[blackbelly] Scrapie Testing
When you look at the total of Livestock, Dairy and Eggs being produced on American farms, 26.6 Billion # of it is beef and veal. Only .2 Billion is lamb and mutton. This information was found in the Spring 2006 Farm Bureau "Kansas Living" publication. Currently Michigan's voluntary Scrapie program (MSRRP - Michigan Scrapie Risk Reduction Program) does not allow you to sell any QQ animal for breeding purposes. QQ animals are to be sold for slaughter only. (QQ being at codon 171.) How long before other states follow Michigan's lead? The USDA Meat Animal Research Center (MARC) in Clay Center, NE uses codon 171 in its selection process. The United States government has decided that the codon 171 R gene is important enough to pay for testing for part of our flocks. Consider how the public reacted to the "mad-Cow" scare. The government's knee-jerk reaction was to eliminate entire herds. The small producer has a very hard time recovering from such reactions. If a "Scrapie" scare were to occur, how many of us would be completely eliminated? I believe it will take 10 years to establish an 'RR' flock of Barbados Blackbelly at my location. How many "voluntary" programs will become "mandatory" in the next 10 years? Consider all the government interest and involvement in tagging livestock. How soon before we are "required" to use electronic tags? I do agree that this gene should not be the "ONLY" criteria for culling. If I had two animals that all other factors weighed evenly, I would have to choose the one with the gene. To my knowledge, no studies have been done on hair sheep Scrapie resistance. I do not want to risk my flock to a bureaucrat that does not know the difference between a wool sheep and a hair sheep. This link is for the definition of the United States position on Scrapie. http://www.aphis.usda.gov/vs/nahps/scrapie/scrapie_genetics.pdf One paragraph stands out above the rest. "The National Genetics Based Flock Clean-up Plan allows affected producers to retain or move RR sheep, AA QR sheep, and most AV QR sheep without restriction. It also calls for the removal or restriction of all exposed QQ ewes, exposed female goats, and the female offspring of scrapie positive female animals. In a minority of flocks where positive AV QR sheep are identified, exposed AV QR ewes will be removed or restricted. In other flocks when requested by the owner APHIS will remove exposed AV QR ewes for study. All scrapie positive and suspect animals must be removed. In the unlikely event that scrapie is found in a sheep that is neither QQ nor AV QR, additional animals may be required to be removed or restricted." So if any "infected" animal were to show up on my farm, at least I would have a chance of keeping the 'QR' and 'RR' animals. ___ This message is from the blackbelly mailing list Visit the list's homepage at blackbelly@lists.blackbellysheep.info http://lists.blackbellysheep.info/listinfo.cgi/blackbelly-blackbellysheep.info
[blackbelly] Scrapie Testing
Oneta, You have to have blood drawn by the vet (vacuum tube style). Then you or the vet(our vet did everything) send it to GeneCheck. Their website is www.genecheck.com The forms and pricing is all online at their website. This is the lab we use for testing. Sharon Wintermute ___ This message is from the blackbelly mailing list Visit the list's homepage at %http://www.blackbellysheep.info
[blackbelly] scrapie testing
The place noted here is no longer doing testing. Does anyone else have a good place to do theirs. I liked not having to do blood as vets are not to easy to track down that will pull blood. Thanks Oneta -Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Behalf Of Peg Haese KB9LIE Sent: Monday, March 20, 2006 3:10 PM To: blackbelly@lists.blackbellysheep.info Subject: Re: [blackbelly] scrapie testing Spider gene testing is basically for Suffolks and Suffolk crosses so don't worry about that with hair sheep. I use C.R. Biotech for scrapie DNA testing and have been very pleased. See their website: http://www.chiggerridge.net/ and select the Scrapie Genotyping button. No blood involved. You collect cell samples on a cotton swab from the inside corner of the eye and put it in a labelled snack-size baggie. They check all three codons for the same price and you get a certificate back. That's nice when selling breeding stock. I have no idea if they would negotiate on volume pricing. They are hair sheep breeders as well as a testing lab. Peg Haese in SW Wisconsin __ Do You Yahoo!? Tired of spam? Yahoo! Mail has the best spam protection around http://mail.yahoo.com ___ This message is from the blackbelly mailing list Visit the list's homepage at %http://www.blackbellysheep.info ___ This message is from the blackbelly mailing list Visit the list's homepage at %http://www.blackbellysheep.info
[blackbelly] scrapie testing
The place noted here is no longer doing testing. Does anyone else have a good place to do theirs. I liked not having to do blood as vets are not to easy to track down that will pull blood. Thanks Oneta -Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Behalf Of Peg Haese KB9LIE Sent: Monday, March 20, 2006 3:10 PM To: blackbelly@lists.blackbellysheep.info Subject: Re: [blackbelly] scrapie testing Spider gene testing is basically for Suffolks and Suffolk crosses so don't worry about that with hair sheep. I use C.R. Biotech for scrapie DNA testing and have been very pleased. See their website: http://www.chiggerridge.net/ and select the Scrapie Genotyping button. No blood involved. You collect cell samples on a cotton swab from the inside corner of the eye and put it in a labelled snack-size baggie. They check all three codons for the same price and you get a certificate back. That's nice when selling breeding stock. I have no idea if they would negotiate on volume pricing. They are hair sheep breeders as well as a testing lab. Peg Haese in SW Wisconsin __ Do You Yahoo!? Tired of spam? Yahoo! Mail has the best spam protection around http://mail.yahoo.com ___ This message is from the blackbelly mailing list Visit the list's homepage at %http://www.blackbellysheep.info ___ This message is from the blackbelly mailing list Visit the list's homepage at %http://www.blackbellysheep.info
Re: [blackbelly] Scrapie Testing
Let us know when you get the tests back on your sheep. It will be good data to add to our very limited information about how our breeds test in this area. Because your flock is a cross-bred flock, it could be that you end up with a higher percentage of QR/RR than a purebred flock. For me, even though I am part of the voluntary scrapie certification program, if I ever must choose between remaining in the program or continuing my efforts to preserve the entire Barbados Blackbelly breed in the U.S. (there are fewer than 200 of 'em), then I will simply leave the program--with many letters to officials explaining their part in exterminating the breed in the U.S. What's the connection? Because unless we get some outside genetics, our breed is doomed (or at least will lose the very characteristics that make it such a desirable sheep) from lack of a broad enough genetic base. And the only way we can bring in outside genetics (after the U.S. puts in place an import protocol), is to be part of the voluntary scrapie program. So if the caretakers of the genetics are forced out of the voluntary program, then we won't be positioned to receive imported semen if it ever becomes available. That's the connection. Our government's idiocy increases exponentially. Carol At 03:27 PM 2/2/2006 -0600, you wrote: >I believe it will take 10 years to establish an 'RR' flock of Barbados >Blackbelly at my location. > >How many "voluntary" programs will become "mandatory" in the next 10 years? > >Consider all the government interest and involvement in tagging livestock. >How soon before we are "required" to use electronic tags? ___ This message is from the blackbelly mailing list Visit the list's homepage at blackbelly@lists.blackbellysheep.info http://lists.blackbellysheep.info/listinfo.cgi/blackbelly-blackbellysheep.info
