Re: Oops, Clinton Just Lied Again....
From: John D. Giorgis [EMAIL PROTECTED] From: Miller, Jeffrey [EMAIL PROTECTED] I think there's a critical difference, however. What Clinton did hadlittle to no impact on how he performed in office, while Bush's action are having a daily-felt impact on people all over the world. Reason #13 why Republicans hate Clinton - to this day, some partisans still insist that compulsive lying and perjury just don't matter. To this day some partisans still insist that treason and 29 criminal convictions (all of them pardoned by daddy), just don't matter. ___ http://www.mccmedia.com/mailman/listinfo/brin-l
Re: Conspiracy redux (was RE: Oops, Clinton Just Lied Again....)
--- In [EMAIL PROTECTED], Nick Arnett [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Did it appear in SI? Your link pointed to Scaife's paper, and since I knew that John Steigerwald is a Pittsburgher, I assumed that the story originated there (like so much other Clinton-bashing). Yes, the article noted (if you bothered to read it), that the quote appears in this week's issue of Sports Illustrated. Personally, I agree with Mr. Steigerwald that Clinton's quote is so obviously false as to not require follow-up but I suppose that some well-worn Clinton defender will try and verify it I'll keep my eyes open. (BTW - This latest lie has apparently not yet hit the national right- wing mainstream media the article only came to my attention as part of my daily digest of Buffalo Bills news, since it discusses a Bills item at the bottom...) JDG ___ http://www.mccmedia.com/mailman/listinfo/brin-l
RE: Conspiracy redux (was RE: Oops, Clinton Just Lied Again....)
-Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Behalf Of iaamoac Sent: Tuesday, March 25, 2003 5:47 AM To: Killer Bs Discussion Subject: Re: Conspiracy redux (was RE: Oops, Clinton Just Lied Again) --- In [EMAIL PROTECTED], Nick Arnett [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Did it appear in SI? Your link pointed to Scaife's paper, and since I knew that John Steigerwald is a Pittsburgher, I assumed that the story originated there (like so much other Clinton-bashing). Yes, the article noted (if you bothered to read it), that the quote appears in this week's issue of Sports Illustrated. If I hadn't read it, I wouldn't know who wrote it or where it appeared! It just didn't stick that Steigerwald was quoting SI as the of the quote. Nonetheless, my comments stand. The Tribune-Review put its own 'special' spin on it, which is what I was commenting about. SI is the source of the quote; Scaife's rag is the source of the Clinton-bashing. (BTW - This latest lie has apparently not yet hit the national right- wing mainstream media the article only came to my attention as part of my daily digest of Buffalo Bills news, since it discusses a Bills item at the bottom...) Is it possible that nobody really cares? I sure don't, but I do care to see that people know who and what is behind the reporting. Nick ___ http://www.mccmedia.com/mailman/listinfo/brin-l
Re: Conspiracy redux (was RE: Oops, Clinton Just Lied Again....)
From: iaamoac [EMAIL PROTECTED] Reply-To: Killer Bs Discussion [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: Killer Bs Discussion [EMAIL PROTECTED] Subject: Re: Conspiracy redux (was RE: Oops, Clinton Just Lied Again) Date: Tue, 25 Mar 2003 13:46:33 - --- In [EMAIL PROTECTED], Nick Arnett [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Did it appear in SI? Your link pointed to Scaife's paper, and since I knew that John Steigerwald is a Pittsburgher, I assumed that the story originated there (like so much other Clinton-bashing). Yes, the article noted (if you bothered to read it), that the quote appears in this week's issue of Sports Illustrated. Personally, I agree with Mr. Steigerwald that Clinton's quote is so obviously false as to not require follow-up but I suppose that some well-worn Clinton defender will try and verify it I'll keep my eyes open. (BTW - This latest lie has apparently not yet hit the national right- wing mainstream media the article only came to my attention as part of my daily digest of Buffalo Bills news, since it discusses a Bills item at the bottom...) Perhaps with a war on they have more important things to cover? Attacking a former President about something he did or didn't do during High School seems incredibly trivial when they could be reporting on the war or American POW's. Then again, I feel the same way about Oscar coverage. :) Jon _ STOP MORE SPAM with the new MSN 8 and get 2 months FREE* http://join.msn.com/?page=features/junkmail ___ http://www.mccmedia.com/mailman/listinfo/brin-l
RE: Oops, Clinton Just Lied Again....
