[cctalk] Re: what to do with our "treasures"

[js--- via cctalk]

On 6/27/2024 10:09 PM, Bill Degnan via cctalk wrote:

Regardless I think Sellam is on to something here, there is need for a
service to manage the vintage computing collections of this who are not
predisposed to do so themselves.   At a minimum an objective consultation
and report produced by an educated appraiser of vintage computing /
electronics that can be referenced by the collector's surviving family.
Something that says, here is what you have, here are your options.

Bill



I'm interested in this, but..

- How would they be compensated?

- How would it be ensured that they didn't have a conflict of interest, 
or bias, (or an actual interest in the collection)?


- How much would such a service cost, or be priced?

JohnS.

[cctalk] Re: Chumba on discord

[js--- via cctalk]

I'm not involved, Sellam, but just the ignore the trolls.  Life is too 
short.



On 6/25/2024 9:33 PM, Sellam Abraham via cctalk wrote:

On Tue, Jun 25, 2024 at 7:29 PM Eric Moore via cctalk 
wrote:


Sellam joined the ccmp discord as "Chumba" and, among other things, claimed
long covid is not real, and doubled down on similar incendiary topics.

When we found out it was Sellam, he complained about getting "doxed".

Due to his toxic behaviour, myself and at least 2 others left the discord
we had been part of for years.

He is now threatening me with legal action, claiming that his behaviour was
not trolling, or perhaps that Chumba was not a pseudonym since the server
admin apparently knew it was him?

So this is to clarify his behaviour was toxic, and resulted in multiple
people leaving the discord, before and after they found out who "Chumba"
was. Whether that is "trolling" I suppose is up to interpretation.

He demanded I not reply to him, so I had to create a new thread. :)

-Eric


All that matters here is that you can defend your statements in a court of
law.

As indicated privately, I'm providing you 72 hours to publicly retract and
apologize.

Sellam

[cctalk] Re: Pragmatically [was: Experience using an Altair 8800 ("Personal computer" from 70s)]

[js--- via cctalk]

On 5/28/2024 6:16 PM, Fred Cisin via cctalk wrote:

On Wed, 29 May 2024, Adrian Godwin wrote:
As a child. my parents weren't sufficiently enamoured of televisions 
to buy

one, but I was given some old ones.
The one on the bottom had working sound and the one on the top had 
working

video.


When the TV wasn't working, and seemingly unrepariable (drugstore tube 
testers), my father would buy another cheap old working TV from 
Goodwill, etc.


A significant part of the time, that meant not having a working one.

So, my brother and I pooled our money to buy a 19" "portable" Philco.  
My father chipped in the balance for the UHF option ("educational" TV 
was UHF in those days).


I remember watching the "Cuban Missile Crisis" on it.
I also remember going down Massachusetts avenue in the middle of the 
night, and all embassies had all of their lights on all night.

--
Grumpy Ol' Fred ci...@xenosoft.com



Not sure it's the same model you had, but I have several of those 19" 
Philcos, at least one is still working.  The others, I'll repair.

[cctalk] FTGH: (3) Qualstar 1260 9 track tape drives pertec interface

[js--- via cctalk]

2 units working when properly stored a few years ago.  1 unit, parts unit.

Must take all 3.

Tested successfully only with a PC and a VAX.

Located in Frederick, Maryland, USA

[cctalk] Re: Apple 1

[js--- via cctalk]

On 8/25/2023 9:46 AM, Gavin Scott via cctalk wrote:

I feel like people are over-thinking the Apple 1 thing.

Apple made a lot of people rich, and I think the number of rich Apple
people who want to be able to throw parties and say stuff like, "Oh,
yes, that's my Apple I that I paid a million dollars for."
substantially exceeds the number of extant Apple I systems.

I don't think this phenomenon is applicable to very many other products.

G.



I agree, this is it.  Because the Apple 1 is an absolutely awful 
computer to use.  It's about on par with a Sinclair ZX80.   Someone else 
mentioned contemporary S-100 (micro) or DEC machines (mini).. at least 
those were real machines, still interesting to use today.  There's 
nothing interesting about using an Apple 1 (IMHO).   The Apple II, a 
whole different story.

[cctalk] Re: First non-IBM PC-DOS Compatible PC

[js--- via cctalk]

On 6/6/2023 10:22 AM, Chuck Guzis via cctalk wrote:

On 6/6/23 04:25, Bill Degnan via cctalk wrote:

There were a articles in the more technical journal-type mags 1981/82 that
discussed porting IBM DOS to non IBM 8088 systems that go into the
mechanics of it.  DOS v 1.25 was the OEM version for the early ports.
*indirectly* from these you might find references to IBM BIOS porting and
who did it, there.  I have only print copies no scans.

I was there, doing just that.  Initially, we at Durango didn't think
that strict 5150 compatibility at the BIOS level was necessary for the
Poppy.  In fact, as OEMs, DOS 1.25 was delivered with only a sample
IO.SYS meant as a "skeleton".  MS-DOS text mode, like CP/M, was
considered to be good enough.

In fact, MSDOS was never intended to be the ultimate target, but rather
an interim goal as we waited for Intel to complete the kernel for Xenix
on the 80286.  Right from the first unit, we had sockets for both the
80186 and the 80286.  Console I/O was done via serial connection.

It's a shame that few know about the early 80286 systems.

--Chuck



As much as these writings are appreciated, I often find myself 
frustration by the assumption that the audience knows everything you're 
talking about.   Just what are you talking about?   I searched this 
entire thread for mentions of "Poppy" and "Durango" and these words 
don't occur before.   What is Poppy and Durango?    Not everyone was 
"there" and knows what you're talking about

[cctalk] Re: Getting floppy images to/from real floppy disks.

[js--- via cctalk]

On 5/23/2023 5:27 PM, Sellam Abraham via cctalk wrote:

Tony,

You are extraordinarily tedious.

Sellam



He's also very funny, if you like dry British humor )

[cctalk] Re: Getting floppy images to/from real floppy disks.

[js--- via cctalk]

On 5/22/2023 5:38 AM, Tony Duell via cctalk wrote:

I hereby formally retract my erroneous suggestion of a "386 98,SP2 desktop
with floppies and USB", and replace my suggestion with:
"a PC with USB and floppies", and let Tony decide what vintage to use.

Fully concur. If it were me, I'd probably suggest some box with from
the end of the era which came with an onboard floppy controller, and
dual-boot 98SE and some old Linux that can handle such a thing, like
Slackware or Debian. That would cover the most bases.

I am sorry, but I think this is a stupid suggestion for many reasons.



It is, however, a viable suggestion, and that is better than none :)



The first problem is finding such a machine in known-working
condition. Second-hand computer shops are few and far between and
generally don't trade in machines that old. Similarly pawnbrokers
('Cash Converters' and the like) don't deal in them.



Don't they have eBay where you live?



...
And of course it has to have the right type of disk controller, I
certainly need to be able to handle single-density (FM) reading and
writing correctly. Some machines can, some can't. I am hardly going to
be able to test it before I buy it.


I wouldn't worry about the built in disk controller.  You can add the 
functionality you need with an Adaptec SCSI controller w/ floppy.




Next there's the problem of me getting it home. I don't drive. I'll go
on public transport for things that interest me and which I actually
want. An PC is not in that category. Not to mention the fact that I
doubt I could carry the system box, monitor and keyboard in one go.
Having it sent to me is inconvenient and I am not sure the machine
would survive. Not to mention it would cost more than the machine is
worth.



