More outsourcing . . .

[Ronn!Blankenship]

Mentioned by Jay Leno in his monologue tonight:   calls from welfare 
recipients in Utah to the state office are being answered in India . . .

<>



-- Ronn!  :)

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From CNN: Many rural Africans may have HIV-like virus from hunting and handling fresh primate meat

[Ronn!Blankenship]

<>

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Re: The Closest Near Miss On Record - Today

[Ronn!Blankenship]

Movie of the flyby:

<>



-- Ronn!  :)

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New Doctor announced

[Tom Beck]

The BBC announced that Christopher Eccleston will play the title role  
in the new production of Doctor Who, which will start production this  
spring and will air next year. Eccleston, who co-starred with Nicole  
Kidman in the film "The Others," will be the ninth actor to play the  
part.

 
--

Tom Beck

my LiveJournal: http://www.livejournal.com/users/tomfodw/

"I always knew I'd see the first man on the Moon. I never thought I'd  
see the last." - Dr. Jerry Pournelle

 
--
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Re: Terrorists Win in Spain

[Dan Minette]

- Original Message - 
From: "John D. Giorgis" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: "Killer Bs Discussion" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Sent: Thursday, March 18, 2004 7:48 PM
Subject: Re: Terrorists Win in Spain


> At 04:20 PM 3/18/2004 +0100 John Doe wrote:
> >So, John, >200k civilian deaths is "little to no evidence" for you? Then
how
> >many civilians should have been killed before you accept that ethnic
> >cleansing happened? Couple of millions?
>
> Just for the record, I said that there was "little to no evidence" of
> genocide.   In fact, I used precisely the words "ethnic cleansing" to
> describe what was going on.
>

The combination of which I took for "the pushed a lot of people out of
their homes, but they didn't kill all that many."

The Dutchbat report does document genocide.

Dan M.

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Re: Terrorists Win in Spain

[John D. Giorgis]

At 04:20 PM 3/18/2004 +0100 John Doe wrote:
>So, John, >200k civilian deaths is "little to no evidence" for you? Then how 
>many civilians should have been killed before you accept that ethnic 
>cleansing happened? Couple of millions?

Just for the record, I said that there was "little to no evidence" of
genocide.   In fact, I used precisely the words "ethnic cleansing" to
describe what was going on.

JDG
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   "The liberty we prize is not America's gift to the world, 
   it is God's gift to humanity." - George W. Bush 1/29/03
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Re: DEFENDERS OF THE SANCTITY OF MARRIAGE

[William T Goodall]

On 19 Mar 2004, at 9:02 pm, John Doe wrote:

From: "The Fool" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Reply-To: Killer Bs Discussion <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: "Killer Bs Discussion" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Subject: Re: DEFENDERS OF THE SANCTITY OF MARRIAGE
Date: Fri, 19 Mar 2004 08:17:40 -0600
> But what if I don't believe in God?

That means you are above average in intelligence and education.
Why, thank you for your kind words, sir! :-)

JD, with an IQ of 137
Isn't that close to being retarded?

--
William T Goodall
Mail : [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Web  : http://www.wtgab.demon.co.uk
Blog : http://radio.weblogs.com/0111221/
"I have always wished that my computer would be as easy to use as my 
telephone. My wish has come true. I no longer know how to use my 
telephone." - Bjarne Stroustrup

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Re: Tyranny

[The Fool]

> From: John Doe <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
> 
> >From: "John D. Giorgis" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
> 
> Oh, and while you're at it, would you mind answering that other
question I 
> asked you in that same message? I'd like to hear your views on this.
(Maybe 
> you already shared those views earlier, but I only subscribed to this
list a 
> few days ago.)

Best to read the archives starting in january for that discussion:
<>
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Re: DEFENDERS OF THE SANCTITY OF MARRIAGE

[Robert Seeberger]

- Original Message - 
From: "John Doe" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Sent: Friday, March 19, 2004 3:02 PM
Subject: Re: DEFENDERS OF THE SANCTITY OF MARRIAGE


> >From: "The Fool" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
> >Reply-To: Killer Bs Discussion <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
> >To: "Killer Bs Discussion" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
> >Subject: Re: DEFENDERS OF THE SANCTITY OF MARRIAGE
> >Date: Fri, 19 Mar 2004 08:17:40 -0600
> >
> > > But what if I don't believe in God?
> >
> >That means you are above average in intelligence and education.
>
> Why, thank you for your kind words, sir! :-)
>
> JD, with an IQ of 137
>

Mine is 158.

Wanna compare penis' next?



xponent
Less Than Useful Measurements In This Context Maru
rob


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Travel plans

[Jan Coffey]

NAME REMOVED

> after I return from [NAME & TIME REMOVED].

Not to be paranoid, or anything, but posting ones travel plans on 
line is probably not a good idea.

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Re: DEFENDERS OF THE SANCTITY OF MARRIAGE

[William T Goodall]

" Gays are nothing more than misguided unbelievers that need direction  
and instruction in the ways of righteousness. If they come to know the  
True and Living God of Heaven (not some form of made up god) then  
perhaps they will really discover their need to repent and clean up  
their act.

 If homosexuals choose to remain hellbound, then that is their choice.  
Knowledgeable Christians can pray and continue to speak out to remind  
the homosexual community there is still hope in repentance and faith in  
Jesus Christ. "

LOL :)

--
William T Goodall
Mail : [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Web  : http://www.wtgab.demon.co.uk
Blog : http://radio.weblogs.com/0111221/
"Our products just aren't engineered for security." - Brian Valentine,  
senior vice president in charge of Microsoft's Windows development  
team.

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Re: Tyranny

[John Doe]

From: "John D. Giorgis" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Reply-To: Killer Bs Discussion <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: Killer Bs Discussion <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Subject: Re: Tyranny
Date: Thu, 18 Mar 2004 20:47:21 -0500
At 04:28 PM 3/18/2004 +0100 John Doe wrote:
>>Again, there is nothing in current law in the United States that 
prevents
>>homosexual couples from publicly committing themselves to each other.
>
>Apparently there is, otherwise the whole discussion about gay marriage
>wouldn't have happened.

One of my closest female friends married her girlfriend in a Unitarian
Church a couple years ago.
The ceremony was a public commitment and was definitely not illegal.
Good for them!

Out of curiosity, where did they get married? And is this marriage 
recognized by the State or the Federal Government?

AFAIK, most States still don't allow/recognize gay marriage.

Oh, and while you're at it, would you mind answering that other question I 
asked you in that same message? I'd like to hear your views on this. (Maybe 
you already shared those views earlier, but I only subscribed to this list a 
few days ago.)

JD

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Abstinence-Only funding $500K tax dollars: Civil Rights = AIDS propaganda

[The Fool]

<>

Abstinence-Only educator discovers link between AIDS, civil rights
  
Just what kind of expert is attracted to Abstinence-Only funding -- the
recipients of which aren't allowed to talk about condoms, except as a
menace?
 
Meet Dr. William L. Bergman, M.D. The good doctor is one of the creators
of Free Teens U.S.A., the Moonie sex-ed program. With help from a White
House grant just under $500,000, its paid professionals spend their time
convincing New Jersey schoolkids to reflect upon how sex is just like
drinking other people's spit in grotesque classroom exercises. 

I've been trying to convey that it's not so much the religious beliefs of
the Unification Church that matter--it's the group's clout in Washington
as an openly fascist political organization. (If Dr. William L. Bergman
thinks the felonious owner of the Washington Times is the Messiah, what
business is that of ours?) What is important is that your tax dollars are
funding ideas like these: 

Dr. William Bergman, once-director of Moon's Unification church, produced
a slide program for schools called "The Private Plague: AIDS, Sexually
Transmitted Diseases & a Strategy for our Youth at Risk." Bergman's
program teaches that these diseases have roots in the "civil rights
movement" which allegedly led to "moral relativism." (Clarkson's source:
The Private Plague slide program manual, p. 23.)



