[cctalk] Re: Antonio's call for donations (was LCM auction)
I’d love to see that program. As a UCSD Pascal developer (at UCSD back in the day) interesting Pascal programs are always something that I’m interested in seeing/reading. David > On Aug 31, 2024, at 7:48 AM, Jon Elson via cctalk > wrote: > > On 8/30/24 21:25, cz via cctalk wrote: >>> By the way, the earth is round... >> >> I'm glad we can agree on this. Of course the Earth is round. >> >> It's also hollow. >> >> To try and turn this thread around: I'm looking to make an extended memory >> controller for my pdp8/L. I've got a wire wrap backplane and enough cards to >> make it work but I've never done wire-wrap on this sort of scale. >> >> I've got an old Radio Shack Wire wrap tool and a lot of wire. Is there any >> sites that discuss how to do reasonable wire-wrapping? > > I have a program that takes coordinates of ICs and/or connectors and a net > list and creates a wiring list for first-level and 2nd level wires with > shortest length. > > It tells what length wire to use. > > It is written in Pascal, and uses a genetic algorithm to find the shortest > path. Sometimes that doesn't give the best wire routing, but it tries. I > have not used this program in several decades, but I'd be glad to give it to > you. > > Jon > A: Because it messes up the order in which people normally read text. Q: Why is it such a bad thing? A: Top-posting. Q: What is the most annoying thing in e-mail? David Barto ba...@kdbarto.org
[cctalk] Re: DOS p-System Pascal: (Was: Saga of CP/M)
> On May 9, 2024, at 5:45 AM, Will Cooke via cctalk > wrote: > > > >> On 05/09/2024 7:24 AM CDT Bill Degnan via cctalk >> wrote: >> >> >> Mike >> I was thinking operating systems and the early launch version IBM PC, but >> yes once the hardware caught up Turbo Pascal was a popular program now that >> I think about it. So I guess the PC versions just needed more horsepower >> and some useful libraries. But Pascal never matched C >> Bill >> > > My perception is that UCSD P system was quite popular in the late 70s on > Apple and other systems. Then when the university turned it over to > commercial marketing (SofTech?), the silly games played turned a lot of > people off. Like trying to revoke previously granted licenses and charging > "too much." > > I suspect that left a bad taste in a lot of mouths that might otherwise have > been interested. But I was a distant observer at the time; I couldn't > afford more than my ZX-81 and VIC-20. > > Will > SofTech MicroSystems to be specific. They spun it up specifically for UCSD Pascal and hired a lot of the projects students as their first engineers and managers. It was an interesting place to work, mostly because we (the students/new employees) still had the UCSD development mindset and not the corporate philosophy that SofTech wanted. Yes, They did the silly games and screwed up a good thing. UCSD Pascal IV.II (4.2) was pretty good IIRC however it was too little/too late to the party. By then everything was MS/DOS and C was coming on strong even in the micro world. The fact that you had to run the P-System OS and the 64KB limit on addressing didn’t help adoption. David
[cctalk] Re: Saga of CP/M
At Ken Bowles retirement from UCSD (Ken was the lead of the UCSD Pascal
Project) he related a story that IBM came to UCSD after being ‘rejected’ by DR
to see if the Regents of the University would license UCSD Pascal (the OS and
the language) to IBM for release on the new hardware IBM was developing. The UC
Regents said ’no’.
He was quite sad that history took the very different course.
David
> On May 3, 2024, at 6:30 PM, Fred Cisin via cctalk
> wrote:
>
> PL/M (think "PL/1") was a high level programming language for microprocessors.
>
> CP/M was also briefly called "Control Program and Monitor"
> It was written by Gary Kildall. (May 19, 1942 - july 11, 1994)
>
> Gary taught at Navy Postgraduate School in Monterey.
> He took a break in 1972, to complete his PhD at University of Washington.
>
> He wrote 8008 and 8080 instruction set simulators for Intel, and they loaned
> him hardware.
>
> In 1973? he wrote CP/M.
> He offered it to Intel, but they didn't want it, although they marketed the
> PL/M.
>
> He and his wife started "Intergalactic Digital Research" in Pacific Grove.
> Later renamed "Digital Research, Inc."
>
> CP/M rapidly became a defacto standard as operating system for 8080 and later
> Z80 computers.
>
> In the late 1970s, when CP/M computers were available with 5.25" drives, and
> there were hundreds, soon thousands of different formats, I chatted with
> Gary, and pleaded with him ot create a "standard" format for 5.25".
> His response was a very polite, "The standard format for CP/M is 8 inch
> single sided single density."
> I pointed out that formats were proliferating excessively.
> His response was a very polite, "I understand. Sorry, but the standard format
> for CP/M is 8 inch single sided single density."
