Re: CakePlus - On the top of CakePHP
On Mon, May 5, 2008 at 9:17 PM, Chris Hartjes <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > > On Mon, May 5, 2008 at 11:32 AM, R. Rajesh Jeba Anbiah > <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > > > > On May 5, 6:07 pm, "Chris Hartjes" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > > > On Sat, May 3, 2008 at 11:09 AM, R. Rajesh Jeba Anbiah > > > > > > > > <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > > > > Community: > > > > 1. 100% open (svn, wiki, Google groups) > > > > > > I'm wondering if by this you mean that anyone who wants can have > > > commit privileges to the repository? > > > > Yes, "In developers we trust" > > > > HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAH. > Pt he isn't a project manager yet. Ah! the sweet days of innocence @Rajesh - If you *really* build all that on top of Cake core your additions will be very popular. Otherwise I guess you will be better off building most stuff on top of code taken on X date and never look back - if you are hoping to keep in sync with the Cake trunk it is not going to happen, IME things will get painful very fast. This also means that you are essentially forking Cake in which case it might be helpful to look around for other (un-announced?) forks of CakePHP Tarique -- = Cheesecake-Photoblog: http://cheesecake-photoblog.org PHP for E-Biz: http://sanisoft.com = --~--~-~--~~~---~--~~ You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "CakePHP" group. To post to this group, send email to cake-php@googlegroups.com To unsubscribe from this group, send email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/cake-php?hl=en -~--~~~~--~~--~--~---
Re: CakePlus - On the top of CakePHP
That's a great idea, except that--in this instance--the motivation for this CakePlus fork seems more about "fixing" parts of Cake which the OP disagrees with rather than fixing outstanding bugs. Unless the core devs were to agree to these changes being made they aren't going to be in Trac for anyone to deal with. I think some of them (though not all) would be very worthwhile, btw. On Mon, May 5, 2008 at 1:05 PM, Sliv <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > > Personally I'd prefer to see all of this "energy" go into helping to > close tickets by writing tests, patches, documentation and offering > time/resources to join initiatives that need the help (i.e. > cookbook). I just find that helping is superior to forking for > everyone in the community, unless you've tried to help and run into a > wall of some sort. > > To use a personal example, I had thought of trying to fork a docs > initiative to concentrate on usage examples (less verbose than the > cookbook, more verbose than the API). That may or may not be a good > idea, but instead, at least for now, I've been working on fixing a > checkout of the bakery, helping with Trac "cleanup" and (up until > recently) helping manage this google group. > > I figure fixing existing issues by helping is better than starting > something else and leaving the community starving for assistance... > > > > > > --~--~-~--~~~---~--~~ You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "CakePHP" group. To post to this group, send email to cake-php@googlegroups.com To unsubscribe from this group, send email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/cake-php?hl=en -~--~~~~--~~--~--~---
Re: CakePlus - On the top of CakePHP
Personally I'd prefer to see all of this "energy" go into helping to close tickets by writing tests, patches, documentation and offering time/resources to join initiatives that need the help (i.e. cookbook). I just find that helping is superior to forking for everyone in the community, unless you've tried to help and run into a wall of some sort. To use a personal example, I had thought of trying to fork a docs initiative to concentrate on usage examples (less verbose than the cookbook, more verbose than the API). That may or may not be a good idea, but instead, at least for now, I've been working on fixing a checkout of the bakery, helping with Trac "cleanup" and (up until recently) helping manage this google group. I figure fixing existing issues by helping is better than starting something else and leaving the community starving for assistance... --~--~-~--~~~---~--~~ You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "CakePHP" group. To post to this group, send email to cake-php@googlegroups.com To unsubscribe from this group, send email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/cake-php?hl=en -~--~~~~--~~--~--~---
Re: CakePlus - On the top of CakePHP
> I could argue about this all day, but I've had enough. Dardo, we are > arguing about semantics so we must agree to disagree. I agree, I wasn't saying that git or it's model fits CakePHP or everyone. I said that it could help in CakePlus. > CakePlus is an attempt to fork CakePHP, nothing more. As was outlined in the first post, yes. I think I've made my stand clear: I don't agree to the idea of modifying the core, but I like the idea of making something that I can use on top of CakePHP, let's say: 1. Checkout the latest SVN of cake (just the core, not the appdir). 2. Clone CakePlus as the appdir. 3. Start hacking. > -- > > > Chris Hartjes > Internet Loudmouth > Motto for 2008: "Moving from herding elephants to handling snakes..." > @TheKeyBoard: http://www.littlehart.net/atthekeyboard > > > > --~--~-~--~~~---~--~~ You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "CakePHP" group. To post to this group, send email to cake-php@googlegroups.com To unsubscribe from this group, send email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/cake-php?hl=en -~--~~~~--~~--~--~---
Re: CakePlus - On the top of CakePHP
On Mon, May 5, 2008 at 12:08 PM, Dardo Sordi Bogado <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > > Chris, > > As you have a copy of full history, you can commit. You can't push to > Linus repository, as he didn't trust you. But he pulls directly from > the ones he trust, and examine the changes he thinks are worth > integrating. And there isn't a central repository from where you get > the source, most people use Linus, because they trust his work, but > you can use Alan Cox or Andrew Morton repos, or anyone you trust. See, > you still thinking in a centralized way. I understand totally what you are saying, believe me. But you just hit on the #1 issue I have that is simply being ignored: Linus won't let you push to his repository. What happened to "in developers we trust"? Trust has to be both ways. If the vast majority of people trust Linus, and Linus doesn't let just anyone push to his repo, then how is that any different than restricting access to a centralized repository? Linus created git because he hates Subversion and CVS, not because of some sort of noble quest to give commit access to the masses. Please don't confuse the two. Ok, let me push this out further. Let's say we are using git for CakePHP. PHPNut, Nate and gwoo all have repos that you can pull from, but each one is slightly different. Which one will people want to use as the "official" source for CakePHP? Despite what you think, some people want to know that there is an official source because, shockingly, they don't want to go through the dance of picking something from repo 1, something else from repo 2 and then something else from repo 3. I could argue about this all day, but I've had enough. Dardo, we are arguing about semantics so we must agree to disagree. CakePlus is an attempt to fork CakePHP, nothing more. -- Chris Hartjes Internet Loudmouth Motto for 2008: "Moving from herding elephants to handling snakes..." @TheKeyBoard: http://www.littlehart.net/atthekeyboard --~--~-~--~~~---~--~~ You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "CakePHP" group. To post to this group, send email to cake-php@googlegroups.com To unsubscribe from this group, send email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/cake-php?hl=en -~--~~~~--~~--~--~---
Re: CakePlus - On the top of CakePHP
