Re: [Bf-committers] UI changes from cycles branch
So has there been a conclusive This is what will be merged? Or is everyone still not sure. I would love to see the agreed upon changes merged sooner rather than later if possible, then you can start to see feedback from people using the development versions of Blender. I don't know how a decision is normally made on these kinds of topics but it would be great to see one made. Cheers, Jonathan ___ Bf-committers mailing list Bf-committers@blender.org http://lists.blender.org/mailman/listinfo/bf-committers
Re: [Bf-committers] UI changes from cycles branch
Hi, I'm going to commit some user preferences to make this look possible, what the right default is we can then decide later. First priority for me is to merge Cycles though, so might be a week or so before I get to finishing this. Brecht. On Thu, Nov 3, 2011 at 11:02 PM, Jonathan Smith j.jay...@gmail.com wrote: So has there been a conclusive This is what will be merged? Or is everyone still not sure. I would love to see the agreed upon changes merged sooner rather than later if possible, then you can start to see feedback from people using the development versions of Blender. I don't know how a decision is normally made on these kinds of topics but it would be great to see one made. Cheers, Jonathan ___ Bf-committers mailing list Bf-committers@blender.org http://lists.blender.org/mailman/listinfo/bf-committers ___ Bf-committers mailing list Bf-committers@blender.org http://lists.blender.org/mailman/listinfo/bf-committers
Re: [Bf-committers] UI changes from cycles branch
Hi, Overall I like the changes a lot, just a few thoughts: - I fully agree with Matt on the icons. - The corner handles are _very_ close to invisible for me. If I didn't already know their purpose and locations I would most likely not notice them for quite some time or disregard them as unimportant visual details. - I strongly prefer the drop menu arrows in a light color, black on dark grey just strains my eyes and I believe it benefits general usability for this to be made clear. - The 3d view panel toggles could use a lighter plus, see previous point.. Generally speaking, I feel dark-on-dark colors for various UI elements just makes them harder to pick out quickly when working, and there is a lot of that exact thing being proposed. I am by no means the only one around with either imperfect vision or a monitor which doesn't display these things well (in my case, the latter). -- Colby On Oct 27, 2011, at 4:44 AM, Daniel Salazar - 3Developer.com wrote: +1 on the black arrow icons, white is unnecessarily strong since the important part is the *text*, having white on both the text and the arrows confuses the eye in which direction to focus -1 on the general icons being toned down.. agree with matt on this one Daniel Salazar 3Developer.com On Wed, Oct 26, 2011 at 9:12 PM, Matt Ebb m...@mke3.net wrote: On Tue, Oct 25, 2011 at 4:07 AM, Brecht Van Lommel brechtvanlom...@pandora.be wrote: Hi, Panel headers a bit darker now and increased button embossing: Before: http://www.pasteall.org/pic/show.php?id=19452 Latest: http://www.pasteall.org/pic/show.php?id=19501 This is certainly an improvement on the first proposal I also like the icons to be a bit more muted, again to avoid them grabbing attention too much with highlights. For me this is what really finishes it off, to make the interface nice calm, but maybe this is considered too dull. -1. Firstly I don't see the necessity of this - I think the current icons are excellent and strike a good balance between quick wayfinding and visual noise. But even assmung its needed, this still is not a good way to go about it. If you want duller icons, they need to be designed that way with a different colour scheme and design requirements that takes this into consideration. Doing an overall alpha blend is pretty heavy handed and disregards the intention of the designer. Matt ___ Bf-committers mailing list Bf-committers@blender.org http://lists.blender.org/mailman/listinfo/bf-committers ___ Bf-committers mailing list Bf-committers@blender.org http://lists.blender.org/mailman/listinfo/bf-committers ___ Bf-committers mailing list Bf-committers@blender.org http://lists.blender.org/mailman/listinfo/bf-committers
Re: [Bf-committers] UI changes from cycles branch
+1 on the black arrow icons, white is unnecessarily strong since the important part is the *text*, having white on both the text and the arrows confuses the eye in which direction to focus -1 on the general icons being toned down.. agree with matt on this one Daniel Salazar 3Developer.com On Wed, Oct 26, 2011 at 9:12 PM, Matt Ebb m...@mke3.net wrote: On Tue, Oct 25, 2011 at 4:07 AM, Brecht Van Lommel brechtvanlom...@pandora.be wrote: Hi, Panel headers a bit darker now and increased button embossing: Before: http://www.pasteall.org/pic/show.php?id=19452 Latest: http://www.pasteall.org/pic/show.php?id=19501 This is certainly an improvement on the first proposal I also like the icons to be a bit more muted, again to avoid them grabbing attention too much with highlights. For me this is what really finishes it off, to make the interface nice calm, but maybe this is considered too dull. -1. Firstly I don't see the necessity of this - I think the current icons are excellent and strike a good balance between quick wayfinding and visual noise. But even assmung its needed, this still is not a good way to go about it. If you want duller icons, they need to be designed that way with a different colour scheme and design requirements that takes this into consideration. Doing an overall alpha blend is pretty heavy handed and disregards the intention of the designer. Matt ___ Bf-committers mailing list Bf-committers@blender.org http://lists.blender.org/mailman/listinfo/bf-committers ___ Bf-committers mailing list Bf-committers@blender.org http://lists.blender.org/mailman/listinfo/bf-committers
Re: [Bf-committers] UI changes from cycles branch
On Tue, Oct 25, 2011 at 4:07 AM, Brecht Van Lommel brechtvanlom...@pandora.be wrote: Hi, Panel headers a bit darker now and increased button embossing: Before: http://www.pasteall.org/pic/show.php?id=19452 Latest: http://www.pasteall.org/pic/show.php?id=19501 This is certainly an improvement on the first proposal I also like the icons to be a bit more muted, again to avoid them grabbing attention too much with highlights. For me this is what really finishes it off, to make the interface nice calm, but maybe this is considered too dull. -1. Firstly I don't see the necessity of this - I think the current icons are excellent and strike a good balance between quick wayfinding and visual noise. But even assmung its needed, this still is not a good way to go about it. If you want duller icons, they need to be designed that way with a different colour scheme and design requirements that takes this into consideration. Doing an overall alpha blend is pretty heavy handed and disregards the intention of the designer. Matt ___ Bf-committers mailing list Bf-committers@blender.org http://lists.blender.org/mailman/listinfo/bf-committers
Re: [Bf-committers] UI changes from cycles branch
Hi all, I'll definitively agree with replacing for (+) icons. This really makes things more clear. Don't think changes to header is really so nice. It's difficult to distinguish it in sequencer, user preferences, a bit easier to distinguish in graph view, logic editor, outliner. And in all this cases it looks like something non-finished. Also looks like some artifacts appears when you collapse header in 3d viewport and open it again (there's dark line just behind (+) icon used for expanding header which draws in timeline). Also not sure if changes to panels are really so nice. It's fine that their headers is more clear now, but it's difficult to believe that they can be moved -- i can't see grid used for moving on my monitors. Also, it's really non-clear now that operator redo panel can be resized. I also like low contrast, but think arrows on buttons can be a bit more contrast. Don't think it should be something like they are enough contrast on my monitor -- monitors are different and contrast/colors are different even for the same image displayed. The same thing about screen splitting widgets. It's nice that they aren't so contrast now, but it's a bit difficult to notice them here (i.e. from camera view in 3d viewport i can't see left top widget). Also i don't think default font should be changed. It's matter of taste. And i also think rather than trying to make default interface ideal (i'm not talking about preventing some improvements here) we'd better to finish UI styles things. So you can choose if you want emboss/flat interface, choose font you want to use for the interface, font size and so. Campbell Barton wrote: Overall seems ok to me, though some of these details I'm not fussed either way. dark vs light arrows - no strong opinion here, though I like lower contrast but agree its too low at least on my monitor. Matt, agree emboss on buttons could be good but think how its used in trunk does not communicate anything about the buttons state. In Agustin Benavidez's reply he mentions about buttons being pressed being hard to see, While I agree with him (and think we should improve this), I don't think you're patch makes this better or worse, in both since the emboss is on the outside not showing if the button is pressed or not. On Mon, Oct 24, 2011 at 3:01 PM, Thomas Dingesblen...@dingto.org wrote: Hi, I fully agree with Brechts changes and give +1 for them as Py UI Module Owner and member of the Interface Look team! I would also not necessarily change the screen splitting widget, I think it's way better in the Cycles branch now, compared to trunk. Removing the white arrows in menus, making them darker, helps indeed a lot while scanning over buttons as well. Regards, Thomas Am 24.10.2011 03:29, schrieb Brecht Van Lommel: Hi, On Mon, Oct 24, 2011 at 1:39 AM, Matt Ebbm...@mke3.netwrote: I'd personally like to hear the rationale for these rather than just saying here's the patch. Some of it seems a bit more like a matter of taste too, rather than something that's designed for a wide audience, so I'm curious to hear the reasoning. Alright, I already discussed this with a few people, so forgot that it might need more explanation :) * Remove emboss on areas and regions The embossing distracts from the buttons and text in the actual region. There wasn't any embossing around areas (mistakenly mentioned that), only black lines. It's around regions only, and there it doesn't seem to help much, because the regions are in a different color from the main region anyway? * Remove button emboss * More subtle colors and gradients on buttons For me this helps a lot in making the buttons more readable. Most user interfaces have only sparsely distributed buttons, but in blender we have many buttons, and I think at a certain point embossing and gradients just make it harder to actually read the text in them. Buttons with more embossing make a clear distinction with e.g. the 3d view or timeline, but I think they just take away attention too much. Most user interfaces have most buttons in the same color and nearly the same color as the background. In Blender this is not the case, and adding embossing doesn't seem needed. * Black arrows on menu button -1, Way too low contrast, there's almost no point in having them there. Makes them look like other dark UI widgets like radio buttons, which is not good. For me the arrows are quite visible but they could be made darker still. I think that if you look at the buttons, you see the arrows, but if you're scanning over buttons they can be skipped over. I think this is a good thing, for example in the 3d view header, there's a few of those in a row. The white arrows distract from the white text/icons and it's harder to scan for the right button. * Panel header changed looksmaller The panel header with a single line makes it more difficult to see where one panel ends and
Re: [Bf-committers] UI changes from cycles branch
Am 24.10.2011 01:21, schrieb Brecht Van Lommel: Hi all, Here's a patch with a subset of the UI changes in the cycles branch that I'd like to merge into trunk. Are there any objections to this? I don't think they would need any documentation updates, it's just small things that wouldn't confuse anyone in screenshot: * Remove emboss on areas and regions * Remove button emboss Hm. I am not sure here. Somehow the emboss gives a optical hint that there is something new starting. * More subtle colors and gradients on buttons * Black arrows on menu button I think the arrows are much to dark. It was and is always hard to print a Blender screen but this way I think it will be nearly impossible to see the arrows anymore. Also there is not much visual hint how that this is a menu-button and not a normal one. * Panel header changed look smaller Thats nice. I think together with the removal of emboss it looks nice, but see first point. * Screen splitting widgets look Too dark too. * Toolbar/properties expand button look Yea, the original ones are a bit big. Carsten -- Carsten Wartmann: Autor - Dozent - 3D - Grafik Homepage: http://blenderbuch.de/ Das Blender-Buch: http://blenderbuch.de/redirect.html ___ Bf-committers mailing list Bf-committers@blender.org http://lists.blender.org/mailman/listinfo/bf-committers
