spam scoring

[Kay Smoljak]

I have a newsletter blast out system for my clients... and I'd like to
build in a spam-scoring system so that the clients can check their
newsletters before they send them. A support organisation had an
interesting time recently when they mentioned "breast cancer month".

Does anyone know of any code that's available to do this? Maybe a
custom tag or CFC or something?

Thanks!

--
Kay Smoljak
http://kay.zombiecoder.com/

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Big Honking Queries Make Me Want To Scream

[Les Mizzell]

I don't know why I have so much trouble with these...

OK, here's the Setup

I have 4 Tables, with a bunch of stuff to look up in all of them and
then return results. So, simplified:

1. Shows
ShowID
Title
Network - searchable
Desc - searchable

2. SubjectMatter
ShowID
SubjectType - searchable

3. Credits
ShowID
PlayerID
Credit Type - searchable

4. Players
PlayerID
FName
LName

Results I'm looking for is FName LName the Players Table
So, if I search for:
DIRECTORS (from Credits)
SciFi (Network from Shows)
Blood (Desc from Shows)
True Crime (SubjectType from SubjectMatter)

Results format is


Players.FName Players.LName
   
   Shows.Title - Network
   


Any of the search fields can be left BLANK as well, so you could search
only for shows with "Blood" in the description and "True Crime" as the
subject matter - and it would return directors of matching movies from
all networks, for example

I can do this if I make about a dozen smaller queries, which is
obviously a waste of resources. As soon as I try to make a decent
compound query I get buggered though.

So, something like:

SELECT
   Players.FName,
   Players.LName,
   Shows.Title,
   Shows.Network,
   Credits.CreditType
FROM
   Players,
   Credits,
   Shows
   INNER JOIN Credits c ON (Shows.ShowID = c.ShowID)
   INNER JOIN Players p ON (Credits.PlayerID = p.PlayerID),
   SubjectMatter
   INNER JOIN Credits d ON (SubjectMatter.ShowID = d.ShowID)
   INNER JOIN Players l ON (Credits.PlayerID = l.PlayerID)
WHERE
   (Shows.Network = '#form.network#')
AND (Credits.CreditType = '#form.credittype#')
 AND (Shows.Logline like '%#form.logline#%')
ORDER BY
   Players.LName


Don't look too bad, but it just times out. I've tried a dozen variations
of this and nothing works so far.
I'm using mySQL.

Ok, pointers and a link to the definitive SQL Inner Join Tutorial might
be in order now.

Thanks,

-- 
---
Les Mizzell


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Re: Solved: Client/Session Variable: When to set?

[Matt Robertson]

As Matthew pointed out, to a ColdFusion developer these are not
session variables.  They are URL variables.

Session variables (and client variables, which you also mentioned) are
very specific things and very different from passing session
identifiers via the URL (which is, as the articles point out,
problematic at best and an extremely bad idea at worst).

Sounds like you need to use session variables to overcome this problem :-)

http://livedocs.macromedia.com/coldfusion/7/htmldocs/wwhelp/wwhimpl/common/html/wwhelp.htm?href=0911.htm

--mattRobertson--
Janitor, MSB Web Systems
mysecretbase.com

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Re: email code in cfc

[dave]

thanks was just curious, hadnt done that yet :)

~Dave the disruptor~
"Some people just don't appreciate how difficult it is to dispense wisdom and 
abuse at the same time." 


From: "John C. Bland II" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Sent: Friday, October 28, 2005 12:29 AM
To: CF-Talk 
Subject: Re: email code in cfc 

I've been doing it for years but it doesn't mean its right. :-) It
definitely works and I don't seen any reason why you wouldn't/shouldn't.

On 10/27/05, dave  wrote:
>
> what the limitations of running cfmail in a cfc? any? at all?
>
> ~Dave the disruptor~
> "Some people just don't appreciate how difficult it is to dispense wisdom
> and abuse at the same time."
>
>
>
> 



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RE: Client/Session Variable: When to set?

[Justin D. Scott]

> I may sound stupid:  spiders bots can detect whether
> or not session/client variables has been set.

By default, ColdFusion uses cookies to store the tokens used to track
sessions, so unless you specifically put them on the URL strings (or forget
to tell CFLOCATION not to include them) the search engines will never see
them on the URL and it will have no affect on your rankings.

The only real reason to pass the tokens around on the URL is if you MUST use
session/client variables in a situation where cookies are not likely to be
available for whatever reason.  It's a pain in the arse, and I try to avoid
it.

Having said that, I don't think it matters one bit where you set them.  If
they're only used in the cart, set and use them in the cart.  No need to use
up memory for people who never go into the cart (not that it really matters
for most sites).


-Justin Scott


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Big Honking Complex Queries Make Me Want To Scream

[Les Mizzell]

I don't know why I have so much trouble with these...

OK, here's the Setup

I have 4 Tables, with a bunch of stuff to look up in all of them and 
then return results. So, simplified:

1. Shows
ShowID
Title
Network - searchable
Desc - searchable

2. SubjectMatter
ShowID
SubjectType - searchable

3. Credits
ShowID
PlayerID
Credit Type - searchable

4. Players
PlayerID
FName
LName

Results I'm looking for is FName LName the Players Table
So, if I search for:
DIRECTORS (from Credits)
SciFi (Network from Shows)
Blood (Desc from Shows)
True Crime (SubjectType from SubjectMatter)

Results format is


Players.FName Players.LName
   
   Shows.Title - Network
   


Any of the search fields can be left BLANK as well, so you could search 
only for shows with "Blood" in the description and "True Crime" as the 
subject matter - and it would return directors of matching movies from 
all networks, for example

I can do this if I make about a dozen smaller queries, which is 
obviously a waste of resources. As soon as I try to make a decent 
compound query I get buggered though.

So, something like:

SELECT
   Players.FName,
   Players.LName,
   Shows.Title,
   Shows.Network,
   Credits.CreditType
FROM
   Players,
   Credits,
   Shows
   INNER JOIN Credits c ON (Shows.ShowID = c.ShowID)
   INNER JOIN Players p ON (Credits.PlayerID = p.PlayerID),
   SubjectMatter
   INNER JOIN Credits d ON (SubjectMatter.ShowID = d.ShowID)
   INNER JOIN Players l ON (Credits.PlayerID = l.PlayerID)
WHERE
   (Shows.Network = '#form.network#')
AND (Credits.CreditType = '#form.credittype#')
 AND (Shows.Logline like '%#form.logline#%')
ORDER BY
   Players.LName


Don't look too bad, but it just times out. I've tried a dozen variations 
of this and nothing works so far.
I'm using mySQL.

Ok, pointers and a link to the definitive SQL Inner Join Tutorial might 
be in order now.

Thanks,

-- 
---
Les Mizzell

~|
Logware (www.logware.us): a new and convenient web-based time tracking 
application. Start tracking and documenting hours spent on a project or with a 
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Re: email code in cfc

[John C. Bland II]

I've been doing it for years but it doesn't mean its right. :-) It
definitely works and I don't seen any reason why you wouldn't/shouldn't.

On 10/27/05, dave <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
>
> what the limitations of running cfmail in a cfc? any? at all?
>
> ~Dave the disruptor~
> "Some people just don't appreciate how difficult it is to dispense wisdom
> and abuse at the same time."
>
>
>
> 

~|
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email code in cfc

[dave]

what the limitations of running cfmail in a cfc? any? at all?

~Dave the disruptor~
"Some people just don't appreciate how difficult it is to dispense wisdom and 
abuse at the same time." 



~|
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RE: Inline frames a good alternative for creating web applications?