> If you think of patches in Trac as other pseudo repositories, this is > exactly how CakePHP works right now. I know, just is more comfortable having that integrated in the SCM and use a full blown repo. > > And John, you are looking for the MOB branch ;) Browse > > http://repo.or.cz and find for a poject using it, then push your > > videos there. > > /me commits his Terry Tate vids LOL. > > > > > --~--~-~--~~~---~--~~ You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "CakePHP" group. To post to this group, send email to cake-php@googlegroups.com To unsubscribe from this group, send email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/cake-php?hl=en -~--~~~~--~~--~--~---
Re: CakePlus - On the top of CakePHP
On May 5, 2008, at 10:08 AM, Dardo Sordi Bogado wrote: > > Chris, > > As you have a copy of full history, you can commit. You can't push to > Linus repository, as he didn't trust you. But he pulls directly from > the ones he trust, and examine the changes he thinks are worth > integrating. And there isn't a central repository from where you get > the source, most people use Linus, because they trust his work, but > you can use Alan Cox or Andrew Morton repos, or anyone you trust. See, > you still thinking in a centralized way. If you think of patches in Trac as other pseudo repositories, this is exactly how CakePHP works right now. -- John > And John, you are looking for the MOB branch ;) Browse > http://repo.or.cz and find for a poject using it, then push your > videos there. /me commits his Terry Tate vids --~--~-~--~~~---~--~~ You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "CakePHP" group. To post to this group, send email to cake-php@googlegroups.com To unsubscribe from this group, send email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/cake-php?hl=en -~--~~~~--~~--~--~---
Re: CakePlus - On the top of CakePHP
LOL! Wasn't the source code for Windows leaked a while back? You mean I can add Windows in there too? It'd be running *in* the Linux Core, so that should resolve all its stability issues :P On Mon, May 5, 2008 at 11:58 AM, John David Anderson < [EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > > > On May 5, 2008, at 9:51 AM, Dardo Sordi Bogado wrote: > > > > > The linux kernel. > > Sweet. I've been looking for a place to backup my funny videos > collection. Imagine being able to have them at my fingertips on *any* > linux machine I sit down to!! > > Thanks for the tip. > > -- John > > > > > On Mon, May 5, 2008 at 12:47 PM, Chris Hartjes <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> > > wrote: > >> > >> On Mon, May 5, 2008 at 11:32 AM, R. Rajesh Jeba Anbiah > >> <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > >>> > >>> On May 5, 6:07 pm, "Chris Hartjes" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > On Sat, May 3, 2008 at 11:09 AM, R. Rajesh Jeba Anbiah > > >>> > <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > > Community: > > 1. 100% open (svn, wiki, Google groups) > > I'm wondering if by this you mean that anyone who wants can have > commit privileges to the repository? > >>> > >>> Yes, "In developers we trust" > >>> > >> > >> HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAH. > >> > >> Maybe I shouldn't laugh. > >> > >> Okay, I will just ignore what you are saying as the output of someone > >> who has no idea how any successful open source project works. If you > >> can point out ONE successful large open source project (yes, CakePHP > >> is a large open source project) that allows unfettered commit access > >> to their repository then maybe I would take you a little more > >> seriously. > >> > >> If that makes me a fascist, so be it. I pity in advance the person > >> responsible for integrating submissions and resolving code conflicts > >> in your project. > >> > >> > >> -- > >> Chris Hartjes > >> Internet Loudmouth > >> Motto for 2008: "Moving from herding elephants to handling snakes..." > >> @TheKeyBoard: http://www.littlehart.net/atthekeyboard > >> > >>> > >> > > > > > > > > > > --~--~-~--~~~---~--~~ You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "CakePHP" group. To post to this group, send email to cake-php@googlegroups.com To unsubscribe from this group, send email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/cake-php?hl=en -~--~~~~--~~--~--~---
Re: CakePlus - On the top of CakePHP
Chris, As you have a copy of full history, you can commit. You can't push to Linus repository, as he didn't trust you. But he pulls directly from the ones he trust, and examine the changes he thinks are worth integrating. And there isn't a central repository from where you get the source, most people use Linus, because they trust his work, but you can use Alan Cox or Andrew Morton repos, or anyone you trust. See, you still thinking in a centralized way. And John, you are looking for the MOB branch ;) Browse http://repo.or.cz and find for a poject using it, then push your videos there. On Mon, May 5, 2008 at 12:59 PM, Chris Hartjes <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > > On Mon, May 5, 2008 at 11:51 AM, Dardo Sordi Bogado > <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > > > > The linux kernel. > > Um, no. > > In the end there is someone who decides what goes into the main linux > trunk or whatever you feel like calling it. Therefore, there is no > "in developers we trust" mechanism in place for commits. They > restrict access to a few people. Yes, you can grab a copy but you > CANNOT SIMPLY ADD YOUR CHANGES WHEREVER YOU WANT and get them > accepted. > > http://www.wlug.org.nz/KernelDevelopmentWithGit > > You actually think I would say what I said without actually looking into it? > > -- > > > Chris Hartjes > Internet Loudmouth > Motto for 2008: "Moving from herding elephants to handling snakes..." > @TheKeyBoard: http://www.littlehart.net/atthekeyboard > > > > --~--~-~--~~~---~--~~ You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "CakePHP" group. To post to this group, send email to cake-php@googlegroups.com To unsubscribe from this group, send email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/cake-php?hl=en -~--~~~~--~~--~--~---
Re: CakePlus - On the top of CakePHP
On Mon, May 5, 2008 at 11:51 AM, Dardo Sordi Bogado <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > > The linux kernel. Um, no. In the end there is someone who decides what goes into the main linux trunk or whatever you feel like calling it. Therefore, there is no "in developers we trust" mechanism in place for commits. They restrict access to a few people. Yes, you can grab a copy but you CANNOT SIMPLY ADD YOUR CHANGES WHEREVER YOU WANT and get them accepted. http://www.wlug.org.nz/KernelDevelopmentWithGit You actually think I would say what I said without actually looking into it? -- Chris Hartjes Internet Loudmouth Motto for 2008: "Moving from herding elephants to handling snakes..." @TheKeyBoard: http://www.littlehart.net/atthekeyboard --~--~-~--~~~---~--~~ You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "CakePHP" group. To post to this group, send email to cake-php@googlegroups.com To unsubscribe from this group, send email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/cake-php?hl=en -~--~~~~--~~--~--~---
Re: CakePlus - On the top of CakePHP
On May 5, 2008, at 9:51 AM, Dardo Sordi Bogado wrote: > > The linux kernel. Sweet. I've been looking for a place to backup my funny videos collection. Imagine being able to have them at my fingertips on *any* linux machine I sit down to!! Thanks for the tip. -- John > On Mon, May 5, 2008 at 12:47 PM, Chris Hartjes <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> > wrote: >> >> On Mon, May 5, 2008 at 11:32 AM, R. Rajesh Jeba Anbiah >> <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: >>> >>> On May 5, 6:07 pm, "Chris Hartjes" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: On Sat, May 3, 2008 at 11:09 AM, R. Rajesh Jeba Anbiah >>> <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > Community: > 1. 100% open (svn, wiki, Google groups) I'm wondering if by this you mean that anyone who wants can have commit privileges to the repository? >>> >>> Yes, "In developers we trust" >>> >> >> HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAH. >> >> Maybe I shouldn't laugh. >> >> Okay, I will just ignore what you are saying as the output of someone >> who has no idea how any successful open source project works. If you >> can point out ONE successful large open source project (yes, CakePHP >> is a large open source project) that allows unfettered commit access >> to their repository then maybe I would take you a little more >> seriously. >> >> If that makes me a fascist, so be it. I pity in advance the person >> responsible for integrating submissions and resolving code conflicts >> in your project. >> >> >> -- >> Chris Hartjes >> Internet Loudmouth >> Motto for 2008: "Moving from herding elephants to handling snakes..." >> @TheKeyBoard: http://www.littlehart.net/atthekeyboard >> >>> >> > > > --~--~-~--~~~---~--~~ You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "CakePHP" group. To post to this group, send email to cake-php@googlegroups.com To unsubscribe from this group, send email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/cake-php?hl=en -~--~~~~--~~--~--~---