Re: [Bf-committers] UI changes from cycles branch
Matt Ebb +1 Most problematic changes for me are; - Dark arrows ; should be bright, otherwise hard to see in both monitors I'm using right now. - No embossing ; I'm ok with making embossing more subtle but it's TOO subtle right now. -- Micael Dias ___ Bf-committers mailing list Bf-committers@blender.org http://lists.blender.org/mailman/listinfo/bf-committers
Re: [Bf-committers] UI changes from cycles branch
I think Brecht's UI changes look better than the current interface, although there are a few things that people have brought up which I agree should be changed first. * Remove emboss on areas and regions * Remove button emboss I don't have any strong opinions on this * More subtle colors and gradients on buttons I think some stronger gradients would look nicer. What I liked about the older UI is that the background was a little brighter, making the interface look less 'gloomy' (I can't think of another way to describe it). * Black arrows on menu button Although I understand the thought behind this, it is much easier when quickly scanning to spot the arrow which indicates a drop-down menu, rather than trying to find the shape of the drop-down menu. However saying that, almost all drop-down menus are that colour already, so that does distinguish them. * Panel header changed look smaller I like the new look of the panel headers, which is much easier to distinguish, although they do look a little crowded. I wonder what putting a couple pixels space between each one would look like. * Screen splitting widgets look They are nice, but I think they should be a little larger: it looks like you lost almost an 1/8th of the widget in conversion. * Toolbar/properties expand button look MUCH, MUCH better. I think the plus symbols could be a little brighter, and if we are going to change the ones on the side, then what about the expand widget in the header? Maybe it should be changed too somehow. Overall I think it's headed in the right direction, and will improve the Blender UI significantly. Cheers, Jonathan ___ Bf-committers mailing list Bf-committers@blender.org http://lists.blender.org/mailman/listinfo/bf-committers
Re: [Bf-committers] UI changes from cycles branch
I really can't understand most of the arguments here. I think that the way Brecht is trying to simplify the UI is very good, and makes visual scalability much better. William Reynish recently did a proposal as well, based on Brechts UI changes: http://lists.blender.org/pipermail/bf-committers/2011-October/034017.html So he agrees with the changes as well. But let's get over them in a bit more detail: * Remove emboss on areas and regions Great improvement, it stills very clear what a region is, we dont need that emboss there imho. * Remove button emboss Same as above. * More subtle colors and gradients on buttons Although I like the new ones, I agree we could make it a bit more like current trunk, so they are not too flat. * Black arrows on menu button Scanning though a header (3D View) is much easier now, as the eye does not get distracted by the arrows (and maybe even misinterprets them as icons) * Panel header changed look smaller This fits better to a panel design imho, than the odd line above each panel as before. * Screen splitting widgets look They look so much better and simple, no offence but the current ones just look ugly. * Toolbar/properties expand button look Perfect Long story short: I agree with all changes, but I think some colors/gradients can be made more clear for people using Stonehenge monitors. ;-) (No offence here too, but I have no issues with the new UI in terms of visibility on my cheap 150€ screen ;-) ) Regards, Thomas Am 24.10.2011 11:13, schrieb Carsten Wartmann: Am 24.10.2011 01:21, schrieb Brecht Van Lommel: Hi all, Here's a patch with a subset of the UI changes in the cycles branch that I'd like to merge into trunk. Are there any objections to this? I don't think they would need any documentation updates, it's just small things that wouldn't confuse anyone in screenshot: * Remove emboss on areas and regions * Remove button emboss Hm. I am not sure here. Somehow the emboss gives a optical hint that there is something new starting. * More subtle colors and gradients on buttons * Black arrows on menu button I think the arrows are much to dark. It was and is always hard to print a Blender screen but this way I think it will be nearly impossible to see the arrows anymore. Also there is not much visual hint how that this is a menu-button and not a normal one. * Panel header changed look smaller Thats nice. I think together with the removal of emboss it looks nice, but see first point. * Screen splitting widgets look Too dark too. * Toolbar/properties expand button look Yea, the original ones are a bit big. Carsten -- Thomas Dinges Blender Developer, Artist and Musician www.dingto.org ___ Bf-committers mailing list Bf-committers@blender.org http://lists.blender.org/mailman/listinfo/bf-committers
Re: [Bf-committers] UI changes from cycles branch
Wront link to Williams proposal, here is the right one. http://billrey.blogspot.com/2011/10/cleaning-up-blender-ui.html Am 24.10.2011 11:53, schrieb Thomas Dinges: I really can't understand most of the arguments here. I think that the way Brecht is trying to simplify the UI is very good, and makes visual scalability much better. William Reynish recently did a proposal as well, based on Brechts UI changes: http://lists.blender.org/pipermail/bf-committers/2011-October/034017.html So he agrees with the changes as well. But let's get over them in a bit more detail: * Remove emboss on areas and regions Great improvement, it stills very clear what a region is, we dont need that emboss there imho. * Remove button emboss Same as above. * More subtle colors and gradients on buttons Although I like the new ones, I agree we could make it a bit more like current trunk, so they are not too flat. * Black arrows on menu button Scanning though a header (3D View) is much easier now, as the eye does not get distracted by the arrows (and maybe even misinterprets them as icons) * Panel header changed look smaller This fits better to a panel design imho, than the odd line above each panel as before. * Screen splitting widgets look They look so much better and simple, no offence but the current ones just look ugly. * Toolbar/properties expand button look Perfect Long story short: I agree with all changes, but I think some colors/gradients can be made more clear for people using Stonehenge monitors. ;-) (No offence here too, but I have no issues with the new UI in terms of visibility on my cheap 150€ screen ;-) ) Regards, Thomas Am 24.10.2011 11:13, schrieb Carsten Wartmann: Am 24.10.2011 01:21, schrieb Brecht Van Lommel: Hi all, Here's a patch with a subset of the UI changes in the cycles branch that I'd like to merge into trunk. Are there any objections to this? I don't think they would need any documentation updates, it's just small things that wouldn't confuse anyone in screenshot: * Remove emboss on areas and regions * Remove button emboss Hm. I am not sure here. Somehow the emboss gives a optical hint that there is something new starting. * More subtle colors and gradients on buttons * Black arrows on menu button I think the arrows are much to dark. It was and is always hard to print a Blender screen but this way I think it will be nearly impossible to see the arrows anymore. Also there is not much visual hint how that this is a menu-button and not a normal one. * Panel header changed looksmaller Thats nice. I think together with the removal of emboss it looks nice, but see first point. * Screen splitting widgets look Too dark too. * Toolbar/properties expand button look Yea, the original ones are a bit big. Carsten -- Thomas Dinges Blender Developer, Artist and Musician www.dingto.org ___ Bf-committers mailing list Bf-committers@blender.org http://lists.blender.org/mailman/listinfo/bf-committers
Re: [Bf-committers] UI changes from cycles branch
Hi Brecht, I would like to have seen this proposed differently. Namely: - Mention the changes in defaults that are part of themes already (means, users with saved themes won't notice any change!) - Propose which new options could go to themes (The area/region embossing can get themable for example) - Suggest to deliver the default startup.blend with two themes; one more 'flattened' and one more 'embossed' (as 2.5x). I'm actually quite sure most of the changes are either already in themes, or easy to add or fix to get work right. Saves a lot of useless discussions if we can solve it that way. The UI Style stuff I worked on was really meant to be flexible, so we can give Blender fresh fashionable looks once a while. :) -Ton- Ton Roosendaal Blender Foundation t...@blender.orgwww.blender.org Blender Institute Entrepotdok 57A 1018AD Amsterdam The Netherlands On 24 Oct, 2011, at 1:21, Brecht Van Lommel wrote: Hi all, Here's a patch with a subset of the UI changes in the cycles branch that I'd like to merge into trunk. Are there any objections to this? Before: http://www.pasteall.org/pic/show.php?id=19452 After: http://www.pasteall.org/pic/show.php?id=19453 Patch: http://www.pasteall.org/25777/diff I don't think they would need any documentation updates, it's just small things that wouldn't confuse anyone in screenshot: * Remove emboss on areas and regions * Remove button emboss * More subtle colors and gradients on buttons * Black arrows on menu button * Panel header changed look smaller * Screen splitting widgets look * Toolbar/properties expand button look Not included: * Droid sans font, was not received very well for the few days it was in trunk * Contrast reduction on icons * Auto hide scrollers (later, is unfinished) I'd still like to change the font in trunk, but it seems hard to get an agreement on this. Some tests: Lucida Grade (mac ui font, non-free): http://www.pasteall.org/pic/show.php?id=19454 Ubuntu font: http://www.pasteall.org/pic/show.php?id=19457 Droid Sans font: http://www.pasteall.org/pic/show.php?id=19458 Thanks, Brecht. ___ Bf-committers mailing list Bf-committers@blender.org http://lists.blender.org/mailman/listinfo/bf-committers ___ Bf-committers mailing list Bf-committers@blender.org http://lists.blender.org/mailman/listinfo/bf-committers
Re: [Bf-committers] UI changes from cycles branch
Brecht Van Lommel brechtvanlom...@pandora.be wrote: Here's a patch with a subset of the UI changes in the cycles branch that I'd like to merge into trunk. Are there any objections to this? Before: http://www.pasteall.org/pic/show.php?id=19452 After: http://www.pasteall.org/pic/show.php?id=19453 Below are my opinions about the patch, made by comparing the two screenshots. So this obviously excludes issues improvements that might show up in different areas of Blender. Background: I program python add-ons and use Blender in my spare time. I agree with Ton that some things should be handled by allowing custom designs, but some things with the default style could should be improved nevertheless. -- Positive * Panel header changed look smaller +1 Love the change of the headers in the patch, makes it easier (for me) to scan. The current seperator-line + bigger text feels like clutter, never was a fan of that. Not sure if the size change of the text is neccesary, but the bar helps a lot IMO. I'd really like to see this in the default style Blender. * Toolbar/properties expand button look Big + The current look seems seems rather floaty. Again, I'd like to see this in the default style Blender. -- Negative * Remove button emboss * More subtle colors and gradients on buttons http://www.pasteall.org/pic/show.php?id=19453 -1 for the end result (not sure if the emboss is directly involved) It is already a fine line with the current default design. In the patch I can NOT differenciate between e.g. buttons and a text box on a first glance. After looking for a few seconds one can deduce what's what, but that's not a good design decision IMHO. * Screen splitting widgets look * Black arrows on menu button I'm more or less indifferent about these, but I imagine that this will cause other people trouble. (e.g. Sometimes hiding interface options for beginners and in the worst case even experienced users). Increasing the contrast just a tad might help a lot here (darker or lighter). I'm certain there exists a good middle ground. -- Indifferent * Remove emboss on areas and regions Don't care, I think both look nice and usable. Only problem that I could imagine would be if the grab area of the edge gets smaller as well? That would be bad, but not a problem with the graphical design. Cheers, Martin ___ Bf-committers mailing list Bf-committers@blender.org http://lists.blender.org/mailman/listinfo/bf-committers
