Re: [ccp4bb] 3D model building without CRT monitor
Just a couple of days ago I received e-mail from a French company with the following content: we offer professional stereo glasses, fully compatible with all the the stereo capable software (O, Coot, Xfit, Molmol, Accelrys, Tripos.). we can provide you with a demo unit for testing purposes if need be. And we would like to take the opportunity of this mail, to introduce the brand new LCD product from Nuvision the Perceiva DSD190. This 19'' stereo monitor is delivered with Lightweight passive glasses and is fully compatible with all stereo ready software. *Hervé SCHWERTZ* ZA Les Priaux 07430 VERNOSC Tel: 04 75 69 00 40 Fax: 04 75 69 00 48 Web : http://www.pixeltech.fr I hope you find this useful, we will try the glasses to start with, Salam Al-Karadaghi -Original Message- From: CCP4 bulletin board [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of PhilEvans Sent: den 5 juni 2008 23:17 To: CCP4BB@JISCMAIL.AC.UK Subject: Re: [ccp4bb] 3D model building without CRT monitor We now have a Planar system, which works very nicely with coot, O , ccp4mg etc. Rather expensive though Phil Evans On 2 Jun 2008, at 17:06, Mike Latchem wrote: These new TFT monitors do seem like a really good idea, but, it is well worth doing in depth research as most of the accessible (Cheap) ones designed for gaming currently only operate with directX. As I understand it there are plans to make these work with openGL as well as directX so they should work with programs like coot etc. Just be careful and confirm with the people supplying the TFT that it will work with your software package of choice. P.S. a colleague of mine who is interested in tomography suggested the planar TFTs work well (they are also very expensive and bulky) - but be sure to confirm they work with your software of choice before paying for one http://www.planar3d.com/ Regards Mike On Mon, 2008-06-02 at 11:51 -0400, Jim Fairman wrote: Hello all, There is a new company around that makes a 3D capable 22 inch flat screen LCD monitor (http://www.iz3d.com) capable of a maximum resolution of 1680x1050. It is originally designed for the purpose of playing video games in 3D, but looks promising for ridding ourselves of the huge bulky CRTs. Cheers On Mon, Jun 2, 2008 at 11:08 AM, Warren DeLano [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: For used-stereo-3D-capable-CRT seekers, our stereo 3D page may be of some use. A number of target monitors are listed. http://pymol.sourceforge.net/stereo3d.html -Original Message- From: CCP4 bulletin board on behalf of Krojer,Tobias Sent: Mon 6/2/2008 5:24 AM To: CCP4BB@JISCMAIL.AC.UK Subject: [ccp4bb] 3D model building without CRT monitor Dear all, recently some of our CRT monitors broke down and we realized that these monitors are no longer produced. However, we would still like to continue model building in 3D which is apparently not possible with current TFT displays. Beside the possibility of getting old CRT monitors at ebay, I was wondering how other groups solved this problem. Thank you very much for suggestions! best wishes, Tobias Tobias Krojer, PhD IMP (Research Institute of Molecular Pathology) Dr. Bohr-Gasse 7 1030 Vienna Austria Tel.: +43-1-797303358 Fax.: +43-1-7987153 -- Jim Fairman Graduate Research Assistant Department of Biochemistry, Cellular, and Molecular Biology (BCMB) University of Tennessee -- Knoxville 216-368-3337 [EMAIL PROTECTED] [EMAIL PROTECTED] DIVFONT size=1 color=grayThis e-mail and any attachments may contain confidential, copyright and or privileged material, and are for the use of the intended addressee only. If you are not the intended addressee or an authorised recipient of the addressee please notify us of receipt by returning the e-mail and do not use, copy, retain, distribute or disclose the information in or attached to the e-mail. Any opinions expressed within this e-mail are those of the individual and not necessarily of Diamond Light Source Ltd. Diamond Light Source Ltd. cannot guarantee that this e-mail or any attachments are free from viruses and we cannot accept liability for any damage which you may sustain as a result of software viruses which may be transmitted in or with the message. Diamond Light Source Limited (company no. 4375679). Registered in England and Wales with its registered office at Diamond House, Harwell Science and Innovation Campus, Didcot, Oxfordshire, OX11 0DE, United Kingdom /FONT/DIV
Re: [ccp4bb] 3D model building without CRT monitor