Re: [blackbelly] Scrapie Testing
Of the 21 rams I am testing 8 are 100% Barbados Blackbelly. Stephan your results of 25% QR have given me hope. If Virginia State ever has any QR Barbados Blackbelly rams available for sale let me know! It would really advance my program here! I will most certaintly keep you updated with my test results! I have no idea of how long it will take to get results back. I am finding out that I am not the most patient man. My progress has been limited to the use of QR sheep. I dream of the day I have a RR Barbados Blackbelly ram. The existence of 25% QR Barbados Blackbelly population would seem to imply there is around 6.25% RR Barbados Blackbelly sheep out there somewhere! My intentions are to join the voluntary srapie program as soon as I get "R" established in my Barbados Blackbelly flock. I see no reason to join until I am ready to close my flock. Mark -Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Carol J. Elkins Sent: Thursday, February 02, 2006 7:31 PM To: blackbelly@lists.blackbellysheep.info Subject: Re: [blackbelly] Scrapie Testing Let us know when you get the tests back on your sheep. It will be good data to add to our very limited information about how our breeds test in this area. Because your flock is a cross-bred flock, it could be that you end up with a higher percentage of QR/RR than a purebred flock. Our government's idiocy increases exponentially. Carol At 03:27 PM 2/2/2006 -0600, you wrote: >I believe it will take 10 years to establish an 'RR' flock of Barbados >Blackbelly at my location. > >How many "voluntary" programs will become "mandatory" in the next 10 years? > >Consider all the government interest and involvement in tagging livestock. >How soon before we are "required" to use electronic tags? ___ This message is from the blackbelly mailing list Visit the list's homepage at blackbelly@lists.blackbellysheep.info http://lists.blackbellysheep.info/listinfo.cgi/blackbelly-blackbellysheep.in fo ___ This message is from the blackbelly mailing list Visit the list's homepage at blackbelly@lists.blackbellysheep.info http://lists.blackbellysheep.info/listinfo.cgi/blackbelly-blackbellysheep.info
Re: [blackbelly] Scrapie Testing
I missed one, I have nine 100% Barbados Blackbelly rams being tested for scrapie resistance. Mark -Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of The Wintermutes Sent: Thursday, February 02, 2006 9:48 PM To: blackbelly@lists.blackbellysheep.info Subject: Re: [blackbelly] Scrapie Testing Of the 21 rams I am testing 8 are 100% Barbados Blackbelly. Stephan your results of 25% QR have given me hope. If Virginia State ever has any QR Barbados Blackbelly rams available for sale let me know! It would really advance my program here! I will most certaintly keep you updated with my test results! I have no idea of how long it will take to get results back. I am finding out that I am not the most patient man. My progress has been limited to the use of QR sheep. I dream of the day I have a RR Barbados Blackbelly ram. The existence of 25% QR Barbados Blackbelly population would seem to imply there is around 6.25% RR Barbados Blackbelly sheep out there somewhere! My intentions are to join the voluntary srapie program as soon as I get "R" established in my Barbados Blackbelly flock. I see no reason to join until I am ready to close my flock. Mark -Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Carol J. Elkins Sent: Thursday, February 02, 2006 7:31 PM To: blackbelly@lists.blackbellysheep.info Subject: Re: [blackbelly] Scrapie Testing Let us know when you get the tests back on your sheep. It will be good data to add to our very limited information about how our breeds test in this area. Because your flock is a cross-bred flock, it could be that you end up with a higher percentage of QR/RR than a purebred flock. Our government's idiocy increases exponentially. Carol At 03:27 PM 2/2/2006 -0600, you wrote: >I believe it will take 10 years to establish an 'RR' flock of Barbados >Blackbelly at my location. > >How many "voluntary" programs will become "mandatory" in the next 10 years? > >Consider all the government interest and involvement in tagging livestock. >How soon before we are "required" to use electronic tags? ___ This message is from the blackbelly mailing list Visit the list's homepage at blackbelly@lists.blackbellysheep.info http://lists.blackbellysheep.info/listinfo.cgi/blackbelly-blackbellysheep.in fo ___ This message is from the blackbelly mailing list Visit the list's homepage at blackbelly@lists.blackbellysheep.info http://lists.blackbellysheep.info/listinfo.cgi/blackbelly-blackbellysheep.in fo ___ This message is from the blackbelly mailing list Visit the list's homepage at blackbelly@lists.blackbellysheep.info http://lists.blackbellysheep.info/listinfo.cgi/blackbelly-blackbellysheep.info
Re: [blackbelly] Scrapie Testing
OK. Next question. What all should you test for. They show for sheep they can scrapie condon, archived dna and spider. Thanks. OJ -Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Behalf Of The Wintermutes Sent: Monday, March 20, 2006 11:52 AM To: blackbelly@lists.blackbellysheep.info Subject: [blackbelly] Scrapie Testing Oneta, You have to have blood drawn by the vet (vacuum tube style). Then you or the vet(our vet did everything) send it to GeneCheck. Their website is www.genecheck.com The forms and pricing is all online at their website. This is the lab we use for testing. Sharon Wintermute ___ This message is from the blackbelly mailing list Visit the list's homepage at %http://www.blackbellysheep.info ___ This message is from the blackbelly mailing list Visit the list's homepage at %http://www.blackbellysheep.info
Re: [blackbelly] Scrapie Testing
We simply do Codon 171 with a possible codon 136 test if QR or RR. -Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Johnson, Oneta Sent: Monday, March 20, 2006 12:06 PM To: blackbelly@lists.blackbellysheep.info Subject: Re: [blackbelly] Scrapie Testing OK. Next question. What all should you test for. They show for sheep they can scrapie condon, archived dna and spider. Thanks. OJ -Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Behalf Of The Wintermutes Sent: Monday, March 20, 2006 11:52 AM To: blackbelly@lists.blackbellysheep.info Subject: [blackbelly] Scrapie Testing Oneta, You have to have blood drawn by the vet (vacuum tube style). Then you or the vet(our vet did everything) send it to GeneCheck. Their website is www.genecheck.com The forms and pricing is all online at their website. This is the lab we use for testing. Sharon Wintermute ___ This message is from the blackbelly mailing list Visit the list's homepage at %http://www.blackbellysheep.info ___ This message is from the blackbelly mailing list Visit the list's homepage at %http://www.blackbellysheep.info ___ This message is from the blackbelly mailing list Visit the list's homepage at %http://www.blackbellysheep.info
Re: [blackbelly] Scrapie Testing
