Re: CDs 'could be history in five years'

[Ronn!Blankenship]

Good thing I never replaced most of my 8-tracks with CDs, huh?



At 11:37 PM 11/12/03 -0600, Robert Seeberger wrote:
http://www.ananova.com/news/story/sm_837803.html?menu=news.latestheadlines

Compact discs could be history within five years, superseded by a new
generation of fingertip-sized memory tabs with no moving parts.
Scientists say each paper-thin device could store more than a gigabyte of
information - equivalent to 1,000 high quality images - in one cubic
centimetre of space.
Experts have developed the technology by melding together organic and
inorganic materials in a unique way.
They say it could be used to produce a single-use memory card that
permanently stores data and is faster and easier to operate than a CD.
It's claimed that turning the invention into a commercially viable product
might take as little as five years.
The card would not involve any moving parts, such as the laser and motor
drive required by compact discs. Its secret is the discovery of a previously
unknown property of a commonly-used conductive plastic coating.
US scientists at Princeton University, New Jersey, and computer giants
Hewlett-Packard combined the polymer with very thin-film, silicon-based
electronics.
The device would be like a standard CD-R (CD-recordable) disc in that
writing data onto it makes permanent changes and can only be done once. But
it would also resemble a computer memory chip, because it would plug
directly into an electronic circuit and have no moving parts.
A report in the journal Nature described how the researchers identified a
new property of a polymer called PEDOT.
PEDOT, which is clear and conducts electricity, has been used for years as
an anti-static coating on photographic film. Researchers looked at ways of
using PEDOT to store digital information. In the new memory card, data in
the form of ones and zeroes would be represented by polymer pixels.
When information is recorded, higher voltages at certain points in the
circuit grid would "blow" the PEDOT fuses at those points. As a result, data
is permanently etched into the device. A blown fuse would from then on be
read as a zero, while an unblown one that lets current pass through is read
as a one.


xponent

New News Maru

rob

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Re: Bishops to punish catholic politicians who disobey Pope

[Ronn!Blankenship]

At 11:29 PM 11/12/03 -0600, The Fool wrote to John D. Giorgis:

Are you drunk or high?


Are you?



-- Ronn!  :)

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CDs 'could be history in five years'

[Robert Seeberger]

http://www.ananova.com/news/story/sm_837803.html?menu=news.latestheadlines

Compact discs could be history within five years, superseded by a new
generation of fingertip-sized memory tabs with no moving parts.

Scientists say each paper-thin device could store more than a gigabyte of
information - equivalent to 1,000 high quality images - in one cubic
centimetre of space.

Experts have developed the technology by melding together organic and
inorganic materials in a unique way.

They say it could be used to produce a single-use memory card that
permanently stores data and is faster and easier to operate than a CD.

It's claimed that turning the invention into a commercially viable product
might take as little as five years.

The card would not involve any moving parts, such as the laser and motor
drive required by compact discs. Its secret is the discovery of a previously
unknown property of a commonly-used conductive plastic coating.

US scientists at Princeton University, New Jersey, and computer giants
Hewlett-Packard combined the polymer with very thin-film, silicon-based
electronics.

The device would be like a standard CD-R (CD-recordable) disc in that
writing data onto it makes permanent changes and can only be done once. But
it would also resemble a computer memory chip, because it would plug
directly into an electronic circuit and have no moving parts.

A report in the journal Nature described how the researchers identified a
new property of a polymer called PEDOT.

PEDOT, which is clear and conducts electricity, has been used for years as
an anti-static coating on photographic film. Researchers looked at ways of
using PEDOT to store digital information. In the new memory card, data in
the form of ones and zeroes would be represented by polymer pixels.

When information is recorded, higher voltages at certain points in the
circuit grid would "blow" the PEDOT fuses at those points. As a result, data
is permanently etched into the device. A blown fuse would from then on be
read as a zero, while an unblown one that lets current pass through is read
as a one.



xponent

New News Maru

rob


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Re: Bishops to punish catholic politicians who disobey Pope

[The Fool]

> From: John D. Giorgis <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
> 
> At 12:28 PM 11/12/2003 -0600 The Fool wrote:
> >WASHINGTON - Frustrated that so many Catholic politicians support
> >abortion rights, the bishops of the United States said yesterday they
> >will begin evaluating whether they can impose sanctions against
elected
> >officials who vote contrary to church teachings
> 
> Shocking development The Fool posts another article with a subject
line
> that both insults and misleads as to the true contents of the article.

In what way is it misleading or even insulting?
 
> Its a good thing Catholics are Jews Fool, or else you might really have
> gotten yourself in trouble at the very least you probably wouldn't
be
> allowed to write football columns any more

This is most incoherent thing JDG has written that I have read.  (And
thats saying something).  I have no clue whatsoever as what it means.  I
am lost.

> JDG - Who wonders if he should be proud in some sense that those who
you
> use code words for anti-Catholic bigotry aren't immediately driven out
of
> the public forum.

What code words?  What exactly are you talking about?  Are you drunk or
high?