Why do you need a monitor and keyboard?    And since you don't drive,
again, have you heard of eBay?




Then there's the problem of keeping it going.



Why do I not have this problem?    Keeping *anything* going, even our 
own bodies, is always a "problem."




I realise that spare ICs always were unobtainium. But replacement
modules -- disk drives, motherboards, etc are no longer made or easily
available. I have no PCI cards in my collection at all. No ATX power
supplies. I might be able to find a VGA monitor but that's pushing it.



Then why even get up in the morning, if you're resigned to doom before 
even trying?   All of these things can be obtained.. EASILY.  A VGA 
monitor is NOT a challenge.



And drives. It was suggested that I get a double 5.25"/3.5" drive.
Err, no. The 5.25" is going to be 80 cylinder (to handle 1.2M disks)
which means writing to 40 cylinder disks is a bad idea.



I use a 5.25" HD drive for 80 cylinder use, and simply plug in a 360k 
drive when needed.




And I am not sure the software exists to do what I want on such a
machine. I don't want to have to write it myself!


Such software probably does exist.  If someone has had the same need, 
then it's been done.

[cctalk] Re: Computer of Thesus (CRT Risk)

[js--- via cctalk]

On 1/24/2023 12:14 PM, Steve Lewis via cctalk wrote:

To me, I'm somewhat concerned on the "health risk" of CRTs - I know there
is no direct evidence about it.  But they're fundamentally like old radar
systems, using a directed beam.


I'm a bit rusty on the subject, but as far as I understand it, 
monochrome CRTS generally have a low enough "high voltage" that you 
don't get into x-ray radiation.  Luckily, you have control over the beam 
intensity.   Keeping your image brightness as low as possible helps.  By 
dimming the image, fewer electrons are flying at the screen.


Color CRTs have a much higher CRT voltage, and you'll see warnings in 
them about the potential for x-ray radiation.  Again, keeping the images 
dimmer helps to lower the potential for (or the amount of) any radiation.


Both CRT types emit high frequency electro-magnetic fields, so if 
magnetic fields or EMF worry you, that's something to consider, but the 
fields follow the inverse square law on their strength.   6 ft away from 
such a screen, the fields are not very strong.


- John

[cctalk] Re: Computer of Thesus

[js--- via cctalk]

Hush, contact me off-list.  I have two DEC PDP-11/05's for sale, if 
that's of any interest.


On 1/23/2023 4:29 PM, h...@dec.dog via cctalk wrote:

...
—
.hush
Got interesting stuff to sell? Let me know!
Looking for DEC, IBM, CDC, SGI, Data General, and more!


On Monday, Jan 23, 2023 at 4:18 PM, js--- via cctalkmailto:cctalk@classiccmp.org)>  wrote:

On 1/23/2023 2:28 PM, Chris via cctalk wrote: @ Mike Stein

Not everything is criticism. I only corrected a rather obtuse notion about 
people replacing mechanical drives with solid state ones. Everyone would love 
to use their original equipment if it was practical. I for 1 have NO luck with 
floppy disks. Is it my part of the country? Could be.

Would a few people here be willing to share their approaches to their
collection?

I'll start. I've collected a variety of mainly DEC, HP, and Apple
machines, and have restored or repaired them slowly over time. However,
as they fail from now on, I will *not* be doing modern upgrades or
repairs. As they die, so shall they be retired or given away.

For me, it's the experience of the original sights, sounds, feels, and
yes, emotions of the original hardware that's the inspiration. So,
floppy and tape drives all the way for me, as well as original hard
drives (Mike, I'm right there with you on the IMIs :). Emulators
just don't provide what I'm looking for.

- John
Frederick, Maryland

[cctalk] Re: Computer of Thesus

[js--- via cctalk]

  On 1/23/2023 2:28 PM, Chris via cctalk wrote: @ Mike Stein

  Not everything is criticism. I only corrected a rather obtuse notion about 
people replacing mechanical drives with solid state ones. Everyone would love 
to use their original equipment if it was practical. I for 1 have NO luck with 
floppy disks. Is it my part of the country? Could be.



Would a few people here be willing to share their approaches to their 
collection?


I'll start.I've collected a variety of mainly DEC, HP, and Apple 
machines, and have restored or repaired them slowly over time.  However, 
as they fail from now on, I will *not* be doing modern upgrades or 
repairs.   As they die, so shall they be retired or given away.


For me, it's the experience of the original sights, sounds, feels, and 
yes, emotions of the original hardware that's the inspiration. So, 
floppy and tape drives all the way for me, as well as original hard 
drives (Mike, I'm right there with you on the IMIs :). Emulators 
just don't provide what I'm looking for.


- John
  Frederick, Maryland

[cctalk] Re: Old Silicon Valley poster

[js--- via cctalk]

On 12/11/2022 7:25 PM, John Foust via cctalk wrote:

Their web site locator didn't specifically let me find which offices
can do large format scanning.  It also didn't say what resolution
they can do.

I have an architect client who'd let me use his blueprint scanner/printer,
but I think it's only 300 DPI.

- John


300 dpi is more than sufficient, since the image size itself should be 
very large.

[cctalk] Re: LC:M+L (Living Computer Museum)

[js--- via cctalk]

On 10/31/2022 6:31 PM, Rich Alderson via cctalk wrote:

...

LCM+L closed its doors to the public in March 2020...

This project was the response to the original order simply to turn everything
off.  We pointed out vociferously how much damage that would do to the
dinosaurs, reminding the nontechnical powers-that-be of just how long it had
taken to make most of the vintage hardware work again, and that they could plan
on a month of restoration per month of down time...


Rich, would you describe a little about why this would be?   Why would a 
shutdown (properly done) be so difficult to recover from?


Thank you-
-John Singleton

Re: HP 9915A failed 8048

[js--- via cctalk]

On 2022-02-25 16:09, js--- via cctalk 
wrote:


Hi, folks.

   I've a HP 9915A computer with an 
interesting problem.   The motherboard 
utilizes a ceramic Intel D8048 chip.   
The problem is that this 8048 has a 
crack right across the top middle of 
it, and half of the top of the chip 
has begun to separate.


  Powering up the machine as-is 
unsurprisingly results in no 
activity.   HOWEVER, if I push firmly 
on the cracked area with my finger the 
machine starts to operate normally.   
All appearances are that clamping down 
the separating piece of the chip 
re-establishes any broken wire 
connections within the chip.


   I've obtained a replacement 
P8048AH.   My question is: do these 
chips simply swap like a CPU, or -- as 
I fear -- is the 8048 a pre-programmed 
piece?More simply put, is this a 
repairable problem?  Or am I SOL?


   Any thoughts welcomed.

- John Singleton




Hi, folks.   With the help of the 
extremely talented people here, the far 
less talented me was able to repair this 
seemingly impossible problem and get the 
9915 functional.


The process was to:

1) burn a new 8748 CPU with the 9915's 
8048 ROM code.

   I used a Data I/O 2900 for this purpose.

2) remove the remnants of the original 
8048 CPU


3) install a new milled 40 pin socket

4) install the 8748 into that socket and 
power-on test.



Thanks to Paul Berger, Will Cooke, and 
Wayne S for their useful suggestions.


A very special thanks to Tony Duell for 
offering to go to great lengths to help.


A very, very special thanks to Dave 
McGuire for having done all the hard 
work in retrieving the 8048's code to 
begin with (which he had done already 
for someone else), then providing the 
8048 ROM code to me in hex format, plus 
guidance on how to fix the problem all 
the way through.


- John S.

