main priority is that I can use Blender like I always did, since I am very comfortable with how the shortcuts are set up now. Currently we have the choice of different interaction presets for users coming from a different package on the splash screen, so I would like to encourage you to make your changes accessible via this menu, keeping the interaction like it is for all who have grown accustomed to how Blender works over the years. ___ Bf-committers mailing list Bf-committers@blender.org http://lists.blender.org/mailman/listinfo/bf-committers
Re: [Bf-committers] Transform tool tweaks
On Thu, Jan 19, 2012 at 11:33 AM, Yousef Hurfoush ba...@msn.com wrote: i patched and tested, clumsy: if you select and move right away it acts like hold and up (it transforms and confirms automatically!) , although i like the idea of holding and release on key up. I'm sorry. Can you explain this better? Break it down into steps for me to reproduce it and I'll see if I can fix it. On Thu, Jan 19, 2012 at 2:02 PM, Rainer Hohne raho...@googlemail.comwrote: Currently we have the choice of different interaction presets for users coming from a different package on the splash screen, so I would like to encourage you to make your changes accessible via this menu, keeping the interaction like it is for all who have grown accustomed to how Blender works over the years. I will be doing this. I do not wish to irritate existing users. -- Jorge Vino Rodriguez jo...@lunarworkshop.com twitter: VinoBS 919.757.3066 ___ Bf-committers mailing list Bf-committers@blender.org http://lists.blender.org/mailman/listinfo/bf-committers
Re: [Bf-committers] Transform tool tweaks
Am 18.01.2012 01:16, schrieb Jorge Rodriguez: A quick note just so we can all remain on the same page. When I'm talking about rotation in this topic, I'm referring to when the user is rotating an object and the view remains the same. I'm not referring to when the user is rotating the view. This feature does not affect view rotation. On Tue, Jan 17, 2012 at 3:29 PM, Tobias Oelgarte tobias.oelga...@googlemail.com wrote: Why not leave the default rotation at R and make the following possible: R = Start with default rotation Shift + R = Start with trackball Pressing either R or Shift+R again will toggle the mode. The feature I proposed in the top post of this thread makes pressing any transformation key (G, R, or S) a second time confirm the transformation. Please not. I think this is disturbing, since what you do is to move the mouse and to confirm it with a click. This is faster. It bugs me that it destroys the option to add additional options to the tools by just pressing the same button multiple times. That is very quick and intuitive. I would not like to trade it against a press again to confirm. I made this change because I feel it is a more expected behavior to new users - If you press a button to enter a rotation mode then you should be able to press that button again to exit it. Not all users will expect this behavior, but I don't think many users (other than existing Blender users) would expect that pressing the button again should retain the new mode but modify it. The number of former users (again not including existing users trained on the current behavior) is in my opinion much greater than the number of latter users. That is the main difference. You speak about simple interaction for new users. But i speak about fast interaction once learned. Yes this is a compromise to make. Power users want the shortcut mechanisms as quick and powerfull as possible. Nothing is more powerfull then a direct shortcut or to press a button again to switch between different modes. As an experienced (well trained) user i find it very practical to confirm with the mouse, to switch options with the keyboard, and to cancel an action by mouse or ESC/Strg+Z/Strg+Y. To the newbies. Would they really like to confirm an action by pressing the shortcut twice? The most users i know start to press a mouse button to confirm something. That goes for many things. An if they did something wrong, the first thing they do is to press the undo buttons or shortcuts. In short, I expect that many existing Blender users may not like the key rebind, but I think that letting the user press the R button twice to approve the rotation is a more intuitive behavior than pressing it again to toggle. In the end though, my proposal is very similar to yours: R = Start with default rotation Shift + R = Start with trackball R again = Confirm the current rotation Pressing Shift+R again will toggle the mode. So it's the same, but pressing R again confirms instead of toggles, which of course is the whole point of my patch. I'm pretty satisfied with this patch now, I'll be submitting it shortly. I have to say: Personally i don't like this change. Pressing RR was a very convenient way to switch the mode. :( ___ Bf-committers mailing list Bf-committers@blender.org http://lists.blender.org/mailman/listinfo/bf-committers
Re: [Bf-committers] Transform tool tweaks