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RE: [L3] RE: religious/political question

[ritu]

Erik Reuter wrote:

> > I remember most of the 120 million muslims of my country 
> speaking out
> > against the atrocity.
> 
> You must have a phenomenal memory! I can only remember 120 people on a
> good day, let alone 120 MILLION!

 *g*

Not that phenomenal...hmm, how about this: 'In the aftermath of 9/11, a
large number of Indian muslims spoke out against the atrocity. In fact,
only a few of the 120 million Indian muslims spoke in favour of OBL and
they were condemned/criticised/stoned for doing so.'

Is that better? :)

Ritu
GCU Attempting Precisionhttp://www.mccmedia.com/mailman/listinfo/brin-l

Re: Bishops to punish catholic politicians who disobey Pope

[John D. Giorgis]

At 12:28 PM 11/12/2003 -0600 The Fool wrote:
>WASHINGTON - Frustrated that so many Catholic politicians support
>abortion rights, the bishops of the United States said yesterday they
>will begin evaluating whether they can impose sanctions against elected
>officials who vote contrary to church teachings

Shocking development The Fool posts another article with a subject line
that both insults and misleads as to the true contents of the article.

Its a good thing Catholics are Jews Fool, or else you might really have
gotten yourself in trouble at the very least you probably wouldn't be
allowed to write football columns any more

JDG - Who wonders if he should be proud in some sense that those who you
use code words for anti-Catholic bigotry aren't immediately driven out of
the public forum.
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Re: Empire Of Lies

[Dan Minette]

- Original Message - 
From: "John D. Giorgis" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: "Killer Bs Discussion" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Sent: Wednesday, November 12, 2003 10:01 PM
Subject: Re: Empire Of Lies


At 04:46 PM 11/12/2003 -0800 Gautam Mukunda wrote:
>--- Dan Minette <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
>> I'll agree fully that the average person in Iraq is
>> better off now than a
>> year ago.  But, the overwhelming majority in Iraq
>> sees the US as an
>> occupier, not a liberator.  And, their opinion of
>> us, as measured in polls,
>> is rapidly deteriorating.
>> Dan M.
>
>Dan, I have to tell you that I frankly don't believe
>this.  As you know, I have personal reasons for
>keeping a _very_ close eye on the situation in Iraq,
>and I frankly don't trust the poll results that you
>reported - they don't agree with any other poll that
>I've seen, and they don't agree with the consensus of
>people on the ground whom I've spoken to either.

Indeed, as I noted in a previous post, _The Economist_ published poll
results that contradict Dan's impressions just this week.

Here it is again:
A survey out this week revealed that, while most endorse democracy and
women's rights, many wonder whether democracy can work in Iraq. Most would
like some form of Islamic rule-and want the coalition forces out. But
three-quarters of Iraqis also think that in five years they will be better
off.

How does this contradict what I said?  I was talking about the viewpoint of
the US, not their views of their own future.

Let me quote a set of answers from the poll at:

www.taemag.com/docLib/20030905_IraqpollFrequencies.pdf

1) Do you think that Iraq will be a much better country, somewhat better,
somewhat worse or a lot worse five years from now?

much better 31.7%
somewhat better  38.0%
somewhat worse  13.2%
a lot worse   7.4%



16. Over next five years will -The United States


Help Iraq  35.5
Hurt Iraq  50.2


17. Over next five years will -The United Nations


Help Iraq  50.2
Hurt Iraq   18.5


If these answers came from two different polls, then one might be tempted
to state that the polls contradicted each other.  But, its from the same
sample group; the questions are taken from the same questionnaire. Indeed,
it sounds as though this might be very poll that the economist quotes.

Another thing to note is that this, as well as the other polls I've
mentioned, were taken last August.  There are indications that attitudes
have deteriorated since then.  It will be interesting to see the trends
when these various polling companies come out with their results.

Now, it is possible that all of the polls are inaccurate; I'd be willing to
believe that there might be something to be said about techniques that work
well in the US or Europe not being as robust in Iraq.  But, I would like to
see why other techniques of understanding are superior.

Finally, it should be noted that, as skeptical as the people are about the
US, a third wanted us out in 6 months, and a quarter wanted us out in a
year, and a third wanted us out in 2+ years (roughly). So, the feelings
were still at least mixed in August.  Putting the results together, there
have to be some people who think the US will hurt Iraq over the next 5
years but still don't want us to leave too soon.



Dan M.


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Re: Empire Of Lies

[John D. Giorgis]

At 04:46 PM 11/12/2003 -0800 Gautam Mukunda wrote:
>--- Dan Minette <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
>> I'll agree fully that the average person in Iraq is
>> better off now than a
>> year ago.  But, the overwhelming majority in Iraq
>> sees the US as an
>> occupier, not a liberator.  And, their opinion of
>> us, as measured in polls,
>> is rapidly deteriorating.
>> Dan M.
>
>Dan, I have to tell you that I frankly don't believe
>this.  As you know, I have personal reasons for
>keeping a _very_ close eye on the situation in Iraq,
>and I frankly don't trust the poll results that you
>reported - they don't agree with any other poll that
>I've seen, and they don't agree with the consensus of
>people on the ground whom I've spoken to either.