Re: CakePlus - On the top of CakePHP
The linux kernel. On Mon, May 5, 2008 at 12:47 PM, Chris Hartjes <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > > On Mon, May 5, 2008 at 11:32 AM, R. Rajesh Jeba Anbiah > <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > > > > On May 5, 6:07 pm, "Chris Hartjes" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > > > On Sat, May 3, 2008 at 11:09 AM, R. Rajesh Jeba Anbiah > > > > > > > > <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > > > > Community: > > > > 1. 100% open (svn, wiki, Google groups) > > > > > > I'm wondering if by this you mean that anyone who wants can have > > > commit privileges to the repository? > > > > Yes, "In developers we trust" > > > > HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAH. > > Maybe I shouldn't laugh. > > Okay, I will just ignore what you are saying as the output of someone > who has no idea how any successful open source project works. If you > can point out ONE successful large open source project (yes, CakePHP > is a large open source project) that allows unfettered commit access > to their repository then maybe I would take you a little more > seriously. > > If that makes me a fascist, so be it. I pity in advance the person > responsible for integrating submissions and resolving code conflicts > in your project. > > > -- > Chris Hartjes > Internet Loudmouth > Motto for 2008: "Moving from herding elephants to handling snakes..." > @TheKeyBoard: http://www.littlehart.net/atthekeyboard > > > > --~--~-~--~~~---~--~~ You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "CakePHP" group. To post to this group, send email to cake-php@googlegroups.com To unsubscribe from this group, send email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/cake-php?hl=en -~--~~~~--~~--~--~---
Re: CakePlus - On the top of CakePHP
On Mon, May 5, 2008 at 11:32 AM, R. Rajesh Jeba Anbiah <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > > On May 5, 6:07 pm, "Chris Hartjes" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > > On Sat, May 3, 2008 at 11:09 AM, R. Rajesh Jeba Anbiah > > > > > <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > > > Community: > > > 1. 100% open (svn, wiki, Google groups) > > > > I'm wondering if by this you mean that anyone who wants can have > > commit privileges to the repository? > > Yes, "In developers we trust" > HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAH. Maybe I shouldn't laugh. Okay, I will just ignore what you are saying as the output of someone who has no idea how any successful open source project works. If you can point out ONE successful large open source project (yes, CakePHP is a large open source project) that allows unfettered commit access to their repository then maybe I would take you a little more seriously. If that makes me a fascist, so be it. I pity in advance the person responsible for integrating submissions and resolving code conflicts in your project. -- Chris Hartjes Internet Loudmouth Motto for 2008: "Moving from herding elephants to handling snakes..." @TheKeyBoard: http://www.littlehart.net/atthekeyboard --~--~-~--~~~---~--~~ You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "CakePHP" group. To post to this group, send email to cake-php@googlegroups.com To unsubscribe from this group, send email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/cake-php?hl=en -~--~~~~--~~--~--~---
Re: CakePlus - On the top of CakePHP
On May 4, 12:46 pm, keymaster <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > Way too ambitious to make all these changes and still keep up with > evolving cake releases, IMHO. > > You're better off leaving the core as is, and just managing your value- > added stuff. That alone is a handful, but you'd get 80% of the benefit > with much less hassle. > > Really, the best thing would be to persuade the cake team to add some > of the proven stuff into the core (eg. bindable, sluggable, asset > helper, etc). That would obviate the need for your fork. I understand that many people are for not touching core. Andy has provided his very valuable suggestions for how to do that; possibly may start from that. Hope, all are happy now:-) -- Email: rrjanbiah-at-Y!comBlog: http://rajeshanbiah.blogspot.com/ --~--~-~--~~~---~--~~ You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "CakePHP" group. To post to this group, send email to cake-php@googlegroups.com To unsubscribe from this group, send email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/cake-php?hl=en -~--~~~~--~~--~--~---
Re: CakePlus - On the top of CakePHP
On May 4, 8:17 pm, Dérico Filho <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > First off, it is a fork. As a matter of voting, I am against and > thefore I shall not support it. I know I am no one, but it is a > thought anyway. > > There is a particular clause I deemed to be disattached of reality. > CakePHP, shall support PHP 6 and abandon PHP 4 as it lifespan passes > thru time. For instance, if you propose that your Cake+ drops supports > for PHP 4 now, it would break v4 users, what you do then? Use PHP > Downgrade, you add as a third-party component on what CakePHP has > bundled in its core, quite well developed. Perhaps you could adventure > in developing a new Cake-like framework, but as far as I can on your > "feature" list I would say it is going on Bad&wRong ways. I respect everyone's view. But, it's too early to judge if it's wrong or not. While I'm positive, you're against to it. Let's see what the future decides. -- Email: rrjanbiah-at-Y!comBlog: http://rajeshanbiah.blogspot.com/ --~--~-~--~~~---~--~~ You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "CakePHP" group. To post to this group, send email to cake-php@googlegroups.com To unsubscribe from this group, send email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/cake-php?hl=en -~--~~~~--~~--~--~---
Re: CakePlus - On the top of CakePHP
On May 5, 6:07 pm, "Chris Hartjes" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > On Sat, May 3, 2008 at 11:09 AM, R. Rajesh Jeba Anbiah > > <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > > Community: > > 1. 100% open (svn, wiki, Google groups) > > I'm wondering if by this you mean that anyone who wants can have > commit privileges to the repository? Yes, "In developers we trust" -- Email: rrjanbiah-at-Y!comBlog: http://rajeshanbiah.blogspot.com/ --~--~-~--~~~---~--~~ You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "CakePHP" group. To post to this group, send email to cake-php@googlegroups.com To unsubscribe from this group, send email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/cake-php?hl=en -~--~~~~--~~--~--~---
Re: CakePlus - On the top of CakePHP
On May 5, 6:52 pm, AD7six <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > On May 3, 7:45 pm, "R. Rajesh Jeba Anbiah" > <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > > On May 3, 8:59 pm, nate <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > > > > Also, for as quaintly egalitarian as your "no authority" clause is, it > > > doesn't fly in the real world. Even if "developers aren't morons," > > > that doesn't mean that you won't get n00bs who only think they know > > > what they're doing, or people who's opinions differ from yours. > > > > And you plan to handle this by branching? What does that leave you > > > with? Subtilely different versions of the same code, which fall into > > > a state of atrophy over time as they diverge from the core codebase > > > and from each other, and as developers lose interest, which tends to > > > happen on smaller projects. > > > > If you really think you can do this, hey, more power to you, but so > > > far this plan doesn't even sound good in theory. > > >I think, we can't conclude the future at this point of time; you > > may be right or wrong with your opinion on the openness of the > > project. But, I'm quite positive about the power of openness. > > Good luck with your efforts. If you > avoid making changes to the cake core* > make use of overriding > make use of externals/vendor branching > > You would have a fighting chance (IMHO) of succeeding and not having a > project that (might) look ok at the outset and quick stagnate. Thanks for the wonderful suggestions for which I'm waiting for, before preparing a draft:-) Many thanks again. -- Email: rrjanbiah-at-Y!comBlog: http://rajeshanbiah.blogspot.com/ --~--~-~--~~~---~--~~ You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "CakePHP" group. To post to this group, send email to cake-php@googlegroups.com To unsubscribe from this group, send email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/cake-php?hl=en -~--~~~~--~~--~--~---