>
>
> In 1980? IBM was developing a personal computer. (y'all have heard of it) One
> of the IBM people had a Microsoft Softcard (Z80 plus CP/M) in his Apple. IBM
> went to Microsoft, to negotiate BASIC for the new machine, and CP/M.
>
> Bill Gates explained and sent them to Digital Research.
>
> When the IBM representatives arrived, Gary was flying his plane up to Oakland
> to visit Bill Godbout. He hadn't seen a need to be present, and assumed that
> Dorothy would take care of the [presumably completely routine] paperwork.
> While visiting Bill godbout, and delivering some software was important, it
> WAS something that a low level courier could have done.
>
>
> There was a little bit of a culture clash.
> The IBM people were all in identical blue suits.
> The DR people were in sandals, barefoot, shorts, t-shirts, braless women,
> with bicycles, surfboard, plants and even cats in the office,
>
> The IBM people demanded a signed non=disclosure ageement before talking.
> Dorothy Kildall refused.
>
> When Dorothy got Gary on the phone, it is unreliably reported that he said,
> "well, let them sit on the couch and wait their turn like the rest of the
> customers."
>
> It is also been said that DR people upstairs saw the IBM people marching up,
> and thought that it was a drug raid. I have stood in that bay window
> overlooking the front door, and can believe that.
>
> IBM chose to not do business with DR and went back to Microsoft.
> When billg was unable to convince them that Microsoft was not in the
> operating system business, Microsoft went into the operating system business.
> They bought an unlimited license to QDOS (Tim Paterson's work at Seattle
> Computer Products). They also hired Tim Paterson.
>
> DR was working on CP/M-86, but it was a ways off.
> Paterson had written QDOS ("Quick and Dirty Operating System") as a
> placeholder to be able to continue development while waiting for CP/M-86
> We've mentioned before, that Tim Paterson got the idea for the directory
> structure from Microsoft Standalone BASIC. As Chuck pointed out, that was
> not a new invention, merely a choice of which way to do it.
>
> billg knew how to deal with officious managers. It is unreliably said that
> he told the Microsoft people, "Everybody who does not own a suit, stay home
> tomorrow!"
>
> IBM insisted that Micorsoft beef up security. window shades, locks on doors
> that normally weren't, locks on file cabinets, etc.
> It is unreliably said that to throw off anyboy who heard about it, that
> Microsoft referred to the IBm project as "Project Commodore"
>
>
>
> dr continued to sell CP/M.
> When the 5150/:PC was ready, IBM announced it with PC-DOS, which was a
> renaming of MS-DOS,renaming 86-DOS, renaming QDOS.
>
> If I recall correctly theprice was $40 (or maybe $60?)
>
>
> DR pointed out that NS-DOS was extremely similar to CP/M.
> https://www.cs.drexel.edu/~johnsojr/2012-13/fall/cs370/resources/An%20Inside%20Look%20at%20MS-DOS.pdf
> IBM didn't consider it a problem, andsimply offered to ALSO sell CP/M-86,
> particularly since they were already also marketing UCSD P-System.
>
> CP/M-86 was not available yet, so eve
[cctalk] Re: RIP: Software design pioneer and Pascal creator Niklaus Wirth
I worked on the UCSD Pascal project which started from the P2 compiler that Wirth created for the CDC computer. I loved working on the project and even more learning so much about compilers, linkers, OS design and how to make it all work really well and pretty darn fast for a PDP-11/02 with 64K of RAM and a floppy disk. He will truly be missed. David > On Jan 4, 2024, at 2:38 PM, Rob Jarratt via cctalk > wrote: > > Sad news but a great article Liam, thanks for the interesting history. > > The second language I taught myself was Algol 68 (!), on a DECSYSTEM20. I > learned Pascal at University, when I did my M.Sc I used VAX Pascal on a VAX > 11/780 and went on to use it as my first professional language. I loved VAX > Pascal, I could do just about anything I wanted with it. Of course, it wasn't > very "pure" Pascal. > > Incidentally, I have asked a couple of times before, but if anyone knows of > any media with Algol68C for PDP10 I would love to get hold of it. > > Regards > > Rob > >> -Original Message- >> From: Liam Proven via cctalk >> Sent: 04 January 2024 21:32 >> To: General Discussion: On-Topic and Off-Topic Posts >> Cc: Liam Proven >> Subject: [cctalk] RIP: Software design pioneer and Pascal creator Niklaus >> Wirth >> >> Evangelist of lean software and devisor of 9 programming languages and an >> OS was 89 >> >> https://www.theregister.com/2024/01/04/niklaus_wirth_obituary/ >> >> The great man has left us. I wrote an obituary. >> >> -- >> Liam Proven ~ Profile: https://about.me/liamproven >> Email: lpro...@cix.co.uk ~ gMail/gTalk/FB: lpro...@gmail.com >> Twitter/LinkedIn: lproven ~ Skype: liamproven >> IoM: (+44) 7624 277612: UK: (+44) 7939-087884 Czech [+ >> WhatsApp/Telegram/Signal]: (+420) 702-829-053 > There are two ways to write error-free programs; only the third works. --Alan J. Perlis David Barto ba...@kdbarto.org