[Rick Faircloth]

Well...I'll have to pick this up tomorrow.
It's 12:00 midnight here in Georgia (US)
and I've got 30 seconds to be in bed or I turn
into a frog.  My wife wouldn't appreciate that... :o)

Rick


> -Original Message-
> From: Matthew Walker [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]
> Sent: Thursday, October 27, 2005 11:54 PM
> To: CF-Talk
> Subject: RE: Inline frames a good alternative for creating web
> applications?
> 
> 
> It would certainly work. You could consider embedding a visible iframe
> in each box so that when the form was submitted, only that part
> refreshed. That would mitigate the page size issue Barney mentioned (in
> fact it could perform better than an old fashioned design), and save the
> layout from changing each time you submitted the form. 
> 
> -Original Message-
> From: Rick Faircloth [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] 
> Sent: Friday, 28 October 2005 4:45 p.m.
> To: CF-Talk
> Subject: RE: Inline frames a good alternative for creating web
> applications?
> 
> Very nice...I pasted your code below into Homesite and it worked like a
> charm...I guess I just need to dress it up and check out how you worked
> with your DIV's.
> 
> That's a great way to get a lot of information on a page.  I guess I
> could put forms into those DIV's and have sections for "Update Client
> Info"
> "Delete Client" or "Add Client" and instead of sending a user to various
> pages to complete forms and perform the functions, they could do it
> right in the DIV's and expand / collapse as needed.
> 
> Any reason that wouldn't work?  One reason I ask is that I'm working on
> an internal office application to replace some software an insurance
> company was unhappy with...the software was just too complicated for the
> simple tasks they wanted to perform.  They asked me to write an app that
> performed the tasks they needed in an "understandable" manner.
> 
> I've been looking for ways to consolidate adding, updating, and deleting
> into a single page.  This looks like it has potential to do that.
> 
> Rick
> 
> 
> 

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RE: Inline frames a good alternative for creating web applications?

[Rick Faircloth]

So...use an iframe instead of a div or place the iframe in the div?

Rick


> -Original Message-
> From: Matthew Walker [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]
> Sent: Thursday, October 27, 2005 11:54 PM
> To: CF-Talk
> Subject: RE: Inline frames a good alternative for creating web
> applications?
> 
> 
> It would certainly work. You could consider embedding a visible iframe
> in each box so that when the form was submitted, only that part
> refreshed. That would mitigate the page size issue Barney mentioned (in
> fact it could perform better than an old fashioned design), and save the
> layout from changing each time you submitted the form. 


~|
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RE: Inline frames a good alternative for creating web applications?

[Rick Faircloth]

I see your point...


> -Original Message-
> From: James Holmes [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]
> Sent: Thursday, October 27, 2005 11:36 PM
> To: CF-Talk
> Subject: Re: Inline frames a good alternative for creating web
> applications?
> 
> 
> Exactly, that's why the AJAX stuff is so appealing; it's a "get it
> when you need it" approach rather than a "get it all at the start in
> case you need" it one.
> 
> On 10/28/05, Barney Boisvert <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> > Just be careful, because putting all that crap in a single page will
> > make it larger to download and slower to render in the browser.
> 
> 

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RE: Inline frames a good alternative for creating web applications?

[Rick Faircloth]

True, but for an internal application, most of it would be
cached after the first load, right?  Even if it's not, I guess
I have to choose which I prefer: lighter weight or more single-page
functionality...

Rick


> -Original Message-
> From: Barney Boisvert [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]
> Sent: Thursday, October 27, 2005 11:30 PM
> To: CF-Talk
> Subject: Re: Inline frames a good alternative for creating web
> applications?
>
>
> Just be careful, because putting all that crap in a single page will
> make it larger to download and slower to render in the browser.
>
> cheers,
> barneyb
>
> On 10/27/05, Rick Faircloth <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> > Very nice...I pasted your code below into Homesite and it worked
> > like a charm...I guess I just need to dress it up and check out
> > how you worked with your DIV's.
> >
> > That's a great way to get a lot of information on a page.  I
> guess I could
> > put forms into those DIV's and have sections for "Update Client Info"
> > "Delete Client" or "Add Client" and instead of sending a user to various
> > pages to complete forms and perform the functions, they could do it
> > right in the DIV's and expand / collapse as needed.
> >
> > Any reason that wouldn't work?  One reason I ask is that I'm working
> > on an internal office application to replace some software an insurance
> > company was unhappy with...the software was just too complicated for
> > the simple tasks they wanted to perform.  They asked me to write an
> > app that performed the tasks they needed in an "understandable" manner.
> >
> > I've been looking for ways to consolidate adding, updating, and deleting
> > into a single page.  This looks like it has potential to do that.
> >
> > Rick
> >
>
> --
> Barney Boisvert
> [EMAIL PROTECTED]
> 360.319.6145
> http://www.barneyb.com/
>
> Got Gmail? I have 100 invites.
>
> 

~|
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RE: Inline frames a good alternative for creating web applications?

[Matthew Walker]

It would certainly work. You could consider embedding a visible iframe
in each box so that when the form was submitted, only that part
refreshed. That would mitigate the page size issue Barney mentioned (in
fact it could perform better than an old fashioned design), and save the
layout from changing each time you submitted the form. 

-Original Message-
From: Rick Faircloth [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] 
Sent: Friday, 28 October 2005 4:45 p.m.
To: CF-Talk
Subject: RE: Inline frames a good alternative for creating web
applications?

Very nice...I pasted your code below into Homesite and it worked like a
charm...I guess I just need to dress it up and check out how you worked
with your DIV's.

That's a great way to get a lot of information on a page.  I guess I
could put forms into those DIV's and have sections for "Update Client
Info"
"Delete Client" or "Add Client" and instead of sending a user to various
pages to complete forms and perform the functions, they could do it
right in the DIV's and expand / collapse as needed.

Any reason that wouldn't work?  One reason I ask is that I'm working on
an internal office application to replace some software an insurance
company was unhappy with...the software was just too complicated for the
simple tasks they wanted to perform.  They asked me to write an app that
performed the tasks they needed in an "understandable" manner.

I've been looking for ways to consolidate adding, updating, and deleting
into a single page.  This looks like it has potential to do that.

Rick


~|
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RE: Solved: Client/Session Variable: When to set?

[Matthew Walker]

That's not "setting" session and client variables. That is including
them in a page URL.

When CF developers talk about session and client veriables, they are
generally referring to variables stored in the session and client
scopes. These variables may never be visible to users. These articles
appear to be referring to variables passed in the URL that are used to
maintain a session. Personally, I don't use variables like these at all.
You only need them if you want to maintain a session without using
cookies. There are a number of potential problems with them, such as
what if Google indexes somebody's URL with these variables visible (this
can happen if you have Google toolbar) and then people start seeing
what's in somebody else's cart. Oh dear. What I'm saying is that
maintaining state without cookies is a can of worms. 


-Original Message-
From: Nomad [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] 
Sent: Friday, 28 October 2005 4:16 p.m.
To: CF-Talk
Subject: Solved: Client/Session Variable: When to set?

Hello
Googled with the keywords "session variables and search engine ranking"

http://uglyduckling.net.au/web-designer-pitfalls.html
http://www.seomoz.org/articles/search-ranking-factors.php#5
http://www.livingroom.org.au/searchengineoptimization/archives/top_10_se
arch
_engine_positioning_mistakes.php


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Re: Inline frames a good alternative for creating web applications?

[James Holmes]

Exactly, that's why the AJAX stuff is so appealing; it's a "get it
when you need it" approach rather than a "get it all at the start in
case you need" it one.

On 10/28/05, Barney Boisvert <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> Just be careful, because putting all that crap in a single page will
> make it larger to download and slower to render in the browser.

~|
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RE: Inline frames a good alternative for creating web applications?

[Rick Faircloth]

Looks good, James...I like the "Beginner", "Intermediate",  and
"Advanced" divisions...I know just where I need to start... ;o)

Thanks,

Rick


> -Original Message-
> From: James Holmes [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]
> Sent: Thursday, October 27, 2005 11:24 PM
> To: CF-Talk
> Subject: Re: Inline frames a good alternative for creating web
> applications?
> 
> 
> http://www.quirksmode.org/js/
> 
> On 10/28/05, Rick Faircloth <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> > Gotcha...I guess sooner or later I'm gonna have to break down
> > and find a "Javascript for Dummies" and subdue this gorilla.
> >
> > If you were about to start a JS-learning journey, where would you
> > turn first?
> 
> 

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Re: Inline frames a good alternative for creating web applications?