GeneCheck is pricey, so you might want to just have them test Codon 171 ($11.00). Make sure they can report the K allele at Codon 171 if they find it (it's relatively new and VERY important). The K allele imparts the same folding pattern as the R allele and may result in the same scrapie resistance. A researcher at Oklahoma State University is also looking at Codon 136. Also, you don't HAVE to have a vet draw the blood, but good luck trying to do it yourself. Once you get the knack, it's easy, but so far, I haven't had any luck. I'm researching a couple of other blood-collecting methods. Premier sells an ear tag that collects blood in an ampule as the tag is applied. (But our poor sheep just don't need another tag in their ear.) And I'm looking into a blood-collecting card that comes in a roll with a peel off back. You peel of fthe back, get your drop of blood on it, and stick it onto a barcoded strip that you label with the sheep's ID number. I'll let everyone know when I learn more. Also, ASI has a program to help shepherds offset the cost of genotyping. I haven't used it myself, but the ASI Web site says they will reimburse the producer up to $14 for genotyping. Since GeneCheck only charges $11, it could very well be that the test might be free, so it might be worth checking into. Have a look at http://www.sheepusa.org/?page=site/text&nav_id=19190b8e5ac3e3bdbe3ff5f8cbb23ecd Carol At 12:05 PM 3/20/2006 -0600, you wrote: >OK. Next question. What all should you test for. They show for sheep >they can scrapie condon, archived dna and spider. Carol Elkins Critterhaven--Registered Barbados Blackbelly Hair Sheep (no shear, no dock, no fuss) Pueblo, Colorado http://www.critterhaven.biz T-shirts, mugs, caps, and more at the Barbados Blackbelly Online Store http://www.cafepress.com/blackbellysheep ___ This message is from the blackbelly mailing list Visit the list's homepage at %http://www.blackbellysheep.info
Re: [blackbelly] Scrapie Testing
We just did about 70 animals and we got it down to 6.00 per test. I use the vet for "objectivity". State of Kansas "prefers" it. Sharon ___ This message is from the blackbelly mailing list Visit the list's homepage at %http://www.blackbellysheep.info
Re: [blackbelly] scrapie testing
Spider gene testing is basically for Suffolks and Suffolk crosses so don't worry about that with hair sheep. I use C.R. Biotech for scrapie DNA testing and have been very pleased. See their website: http://www.chiggerridge.net/ and select the Scrapie Genotyping button. No blood involved. You collect cell samples on a cotton swab from the inside corner of the eye and put it in a labelled snack-size baggie. They check all three codons for the same price and you get a certificate back. That's nice when selling breeding stock. I have no idea if they would negotiate on volume pricing. They are hair sheep breeders as well as a testing lab. Peg Haese in SW Wisconsin __ Do You Yahoo!? Tired of spam? Yahoo! Mail has the best spam protection around http://mail.yahoo.com ___ This message is from the blackbelly mailing list Visit the list's homepage at %http://www.blackbellysheep.info
Re: [blackbelly] scrapie testing
Well I think I may go that way. To bad they are not an approved lab. I have called 2 vets close by and no one will pull blood on sheep so this will be a great benefit. Thanks OJ -Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Behalf Of Peg Haese KB9LIE Sent: Monday, March 20, 2006 3:10 PM To: blackbelly@lists.blackbellysheep.info Subject: Re: [blackbelly] scrapie testing Spider gene testing is basically for Suffolks and Suffolk crosses so don't worry about that with hair sheep. I use C.R. Biotech for scrapie DNA testing and have been very pleased. See their website: http://www.chiggerridge.net/ and select the Scrapie Genotyping button. No blood involved. You collect cell samples on a cotton swab from the inside corner of the eye and put it in a labelled snack-size baggie. They check all three codons for the same price and you get a certificate back. That's nice when selling breeding stock. I have no idea if they would negotiate on volume pricing. They are hair sheep breeders as well as a testing lab. Peg Haese in SW Wisconsin __ Do You Yahoo!? Tired of spam? Yahoo! Mail has the best spam protection around http://mail.yahoo.com ___ This message is from the blackbelly mailing list Visit the list's homepage at %http://www.blackbellysheep.info ___ This message is from the blackbelly mailing list Visit the list's homepage at %http://www.blackbellysheep.info
Re: [blackbelly] scrapie testing
FANTASTIC POST Results are not USDA/APHIS certified but WOW I can check sheep without a vet! Mark Wintermute -Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Peg Haese KB9LIE Sent: Monday, March 20, 2006 3:10 PM To: blackbelly@lists.blackbellysheep.info Subject: Re: [blackbelly] scrapie testing Spider gene testing is basically for Suffolks and Suffolk crosses so don't worry about that with hair sheep. I use C.R. Biotech for scrapie DNA testing and have been very pleased. See their website: http://www.chiggerridge.net/ and select the Scrapie Genotyping button. No blood involved. You collect cell samples on a cotton swab from the inside corner of the eye and put it in a labelled snack-size baggie. They check all three codons for the same price and you get a certificate back. That's nice when selling breeding stock. I have no idea if they would negotiate on volume pricing. They are hair sheep breeders as well as a testing lab. Peg Haese in SW Wisconsin __ Do You Yahoo!? Tired of spam? Yahoo! Mail has the best spam protection around http://mail.yahoo.com ___ This message is from the blackbelly mailing list Visit the list's homepage at %http://www.blackbellysheep.info ___ This message is from the blackbelly mailing list Visit the list's homepage at %http://www.blackbellysheep.info
Re: [blackbelly] scrapie testing
I've managed to learn the magic words that will help us locate other labs to do non-jugular blood collection for scrapie testing. The words are "FTA cards." A quick Google search taught me that alpaca breeders use these as a requirement to prove parentage for registering their alpacas. Then I learned that the cards used to collect the blood are called Whatman FTA cards and can be purchased from the major lab supply companies (Whatman, Fischer Scientific, etc.). But then I struck gold when I found the Web site for Genaissance (http://www.genaissance.com/products_services/scrapie.html). They do the testing, sell the cards, and also give you a discount if you purchase a specific card, even if you don't get it from them. All of the APHIS-approved scrapie testing labs (http://www.aphis.usda.gov/vs/nahps/scrapie/app-labs-genotype-test.html#labs ) will do FTA cards, so the next step would be to work down the list and do some price comparison. When you talk to them, ask if they will do cotton swab samples and what surcharge, if any, they apply. Seems to me that a Q-tip is a heck of a lot cheaper than an FTA card, but not if a lab adds a $6.00 surcharge for the additional labor it costs them to process the sample. Let us know what you find out if any of you pursue this. I'd be very interested in finding a lab that will distinguish H and K alleles at Codon 171 in addition to the traditional R and Q. That K allele could turn out to be very important in blackbelly genetics, and if we're going to test our sheep, we might as well obtain as much information as possible from the test. My gut feeling is that it won't be sufficient to learn that a sheep is RR, QR, or QQ; our sheep may contribute to scrapie resistance at the K allele. Carol At 09:41 AM 5/25/2006 -0500, you wrote: >The place noted here is no longer doing testing. Does anyone else have a >good place to do theirs. I liked not having to do blood as vets are not >to easy to track down that will pull blood. Thanks ___ This message is from the blackbelly mailing list Visit the list's homepage at %http://www.blackbellysheep.info
