Re: PDP-11/44 w/ 2 RLxx drives for free pickup in San Antonio, TX

[Mark Linimon]

Of course I will go pick it up to prevent it from going to the dump,
if no one else will.  I am in Austin.

mcl

PDP-11/44 w/ 2 RLxx drives for free pickup in San Antonio, TX

[Mark J. Blair]

I got this comment on my blog today:

http://www.nf6x.net/2013/11/my-new-dec-pdp-1144-project/#comment-248370

"I have a 11/44. 2xrl drives. And misc extras. It is going in the dump in 2 
weeks… do you know anyone who wants it FREE? schematics and rsx 11 mnuals and a 
few unix things…
helotianm...@gmail.com
must pick up san antonio texas
pick up by 12-24-2016"


I would pick it up myself if I was local. Somebody grab it, please!

-- 
Mark J. Blair, NF6X 
http://www.nf6x.net/

Re: My last word on building computers!

[Jon Elson]

On 01/15/2016 11:25 PM, Fred Cisin wrote:
A guy in France built a 1/3 scale Ferarri roadster.  He 
made EVERYTHING
himself.  Dashboard instruments, tires, ignition coils 
and spark plugs,
and on and on.  I saw it at the NAMES show in 2004, I 
think. Totally

awesome.  And, it took him 12 years!


On Fri, 15 Jan 2016, ben wrote:

Smaller cars well never sell. :-)


That's why they never made another one.




Oh, and it is not a static model.  The engine runs (spewing 
clouds of run-in oil and making a HUGE noise.
If you prop up the rear end, you can go through the gears 
and spin the tires.


Jon

Re: My last word on building computers!

[Jon Elson]

On 01/15/2016 09:44 PM, ben wrote:

On 1/15/2016 6:59 PM, Jon Elson wrote:

A guy in France built a 1/3 scale Ferarri roadster.  He 
made EVERYTHING
himself.  Dashboard instruments, tires, ignition coils 
and spark plugs,
and on and on.  I saw it at the NAMES show in 2004, I 
think. Totally

awesome.  And, it took him 12 years!


Smaller cars well never sell. :-)
Right, he claims to have it on his mantelpiece!  (Must have 
a really big mantel!)


For the effort he went through, he could have built a 
full-size car and driven it!
While I can appreciate these incredible models, I don't 
quite "GET" the model building mania.


Jon

Re: My last word on building computers!

[Fred Cisin]

A guy in France built a 1/3 scale Ferarri roadster.  He made EVERYTHING
himself.  Dashboard instruments, tires, ignition coils and spark plugs,
and on and on.  I saw it at the NAMES show in 2004, I think.  Totally
awesome.  And, it took him 12 years!


On Fri, 15 Jan 2016, ben wrote:

Smaller cars well never sell. :-)


That's why they never made another one.

Re: Retrocomputing on StackExchange...

[Chuck Guzis]

On 01/15/2016 07:36 PM, Brent Hilpert wrote:


In Italy even:
http://www.ebay.it/itm/Vintage-Bunker-Ramo-Corp-Telequote-III-Display-Station-Assembly-549211-Manual-/161829917688

 I wonder if my modem may have been part of a Telequote
installation.


There wasn't a whole lot in the display units--mostly CRT electronics 
and some stuff for the buttons.   There was a control unit with the smarts.


Typically a brokerage would employ a leased line to drive these things.

--Chuck

Re: My last word on building computers!

[ben]

On 1/15/2016 6:59 PM, Jon Elson wrote:


A guy in France built a 1/3 scale Ferarri roadster.  He made EVERYTHING
himself.  Dashboard instruments, tires, ignition coils and spark plugs,
and on and on.  I saw it at the NAMES show in 2004, I think.  Totally
awesome.  And, it took him 12 years!


Smaller cars well never sell. :-)
Ben.

RE: Archiving CP/M 2.2 Source Code Programs to a PC (Fat or NTFS media)

[Robo58]

Hi Rich,

Thanks.  I look for it.

Robo

-Original Message-
From: cctalk [mailto:cctalk-boun...@classiccmp.org] On Behalf Of Rich Alderson
Sent: Friday, January 15, 2016 9:11 PM
To: 'General Discussion: On-Topic and Off-Topic Posts' 
Subject: RE: Archiving CP/M 2.2 Source Code Programs to a PC (Fat or NTFS media)

From: Robo58
Sent: Friday, January 15, 2016 3:06 PM

> Does PuTTy have any logging functions that would put whatever goes to 
> the screen into a disk file?  That way I could "Type" source file 
> after source file and then separate them later on the PC.

Yes.  In the configuration box that comes up when you start PuTTY, there is a 
sub-item under Session for Logging.

Rich


Rich Alderson
Vintage Computing Sr. Systems Engineer
Living Computer Museum
2245 1st Avenue S
Seattle, WA 98134

mailto:ri...@livingcomputermuseum.org

http://www.LivingComputerMuseum.org/

Re: Retrocomputing on StackExchange...

[Brent Hilpert]

On 2016-Jan-15, at 4:58 PM, Chuck Guzis wrote:
> On 01/15/2016 04:34 PM, Brent Hilpert wrote:
> 
>> I'm guessing: are you mentioning BR here in relation to stock
>> exchanges - were they a major supplier for stock exchange data
>> services?
> 
> Oh yes--look up "Telequote".  I think that CHM has a few bits as well.
> 
> A lot of caselaw was tied up in Telequote, but by the early 70s, nearly every 
> stockbroker had a TQ terminal on his desk.   BR was one of the first 
> companies I bought stock in--the future was very clear to me at the time.
> 
> I think most of the server gear for Telequote was IBM S/360 stuff, but I'm 
> not certain my memory is accurate.
> 
> Having a Telequote terminal would be akin to having a SABRE airline 
> reservation terminal from the 60s.

In Italy even:

http://www.ebay.it/itm/Vintage-Bunker-Ramo-Corp-Telequote-III-Display-Station-Assembly-549211-Manual-/161829917688

I wonder if my modem may have been part of a Telequote installation.

RE: Archiving CP/M 2.2 Source Code Programs to a PC (Fat or NTFS media)

[Rich Alderson]

From: Robo58
Sent: Friday, January 15, 2016 3:06 PM

> Does PuTTy have any logging functions that would put whatever goes to the
> screen into a disk file?  That way I could "Type" source file after source
> file and then separate them later on the PC.

Yes.  In the configuration box that comes up when you start PuTTY, there
is a sub-item under Session for Logging.

Rich


Rich Alderson
Vintage Computing Sr. Systems Engineer
Living Computer Museum
2245 1st Avenue S
Seattle, WA 98134

mailto:ri...@livingcomputermuseum.org

http://www.LivingComputerMuseum.org/

Re: My last word on building computers!

[Jon Elson]

On 01/15/2016 12:33 PM, Murray McCullough wrote:

I’m not sure to what degree one can/wish to build there own car. If
one puts their mind to it; then anything is possible. I’m sure this
applies only to die-hard builders and not representative of the
‘average’ guy/gal.
A guy in France built a 1/3 scale Ferarri roadster.  He made 
EVERYTHING himself.  Dashboard instruments, tires, ignition 
coils and spark plugs, and on and on.  I saw it at the NAMES 
show in 2004, I think.  Totally awesome.  And, it took him 
12 years!


Jon

Re: Retrocomputing on StackExchange...

[william degnan]

On Jan 15, 2016 7:58 PM, "Chuck Guzis"  wrote:
>
> On 01/15/2016 04:34 PM, Brent Hilpert wrote:
>
>> I'm guessing: are you mentioning BR here in relation to stock
>> exchanges - were they a major supplier for stock exchange data
>> services?
>
>
> Oh yes--look up "Telequote".  I think that CHM has a few bits as well.
>
> A lot of caselaw was tied up in Telequote, but by the early 70s, nearly
every stockbroker had a TQ terminal on his desk.   BR was one of the first
companies I bought stock in--the future was very clear to me at the time.
>
> I think most of the server gear for Telequote was IBM S/360 stuff, but
I'm not certain my memory is accurate.
>
> Having a Telequote terminal would be akin to having a SABRE airline
reservation terminal from the 60s.
>
> --Chuck
>
>
>
>

I have a stash of BR docs, for various systems from 1960s mostly.   BR is
not mentioned very often.
Bill

Re: Retrocomputing on StackExchange...