Indeed, as I noted in a previous post, _The Economist_ published poll
results that contradict Dan's impressions just this week.

Here it is again:
A survey out this week revealed that, while most endorse democracy and
women's rights, many wonder whether democracy can work in Iraq. Most would
like some form of Islamic rule—and want the coalition forces out. But
three-quarters of Iraqis also think that in five years they will be better
off. 

JDG
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eBay auction - SpaceDev Satellite Mission

[Gary Nunn]

Finally someone came up with a good idea to fund a mission


eBay Item number: 2572382454 - SpaceDev Satellite Mission

Did On Your Own Space Mission
This view of Earth could be yours!
 
Have you ever thought about having your own space mission? Do you have a
payload that you would like to put in orbit around the Earth? Need a
holiday gift for the person who has everything? Have you ever wondered
what it would be like to explore space with your own spacecraft?  Now,
you can, thanks to SpaceDev.

See the auction here
http://makeashorterlink.com/?X54523686



SpaceDev Auctioning Microsatellite Mission On eBay
By Jason Bates
Space News Staff Writer
posted: 11:15 am ET
11 November 2003

WASHINGTON - The small satellite startup SpaceDev is auctioning a
private space mission to the highest bidder using the Internet site
eBay, the company announced Monday. 

The winner will receive a spacecraft based on SpaceDev's Maneuvering and
Orbit Transfer Vehicle and has the right to supply their own payload and
name the mission. 

Complete article
http://www.space.com/news/ebay_spacedev_03.html

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RE: What not to say at the piercing parlor

[Jim Sharkey]

Jon Gabriel wrote:
>http://www.lipsmackin.com/labia.shtml

heeheehee.  Ah, to be twelve and know it all again.

Jim

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Re: Empire Of Lies

[Dan Minette]

- Original Message - 
From: "Gautam Mukunda" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: "Killer Bs Discussion" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Sent: Wednesday, November 12, 2003 6:46 PM
Subject: Re: Empire Of Lies


> --- Dan Minette <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> > I'll agree fully that the average person in Iraq is
> > better off now than a
> > year ago.  But, the overwhelming majority in Iraq
> > sees the US as an
> > occupier, not a liberator.  And, their opinion of
> > us, as measured in polls,
> > is rapidly deteriorating.
> > Dan M.
>
> Dan, I have to tell you that I frankly don't believe
> this.  As you know, I have personal reasons for
> keeping a _very_ close eye on the situation in Iraq,
> and I frankly don't trust the poll results that you
> reported - they don't agree with any other poll that
> I've seen, and they don't agree with the consensus of
> people on the ground whom I've spoken to either.

I've seen multiple polls that say variations on the same thing.  As it
stands, I've seen three polls that give consistent results: Gallup, Zogby,
and a poll conducted by the Iraqi Centre for Research and Strategic
Studies.

Which poll did you think was the bad one, or are all three bad?  Which
polls are the good ones.


I don't doubt that you know more people there, but I have one question
about them.  How many of them are there as part of the provisional
authority and how many are there with other independent agencies.  The
reason I ask is that I believe that there is a cultural tendency in the
middle east to tell a guest what you think they want to hearespecially
if that person is more powerful than you.

Even if the poll by the centre for Research and Strategic Studies is
miscalibrated, I have a hard time understanding why the shift it shows is
fictional.

I would like to have it shown that I'm wrong here, because it would be
better for us if I am.  In order to do that, I'd like to see

1) The other polls
2) Why the techniques of the other polls are superior to those I've seen.

Dan M.


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Re: Continuing Education

[Robert Seeberger]

- Original Message - 
From: "Kevin Tarr" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: "Killer Bs Discussion" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Sent: Wednesday, November 12, 2003 5:28 AM
Subject: Re: Continuing Education


> Powell is not credited for any DP albums. If he toured with them, I cannot
> find it. But that's been covered elsewhere

Ack!

This is true. I had found a reference where he was credited with Deep
Purple, but further investigation proves that false. I didn't doubt it at
first since Powell was so deeply involved with Purple men with so many other
projects that his name is frequently associated with Deep Purple.


>
> Also covered: I'd consider Glam to be a small part of hair bands. They
were
> all hair bands, but only Poison or Twisted Sister I'd call glam.

Yeah.kind of a judgement call.

>
> Sorry about that Reggie. I agree 100% with a voice being an instrument,
but
> didn't think Plant was doing that much.

I find much of Plants vocals difficult to replicate. The guy definately does
(or did) some interesting stuff.

>
> I do like Coverdale, I just don't see any of his deep purple stuff as
> important.

I'd consider "Burn" to be a fairly important album. The late Tommy Bolins
guitar is worth the price of admission.

>And the flip side, I know less about DP than you think. I own no
> albums. I never thought the whole package was that good.
>

What!???
You don't own Machine Head?
Cretin!



xponent
Must Have Maru
rob


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Re: Empire Of Lies

[Gautam Mukunda]

--- Dan Minette <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> I'll agree fully that the average person in Iraq is
> better off now than a
> year ago.  But, the overwhelming majority in Iraq
> sees the US as an
> occupier, not a liberator.  And, their opinion of
> us, as measured in polls,
> is rapidly deteriorating.
> Dan M.