[Barney Boisvert]

Just be careful, because putting all that crap in a single page will
make it larger to download and slower to render in the browser.

cheers,
barneyb

On 10/27/05, Rick Faircloth <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> Very nice...I pasted your code below into Homesite and it worked
> like a charm...I guess I just need to dress it up and check out
> how you worked with your DIV's.
>
> That's a great way to get a lot of information on a page.  I guess I could
> put forms into those DIV's and have sections for "Update Client Info"
> "Delete Client" or "Add Client" and instead of sending a user to various
> pages to complete forms and perform the functions, they could do it
> right in the DIV's and expand / collapse as needed.
>
> Any reason that wouldn't work?  One reason I ask is that I'm working
> on an internal office application to replace some software an insurance
> company was unhappy with...the software was just too complicated for
> the simple tasks they wanted to perform.  They asked me to write an
> app that performed the tasks they needed in an "understandable" manner.
>
> I've been looking for ways to consolidate adding, updating, and deleting
> into a single page.  This looks like it has potential to do that.
>
> Rick
>

--
Barney Boisvert
[EMAIL PROTECTED]
360.319.6145
http://www.barneyb.com/

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RE: Inline frames a good alternative for creating web applications?

[Rick Faircloth]

Very nice...I pasted your code below into Homesite and it worked
like a charm...I guess I just need to dress it up and check out
how you worked with your DIV's.

That's a great way to get a lot of information on a page.  I guess I could
put forms into those DIV's and have sections for "Update Client Info"
"Delete Client" or "Add Client" and instead of sending a user to various
pages to complete forms and perform the functions, they could do it
right in the DIV's and expand / collapse as needed.

Any reason that wouldn't work?  One reason I ask is that I'm working
on an internal office application to replace some software an insurance
company was unhappy with...the software was just too complicated for
the simple tasks they wanted to perform.  They asked me to write an
app that performed the tasks they needed in an "understandable" manner.

I've been looking for ways to consolidate adding, updating, and deleting
into a single page.  This looks like it has potential to do that.

Rick


> -Original Message-
> From: Matthew Walker [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]
> Sent: Thursday, October 27, 2005 10:43 PM
> To: CF-Talk
> Subject: RE: Inline frames a good alternative for creating web
> applications?
> 
> 
> > Did you make the sections on the pages
> > collapsible with JS?
> 
> Yes. The JS below is included in an external JS file. The HTML code
> below is wrapped up as a CF custom tag where "myUniqueId" is a tag
> attribute. The attribute needs to be unique for each box or JS doesn't
> know which one you are referring to. The code assumes you have two
> images: collapsed.gif and expanded.gif but will run without them. When
> you click the title bar, three things are toggled: the visibility of the
> box, the arrow image's src attribute, and the arrow image's title
> attribute. The code below will work as is -- just paste into HomeSite. 
> 
> Here's what happens: when you click on the Title DIV the onclick() event
> occurs and the toggleDisplay() function runs. The first line of the
> function puts the div called "myUniqueId" in a variable. This is just to
> save typing. You could replace all the "obj"s with
> "document.getElementById(id)". 
> 
> We determine whether the box is currently expanded or collapsed by
> looking at the DIV tag's display style. If it's set to none, then the
> box is currently hidden so we should expand it, and vice versa.
> 
> splitSrc is all about chopping up the URL of the image so we change the
> name of the image but still keep the path to the image. Toggling the
> image makes the code a bit harder to follow. We take the image path and
> split it into an array. The last entry in the array is either
> "collapsed.gif" or "expanded.gif". 
> 
> The if clause is where we actually start changing things.
> obj.style.display sets the visibility of the box.
> splitSrc[splitSrc.length-1] sets the last entry in the array
> representing the image path. arrow.title sets the IMG tag's title
> attribute. 
> 
> Finally, we turn the array representing the image path back into a
> string with join() and set the IMG tag's src attribute to the new value.
> 
> 
> function toggleDisplay(id) {
>   var obj = document.getElementById(id);
>   var arrow = document.getElementById(id + "_arrow");
>   var expanded = obj.style.display != "none";
>   var splitSrc = arrow.src.split("/");
>   if ( expanded ) {
>   obj.style.display = "none";
>   splitSrc[splitSrc.length-1] = "collapsed.gif";
>   arrow.title = "Expand";
>   }
>   else {
>   obj.style.display = "block";
>   splitSrc[splitSrc.length-1] = "expanded.gif";
>   arrow.title = "Collapse";
>   }
>   arrow.src = splitSrc.join("/");
> }
> 
> 
> 
> 
>onclick="toggleDisplay('myUniqueId')">
>   Title
>src="arrow_expanded.gif">
>   
>   
>   lorem ipsum
>   
>  
> 
> 
> 

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Re: Inline frames a good alternative for creating web applications?

[James Holmes]

http://www.quirksmode.org/js/

On 10/28/05, Rick Faircloth <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> Gotcha...I guess sooner or later I'm gonna have to break down
> and find a "Javascript for Dummies" and subdue this gorilla.
>
> If you were about to start a JS-learning journey, where would you
> turn first?

~|
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RE: Inline frames a good alternative for creating web applications?

[Rick Faircloth]

Gotcha...I guess sooner or later I'm gonna have to break down
and find a "Javascript for Dummies" and subdue this gorilla.

If you were about to start a JS-learning journey, where would you
turn first?

Rick


> -Original Message-
> From: Claude Schneegans [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]
> Sent: Thursday, October 27, 2005 10:23 PM
> To: CF-Talk
> Subject: Re: Inline frames a good alternative for creating web
> applications?
> 
> 
>  >>If you mean I can't climb very high up a corporate ladder,
> 
> No no, what I mean is that dynamic HTML on the server side is pretty 
> good, but there are also things that just can't be done efficiently on 
> server side. Take dynamic menus, online editing, just to name a few. All 
> these take Javascript.
> 



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RE: Inline frames a good alternative for creating web applications?

[Rick Faircloth]

Thanks for the tip, James...I'll check it out.

Rick


> -Original Message-
> From: James Holmes [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]
> Sent: Thursday, October 27, 2005 9:49 PM
> To: CF-Talk
> Subject: Re: Inline frames a good alternative for creating web
> applications?
> 
> 
> It's the simple things that people don't even know you built in that
> can be the most important.
> 
> For example, CFAJAX (your best bet in my opinion, if you want to get
> away with minimal effort in your own JS)  just added the "suggest"
> feature. So, your user can start typing in a textbox and a list of
> matching results pops up for them to click on (a custom autocomplete).
> That's something they'll just use because it's an enhancement to their
> user experience that speeds the data entry. I've been blogging this
> stuff and I just added an article on this feature:
> 
> http://jr-holmes.coldfusionjournal.com/cfajax_suggest.htm
> 
> 

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Solved: Client/Session Variable: When to set?

[Nomad]

Hello
Googled with the keywords "session variables and search engine ranking"

http://uglyduckling.net.au/web-designer-pitfalls.html
http://www.seomoz.org/articles/search-ranking-factors.php#5
http://www.livingroom.org.au/searchengineoptimization/archives/top_10_search
_engine_positioning_mistakes.php

Thanks
Ben

- Original Message -
From: "Nomad" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: "CF-Talk" 
Sent: Friday, October 28, 2005 11:06 AM
Subject: Client/Session Variable: When to set?


> Hello!
>
> Need to clear this up once and for all
> When is the best time to set session/client  variables..(Application page
or
> Cart page for an online shop) and why?
> My understanding is that sites that set session/client variables in
> Application page have poor search engine ranking.
>
> Thanks in advance..
>
> Ben
>
>
> 

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RE: Inline frames a good alternative for creating web applications?

[Matthew Walker]

> Did you make the sections on the pages
> collapsible with JS?

Yes. The JS below is included in an external JS file. The HTML code
below is wrapped up as a CF custom tag where "myUniqueId" is a tag
attribute. The attribute needs to be unique for each box or JS doesn't
know which one you are referring to. The code assumes you have two
images: collapsed.gif and expanded.gif but will run without them. When
you click the title bar, three things are toggled: the visibility of the
box, the arrow image's src attribute, and the arrow image's title
attribute. The code below will work as is -- just paste into HomeSite. 

