Re: What is it with telecommuting?
2008/5/20 C. Hatton Humphrey [EMAIL PROTECTED]: Understandably, most places want people on-site. As a coder, I've never understood this obsession. As a geek, the location of my colleagues and/or computer are irrelevant. -- Tom ~| Adobe® ColdFusion® 8 software 8 is the most important and dramatic release to date Get the Free Trial http://ad.doubleclick.net/clk;192386516;25150098;k Archive: http://www.houseoffusion.com/groups/CF-Jobs-Talk/message.cfm/messageid:3806 Subscription: http://www.houseoffusion.com/groups/CF-Jobs-Talk/subscribe.cfm Unsubscribe: http://www.houseoffusion.com/cf_lists/unsubscribe.cfm?user=11502.10531.11
Re: What is it with telecommuting?
2008/5/21 Adam Haskell [EMAIL PROTECTED]: bad but employers have 100% valid reasons for wanting staff on site. *for some activities* you should have gone on to say. Unless someone is code reviewing 100% of the time, whats the point ? -- Tom ~| Adobe® ColdFusion® 8 software 8 is the most important and dramatic release to date Get the Free Trial http://ad.doubleclick.net/clk;192386516;25150098;k Archive: http://www.houseoffusion.com/groups/CF-Jobs-Talk/message.cfm/messageid:3807 Subscription: http://www.houseoffusion.com/groups/CF-Jobs-Talk/subscribe.cfm Unsubscribe: http://www.houseoffusion.com/cf_lists/unsubscribe.cfm?user=11502.10531.11
Re: What is it with telecommuting?
You are right for some activities, I did not mean to say a company has a good reason to *never* allow telecommuting. That being said in our enterprise our mentoring program calls for an average of 55 hours/year and a tech lead will usually average about 110 hours/year doing code reviews many of these activities are informal and happen throughout a normal day at the office. Its reasons like this that telecommuting is allowed but its not viable to telecommute from a different region. Adam Haskell On Wed, May 21, 2008 at 8:34 AM, Tom Chiverton [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: 2008/5/21 Adam Haskell [EMAIL PROTECTED]: bad but employers have 100% valid reasons for wanting staff on site. *for some activities* you should have gone on to say. Unless someone is code reviewing 100% of the time, whats the point ? -- Tom ~| Adobe® ColdFusion® 8 software 8 is the most important and dramatic release to date Get the Free Trial http://ad.doubleclick.net/clk;192386516;25150098;k Archive: http://www.houseoffusion.com/groups/CF-Jobs-Talk/message.cfm/messageid:3808 Subscription: http://www.houseoffusion.com/groups/CF-Jobs-Talk/subscribe.cfm Unsubscribe: http://www.houseoffusion.com/cf_lists/unsubscribe.cfm?user=11502.10531.11
Re: What is it with telecommuting?
Understandably, most places want people on-site. As a coder, I've never understood this obsession. As a geek, the location of my colleagues and/or computer are irrelevant. But see, there's the problem - we (geeks and coders) are a HUGE minority when it comes to employees and needed work resources. Not every one of us works for a web shop! When I have taught programming, I tell my students that programmers are wired differently; we see the world from a different point of view than most others... even others that embrace and encourage technology. Put another way, unless our manager was a coder at some time, they will never understand how we can operate given the right conditions. Hatton ~| Adobe® ColdFusion® 8 software 8 is the most important and dramatic release to date Get the Free Trial http://ad.doubleclick.net/clk;192386516;25150098;k Archive: http://www.houseoffusion.com/groups/CF-Jobs-Talk/message.cfm/messageid:3809 Subscription: http://www.houseoffusion.com/groups/CF-Jobs-Talk/subscribe.cfm Unsubscribe: http://www.houseoffusion.com/cf_lists/unsubscribe.cfm?user=11502.10531.11
RE: What is it with telecommuting?
Given the current market, that wouldn't be acceptable. You're still asking someone to carry two mortgages for up to 120 days, and Kroger would need to buy the house at fair market value, as determined by an independent appraiser. PS: I'm really not interested in relocating, we've (my wife and I) have been in Raleigh for less than a year and we really kind of like it here :) -- Scott Stewart ColdFusion Developer SSTWebworks 4405 Oakshyre Way Raleigh, NC. 27616 (919) 874-6229 (home) (703) 220-2835 (cell) -Original Message- From: Adam Haskell [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Tuesday, May 20, 2008 8:54 PM To: CF-Jobs-Talk Subject: Re: What is it with telecommuting? When/if Kroger relocates someone they valuate the house and buy it out after 90 or 120 days (something like that, at least they used to do this). Oh and did I mention we are hiring right now if anyone is interested in relocating to a city that is actually flat in housing values instead of declining ;) Seriously if you are interested we are hiring Cincinnati Ohio, anyone? anyone? Adam Haskell On Tue, May 20, 2008 at 3:51 PM, Scott Stewart [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: When proper life cycle development processes are followed, there are deadlines and milestones built in, if your consistently not meeting your deadlines, then the employer can look elsewhere. It's going to come to a point where employers will have to trust their telecommuters, the daily commute is going to become too expensive for even highly paid knowledge workers. Or employers are going to have to subsidize actual commuting, and buy the houses of folks that they want to relocate. -- Scott Stewart ColdFusion Developer SSTWebworks 4405 Oakshyre Way Raleigh, NC. 27616 (919) 874-6229 (home) (703) 220-2835 (cell) -Original Message- From: Jeffry Houser [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Tuesday, May 20, 2008 3:08 PM To: CF-Jobs-Talk Subject: Re: What is it with telecommuting? Communication is easier for many people if it is done in person. I expect this to change in a generation or two, but that is the way it is for many people now. There is also a trust issue. If you're at home and I am paying you hourly, how do I know that you're really doing work for me for all the time I am paying you? How do I even know that you're working at all and are going to meet deadlines? Phillip Vector wrote: On Tue, May 20, 2008 at 11:44 AM, C. Hatton Humphrey [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Understandably, most places want people on-site. The best tele opportunity I was was one where you went on-site for a month on the company dime and then came in for meetings every quarter. That way there was the possibility of meeting and interfacing with people and the remote aspect. Why is this understandable? I mean, What purpose could it serve to require someone to be on site when security of data is not an issue (through access to resources)? ~| Adobe® ColdFusion® 8 software 8 is the most important and dramatic release to date Get the Free Trial http://ad.doubleclick.net/clk;192386516;25150098;k Archive: http://www.houseoffusion.com/groups/CF-Jobs-Talk/message.cfm/messageid:3812 Subscription: http://www.houseoffusion.com/groups/CF-Jobs-Talk/subscribe.cfm Unsubscribe: http://www.houseoffusion.com/cf_lists/unsubscribe.cfm?user=11502.10531.11
RE: What is it with telecommuting?
I should probably clarify something, I'm not adverse to dropping into the office on occasion, on the company's dime, when it's necessary to push progress forward. -- Scott Stewart ColdFusion Developer SSTWebworks 4405 Oakshyre Way Raleigh, NC. 27616 (919) 874-6229 (home) (703) 220-2835 (cell) -Original Message- From: Adam Haskell [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Tuesday, May 20, 2008 8:54 PM To: CF-Jobs-Talk Subject: Re: What is it with telecommuting? When/if Kroger relocates someone they valuate the house and buy it out after 90 or 120 days (something like that, at least they used to do this). Oh and did I mention we are hiring right now if anyone is interested in relocating to a city that is actually flat in housing values instead of declining ;) Seriously if you are interested we are hiring Cincinnati Ohio, anyone? anyone? Adam Haskell On Tue, May 20, 2008 at 3:51 PM, Scott Stewart [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: When proper life cycle development processes are followed, there are deadlines and milestones built in, if your consistently not meeting your deadlines, then the employer can look elsewhere. It's going to come to a point where employers will have to trust their telecommuters, the daily commute is going to become too expensive for even highly paid knowledge workers. Or employers are going to have to subsidize actual commuting, and buy the houses of folks that they want to relocate. -- Scott Stewart ColdFusion Developer SSTWebworks 4405 Oakshyre Way Raleigh, NC. 27616 (919) 874-6229 (home) (703) 220-2835 (cell) -Original Message- From: Jeffry Houser [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Tuesday, May 20, 2008 3:08 PM To: CF-Jobs-Talk Subject: Re: What is it with telecommuting? Communication is easier for many people if it is done in person. I expect this to change in a generation or two, but that is the way it is for many people now. There is also a trust issue. If you're at home and I am paying you hourly, how do I know that you're really doing work for me for all the time I am paying you? How do I even know that you're working at all and are going to meet deadlines? Phillip Vector wrote: On Tue, May 20, 2008 at 11:44 AM, C. Hatton Humphrey [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Understandably, most places want people on-site. The best tele opportunity I was was one where you went on-site for a month on the company dime and then came in for meetings every quarter. That way there was the possibility of meeting and interfacing with people and the remote aspect. Why is this understandable? I mean, What purpose could it serve to require someone to be on site when security of data is not an issue (through access to resources)? ~| Adobe® ColdFusion® 8 software 8 is the most important and dramatic release to date Get the Free Trial http://ad.doubleclick.net/clk;192386516;25150098;k Archive: http://www.houseoffusion.com/groups/CF-Jobs-Talk/message.cfm/messageid:3813 Subscription: http://www.houseoffusion.com/groups/CF-Jobs-Talk/subscribe.cfm Unsubscribe: http://www.houseoffusion.com/cf_lists/unsubscribe.cfm?user=11502.10531.11
Re: What is it with telecommuting?