Dan, I have to tell you that I frankly don't believe
this.  As you know, I have personal reasons for
keeping a _very_ close eye on the situation in Iraq,
and I frankly don't trust the poll results that you
reported - they don't agree with any other poll that
I've seen, and they don't agree with the consensus of
people on the ground whom I've spoken to either.

=
Gautam Mukunda
[EMAIL PROTECTED]
"Freedom is not free"
http://www.mukunda.blogspot.com

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Re: Empire Of Lies

[Dan Minette]

- Original Message - 
From: "Dan Minette" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: "Killer Bs Discussion" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Sent: Wednesday, November 12, 2003 6:29 PM
Subject: Re: Empire Of Lies


> As a preamble, let me recount that I supported the military action in
> Afghanistan beforehand because I thought we could not let Al Quida a free
> pass after 9-11 and leaned against the military action in Iraq because I
> thought that
>
> 1) There was no clear and present danger to the US presented by Iraq,
even
> thought I was fairly sure

Ack, I didn't finish this idea

 Hussein did have a significant number of WMDs

2) We were unprepared to win the peace.

even thought I knew that overthrowing Hussein would improve the conditions
of the people of Iraq.


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Re: Empire Of Lies

[Dan Minette]

As a preamble, let me recount that I supported the military action in
Afghanistan beforehand because I thought we could not let Al Quida a free
pass after 9-11 and leaned against the military action in Iraq because I
thought that

1) There was no clear and present danger to the US presented by Iraq, even
thought I was fairly sure

>
> In fairness, we have accomplished some very important strategic objective
> in both Afghanistan and Iraq:
>
> 1) Al Qaeda can no longer train operatives with impunity in Afghanistan

I'll agree that's a plus; and its one of the reasons I supported going to
war in Afghanistan.

> 2) We have liberated 28 million oppressed Afghans

That overstates the case.  We have removed a repressive government in
Afghanistan and have replaced the rule in the capital with a much better
government.  The rest of the country, as far as I can tell, is ruled by
local power brokers.  We make sure there are limits to their use of force.
I wouldn't argue against the idea that the local power brokers are an
improvement over the Taliban.  But, I consider real liberation the point
where we can hand over control of the country (including responsibility for
security) to a government that is as good as the government of, say,
Jordan.


> 3) Al Qaeda's operational capacity has apparently taken a severe blow,
>based upon their recent concentration on "soft" targets in the developing
world
> instead of "hard" targets in Europe and the United States

> 4) Saddam Hussein is no longer a threat to develop nuclear weapons, and
> thus be  able to blackmail the US, Saudi Arabia (ie the world's oil
supply,
> and Israel)

There is no evidence that he made any moves towards developing a nuclear
weapon.  Indeed, all the evidence points to him being significantly closer
to having a A-bomb in 1991 than 2003. But, while we were looking the other
way, N. Korea crossed what everyone called a red line.  No one really knows
how much more plutonium they have processed this year.


> 5) US troops are no longer stationed in Saudi Arabia, eliminating a
primary
> grievance used by Al Qaeda to recruit operatives

As long as the US is occupying Iraq, Al Qaeda will have an even bigger
grievance. If it is clear that an independent Iraq government exists, then
us having a base there will not be a problem, but we are far away from
that.

> 6) 38 million oppressed Iraqis have been liberated.

I'll agree fully that the average person in Iraq is better off now than a
year ago.  But, the overwhelming majority in Iraq sees the US as an
occupier, not a liberator.  And, their opinion of us, as measured in polls,
is rapidly deteriorating.


> Has this solved all of our problems?

That wasn't the benchmark used by most people.  The real question is
whether the long losses to the US from invasion outweigh the long term
gains of the people of Iraq.  My guess/fear is that, 5 years from now, we
will find ourselves much more isolated from traditional allies (as it
stands we are tied with N. Korea and Iran in an European opinion poll
concerning which country is the greatest danger to the world.), at odds
with a dictatorship in Iraq that is probably better than Hussein, and with
an feeling of failure.

Even CIA analysis indicates that we are risking a turning point in Iraq;
where the forces fighting the US will be viewed less as old Bathists trying
to regain power and more as freedom fighters against foreign occupiers.
If this happens, things could get very nasty.  As it stands, the
administration has hinted at the start of the retreat from Iraq, saying we
the number of troops needed will be less...so we won't need to rotate
nearly as many troops in as we are rotating out.

My objection to going to war in Iraq was that we were not prepared to win
the peace.  Events of the last 6 months have reinforced that opinion.  My
suggestion was for us to work harder to win the peace in Afghanistan before
trying Iraq.  As it stands, Afghanistan will get less aid in 3 years than
Iraq in 1, even though the administration claimed that simply using Iraq
oil income for the people of Iraq would provide most of the funds needed to
rebuild Iraq.  My guess is that we will be mostly out of there within a
year, and then we will have to cross our fingers concerning the results.
My one sigma upside expectations is another Saudi Arabia.  My mean
expectations is something close to Iran.  My one sigma downside is chaos.