Re: [blackbelly] scrapie testing
What I have found so far. If you can do the cards you can do them yourself and save the vet charge. You just have to monitor what you are touching and get them mailed. If you do blood pull you have to use a purple tube and for me that is for a vet. I do not handle blood well. AS I find out more will post it. oj -Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Behalf Of Carol J. Elkins Sent: Friday, May 26, 2006 11:03 AM To: blackbelly@lists.blackbellysheep.info Subject: Re: [blackbelly] scrapie testing I've managed to learn the magic words that will help us locate other labs to do non-jugular blood collection for scrapie testing. The words are "FTA cards." A quick Google search taught me that alpaca breeders use these as a requirement to prove parentage for registering their alpacas. Then I learned that the cards used to collect the blood are called Whatman FTA cards and can be purchased from the major lab supply companies (Whatman, Fischer Scientific, etc.). But then I struck gold when I found the Web site for Genaissance (http://www.genaissance.com/products_services/scrapie.html). They do the testing, sell the cards, and also give you a discount if you purchase a specific card, even if you don't get it from them. All of the APHIS-approved scrapie testing labs (http://www.aphis.usda.gov/vs/nahps/scrapie/app-labs-genotype-test.html#labs ) will do FTA cards, so the next step would be to work down the list and do some price comparison. When you talk to them, ask if they will do cotton swab samples and what surcharge, if any, they apply. Seems to me that a Q-tip is a heck of a lot cheaper than an FTA card, but not if a lab adds a $6.00 surcharge for the additional labor it costs them to process the sample. Let us know what you find out if any of you pursue this. I'd be very interested in finding a lab that will distinguish H and K alleles at Codon 171 in addition to the traditional R and Q. That K allele could turn out to be very important in blackbelly genetics, and if we're going to test our sheep, we might as well obtain as much information as possible from the test. My gut feeling is that it won't be sufficient to learn that a sheep is RR, QR, or QQ; our sheep may contribute to scrapie resistance at the K allele. Carol At 09:41 AM 5/25/2006 -0500, you wrote: >The place noted here is no longer doing testing. Does anyone else have a >good place to do theirs. I liked not having to do blood as vets are not >to easy to track down that will pull blood. Thanks ___ This message is from the blackbelly mailing list Visit the list's homepage at %http://www.blackbellysheep.info ___ This message is from the blackbelly mailing list Visit the list's homepage at %http://www.blackbellysheep.info
Re: [blackbelly] scrapie testing
Did anyone of you ever observe in BB scrapie ? Our province has never had any scrapie, but you should see how much money the Govenment is willing to put in, hundredthousands of dollars.For what, something nobody realy knows about ? And than have a look how much is done, to keep a breed as BB in good conditon. But the real problem maker is not the Govenment, it is the Farmer who accepts what ever the Government tells him to do. Before I have to do Scrapie testing in my sheep, sheep which never have had any Scrapie, seems better for me to give sheep farming up.Let others do and look about the succes they gone have. That's the way I see it regards Helmut - Original Message - From: "Johnson, Oneta" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> To: Sent: Friday, May 26, 2006 1:02 PM Subject: Re: [blackbelly] scrapie testing > What I have found so far. If you can do the cards you can do them > yourself and save the vet charge. You just have to monitor what you are > touching and get them mailed. If you do blood pull you have to use a > purple tube and for me that is for a vet. I do not handle blood well. AS > I find out more will post it. oj > > -Original Message- > From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] > [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Behalf Of Carol > J. Elkins > Sent: Friday, May 26, 2006 11:03 AM > To: blackbelly@lists.blackbellysheep.info > Subject: Re: [blackbelly] scrapie testing > > > I've managed to learn the magic words that will help us locate other labs > to do non-jugular blood collection for scrapie testing. The words are "FTA > cards." A quick Google search taught me that alpaca breeders use these as > a > requirement to prove parentage for registering their alpacas. Then I > learned that the cards used to collect the blood are called Whatman FTA > cards and can be purchased from the major lab supply companies (Whatman, > Fischer Scientific, etc.). But then I struck gold when I found the Web > site > for Genaissance > (http://www.genaissance.com/products_services/scrapie.html). They do the > testing, sell the cards, and also give you a discount if you purchase a > specific card, even if you don't get it from them. > > All of the APHIS-approved scrapie testing labs > (http://www.aphis.usda.gov/vs/nahps/scrapie/app-labs-genotype-test.html#labs > ) will do FTA cards, so the next step would be to work down the list and > do > some price comparison. When you talk to them, ask if they will do cotton > swab samples and what surcharge, if any, they apply. Seems to me that a > Q-tip is a heck of a lot cheaper than an FTA card, but not if a lab adds a > $6.00 surcharge for the additional labor it costs them to process the > sample. > > Let us know what you find out if any of you pursue this. I'd be very > interested in finding a lab that will distinguish H and K alleles at Codon > 171 in addition to the traditional R and Q. That K allele could turn out > to > be very important in blackbelly genetics, and if we're going to test our > sheep, we might as well obtain as much information as possible from the > test. My gut feeling is that it won't be sufficient to learn that a sheep > is RR, QR, or QQ; our sheep may contribute to scrapie resistance at the K > allele. > > > Carol > > > At 09:41 AM 5/25/2006 -0500, you wrote: >>The place noted here is no longer doing testing. Does anyone else have a >>good place to do theirs. I liked not having to do blood as vets are not >>to easy to track down that will pull blood. Thanks > > ___ > This message is from the blackbelly mailing list > Visit the list's homepage at %http://www.blackbellysheep.info > ___ > This message is from the blackbelly mailing list > Visit the list's homepage at %http://www.blackbellysheep.info > > > -- > No virus found in this incoming message. > Checked by AVG Free Edition. > Version: 7.1.394 / Virus Database: 268.7.1/348 - Release Date: 25/05/2006 > > ___ This message is from the blackbelly mailing list Visit the list's homepage at %http://www.blackbellysheep.info
Re: [blackbelly] scrapie testing