Re: [Bf-committers] UI changes from cycles branch
On Monday 24 October 2011, Brecht Van Lommel wrote: Here's a patch with a subset of the UI changes in the cycles branch that I'd like to merge into trunk. Are there any objections to this? As a user, if I may: I liked your UI changes in the Cycles branch from the start, so I would be delighted if your proposed list goes into trunk. I like it so much because, for me, every single change reduces visual clutter and makes working with it much easier and more enjoyable. Too much visual contrast distracts me, especially embossed styles, and your changes help alot. It is also just a bit narrower than the default, not so much as to feel cramped, but just right, and it reduces scrolling. Every little bit helps. I don't have an opinion on the font though, because I use my own custom font with aa off anyway. Thanks, Sanne ___ Bf-committers mailing list Bf-committers@blender.org http://lists.blender.org/mailman/listinfo/bf-committers
Re: [Bf-committers] UI changes from cycles branch
Hi, user here :) +1 for Brecht. I like changes in usability and style sense, lower contrast, less annoying highlights, perfect. I worked with it and I really like those changes. For me they are ok for defaults. and +1 for Ton. All of this should be available for changes in theme editor. ___ Bf-committers mailing list Bf-committers@blender.org http://lists.blender.org/mailman/listinfo/bf-committers
Re: [Bf-committers] UI changes from cycles branch
Updated with some changes: Before: http://www.pasteall.org/pic/show.php?id=19452 Previous: http://www.pasteall.org/pic/show.php?id=19453 Now: http://www.pasteall.org/pic/show.php?id=19477 * Area embossing back, more subtle fix it being drawn wrong with 1 pixel offset * More space in panel headers * Darker arrows on menu button * Screen splitting widget with grippers On Mon, Oct 24, 2011 at 1:21 AM, Brecht Van Lommel brechtvanlom...@pandora.be wrote: Hi all, Here's a patch with a subset of the UI changes in the cycles branch that I'd like to merge into trunk. Are there any objections to this? Before: http://www.pasteall.org/pic/show.php?id=19452 After: http://www.pasteall.org/pic/show.php?id=19453 Patch: http://www.pasteall.org/25777/diff I don't think they would need any documentation updates, it's just small things that wouldn't confuse anyone in screenshot: * Remove emboss on areas and regions * Remove button emboss * More subtle colors and gradients on buttons * Black arrows on menu button * Panel header changed look smaller * Screen splitting widgets look * Toolbar/properties expand button look Not included: * Droid sans font, was not received very well for the few days it was in trunk * Contrast reduction on icons * Auto hide scrollers (later, is unfinished) I'd still like to change the font in trunk, but it seems hard to get an agreement on this. Some tests: Lucida Grade (mac ui font, non-free): http://www.pasteall.org/pic/show.php?id=19454 Ubuntu font: http://www.pasteall.org/pic/show.php?id=19457 Droid Sans font: http://www.pasteall.org/pic/show.php?id=19458 Thanks, Brecht. ___ Bf-committers mailing list Bf-committers@blender.org http://lists.blender.org/mailman/listinfo/bf-committers
Re: [Bf-committers] UI changes from cycles branch
+1 Am 24.10.2011 14:05, schrieb Brecht Van Lommel: Updated with some changes: Before: http://www.pasteall.org/pic/show.php?id=19452 Previous: http://www.pasteall.org/pic/show.php?id=19453 Now: http://www.pasteall.org/pic/show.php?id=19477 * Area embossing back, more subtle fix it being drawn wrong with 1 pixel offset * More space in panel headers * Darker arrows on menu button * Screen splitting widget with grippers On Mon, Oct 24, 2011 at 1:21 AM, Brecht Van Lommel brechtvanlom...@pandora.be wrote: Hi all, Here's a patch with a subset of the UI changes in the cycles branch that I'd like to merge into trunk. Are there any objections to this? Before: http://www.pasteall.org/pic/show.php?id=19452 After: http://www.pasteall.org/pic/show.php?id=19453 Patch: http://www.pasteall.org/25777/diff I don't think they would need any documentation updates, it's just small things that wouldn't confuse anyone in screenshot: * Remove emboss on areas and regions * Remove button emboss * More subtle colors and gradients on buttons * Black arrows on menu button * Panel header changed look smaller * Screen splitting widgets look * Toolbar/properties expand button look Not included: * Droid sans font, was not received very well for the few days it was in trunk * Contrast reduction on icons * Auto hide scrollers (later, is unfinished) I'd still like to change the font in trunk, but it seems hard to get an agreement on this. Some tests: Lucida Grade (mac ui font, non-free): http://www.pasteall.org/pic/show.php?id=19454 Ubuntu font: http://www.pasteall.org/pic/show.php?id=19457 Droid Sans font: http://www.pasteall.org/pic/show.php?id=19458 Thanks, Brecht. ___ Bf-committers mailing list Bf-committers@blender.org http://lists.blender.org/mailman/listinfo/bf-committers -- Thomas Dinges Blender Developer, Artist and Musician www.dingto.org ___ Bf-committers mailing list Bf-committers@blender.org http://lists.blender.org/mailman/listinfo/bf-committers
Re: [Bf-committers] UI changes from cycles branch
Hi brecht, better indeed. In my opinion it is still difficult to discern the panel contents from the panel titles. Maybe a lighter tone for contents? ___ Bf-committers mailing list Bf-committers@blender.org http://lists.blender.org/mailman/listinfo/bf-committers
Re: [Bf-committers] UI changes from cycles branch
@Brecht, I like it better now, still: - As Αντώνης suggested, the panel titles should be more discerned. I would put just a little more contrast in the emboss effect of the title box and/or darken the background. - On the dropdown menus, it is my opinion that the arrows should be of a light color instead of a dark color. But it's now visible enough not to be accidentally missed. Anyway, great work! -- Micael Dias ___ Bf-committers mailing list Bf-committers@blender.org http://lists.blender.org/mailman/listinfo/bf-committers
Re: [Bf-committers] UI changes from cycles branch
Hi, I can add user configuration for a few things, and most of the changes (at least the controversial ones) are just changes to existing settings. But I would like to change the default theme as well, and I think it's useful to discuss that here and tweak things. Brecht. On Mon, Oct 24, 2011 at 12:17 PM, Ton Roosendaal t...@blender.org wrote: Hi Brecht, I would like to have seen this proposed differently. Namely: - Mention the changes in defaults that are part of themes already (means, users with saved themes won't notice any change!) - Propose which new options could go to themes (The area/region embossing can get themable for example) - Suggest to deliver the default startup.blend with two themes; one more 'flattened' and one more 'embossed' (as 2.5x). I'm actually quite sure most of the changes are either already in themes, or easy to add or fix to get work right. Saves a lot of useless discussions if we can solve it that way. The UI Style stuff I worked on was really meant to be flexible, so we can give Blender fresh fashionable looks once a while. :) -Ton- Ton Roosendaal Blender Foundation t...@blender.org www.blender.org Blender Institute Entrepotdok 57A 1018AD Amsterdam The Netherlands On 24 Oct, 2011, at 1:21, Brecht Van Lommel wrote: Hi all, Here's a patch with a subset of the UI changes in the cycles branch that I'd like to merge into trunk. Are there any objections to this? Before: http://www.pasteall.org/pic/show.php?id=19452 After: http://www.pasteall.org/pic/show.php?id=19453 Patch: http://www.pasteall.org/25777/diff I don't think they would need any documentation updates, it's just small things that wouldn't confuse anyone in screenshot: * Remove emboss on areas and regions * Remove button emboss * More subtle colors and gradients on buttons * Black arrows on menu button * Panel header changed look smaller * Screen splitting widgets look * Toolbar/properties expand button look Not included: * Droid sans font, was not received very well for the few days it was in trunk * Contrast reduction on icons * Auto hide scrollers (later, is unfinished) I'd still like to change the font in trunk, but it seems hard to get an agreement on this. Some tests: Lucida Grade (mac ui font, non-free): http://www.pasteall.org/pic/show.php?id=19454 Ubuntu font: http://www.pasteall.org/pic/show.php?id=19457 Droid Sans font: http://www.pasteall.org/pic/show.php?id=19458 Thanks, Brecht. ___ Bf-committers mailing list Bf-committers@blender.org http://lists.blender.org/mailman/listinfo/bf-committers ___ Bf-committers mailing list Bf-committers@blender.org http://lists.blender.org/mailman/listinfo/bf-committers ___ Bf-committers mailing list Bf-committers@blender.org http://lists.blender.org/mailman/listinfo/bf-committers
Re: [Bf-committers] UI changes from cycles branch
Hi, Panel headers a bit darker now and increased button embossing: Before: http://www.pasteall.org/pic/show.php?id=19452 Latest: http://www.pasteall.org/pic/show.php?id=19501 I also like the icons to be a bit more muted, again to avoid them grabbing attention too much with highlights. For me this is what really finishes it off, to make the interface nice calm, but maybe this is considered too dull. http://www.pasteall.org/pic/show.php?id=19500 Brecht. On Mon, Oct 24, 2011 at 2:05 PM, Brecht Van Lommel brechtvanlom...@pandora.be wrote: Updated with some changes: Before: http://www.pasteall.org/pic/show.php?id=19452 Previous: http://www.pasteall.org/pic/show.php?id=19453 Now: http://www.pasteall.org/pic/show.php?id=19477 * Area embossing back, more subtle fix it being drawn wrong with 1 pixel offset * More space in panel headers * Darker arrows on menu button * Screen splitting widget with grippers On Mon, Oct 24, 2011 at 1:21 AM, Brecht Van Lommel brechtvanlom...@pandora.be wrote: Hi all, Here's a patch with a subset of the UI changes in the cycles branch that I'd like to merge into trunk. Are there any objections to this? Before: http://www.pasteall.org/pic/show.php?id=19452 After: http://www.pasteall.org/pic/show.php?id=19453 Patch: http://www.pasteall.org/25777/diff I don't think they would need any documentation updates, it's just small things that wouldn't confuse anyone in screenshot: * Remove emboss on areas and regions * Remove button emboss * More subtle colors and gradients on buttons * Black arrows on menu button * Panel header changed look smaller * Screen splitting widgets look * Toolbar/properties expand button look Not included: * Droid sans font, was not received very well for the few days it was in trunk * Contrast reduction on icons * Auto hide scrollers (later, is unfinished) I'd still like to change the font in trunk, but it seems hard to get an agreement on this. Some tests: Lucida Grade (mac ui font, non-free): http://www.pasteall.org/pic/show.php?id=19454 Ubuntu font: http://www.pasteall.org/pic/show.php?id=19457 Droid Sans font: http://www.pasteall.org/pic/show.php?id=19458 Thanks, Brecht. ___ Bf-committers mailing list Bf-committers@blender.org http://lists.blender.org/mailman/listinfo/bf-committers
Re: [Bf-committers] UI changes from cycles branch