Scott there are all sorts of loans you can refinance into that will let you go without paying double mortgage for upto XXX days. A lot of folks do not know about these programs but they do exist and most of these loans are not predatory lending most Realtors know about the good ones(my wife is a Realtor). On the aspect of the fair market value that is absolutely correct, and in my case my fair market value is below my mortgage and I would be screwed. I made the mistake of building a house RIGHT before the market went stale and I am stuck. I'm not trying to convince anyone that relocating is easy or an company can make it painless. Its a pain regardless even if a company does pay to relocate that is taxable income which will bite you in the butt at the end of the year :) Adam Haskell On Wed, May 21, 2008 at 9:54 AM, Scott Stewart [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Given the current market, that wouldn't be acceptable. You're still asking someone to carry two mortgages for up to 120 days, and Kroger would need to buy the house at fair market value, as determined by an independent appraiser. PS: I'm really not interested in relocating, we've (my wife and I) have been in Raleigh for less than a year and we really kind of like it here :) -- Scott Stewart ColdFusion Developer SSTWebworks 4405 Oakshyre Way Raleigh, NC. 27616 (919) 874-6229 (home) (703) 220-2835 (cell) -Original Message- From: Adam Haskell [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Tuesday, May 20, 2008 8:54 PM To: CF-Jobs-Talk Subject: Re: What is it with telecommuting? When/if Kroger relocates someone they valuate the house and buy it out after 90 or 120 days (something like that, at least they used to do this). Oh and did I mention we are hiring right now if anyone is interested in relocating to a city that is actually flat in housing values instead of declining ;) Seriously if you are interested we are hiring Cincinnati Ohio, anyone? anyone? Adam Haskell On Tue, May 20, 2008 at 3:51 PM, Scott Stewart [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: When proper life cycle development processes are followed, there are deadlines and milestones built in, if your consistently not meeting your deadlines, then the employer can look elsewhere. It's going to come to a point where employers will have to trust their telecommuters, the daily commute is going to become too expensive for even highly paid knowledge workers. Or employers are going to have to subsidize actual commuting, and buy the houses of folks that they want to relocate. -- Scott Stewart ColdFusion Developer SSTWebworks 4405 Oakshyre Way Raleigh, NC. 27616 (919) 874-6229 (home) (703) 220-2835 (cell) -Original Message- From: Jeffry Houser [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Tuesday, May 20, 2008 3:08 PM To: CF-Jobs-Talk Subject: Re: What is it with telecommuting? Communication is easier for many people if it is done in person. I expect this to change in a generation or two, but that is the way it is for many people now. There is also a trust issue. If you're at home and I am paying you hourly, how do I know that you're really doing work for me for all the time I am paying you? How do I even know that you're working at all and are going to meet deadlines? Phillip Vector wrote: On Tue, May 20, 2008 at 11:44 AM, C. Hatton Humphrey [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Understandably, most places want people on-site. The best tele opportunity I was was one where you went on-site for a month on the company dime and then came in for meetings every quarter. That way there was the possibility of meeting and interfacing with people and the remote aspect. Why is this understandable? I mean, What purpose could it serve to require someone to be on site when security of data is not an issue (through access to resources)? ~| Adobe® ColdFusion® 8 software 8 is the most important and dramatic release to date Get the Free Trial http://ad.doubleclick.net/clk;192386516;25150098;k Archive: http://www.houseoffusion.com/groups/CF-Jobs-Talk/message.cfm/messageid:3815 Subscription: http://www.houseoffusion.com/groups/CF-Jobs-Talk/subscribe.cfm Unsubscribe: http://www.houseoffusion.com/cf_lists/unsubscribe.cfm?user=11502.10531.11
RE: What is it with telecommuting?
In the broader scope, asking anyone to relocate, is really a stretch right now, if they're a homeowner. A company needs to step up and make it as painless as possible. -- Scott Stewart ColdFusion Developer SSTWebworks 4405 Oakshyre Way Raleigh, NC. 27616 (919) 874-6229 (home) (703) 220-2835 (cell) -Original Message- From: Adam Haskell [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Wednesday, May 21, 2008 10:57 AM To: CF-Jobs-Talk Subject: Re: What is it with telecommuting? Scott there are all sorts of loans you can refinance into that will let you go without paying double mortgage for upto XXX days. A lot of folks do not know about these programs but they do exist and most of these loans are not predatory lending most Realtors know about the good ones(my wife is a Realtor). On the aspect of the fair market value that is absolutely correct, and in my case my fair market value is below my mortgage and I would be screwed. I made the mistake of building a house RIGHT before the market went stale and I am stuck. I'm not trying to convince anyone that relocating is easy or an company can make it painless. Its a pain regardless even if a company does pay to relocate that is taxable income which will bite you in the butt at the end of the year :) Adam Haskell On Wed, May 21, 2008 at 9:54 AM, Scott Stewart [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Given the current market, that wouldn't be acceptable. You're still asking someone to carry two mortgages for up to 120 days, and Kroger would need to buy the house at fair market value, as determined by an independent appraiser. PS: I'm really not interested in relocating, we've (my wife and I) have been in Raleigh for less than a year and we really kind of like it here :) -- Scott Stewart ColdFusion Developer SSTWebworks 4405 Oakshyre Way Raleigh, NC. 27616 (919) 874-6229 (home) (703) 220-2835 (cell) -Original Message- From: Adam Haskell [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Tuesday, May 20, 2008 8:54 PM To: CF-Jobs-Talk Subject: Re: What is it with telecommuting? When/if Kroger relocates someone they valuate the house and buy it out after 90 or 120 days (something like that, at least they used to do this). Oh and did I mention we are hiring right now if anyone is interested in relocating to a city that is actually flat in housing values instead of declining ;) Seriously if you are interested we are hiring Cincinnati Ohio, anyone? anyone? Adam Haskell On Tue, May 20, 2008 at 3:51 PM, Scott Stewart [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: When proper life cycle development processes are followed, there are deadlines and milestones built in, if your consistently not meeting your deadlines, then the employer can look elsewhere. It's going to come to a point where employers will have to trust their telecommuters, the daily commute is going to become too expensive for even highly paid knowledge workers. Or employers are going to have to subsidize actual commuting, and buy the houses of folks that they want to relocate. -- Scott Stewart ColdFusion Developer SSTWebworks 4405 Oakshyre Way Raleigh, NC. 27616 (919) 874-6229 (home) (703) 220-2835 (cell) -Original Message- From: Jeffry Houser [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Tuesday, May 20, 2008 3:08 PM To: CF-Jobs-Talk Subject: Re: What is it with telecommuting? Communication is easier for many people if it is done in person. I expect this to change in a generation or two, but that is the way it is for many people now. There is also a trust issue. If you're at home and I am paying you hourly, how do I know that you're really doing work for me for all the time I am paying you? How do I even know that you're working at all and are going to meet deadlines? Phillip Vector wrote: On Tue, May 20, 2008 at 11:44 AM, C. Hatton Humphrey [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Understandably, most places want people on-site. The best tele opportunity I was was one where you went on-site for a month on the company dime and then came in for meetings every quarter. That way there was the possibility of meeting and interfacing with people and the remote aspect. Why is this understandable? I mean, What purpose could it serve to require someone to be on site when security of data is not an issue (through access to resources)? ~| Adobe® ColdFusion® 8 software 8 is the most important and dramatic release to date Get the Free Trial http://ad.doubleclick.net/clk;192386516;25150098;k Archive: http://www.houseoffusion.com/groups/CF-Jobs-Talk/message.cfm/messageid:3816 Subscription: http://www.houseoffusion.com/groups/CF-Jobs-Talk/subscribe.cfm Unsubscribe: http://www.houseoffusion.com/cf_lists/unsubscribe.cfm?user=11502.10531.11
RE: What is it with telecommuting?