Re: HP 9915A failed 8048

[js--- via cctalk]

On 2/26/2022 3:21 PM, Tony Duell via 
cctalk wrote:

On Sat, Feb 26, 2022 at 5:19 PM js--- via cctalk  wrote:


As the chances of success are highly
improbable, looks like I'm SOL on this
particular motherboard.

My bench is rather full at the moment and will be for a few more weeks...

But if you get no other help and you can wait a bit, I believe one of
my old EPROM programmers can read the 8048/8748 with the right
adaptor, and the schematic of that is in the manual. I also have a
working (I hope) HP9915. So I could have a go at making said adaptor,
extracting the 8048 from my HP9915, and readng it out. You would then
have to find somebody who could program the ROM image into an 8748.

-tony



Hi, Tony!  Long time!

Thank you VERY MUCH for your very 
generous offer!


Dave McGuire was extremely kind to send 
me a ROM dump of the HP 9915's 8048, 
that he had -- to my amazement -- 
already made for himself.  So to my 
complete surprise, I do have the ROM 
contents at this point.


I've a Data I/O 2900 which supposedly 
can program the 8748, so I'll give that 
a try if I can figure out how to use it 
again (been a long time).   I've ordered 
a NOS 8748 off eBay.


I'll give all this a try and post 
results here.


- John Singleton

Re: HP 9915A failed 8048

[js--- via cctalk]

On 2/25/2022 5:09 PM, Will Cooke via 
cctalk wrote:

On 02/25/2022 2:23 PM Paul Berger via cctalk  wrote:


The 8048 is a mask programmed part, there is an EPROM version 8748.
While the 8048 is mask programmed I believe that the contents of the ROM
can be dumped.

As Paul said, the 8048 is mask programmed.  However, I agree it is readable.  I "think" 
if you follow the "verify" step in the linked datasheet you can read from the rom.

https://www.ceibo.com/eng/datasheets/Intel-8048-8049-8050-plcc-dip.pdf

Will



Thanks very much Paul, Will!

From info gleaned from this webpage 
(especially the comments at bottom):


http://www.mattmillman.com/projects/hveprom-project/an-easy-to-build-mcs-48-8748-8749-8741-8742-8048-8049-programmer-reader/


... indeed looks like there is a chance 
the HP's 8048 could be read and possibly 
programmed into an alternate part.  
However, it's a daunting task in my 
case.  I'd first have to build a 8048 
programmer/reader shield for an Arduino, 
and then try to get my cracked 8048 
successfully unsoldered from the HP 
9915A motherboard, and then attempt to 
get consistent reads from it -- a 
special challenge due the crack.


As the chances of success are highly 
improbable, looks like I'm SOL on this 
particular motherboard.


Anyone have a HP 9915 they'd like to sell?

- John Singleton

HP 9915A failed 8048

[js--- via cctalk]

Hi, folks.

   I've a HP 9915A computer with an 
interesting problem.   The motherboard 
utilizes a ceramic Intel D8048 chip.   
The problem is that this 8048 has a 
crack right across the top middle of it, 
and half of the top of the chip has 
begun to separate.


  Powering up the machine as-is 
unsurprisingly results in no activity.   
HOWEVER, if I push firmly on the cracked 
area with my finger the machine starts 
to operate normally.   All appearances 
are that clamping down the separating 
piece of the chip re-establishes any 
broken wire connections within the chip.


   I've obtained a replacement 
P8048AH.   My question is: do these 
chips simply swap like a CPU, or -- as I 
fear -- is the 8048 a pre-programmed 
piece?More simply put, is this a 
repairable problem?  Or am I SOL?


   Any thoughts welcomed.

- John Singleton

Re: 11/83 operating system load update -2

[js--- via cctalk]

On 2/23/2022 12:38 PM, Ethan Dicks via 
cctalk wrote:
Rod, My memory is that programs like 
putr need to run on "real" DOS, not a 
DOS window. So if you are trying to 
run putr without booting to MS-DOS 6.2 
or older, that could be the source of 
your problems with it.



He should be able to boot into Windows 
95 DOS (prior to running Win95) and have 
that work ok.


-js.

Re: 11/83 operating system load update -2

[js--- via cctalk]

On 2/22/2022 9:29 PM, Rod Smallwood via 
cctalk wrote:

Hi
   Well I have had a huge response to 
my request.
I am unsure as to if I have defined 
the problem properly.



Rod, you've defined the problem well enough.

Have you read the PUTR manual thoroughly?

As long as your hardware is OK, PUTR 
*should* do what you want.


What is the sequence of PUTR command 
lines that you're trying?


- John Singleton

Re: Installing an operating system on the 11/83 - update.

[js--- via cctalk]

On 2/22/2022 7:00 PM, Ray Jewhurst wrote:
I read that you can indeed use a 
standard 1.2 Meg drive and that you 
can also use DSHD 5.25 disks in place 
of RX50s. Is there any truth in this? 
If there is it will be much easier and 
cheaper to make disks for my Rainbow.



As Chuck noted, I'd think you'd want to 
use 360K media -- not DSHD diskettes... 
and ensure that the 1.2MB drive is 
slowing down to 300RPM with a data rate 
of 250KHZ.


These features will depend on the 1.2MB 
drive you have, as well as your FDC and 
imaging software.


- John Singleton

Re: Installing an operating system on the 11/83 - update.

[js--- via cctalk]

On 2/22/2022 6:42 PM, Warner Losh wrote:


On Tue, Feb 22, 2022 at 4:36 PM js--- 
via cctalk <mailto:cctalk@classiccmp.org>> wrote:



Rod,

   Not sure an RX33 (if 1.2MB
equivalent) would write working RX50
800k (double density) disks.  Very
different drives.


The RX-33 is the same sort of drive 
that you had in your PC if you wrote
RX-50s with your PC. Back in the day, 
lots of people used RX50.SYS to
have it setup the transfer rates, RPM 
and sectors per track parameters
so that you could read/write them on a 
PC running DOS. The parameters
are basically the same ones you need 
to write the 360k DOS floppies, only
with twice the number of tracks and 10 
sectors per track instead of 9 (this is
done by making the track gaps smaller 
and eeking an extra sector out of the

deal, but using at the same data rates).


Thanks for reminding me, Warner.  To recap:

The format used on a RX50 disk is:
Single Sided, 80 tracks, 10 sectors per 
track

96 TPI, 300 RPM, 250 KHz data rate
... which translates to 400K SSQD.

The format of a high density 5.25" PC 
disk is:
Double Sided, 80 tracks, 15 sectors per 
track

96 TPI, 360 RPM, 500 KHz data rate
... which translates to 1.2MB DSHD.

So to use an actual RX-50 on my PC, I 
just had to use an FDC capable of 
slowing down the data rate, and make a 
floppy cable to route the signals 
properly (minor changes from a PC floppy 
cable).


What Rod *might be* running up against 
with using PUTR and his RX-33, is that 
his RX-33 RPM and data rate might not be 
slowing down to equal that of the 
RX-50... which could be an FDC problem. 
   Does the RX-33 automatically slow 
the RPM if the data rate drops to 250khz?


- John Singleton




   I've successfully put an actual
RX-50
drive on my PC, and written RX-50
images
using PUTR.  You might try that route.


Did you have difficulties with Pin34 
not being the change disk pin? That's what
I ran into when I tried this many many 
years ago...


Warner

Re: Installing an operating system on the 11/83 - update.