Dan M.





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Weekly Chat Reminder

[Steve Sloan II]

This is just a quick reminder that the Wednesday Brin-L chat
is scheduled for 3 PM Eastern/2 PM Central time in the US, or
7 PM Greenwich time, so it started about three hours ago. There
will probably be somebody there to talk to for at least eight
hours after the start time. See my instruction page for help
getting there:
http://www.brin-l.org/brinmud.html
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Steve Sloan . Huntsville, Alabama => [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Brin-L list pages .. http://www.brin-l.org
Chmeee's 3D Objects  http://www.sloan3d.com/chmeee
3D and Drawing Galleries .. http://www.sloansteady.com
Software  Science Fiction, Science, and Computer Links
Science fiction scans . http://www.sloan3d.com
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Re: [L3] RE: religious/political question

[William T Goodall]

On 12 Nov 2003, at 8:22 pm, Horn, John wrote:

From: Horn, John

It seems to me that if there were a major terrorist attack
(or natural disaster or whatever) at Mecca during the haij
you could find a fair number of Bubba's in pickups who would
be dancing in the streets and shooting their shotguns in the
air throughout the US.  So that may or may not be
demonstrative of the entire population.
Cr*p!  That should be Hajj, I think.

Star of 'Faster Pussycat  Kill, Kill' ?

http://www.fasterpussycathaji.com/

What a nice lady! She supports greyhound charities.

--
William T Goodall
Mail : [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Web  : http://www.wtgab.demon.co.uk
Blog : http://radio.weblogs.com/0111221/
A computer without a Microsoft operating system is like a dog without 
bricks tied to its head.

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What not to say at the piercing parlor

[Jon Gabriel]

This link isn't worksafe (language), but it's really just too funny not to 
share.
http://www.lipsmackin.com/labia.shtml
:-)
Jon

Le Blog:  http://zarq.livejournal.com

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http://shopping.msn.com

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RE: [L3] RE: religious/political question

[Horn, John]

> From: Horn, John 
> 
> It seems to me that if there were a major terrorist attack 
> (or natural disaster or whatever) at Mecca during the haij 
> you could find a fair number of Bubba's in pickups who would 
> be dancing in the streets and shooting their shotguns in the 
> air throughout the US.  So that may or may not be 
> demonstrative of the entire population.

Cr*p!  That should be Hajj, I think.

 - jmh
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RE: [L3] RE: religious/political question

[Horn, John]

> From: ritu [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]
> 
> > Second, _the support is already there_.  People in
> > Muslim countries all over the world celebrated on
> > September 11th.  I've seen the videotape, and so have
> > most other people. 
> 
> Sure the support is already there but it isn't as widespread as
the
> tactic I outlined above would make it. Andy has already asked but
I'll
> repeat the question here: how many muslims do you think 
> celebrated 9/11?

It seems to me that if there were a major terrorist attack (or
natural disaster or whatever) at Mecca during the haij you could
find a fair number of Bubba's in pickups who would be dancing in the
streets and shooting their shotguns in the air throughout the US.
So that may or may not be demonstrative of the entire population.

 - jmh
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Bishops to punish catholic politicians who disobey Pope

[The Fool]

<>

Catholic pols scrutinized by bishops
Mull possible sanctions for anti-church stands
By MICHAEL PAULSON
Boston Globe

WASHINGTON - Frustrated that so many Catholic politicians support
abortion rights, the bishops of the United States said yesterday they
will begin evaluating whether they can impose sanctions against elected
officials who vote contrary to church teachings.

In a freewheeling discussion reflecting years of concern, some bishops
suggested that the church should consider punishments ranging from
denying honorary degrees to elected officials, refusing to allow them to
speak at Catholic institutions, or even excommunicating them.

"I am tired of hearing Catholic politicians say, 'I am personally opposed
to whatever, but I can't impose my moral judgment on others,' " said
Bishop Joseph A. Galante of Dallas. "That's nonsense. They do it on other
issues...That's a weaseling out."

The bishops said they were prompted to act by a document issued in
January by Pope John Paul II. That document outlined the responsibilities
of Catholics actively involved in politics. Cardinal Theodore E.
McCarrick, the archbishop of Washington, suggested that the bishops
examine how to deal with Catholic politicians who do not heed the
Vatican's urgings.

No names were mentioned, but some Catholics have long lamented the
support for abortion rights voiced by Massachusetts Sens. Edward M.
Kennedy and John F. Kerry, both Catholics. In January, after the pope's
statement was issued, both men cited church-state separation as their
guiding principle.

Kerry, who is running for president, declared at the time: "As a
Catholic, I have enormous respect for the words and teachings of the
Vatican, but as a public servant I've never forgotten the lasting legacy
of President Kennedy, who made clear that in accordance with the
separation of church and state, no elected official should be 'limited or
conditioned by any religious oath, ritual, or obligation.' "

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Re: [L3] RE: religious/political question

[Erik Reuter]

On Wed, Nov 12, 2003 at 11:12:42AM +0530, ritu wrote:

> I remember most of the 120 million muslims of my country speaking out
> against the atrocity.