On Jun 2, 2008, at 11:51 AM, Jim Fairman wrote: There is a new company around that makes a 3D capable 22 inch flat screen LCD monitor (http://www.iz3d.com) capable of a maximum resolution of 1680x1050. It is originally designed for the purpose of playing video games in 3D, but looks promising for ridding ourselves of the huge bulky CRTs. I have looked at the specs for this iz3d monitor and the Zalman ZM-220W (http://www.zalman.co.kr/eng/product/Product_read.asp? Idx=219). Both are attractive since they are passive stereo. Under linux, I am pretty sure neither of these will work, at least not with a Nvidia card. The iz3d uses a non-standard front-back 3D imaging, and you need their special drivers only available on Windoz. The Zalman is a bit more promising since it does left-right, but the monitor uses interlacing to present the left right images. The nvidia xorg driver does have two interlaced stereo modes for quadro cards, but who knows if either of these would work. On Jun 5, 2008, at 5:57 PM, James M. Vergis wrote: Has anyone tried a 3D DLP-TV? They have the input for a stereographics emitter. Probably too big for a desktop but at 50-72 they would work in a conference room. They range in price from $1900-3500. Here is the link for the SAMSUNG website http://product.samsung.com/dlp3d/index.html. Mitsubishi also sells 3D TVs... I'm not sure about other manufacturers. I was at the National Association of Broadcasters meeting in Las Vegas this year (don't ask why) and I saw demonstrations of a lot of 3D television technology. Specifically, TDVision Systems, Inc. was demoing one of these Samsung 3D DLPs with a Star Wars III clip in HD. The 3D effect was pretty nice. As James mentioned, they were using an emitter shutter glass setup (which is an add-on product for a few extra $100). The reason that this is possible is the 120Hz technology now available in these HDTVs. I am very curious if the new 120Hz LCD HDTVs could also be used for stereo purposes. I am just not sure if they would accept and respect a 120Hz signal over VGA/DVI input. A 50 HDTV in a conference room doing 3D presentations would be pretty cool. This fall TDVision is also supposed to release a HD head mount display that can do 3D at 1280x768. This is significantly better than the 800x600 resolution of most HDMs. I do have to agree that 3D is a bit more of a novelty than actually being useful. Realspace refinement in coot has reduced the effectiveness of 3d stereo. That being said, if drivers are made for that ZM-220W or if 120Hz LCDs come to the desktop market, I will probably start using the stereo technology again. That's my 2.1 cents adjusted for inflation. Jeff Jeffrey Wilson, Ph.D. University of Cincinnati College of Medicine Molecular Genetics Department 231 Albert Sabin Way MSB 3109A Cincinnati, OH 45267-0524 (513) 558-4651
Re: [ccp4bb] 3D model building without CRT monitor
Philips is offering an interesting solution: http://www.business-sites.philips.com/3dsolutions/products/3dscreens/index.html Vangelis On Jun 2, 2008, at 2:10 PM, Krojer,Tobias wrote: Dear all, recently some of our CRT monitors broke down and we realized that these monitors are no longer produced. However, we would still like to continue model building in 3D which is apparently not possible with current TFT displays. Beside the possibility of getting old CRT monitors at ebay, I was wondering how other groups solved this problem. Thank you very much for suggestions! best wishes, Tobias Tobias Krojer, PhD IMP (Research Institute of Molecular Pathology) Dr. Bohr-Gasse 7 1030 Vienna Austria Tel.: +43-1-797303358 Fax.: +43-1-7987153
Re: [ccp4bb] 3D model building without CRT monitor
Vangelis Christodoulou wrote: Philips is offering an interesting solution: http://www.business-sites.philips.com/3dsolutions/products/3dscreens/index.htmlhttp://www.business-sites.philips.com/3dsolutions/products/3dscreens/index.html Interesting! Their PDF says it works with OpenGL: http://www.business-sites.philips.com/assets/Downloadablefile//2006-05-30-Technology-backgrounder-13560.pdf Does it mean it will work in Coot as is? Dima
Re: [ccp4bb] 3D model building without CRT monitor
Dima Klenchin wrote: Vangelis Christodoulou wrote: Philips is offering an interesting solution: http://www.business-sites.philips.com/3dsolutions/products/3dscreens/index.htmlhttp://www.business-sites.philips.com/3dsolutions/products/3dscreens/index.html Interesting! Their PDF says it works with OpenGL: http://www.business-sites.philips.com/assets/Downloadablefile//2006-05-30-Technology-backgrounder-13560.pdf Does it mean it will work in Coot as is? Dima If you don't mind the 12K price tag, maybe. Juergen -- Jürgen Bosch University of Washington Dept. of Biochemistry, K-426 1705 NE Pacific Street Seattle, WA 98195 Box 357742 Phone: +1-206-616-4510 FAX: +1-206-685-7002 Web: http://faculty.washington.edu/jbosch