[cctalk] Re: PDP-8/L $15,000
> On Aug 29, 2023, at 7:02 AM, Gavin Scott via cctalk > wrote: > > On Tue, Aug 29, 2023 at 6:22 AM Peter Coghlan via cctalk > wrote: >> You reckon someone in Moscow is wishing they heard about this trick a week >> ago? > > They instead chose the ever-popular Simplified Planetary Landing > Approach Trajectory. Ok, that’s funny right there. David A: Because it messes up the order in which people normally read text. Q: Why is it such a bad thing? A: Top-posting. Q: What is the most annoying thing in e-mail? David Barto ba...@kdbarto.org
[cctalk] Fwd: [TUHS] Pixel 100/AP UNIX Computer
> Begin forwarded message: > > From: segaloco via TUHS > Subject: [TUHS] Pixel 100/AP UNIX Computer > Date: June 7, 2023 at 12:17:14 AM PDT > To: The Eunuchs Hysterical Society > > After talking with the folks I bought the recent documents from, they let me > know they are also selling a piece of hardware: > https://www.ebay.com/itm/125714380860 > > After the link is an auction for an Instrumentation Laboratory Pixel 100/AP. > A small booklet included with the many documents I received indicates as of > 1982 the Pixel 100/AP ran a System III derivative. The booklet goes on to > present a summary of user commands and options. Despite the System III > basis, included among these are the C shell and ex/vi. > > I have no room for hardware or honestly at that price point it'd be worth the > preservation effort. Hopefully it finds a good home, it includes an almost > complete documentation set save for the small booklet I've got (which could > be separate promo material for all I know) > > In any case, there were a few letters amongst the documents suggesting the > original owner was involved in the production of this system, particularly in > the area of OS details. If I find any noteworthy information I'll pass it > along. > > - Matt G. > > P.S. If anyone knows of a preservation effort accepting new machines I can > pass this along. This was originally posted to “The Unix Historical Society” email list and I asked the original author for permission to forward it here. If anyone is interested in such equipment. David There are two ways to write error-free programs; only the third works. --Alan J. Perlis David Barto ba...@kdbarto.org
[cctalk] Re: Getting floppy images to/from real floppy disks.
> On Jun 4, 2023, at 11:54 AM, Rick Bensene via cctalk > wrote: > > > >> >>> yes. a Kombi full of tapes hurtling down the highway. >> >> ...down the Autobahn. > > > Ben F. wrote regarding transport of data in a moving vehicle: > >> the Autobahn... >> https://www.computerhistory.org/revolution/artifact/331/1893 > > Doubtful that VW Bug was on the Autobahn at the time, and, while the > advertisement was very novel with a full-on minicomputer in the back seat of > a VW Bug, the amount of data potentially being transported was likely only 4K > 12-bit words, or 48K bits. > > Since the machine had magnetic core memory, the system would retain the > content of its memory without power, so in this scenario, the VM Bug was > actually capable moving data from one point to another, albeit, not all that > much data. > > Now, if the Bug had a trailer hitch, it could tow a trailer behind it with a > gasoline or diesel powered generator with sufficient capacity to run the > PDP-8. If that were the case, the machine could actually process the data > in its memory while it was moving down the road...something a station wagon > full of reels of magnetic tape wouldn't be able to do. > Are you suggesting some kind of, say, portable computer? Runs, dodging and weaving. David A: Because it messes up the order in which people normally read text. Q: Why is it such a bad thing? A: Top-posting. Q: What is the most annoying thing in e-mail? David Barto ba...@kdbarto.org
[cctalk] Re: Getting floppy images to/from real floppy disks.
