[cctalk] Re: WWVB
> > Your original email with the link did not make it into the digest, which is > what I receive. > > Chirs, Did you also send it directly to Bill. Perhaps that is what he got. > > Bob Yes, sorry. I sent the follow-up hastily on an iPad, and the URL I thought I was pasting was an image and some junk. DennisB let me know of my fail as the list stripped the image and the junk, leaving nothing to forward. I tried again from a real computer where plain text is still a thing and that was what made the list. Bill likely got both attempts. Anyway, hopefully that particular project is useful or if not, there are similar solutions out there. Chris
[cctalk] Re: WWVB
I'm in San Jose, Calif. I have a cheap clock that I picked up at a garage sale. It being a cheap clock, uses a ferite rod, so is quite directional. Also, I need to place it in a window as well. It seems to pick up the signal at least once a day, most likely after dark. Mine blinks the antenna signal when it thinks it is receiving the signal and then has a solid one when it updates, for a day. These are all different so your milage may vary. Dwight From: Robert Feldman via cctalk Sent: Monday, January 15, 2024 12:17 PM To: cctalk@classiccmp.org Cc: Robert Feldman Subject: [cctalk] Re: WWVB >Message: 17 >Date: Mon, 15 Jan 2024 12:52:15 -0500 >From: Bill Gunshannon >Subject: [cctalk] Re: WWVB >To: cctalk@classiccmp.org >Message-ID: >Content-Type: text/plain; charset=UTF-8; format=flowed > >On 1/15/2024 10:47 AM, Chris Elmquist via cctalk wrote: >> On Sunday (01/14/2024 at 09:55PM -0600), Chris Elmquist via cctalk wrote: >>> There are a number of WWVB simulator projects out there that will transmit >>> a weak but usable signal to your clock after getting sync’d from ntp or GPS >>> NMEA time messages. They were developed to help people develop receivers >>> :-) One in particular uses an AVR and it should be pretty simple to make >>> it do the “old protocol”. You’d then hide this behind your clock and it >>> will sync to it instead of the actual WWVB signal. Solves the protocol >>> problem and the weak signal problem from real WWVB with one little circuit. >>> >>> If Google does not provide, I can dig up some links tomorrow. >> >> Hmm. Strange. I did follow-up shortly after the above post with this >> link, >> >> https://www.instructables.com/WWVB-Simulator/ >> >> but I don't see that that made it to the list. >> >> Chris >> > >It did. I got it. > >bill Your original email with the link did not make it into the digest, which is what I receive. Chirs, Did you also send it directly to Bill. Perhaps that is what he got. Bob
[cctalk] Re: WWVB
>Message: 17 >Date: Mon, 15 Jan 2024 12:52:15 -0500 >From: Bill Gunshannon >Subject: [cctalk] Re: WWVB >To: cctalk@classiccmp.org >Message-ID: >Content-Type: text/plain; charset=UTF-8; format=flowed > >On 1/15/2024 10:47 AM, Chris Elmquist via cctalk wrote: >> On Sunday (01/14/2024 at 09:55PM -0600), Chris Elmquist via cctalk wrote: >>> There are a number of WWVB simulator projects out there that will transmit >>> a weak but usable signal to your clock after getting sync’d from ntp or GPS >>> NMEA time messages. They were developed to help people develop receivers >>> :-) One in particular uses an AVR and it should be pretty simple to make >>> it do the “old protocol”. You’d then hide this behind your clock and it >>> will sync to it instead of the actual WWVB signal. Solves the protocol >>> problem and the weak signal problem from real WWVB with one little circuit. >>> >>> If Google does not provide, I can dig up some links tomorrow. >> >> Hmm. Strange. I did follow-up shortly after the above post with this >> link, >> >> https://www.instructables.com/WWVB-Simulator/ >> >> but I don't see that that made it to the list. >> >> Chris >> > >It did. I got it. > >bill Your original email with the link did not make it into the digest, which is what I receive. Chirs, Did you also send it directly to Bill. Perhaps that is what he got. Bob
[cctalk] Re: WWVB
On 1/15/2024 10:47 AM, Chris Elmquist via cctalk wrote: On Sunday (01/14/2024 at 09:55PM -0600), Chris Elmquist via cctalk wrote: There are a number of WWVB simulator projects out there that will transmit a weak but usable signal to your clock after getting sync’d from ntp or GPS NMEA time messages. They were developed to help people develop receivers :-) One in particular uses an AVR and it should be pretty simple to make it do the “old protocol”. You’d then hide this behind your clock and it will sync to it instead of the actual WWVB signal. Solves the protocol problem and the weak signal problem from real WWVB with one little circuit. If Google does not provide, I can dig up some links tomorrow. Hmm. Strange. I did follow-up shortly after the above post with this link, https://www.instructables.com/WWVB-Simulator/ but I don't see that that made it to the list. Chris It did. I got it. bill
[cctalk] Re: WWVB
