Re: [blackbelly] colostrum feeding
Are you sure you need to vaccinate with CD/T? Carol At 02:18 PM 5/15/2006 -0400, you wrote: My question (since I have my first bottle baby) is when do you give the first CD/T shot to these lambs? ___ This message is from the blackbelly mailing list Visit the list's homepage at %http://www.blackbellysheep.info
Re: [blackbelly] colostrum feeding
What is CD/T - Original Message - From: Carol J. Elkins [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: blackbelly@lists.blackbellysheep.info Sent: Monday, May 15, 2006 2:37 PM Subject: Re: [blackbelly] colostrum feeding Are you sure you need to vaccinate with CD/T? Carol At 02:18 PM 5/15/2006 -0400, you wrote: My question (since I have my first bottle baby) is when do you give the first CD/T shot to these lambs? ___ This message is from the blackbelly mailing list Visit the list's homepage at %http://www.blackbellysheep.info ___ This message is from the blackbelly mailing list Visit the list's homepage at %http://www.blackbellysheep.info
Re: [blackbelly] blackbelly Digest, Vol 2, Issue 93
CD/T is the combination injection to vaccinate against Clostridium Perfringens types C and D (overeating disease), and also against Tetnus. I give one shot (2 ml) subcutaneously at 2 weeks old, and a second shot (2 ml) at 4 weeks old. Some breeders also vaccinate their adult ewes once each year, but I do not do that. Mary Swindell At 12:13 PM 5/15/2006 -0700, you wrote: Message: 3 Date: Mon, 15 May 2006 14:18:04 -0400 From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Subject: Re: [blackbelly] colostrum feeding To: blackbelly@lists.blackbellysheep.info, [EMAIL PROTECTED] Message-ID: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii; format=flowed From: Nancy Richardson [EMAIL PROTECTED] Cecil, I agree with you. I raised 30 bottle babies last year and the same again this year,. 99% never having any of the moms colostrum. My question (since I have my first bottle baby) is when do you give the first CD/T shot to these lambs? Elaine Haas Message: 5 Date: Tue, 16 May 2006 02:58:43 -0400 From: Stephanie Jones [EMAIL PROTECTED] Subject: Re: [blackbelly] colostrum feeding To: blackbelly@lists.blackbellysheep.info Message-ID: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 What is CD/T ___ This message is from the blackbelly mailing list Visit the list's homepage at %http://www.blackbellysheep.info
Re: [blackbelly] colostrum feeding
On 5/16/2006 12:58:43 AM, Stephanie Jones ([EMAIL PROTECTED]) wrote: What is CD/T It is a vaccination for enterotoxemia (overeating disease) caused by Clostridium perfringins types C and D and tetanus (lockjaw) caused by Clostridium tetani. See http://www.sheepandgoat.com/articles/flockvaccinations.html for a full discussion. When I started raising Barbados Blackbelly sheep, I'd read every book available about sheep, and one universal truth was evident: you needed to vaccinate for CDT. But I opted not to vaccinate because I am truly dedicated to the idea that these sheep should not require prophylactic chemical intervention in order to stay alive. If I vaccinate and deworm, then I will be masking any reduction in disease resistance and worm tolerance that an individual sheep may have and will be tossing those impaired genetics into the gene pool. That will eventually lower the entire breed's disease resistance and worm tolerance. This is a tough decision, because of course I want to provide the best care possible for my sheep, and vaccinating and deworming are markers in many people's eyes that measure my level of sheep husbandry. But I believe I am doing more to help the breed in my decision to limit the number of unnecessary chemicals I put into my sheep. There are very few wooled sheep in the U.S. that would be able to live 6 months without chemicals. In 9 years, I have never had any disease in my flock, other than a brief bout of pinkeye and an imported batch of sheep with foot scald. Your mileage may vary. Carol ___ This message is from the blackbelly mailing list Visit the list's homepage at %http://www.blackbellysheep.info
Re: [blackbelly] Immunities/was colostrum feeding
Living with horses predisposes my stock to tetanus. Having watched a horse die of lockjaw, this is not a risk I will take. This next bit got me heckled off another sheep list, but I'll take a chance here. I went through a very difficult period with the sheep which extensive research revealed to be a trace element imbalance - read imbalance - not necessarily deficiency. In disastrous proportions. While I fully agree that chemical props used willy nilly are extremely detrimental to the gene pool, I would also like to propose that even highly disease tolerant animals which are fed/pastured on many of our trace-element-deficient/chemicaled forages, do not have all the immune system building blocks necessary to live up to their genetic potential. There's no doubt in my mind that a lot of the state of disrepair that some breeds/species are in is not so much the lack of genetic immunity, but the lack of immune-system building blocks. They are challenged by deficient/toxic feeds. To my mind this is the state of things which fuels the pharmaceutical engine. We are not putting money into rebuilding our agricultural soils and thus