There are a lot of reasons that blackbelly owners might want to test their sheep for scrapie susceptibility. I agree, Helmut, that when it was just a question of complying with the government, I wasn't very enthused about the testing. Why should I spend money testing for something that our sheep don't get? However, my interest perked up when I started reading that blackbelly sheep might have a very unique genetic resistance to scrapie. In basic marketing terms, if we have something that no one else has, and everyone wants it (especially if the government is telling them they have to), then it would be to our advantage to figure out why we have that something and then figure out a way to capitalize on selling it to the have-nots. Part of learning whether or not blackbelly sheep have a unique genetic scrapie resistance involves learning the genetic makeup of our sheep, and that requires that we test them. The more of us that test our animals, the more data we have. And if that data indicates a uniqueness in our genetics, then we will have an easier time getting one of the researchers interested. If, through research, we learn that our sheep have a "magic bullet" in their genetics, then the market for blackbelly sheep will skyrocket. That's my logic, anyway! Carol At 01:31 PM 5/26/2006 -0700, you wrote: >Did anyone of you ever observe in BB scrapie ? > >Our province has never had any scrapie, but you should see how much money >the Govenment is willing to put in, hundredthousands of dollars.For what, >something nobody realy knows about ? > >And than have a look how much is done, to keep a breed as BB in good >conditon. > >But the real problem maker is not the Govenment, it is the Farmer who >accepts what ever the Government tells him to do. > >Before I have to do Scrapie testing in my sheep, sheep which never have had >any Scrapie, seems better for me to give sheep farming up.Let others do and >look about the succes they gone have. >That's the way I see it ___ This message is from the blackbelly mailing list Visit the list's homepage at %http://www.blackbellysheep.info
Re: [blackbelly] scrapie testing
See, all my African sheep are resistant. And that's enough for me to know.To follow a Government enforced scrapie program, something very different. Wait and see.Johnes disease, which is spreading in Mexico in large and Caribbean breeds not able to cope with, much more important to look at. Can't see why BB then the market for blackbelly sheep will skyrocket..., as they are unable to produce even 1/4 of a good wool sheep in flock does. The parasite resistance story about BB and St Croix, I have had them here in large numbers ask the guys in Texas, running a 1000 head of ewe, which breed are parasite resistant. For to make money, with breeds available, BB would never work.With Texel hybrids you make just 3 times the money, as they are able to handle the parasiste much better. I still have 10 year old Texel hybrid ewes, giving birth in November, and now an other set of twins. BBout of 600 head, may a 5 survived , the day we went out of drenching.With out medicamentation it is absolute impossible to run a larger herd of BB On no list you see such amount of problems as on the BB list, that should open our eyes and ask us, where to invest into the breed regards Helmut - Original Message - From: "Carol J. Elkins" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> To: Sent: Friday, May 26, 2006 2:42 PM Subject: Re: [blackbelly] scrapie testing > There are a lot of reasons that blackbelly owners might want to test their > sheep for scrapie susceptibility. I agree, Helmut, that when it was just a > question of complying with the government, I wasn't very enthused about > the > testing. Why should I spend money testing for something that our sheep > don't get? > > However, my interest perked up when I started reading that blackbelly > sheep > might have a very unique genetic resistance to scrapie. In basic marketing > terms, if we have something that no one else has, and everyone wants it > (especially if the government is telling them they have to), then it would > be to our advantage to figure out why we have that something and then > figure out a way to capitalize on selling it to the have-nots. > > Part of learning whether or not blackbelly sheep have a unique genetic > scrapie resistance involves learning the genetic makeup of our sheep, and > that requires that we test them. The more of us that test our animals, the > more data we have. And if that data indicates a uniqueness in our > genetics, > then we will have an easier time getting one of the researchers > interested. > If, through research, we learn that our sheep have a "magic bullet" in > their genetics, then the market for blackbelly sheep will skyrocket. > > That's my logic, anyway! > > Carol > > At 01:31 PM 5/26/2006 -0700, you wrote: >>Did anyone of you ever observe in BB scrapie ? >> >>Our province has never had any scrapie, but you should see how much money >>the Govenment is willing to put in, hundredthousands of dollars.For what, >>something nobody realy knows about ? >> >>And than have a look how much is done, to keep a breed as BB in good >>conditon. >> >>But the real problem maker is not the Govenment, it is the Farmer who >>accepts what ever the Government tells him to do. >> >>Before I have to do Scrapie testing in my sheep, sheep which never have >>had >>any Scrapie, seems better for me to give sheep farming up.Let others do >>and >>look about the succes they gone have. >>That's the way I see it > > ___ > This message is from the blackbelly mailing list > Visit the list's homepage at %http://www.blackbellysheep.info > > > -- > No virus found in this incoming message. > Checked by AVG Free Edition. > Version: 7.1.394 / Virus Database: 268.7.2/349 - Release Date: 26/05/2006 > > ___ This message is from the blackbelly mailing list Visit the list's homepage at %http://www.blackbellysheep.info
Re: [blackbelly] scrapie testing
Whoa! Are we not trying to breed out the influence of other breeds in the BB? The AB, by accidental design, is a mixed breed, with many of the physical characteristics of the original BB. There are SOME AB breeders wanting to breed for more than just trophy horns-- overall structure, carcass quality and genetic health being their goal. And that is how a "pure" breed gets established-- careful genetic manipulation by controlled breeding. I know that is the purpose, supposedly, of everyone that joins the BB consortium. I sit and watch other sheep forums, as well, in order to learn more about sheep in general-- and I see the same types of issues, in perhaps the same numbers, on them, with the woollies and other hair sheep. The purpose of a hair sheep is NOT to produce wool-- it is to produce meat--on the forums where several breeds are covered, it is unanimous that hair sheep cost less to raise to maturity/slaughter. They seem to do better on forage that the woolies do not fare well on. And of course, being from warmer climes, the hair sheep are readily adapted to our warmer areas-- and in the colder ones, they do grow a protective winter coat-- here in the US, a lot of wool goes to waste. What is sold is sold to a small market of hand spinners and knitters. the market is very tight-- so much so, that I have noticed the prices on the alpaca products dropping like lead bricks! Even the so called "premium" fibers are not demanding a decent price. We have to test/be in a program if we want to be able to particiapte in anyimprted semen program-- so we grit our teeth, and particiapate-- not willingly, but we do. And yes, Johnes is a much more serious thing to be worrying about-- but we do need to be able to rake advantage of any "fresh" genetics we can get further down the road. Of course, we can help keep resisteance in our flocks by minimizing the chemical interventions we make. We can cull poor lambing ewes, por mothers, etc. Unfortuneately, the genetics game is an expensive