You must have a phenomenal memory! I can only remember 120 people on a
good day, let alone 120 MILLION!


-- 
Erik Reuter   http://www.erikreuter.net/
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Scouted: NYTimes Article / 25 most provocative questions facing science

[Jon Gabriel]

From the NY Times:
"The first issue of Science Times appeared 25 years ago, on Nov. 14, 1978. 
Its guiding principle ever since has been that science is not a collection 
of answers, but a way of asking questions, an enterprise driven by 
curiosity. To celebrate the anniversary, we pose 25 of the most provocative 
questions facing science. As always, answers are provisional."

http://www.nytimes.com/indexes/2003/11/10/science/
Text version is here:
http://www.nytimes.com/indexes/2003/11/10/science/text/index.html
Jon
GSV Ho Hum
Le Blog:  http://zarq.livejournal.com

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RE: Vacation was Re: Philosophical question

[Andrew Paul]

> From: Julia Thompson [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] 
> Subject: Re: Vacation was Re: Philosophical question
> 
> 
> 
> 
> On Tue, 11 Nov 2003, Kevin Tarr wrote:
> 
> > The vacation was mostly good. Two days of visiting wineries tasting 
> > their products. I don't like wine, but bought some bottles anyway. 
> > Spent two hours in the hot tub watching the eclipse in a completely 
> > clear sky. It was so cold however that water splashed out 
> froze on the 
> > deck.
> 
> Ever been in a hot tub outside while it was snowing?
> 
> There's a distance above the water at which the snowflakes 
> melt.  You see 
> them coming down, then you don't really see them once they've 
> melted.  
> It's fun.
> 
>   Julia
> 

Yea, I have done that.
It was cool, kinda like having a coneshaped force-field over your head,
that magically disintegrated snowflakes.
Then you jump out and roll around in the snow, Nordic style.

Don't try this without champagne though.
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Re: Vacation was Re: Philosophical question

[Kevin Tarr]

At 12:30 AM 11/12/2003 -0600, you wrote:


On Tue, 11 Nov 2003, Kevin Tarr wrote:

> The vacation was mostly good. Two days of visiting wineries tasting
> their products. I don't like wine, but bought some bottles anyway. Spent
> two hours in the hot tub watching the eclipse in a completely clear sky.
> It was so cold however that water splashed out froze on the deck.
Ever been in a hot tub outside while it was snowing?

There's a distance above the water at which the snowflakes melt.  You see
them coming down, then you don't really see them once they've melted.
It's fun.
Julia


I live in the northeast, skiing is my third favorite sport, second favorite 
outside...though my first can be done inside or out ;-)  so yes I've been 
in hot tubs whilst it's been snowing.

Kevin T. - VRWC
Snow this weekend, possibly
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Re: Continuing Education

[Kevin Tarr]

Answering more than one post here.

Kingdom Come was the Led Zep rip-off band I was thinking of, thanks William.

Powell is not credited for any DP albums. If he toured with them, I cannot 
find it. But that's been covered elsewhere

Also covered: I'd consider Glam to be a small part of hair bands. They were 
all hair bands, but only Poison or Twisted Sister I'd call glam.

Sorry about that Reggie. I agree 100% with a voice being an instrument, but 
didn't think Plant was doing that much.

I do like Coverdale, I just don't see any of his deep purple stuff as 
important. And the flip side, I know less about DP than you think. I own no 
albums. I never thought the whole package was that good.

Kevin T. - VRWC
Very late for work
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Re: Bishop: Gays should see a doctor

[William T Goodall]

On 8 Nov 2003, at 5:52 pm, The Fool wrote:

<>

Bishop: Gays should see a doctor
 The bishop has been outspoken in his condemnation of homosexuality 
Gays and lesbians should go to a psychiatrist to try to become
heterosexual, a senior church leader has said.
The Bishop of Chester, the Right Rev Dr Peter Forster, said some
homosexuals could "reorientate" themselves with medical help.
http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/main.jhtml?xml=/news/2003/11/10/ 
nbish10.xml

"A bishop who angered homosexuals by suggesting theyseek a psychiatric  
cure is to be investigated by police to see if his outspoken views  
amount to a criminal offence, it emerged yesterday.

The Rt Rev Dr Peter Forster, the Bishop of Chester, infuriated  
homosexuals both in and out of the Church of England when he said last  
week that they could and should seek medical help to "reorientate"  
themselves.

The Lesbian and Gay Christian Movement (the LGCM) accused him of  
putting forward an "offensive" and "scandalous" argument from a bygone  
age.

Cheshire Police have said that they are to investigate his comments,  
made in the local paper, the Chester Chronicle, after receiving a  
complaint that his views may incite people to turn against  
homosexuals."

--
William T Goodall
Mail : [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Web  : http://www.wtgab.demon.co.uk
Blog : http://radio.weblogs.com/0111221/
'The true sausage buff will sooner or later want his own meat
grinder.' -- Jack Schmidling
--
William T Goodall
Mail : [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Web  : http://www.wtgab.demon.co.uk
Blog : http://radio.weblogs.com/0111221/
'The true sausage buff will sooner or later want his own meat
grinder.' -- Jack Schmidling 

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Re: Country music evil?