Shrub 04:
Don't Switch Horsemen Mid-Apocalypse
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Re: Pledge of Allegence

[Deborah Harrell]

> Reggie Bautista <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> >Debbi wrote:

> > Debbi
> > who 'fits in' more with being a Westerner than
> > anything else...too polite to be a Northeasterner,
> >too outspoken to be a Southerner, likes too much
> > spicy food to be a Midwesterner...  ;)
 
> Hey!  This Midwesterner eats spicy Mexican, Indian,
> and Thai food on a
> pretty regular basis (not as regular as I'd like for
> the Thai stuff).

Well, as a Brineller of course you'd be an unusual
Midwesterner!

Debbi
whose tongue still recoils in horror at the memory of
some of the bland and colorless food consumed in
various places... ;)

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Re: DEFENDERS OF THE SANCTITY OF MARRIAGE

[Julia Thompson]

Travis Edmunds wrote:

> "The prating FOOL shall fall"
> 
> Not sure where that is exactly, but it's in the bible.

Proverbs 10:8
The wise in heart will receive commandments: but a prating fool shall
fall. 

Proverbs 10:10
He that winketh with the eye causeth sorrow: but a prating fool shall
fall. 

Searchable King James version of the Bible at
http://etext.lib.virginia.edu/kjv.browse.html

Julia
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Re: DEFENDERS OF THE SANCTITY OF MARRIAGE

[John Doe]

From: "The Fool" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Reply-To: Killer Bs Discussion <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: "Killer Bs Discussion" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Subject: Re: DEFENDERS OF THE SANCTITY OF MARRIAGE
Date: Fri, 19 Mar 2004 08:17:40 -0600
> But what if I don't believe in God?

That means you are above average in intelligence and education.
Why, thank you for your kind words, sir! :-)

JD, with an IQ of 137

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Re: DEFENDERS OF THE SANCTITY OF MARRIAGE

[Dan Minette]

- Original Message - 
From: "Robert Seeberger" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: "Killer Bs Discussion" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Sent: Friday, March 19, 2004 5:47 PM
Subject: Re: DEFENDERS OF THE SANCTITY OF MARRIAGE


> 
> - Original Message - 
> From: "John Doe" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
> To: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
> Sent: Friday, March 19, 2004 3:02 PM
> Subject: Re: DEFENDERS OF THE SANCTITY OF MARRIAGE
> 
> 
> > >From: "The Fool" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
> > >Reply-To: Killer Bs Discussion <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
> > >To: "Killer Bs Discussion" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
> > >Subject: Re: DEFENDERS OF THE SANCTITY OF MARRIAGE
> > >Date: Fri, 19 Mar 2004 08:17:40 -0600
> > >
> > > > But what if I don't believe in God?
> > >
> > >That means you are above average in intelligence and education.
> >
> > Why, thank you for your kind words, sir! :-)
> >
> > JD, with an IQ of 137
> >
> 
> Mine is 158.
> 
> Wanna compare penis' next?

Mine was precisely measured as sqrt(pi^(e^pi))

Mom always said I was an irrational number.

Dan M. 
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Re: DEFENDERS OF THE SANCTITY OF MARRIAGE

[Ronn!Blankenship]

At 06:03 PM 3/19/04, Dan Minette wrote:

- Original Message -
From: "Robert Seeberger" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: "Killer Bs Discussion" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Sent: Friday, March 19, 2004 5:47 PM
Subject: Re: DEFENDERS OF THE SANCTITY OF MARRIAGE
>
> - Original Message -
> From: "John Doe" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
> To: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
> Sent: Friday, March 19, 2004 3:02 PM
> Subject: Re: DEFENDERS OF THE SANCTITY OF MARRIAGE
>
>
> > >From: "The Fool" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
> > >Reply-To: Killer Bs Discussion <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
> > >To: "Killer Bs Discussion" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
> > >Subject: Re: DEFENDERS OF THE SANCTITY OF MARRIAGE
> > >Date: Fri, 19 Mar 2004 08:17:40 -0600
> > >
> > > > But what if I don't believe in God?
> > >
> > >That means you are above average in intelligence and education.
> >
> > Why, thank you for your kind words, sir! :-)
> >
> > JD, with an IQ of 137
> >
>
> Mine is 158.
>
> Wanna compare penis' next?
Mine was precisely measured as sqrt(pi^(e^pi))


Micrometers?



-- Ronn!  :)

The contents of this message © 2004 by the author.  All rights 
reserved.  Any reproduction, redistribution, duplication, forwarding, 
dissemination, publication, broadcast, transmission or other use of the 
contents of this message, in whole or in part, with or without attribution, 
with or without this copyright statement, in any form by any means 
whatsoever is strictly and expressly prohibited.

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Re: Abstinence-Only funding $500K tax dollars: Civil Rights = AIDS propaganda

[William T Goodall]

On 19 Mar 2004, at 11:34 pm, The Fool wrote:

<>

Abstinence-Only educator discovers link between AIDS, civil rights

Just what kind of expert is attracted to Abstinence-Only funding -- the
recipients of which aren't allowed to talk about condoms, except as a
menace?
Meet Dr. William L. Bergman, M.D. The good doctor is one of the  
creators
of Free Teens U.S.A., the Moonie sex-ed program. With help from a White
House grant just under $500,000, its paid professionals spend their  
time
convincing New Jersey schoolkids to reflect upon how sex is just like
drinking other people's spit in grotesque classroom exercises.
So why did they leave out golden showers and rimming then? And why  
would marriage make it any more tasteful? Or tasty even :)

The problem with this 'sex is so bad unless you're married' agenda is  
that any kid that actually believed it would have problems working out  
why it was any less gross when they were married...

Oh wait. doG says it's alright to put your tongue there now you are  
married although it is utterly gross and vile otherwise. That's Ok  
then...

Maybe they have some transubstantiation dogma where married bodily  
secretions turn into grape soda?

--
William T Goodall
Mail : [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Web  : http://www.wtgab.demon.co.uk
Blog : http://radio.weblogs.com/0111221/
"The fact that an opinion has been widely held is no evidence whatever  
that it is not utterly absurd; indeed in view of the silliness of the  
majority of mankind, a widespread belief is more likely to be foolish  
than sensible."
- Bertrand Russell

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Re: DEFENDERS OF THE SANCTITY OF MARRIAGE

[Ronn!Blankenship]

At 01:11 PM 3/19/04, Travis Edmunds wrote:

And the truth is, nobody really knows. Unless of course you're privy to 
some information that the rest of us mere mortals are not.


Oh, I am. But I don't think the rest of you mortals want to know what came 
to pass in the privy . . .



-- Ronn!  :)

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Re: Libertarian Purity Test

[Deborah Harrell]

> David Hobby <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> >Kevin Tarr wrote:
> > > [I wrote]

> > >(Actually, I agree with whoever said that the
> wording
> > >was far too strong to answer a flat 'yes' to many
> > >questions, but a graded response would have
placed
> > >me on a somewhat more libertarian side.  But only
> > >somewhat!)

> > Every question seemed easy to me; they were
> straight forward.  Paraphrasing:
> > Do you think medical marijuana should be legal
Y/N?
 
> > Isn't that how a person forms their thoughts? No
> qualifications, no if/but;
> > just this is the issue in black and white, this is
> a dividing line, which side do you choose?
 
> I took it, and got a 10 or something.  I don't think

> it was well-designed, because it insisted on viewing
> complex issues in terms that were too simple.