[Chuck Guzis]

On 01/15/2016 04:34 PM, Brent Hilpert wrote:


I'm guessing: are you mentioning BR here in relation to stock
exchanges - were they a major supplier for stock exchange data
services?


Oh yes--look up "Telequote".  I think that CHM has a few bits as well.

A lot of caselaw was tied up in Telequote, but by the early 70s, nearly 
every stockbroker had a TQ terminal on his desk.   BR was one of the 
first companies I bought stock in--the future was very clear to me at 
the time.


I think most of the server gear for Telequote was IBM S/360 stuff, but 
I'm not certain my memory is accurate.


Having a Telequote terminal would be akin to having a SABRE airline 
reservation terminal from the 60s.


--Chuck

Re: Retrocomputing on StackExchange...

[Ian S. King]

On Fri, Jan 15, 2016 at 4:34 PM, Brent Hilpert  wrote:

>
> On 2016-Jan-15, at 4:12 PM, Chuck Guzis wrote:
> > Ah, old eyes!
> >
> > I originally read the title of the thread as "Retrocomputing on Stock
> Excahange".
> >
> > So, does anyone collect Bunker-Ramo gear here?
> >
> > Just curious,
> > Chuck
>
>
> Well, collecting Bunker-Ramo stuff as an objective would be overstating
> it, but I have a 1960s Bunker-Ramo modem (Bell 202, half-duplex, 1200bps,
> discrete transistor, about the size of two toasters). Not much to do with
> it, as there is (or I have) nothing else to talk to it.
>
> I'm guessing: are you mentioning BR here in relation to stock exchanges -
> were they a major supplier for stock exchange data services?
>
>
Likewise, not a conscious collection but I do have a BR-2412.  It's a
pretty interesting machine, based on the Nuclear Data 812.  It lights up,
but doesn't respond to much.  I really want to dig into it - soon, soon.  I
even have some sample code for it, courtesy of the US Government!

I also have the peripheral interface unit, but I have NO data on that.

-- 
Ian S. King, MSIS, MSCS, Ph.D. Candidate
The Information School 
Dissertation: "Why the Conversation Mattered: Constructing a Sociotechnical
Narrative Through a Design Lens

Archivist, Voices From the Rwanda Tribunal 
Value Sensitive Design Research Lab 

University of Washington

There is an old Vulcan saying: "Only Nixon could go to China."

Re: Retrocomputing on StackExchange...

[Brent Hilpert]

On 2016-Jan-15, at 4:12 PM, Chuck Guzis wrote:
> Ah, old eyes!
> 
> I originally read the title of the thread as "Retrocomputing on Stock 
> Excahange".
> 
> So, does anyone collect Bunker-Ramo gear here?
> 
> Just curious,
> Chuck


Well, collecting Bunker-Ramo stuff as an objective would be overstating it, but 
I have a 1960s Bunker-Ramo modem (Bell 202, half-duplex, 1200bps, discrete 
transistor, about the size of two toasters). Not much to do with it, as there 
is (or I have) nothing else to talk to it.

I'm guessing: are you mentioning BR here in relation to stock exchanges - were 
they a major supplier for stock exchange data services?

RE: Archiving CP/M 2.2 Source Code Programs to a PC (Fat or NTFS media)

[Robo58]

Hi Chuck,

Thanks for the find.

I just downloaded it.  I'll try it next week.

Thank you "All" for the help.  You've covered all the bases for me :-)

Robo


-Original Message-
From: cctalk [mailto:cctalk-boun...@classiccmp.org] On Behalf Of Chuck Guzis
Sent: Friday, January 15, 2016 6:29 PM
To: General Discussion: On-Topic and Off-Topic Posts 
Subject: Re: Archiving CP/M 2.2 Source Code Programs to a PC (Fat or NTFS media)

Found a copy of GENHEX on bitsavers here:

ftp://ftp.uk.freesbie.org/sites/www.bitsavers.org/bits/Users_Groups/FOG/QX10/extracted/QX10.06/GENHEX.CPM

Just change the extension to .COM and you're good.

--Chuck

Re: Retrocomputing on StackExchange...

[Chuck Guzis]

Ah, old eyes!

I originally read the title of the thread as "Retrocomputing on Stock 
Excahange".


So, does anyone collect Bunker-Ramo gear here?

Just curious,
Chuck

Re: SGI Fuel P/S ::WAS:::::::Re: For you SGI fans...

[pdaguytom .]

The Fuel PS can be swapped for its PC counter part.  Wonder over to
Nekochan.net and search for Fuel Power supply, there is a lot of info on
this.  The p1 connector has to be resorted and the replacement PS has to
have the fan monitoring and  that signal has to be adjusted to what L1
expects.  The motherboard has several environment monitoring ICs that, on
the early revisions, go bad and keeps the computer from starting.  These
ICs are/were available for the brave hearted to attempt the repair.  The
later motherboards apparently don't suffer from the enviro monitoring
failures as often.  Nekochan is a great resource, it was invaluable for me
when I was building my Fuel.

Tom

On Friday, January 15, 2016, Jerry Kemp  wrote:

> Thanks for the comments.
>
> All this SGI discussion has me wanting to go out and hunt down a Fuel even
> more.
>
> It sounds like I need to focus on finding one with a rev-4 or better power
> supply.
>
> Its been some time since I have personally done any soldering.
>
> There's got to be some place, for a fee, that knows about and can repair
> SGI power supplies.
>
> Jerry
>
>
> On 01/15/16 03:26 PM, Mazzini Alessandro wrote:
>
>> Sadly yes, there's a known issue with psu in fuels. I have one that went
>> kaboom after 20 minutes and lies waiting for a psu since months (and will
>> lie that way, I guess. I'm looking at it in a sad way near daily...).
>>
>> Long story short, Fuel psu were made by 3 different brands, and each of
>> them
>> had ... longevity issues... in what we could say being revision 1 to 3.
>>
>>> From 4 upward (and if I'm mistaken , at worst was from 3 upward) they
>>> tend
>>>
>> to be resistant.
>>
>> Exploding issues aside, those psu are not standard and have a chip doing
>> some mumbo jumbo inside (all lines are monitored, by example). That chip
>> can
>> .. erase itself... ( in the upper mentioned revisions, for sure ). There
>> are
>> no known dumps of the chip firmware.
>>
>>

Re: Archiving CP/M 2.2 Source Code Programs to a PC (Fat or NTFS media)

[Chuck Guzis]

Found a copy of GENHEX on bitsavers here:

ftp://ftp.uk.freesbie.org/sites/www.bitsavers.org/bits/Users_Groups/FOG/QX10/extracted/QX10.06/GENHEX.CPM

Just change the extension to .COM and you're good.

--Chuck

RE: Retrocomputing on StackExchange...