Here's what happens: when you click on the Title DIV the onclick() event
occurs and the toggleDisplay() function runs. The first line of the
function puts the div called "myUniqueId" in a variable. This is just to
save typing. You could replace all the "obj"s with
"document.getElementById(id)". 

We determine whether the box is currently expanded or collapsed by
looking at the DIV tag's display style. If it's set to none, then the
box is currently hidden so we should expand it, and vice versa.

splitSrc is all about chopping up the URL of the image so we change the
name of the image but still keep the path to the image. Toggling the
image makes the code a bit harder to follow. We take the image path and
split it into an array. The last entry in the array is either
"collapsed.gif" or "expanded.gif". 

The if clause is where we actually start changing things.
obj.style.display sets the visibility of the box.
splitSrc[splitSrc.length-1] sets the last entry in the array
representing the image path. arrow.title sets the IMG tag's title
attribute. 

Finally, we turn the array representing the image path back into a
string with join() and set the IMG tag's src attribute to the new value.


function toggleDisplay(id) {
var obj = document.getElementById(id);
var arrow = document.getElementById(id + "_arrow");
var expanded = obj.style.display != "none";
var splitSrc = arrow.src.split("/");
if ( expanded ) {
obj.style.display = "none";
splitSrc[splitSrc.length-1] = "collapsed.gif";
arrow.title = "Expand";
}
else {
obj.style.display = "block";
splitSrc[splitSrc.length-1] = "expanded.gif";
arrow.title = "Collapse";
}
arrow.src = splitSrc.join("/");
}





Title



lorem ipsum

 


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Re: Inline frames a good alternative for creating web applications?

[Claude Schneegans]

 >>If you mean I can't climb very high up a corporate ladder,

No no, what I mean is that dynamic HTML on the server side is pretty 
good, but there are also things that just can't be done efficiently on 
server side. Take dynamic menus, online editing, just to name a few. All 
these take Javascript.

-- 
___
REUSE CODE! Use custom tags;
See http://www.contentbox.com/claude/customtags/tagstore.cfm
(Please send any spam to this address: [EMAIL PROTECTED])
Thanks.


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Re: timed event in CF

[Roberto Perez]

At 05:50 PM 10/25/2005, Alan Rother wrote:

>  If so, what you need to do is simply run a check against this data, so that
>if right now is not within one of these date ranges you cannot access the
>area. Consider this to be a sort of security system much like you would use
>for a login area.


I also got a suggestion to set the values in the application.cfm page like 
this:


Application.startMonth = 1;
Application.startDay = 5;
Application.endMonth = 1;
Application.endDay = 21;


Now, since I have the values stored in a database anyway...what about 
performing the query in the application.cfm page and then putting those 
values within the CFSCRIPT tags? Would that run the query "each time" a 
page is called (thus creating an unnecessary load on the database), or 
would the query run only "the first time" a page within that folder (where 
application.cfm is) is called, not running again as long as the user stays 
within the contents of that folder (i.e., visiting other pages within that 
folder)?

Thanks,

Roberto Perez
[EMAIL PROTECTED]


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Re: Problem in a Simple webservice: 1D array works 2D fails

[James Holmes]

A query might work too (which is a 2d array with named columns, if you
like to think of it that way).

On 10/28/05, Will Tomlinson <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> >Sigh. I'm having a problem returning an array from a webservice. It works
> >when the array is only 1 dimension. When the array
>
> >has 2 dimensions it does not work. I'm thinking that 2D arrays are
> >supported...
>
>
> Could you use a Structure instead of an array?

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Re: Client/Session Variable: When to set?

[Matt Robertson]

On 10/27/05, Nomad <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> I am told setting it in the application.cfm page could hurt google rankings.
> ... spiders bots can detect whether or not session/client
> variables has been set.
> I am certain about this.

Sorry but that is just flat out impossible, unless you are setting the
variable which in turn has some sort of effect on the browsing
experience.  For example, if a page needs a particular variable in
memory (like a postal code) to allow you to proceed through the
checkout process.  But you wouldn't want a cart checkout page to be
spidered, anyway and would exclude that page in your robots.txt file.

If you are seeing changes in rankings it has no bearing on when a
variable is set.  Its what you do with the variable value that
matters.

--
--mattRobertson--
Janitor, MSB Web Systems
mysecretbase.com

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Re: Problem in a Simple webservice: 1D array works 2D fails

[Will Tomlinson]

>Sigh. I'm having a problem returning an array from a webservice. It works
>when the array is only 1 dimension. When the array 

>has 2 dimensions it does not work. I'm thinking that 2D arrays are
>supported...


Could you use a Structure instead of an array? 

Will

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Re: Inline frames a good alternative for creating web applications?

[James Holmes]

It's the simple things that people don't even know you built in that
can be the most important.

For example, CFAJAX (your best bet in my opinion, if you want to get
away with minimal effort in your own JS)  just added the "suggest"
feature. So, your user can start typing in a textbox and a list of
matching results pops up for them to click on (a custom autocomplete).
That's something they'll just use because it's an enhancement to their
user experience that speeds the data entry. I've been blogging this
stuff and I just added an article on this feature:

http://jr-holmes.coldfusionjournal.com/cfajax_suggest.htm

~|
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Re: Oracle IN limit

[Troy Simpson]

1000

--
Thanks,
Troy

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RE: Inline frames a good alternative for creating web applications?

[Rick Faircloth]

Nice looking site, Matthew.

Did you make the sections on the pages
collapsible with JS?

Rick


> -Original Message-
> From: Matthew Walker [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]
> Sent: Thursday, October 27, 2005 9:21 PM
> To: CF-Talk
> Subject: RE: Inline frames a good alternative for creating web
> applications?
> 
> 
> > Most of my clients do a poor job of utilizing the capabilities I build
> into their
> > websites now...
> 
> Personally, I use hidden iframes techniques sparingly because I'm lazy.
> One good use is where you want to make a tiny change to a big page. For
> example, on this site of mine (www.tramper.co.nz) you can "bookmark"
> pages if you are logged in. Instead of reloading the entire page --
> which would be slow, confusing, and harder on the server -- a hidden
> iframe is used to update the bookmark and display bookmark added /
> removed messages. The JS is exceedingly simple as both messages are
> already part of the page and the script merely swaps which one is
> visible. 
> 
> The point is that you can potentially add some good functionality with
> minimal JS. So while you (like me) may not have time to learn JS inside
> out, there may be real benefit to learning just a little, such as
> toggling visibility by manipulating styles, and perhaps displaying
> messages using the innerHTML property. 
> 

> Unsubscribe: 
http://www.houseoffusion.com/cf_lists/unsubscribe.cfm?user=17393.628.4
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RE: Inline frames a good alternative for creating web applications?

[Rick Faircloth]

> there may be real benefit to learning just a little

That's mostly how I go about learning new methods and technologies...
I incorporate them a little at a time, building on knowledge while
continuing to get work done.

Sometimes it gets frustrating trying to find "usable" tidbits
that I can incorporate quickly and learn a little.  I want to learn
new things a little at a time, not all at once, or from the ground up.
If a technology proves itself in small ways, then I'll recognize that
it's worth the investment of more time.

Any favorite sources for JS "tidbits" that I can draw upon that come
with good explanations of what I'm coding?