On 25 Mar 2003 at 7:48, Ronn!Blankenship wrote: At 02:09 PM 3/24/03 -0600, Reggie Bautista wrote: John Horn wrote: Boy, Republicans *really* hate that man... Ronn! replied: ...about as much as some now hate Bush -- and everything he stands for, and everything he does, just because _he_ stands for/does it? I support the war, but I don't support Bush in general. Hate is probably too strong a word; let's go with strongly dislike :-) But I understand where you are coming from. I have some family members who are anti-war for one reason and one reason only, and that is because they are anti-Bush. It may be a selection effect, but most of the people who I have heard from who are anti-war are, if asked, about equally anti-Bush. I don't think I have yet heard from anyone who is both pro-Bush and anti-war. *sticks his hand up* I'm on the other side of the pond mind you. Andy Dawn Falcon ___ http://www.mccmedia.com/mailman/listinfo/brin-l
RE: Conspiracy redux (was RE: Oops, Clinton Just Lied Again....)
At 07:17 AM 3/25/2003 -0800, you wrote: -Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Behalf Of iaamoac Sent: Tuesday, March 25, 2003 5:47 AM To: Killer Bs Discussion Subject: Re: Conspiracy redux (was RE: Oops, Clinton Just Lied Again) --- In [EMAIL PROTECTED], Nick Arnett [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Did it appear in SI? Your link pointed to Scaife's paper, and since I knew that John Steigerwald is a Pittsburgher, I assumed that the story originated there (like so much other Clinton-bashing). Yes, the article noted (if you bothered to read it), that the quote appears in this week's issue of Sports Illustrated. If I hadn't read it, I wouldn't know who wrote it or where it appeared! It just didn't stick that Steigerwald was quoting SI as the of the quote. Nonetheless, my comments stand. The Tribune-Review put its own 'special' spin on it, which is what I was commenting about. SI is the source of the quote; Scaife's rag is the source of the Clinton-bashing. (BTW - This latest lie has apparently not yet hit the national right- wing mainstream media the article only came to my attention as part of my daily digest of Buffalo Bills news, since it discusses a Bills item at the bottom...) Is it possible that nobody really cares? I sure don't, but I do care to see that people know who and what is behind the reporting. Nick Really? So that makes it what.three papers that attack Clinton and a few thousand that attack Bush? While we're at it, did Ford attack Carter after 1977? Did Reagan say anything about Carter after 1981? Did GHW Bush say things about Clinton after 1993 (other than when he was attacked first)? Yet it's Clinton bashing now when an article calls him on a bald-faced lie. Kevin T. - VRWC What is air? ___ http://www.mccmedia.com/mailman/listinfo/brin-l
Re: Conspiracy redux (was RE: Oops, Clinton Just Lied Again....)
At 04:36 PM 3/25/03 -0600, Julia Thompson wrote: Kevin Tarr wrote: Kevin T. - VRWC What is air? Off the top of my head, nitrogen, oxygen, Argon is third at about 0.94%, IIRC without looking it up. carbon dioxide, and some other stuff. Why? FWIW, hair keeps the air off the top of my head. -- Ronn! :) God bless America, Land that I love! Stand beside her, and guide her Thru the night with a light from above. From the mountains, to the prairies, To the oceans, white with foamÂ… God bless America! My home, sweet home. -- Irving Berlin (1888-1989) ___ http://www.mccmedia.com/mailman/listinfo/brin-l
RE: Oops, Clinton Just Lied Again....
At 16:46 23-03-03 -0600, John Horn wrote: ...in case you still didn't believe that Bill Clinton is and was a compulsive liar Give it a rest. He's not president anymore, remember? You won, OK? Your guy is in office. Boy, Republicans *really* hate that man... It's all plain jealousy, I tell ya. They're just jealous because the Democrats produce better presidents than the Republicans. Badmouthing Clinton is just their way of dealing with their jealousy. :-) Jeroen Political Observations van Baardwijk _ Wonderful-World-of-Brin-L Website: http://www.Brin-L.com ___ http://www.mccmedia.com/mailman/listinfo/brin-l
Re: RE: Oops, Clinton Just Lied Again....