[Dave Wade]

> -Original Message-
> From: cctech [mailto:cctech-boun...@classiccmp.org] On Behalf Of Charles
> Anthony
> Sent: 15 January 2016 16:58
> To: General Discussion: On-Topic Posts 
> Subject: Re: Retrocomputing on StackExchange...
> 
> On Fri, Jan 15, 2016 at 7:22 AM, geneb  wrote:
> 
> > On Fri, 15 Jan 2016, David Brownlee wrote:
> >
> > On 15 January 2016 at 13:50, geneb  wrote:
> >>
> >>>
> >>> http://area51.stackexchange.com/proposals/94441/retro-computing
> >>>
> >>> I think this is actually a pretty good idea and StackExchange is a
> >>> great platform.
> >>>
> >>> As of right now it needs 11 more people following it (and more
> >>> questions).
> >>>
> >>
> >> It might be good to adjust it to include more than just "micro"
> >> computers...
> >>
> >> Good idea, but it's not up to me - I didn't create the proposed SE
> > section. :)
> >
> >
> Interesting. But it is a bit of a mystery to me. I went to the site, created 
> an
> account, logged in, "followed" the retro-computing discussion, searched in
> vain for the "discuss proposed discussion" button, tried the general 'ask a
> question' tab, but it seems to believe that I am not logged in.
> 
> I happily participate in a retro-computing discussions, but my knowledge
> base is mainframe computing, so between the alienation in the discussion
> definition, and the site's apparent inability to let me discuss that 
> alienation
> with the creators, it looks like Area51 is non-starter for me.
> 
> -- Charles
> >

Whats wrong with the existing Vintage Computing Forums. To me its yet another 
place to have to go and look and so disappating expertise in many other places..

Dave

Re: Retrocomputing on StackExchange...

[Charles Anthony]

On Fri, Jan 15, 2016 at 7:22 AM, geneb  wrote:

> On Fri, 15 Jan 2016, David Brownlee wrote:
>
> On 15 January 2016 at 13:50, geneb  wrote:
>>
>>>
>>> http://area51.stackexchange.com/proposals/94441/retro-computing
>>>
>>> I think this is actually a pretty good idea and StackExchange is a great
>>> platform.
>>>
>>> As of right now it needs 11 more people following it (and more
>>> questions).
>>>
>>
>> It might be good to adjust it to include more than just "micro"
>> computers...
>>
>> Good idea, but it's not up to me - I didn't create the proposed SE
> section. :)
>
>
Interesting. But it is a bit of a mystery to me. I went to the site,
created an account, logged in, "followed" the retro-computing discussion,
searched in vain for the "discuss proposed discussion" button, tried the
general 'ask a question' tab, but it seems to believe that I am not logged
in.

I happily participate in a retro-computing discussions, but my knowledge
base is mainframe computing, so between the alienation in the discussion
definition, and the site's apparent inability to let me discuss that
alienation with the creators, it looks like Area51 is non-starter for me.

-- Charles



>

Re: Archiving CP/M 2.2 Source Code Programs to a PC (Fat or NTFS

[Freek Heite]

From: Robo58 

I'm looking for suggestions on how to move it to the PC environment.


IF your CP/M machine has a serial interface, I would connect it to a serial 
interface on your PC.


Then use programs/protocols like 
kermit/xmodem/ymodem/zmodem/procomm/telix/hyperterminal to copy your CP/M 
files to your PC. Which one to use, depends on what software you have 
available on your CP/M system. On the PC side, you'll probably always be 
able to find a corresponding program.


Have fun,
Freek. 

Re: Archiving CP/M 2.2 Source Code Programs to a PC (Fat or NTFS media)

[Chuck Guzis]

On 01/15/2016 03:06 PM, Robo58 wrote:


Was/is there a way to convert "Com" files to the Intel checksum
format on CP/M 2.2 systems ?


Yes, you want the "GENHEX" utility.  It was a standard part of MP/M and 
will run on CP/M, but it's probably floating around on the SIG/M archive 
as well.  Gaby's site (z80.de) certainly has a copy of MP/M.


If you can't find it, shoot me a note and I'll email you a copy.

--Chuck

RE: Archiving CP/M 2.2 Source Code Programs to a PC (Fat or NTFS media)

[Robo58]

Hi Folks,

Thank you all for the suggestions and feedback.  I appreciate your help 
clearing my cobwebs.

Let me answer a few of the questions that were asked.

Both CP/M systems have serial ports so I'm good there.

I likely have 50 pin to 34 pin floppy conversion cables as over time we moved 
away from the 8" drives to 5.25" and then 3.5"

I used PuTTy a long time ago but it should come right back to me.  If I 
remember it correctly it has a large screen buffer that I can paste to the clip 
board and then save the resulting source code.  

Does PuTTy have any logging functions that would put whatever goes to the 
screen into a disk file?  That way I could "Type" source file after source file 
and then separate them later on the PC.

Now that you've given me a way to get my source, how would you suggest getting 
binaries?   I do remember the Intel checksum format, and it is all ascii so if 
I could convert the binaries to that format I could capture them the same way 
as the source files.

Was/is there a way to convert "Com" files to the Intel checksum format on CP/M 
2.2 systems ?

Thanks
Robo

Re: SGI Fuel P/S ::WAS:::::::Re: For you SGI fans...

[Ian S. King]

On Fri, Jan 15, 2016 at 2:52 PM, Jerry Kemp  wrote:

> Thanks for the comments.
>
> All this SGI discussion has me wanting to go out and hunt down a Fuel even
> more.
>
> It sounds like I need to focus on finding one with a rev-4 or better power
> supply.
>
> Its been some time since I have personally done any soldering.
>
> There's got to be some place, for a fee, that knows about and can repair
> SGI power supplies.
>
> Jerry
>
>
>
That's it - I gotta fire up my Octane this weekend.  And dig into that
treasure trove of ISOs

-- 
Ian S. King, MSIS, MSCS, Ph.D. Candidate
The Information School 
Dissertation: "Why the Conversation Mattered: Constructing a Sociotechnical
Narrative Through a Design Lens

Archivist, Voices From the Rwanda Tribunal 
Value Sensitive Design Research Lab 

University of Washington

There is an old Vulcan saying: "Only Nixon could go to China."

Re: Archiving CP/M 2.2 Source Code Programs to a PC (Fat or NTFS media)

[Chuck Guzis]

On 01/15/2016 02:00 PM, Eric Smith wrote:

On Jan 15, 2016 8:32 AM, "Robo58"  wrote:

The 8" SD diskettes are standard IBM format (I believe 3740
physical format) 26 sectors.


Almost all SD 8 inch use that physical format, though there are some
oddball formats like OSI.

Similarly almost all 8 inch SD CP/M disks use the same logical
(filesystem) format, because that was THE standard for CP/M
interchamge.


I attribute that to the lack of user low-level formatting software.

In general, they do follow the A1 format, but there were a couple, such 
as the HP 125 to ruin your day.  Once you migrate to MFM, standard 
formats simply don't exist.  Even IBM had several different MFM 8" formats.


No one's touched on hard-sector formats, which could really get bizarre, 
such as the Zilog MCZ format with 132-byte sectors.  Or clever things 
like RX02 and "weird MFM" or various GCR schemes (e.g. Future Data). 
Fortunately, few hobbyists run into those.


--Chuck

SGI Fuel P/S ::WAS:::::::Re: For you SGI fans...

[Jerry Kemp]

Thanks for the comments.

All this SGI discussion has me wanting to go out and hunt down a Fuel even more.

It sounds like I need to focus on finding one with a rev-4 or better power 
supply.

Its been some time since I have personally done any soldering.

There's got to be some place, for a fee, that knows about and can repair SGI 
power supplies.


Jerry


On 01/15/16 03:26 PM, Mazzini Alessandro wrote:

Sadly yes, there's a known issue with psu in fuels. I have one that went
kaboom after 20 minutes and lies waiting for a psu since months (and will
lie that way, I guess. I'm looking at it in a sad way near daily...).

Long story short, Fuel psu were made by 3 different brands, and each of them
had ... longevity issues... in what we could say being revision 1 to 3.

From 4 upward (and if I'm mistaken , at worst was from 3 upward) they tend

to be resistant.

Exploding issues aside, those psu are not standard and have a chip doing
some mumbo jumbo inside (all lines are monitored, by example). That chip can
.. erase itself... ( in the upper mentioned revisions, for sure ). There are
no known dumps of the chip firmware.

Re: My last word on building computers!

[Brent Hilpert]

On 2016-Jan-15, at 10:33 AM, Murray McCullough wrote:
> ...
> My friend’s grandson,
> he’s 7, told me the computer is a tool for getting ahead not for
> looking back. Yikes!

