Re: My annual Xmas tirade... Was RE: An armed society ...
On 22 Dec 2005, at 3:07 am, Russell Chapman wrote: William T Goodall wrote: Microsoft attained its dominant position in the personal computer software business through 1) Luck 2) Illegal business practices 3) The mistakes of its competitors and since a) Luck eventually runs out b) Microsoft is now closely scrutinised to ensure it doesn't break the law anymore c) The competition has wised up Microsoft's position can only decline from now. Microsoft may yet have another life if it manages to dominate the living room in the way it has done the office. Sales between Thanksgiving and Christmas of Media Centre edition PCs in the US have been staggering. They may have shown a staggering increase, but since the sales of Media Centre have been negligible for the last few years that doesn't amount to much. Perhaps this is the year it finally takes off. It's not that MS get that much more for the Media Centre version of Windows (they do, of course) but the stake being claimed in the living room. Once Xbox360 takes that next step into people's home lives, it may be that they have got far enough. Sony's devices are better, Apple's 10foot interface is better, but it's the Microsoft stuff people will have, so it is Microsoft that the content providers will have to deal with. The content providers are clearly signalling that they don't want to be locked into one DRM environment. And especially not Microsoft's. Rather than breaking the law, they will just ensure that DRM laws etc benefit them in the first place... The most widely used DRM system on Windows PCs now is Apple's Fairplay. -- William T Goodall Mail : [EMAIL PROTECTED] Web : http://www.wtgab.demon.co.uk Blog : http://radio.weblogs.com/0111221/ "A bad thing done for a good cause is still a bad thing. It's why so few people slap their political opponents. That, and because slapping looks so silly." - Randy Cohen. ___ http://www.mccmedia.com/mailman/listinfo/brin-l
Re: My annual Xmas tirade... Was RE: An armed society ...
Jim Sharkey wrote: William T Goodall wrote: Max Battcher wrote: Last time I saw anything: 75-80% total, 50% or less of the Server market, 50% or less of the "nerd" market. Whatever the peak was it's certainly in decline now. Yeah, Gates is letting his guard slip with all that sissy-ass philanthropy Bono's got him involved in. He's *clearly* lost his evil overlord his edge. :) I'm not complaining -- some of that money is coming to near me. Of course, between Dell Computers and Michael & Susan Dell, we get a fair bit of computer-money philanthropy in the area anyway. :) I think the Dell name is going onto at least a wing of the new children's hospital that's being built in Austin. I'm sure a bunch of the equipment in it will be Dell stuff, as well; they were using Dell equipment for Tommy's upper GI series a little over a year ago at the existing children's hospital. Julia ___ http://www.mccmedia.com/mailman/listinfo/brin-l
Re: My annual Xmas tirade... Was RE: An armed society ...
William T Goodall wrote: Microsoft attained its dominant position in the personal computer software business through 1) Luck 2) Illegal business practices 3) The mistakes of its competitors and since a) Luck eventually runs out b) Microsoft is now closely scrutinised to ensure it doesn't break the law anymore c) The competition has wised up Microsoft's position can only decline from now. Microsoft may yet have another life if it manages to dominate the living room in the way it has done the office. Sales between Thanksgiving and Christmas of Media Centre edition PCs in the US have been staggering. It's not that MS get that much more for the Media Centre version of Windows (they do, of course) but the stake being claimed in the living room. Once Xbox360 takes that next step into people's home lives, it may be that they have got far enough. Sony's devices are better, Apple's 10foot interface is better, but it's the Microsoft stuff people will have, so it is Microsoft that the content providers will have to deal with. Rather than breaking the law, they will just ensure that DRM laws etc benefit them in the first place... Cheers Russell C. --- This email (including any attachments) is confidential and copyright. The School makes no warranty about the content of this email. Unless expressly stated, this email does not bind the School and does not necessarily constitute the opinion of the School. If you have received this email in error, please delete it and notify the sender. --- <<<>>> ___ http://www.mccmedia.com/mailman/listinfo/brin-l
Re: My annual Xmas tirade... Was RE: An armed society ...
> From: Dan Minette <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> > > From: "Dave Land" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> > > > > > >> It may have had something to do with a small cadre of power-hungry, > > >> greedy bastards who manipulated the system for their benefit. > > But, they didn't manipulate the system for their personal benefit. If they > did, they would have lived rich. They manipulated the system to achieve > their ideal. Unfortunately, their ideal ran against the reality of > centrally controlled economies. >...the inefficiencies destroy wealth. Short of devaluation from inflation and actual physical destruction money (as opposed to physical good or 'wealth') isn't destroyed. Money flows through an economy passing from entity to entity or it is hoarded by an entity (physically under the mattres, or in a bank which reloans it at interest). I see that you believe that when some money flows to some entities (regardless of the value of the exchange) that 'wealth' (money) is 'destroyed'. Perhaps if the 'wealth' flowed to rich or state entities you could call that wealth 'destoyed', but 'wealth' that flows to and through the general populace is likely not 'destroyed' at at. > > The Soviet economy went backwards because centrally planned economies are > notoriously inefficient. Inefficient means that more money goes down the > toilet. > > Let me ask a question from another post. You argued that two jobs were > lost for every job created when Wal-Mart comes into a town. Doesn't that > mean that Wal-Mart needs only half the people to do the same amount of > work? Are you arguing that featherbedding is a good idea? Lets extend this out thirty or so years. Eventually their will be relitively few jobs that humans would be able to do that technology wouldn't be able to do better and cheaper. With unemployment reaching into the high ninties, very little 'wealth' will flow through the economy at all. Noone would be able to buy the things that the economy produced except the rich. What need would there be for those people then? ___ http://www.mccmedia.com/mailman/listinfo/brin-l
Re: My annual Xmas tirade... Was RE: An armed society ...