On Sunday (01/14/2024 at 09:55PM -0600), Chris Elmquist via cctalk wrote: > There are a number of WWVB simulator projects out there that will transmit a > weak but usable signal to your clock after getting sync’d from ntp or GPS > NMEA time messages. They were developed to help people develop receivers :-) > One in particular uses an AVR and it should be pretty simple to make it do > the “old protocol”. You’d then hide this behind your clock and it will sync > to it instead of the actual WWVB signal. Solves the protocol problem and the > weak signal problem from real WWVB with one little circuit. > > If Google does not provide, I can dig up some links tomorrow. Hmm. Strange. I did follow-up shortly after the above post with this link, https://www.instructables.com/WWVB-Simulator/ but I don't see that that made it to the list. Chris -- Chris Elmquist
[cctalk] Re: WWVB
Sceptical that MSF is a jammer for WWVB in North America. DCF (77k5, German) commonly provides better signal strength / reception than MSF in the UK. However, if RF is involved ... Martin -Original Message- From: Nigel Johnson Ham via cctalk [mailto:cctalk@classiccmp.org] Sent: 15 January 2024 01:47 To: Jonathan Chapman via cctalk Cc: Nigel Johnson Ham Subject: [cctalk] Re: WWVB That would be good old MSF! https://www.npl.co.uk/msf-signal I wasn't aware of it being heard in NA though - maybe being in the great lakes is a bit too far. Bit it should still sync correctly! cheers, Nigel On 2024-01-14 20:41, Jonathan Chapman via cctalk wrote: >> I agree with Don on the interference. We have a very high noise floor >> here in Toronto as well as being on the fringe > IIRC there's something on-frequency in England that often swamps WWVB on the > northeastern part of North America, too! > > Thanks, > Jonathan -- Nigel Johnson, MSc., MIEEE, MCSE VE3ID/G4AJQ/VA3MCU Amateur Radio, the origin of the open-source concept! Skype: TILBURY2591
[cctalk] Re: WWVB
There are a number of WWVB simulator projects out there that will transmit a weak but usable signal to your clock after getting sync’d from ntp or GPS NMEA time messages. They were developed to help people develop receivers :-) One in particular uses an AVR and it should be pretty simple to make it do the “old protocol”. You’d then hide this behind your clock and it will sync to it instead of the actual WWVB signal. Solves the protocol problem and the weak signal problem from real WWVB with one little circuit. If Google does not provide, I can dig up some links tomorrow. Chris N0JCF -- Chris Elmquist > On Jan 14, 2024, at 9:10 PM, Bill Gunshannon via cctalk > wrote: > > > > Will Cooke and Jonathon Chapman explained it. > > A change to the protocol that old clocks don't know about. > > bill
[cctalk] Re: WWVB
Will Cooke and Jonathon Chapman explained it. A change to the protocol that old clocks don't know about. bill
[cctalk] Re: WWVB
That would be good old MSF! https://www.npl.co.uk/msf-signal I wasn't aware of it being heard in NA though - maybe being in the great lakes is a bit too far. Bit it should still sync correctly! cheers, Nigel On 2024-01-14 20:41, Jonathan Chapman via cctalk wrote: I agree with Don on the interference. We have a very high noise floor here in Toronto as well as being on the fringe IIRC there's something on-frequency in England that often swamps WWVB on the northeastern part of North America, too! Thanks, Jonathan -- Nigel Johnson, MSc., MIEEE, MCSE VE3ID/G4AJQ/VA3MCU Amateur Radio, the origin of the open-source concept! Skype: TILBURY2591
[cctalk] Re: WWVB
> I agree with Don on the interference. We have a very high noise floor > here in Toronto as well as being on the fringe IIRC there's something on-frequency in England that often swamps WWVB on the northeastern part of North America, too! Thanks, Jonathan
[cctalk] Re: WWVB
I agree with Don on the interference. We have a very high noise floor here in Toronto as well as being on the fringe, and an older watch in the same window as my two Citizens frequently comes up with a fantastic date and time - possibly due to lack of data redundancy are error-checking. 73 de Nigel ve3id On 2024-01-14 16:45, Don R via cctalk wrote: I also have a decades old SkyScan WWVB LCD wall clock which has survived a few sets of leaking AA batteries :). It still keeps accurate, occasionally it doesn’t sync, though I think that can be chalked up to signal propagation. It’s possible the problem is interference EMF, RF etc. Try moving it to another place in the room and/or another room. Don Resor There may be some inter Sent from someone's iPhone On Jan 14, 2024, at 11:49 AM, Bill Gunshannon via cctalk wrote: This is kind computer related but maybe more ham radio related but I figure if anywhere, here is the place to find an answer. I have a SkyScan ATOMIC CLOCK. It is supposed to get its time from WWVB. The antenna icon that is supposed to mean it is receiving WWVB is on. Your probably wondering why I keep saying "supposed to". The clock is always wrong. Slow by about 2 minutes. Is there a known problem with WWVB? bill -- Nigel Johnson, MSc., MIEEE, MCSE VE3ID/G4AJQ/VA3MCU Amateur Radio, the origin of the open-source concept! Skype: TILBURY2591
[cctalk] Re: WWVB