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PF7EpEnglgk

"Where's the mouse?"

"Error? This computer IS an error"

"That was, like, the peak of technology. Now it seems, um . . kind of worthless"

Re: Archiving CP/M 2.2 Source Code Programs to a PC (Fat or NTFS media)

[william degnan]

CP/M disks, - if they're soft sectored - are just about the easiest non PC
DOS format to image assuming you have the right set up.  It takes me 20
seconds per disk with Dunfield's utility.

I use a DBIT 50/34 pin adapter to convert a the 8" 50pin disk cable to a
34-pin 5 1/4" cable.  With this adapter- it's super fast.  You want a DD 8"
drive  like the 850, but if you created the disks on an 801 you should be
able to use it to image the disks to the modern PC.

DBIT: Source for 8" drive adapter to work on a newer drive controller:
http://www.dbit.com/fdadap.html

If you want, send the disks to me as I have everything set up here.
Contact me directly if you need assistance.   Every vintage computerian
ideally should have some sort of disk imaging station set up but if you
don't I or others here with such systems are probably happy to help.


-- 
-Bill-

RE: Archiving CP/M 2.2 Source Code Programs to a PC (Fat or NTFS media)

[Eric Smith]

On Jan 15, 2016 8:32 AM, "Robo58"  wrote:
> The 8" SD diskettes are standard IBM format (I
> believe 3740 physical format) 26 sectors.

Almost all SD 8 inch use that physical format, though there are some
oddball formats like OSI.

Similarly almost all 8 inch SD CP/M disks use the same logical (filesystem)
format, because that was THE standard for CP/M interchamge.

>  I believe the  8" DD follows the
> same 3740 physical format

3740 is specifically SD. By definition, DD *must* be a different physical
format. In most cases, DD uses IBM System/34 format, though as with SD
there are some oddballs. The big problem is that there is no standard for
CP/M logical format on DD (or a zillion "standards", depending on your
definition).

Usually when I've been faced with an unknown CP/M format, I've figured it
out "by hand" using a sector editor, because back then I didn't have any of
the fancy interchange programs that were sold.

R: For you SGI fans...

[Mazzini Alessandro]

Sadly yes, there's a known issue with psu in fuels. I have one that went
kaboom after 20 minutes and lies waiting for a psu since months (and will
lie that way, I guess. I'm looking at it in a sad way near daily...).

Long story short, Fuel psu were made by 3 different brands, and each of them
had ... longevity issues... in what we could say being revision 1 to 3.
>From 4 upward (and if I'm mistaken , at worst was from 3 upward) they tend
to be resistant.

Exploding issues aside, those psu are not standard and have a chip doing
some mumbo jumbo inside (all lines are monitored, by example). That chip can
.. erase itself... ( in the upper mentioned revisions, for sure ). There are
no known dumps of the chip firmware.

-Messaggio originale-
Da: cctalk [mailto:cctalk-boun...@classiccmp.org] Per conto di et...@757.org
Inviato: venerdì 15 gennaio 2016 19:11
A: General Discussion: On-Topic and Off-Topic Posts
Cc: gene...@classiccmp.org; discuss...@classiccmp.org
Oggetto: Re: For you SGI fans...

> Hello Jay,
> Regarding the simulated SCSI disk, hoping you can explain further.
> The last time I had an IRIX based workstation on my desk was in 2007, 
> and all this SGI discussion has me wanting to go and hunt down a Fuel.
> Curious how the simulated disk thing works.
> Thank you,
> Jerry

My coworker has a Fuel sitting on his desk here, I'm staring at it. There is
some sort of failure with mobo or power supply. He has a spare motherboard
for it, but I think he said it's PSU. Prob caps, is there a known issue with
them?

Also, I used nfs to get to ISO data of IRIX 6.5.2x updates for my Octane and
it worked fine. Flashbacks to my days as a sysad @ NASA in IRIX land, and as
a huge SGI fanboy...

https://users.757.org/~ethan/pics/office/13/Image02.jpg
96proc, 64GB, 7TB, 2.something million dollars

https://users.757.org/~ethan/pics/office/13/Image15.jpg
o2k, my favorite...

https://users.757.org/~ethan/pics/office/13/Image20.jpg
Petabytes in the background, in 2001 or so.




  --
Ethan O'Toole

Re: Building a PC - then & now

[geneb]

On Fri, 15 Jan 2016, John Robertson wrote:

I built one of the Heathkit colour TVs in time to watch the moon landings. I 
was 18 and built in one day (and night) and it worked from the first turn on. 
Lasted over twenty years as the main house set only needing service every few 
years until the picture tube gave out finally.



If you're astronomically bored, check this out:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0P1HMJOV0qA&list=PLEENdRyj_RZb7hgF_88AoF1yQEPvTqkiC

I finished the build over the holiday break.

g.

--
Proud owner of F-15C 80-0007
http://www.f15sim.com - The only one of its kind.
http://www.diy-cockpits.org/coll - Go Collimated or Go Home.
Some people collect things for a hobby.  Geeks collect hobbies.

ScarletDME - The red hot Data Management Environment
A Multi-Value database for the masses, not the classes.
http://scarlet.deltasoft.com - Get it _today_!

RE: Archiving CP/M 2.2 Source Code Programs to a PC (Fat or NTFS media)

[Fred Cisin]

On Fri, 15 Jan 2016, Steven Hirsch wrote:
The simplest approach (as suggested by Fred) would be to use 22Disk to simply 
read files out of the CP/M filesystem.  If you are dealing with a 
non-standard format that is not in the default database, you would need to 
purchase a registered copy that has tools for building new definitions.
Alternately, you can use ImageDisk to capture an IMD file, then convert to a 
sector image with the accompanying IMDU utility.  From there, use 'cpmtools' 
under Linux to read out the files. It is relatively straightforward to define 
new disk formats for cpmtools, although you will certainly have some 
experimentation ahead of you.


Start with STAT DSK:  on the CP/M machine
That will give you some of what you need.
Examining sector contents is needed to determine sector sequence, 
interleave, skew, and "side pattern".
Then, of course, there are surprisingly many other oddball weirdities, 
such as inverted bits, altered/non-standard/invalid sector headers, etc.



But, if the machine is still functional, you can transfer everything to 
SSSD "CP/M Standard", which is widely supported.


--
Grumpy Ol' Fred ci...@xenosoft.com

Re: USO (Unidentified System Unit)

[Henk Gooijen]

-Oorspronkelijk bericht- 
From: Rod Smallwood

Sent: Monday, January 11, 2016 6:46 PM
To: General Discussion: On-Topic and Off-Topic Posts
Subject: Re: USO (Unidentified System Unit)

On 11/01/2016 17:33, Henk Gooijen wrote:
I am pretty sure it is DEC made. Another manufacturer would surely  > have 
sticked labeling from themselves on it ;-) Viewed from the rear side 
(looking at the module handles), the right side panel has no id labeling. 
The left side panel might have one, but that side is >

completely covered by a H??? power supply (forgot to write down the H >
number). I will check next Saturday. > > Thanks, - Henk > > >
-Oorspronkelijk bericht- From: Jay Jaeger Sent: Monday, >
January 11, 2016 6:25 PM To: cctalk@classiccmp.org Subject: Re: USO >
(Unidentified System Unit) > > If it is DEC, and they haven't fallen
off, then on the side panels > on one side or the other of the rows
connectors there may be some > identification? > > JRJ > > On 1/10/2016
11:31 AM, Noel Chiappa wrote: >>> From: Henk Gooijen >> >>> I could not
find the M5950 nor M3020 in any module list. >> >> The M3020 (and M1131)
are variants of the M302 (and M113, >> respectively), so I don't think
those are much of a clue. The M5950 >> I couldn't find anything about at
all, but the M595 is a current >> mode converter for the DF11 - which I
can't find much about, >> although it's in the '73-'74 Peripheral
Handbook - but that looks >> distinctly like a possibility, from the
pictures there. >> >> Noel >>

DEC had a product line called  Components Group. You could buy almost
any DEC part and build what ever you wanted with it.