On Wed, Jan 18, 2012 at 9:48 AM, Tobias Oelgarte tobias.oelga...@googlemail.com wrote: It bugs me that it destroys the option to add additional options to the tools by just pressing the same button multiple times. That is very quick and intuitive. I would not like to trade it against a press again to confirm. After much thinking and listening to feedback I'm going to find a way to update the patch to make this on option. I just learned about how RNA properties work with operators in Blender so it should be straightforward to implement. Then if this patch is used then you can keep the old behavior. I've been having some computer problems today but hopefully I can get it up before tomorrow. That is the main difference. You speak about simple interaction for new users. But i speak about fast interaction once learned. Yes this is a compromise to make. I disagree. I think that simple interaction and fast interaction are not mutually exclusive. In fact, I think my patch manages to keep interaction speeds (and in some cases make things faster) while at the same time making Blender more accessible to new users. I confess though, I am very concerned with new users. It's a primary motivation for me hacking Blender. After all, I am a new user, and one of the reasons I put off adopting Blender for so long is because of frustrations like the one I have addressed with this patch. I believe that Blender could have much more success if it made it easier for new users to adopt. In this sense I think Blender's user interface holds it back. It is my goal to address this, which is to everyone's benefit because more users == more developers, and more developers == more features. -- Jorge Vino Rodriguez jo...@lunarworkshop.com twitter: VinoBS 919.757.3066 ___ Bf-committers mailing list Bf-committers@blender.org http://lists.blender.org/mailman/listinfo/bf-committers
Re: [Bf-committers] Transform tool tweaks
On Tue, Jan 17, 2012 at 2:39 AM, Jorge Rodriguez jo...@lunarworkshop.com wrote: Hello Blender devs! I've been scratching an itch lately and working on a few features that I would like to see in Blender. I made a video so you can see how it works. http://youtu.be/zcEvpjXlIfs Here's the video in brief: * I added a new tool, a *context-sensitive transform tool*, that does a different transform depending on what manipulator is active. So, if the Transform manipulator is active the tool works like Grab, if the scaling manipulator is active it works like Resize, and so on. * I added support for *pressing the same button which activated a tool to confirm*. So, press G once to grab, press it again to confirm. * I added support for *drag and drop handling*. This is seamless with the tools. Hold G to grab, drag the object, let go to drop it again. When you combine these three things together you get a mode of operation that I feel takes advantage of the Blender Way of doing things, (quickly and efficiently!) but also makes sense to users coming from other tools. These changes are also not incompatible with how current Blender users work, so you don't have to do the W-E-R Maya thing like I do to take advantage of the new features. I'll be submitting patches of my work when I'm a bit happier with them. (Right now it needs work still for a few edge cases.) For now I was hoping to get some feedback. What can I do to make the patch submitting process easier? Like I said in the video I'm going to be working on this for a while and I would like the team to consider taking me on as a member. In the meantime my work will be stored on my GitHub fork: https://github.com/BSVino/Blender -- Jorge Vino Rodriguez It looks good but I would need to try it out to be sure. My one question is does RR still work? That is a command that I use a LOT. -- Douglas E Knapp Creative Commons Film Group, Helping people make open source movies with open source software! http://douglas.bespin.org/CommonsFilmGroup/phpBB3/index.php Massage in Gelsenkirchen-Buer: http://douglas.bespin.org/tcm/ztab1.htm Please link to me and trade links with me! Open Source Sci-Fi mmoRPG Game project. http://sf-journey-creations.wikispot.org/Front_Page http://code.google.com/p/perspectiveproject/ ___ Bf-committers mailing list Bf-committers@blender.org http://lists.blender.org/mailman/listinfo/bf-committers
Re: [Bf-committers] Transform tool tweaks
On Tue, Jan 17, 2012 at 11:42 AM, Knapp magick.c...@gmail.com wrote: It looks good but I would need to try it out to be sure. My one question is does RR still work? That is a command that I use a LOT. Sorry not familiar with the lingo, what is RR? Is it changing rotation type to and from trackball? Because yes that still works but I moved it to Shift-R. I'll be submitting a patch today I think. -- Jorge Vino Rodriguez jo...@lunarworkshop.com twitter: VinoBS 919.757.3066 ___ Bf-committers mailing list Bf-committers@blender.org http://lists.blender.org/mailman/listinfo/bf-committers
Re: [Bf-committers] Transform tool tweaks