[js--- via cctalk]

On 2/22/2022 11:20 AM, Rod Smallwood via 
cctalk wrote:

Hi All

  I did find some RX50 images of 
the MicroRSX distribution.
 So I fired up my DEC Celebris FX. 
It runs W95 and has a 3.5 inch floppy, 
a real RX33 5.25 inch drive and a CD-R.
   Its accessible on my network so 
getting files onto it is not a problem.
So install putR.com , and transfer 
the image files.
Huh! putR says the RX50 disk is 
write protected. Its not and the drive 
works normally with the disk from the 
MS DOS prompt.
 So much for putR writes RX50's on 
RX33!


Rod



Rod,

  Not sure an RX33 (if 1.2MB 
equivalent) would write working RX50 
800k (double density) disks.  Very 
different drives.


  I've successfully put an actual RX-50 
drive on my PC, and written RX-50 images 
using PUTR.  You might try that route.


- John Singleton

Re: Installing an operating system on the 11/83 - update.

[js--- via cctalk]

Rod,

  Not sure an RX33 (if 1.2MB 
equivalent) would write working RX50 
800k (double density) disks.  Very 
different drives.


  I've successfully put an actual RX-50 
drive on my PC, and written RX-50 images 
using PUTR.  You might try that route.


- John Singleton

On 2/22/2022 11:20 AM, Rod Smallwood via 
cctalk wrote:

Hi All

  I did find some RX50 images of 
the MicroRSX distribution.


 So I fired up my DEC Celebris FX. 
It runs W95 and has a 3.5 inch floppy, 
a real RX33 5.25 inch drive and a CD-R.


   Its accessible on my network so 
getting files onto it is not a problem.


So install putR.com , and transfer 
the image files.


Huh! putR says the RX50 disk is 
write protected. Its not and the drive 
works normally with the disk from the 
MS DOS prompt.


 So much for putR writes RX50's on 
RX33!


Rod

Re: Ultrix-11

[js--- via cctalk]

On 8/15/2021 10:08 AM, Bill Gunshannon 
via cctalk wrote:
On 8/15/21 12:45 AM, Warner Losh via 
cctalk wrote:


Distributions/DEC/Ultrix-11/Fred-Ultrix3 
in the tuhs archive has complete
instructions as well as a program to 
build the ultrix tapes




It took a day because I wanted to test 
it but I have a TK50 image that
works with SIMH.  I did an install on 
an 11/73 with 3M of memory and
two RD54's.  Worked fine.  It's been a 
while since I did any Ultrix-11

on real or simulated hardware.

Have no idea how to get this tape to 
anyone.  It's just shy of 4M. Not
sure if it could be emailed.  The SIMH 
ini file is trivially simple but

I could provide that as well.

I have nowhere I could put it up for 
download.  I don't do things like
Google Drive.  Maybe we need a GITHUB 
site or something for Ultrix stuff.


bill



Bill's file is at:

http://www.cimmeri.com/js/download/ultrix-11/

Re: HP 9817 Usage

[js--- via cctalk]

On 5/26/2020 10:30 AM, TangentDelta via 
cctalk wrote:

Hello!

I have an HP 9817 and its accompanying 9133D disk drive unit.

The disk drive seems like a rather large can of worms, so I've been ignoring 
it. I re-capped the 9817's power supply. It powers up and it passes all of its 
diagnostics according to the LEDs on the motherboard. I can see that it is 
outputting a picture on the composite video connector, but I don't have any 
displays that will accept the weird sync frequency that it uses.


Which video interface do you have?

Re: Alternative Monitor for VAXmate

[js--- via cctalk]

On 5/23/2020 8:45 AM, Rob Jarratt via 
cctalk wrote:

As it looks like I am not going to be able to repair the monitor board for
my VAXmate I am wondering if I can do anything with the outputs from the I/O
board to drive an external monitor instead.

...

I had a go at building this
http://www.dasarodesigns.com/wp-content/uploads/2014/03/pet-composite-video-
adapter.jpg feeding its output to a composite to VGA device to see if it
would convert it to VGA, but no luck.

Any ideas?


For starters, try a Viewsonic VP-150.   
Syncs horizontally from 24-61khz.  I use 
these or a
few other monitors for syncing to odd 
DEC or HP systems.


- John Singleton

Re: HPE OpenVMS Hobbyist license program is closing

[js--- via cctalk]

On 3/10/2020 8:48 AM, Bill Gunshannon 
via cctalk wrote:
On 3/10/20 2:31 AM, Dave Wade via 
cctalk wrote:




-Original Message-
From: cctalk 
 On 
Behalf Of Rod Smallwood

via cctalk
Sent: 10 March 2020 04:14
To: Fred Cisin via cctalk 

Subject: Re: HPE OpenVMS Hobbyist 
license program is closing



Like all large US corporations they 
are dollar driven




I noticed that. I wonder how they 
would feel if I were to take my VAX 
to MakeFests with a notice on saying 
how much they want for a licence to 
actually load software and demo an 
antique machine


They would not care and it would have 
no effect on their bottom

line so why should they?

bill



One reason could be, that it makes for 
good advertising and good sentiment.  
Many corps sponsor just for these reasons.


- J.

Re: Box of HP 1000 series MUX cards - 12040

[js--- via cctalk]

On 7/14/2019 12:41 PM, Guy Dunphy via 
cctalk wrote:

At 12:38 AM 14/07/2019 -0400, Jesse Dougherty wrote:

Whats your deal dude? I'm not trolling anyone. I have hundreds of these
boards here.. I don't need 170 HP 1000 Series MUX cards. They just don't
sell that often for me to hold on to. What else do you want me to do
with them. Its crazy that you are insanely upset that I cross posted on
here. If you want working 12040, I have 87 more after those. We strip
down system, build custom 1k boxes, sell parts, and buy parts.. kind of
what we do.

OK, I'll explain without so much sarcasm, what you've done and why it's 
offensive.



To us, it's _painful_ to see all those boards being treated so.

Summary:

  * We see them as likely already broken. Deliberately broken. Vandalized. By 
you.
  * And if by a miracle some are not already broken, they're very likely to
be broken after you handle them some more and ship them.
  * In this context, your asking price is an insult.
  * It's probably even an insult to gold scrappers.
  * Which suggestes that you're a bit irrational. This isn't going to
raise interest.



Guy


Just my 2 cents as a fellow 1000 (2113E) owner that wasn't offended by his 
post.  1st, they're his boards.  2nd, they're essentially useless MUX boards.   
The only value they might have to me is in the individual parts populating the 
boards themselves, which might be cannibalized to save useful boards.

Not everything can be saved.

- J.

Re: George Keremedjiev

[js--- via cctalk]

On 11/21/2018 5:46 PM, Bill Gunshannon 
via cctalk wrote:

On 11/21/18 5:19 PM, Fred Cisin via cctalk wrote:

Ed,
It is YOUR mail program that is doing the extraneous insertions, and
then not showing them to you when you view your own messages.

ALL of us see either extraneous characters, or extraneous spaces in
everything that you send!
I use PINE in a shell account, and they show up as a whole bunch of
inappropriate spaces.

Seriously, YOUR mail program is inserting extraneous stuff.
Everybody? but you sees it.


I don't.  I didn't see it until someone replied with a

copy of the offending text included.

bill


I see them, and have for a long time.

- j.

Re: Bill Godbout

[js--- via cctalk]

On 11/12/2018 7:56 PM, Chuck Guzis via 
cctalk wrote:

On 11/12/18 1:39 PM, Fred Cisin via cctalk wrote:


Google has no mention.  Yet.
How can we confirm?