+1 for the http://www.pasteall.org/pic/show.php?id=19500 proposal. I like the muted icons! On Mon Oct 24 19:07:45 2011, Brecht Van Lommel wrote: Hi, Panel headers a bit darker now and increased button embossing: Before: http://www.pasteall.org/pic/show.php?id=19452 Latest: http://www.pasteall.org/pic/show.php?id=19501 I also like the icons to be a bit more muted, again to avoid them grabbing attention too much with highlights. For me this is what really finishes it off, to make the interface nice calm, but maybe this is considered too dull. http://www.pasteall.org/pic/show.php?id=19500 Brecht. On Mon, Oct 24, 2011 at 2:05 PM, Brecht Van Lommel brechtvanlom...@pandora.be wrote: Updated with some changes: Before: http://www.pasteall.org/pic/show.php?id=19452 Previous: http://www.pasteall.org/pic/show.php?id=19453 Now: http://www.pasteall.org/pic/show.php?id=19477 * Area embossing back, more subtle fix it being drawn wrong with 1 pixel offset * More space in panel headers * Darker arrows on menu button * Screen splitting widget with grippers On Mon, Oct 24, 2011 at 1:21 AM, Brecht Van Lommel brechtvanlom...@pandora.be wrote: Hi all, Here's a patch with a subset of the UI changes in the cycles branch that I'd like to merge into trunk. Are there any objections to this? Before: http://www.pasteall.org/pic/show.php?id=19452 After: http://www.pasteall.org/pic/show.php?id=19453 Patch: http://www.pasteall.org/25777/diff I don't think they would need any documentation updates, it's just small things that wouldn't confuse anyone in screenshot: * Remove emboss on areas and regions * Remove button emboss * More subtle colors and gradients on buttons * Black arrows on menu button * Panel header changed look smaller * Screen splitting widgets look * Toolbar/properties expand button look Not included: * Droid sans font, was not received very well for the few days it was in trunk * Contrast reduction on icons * Auto hide scrollers (later, is unfinished) I'd still like to change the font in trunk, but it seems hard to get an agreement on this. Some tests: Lucida Grade (mac ui font, non-free): http://www.pasteall.org/pic/show.php?id=19454 Ubuntu font: http://www.pasteall.org/pic/show.php?id=19457 Droid Sans font: http://www.pasteall.org/pic/show.php?id=19458 Thanks, Brecht. ___ Bf-committers mailing list Bf-committers@blender.org http://lists.blender.org/mailman/listinfo/bf-committers ___ Bf-committers mailing list Bf-committers@blender.org http://lists.blender.org/mailman/listinfo/bf-committers
Re: [Bf-committers] UI changes from cycles branch
Just make it a User preferences setting, with different presets like the old UI, new Cycles UI, etc. On Mon, Oct 24, 2011 at 2:45 PM, Tobias Kummer supertoi...@gmx.net wrote: +1 for the http://www.pasteall.org/pic/show.php?id=19500 proposal. I like the muted icons! On Mon Oct 24 19:07:45 2011, Brecht Van Lommel wrote: Hi, Panel headers a bit darker now and increased button embossing: Before: http://www.pasteall.org/pic/show.php?id=19452 Latest: http://www.pasteall.org/pic/show.php?id=19501 I also like the icons to be a bit more muted, again to avoid them grabbing attention too much with highlights. For me this is what really finishes it off, to make the interface nice calm, but maybe this is considered too dull. http://www.pasteall.org/pic/show.php?id=19500 Brecht. On Mon, Oct 24, 2011 at 2:05 PM, Brecht Van Lommel brechtvanlom...@pandora.be wrote: Updated with some changes: Before: http://www.pasteall.org/pic/show.php?id=19452 Previous: http://www.pasteall.org/pic/show.php?id=19453 Now: http://www.pasteall.org/pic/show.php?id=19477 * Area embossing back, more subtle fix it being drawn wrong with 1 pixel offset * More space in panel headers * Darker arrows on menu button * Screen splitting widget with grippers On Mon, Oct 24, 2011 at 1:21 AM, Brecht Van Lommel brechtvanlom...@pandora.be wrote: Hi all, Here's a patch with a subset of the UI changes in the cycles branch that I'd like to merge into trunk. Are there any objections to this? Before: http://www.pasteall.org/pic/show.php?id=19452 After: http://www.pasteall.org/pic/show.php?id=19453 Patch: http://www.pasteall.org/25777/diff I don't think they would need any documentation updates, it's just small things that wouldn't confuse anyone in screenshot: * Remove emboss on areas and regions * Remove button emboss * More subtle colors and gradients on buttons * Black arrows on menu button * Panel header changed look smaller * Screen splitting widgets look * Toolbar/properties expand button look Not included: * Droid sans font, was not received very well for the few days it was in trunk * Contrast reduction on icons * Auto hide scrollers (later, is unfinished) I'd still like to change the font in trunk, but it seems hard to get an agreement on this. Some tests: Lucida Grade (mac ui font, non-free): http://www.pasteall.org/pic/show.php?id=19454 Ubuntu font: http://www.pasteall.org/pic/show.php?id=19457 Droid Sans font: http://www.pasteall.org/pic/show.php?id=19458 Thanks, Brecht. ___ Bf-committers mailing list Bf-committers@blender.org http://lists.blender.org/mailman/listinfo/bf-committers ___ Bf-committers mailing list Bf-committers@blender.org http://lists.blender.org/mailman/listinfo/bf-committers ___ Bf-committers mailing list Bf-committers@blender.org http://lists.blender.org/mailman/listinfo/bf-committers
Re: [Bf-committers] UI changes from cycles branch
I personaly preferred the non-emboss, solid and slick one, but it is only subjective F. 2011/10/24 Brecht Van Lommel brechtvanlom...@pandora.be Hi, Panel headers a bit darker now and increased button embossing: Before: http://www.pasteall.org/pic/show.php?id=19452 Latest: http://www.pasteall.org/pic/show.php?id=19501 I also like the icons to be a bit more muted, again to avoid them grabbing attention too much with highlights. For me this is what really finishes it off, to make the interface nice calm, but maybe this is considered too dull. http://www.pasteall.org/pic/show.php?id=19500 Brecht. On Mon, Oct 24, 2011 at 2:05 PM, Brecht Van Lommel brechtvanlom...@pandora.be wrote: Updated with some changes: Before: http://www.pasteall.org/pic/show.php?id=19452 Previous: http://www.pasteall.org/pic/show.php?id=19453 Now: http://www.pasteall.org/pic/show.php?id=19477 * Area embossing back, more subtle fix it being drawn wrong with 1 pixel offset * More space in panel headers * Darker arrows on menu button * Screen splitting widget with grippers On Mon, Oct 24, 2011 at 1:21 AM, Brecht Van Lommel brechtvanlom...@pandora.be wrote: Hi all, Here's a patch with a subset of the UI changes in the cycles branch that I'd like to merge into trunk. Are there any objections to this? Before: http://www.pasteall.org/pic/show.php?id=19452 After: http://www.pasteall.org/pic/show.php?id=19453 Patch: http://www.pasteall.org/25777/diff I don't think they would need any documentation updates, it's just small things that wouldn't confuse anyone in screenshot: * Remove emboss on areas and regions * Remove button emboss * More subtle colors and gradients on buttons * Black arrows on menu button * Panel header changed look smaller * Screen splitting widgets look * Toolbar/properties expand button look Not included: * Droid sans font, was not received very well for the few days it was in trunk * Contrast reduction on icons * Auto hide scrollers (later, is unfinished) I'd still like to change the font in trunk, but it seems hard to get an agreement on this. Some tests: Lucida Grade (mac ui font, non-free): http://www.pasteall.org/pic/show.php?id=19454 Ubuntu font: http://www.pasteall.org/pic/show.php?id=19457 Droid Sans font: http://www.pasteall.org/pic/show.php?id=19458 Thanks, Brecht. ___ Bf-committers mailing list Bf-committers@blender.org http://lists.blender.org/mailman/listinfo/bf-committers -- François Tarlier www.francois-tarlier.com www.linkedin.com/in/francoistarlier ___ Bf-committers mailing list Bf-committers@blender.org http://lists.blender.org/mailman/listinfo/bf-committers
Re: [Bf-committers] UI changes from cycles branch
Hi, just another comment, what happened to the panel dividers? Before http://www.pasteall.org/pic/show.php?id=19509 After http://www.pasteall.org/pic/show.php?id=19510 On Mon, Oct 24, 2011 at 2:50 PM, François T. francoistarl...@gmail.comwrote: I personaly preferred the non-emboss, solid and slick one, but it is only subjective F. 2011/10/24 Brecht Van Lommel brechtvanlom...@pandora.be Hi, Panel headers a bit darker now and increased button embossing: Before: http://www.pasteall.org/pic/show.php?id=19452 Latest: http://www.pasteall.org/pic/show.php?id=19501 I also like the icons to be a bit more muted, again to avoid them grabbing attention too much with highlights. For me this is what really finishes it off, to make the interface nice calm, but maybe this is considered too dull. http://www.pasteall.org/pic/show.php?id=19500 Brecht. On Mon, Oct 24, 2011 at 2:05 PM, Brecht Van Lommel brechtvanlom...@pandora.be wrote: Updated with some changes: Before: http://www.pasteall.org/pic/show.php?id=19452 Previous: http://www.pasteall.org/pic/show.php?id=19453 Now: http://www.pasteall.org/pic/show.php?id=19477 * Area embossing back, more subtle fix it being drawn wrong with 1 pixel offset * More space in panel headers * Darker arrows on menu button * Screen splitting widget with grippers On Mon, Oct 24, 2011 at 1:21 AM, Brecht Van Lommel brechtvanlom...@pandora.be wrote: Hi all, Here's a patch with a subset of the UI changes in the cycles branch that I'd like to merge into trunk. Are there any objections to this? Before: http://www.pasteall.org/pic/show.php?id=19452 After: http://www.pasteall.org/pic/show.php?id=19453 Patch: http://www.pasteall.org/25777/diff I don't think they would need any documentation updates, it's just small things that wouldn't confuse anyone in screenshot: * Remove emboss on areas and regions * Remove button emboss * More subtle colors and gradients on buttons * Black arrows on menu button * Panel header changed look smaller * Screen splitting widgets look * Toolbar/properties expand button look Not included: * Droid sans font, was not received very well for the few days it was in trunk * Contrast reduction on icons * Auto hide scrollers (later, is unfinished) I'd still like to change the font in trunk, but it seems hard to get an agreement on this. Some tests: Lucida Grade (mac ui font, non-free): http://www.pasteall.org/pic/show.php?id=19454 Ubuntu font: http://www.pasteall.org/pic/show.php?id=19457 Droid Sans font: http://www.pasteall.org/pic/show.php?id=19458 Thanks, Brecht. ___ Bf-committers mailing list Bf-committers@blender.org http://lists.blender.org/mailman/listinfo/bf-committers -- François Tarlier www.francois-tarlier.com www.linkedin.com/in/francoistarlier ___ Bf-committers mailing list Bf-committers@blender.org http://lists.blender.org/mailman/listinfo/bf-committers ___ Bf-committers mailing list Bf-committers@blender.org http://lists.blender.org/mailman/listinfo/bf-committers
Re: [Bf-committers] UI changes from cycles branch
I don't think we need the space between the panels. Am 24.10.2011 21:58, schrieb Kel M: Hi, just another comment, what happened to the panel dividers? Before http://www.pasteall.org/pic/show.php?id=19509 After http://www.pasteall.org/pic/show.php?id=19510 On Mon, Oct 24, 2011 at 2:50 PM, François T.francoistarl...@gmail.comwrote: I personaly preferred the non-emboss, solid and slick one, but it is only subjective F. 2011/10/24 Brecht Van Lommelbrechtvanlom...@pandora.be Hi, Panel headers a bit darker now and increased button embossing: Before: http://www.pasteall.org/pic/show.php?id=19452 Latest: http://www.pasteall.org/pic/show.php?id=19501 I also like the icons to be a bit more muted, again to avoid them grabbing attention too much with highlights. For me this is what really finishes it off, to make the interface nice calm, but maybe this is considered too dull. http://www.pasteall.org/pic/show.php?id=19500 Brecht. On Mon, Oct 24, 2011 at 2:05 PM, Brecht Van Lommel brechtvanlom...@pandora.be wrote: Updated with some changes: Before: http://www.pasteall.org/pic/show.php?id=19452 Previous: http://www.pasteall.org/pic/show.php?id=19453 Now: http://www.pasteall.org/pic/show.php?id=19477 * Area embossing back, more subtle fix it being drawn wrong with 1 pixel offset * More space in panel headers * Darker arrows on menu button * Screen splitting widget with grippers On Mon, Oct 24, 2011 at 1:21 AM, Brecht Van Lommel brechtvanlom...@pandora.be wrote: Hi all, Here's a patch with a subset of the UI changes in the cycles branch that I'd like to merge into trunk. Are there any objections to this? Before: http://www.pasteall.org/pic/show.php?id=19452 After: http://www.pasteall.org/pic/show.php?id=19453 Patch: http://www.pasteall.org/25777/diff I don't think they would need any documentation updates, it's just small things that wouldn't confuse anyone in screenshot: * Remove emboss on areas and regions * Remove button emboss * More subtle colors and gradients on buttons * Black arrows on menu button * Panel header changed look smaller * Screen splitting widgets look * Toolbar/properties expand button look Not included: * Droid sans font, was not received very well for the few days it was in trunk * Contrast reduction on icons * Auto hide scrollers (later, is unfinished) I'd still like to change the font in trunk, but it seems hard to get an agreement on this. Some tests: Lucida Grade (mac ui font, non-free): http://www.pasteall.org/pic/show.php?id=19454 Ubuntu font: http://www.pasteall.org/pic/show.php?id=19457 Droid Sans font: http://www.pasteall.org/pic/show.php?id=19458 Thanks, Brecht. ___ Bf-committers mailing list Bf-committers@blender.org http://lists.blender.org/mailman/listinfo/bf-committers -- François Tarlier www.francois-tarlier.com www.linkedin.com/in/francoistarlier ___ Bf-committers mailing list Bf-committers@blender.org http://lists.blender.org/mailman/listinfo/bf-committers ___ Bf-committers mailing list Bf-committers@blender.org http://lists.blender.org/mailman/listinfo/bf-committers -- Thomas Dinges Blender Developer, Artist and Musician www.dingto.org ___ Bf-committers mailing list Bf-committers@blender.org http://lists.blender.org/mailman/listinfo/bf-committers