Rick


> -Original Message-
> From: Matthew Walker [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]
> Sent: Thursday, October 27, 2005 9:21 PM
> To: CF-Talk
> Subject: RE: Inline frames a good alternative for creating web
> applications?
> 
> 
> > Most of my clients do a poor job of utilizing the capabilities I build
> into their
> > websites now...
> 
> Personally, I use hidden iframes techniques sparingly because I'm lazy.
> One good use is where you want to make a tiny change to a big page. For
> example, on this site of mine (www.tramper.co.nz) you can "bookmark"
> pages if you are logged in. Instead of reloading the entire page --
> which would be slow, confusing, and harder on the server -- a hidden
> iframe is used to update the bookmark and display bookmark added /
> removed messages. The JS is exceedingly simple as both messages are
> already part of the page and the script merely swaps which one is
> visible. 
> 
> The point is that you can potentially add some good functionality with
> minimal JS. So while you (like me) may not have time to learn JS inside
> out, there may be real benefit to learning just a little, such as
> toggling visibility by manipulating styles, and perhaps displaying
> messages using the innerHTML property. 
> 
> 

~|
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Re: anti-sp*m email addy hiding techniques

[Stan Winchester]

Does this work for you?


   function safeEmail(email){
 var atSignPos = Find("@",email);
 var name = left(email,atSignPos-1);
 var emailLen = len(email);
 var domainLen = emailLen - atSignPos;
 var domain = right(email,domainLen);
 var temp = '
 
   
  
  ';
 
 return temp;
   }
   
   writeOutput(safeEmail("[EMAIL PROTECTED]"));



> thanks :)
> 
> ~Dave the disruptor~
> "Some people just don't appreciate how difficult it is to dispense 
> wisdom and abuse at the same time." 
> 
> 
> From: Jon Austin <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
> Sent: Thursday, October 27, 2005 1:40 AM
> To: CF-Talk 
> Subject: Re: anti-sp*m email addy hiding techniques 
> 
> On 10/27/05, dave  wrote:
> > anyone have any tricks that actually work? besides making it like me 
> at mysite.com.
> > I know there is a udf on cflib but like the comment says its really 
> not a good solution.
> 
> Get JS to abstract it and write it out..
> 
> E.g. Sample JS/HTML output would be:
> 
> ',x9n,'@',r1x,
> ''); // -->
> 

~|
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application. Start tracking and documenting hours spent on a project or with a 
client with Logware today. Try it for free with a 15 day trial account.
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RE: Inline frames a good alternative for creating web applications?

[Rick Faircloth]

I see your point about usability being and "disabler"
of usage, but that's not the problem with my clients.
They don't get the power of the apps to help build
customer relationships, as in Customer Relationship Management.

They don't want to spend time with Email Newsletter systems,
although they're as easy to use as clicking the mouse as little
as 3 times to send out a newsletter full of info to their customers.

Mostly, they're just lazy and won't change their work habits to
incorporate these tools into their workflowdrives me nuts...then
they complain when business is bad...(sigh)...

That's why I don't think putting a lot of time into UI's will make
any difference...it's not the UI's I build, but the client's indifference.
They ask for it, pay for it, then don't use it...all I can do is supply
the water for the horses...

As it is, learning and implementing new methodologies
would just be a waste of time and energy.

Rick


> -Original Message-
> From: Calvin Ward [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]
> Sent: Thursday, October 27, 2005 8:56 PM
> To: CF-Talk
> Subject: RE: Inline frames a good alternative for creating web
> applications?
>
>
> Well, that's part of the point. AJAX and related interface
> methodologies can
> improve the user experience and potentially create a superior interaction
> layer that may then result in better usage of the functionality.
>
> AJAX can be used a functionality enabler, instead of as
> functionality in and
> of itself.
>
> - Calvin
>
> -Original Message-
> From: Rick Faircloth [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]
> Sent: Thursday, October 27, 2005 7:18 PM
> To: CF-Talk
> Subject: RE: Inline frames a good alternative for creating web
> applications?
>
> Marketability...now that's true...but I can't get my clients to use well
> what I build now for them, much less fancy apps based on AS, JS, AJAX, and
> Flash...
>
> Rick
>
>
> > -Original Message-
> > From: Calvin Ward [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]
> > Sent: Thursday, October 27, 2005 6:12 PM
> > To: CF-Talk
> > Subject: RE: Inline frames a good alternative for creating web
> > applications?
> >
> >
> > I mean employability in a more broad sense than being an employee.
> >
> > If you prefer, replace employability with marketability... :)
> >
> > -Original Message-
> > From: Rick Faircloth [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]
> > Sent: Thursday, October 27, 2005 5:23 PM
> > To: CF-Talk
> > Subject: RE: Inline frames a good alternative for creating web
> > applications?
> >
> > Not interested in employability as in "being an employee"...
> > I'm self-employed and plan to stay that way...can never be fired.
> > Does have its drawbacks, but for me it's the only way to go.
> >
> > Rick
> >
> >
> > > -Original Message-
> > > From: Calvin Ward [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]
> > > Sent: Thursday, October 27, 2005 5:03 PM
> > > To: CF-Talk
> > > Subject: RE: Inline frames a good alternative for creating web
> > > applications?
> > >
> > >
> > > Additionally, learning Javascript when in a web appllication world,
> > > can only improve your capabilities and employablity
> > >
> > > -Original Message-
> > > From: Matthew Small [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]
> > > Sent: Thursday, October 27, 2005 3:56 PM
> > > To: CF-Talk
> > > Subject: RE: Inline frames a good alternative for creating web
> > > applications?
> > >
> > > Seems like you're doing more work trying to avoid work.
> > >
> > > - Matt Small
> > >
> > > -Original Message-
> > > From: Rick Faircloth [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]
> > > Sent: Thursday, October 27, 2005 3:50 PM
> > > To: CF-Talk
> > > Subject: RE: Inline frames a good alternative for creating web
> > > applications?
> > >
> > > Thanks for the insights, Barney...
> > >
> > > Question:  Can an inline frame be setup to trigger another iframe
> > > when some action is performed that triggers it?
> > >
> > > Not clear, I know...so...a scenario...
> > >
> > > Three iframes on a page...click on a link in first frame, second
> > > frame responds, and causes third frame to respondlike a chain
> reaction.
> > > If so, would this substitute for concurrency?
> > >
> > > Rick
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > > > -Original Message-
> > > > From: Barney Boisvert [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]
> > > > Sent: Thursday, October 27, 2005 3:38 PM
> > > > To: CF-Talk
> > > > Subject: Re: Inline frames a good alternative for creating web
> > > > applications?
> > > >
> > > >
> > > > The biggest problem with using frames is concurrency.  You can't
> > > > do more than one thing at a time (unless you have two frames, then
> > > > it's two things at a time), which can be very troubling.  With
> > > > Flash and JS remoting you can perform multiple concurrent actions,
> > > > which is very useful.  You also get the capability to pass complex
> > > > data fairly easily, and move a lot of your UI logic to the
> > > > client-side, which results in a far better user experience.
> > > >
> > > > And don't think you can use inline fram

RE: Inline frames a good alternative for creating web applications?

[Matthew Walker]

> Most of my clients do a poor job of utilizing the capabilities I build
into their
> websites now...

Personally, I use hidden iframes techniques sparingly because I'm lazy.
One good use is where you want to make a tiny change to a big page. For
example, on this site of mine (www.tramper.co.nz) you can "bookmark"
pages if you are logged in. Instead of reloading the entire page --
which would be slow, confusing, and harder on the server -- a hidden
iframe is used to update the bookmark and display bookmark added /
removed messages. The JS is exceedingly simple as both messages are
already part of the page and the script merely swaps which one is
visible. 

The point is that you can potentially add some good functionality with
minimal JS. So while you (like me) may not have time to learn JS inside
out, there may be real benefit to learning just a little, such as
toggling visibility by manipulating styles, and perhaps displaying
messages using the innerHTML property. 

~|
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RE: Client/Session Variable: When to set?

[Matthew Walker]

> I have seen google links to some items on the website that actually 
> included the session id/ Cfid tokens.

I'm pretty sure the default behaviour of cflocation is to include these,
so that may be the source of them. Check all your cflocations have:
addtoken="No"

~|
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Re: Inline frames a good alternative for creating web applications?

[Barney Boisvert]

Couldn't have said it better myself.  You don't write an app with JS
remoting, you make an app easier to use with JS remoting.  I can't
think of an app that you couldn't develop without using JS remoting,
but I can think of a lot of apps that would be unusable without it.

cheers,
barneyb

On 10/27/05, Calvin Ward <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> Well, that's part of the point. AJAX and related interface methodologies can
> improve the user experience and potentially create a superior interaction
> layer that may then result in better usage of the functionality.
>
> AJAX can be used a functionality enabler, instead of as functionality in and
> of itself.
>
> - Calvin
>
--
Barney Boisvert
[EMAIL PROTECTED]
360.319.6145
http://www.barneyb.com/

Got Gmail? I have 100 invites.

~|
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RE: Inline frames a good alternative for creating web applications?

[Calvin Ward]

Well, that's part of the point. AJAX and related interface methodologies can
improve the user experience and potentially create a superior interaction
layer that may then result in better usage of the functionality.