Bill's family confirms and has set up a GoFundMe page for his wife and son:

https://www.gofundme.com/godbouttuckcampfirerelieffund

--Chuck


Oh, how absolutely horrible and tragic.  As a decades long CompuPro user, it's 
incredibly sad for me that Mr. Godbout lost his life - especially in this 
unimaginably terrible manner.

- J.

Re: Selling keyboards without the terminal

[js--- via cctalk]

On 10/19/2018 10:34 AM, Bill Degnan via 
cctalk wrote:

Here is a great example of why the keyboards and terminals are getting
separated

https://www.ebay.com/itm/IBM-3101-beam-spring-keyboard-purchased-new-in-1982/123422383512?hash=item1cbc8c1d98:g:sCkAAOSwfbhbwQvU

Note the price $2000 so far.  How could one blame the seller.  I wonder if
this is the terminal I sold to a buyer in California years ago when I sold
my Series/1 computer.  All he wanted was the terminal, I donated the rest
to what was the MARCH museum.  At the time I remember having a few words
with the buyer who would not also take the Series/1 system (2 racks) or the
manuals.

There is a naked terminal up for grabs if you're out his way.

Bill


B, I don't get it.  Why is the keyboard 
being sold alone, when the terminal is 
right there?


And how come this particular keyboard is 
so hugely in demand?


- J.

Re: Teac Mt-2st/20D-12-u

[js--- via cctalk]

Replied privately.

On 10/7/2018 9:56 AM, allison via cctalk 
wrote:

Group,

I have one of these TEAC Phillips tape drives.  I have a manual:

Is tape (media) available for it?

What was it typically used in?

How much storage was it?

I was digging for some paerts and found it in my collection.  I know of
no system
I have that used it but someone must have done a "Here, maybe you can
use it!".

Allison

Re: Preserved LGP-30

[js--- via cctalk]

On 7/3/2018 3:58 AM, Christian Corti via 
cctalk wrote:
On Mon, 2 Jul 2018, "j...@cimmeri.com" 
wrote:
Seriously!  Liam, don't you know that 
handling paper with your hands 
transfers oils to it and hastens its 
decay?  This is why gloves are worn 
to handle old paper artifacts.


*lol*
Especially with oiled paper tape that 
is exposed to daylight and much more.


Christian


Different kind of oils, Christian.  What 
humans leach isn't petroleum-based, and 
it degrades and carries and attracts 
bacteria.


- J.

Re: Preserved LGP-30

[js--- via cctalk]

On 7/2/2018 5:43 PM, Fred Cisin via 
cctalk wrote:
The Moravian Galley in Brno has an 
exhibition on "Computer Art 1968".
The only actual computer is a very 
well-preserved German LGP-30. I
took a few photos of it 
yesterday... and got told off for 
handling the

paper tape,
Asking people not to touch museum 
exhibits makes sense to me.
On Mon, 2 Jul 2018, js--- via cctalk 
wrote:
Seriously!  Liam, don't you know that 
handling paper with your hands 
transfers oils to it and hastens its 
decay?  This is why gloves are worn 
to handle old paper artifacts.


Seriously!  Don't they know that if it 
is within reach, then the museum 
attendees will reach over and handle?

velvet ropes and glass cases 
Muir Woods is now a TREE MUSEUM!, with 
paved fenced walkways to keep people 
from touching the ancient redwoods.  
And they charge more than a dollar and 
a half just to see 'em.


How can you balance the hands-on 
aspect that is so ESSENTIAL to the 
experience?




Yes, but Liam is no ordinary museum 
attendee - he should have the experience
to know better  :-D   Fred, I guess the 
rarity and cost of restoration of
something determines whether it can be 
presented for hands-on experiences
or not, as well as taking into account 
what the goals of the particular
museum are.  Museums are not under any 
particular obligation to have
hands-on exhibits, as that option only 
raises their operating costs.
Museums are typically show & tell... not 
show, share, and tell.
Those who must have the full experience, 
buy their own examples.


- J.

Re: Preserved LGP-30

[js--- via cctalk]

On 7/2/2018 7:51 AM, Paul Koning via 
cctalk wrote:



On Jul 1, 2018, at 10:29 AM, Liam Proven via cctalk  
wrote:

The Moravian Galley in Brno has an exhibition on "Computer Art 1968".
The only actual computer is a very well-preserved German LGP-30. I
took a few photos of it yesterday... and got told off for handling the
paper tape,

Asking people not to touch museum exhibits makes sense to me.


Seriously!  Liam, don't you know that 
handling paper with your hands transfers 
oils to it and hastens its decay?  This 
is why gloves are worn to handle old 
paper artifacts.


- J.

Re: New Listings for Sellam's Collection Sales

[js--- via cctalk]

Sellam, emailed you a few times -- no 
reply.. check your spam folder.




  Hi Folks.

I've reorganized my sales listings into a Google Sheets set. The
introductory page is here:

https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/1I53wxarLHlNmlPVf_HJ5oMKuab4zrApI_hiX0pNmy48/edit#gid=0

Use the tabs on the bottom of the sheet to navigate to the various "rooms".

New items have been added and are listed here:

https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/1I53wxarLHlNmlPVf_HJ5oMKuab4zrApI_hiX0pNmy48/edit#gid=949372371

New items are always added to the New Arrivals Niche, so that's the first
place you should check when you visit my virtual online warehouse. I will
post a message to this list and the VCFed forums whenever new items are
listed, which will occur more regularly.

As always, please inquire directly to me via e-mail for the fastest
response.

Thanks!

Sellam

Re: eBay search fail

[js--- via cctalk]

On 5/1/2018 11:26 AM, Noel Chiappa via 
cctalk wrote:

 >  From: js

 >  To take a suggestion from your playbook, I'd try asking eBay - 'I'm
 >  getting incorrect search results. Why?'

Yeah, that would be something to try, but I was wary of stirring up trouble -
eBay might decide to void the sale, etc. Maybe I should.

My message to this list was as much a warning, as it was a query if anyone
had any idea why this was happening, or if they'd seen similar behaviour
before.


I've seen similar behavior before, and other search problems.  At one point in 
time,
eBay's search engine worked just fine.  Then, a number of years ago, they 
revised their
-- supposedly making it 'smarter' -- and ever since then, it hasn't worked as 
well --
for me at least.  It seems more akin to Amazon's search engine... where no 
matter how
specific you try to get, it lists everything remotely related.

- J.

Re: eBay search fail

[js--- via cctalk]

On 5/1/2018 10:19 AM, Noel Chiappa via 
cctalk wrote:

Come on people, please i) try doing some actual research to see if theories
hold water, don't just quickly post, and ii) read prior posts thoroughly.

This is your thing to research.  Please take suggestions for what they are.


Searching for "pdp-11" (where the "'s are to indicate what's in the search
box, and are _not_ typed into the search box) turns up a host of items - all
PDP-11, and none PDP-8, so it's not searching for "PDP -11".

Good to know -- thanks.



And as I have pointed out several times already, searching for "PDP-11 parts"
in sold items turns it up, despite there being a "-" in the middle of a search
term).


Then, overall - I dunno. To take a suggestion from your playbook, I'd try 
asking eBay -
- 'I'm getting incorrect search results. Why?'

- J.

Re: eBay search fail

[js--- via cctalk]

It could possibly be the "-" sign.  I 
use that to exclude tokens from a search.


So "pdp -parts" should list all pdp 
items that are NOT parts.


- J.