Re: CakePlus - On the top of CakePHP
On May 3, 7:45 pm, "R. Rajesh Jeba Anbiah" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > On May 3, 8:59 pm, nate <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > > > Also, for as quaintly egalitarian as your "no authority" clause is, it > > doesn't fly in the real world. Even if "developers aren't morons," > > that doesn't mean that you won't get n00bs who only think they know > > what they're doing, or people who's opinions differ from yours. > > > And you plan to handle this by branching? What does that leave you > > with? Subtilely different versions of the same code, which fall into > > a state of atrophy over time as they diverge from the core codebase > > and from each other, and as developers lose interest, which tends to > > happen on smaller projects. > > > If you really think you can do this, hey, more power to you, but so > > far this plan doesn't even sound good in theory. > >I think, we can't conclude the future at this point of time; you > may be right or wrong with your opinion on the openness of the > project. But, I'm quite positive about the power of openness. Good luck with your efforts. If you avoid making changes to the cake core* make use of overriding make use of externals/vendor branching You would have a fighting chance (IMHO) of succeeding and not having a project that (might) look ok at the outset and quick stagnate. Cheers, AD *By which I mean 3. Remove scaffolding. Replace with UIMS -> don't remove things just for the sake of it 6. Remove Session, Cookie, XML, Configure wrappers. Todo: find a better solution especially in the absence of an alternative and when the things you want to replace are configurable 7. Change dispatcher to make the default URL scheme to /foos for index, /foo/id for view, /foo/edit/id for edit, /foo/add for add actions or when you can just change your default routes or use mapResources or otherwise with simple bootstrap code. 10. Remove debugger. Or move to vendor (xdebug seems better) or when just by defining DISABLE_DEFAULT_ERROR_HANDLING in your webroot index disables what you want to remove 13. Remove plugins. Replace with new "mods" architecture or when the change suggested potentially stems from a misunderstanding n. I think, modifying core is necessary evil. To bend it for the UIMS, it's extremely necessary any changes *at all* planned for core classes that could be overridden ( controller/model/view/helper/data source/etc.) imply change for the sake of change - and that's gonna hurt if you want to keep up to date. --~--~-~--~~~---~--~~ You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "CakePHP" group. To post to this group, send email to cake-php@googlegroups.com To unsubscribe from this group, send email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/cake-php?hl=en -~--~~~~--~~--~--~---
Re: CakePlus - On the top of CakePHP
On Sat, May 3, 2008 at 11:09 AM, R. Rajesh Jeba Anbiah <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > Community: > 1. 100% open (svn, wiki, Google groups) I'm wondering if by this you mean that anyone who wants can have commit privileges to the repository? -- Chris Hartjes Internet Loudmouth Motto for 2008: "Moving from herding elephants to handling snakes..." @TheKeyBoard: http://www.littlehart.net/atthekeyboard --~--~-~--~~~---~--~~ You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "CakePHP" group. To post to this group, send email to cake-php@googlegroups.com To unsubscribe from this group, send email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/cake-php?hl=en -~--~~~~--~~--~--~---
Re: CakePlus - On the top of CakePHP
Love it... can't wait to see it work. Good luck! On May 3, 10:09 am, "R. Rajesh Jeba Anbiah" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > I have been thinking this for a while and also posted this sometime > agohttp://groups.google.com/group/cake-php/browse_frm/thread/949555be03d... > But, I understand Cake should be a tiny and tight framework for many > people here. > > So, I envision something new on the top of CakePHP--CakePlus, a > complete toolkit to build contemporary UIMS based sites. And, thinking > of hosting in Google Code or SF.net. > > Basic idea for the toolkit: > 1. Bundle MiBake template, Asset helper, Bindable behavior, Validation > helper, Sluggable behavior, and other nice hacks & plugs from Daniel > Hofstetter (http://cakebaker.42dh.com), Andy Dawson (http://www.ad7six.com/ > ), Matt (http://www.pseudocoder.com/), Mariano Iglesias > 2. Bundle hacks from the post of grigri (especially the generic > controller), baz, franky, and other GG contributors > 3. Bundle a default "users" mod > 4. Bundle jQuery, but use event delegations (check BehaviorS.js) > 5. 100% degradable Ajax (autocomplete, inline-editing, popup, date > picker, client side validation--see Matt's Validation helper) > 6. Bundle Eric Meyer's reset.css. New CSS framework (liquid, IE 5 > friendly) > 7. Default themed views > 8. Distinguish between "vendors" and "libs" > 9. Unified pattern for sharing codes betweens M, V & C > 10. Admin interface. > 11. Bundle ACL/Auth > 12. All PHP codes to be beautified with PHP_Beautifier > > Changes to core: > 1. Remove compatibility and hacks > (e.g.,https://trac.cakephp.org/browser/branches/1.2.x.x/cake/libs/view/help... > ) > 2. Remove regexp wherever possible > (e.g.,https://trac.cakephp.org/browser/branches/1.2.x.x/cake/libs/model/dat... > ) > 3. Remove scaffolding. Replace with UIMS: Let the users to build > forms, define user level-based validation rules, etc > 4. Remove Translate Behavior. Replace with i18n > behaviorhttp://www.palivoda.eu/2008/04/i18n-in-cakephp-12-database-content-tr... > 5. Remove gettext based i18n. Replace with DB based. > 6. Remove Session, Cookie, XML, Configure wrappers. Todo: find a > better solution > 7. Change dispatcher to make the default URL scheme to /foos for > index, /foo/id for view, /foo/edit/id for edit, /foo/add for add > actions > 8. Remove Felix's Set, Http Socket stuffs. Or move them to vendors > 9. Remove or change ACL/Auth and Caching stuffs > 10. Remove debugger. Or move to vendor (xdebug seems better) > 11. PHP 5. Other version supports by downgrading > (http://www.akbkhome.com/svn/akpear/PHP_DownGrade/DownGrade.php, Alan Knowles) > 12. Pluggable caching & template systems > 13. Remove plugins. Replace with new "mods" architecture (mods > contributed through wiki or svn for quick improvements) which could be > installed through admin interface (Say, a "gallary" mod could be > plugged easily) > > Community: > 1. 100% open (svn, wiki, Google groups) > 2. No IRC > 3. All discussions through Google groups > 4. All docs and architecture drafts through Wiki > 5. On conflict of interests/architecture opinions, branch the project > 6. No authority. Tagline: "Developers are no morons". > >Comments and suggestions are always welcome. > > -- > > Email: rrjanbiah-at-Y!comBlog:http://rajeshanbiah.blogspot.com/ --~--~-~--~~~---~--~~ You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "CakePHP" group. To post to this group, send email to cake-php@googlegroups.com To unsubscribe from this group, send email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/cake-php?hl=en -~--~~~~--~~--~--~---
Re: CakePlus - On the top of CakePHP