The reason for the “station wagon” going ways was the CAFE standards. The modern SUV is based on a TRUCK chassis, and thus not restricted in MPG ratings from the US government. If you have a “station wagon” that is a “car” it is thus subject to CAFE standards. Ford only makes the Mustang as a car (and that more and more only as an E-car at that), all other cars are SUV’s. Look at the car market from the standpoint of CAFE and you see that cars are more and more based on a truck base with the fuel economy of a truck. All because the US government is short sighted and myopic in what may happen if it choses to enforce some ideas of what fuel economy may be. Sorry for the rant, and the current ideas of what “cars” are is just beyond me. David From a Marketing type: Don't give me any technical reason why something can't be done. If you really believed in the product you'd make it work. David Barto ba...@kdbarto.org > On Jun 3, 2023, at 5:12 PM, Alexander Schreiber via cctalk > wrote: > > On Sat, Jun 03, 2023 at 03:03:43PM -0700, Fred Cisin via cctalk wrote: But, there is another problem. None of the auto makers still make "Station Wagon"s! >> >> On Sat, 3 Jun 2023, Alexander Schreiber wrote: >>> Not quite true. VW makes the "Variant" version of the VW Golf and >>> Mercedes still makes the "t model" of the C and E class, all of which >>> are basically station wagons. And I can confirm from experience that >>> a Mercedes C204 T model fits a complete (fully assembled) IKEA sofa, >>> so it does have _quite_ a bit of cargo volume (and, once you fold down >>> the rear seats, a nice long _flat_ loading surface). >> >> Yes, quite true. >> As stated previously, that was a gripe about fad terminology. >> Note the quotation marks in the original post. >> The same as Tony (ARD) being unable to do "Sneaker-Net", due to >> unavailability of "Sneakers" within his shopping range of his home. >> BTW, the 1992 movie "Sneakers" (was it renamed for UK showings?), with >> Robert Redford, Sidney Poitier, and James Earl Jones, was one of the first >> (if not "The First"), movie to out the existence of NSA. >> >> Many companies make suitable vehicles, but NONE of them are willing to call >> them "station wagons". If the Purchase Order explicitly specifies "Station >> Wagon", then will the bureaucrats in purchasing let you substitute a >> "Variant", instead of a "Station Wagon"? > > So the Mercedes T model was (at least in Germany, the manufacturers country) > never called a "station wagon" because that category name doesn't exist > there. The closest analogue to it in German parlance would be the "Kombi" > class of vehicles. Based upon the more numerous sedan models, but shaped > like a station wagon with a large rear door, a level trunk (usually) > and with the option of considerably expanding cargo space by folding > down the rear seats to provide a flat surface. > > And - since demand for that kind of vehicle never went away - there are > still quite a few "Kombi" variants of common sedans. As for why "nobody > makes station wagons anymore, but something like it and calls it a > different name" - I get the impression that station wagons in the US got > a bad rap as "big and wasteful" vehicles. Which is hilarious when you > think about the SUV epidemic that happened (and seems to be getting > worse still) many years later and very much redefined "big and wasteful" > (aside from "silly and dangerous to use due to high center of gravity"). > > Kind regards, > Alex. > -- > "Opportunity is missed by most people because it is dressed in overalls and > looks like work." -- Thomas A. Edison
[cctalk] Re: The World Wide Web
I believe it was Henry Spenser at a USENIX conference that said “Never underestimate the bandwidth of a station wagon filled with mag tape”. David > On May 5, 2023, at 8:59 PM, steve shumaker via cctalk > wrote: > > There used to be a running joke in the test center on Kwajalein Atoll about > the C141 full of mission tapes having a higher bit rate than the undersea > cable connecting us to the mainland. > > Steve > > On 5/5/23 7:39 PM, Chuck Guzis via cctalk wrote: >> I do remember the bad old days, when even a leased line was >> insufficiently fast or reliable to send a quantity of data. I recall >> many times taking the "noon balloon" out of San Jose with my Samsonite >> carry-on case and not so much as a toothbrush. On arrival, turn the >> contents of the case over to someone waiting at the gate, and catch the >> next flight home with an empty case. >> >> My case, which I still have, comfortably accommodates six 10.5" reels of >> tape. >> >> I remember flying on an USAF general's plane with several 844 disk >> packs. One time, I forgot my B-area badge, so the general gave me his. >> Nobody saluted, however. >> >> --Chuck >> >> >