On 21 Dec 2005, at 7:04 pm, Jim Sharkey wrote: William T Goodall wrote: Max Battcher wrote: Last time I saw anything: 75-80% total, 50% or less of the Server market, 50% or less of the "nerd" market. Whatever the peak was it's certainly in decline now. Yeah, Gates is letting his guard slip with all that sissy-ass philanthropy Bono's got him involved in. He's *clearly* lost his evil overlord his edge. :) Microsoft attained its dominant position in the personal computer software business through 1) Luck 2) Illegal business practices 3) The mistakes of its competitors and since a) Luck eventually runs out b) Microsoft is now closely scrutinised to ensure it doesn't break the law anymore c) The competition has wised up Microsoft's position can only decline from now. -- William T Goodall Mail : [EMAIL PROTECTED] Web : http://www.wtgab.demon.co.uk Blog : http://radio.weblogs.com/0111221/ "Aerospace is plumbing with the volume turned up." - John Carmack ___ http://www.mccmedia.com/mailman/listinfo/brin-l
Re: My annual Xmas tirade... Was RE: An armed society ...
- Original Message - From: "Dave Land" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> To: "Killer Bs Discussion" Sent: Wednesday, December 21, 2005 6:03 PM Subject: Re: My annual Xmas tirade... Was RE: An armed society ... > > >> It may have had something to do with a small cadre of power-hungry, > >> greedy bastards who manipulated the system for their benefit. But, they didn't manipulate the system for their personal benefit. If they did, they would have lived rich. They manipulated the system to achieve their ideal. Unfortunately, their ideal ran against the reality of centrally controlled economiesthe inefficiencies destroy wealth. The Soviet economy went backwards because centrally planned economies are notoriously inefficient. Inefficient means that more money goes down the toilet. Let me ask a question from another post. You argued that two jobs were lost for every job created when Wal-Mart comes into a town. Doesn't that mean that Wal-Mart needs only half the people to do the same amount of work? Are you arguing that featherbedding is a good idea? Dan M. ___ http://www.mccmedia.com/mailman/listinfo/brin-l
Re: My annual Xmas tirade... Was RE: An armed society ...
On Dec 21, 2005, at 3:52 PM, Dan Minette wrote: - Original Message - From: "Dave Land" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> On Dec 20, 2005, at 8:57 PM, Dan Minette wrote: From: "The Fool" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> Ineffiencies *are* the economy. Perfect efficiencies would lead to 0% employment and complete economic collapse. Ah, so that explains why the economy of the Soviet Union outperformed the US for so long. :-) I venture that the problem with the Soviet economy was not simply a matter of inefficiency. It may have had something to do with a small cadre of power-hungry, greedy bastards who manipulated the system for their benefit. Actually, they didn't live rich, compared to a US millionaire at the time. The GDP of the Soviet Union went backwards during it's last 10 years or so.. Interviews after the war indicated that many in the upper echelons of the Communist party still believed in their ideals. Of course, I didn't say that they lived rich compared to anybody, but that's how "I don't have a leg to stand on" arguments go, isn't it: how's that straw man coming along? I said: It may have had something to do with a small cadre of power-hungry, greedy bastards who manipulated the system for their benefit. Sound familiar? Dave ___ http://www.mccmedia.com/mailman/listinfo/brin-l
Re: My annual Xmas tirade... Was RE: An armed society ...
- Original Message - From: "Dave Land" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> To: "Killer Bs Discussion" Sent: Wednesday, December 21, 2005 4:46 PM Subject: Re: My annual Xmas tirade... Was RE: An armed society ... > On Dec 20, 2005, at 8:57 PM, Dan Minette wrote: > > > From: "The Fool" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> > > > >> Ineffiencies *are* the economy. Perfect efficiencies would lead > >> to 0% > >> employment and complete economic collapse. > > > > Ah, so that explains why the economy of the Soviet Union > > outperformed the > > US for so long. :-) > > I venture that the problem with the Soviet economy was not simply a > matter of inefficiency. It may have had something to do with a small > cadre of power-hungry, greedy bastards who manipulated the system > for their benefit. Actually, they didn't live rich, compared to a US millionaire at the time. The GDP of the Soviet Union went backwards during it's last 10 years or so.. Interviews after the war indicated that many in the upper echelons of the Communist party still believed in their ideals. Or, take East and West Germany for comparison examples. North and South Korea also do well. Or how about Japanthey have much stronger relationships between the government and business than the US, yet their standard of living is far better than the USSR was. Central planned economies have done far worse than economies where markets exist, set prices, etc. In a central planned economy being politically correct is critical; efficiency is less critical. Dan M. ___ http://www.mccmedia.com/mailman/listinfo/brin-l
Re: My annual Xmas tirade... Was RE: An armed society ...
On Dec 20, 2005, at 8:57 PM, Dan Minette wrote: From: "The Fool" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> Ineffiencies *are* the economy. Perfect efficiencies would lead to 0% employment and complete economic collapse. Ah, so that explains why the economy of the Soviet Union outperformed the US for so long. :-) I venture that the problem with the Soviet economy was not simply a matter of inefficiency. It may have had something to do with a small cadre of power-hungry, greedy bastards who manipulated the system for their benefit. Sound familiar? History doesn't repeat itself, but it rhymes. Dave ___ http://www.mccmedia.com/mailman/listinfo/brin-l
Re: My annual Xmas tirade... Was RE: An armed society ...