The label of "On top of CakePHP" makes me laugh. Lol, you are forking CakePHP if you are going to change 75% of the core. Also, your idea of beatiful and ideal openess never works in real life, just as Nate said before. Git is good, and maybe it can help you with such crazy idea, but again, what are you expecting? That with every discussion CakePlus splits in two parts? Try to explain that to the newbies: "Look, you have 500 slightly different versions of CakePlus, take a look to every single one of them and then choose what version you like most. But hurry up, because tomorrow we are going to have 750 versions". Sounds crazy to me, every good proyect needs heads and core work. Cheers, mbavio On May 4, 12:17 pm, Dérico Filho <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > On May 3, 12:31 pm, nate <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > > > > > So it sounds like what you're talking about is really more like a > > fork. Because I don't see how this would "sit on top of" Cake so much > > as "be a replacement". How would you plan to maintain all these > > changes against each successive Cake release? > > > On May 3, 11:09 am, "R. Rajesh Jeba Anbiah" > > > <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > > > I have been thinking this for a while and also posted this sometime > > > agohttp://groups.google.com/group/cake-php/browse_frm/thread/949555be03d... > > > But, I understand Cake should be a tiny and tight framework for many > > > people here. > > > > So, I envision something new on the top of CakePHP--CakePlus, a > > > complete toolkit to build contemporary UIMS based sites. And, thinking > > > of hosting in Google Code or SF.net. > > > > Basic idea for the toolkit: > > > 1. Bundle MiBake template, Asset helper, Bindable behavior, Validation > > > helper, Sluggable behavior, and other nice hacks & plugs from Daniel > > > Hofstetter (http://cakebaker.42dh.com), Andy Dawson > > > (http://www.ad7six.com/ > > > ), Matt (http://www.pseudocoder.com/), Mariano Iglesias > > > 2. Bundle hacks from the post of grigri (especially the generic > > > controller), baz, franky, and other GG contributors > > > 3. Bundle a default "users" mod > > > 4. Bundle jQuery, but use event delegations (check BehaviorS.js) > > > 5. 100% degradable Ajax (autocomplete, inline-editing, popup, date > > > picker, client side validation--see Matt's Validation helper) > > > 6. Bundle Eric Meyer's reset.css. New CSS framework (liquid, IE 5 > > > friendly) > > > 7. Default themed views > > > 8. Distinguish between "vendors" and "libs" > > > 9. Unified pattern for sharing codes betweens M, V & C > > > 10. Admin interface. > > > 11. Bundle ACL/Auth > > > 12. All PHP codes to be beautified with PHP_Beautifier > > > > Changes to core: > > > 1. Remove compatibility and hacks > > > (e.g.,https://trac.cakephp.org/browser/branches/1.2.x.x/cake/libs/view/help... > > > ) > > > 2. Remove regexp wherever possible > > > (e.g.,https://trac.cakephp.org/browser/branches/1.2.x.x/cake/libs/model/dat... > > > ) > > > 3. Remove scaffolding. Replace with UIMS: Let the users to build > > > forms, define user level-based validation rules, etc > > > 4. Remove Translate Behavior. Replace with i18n > > > behaviorhttp://www.palivoda.eu/2008/04/i18n-in-cakephp-12-database-content-tr... > > > 5. Remove gettext based i18n. Replace with DB based. > > > 6. Remove Session, Cookie, XML, Configure wrappers. Todo: find a > > > better solution > > > 7. Change dispatcher to make the default URL scheme to /foos for > > > index, /foo/id for view, /foo/edit/id for edit, /foo/add for add > > > actions > > > 8. Remove Felix's Set, Http Socket stuffs. Or move them to vendors > > > 9. Remove or change ACL/Auth and Caching stuffs > > > 10. Remove debugger. Or move to vendor (xdebug seems better) > > > 11. PHP 5. Other version supports by downgrading > > > (http://www.akbkhome.com/svn/akpear/PHP_DownGrade/DownGrade.php, Alan > > > Knowles) > > > 12. Pluggable caching & template systems > > > 13. Remove plugins. Replace with new "mods" architecture (mods > > > contributed through wiki or svn for quick improvements) which could be > > > installed through admin interface (Say, a "gallary" mod could be > > > plugged easily) > > > > Community: > > > 1. 100% open (svn, wiki, Google groups) > > > 2. No IRC > > > 3. All discussions through Google groups > > > 4. All docs and architecture drafts through Wiki > > > 5. On conflict of interests/architecture opinions, branch the project > > > 6. No authority. Tagline: "Developers are no morons". > > > >Comments and suggestions are always welcome. > > > > -- > > > > > > Email: rrjanbiah-at-Y!comBlog:http://rajeshanbiah.blogspot.com/ > > First off, it is a fork. As a matter of voting, I am against and > thefore I shall not support it. I know I am no one, but it is a > thought anyway. > > There is a particular clause I deemed to be disattached of reality. > CakePHP, shall support PHP 6 and abandon PHP 4 as it lifespan passes > thru time. For instance, if you propose that your
Re: CakePlus - On the top of CakePHP
On May 3, 12:31 pm, nate <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > So it sounds like what you're talking about is really more like a > fork. Because I don't see how this would "sit on top of" Cake so much > as "be a replacement". How would you plan to maintain all these > changes against each successive Cake release? > > On May 3, 11:09 am, "R. Rajesh Jeba Anbiah" > > <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > > I have been thinking this for a while and also posted this sometime > > agohttp://groups.google.com/group/cake-php/browse_frm/thread/949555be03d... > > But, I understand Cake should be a tiny and tight framework for many > > people here. > > > So, I envision something new on the top of CakePHP--CakePlus, a > > complete toolkit to build contemporary UIMS based sites. And, thinking > > of hosting in Google Code or SF.net. > > > Basic idea for the toolkit: > > 1. Bundle MiBake template, Asset helper, Bindable behavior, Validation > > helper, Sluggable behavior, and other nice hacks & plugs from Daniel > > Hofstetter (http://cakebaker.42dh.com), Andy Dawson (http://www.ad7six.com/ > > ), Matt (http://www.pseudocoder.com/), Mariano Iglesias > > 2. Bundle hacks from the post of grigri (especially the generic > > controller), baz, franky, and other GG contributors > > 3. Bundle a default "users" mod > > 4. Bundle jQuery, but use event delegations (check BehaviorS.js) > > 5. 100% degradable Ajax (autocomplete, inline-editing, popup, date > > picker, client side validation--see Matt's Validation helper) > > 6. Bundle Eric Meyer's reset.css. New CSS framework (liquid, IE 5 > > friendly) > > 7. Default themed views > > 8. Distinguish between "vendors" and "libs" > > 9. Unified pattern for sharing codes betweens M, V & C > > 10. Admin interface. > > 11. Bundle ACL/Auth > > 12. All PHP codes to be beautified with PHP_Beautifier > > > Changes to core: > > 1. Remove compatibility and hacks > > (e.g.,https://trac.cakephp.org/browser/branches/1.2.x.x/cake/libs/view/help... > > ) > > 2. Remove regexp wherever possible > > (e.g.,https://trac.cakephp.org/browser/branches/1.2.x.x/cake/libs/model/dat... > > ) > > 3. Remove scaffolding. Replace with UIMS: Let the users to build > > forms, define user level-based validation rules, etc > > 4. Remove Translate Behavior. Replace with i18n > > behaviorhttp://www.palivoda.eu/2008/04/i18n-in-cakephp-12-database-content-tr... > > 5. Remove gettext based i18n. Replace with DB based. > > 6. Remove Session, Cookie, XML, Configure wrappers. Todo: find a > > better solution > > 7. Change dispatcher to make the default URL scheme to /foos for > > index, /foo/id for view, /foo/edit/id for edit, /foo/add for add > > actions > > 8. Remove Felix's Set, Http Socket stuffs. Or move them to vendors > > 9. Remove or change ACL/Auth and Caching stuffs > > 10. Remove debugger. Or move to vendor (xdebug seems better) > > 11. PHP 5. Other version supports by downgrading > > (http://www.akbkhome.com/svn/akpear/PHP_DownGrade/DownGrade.php, Alan > > Knowles) > > 12. Pluggable caching & template systems > > 13. Remove plugins. Replace with new "mods" architecture (mods > > contributed through wiki or svn for quick improvements) which could be > > installed through admin interface (Say, a "gallary" mod could be > > plugged easily) > > > Community: > > 1. 100% open (svn, wiki, Google groups) > > 2. No IRC > > 3. All discussions through Google groups > > 4. All docs and architecture drafts through Wiki > > 5. On conflict of interests/architecture opinions, branch the project > > 6. No authority. Tagline: "Developers are no morons". > > > Comments and suggestions are always welcome. > > > -- > > > > Email: rrjanbiah-at-Y!com Blog:http://rajeshanbiah.blogspot.com/ First off, it is a fork. As a matter of voting, I am against and thefore I shall not support it. I know I am no one, but it is a thought anyway. There is a particular clause I deemed to be disattached of reality. CakePHP, shall support PHP 6 and abandon PHP 4 as it lifespan passes thru time. For instance, if you propose that your Cake+ drops supports for PHP 4 now, it would break v4 users, what you do then? Use PHP Downgrade, you add as a third-party component on what CakePHP has bundled in its core, quite well developed. Perhaps you could adventure in developing a new Cake-like framework, but as far as I can on your "feature" list I would say it is going on Bad&wRong ways. --~--~-~--~~~---~--~~ You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "CakePHP" group. To post to this group, send email to cake-php@googlegroups.com To unsubscribe from this group, send email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/cake-php?hl=en -~--~~~~--~~--~--~---