There was also CSS or Computer Special Systems. They did bespoke systems
and of course used standard parts where they could.

Rod

-
I know. I have a few CSS goodies and CSS documentation.
I will go to my "Hall of Famous Iron" tomorrow and try to have a better
look at that small rack-mounted backplane.

- Henk

RE: Archiving CP/M 2.2 Source Code Programs to a PC (Fat or NTFS media)

[Steven Hirsch]

On Fri, 15 Jan 2016, Robo58 wrote:

Assume that I can get an old PC and connect it up how would an "image a 
disk" program work?  Does it have knowledge of the CP/M files system and 
can read the directory and grab the files?  Would the program also be 
able to write to the PC's file system to complete the archive?


The simplest approach (as suggested by Fred) would be to use 22Disk to 
simply read files out of the CP/M filesystem.  If you are dealing with a 
non-standard format that is not in the default database, you would need to 
purchase a registered copy that has tools for building new definitions.


Alternately, you can use ImageDisk to capture an IMD file, then convert to 
a sector image with the accompanying IMDU utility.  From there, use 
'cpmtools' under Linux to read out the files. It is relatively 
straightforward to define new disk formats for cpmtools, although you will 
certainly have some experimentation ahead of you.




--

Re: Archiving CP/M 2.2 Source Code Programs to a PC

[mark]

From: Jon Elson 


Got a console serial port on the CP/M system?  You should be
able to use a program like Kermit to suck up the files.


Something like this was going to be my suggestion, too.  The original 
request was to archive the source files, not the disks themselves. 
Virtually every modem-type program (MODEM7, for example) has at least 
XModem, and of course there are tons of options for the PC end (PuTTY seems 
to be a popular choice).


Hopefully there's some serial port in the system, even if it's not the 
console.  And you do remember how to write 8080 code and make CP/M calls, 
right?  Worst case, since it's "Source" you're trying to archive, would be 
to write a simple program that just reads a file and blurts it out the 
serial port, with no handshaking at all.  Running a serial capture on the PC 
would probably have very few, if any, errors.

~~
Mark Moulding

Re: My last word on building computers!

[Paul Koning]

> On Jan 15, 2016, at 1:56 PM, Ian S. King  wrote:
> 
> A number of years ago, I read an interesting book titled "Buehler's
> Backyard Boatbuilding".  In the front matter, the author decried the
> decrease in DIY, whether that was fixing your own car or (his topic)
> building your own boat.  For the author, it was a clear sign of the
> intellectual apocalypse.
> 
> When I was an undergrad, my roommate built his own guitar, performing all
> the bending, shaping and glueing.  It took a long time.  He could easily
> have purchased one with the money he would have earned in the same hours -
> at minimum wage.
> 
> So I think this is in fact a broad theme that touches on values such as
> independence and pride in one's skills and abilities - and for some,
> curiosity (*can* I do this thing or that?).  Individuality is another value
> I see expressed (less and less) in the motorcycle community - time was when
> the phrase "stock Harley" was an oxymoron.  (And don't get me started about
> the stupid phrase, "factory custom".)

We tinker with old computers because it is fun, educational, challenging ... 
not because they are the best tool to solve today's computation tasks.  
Similarly, others tinker with electronics, do metalworking in their basement, 
build guns from scratch -- for very similar reasons.

Yes, you can buy a guitar rather than build one.  That assumes you can earn 
enough spare cash to afford one.  There's a very famous set of books about how 
to build metalworking machinery (lathe, mill, etc.) from scrap aluminum, cast 
in your back yard using charcoal for heat.  The author, according to his 
comments in the book, did this mostly because he didn't have enough money to 
spare on already-built machines.  A similar story is in "South Sea Vagabonds" 
whose author lost his job, so he used the time to build an oceangoing sailboat 
in his parent's front yard, from driftwood and scrap metal.

For a lot of people it's not money but the challenge of making your own.  
Sometimes it's the challenge of solving a problem in an odd way.  For example, 
building a boat of concrete (or a lathe).  Or, as one of my father's classmates 
did, building a working bassoon by telescoping a roll of kraft paper adhesive 
tape.  

paul

Re: Building a PC - then & now

[John Robertson]

On 01/13/2016 4:54 PM, Chuck Guzis wrote:

On 01/13/2016 03:27 PM, William Donzelli wrote:


In the old days, the shitty kit TVs would have continuous tuners.


In prewar days, it seems that there more than a couple of offerings. 
Didn't Meissner(they of the "Signal Shifter" VFO) offer a kit TV in 
the 30s/early 40s?  I do remember the continuous tuners, though--two 
bands--and one could even tune Channel 1.


A large number of Heathkit color TVs were built by vets using funding 
from the GI bill.  Those were Heath's good days...


--Chuck




I built one of the Heathkit colour TVs in time to watch the moon 
landings. I was 18 and built in one day (and night) and it worked from 
the first turn on. Lasted over twenty years as the main house set only 
needing service every few years until the picture tube gave out finally.


John :-#)#

--
John's Jukes Ltd. 2343 Main St., Vancouver, BC, Canada V5T 3C9
Call (604)872-5757 or Fax 872-2010 (Pinballs, Jukes, VideoGames)
 www.flippers.com
"Old pinballers never die, they just flip out"

Re: My last word on building computers!

[Ian S. King]

A number of years ago, I read an interesting book titled "Buehler's
Backyard Boatbuilding".  In the front matter, the author decried the
decrease in DIY, whether that was fixing your own car or (his topic)
building your own boat.  For the author, it was a clear sign of the
intellectual apocalypse.

When I was an undergrad, my roommate built his own guitar, performing all
the bending, shaping and glueing.  It took a long time.  He could easily
have purchased one with the money he would have earned in the same hours -
at minimum wage.

So I think this is in fact a broad theme that touches on values such as
independence and pride in one's skills and abilities - and for some,
curiosity (*can* I do this thing or that?).  Individuality is another value
I see expressed (less and less) in the motorcycle community - time was when
the phrase "stock Harley" was an oxymoron.  (And don't get me started about
the stupid phrase, "factory custom".)

And smack that kid!  :-)

On Fri, Jan 15, 2016 at 10:33 AM, Murray McCullough <
c.murray.mccullo...@gmail.com> wrote:

> I’m not sure to what degree one can/wish to build there own car. If
> one puts their mind to it; then anything is possible. I’m sure this
> applies only to die-hard builders and not representative of the
> ‘average’ guy/gal. One, and I may be stereotyping here, does not have
> the time to build much of anything is this hurried world we inhabit. I
> know this website caters to the experimenter/hobbyist in the computing
> world but I wonder how many of us have the time/inclination to build
> an old machine. I recently tried to revive my Coleco ADAM but couldn’t
> find old capacitors/transformers – maybe in America they’re available!
> (I could run an emulator on my PC/Mac but to what end? It’s definitely
> not the same as running the real thing is it?) As for new machines I
> guess there are builders /programmers of Raspberry Pi’s but they have
> a limited use for power users and for ‘old’ computer aficionados of
> classic computing era! Do young people want to do this? They may be
> computer savvy but I don’t think too many have an interest in building
> anything, particularly from the vintage era. My friend’s grandson,
> he’s 7, told me the computer is a tool for getting ahead not for
> looking back. Yikes!
>
> Happy computing!
>
> Murray  :)
>



-- 
Ian S. King, MSIS, MSCS, Ph.D. Candidate
The Information School 
Dissertation: "Why the Conversation Mattered: Constructing a Sociotechnical
Narrative Through a Design Lens

Archivist, Voices From the Rwanda Tribunal 
Value Sensitive Design Research Lab 

University of Washington

There is an old Vulcan saying: "Only Nixon could go to China."

My last word on building computers!