Ditto that last phrase.

>   How should
> I answer? "Sometimes" is not an option.
> Kevin, your drug example is a special case.  Most
> issues are not so straight forward.

 The drug questions were the only reason I
scored as 'high' as I did!  If an adult wants to kill
off their own brain cells, reduce their fertility (and
sometimes libido) or turn their liver into dogmeat,
why should I care -- as long as it doesn't affect
anybody else? [Of course, there's the rub... >:/ ]

Debbi
who voted for medical marijuana usage when the
referendum was on the ballot [there is legit need, IMO]

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Re: DEFENDERS OF THE SANCTITY OF MARRIAGE

[Deborah Harrell]

> The Fool <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> > From: John Doe <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
 

> > But what if I don't believe in God?
 
> That means you are above average in intelligence and
> education.

My M.D. and my well-above-average IQ (even after a
significant closed head injury) disagree with your
supposition.

Debbi
who LOL'd at Ritu's response

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Re: [ADMIN] Call for administrative action

[Deborah Harrell]

> Travis Edmunds <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> >From: Deborah Harrell <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>


> > You do realize that I was agreeing with
> >your statement WRT 'some people just may be
ignoring
> >this as childish?'
 
> Honestly I didn't. I noted agreement in the first
> paragraph, noted silliness 
> in the rest, followed you up until the "trolling"
> bit, then got lost in a 
> big pile of cranio-rectal dystocia...haha...!!
> 
> And with all the "silliness", I didn't know whether
> or not you having a laugh at my expense.

Ah, no -- now one of the post-replies that never got
sent, having to do with 'the impetuous and
oh-so-sure-of-itselfness-of-youth' -- *that* would
have been laughing at you.   ;)

Debbi
who read some of your posts feeling that she was
looking at a time-warp of her own impassioned youthful
certainty (although the _direction_ of surety was
quite different)   :)

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Re: Race to the Bottom

[Dan Minette]

- Original Message - 
From: "Gautam Mukunda" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: "Killer Bs Discussion" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Sent: Monday, March 15, 2004 10:57 AM
Subject: Re: Race to the Bottom


> --- Dan Minette <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> > I hope this helps to clarify things.
> >
> > Dan M.
>
> I think it does - I'm not sure that we disagree at
> all.  If the decrease in the demand for labor is
> uniform across all industrialized countries, then it
> may be reasonable to assume it as a given (I don't
> know that Borjas does).

I haven't seen anything that indicates that jobs have been growing faster
in Germany than here over the last 20 years.

One other interesting point.  Even with the better balance (as far as
workers are concerned) between demand and supply of labor in Germany, their
unemployment rate is higher.  I'm sure Borjas considers this, I'd like to
see how he figures it in.  Maybe I need to buy the book. :-)

> I'm not sure, though, that your numbers on labor
> supply increase include illegals - if they don't, then
> that doesn't take into account a huge factor, both
> because of the huge # of illegals and because they
> have a larger impact than their pure numbers would imply.

My guess is that its a mixed bag.  Some illegals hold legal jobs with fake
SS numbers, others are paid below minimum wage in cash, with no reporting
to the Feds.  I'll try to work those numbers in after I return from
visiting my folks this weekend.

Dan M.

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Re: Race to the Bottom

[Dan Minette]

- Original Message - 
From: "John D. Giorgis" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: "Killer Bs Discussion" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Sent: Saturday, March 13, 2004 5:53 PM
Subject: Re: Race to the Bottom


> At 03:38 PM 3/13/2004 -0600 Dan Minette wrote:
> >Right here is where I depart.  The labor pool of possible employees
> >increased by 49% from '57 to '80, but by only 32% from '80 to '03.  (The
> >participation in the work force increased 60% and 37%, respectively.
> >During the first time period inequality decreased; during the second it
> >increased.  Not only that, but the increase was not just a transfer of
> >income share from the poor to the rich, it was a transfer from everyone
to
> >the rich.
>
> I don't understand what you are driving at here.
>
> I am aware that inequality has increased since @1978.   But what do the
> different increases in the size of labor force have to do with this?

It has a lot to do with it if George Borjas's work is to be accepted.
Gautam and I agree with his point that the basic differences between
balance in the the supply and demand of labor is behind much of the
difference in inquality between the US and Germany.  This is true even
though German unemployment is higher than US unemployment.

I think you are looking at unemployment figures to determine the balance.
But, as prices change, both supply and demand changes.  For example, there
is a break even wage for a mother of two to work outside of the home, if
the two children require day care as a result of her working. Also, a lawn
service at $20/week has a far bigger market than a lawn service at
$100/week.

I think this basic difference is worth settling before going on.

If I understand Gautam correctly, if you differ with the basic premise we
agree upon, you also disagree with the gold standard for understanding the
source of economic inequality.  Then again, since Gautam and I managed to
have a fairly spirited discussion, only to find we agree far more than we
differ (and may be in full agreement), it is also possible that you agree
with Borjas, and simply have a different take on it.

Anyways, I think this is worth working out before continuing.

Dan M.

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Re: March Madness!

[Tom Beck]

I'm pretty excited about the basketball, but I'm not having anywhere
near as much time to watch as I did last year.  Trying to stay on top  
of
it as best I can, though.  (But just in case, anyone want to let me  
know
when Texas and Texas Tech get eliminated?  Those are the teams I care
most about right this minute.)
They both won yesterday, Texas rather easily over Princeton, and Texas  
Tech in a tougher game barely beat UNC-Charlotte. And, not that you  
asked, UTEP fell by only 3 against Maryland.

Texas plays North Carolina tomorrow. Texas Tech plays St. Joe's, also  
tomorrow.

 
--

Tom Beck

my LiveJournal: http://www.livejournal.com/users/tomfodw/

"I always knew I'd see the first man on the Moon. I never thought I'd  
see the last." - Dr. Jerry Pournelle

 
--
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RE: Libertarian Purity Test

[Horn, John]

> From: John D. Giorgis [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]
> >> 
> >> http://www.bcaplan.com/cgi/purity.cgi
> >> 
> >
> >11.
> >
> >Kinda reassuring, actually.
> 
> What is reassuring is that *someone* finally had a lower 
> score than I did.
> 
> 18
> 
> JDG - Resident crazy conservative, right?

Hmmm... I might have to take another look at some of those
questions...  Perhaps I was reading them wrong.  

Though Libertarianism doesn't seem to be on the same x-y spectrum as
liberal vs. conservative.  The Libertarians seem to be... out there
... somewhere...

 - jmh

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RE: Lieing Under Oath

[Horn, John]

> From: John D. Giorgis [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]
> 
> At 10:57 AM 3/16/2004 -0600 Horn, John wrote:
> >The issue here in many people's minds is given what we've learned
> >about the intelligence, folks don't think that Bush "believed it
to
> >be true".  That it was a convenient story to get what he wanted.

> 
> My, how far have we come from four years ago when Bush's 
> critics thought
> that he was too dumb to come up with any original thoughts 
> beyond what he
> was told.Now, of course, he is a very clever manipulator of
the US
> intelligence services.

Not a manipulator of the intelligence services, a manipulator of the
US public and public opinion.  Very different things.

> I don't see how you can possibly argue that that statement is
> "impeachable", when in fact it is 100% accurate.   British 
> intelligence
> services did and do say that.

I never said it was.  I was merely making a point that the defense
that Bush wasn't lieing because he believed it to be true might not
completely hold water.