On 5/1/2018 8:44 AM, Noel Chiappa via 
cctalk wrote:

 >  From: W2HX

 >  I filter on category "Computers/tablets&  Networking." It might not have
 >  shown up in your search if you searching in "Vintage Computing"
 >  category.

Oh, I forgot to mention: I always search in 'All Categories' precisely to
avoid misfiled entries (like this one). (For a while it was defaulting to
"Vintage Computing" for the "PDP-11" and "DEC Digital" searches, which I had
to manually reset to 'All Categories'.)

But that's not it: go into the eBait search, enter "PDP-11", and select 'Sold
Items", it's not there; add "parts" to the search, and up it pops! WTF?!?!?

Noel

Re: HP 9816 CP/M-68K

[js--- via cctalk]

On 2/12/2018 3:52 PM, Glen Slick via cctalk wrote:

On Mon, Feb 12, 2018 at 12:34 PM, Eric Smith via cctalk
  wrote:

Format a track with the sector size that occurs later on the track, with
dummy sectors ahead of them and gap sizes selected to position them
properly.
Start formatting with the sector size for the earlier sectors. Abort the
format at the time when the desired number of sectors have been written.

I'm not sure whether there's any way to abort a track format on a PC. I did
it on a machine that had control over the μPD765 reset pin.


Bit 2 of the Digital-Output Register at 0x3F2 resets the FDC when the
bit is clear.

I used that on my 5150 back in the day when I bought it new to
reproduce a copy protected disk that used sectors with bad CRCs as one
of its protection mechanisms. Feed the sector data a byte at a time to
the FDC in PIO mode so that the timing is controlled, then toggle the
FDC reset bit in the DOR just at the time when the CRC is being
written.


That's really "slick," Glen.If it's not too burdensome to give a 
brief answer, how would you keep track of the time, or know how long 
feeding a byte at a time took?


- John

Re: Maxtor full-height 5.25" drives of death

[js--- via cctalk]

On 2/9/2018 12:25 PM, Chuck Guzis via 
cctalk wrote:

On 02/09/2018 05:20 AM, allison via cctalk wrote:


At the other extreme I have over a dozen Quantum D540s (RD52 31mb full
height)
that are really old and getting older and still work without issues. 
Some of those

have sat on the shelf for a decade and work fine when I need one.

I've still got a Q540 mounted on its side in a MAD Intelligent Systems
case--I fired it up about a week ago and it's still working just fine.

--Chuck



A tangential question out of curiosity: 
who here has 5.25" MFM drives they're 
extremely surprised are still working, 
and which model(s)?


I'll start.  I've quite a few MFM 
drives, but the ones that really 
surprise me are (2) Seagate ST-506, and 
(2) IMI CM-5412.   My surprise is b/c 
these are amongst the earliest of models.


I've performed *some* work on all these 
drives, such as cleaning and caps 
reforming, but haven't yet discovered a 
way to lube motors & bearings.   I think 
lube issues will spell their ultimate 
demise.


- John

Re: DEC tape drives and cards

[js--- via cctalk]

On 1/6/2018 5:51 AM, shad via cctalk 
wrote:

Hello,
I have some doubt about DEC tape units and related interfaces.

What I know about (right or wrong, please correct):
- TU80 is a Pertec drive, it needs M7454 (unibus, TS11 driver) which is a
modified Dilog DU132. No option for QBUS.

- TS05 is a Pertec drive, it needs TSV05 (qbus, TSV05 driver) which is a
modified Emulex ???)

- TU81 plus is LESI or Pertec, you need KLESI (unibus / qbus, TMSCP driver).

Now the questions:
I have both a TU80 and TU81plus, and both Unibus and Qbus machines, but no
interfaces.
I would like to connect at least TU80 to unibus, and TU81 to qbus, but for
backup reasons it would be better to have both drives on both busses.

What are the DEC or third party card which would fit better on my drives,
and/or which would offer better driver compatibility with various OSs (via
switchable configuration).

I'm not sure about interface compatibility (Pertec interfaces could be
swapped),
and driver compatibility (what is better for RT11, what for BSD, what for
VMS).

I would accept also some offer to my email, if somebody has something
interesting to sell (better if in EU).

Thanks
Andrea


I only have SCSI tape drives, and a TS05.  But take a look at the various 
Emulex tape controllers.   I believe TS11 and TMSCP emulations are what you'd 
want.


TC02Q   Emulex Pertec-interface tape drive controller.
Emulates TS11. Early revisions incompatible
with VMS.

TC02Q   Emulex Pertec-interface tape drive controller.
Emulates TS11. Early revisions incompatible
with VMS. Supports 1-4 Cipher F880, CDC 92181,
Kennedy 6809, and Pertec F1000.

TC02/FS Q   Emulex .5" reel-to-reel tape controller,

TC05Q   Emulex CDC Sentinel .25" cartridge tape controller.
Emulates TS11. Supports CDC 92192 Sentinel.

TC05/SX Q   Emulex .5" reel-to-reel tape controller.

TC11/N  U   Emulex .5" reel-to-reel tape controller.
Emulating TM11/TU10.

TC11/P  U   Emulex .5" reel-to-reel tape controller.
Emulating TM11/TU10.

TC11/V  U   Emulex .5" reel-to-reel tape controller.
Emulates MT11/TU10. Needs Emulex VAX/UT software.

TC12U   Emulex .5" reel-to-reel tape controller.
Emulates TS11. 22-bit. Supports 1-4 Cipher F880,
CDC 92181, Kennedy 6809, and Pertec F1000.

TC12/FS U   Emulex .5" reel-to-reel tape controller,

TC13Q   Emulex Pertec-interface tape drive controller.
Switchable TU81 TMSCP or TS11 emulation.

TC13U   Emulex Pertec-interface tape drive controller.
Switchable TU81 TMSCP or TS11 emulation. Supports
1-4 Cipher F880, CDC 92181, Kennedy 6809, and
Pertec F1000.

{above excerpted from M. Gentry's Field Guide)


- js.

Re: ID board Dilog SU723A

[js--- via cctalk]

On 1/8/2018 3:03 PM, shad via cctalk 
wrote:

Hello,
I also have a Dilog SU723A, but never managed to find any docs for it.
My board is revision D.
It works be very nice to find something.

As the MSCP / TMSCP selection is only a matter of firmware, I wouldn't be
surprised if the MSCP SU726A was the same board with different PROM.

Andrea


Does the 723 work differently than the 726?

I'd saved the below 726 info from somewhere.


Info re Dilog SU726A


There is, indeed, a serial port. I have 
found documentation for other
DiLog boards and on them the serial port 
is relatively standard
(unlike the Viking, on which the serial 
signals are embedded on the

SCSI connector I think).

The documentation also suggests there 
may be two methods to get at

setup from the system console.

The first method (loading 7 into 
 and then jumping to 2000)
hasn't worked so far. I am about to try 
booting from 175000 to see if
that works. Otherwise, I will have to 
look for the appropriate serial

cable.


The documentation I have for a different 
DiLog board gives a Digital
part number BC20N-05 for the serial 
cable, and also gives the pin-outs.



Here are the details:

Method 1: You need to know what address 
the board is set for. The
board has two consecutive addresses in 
the I/O page. In console ODT,
open up the first address and deposit 0. 
Open up the second address
and deposit 7. Start executing at 
location 2000, thus:


@17760344/xx 0
@17760346/xx 7
@2000g


Method 2: Install jumpers at JP13 and 
JP14. Boot from address

175000, thus:

@175000g

In either case you get an "*" prompt. 
Type FT to start the setup
program. (You can also specify a device 
to boot from by entering a

device name and unit number here.)