[Murray McCullough]

I’m not sure to what degree one can/wish to build there own car. If
one puts their mind to it; then anything is possible. I’m sure this
applies only to die-hard builders and not representative of the
‘average’ guy/gal. One, and I may be stereotyping here, does not have
the time to build much of anything is this hurried world we inhabit. I
know this website caters to the experimenter/hobbyist in the computing
world but I wonder how many of us have the time/inclination to build
an old machine. I recently tried to revive my Coleco ADAM but couldn’t
find old capacitors/transformers – maybe in America they’re available!
(I could run an emulator on my PC/Mac but to what end? It’s definitely
not the same as running the real thing is it?) As for new machines I
guess there are builders /programmers of Raspberry Pi’s but they have
a limited use for power users and for ‘old’ computer aficionados of
classic computing era! Do young people want to do this? They may be
computer savvy but I don’t think too many have an interest in building
anything, particularly from the vintage era. My friend’s grandson,
he’s 7, told me the computer is a tool for getting ahead not for
looking back. Yikes!

Happy computing!

Murray  :)

Re: For you SGI fans...

[ethan]

Hello Jay,
Regarding the simulated SCSI disk, hoping you can explain further.
The last time I had an IRIX based workstation on my desk was in 2007, and all 
this SGI discussion has me wanting to go and hunt down a Fuel.

Curious how the simulated disk thing works.
Thank you,
Jerry


My coworker has a Fuel sitting on his desk here, I'm staring at it. There 
is some sort of failure with mobo or power supply. He has a spare 
motherboard for it, but I think he said it's PSU. Prob caps, is there a 
known issue with them?


Also, I used nfs to get to ISO data of IRIX 6.5.2x updates for my Octane 
and it worked fine. Flashbacks to my days as a sysad @ NASA in IRIX land, 
and as a huge SGI fanboy...


https://users.757.org/~ethan/pics/office/13/Image02.jpg
96proc, 64GB, 7TB, 2.something million dollars

https://users.757.org/~ethan/pics/office/13/Image15.jpg
o2k, my favorite...

https://users.757.org/~ethan/pics/office/13/Image20.jpg
Petabytes in the background, in 2001 or so.




 --
Ethan O'Toole

RE: Archiving CP/M 2.2 Source Code Programs to a PC (Fat or NTFS media)

[Fred Cisin]

On Fri, 15 Jan 2016, Robo58 wrote:
I'm a little rusty on the older PC's.  So when you say that 386 to 
PIII's could read an 8" floppy, would those PC's have SD floppy 
controllers?


Some (such as 37c65 based FDCs) do, some don't.  Dave Dunfield made a test 
program, to help identify them.


If the FDC can't do FM (SD), then either you need to use a different one, 
or a flux transition product, such as CatWeasel.


Assume that I can get an old PC and connect it up how would an "image a 
disk" program work?  Does it have knowledge of the CP/M files system and 
can read the directory and grab the files?  Would the program also be 
able to write to the PC's file system to complete the archive?


No, it does not know the file system.
Instead, THAT part of the process is consists of copying all of the 
sectors of the disk to a file.



What "image a disk" programs would suggest?

ImageDisk, but others may have different preferences.

My personal preference is to use a program that DOES know the file system, 
and transfers FILES.  Such as XenoCopy (no longer available) or 22Disk.  I 
don't think that Uniform supported any 8" or HD formats.
But, those are set for specific formats (selected from a menu), and won't 
help for a format that doesn't have the same parameters as any that they 
include.
STAT DSK:   (run on the CP/M system) will give you some of the parameters 
that you need.


But, if you use a disk imaging program, you may be able to find something 
that can work with the file system, working from the image file, or write 
your own.



Another alternative is, of course, to do serial port transfers.  I prefer 
XMODEM, but some folk like Kermit.



--
Grumpy Ol' Fred ci...@xenosoft.com

Re: Archiving CP/M 2.2 Source Code Programs to a PC (Fat or NTFS media)

[Mike Stein]

A good place to start:

http://www.classiccmp.org/dunfield/img/index.htm

m
- Original Message - 
From: "Robo58" 
To: "'General Discussion: On-Topic and Off-Topic Posts'" 
Sent: Friday, January 15, 2016 12:14 PM
Subject: RE: Archiving CP/M 2.2 Source Code Programs to a PC (Fat or NTFS media)


> Hi Bill,
> 
> Thanks for the reply.  Yes,  I have an 8" Shugart 800/801 and one or two 
> 5.25".
> 
> I'm a little rusty on the older PC's.  So when you say that 386 to PIII's 
> could read an 8" floppy, would those PC's have SD floppy controllers?
> 
> I did a quick look and the link for the Catweasel 
> (http://www.jschoenfeld.com/products/catweasel_e.htm) and the website no 
> longer operational.
> 
> Assume that I can get an old PC and connect it up how would an "image a disk" 
> program work?  Does it have knowledge of the CP/M files system and can read 
> the directory and grab the files?  Would the program also be able to write to 
> the PC's file system to complete the archive?
> 
> What "image a disk" programs would suggest?
> 
> Thank you
> Robo
> 
> 
> 
> -Original Message-
> From: cctalk [mailto:cctalk-boun...@classiccmp.org] On Behalf Of william 
> degnan
> Sent: Friday, January 15, 2016 10:40 AM
> To: General Discussion: On-Topic and Off-Topic Posts 
> Subject: Re: Archiving CP/M 2.2 Source Code Programs to a PC (Fat or NTFS 
> media)
> 
> do you have a working 8" drive?  You can attach to a PC from the 386 through 
> to Pentium III as a "HD 5 1/4" drive.  That's what I do.  You need the DBIT 
> 50/34 adapter and image an disk program.  You can usually for CP/M disks just 
> use the motherboard's built-in disk drive controller, but I also have a 
> Catweasel if I need it for more exotic formats.  CP/M disks are very 
> readable, any format I have ever encountered on SS disks has been no problem, 
> assuming the disk itself is ok.
> 
> Here is a thread from my web site that describes the process, as I 
> accomplished it.  There is more than one way to skin this cat, there is also 
> a link within the thread with a downloadable how-to guide from VCF East 9.
> 
> http://vintagecomputer.net/browse_thread.cfm?id=561
> 
> Bill
> 
> 
> 
>

Re: Archiving CP/M 2.2 Source Code Programs to a PC (Fat or NTFS media)

[Jon Elson]

On 01/15/2016 08:09 AM, Robo58 wrote:

Hi Folks,

I have many diskettes worth of CP/M 2.2 assembler source code and programs
that I'd like to archive in the PC environment.  I'm worried that my media
is degrading and I want to move it before it's too late.

The media is mostly 8" SD or DD, there are also some 5.25" HD diskettes too.

I have the original hardware and can view the media and run the programs.

I'm looking for suggestions on how to move it to the PC environment.

Got a console serial port on the CP/M system?  You should be 
able to use a program like Kermit to suck up the files.  
Probably log a file list, edit the file list to only have 
source files, and then you can get that into Kermit to make 
the CP/M system type out the files, and Kermit will log them 
to individual files.  I've never done this, but I think 
kermit was specially designed to make this easy to do.


I'm guessing a few other terminal programs have the same 
sort of capability to run scripts to send commands to a 
foreign OS and log the result.


Jon

RE: Archiving CP/M 2.2 Source Code Programs to a PC (Fat or NTFS media)

[Robo58]

Hi Bill,

Thanks for the reply.  Yes,  I have an 8" Shugart 800/801 and one or two 5.25".

I'm a little rusty on the older PC's.  So when you say that 386 to PIII's could 
read an 8" floppy, would those PC's have SD floppy controllers?

I did a quick look and the link for the Catweasel 
(http://www.jschoenfeld.com/products/catweasel_e.htm) and the website no longer 
operational.

Assume that I can get an old PC and connect it up how would an "image a disk" 
program work?  Does it have knowledge of the CP/M files system and can read the 
directory and grab the files?  Would the program also be able to write to the 
PC's file system to complete the archive?