Re: [ccp4bb] 3D model building without CRT monitor
There is a 20-inch (20-3D2W04) display that costs around $6000. For $13000 you get a 42-inch, so I guess the 52-inch that was introduced today will cost a lot. Vangelis On Jun 5, 2008, at 7:30 PM, Juergen Bosch wrote: Interesting! Their PDF says it works with OpenGL: http://www.business-sites.philips.com/assets/Downloadablefile//2006-05-30-Technology-backgrounder-13560.pdf Does it mean it will work in Coot as is? Dima If you don't mind the 12K price tag, maybe. Juergen -- Jürgen Bosch University of Washington Dept. of Biochemistry, K-426 1705 NE Pacific Street Seattle, WA 98195 Box 357742 Phone: +1-206-616-4510 FAX: +1-206-685-7002 Web: http://faculty.washington.edu/jbosch
Re: [ccp4bb] 3D model building without CRT monitor
We now have a Planar system, which works very nicely with coot, O , ccp4mg etc. Rather expensive though Phil Evans On 2 Jun 2008, at 17:06, Mike Latchem wrote: These new TFT monitors do seem like a really good idea, but, it is well worth doing in depth research as most of the accessible (Cheap) ones designed for gaming currently only operate with directX. As I understand it there are plans to make these work with openGL as well as directX so they should work with programs like coot etc. Just be careful and confirm with the people supplying the TFT that it will work with your software package of choice. P.S. a colleague of mine who is interested in tomography suggested the planar TFTs work well (they are also very expensive and bulky) - but be sure to confirm they work with your software of choice before paying for one http://www.planar3d.com/ Regards Mike On Mon, 2008-06-02 at 11:51 -0400, Jim Fairman wrote: Hello all, There is a new company around that makes a 3D capable 22 inch flat screen LCD monitor (http://www.iz3d.com) capable of a maximum resolution of 1680x1050. It is originally designed for the purpose of playing video games in 3D, but looks promising for ridding ourselves of the huge bulky CRTs. Cheers On Mon, Jun 2, 2008 at 11:08 AM, Warren DeLano [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: For used-stereo-3D-capable-CRT seekers, our stereo 3D page may be of some use. A number of target monitors are listed. http://pymol.sourceforge.net/stereo3d.html -Original Message- From: CCP4 bulletin board on behalf of Krojer,Tobias Sent: Mon 6/2/2008 5:24 AM To: CCP4BB@JISCMAIL.AC.UK Subject: [ccp4bb] 3D model building without CRT monitor Dear all, recently some of our CRT monitors broke down and we realized that these monitors are no longer produced. However, we would still like to continue model building in 3D which is apparently not possible with current TFT displays. Beside the possibility of getting old CRT monitors at ebay, I was wondering how other groups solved this problem. Thank you very much for suggestions! best wishes, Tobias Tobias Krojer, PhD IMP (Research Institute of Molecular Pathology) Dr. Bohr-Gasse 7 1030 Vienna Austria Tel.: +43-1-797303358 Fax.: +43-1-7987153 -- Jim Fairman Graduate Research Assistant Department of Biochemistry, Cellular, and Molecular Biology (BCMB) University of Tennessee -- Knoxville 216-368-3337 [EMAIL PROTECTED] [EMAIL PROTECTED] DIVFONT size=1 color=grayThis e-mail and any attachments may contain confidential, copyright and or privileged material, and are for the use of the intended addressee only. If you are not the intended addressee or an authorised recipient of the addressee please notify us of receipt by returning the e-mail and do not use, copy, retain, distribute or disclose the information in or attached to the e-mail. Any opinions expressed within this e-mail are those of the individual and not necessarily of Diamond Light Source Ltd. Diamond Light Source Ltd. cannot guarantee that this e-mail or any attachments are free from viruses and we cannot accept liability for any damage which you may sustain as a result of software viruses which may be transmitted in or with the message. Diamond Light Source Limited (company no. 4375679). Registered in England and Wales with its registered office at Diamond House, Harwell Science and Innovation Campus, Didcot, Oxfordshire, OX11 0DE, United Kingdom /FONT/DIV