William T Goodall wrote: >Max Battcher wrote: >> Last time I saw anything: 75-80% total, 50% or less of the Server >> market, 50% or less of the "nerd" market. >Whatever the peak was it's certainly in decline now. Yeah, Gates is letting his guard slip with all that sissy-ass philanthropy Bono's got him involved in. He's *clearly* lost his evil overlord his edge. :) Jim ___ Join Excite! - http://www.excite.com The most personalized portal on the Web! ___ http://www.mccmedia.com/mailman/listinfo/brin-l
Re: My annual Xmas tirade... Was RE: An armed society ...
On 21 Dec 2005, at 8:28 am, Max Battcher wrote: I play Microsoft's advocate from time to time, because as evil as people think they are they are more often just misunderstood, IMNSHO. However evil people think Microsoft is it is actually more evil than that :) People seem to anthropomorphized Microsoft into the demi-God of computer problems. Dan Minette wrote: What percentage of the operating systems business does Microsoft have? Isn't it close to 95%? Last time I saw anything: 75-80% total, 50% or less of the Server market, 50% or less of the "nerd" market. Whatever the peak was it's certainly in decline now. Quick question: how many OSes would you like to know how to use every day? Microsoft gives away features that are the main source of income for other companies (i.e. Microsoft Explorer vs. Netscape). This is much more of a Vertical Monopoly problem than a Monopoly problem. Our Anti-Trust Laws do not affect Vertical Monopolies, otherwise Sony, Viacom, Times Warner and others should be facing court battles. Every feature that Microsoft has "given away" for free has been things that should be included in an Operating System. Do you want to be *required* to pay a third party to listen to music? Do you want to be *required* to pay a third party to use something as integral to the network experience as a web browser? Do you want to be *required* to pay a third party to use something as integral to the health of your PC as an anti-virus program? Microsoft does it and over-rich third parties whine about Monopolistic tendencies. Apple does it (iTunes, iPhoto, i*, Final Cut *, ...) and people hail it as the second coming! Linux does it every day, and has done it since the beginning... Why is Microsoft the exception to the rule? Because Microsoft was found guilty in a court of law of abusing its monopoly and is therefore subject to different rules (as a convicted monopoly abuser) than Apple or Linux (which are not convicted monopoly abusers) as part of the mandated remedy for that abuse. That's why. Just like someone on probation isn't allowed to do all the same things as their neighbour who isn't on probation. -- William T Goodall Mail : [EMAIL PROTECTED] Web : http://www.wtgab.demon.co.uk Blog : http://radio.weblogs.com/0111221/ A computer without a Microsoft operating system is like a dog without bricks tied to its head. ___ http://www.mccmedia.com/mailman/listinfo/brin-l
Re: My annual Xmas tirade... Was RE: An armed society ...
I play Microsoft's advocate from time to time, because as evil as people think they are they are more often just misunderstood, IMNSHO. People seem to anthropomorphized Microsoft into the demi-God of computer problems. Dan Minette wrote: > What percentage of the operating systems business does Microsoft have? > Isn't it close to 95%? Last time I saw anything: 75-80% total, 50% or less of the Server market, 50% or less of the "nerd" market. Quick question: how many OSes would you like to know how to use every day? > Microsoft gives away features that are the main source of income for other > companies (i.e. Microsoft Explorer vs. Netscape). This is much more of a Vertical Monopoly problem than a Monopoly problem. Our Anti-Trust Laws do not affect Vertical Monopolies, otherwise Sony, Viacom, Times Warner and others should be facing court battles. Every feature that Microsoft has "given away" for free has been things that should be included in an Operating System. Do you want to be *required* to pay a third party to listen to music? Do you want to be *required* to pay a third party to use something as integral to the network experience as a web browser? Do you want to be *required* to pay a third party to use something as integral to the health of your PC as an anti-virus program? Microsoft does it and over-rich third parties whine about Monopolistic tendencies. Apple does it (iTunes, iPhoto, i*, Final Cut *, ...) and people hail it as the second coming! Linux does it every day, and has done it since the beginning... Why is Microsoft the exception to the rule? > I cannot think of a > comparable action by Wal-Mart. Price Gouging; Unfair Trade Agreements; Service Bundling; All-In-One-Stop-Shopping. There's an entire documentary on some of this if you care, but again, these are all Vertical Monopoly problems coming from the fact that Wal-Mart sells everything and "owns" quite a bit of the production systems as well. > If I own a PC computer (not including > Apples, which I'd label , it's hard to get away from Microsoft. If I want > to buy most retail items, I can and do go to Target. Depends on your definition of hard. You can install Linux on your PC pretty "easily" nowadays, and you can try before you "buy" (spend the time installing) with very easy Live CDs (ask your neighborhood geek for a good Live CD, or order the Ubuntu CDs, which has an included Live CD to help you decide to install Ubuntu). Sure, there's a learning curve, but have you ever had two VCRs that used the exact same menu system? An Operating System is like a Gaggle of VCRs, in that respect. That's a tough cookie to crack and one of the reasons business and individuals have standardized on one (Windows); whether they like it or not they can use it where ever they come to it.Imagine the mess we'd have if there weren't a standard OS on most PCs. How many OSes do you think you can learn and keep fresh on day to day? In this case, the fact that there is a Monopoly is not from evilness on Microsoft's part, but from request/need of the market itself. Before Computers that was unprecedented in Capitalist markets (which goes to show how Computer software may in fact be a Socialist organism). People need to start realizing that the blame for Microsoft's profluence is partly their own. (The only real solution to the "Microsoft Problem" would be to institutionalize/nationalize the Operating System. Some States and Countries are already working on this, in fact, at least for government work.) -- --Max Battcher-- http://www.worldmaker.net/ All progress is based upon a universal innate desire on the part of every organism to live beyond its income. --Samuel Butler ___ http://www.mccmedia.com/mailman/listinfo/brin-l
Re: My annual Xmas tirade... Was RE: An armed society ...