  - jmh
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Re: DEFENDERS OF THE SANCTITY OF MARRIAGE

[The Fool]

> From: Travis Edmunds <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
> 
> >From: "The Fool" 
> >Reply-To: Killer Bs Discussion <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
> >
> > > From: Ronn!Blankenship <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
> > >
> > > At 08:17 AM 3/19/04, The Fool wrote:
> > > > > From: John Doe <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
> > > > >
> > > > > >From: "John D. Giorgis" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
> > > > >
> > > > > >"The liberty we prize is not America's gift to
the
> > > >world,
> > > > > >it is God's gift to humanity." - George W.
Bush
> > > >1/29/03
> > > > >
> > > > > But what if I don't believe in God?
> > > >
> > > >That means you are above average in intelligence and education.
> > >
> > > "O that cunning plan of the evil one! O the vainness, and the
> >frailties,
> > > and the foolishness of men! When they are learned they think they
are
> >wise,
> > > and they hearken not unto the counsel of God, for they set it
aside,
> > > supposing they know of themselves, wherefore, their wisdom is
> >foolishness
> > > and it profiteth them not. And they shall perish.  But to be
learned is
> >
> > > good if they hearken unto the counsels of God."  (2 Nephi 9:28-29)
> > >
> >
> >
> >"A lunatic is easily recognized.  He is a moron who doesn't know the
> >ropes.  The moron proves his thesis; he has a logic, however twisted
> >it may be.  The lunatic, on the other hand, doesn't concern himself at
> >all with logic; he works by short circuits.  For him, everything
> >proves everything else.  The lunatic is all idee fixe, and whatever he
> >comes across confirms his lunacy.  You can tell him by the liberties
> >he takes with common sense, by his flashes of inspiration, and by the
> >fact that sooner or later he brings up the Templars."
> 
> OOH I wanna say one...please???
> 
> "The prating FOOL shall fall"
> 
> Not sure where that is exactly, but it's in the bible.

To the rational mind, nothing is inexplicable; only unexplained.
--Dr. Who 
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Re: Libertarian Purity Test

[David Hobby]

Kevin Tarr wrote:
...
> >(Actually, I agree with whoever said that the wording
> >was far too strong to answer a flat 'yes' to many
> >questions, but a graded response would have placed me
> >on a somewhat more libertarian side.  But only
> >somewhat!)
> >
> >Debbi
> 
> Every question seemed easy to me; they were straight forward.
> Paraphrasing:
> Do you think medical marijuana should be legal Y/N?
> Do you think carrying less than 5 grams of marijuana should be legal?
> Do you think any amount of M should be legal?
> Do you think all drugs should be decriminalised?
> 
> Isn't that how a person forms their thoughts? No qualifications, no if/but;
> just this is the issue in black and white, this is a dividing line, which
> side do you choose?

I took it, and got a 10 or something.  I don't think it 
was well-designed, because it insisted on viewing complex issues
in terms that were too simple.  For instance, I'm usually for 
market-based solutions to problems.  But a completely free 
market is seldom best, government regulation is needed to 
"frame" the market so it operates well.  How should I answer?
"Sometimes" is not an option.
Kevin, your drug example is a special case.  Most
issues are not so straight forward.

---David
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Re: DEFENDERS OF THE SANCTITY OF MARRIAGE

[Jan Coffey]

--- In [EMAIL PROTECTED], "ritu" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> 
> John Doe wrote:
> 
> > 
> > >"The liberty we prize is not America's gift 
> > to the world,
> > >it is God's gift to humanity." - George W. 
> > Bush 1/29/03
> > 
> > But what if I don't believe in God?
> 
> I don't think that makes a difference as long as She believes in 
you. ;)

Then she can sit around with the easter bunny, santa clause, a couple 
of mermaids, and a unicorn and discuss it.

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One year anniversary of start of Gulf War II

[ChadCooper]

Its today In case anyone was interested.
Nerd from Hell

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Re: DEFENDERS OF THE SANCTITY OF MARRIAGE

[Travis Edmunds]

From: "The Fool" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Reply-To: Killer Bs Discussion <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: "Killer Bs Discussion" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Subject: Re: DEFENDERS OF THE SANCTITY OF MARRIAGE
Date: Fri, 19 Mar 2004 11:52:39 -0600
> From: Ronn!Blankenship <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
>
> At 08:17 AM 3/19/04, The Fool wrote:
> > > From: John Doe <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
> > >
> > > >From: "John D. Giorgis" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
> > >
> > > >"The liberty we prize is not America's gift to the
> >world,
> > > >it is God's gift to humanity." - George W. Bush
> >1/29/03
> > >
> > > But what if I don't believe in God?
> >
> >That means you are above average in intelligence and education.
>
> "O that cunning plan of the evil one! O the vainness, and the
frailties,
> and the foolishness of men! When they are learned they think they are
wise,
> and they hearken not unto the counsel of God, for they set it aside,
> supposing they know of themselves, wherefore, their wisdom is
foolishness
> and it profiteth them not. And they shall perish.  But to be learned is
> good if they hearken unto the counsels of God."  (2 Nephi 9:28-29)
>
"A lunatic is easily recognized.  He is a moron who doesn't know the
ropes.  The moron proves his thesis; he has a logic, however twisted
it may be.  The lunatic, on the other hand, doesn't concern himself at
all with logic; he works by short circuits.  For him, everything
proves everything else.  The lunatic is all idee fixe, and whatever he
comes across confirms his lunacy.  You can tell him by the liberties
he takes with common sense, by his flashes of inspiration, and by the
fact that sooner or later he brings up the Templars."
OOH I wanna say one...please???

"The prating FOOL shall fall"

Not sure where that is exactly, but it's in the bible.

-Travis "float like a butterfly, sting like a bee" Edmunds

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Re: March Madness!

[Julia Thompson]

"John D. Giorgis" wrote:

> I don't see how Atlanta became the consensus "toughest" region - even
> though such talk is purely academic since each bracket has 16 seeds.
> O.k., I like Duke and MS St. a lot, but Texas?   They've lost a lot of
> players since their Final Four run last year.   Sure Arizona has a lot of
> experience, but they struggled in a very weak Pac-10 this year.   A lot of
> people think that Cincinnati is the weakest of the five CUSA co-champions,
> and Illinois was thoroughly exposed by Wisconsin in a very, very, weak Big
> 10 Conference.   I would rate Seton Hall is the weakest of the Big East
> teams as well... and the Big East's very high level of defense can pose a
> lot of problems for teams from other conferences.To the extent that one
> bracket can be stronger than the others, I just don't see it in Atlanta.

And if Texas doesn't become the national champion, a local car dealer
will *not* give one lucky customer $1 million.  :D  (It's a Ford dealer,
I think Leif Johnson Ford, but not positive on that.  They've had ads
about this running since basketball season started.)

I'm pretty excited about the basketball, but I'm not having anywhere
near as much time to watch as I did last year.  Trying to stay on top of
it as best I can, though.  (But just in case, anyone want to let me know
when Texas and Texas Tech get eliminated?  Those are the teams I care
most about right this minute.)

Julia

experiencing March Insanity having nothing to do with basketball, and
everything to do with RL stuff
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Re: DEFENDERS OF THE SANCTITY OF MARRIAGE

[Travis Edmunds]

From: "The Fool" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Reply-To: Killer Bs Discussion <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: "Killer Bs Discussion" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Subject: Re: DEFENDERS OF THE SANCTITY OF MARRIAGE
Date: Fri, 19 Mar 2004 08:17:40 -0600
> From: John Doe <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
>
> >From: "John D. Giorgis" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
>
> >"The liberty we prize is not America's gift to the
world,
> >it is God's gift to humanity." - George W. Bush
1/29/03
>
> But what if I don't believe in God?
That means you are above average in intelligence and education.
Huh? I don't think so Fool. Essentially, what you are saying is that if one 
does not believe in God, they are smarter than the average bear. Well, 
that's not how it works. You see, what just might put you on or above the 
level of Yogi, is recognizing that taking a blind stand behind an issue is 
often flawed. In this case it's belief in God or the concept of. And the 
truth is, nobody really knows. Unless of course you're privy to some 
information that the rest of us mere mortals are not.