Re: [ccp4bb] 3D model building without CRT monitor
Has anyone tried a 3D DLP-TV? They have the input for a stereographics emitter. Probably too big for a desktop but at 50-72 they would work in a conference room. They range in price from $1900-3500. Here is the link for the SAMSUNG website http://product.samsung.com/dlp3d/index.html. Mitsubishi also sells 3D TVs... I'm not sure about other manufacturers. James James M. Vergis, Ph.D. University of Virginia Molecular Physiology and Biological Physics MKWEINR 438 Jordan Hall 1340 Jefferson Park Ave Charlottesville, VA 22908-0736 phone: 434-243-2730 FAX: 434-982-1616 [EMAIL PROTECTED] -Original Message- From: CCP4 bulletin board [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Vangelis Christodoulou Sent: Thursday, June 05, 2008 2:02 PM To: CCP4BB@JISCMAIL.AC.UK Subject: Re: [ccp4bb] 3D model building without CRT monitor There is a 20-inch (20-3D2W04) display that costs around $6000. For $13000 you get a 42-inch, so I guess the 52-inch that was introduced today will cost a lot. Vangelis On Jun 5, 2008, at 7:30 PM, Juergen Bosch wrote: Interesting! Their PDF says it works with OpenGL: http://www.business-sites.philips.com/assets/Downloadablefile//2006-05-30-Te chnology-backgrounder-13560.pdf Does it mean it will work in Coot as is? Dima If you don't mind the 12K price tag, maybe. Juergen -- Jürgen Bosch University of Washington Dept. of Biochemistry, K-426 1705 NE Pacific Street Seattle, WA 98195 Box 357742 Phone: +1-206-616-4510 FAX: +1-206-685-7002 Web: http://faculty.washington.edu/jbosch
[ccp4bb] 3D model building without CRT monitor
Dear all, recently some of our CRT monitors broke down and we realized that these monitors are no longer produced. However, we would still like to continue model building in 3D which is apparently not possible with current TFT displays. Beside the possibility of getting old CRT monitors at ebay, I was wondering how other groups solved this problem. Thank you very much for suggestions! best wishes, Tobias Tobias Krojer, PhD IMP (Research Institute of Molecular Pathology) Dr. Bohr-Gasse 7 1030 Vienna Austria Tel.: +43-1-797303358 Fax.: +43-1-7987153
Re: [ccp4bb] 3D model building without CRT monitor
Hi Tobias, we bought good, refurbished 22'' CRT monitors at eBay. Make sure to get monitors that have a horizontal refresh rate of about 130 kHz (or even higher), since this is usually the bottleneck. You need a horizontal refresh rate of ~123.5 kHz to display a stereo image with 1280x960 pixels at 2x60Hz. Good luck, Dirk Kostrewa. Am 02.06.2008 um 14:10 schrieb Krojer,Tobias: Dear all, recently some of our CRT monitors broke down and we realized that these monitors are no longer produced. However, we would still like to continue model building in 3D which is apparently not possible with current TFT displays. Beside the possibility of getting old CRT monitors at ebay, I was wondering how other groups solved this problem. Thank you very much for suggestions! best wishes, Tobias Tobias Krojer, PhD IMP (Research Institute of Molecular Pathology) Dr. Bohr-Gasse 7 1030 Vienna Austria Tel.: +43-1-797303358 Fax.: +43-1-7987153 *** Dirk Kostrewa Gene Center, A 5.07 Ludwig-Maximilians-University Feodor-Lynen-Str. 25 81377 Munich Germany Phone: +49-89-2180-76845 Fax:+49-89-2180-76999 E-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] ***
Re: [ccp4bb] 3D model building without CRT monitor
Title: Message I've had good luck with refurbished monitors off the web. Just do a google search for a sun monitor (for example) and it should come up. Otherwise, go to pricewatch.com and search for crt monitors there. They may have some external case dents, but the monitors are usually crisp and last being on for at least 2-3 years. They are all refurbished monitors. Their cost is generally $30 for the monitor (or something ridiculously cheap) and then around $100 to ship (unfortunately). Not a bad overall price if you want stereo. I will say, I teach a class on crystallography to undergrad students. In the past I had SGI's, with dial boxes and stereo. When I switched to linux, I changed to coot, and away went the dial boxes (but I do still do stereo). In the past, students only used stereo and really liked the dial boxes. Now, with the graphics of coot and it's fitting algorithms, the real need for stereo was nothing more than an oddity, and so they did use stereo at times but it wasn't used as much. I do think stereo has a great purpose, especially in the education