On Tue, Jan 17, 2012 at 9:18 PM, Jorge Rodriguez jo...@lunarworkshop.com wrote: On Tue, Jan 17, 2012 at 11:42 AM, Knapp magick.c...@gmail.com wrote: It looks good but I would need to try it out to be sure. My one question is does RR still work? That is a command that I use a LOT. Sorry not familiar with the lingo, what is RR? Is it changing rotation type to and from trackball? Because yes that still works but I moved it to Shift-R. I'll be submitting a patch today I think. -- Jorge Vino Rodriguez Yes, that is what it is. The lingo is just the short cut key(s) used to activate it. I am not sure I like having it moved to shift R because it still has not sunk in that I must use b and c instead of the old b and bb. Seems like a similar problem to me. Really I want BB back, but will not likely get it. I know that I am not the only one that feel that way. I have seen at least 2 tuts that complain about the BB change. Typing R or RR is very fast and easy to use. Having to reach to shift for a very common short cut key is a pain. I don't know about the rest of the users but I have a hard time hitting keys like shift ( I tend to hit cap lock instead). Still I am thinking that it is very likely new users will love your changes. Perhaps this is JUST IMOHO! I look forward to others reactions. -- Douglas E Knapp Creative Commons Film Group, Helping people make open source movies with open source software! http://douglas.bespin.org/CommonsFilmGroup/phpBB3/index.php Massage in Gelsenkirchen-Buer: http://douglas.bespin.org/tcm/ztab1.htm Please link to me and trade links with me! Open Source Sci-Fi mmoRPG Game project. http://sf-journey-creations.wikispot.org/Front_Page http://code.google.com/p/perspectiveproject/ ___ Bf-committers mailing list Bf-committers@blender.org http://lists.blender.org/mailman/listinfo/bf-committers
Re: [Bf-committers] Transform tool tweaks
On Tue, Jan 17, 2012 at 12:54 PM, Knapp magick.c...@gmail.com wrote: Yes, that is what it is. The lingo is just the short cut key(s) used to activate it. I am not sure I like having it moved to shift R because it still has not sunk in that I must use b and c instead of the old b and bb. Seems like a similar problem to me. Really I want BB back, but will not likely get it. I know that I am not the only one that feel that way. I have seen at least 2 tuts that complain about the BB change. Typing R or RR is very fast and easy to use. Having to reach to shift for a very common short cut key is a pain. I don't know about the rest of the users but I have a hard time hitting keys like shift ( I tend to hit cap lock instead). Still I am thinking that it is very likely new users will love your changes. Perhaps this is JUST IMOHO! I look forward to others reactions. Well let me ask you a question - which kind of rotation do you use more often, trackball or regular? I feel that if the more common rotation were default then it would alleviate this. -- Jorge Vino Rodriguez jo...@lunarworkshop.com twitter: VinoBS 919.757.3066 ___ Bf-committers mailing list Bf-committers@blender.org http://lists.blender.org/mailman/listinfo/bf-committers
Re: [Bf-committers] Transform tool tweaks
Well let me ask you a question - which kind of rotation do you use more often, trackball or regular? I feel that if the more common rotation were default then it would alleviate this. -- Jorge Vino Rodriguez I see what you are getting at and I like the basic idea of it but I would not want to give up my habits without really gaining a big advantage to my work flow. So to answer your question; both. I use R for rotating meshes as I edit them and often lock an axis or 2 but sometimes I also use RR, if I don't need to be exactly in plane. If you make a head and want to aim the nose then RR is great but if you need to rotate on the Z then I use R. I use RR a lot for example setting up lights or the camera, I tend to use RR and R and I switch back and forth a lot. Often I am looking through the light or the camera at the time and am aiming it. The real problem for me is that I am not sure if I am representing the majority view or work flow. In any case I hope my input is helping you. -- Douglas E Knapp Creative Commons Film Group, Helping people make open source movies with open source software! http://douglas.bespin.org/CommonsFilmGroup/phpBB3/index.php Massage in Gelsenkirchen-Buer: http://douglas.bespin.org/tcm/ztab1.htm Please link to me and trade links with me! Open Source Sci-Fi mmoRPG Game project. http://sf-journey-creations.wikispot.org/Front_Page http://code.google.com/p/perspectiveproject/ ___ Bf-committers mailing list Bf-committers@blender.org http://lists.blender.org/mailman/listinfo/bf-committers
Re: [Bf-committers] Transform tool tweaks
Then the solution I would suggest is to bind one rotation type to R and the other to perhaps Shift-R. It's the same amount of keypresses either way. I feel like, although the current workflow is changed by this method, the overall workflow becomes faster and more intuitive, so it's worth it. -- Jorge Vino Rodriguez jo...@lunarworkshop.com twitter: VinoBS 919.757.3066 ___ Bf-committers mailing list Bf-committers@blender.org http://lists.blender.org/mailman/listinfo/bf-committers
Re: [Bf-committers] Transform tool tweaks
