[cctalk] Re: Reading Old Floppies
For cleaning and maintaining floppies give shadowtronblog on YouTube a watch. He lovingly restores various vintage equipment. There are a few vids of him restoring some floppies, cleaning heads, greasing mechanical bits etc. I think his TRS80 playlist had a fair bit of that in IIRC.
[cctalk] Re: Gotek as RX50 replacement for DECmate II
still no luck there unfortunately, i disabled interleaving and changed the id to 0 as well, it still does not want to boot. the cable i’m using is straight through though, i’m using the cable the came with the unit originally. i have another on the way just in case but since this cable is pretty hefty, i wouldn’t suspect that it’s damaged. at this point i have to wonder, what the chances are that my floppy controller is dead? if anyone in/around the columbia, MD area has a working RX50 (or other 5.25” drive, if the DMII will take it) they can lend and the ability to prep some 5.25” floppies for me feel free to reach out off-list, i unfortunately do not have any working 5.25” drives lying around at the moment and the weekend is fast approaching. — .hush Got interesting stuff to sell? Let me know! Looking for DEC, IBM, CDC, SGI, Data General, and more! > On Wednesday, Jan 11, 2023 at 10:52 PM, Warner Losh (mailto:i...@bsdimp.com)> wrote: > > > On Wed, Jan 11, 2023 at 8:14 PM h...@dec.dog via cctalk > mailto:cctalk@classiccmp.org)> wrote: > > appreciate the reply, Matt! unfortunately it doesn’t seem that that did the > > trick, another round of feeding it disk images and it still doesn’t want to > > boot. > > > > i tried the block and sector RX50 images on the dbit[.]com archive both > > as-is and converted to IBM MFM raw and HxC formats, and the teledisk images > > on ibiblio[.]org converted to the same. > > > > my img.cfg: > > > > [rx50] > > cyls = 80 > > heads = 1 > > secs = 10 > > interleave = 2 > > bps = 512 > > id = 1 > > rpm = 300 > > rate = 250 > > mode = mfm > > iam = no > > > > should i start suspecting my gotek (or worse, the system board) or is it > > still possible that i’m at fault? > > I don't think you want the interleave. At least for the Rainbow and the Pro > they did do an interleave of 2, but it was done at the logical level, not the > physical level (which is confusing). So, if the images are physical images > (that is, they record the physical sector numbers that are on the media), > then you don't need it. If the images are logical (so some or all of the > tracks have the interleave applied), then you will need it. > > Also, I think should be 0. Unlike the PC, where 1 and 0 are flipped by a > cable (you have a straight through cable, right?), the top RX-50 is ID 0 and > the bottom is ID 1. > > Warner > > — > > .hush > > Got interesting stuff to sell? Let me know! > > Looking for DEC, IBM, CDC, SGI, Data General, and more! > > > > > On Wednesday, Jan 11, 2023 at 8:47 PM, Matt Burke via cctalk > > > mailto:cctalk@classiccmp.org) > > > (mailto:cctalk@classiccmp.org)> wrote: > > > On 12/01/2023 00:58, h...@dec.dog via cctalk wrote: > > > > hello cctalk! i have been working for the past few days on a DECmate II > > > > with what i believe to be an ailing RX50. i have a gotek with updated > > > > flashfloppy firmware, but for some strange reason i have been > > > > completely unable to get the DMII to boot a floppy image from it. > > > > > > > > i have been trying to convert the OS/278 and WPS images on the dbit and > > > > ibiblio archives into a working format for the gotek but none of them > > > > will work. at this point i have tried too many conversions to recall > > > > but they all result in the same blinking floppy icon when the unit > > > > boots. i have “host = dec” in my FF.CFG per the wiki. > > > > > > > > has anyone else been able to get this working? if so, could you please > > > > provide known-good images for a gotek, or the steps to generate them? > > > > > > > > > > I've used a Gotek (semi-successfully) with the DEC Rainbow using raw > > > image files and the following lines in ff.cfg: > > > > > > host = dec > > > pin02 = low > > > pin34 = rdy > > > > > > The image file format should not be important though you may run into > > > problems with sector ordering depending on how the source image was > > > created. It was the pin02 and pin34 lines that got it working for the > > > Rainbow. > > > > > > Matt
[cctalk] Re: Gotek as RX50 replacement for DECmate II
On Wed, Jan 11, 2023 at 8:14 PM h...@dec.dog via cctalk < cctalk@classiccmp.org> wrote: > appreciate the reply, Matt! unfortunately it doesn’t seem that that did > the trick, another round of feeding it disk images and it still doesn’t > want to boot. > > i tried the block and sector RX50 images on the dbit[.]com archive both > as-is and converted to IBM MFM raw and HxC formats, and the teledisk images > on ibiblio[.]org converted to the same. > > my img.cfg: > > [rx50] > cyls = 80 > heads = 1 > secs = 10 > interleave = 2 > bps = 512 > id = 1 > rpm = 300 > rate = 250 > mode = mfm > iam = no > > should i start suspecting my gotek (or worse, the system board) or is it > still possible that i’m at fault? > I don't think you want the interleave. At least for the Rainbow and the Pro they did do an interleave of 2, but it was done at the logical level, not the physical level (which is confusing). So, if the images are physical images (that is, they record the physical sector numbers that are on the media), then you don't need it. If the images are logical (so some or all of the tracks have the interleave applied), then you will need it. Also, I think should be 0. Unlike the PC, where 1 and 0 are flipped by a cable (you have a straight through cable, right?), the top RX-50 is ID 0 and the bottom is ID 1. Warner > — > .hush > Got interesting stuff to sell? Let me know! > Looking for DEC, IBM, CDC, SGI, Data General, and more! > > > On Wednesday, Jan 11, 2023 at 8:47 PM, Matt Burke via cctalk < > cctalk@classiccmp.org (mailto:cctalk@classiccmp.org)> wrote: > > On 12/01/2023 00:58, h...