Re: [Bf-committers] UI changes from cycles branch
It just looks uncomfortable and inconsistent. They lines should at least be made the same color as the panel background. On Mon, Oct 24, 2011 at 4:05 PM, Thomas Dinges blen...@dingto.org wrote: I don't think we need the space between the panels. Am 24.10.2011 21:58, schrieb Kel M: Hi, just another comment, what happened to the panel dividers? Before http://www.pasteall.org/pic/show.php?id=19509 After http://www.pasteall.org/pic/show.php?id=19510 On Mon, Oct 24, 2011 at 2:50 PM, François T.francoistarl...@gmail.com wrote: I personaly preferred the non-emboss, solid and slick one, but it is only subjective F. 2011/10/24 Brecht Van Lommelbrechtvanlom...@pandora.be Hi, Panel headers a bit darker now and increased button embossing: Before: http://www.pasteall.org/pic/show.php?id=19452 Latest: http://www.pasteall.org/pic/show.php?id=19501 I also like the icons to be a bit more muted, again to avoid them grabbing attention too much with highlights. For me this is what really finishes it off, to make the interface nice calm, but maybe this is considered too dull. http://www.pasteall.org/pic/show.php?id=19500 Brecht. On Mon, Oct 24, 2011 at 2:05 PM, Brecht Van Lommel brechtvanlom...@pandora.be wrote: Updated with some changes: Before: http://www.pasteall.org/pic/show.php?id=19452 Previous: http://www.pasteall.org/pic/show.php?id=19453 Now: http://www.pasteall.org/pic/show.php?id=19477 * Area embossing back, more subtle fix it being drawn wrong with 1 pixel offset * More space in panel headers * Darker arrows on menu button * Screen splitting widget with grippers On Mon, Oct 24, 2011 at 1:21 AM, Brecht Van Lommel brechtvanlom...@pandora.be wrote: Hi all, Here's a patch with a subset of the UI changes in the cycles branch that I'd like to merge into trunk. Are there any objections to this? Before: http://www.pasteall.org/pic/show.php?id=19452 After: http://www.pasteall.org/pic/show.php?id=19453 Patch: http://www.pasteall.org/25777/diff I don't think they would need any documentation updates, it's just small things that wouldn't confuse anyone in screenshot: * Remove emboss on areas and regions * Remove button emboss * More subtle colors and gradients on buttons * Black arrows on menu button * Panel header changed look smaller * Screen splitting widgets look * Toolbar/properties expand button look Not included: * Droid sans font, was not received very well for the few days it was in trunk * Contrast reduction on icons * Auto hide scrollers (later, is unfinished) I'd still like to change the font in trunk, but it seems hard to get an agreement on this. Some tests: Lucida Grade (mac ui font, non-free): http://www.pasteall.org/pic/show.php?id=19454 Ubuntu font: http://www.pasteall.org/pic/show.php?id=19457 Droid Sans font: http://www.pasteall.org/pic/show.php?id=19458 Thanks, Brecht. ___ Bf-committers mailing list Bf-committers@blender.org http://lists.blender.org/mailman/listinfo/bf-committers -- François Tarlier www.francois-tarlier.com www.linkedin.com/in/francoistarlier ___ Bf-committers mailing list Bf-committers@blender.org http://lists.blender.org/mailman/listinfo/bf-committers ___ Bf-committers mailing list Bf-committers@blender.org http://lists.blender.org/mailman/listinfo/bf-committers -- Thomas Dinges Blender Developer, Artist and Musician www.dingto.org ___ Bf-committers mailing list Bf-committers@blender.org http://lists.blender.org/mailman/listinfo/bf-committers ___ Bf-committers mailing list Bf-committers@blender.org http://lists.blender.org/mailman/listinfo/bf-committers
Re: [Bf-committers] UI changes from cycles branch
Well, since we don't need any space between panels, let's go one step further and let's merge all panels into one big panel. That would be great. On 24 October 2011 22:23, Kel M kelvinsh...@gmail.com wrote: It just looks uncomfortable and inconsistent. They lines should at least be made the same color as the panel background. On Mon, Oct 24, 2011 at 4:05 PM, Thomas Dinges blen...@dingto.org wrote: I don't think we need the space between the panels. Am 24.10.2011 21:58, schrieb Kel M: Hi, just another comment, what happened to the panel dividers? Before http://www.pasteall.org/pic/show.php?id=19509 After http://www.pasteall.org/pic/show.php?id=19510 On Mon, Oct 24, 2011 at 2:50 PM, François T.francoistarl...@gmail.com wrote: I personaly preferred the non-emboss, solid and slick one, but it is only subjective F. 2011/10/24 Brecht Van Lommelbrechtvanlom...@pandora.be Hi, Panel headers a bit darker now and increased button embossing: Before: http://www.pasteall.org/pic/show.php?id=19452 Latest: http://www.pasteall.org/pic/show.php?id=19501 I also like the icons to be a bit more muted, again to avoid them grabbing attention too much with highlights. For me this is what really finishes it off, to make the interface nice calm, but maybe this is considered too dull. http://www.pasteall.org/pic/show.php?id=19500 Brecht. On Mon, Oct 24, 2011 at 2:05 PM, Brecht Van Lommel brechtvanlom...@pandora.be wrote: Updated with some changes: Before: http://www.pasteall.org/pic/show.php?id=19452 Previous: http://www.pasteall.org/pic/show.php?id=19453 Now: http://www.pasteall.org/pic/show.php?id=19477 * Area embossing back, more subtle fix it being drawn wrong with 1 pixel offset * More space in panel headers * Darker arrows on menu button * Screen splitting widget with grippers On Mon, Oct 24, 2011 at 1:21 AM, Brecht Van Lommel brechtvanlom...@pandora.be wrote: Hi all, Here's a patch with a subset of the UI changes in the cycles branch that I'd like to merge into trunk. Are there any objections to this? Before: http://www.pasteall.org/pic/show.php?id=19452 After: http://www.pasteall.org/pic/show.php?id=19453 Patch: http://www.pasteall.org/25777/diff I don't think they would need any documentation updates, it's just small things that wouldn't confuse anyone in screenshot: * Remove emboss on areas and regions * Remove button emboss * More subtle colors and gradients on buttons * Black arrows on menu button * Panel header changed look smaller * Screen splitting widgets look * Toolbar/properties expand button look Not included: * Droid sans font, was not received very well for the few days it was in trunk * Contrast reduction on icons * Auto hide scrollers (later, is unfinished) I'd still like to change the font in trunk, but it seems hard to get an agreement on this. Some tests: Lucida Grade (mac ui font, non-free): http://www.pasteall.org/pic/show.php?id=19454 Ubuntu font: http://www.pasteall.org/pic/show.php?id=19457 Droid Sans font: http://www.pasteall.org/pic/show.php?id=19458 Thanks, Brecht. ___ Bf-committers mailing list Bf-committers@blender.org http://lists.blender.org/mailman/listinfo/bf-committers -- François Tarlier www.francois-tarlier.com www.linkedin.com/in/francoistarlier ___ Bf-committers mailing list Bf-committers@blender.org http://lists.blender.org/mailman/listinfo/bf-committers ___ Bf-committers mailing list Bf-committers@blender.org http://lists.blender.org/mailman/listinfo/bf-committers -- Thomas Dinges Blender Developer, Artist and Musician www.dingto.org ___ Bf-committers mailing list Bf-committers@blender.org http://lists.blender.org/mailman/listinfo/bf-committers ___ Bf-committers mailing list Bf-committers@blender.org http://lists.blender.org/mailman/listinfo/bf-committers ___ Bf-committers mailing list Bf-committers@blender.org http://lists.blender.org/mailman/listinfo/bf-committers
Re: [Bf-committers] UI changes from cycles branch
On Mon, Oct 24, 2011 at 10:23 PM, Kel M kelvinsh...@gmail.com wrote: It just looks uncomfortable and inconsistent. They lines should at least be made the same color as the panel background. The region embossing and panel divider should be different, otherwise it looks like the editor is split into multiple regions. Also tried to 1/2/3/4 pixel space between panels but this darker line just looks better I think, especially for a stack of collapsed panels. On Mon, Oct 24, 2011 at 10:29 PM, Damir Prebeg blend.fact...@gmail.com wrote: Well, since we don't need any space between panels, let's go one step further and let's merge all panels into one big panel. That would be great. I don't understand this, why does there need to be space between collapsed panels? Brecht. ___ Bf-committers mailing list Bf-committers@blender.org http://lists.blender.org/mailman/listinfo/bf-committers
Re: [Bf-committers] UI changes from cycles branch
Maybe it's just me but this feels like a serious downgrade. I really admired the way the blender 2.5/6x UI looked in that it had a kind of sheen and niceness that you don't see in many applications. A friend of mine described it like you can tell the Blender developers spent a lot of time thinking about making the 2.5X series pretty, it's almost like a throwback to a demoscene application in that way. I agree... it did feel that way. But a lot of this sheen now seems gone in these revisions, largely because of the removal of embossing and the muting of the icons... it feels a bit sad to me, honestly! Brecht Van Lommel brechtvanlom...@pandora.be writes: Hi, Panel headers a bit darker now and increased button embossing: Before: http://www.pasteall.org/pic/show.php?id=19452 Latest: http://www.pasteall.org/pic/show.php?id=19501 I also like the icons to be a bit more muted, again to avoid them grabbing attention too much with highlights. For me this is what really finishes it off, to make the interface nice calm, but maybe this is considered too dull. http://www.pasteall.org/pic/show.php?id=19500 Brecht. On Mon, Oct 24, 2011 at 2:05 PM, Brecht Van Lommel brechtvanlom...@pandora.be wrote: Updated with some changes: Before: http://www.pasteall.org/pic/show.php?id=19452 Previous: http://www.pasteall.org/pic/show.php?id=19453 Now: http://www.pasteall.org/pic/show.php?id=19477 * Area embossing back, more subtle fix it being drawn wrong with 1 pixel offset * More space in panel headers * Darker arrows on menu button * Screen splitting widget with grippers On Mon, Oct 24, 2011 at 1:21 AM, Brecht Van Lommel brechtvanlom...@pandora.be wrote: Hi all, Here's a patch with a subset of the UI changes in the cycles branch that I'd like to merge into trunk. Are there any objections to this? Before: http://www.pasteall.org/pic/show.php?id=19452 After: http://www.pasteall.org/pic/show.php?id=19453 Patch: http://www.pasteall.org/25777/diff I don't think they would need any documentation updates, it's just small things that wouldn't confuse anyone in screenshot: * Remove emboss on areas and regions * Remove button emboss * More subtle colors and gradients on buttons * Black arrows on menu button * Panel header changed look smaller * Screen splitting widgets look * Toolbar/properties expand button look Not included: * Droid sans font, was not received very well for the few days it was in trunk * Contrast reduction on icons * Auto hide scrollers (later, is unfinished) I'd still like to change the font in trunk, but it seems hard to get an agreement on this. Some tests: Lucida Grade (mac ui font, non-free): http://www.pasteall.org/pic/show.php?id=19454 Ubuntu font: http://www.pasteall.org/pic/show.php?id=19457 Droid Sans font: http://www.pasteall.org/pic/show.php?id=19458 Thanks, Brecht. ___ Bf-committers mailing list Bf-committers@blender.org http://lists.blender.org/mailman/listinfo/bf-committers ___ Bf-committers mailing list Bf-committers@blender.org http://lists.blender.org/mailman/listinfo/bf-committers
Re: [Bf-committers] UI changes from cycles branch