What "image a disk" programs would suggest?

Thank you
Robo



-Original Message-
From: cctalk [mailto:cctalk-boun...@classiccmp.org] On Behalf Of william degnan
Sent: Friday, January 15, 2016 10:40 AM
To: General Discussion: On-Topic and Off-Topic Posts 
Subject: Re: Archiving CP/M 2.2 Source Code Programs to a PC (Fat or NTFS media)

do you have a working 8" drive?  You can attach to a PC from the 386 through to 
Pentium III as a "HD 5 1/4" drive.  That's what I do.  You need the DBIT 50/34 
adapter and image an disk program.  You can usually for CP/M disks just use the 
motherboard's built-in disk drive controller, but I also have a Catweasel if I 
need it for more exotic formats.  CP/M disks are very readable, any format I 
have ever encountered on SS disks has been no problem, assuming the disk itself 
is ok.

Here is a thread from my web site that describes the process, as I accomplished 
it.  There is more than one way to skin this cat, there is also a link within 
the thread with a downloadable how-to guide from VCF East 9.

http://vintagecomputer.net/browse_thread.cfm?id=561

Bill

Re: Archiving CP/M 2.2 Source Code Programs to a PC (Fat or NTFS media)

[Chuck Guzis]

On 01/15/2016 06:09 AM, Robo58 wrote:


I have many diskettes worth of CP/M 2.2 assembler source code and
programs that I'd like to archive in the PC environment.  I'm worried
that my media is degrading and I want to move it before it's too
late.

The media is mostly 8" SD or DD, there are also some 5.25" HD
diskettes too.

I have the original hardware and can view the media and run the
programs.

I'm looking for suggestions on how to move it to the PC environment


I'm sure that others will give you some great suggestions on the 
mechanics, but I will add my own 2 cents to this by observing that if 
most of the diskettes are CPMUG or other "user groups", your effort may 
well be redundant--many of the files that were distributed via BBS have 
long been archived and made public (e.g. SIMTEL20).


Good luck,
Chuck

Re: Archiving CP/M 2.2 Source Code Programs to a PC (Fat or NTFS media)

[william degnan]

do you have a working 8" drive?  You can attach to a PC from the 386
through to Pentium III as a "HD 5 1/4" drive.  That's what I do.  You need
the DBIT 50/34 adapter and image an disk program.  You can usually for CP/M
disks just use the motherboard's built-in disk drive controller, but I also
have a Catweasel if I need it for more exotic formats.  CP/M disks are very
readable, any format I have ever encountered on SS disks has been no
problem, assuming the disk itself is ok.

Here is a thread from my web site that describes the process, as I
accomplished it.  There is more than one way to skin this cat, there is
also a link within the thread with a downloadable how-to guide from VCF
East 9.

http://vintagecomputer.net/browse_thread.cfm?id=561

Bill

On Fri, Jan 15, 2016 at 10:32 AM, Robo58  wrote:

> Hi Fred,
>
> Thanks for the reply.  The 8" SD diskettes are standard IBM format (I
> believe 3740 physical format) 26 sectors.  I believe the  8" DD follows the
> same 3740 physical format but has 1024 byte sectors and that they could
> vary
> as to either 8 or 9 sectors/track.
>
> Regarding the 5.25" HD diskettes.  I believe they are duplicates of the
> 8"DD
> just using the smaller media.
>
> The hardware is custom so there is no unique base of users or other
> software
> to leverage.  There are two different platforms, both Z80 one platform uses
> the Western Digital 1771 floppy controller, the second platform was newer
> at
> the time and is Z80 with WD 1791 floppy controller.
>
> Thanks Robo
>
>
>
>
> -Original Message-
> From: cctalk [mailto:cctalk-boun...@classiccmp.org] On Behalf Of Fred
> Cisin
> Sent: Friday, January 15, 2016 10:10 AM
> To: General Discussion: On-Topic and Off-Topic Posts <
> cctalk@classiccmp.org>
> Subject: Re: Archiving CP/M 2.2 Source Code Programs to a PC (Fat or NTFS
> media)
>
> On Fri, 15 Jan 2016, Robo58 wrote:
> > Hi Folks,
> > I have many diskettes worth of CP/M 2.2 assembler source code and
> > programs that I'd like to archive in the PC environment.  I'm worried
> > that my media is degrading and I want to move it before it's too late.
> > The media is mostly 8" SD or DD, there are also some 5.25" HD diskettes
> too.
>
> Are the "8" SD" standard 8" SSSD?
> What format are the 8" DD?
> What format are the 5.25" HD?   Are you SURE that they are HD?
>
> > I have the original hardware and can view the media and run the programs.
>
> What make and model?  There are approximately 2500 mutually incompatible
> CP/M disk formats.
>
> > I'm looking for suggestions on how to move it to the PC environment.
>
>
>


-- 
-Bill-

RE: Archiving CP/M 2.2 Source Code Programs to a PC (Fat or NTFS media)

[Robo58]

Hi Fred,

Thanks for the reply.  The 8" SD diskettes are standard IBM format (I
believe 3740 physical format) 26 sectors.  I believe the  8" DD follows the
same 3740 physical format but has 1024 byte sectors and that they could vary
as to either 8 or 9 sectors/track.

Regarding the 5.25" HD diskettes.  I believe they are duplicates of the 8"DD
just using the smaller media.

The hardware is custom so there is no unique base of users or other software
to leverage.  There are two different platforms, both Z80 one platform uses
the Western Digital 1771 floppy controller, the second platform was newer at
the time and is Z80 with WD 1791 floppy controller.  

Thanks Robo




-Original Message-
From: cctalk [mailto:cctalk-boun...@classiccmp.org] On Behalf Of Fred Cisin
Sent: Friday, January 15, 2016 10:10 AM
To: General Discussion: On-Topic and Off-Topic Posts 
Subject: Re: Archiving CP/M 2.2 Source Code Programs to a PC (Fat or NTFS
media)

On Fri, 15 Jan 2016, Robo58 wrote:
> Hi Folks,
> I have many diskettes worth of CP/M 2.2 assembler source code and 
> programs that I'd like to archive in the PC environment.  I'm worried 
> that my media is degrading and I want to move it before it's too late.
> The media is mostly 8" SD or DD, there are also some 5.25" HD diskettes
too.

Are the "8" SD" standard 8" SSSD?
What format are the 8" DD?
What format are the 5.25" HD?   Are you SURE that they are HD?

> I have the original hardware and can view the media and run the programs.

What make and model?  There are approximately 2500 mutually incompatible
CP/M disk formats.

> I'm looking for suggestions on how to move it to the PC environment.

Re: Retrocomputing on StackExchange...

[geneb]

On Fri, 15 Jan 2016, David Brownlee wrote:


On 15 January 2016 at 13:50, geneb  wrote:


http://area51.stackexchange.com/proposals/94441/retro-computing

I think this is actually a pretty good idea and StackExchange is a great 
platform.

As of right now it needs 11 more people following it (and more questions).


It might be good to adjust it to include more than just "micro" computers...

Good idea, but it's not up to me - I didn't create the proposed SE 
section. :)


g.

--
Proud owner of F-15C 80-0007
http://www.f15sim.com - The only one of its kind.
http://www.diy-cockpits.org/coll - Go Collimated or Go Home.
Some people collect things for a hobby.  Geeks collect hobbies.

ScarletDME - The red hot Data Management Environment
A Multi-Value database for the masses, not the classes.
http://scarlet.deltasoft.com - Get it _today_!

Re: Retrocomputing on StackExchange...

[David Brownlee]

On 15 January 2016 at 13:50, geneb  wrote:
>
> http://area51.stackexchange.com/proposals/94441/retro-computing
>
> I think this is actually a pretty good idea and StackExchange is a great 
> platform.
>
> As of right now it needs 11 more people following it (and more questions).

It might be good to adjust it to include more than just "micro" computers...