[cctalk] CD-R, DVD-R media available
100’s of CD-R, Sony, TDK, and FujiFilm. 25-30 DVD-R Sony and TDK And CD cases sufficient to hold all the disks Heavy, available for the cost of shipping. I’m in San Diego, so local delivery is possible. David
[cctalk] Re: Miscellaneous UCSD Pascal stuff I've found
These items have all been claimed. David > On Jan 31, 2023, at 12:57 PM, grif...@mindspring.com wrote: > > Does the post office still have a book rate? > > On Jan 31, 2023 10:12, David Barto via cctalk wrote: > This is all on paper and weighs a fair bit. > Located in San Diego area, so pickup would be best. > I’m willing to ship it for 50% of the shipping cost. > > All classic computer related: > > UCSD Pascal pSystem listing from UCSD Pascal II.0 along with notes about what > BIOS failures look like. > Listing of a pascal_interpreter, written in Pascal (of course) > > Tech Notes and Books: > > Tech Notes: > Booting the CP/M Adaptable System on the IMS8000 > SofTech MicroSystems Errata sheet for the FORTRAN Manual > UCSD Pascal System Synchronous Input/Output Subsystem Implementation Guide > (II.1, Preliminary) Date 10 April 79 > SofTech MicroSystems Marketing Department memo on Version IV compatiblity > with Preceding Versions > SofTech MicroSystems Adaptable System Tech Note (TN #2) > > Books: > UCSD Pascal Version I.5 September 1978 > UCSD Pascal Version II.0 March 1979 > SofTech MicroSystems Micro News Vol I, No. 3 May 1980 > SofTech MicroSystems UCSD Pascal II.0 Users Manual Feb 1980 > SofTech MicroSystems UCSD Fortran User Reference Manual May 1980 > Practical Pascal Programs By Greg Davidson > > David > > >
[cctalk] Miscellaneous UCSD Pascal stuff I've found
This is all on paper and weighs a fair bit. Located in San Diego area, so pickup would be best. I’m willing to ship it for 50% of the shipping cost. All classic computer related: UCSD Pascal pSystem listing from UCSD Pascal II.0 along with notes about what BIOS failures look like. Listing of a pascal_interpreter, written in Pascal (of course) Tech Notes and Books: Tech Notes: Booting the CP/M Adaptable System on the IMS8000 SofTech MicroSystems Errata sheet for the FORTRAN Manual UCSD Pascal System Synchronous Input/Output Subsystem Implementation Guide (II.1, Preliminary) Date 10 April 79 SofTech MicroSystems Marketing Department memo on Version IV compatiblity with Preceding Versions SofTech MicroSystems Adaptable System Tech Note (TN #2) Books: UCSD Pascal Version I.5 September 1978 UCSD Pascal Version II.0 March 1979 SofTech MicroSystems Micro News Vol I, No. 3 May 1980 SofTech MicroSystems UCSD Pascal II.0 Users Manual Feb 1980 SofTech MicroSystems UCSD Fortran User Reference Manual May 1980 Practical Pascal Programs By Greg Davidson David
[cctalk] Re: Typing class in high school
> On Thu, Jan 26, 2023 at 5:15 PM Bill Gunshannon via cctalk < > cctalk@classiccmp.org> wrote: > >> >> And, yes, even as a male I had typing in high school. >> > > I had typing as an elective class in 7th grade in 1984. It gave me the > ability to type in programs faster. > > Sellam > > C: i took typing as a senior in 1985. The lady was a former military officer, > in her 60s or later. Everyone was scared shirtless of her. 1 puerto rican > girl who sat up front could do 90wpm. Me, I sat in the back. I'm still a very > flawed typist. Iow I suck. I took typing as an elective in summer school before my senior year of high school, in preparation for typing papers at college. I failed the class because I would backspace and overtype the wrong character. In college I used UCSD Pascal on Terak’s. So I could backspace to my hearts content. Still not a very good typist, and at least now the backspace doesn’t screw up what I send out. (I took care to count the number of times I had to backspace while typing this message: 5) David
[cctalk] Re: Flipping an 8" diskette
> On Sep 1, 2022, at 4:10 AM, jim stephens via cctalk > wrote: > > > > On 8/31/22 13:33, Liam Proven via cctalk wrote: >> Someone on Fesse Bouc just found a sealed box of SS/SD 8" floppies in >> their garage. >> >> Most FB types are too young to know 8" disks existed, of course. >> >> Someone suggested punching a notch in them and using both sides. >> >> Was that even possible on 8" disks? >> >> (TBH single-sided actually-floppy floppies are before my time and I >> never used 'em. When they were on low-end American 8-bit home >> computers, this impecunious young Brit couldn't afford floppy drives >> at all. By the time I could, 5.25" DS/DD was the cheapest drive and >> cheapest media.) >> > It would be possible but for the drives mostly being double sided. > The most useful thing for a notcher was to make AOL and other > mailer diskettes writable. Never did the double side thing > much if ever. > > Sad day when AOL changed to CDs and you then had to make > coasters or trash them. > thanks > Jim > If you have a SS/SD drive then yes, punching a notch in the sleeve would allow you to flip the disk over and use the other side. I’ve done this in the (very) distant past. Most drives these days are DS and can R/W the SD disks without issue, so I wouldn’t expect it to be necessary. David