can this thread die now please? Mobile email powered by Nokia Intellisync Original Message From: Scott Stewart [EMAIL PROTECTED] Date: 5/21/08 9:54 am To: CFJobsTalk cf-jobs-talk@houseoffusion.com Subj: RE: What is it with telecommuting? Given the current market, that wouldn't be acceptable. You're still asking someone to carry two mortgages for up to 120 days, and Kroger would need to buy the house at fair market value, as determined by an independent appraiser. PS: I'm really not interested in relocating, we've (my wife and I) have been in Raleigh for less than a year and we really kind of like it here :) -- Scott Stewart ColdFusion Developer SSTWebworks 4405 Oakshyre Way Raleigh, NC. 27616 (919) 874-6229 (home) (703) 220-2835 (cell) -Original Message- From: Adam Haskell [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Tuesday, May 20, 2008 8:54 PM To: CF-Jobs-Talk Subject: Re: What is it with telecommuting? When/if Kroger relocates someone they valuate the house and buy it out after 90 or 120 days (something like that, at least they used to do this). Oh and did I mention we are hiring right now if anyone is interested in relocating to a city that is actually flat in housing values instead of declining ;) Seriously if you are interested we are hiring Cincinnati Ohio, anyone? anyone? Adam Haskell On Tue, May 20, 2008 at 3:51 PM, Scott Stewart wrote: When proper life cycle development processes are followed, there are deadlines and milestones built in, if your consistently not meeting your deadlines, then the employer can look elsewhere. It's going to come to a point where employers will have to trust their telecommuters, the daily commute is going to become too expensive for even highly paid knowledge workers. Or employers are going to have to subsidize actual commuting, and buy the houses of folks that they want to relocate. -- Scott Stewart ColdFusion Developer SSTWebworks 4405 Oakshyre Way Raleigh, NC. 27616 (919) 874-6229 (home) (703) 220-2835 (cell) -Original Message- From: Jeffry Houser [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Tuesday, May 20, 2008 3:08 PM To: CF-Jobs-Talk Subject: Re: What is it with telecommuting? Communication is easier for many people if it is done in person. I expect this to change in a generation or two, but that is the way it is for many people now. There is also a trust issue. If you're at home and I am paying you hourly, how do I know that you're really doing work for me for all the time I am paying you? How do I even know that you're working at all and are going to meet deadlines? Phillip Vector wrote: On Tue, May 20, 2008 at 11:44 AM, C. Hatton Humphrey wrote: Understandably, most places want people on-site. The best tele opportunity I was was one where you went on-site for a month on the company dime and then came in for meetings every quarter. That way there was the possibility of meeting and interfacing with people and the remote aspect. Why is this understandable? I mean, What purpose could it serve to require someone to be on site when security of data is not an issue (through access to resources)? ~| Adobe® ColdFusion® 8 software 8 is the most important and dramatic release to date Get the Free Trial http://ad.doubleclick.net/clk;192386516;25150098;k Archive: http://www.houseoffusion.com/groups/CF-Jobs-Talk/message.cfm/messageid:3817 Subscription: http://www.houseoffusion.com/groups/CF-Jobs-Talk/subscribe.cfm Unsubscribe: http://www.houseoffusion.com/cf_lists/unsubscribe.cfm?user=11502.10531.11
RE: What is it with telecommuting?
So have I, if for no other reason than for me to vent and get some understanding of the situation. -- Scott Stewart ColdFusion Developer SSTWebworks 4405 Oakshyre Way Raleigh, NC. 27616 (919) 874-6229 (home) (703) 220-2835 (cell) -Original Message- From: Jeffry Houser [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Wednesday, May 21, 2008 11:55 AM To: CF-Jobs-Talk Subject: Re: What is it with telecommuting? I've found this to be an interesting thread myself; and is a talk list. I haven't seen Michael's post more than once yet. Scott Stewart wrote: Why? PS: didja have to post this twice? -- Jeffry Houser Flex, ColdFusion, AIR AIM: Reboog711 | Phone: 1-203-379-0773 -- Adobe Community Expert http://www.adobe.com/communities/experts/members/JeffryHouser.html My Company: http://www.dot-com-it.com My Podcast: http://www.theflexshow.com My Blog: http://www.jeffryhouser.com ~| Adobe® ColdFusion® 8 software 8 is the most important and dramatic release to date Get the Free Trial http://ad.doubleclick.net/clk;192386516;25150098;k Archive: http://www.houseoffusion.com/groups/CF-Jobs-Talk/message.cfm/messageid:3821 Subscription: http://www.houseoffusion.com/groups/CF-Jobs-Talk/subscribe.cfm Unsubscribe: http://www.houseoffusion.com/cf_lists/unsubscribe.cfm?user=11502.10531.11
Re: What is it with telecommuting?
I think the debate on the benefits and disadvantages of telecommuting is fascinating. I think it's important, whether you work onsite or from your home office remotely, to keep up clear and effective communication. At one point, when I had just had my first child, I tried to work remotely for a company from my house. It didn't work because my boss at the time (they had transferred me to a new department) was so busy that she couldn't communicate effectively with me. I would call her and she would never return my calls. My emails went unanswered. It was very frustrating. Eventually, I quit - but I imagine that if I had a more responsive boss, I might have stayed on. And with a different company, it might have worked. So I guess it very much depends on who the players are, and how communicative they are - how effectively do they work when working remotely? Some people just need to be there in the office. And some bosses seem to need that face time. Judith ~| Adobe® ColdFusion® 8 software 8 is the most important and dramatic release to date Get the Free Trial http://ad.doubleclick.net/clk;192386516;25150098;k Archive: http://www.houseoffusion.com/groups/CF-Jobs-Talk/message.cfm/messageid:3822 Subscription: http://www.houseoffusion.com/groups/CF-Jobs-Talk/subscribe.cfm Unsubscribe: http://www.houseoffusion.com/cf_lists/unsubscribe.cfm?user=11502.10531.11
Re: What is it with telecommuting?
On Wed, May 21, 2008 at 11:03 AM, Judith Dinowitz [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: I think the debate on the benefits and disadvantages of telecommuting is fascinating. I think it's important, whether you work onsite or from your home office remotely, to keep up clear and effective communication. It is a good discussion. I've been telecommuting for about 1.5 years now. My home is in Kentucky, my employer is in Los Angeles area. The 5 other team members and I use IM, email and phone to keep in touch. Our development is structured with assigned tasks and continual status updates. I know I miss out on some discussions and decisions, but that is okay with me. Last year I visited the office about once a quarter, but this year I have not yet been out. I would guess that from the employer point-of-view the ideal situation is to have all employees in the office. But when they start having problems finding and keeping employees with the desired qualifications, they should consider remote employees. -- Matt Williams It's the question that drives us. ~| Adobe® ColdFusion® 8 software 8 is the most important and dramatic release to date Get the Free Trial http://ad.doubleclick.net/clk;192386516;25150098;k Archive: http://www.houseoffusion.com/groups/CF-Jobs-Talk/message.cfm/messageid:3823 Subscription: http://www.houseoffusion.com/groups/CF-Jobs-Talk/subscribe.cfm Unsubscribe: http://www.houseoffusion.com/cf_lists/unsubscribe.cfm?user=11502.10531.11
Re: What is it with telecommuting?