AJAX can be used a functionality enabler, instead of as functionality in and
of itself.

- Calvin 

-Original Message-
From: Rick Faircloth [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] 
Sent: Thursday, October 27, 2005 7:18 PM
To: CF-Talk
Subject: RE: Inline frames a good alternative for creating web applications?

Marketability...now that's true...but I can't get my clients to use well
what I build now for them, much less fancy apps based on AS, JS, AJAX, and
Flash...

Rick


> -Original Message-
> From: Calvin Ward [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]
> Sent: Thursday, October 27, 2005 6:12 PM
> To: CF-Talk
> Subject: RE: Inline frames a good alternative for creating web 
> applications?
> 
> 
> I mean employability in a more broad sense than being an employee.
> 
> If you prefer, replace employability with marketability... :)
> 
> -Original Message-
> From: Rick Faircloth [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]
> Sent: Thursday, October 27, 2005 5:23 PM
> To: CF-Talk
> Subject: RE: Inline frames a good alternative for creating web 
> applications?
> 
> Not interested in employability as in "being an employee"...
> I'm self-employed and plan to stay that way...can never be fired.
> Does have its drawbacks, but for me it's the only way to go.
> 
> Rick
> 
> 
> > -Original Message-
> > From: Calvin Ward [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]
> > Sent: Thursday, October 27, 2005 5:03 PM
> > To: CF-Talk
> > Subject: RE: Inline frames a good alternative for creating web 
> > applications?
> > 
> > 
> > Additionally, learning Javascript when in a web appllication world, 
> > can only improve your capabilities and employablity
> > 
> > -Original Message-
> > From: Matthew Small [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]
> > Sent: Thursday, October 27, 2005 3:56 PM
> > To: CF-Talk
> > Subject: RE: Inline frames a good alternative for creating web 
> > applications?
> > 
> > Seems like you're doing more work trying to avoid work.
> > 
> > - Matt Small
> > 
> > -Original Message-
> > From: Rick Faircloth [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]
> > Sent: Thursday, October 27, 2005 3:50 PM
> > To: CF-Talk
> > Subject: RE: Inline frames a good alternative for creating web 
> > applications?
> > 
> > Thanks for the insights, Barney...
> > 
> > Question:  Can an inline frame be setup to trigger another iframe 
> > when some action is performed that triggers it?
> > 
> > Not clear, I know...so...a scenario...
> > 
> > Three iframes on a page...click on a link in first frame, second 
> > frame responds, and causes third frame to respondlike a chain
reaction.
> > If so, would this substitute for concurrency?
> > 
> > Rick
> > 
> > 
> > 
> > > -Original Message-
> > > From: Barney Boisvert [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]
> > > Sent: Thursday, October 27, 2005 3:38 PM
> > > To: CF-Talk
> > > Subject: Re: Inline frames a good alternative for creating web 
> > > applications?
> > >
> > >
> > > The biggest problem with using frames is concurrency.  You can't 
> > > do more than one thing at a time (unless you have two frames, then 
> > > it's two things at a time), which can be very troubling.  With 
> > > Flash and JS remoting you can perform multiple concurrent actions, 
> > > which is very useful.  You also get the capability to pass complex 
> > > data fairly easily, and move a lot of your UI logic to the 
> > > client-side, which results in a far better user experience.
> > >
> > > And don't think you can use inline frames without JS.  When the 
> > > frame loads, you have to parse out the content that you need, and 
> > > then rebuild the visible document with that new content.
> > >
> > > cheers,
> > > barneyb
> > >
> > > On 10/27/05, Rick Faircloth <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> > > > Hi, all...
> > > >
> > > > I've been interested in building web applications that don't 
> > > > require a page refresh for a few years now.  First Iooked at 
> > > > Flash...didn't like it a few versions ago...and still don't.
> > > > Don't want to work with the Flash GUI or learn ActionScript.
> > > >
> > > > Now, along comes AJAX...everyone's excited.  But upon further 
> > > > examination, to use it I've got to learn Javascript and other
> > > technologies
> > > > about which I know virtually nothing.  (And no...I don't have a 
> > > > market at this time that would justify the effort)
> > > >
> > > > My question is this...why not just use inline frames (as someone 
> > > > mentioned recently as their method for building applications)
> > > to simulate
> > > > "non-page refreshing" apps?
> > > >
> > > > I've used them a little, but not a lot, so I'd like some 
> > > > feedback on what the drawbacks are to building apps using inline 
> > > > frames...I
> > > can stick
> > > > to Cold Fusion and HTML alone...no Javascript, no 
> > > > Actionscript...sound

Re: anti-sp*m email addy hiding techniques

[dave]

thanks :)

~Dave the disruptor~
"Some people just don't appreciate how difficult it is to dispense wisdom and 
abuse at the same time." 


From: Jon Austin <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Sent: Thursday, October 27, 2005 1:40 AM
To: CF-Talk 
Subject: Re: anti-sp*m email addy hiding techniques 

On 10/27/05, dave  wrote:
> anyone have any tricks that actually work? besides making it like me at 
> mysite.com.
> I know there is a udf on cflib but like the comment says its really not a 
> good solution.

Get JS to abstract it and write it out..

E.g. Sample JS/HTML output would be:

',x9n,'@',r1x,
''); // -->



~|
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RE: Client/Session Variable: When to set?

[Bobby Hartsfield]

Where the variables were set has nothing to do with it. (the vars you are
seeing in search results weren't actually set via  anyway) They show
up there because they are passed via url by someone who:

A) got a little lazy 
B) goofed (we all goof)
C) didn’t know any better
 
That being said, most people tend to use the Application.cfm for specific
application settings. (setting session variables for a shopping cart that is
probably PART of the overall application is not one of those specific
application settings). It is used sparingly it most cases due to one simple
reason... everything in the Application.cfm is ran on every page that
inherits it.

Personally, I don't think I have any applications out there that have more
than 2 application.cfm templates. One in the main root where 
settings are handled and  template is set. (that’s all)

The other would be in the top level of the backend to cfinclude the primary
application.cfm and a login checker 'thing-a-majigger' to secure the section
behind a login form/process.

If you put something like session var cfsets in the main Application.cfm,
they will be there on EVERY page of your application that doesn't have it's
own Application.cfm. If your app is only a shopping cart then maybe that’s a
feasible place for you to put it, else I'd find somewhere else.

As for passing the cfids and tokens through url variables, I usually avoid
that at all costs. I've never seen (first hand) any reason what-so-ever to
do it.

..:.:.:.:.:.:.:.:.:.:.:.:.:.:.
Bobby Hartsfield
http://acoderslife.com


-Original Message-
From: Nomad [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] 
Sent: Thursday, October 27, 2005 7:13 PM
To: CF-Talk
Subject: Re: Client/Session Variable: When to set?

Hi Matthew,
Client/ session variables are not required to view pages .. it is being used
for managing the shopping cart.
The question is when to set it.  I can set it up in the application.cfm page
or the cart page.
I am told setting it in the application.cfm page could hurt google rankings.
I may sound stupid:  spiders bots can detect whether or not session/client
variables has been set.
I am certain about this.
I have seen google links to some items on the website that actually included
the session id/ Cfid tokens.
Consequently the site ranking was poor.
Just wanted to clarify that.
Ben


- Original Message -
From: "Matthew Walker" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: "CF-Talk" 
Sent: Friday, October 28, 2005 11:38 AM
Subject: RE: Client/Session Variable: When to set?


> By "Application page" do you mean Application.cfm? If you do, then the
> search engine bot is never going to know where the session/client
> variables are being set.
>
> In general, you probably want to allow bots to spider the pages of your
> shop, but surely client and session variables are irrelevant for viewing
> pages of your shop catalogue?
>
> -Original Message-
> From: Nomad [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]
> Sent: Friday, 28 October 2005 11:31 a.m.
> To: CF-Talk
> Subject: Client/Session Variable: When to set?
>
> Hello!
>
> Need to clear this up once and for all
> When is the best time to set session/client  variables..(Application
> page or Cart page for an online shop) and why?
> My understanding is that sites that set session/client variables in
> Application page have poor search engine ranking.
>
> 



~|
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RE: Inline frames a good alternative for creating web applications?