part and the final evaluation, but I'm not sure it's needed as much for the actual model building. Cheers Dave Krojer,Tobias wrote: Dear all, recently some of our CRT monitors broke down and we realized that these monitors are no longer produced. However, we would still like to continue model building in 3D which is apparently not possible with current TFT displays. Beside the possibility of getting old CRT monitors at ebay, I was wondering how other groups solved this problem. Thank you very much for suggestions! best wishes, Tobias Tobias Krojer, PhD IMP (Research Institute of Molecular Pathology) Dr. Bohr-Gasse 7 1030 Vienna Austria Tel.: +43-1-797303358 Fax.: +43-1-7987153
Re: [ccp4bb] 3D model building without CRT monitor
For used-stereo-3D-capable-CRT seekers, our stereo 3D page may be of some use. A number of target monitors are listed. http://pymol.sourceforge.net/stereo3d.html -Original Message- From: CCP4 bulletin board on behalf of Krojer,Tobias Sent: Mon 6/2/2008 5:24 AM To: CCP4BB@JISCMAIL.AC.UK Subject: [ccp4bb] 3D model building without CRT monitor Dear all, recently some of our CRT monitors broke down and we realized that these monitors are no longer produced. However, we would still like to continue model building in 3D which is apparently not possible with current TFT displays. Beside the possibility of getting old CRT monitors at ebay, I was wondering how other groups solved this problem. Thank you very much for suggestions! best wishes, Tobias Tobias Krojer, PhD IMP (Research Institute of Molecular Pathology) Dr. Bohr-Gasse 7 1030 Vienna Austria Tel.: +43-1-797303358 Fax.: +43-1-7987153
Re: [ccp4bb] 3D model building without CRT monitor
Hello all, There is a new company around that makes a 3D capable 22 inch flat screen LCD monitor (http://www.iz3d.com) capable of a maximum resolution of 1680x1050. It is originally designed for the purpose of playing video games in 3D, but looks promising for ridding ourselves of the huge bulky CRTs. Cheers On Mon, Jun 2, 2008 at 11:08 AM, Warren DeLano [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: For used-stereo-3D-capable-CRT seekers, our stereo 3D page may be of some use. A number of target monitors are listed. http://pymol.sourceforge.net/stereo3d.html -Original Message- From: CCP4 bulletin board on behalf of Krojer,Tobias Sent: Mon 6/2/2008 5:24 AM To: CCP4BB@JISCMAIL.AC.UK Subject: [ccp4bb] 3D model building without CRT monitor Dear all, recently some of our CRT monitors broke down and we realized that these monitors are no longer produced. However, we would still like to continue model building in 3D which is apparently not possible with current TFT displays. Beside the possibility of getting old CRT monitors at ebay, I was wondering how other groups solved this problem. Thank you very much for suggestions! best wishes, Tobias Tobias Krojer, PhD IMP (Research Institute of Molecular Pathology) Dr. Bohr-Gasse 7 1030 Vienna Austria Tel.: +43-1-797303358 Fax.: +43-1-7987153 -- Jim Fairman Graduate Research Assistant Department of Biochemistry, Cellular, and Molecular Biology (BCMB) University of Tennessee -- Knoxville 216-368-3337 [EMAIL PROTECTED] [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: [ccp4bb] 3D model building without CRT monitor
Hi, I bought myself a brand-new Viewsonic P227f crt less than a year ago (in France). So I suspected this item to be still available. But no longer!. I however found something that might still be of interest to you (http://www.viewsonic.com/products/crtmonitors/graphicseries/g90fB/). Seems to be the one and only crt from Viewsonic (but only 19). Cheers, Nadir -- Pr. Nadir T. Mrabet Cellular Molecular Biochemistry INSERM U-724 Nancy University, School of Medicine 9, Avenue de la Foret de Haye, BP 184 54505 Vandoeuvre-les-Nancy Cedex France Phone: +33 (0)3.83.68.32.73 Fax: +33 (0)3.83.68.32.79 E-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Cell.: +33 (0)6.11.35.69.09 Krojer,Tobias wrote: Dear all, recently some of our CRT monitors broke down and we realized that these monitors are no longer produced. However, we would still like to continue model building in 3D which is apparently not possible with current TFT displays. Beside the possibility of getting old CRT monitors at ebay, I was wondering how other groups solved this problem. Thank you very much for suggestions! best wishes, Tobias Tobias Krojer, PhD IMP (Research Institute of Molecular Pathology) Dr. Bohr-Gasse 7 1030 Vienna Austria Tel.: +43-1-797303358 Fax.: +43-1-7987153