one--I priced the cost of the basic equipment to "start" the genetic screening process, and I do not believe any of us in the BB, or even the AB, have 10 Thousand USD, to spend on just part of the process!! (That does not include the fees to license the use of the equipment) And, to top it off, the equipment I found was not even geared towards sheep--probably making the cost even higher for such a specialty testing program. many of us here do not like Uncle Sam playing "Big Brother" but there are some things we just cannot try to get under the radar with.. So we test, and we comply, bust just ebough to stay legal... Terry W --- hlang <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > See, all my African sheep are resistant. > > And that's enough for me to know.To follow a > Government enforced scrapie > program, something very different. > > Wait and see.Johnes disease, which is spreading in > Mexico in large and > Caribbean breeds not able to cope with, much more > important to look at. > > Can't see why BB then the market for blackbelly > sheep will skyrocket..., > as they are unable to produce even 1/4 of a good > wool sheep in flock does. > The parasite resistance story about BB and St Croix, > I have had them here in > large numbers > ask the guys in Texas, running a 1000 head of ewe, > which breed are parasite > resistant. > > For to make money, with breeds available, BB would > never work.With Texel > hybrids you make just 3 times the money, as they are > able to handle the > parasiste much better. > I still have 10 year old Texel hybrid ewes, giving > birth in November, and > now an other set of twins. > BBout of 600 head, may a 5 survived , the day we > went out of > drenching.With out medicamentation it is absolute > impossible to run a larger > herd of BB > On no list you see such amount of problems as on the > BB list, that should > open our eyes and ask us, where to invest into the > breed > > regards Helmut > - Original Message - > From: "Carol J. Elkins" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> > To: > Sent: Friday, May 26, 2006 2:42 PM > Subject: Re: [blackbelly] scrapie testing > > > > There are a lot of reasons that blackbelly owners > might want to test their > > sheep for scrapie susceptibility. I agree, Helmut, > that when it was just a > > question of complying with the government, I > wasn't very enthused about > > the > > testing. Why should I spend money testing for > something that our sheep > > don't get? > > > > However, my interest perked up when I started > reading that blackbelly > > sheep > > might have a very unique genetic resistance to > scrapie. In basic marketing > > term
Re: [blackbelly] scrapie testing
Very good information, thank you. But: They seem to do better on forage that the woolies do not fare well on. Working with a few thousand hair sheep in different breeds, and on side a 300 wool sheep in different breeds, no way that the average hair sheep even would come close to the production of the woolies. What has to do with the small number of hair sheep which are on the market, genetically too close. How do you like to compete against a Ile de France, where a Government did invest many Millions of Dollars to improve, against a St Croix, where no money has been invested ? St Croix on our ranch do not survive under normal management more than a 5 months, or I have to use medicamentation.But steady I read article of farmers with small and well protected flocks, how parasite resistant those sheep are.And that is not true once the flock is crowed and under stress. And about hot climate?Mexico imported large numbers of Ile de Franc, and they do in hot climate extreme well. And Mexico imported more than a 100 000 hair sheep, of very resistant type. I see Mexico producing lamb for US in large scale very soon.High quality wool/hair hybrid lambs. The Mexicans invest in meat production, and that's where we don't look at enough. About ..."Big > Brother" but there are some things we just cannot try > to get under the radar with.. most of the large Texas sheep breeders wrote me, that they have been forced in the scrapie program. I have seen one thing in my live, where ever the public did adapt too much to the government orders, country in short time in dept. See Germany , as example, always head down and they do what the Government is telling them.No money in the country. Switzerland? One the Government did artificial bring the price for butter up, the Swiss did not eat butter for a year.After that the Government gave up and butter was even cheaper than before. Strong democratie works with commonsense and does not accept money vaste. Regards Helmut - Original Message - From: "Terry Wereb" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> To: Sent: Saturday, May 27, 2006 8:48 AM Subject: Re: [blackbelly] scrapie testing > Whoa! > > Are we not trying to breed out the influence of other > breeds in the BB? The AB, by accidental design, is a > mixed breed, with many of the physical characteristics > of the original BB. There are SOME AB breeders wanting > to breed for more than just trophy horns-- overall > structure, carcass quality and genetic health being > their goal. And that is how a "pure" breed gets > established-- careful genetic manipulation by > controlled breeding. I know that is the purpose, > supposedly, of everyone that joins the BB consortium. > I sit and watch other sheep forums, as well, in > order to learn more about sheep in general-- and I see > the same types of issues, in perhaps the same numbers, > on them, with the woollies and other hair sheep. > > The purpose of a hair sheep is NOT to produce wool-- > it is to produce meat--on the forums where several > breeds are covered, it is unanimous that hair sheep > cost less to raise to maturity/slaughter. They seem to > do better on forage that the woolies do not fare well > on. And of course, being from warmer climes, the hair > sheep are readily adapted to our warmer areas-- and in > the colder ones, they do grow a protective winter > coat-- > > here in the US, a lot of wool goes to waste. What is > sold is sold to a small market of hand spinners and > knitters. the market is very tight-- so much so, that > I have noticed the prices on the alpaca products > dropping like lead bricks! Even the so called > "premium" fibers are not demanding a decent price. > > We have to test/be in a program if we want to be able > to particiapte in anyimprted semen program-- so we > grit our teeth, and particiapate-- not willingly, but > we do. And yes, Johnes is a much more serious thing > to be worrying about-- but we do need to be able to > rake advantage of any "fresh" genetics we can get > further down the road. Of course, we can help keep > resisteance in our flocks by minimizing the chemical > interventions we make. We can cull poor lambing ewes, > por mothers, etc. Unfortuneately, the genetics game is > an expensive one--I priced the cost of the basic > equipment to "start" the genetic screening process, > and I do not believe any of us in the BB, or even the > AB, have 10 Thousand USD, to spend on just part of the > process!! (That does not include the fees to license > the use of the equipment) And, to top it off, the > equipment I found was not even geared towards > sheep--probably making the cost even higher for such a > specialty testing program. > > many of us here do not like Uncle Sam play
Re: [blackbelly] scrapie testing