Why? This is a legitimate discussion topic for CF-Jobs-Talk. If you don't like the threat, just hit the delete button. On Wed, May 21, 2008 at 11:44 AM, Michael Perlstein [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: can this thread die now please? ~| Adobe® ColdFusion® 8 software 8 is the most important and dramatic release to date Get the Free Trial http://ad.doubleclick.net/clk;192386516;25150098;k Archive: http://www.houseoffusion.com/groups/CF-Jobs-Talk/message.cfm/messageid:3824 Subscription: http://www.houseoffusion.com/groups/CF-Jobs-Talk/subscribe.cfm Unsubscribe: http://www.houseoffusion.com/cf_lists/unsubscribe.cfm?user=11502.10531.11
RE: What is it with telecommuting?
Tack on a fuel surcharge fee to your contracting fee. Airlines and UPS do it... -Original Message- From: Scott Stewart [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Tuesday, May 20, 2008 11:39 AM To: CF-Jobs-Talk Subject: What is it with telecommuting? I get contacted by recruiters almost daily.. Why is it that in a depressed housing market, many employers won't even consider telecommuters? I do understand the reasoning behind TSI and above clearance contracts, but non secure and private employers really don't have a valid reason not to. The chances of people, especially homeowners, considering relocation right now is almost non existant. Just my $.02. discuss. -- Scott Stewart ColdFusion Developer SSTWebworks 4405 Oakshyre Way Raleigh, NC. 27616 (919) 874-6229 (home) (703) 220-2835 (cell) ~| Adobe® ColdFusion® 8 software 8 is the most important and dramatic release to date Get the Free Trial http://ad.doubleclick.net/clk;192386516;25150098;k Archive: http://www.houseoffusion.com/groups/CF-Jobs-Talk/message.cfm/messageid:3830 Subscription: http://www.houseoffusion.com/groups/CF-Jobs-Talk/subscribe.cfm Unsubscribe: http://www.houseoffusion.com/cf_lists/unsubscribe.cfm?user=11502.10531.11
Re: What is it with telecommuting?
Preach on brotha! (working from home today and loving it) On Tue, May 20, 2008 at 1:39 PM, Scott Stewart [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: I get contacted by recruiters almost daily.. Why is it that in a depressed housing market, many employers won't even consider telecommuters? I do understand the reasoning behind TSI and above clearance contracts, but non secure and private employers really don't have a valid reason not to. The chances of people, especially homeowners, considering relocation right now is almost non existant. Just my $.02. discuss. -- Scott Stewart ColdFusion Developer SSTWebworks 4405 Oakshyre Way Raleigh, NC. 27616 (919) 874-6229 (home) (703) 220-2835 (cell) ~| Adobe® ColdFusion® 8 software 8 is the most important and dramatic release to date Get the Free Trial http://ad.doubleclick.net/clk;192386516;25150098;k Archive: http://www.houseoffusion.com/groups/CF-Jobs-Talk/message.cfm/messageid:3781 Subscription: http://www.houseoffusion.com/groups/CF-Jobs-Talk/subscribe.cfm Unsubscribe: http://www.houseoffusion.com/cf_lists/unsubscribe.cfm?user=11502.10531.11
Re: What is it with telecommuting?
Well, I have to agree on this. Towards the end of last year, while recovering from getting run over by a bus (Yes, literally), I found a good company that wanted to fly me out to Vegas and work from there. It was in credit card processing (Shift 4), so I could understand the need for security. But after getting a year lease and getting to the point where I was going to get ahead of the expense of moving out there, they let me go. So now, even when faced with an amazing chance to do some work that I love, I will pass on it if they refuse to do telecommuting. I simply can't get myself into that kind of hole again (I'm still paying off leases and such from when I was there). I think part of the reason why they won't is that managers who grew up having to go to the office to work don't understand that people can be productive outside the office. I think there is also the idea that they need to keep track of you and what you are doing constantly which is unfortunate). Sadly, there are enough people around who do this kind of work that don't mind either moving or live close by where the company is. So I wouldn't expect it to change (though it would be in their best interest). On Tue, May 20, 2008 at 11:39 AM, Scott Stewart [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: I get contacted by recruiters almost daily.. Why is it that in a depressed housing market, many employers won't even consider telecommuters? I do understand the reasoning behind TSI and above clearance contracts, but non secure and private employers really don't have a valid reason not to. The chances of people, especially homeowners, considering relocation right now is almost non existant. Just my $.02. discuss. -- Scott Stewart ColdFusion Developer SSTWebworks 4405 Oakshyre Way Raleigh, NC. 27616 (919) 874-6229 (home) (703) 220-2835 (cell) ~| Adobe® ColdFusion® 8 software 8 is the most important and dramatic release to date Get the Free Trial http://ad.doubleclick.net/clk;192386516;25150098;k Archive: http://www.houseoffusion.com/groups/CF-Jobs-Talk/message.cfm/messageid:3782 Subscription: http://www.houseoffusion.com/groups/CF-Jobs-Talk/subscribe.cfm Unsubscribe: http://www.houseoffusion.com/cf_lists/unsubscribe.cfm?user=11502.10531.11
Re: What is it with telecommuting?
On Tue, May 20, 2008 at 11:44 AM, C. Hatton Humphrey [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Understandably, most places want people on-site. The best tele opportunity I was was one where you went on-site for a month on the company dime and then came in for meetings every quarter. That way there was the possibility of meeting and interfacing with people and the remote aspect. Why is this understandable? I mean, What purpose could it serve to require someone to be on site when security of data is not an issue (through access to resources)? ~| Adobe® ColdFusion® 8 software 8 is the most important and dramatic release to date Get the Free Trial http://ad.doubleclick.net/clk;192386516;25150098;k Archive: http://www.houseoffusion.com/groups/CF-Jobs-Talk/message.cfm/messageid:3783 Subscription: http://www.houseoffusion.com/groups/CF-Jobs-Talk/subscribe.cfm Unsubscribe: http://www.houseoffusion.com/cf_lists/unsubscribe.cfm?user=11502.10531.11
Re: What is it with telecommuting?
Seth Godin just tackled this subject in his blog: http://sethgodin.typepad.com/seths_blog/2008/05/the-new-standar.html On Tue, May 20, 2008 at 1:47 PM, Phillip Vector [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: On Tue, May 20, 2008 at 11:44 AM, C. Hatton Humphrey [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Understandably, most places want people on-site. The best tele opportunity I was was one where you went on-site for a month on the company dime and then came in for meetings every quarter. That way there was the possibility of meeting and interfacing with people and the remote aspect. Why is this understandable? I mean, What purpose could it serve to require someone to be on site when security of data is not an issue (through access to resources)? ~| Adobe® ColdFusion® 8 software 8 is the most important and dramatic release to date Get the Free Trial http://ad.doubleclick.net/clk;192386516;25150098;k Archive: http://www.houseoffusion.com/groups/CF-Jobs-Talk/message.cfm/messageid:3784 Subscription: http://www.houseoffusion.com/groups/CF-Jobs-Talk/subscribe.cfm Unsubscribe: http://www.houseoffusion.com/cf_lists/unsubscribe.cfm?user=11502.10531.11
Re: What is it with telecommuting?
It takes a special type of person to be able to manage people they can not see in person. Some people can manage that just fine and others can not. Telecommuting is one of those things that is slowly picking up but I foresee it taking a long time before it is more mainstream. My biggest hangup with it is all the people that I know who telecommute full time or close to full time, are doing the same type of work today that they were doing 4+ years ago. They seem to always get overlooked for job promotions, although maybe it is just the people themselves and being content with where they are. I have a book at home that goes over a few studies over telecommuting but forgotten the name of it, had to read it for a class 1-2 years ago. On Tue, May 20, 2008 at 1:39 PM, Scott Stewart [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: I get contacted by recruiters almost daily.. Why is it that in a depressed housing market, many employers won't even consider telecommuters? I do understand the reasoning behind TSI and above clearance contracts, but non secure and private employers really don't have a valid reason not to. The chances of people, especially homeowners, considering relocation right now is almost non existant. Just my $.02. discuss. -- Scott Stewart ColdFusion Developer SSTWebworks 4405 Oakshyre Way Raleigh, NC. 27616 (919) 874-6229 (home) (703) 220-2835 (cell) ~| Adobe® ColdFusion® 8 software 8 is the most important and dramatic release to date Get the Free Trial http://ad.doubleclick.net/clk;192386516;25150098;k Archive: http://www.houseoffusion.com/groups/CF-Jobs-Talk/message.cfm/messageid:3785 Subscription: http://www.houseoffusion.com/groups/CF-Jobs-Talk/subscribe.cfm Unsubscribe: http://www.houseoffusion.com/cf_lists/unsubscribe.cfm?user=11502.10531.11
RE: What is it with telecommuting?