our health/the health of our animals, we are inventing another injectable band-aid. My land is not up to robust health yet, and none of the forages I have tested from statewide sources give me the confidence that my sheep are fully up to their genetic immune capabilities. We are working on it, but building that kind of health into the soil takes years. And since we must buy in hay for the winter, we are out of control of that phase of our program. Our time will come, but in the meantime, there are one or two items that I will vaccinate for. Regards, Barb L. - Original Message - From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: blackbelly@lists.blackbellysheep.info Sent: Monday, May 15, 2006 1:38 PM Subject: Re: [blackbelly] colostrum feeding Well I think it would be wonderful not to vaccinate. I only have a few polled BB at this point. I would hate to lose them to overeating disease or tetanus. So at this point I'm not sure I want to take the risk of not vaccinating. I would consider it if I had a sizeable flock. And in all honesty not vaccinating seems to run contrary to everything I have read. Probably most of the material I read pertains to woolies, so maybe that is the issue. My vet keeps wanting me to use Covexin 8. I have not done that. I don't know anyone that uses Covexin 8. I have also heard that because my sheep run with horses they are more at risk for tetanus. Don't know if that is true or not. Elaine -Original Message- From: Carol J. Elkins [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: blackbelly@lists.blackbellysheep.info Sent: Mon, 15 May 2006 12:37:22 -0600 Subject: Re: [blackbelly] colostrum feeding Are you sure you need to vaccinate with CD/T? Carol At 02:18 PM 5/15/2006 -0400, you wrote: My question (since I have my first bottle baby) is when do you give the first CD/T shot to these lambs? ___ This message is from the blackbelly mailing list Visit the list's homepage at %http://www.blackbellysheep.info ___ This message is from the blackbelly mailing list Visit the list's homepage at %http://www.blackbellysheep.info ___ This message is from the blackbelly mailing list Visit the list's homepage at %http://www.blackbellysheep.info
Re: [blackbelly] colostrum feeding
I just started using Covexin 8 this year. I seem to be the last one in this neighborhood to change over (grin). Before that I used CD/T. I have AB's crossed with a wool variety of some sort, so I don't feel comfortable at all not vaccinating. However, I also agree with Carol's thinking and would love to go that route someday. I also started with goats so I'm use to their vaccination schedule. Currently, I vaccinate at about 10 weeks (5cc SQ) with a booster 6 weeks later (2cc SQ)...and then a booster each year, 2 weeks before lambing. Renee Harrison, Idaho From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Reply-To: blackbelly@lists.blackbellysheep.info To: blackbelly@lists.blackbellysheep.info Subject: Re: [blackbelly] colostrum feeding Date: Mon, 15 May 2006 16:38:41 -0400 snipMy vet keeps wanting me to use Covexin 8. I have not done that. I don't know anyone that uses Covexin 8. Elaine .info _ Express yourself instantly with MSN Messenger! Download today - it's FREE! http://messenger.msn.click-url.com/go/onm00200471ave/direct/01/ ___ This message is from the blackbelly mailing list Visit the list's homepage at %http://www.blackbellysheep.info
Re: [blackbelly] colostrum feeding
My vet told me that Covexin-8 is a real injection-site abcess maker, so keep an eye out. We quit using it and just went with CD-T Barb - Original Message - From: Paul Renee Bailey [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: blackbelly@lists.blackbellysheep.info Sent: Monday, May 15, 2006 2:03 PM Subject: Re: [blackbelly] colostrum feeding I just started using Covexin 8 this year. I seem to be the last one in this neighborhood to change over (grin). Before that I used CD/T. I have AB's crossed with a wool variety of some sort, so I don't feel comfortable at all not vaccinating. However, I also agree with Carol's thinking and would love to go that route someday. I also started with goats so I'm use to their vaccination schedule. Currently, I vaccinate at about 10 weeks (5cc SQ) with a booster 6 weeks later (2cc SQ)...and then a booster each year, 2 weeks before lambing. Renee Harrison, Idaho From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Reply-To: blackbelly@lists.blackbellysheep.info To: blackbelly@lists.blackbellysheep.info Subject: Re: [blackbelly] colostrum feeding Date: Mon, 15 May 2006 16:38:41 -0400 snipMy vet keeps wanting me to use Covexin 8. I have not done that. I don't know anyone that uses Covexin 8. Elaine .info _ Express yourself instantly with MSN Messenger! Download today - it's FREE! http://messenger.msn.click-url.com/go/onm00200471ave/direct/01/ ___ This message is from the blackbelly mailing list Visit the list's homepage at %http://www.blackbellysheep.info ___ This message is from the blackbelly mailing list Visit the list's homepage at %http://www.blackbellysheep.info
[blackbelly] Butchering