- Original Message - From: "Dan Minette" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> To: "Killer Bs Discussion" Sent: Tuesday, December 20, 2005 11:53 PM Subject: Re: My annual Xmas tirade... Was RE: An armed society ... > > >> But I think a comparison of Wal-Mart and Microsoft with regard to >> their business practices, why people dislike them, and why one and >> not >> the other has spent time in court over business practices would be >> edifying. I assume there are more similarities than one might >> expect >> at first glance. > > What percentage of the operating systems business does Microsoft > have? > Isn't it close to 95%? What percentage of the retail business does > Wal-Mart have? Less than 9% according to Wilkipedia...which can > stand > correction if you have a better source. Still, I know it's not near > 50%. > > Microsoft gives away features that are the main source of income for > other > companies (i.e. Microsoft Explorer vs. Netscape). I cannot think of > a > comparable action by Wal-Mart. If I own a PC computer (not > including > Apples, which I'd label , it's hard to get away from Microsoft. If > I want > to buy most retail items, I can and do go to Target. > > Were you thinking of another comparison? > Oh certainly! You correctly point at the obvious differences, but I was thinking more along the lines of the strongarm tactics that come with having a dominant market position, dictating pricing to vendors and customers etc xponent Legends Maru rob ___ http://www.mccmedia.com/mailman/listinfo/brin-l
Re: My annual Xmas tirade... Was RE: An armed society ...
> But I think a comparison of Wal-Mart and Microsoft with regard to > their business practices, why people dislike them, and why one and not > the other has spent time in court over business practices would be > edifying. I assume there are more similarities than one might expect > at first glance. What percentage of the operating systems business does Microsoft have? Isn't it close to 95%? What percentage of the retail business does Wal-Mart have? Less than 9% according to Wilkipedia...which can stand correction if you have a better source. Still, I know it's not near 50%. Microsoft gives away features that are the main source of income for other companies (i.e. Microsoft Explorer vs. Netscape). I cannot think of a comparable action by Wal-Mart. If I own a PC computer (not including Apples, which I'd label , it's hard to get away from Microsoft. If I want to buy most retail items, I can and do go to Target. Were you thinking of another comparison? Dan M. ___ http://www.mccmedia.com/mailman/listinfo/brin-l
Re: My annual Xmas tirade... Was RE: An armed society ...
- Original Message - From: "The Fool" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> To: "Killer Bs Discussion" Sent: Tuesday, December 20, 2005 9:52 PM Subject: Re: My annual Xmas tirade... Was RE: An armed society ... > Ineffiencies *are* the economy. Perfect efficiencies would lead to 0% > employment and complete economic collapse. Ah, so that explains why the economy of the Soviet Union outperformed the US for so long. :-) Dan M. ___ http://www.mccmedia.com/mailman/listinfo/brin-l
Re: My annual Xmas tirade... Was RE: An armed society ...
> From: Robert Seeberger <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> > From: "Dan Minette" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> > > > > > From: "Dave Land" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> > > > >> On Dec 4, 2005, at 11:16 AM, Gary Nunn wrote: > >> > >> > Driving to work, at 5:00 am that morning was a REAL eye-opener. > >> > I was > >> > astounded at the number of people at the Super Wal-Mart. I made > >> > the > >> > mistake > >> > of stopping there to pick up donuts on the way to work > >> > >> OK, I'm home sick from work today, and in my few minutes of > >> consciousness, I really should be doing something productive, but I > >> have to chime in and say, "Gary, you're *CONTRIBUTING* to the > >> problem > >> just by shopping at Wal-Mart!" > > > >> Wal-Mart is the corporate equivalent of those rude shoppers. It > >> shoves ahead in line, it doesn't care whose toes it steps on to get > >> the best deal, it honks its horn and gives the finger to other > >> businesses, and it treats its employees like crap. > > > > About a quarter of the increase in productivity in the United States > > was > > attributable to Wal-Mart. Productivity gains are independent of the > > pay or > > benefits received by employees, so one cannot argue that's the > > source. > > > > Going to the local Wal-Mart, and going to the local mall, one can > > easily > > see the difference in the average economic status of people who shop > > at > > each place. Since my kids were looking at jobs at the mall, I can > > say that > > the benefits and wages there were not better than Wal Mart. > > > > So, I'm not sure why Wal-Mart is singled out as evil. Is there some > > reason > > that inefficiency is inherently moral? > > > > Wrong question Dan. > Efficiency has nothing to do with peoples dislike of Wal-Mart. > But I think a comparison of Wal-Mart and Microsoft with regard to > their business practices, why people dislike them, and why one and not > the other has spent time in court over business practices would be > edifying. I assume there are more similarities than one might expect > at first glance. Yes. One of those companies is sued an average of 1700+ times a day every day, and one isn't. Ineffiencies *are* the economy. Perfect efficiencies would lead to 0% employment and complete economic collapse. ___ http://www.mccmedia.com/mailman/listinfo/brin-l
Re: My annual Xmas tirade... Was RE: An armed society ...