@dec.dog via cctalk wrote: > > > hello cctalk! i have been working for the past few days on a DECmate > II with what i believe to be an ailing RX50. i have a gotek with updated > flashfloppy firmware, but for some strange reason i have been completely > unable to get the DMII to boot a floppy image from it. > > > > > > i have been trying to convert the OS/278 and WPS images on the dbit > and ibiblio archives into a working format for the gotek but none of them > will work. at this point i have tried too many conversions to recall but > they all result in the same blinking floppy icon when the unit boots. i > have “host = dec” in my FF.CFG per the wiki. > > > > > > has anyone else been able to get this working? if so, could you please > provide known-good images for a gotek, or the steps to generate them? > > > > > > > I've used a Gotek (semi-successfully) with the DEC Rainbow using raw > > image files and the following lines in ff.cfg: > > > > host = dec > > pin02 = low > > pin34 = rdy > > > > The image file format should not be important though you may run into > > problems with sector ordering depending on how the source image was > > created. It was the pin02 and pin34 lines that got it working for the > > Rainbow. > > > > Matt >
[cctalk] Re: Gotek as RX50 replacement for DECmate II
appreciate the reply, Matt! unfortunately it doesn’t seem that that did the trick, another round of feeding it disk images and it still doesn’t want to boot. i tried the block and sector RX50 images on the dbit[.]com archive both as-is and converted to IBM MFM raw and HxC formats, and the teledisk images on ibiblio[.]org converted to the same. my img.cfg: [rx50] cyls = 80 heads = 1 secs = 10 interleave = 2 bps = 512 id = 1 rpm = 300 rate = 250 mode = mfm iam = no should i start suspecting my gotek (or worse, the system board) or is it still possible that i’m at fault? — .hush Got interesting stuff to sell? Let me know! Looking for DEC, IBM, CDC, SGI, Data General, and more! > On Wednesday, Jan 11, 2023 at 8:47 PM, Matt Burke via cctalk > mailto:cctalk@classiccmp.org)> wrote: > On 12/01/2023 00:58, h...@dec.dog via cctalk wrote: > > hello cctalk! i have been working for the past few days on a DECmate II > > with what i believe to be an ailing RX50. i have a gotek with updated > > flashfloppy firmware, but for some strange reason i have been completely > > unable to get the DMII to boot a floppy image from it. > > > > i have been trying to convert the OS/278 and WPS images on the dbit and > > ibiblio archives into a working format for the gotek but none of them will > > work. at this point i have tried too many conversions to recall but they > > all result in the same blinking floppy icon when the unit boots. i have > > “host = dec” in my FF.CFG per the wiki. > > > > has anyone else been able to get this working? if so, could you please > > provide known-good images for a gotek, or the steps to generate them? > > > > I've used a Gotek (semi-successfully) with the DEC Rainbow using raw > image files and the following lines in ff.cfg: > > host = dec > pin02 = low > pin34 = rdy > > The image file format should not be important though you may run into > problems with sector ordering depending on how the source image was > created. It was the pin02 and pin34 lines that got it working for the > Rainbow. > > Matt
[cctalk] Re: Gotek as RX50 replacement for DECmate II
On 12/01/2023 00:58, h...@dec.dog via cctalk wrote: > hello cctalk! i have been working for the past few days on a DECmate II with > what i believe to be an ailing RX50. i have a gotek with updated flashfloppy > firmware, but for some strange reason i have been completely unable to get > the DMII to boot a floppy image from it. > > i have been trying to convert the OS/278 and WPS images on the dbit and > ibiblio archives into a working format for the gotek but none of them will > work. at this point i have tried too many conversions to recall but they all > result in the same blinking floppy icon when the unit boots. i have “host = > dec” in my FF.CFG per the wiki. > > has anyone else been able to get this working? if so, could you please > provide known-good images for a gotek, or the steps to generate them? > I've used a Gotek (semi-successfully) with the DEC Rainbow using raw image files and the following lines in ff.cfg: host = dec pin02 = low pin34 = rdy The image file format should not be important though you may run into problems with sector ordering depending on how the source image was created. It was the pin02 and pin34 lines that got it working for the Rainbow. Matt
[cctalk] Gotek as RX50 replacement for DECmate II
hello cctalk! i have been working for the past few days on a DECmate II with what i believe to be an ailing RX50. i have a gotek with updated flashfloppy firmware, but for some strange reason i have been completely unable to get the DMII to boot a floppy image from it. i have been trying to convert the OS/278 and WPS images on the dbit and ibiblio archives into a working format for the gotek but none of them will work. at this point i have tried too many conversions to recall but they all result in the same blinking floppy icon when the unit boots. i have “host = dec” in my FF.CFG per the wiki. has anyone else been able to get this working? if so, could you please provide known-good images for a gotek, or the steps to generate them? thank you in advance! — .hush Got interesting stuff to sell? Let me know! Looking for DEC, IBM, CDC, SGI, Data General, and more!