Re: CakePlus - On the top of CakePHP
Where's the nate that I was expecting to have teared him a new one already? ;) Seriously, though, I have to agree with nate and Tarique. Keeping the project focussed seems to be key. I have all the confidence in the world that the project will evolve in the right direction on it's own. Yes, I would like to see some of these other features rolled into the core, but I think it's best for the core developers who are most intimate with the inner workings of Cake to decide what should and should not make it in there. I don't have much experience with other open source projects to draw comparison too, but this one seems to be doing just fine without too many cooks. --~--~-~--~~~---~--~~ You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "CakePHP" group. To post to this group, send email to cake-php@googlegroups.com To unsubscribe from this group, send email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/cake-php?hl=en -~--~~~~--~~--~--~---
Re: CakePlus - On the top of CakePHP
Way too ambitious to make all these changes and still keep up with evolving cake releases, IMHO. You're better off leaving the core as is, and just managing your value- added stuff. That alone is a handful, but you'd get 80% of the benefit with much less hassle. Really, the best thing would be to persuade the cake team to add some of the proven stuff into the core (eg. bindable, sluggable, asset helper, etc). That would obviate the need for your fork. Any remote chance of that happening, Nate? --~--~-~--~~~---~--~~ You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "CakePHP" group. To post to this group, send email to cake-php@googlegroups.com To unsubscribe from this group, send email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/cake-php?hl=en -~--~~~~--~~--~--~---
Re: CakePlus - On the top of CakePHP
On May 3, 11:19 pm, "Dardo Sordi Bogado" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > > I think, modifying core is necessary evil. To bend it for the > > UIMS, it's extremely necessary. > > I need to do my research in the area before arguing. > > > Another change that seems extremely > > necessary is component vs model namespace confusion (You don't know > > what is foo in $this->foo: if model or component). > > I can live with that confusion ;) > > > I'll try to prepare > > a draft with changes and if others agree, I'll proceed. But, IMHO, > > they looks necessary. May also take some ideas from orchid and fase > > frameworks. And, thanks for your comments and ideas. > > Looking forward to see it, as I said before it's an area of interest for me. > > About modifying the core, I still don't feel comfortable with that ( > and I've already done it for a couple of my projects ), the thing that > worries me the most is the dupplicattion of effort. I think many > things can be done with conventions, say naming things in determinated > way or inheriting from some base class, ie use CRUDSController for > base instead of AppController. Many thanks for your constructive comments. I'll wait some more time for others' comments/suggestions if any, before preparing the draft. > Also I agree about your idea of openness, there are lots of successful > open projects, and keeping that in mind is that I suggest you have a > look at git (http://git.or.cz/), it's a distributed SCM, where every > one has the full history of the project so no repository is more > important than the other and it encoourages truly parallel > development. Many thanks for letting me know git; I was aware of svk, but this is new for me. Thanks again for your comments. -- Email: rrjanbiah-at-Y!comBlog: http://rajeshanbiah.blogspot.com/ --~--~-~--~~~---~--~~ You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "CakePHP" group. To post to this group, send email to cake-php@googlegroups.com To unsubscribe from this group, send email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/cake-php?hl=en -~--~~~~--~~--~--~---
Re: CakePlus - On the top of CakePHP
> That said, good lock! That should be "good luck!", ouch! --~--~-~--~~~---~--~~ You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "CakePHP" group. To post to this group, send email to cake-php@googlegroups.com To unsubscribe from this group, send email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/cake-php?hl=en -~--~~~~--~~--~--~---
Re: CakePlus - On the top of CakePHP
> I think, modifying core is necessary evil. To bend it for the > UIMS, it's extremely necessary. I need to do my research in the area before arguing. > Another change that seems extremely > necessary is component vs model namespace confusion (You don't know > what is foo in $this->foo: if model or component). I can live with that confusion ;) > I'll try to prepare > a draft with changes and if others agree, I'll proceed. But, IMHO, > they looks necessary. May also take some ideas from orchid and fase > frameworks. And, thanks for your comments and ideas. Looking forward to see it, as I said before it's an area of interest for me. About modifying the core, I still don't feel comfortable with that ( and I've already done it for a couple of my projects ), the thing that worries me the most is the dupplicattion of effort. I think many things can be done with conventions, say naming things in determinated way or inheriting from some base class, ie use CRUDSController for base instead of AppController. Also I agree about your idea of openness, there are lots of successful open projects, and keeping that in mind is that I suggest you have a look at git ( http://git.or.cz/ ), it's a distributed SCM, where every one has the full history of the project so no repository is more important than the other and it encoourages truly parallel development. That said, good lock! - Dardo Sordi. > -- > > Email: rrjanbiah-at-Y!comBlog: http://rajeshanbiah.blogspot.com/ > > > --~--~-~--~~~---~--~~ You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "CakePHP" group. To post to this group, send email to cake-php@googlegroups.com To unsubscribe from this group, send email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/cake-php?hl=en -~--~~~~--~~--~--~---
Re: CakePlus - On the top of CakePHP
On May 3, 9:04 pm, "Dardo Sordi Bogado" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > Yes, It sounds like a fork. Anyway, maintaining a set of changes to > the core on top of the svn is easily done with git and quilt (as SCM > goes) but involves too much work from programmers. > > I've tried to make a "thing on top of CakePHP" many times, never got > time to make it usable. But I'll like to contribute to the effort, > just don't like the idea of touching the core. There are many things > you can do providing classes that lay inside the app dir taking > precendence from the core ones. I think is better to work in a higher > layer on top of CakePHP instead of modifying the core, the core teams > is doing an excellent work. I think, modifying core is necessary evil. To bend it for the UIMS, it's extremely necessary. Another change that seems extremely necessary is component vs model namespace confusion (You don't know what is foo in $this->foo: if model or component). I'll try to prepare a draft with changes and if others agree, I'll proceed. But, IMHO, they looks necessary. May also take some ideas from orchid and fase frameworks. And, thanks for your comments and ideas. -- Email: rrjanbiah-at-Y!comBlog: http://rajeshanbiah.blogspot.com/ --~--~-~--~~~---~--~~ You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "CakePHP" group. To post to this group, send email to cake-php@googlegroups.com To unsubscribe from this group, send email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/cake-php?hl=en -~--~~~~--~~--~--~---