- Original Message - From: "Dan Minette" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> To: "Killer Bs Discussion" Sent: Tuesday, December 20, 2005 4:56 PM Subject: Re: My annual Xmas tirade... Was RE: An armed society ... > > - Original Message - > From: "Dave Land" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> > To: "Killer Bs Discussion" > Sent: Monday, December 05, 2005 6:35 PM > Subject: Re: My annual Xmas tirade... Was RE: An armed society ... > > >> On Dec 4, 2005, at 11:16 AM, Gary Nunn wrote: >> >> > Driving to work, at 5:00 am that morning was a REAL eye-opener. >> > I was >> > astounded at the number of people at the Super Wal-Mart. I made >> > the >> > mistake >> > of stopping there to pick up donuts on the way to work >> >> OK, I'm home sick from work today, and in my few minutes of >> consciousness, I really should be doing something productive, but I >> have to chime in and say, "Gary, you're *CONTRIBUTING* to the >> problem >> just by shopping at Wal-Mart!" > >> Wal-Mart is the corporate equivalent of those rude shoppers. It >> shoves ahead in line, it doesn't care whose toes it steps on to get >> the best deal, it honks its horn and gives the finger to other >> businesses, and it treats its employees like crap. > > About a quarter of the increase in productivity in the United States > was > attributable to Wal-Mart. Productivity gains are independent of the > pay or > benefits received by employees, so one cannot argue that's the > source. > > Going to the local Wal-Mart, and going to the local mall, one can > easily > see the difference in the average economic status of people who shop > at > each place. Since my kids were looking at jobs at the mall, I can > say that > the benefits and wages there were not better than Wal Mart. > > So, I'm not sure why Wal-Mart is singled out as evil. Is there some > reason > that inefficiency is inherently moral? > Wrong question Dan. Efficiency has nothing to do with peoples dislike of Wal-Mart. But I think a comparison of Wal-Mart and Microsoft with regard to their business practices, why people dislike them, and why one and not the other has spent time in court over business practices would be edifying. I assume there are more similarities than one might expect at first glance. xponent Mom And Pop Maru rob ___ http://www.mccmedia.com/mailman/listinfo/brin-l
Re: My annual Xmas tirade... Was RE: An armed society ...
- Original Message - From: "Dave Land" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> To: "Killer Bs Discussion" Sent: Monday, December 05, 2005 6:35 PM Subject: Re: My annual Xmas tirade... Was RE: An armed society ... > On Dec 4, 2005, at 11:16 AM, Gary Nunn wrote: > > > Driving to work, at 5:00 am that morning was a REAL eye-opener. I was > > astounded at the number of people at the Super Wal-Mart. I made the > > mistake > > of stopping there to pick up donuts on the way to work > > OK, I'm home sick from work today, and in my few minutes of > consciousness, I really should be doing something productive, but I > have to chime in and say, "Gary, you're *CONTRIBUTING* to the problem > just by shopping at Wal-Mart!" > Wal-Mart is the corporate equivalent of those rude shoppers. It > shoves ahead in line, it doesn't care whose toes it steps on to get > the best deal, it honks its horn and gives the finger to other > businesses, and it treats its employees like crap. About a quarter of the increase in productivity in the United States was attributable to Wal-Mart. Productivity gains are independent of the pay or benefits received by employees, so one cannot argue that's the source. Going to the local Wal-Mart, and going to the local mall, one can easily see the difference in the average economic status of people who shop at each place. Since my kids were looking at jobs at the mall, I can say that the benefits and wages there were not better than Wal Mart. So, I'm not sure why Wal-Mart is singled out as evil. Is there some reason that inefficiency is inherently moral? Dan M. ___ http://www.mccmedia.com/mailman/listinfo/brin-l
Re: My annual Xmas tirade... Was RE: An armed society ...
At 06:35 PM Monday 12/5/2005, Dave Land wrote: On Dec 4, 2005, at 11:16 AM, Gary Nunn wrote: Driving to work, at 5:00 am that morning was a REAL eye-opener. I was astounded at the number of people at the Super Wal-Mart. I made the mistake of stopping there to pick up donuts on the way to work OK, I'm home sick from work today, and in my few minutes of consciousness, I really should be doing something productive, but I have to chime in and say, "Gary, you're *CONTRIBUTING* to the problem just by shopping at Wal-Mart!" Wal-Mart is the corporate equivalent of those rude shoppers. It shoves ahead in line, it doesn't care whose toes it steps on to get the best deal, it honks its horn and gives the finger to other businesses, and it treats its employees like crap. Unless all the other sources of donuts in your entire metropolitan area have been run out of business by Wal-Mart (which is no small consideration), may I suggest that you to buy them elsewhere? Your own PS shows the wisdom of shopping elsewhere. Merry Christmas, Dave PS: Much as I want to, I cannot say that I have never set foot inside a Wal-Mart. Once, in San Diego, I went into one to extract my wife and child who, ignoring my protests, went in to some kind of super ultra mega Wal-Mart monstrosity to buy a pair of sunglasses. As if there weren't 10,000 other places to buy sunglasses. If it is the practice of opening in the wee small hours of the morning of the Friday after Thanksgiving to sell a limited number of a particular hot toy which TV and such have programmed the children of the shoppers to believe that they will not have any friends if they fail to get that particular toy for Christmas and so the parents have been duly warned that if they are not among the first in line when the doors open before dawn that they will not get one of that particular toy for their children is what you object to, then you will have to avoid shopping at many more stores than just Wal-Mart. And as I mentioned earlier, you will have to boycott both the local and national evening news and the newspapers, as the lead story on all of them on Thanksgiving and throughout the following weekend is the early-Friday-morning shopping frenzy and whether or not retailers are satisfied with the results (they never are . . . ) 'Tis The Season Maru --Ronn! :) "Since I was a small boy, two states have been added to our country and two words have been added to the pledge of Allegiance... UNDER GOD. Wouldn't it be a pity if someone said that is a prayer and that would be eliminated from schools too?" -- Red Skelton ___ http://www.mccmedia.com/mailman/listinfo/brin-l
Re: My annual Xmas tirade... Was RE: An armed society ...