Am 17.01.2012 21:54, schrieb Knapp: On Tue, Jan 17, 2012 at 9:18 PM, Jorge Rodriguez jo...@lunarworkshop.com wrote: On Tue, Jan 17, 2012 at 11:42 AM, Knappmagick.c...@gmail.com wrote: It looks good but I would need to try it out to be sure. My one question is does RR still work? That is a command that I use a LOT. Sorry not familiar with the lingo, what is RR? Is it changing rotation type to and from trackball? Because yes that still works but I moved it to Shift-R. I'll be submitting a patch today I think. -- Jorge Vino Rodriguez Yes, that is what it is. The lingo is just the short cut key(s) used to activate it. I am not sure I like having it moved to shift R because it still has not sunk in that I must use b and c instead of the old b and bb. Seems like a similar problem to me. Really I want BB back, but will not likely get it. I know that I am not the only one that feel that way. I have seen at least 2 tuts that complain about the BB change. Typing R or RR is very fast and easy to use. Having to reach to shift for a very common short cut key is a pain. I don't know about the rest of the users but I have a hard time hitting keys like shift ( I tend to hit cap lock instead). Still I am thinking that it is very likely new users will love your changes. Perhaps this is JUST IMOHO! I look forward to others reactions. I'm really in favor to keep the shortcut mechanisms as simple as possible. They are good because they are fast and easy to type. Hitting RR is much more intuitive to me as to press R or Shift R. Personally i favor the default rotation and not the trackball rotation. Trackball always freaks me out if it rotates to angles in which you loose most of the control. That goes for the navigation in the 3D view as well. I always set it (even in 2.4x and before) to turntable to avoid that the view rotates sideways (y-rotation). It just didn't feel natural to me. Why not leave the default rotation at R and make the following possible: R = Start with default rotation Shift + R = Start with trackball Pressing either R or Shift+R again will toggle the mode. A personal note on Shift + MMB: What i would like to have is switch for the navigation behavior. In 3D-View the default keymapping is Shift+MMB to pan and MMB to rotate. I really like it the other way around. Why? Because nearly every panel (Curve-Editor, Properties, UV-Editor, etc.) or other program uses the middle mouse button for panning. So i wanted to to keep this in sync with the usual behavior. In 3D we can also rotate the view. But for it isn't such important (often used) while working. For example: If i work in front view and want to pan i would have to press Shift and MMB to do it. If i accidentially don't press Shift fast enough or release it to early i will rotate the view and loose the front-view perspective. This can be frustrating. If i use only the middle mouse button for panning, nothing can go wrong with the perspective. It pans or it does nothing. If i want to leave that perspective then i can press/hold Shift and don't really care about panning a little to the left, right, top or bottom. (Wasn't their a option in 2.49 to exchange this two combinations?) ___ Bf-committers mailing list Bf-committers@blender.org http://lists.blender.org/mailman/listinfo/bf-committers
Re: [Bf-committers] Transform tool tweaks
A quick note just so we can all remain on the same page. When I'm talking about rotation in this topic, I'm referring to when the user is rotating an object and the view remains the same. I'm not referring to when the user is rotating the view. This feature does not affect view rotation. On Tue, Jan 17, 2012 at 3:29 PM, Tobias Oelgarte tobias.oelga...@googlemail.com wrote: Why not leave the default rotation at R and make the following possible: R = Start with default rotation Shift + R = Start with trackball Pressing either R or Shift+R again will toggle the mode. The feature I proposed in the top post of this thread makes pressing any transformation key (G, R, or S) a second time confirm the transformation. I made this change because I feel it is a more expected behavior to new users - If you press a button to enter a rotation mode then you should be able to press that button again to exit it. Not all users will expect this behavior, but I don't think many users (other than existing Blender users) would expect that pressing the button again should retain the new mode but modify it. The number of former users (again not including existing users trained on the current behavior) is in my opinion much greater than the number of latter users. In short, I expect that many existing Blender users may not like the key rebind, but I think that letting the user press the R button twice to approve the rotation is a more intuitive behavior than pressing it again to toggle. In the end though, my proposal is very similar to yours: R = Start with default rotation Shift + R = Start with trackball R again = Confirm the current rotation Pressing Shift+R again will toggle the mode. So it's the same, but pressing R again confirms instead of toggles, which of course is the whole point of my patch. I'm pretty satisfied with this patch now, I'll be submitting it shortly. -- Jorge Vino Rodriguez jo...@lunarworkshop.com twitter: VinoBS 919.757.3066 ___ Bf-committers mailing list Bf-committers@blender.org http://lists.blender.org/mailman/listinfo/bf-committers
Re: [Bf-committers] Transform tool tweaks - Patch available