[William T Goodall]

On 7 Nov 2003, at 3:46 pm, Julia Thompson wrote:



On Fri, 7 Nov 2003, William T Goodall wrote:

On 6 Nov 2003, at 2:55 am, Kevin Tarr wrote:

*Someone had a fine critique of iTunes, how apple gets 1/3 of the
money for only being a trafficker of the songs,
Stores typically have a markup of 30% or more on CDs.
How much of the store's take goes into overhead?  How much of Apple's 
take
goes into overhead?

 the record companies get the rest and only pay a small percentage to
the artists, if that.
Apple actually makes a loss running the iTunes store. It makes sense
because it promotes sales of the profitable iPod player, and
strengthens the brand.
Tells me the overhead is significant in relation to the cost of the 
songs.
Thanks.  :)

eTunes and Napster would appear to have a problem with their business
plan :)
:)

http://www.time.com/time/2003/inventions/invmusic.html

"Jobs has one more reason not to be concerned about the competition. 
"The dirty little secret of all this is there's no way to make money on 
these stores," he says. For every 99¢ Apple gets from your credit card, 
65¢ goes straight to the music label. Another quarter or so gets eaten 
up by distribution costs. At most, Jobs is left with a dime per track, 
so even $500 million in annual sales would add up to a paltry $50 
million profit. Why even bother? "Because we're selling iPods," Jobs 
says, grinning.

That may make iTunes the most benign-looking Trojan Horse in software 
history. The Windows crowd can get iTunes free, and it offers almost 
all the same functionality as the paid versions of MusicMatch and Real 
One, two PC-based rivals. But iTunes is the only music application that 
will work with the enormously popular iPod, and it has features—like 
its powerful search function—that are unrivaled. "Once people are 
locked into using iTunes, the game's over," says Charles Wolf, an 
analyst at the New York City-based Needham & Co. investment bank. "They 
could sell an extra 2 million iPods because of this." And the margins 
on these devices make the Music Store's arithmetic look like child's 
play. Each $499 iPod returns as much as $175 in profit, Wolf says."

--
William T Goodall
Mail : [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Web  : http://www.wtgab.demon.co.uk
Blog : http://radio.weblogs.com/0111221/
"The fact that an opinion has been widely held is no evidence whatever 
that it is not utterly absurd; indeed in view of the silliness of the 
majority of mankind, a widespread belief is more likely to be foolish 
than sensible."
- Bertrand Russell

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Re: Continuing Education

[William T Goodall]

On 12 Nov 2003, at 4:31 am, Robert Seeberger wrote:

- Original Message -
From: "Kevin Tarr" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: "Killer Bs Discussion" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Sent: Tuesday, November 11, 2003 9:15 PM
Subject: Re: Continuing Education

My head is going to explode.

Glam rock started at least in 1968 and was nailed by David Bowie with
Ziggy. I will admit ignorance here, if Whitesnake's early stuff was
glam-like then so be it but I doubt it. If you meant instead a direct 
line
to heavy metal, then that's wrong also, IMHO. If you meant Glam 
metal, I
still think it's a stretch. Whitesnake of the 80's was not glam. Again
this
is all IMHO, but glam has to first be pretty boys and stage presence
before > music. Whitesnake had neither, except David Coverdale.

The later version of Whitesnake was a "Hair" or "Bighair" Band and most
people consider that to be a subgroup of Glam.
That makes more sense the other way round - Glam a subgroup of Hair. 
With makeup.

Opinions vary, eh?



"Slide It In" did not have three Deep Purple band members on the 
album.
Paice was back with Deep Purple. In fact to call Coverdale Deep Purple
would be like saying Blaze Bayley is Iron Maiden, and I at least 
recognize
the different IM songs. (On the third hand, I didn't know IM had a
different first singer).
I saw them with the original singer playing Aberdeen Music Hall in 
~1979. I missed Def Leppard playing Aberdeen University Union touring 
their first album ~1980 :(

David Coverdale - exDeep Purple
Cozy Powell - exDeep Purple
Jon Lord - exDeep Purple
Mel Galley - exTrapeze
John Sykes - exThin Lizzy
Neil Murray - (I haven't a clue at the moment)
But I agree that Deep Purple isn't typified by Coverdale the way it is 
by
Ian Gillian.  After all, Gillian was Jesus.


Jimmy Page was the guitar player for Zep, unless you meant something 
else
Reggie, about the music.
Did Reggie even mention Page?
I don't understand your point here.

I do hate the tag Zep wannabees. There was a band in the eighties 
that was
practically a rip-off of Led Zeppelin and damn if I can think of their
name
now.
Great White?
Kingdom Come?