Dave Land wrote: PS: Much as I want to, I cannot say that I have never set foot inside a Wal-Mart. Once, in San Diego, I went into one to extract my wife and child who, ignoring my protests, went in to some kind of super ultra mega Wal-Mart monstrosity to buy a pair of sunglasses. I've never spent money in one, but I have been in one, just to show my son the uniquely American sight of a sports department that has the bullets beside the baseballs and the guns with the golf clubs. It's one of his favourite stories, though most Australians he tells it to assume he means they were in the same building, not in the same square metre... Cheers Russell C. PS Does that circle this thread back to the armed society one again? --- This email (including any attachments) is confidential and copyright. The School makes no warranty about the content of this email. Unless expressly stated, this email does not bind the School and does not necessarily constitute the opinion of the School. If you have received this email in error, please delete it and notify the sender. --- <<<>>> ___ http://www.mccmedia.com/mailman/listinfo/brin-l
Re: My annual Xmas tirade... Was RE: An armed society ...
On Dec 4, 2005, at 11:16 AM, Gary Nunn wrote: Driving to work, at 5:00 am that morning was a REAL eye-opener. I was astounded at the number of people at the Super Wal-Mart. I made the mistake of stopping there to pick up donuts on the way to work OK, I'm home sick from work today, and in my few minutes of consciousness, I really should be doing something productive, but I have to chime in and say, "Gary, you're *CONTRIBUTING* to the problem just by shopping at Wal-Mart!" Wal-Mart is the corporate equivalent of those rude shoppers. It shoves ahead in line, it doesn't care whose toes it steps on to get the best deal, it honks its horn and gives the finger to other businesses, and it treats its employees like crap. Unless all the other sources of donuts in your entire metropolitan area have been run out of business by Wal-Mart (which is no small consideration), may I suggest that you to buy them elsewhere? Your own PS shows the wisdom of shopping elsewhere. Merry Christmas, Dave PS: Much as I want to, I cannot say that I have never set foot inside a Wal-Mart. Once, in San Diego, I went into one to extract my wife and child who, ignoring my protests, went in to some kind of super ultra mega Wal-Mart monstrosity to buy a pair of sunglasses. As if there weren't 10,000 other places to buy sunglasses. ___ http://www.mccmedia.com/mailman/listinfo/brin-l
Re: My annual Xmas tirade... Was RE: An armed society ...
> From: Robert Seeberger <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> > > From: "Ronn!Blankenship" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> > > > I dated a girl who wanted me to pick anything I wanted for "our > > song." For some reason, she seemed disappointed when I chose the > > "hokey Pokey" . . . > > > Ronn!?..Have you been drinking the distillate of pure evil again? > How many times do we have to tell > you... I fail to see what country music has to do with it?... ___ http://www.mccmedia.com/mailman/listinfo/brin-l
Re: My annual Xmas tirade... Was RE: An armed society ...
- Original Message - From: "Ronn!Blankenship" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> To: "Killer Bs Discussion" Sent: Monday, December 05, 2005 1:18 AM Subject: Re: My annual Xmas tirade... Was RE: An armed society ... > I dated a girl who wanted me to pick anything I wanted for "our > song." For some reason, she seemed disappointed when I chose the > "hokey Pokey" . . . Ronn!?..Have you been drinking the distillate of pure evil again? How many times do we have to tell you... xponent Nanny And The Professor Maru rob ___ http://www.mccmedia.com/mailman/listinfo/brin-l
Re: My annual Xmas tirade... Was RE: An armed society ...
On 12/4/05, Ronn!Blankenship <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > > Several years ago when "Tickle Me Elmo" was the hot, > impossible-to-find item, I responded by getting one of the little > 5-inch-or-so-high Elmos, tying a noose around its neck, and hanging > it from the post my mailbox is attached to with a sign that said > "TICKLE THIS!" pinned to its chest as part of my holiday decorations > . . . (I suppose it may still be in a bag somewhere with other > decorations where I put them after taking them down.) > > (Haven't figured out a way to do anything similar with an Xbox . . . > at least not for a financial outlay comparable to that of the > miniature Elmo . . .) Perhaps a used or even broken XBox controller hanging from a noose? Visibly broken might even be best, considering the point you are trying to make. Mauro ___ http://www.mccmedia.com/mailman/listinfo/brin-l
Re: My annual Xmas tirade... Was RE: An armed society ...