I do like the more compactness though. Christopher Allan Webber cweb...@dustycloud.org writes: Maybe it's just me but this feels like a serious downgrade. I really admired the way the blender 2.5/6x UI looked in that it had a kind of sheen and niceness that you don't see in many applications. A friend of mine described it like you can tell the Blender developers spent a lot of time thinking about making the 2.5X series pretty, it's almost like a throwback to a demoscene application in that way. I agree... it did feel that way. But a lot of this sheen now seems gone in these revisions, largely because of the removal of embossing and the muting of the icons... it feels a bit sad to me, honestly! Brecht Van Lommel brechtvanlom...@pandora.be writes: Hi, Panel headers a bit darker now and increased button embossing: Before: http://www.pasteall.org/pic/show.php?id=19452 Latest: http://www.pasteall.org/pic/show.php?id=19501 I also like the icons to be a bit more muted, again to avoid them grabbing attention too much with highlights. For me this is what really finishes it off, to make the interface nice calm, but maybe this is considered too dull. http://www.pasteall.org/pic/show.php?id=19500 Brecht. On Mon, Oct 24, 2011 at 2:05 PM, Brecht Van Lommel brechtvanlom...@pandora.be wrote: Updated with some changes: Before: http://www.pasteall.org/pic/show.php?id=19452 Previous: http://www.pasteall.org/pic/show.php?id=19453 Now: http://www.pasteall.org/pic/show.php?id=19477 * Area embossing back, more subtle fix it being drawn wrong with 1 pixel offset * More space in panel headers * Darker arrows on menu button * Screen splitting widget with grippers On Mon, Oct 24, 2011 at 1:21 AM, Brecht Van Lommel brechtvanlom...@pandora.be wrote: Hi all, Here's a patch with a subset of the UI changes in the cycles branch that I'd like to merge into trunk. Are there any objections to this? Before: http://www.pasteall.org/pic/show.php?id=19452 After: http://www.pasteall.org/pic/show.php?id=19453 Patch: http://www.pasteall.org/25777/diff I don't think they would need any documentation updates, it's just small things that wouldn't confuse anyone in screenshot: * Remove emboss on areas and regions * Remove button emboss * More subtle colors and gradients on buttons * Black arrows on menu button * Panel header changed look smaller * Screen splitting widgets look * Toolbar/properties expand button look Not included: * Droid sans font, was not received very well for the few days it was in trunk * Contrast reduction on icons * Auto hide scrollers (later, is unfinished) I'd still like to change the font in trunk, but it seems hard to get an agreement on this. Some tests: Lucida Grade (mac ui font, non-free): http://www.pasteall.org/pic/show.php?id=19454 Ubuntu font: http://www.pasteall.org/pic/show.php?id=19457 Droid Sans font: http://www.pasteall.org/pic/show.php?id=19458 Thanks, Brecht. ___ Bf-committers mailing list Bf-committers@blender.org http://lists.blender.org/mailman/listinfo/bf-committers ___ Bf-committers mailing list Bf-committers@blender.org http://lists.blender.org/mailman/listinfo/bf-committers ___ Bf-committers mailing list Bf-committers@blender.org http://lists.blender.org/mailman/listinfo/bf-committers
Re: [Bf-committers] UI changes from cycles branch
@Thomas: I'm serious. Ironic, but serious. @Brecht: Well, If for nothing then for aesthetics. Without a gap, panels are looking merged (that's why I propose to create one big panel). To be honest, I would like to see old borders around panels, Non transparent BG and shadows behind panels, but I'm afraid I'm asking too much. On Mon, Oct 24, 2011 at 10:29 PM, Damir Prebeg blend.fact...@gmail.com wrote: Well, since we don't need any space between panels, let's go one step further and let's merge all panels into one big panel. That would be great. I don't understand this, why does there need to be space between collapsed panels? Brecht. ___ Bf-committers mailing list Bf-committers@blender.org http://lists.blender.org/mailman/listinfo/bf-committers ___ Bf-committers mailing list Bf-committers@blender.org http://lists.blender.org/mailman/listinfo/bf-committers
Re: [Bf-committers] UI changes from cycles branch
Panel headers a bit darker now and increased button embossing: Before: http://www.pasteall.org/pic/show.php?id=19452 Latest: http://www.pasteall.org/pic/show.php?id=19501 +1 I also like the icons to be a bit more muted, again to avoid them grabbing attention too much with highlights. For me this is what really finishes it off, to make the interface nice calm, but maybe this is considered too dull. http://www.pasteall.org/pic/show.php?id=19500 Brecht. -1 at least not for default ___ Bf-committers mailing list Bf-committers@blender.org http://lists.blender.org/mailman/listinfo/bf-committers
Re: [Bf-committers] UI changes from cycles branch
Hi all, On muted icons: -1 Having just moved to OSX 10.7.3 Lion I have experienced a similar muting of icons in the Finder application as well as others. This is quite annoying as the visual colour cues from the icons are now missing. Unless you have considerable spatial memory its hard to find the icon you want. For expert blender users muting the icons is probably not a concern. For those learning and intermittent users the visual colour/shape combination is much easier to use/remember. Also very sad about Lion...the only reason I upgraded was for OpenCL 1.1 (ie Cycles) ... to find that my HD4850 driver is only supported to OpenCL1.0 spec :-((( Mike. On 11/10/25 3:37, Brecht Van Lommel wrote: Hi, Panel headers a bit darker now and increased button embossing: Before: http://www.pasteall.org/pic/show.php?id=19452 Latest: http://www.pasteall.org/pic/show.php?id=19501 I also like the icons to be a bit more muted, again to avoid them grabbing attention too much with highlights. For me this is what really finishes it off, to make the interface nice calm, but maybe this is considered too dull. http://www.pasteall.org/pic/show.php?id=19500 Brecht. ___ Bf-committers mailing list Bf-committers@blender.org http://lists.blender.org/mailman/listinfo/bf-committers
Re: [Bf-committers] UI changes from cycles branch
On Mon, Oct 24, 2011 at 4:39 PM, Brecht Van Lommel brechtvanlom...@pandora.be wrote: On Mon, Oct 24, 2011 at 10:23 PM, Kel M kelvinsh...@gmail.com wrote: It just looks uncomfortable and inconsistent. They lines should at least be made the same color as the panel background. The region embossing and panel divider should be different, otherwise it looks like the editor is split into multiple regions. Also tried to 1/2/3/4 pixel space between panels but this darker line just looks better I think, especially for a stack of collapsed panels. I think you're misunderstanding me. I'm not really partial to the etching dividers, I like the way it was in Cycles, before the dividers got crunched together. After the old Blender UI, but before these new changes. http://www.pasteall.org/pic/show.php?id=19509 On Mon, Oct 24, 2011 at 10:29 PM, Damir Prebeg blend.fact...@gmail.com wrote: Well, since we don't need any space between panels, let's go one step further and let's merge all panels into one big panel. That would be great. I don't understand this, why does there need to be space between collapsed panels? Brecht. ___ Bf-committers mailing list Bf-committers@blender.org http://lists.blender.org/mailman/listinfo/bf-committers ___ Bf-committers mailing list Bf-committers@blender.org http://lists.blender.org/mailman/listinfo/bf-committers
[Bf-committers] UI changes from cycles branch
Hi all, Here's a patch with a subset of the UI changes in the cycles branch that I'd like to merge into trunk. Are there any objections to this? Before: http://www.pasteall.org/pic/show.php?id=19452 After: http://www.pasteall.org/pic/show.php?id=19453 Patch: http://www.pasteall.org/25777/diff I don't think they would need any documentation updates, it's just small things that wouldn't confuse anyone in screenshot: * Remove emboss on areas and regions * Remove button emboss * More subtle colors and gradients on buttons * Black arrows on menu button * Panel header changed look smaller * Screen splitting widgets look * Toolbar/properties expand button look Not included: * Droid sans font, was not received very well for the few days it was in trunk * Contrast reduction on icons * Auto hide scrollers (later, is unfinished) I'd still like to change the font in trunk, but it seems hard to get an agreement on this. Some tests: Lucida Grade (mac ui font, non-free): http://www.pasteall.org/pic/show.php?id=19454 Ubuntu font: http://www.pasteall.org/pic/show.php?id=19457 Droid Sans font: http://www.pasteall.org/pic/show.php?id=19458 Thanks, Brecht. ___ Bf-committers mailing list Bf-committers@blender.org http://lists.blender.org/mailman/listinfo/bf-committers
Re: [Bf-committers] UI changes from cycles branch
On Mon, Oct 24, 2011 at 10:21 AM, Brecht Van Lommel brechtvanlom...@pandora.be wrote: Hi all, Here's a patch with a subset of the UI changes in the cycles branch that I'd like to merge into trunk. Are there any objections to this? I'd personally like to hear the rationale for these rather than just saying here's the patch. Some of it seems a bit more like a matter of taste too, rather than something that's designed for a wide audience, so I'm curious to hear the reasoning. I don't think they would need any documentation updates, it's just small things that wouldn't confuse anyone in screenshot: * Remove emboss on areas and regions * Remove button emboss * More subtle colors and gradients on buttons Most of these I don't think it would be a problem to make the embossing a bit more subtle, but I'm not keen on removing it all entirely. Even just a subtle hint of shape and shading really helps to distinguish the buttons from everything else - not just in the literal sense of give it an affordance 'this is a button, you can click on it' but mainly for some visual difference between the rest of everything else on screen. When everything is flat with single pixel outlines (not just buttons, but also other dividers, grids, scrollers, lines in other editors like the animation/timeline editors), it loses a sense of visual hierarchy and rhythm - it all tends to merge into one soup of lines and flat shaded areas, and makes it harder to find things quickly in the UI. * Black arrows on menu button -1, Way too low contrast, there's almost no point in having them there. Makes them look like other dark UI widgets like radio buttons, which is not good. * Panel header changed look smaller Seems ok, but I would give it an extra pixel or so of padding both above and below, it's quite cramped and loses its sense of importance in wayfinding (becomes much more like just another button). * Screen splitting widgets look Not a fan of how it is now, but perhaps if it was the dark triangle with a hint of the 'gripper' lines blended on top it would work better. * Toolbar/properties expand button look Looks great I'd still like to change the font in trunk, but it seems hard to get an agreement on this. Some tests: Again, I'd like to hear the rationale - I think the font in trunk right now is very good. If it's to make things smaller and more condensed, be wary of cutting off one's nose to spite one's face - you *need* whitespace in design, it's not just wasted areas where more can be crammed in. cheers Matt ___ Bf-committers mailing list Bf-committers@blender.org http://lists.blender.org/mailman/listinfo/bf-committers
Re: [Bf-committers] UI changes from cycles branch
Hi all, as a user not a dev., imo * Remove emboss on areas and regions * Remove button emboss removing emboss will revert blender to the 2.4x looks, which i think is very old i don't see why you have to change the current * More subtle colors and gradients on buttons yes it's better * Black arrows on menu button it's hard to see, and hidden for newbies * Panel header changed look smaller it's already small n big screens * Screen splitting widgets look * Toolbar/properties expand button look definitely better Not included: * Droid sans font, was not received very well for the few days it was in trunk * Contrast reduction on icons * Auto hide scrollers (later, is unfinished) the provided fonts are narrower, hard to see and more blurry. ___ Bf-committers mailing list Bf-committers@blender.org http://lists.blender.org/mailman/listinfo/bf-committers
Re: [Bf-committers] UI changes from cycles branch
Matt Ebb +1 ___ Bf-committers mailing list Bf-committers@blender.org http://lists.blender.org/mailman/listinfo/bf-committers
Re: [Bf-committers] UI changes from cycles branch
I agree with the comments about the black arrows, and the buttons looking less like buttons. Love the new side panel expanders, but the splitting corners are too hard too see, i agree it might be better with some gripper lines. ___ Bf-committers mailing list Bf-committers@blender.org http://lists.blender.org/mailman/listinfo/bf-committers
Re: [Bf-committers] UI changes from cycles branch
Even though I like it better with your modification, I do agree with Matt this is just a design subjectif point of view. not sure if it MUST be changed or not. 2011/10/24 Αντώνης Ρυακιωτάκης kal...@gmail.com Matt Ebb +1 ___ Bf-committers mailing list Bf-committers@blender.org http://lists.blender.org/mailman/listinfo/bf-committers -- François Tarlier www.francois-tarlier.com www.linkedin.com/in/francoistarlier ___ Bf-committers mailing list Bf-committers@blender.org http://lists.blender.org/mailman/listinfo/bf-committers