Barb, How did the butchering go today? We had three that we were going to butcher a few weeks ago. We had been waiting on a friend that wanted to come watch and learn. When he didn't show, I thought we had lost our window of opportunity, since the weather now is so warm. However, we realized that if we didn't do it today, we'd probably be feeding these guy's for months to come...and that wasn't in the plan. So we got up and started early this morning. I was not looking forward to the task because of the warm weather. We're use to hanging the carcasses for a day or two so I wasn't sure what we were going to do. Then I remembered I had a stand up freezer that needed defrosting, so after washing and cooling down the carcusses, we cut them in half crosswise and now each shelf has two halves that neatly fit together. Here's hoping that your day went as smooth as ours! Renee Bailey Harrison, Idaho _ Express yourself instantly with MSN Messenger! Download today - it's FREE! http://messenger.msn.click-url.com/go/onm00200471ave/direct/01/ ___ This message is from the blackbelly mailing list Visit the list's homepage at %http://www.blackbellysheep.info
Re: [blackbelly] Covexin 8
Yes, I heard that too so I plan to watch very closely. I also give the SQ injections over the ribs, behind the armpit, away from any lymph gland. Last year I ran across a great diagram showing where all the lymph glands were on sheep, along with the best injections sites to use. If I run across it, I'll post the site link. Or maybe someone here knows of one? Renee Harrison, ID From: Barb Lee [EMAIL PROTECTED] Reply-To: blackbelly@lists.blackbellysheep.info To: blackbelly@lists.blackbellysheep.info Subject: Re: [blackbelly] colostrum feeding Date: Mon, 15 May 2006 14:06:03 -0700 My vet told me that Covexin-8 is a real injection-site abcess maker, so keep an eye out. We quit using it and just went with CD-T Barb _ Dont just search. Find. Check out the new MSN Search! http://search.msn.click-url.com/go/onm00200636ave/direct/01/ ___ This message is from the blackbelly mailing list Visit the list's homepage at %http://www.blackbellysheep.info
Re: [blackbelly] Reluctant Butcher
Barb, Julian is right about what he said. We do ours all the time ourselves. Ted is constantly sharpening that knife!We have 2 posts in the ground and a board across the top. We use Rachet tie downs to hoist the carcass up so we can do the skinning and necessary preparation outside. We use the hose to clean off the carcass ( Julian - a power washer would be excellent to have for that!!). Then we have a chain with a hook in our shop which we can hoist up again to do the actual butchering. We usually start in the early morning when it is cool out. We usually take out the loins and then just quarter the carcass and lay it in a freezer to cool it down so we can do the rest of the butchering. It does take time but it is well worth it. We grind up our own ground lamb and cut our roasts, etc. The only thing Ted says we really need to invest in is a new meat saw Good luck in your endeavor - it's well worht it. Sue ___ This message is from the blackbelly mailing list Visit the list's homepage at %http://www.blackbellysheep.info
Re: [blackbelly] Reluctant Butcher
Sue, Ted is sharpening the knife!! How come you're not hoppin' in there! VBG! Just kidding! I still run and hide for the actual shot, but after that, I was all over it. Bob got me a special little skinning knife with a replaceable blade, which I hope is sharpen-able. It certainly did an excellent job, but it was slowing down at the end. The hunting knife that I used, I thought had been professionally sharpened, then unused, but the point would barely pierce the hide, so yes, all the tool will be gone over before cutting and honed during. My kitchen knives won't cut a tomato skin! VBG! We have a barn with a loft, and a 1/2 ton electric chain hoist that runs out the front on a trolley. We call it our Geezer Barn. Got too old for packing sacks of feed up the ladder, over the shoulder! That was the clear deal for this job. Because we're so stuck on spring grassfed meat, we really do have an issue with the weather, and our new cooling setup seems to work perfectly. But that leaves us in the dilemma of needing a 3rd freezer - one dedicated for cooling. We also got a heavy duty grinder some time ago. This will be our first chance to use it. Have a sausage recipe all picked out! MMM!! Barb - Original Message - From: Sue Miller [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: blackbelly@lists.blackbellysheep.info Sent: Monday, May 15, 2006 5:32 PM Subject: Re: [blackbelly] Reluctant Butcher Barb, Julian is right about what he said. We do ours all the time ourselves. Ted is constantly sharpening that knife!We have 2 posts in the ground and a board across the top. We use Rachet tie downs to hoist the carcass up so we can do the skinning and necessary preparation outside. We use the hose to clean off the carcass ( Julian - a power washer would be excellent to have for that!!). Then we have a chain with a hook in our shop which we can hoist up again to do the actual butchering. We usually start in the early morning when it is cool out. We usually take out the loins and then just quarter the carcass and lay it in a freezer to cool it down so we can do the rest of the butchering. It does take time but it is well worth it. We grind up our own ground lamb and cut our roasts, etc. The only thing Ted says we really need to invest in is a new meat saw Good luck in your endeavor - it's well worht it. Sue ___ This message is from the blackbelly mailing list Visit the list's homepage at %http://www.blackbellysheep.info ___ This message is from the blackbelly mailing list Visit the list's homepage at %http://www.blackbellysheep.info