I have two watches that sync to WWVB and they always agree with CHU on HF and a ham rig that syncs to GNSS. So I think it is bang on or there is a government conspiracy to make us late for work 樂 73 de ve3id On January 14, 2024 2:49:19 p.m. EST, Bill Gunshannon via cctalk wrote: This is kind computer related but maybe more ham radio related but I figure if anywhere, here is the place to find an answer. I have a SkyScan ATOMIC CLOCK. It is supposed to get its time from WWVB. The antenna icon that is supposed to mean it is receiving WWVB is on. Your probably wondering why I keep saying "supposed to". The clock is always wrong. Slow by about 2 minutes. Is there a known problem with WWVB? bill -- Nigel Johnson, MSc., MIEEE, MCSE VE3ID/G4AJQ/VA3MCU Amateur Radio, the origin of the open-source concept! Skype: TILBURY2591
[cctalk] Re: WWVB
I also have a decades old SkyScan WWVB LCD wall clock which has survived a few sets of leaking AA batteries :). It still keeps accurate, occasionally it doesn’t sync, though I think that can be chalked up to signal propagation. It’s possible the problem is interference EMF, RF etc. Try moving it to another place in the room and/or another room. Don Resor There may be some inter Sent from someone's iPhone > On Jan 14, 2024, at 11:49 AM, Bill Gunshannon via cctalk > wrote: > > > This is kind computer related but maybe more ham radio related > but I figure if anywhere, here is the place to find an answer. > > I have a SkyScan ATOMIC CLOCK. > It is supposed to get its time from WWVB. > The antenna icon that is supposed to mean it is receiving > WWVB is on. > > Your probably wondering why I keep saying "supposed to". > The clock is always wrong. Slow by about 2 minutes. > > Is there a known problem with WWVB? > > bill >
[cctalk] Re: WWVB
> On 01/14/2024 1:54 PM CST Jonathan Chapman via cctalk > wrote: > > > Bill, > > If it's an older clock it's probably tripping over a timecode transmission > format/modulation change. I forget the exact details but changes were > required to my old 8085-based Spectracom receiver. > > Thanks, > Jonathan > > On Sunday, January 14th, 2024 at 14:49, Bill Gunshannon via cctalk > wrote: > > > > > > > > This is kind computer related but maybe more ham radio related > > but I figure if anywhere, here is the place to find an answer. > > > > I have a SkyScan ATOMIC CLOCK. > > It is supposed to get its time from WWVB. > > The antenna icon that is supposed to mean it is receiving > > WWVB is on. > > > > Your probably wondering why I keep saying "supposed to". > > The clock is always wrong. Slow by about 2 minutes. > > > > Is there a known problem with WWVB? > > > > bill The details are on the NIST website. The format change was 2011 / 2012 ish. I think the details are in this paper. https://www.nist.gov/publications/new-improved-system-wwvb-broadcast I'm looking at my "atomic" clock and it agrees with the computer. Will Grownups never understand anything by themselves and it is tiresome for children to be always and forever explaining things to them, Antoine de Saint-Exupery in The Little Prince
[cctalk] Re: WWVB
I have two watches that sync to WWVB and they always agree with CHU on HF and a ham rig that syncs to GNSS. So I think it is bang on or there is a government conspiracy to make us late for work 樂 On January 14, 2024 2:49:19 p.m. EST, Bill Gunshannon via cctalk wrote: > >This is kind computer related but maybe more ham radio related >but I figure if anywhere, here is the place to find an answer. > >I have a SkyScan ATOMIC CLOCK. >It is supposed to get its time from WWVB. >The antenna icon that is supposed to mean it is receiving >WWVB is on. > >Your probably wondering why I keep saying "supposed to". >The clock is always wrong. Slow by about 2 minutes. > >Is there a known problem with WWVB? > >bill
[cctalk] Re: WWVB
On 1/14/2024 2:54 PM, Jonathan Chapman via cctalk wrote: Bill, If it's an older clock it's probably tripping over a timecode transmission format/modulation change. I forget the exact details but changes were required to my old 8085-based Spectracom receiver. Thanks, that's probably it. I assume if I build one of the W8BH WWVB clocks that problem either has been or can be fixed. OH well, the clock I have was a gift to my father long ago when I first got him into ham radio. It still serves to remind me of how much I miss him. Thanks again. bill KB3YV
[cctalk] Re: WWVB
Bill, If it's an older clock it's probably tripping over a timecode transmission format/modulation change. I forget the exact details but changes were required to my old 8085-based Spectracom receiver. Thanks, Jonathan On Sunday, January 14th, 2024 at 14:49, Bill Gunshannon via cctalk wrote: > > > > This is kind computer related but maybe more ham radio related > but I figure if anywhere, here is the place to find an answer. > > I have a SkyScan ATOMIC CLOCK. > It is supposed to get its time from WWVB. > The antenna icon that is supposed to mean it is receiving > WWVB is on. > > Your probably wondering why I keep saying "supposed to". > The clock is always wrong. Slow by about 2 minutes. > > Is there a known problem with WWVB? > > bill