Re: CakePlus - On the top of CakePHP
On May 3, 8:59 pm, nate <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > Also, for as quaintly egalitarian as your "no authority" clause is, it > doesn't fly in the real world. Even if "developers aren't morons," > that doesn't mean that you won't get n00bs who only think they know > what they're doing, or people who's opinions differ from yours. > > And you plan to handle this by branching? What does that leave you > with? Subtilely different versions of the same code, which fall into > a state of atrophy over time as they diverge from the core codebase > and from each other, and as developers lose interest, which tends to > happen on smaller projects. > > If you really think you can do this, hey, more power to you, but so > far this plan doesn't even sound good in theory. I think, we can't conclude the future at this point of time; you may be right or wrong with your opinion on the openness of the project. But, I'm quite positive about the power of openness. Fascists believe in authority as they want to rule over others, which may not happen here because of the openness. Also, newbies are great contributors (for instance, I have removed bunch of spams form Rails wiki when I was learning Rails). Conflicts are necessary evil (if everyone believes in a same programming language and framework, what is the need for others) and may occur only when there is no communication. People may many times want credit--which they can do through Wiki if they want. Let's see what happens. But, I'm extremely positive. -- Email: rrjanbiah-at-Y!comBlog: http://rajeshanbiah.blogspot.com/ --~--~-~--~~~---~--~~ You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "CakePHP" group. To post to this group, send email to cake-php@googlegroups.com To unsubscribe from this group, send email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/cake-php?hl=en -~--~~~~--~~--~--~---
Re: CakePlus - On the top of CakePHP
Well, clearly some things aren't obvious to everybody. ;-) On May 3, 12:09 pm, "Dr. Tarique Sani" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > On Sat, May 3, 2008 at 9:29 PM, nate <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > > If you really think you can do this, hey, more power to you, but so > > far this plan doesn't even sound good in theory. > > Nate I am sure all the devs have better things to do than write long > explanations of the obvious ;) > > Cheers > Tarique > > -- > = > Cheesecake-Photoblog:http://cheesecake-photoblog.org > PHP for E-Biz:http://sanisoft.com > = --~--~-~--~~~---~--~~ You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "CakePHP" group. To post to this group, send email to cake-php@googlegroups.com To unsubscribe from this group, send email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/cake-php?hl=en -~--~~~~--~~--~--~---
Re: CakePlus - On the top of CakePHP
On Sat, May 3, 2008 at 9:29 PM, nate <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > If you really think you can do this, hey, more power to you, but so > far this plan doesn't even sound good in theory. > Nate I am sure all the devs have better things to do than write long explanations of the obvious ;) Cheers Tarique -- = Cheesecake-Photoblog: http://cheesecake-photoblog.org PHP for E-Biz: http://sanisoft.com = --~--~-~--~~~---~--~~ You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "CakePHP" group. To post to this group, send email to cake-php@googlegroups.com To unsubscribe from this group, send email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/cake-php?hl=en -~--~~~~--~~--~--~---
Re: CakePlus - On the top of CakePHP
> So it sounds like what you're talking about is really more like a > fork. Because I don't see how this would "sit on top of" Cake so much > as "be a replacement". How would you plan to maintain all these > changes against each successive Cake release? Yes, It sounds like a fork. Anyway, maintaining a set of changes to the core on top of the svn is easily done with git and quilt (as SCM goes) but involves too much work from programmers. I've tried to make a "thing on top of CakePHP" many times, never got time to make it usable. But I'll like to contribute to the effort, just don't like the idea of touching the core. There are many things you can do providing classes that lay inside the app dir taking precendence from the core ones. I think is better to work in a higher layer on top of CakePHP instead of modifying the core, the core teams is doing an excellent work. - Dardo Sordi. > On May 3, 11:09 am, "R. Rajesh Jeba Anbiah" > > <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > > I have been thinking this for a while and also posted this sometime > > agohttp://groups.google.com/group/cake-php/browse_frm/thread/949555be03d... > > > > But, I understand Cake should be a tiny and tight framework for many > > people here. > > > > So, I envision something new on the top of CakePHP--CakePlus, a > > complete toolkit to build contemporary UIMS based sites. And, thinking > > of hosting in Google Code or SF.net. > > > > Basic idea for the toolkit: > > 1. Bundle MiBake template, Asset helper, Bindable behavior, Validation > > helper, Sluggable behavior, and other nice hacks & plugs from Daniel > > Hofstetter (http://cakebaker.42dh.com), Andy Dawson (http://www.ad7six.com/ > > ), Matt (http://www.pseudocoder.com/), Mariano Iglesias > > 2. Bundle hacks from the post of grigri (especially the generic > > controller), baz, franky, and other GG contributors > > 3. Bundle a default "users" mod > > 4. Bundle jQuery, but use event delegations (check BehaviorS.js) > > 5. 100% degradable Ajax (autocomplete, inline-editing, popup, date > > picker, client side validation--see Matt's Validation helper) > > 6. Bundle Eric Meyer's reset.css. New CSS framework (liquid, IE 5 > > friendly) > > 7. Default themed views > > 8. Distinguish between "vendors" and "libs" > > 9. Unified pattern for sharing codes betweens M, V & C > > 10. Admin interface. > > 11. Bundle ACL/Auth > > 12. All PHP codes to be beautified with PHP_Beautifier > > > > Changes to core: > > 1. Remove compatibility and hacks > (e.g.,https://trac.cakephp.org/browser/branches/1.2.x.x/cake/libs/view/help... > > ) > > 2. Remove regexp wherever possible > (e.g.,https://trac.cakephp.org/browser/branches/1.2.x.x/cake/libs/model/dat... > > > ) > > 3. Remove scaffolding. Replace with UIMS: Let the users to build > > forms, define user level-based validation rules, etc > > 4. Remove Translate Behavior. Replace with i18n > behaviorhttp://www.palivoda.eu/2008/04/i18n-in-cakephp-12-database-content-tr... > > > > 5. Remove gettext based i18n. Replace with DB based. > > 6. Remove Session, Cookie, XML, Configure wrappers. Todo: find a > > better solution > > 7. Change dispatcher to make the default URL scheme to /foos for > > index, /foo/id for view, /foo/edit/id for edit, /foo/add for add > > actions > > 8. Remove Felix's Set, Http Socket stuffs. Or move them to vendors > > 9. Remove or change ACL/Auth and Caching stuffs > > 10. Remove debugger. Or move to vendor (xdebug seems better) > > 11. PHP 5. Other version supports by downgrading > (http://www.akbkhome.com/svn/akpear/PHP_DownGrade/DownGrade.php, Alan Knowles) > > 12. Pluggable caching & template systems > > 13. Remove plugins. Replace with new "mods" architecture (mods > > contributed through wiki or svn for quick improvements) which could be > > installed through admin interface (Say, a "gallary" mod could be > > plugged easily) > > > > Community: > > 1. 100% open (svn, wiki, Google groups) > > 2. No IRC > > 3. All discussions through Google groups > > 4. All docs and architecture drafts through Wiki > > 5. On conflict of interests/architecture opinions, branch the project > > 6. No authority. Tagline: "Developers are no morons". > > > >Comments and suggestions are always welcome. > > > > -- > > > > Email: rrjanbiah-at-Y!comBlog:http://rajeshanbiah.blogspot.com/ > > > --~--~-~--~~~---~--~~ You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "CakePHP" group. To post to this group, send email to cake-php@googlegroups.com To unsubscribe from this group, send email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/cake-php?hl=en -~--~~~~--~~--~--~---