Re: [blackbelly] amount of colostrum needed
Thank you Cecil for sharing your experiences. I don't respond often to the list. I too think that most people overfeed their bottle babies. In our haste to be a good steward we forget that the little critters do not have human emotion or needs. In the past I too tried to feed too much too often. Now I just keep the baby warm, feed small amounts 2 to 3 hours apart (only during daylight hours), and try not to worry. Even as the lambs get older, I do not exceed 3 cups of milk replacer a day and that is usually split into 2 to 3 feedings during the daylight hours. I do not offer grain as their stomachs have trouble processing it. They are fed a small pellet and alfalfa hay. Haven't lost a lamb in several years. My ewes have taken care of their lambs this year and it has been a rough year here in TX. Now we have grass and it is wonderful to see well fed lambs with their slick mamas. Thank you, Rhonda - Original Message - From: Cecil Bearden [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: blackbelly@lists.blackbellysheep.info Sent: Saturday, May 13, 2006 12:24 AM Subject: Re: [blackbelly] amount of colostrum needed I disagree with this recommendation. I have had 4 lambs in the past 7 years that had to be bottle fed. 3 died. I now believe this was from enteroxemia due to over feeding. The lamb that I had so much trouble with but survived has shown me that I was over feeding. When weighed about 8 lbs when I was feeding her 1 oz every 2 hours and developed enterotoxemia. I later tried this again a week later and she nearly died from overeating. I milked out a ewe that had twins and one born dead. The other was very weak from the birthing. I only got 1 oz from her total. I fed the lamb with a tube and he is doing fine now. If he had nursed and had another sibling, he only would have received 1/2 oz. I had a lamb that was very cold from exposure and not enough milk. I brought him into the house and fed him during the night. about 1 1/2 oz every 1 1/2 hours. He died 24 hours later. I pulled fluid from his stomach when I was trying to revive him and got a back fluid. This was the stomach lining due to enterotoxemia. Same fluid found when I had so much trouble with my latest bottle baby that is now doing fine. She has been bouncing around in a playpen in the living room. She goes everywhere with me. One of these days she is going to be a sheep, not a child.. I have discussed this with my vet who is on site nearly every day and he agrees that we have just overfed blackbellies in the past and we have altered our feeding amounts for newborns. Just my $0.02 Cecil Bearden Oklahoma - Original Message - From: Carol Elkins [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: blackbelly@lists.blackbellysheep.info; Nancy Richardson [EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Monday, May 08, 2006 11:44 AM Subject: Re: [blackbelly] amount of colostrum needed Hi Nancy, This is from Laura Lawson's book, Managing Your Ewe and Her Newborn Lambs (http://www.amazon.com/exec/obidos/ASIN/096339231X/critterhavenesta I consider this book to be a Must-Have book for all shepherds. Recommendations by knowledgeable authorities are for a minimum of 7 oz. as a first feeding after birth. Lambs may need as much as 12 oz. depending on the size of the lamb. The equation set forth is about 20cc per pound of body weight for the first feeding. The lamb should receive this amount from 30 to 60 minutes of birth. ... In the case of orphan lambs, initial amounts of colostrum should be followed at later feedings with divided amounts of colostrum for 24 hours. Amounts should equal 15% to 20% of the lamb's body weight. Unfortunately producers don't have unlimited supplies of colostrum. This often requires using artificial colostrum for future feedings. Only use these after giving the lamb the initial appropriate ewe colostrum of a minimum amount of 7 oz. within one hour of birth. These amounts are for wooled sheep; here are the adjustments that should be made for smaller blackbelly sheep. Let's do the math on her formula 20 cc colostrum per pound of lamb Let's say the average blackbelly lamb is 6 lb. 20 cc X 6 lb = 120 cc Convert this to ounces (1 oz = 30 mL = 30 cc): 120 cc / 30 cc = 4 oz for the first feeding after birth. She says the total amount for 24 hours should be 20% of the lamb's weight. 6 lb x 16 oz/lb = 96 oz. 20% of 96 oz. = 19 oz. So, although your 7 oz. exceeded the first feeding requirement, it was short of the total amount needed in 24 hours by 12 oz. Carol At 09:48 PM 5/5/2006 -0500, you wrote: Hello, does any one know how much colostrum is needed by a lamb? We had triplets born. 2 of them to small to reach momma and her to wild to catch. I fed them both 3 ounces of colostrum mix before they were 2 hours old. But after that could only get about 1/2 ounce down them every few hours for a total of about 7 ounces in 24 hours. They only weigh about 2 pounds or so each.