Re: VAX 780 on eBay
> On Jan 3, 2022, at 10:19 AM, Ethan Dicks via cctalk > wrote: > > On Mon, Jan 3, 2022 at 12:29 PM Bill Gunshannon via cctalk > wrote: >> On 1/3/22 11:50 AM, Ethan Dicks via cctalk wrote: >>> I'll agree with that. We used to run 40-50 users on our 8MB 11/750 >>> (with both CMI and Unibus disk) but it did do some swapping over 8-10 >>> users. >> >> You obviously didn't use the Ada compiler. :-) >> >> Or Eunice, for that matter. > > Hell no! > > 90% of our work was in C, the rest in m68k assembler (our own), VAX > MACRO, or FORTRAN. We started off with Whitesmith's C then by the > late 80s also used DEC's VAX C. > > Compiling all the code for our product took the 11/750 6 hours to > compile and link plus an additional 2 hours for an 11/730 to link > under a different version of VMS. 8 hours total to rebuild totally > from source. Some things about the good old days weren't so good. > > -ethan At my current $WORK it takes a 40 core linux box with 200GB of RAM 22 hours to rebuild our source tree from scratch. So for some of us it hasn’t gotten any better over the years. David
Re: Motor generator
I don’t refer to them as Audio-phools. They are GESR’s. (pronounced guesser) Golden Eared Sonic Reviewers They guess this sounds better than that, so it must be worth it. David > On May 5, 2021, at 6:31 PM, Jay Jaeger via cctalk > wrote: > > I think a lot of the time audio-phools, if they will be honest with > themselves, are really trying to recreate the stereo (or even HiFi) sounds of > the 1960s because they have fond memories and like it better. THAT I have no > problem with whatsoever. > > What gets annoying is when the phools try and convince others that this old > gear somehow more accurately reproduces recordings or that the "fleecy" stuff > referred to actually makes things better. Oh well. > > JRJ > > On 5/5/2021 8:14 PM, Jon Elson via cctalk wrote: >> On 05/05/2021 07:44 PM, Donald via cctalk wrote: >>> Many thanks for all the info. I just wanted to make sure my recesses were >>> right. >>> >>> >>> I asked about MG because, in an audio forum, I see folks paying crazy money >>> for AC cords and power line conditioners. I thought a good MG would solve >>> many of the 'problems' they are trying to fix. >>> >>> >> Oh, that's audio-phoolery, the discussion topic of lots of people with a >> real understanding of electronics and physics. The audiophools have NO >> understanding, just "belief". And, they get fleeced regularly by this kind >> of stuff. >> Jon
Re: Deciphering an odd floppy disk format.
Yes, that looks very much like PL/1.
David
> On Feb 15, 2021, at 11:33 AM, Mattis Lind via cctalk
> wrote:
>
> Spent some time. Adjusted the MARK sequences to use 55424954 for address
> mark and 55424945 for data mark.
>
> That along with a stupid error in the decoder-code that I fixed now result
> in some kind of output:
>
> CNT: 003BF ADDRESS MARK: 55424954
>
> CNT: 0040F DATAMARK: 55424945 OKEY CHAR (1),
> V
>
> CNT: 006B5 ADDRESS MARK: 55424954
>
> CNT: 00705 DATAMARK: 55424945 P POINTER,
>VV V
>
> CNT: 009B7 ADDRESS MARK: 55424954
>
> CNT: 00A07 DATAMARK: 55424945 D CHAR(6) BASED(P),
>p V V O
>
> CNT: 00CA1 ADDRESS MARK: 55424954
>
> CNT: 00CF2 DATAMARK: 55424945 DATUM CHAR(6),
> 'V V
>
> CNT: 00F87 ADDRESS MARK: 55424954
>
> CNT: 00FD9 DATAMARK: 55424945 PP POINTER,
> ( V
>
> CNT: 01277 ADDRESS MARK: 55424954
>
> CNT: 012C8 DATAMARK: 55424945 1 STR BASED(PP),
> a V V
>
> CNT: 01569 ADDRESS MARK: 55424954
>
> CNT: 015BC DATAMARK: 55424945 2 X CHAR(2),
>VV$
>
> CNT: 01868 ADDRESS MARK: 55424954
>
> CNT: 018BA DATAMARK: 55424945 2 Y CHAR(2), /* 6
> = UKTO, 7 = IKSLAG*/ VV V
>
> CNT: 01B46 ADDRESS MARK: 55424954
>
> CNT: 01B99 DATAMARK: 55424945 2 FIRMA CHAR (1),
> ( V
>
> CNT: 01E34 ADDRESS MARK: 55424954
>
> CNT: 01E86 DATAMARK: 55424945 2 OP_KOD BINARY,
> V V
>
> CNT: 02120 ADDRESS MARK: 55424954
>
> CNT: 02172 DATAMARK: 55424945 2 RADANT BINARY,
>V
>
> CNT: 02415 ADDRESS MARK: 55424954
>
> CNT: 02466 DATAMARK: 55424945 T4 CHAR(4),
>V VH
>
> CNT: 02713 ADDRESS MARK: 55424954
>
> CNT: 02765 DATAMARK: 55424945 ANTAL_KONT BINARY INIT(0),
> , V VH
>
> CNT: 029FD ADDRESS MARK: 55424954
>
> CNT: 02A4D DATAMARK: 55424945 TOT_ANTAL_KONT BINARY INIT(0),
>V
>
> CNT: 02CD1 ADDRESS MARK: 55424954
>
> CNT: 02D23 DATAMARK: 55424945 VERSION CHAR(47) INIT('
> TR10KOLJA Version
> 1.1 830603');@ V
>
>
> What is the programming language? Is it PL/1?