I've been telecommuting full-time for about a year now. Aside from the social interaction, I've not seen anything that I can't do that someone in house can. And back to the housing issue, the real estate crisis is finally hitting Raleigh... and my chances of moving are nil... -- Scott Stewart ColdFusion Developer SSTWebworks 4405 Oakshyre Way Raleigh, NC. 27616 (919) 874-6229 (home) (703) 220-2835 (cell) -Original Message- From: Steve Runyon [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Tuesday, May 20, 2008 2:44 PM To: CF-Jobs-Talk Subject: Re: What is it with telecommuting? Not to mention the price of gas! Throw in the environmental and traffic-load benefits and we should all be telecommuting a couple of days a week. IMO this is something that will change within the next couple of years - telecommuting 2-3 days per week will just be one of those things that most knowledge workers do. Of course there are some jobs and environments where that's simply not an option, but my guess is such places are relatively few. On Tue, May 20, 2008 at 2:39 PM, Scott Stewart [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: I get contacted by recruiters almost daily.. Why is it that in a depressed housing market, many employers won't even consider telecommuters? I do understand the reasoning behind TSI and above clearance contracts, but non secure and private employers really don't have a valid reason not to. The chances of people, especially homeowners, considering relocation right now is almost non existant. Just my $.02. discuss. -- Scott Stewart ColdFusion Developer SSTWebworks 4405 Oakshyre Way Raleigh, NC. 27616 (919) 874-6229 (home) (703) 220-2835 (cell) ~| Adobe® ColdFusion® 8 software 8 is the most important and dramatic release to date Get the Free Trial http://ad.doubleclick.net/clk;192386516;25150098;k Archive: http://www.houseoffusion.com/groups/CF-Jobs-Talk/message.cfm/messageid:3786 Subscription: http://www.houseoffusion.com/groups/CF-Jobs-Talk/subscribe.cfm Unsubscribe: http://www.houseoffusion.com/cf_lists/unsubscribe.cfm?user=11502.10531.11
Re: What is it with telecommuting?
I get contacted by recruiters almost daily.. Why is it that in a depressed housing market, many employers won't even consider telecommuters? I do understand the reasoning behind TSI and above clearance contracts, but non secure and private employers really don't have a valid reason not to. The chances of people, especially homeowners, considering relocation right now is almost non existant. Just my $.02. discuss. Forget the cost of housing, what about the cost of GAS! I'm back to driving ~20 miles each way. When I accepted the job the numbers made sense for my budget. Now I've had to cut back on necessities, bills and RAPIDLY growing fuel costs. Mass transit is NOT an option for those of us who live in areas that don't have them. Understandably, most places want people on-site. The best tele opportunity I was was one where you went on-site for a month on the company dime and then came in for meetings every quarter. That way there was the possibility of meeting and interfacing with people and the remote aspect. Hatton ~| Adobe® ColdFusion® 8 software 8 is the most important and dramatic release to date Get the Free Trial http://ad.doubleclick.net/clk;192386516;25150098;k Archive: http://www.houseoffusion.com/groups/CF-Jobs-Talk/message.cfm/messageid:3780 Subscription: http://www.houseoffusion.com/groups/CF-Jobs-Talk/subscribe.cfm Unsubscribe: http://www.houseoffusion.com/cf_lists/unsubscribe.cfm?user=11502.10531.11
Re: What is it with telecommuting?
Not to mention the price of gas! Throw in the environmental and traffic-load benefits and we should all be telecommuting a couple of days a week. IMO this is something that will change within the next couple of years - telecommuting 2-3 days per week will just be one of those things that most knowledge workers do. Of course there are some jobs and environments where that's simply not an option, but my guess is such places are relatively few. On Tue, May 20, 2008 at 2:39 PM, Scott Stewart [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: I get contacted by recruiters almost daily.. Why is it that in a depressed housing market, many employers won't even consider telecommuters? I do understand the reasoning behind TSI and above clearance contracts, but non secure and private employers really don't have a valid reason not to. The chances of people, especially homeowners, considering relocation right now is almost non existant. Just my $.02. discuss. -- Scott Stewart ColdFusion Developer SSTWebworks 4405 Oakshyre Way Raleigh, NC. 27616 (919) 874-6229 (home) (703) 220-2835 (cell) ~| Adobe® ColdFusion® 8 software 8 is the most important and dramatic release to date Get the Free Trial http://ad.doubleclick.net/clk;192386516;25150098;k Archive: http://www.houseoffusion.com/groups/CF-Jobs-Talk/message.cfm/messageid:3779 Subscription: http://www.houseoffusion.com/groups/CF-Jobs-Talk/subscribe.cfm Unsubscribe: http://www.houseoffusion.com/cf_lists/unsubscribe.cfm?user=11502.10531.11
What is it with telecommuting?
I get contacted by recruiters almost daily.. Why is it that in a depressed housing market, many employers won't even consider telecommuters? I do understand the reasoning behind TSI and above clearance contracts, but non secure and private employers really don't have a valid reason not to. The chances of people, especially homeowners, considering relocation right now is almost non existant. Just my $.02. discuss. -- Scott Stewart ColdFusion Developer SSTWebworks 4405 Oakshyre Way Raleigh, NC. 27616 (919) 874-6229 (home) (703) 220-2835 (cell) ~| Adobe® ColdFusion® 8 software 8 is the most important and dramatic release to date Get the Free Trial http://ad.doubleclick.net/clk;192386516;25150098;k Archive: http://www.houseoffusion.com/groups/CF-Jobs-Talk/message.cfm/messageid:3778 Subscription: http://www.houseoffusion.com/groups/CF-Jobs-Talk/subscribe.cfm Unsubscribe: http://www.houseoffusion.com/cf_lists/unsubscribe.cfm?user=11502.10531.11
Re: What is it with telecommuting?
Agreed. I live just outside of Tampa, where the housing crisis is really bad, and I wouldn't consider moving. However, I work for three very large clients, one is a large utility, one is a municipality and on is a large financial services firm, and they are all allowing me to telecommute most of the time, even though each one is in Tampa. I usually have meetings on site two days a week. I hope to get down to only two clients soon, and then I'll only schedule on-sites one day a week. There simply are not enough good programmers out there; I have been able to write my own ticket as far as telecommuting goes. If a company won't let me telecommute, then I won't work for them. I have thought for months that this is an issue that I wish one of the candidates would get behind. If every knowledge worker was permitted to telecommute 2 days a week, can you imagine how much gas this country would save? Make it a patriotic thing; Company X is helping us reduce our dependence on foreign oil by allowing Y% if their workforce to work from home Or give a small tax break based on percentage of telecommuting employees. I think some companies need a bit of a shove to make the leap, and making it in their self-interest might help. Kathryn - Original Message From: Scott Stewart [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: CF-Jobs-Talk cf-jobs-talk@houseoffusion.com Sent: Tuesday, May 20, 2008 2:39:27 PM Subject: What is it with telecommuting? I get contacted by recruiters almost daily.. Why is it that in a depressed housing market, many employers won't even consider telecommuters? I do understand the reasoning behind TSI and above clearance contracts, but non secure and private employers really don't have a valid reason not to. The chances of people, especially homeowners, considering relocation right now is almost non existant. Just my $.02. discuss. -- Scott Stewart ColdFusion Developer SSTWebworks 4405 Oakshyre Way Raleigh, NC. 27616 (919) 874-6229 (home) (703) 220-2835 (cell) ~| Adobe® ColdFusion® 8 software 8 is the most important and dramatic release to date Get the Free Trial http://ad.doubleclick.net/clk;192386516;25150098;k Archive: http://www.houseoffusion.com/groups/CF-Jobs-Talk/message.cfm/messageid:3788 Subscription: http://www.houseoffusion.com/groups/CF-Jobs-Talk/subscribe.cfm Unsubscribe: http://www.houseoffusion.com/cf_lists/unsubscribe.cfm?user=11502.10531.11
Re: What is it with telecommuting?