Hope this helps the next guy.

- Rob
Rob Brown br...@gmcl.com
http://gmcl.com/

Re: Argh--my old faithful HP16C is failing!

[js--- via cctalk]

On 12/24/2017 12:14 AM, Curious Marc via cctalk wrote:

I did not find a good emulation on the PC. There is one that had a good demo 
but costs $20, and I was never able to buy it, their buying site has a bug.

Marc


http://hp15c.com/

Re: RX02 Difficulties

[js--- via cctalk]

On 12/8/2017 2:13 PM, Aaron Jackson via 
cctalk wrote:

I wonder if there's a problem with the floppy you are using?

Remember, the RX0x drives can't hard reformat the floppies (as in, write the
sector headers), so if the floopy has a problem, you can't fix it with the
RX02.

Noel

Possibly, but I ran the same test on about 4 floppies and failed in the
same way. I bought a box of 13 floppy disks a while ago off eBay, so
unless the box was kept on top of a magnet or something, I'd expect at
least one of them to work.


On the contrary, I wouldn't expect ANY of your floppy disks to work.

Having been through getting an RX01 rejuvenated and working again, I had to 
fresh format some diskettes.

- J.

Re: HP 900 model 300 monitor

[js--- via cctalk]

On 10/1/2017 12:02 PM, Tony Duell via 
cctalk wrote:

On Sun, Oct 1, 2017 at 5:18 PM, js--- via cctalk<cctalk@classiccmp.org>  wrote:

You need a 25khz monitor.   Here's a list I've compiled over the years.

25khz 640x400 SOG monitors

HP 98204A (used with 82913A 12" 640x240 and 82912A 9" 640x240 monitors)

Are you sure about that one? The HP98204A that I have gives TV rate composite
video, and those 2 monitors are re-badged NEC composite TV rate monitors
with AFAIK no internal changes.

Those two are TV rate as you say (240 lines is the giveaway).  I just had them 
in there to remind me what NOT to use for 25khz.





HP 98204B (used with 35721 14" 640x400 and 35731 12" 640x400 monitors)

That' the one I know. I've go the HP35731 monitor and hope never to have
to repair it agan. It is painful to work on!


I have both the 35721 and the 35731 here 
to repair.  Yes, the 35731 is no fun to 
take apart.  The late, very kind Jon 
Johnston sent me the innards of a 
non-working 35721 all the way from 
Australia so that I could have a better 
chance of repairing my own non-working 
35721 (hoping for different failures in 
the two, thus combined would produce a 
working unit again).


- J.

Re: HP 900 model 300 monitor

[js--- via cctalk]

You need a 25khz monitor.   Here's a 
list I've compiled over the years.


25khz 640x400 SOG monitors

HP 98204A (used with 82913A 12" 640x240 
and 82912A 9" 640x240 monitors)
HP 98204B (used with 35721 14" 640x400 
and 35731 12" 640x400 monitors)
HP 98543A (used with 35741 12" 640x400 
RGB monitor)


CRT
- Hitachi CM1587
- Hitachi CM1711

LCD
- NEC LCD1510+ (not tested)

- NEC LCD1810 (LA-1831JMW-1)
  Mac + PC -- fair performance, poor 
scaling.
  HP 300/98543 -- works, but banded 
background cannot be completely
 faded to black (I got rid of my 
1810's for this reason).


- Viewsonic Vp150
  HP300/98543 -- works well, great 
background, colors only fair.


- Viewsonic VP181
  HP 300/98543 -- not perfect but can 
be adjusted ok.
banded background *can* be faded to 
black.



- J.

On 10/1/2017 2:24 AM, devin davison via 
cctalk wrote:

I found another HP machine at the scrapyard today. I have another
similar model that boots up to HP basic. I do not see an exact model
number anywhere on it, all i see is Hp 9000/300 on the front. It
appears similar to the other machine i have, although this machine
lacks the vga port and has what looks to be just a composite port
marked Video. I have not managed to get it working with any of my
monitors. All the nicer lcd monitors i have around here just say no
signal. I tried a sony crt monitor, one that is usually my go to for
when my lcd monitors do not work. When connected to a composite jack i
definitely see something somewhat resembling a boot up screen with
letters, but out of focus/sync and un readable.

Does anyone out there know of what kind of video this thing puts out
and what kind of monitor i would need?

The model i have is as seen in the picture on this page at the Hp
computer museum

http://www.hpmuseum.net/exhibit.php?class=1=40

--Devin

Re: formatting MFM drives on a IBM PC

[js--- via cctalk]

On 9/29/2017 9:54 PM, Chuck Guzis via cctalk wrote:

On 09/29/2017 07:04 PM, Warner Losh via cctalk wrote:


I think there are two barriers to that. No sata is a cards. And BIOS of
that era still required you to tell it the chs for the drive...

So, let's change the acronym to SSATA - "Serial Sort-of AT Attachment"

--Chuck


SPATA - "Serial Post AT Attachment"

-- J.

Re: Why women were the first computer programmers

[js--- via cctalk]

..

On 8/24/2017 6:14 PM, Toby Thain via 
cctalk wrote:

Please note that I said to keep things in a historical perspective and 
on-topic. I don't think that is saying sexism is ok.

On a technical list with adults, I believe that when someone posts something 
on-topic which has portions you do not personally like that perhaps the adult 
thing is to take the points that are in-common and expand on them, leaving the 
points behind that you find offensive or inappropriate. The rest will be dealt 
with off-list, as I have done in the past.


*Did* you, in this instance?

Because when somebody posts such vile, wrong, offensive and harmful
essentialist hogwash, as Rod did, on a public list, I would be expecting
swift action from the moderator...



Peoples' reactions following what Rod 
wrote are really bewildering me, at 
least -- a moderate.  I'm not quitting 
the list.   What would happen if for 
example everyone here suddenly revealed 
their political or religious or other 
leanings, and it were found that that 
within the membership, there were some 
neo-Nazis, KKK members, or ISIL members 
who happened to have a vintage computing 
interest -- but who never inflicted the 
membership with their ideologies?   
Would there be a mass ejection?


I'm willing to bet that if everyone DID 
reveal themselves, there'd be all kinds 
of chaos.  So, It's because we're all 
here and ONLY talking about one subject, 
that allows things to remain cooperative.


Isn't this why it's often advised to 
never discuss politics or religion in 
the workplace?



Next point: has anyone here run Rod's 
observation by any actual women, just 
for a reality check?   Of course, 
different women are going to have 
different reactions to it, but it'd be 
interesting.


I read his opinion as just an opinion 
and an _observation_ -- not something 
that he himself was inflicting on 
women.   It's obviously not exactly the 
most modern of opinions, and suffers 
from being a stereotypical 
generalization, but to my older eyes, it 
has a smidge of truth to it, from one 
angle.   In the end, though, as everyone 
knows, stereotypes aren't universally 
true, and at least many women will do 
whatever it is they want to do regardless.


- J.

Re: CFL

[js--- via cctalk]

On 5/22/2017 6:39 AM, Diane Bruce via cctalk wrote:

On Mon, May 22, 2017 at 07:20:34AM -0400, Ken Seefried via cctalk wrote:

And if you break one you  have to call HAZMAT.  You did realize that,
didn't you?  They contain mercury and any breakage requires professional
remediation by law!!