> It seems like a record on the disk is a line!
>
>
> Den mån 15 feb. 2021 kl 18:08 skrev Mattis Lind :
>
>> I did some more research into this and found that a pattern 0x55509255 for
>> Address mark and 0x55509251 for Data mark could be used to match against
>> the incoming synchronized data stream (pre MFM decoding). These patterns
>> contain the longer flux.
>>
>> I decoded the MFM data after the address mark and both track and sector is
>> visible as what it seems to be valid bit patterns. What is interesting
>> though is that the number of sectors appear to vary among tracks. Track 0
>> had 128 address marks, while quite many had 81 sectors. Still others had 66
>> and a few had 121. I studied track 18 more in detail and there were no gaps
>> in the sector count so I guess nothing is missing. Address marks are spaced
>> over the full number of samples (around 65k per revolution).
>>
>> My guess is that the data that follows the sector ID is some kind of
>> checksum.
>>
>> I tried to understand the data field but wasn't very successful. Tried
>> backwards and forwards and with varying bit offsets for both ASCII and
>> EBCDIC. But not a single valid string. Perhaps my decoder had some fault.
>> Will do a deeper study on the data field.
>>
>> I have put some files here if anyone has some insights:
>> https://drive.google.com/drive/folders/1URC5i8AsRyP08d_ZhWRovbDp2TMgdj4B?usp=sharing
>>
>> Looking a bit further on the *.addressAndData files I see that it seems
>> that the marks should probably contain the first bit of the decoded data
>> that follows, since when MFM decoded data fields always starts with a 1 and
>> address fields always starts with a 0. Including these also makes sense
>> because then the Track and sector will end up on proper 8 bit boundaries.
>>
>>
>> /Mattis
>>
>> Den lör 13 feb. 2021 kl 21:51 skrev Mattis Lind :
>>
>>>
>>>
>>> Den lör 13 feb. 2021 kl 21:06 skrev Chuck Guzis :
>>>
On 2/13/21 11:15 AM, Mattis Lind wrote:
>As to
Re: APL\360
> On Jan 29, 2021, at 2:08 PM, Fred Cisin via cctalk > wrote: > > On Fri, 29 Jan 2021, wrco...@wrcooke.net wrote: >> Modern Visual Studio and GCC both flag the "=" in a condition, I believe. >> But if you're shipping code with 260+ warnings, who would see one more. > > In some cases, it is possible to put in preprocessor directives to alert the > compiler that you are aware of it, and to NOT generate the WARNING. > Or, in many cases to modify the code, such as EXPLICIT typedefs to not > generate warnings. > int X = PI; /* should give a warning */ > int x = (int)PI; /* should be OK, without a loss of efficiency */ > > > It's scary that code gets shipped as soon as it "seems to be working", > without confirming that ALL of the 260+ WARNINGS are deliberately over-ridden. > Whenever I start a new job the first thing I do today is enable -Werror; all warnings are errors. And I’ll fix every one. Even when everyone claims that “These are not a problem”. Before that existed, I’d do the same with lint, and FlexeLint when I could get it. And in every case, every single time I did this, for some reason the various “mysterious crash” problems would go away. Every time. But it couldn’t be those warnings, they weren’t the problem. David
Re: Seeking "MEGATEK" Sun 3/4 era (?) VME Graphics accelerator information and driver
> On Sep 13, 2020, at 3:44 PM, Al Kossow via cctalk > wrote: > > On 9/13/20 2:48 PM, null via cctalk wrote: > >> There is no terminal for it. > > Megatek started out making caligraphic displays for DG systems > those evolved into the Wizzard series. I have one with a Unibus > interface. > > They switched to raster in the late 70s eventually moving to > standalone 3D color raster terminals. > > The VME boards were their last gasp as a company as the graphics > terminal market collapsed. > > Like all of the specialized 80's VME boards, it is going to be pretty > much impossible to find software for them today. > > More to the point Megatek (myself and some others) modified the boot ROM’s in the Sun 3/XXX series machines to recognize and use these specialized boards as boot consoles. Technically they should be recognized as cg9(?) video cards if you have the correct boot ROMs. Good luck finding those however. David