Well, first, I don't think that telecommuting will ever be commonplace. The managers managing managers style of hiearchy will limit that. Also, if you are a programmer, you have deadlines to meet and if you don't meet them then you shouldn't be able to telecommute. I have worked remotely for about 9 years now, and I know that when I have work to do I work very long hours and finish it. If you meet the deadlines and the product is good, then there is no questioning of whether you are working or not. Now I can see why some managers wonder, and usually it is because they or someone they know have been disappointed by an unproductive telecommuter. I think everyone should try telecommuting at least once in their career. On Tue, May 20, 2008 at 3:08 PM, Jeffry Houser [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Communication is easier for many people if it is done in person. I expect this to change in a generation or two, but that is the way it is for many people now. There is also a trust issue. If you're at home and I am paying you hourly, how do I know that you're really doing work for me for all the time I am paying you? How do I even know that you're working at all and are going to meet deadlines? Phillip Vector wrote: On Tue, May 20, 2008 at 11:44 AM, C. Hatton Humphrey [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Understandably, most places want people on-site. The best tele opportunity I was was one where you went on-site for a month on the company dime and then came in for meetings every quarter. That way there was the possibility of meeting and interfacing with people and the remote aspect. Why is this understandable? I mean, What purpose could it serve to require someone to be on site when security of data is not an issue (through access to resources)? ~| Adobe® ColdFusion® 8 software 8 is the most important and dramatic release to date Get the Free Trial http://ad.doubleclick.net/clk;192386516;25150098;k Archive: http://www.houseoffusion.com/groups/CF-Jobs-Talk/message.cfm/messageid:3790 Subscription: http://www.houseoffusion.com/groups/CF-Jobs-Talk/subscribe.cfm Unsubscribe: http://www.houseoffusion.com/cf_lists/unsubscribe.cfm?user=11502.10531.11
Re: What is it with telecommuting?
On Tue, May 20, 2008 at 12:08 PM, Jeffry Houser [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Communication is easier for many people if it is done in person. I expect this to change in a generation or two, but that is the way it is for many people now. True.. Though IM is a way to communicate with your workers. That and Email. I work in an office and the only real contact I have with people is via email. So it's doable. There is also a trust issue. If you're at home and I am paying you hourly, how do I know that you're really doing work for me for all the time I am paying you? How do I even know that you're working at all and are going to meet deadlines? By that logic, why hire someone and give them access to your files and database? After all, how do you know that I wouldn't run off with them once I got them? There has to be a level of trust. Contracts are signed, checkins can be required, etc. Even McDonalds trusts that the employees won't keep calling out. People do and you fire them. That's how it works. ~| Adobe® ColdFusion® 8 software 8 is the most important and dramatic release to date Get the Free Trial http://ad.doubleclick.net/clk;192386516;25150098;k Archive: http://www.houseoffusion.com/groups/CF-Jobs-Talk/message.cfm/messageid:3791 Subscription: http://www.houseoffusion.com/groups/CF-Jobs-Talk/subscribe.cfm Unsubscribe: http://www.houseoffusion.com/cf_lists/unsubscribe.cfm?user=11502.10531.11
RE: What is it with telecommuting?
When proper life cycle development processes are followed, there are deadlines and milestones built in, if your consistently not meeting your deadlines, then the employer can look elsewhere. It's going to come to a point where employers will have to trust their telecommuters, the daily commute is going to become too expensive for even highly paid knowledge workers. Or employers are going to have to subsidize actual commuting, and buy the houses of folks that they want to relocate. -- Scott Stewart ColdFusion Developer SSTWebworks 4405 Oakshyre Way Raleigh, NC. 27616 (919) 874-6229 (home) (703) 220-2835 (cell) -Original Message- From: Jeffry Houser [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Tuesday, May 20, 2008 3:08 PM To: CF-Jobs-Talk Subject: Re: What is it with telecommuting? Communication is easier for many people if it is done in person. I expect this to change in a generation or two, but that is the way it is for many people now. There is also a trust issue. If you're at home and I am paying you hourly, how do I know that you're really doing work for me for all the time I am paying you? How do I even know that you're working at all and are going to meet deadlines? Phillip Vector wrote: On Tue, May 20, 2008 at 11:44 AM, C. Hatton Humphrey [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Understandably, most places want people on-site. The best tele opportunity I was was one where you went on-site for a month on the company dime and then came in for meetings every quarter. That way there was the possibility of meeting and interfacing with people and the remote aspect. Why is this understandable? I mean, What purpose could it serve to require someone to be on site when security of data is not an issue (through access to resources)? ~| Adobe® ColdFusion® 8 software 8 is the most important and dramatic release to date Get the Free Trial http://ad.doubleclick.net/clk;192386516;25150098;k Archive: http://www.houseoffusion.com/groups/CF-Jobs-Talk/message.cfm/messageid:3792 Subscription: http://www.houseoffusion.com/groups/CF-Jobs-Talk/subscribe.cfm Unsubscribe: http://www.houseoffusion.com/cf_lists/unsubscribe.cfm?user=11502.10531.11
Re: What is it with telecommuting?
True, although when they get that trust lets just hope the trust also does not direct them to just sending the work to a telecommuter who will work for pennies on the dollar overseas. :) On Tue, May 20, 2008 at 2:51 PM, Scott Stewart [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: When proper life cycle development processes are followed, there are deadlines and milestones built in, if your consistently not meeting your deadlines, then the employer can look elsewhere. It's going to come to a point where employers will have to trust their telecommuters, the daily commute is going to become too expensive for even highly paid knowledge workers. Or employers are going to have to subsidize actual commuting, and buy the houses of folks that they want to relocate. -- Scott Stewart ColdFusion Developer SSTWebworks 4405 Oakshyre Way Raleigh, NC. 27616 (919) 874-6229 (home) (703) 220-2835 (cell) -Original Message- From: Jeffry Houser [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Tuesday, May 20, 2008 3:08 PM To: CF-Jobs-Talk Subject: Re: What is it with telecommuting? Communication is easier for many people if it is done in person. I expect this to change in a generation or two, but that is the way it is for many people now. There is also a trust issue. If you're at home and I am paying you hourly, how do I know that you're really doing work for me for all the time I am paying you? How do I even know that you're working at all and are going to meet deadlines? Phillip Vector wrote: On Tue, May 20, 2008 at 11:44 AM, C. Hatton Humphrey [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Understandably, most places want people on-site. The best tele opportunity I was was one where you went on-site for a month on the company dime and then came in for meetings every quarter. That way there was the possibility of meeting and interfacing with people and the remote aspect. Why is this understandable? I mean, What purpose could it serve to require someone to be on site when security of data is not an issue (through access to resources)? ~| Adobe® ColdFusion® 8 software 8 is the most important and dramatic release to date Get the Free Trial http://ad.doubleclick.net/clk;192386516;25150098;k Archive: http://www.houseoffusion.com/groups/CF-Jobs-Talk/message.cfm/messageid:3793 Subscription: http://www.houseoffusion.com/groups/CF-Jobs-Talk/subscribe.cfm Unsubscribe: http://www.houseoffusion.com/cf_lists/unsubscribe.cfm?user=11502.10531.11
Re: What is it with telecommuting?