At 11:54 PM Sunday 12/4/2005, Julia Thompson wrote: Ronn!Blankenship wrote: At 01:16 PM Sunday 12/4/2005, Gary Nunn wrote: What are these people thinking when they bring young children to shop for others and then are mean and nasty to the kids because they naturally want toys that they see? Maybe they could not find a baby sitter (perhaps 'cuz everyone else they could call also wanted to be at Wal-Mart at 0500) and so had to bring the kids with them. Hm. My kids' daddy doesn't WANT to be at Wal-Mart on that day. (Neither do I, come to think of it.) So if I really want to be at Wal-Mart the minute it opens, gee, I can leave the kids at home with him. Are some of these parents divorced? Or possibly never married in the first place. (Also, who gets a kid up that early anyway? You don't want to ENCOURAGE them to be up at 4AM!) Naturally, my daughter wants one of the special edition Nintendo DS games, but there was NO WAY that I was going to join the feeding frenzy and act like an idiot. My son's mom (my daughter and son have different moms) , who makes sure her kids always have the latest and greatest, paid almost twice the price by buying the game and cartridge separately. She paid over $100 for the game cartridge on eBay. The game itself was a limited edition color and the cartridge was only available in the "Special Limited Edition" bundle, and was being sold on eBay by people who bought the game, but didn't want the cartridge. Saying that I am astounded would be an understatement. Several years ago when "Tickle Me Elmo" was the hot, impossible-to-find item, I responded by getting one of the little 5-inch-or-so-high Elmos, tying a noose around its neck, and hanging it from the post my mailbox is attached to with a sign that said "TICKLE THIS!" pinned to its chest as part of my holiday decorations . . . (I suppose it may still be in a bag somewhere with other decorations where I put them after taking them down.) Heh. I sold a used one for $5 a couple of months ago. (Elmo gets annoying after awhile. About .001 seconds, if it makes noise and you are over a certain age . . . They've managed to break the "Hokey Pokey Elmo". Unfortunately, what broke wasn't the part that controls the singing.) I dated a girl who wanted me to pick anything I wanted for "our song." For some reason, she seemed disappointed when I chose the "hokey Pokey" . . . (Haven't figured out a way to do anything similar with an Xbox . . . at least not for a financial outlay comparable to that of the miniature Elmo . . .) If you had the use of one for an afternoon, to take measurements, you could probably make a decent mock-up out of cardboard, masking tape and paint, couldn't you? Assuming I had nothing else to do . . . --Ronn! :) "Since I was a small boy, two states have been added to our country and two words have been added to the pledge of Allegiance... UNDER GOD. Wouldn't it be a pity if someone said that is a prayer and that would be eliminated from schools too?" -- Red Skelton ___ http://www.mccmedia.com/mailman/listinfo/brin-l
Re: My annual Xmas tirade... Was RE: An armed society ...
Ronn!Blankenship wrote: At 01:16 PM Sunday 12/4/2005, Gary Nunn wrote: What are these people thinking when they bring young children to shop for others and then are mean and nasty to the kids because they naturally want toys that they see? Maybe they could not find a baby sitter (perhaps 'cuz everyone else they could call also wanted to be at Wal-Mart at 0500) and so had to bring the kids with them. Hm. My kids' daddy doesn't WANT to be at Wal-Mart on that day. (Neither do I, come to think of it.) So if I really want to be at Wal-Mart the minute it opens, gee, I can leave the kids at home with him. Are some of these parents divorced? (Also, who gets a kid up that early anyway? You don't want to ENCOURAGE them to be up at 4AM!) Naturally, my daughter wants one of the special edition Nintendo DS games, but there was NO WAY that I was going to join the feeding frenzy and act like an idiot. My son's mom (my daughter and son have different moms) , who makes sure her kids always have the latest and greatest, paid almost twice the price by buying the game and cartridge separately. She paid over $100 for the game cartridge on eBay. The game itself was a limited edition color and the cartridge was only available in the "Special Limited Edition" bundle, and was being sold on eBay by people who bought the game, but didn't want the cartridge. Saying that I am astounded would be an understatement. Several years ago when "Tickle Me Elmo" was the hot, impossible-to-find item, I responded by getting one of the little 5-inch-or-so-high Elmos, tying a noose around its neck, and hanging it from the post my mailbox is attached to with a sign that said "TICKLE THIS!" pinned to its chest as part of my holiday decorations . . . (I suppose it may still be in a bag somewhere with other decorations where I put them after taking them down.) Heh. I sold a used one for $5 a couple of months ago. (Elmo gets annoying after awhile. They've managed to break the "Hokey Pokey Elmo". Unfortunately, what broke wasn't the part that controls the singing.) (Haven't figured out a way to do anything similar with an Xbox . . . at least not for a financial outlay comparable to that of the miniature Elmo . . .) If you had the use of one for an afternoon, to take measurements, you could probably make a decent mock-up out of cardboard, masking tape and paint, couldn't you? Julia ___ http://www.mccmedia.com/mailman/listinfo/brin-l
Re: My annual Xmas tirade... Was RE: An armed society ...