Well, why would you want to raise any sheep that are crowded and under stress? There really is no reason to raise sheep that way. Stephanie On May 27, 2006, at 12:21 PM, hlang wrote: > I read article of > farmers with small and well protected flocks, how parasite resistant > those > sheep are.And that is not true once the flock is crowed and under > stress. ___ This message is from the blackbelly mailing list Visit the list's homepage at %http://www.blackbellysheep.info
Re: [blackbelly] scrapie testing
Why do you think that the Barbados sheep are so fragile, as we see on this list week by week? Because the selection is very difficult if raised in small number. Once the animal is raised in large number, only the best survive. That's why the African sheep, always in contact with wildlife, are extremely resistant and able to survive in difficult terrain. Only those imports which came out of large flocks, herds over a 3000 heads, did survive here in our climate. If you like to get fragile sheep, take them from an quarantine station, university or an island, where they have not been in contact with any disease or not managed in large number, with out pressure on selection. regards Helmut - Original Message - From: "Stephanie Parrish" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> To: Sent: Saturday, May 27, 2006 1:55 PM Subject: Re: [blackbelly] scrapie testing > Well, why would you want to raise any sheep that are crowded and under > stress? There really is no reason to raise sheep that way. > Stephanie > > On May 27, 2006, at 12:21 PM, hlang wrote: > >> I read article of >> farmers with small and well protected flocks, how parasite resistant >> those >> sheep are.And that is not true once the flock is crowed and under >> stress. > > ___ > This message is from the blackbelly mailing list > Visit the list's homepage at %http://www.blackbellysheep.info > > > -- > No virus found in this incoming message. > Checked by AVG Free Edition. > Version: 7.1.394 / Virus Database: 268.7.2/349 - Release Date: 26/05/2006 > > ___ This message is from the blackbelly mailing list Visit the list's homepage at %http://www.blackbellysheep.info
Re: [blackbelly] scrapie testing
While what you say about only the best surviving difficult environments has merit, I believe there are better ways to select for resistant sheep than overcrowding them. Such as culling the ones that need deworming or frequent medical assistance. I don't know the genetics of all the sheep we hear about on this list, nor do I know all that much about the American Blackbelly or Barbado. But I believe that the Barbados Blackbelly, which is closer to the original African animal than the American Blackbelly, is hardy and much more parasite resistant than most wooled sheep. I see no reason why good pasture management and multispecies rotational grazing without either overcrowding or medical intervention would select for fragility among BB sheep. In fact, the multiple species aspect may well simulate contact with wildlife as happens in Africa. Cheers, Stephanie On May 27, 2006, at 11:10 PM, hlang wrote: > Why do you think that the Barbados sheep are so fragile, as we see on > this > list week by week? > Because the selection is very difficult if raised in small number. > > Once the animal is raised in large number, only the best survive. > > That's why the African sheep, always in contact with wildlife, are > extremely > resistant and able to survive in difficult terrain. Only those imports > which > came out of large flocks, herds over a 3000 heads, did survive here in > our > climate. > > If you like to get fragile sheep, take them from an quarantine station, > university or an island, where they have not been in contact with any > disease or not managed in large number, with out pressure on selection. > > regards Helmut > - Original Message - > From: "Stephanie Parrish" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> > To: > Sent: Saturday, May 27, 2006 1:55 PM > Subject: Re: [blackbelly] scrapie testing > > >> Well, why would you want to raise any sheep that are crowded and under >> stress? There really is no reason to raise sheep that way. >> Stephanie >> >> On May 27, 2006, at 12:21 PM, hlang wrote: >> >>> I read article of >>> farmers with small and well protected flocks, how parasite resistant >>> those >>> sheep are.And that is not true once the flock is crowed and under >>> stress. >> >> ___ >> This message is from the blackbelly mailing list >> Visit the list's homepage at %http://www.blackbellysheep.info >> >> >> -- >> No virus found in this incoming message. >> Checked by AVG Free Edition. >> Version: 7.1.394 / Virus Database: 268.7.2/349 - Release Date: >> 26/05/2006 >> >> > > ___ > This message is from the blackbelly mailing list > Visit the list's homepage at %http://www.blackbellysheep.info > ___ This message is from the blackbelly mailing list Visit the list's homepage at %http://www.blackbellysheep.info
Re: [blackbelly] scrapie testing/Johnes Long
I got sort of heckled off the Shedders list for bringing up mineral imbalances as causes for certain health problems. I got scoffed at because I might be reading Pat Coleby's books on natural animal care. Well, I do read Pat Coleby and she was the one who alerted me to the lack of copper in the diet as a cause for lack of resistance to a lot of diseases, including Johne's and parasites. My flock was suffering from a lot of low grade health issues. Some of those issues got pretty serious. The vets just kept saying worm 'em. Treat 'em for cocci. I dunno. These are lousy sheep. They're always dying. THREE vets couldn't make my sheep well. With a lot of trepidation, I mixed up Coleby's mineral lick which is blue with copper sulfate, but which has other minerals that buffer the copper. The sheep broke out in a war over the mix. When each in turn had gotten a tiny amount they pretty well ignored it, though they would go to it occasionally, dab their tongues in it, then go away. At this point, I went through a lot of agony, thinking I had poisoned my flock. But instead, I saw an abrupt end to virtually ALL the problems I was having. One lamb I was calling Rat Boy because he was so scruffy, is growing up into a gorgeous wether. And the really wierd thing is looking at fecal samples under the microscope. At a time when the ewes should be shedding eggs like crazy, there is hardly one. But what I have seen, is a nematode-like thing with one end blown out. Several of them. Maybe they get parasites, but their boosted immune system kills them??? Copper boosts the immune system and Coleby cites instances where farmers have bought Johne's bulls, put them on copper sufficient pastures and never had another symptom. It's all anecdotal, certainly not scientific. But we are CONSTANTLY being told not to give copper to the sheep without regard for what's actually in their feed. I analyzed all our feed and found out that the hay (including alfalfa pellets) is all sub-par for sheep in copper. But the BIG problem is that there is too much molybdenum. The ratio should be 6-10 parts copper to 1 part moly, and we were typically getting 2 parts copper to 1 part moly, when the copper wasn't adequate to begin with. In one alfalfa pellet sample we got 2X the TOXIC level of iron. There is too much potassium, which ties up the magnesium, which is probably why grass tetany is such a problem. It's not a lack of magnesium, which is adequate, it's way too much potassium. On all the hay samples the iron was way too high. But interestingly, our new crop of hay is off land that has not been chemically farmed in many years. A lot of the values are still off, but the iron content of the forage is 1/4 of the chemically farmed