I'm seriously considering getting back into the job market again, and have been talking to a few recruiters and potential employers. Since over the last few years I've been quite fortunate not having to commute, so I've decided at least a 3 day telecommute is a requirement. There is no way that I want to consider a 2 or 3 hour commute in this area (DC). So far however those employers I've talked with have been very receptive. So who knows, the attitude may be changing. regards, larry On Tue, May 20, 2008 at 3:51 PM, Scott Stewart [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: When proper life cycle development processes are followed, there are deadlines and milestones built in, if your consistently not meeting your deadlines, then the employer can look elsewhere. It's going to come to a point where employers will have to trust their telecommuters, the daily commute is going to become too expensive for even highly paid knowledge workers. Or employers are going to have to subsidize actual commuting, and buy the houses of folks that they want to relocate. -- Scott Stewart ColdFusion Developer SSTWebworks 4405 Oakshyre Way Raleigh, NC. 27616 (919) 874-6229 (home) (703) 220-2835 (cell) -Original Message- From: Jeffry Houser [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Tuesday, May 20, 2008 3:08 PM To: CF-Jobs-Talk Subject: Re: What is it with telecommuting? Communication is easier for many people if it is done in person. I expect this to change in a generation or two, but that is the way it is for many people now. There is also a trust issue. If you're at home and I am paying you hourly, how do I know that you're really doing work for me for all the time I am paying you? How do I even know that you're working at all and are going to meet deadlines? Phillip Vector wrote: On Tue, May 20, 2008 at 11:44 AM, C. Hatton Humphrey [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Understandably, most places want people on-site. The best tele opportunity I was was one where you went on-site for a month on the company dime and then came in for meetings every quarter. That way there was the possibility of meeting and interfacing with people and the remote aspect. Why is this understandable? I mean, What purpose could it serve to require someone to be on site when security of data is not an issue (through access to resources)? ~| Adobe® ColdFusion® 8 software 8 is the most important and dramatic release to date Get the Free Trial http://ad.doubleclick.net/clk;192386516;25150098;k Archive: http://www.houseoffusion.com/groups/CF-Jobs-Talk/message.cfm/messageid:3794 Subscription: http://www.houseoffusion.com/groups/CF-Jobs-Talk/subscribe.cfm Unsubscribe: http://www.houseoffusion.com/cf_lists/unsubscribe.cfm?user=11502.10531.11
RE: What is it with telecommuting?
Hopefully whomever takes the White House in November will realize this and keep these jobs in the US. -- Scott Stewart ColdFusion Developer SSTWebworks 4405 Oakshyre Way Raleigh, NC. 27616 (919) 874-6229 (home) (703) 220-2835 (cell) -Original Message- From: Aaron Rouse [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Tuesday, May 20, 2008 3:55 PM To: CF-Jobs-Talk Subject: Re: What is it with telecommuting? True, although when they get that trust lets just hope the trust also does not direct them to just sending the work to a telecommuter who will work for pennies on the dollar overseas. :) On Tue, May 20, 2008 at 2:51 PM, Scott Stewart [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: When proper life cycle development processes are followed, there are deadlines and milestones built in, if your consistently not meeting your deadlines, then the employer can look elsewhere. It's going to come to a point where employers will have to trust their telecommuters, the daily commute is going to become too expensive for even highly paid knowledge workers. Or employers are going to have to subsidize actual commuting, and buy the houses of folks that they want to relocate. -- Scott Stewart ColdFusion Developer SSTWebworks 4405 Oakshyre Way Raleigh, NC. 27616 (919) 874-6229 (home) (703) 220-2835 (cell) -Original Message- From: Jeffry Houser [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Tuesday, May 20, 2008 3:08 PM To: CF-Jobs-Talk Subject: Re: What is it with telecommuting? Communication is easier for many people if it is done in person. I expect this to change in a generation or two, but that is the way it is for many people now. There is also a trust issue. If you're at home and I am paying you hourly, how do I know that you're really doing work for me for all the time I am paying you? How do I even know that you're working at all and are going to meet deadlines? Phillip Vector wrote: On Tue, May 20, 2008 at 11:44 AM, C. Hatton Humphrey [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Understandably, most places want people on-site. The best tele opportunity I was was one where you went on-site for a month on the company dime and then came in for meetings every quarter. That way there was the possibility of meeting and interfacing with people and the remote aspect. Why is this understandable? I mean, What purpose could it serve to require someone to be on site when security of data is not an issue (through access to resources)? ~| Adobe® ColdFusion® 8 software 8 is the most important and dramatic release to date Get the Free Trial http://ad.doubleclick.net/clk;192386516;25150098;k Archive: http://www.houseoffusion.com/groups/CF-Jobs-Talk/message.cfm/messageid:3795 Subscription: http://www.houseoffusion.com/groups/CF-Jobs-Talk/subscribe.cfm Unsubscribe: http://www.houseoffusion.com/cf_lists/unsubscribe.cfm?user=11502.10531.11
Re: What is it with telecommuting?
heh ... I would not hold my breath too long on it actually happening. On Tue, May 20, 2008 at 2:58 PM, Scott Stewart [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Hopefully whomever takes the White House in November will realize this and keep these jobs in the US. -- Scott Stewart ColdFusion Developer SSTWebworks 4405 Oakshyre Way Raleigh, NC. 27616 (919) 874-6229 (home) (703) 220-2835 (cell) -Original Message- From: Aaron Rouse [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Tuesday, May 20, 2008 3:55 PM To: CF-Jobs-Talk Subject: Re: What is it with telecommuting? True, although when they get that trust lets just hope the trust also does not direct them to just sending the work to a telecommuter who will work for pennies on the dollar overseas. :) On Tue, May 20, 2008 at 2:51 PM, Scott Stewart [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: When proper life cycle development processes are followed, there are deadlines and milestones built in, if your consistently not meeting your deadlines, then the employer can look elsewhere. It's going to come to a point where employers will have to trust their telecommuters, the daily commute is going to become too expensive for even highly paid knowledge workers. Or employers are going to have to subsidize actual commuting, and buy the houses of folks that they want to relocate. -- Scott Stewart ColdFusion Developer SSTWebworks 4405 Oakshyre Way Raleigh, NC. 27616 (919) 874-6229 (home) (703) 220-2835 (cell) -Original Message- From: Jeffry Houser [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Tuesday, May 20, 2008 3:08 PM To: CF-Jobs-Talk Subject: Re: What is it with telecommuting? Communication is easier for many people if it is done in person. I expect this to change in a generation or two, but that is the way it is for many people now. There is also a trust issue. If you're at home and I am paying you hourly, how do I know that you're really doing work for me for all the time I am paying you? How do I even know that you're working at all and are going to meet deadlines? Phillip Vector wrote: On Tue, May 20, 2008 at 11:44 AM, C. Hatton Humphrey [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Understandably, most places want people on-site. The best tele opportunity I was was one where you went on-site for a month on the company dime and then came in for meetings every quarter. That way there was the possibility of meeting and interfacing with people and the remote aspect. Why is this understandable? I mean, What purpose could it serve to require someone to be on site when security of data is not an issue (through access to resources)? ~| Adobe® ColdFusion® 8 software 8 is the most important and dramatic release to date Get the Free Trial http://ad.doubleclick.net/clk;192386516;25150098;k Archive: http://www.houseoffusion.com/groups/CF-Jobs-Talk/message.cfm/messageid:3797 Subscription: http://www.houseoffusion.com/groups/CF-Jobs-Talk/subscribe.cfm Unsubscribe: http://www.houseoffusion.com/cf_lists/unsubscribe.cfm?user=11502.10531.11
RE: What is it with telecommuting?
Well, for the most part, you're preaching to the choir here, but here's something to consider: You can't apply the argument unilaterally. When working in a team environment that's collaborative, progressive and energetic, the fastest way to kill it is to have someone working remotely. It simply can't be done when everyone is working at home. There are many times that my colleagues and I jump into a meeting room with a white board and go at it for an hour about architecting an application, or improving processes, or any type of complex problem that needs the face-to-face interaction. We are social animals and teams operate most effectively when they can talk, argue, gesture, sigh, agree, etc. in person. Now, for jobs that are simple maintenance contracts, or there's a single developer working on a project, then telecommuting does make sense since the level of interaction with colleagues is minimal. I've worked in both environments, with my current one, obviously, being an interactive, team-based group. If I interviewed a candidate for my group who voiced a strong preference for working from home, I wouldn't consider him/her. However, for my previous employer, if a person wanted to work from home, it wouldn't be an issue at all. As with most things in life It depends. - Steve Brownlee -Original Message- From: Scott Stewart [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Tuesday, May 20, 2008 1:39 PM To: CF-Jobs-Talk Subject: What is it with telecommuting? I get contacted by recruiters almost daily.. Why is it that in a depressed housing market, many employers won't even consider telecommuters? I do understand the reasoning behind TSI and above clearance contracts, but non secure and private employers really don't have a valid reason not to. The chances of people, especially homeowners, considering relocation right now is almost non existant. Just my $.02. discuss. ~| Adobe® ColdFusion® 8 software 8 is the most important and dramatic release to date Get the Free Trial http://ad.doubleclick.net/clk;192386516;25150098;k Archive: http://www.houseoffusion.com/groups/CF-Jobs-Talk/message.cfm/messageid:3799 Subscription: http://www.houseoffusion.com/groups/CF-Jobs-Talk/subscribe.cfm Unsubscribe: http://www.houseoffusion.com/cf_lists/unsubscribe.cfm?user=11502.10531.11
RE: What is it with telecommuting?