At 01:16 PM Sunday 12/4/2005, Gary Nunn wrote: Mr. House Of Pain Maru wrote... >Wishes may never become fishes, and unfortunate as it may be, >people most often are not polite unless there is some >overriding reason to be polite. Rob's wisdom is a great segue into my Annual Christmas Rant. For the first time in my work career, I had to work the Friday after Thanksgiving. That in itself wasn't a big deal as I had volunteered to work it so some of my co-workers could go out of town for Thanksgiving. Driving to work, at 5:00 am that morning was a REAL eye-opener. I was astounded at the number of people at the Super Wal-Mart. I made the mistake of stopping there to pick up donuts on the way to work, and I was left speechless at just how rude and inconsiderate people were. I'm not just talking about one or two people, I'm talking about a majority of people. People were impatient and rude in the parking lot. Quick to cut someone off just to save a few steps and get 3 or 4 parking spaces closer. They were quick to honk their horns over and over if you didn't move the microsecond the light turned green, and of course they were quick to scream out the window or give the "one finger salute" - most had kids in the car. In the store, grown adults, were shoving and being rude in the toy department and especially electronics, because they just had to get that certain, popular toy. Others, amazingly, brought kids with them to shop and were screaming at them, to "shut up" and "no you can't have any toys". What are these people thinking when they bring young children to shop for others and then are mean and nasty to the kids because they naturally want toys that they see? Maybe they could not find a baby sitter (perhaps 'cuz everyone else they could call also wanted to be at Wal-Mart at 0500) and so had to bring the kids with them. The REALLY popular item around here this year is the Nintendo DS Nintendogs Best Friends edition. It was made it VERY limited quantities and advertised like your would not believe, and I saw two grown adults, arguing and screaming at the unfortunate teenage Wal-Mart employee, about who saw the very last one, first. Think about those poor employees, having to get up in time to have the store open at 0500 (or 0100, as some of the stores around here have done in the past) on what for many is a "long holiday weekend." But then for several years now stores like K-Mart and others have been open on Thanksgiving Day and running special sales that were only good that day. (Maybe that is their attempt to get a jump on Wal-Mart, which locally at least is closed on Thanksgiving Day itself.) Naturally, my daughter wants one of the special edition Nintendo DS games, but there was NO WAY that I was going to join the feeding frenzy and act like an idiot. My son's mom (my daughter and son have different moms) , who makes sure her kids always have the latest and greatest, paid almost twice the price by buying the game and cartridge separately. She paid over $100 for the game cartridge on eBay. The game itself was a limited edition color and the cartridge was only available in the "Special Limited Edition" bundle, and was being sold on eBay by people who bought the game, but didn't want the cartridge. Saying that I am astounded would be an understatement. Several years ago when "Tickle Me Elmo" was the hot, impossible-to-find item, I responded by getting one of the little 5-inch-or-so-high Elmos, tying a noose around its neck, and hanging it from the post my mailbox is attached to with a sign that said "TICKLE THIS!" pinned to its chest as part of my holiday decorations . . . (I suppose it may still be in a bag somewhere with other decorations where I put them after taking them down.) (Haven't figured out a way to do anything similar with an Xbox . . . at least not for a financial outlay comparable to that of the miniature Elmo . . .) What's the point, if everyone is going to be rude and nasty? Perhaps I had a sheltered life, but growing up in the 70's, I NEVER remember anyone being rude, like I have seen in the last few years. Even now, when I go to a store now, I see the same things, maybe not as intense as the day after Thanksgiving, but still nasty and rude. So what is the cause? Why the change? Is it because people don't have patience any more? Is it because manufactures create an artificial shortage of popular products to sell other products when the "Limited Editions" sell out? IMO, that (your last sentence) is a big part of it. Also, notice how much free advertising the national and local news on Thanksgiving and the following days give to those sales and their results. Me, I stay away from all the stores on "Black Friday" in protest. Of course, I don't have little ones who have been programmed by TV and their peers to demand that hot, impossible-to-find item, either . . . It seems to be getting worse every year. >climbing off
Re: My annual Xmas tirade... Was RE: An armed society ...
Reading Gary's rant, and Jim's reply, offers quite a bit of food for thought for me. By this time next month (if all goes according to plan) I should be the proud father of a brand new baby girl. The rampant consumerism of Christmas (I think I would've enjoyed Christmas much more as it used to be...not a religious holiday per se, but as an excuse to drink...curses to the Puritans!) is something I never really had to deal with before, but it may come-to-pass now. How will I react to my little girl needing that thing "she just must have?" I would like to think I would handle it in a way that was educational for her, to help her build ethics, but who knows? I think in a culture such as ours, one of relative wealth and affluence, materialism is a natural outgrowth. Jim's point about working class families is a good one, and I'd bet in very poor areas the contrast is even more stark. I also think people live increasingly busy lives these days, in an attempt to satisfy their own ambitions, and to fill every waking moment of their kids' lives with activities (what ever happened to giving them a piece of paper and a box of crayons? Or kicking them and their friends out into the back yard during the summer? Not an option in some areas, but definitely in mine...). This year on Black Friday, I went over to my friends' houses for an all-day orgy of gaming...from 10am to 12 midnight it was nothing but Settlers of Catan, a new game called (IIRC) Dungeoneer, and of course D&D (which included my one friend's son). I felt that was time better spent than sitting in the Wal-mart parking lot at 5am, any time... Damon. Damon Agretto [EMAIL PROTECTED] "Qui desiderat pacem, praeparet bellum." http://www.geocities.com/garrand.geo/index.html Now Building: Bandai's Pz.H auf GWII (105mm) "Wespe" -- No virus found in this outgoing message. Checked by AVG Anti-Virus. Version: 7.1.362 / Virus Database: 267.13.11/191 - Release Date: 12/2/2005 ___ http://www.mccmedia.com/mailman/listinfo/brin-l