---Original Message--- From: Miller, Jeffrey [EMAIL PROTECTED] I think there's a critical difference, however. What Clinton did hadlittle to no impact on how he performed in office, while Bush's action are having a daily-felt impact on people all over the world. Reason #13 why Republicans hate Clinton - to this day, some partisans still insist that compulsive lying and perjury just don't matter. JDG ___ http://www.mccmedia.com/mailman/listinfo/brin-l
Re: Oops, Clinton Just Lied Again....
--- In [EMAIL PROTECTED], Dan Minette [EMAIL PROTECTED] No, it just that it matters much more when it involves illegally selling arms to a country which has very recently held American diplomatic personnel hostage, then when it involves adultery. I must have missed the part where you changed the subject header, Dan I believe that we were talking about whether or not Clinton's *compulsive* lying mattered, not about events of the 1980's. Indeed, don't you find this kind of moral relativism a little distastefull when you stoop to this level? How do you respond to your children when they apply this same logic - deflecting attention from their own misdeeds by pointing out the faults of a sibling? And if you respond in that way, why do you suddenly endorse this line of thought here in serious discussion? Of course, if compulsive lying and perjury don't matter - how come it only bothers you when you think that Republicans are doing it, and not Democrats? Bill Clinton was questioned under the terms of the Violence Against Women Act, which he touted and signed into law with much fanfare. Instead of following his own law, however, he fought implementation of his law at every step, and then he committed perjury. I am sure he was just faithfully defending the laws and Constitution of the United States when he did that. Isn't there something very troubling to our republic when our leader arbitrarily holds that his own laws don't apply to himself? Fortuantely, we saw your partisan spots in the economics threat JDG ___ http://www.mccmedia.com/mailman/listinfo/brin-l
RE: RE: Oops, Clinton Just Lied Again....
-Original Message- From: John D. Giorgis [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Monday, March 24, 2003 03:17 AM To: Killer Bs Discussion Subject: Re: RE: Oops, Clinton Just Lied Again ---Original Message--- From: Miller, Jeffrey [EMAIL PROTECTED] I think there's a critical difference, however. What Clinton did hadlittle to no impact on how he performed in office, while Bush's action are having a daily-felt impact on people all over the world. Reason #13 why Republicans hate Clinton - to this day, some partisans still insist that compulsive lying and perjury just don't matter. I'm hardly a partisan - I'm center-left, but a registered Republican, but have long hair and an earring and painted fingernails, but I own stock, but I voted for Clinton and Gore... I've never heard you give an honest argument why lieing about a personal affair which damaged his own reputation is somehow worse than trompling on 50 years of diplomacy. -jeffrey who's partisan? miller- ___ http://www.mccmedia.com/mailman/listinfo/brin-l
RE: Oops, Clinton Just Lied Again....
John Horn wrote: Boy, Republicans *really* hate that man... Ronn! replied: ...about as much as some now hate Bush -- and everything he stands for, and everything he does, just because _he_ stands for/does it? I support the war, but I don't support Bush in general. Hate is probably too strong a word; let's go with strongly dislike :-) But I understand where you are coming from. I have some family members who are anti-war for one reason and one reason only, and that is because they are anti-Bush. Reggie Bautista _ Protect your PC - get McAfee.com VirusScan Online http://clinic.mcafee.com/clinic/ibuy/campaign.asp?cid=3963 ___ http://www.mccmedia.com/mailman/listinfo/brin-l
Re: Conspiracy redux (was RE: Oops, Clinton Just Lied Again....)
--- In [EMAIL PROTECTED], Nick Arnett [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: ...in case you still didn't believe that Bill Clinton is and was a compulsive liar, he now claims to have dunked a basketball in a high school basketball game. Oops, consider the source. Sports Illustrated? JDG ___ http://www.mccmedia.com/mailman/listinfo/brin-l
RE: Conspiracy redux (was RE: Oops, Clinton Just Lied Again....)
-Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Behalf Of iaamoac Sent: Monday, March 24, 2003 1:21 PM To: Killer Bs Discussion Subject: Re: Conspiracy redux (was RE: Oops, Clinton Just Lied Again) --- In [EMAIL PROTECTED], Nick Arnett [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: ...in case you still didn't believe that Bill Clinton is and was a compulsive liar, he now claims to have dunked a basketball in a high school basketball game. Oops, consider the source. Sports Illustrated? Did it appear in SI? Your link pointed to Scaife's paper, and since I knew that John Steigerwald is a Pittsburgher, I assumed that the story originated there (like so much other Clinton-bashing). Nick ___ http://www.mccmedia.com/mailman/listinfo/brin-l
RE: Conspiracy redux (was RE: Oops, Clinton Just Lied Again....)
Nick Arnett wrote: Did it appear in SI? Yep. It was an interesting article. Basically, Clinton the golfer seems like Clinton the President (a parallel the author draws as well). Possessed of an innate charm and talent, but far too willing to cut corners. And in it, Clinton asserts he did dunk, once, in a high school basketball game, on a breakaway where he had half the court to get a head of steam up. Maybe it's a fabrication, maybe it isn't. So what? The guy's not President anymore, so why does anyone care? Jim ___ Join Excite! - http://www.excite.com The most personalized portal on the Web! ___ http://www.mccmedia.com/mailman/listinfo/brin-l
Re: Oops, Clinton Just Lied Again....
--- iaamoac [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: snippage Of course, if compulsive lying and perjury don't matter - how come it only bothers you when you think that Republicans are doing it, and not Democrats?... scratches side of face in puzzlement Umm, I'm pretty sure that he at some point said he *voted* for Bush, or at least that was the impression I got, and I think he's also pointed out a few of Clinton's faults as well...Actually, he seems to me to broadly intersect the 'moderate Republican' camp. Debbi who could be wrong, but can't get the 'Hephalumps and Woozles (are very confuzles)' song out of her head at the moment -- and some of her _dearest friends_ are Republican! :) __ Do you Yahoo!? Yahoo! Platinum - Watch CBS' NCAA March Madness, live on your desktop! http://platinum.yahoo.com ___ http://www.mccmedia.com/mailman/listinfo/brin-l
Re: Oops, Clinton Just Lied Again....
--- In [EMAIL PROTECTED], Horn, John [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: ...in case you still didn't believe that Bill Clinton is and was a compulsive liar Give it a rest. He's not president anymore, remember? You won, OK? Your guy is in office. Boy, Republicans *really* hate that man... I think we hate the fact that the country we love was suckered by a compulsive liar for eight years. Indeed, the fact that Clinton was so successful here for eight years, so much so that even after committing perjury he could survive impeachment, really makes us question the efficacy of the US republican system that we love. And that, understandably makes us unhappy. Indeed, it is telling that no longer do people attempt to defend Clinton... they just concede his flaws and hope as best they can to forget him. That's progress in my mind. JDG ___ http://www.mccmedia.com/mailman/listinfo/brin-l
Conspiracy redux (was RE: Oops, Clinton Just Lied Again....)
-Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Behalf Of J.D. Giorgis ...in case you still didn't believe that Bill Clinton is and was a compulsive liar, he now claims to have dunked a basketball in a high school basketball game. Oops, consider the source. If there is anything that even vaguely resembles a vast, right-wing conspiracy, it is headed by the owner of the newspaper in which the article appeared, Richard Mellon Scaife, who has funded various anti-Clinton projects. Actually, owner is probably not the right word. It's part of the not-so-secret conspiracy to elect conservatives and destroy liberal leaders. And consider the context -- a sports opinion column. This wasn't presented as news. If it were, at a reputable newspaper, it couldn't have been offered without doing any homework on it. But there's nothing to indicated that the reporter (whom I knew when I was a reporter in Pittsburgh, and boy, am I disappointed in him) even tried to confirm the story. But then again, once you decide to work for Scaife, why bother? It's pretty pathetic when even the sports writers jump on the bandwagon. And consider that the quote from Clinton describes it as unbelievable. By the way... the first computers I ever used were located in Scaife Hall at CMU. I learned to swim in Andrew Mellon's pool (he donated his mansion to my father's college). My mother taught Scaife's daughters. My first checking account was at Mellon Bank. In Pittsburgh, one can hardly spit without hitting something produced or funded by Scaifes and Mellons. They are old, old, big, big money folks. So, John, what do *you* think of Richard Mellon Scaife??? Do you think he'll ever stop his campaign to discredit Clinton? Nick ___ http://www.mccmedia.com/mailman/listinfo/brin-l
RE: Oops, Clinton Just Lied Again....