--
William T Goodall
Mail : [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Web  : http://www.wtgab.demon.co.uk
Blog : http://radio.weblogs.com/0111221/
'The true sausage buff will sooner or later want his own meat
grinder.' -- Jack Schmidling
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Re: On trolling

[Deborah Harrell]

> Reggie Bautista <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
>>> The Fool wrote:

> >>>Stale marshmallows are best.
> 
> I replied:
> >>That depends on just how stale they are.  When we
> were cleaning out my
> >>parents' house after the tornado, we found a bag
> of marshmallows with an
> >>expiration date in the middle 1970's...
> >>
> >>Pretty Colors Maru
> 
> Ronn! responded:
> >Did they start out as different colors?
> 
> Sadly, no.
> 
> Reggie Bautista
> Technicolor Terror Maru

For those who wish to provide future
gleaners-of-tornado-ravaged-houses with multicolored
marshmallows, stock your home with Peeps For All
Seasons:
http://www.marshmallowpeeps.com/index.html

Did you know that Peeps have participated in
atmospheric research?  Here is the NASA site:
http://science.nasa.gov/headlines/y2000/ast01apr_1m.htm
"...However, one fascinating and tragic aspect of the
story was not announced until now. The April 11 flight
included five brave passengers -- intrepid explorers
who never returned. Where they went, and how, remains
a mystery.

"Stowed away on the weather balloon sent aloft in
April 1999 were five tiny Peeps. How they got there is
controversial. Most of his colleagues think they were
smuggled on board by Bryan Walls, an irreverent member
of the launch team. However it happened, one thing is
clear -- these Peeps were not purchased with tax
dollars and NASA does not endorse these brightly
colored sweet treats!..."

Besides high-altitude testing, marshmallow bunnies
have been subjected to lasers, open flames, and
boiling water (be sure to check out the Wyle E. Coyote
test!):
http://www.keypad.org/bunnies/

Dissolving Into Silliness Maru  :)

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Re: Continuing Education

[Reggie Bautista]

Kevin wrote:
... but glam has to first be pretty boys and stage presence before music. 
Whitesnake had neither, except David Coverdale.
Bryon replied:
You don't seem to care too much for David Coverdale, do you?  He's no Ian 
Gillan, but I think he's alright.  I think most people never heard of
Whitesnake before their "Whitesnake" album, and if you watched the
videos for that, they could come across as glam.
I have friends who couldn't decide whether to call the Coverdale Page
album White Zeppelin or Led Snake.
Bryon again:
My mistake, I was counting Cozy Powell as a Deep Purple member (I
associate him with Blackmore and Rainbow and got them jumbled up).
For some twisted reason, the first thing that comes to mind when I
hear the name Cozy Powell is the one album he did as the "P" in
ELP.  I know, I know, and please don't think I think it's anywhere
near his best stuff.  That's just the album where I actually became
aware of his name, only to find out that he was in other groups I
liked quite a bit better.
Yet More Bryon:
I did some googling and came across some surprising info (to me at least, 
which shows how out of the scene I've been)
- Cozy Powell died in 1998
- Deep Purple put out a whole batch of albums after the last one I
bought (House of Blue Light),...
[snip]
- Iron Maiden has released a *slew* of albums since the last one I bought 
(Somewhere in Time), including a new one in October.
I've been lurking a bit lately over at alt.music.yes, and apparently
they've also been keeping busy.  I'm amazed how many bands from
the 1970s and 1980s I've heard about recently that are touring and/or
recording again.
Back to Kevin:
There was a band in the eighties that was practically a rip-off of Led 
Zeppelin and damn if I can think of their name now.
Over to Bryon:
Hmmm.  Eighties Zep clone - maybe you mean The Cult?  People have
told me they were a Zep clone, but I've never really heard any of their 
stuff.
Maybe Blue Murder?  Or Kingdom Come?  Or Great White, which I think
I remember reading actually started out as a Zeppelin Tribute band called
"The White?"
Reggie Bautista
Or Could It Be Dread Zeppelin Maru
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Re: Scouted: Cocoa Has More Antioxidants Than Red Wine, Tea

[Ronn!Blankenship]

At 12:59 AM 11/12/03 -0600, Reggie Bautista wrote:
Ronn! wrote:
At least no one has brought up "Coke" versus "Pepsi" . . .
Julia has already mentioned RC, but I haven't seen anyone yet
bring up "an RC Cola and a moon-pie"...
Reggie Bautista
And I'm Not Even From The South Maru


I Am From The South And If I Consumed Those Together I Would Indeed Likely 
Bring Them Up Maru



-- Ronn!  :)

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Re: On trolling

[Reggie Bautista]

The Fool wrote:
Stale marshmallows are best.
I replied:
That depends on just how stale they are.  When we were cleaning out my
parents' house after the tornado, we found a bag of marshmallows with an
expiration date in the middle 1970's...
Reggie Bautista
Pretty Colors Maru
Ronn! responded:
Did they start out as different colors?
Sadly, no.

Reggie Bautista
Technicolor Terror Maru
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Re: Scouted: Cocoa Has More Antioxidants Than Red Wine, Tea

[Reggie Bautista]

Ronn! wrote:
At least no one has brought up "Coke" versus "Pepsi" . . .
Julia has already mentioned RC, but I haven't seen anyone yet
bring up "an RC Cola and a moon-pie"...
Reggie Bautista
And I'm Not Even From The South Maru
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