Re: [Bf-committers] UI changes from cycles branch
When i started with blender 2.48, for a month at least i wasn't able to distinguish when a button was pressed or not because of the flat and shadeless style, so -1 for that. +1 to give a panel title background a little background color difference. Arrows in combo boxes are useful for beginners, -1 for the change I don't have any special inclination for the other changes. cheers. 2011/10/23 François T. francoistarl...@gmail.com Even though I like it better with your modification, I do agree with Matt this is just a design subjectif point of view. not sure if it MUST be changed or not. 2011/10/24 Αντώνης Ρυακιωτάκης kal...@gmail.com Matt Ebb +1 ___ Bf-committers mailing list Bf-committers@blender.org http://lists.blender.org/mailman/listinfo/bf-committers -- François Tarlier www.francois-tarlier.com www.linkedin.com/in/francoistarlier ___ Bf-committers mailing list Bf-committers@blender.org http://lists.blender.org/mailman/listinfo/bf-committers ___ Bf-committers mailing list Bf-committers@blender.org http://lists.blender.org/mailman/listinfo/bf-committers
Re: [Bf-committers] UI changes from cycles branch
Hi, On Mon, Oct 24, 2011 at 1:39 AM, Matt Ebb m...@mke3.net wrote: I'd personally like to hear the rationale for these rather than just saying here's the patch. Some of it seems a bit more like a matter of taste too, rather than something that's designed for a wide audience, so I'm curious to hear the reasoning. Alright, I already discussed this with a few people, so forgot that it might need more explanation :) * Remove emboss on areas and regions The embossing distracts from the buttons and text in the actual region. There wasn't any embossing around areas (mistakenly mentioned that), only black lines. It's around regions only, and there it doesn't seem to help much, because the regions are in a different color from the main region anyway? * Remove button emboss * More subtle colors and gradients on buttons For me this helps a lot in making the buttons more readable. Most user interfaces have only sparsely distributed buttons, but in blender we have many buttons, and I think at a certain point embossing and gradients just make it harder to actually read the text in them. Buttons with more embossing make a clear distinction with e.g. the 3d view or timeline, but I think they just take away attention too much. Most user interfaces have most buttons in the same color and nearly the same color as the background. In Blender this is not the case, and adding embossing doesn't seem needed. * Black arrows on menu button -1, Way too low contrast, there's almost no point in having them there. Makes them look like other dark UI widgets like radio buttons, which is not good. For me the arrows are quite visible but they could be made darker still. I think that if you look at the buttons, you see the arrows, but if you're scanning over buttons they can be skipped over. I think this is a good thing, for example in the 3d view header, there's a few of those in a row. The white arrows distract from the white text/icons and it's harder to scan for the right button. * Panel header changed look smaller The panel header with a single line makes it more difficult to see where one panel ends and the other begins, so I made the entire header darker. There is no longer space between the panels when they are collapsed, but otherwise the header has the same size. They could be made a bit bigger but don't feel cramped to me, maybe they would on a bigger screen. * Screen splitting widgets look Not a fan of how it is now, but perhaps if it was the dark triangle with a hint of the 'gripper' lines blended on top it would work better. Ok, I can try to add some subtle gripper lines. * Toolbar/properties expand button look Guess this one was obvious, unconnected (+) buttons are confusing. I'd still like to change the font in trunk, but it seems hard to get an agreement on this. Some tests: Again, I'd like to hear the rationale - I think the font in trunk right now is very good. If it's to make things smaller and more condensed, be wary of cutting off one's nose to spite one's face - you *need* whitespace in design, it's not just wasted areas where more can be crammed in. I don't particularly care about the text being smaller, any gains there are very minor. I just think the current font is hard to read at this size, too 'smudgy', and the shapes of words aren't very distinctive. My impression is that there are fonts that were designed to work better at this font size. Thanks, Brecht. ___ Bf-committers mailing list Bf-committers@blender.org http://lists.blender.org/mailman/listinfo/bf-committers
Re: [Bf-committers] UI changes from cycles branch
Hi, The only two things I care about are the button shading and the font. I don't like the idea of removing the button shading, I love the shading, and I don't think just drawing rounded boxes and passing them off as buttons looks good. However, I don't feel very strongly about this, as I have been using Cycles for a while, and only noticed the flat buttons about a week ago, and can always change it in the User Prefs. On the font front however, I really don't think you should change the font. -10 on Droid Sans. Maybe -1 on Mac font, and -0.5 Ubuntu font. I like the Ubuntu font when it's big, but I just don't think it belongs in Blender, especially at that size. The mac font is just ugly, though that's just my personal opinion. Oh, and I love the new Texture icons and the gray subpanel divider boxes! On Sun, Oct 23, 2011 at 9:29 PM, Brecht Van Lommel brechtvanlom...@pandora.be wrote: Hi, On Mon, Oct 24, 2011 at 1:39 AM, Matt Ebb m...@mke3.net wrote: I'd personally like to hear the rationale for these rather than just saying here's the patch. Some of it seems a bit more like a matter of taste too, rather than something that's designed for a wide audience, so I'm curious to hear the reasoning. Alright, I already discussed this with a few people, so forgot that it might need more explanation :) * Remove emboss on areas and regions The embossing distracts from the buttons and text in the actual region. There wasn't any embossing around areas (mistakenly mentioned that), only black lines. It's around regions only, and there it doesn't seem to help much, because the regions are in a different color from the main region anyway? * Remove button emboss * More subtle colors and gradients on buttons For me this helps a lot in making the buttons more readable. Most user interfaces have only sparsely distributed buttons, but in blender we have many buttons, and I think at a certain point embossing and gradients just make it harder to actually read the text in them. Buttons with more embossing make a clear distinction with e.g. the 3d view or timeline, but I think they just take away attention too much. Most user interfaces have most buttons in the same color and nearly the same color as the background. In Blender this is not the case, and adding embossing doesn't seem needed. * Black arrows on menu button -1, Way too low contrast, there's almost no point in having them there. Makes them look like other dark UI widgets like radio buttons, which is not good. For me the arrows are quite visible but they could be made darker still. I think that if you look at the buttons, you see the arrows, but if you're scanning over buttons they can be skipped over. I think this is a good thing, for example in the 3d view header, there's a few of those in a row. The white arrows distract from the white text/icons and it's harder to scan for the right button. * Panel header changed look smaller The panel header with a single line makes it more difficult to see where one panel ends and the other begins, so I made the entire header darker. There is no longer space between the panels when they are collapsed, but otherwise the header has the same size. They could be made a bit bigger but don't feel cramped to me, maybe they would on a bigger screen. * Screen splitting widgets look Not a fan of how it is now, but perhaps if it was the dark triangle with a hint of the 'gripper' lines blended on top it would work better. Ok, I can try to add some subtle gripper lines. * Toolbar/properties expand button look Guess this one was obvious, unconnected (+) buttons are confusing. I'd still like to change the font in trunk, but it seems hard to get an agreement on this. Some tests: Again, I'd like to hear the rationale - I think the font in trunk right now is very good. If it's to make things smaller and more condensed, be wary of cutting off one's nose to spite one's face - you *need* whitespace in design, it's not just wasted areas where more can be crammed in. I don't particularly care about the text being smaller, any gains there are very minor. I just think the current font is hard to read at this size, too 'smudgy', and the shapes of words aren't very distinctive. My impression is that there are fonts that were designed to work better at this font size. Thanks, Brecht. ___ Bf-committers mailing list Bf-committers@blender.org http://lists.blender.org/mailman/listinfo/bf-committers ___ Bf-committers mailing list Bf-committers@blender.org http://lists.blender.org/mailman/listinfo/bf-committers
Re: [Bf-committers] UI changes from cycles branch
Can we start a new thread discussing the design constraints on the default typeface perhaps? With respect, TJS On Oct 23, 2011 4:39 PM, Matt Ebb m...@mke3.net wrote: On Mon, Oct 24, 2011 at 10:21 AM, Brecht Van Lommel brechtvanlom...@pandora.be wrote: Hi all, Here's a patch with a subset of the UI changes in the cycles branch that I'd like to merge into trunk. Are there any objections to this? I'd personally like to hear the rationale for these rather than just saying here's the patch. Some of it seems a bit more like a matter of taste too, rather than something that's designed for a wide audience, so I'm curious to hear the reasoning. I don't think they would need any documentation updates, it's just small things that wouldn't confuse anyone in screenshot: * Remove emboss on areas and regions * Remove button emboss * More subtle colors and gradients on buttons Most of these I don't think it would be a problem to make the embossing a bit more subtle, but I'm not keen on removing it all entirely. Even just a subtle hint of shape and shading really helps to distinguish the buttons from everything else - not just in the literal sense of give it an affordance 'this is a button, you can click on it' but mainly for some visual difference between the rest of everything else on screen. When everything is flat with single pixel outlines (not just buttons, but also other dividers, grids, scrollers, lines in other editors like the animation/timeline editors), it loses a sense of visual hierarchy and rhythm - it all tends to merge into one soup of lines and flat shaded areas, and makes it harder to find things quickly in the UI. * Black arrows on menu button -1, Way too low contrast, there's almost no point in having them there. Makes them look like other dark UI widgets like radio buttons, which is not good. * Panel header changed look smaller Seems ok, but I would give it an extra pixel or so of padding both above and below, it's quite cramped and loses its sense of importance in wayfinding (becomes much more like just another button). * Screen splitting widgets look Not a fan of how it is now, but perhaps if it was the dark triangle with a hint of the 'gripper' lines blended on top it would work better. * Toolbar/properties expand button look Looks great I'd still like to change the font in trunk, but it seems hard to get an agreement on this. Some tests: Again, I'd like to hear the rationale - I think the font in trunk right now is very good. If it's to make things smaller and more condensed, be wary of cutting off one's nose to spite one's face - you *need* whitespace in design, it's not just wasted areas where more can be crammed in. cheers Matt ___ Bf-committers mailing list Bf-committers@blender.org http://lists.blender.org/mailman/listinfo/bf-committers ___ Bf-committers mailing list Bf-committers@blender.org http://lists.blender.org/mailman/listinfo/bf-committers
Re: [Bf-committers] UI changes from cycles branch