[cctalk] Re: Reading Old Floppies
The belts that I use for TU58's work but are a bit on the tight side. I'd say buy a set of those, and also a set that is is 1.5 times the size and twice as wide. It's not that big of a deal, technically it may cause a bit more stress to the sleeve bearings and cause them to wear out in 20 years as opposed to 50. Oh well :-) C On 1/11/2023 1:22 AM, Sellam Abraham via cctalk wrote: I had the same issue with one of those drives. I think I may have it but I need to source a belt to fix it. The black goop that used to be the belt got all over the mechanism. It was a pain to clean off completely. Sellam On Tue, Jan 10, 2023 at 10:11 PM Chris Zach via cctalk < cctalk@classiccmp.org> wrote: Speaking of reading old floppies, I got my Model 100 and Tandy Portable Disk Drive down from the shelf to read some old floppies I found from the 1980's. 3.5 inch disks with a whopping 100k capacity each! Problem was drive was saying the disks were "not formatted". Took it apart, found that the belt had literally turned to black goo and wrapped itself around the capstain. Cleaned it off (took forever), then put on a new modern belt that I use for TU58 Dectape II tapes. Fit, bit tight but fit. Drive works great! And some of the stuff I wrote in the 1980's Old posts to compuserve's pdp11 forum, ancient bitnet messages, stuff about getting the pdp8/L and passing up other stuff... Could have bought a Vax730 with R80/RL02 for 3k but didn't have the money. All in all a fun trip down memory lane. And I kept thinking "Was I really that naive? C On 1/10/2023 6:18 PM, Sellam Abraham via cctalk wrote: Yes, the 2/2P models I [think I] had were blue. Sellam On Tue, Jan 10, 2023 at 2:21 PM Fred Cisin via cctalk < cctalk@classiccmp.org> wrote: A few years later, I got a used ["Euro"]-Apple II, converted for USA use, in an OSI Challenger case (with wood (walnu?) sides), with an external RCA keyboard. If you didn't get it, then maybe Eric Smith? On Tue, 10 Jan 2023, Sellam Abraham via cctalk wrote: Was it this style (Challenger 4P)? https://imgs.search.brave.com/p_LUazpNEKMRJwuHl-uqgVmE7lVt1-7AodxQMTSCvOY/rs:fit:400:326:1/g:ce/aHR0cHM6Ly93d3cu/aXRoaXN0b3J5Lm9y/Zy9zaXRlcy9kZWZh/dWx0L2ZpbGVzL2hh/cmR3YXJlL09oaW9D/aGFsbDRQMy5KUEc I can't remember if I ever had a 4P but I did have I think two 2 or 2P models. Either way, I'm not sure if I got any from you, but in the end, if I did, you know what happened. I do still have a Challenger motherboard around here somewhere, as well as I think an OSI of some model in a custom-built big-box style enclosure. Yes, it was that style, but BLUE No floppy unit. The external RCA keyboard was black, and a splash resistant case.
[cctalk] Re: Reading Old Floppies
On 1/10/23 15:24, Mike Katz via cctalk wrote: > I haven't seen any mention of greaseweazel types of "flux" readers. > They read the flux changes off of the floppy and then interpret them > with a separate program. > Before the greaseweazel, and similar boards, there were the Catweasel > controllers, which are essentially the same thing, but done in an FPGA > with an ISA interface. Even then, I kept telling people that most > microcontrollers with a capture-mode timer would do the job for a > fraction of the cost. Personally, I've been using an STM32F407 with > my own software. It produces catweasel-files and works with my own > code written for catweasel. I probably made it overly complicated, as it uses DMA to record the capture events. At 168MHz on a pipelined architecture, I could have gone with polled I/O, but the deed is done. Even before the high-integration MCUs with everything but the kitchen sink, I was using an ATMega162 with external SRAM to do the sampling. It's not brain surgery. Chuck