The patch is now available here: http://projects.blender.org/tracker/index.php?func=detailaid=29919group_id=9atid=127 I would love it if people could try it out and inform me of any problems or suggestions. I would be happy to update the patch given feedback. Following is a reprint of the patch description: This patch is against svn r43478 Changes: * Pressing the grab/rotate/resize button while the tool is already active will cause the tool to confirm the current transformation. In the case of switching rotation modes, this functionality has been moved to Shift-R instead. * When using a transform tool bound to right click, right clicking will confirm instead of cancel; otherwise it will cancel like before. * Holding a transform button/key will drag the object. If the user holds for longer than 250ms or farther than 10 pixels then the action is treated like a drag and when the key is released the transformation is automatically confirmed. Notes: * This patch removes some duplicate code in the modal handler for transform events. * In order to support this patch some slight changes have been made in the way handler operators are called. Duplicate button/key presses are now filtered by the handler and not sent to the operator, and information about the handler/keymapitem which invoked the operator (if any) have been added to the wmOperator structure. * The previous event state also now includes the prevkeytime - the time that the previous keyboard key was pressed. Justification: This patch attempts to improve the usability of the transformation tools by implementing behavior which most users will expect. If a button is pressed once to activate a tool, than users can expect to be able to press that same button again to deactivate the tool. If the user presses and holds the button then the functionality should remain active for as long an the button is held down and then deactivate when it is released. In order to implement this behavior, the behavior when pressing the rotation button twice had to be changed. Before, the second press toggled the rotation type. This functionality has been moved to Shift-R. I recommend that the default bindings also be changed so that Shift-R activates rotation directly in trackball mode, to reduce the number of key presses required to access that mode. I feel that while the different behavior may cause some friction for some current Blender users, the new features should help users, new users especially, feel more comfortable with Blender. -- Jorge Vino Rodriguez jo...@lunarworkshop.com twitter: VinoBS 919.757.3066 ___ Bf-committers mailing list Bf-committers@blender.org http://lists.blender.org/mailman/listinfo/bf-committers
Re: [Bf-committers] Transform tool tweaks - Patch available
Hi Jorge, I'll be looking at this as soon as I have time (probably on Thursday). Some of the changes (confirming with release among others) are stuff that I tried early on while porting transform to the 2.5 operator system and should be doable with the current keymap setup. If you want a workflow that isn't currently possible with the customization that exists, I generally think it's better to make the system flexible enough to support both (which might be what you did, haven't looked at the patch yet) and then discuss what the default keymaps/options should be. I'll get back to you once I've had a good look at your patch. Thanks, Martin From: Jorge Rodriguez jo...@lunarworkshop.com To: bf-blender developers bf-committers@blender.org Sent: Tuesday, January 17, 2012 9:25:07 PM Subject: Re: [Bf-committers] Transform tool tweaks - Patch available The patch is now available here: http://projects.blender.org/tracker/index.php?func=detailaid=29919group_id=9atid=127 I would love it if people could try it out and inform me of any problems or suggestions. I would be happy to update the patch given feedback. Following is a reprint of the patch description: This patch is against svn r43478 Changes: * Pressing the grab/rotate/resize button while the tool is already active will cause the tool to confirm the current transformation. In the case of switching rotation modes, this functionality has been moved to Shift-R instead. * When using a transform tool bound to right click, right clicking will confirm instead of cancel; otherwise it will cancel like before. * Holding a transform button/key will drag the object. If the user holds for longer than 250ms or farther than 10 pixels then the action is treated like a drag and when the key is released the transformation is automatically confirmed. Notes: * This patch removes some duplicate code in the modal handler for transform events. * In order to support this patch some slight changes have been made in the way handler operators are called. Duplicate button/key presses are now filtered by the handler and not sent to the operator, and information about the handler/keymapitem which invoked the operator (if any) have been added to the wmOperator structure. * The previous event state also now includes the prevkeytime - the time that the previous keyboard key was pressed. Justification: This patch attempts to improve the usability of the transformation tools by implementing behavior which most users will expect. If a button is pressed once to activate a tool, than users can expect to be able to press that same button again to deactivate the tool. If the user presses and holds the button then the functionality should remain active for as long an the button is held down and then deactivate when it is released. In order to implement this behavior, the behavior when pressing the rotation button twice had to be changed. Before, the second press toggled the rotation type. This functionality has been moved to Shift-R. I recommend that the default bindings also be changed so that Shift-R activates rotation directly in trackball mode, to reduce the number of key presses required to access that mode. I feel that while the different behavior may cause some friction for some current Blender users, the new features should help users, new users especially, feel more comfortable with Blender. -- Jorge Vino Rodriguez jo...