Hi, I fully agree with Brechts changes and give +1 for them as Py UI Module Owner and member of the Interface Look team! I would also not necessarily change the screen splitting widget, I think it's way better in the Cycles branch now, compared to trunk. Removing the white arrows in menus, making them darker, helps indeed a lot while scanning over buttons as well. Regards, Thomas Am 24.10.2011 03:29, schrieb Brecht Van Lommel: Hi, On Mon, Oct 24, 2011 at 1:39 AM, Matt Ebbm...@mke3.net wrote: I'd personally like to hear the rationale for these rather than just saying here's the patch. Some of it seems a bit more like a matter of taste too, rather than something that's designed for a wide audience, so I'm curious to hear the reasoning. Alright, I already discussed this with a few people, so forgot that it might need more explanation :) * Remove emboss on areas and regions The embossing distracts from the buttons and text in the actual region. There wasn't any embossing around areas (mistakenly mentioned that), only black lines. It's around regions only, and there it doesn't seem to help much, because the regions are in a different color from the main region anyway? * Remove button emboss * More subtle colors and gradients on buttons For me this helps a lot in making the buttons more readable. Most user interfaces have only sparsely distributed buttons, but in blender we have many buttons, and I think at a certain point embossing and gradients just make it harder to actually read the text in them. Buttons with more embossing make a clear distinction with e.g. the 3d view or timeline, but I think they just take away attention too much. Most user interfaces have most buttons in the same color and nearly the same color as the background. In Blender this is not the case, and adding embossing doesn't seem needed. * Black arrows on menu button -1, Way too low contrast, there's almost no point in having them there. Makes them look like other dark UI widgets like radio buttons, which is not good. For me the arrows are quite visible but they could be made darker still. I think that if you look at the buttons, you see the arrows, but if you're scanning over buttons they can be skipped over. I think this is a good thing, for example in the 3d view header, there's a few of those in a row. The white arrows distract from the white text/icons and it's harder to scan for the right button. * Panel header changed look smaller The panel header with a single line makes it more difficult to see where one panel ends and the other begins, so I made the entire header darker. There is no longer space between the panels when they are collapsed, but otherwise the header has the same size. They could be made a bit bigger but don't feel cramped to me, maybe they would on a bigger screen. * Screen splitting widgets look Not a fan of how it is now, but perhaps if it was the dark triangle with a hint of the 'gripper' lines blended on top it would work better. Ok, I can try to add some subtle gripper lines. * Toolbar/properties expand button look Guess this one was obvious, unconnected (+) buttons are confusing. I'd still like to change the font in trunk, but it seems hard to get an agreement on this. Some tests: Again, I'd like to hear the rationale - I think the font in trunk right now is very good. If it's to make things smaller and more condensed, be wary of cutting off one's nose to spite one's face - you *need* whitespace in design, it's not just wasted areas where more can be crammed in. I don't particularly care about the text being smaller, any gains there are very minor. I just think the current font is hard to read at this size, too 'smudgy', and the shapes of words aren't very distinctive. My impression is that there are fonts that were designed to work better at this font size. Thanks, Brecht. ___ Bf-committers mailing list Bf-committers@blender.org http://lists.blender.org/mailman/listinfo/bf-committers -- Thomas Dinges Blender Developer, Artist and Musician www.dingto.org ___ Bf-committers mailing list Bf-committers@blender.org http://lists.blender.org/mailman/listinfo/bf-committers
Re: [Bf-committers] UI changes from cycles branch
I think it's okay to discuss button shading a bit though, but apart from that, the changes are pretty much straight forward and should go to trunk for sure. :) Again, big +1 for this! Am 24.10.2011 06:01, schrieb Thomas Dinges: Hi, I fully agree with Brechts changes and give +1 for them as Py UI Module Owner and member of the Interface Look team! I would also not necessarily change the screen splitting widget, I think it's way better in the Cycles branch now, compared to trunk. Removing the white arrows in menus, making them darker, helps indeed a lot while scanning over buttons as well. Regards, Thomas Am 24.10.2011 03:29, schrieb Brecht Van Lommel: Hi, On Mon, Oct 24, 2011 at 1:39 AM, Matt Ebbm...@mke3.net wrote: I'd personally like to hear the rationale for these rather than just saying here's the patch. Some of it seems a bit more like a matter of taste too, rather than something that's designed for a wide audience, so I'm curious to hear the reasoning. Alright, I already discussed this with a few people, so forgot that it might need more explanation :) * Remove emboss on areas and regions The embossing distracts from the buttons and text in the actual region. There wasn't any embossing around areas (mistakenly mentioned that), only black lines. It's around regions only, and there it doesn't seem to help much, because the regions are in a different color from the main region anyway? * Remove button emboss * More subtle colors and gradients on buttons For me this helps a lot in making the buttons more readable. Most user interfaces have only sparsely distributed buttons, but in blender we have many buttons, and I think at a certain point embossing and gradients just make it harder to actually read the text in them. Buttons with more embossing make a clear distinction with e.g. the 3d view or timeline, but I think they just take away attention too much. Most user interfaces have most buttons in the same color and nearly the same color as the background. In Blender this is not the case, and adding embossing doesn't seem needed. * Black arrows on menu button -1, Way too low contrast, there's almost no point in having them there. Makes them look like other dark UI widgets like radio buttons, which is not good. For me the arrows are quite visible but they could be made darker still. I think that if you look at the buttons, you see the arrows, but if you're scanning over buttons they can be skipped over. I think this is a good thing, for example in the 3d view header, there's a few of those in a row. The white arrows distract from the white text/icons and it's harder to scan for the right button. * Panel header changed look smaller The panel header with a single line makes it more difficult to see where one panel ends and the other begins, so I made the entire header darker. There is no longer space between the panels when they are collapsed, but otherwise the header has the same size. They could be made a bit bigger but don't feel cramped to me, maybe they would on a bigger screen. * Screen splitting widgets look Not a fan of how it is now, but perhaps if it was the dark triangle with a hint of the 'gripper' lines blended on top it would work better. Ok, I can try to add some subtle gripper lines. * Toolbar/properties expand button look Guess this one was obvious, unconnected (+) buttons are confusing. I'd still like to change the font in trunk, but it seems hard to get an agreement on this. Some tests: Again, I'd like to hear the rationale - I think the font in trunk right now is very good. If it's to make things smaller and more condensed, be wary of cutting off one's nose to spite one's face - you *need* whitespace in design, it's not just wasted areas where more can be crammed in. I don't particularly care about the text being smaller, any gains there are very minor. I just think the current font is hard to read at this size, too 'smudgy', and the shapes of words aren't very distinctive. My impression is that there are fonts that were designed to work better at this font size. Thanks, Brecht. ___ Bf-committers mailing list Bf-committers@blender.org http://lists.blender.org/mailman/listinfo/bf-committers -- Thomas Dinges Blender Developer, Artist and Musician www.dingto.org ___ Bf-committers mailing list Bf-committers@blender.org http://lists.blender.org/mailman/listinfo/bf-committers
Re: [Bf-committers] UI changes from cycles branch
Overall seems ok to me, though some of these details I'm not fussed either way. dark vs light arrows - no strong opinion here, though I like lower contrast but agree its too low at least on my monitor. Matt, agree emboss on buttons could be good but think how its used in trunk does not communicate anything about the buttons state. In Agustin Benavidez's reply he mentions about buttons being pressed being hard to see, While I agree with him (and think we should improve this), I don't think you're patch makes this better or worse, in both since the emboss is on the outside not showing if the button is pressed or not. On Mon, Oct 24, 2011 at 3:01 PM, Thomas Dinges blen...@dingto.org wrote: Hi, I fully agree with Brechts changes and give +1 for them as Py UI Module Owner and member of the Interface Look team! I would also not necessarily change the screen splitting widget, I think it's way better in the Cycles branch now, compared to trunk. Removing the white arrows in menus, making them darker, helps indeed a lot while scanning over buttons as well. Regards, Thomas Am 24.10.2011 03:29, schrieb Brecht Van Lommel: Hi, On Mon, Oct 24, 2011 at 1:39 AM, Matt Ebbm...@mke3.net wrote: I'd personally like to hear the rationale for these rather than just saying here's the patch. Some of it seems a bit more like a matter of taste too, rather than something that's designed for a wide audience, so I'm curious to hear the reasoning. Alright, I already discussed this with a few people, so forgot that it might need more explanation :) * Remove emboss on areas and regions The embossing distracts from the buttons and text in the actual region. There wasn't any embossing around areas (mistakenly mentioned that), only black lines. It's around regions only, and there it doesn't seem to help much, because the regions are in a different color from the main region anyway? * Remove button emboss * More subtle colors and gradients on buttons For me this helps a lot in making the buttons more readable. Most user interfaces have only sparsely distributed buttons, but in blender we have many buttons, and I think at a certain point embossing and gradients just make it harder to actually read the text in them. Buttons with more embossing make a clear distinction with e.g. the 3d view or timeline, but I think they just take away attention too much. Most user interfaces have most buttons in the same color and nearly the same color as the background. In Blender this is not the case, and adding embossing doesn't seem needed. * Black arrows on menu button -1, Way too low contrast, there's almost no point in having them there. Makes them look like other dark UI widgets like radio buttons, which is not good. For me the arrows are quite visible but they could be made darker still. I think that if you look at the buttons, you see the arrows, but if you're scanning over buttons they can be skipped over. I think this is a good thing, for example in the 3d view header, there's a few of those in a row. The white arrows distract from the white text/icons and it's harder to scan for the right button. * Panel header changed look smaller The panel header with a single line makes it more difficult to see where one panel ends and the other begins, so I made the entire header darker. There is no longer space between the panels when they are collapsed, but otherwise the header has the same size. They could be made a bit bigger but don't feel cramped to me, maybe they would on a bigger screen. * Screen splitting widgets look Not a fan of how it is now, but perhaps if it was the dark triangle with a hint of the 'gripper' lines blended on top it would work better. Ok, I can try to add some subtle gripper lines. * Toolbar/properties expand button look Guess this one was obvious, unconnected (+) buttons are confusing. I'd still like to change the font in trunk, but it seems hard to get an agreement on this. Some tests: Again, I'd like to hear the rationale - I think the font in trunk right now is very good. If it's to make things smaller and more condensed, be wary of cutting off one's nose to spite one's face - you *need* whitespace in design, it's not just wasted areas where more can be crammed in. I don't particularly care about the text being smaller, any gains there are very minor. I just think the current font is hard to read at this size, too 'smudgy', and the shapes of words aren't very distinctive. My impression is that there are fonts that were designed to work better at this font size. Thanks, Brecht. ___ Bf-committers mailing list Bf-committers@blender.org http://lists.blender.org/mailman/listinfo/bf-committers -- Thomas Dinges Blender Developer, Artist and Musician www.dingto.org ___ Bf-committers mailing list Bf-committers@blender.org