Re: Archiving CP/M 2.2 Source Code Programs to a PC (Fat or NTFS media)

[Fred Cisin]

On Fri, 15 Jan 2016, Robo58 wrote:

Hi Folks,
I have many diskettes worth of CP/M 2.2 assembler source code and programs
that I'd like to archive in the PC environment.  I'm worried that my media
is degrading and I want to move it before it's too late.
The media is mostly 8" SD or DD, there are also some 5.25" HD diskettes too.


Are the "8" SD" standard 8" SSSD?
What format are the 8" DD?
What format are the 5.25" HD?   Are you SURE that they are HD?


I have the original hardware and can view the media and run the programs.


What make and model?  There are approximately 2500 mutually incompatible 
CP/M disk formats.



I'm looking for suggestions on how to move it to the PC environment.

Retrocomputing on StackExchange...

[geneb]

http://area51.stackexchange.com/proposals/94441/retro-computing

I think this is actually a pretty good idea and StackExchange is a great 
platform.


As of right now it needs 11 more people following it (and more questions).

tnx.

g.


--
Proud owner of F-15C 80-0007
http://www.f15sim.com - The only one of its kind.
http://www.diy-cockpits.org/coll - Go Collimated or Go Home.
Some people collect things for a hobby.  Geeks collect hobbies.

ScarletDME - The red hot Data Management Environment
A Multi-Value database for the masses, not the classes.
http://scarlet.deltasoft.com - Get it _today_!

Archiving CP/M 2.2 Source Code Programs to a PC (Fat or NTFS media)

[Robo58]

Hi Folks,

I have many diskettes worth of CP/M 2.2 assembler source code and programs
that I'd like to archive in the PC environment.  I'm worried that my media
is degrading and I want to move it before it's too late.

The media is mostly 8" SD or DD, there are also some 5.25" HD diskettes too.

I have the original hardware and can view the media and run the programs.

I'm looking for suggestions on how to move it to the PC environment.

Thanks Robo

RE: Preferred way of substituting TFT for CRT Monitor?

[tony duell]

> 
> I have got a HP 9000/217 machine with a standard video card. This card has a 
> monochrome
>  composite output (resolution is as low as about 512x400, but I might replace 
> it with a higher
>  resolution card). A small 9" HP monitor that I used for testing only shows 
> me 2 or 3 bands
>  of the image and cannot capture the signal properly.

What is the exact model number of the video card?

I am assuming it's an HP98204 of some flavour. The HP98204A uses (US, RS170) TV 
rates and
can be connected to any composite monitor that expects that. A lot of TVs 
(rather than monitors)
in Europe can accept that and have composite inputs still, perhaps on a SCART 
socket.

However the more normal video card in the 9000/217 (aka HP9817) is the 
HP98204B. This does
have a composite output but at rather odd rates. There was a specal 'HP' 
(actually a Samsung
chassis, and it shows!) monitor for this. I thinkl finding somethng that will 
lock to the video output
of that card is going to be 'interesting'

Do you have the original HP monitor? If so, what model is it?

-tony

Re: Preferred way of substituting TFT for CRT Monitor?

[nierveze]

hello
this circuit
http://nootropicdesign.com/ve/downloads/LM1881.pdf
separate sync signals from composite video,it may help you with some 
level adjustement,to apply your composite video to vga screens
maybe you can find commercial products on ebay but it will be more 
expensive 

best regards
alain Nierveze

Le 15/01/2016 12:39, martin.heppe...@dlr.de a écrit :

I have got a HP 9000/217 machine with a standard video card. This card has a 
monochrome composite output (resolution is as low as about 512x400, but I might 
replace it with a higher resolution card). A small 9" HP monitor that I used 
for testing only shows me 2 or 3 bands of the image and cannot capture the signal 
properly.

All I have are modern TFT monitors which usually have VGA and/or DVI inputs, no 
separate R-G-B or monochrome jacks.

What is the preferred way to connect "old" composite video signals to a modern 
TFT monitor without losing too much sharpness? I understand that interpolation is an 
unavoidable problem.

Searching the internet did not give me a clear answer. Do you have any 
recommendations?

Thank you, Martin

Re: Preferred way of substituting TFT for CRT Monitor?

[Mouse]

> All I have are modern TFT monitors which usually have VGA and/or DVI inputs,$

> What is the preferred way to connect "old" composite video signals to a mode$

Please don't use paragraph-length lines.

Any monitor that takes DE-15 ("VGA") or DVI-A input is, electrically
speaking, taking R-G-B signals; passive adapters exist (I've seen them
from DE-15 with 13W3 and 4BNC on the other end; I'm sure plenty of
others exist).  (Be careful with DVI; there are at least two kinds of
DVI, and it's just DVI-A, AIUI, that fits this description.)

Interpolation is not unavoidable.  The better flatscreens have a way to
tell the monitor to letterbox rather than scale signals whose
resolution is less than the monitor's.  _Good_ flatscreens have an
option to scale by the largest _integer_ factor possible, thus getting
image size without losing sharp pixel edges or aspect ratio.  (It's
depressing how advances in monitor technology have improved things to
the point where monitors routinely refuse to do what pretty much any
CRT monitor from decades past would.)

/~\ The ASCII Mouse
\ / Ribbon Campaign
 X  Against HTMLmo...@rodents-montreal.org
/ \ Email!   7D C8 61 52 5D E7 2D 39  4E F1 31 3E E8 B3 27 4B

RE: Preferred way of substituting TFT for CRT Monitor?

[Dave Wade]

Assuming you are in Germany I would use an LCD TV with SCART I assume
devices with SCART inputs are available there. Does Aldi in Germany do
weekly offers as in the UK. I especially bought one of their TV's because it
had a wide range of inputs. 

Dave

> -Original Message-
> From: cctalk [mailto:cctalk-boun...@classiccmp.org] On Behalf Of
> martin.heppe...@dlr.de
> Sent: 15 January 2016 11:39
> To: cctalk@classiccmp.org
> Subject: Preferred way of substituting TFT for CRT Monitor?
> 
> I have got a HP 9000/217 machine with a standard video card. This card has
a
> monochrome composite output (resolution is as low as about 512x400, but I
> might replace it with a higher resolution card). A small 9" HP monitor
that I
> used for testing only shows me 2 or 3 bands of the image and cannot
capture
> the signal properly.
> 
> All I have are modern TFT monitors which usually have VGA and/or DVI
> inputs, no separate R-G-B or monochrome jacks.
> 
> What is the preferred way to connect "old" composite video signals to a
> modern TFT monitor without losing too much sharpness? I understand that
> interpolation is an unavoidable problem.
> 
> Searching the internet did not give me a clear answer. Do you have any
> recommendations?
> 
> Thank you, Martin

Preferred way of substituting TFT for CRT Monitor?

[Martin.Hepperle]

I have got a HP 9000/217 machine with a standard video card. This card has a 
monochrome composite output (resolution is as low as about 512x400, but I might 
replace it with a higher resolution card). A small 9" HP monitor that I used 
for testing only shows me 2 or 3 bands of the image and cannot capture the 
signal properly.

All I have are modern TFT monitors which usually have VGA and/or DVI inputs, no 
separate R-G-B or monochrome jacks.

What is the preferred way to connect "old" composite video signals to a modern 
TFT monitor without losing too much sharpness? I understand that interpolation 
is an unavoidable problem.

Searching the internet did not give me a clear answer. Do you have any 
recommendations?

Thank you, Martin

Re: Alphatronic P2 Manuals

[Christian Corti]

On Fri, 15 Jan 2016, Piero Andreini wrote:
I scanned several manuals belong the Alphatronic P2 300dpi pdf no 
compression.


Nice; is there any manual not found on 
ftp://computermuseum.informatik.uni-stuttgart.de/alphatronic/

?

And BTW, IMO 600dpi is a *minimum* nowadays. No matter what some people 
say, I think 300dpi text (and escpecially schematic) scans just suck.


Christian