[Rick Faircloth]

Marketability...now that's true...but I can't get my clients
to use well what I build now for them, much less fancy apps
based on AS, JS, AJAX, and Flash...

Rick


> -Original Message-
> From: Calvin Ward [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]
> Sent: Thursday, October 27, 2005 6:12 PM
> To: CF-Talk
> Subject: RE: Inline frames a good alternative for creating web
> applications?
> 
> 
> I mean employability in a more broad sense than being an employee.
> 
> If you prefer, replace employability with marketability... :) 
> 
> -Original Message-
> From: Rick Faircloth [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] 
> Sent: Thursday, October 27, 2005 5:23 PM
> To: CF-Talk
> Subject: RE: Inline frames a good alternative for creating web 
> applications?
> 
> Not interested in employability as in "being an employee"...
> I'm self-employed and plan to stay that way...can never be fired.
> Does have its drawbacks, but for me it's the only way to go.
> 
> Rick
> 
> 
> > -Original Message-
> > From: Calvin Ward [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]
> > Sent: Thursday, October 27, 2005 5:03 PM
> > To: CF-Talk
> > Subject: RE: Inline frames a good alternative for creating web 
> > applications?
> > 
> > 
> > Additionally, learning Javascript when in a web appllication world, 
> > can only improve your capabilities and employablity
> > 
> > -Original Message-
> > From: Matthew Small [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]
> > Sent: Thursday, October 27, 2005 3:56 PM
> > To: CF-Talk
> > Subject: RE: Inline frames a good alternative for creating web 
> > applications?
> > 
> > Seems like you're doing more work trying to avoid work.
> > 
> > - Matt Small
> > 
> > -Original Message-
> > From: Rick Faircloth [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]
> > Sent: Thursday, October 27, 2005 3:50 PM
> > To: CF-Talk
> > Subject: RE: Inline frames a good alternative for creating web 
> > applications?
> > 
> > Thanks for the insights, Barney...
> > 
> > Question:  Can an inline frame be setup to trigger another iframe when 
> > some action is performed that triggers it?
> > 
> > Not clear, I know...so...a scenario...
> > 
> > Three iframes on a page...click on a link in first frame, second frame 
> > responds, and causes third frame to respondlike a chain reaction.  
> > If so, would this substitute for concurrency?
> > 
> > Rick
> > 
> > 
> > 
> > > -Original Message-
> > > From: Barney Boisvert [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]
> > > Sent: Thursday, October 27, 2005 3:38 PM
> > > To: CF-Talk
> > > Subject: Re: Inline frames a good alternative for creating web 
> > > applications?
> > >
> > >
> > > The biggest problem with using frames is concurrency.  You can't do 
> > > more than one thing at a time (unless you have two frames, then it's 
> > > two things at a time), which can be very troubling.  With Flash and 
> > > JS remoting you can perform multiple concurrent actions, which is 
> > > very useful.  You also get the capability to pass complex data 
> > > fairly easily, and move a lot of your UI logic to the client-side, 
> > > which results in a far better user experience.
> > >
> > > And don't think you can use inline frames without JS.  When the 
> > > frame loads, you have to parse out the content that you need, and 
> > > then rebuild the visible document with that new content.
> > >
> > > cheers,
> > > barneyb
> > >
> > > On 10/27/05, Rick Faircloth <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> > > > Hi, all...
> > > >
> > > > I've been interested in building web applications that don't 
> > > > require a page refresh for a few years now.  First Iooked at 
> > > > Flash...didn't like it a few versions ago...and still don't.  
> > > > Don't want to work with the Flash GUI or learn ActionScript.
> > > >
> > > > Now, along comes AJAX...everyone's excited.  But upon further 
> > > > examination, to use it I've got to learn Javascript and other
> > > technologies
> > > > about which I know virtually nothing.  (And no...I don't have a 
> > > > market at this time that would justify the effort)
> > > >
> > > > My question is this...why not just use inline frames (as someone 
> > > > mentioned recently as their method for building applications)
> > > to simulate
> > > > "non-page refreshing" apps?
> > > >
> > > > I've used them a little, but not a lot, so I'd like some feedback 
> > > > on what the drawbacks are to building apps using inline frames...I
> > > can stick
> > > > to Cold Fusion and HTML alone...no Javascript, no 
> > > > Actionscript...sounds good to me.
> > > >
> > > > Can anyone point me to some online examples of significant inline 
> > > > frames usage to build apps?
> > > >
> > > > What am I missing?
> > > >
> > > > Thanks for any feedback and guidance...
> > > >
> > > > Rick
> > > >
> > > >
> > >
> > > --
> > > Barney Boisvert
> > > [EMAIL PROTECTED]
> > > 360.319.6145
> > > http://www.barneyb.com/
> > >
> > > Got Gmail? I have 100 invites.
> > >
> > > 
> > 
> > 
> > 
> > 
> > 
> > 
> 
> 
> 
> 

~

Re: Client/Session Variable: When to set?

[Nomad]

Hi Matthew,
Client/ session variables are not required to view pages .. it is being used
for managing the shopping cart.
The question is when to set it.  I can set it up in the application.cfm page
or the cart page.
I am told setting it in the application.cfm page could hurt google rankings.
I may sound stupid:  spiders bots can detect whether or not session/client
variables has been set.
I am certain about this.
I have seen google links to some items on the website that actually included
the session id/ Cfid tokens.
Consequently the site ranking was poor.
Just wanted to clarify that.
Ben


- Original Message -
From: "Matthew Walker" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: "CF-Talk" 
Sent: Friday, October 28, 2005 11:38 AM
Subject: RE: Client/Session Variable: When to set?


> By "Application page" do you mean Application.cfm? If you do, then the
> search engine bot is never going to know where the session/client
> variables are being set.
>
> In general, you probably want to allow bots to spider the pages of your
> shop, but surely client and session variables are irrelevant for viewing
> pages of your shop catalogue?
>
> -Original Message-
> From: Nomad [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]
> Sent: Friday, 28 October 2005 11:31 a.m.
> To: CF-Talk
> Subject: Client/Session Variable: When to set?
>
> Hello!
>
> Need to clear this up once and for all
> When is the best time to set session/client  variables..(Application
> page or Cart page for an online shop) and why?
> My understanding is that sites that set session/client variables in
> Application page have poor search engine ranking.
>
> 

~|
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RE: Inline frames a good alternative for creating web applications?

[Rick Faircloth]

Thanks for the referrel, Matthew...

Rick


> -Original Message-
> From: Matthew Walker [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]
> Sent: Thursday, October 27, 2005 5:58 PM
> To: CF-Talk
> Subject: RE: Inline frames a good alternative for creating web
> applications?
> 
> 
> Some examples of using hidden iframes here. You might find some JS you
> can adapt to your purposes. 
> http://www.eswsoftware.com/products/srs/
> 
> > That's mostly what I've been considering lately...working out
> solutions
> > that involve things that are more easily employed...even if that
> solution
> > is not quite as effective or "elegant" as AS, JS, and AJAX solutions.
> 
> 

~|
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RE: Inline frames a good alternative for creating web applications?

[Rick Faircloth]

> Your resistance to learning various other
> technologies (JS, AS, AJAX, etc) won't get you very far beyond 
> basic CF and HTML, which might work for you but for how long?

That's the question...at what point will my clients demand more than
I can provide with CF and HTML?  Seems like a long time at this point,
but you never know...

Most of my clients do a poor job of utilizing the capabilities I build into
their websites now...there's not much reason to build in a lot of
functionality with technologies that they'll never use...that's a big
frustration of mine.  I try to teach them what's possible, but you know
what they say about a horse and water...

All the time and effort with AS, JS, AJAX, etc., would just be wasted
on them...