-Travis "I doubt it" Edmunds

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Taiwan President assassination attempt

[The Fool]

<>

Taiwan President Chen Shui-bian survived an assassination attempt on
Friday while campaigning on the eve of a presidential election, escaping
with a bullet wound to the stomach.

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Re: DEFENDERS OF THE SANCTITY OF MARRIAGE

[The Fool]

> From: Ronn!Blankenship <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
> 
> At 08:17 AM 3/19/04, The Fool wrote:
> > > From: John Doe <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
> > >
> > > >From: "John D. Giorgis" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
> > >
> > > >"The liberty we prize is not America's gift to the
> >world,
> > > >it is God's gift to humanity." - George W. Bush
> >1/29/03
> > >
> > > But what if I don't believe in God?
> >
> >That means you are above average in intelligence and education.
> 
> "O that cunning plan of the evil one! O the vainness, and the
frailties, 
> and the foolishness of men! When they are learned they think they are
wise, 
> and they hearken not unto the counsel of God, for they set it aside, 
> supposing they know of themselves, wherefore, their wisdom is
foolishness 
> and it profiteth them not. And they shall perish.  But to be learned is

> good if they hearken unto the counsels of God."  (2 Nephi 9:28-29)
>

 
"A lunatic is easily recognized.  He is a moron who doesn't know the
ropes.  The moron proves his thesis; he has a logic, however twisted
it may be.  The lunatic, on the other hand, doesn't concern himself at
all with logic; he works by short circuits.  For him, everything
proves everything else.  The lunatic is all idee fixe, and whatever he
comes across confirms his lunacy.  You can tell him by the liberties
he takes with common sense, by his flashes of inspiration, and by the
fact that sooner or later he brings up the Templars."
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Re: Immigration and Inequality Re: Race to the Bottom

[The Fool]

> From: John D. Giorgis <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
> 
> At 05:30 PM 3/17/2004 -0800 Gautam Mukunda wrote:
> >What do you mean by needs?  
> 
> I mean that if we were suddenly to get rid of the millions of illegal
> workers in the country, we would have a very difficult time finding
> millions of people to work in construction, fruit and vegetable
picking,
> and janitorial/custodial services.This would, of course, be
disastrous
> for our economy.   In addition, as you are well aware, our country
badly
> needs immigration to keep our population up as we hit the demographic
bulge.

Here you argue vehemently against the laws of supply and demand.

Your argument is equivalent to pro-slavery arguments.
 
>  In my mind, isn't it far better to let the
> *market* decide what sort of labor it needs, and to let people who can
find
> jobs to accept the employment that is offered to them?

Here you argue vehemently for the laws of supply and demand.

So which is it?  Or are you just being a typical reptiliKlan hypocrite?
 
> I also find it difficult to believe that immigrants are a net burden on
> social services.   In general, immigrants are not elgible for welfare,
and
> those restrictions were tightened in 1996.   Immigrants are generally
not
> elgible for things like Social Security, Medicare, and Unemployment
either.
>   Indeed, in general immigrants tend to have jobs and to the extent
that we
> can regularize that employment of the millions of illegal immigrants
> already here, then can presumably become taxpayers as well.   To the
extent
> that immigrants bring and produce children that need to be educated, I
tend
> to consider that an investment in our future tax base, and indeed, most
> studies have found that second generation immigrants are very likely to
be
> net tax contributors.

So I take it you'd like to return to slavery or the Confederacy.  Typical
reptiliKKKlan.

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Re: Tyranny

[The Fool]

> John D. Giorgis spouting Pope Brand(tm) right-wing extremism:
> 
> Deborah, the campaign against partial-birth abortion has lasted, I
think,
> nearly a decade.   Because we live in a republic, political change
requires
> the changing of the hearts and minds of ordinary Americans.   For
better or
> for worse, those hearts and minds are not going to be changed while
relying
> upon the medical jargon of academia.  Rather it was necessary to
> communicate to the American people exactly what "dilation and
extraction"
> means - partially birthing a child, and then killing it.

JDG, the campaign against women's rights has lasted, I think, nearly a
century.  Because we live in a democratic republic, political change
requires implementing a legislative/judicial slippery slope to change the
jurisprudence and opinions of ordinary Judges and Legislators.  For
better or for worse, those Judges and Legislator are not going to be
changed while relying upon science facts and evidence.  Rather it was
necessary to use Newspeak to Propagandize the American people to elect
Legislators and Get Judges appointed who don't know what science facts
and evidence mean - that all people are created (through evolution)
equal.

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RE: Libertarian Purity Test

[Kevin Tarr]

At 05:02 PM 3/18/2004, you wrote:

> "John D. Giorgis" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> > Horn, John wrote:
> >> From: Kevin Tarr [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]
> >> http://www.bcaplan.com/cgi/purity.cgi

> >11.
> >Kinda reassuring, actually.
> What is reassuring is that *someone* finally had a
> lower score than I did.
>
> 18
> JDG - Resident crazy conservative, right?
As a 16, can I claim to be one of the list's most
bizarrely unpredictable WRT political issues?   ;)
(Actually, I agree with whoever said that the wording
was far too strong to answer a flat 'yes' to many
questions, but a graded response would have placed me
on a somewhat more libertarian side.  But only
somewhat!)
Debbi
Every question seemed easy to me; they were straight forward.
Paraphrasing:
Do you think medical marijuana should be legal Y/N?
Do you think carrying less than 5 grams of marijuana should be legal?
Do you think any amount of M should be legal?
Do you think all drugs should be decriminalised?
Isn't that how a person forms their thoughts? No qualifications, no if/but; 
just this is the issue in black and white, this is a dividing line, which 
side do you choose?

Even though I had a high score (compared to others on the list) some of the 
final questions were turning my stomach.

The libertarian party is having a convention in Harrisburg this weekend. 
Don't know if it's statewide or national. I was thinking of going, but not now.

Kevin T. - VRWC
Going to play cards at camp instead. If we can get to it, another couple 
inches of snow last night. 
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Re: Abstinence education Re: Liberal Talkradio Network ToLaunchMarch 31

[Dan Minette]

- Original Message - 
From: "The Fool" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: "Killer Bs Discussion" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Sent: Friday, March 19, 2004 8:58 AM
Subject: Re: Abstinence education Re: Liberal Talkradio Network
ToLaunchMarch 31

> You are forgetting that JDG is a dealer in Pope Brand(tm) sex-education,
> which exposits that any and all birth control are EVIL, just as evil as
> Abortion.

IIRC, JDG's position of conscience on this matter is to respectfully differ
with the teaching of the Catholic Church.

Dan M>

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Re: Abstinence education Re: Liberal Talkradio Network ToLaunchMarch 31

[The Fool]

> From: Dan Minette <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
> 
> From: "John D. Giorgis" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
> 
> > At 02:50 PM 3/16/2004 -0800 Deborah Harrell wrote:
> > >> First, the is no a priori religious connection to
> > >> abstinence.   There are a
> > >> number of very sound reasons for strongly advising
> > >> high school students - and younger, to not have sex.
> > >
> > >As I have clearly advocated in various posts.  But
> > >there certainly _is_ a connection to *abstinence only*
> > >programs -- which are the ones I referred to.  As I
> > >clearly stated in my posts.
> >
> > But again, there is no a priori reason for it to be so.
> 
> No, but a posteriori reasons are also valid.
> 
> I have a general question for you.  If you compare the abortion rate in
the
> US with the abortion rate in Europe, you will find that the US has had
a
> higher rate than virtually any country in Western Europe.  One
significant
> difference between the US and many countries is the attitude towards
birth
> control.  Teenage pregnancies are much more frequent in the US than in
> Europe, although teenage sex isn't.
> 
> Since abortion is a great evil, and birth control isn't, isn't it best
to
> teach kids the dangers of having sex early, but tell them how they can
> greatly decrease the chances of pregnancy with birth control and the
> chances of STDs with condoms instead of insisting on abstinence only as
the
> only sex education to get Federal money?  Wouldn't that at least
decrease
> the number of abortions?