hay, just .04 above the upper limit for sheep. The hay came from a field about a mile away from the high-iron field that has been chemically farmed. Good for my sheep, bad for the hay field - All the nutrition from that field left that field and came to mine, where it will be run through the sheep and horses, and then enhanced, as compost, will go to nourish MY pasture, MY sheep all over again. That field will never be replenished and will eventually give out because all the nutrients are being transported off of it, never to return. I think that all this "sudden" susceptibility of animals to immune deficiency diseases like Johne's is a direct result of the degraded soils and the garbage the animals get fed in the feed lots. Ground chicken feathers? From chickens raised in factories? We're all blaming the animals and ourselves for selecting for one trait while disregarding another. When are we going to start looking at the soil??? Even humans are falling to new diseases every day. You can't go a day reading the newspaper without some new disease being reported. Does it have something to do with growing up at McDonald's, eating cardboard pizza and TV dinners? Tomatoes that ship rather than nourish? You can get three times the hay off a field that's been chemically fertilized, but that means its stripping three times the available minerals out of the ground at the same time - minerals that aren't being replaced by triple-16. You've got lignin and cellulose and artificially created protein - and all the heavy metals and crap that came with the fertilizer. The vital natural elements that create health are going, going, gone. I think our blackbellies have a HEAP of resistance to all sorts of stuff. But they are a product of the earth and the grass, just like we are. ALL our health starts right under our feet. We ARE responsible for bringing robust animals into the world. But all the genetic health on the planet, rolled into one animal, is a waste if the animal doesn't have one basic element to survive. Interestingly, it takes LESS selenium to kill a sheep than it does copper. The requirement for selenium is less than 2 p
Re: [blackbelly] scrapie testing/Johnes Long
Don't like to border too much with my writing. But for years, and Carol remembers that, I tell one thing: Blackbellies need much more copper, up to three times more than wool sheep. For example, with a copper level where a BB just drives well, a Texel would die in a time of three weeks. Now, if you select BB or AB with out sufficient copper , than you select just to the opposite . You create over the years a sheep which is much similar to average breed.The african or caribean type of sheep need a lot of copper and zinc to developpe parasite resistance. So the selection should be, as much copper as possible, to see which lines are able to handle that. And once you have the lines back , the gentics which can handle lots of copper, than you have as well the parasite resistance.Wool sheep do not need the copper for parasite resistance, as long as they have baltic blood. Last year we decided to feed the same feed to cattle ( 60 heads) as to our sheep. You know what happened to us? Plenty of lambs, the ewes are rebreed shortly after birth and lambs are coming and grow well. Cattle? Only one calf survied, they could not handle the spoiled silage. 15 years of harsh selection in sheep made the sheep way harder and healthier than my cattle. Why? Because in the first years, our cattle have been much better in regarding health than our sheep.So I did not cull so hard.. regards Helmut - Original Message - From: "Barb Lee" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> To: Sent: Saturday, May 27, 2006 9:04 AM Subject: Re: [blackbelly] scrapie testing/Johnes Long > > I got sort of heckled off the Shedders list for bringing up mineral > imbalances as causes for certain health problems. I got scoffed at > because I might be reading Pat Coleby's books on natural animal care. > > Well, I do read Pat Coleby and she was the one who alerted me to the > lack of copper in the diet as a cause for lack of resistance to a lot of > diseases, including Johne's and parasites. > > My flock was suffering from a lot of low grade health issues. Some of > those issues got pretty serious. The vets just kept saying worm 'em. > Treat 'em for cocci. I dunno. These are lousy sheep. They're always > dying. THREE vets couldn't make my sheep well. > > With a lot of trepidation, I mixed up Coleby's mineral lick which is > blue with copper sulfate, but which has other minerals that buffer the > copper. > > The sheep broke out in a war over the mix. When each in turn had gotten > a tiny amount they pretty well ignored it, though they would go to it > occasionally, dab their tongues in it, then go away. > > At this point, I went through a lot of agony, thinking I had poisoned my > flock. But instead, I saw an abrupt end to virtually ALL the problems I > was having. > > One lamb I was calling Rat Boy because he was so scruffy, is growing up > into a gorgeous wether. And the really wierd thing is looking at fecal > samples under the microscope. At a time when the ewes should be > shedding eggs like crazy, there is hardly one. But what I have seen, is > a nematode-like thing with one end blown out. Several of them. Maybe > they get parasites, but their boosted immune system kills them??? > > Copper boosts the immune system and Coleby cites instances where farmers > have bought Johne's bulls, put them on copper sufficient pastures and > never had another symptom. > > It's all anecdotal, certainly not scientific. But we are CONSTANTLY > being told not to give copper to the sheep without regard for what's > actually in their feed. I analyzed all our feed and found out that the > hay (including alfalfa pellets) is all sub-par for sheep in copper. But > the BIG problem is that there is too much molybdenum. The ratio should > be 6-10 parts copper to 1 part moly, and we were typically getting 2 > parts copper to 1 part moly, when the copper wasn't adequate to begin > with. In one alfalfa pellet sample we got 2X the TOXIC level of iron. > There is too much potassium, which ties up the magnesium, which is > probably why grass tetany is such a problem. It's not a lack of > magnesium, which is adequate, it's way too much potassium. On all the > hay samples the iron was way too high. But interestingly, our new crop > of hay is off land that has not been chemically farmed in many years. A > lot of the values are still off, but the iron content of the forage is > 1/4 of the chemically farmed hay, just .04 above the upper limit for > sheep. The hay came from a field about a mile away from the high-iron > field that has been chemically farmed. Good for my sheep, bad for the > hay field - All the nutrition from that field left that field and came > to mine, where it will be run through the
Re: [blackbelly] scrapie testing/Johnes Long
Barb-- you need to join the "Living off the alnd list" you have it down pat!!! Soil health IS super important to OUR health-- The is an environmental re=term-- called "primary production" which refers to the amount of energy produced directly from the sunlight interaction with plants. If the plants ar not healthy, that production DROPS Yo uhave the right idea, we can only help our sheep enjoy their natural reistance by doing what we can to make sure they have what they need to implement that resistance. Good, solid soapbox terry W ___ This message is from the blackbelly mailing list Visit the list's homepage at %http://www.blackbellysheep.info