At 04:46 PM 3/23/03 -0600, Horn, John wrote: From: J.D. Giorgis [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] ...in case you still didn't believe that Bill Clinton is and was a compulsive liar Give it a rest. He's not president anymore, remember? You won, OK? Your guy is in office. Boy, Republicans *really* hate that man... ...about as much as some now hate Bush -- and everything he stands for, and everything he does, just because _he_ stands for/does it? -- Ronn! :) God bless America, Land that I love! Stand beside her, and guide her Thru the night with a light from above. From the mountains, to the prairies, To the oceans, white with foamÂ… God bless America! My home, sweet home. -- Irving Berlin (1888-1989) ___ http://www.mccmedia.com/mailman/listinfo/brin-l
RE: Oops, Clinton Just Lied Again....
-Original Message- From: Ronn!Blankenship [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Sunday, March 23, 2003 06:38 PM To: Killer Bs Discussion Subject: RE: Oops, Clinton Just Lied Again At 04:46 PM 3/23/03 -0600, Horn, John wrote: From: J.D. Giorgis [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] ...in case you still didn't believe that Bill Clinton is and was a compulsive liar Give it a rest. He's not president anymore, remember? You won, OK? Your guy is in office. Boy, Republicans *really* hate that man... ...about as much as some now hate Bush -- and everything he stands for, and everything he does, just because _he_ stands for/does it? I think there's a critical difference, however. What Clinton did had little to no impact on how he performed in office, while Bush's action are having a daily-felt impact on people all over the world. -j- ___ http://www.mccmedia.com/mailman/listinfo/brin-l
Re: Oops, Clinton Just Lied Again....
Horn, John wrote: Give it a rest. He's not president anymore, remember? You won, OK? Your guy is in office. Boy, Republicans *really* hate that man... But they love a guy that tells substantive lies. Tax relief is central to my plan to encourage economic growth, and we can proceed with tax relief without fear of budget deficits, even if the economy softens, In my economic plan, more than $2 trillion of the federal surplus is locked away for Social Security. For years, politicians in both parties have dipped into the Trust Fund to pay for more spending. And I will stop it. I am going to ask Congress to bolster the first year (Pell Grant) aid from thirty-three hundred dollars to five thousand one hundred dollars As president, I would not sign legislation that would send nuclear waste to any proposed site unless it's been deemed scientifically safe. I also believe the federal government must work with the local and state governments that will be affected to address safety and transportation issues. I am committed to helping families prepare for the cost of higher education. And then there's this: George W. Bush does not lie about sex, I suppose--merely about war and peace. Most particularly he has consistently lied about Iraq's nuclear capabilities as well as its missile-delivery capabilities. Take a look at Milbank's gingerly worded page-one October 22 Post story if you doubt me. To cite just two particularly egregious examples, Bush tried to frighten Americans by claiming that Iraq possesses a fleet of unmanned aircraft that could be used for missions targeting the United States. Previously he insisted that a report by the International Atomic Energy Agency revealed the Iraqis to be six months away from developing a weapon. Both of these statements are false, but they are working. Nearly three-quarters of Americans surveyed think that Saddam is currently helping Al Qaeda; 71 percent think it is likely he was personally involved in the 9/11 attacks. What I want to know is why this kind of lying is apparently OK. Isn't it worse to refer repeatedly to intelligence...that remains largely unverified--as the Wall Street Journal puts it--in order to trick the nation into war, as Bush and other top US officials have done, than to lie about a blowjob? Isn't it worse to put pressure...on the intelligence agencies to deliberately slant estimates, as USA Today worded its report? Isn't it more damaging to offer cooked information, in the words of the CIA's former chief of counterterrorism, when you are asking young men and women to die for your lies? Don't we revile Lyndon Johnson for having done just that with his dishonest Gulf of Tonkin resolution? http://www.rense.com/general31/bushlies.htm Doug ___ http://www.mccmedia.com/mailman/listinfo/brin-l