Re: CakePlus - On the top of CakePHP
Also, for as quaintly egalitarian as your "no authority" clause is, it doesn't fly in the real world. Even if "developers aren't morons," that doesn't mean that you won't get n00bs who only think they know what they're doing, or people who's opinions differ from yours. And you plan to handle this by branching? What does that leave you with? Subtilely different versions of the same code, which fall into a state of atrophy over time as they diverge from the core codebase and from each other, and as developers lose interest, which tends to happen on smaller projects. If you really think you can do this, hey, more power to you, but so far this plan doesn't even sound good in theory. On May 3, 11:09 am, "R. Rajesh Jeba Anbiah" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > I have been thinking this for a while and also posted this sometime > agohttp://groups.google.com/group/cake-php/browse_frm/thread/949555be03d... > But, I understand Cake should be a tiny and tight framework for many > people here. > > So, I envision something new on the top of CakePHP--CakePlus, a > complete toolkit to build contemporary UIMS based sites. And, thinking > of hosting in Google Code or SF.net. > > Basic idea for the toolkit: > 1. Bundle MiBake template, Asset helper, Bindable behavior, Validation > helper, Sluggable behavior, and other nice hacks & plugs from Daniel > Hofstetter (http://cakebaker.42dh.com), Andy Dawson (http://www.ad7six.com/ > ), Matt (http://www.pseudocoder.com/), Mariano Iglesias > 2. Bundle hacks from the post of grigri (especially the generic > controller), baz, franky, and other GG contributors > 3. Bundle a default "users" mod > 4. Bundle jQuery, but use event delegations (check BehaviorS.js) > 5. 100% degradable Ajax (autocomplete, inline-editing, popup, date > picker, client side validation--see Matt's Validation helper) > 6. Bundle Eric Meyer's reset.css. New CSS framework (liquid, IE 5 > friendly) > 7. Default themed views > 8. Distinguish between "vendors" and "libs" > 9. Unified pattern for sharing codes betweens M, V & C > 10. Admin interface. > 11. Bundle ACL/Auth > 12. All PHP codes to be beautified with PHP_Beautifier > > Changes to core: > 1. Remove compatibility and hacks > (e.g.,https://trac.cakephp.org/browser/branches/1.2.x.x/cake/libs/view/help... > ) > 2. Remove regexp wherever possible > (e.g.,https://trac.cakephp.org/browser/branches/1.2.x.x/cake/libs/model/dat... > ) > 3. Remove scaffolding. Replace with UIMS: Let the users to build > forms, define user level-based validation rules, etc > 4. Remove Translate Behavior. Replace with i18n > behaviorhttp://www.palivoda.eu/2008/04/i18n-in-cakephp-12-database-content-tr... > 5. Remove gettext based i18n. Replace with DB based. > 6. Remove Session, Cookie, XML, Configure wrappers. Todo: find a > better solution > 7. Change dispatcher to make the default URL scheme to /foos for > index, /foo/id for view, /foo/edit/id for edit, /foo/add for add > actions > 8. Remove Felix's Set, Http Socket stuffs. Or move them to vendors > 9. Remove or change ACL/Auth and Caching stuffs > 10. Remove debugger. Or move to vendor (xdebug seems better) > 11. PHP 5. Other version supports by downgrading > (http://www.akbkhome.com/svn/akpear/PHP_DownGrade/DownGrade.php, Alan Knowles) > 12. Pluggable caching & template systems > 13. Remove plugins. Replace with new "mods" architecture (mods > contributed through wiki or svn for quick improvements) which could be > installed through admin interface (Say, a "gallary" mod could be > plugged easily) > > Community: > 1. 100% open (svn, wiki, Google groups) > 2. No IRC > 3. All discussions through Google groups > 4. All docs and architecture drafts through Wiki > 5. On conflict of interests/architecture opinions, branch the project > 6. No authority. Tagline: "Developers are no morons". > > Comments and suggestions are always welcome. > > -- > > Email: rrjanbiah-at-Y!com Blog:http://rajeshanbiah.blogspot.com/ --~--~-~--~~~---~--~~ You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "CakePHP" group. To post to this group, send email to cake-php@googlegroups.com To unsubscribe from this group, send email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/cake-php?hl=en -~--~~~~--~~--~--~---
Re: CakePlus - On the top of CakePHP
So it sounds like what you're talking about is really more like a fork. Because I don't see how this would "sit on top of" Cake so much as "be a replacement". How would you plan to maintain all these changes against each successive Cake release? On May 3, 11:09 am, "R. Rajesh Jeba Anbiah" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > I have been thinking this for a while and also posted this sometime > agohttp://groups.google.com/group/cake-php/browse_frm/thread/949555be03d... > But, I understand Cake should be a tiny and tight framework for many > people here. > > So, I envision something new on the top of CakePHP--CakePlus, a > complete toolkit to build contemporary UIMS based sites. And, thinking > of hosting in Google Code or SF.net. > > Basic idea for the toolkit: > 1. Bundle MiBake template, Asset helper, Bindable behavior, Validation > helper, Sluggable behavior, and other nice hacks & plugs from Daniel > Hofstetter (http://cakebaker.42dh.com), Andy Dawson (http://www.ad7six.com/ > ), Matt (http://www.pseudocoder.com/), Mariano Iglesias > 2. Bundle hacks from the post of grigri (especially the generic > controller), baz, franky, and other GG contributors > 3. Bundle a default "users" mod > 4. Bundle jQuery, but use event delegations (check BehaviorS.js) > 5. 100% degradable Ajax (autocomplete, inline-editing, popup, date > picker, client side validation--see Matt's Validation helper) > 6. Bundle Eric Meyer's reset.css. New CSS framework (liquid, IE 5 > friendly) > 7. Default themed views > 8. Distinguish between "vendors" and "libs" > 9. Unified pattern for sharing codes betweens M, V & C > 10. Admin interface. > 11. Bundle ACL/Auth > 12. All PHP codes to be beautified with PHP_Beautifier > > Changes to core: > 1. Remove compatibility and hacks > (e.g.,https://trac.cakephp.org/browser/branches/1.2.x.x/cake/libs/view/help... > ) > 2. Remove regexp wherever possible > (e.g.,https://trac.cakephp.org/browser/branches/1.2.x.x/cake/libs/model/dat... > ) > 3. Remove scaffolding. Replace with UIMS: Let the users to build > forms, define user level-based validation rules, etc > 4. Remove Translate Behavior. Replace with i18n > behaviorhttp://www.palivoda.eu/2008/04/i18n-in-cakephp-12-database-content-tr... > 5. Remove gettext based i18n. Replace with DB based. > 6. Remove Session, Cookie, XML, Configure wrappers. Todo: find a > better solution > 7. Change dispatcher to make the default URL scheme to /foos for > index, /foo/id for view, /foo/edit/id for edit, /foo/add for add > actions > 8. Remove Felix's Set, Http Socket stuffs. Or move them to vendors > 9. Remove or change ACL/Auth and Caching stuffs > 10. Remove debugger. Or move to vendor (xdebug seems better) > 11. PHP 5. Other version supports by downgrading > (http://www.akbkhome.com/svn/akpear/PHP_DownGrade/DownGrade.php, Alan Knowles) > 12. Pluggable caching & template systems > 13. Remove plugins. Replace with new "mods" architecture (mods > contributed through wiki or svn for quick improvements) which could be > installed through admin interface (Say, a "gallary" mod could be > plugged easily) > > Community: > 1. 100% open (svn, wiki, Google groups) > 2. No IRC > 3. All discussions through Google groups > 4. All docs and architecture drafts through Wiki > 5. On conflict of interests/architecture opinions, branch the project > 6. No authority. Tagline: "Developers are no morons". > > Comments and suggestions are always welcome. > > -- > > Email: rrjanbiah-at-Y!com Blog:http://rajeshanbiah.blogspot.com/ --~--~-~--~~~---~--~~ You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "CakePHP" group. To post to this group, send email to cake-php@googlegroups.com To unsubscribe from this group, send email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/cake-php?hl=en -~--~~~~--~~--~--~---