Please quit spreading this urban legend.  Some care in handling is
recommended, but no professional help is required, by law! or
otherwise.

https://www.epa.gov/cfl/cleaning-broken-cfl


Fluorescent bulbs contain more mercurty than CFL's yet no one worries
about them breaking.

https://www3.epa.gov/region02/waste/spent-lamp.pdf

72 Diane VA3DB


Maybe you don't, but I sure worry about fluorescents AND CFLS's breaking.
Although the document you link to is specific for businesses in just
4 states, the entire document IS concerned with the hazard these bulbs
are.

- J.

Re: Extracting files off “unknown” 8 inch disks. Any thoughts…

[js--- via cctalk]

On 5/5/2017 2:33 PM, Fred Cisin via 
cctalk wrote:
On Fri, 5 May 2017, Bill Gunshannon 
via cctalk wrote:
But I thought the problem was that 
most disk controllers can't do RX02.
Everybody doesn't have a Catweasel or 
Cryoflux.


That's right.
Chuck's suggestion would require that 
somebody who has a flux-transition 
device (Catweasel, Kryoflux, Central 
Point Option board, etc.) would have 
to do the sector imaging.


Well, or, . . .
somebody who has an RX02 setup, such 
as you or Allison, could image the 
sectors, instead of copying the 
files,  which might be appropriate if 
it turns out that the OS that these 
were created with is unavailable.   
How many operating systems use RX02?


In case not everyone noticed, but 
Terry's already given up on this.


It is not necessary to become challenged 
by and read every mystery disk in the 
entire world.  Things that are 
forgotten, probably don't deserve all 
this attention.


- J.

Re: Extracting files off “unknown” 8 inch disks. Any thoughts…

[js--- via cctalk]

On 5/4/2017 6:39 PM, Terry Stewart via 
cctalk wrote:

And yet, if there were an RX02 somewhere on this VAX, I don't believe

you'd be able to read them at all... RX02 seeming more likely with a VAX.

Interestingly PUTR, does seem to accommodate this, and the kind of system I
have set up (i.e. 1.2 MB 5.25 inch in CMOS even though it's an 8 inch
drive).



If you'll have a look at the PUTR 
manual, it says on page 1,


"The 'RX02' format used by PUTR is 
actually IBM System 34 format,
since DEC's 8" DD disks use a 
strange combination of SD headers
with non-standard ID marks, and 
DD data fields, that can't be
accessed with a standard PC FDC 
regardless of the software used."


- J.

Re: Extracting files off “unknown” 8 inch disks. Any thoughts…

[js--- via cctalk]

On 5/4/2017 6:16 PM, Terry Stewart via 
cctalk wrote:

If these are from a VAX, could they be microcode disks for a 11/780?

There was a RX01 attached via a LSI-11 as console.


And yet, if there were an RX02 somewhere 
on this VAX, I don't believe you'd be 
able to read them at all... RX02 seeming 
more likely with a VAX.


- J.

Re: PDP-8/a cleaning

[js--- via cctalk]

On 4/25/2017 11:34 AM, Pete Turnbull via 
cctalk wrote:
On 25/04/2017 15:55, Tapley, Mark via 
cctalk wrote:
On Apr 25, 2017, at 8:51 AM, allison 
via cctalk  
wrote:


Even after all that I'd still dry it 
with a little heat (oven at 180F or 
a clean empty

container in the sun.


Irrelevant for backplanes, but for 
circuit boards, would any UV-erasable 
PROMs want to be checked to ensure 
their caps/covers are still in place 
before exposure to sunlight?


Definitely.  It takes a while, but 
even behind window glass (which is 
barely transparent to short wavelength 
UV) EPROMs can eventually lose their 
content.  It happened to a friend who 
had a machine with no top cover, on a 
desk under a window, after about 5 
years.  But in direct sunlight, 
certainly just hours, and possibly 
just several tens of minutes if you're 
unlucky.





Is the same true even if they have 
either a paper stick or a foil sticker 
over the eprom window?   I would *guess* 
that stickers slow or stop the process 
altogether.


- J.

Re: AC magnetic field strengths

[js--- via cctalk]

That is in fact how I spot degauss CRT screens, but using a flat wood 
boring bit (metal, obviously, instead of a paint stick) with the magnet 
stuck on the end, spun around with a drill.


- J.

On 3/16/2017 6:37 PM, dwight via cctalk wrote:

It sounds like one can make a fine tape degausser by connecting

a super magnet to the end of a paint stirring rod and use a drill

to spin it.

Dwight



From: cctalk  on behalf of Tapley, Mark via 
cctalk
Sent: Wednesday, March 15, 2017 11:51:07 AM
To: General Discussion: On-Topic and Off-Topic Posts
Subject: Re: AC magnetic field strengths

On Mar 15, 2017, at 12:01 PM, Al Kossow via cctalk  
wrote:


I bought an AlphaLabs GM-2 Gaussmeter for another project, and measured the AC 
magnetic
field strength touching these devices yesterday, since I really didn't have any 
idea beyond
order of magnitude what they might be

Handheld tape head demagnetizer: 40 Gauss
GC Elec 9317 CRT degausing coil: 70 Gauss
Audiolab TD-3 desktop bulk eraser: 1000 Gauss
Inmac 7180 or
RS 44-233A handheld bulk tape erasers: 2000 Gauss



also the DC field of a 1/4" button super magnet like on the
backs of clip on badges is about 3000 Gauss

More context available at:

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Orders_of_magnitude_(magnetic_field)

ranging from 50 femtoGauss (what the Gravity Probe B SQUID magnetometers 
measured with several days’ averaging) to 100 MegaGauss (strongest pulsed field 
ever obtained at Sandia Labs).

Interestingly that page claims 12.5 kGauss for a "neodymium–iron–boron (Nd2 
Fe14 B) rare earth magnet” (subscripts on the atomic symbols got converted to plain 
text during cut-n-paste). Guess the badges have weaker versions?

Interesting to compare earth field and the badge fastener field to practical 
exposure limit for pacemakers - only about a factor of 10 at the poles - and to 
loudspeaker coils, which are 5000 times above the recommended pacemaker limit.

Now I know why people with pacemakers don’t like rock music (and name tags)!

:-)

 - Mark

Re: Pair of Twiggys

[js--- via cctalk]

On 3/15/2017 11:35 AM, Liam Proven via 
cctalk wrote:

On 15 March 2017 at 14:17, geneb via cctalk  wrote:

Well hooray for Xerox.  Apple still obtained the concepts from Xerox,
regardless of the mechanism.

Only some and only very basic ones.

Icons for files, the "OK" and "Cancel" buttons, scroll bars, all kinds
of utterly basic stuff were invented at Apple.


Yeah, god forbid you confuse the poor user with more than one button.

Jeez, Gene, can't you find some _new_ nonsense?

This one is quantifiable and measurable. More buttons means more
cognitive delay.


Maybe cognitive delay is a good thing.   
Separates the wheat from the chaff.


Eg. "God forbid" there be automobiles 
with only one button (start).


- JS.

Re: Looking for Apollo Workstations for TV show

[js--- via cctalk]

On 3/13/2017 3:24 PM, Toby Thain via cctalk wrote:

On 2017-03-13 4:15 PM, Al Kossow via cctalk wrote:



If it says "Earth is destroyed, the programmers failed"



You appear to have no clue what "Halt and Catch Fire" is.





...But if the TITLE of the show says "stuff catches fire" that's a 
pretty big warning right there.


The episode where a truckload of computers caught fire has already passed.

The show generally appeasr to treat the machinery respectfully, except 
some of the actors have a penchant for putting food or beverages on top 
of various units which -- I don't know about you -- makes me fidgety.


- J.