I think sooner than later, it's going to become a necessity. Or employers are going to have to do something to make it lucrative for someone to relocate. I'm able to brainstorm, ask questions and pass information with other developers quite well via email, teleconference, IM and various other means. The technology exists to do everything you've mentioned, remotely. -- Scott Stewart ColdFusion Developer SSTWebworks 4405 Oakshyre Way Raleigh, NC. 27616 (919) 874-6229 (home) (703) 220-2835 (cell) -Original Message- From: Steve Brownlee [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Tuesday, May 20, 2008 4:26 PM To: CF-Jobs-Talk Subject: RE: What is it with telecommuting? Well, for the most part, you're preaching to the choir here, but here's something to consider: You can't apply the argument unilaterally. When working in a team environment that's collaborative, progressive and energetic, the fastest way to kill it is to have someone working remotely. It simply can't be done when everyone is working at home. There are many times that my colleagues and I jump into a meeting room with a white board and go at it for an hour about architecting an application, or improving processes, or any type of complex problem that needs the face-to-face interaction. We are social animals and teams operate most effectively when they can talk, argue, gesture, sigh, agree, etc. in person. Now, for jobs that are simple maintenance contracts, or there's a single developer working on a project, then telecommuting does make sense since the level of interaction with colleagues is minimal. I've worked in both environments, with my current one, obviously, being an interactive, team-based group. If I interviewed a candidate for my group who voiced a strong preference for working from home, I wouldn't consider him/her. However, for my previous employer, if a person wanted to work from home, it wouldn't be an issue at all. As with most things in life It depends. - Steve Brownlee -Original Message- From: Scott Stewart [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Tuesday, May 20, 2008 1:39 PM To: CF-Jobs-Talk Subject: What is it with telecommuting? I get contacted by recruiters almost daily.. Why is it that in a depressed housing market, many employers won't even consider telecommuters? I do understand the reasoning behind TSI and above clearance contracts, but non secure and private employers really don't have a valid reason not to. The chances of people, especially homeowners, considering relocation right now is almost non existant. Just my $.02. discuss. ~| Adobe® ColdFusion® 8 software 8 is the most important and dramatic release to date Get the Free Trial http://ad.doubleclick.net/clk;192386516;25150098;k Archive: http://www.houseoffusion.com/groups/CF-Jobs-Talk/message.cfm/messageid:3800 Subscription: http://www.houseoffusion.com/groups/CF-Jobs-Talk/subscribe.cfm Unsubscribe: http://www.houseoffusion.com/cf_lists/unsubscribe.cfm?user=11502.10531.11
RE: What is it with telecommuting?
I agree 99% and that last 1% is that it can't be done as effectively. Yes, you can exchange emails and IM's and talk on the phone, but it just can't replace the face-to-face interaction in some situations. - Steve -Original Message- From: Scott Stewart [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Tuesday, May 20, 2008 3:52 PM To: CF-Jobs-Talk Subject: RE: What is it with telecommuting? I think sooner than later, it's going to become a necessity. Or employers are going to have to do something to make it lucrative for someone to relocate. I'm able to brainstorm, ask questions and pass information with other developers quite well via email, teleconference, IM and various other means. The technology exists to do everything you've mentioned, remotely. -- Scott Stewart ColdFusion Developer SSTWebworks 4405 Oakshyre Way Raleigh, NC. 27616 (919) 874-6229 (home) (703) 220-2835 (cell) ~| Adobe® ColdFusion® 8 software 8 is the most important and dramatic release to date Get the Free Trial http://ad.doubleclick.net/clk;192386516;25150098;k Archive: http://www.houseoffusion.com/groups/CF-Jobs-Talk/message.cfm/messageid:3801 Subscription: http://www.houseoffusion.com/groups/CF-Jobs-Talk/subscribe.cfm Unsubscribe: http://www.houseoffusion.com/cf_lists/unsubscribe.cfm?user=11502.10531.11
Re: What is it with telecommuting?
Agreed. I live just outside of Tampa, where the housing crisis is really bad, and I wouldn't consider moving... -- C. Hatton Humphrey Understandably, most places want people on-site. The best tele opportunity I was was one where you went on-site for a month on the company dime and then came in for meetings every quarter. That way there was the possibility of meeting and interfacing with people and the remote aspect. == That's also how I pitched to some recruiters as well, which seems to be logical... -- Jeffry Houser There is also a trust issue. If you're at home and I am paying you hourly, how do I know that you're really doing work for me for all the time I am paying you? How do I even know that you're working at all and are going to meet deadlines? == The above Hatton's approach + permission-based remote software to track activity/time expenditure of a given IP (that's the idea) ... -- Aaron Rouse although when they get that trust lets just hope the trust also does not direct them to just sending the work to a telecommuter who will work for pennies on the dollar overseas. :) low paying/environmental damaging jobs can go overseas but NOT good-paying jobs like IT above certain level (win bigger, lose little). The trend (or rather policy) of allowing good-paying jobs going overseas in the name of whatever nonsense would have the unintended consequence of shrinking the middle class in this country. Thanks. ~| Adobe® ColdFusion® 8 software 8 is the most important and dramatic release to date Get the Free Trial http://ad.doubleclick.net/clk;192386516;25150098;k Archive: http://www.houseoffusion.com/groups/CF-Jobs-Talk/message.cfm/messageid:3802 Subscription: http://www.houseoffusion.com/groups/CF-Jobs-Talk/subscribe.cfm Unsubscribe: http://www.houseoffusion.com/cf_lists/unsubscribe.cfm?user=11502.10531.11
Re: What is it with telecommuting?
When/if Kroger relocates someone they valuate the house and buy it out after 90 or 120 days (something like that, at least they used to do this). Oh and did I mention we are hiring right now if anyone is interested in relocating to a city that is actually flat in housing values instead of declining ;) Seriously if you are interested we are hiring Cincinnati Ohio, anyone? anyone? Adam Haskell On Tue, May 20, 2008 at 3:51 PM, Scott Stewart [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: When proper life cycle development processes are followed, there are deadlines and milestones built in, if your consistently not meeting your deadlines, then the employer can look elsewhere. It's going to come to a point where employers will have to trust their telecommuters, the daily commute is going to become too expensive for even highly paid knowledge workers. Or employers are going to have to subsidize actual commuting, and buy the houses of folks that they want to relocate. -- Scott Stewart ColdFusion Developer SSTWebworks 4405 Oakshyre Way Raleigh, NC. 27616 (919) 874-6229 (home) (703) 220-2835 (cell) -Original Message- From: Jeffry Houser [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Tuesday, May 20, 2008 3:08 PM To: CF-Jobs-Talk Subject: Re: What is it with telecommuting? Communication is easier for many people if it is done in person. I expect this to change in a generation or two, but that is the way it is for many people now. There is also a trust issue. If you're at home and I am paying you hourly, how do I know that you're really doing work for me for all the time I am paying you? How do I even know that you're working at all and are going to meet deadlines? Phillip Vector wrote: On Tue, May 20, 2008 at 11:44 AM, C. Hatton Humphrey [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Understandably, most places want people on-site. The best tele opportunity I was was one where you went on-site for a month on the company dime and then came in for meetings every quarter. That way there was the possibility of meeting and interfacing with people and the remote aspect. Why is this understandable? I mean, What purpose could it serve to require someone to be on site when security of data is not an issue (through access to resources)? ~| Adobe® ColdFusion® 8 software 8 is the most important and dramatic release to date Get the Free Trial http://ad.doubleclick.net/clk;192386516;25150098;k Archive: http://www.houseoffusion.com/groups/CF-Jobs-Talk/message.cfm/messageid:3804 Subscription: http://www.houseoffusion.com/groups/CF-Jobs-Talk/subscribe.cfm Unsubscribe: http://www.houseoffusion.com/cf_lists/unsubscribe.cfm?user=11502.10531.11