You are forgetting that JDG is a dealer in Pope Brand(tm) sex-education,
which exposits that any and all birth control are EVIL, just as evil as
Abortion.

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RE: DEFENDERS OF THE SANCTITY OF MARRIAGE

[ritu]

John Doe wrote:

> 
> >"The liberty we prize is not America's gift 
> to the world,
> >it is God's gift to humanity." - George W. 
> Bush 1/29/03
> 
> But what if I don't believe in God?

I don't think that makes a difference as long as She believes in you. ;)

Ritu


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Re: 'The Passion' May Be Reducing Anti-Semitism

[The Fool]

> From: Kevin Tarr <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
> 
> At 09:36 PM 3/16/2004, you wrote:
> 
> >http://www.click2houston.com/entertainment/2925553/detail.html
> >
> >
> >
> >rob
> 
> 
> Plus all the middle eastern/Muslim countries that want to show the
movie? 
> Iran, Egypt, Syria, Lebanon. Saudi Arabia is dropping it's ban against 
> images that show a Prophet* so the movie can be viewed there. *(They 
> consider Jebus to a Prophet,
> just not the son of gob).
  ^^^
  dog

And the french muslims bringing the film to france, because no one else
will distrubute it there...

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Re: March Madness!

[Medievalbk]

Z...

Zz...

Z...

>yawn<

Huh?   Oh.

March blandness is over here.


William Taylor

Saved ourselves from a Duke blowout.

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Re: Lieing Under Oath

[The Fool]

> From: John D. Giorgis <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
> 
> At 10:57 AM 3/16/2004 -0600 Horn, John wrote:
> >The issue here in many people's minds is given what we've learned
> >about the intelligence, folks don't think that Bush "believed it to
> >be true".  That it was a convenient story to get what he wanted.  
> 
> My, how far have we come from four years ago when Bush's critics
thought
> that he was too dumb to come up with any original thoughts beyond what
he
> was told.Now, of course, he is a very clever manipulator of the US
> intelligence services.

He ~is~ too dumb to come up with any original thoughts on his own.  He
even messes up the rhetoric his handlers feed him on a regular basis. 
Rove / Cheney are the real puppetmasters behind ShrubFuhrer.

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Re: March Madness!

[John D. Giorgis]

At 03:36 PM 3/18/2004 -0500 Tom Beck wrote:
>For sports fans, this is one of the best times of the year. 

I am happy to fully agree with Tom here.   While I am a big time NFL fan,
for me the opening weekend of the NCAA Tournment is the premier sporting
event of the world.

The beauty of college basketball is that with only five players on the
floor a school of almost any size can put together a group of 5 or 6 very
special guys and play with the best.

>Anyway, I'll deal with baseball in a week or two. With regard to
>college basketball: I went to a Division 3 school (tiny Hamilton
>College, in upstate New York), so I have no alma mater to cheer for
>in the so-called Big Dance.

I went to D-III CWRU, where our Men's Basketball Coach was once named NCAC
"Coach of the Year" after pulling a .500 season.

As a side note, however, my uncle, Brian Giorgis, is one of the
most-decorated high school women's basketball coaches in New York State
history, and in his second year at Marist University has led the Red Foxes
to their first NCAA Women's Tournament Birth *ever*, after upsetting Siena
in the MAAC Championship game.   They surprisingly pulled a 14 seed, and
will play Oklahoma on Saturday.Its been a big surprise for our family
because Brian told us that he figured it would take a couple of years to
turn the Marist program around - until he managed to recruit his own class
of players.   We'll see if he can't pull another small  miracle on
Saturday

> For various reasons I root for mighty
>Duke University, and also for not-quite-so-mighty Princeton (where I
>went to grad school). 

Unlike most college basketball fans who aren't Duke fans (and who tend to
revile Duke, in large part because of their incredible success, as well as
their arrogance), I have a soft spot in my heart for the Dukies since
Christian Laettner's mom was my third-grade teacher, and Christian
Laettner's brother (who is also quite tall BTW), was a substitute teacher
in my Middle School.

Like most Upstate New Yorker's, however, my fan allegiance lies with
Syracuse  I still can't believe that we actually won last year... its
like a deam.

>East Rutherford: Oklahoma State (could also be Pittsburgh or
>Wisconsin; don't give St. Joseph's too much of a shot here, as they
>just aren't physical enough to hang with the tough guys).

Sorry, but I hate the discounting of St. Joseph's.   An undefeated season
is pretty incredible no matter *what* League you play in and the
Atlantic-10 produced *four* tournament teams this year.   St. Joseph's is
definitey at least as good as Marquette, who made the Final Four last year.

Wisconsin is dangerous, having its first two games in Milwaukee, but
ultimately I think that Pittsburgh's defense will prevail.

>St. Louis: Kentucky. This is by far the easiest region.

Hold on just a second here Washington is the hottest team in the
country, and they have already shown that they can hang with anybody,
having handed Stanford their only loss this year.   A lot of people I
really respect as basketball analysts, including Jim Boeheim, say that GA
Tech has real potential to get hot and make a run.   I think that Michigan
State, who suffered psychologically early on from their burtal schedule,
and Providence - who plays that bracket-busting zone defense and have a
great player in Ryan Gomes - have the potential to be dark horses.   And
Gonzaga, whose only losses were to undefeated St. Joseph's and once-beated
Stanford is a strong team as well.

I am going to boldly pick that Kentucky will be the first #1 seed to lose a
game and narrowly like GA Tech over Gonzaga.

>Atlanta: Duke. I always pick Duke, both because they usually have at
>least a good shot, and also because if I picked against them, I would
>feel I had to root against them and I never do that. This is by far
>the toughest region, and the Blue Devils have not played well the
>last 3 weeks. But the tournament is always undiscovered country, and
>no coach in the world is better than Coach K at getting a team to
>forget the immediate past and play as if there were no yesterday and
>no tomorrow. Everyone's 0-0 today.

I don't see how Atlanta became the consensus "toughest" region - even
though such talk is purely academic since each bracket has 16 seeds.
O.k., I like Duke and MS St. a lot, but Texas?   They've lost a lot of
players since their Final Four run last year.   Sure Arizona has a lot of
experience, but they struggled in a very weak Pac-10 this year.   A lot of
people think that Cincinnati is the weakest of the five CUSA co-champions,
and Illinois was thoroughly exposed by Wisconsin in a very, very, weak Big
10 Conference.   I would rate Seton Hall is the weakest of the Big East
teams as well... and the Big East's very high level of defense can pose a
lot of problems for teams from other conferences.To the extent that one
bracket can be stronger than the others, I just don't see it in Atlanta.

My pick is MS St., which despite havin

Re: DEFENDERS OF THE SANCTITY OF MARRIAGE

[Ronn!Blankenship]

At 08:17 AM 3/19/04, The Fool wrote:
> From: John Doe <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
>
> >From: "John D. Giorgis" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
>
> >"The liberty we prize is not America's gift to the
world,
> >it is God's gift to humanity." - George W. Bush
1/29/03
>
> But what if I don't believe in God?
That means you are above average in intelligence and education.