@lunarworkshop.com twitter: VinoBS 919.757.3066 ___ Bf-committers mailing list Bf-committers@blender.org http://lists.blender.org/mailman/listinfo/bf-committers ___ Bf-committers mailing list Bf-committers@blender.org http://lists.blender.org/mailman/listinfo/bf-committers
Re: [Bf-committers] Transform tool tweaks - Patch available
Thanks Martin I'd appreciate that a lot. I see you're the Transform module owner so it's good to know it's being looked at :) I tried to keep the workflow compatible with the current workflow. It should be entirely compatible with the exception of RR. If you have ideas of how to support both at once I would love to hear. On Tue, Jan 17, 2012 at 7:37 PM, Martin Poirier the...@yahoo.com wrote: Hi Jorge, I'll be looking at this as soon as I have time (probably on Thursday). Some of the changes (confirming with release among others) are stuff that I tried early on while porting transform to the 2.5 operator system and should be doable with the current keymap setup. If you want a workflow that isn't currently possible with the customization that exists, I generally think it's better to make the system flexible enough to support both (which might be what you did, haven't looked at the patch yet) and then discuss what the default keymaps/options should be. I'll get back to you once I've had a good look at your patch. Thanks, Martin From: Jorge Rodriguez jo...@lunarworkshop.com To: bf-blender developers bf-committers@blender.org Sent: Tuesday, January 17, 2012 9:25:07 PM Subject: Re: [Bf-committers] Transform tool tweaks - Patch available The patch is now available here: http://projects.blender.org/tracker/index.php?func=detailaid=29919group_id=9atid=127 I would love it if people could try it out and inform me of any problems or suggestions. I would be happy to update the patch given feedback. Following is a reprint of the patch description: This patch is against svn r43478 Changes: * Pressing the grab/rotate/resize button while the tool is already active will cause the tool to confirm the current transformation. In the case of switching rotation modes, this functionality has been moved to Shift-R instead. * When using a transform tool bound to right click, right clicking will confirm instead of cancel; otherwise it will cancel like before. * Holding a transform button/key will drag the object. If the user holds for longer than 250ms or farther than 10 pixels then the action is treated like a drag and when the key is released the transformation is automatically confirmed. Notes: * This patch removes some duplicate code in the modal handler for transform events. * In order to support this patch some slight changes have been made in the way handler operators are called. Duplicate button/key presses are now filtered by the handler and not sent to the operator, and information about the handler/keymapitem which invoked the operator (if any) have been added to the wmOperator structure. * The previous event state also now includes the prevkeytime - the time that the previous keyboard key was pressed. Justification: This patch attempts to improve the usability of the transformation tools by implementing behavior which most users will expect. If a button is pressed once to activate a tool, than users can expect to be able to press that same button again to deactivate the tool. If the user presses and holds the button then the functionality should remain active for as long an the button is held down and then deactivate when it is released. In order to implement this behavior, the behavior when pressing the rotation button twice had to be changed. Before, the second press toggled the rotation type. This functionality has been moved to Shift-R. I recommend that the default bindings also be changed so that Shift-R activates rotation directly in trackball mode, to reduce the number of key presses required to access that mode. I feel that while the different behavior may cause some friction for some current Blender users, the new features should help users, new users especially, feel more comfortable with Blender. -- Jorge Vino Rodriguez jo...@lunarworkshop.com twitter: VinoBS 919.757.3066 ___ Bf-committers mailing list Bf-committers@blender.org http://lists.blender.org/mailman/listinfo/bf-committers ___ Bf-committers mailing list Bf-committers@blender.org http://lists.blender.org/mailman/listinfo/bf-committers -- Jorge Vino Rodriguez jo...@lunarworkshop.com twitter: VinoBS 919.757.3066 ___ Bf-committers mailing list Bf-committers@blender.org http://lists.blender.org/mailman/listinfo/bf-committers