Old X11/Xt/Motif books
Going through old books. If no one wants these then they go to the tip. Willing to deliver locally, split shipping over a distance. David O’Reilly Volume 4 X Toolkit Intrinsics for version 11 Volume 5 X Toolkit Intrinsics for X11 R4 and R5 Volume 4 X Toolkit Intrinsics (Motif Edition) For OSF/Motif 1.2 Volume 6A Motif Programming Manual for OSF/Motif 1.2 Volume 6B Motif Reference Manual For Motif 2.1 OSF Published OSF/Motif Programmer’s Reference Release 1.2 OSF/Motif Programmer’s Guide Release 1.2 OSF/Motif Style Guide Release 1.2 By Eric F. Johnson/Kevin Reichard X Window Applications Programming Advanced X Window Applications Programming Advanced X Window Applications Programming Second Edition (Missing CD) Power Programming Motif Second Edition (1.2)
Re: Mac 3.5" floppies for anyone who wants them
And claimed. David > On Dec 16, 2019, at 8:55 AM, Liam Proven wrote: > > On Mon, 16 Dec 2019 at 17:52, David Barto via cctalk > wrote: >> >> Last retry. I’ve still got them and if anyone wants them, let me know. > > May I pass this message on, e.g. to one of the many LowEndMac groups? > Anonymised if you prefer. > > -- > Liam Proven - Profile: https://about.me/liamproven > Email: lpro...@cix.co.uk - Google Mail/Hangouts/Plus: lpro...@gmail.com > Twitter/Facebook/Flickr: lproven - Skype/LinkedIn: liamproven > UK: +44 7939-087884 - ČR (+ WhatsApp/Telegram/Signal): +420 702 829 053
Re: Mac 3.5" floppies for anyone who wants them
Last retry. I’ve still got them and if anyone wants them, let me know. David > On Nov 11, 2019, at 1:17 AM, Geoff Reed wrote: > > Has anyone claimed these? This just came across my email. > > On 10/20/19, 11:39 AM, "cctalk on behalf of David via cctalk" > wrote: > >A collection just came to me. These are the original disks, with whatever > labels are on them. >As a set. First come first served. >If you are in San Diego I’ll arrange a swap with you locally. >If remote, we can arrange shipping. > >1.44MB unless otherwise noted. >Copyright years noted so version number might be determined along with > what version of Mac it might support. > >GRAVIS Mac Blackhawk Version 1.0 (2 disk) >ClarisWorks 4.0 (6 disks) >ClarisWorks Small Business Solutions Pack. >Correct Grammar For Mac Version 3.0 (2 disks) >APS PowerTools V 1.3.1 >Mac ally Port Xpander Driver Program (copyright 1995-1997) >Welltris, Spectrum Holobyte (800K disks, S/N 013045, 2 disks) >MicroSoft Excel Version 4.0. (800K disks, 7 Disks, copyright 85-92) >MicroSoft PowerPoint (800K disks, 4 disks, copyright 87-89) >MicroSoft Mail Version 2.0 (800k?, Copyright 85-89) >Conflict Catcher 3 (800K 1 disk) >dantz Retrospect (2 disks, copyright 97) >Suitcase II, (400K disk, S/N 4200-0103685 Copyright 86) >Hayden Books - The Internet Starter Kit for Macintosh Disk. Contains: > Eudora 1.4 > Fetch 2.1.1 > InterSLIP 1.0 > MacTCP 2.2 > Stuffit Expander 3.03 > TurboGopher 1.07 >Nova Development - American Handbook of Business Letters (800k?, Copyright > 90) >Aladdin Stuffit Lite (800k?, Copyright 87-92) >Aladdin Spring Cleaning (Copyright 96) >Connectix Ram Doubler (800k?, 1.5.1 hand written on disk, copyright 94) >CTSNET Macintosh Internet Signup > >Since my Father in law as Mac Only, I had no idea where these came from >Windows Syquest SCSI installation Diskette 1, copyright 94 >Windows 95 Syquest Installation diskette 2 >DOS/Windows & OS/2 SCSI installation diskette 3 > > > > >
Re: 8 inch floppies
Those would have fit a Terak system for UCSD Pascal. I’ve still got a few stuffed in a closet. David > On Dec 13, 2019, at 12:09 PM, Al Kossow via cctalk > wrote: > > anyone know what system these floppies are for? > https://www.ebay.com/itm/Lot-of-33-8-034-Floppy-Disks-/184071352445 > >