"O that cunning plan of the evil one! O the vainness, and the frailties, 
and the foolishness of men! When they are learned they think they are wise, 
and they hearken not unto the counsel of God, for they set it aside, 
supposing they know of themselves, wherefore, their wisdom is foolishness 
and it profiteth them not. And they shall perish.  But to be learned is 
good if they hearken unto the counsels of God."  (2 Nephi 9:28-29)



-- Ronn!  :)

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Re: DEFENDERS OF THE SANCTITY OF MARRIAGE

[The Fool]

> From: John Doe <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
> 
> >From: "John D. Giorgis" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
> 
> >"The liberty we prize is not America's gift to the
world,
> >it is God's gift to humanity." - George W. Bush
1/29/03
> 
> But what if I don't believe in God?

That means you are above average in intelligence and education.
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Re: [ADMIN] Call for administrative action

[Travis Edmunds]

From: Deborah Harrell <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Reply-To: Killer Bs Discussion <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: Killer Bs Discussion <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Subject: Re: [ADMIN] Call for administrative action
Date: Thu, 18 Mar 2004 14:33:53 -0800 (PST)
> I have a favor to ask Deborah. Could you please give
> me an overview in a
> nutshell of that post? I'm not following all the way
> or something, and I
> don't want to jump to conclusions. So if you could
> indeed explain that a
> little more clearly, I would greatly appreciate it.
"Humor -- it is a difficult concept."
Just call me Spock. Or to better keep with the times, Tuvok.

'The best defense against flame warring is excessive
silliness' -- or something to that effect.
A "logical" statement.


 You do realize that I was agreeing with your
statement WRT 'some people just may be ignoring this
as childish?'
Honestly I didn't. I noted agreement in the first paragraph, noted silliness 
in the rest, followed you up until the "trolling" bit, then got lost in a 
big pile of cranio-rectal dystocia...haha...!!

And with all the "silliness", I didn't know whether or not you having a 
laugh at my expense.


Debbi
Is That Clearer? Maru  :)
Yup. Thanks for clearing that up.

-Travis "T'pal???...nah...she's a girl...I'd rather be Sarek" Edmunds

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Re: Terrorists Win in Spain

[Travis Edmunds]

From: "Robert Seeberger" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Reply-To: Killer Bs Discussion <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: "Killer Bs Discussion" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Subject: Re: Terrorists Win in Spain
Date: Thu, 18 Mar 2004 18:48:13 -0600
- Original Message -
From: "Travis Edmunds" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Sent: Thursday, March 18, 2004 11:26 AM
Subject: Re: Terrorists Win in Spain
But, in Canada
disagreeing
> with the Bush admin, there was certainly a backwash against us down
south.
> And I would be very interested in ANY American opinions on this.
>
What I remember most about that backlash.was the backlash against
the backlash where people remembered how well Canadians took care of
displaced Americans on 911 and several days after.
Canadian hospitality in the wake of a disaster is not and will not be
forgotten.
xponent
Our Differences Are Few Maru
rob
Ah shucks...it was the least we could do...

After all, it WAS your country that spawned Axl Rose. We HAVE to thank you 
for that.

But seriously though, regardless of the fact that we were hospitipal (common 
decency), we as Canadians (at least I think "we" applies) feel as if 
Americans, or those Americans who supported the Iraq war, look down on us 
for deciding not to go in. And what I'm driving at here, is what exactly do 
you Americans think of our decision? I don't care about political strife 
between the politicians on both sides of the border. I can see that on the 
evening news. However, I do care about the "average" American's outlook. For 
there is this tendancy in Americans, to see things as an American.(Go 
figure!!) Just as I see things as a Canadian. And we, as Canadians get the 
feeling that there is a bold yet subtle implication of "you're either with 
us or against us". And excuse me for saying so, but that is so American of 
you. At the same time though, a policy like that, a hard-ass policy, is 
almost needed. But it's quite arrogant, all the same.

Anyway, does it exist? Is it the majority view? Is the White House really 
black? If so, then shouldn't they call it the Black House?

-Travis "Freedom Fries" Edmunds

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RE: Terrorists Win in Spain

[Travis Edmunds]

From: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Reply-To: Killer Bs Discussion <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Subject: RE: Terrorists Win in Spain
Date: Thu, 18 Mar 2004 15:23:06 -0800
>
> You don't have to apologize Doug. It's no biggie. But, in
> Canada disagreeing
> with the Bush admin, there was certainly a backwash against
> us down south.
> And I would be very interested in ANY American opinions on this.
I thought we made it VERY clear in the South Park Movie!?!?!!!

"...Heck no, Blame Canada! Blame Canada!
With their hockey hullabaloo, and that bitch Anne Murray, too!
Blame Canada! Shame on Canada..
For, the smut we must stop.. the trash we must smash..
The laugher and fun.. must all be undone..
We must blame them.. and cause a fuss..
before somebody thinks of blaming us!"
Lyrics from South Park Movie
Nerd From Hell

Very good Chad...

Now I wanna hear you do a good Cartman impression and start singing:

I'M SAILING AWAY...

SET AN OPEN COURSE, FOR THE VIRGIN SEA...

-Travis "a gathering of angels???...on your HEAD?!?!?!?" Edmunds

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Re: Terrorists Win in Spain

[The Fool]

> From: Mike Lee <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
> 
> > Let's say, Kerry wins the US 
> > Presidential elections. He is going to dramatically alter the 
> > US response to terrorism. Would that too count as a win for Al-Qaeda?
> 
> They'll think it is.

Likewise a victory for ShrubFuhrer will be a victory for fascism.
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Re: Thoughts on gay marriage?

[The Fool]

> From: Reggie Bautista <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
> 
> From: "The Fool" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
> 
> >
> > One of the most irrational of all the conventions of modern society
is
> > the one to the effect that religious opinions should be respected.
> > ...[This] convention protects them, and so they proceed with their
> > blather unwhipped and almost unmolested, to the great damage of
common
> > sense and common decency. that they should have this immunity is an
> > outrage. There is nothing in religious ideas, as a class, to lift
them
> > above other ideas. On the contrary, they are always dubious and often
> > quite silly. Nor is there any visible intellectual dignity in
> > theologians. Few of them know anything that is worth knowing, and not
> > many of them are even honest.
> 
> So you think freedom of speech should protect use of the word "fuck"
but
> shouldn't protect the right of people to talk about their religious
beliefs?

Nowhere does this quote say or imply that.  End of discussion.
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Re: The Closest Near Miss On Record - Today

[Robert J. Chassell]

> The object, designated 2004 FH, is roughly 30 meters (100 feet)
> in diameter ...

Using Shoemaker's formula, a crater of diameter approximately
equal to 8.5 meters...

How does a 30 meter object, coming in at multiple kilometers per
second, produce a crater smaller than itself?

Are you sure your decimal point is right?

What is Shoemaker's formula?

How many km/sec are you presuming?

-- 
Robert J. Chassell Rattlesnake Enterprises
http://www.rattlesnake.com  GnuPG Key ID: 004B4AC8
http://www.teak.cc [EMAIL PROTECTED]
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Re: The Closest Near Miss On Record - Today

[Robert J. Chassell]

Alberto Monteiro <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> asked

[... I wonder how much was the TNT-equivalent of the WTC or
Spanish attacks]

I heard it said that the TNT-equivalent of the WTC attacks was ~0.1
kiloton, mostly from the energy of the fuel in the airplanes.  The
explosive used in the Spanish attacks was much less, measured in
kilograms rather than tonnes.

-- 
Robert J. Chassell Rattlesnake Enterprises
http://www.rattlesnake.com  GnuPG Key ID: 004B4AC8
http://www.teak.cc [EMAIL PROTECTED]
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Re: The Closest Near Miss On Record - Today

[Alberto Monteiro]

Robert Seeberger wrote:
>
 The object, designated 2004 FH, is roughly 30 meters 
>
>> Using Shoemaker's formula, a crater of diameter approximately
>> equal to 8.5 meters, or the equivalent to 0.1 kilotons of TNT [1% of
>> Hiroshima - I wonder how much was the TNT-equivalent of the
>> WTC or Spanish attacks]
>
> How can the crater be so much smaller than the asteroid itself?
>
Because I made some error in Shoemaker's formula O:-)

> I figured a 30 meter rock would severely damage an average sized city
> since it would entail a pretty large concussion.
>
Looking at the table, I also think so. And looking at an example,
I would resize the crater to 1000 meters or so.

Alberto Monteiro

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Re: L3 Bitter Mellons, Gin and Tonic, and a an Un- reasonable vie w.

[Sonja van Baardwijk-Holten]

Alberto Monteiro wrote:

Gautam Mukunda wrote:
 

The particular case of the slave who was 1/64th blck
was quite famous.  

   

How interesting, there's a famous brazilian _romance_
of the XIX century with the same story, "Escrava Isaura"
[Slave-woman Isaura], who was turned into a soap-opera,
and, despite its blatant racism, is the most popular
br soap opera outside of Brazil.
 

Yep, seen some of it. It was to soapy for my taste.

Sonja
GCU: soap - bubbles - colors - plop!
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US online population tops 200 million: survey

[Robert Seeberger]

http://news.yahoo.com/news?tmpl=story2&cid=1506&u=/afp/20040318/ts_alt_afp/us_internet_users_040318153554&printer=1

The number of Americans with Internet access has topped 200 million,
or nearly three-fourths of the US population older than two, a survey
showed.


Nielsen/NetRatings, said its survey from February showed 204.3 million
people or 74.9 percent of the over-two population of 272.8 million.
That was up nine percentage points from the same period a year ago.


"In just a handful of years, online access has managed to gain the
type of traction that took other mediums decades to achieve," said
Kenneth Cassar, director of strategic analysis at Nielsen/NetRatings.


The survey, which measured access as opposed to usage, found that
women represent a higher proportion of Web surfers, with 82 percent or
34.6 million women between the ages of 35-54 accessing the Internet at
home.


Some 80 percent of men in this age or 32.4 million, had Web access,
the survey found.


Seventy-seven percent of females in the 25-34 age group are Web
surfers, while 75.6 percent of males in this age bracket have Internet
access.


"Women make the majority of purchases and household decisions, so it's
no surprise that they are utilizing the Internet as a tool for daily
living," said Cassar.





xponent

By The Numbers Maru

rob


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Re: Complaint (Was: Re: Thoughts on gay marriage?)

[Sonja van Baardwijk-Holten]

Jon Gabriel wrote:

Then have some respect for the rest of us innocent bystanders and take 
your bashing offlist and out of our mailboxes.
If you and all the others who were so vehemently bashing fools virtual 
head in would kindly remember to come forward and as zealously defend 
other victims of abuse even if one doesn't agree with their points of 
view the next time anybody else starts throwing around insults, this 
list would be greatly helped.

Sonja
GCU: equality rocks
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Re: Mexico [was: Terrorists Win in Spain]

[Robert Seeberger]

- Original Message - 
From: "Alberto Monteiro" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: "Killer Bs Discussion" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Sent: Thursday, March 18, 2004 8:34 AM
Subject: Mexico [was: Terrorists Win in Spain]


> JDG wrote:
> >
> > (As an aside, I don't think that *anyone* would call Mexico one of
our
> > strongest "allies".   Indeed, Mexico recently withdrew from their
formal
> > military alliance with us (this alliance also includes Haiti, St.
Kitts and
> > Nevis,  and Venezuela, for what it was worth.) Mexico is
certainly one
> > of our strongest trading partners, but have never really been a
formal
> > ally.)
> >
> Specially since the USA still mantains a military occupation of
> half of Mexico, and treats the mexican residents of occupied Mexico
> worse than Israel treats the palestines in occupied Palestina
> :-
>

Our eyes turn to the south.







xponent
The Imperial Department Of Imperialism Maru
rob


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Re: Terrorists Win in Spain

[Matt Grimaldi]

Travis Edmunds wrote:
> 
> >From: Doug Pensinger <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
> >Reply-To: Killer Bs Discussion <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
> >To: Killer Bs Discussion <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
> >Subject: Re: Terrorists Win in Spain
> >Date: Wed, 17 Mar 2004 23:42:08 -0800
> >
> >Travis wrote:
> >
> >
> >>Being a proud Canadian, I take offense to that Doug. We are STILL (not
> >>WAS) one of your staunchest allies. Nothing has changed in that respect.
> >>And I challenge you to prove me wrong.
> >>
> >>As a side note, I would be interested in hearing some American thoughts on
> >>the Canada-USA relationship, and how or if it has changed in your minds.
> >>Basically, what do you think of us?
> >
> >Woa there, porr wording by myself.  Yes, Canada is one of our staunchest
> >allies, but they disagreed with the Bush admin. on this one. which was the
> >only point I was trying to make.  Sorry
> >
> >
> 
> You don't have to apologize Doug. It's no biggie. But, in Canada disagreeing
> with the Bush admin, there was certainly a backwash against us down south.
> And I would be very interested in ANY American opinions on this.
> 
> -Travis "you're either with us or against us" Edmunds
> 

I seem to remember some asshole company refusing to send
anything to canadian addresses from its mail order business.
This was during the same period when anyone urging caution,
examining/collecting evidence, and/or getting world opinion
on our side, was accused of being unpatriotic.

-- Matt
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Re: Mexico [was: Terrorists Win in Spain]

[Matt Grimaldi]

Alberto Monteiro wrote:
> 
> JDG wrote:
> >
> > (As an aside, I don't think that *anyone* would call Mexico one of our
> > strongest "allies".   Indeed, Mexico recently withdrew from their formal
> > military alliance with us (this alliance also includes Haiti, St. Kitts and
> > Nevis,  and Venezuela, for what it was worth.) Mexico is certainly one
> > of our strongest trading partners, but have never really been a formal
> > ally.)
> >
> Specially since the USA still mantains a military occupation of
> half of Mexico, and treats the mexican residents of occupied Mexico
> worse than Israel treats the palestines in occupied Palestina
> :-
> 
> Alberto Monteiro


It is *not* "occupied mexico" and has not been for over 150 years.
The territory officially changed hands from the Mexican Govt. and
became the property of the U.S. govt.  Mexico recognizes U.S. ownership
of these lands and has done so since the end of that war.

-- Matt

Who just remembered a random statistic saying something like:
More people die attempting to cross the US/Mexico border each
year than did attempting to cross the Berlin Wall during its
entire existence.
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Re: New Pentagon Papers Author

[Matt Grimaldi]

"John D. Giorgis" wrote:
> 
> At 03:15 AM 3/18/2004 -0800 Gautam Mukunda wrote:
> >In 1944, FDR ran ads asking "How many divisions is a
> >Republican victory worth to the Nazis?"  I don't see
> >Bush doing that yet...
> 
> I believe that he also kicked off his campaign in Pearl
> Harbor, and issued campaign buttons that said "I Remember."
> 
> I can only imagine the outrage if Bush used that
> phrase in a campaign ad.
> 
> JDG
> 

It would be the same outrage if any politician
were to use something like it today.  Our horizons
and standards are different than they were 60+ years
ago.

-- Matt
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