Rick


> -Original Message-
> From: Michael T. Tangorre [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]
> Sent: Thursday, October 27, 2005 5:31 PM
> To: CF-Talk
> Subject: RE: Inline frames a good alternative for creating web
> applications?
> 
> 
> > From: Rick Faircloth [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] 
> > That's mostly what I've been considering lately...working out 
> > solutions that involve things that are more easily 
> > employed...even if that solution is not quite as effective or 
> > "elegant" as AS, JS, and AJAX solutions.
> 
> Well, you will need to learn some JS to play games with the div tags. For
> instance, clicking on a button or changing a select box item doesn't
> hide/show a div automatically Your resistance to learning 
> various other
> technologies (JS, AS, AJAX, etc) won't get you very far beyond 
> basic CF and
> HTML, which might work for you but for how long?
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 

~|
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RE: Inline frames a good alternative for creating web applications?

[Rick Faircloth]

> If you don't want to learn and use Javascript, you cannot go very far in
> Web development anyway.

(Sorry for leaving the conversation I started...I asked myself (since I'm
the
boss) if I could get off early and go cycling...I said "yes", so off I
went...)

Depends on how you define "go very far"...I'm doing quite well
with CF and HTML sites with content management systems built-in.

Since I host my own sites, I make money beyond the initial development,
and that's growing all the time.  I've got all I can do now without AS, JS,
or AJAX.

If you mean I can't climb very high up a corporate ladder, well, that's not
right
either, because I'm at the top of my corporate ladder now.  (There's only
one rung on my ladder, however ;o)

I get to work only on the projects I choose and answer to no one for my
decisions.  I get to ignore anything not appealing to me.

I make a good living working comfortably from home on my own schedule and,
like I said, have all the work I can handle...

If I want to take a week off from work and go cycling to Florida, I can do
it
anytime.  Does that meet your criteria for "very far"? Or am I missing
something
better that's "farther away"... I work to live, not live to work...

Rick


> -Original Message-
> From: Claude Schneegans [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]
> Sent: Thursday, October 27, 2005 5:32 PM
> To: CF-Talk
> Subject: Re: Inline frames a good alternative for creating web
> applications?
>
>
>  >>Now, along comes AJAX...everyone's excited.  But upon further
> examination, to use it I've got to learn Javascript and other technologies
> about which I know virtually nothing.
>
> If you don't want to learn and use Javascript, you cannot go very far in
> Web development anyway.
>



~|
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Re: Inline frames a good alternative for creating web applications?

[Robert Munn]

Dave Watts likes to ruminate on this subject. The hidden frames/JS passing of 
data method is something I learned at Fig Leaf in '96 or '97. It works just 
fine, but it still leaves you with the same issues of concurrency that Barney 
highlighted, and you'll still need to learn Javascript to really make use of 
it. 

I've been playing with AJAX frameworks lately and my vote is to give these 
things a little time to mature then use them rather than the frames method. 

Incidentally, I think the reason AJAX is building mindshare is due to the rise 
of libraries/frameworks that take the labor out of using XMLHTTP and CSS/DHTML. 
Even though most of the libraries are still half baked or even just vaporware 
(do a search for AJAX on SourceForge and see what comes up), they represent a 
big jump forward from having to roll this stuff yourself. Why, for instance, 
would you ever write a browser detection script? It's just a background task, 
but a necessary one for building cross-platform AJAX apps. That's why these 
libraries are so important.

I like the Neuromancer library that Rob Rohan and Barney B have been working 
on. It's beta, but it does some neat stuff.

>>Refresh the hidden frame, then use JavaScript to pass the data to the 
>>main display... seems to work just as well, from what I've seen, and 
>>browser support is a little better (older Moz, etc).
>
>Interesting...hadn't even thought about using the hidden frames...I was
>just think about visible inline frames that appear as part of the page
>to display data...
>
>Rick

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Re: Problem in a Simple webservice: 1D array works 2D fails

[Robert Munn]

I was able to replicate this error on CFMX 6.1. According to the Apache Axis 
documentation, 2D array support needs to be enabled through the global Axis 
config. See this document:

http://ws.apache.org/axis/java/reference.html

Note that 2d array support is disabled by default. 

Here is the relevant info:

Global Axis Configuration

The server is configured (by default) by values in the server-config.wsdd file, 
though a dedicated Axis user can write their own configuration handler, and so 
store configuration data in an LDAP server, database, remote web service, etc. 
Consult the source on details as to how to do that. You can also add options to 
the web.xml file and have them picked up automatically. We don't encourage that 
as it is nice to keep configuration stuff in one place.

In the server-config file, there is a global configuration section, which 
supports parameter name/value pairs as nested elements. Here are the options 
that we currently document, though there may be more (consult the source, as 
usual).


  
  
  
  
  
  
  
  



>Hi we've been working on this and I get to post.

>Mackenzie

>Sigh. I'm having a problem returning an array from a webservice. It works
>when the array is only 1 dimension. When the array 

>has 2 dimensions it does not work. I'm thinking that 2D arrays are
>supported...

>CF version is 6,1,0,83762 on Windows 2000.

>The error returned is:

>Could not perform web service invocation "echoArray" because
>java.lang.NullPointerException

>The caller code in remotetest.cfm is:

>
>  webservice ="#sServiceHost#/test.cfc?wsdl"
>
>  method ="echoArray"
>
>  returnVariable="foo">
>
>

>The component code is :
>
>
>
>"remote">
>
> 
>
>
>
>  
>
> 
>
>  
>
>  
>
>  
>
>  
>
> 
>
>  
>
>  
>
>  
>
>  
>
>
>
>  

>  
>
>  
>
>  
>
>  

>

>

>

>

>Thanks 

>Mackenzie Cosens

~|
Logware (www.logware.us): a new and convenient web-based time tracking 
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RE: Client/Session Variable: When to set?

[Matthew Walker]

By "Application page" do you mean Application.cfm? If you do, then the
search engine bot is never going to know where the session/client
variables are being set.

In general, you probably want to allow bots to spider the pages of your
shop, but surely client and session variables are irrelevant for viewing
pages of your shop catalogue? 

-Original Message-
From: Nomad [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] 
Sent: Friday, 28 October 2005 11:31 a.m.
To: CF-Talk
Subject: Client/Session Variable: When to set?

Hello!

Need to clear this up once and for all
When is the best time to set session/client  variables..(Application
page or Cart page for an online shop) and why?
My understanding is that sites that set session/client variables in
Application page have poor search engine ranking.

~|
Logware (www.logware.us): a new and convenient web-based time tracking 
application. Start tracking and documenting hours spent on a project or with a 
client with Logware today. Try it for free with a 15 day trial account.
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RE: Inline frames a good alternative for creating web applications?

[Calvin Ward]

I mean employability in a more broad sense than being an employee.

If you prefer, replace employability with marketability... :) 

-Original Message-
From: Rick Faircloth [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] 
Sent: Thursday, October 27, 2005 5:23 PM
To: CF-Talk
Subject: RE: Inline frames a good alternative for creating web applications?

Not interested in employability as in "being an employee"...
I'm self-employed and plan to stay that way...can never be fired.
Does have its drawbacks, but for me it's the only way to go.

Rick


> -Original Message-
> From: Calvin Ward [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]
> Sent: Thursday, October 27, 2005 5:03 PM
> To: CF-Talk
> Subject: RE: Inline frames a good alternative for creating web 
> applications?
> 
> 
> Additionally, learning Javascript when in a web appllication world, 
> can only improve your capabilities and employablity
> 
> -Original Message-
> From: Matthew Small [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]
> Sent: Thursday, October 27, 2005 3:56 PM
> To: CF-Talk
> Subject: RE: Inline frames a good alternative for creating web 
> applications?
> 
> Seems like you're doing more work trying to avoid work.
> 
> - Matt Small
> 
> -Original Message-
> From: Rick Faircloth [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]
> Sent: Thursday, October 27, 2005 3:50 PM
> To: CF-Talk
> Subject: RE: Inline frames a good alternative for creating web 
> applications?
> 
> Thanks for the insights, Barney...
> 
> Question:  Can an inline frame be setup to trigger another iframe when 
> some action is performed that triggers it?
> 
> Not clear, I know...so...a scenario...
> 
> Three iframes on a page...click on a link in first frame, second frame 
> responds, and causes third frame to respondlike a chain reaction.  
> If so, would this substitute for concurrency?
> 
> Rick
> 
> 
> 
> > -Original Message-
> > From: Barney Boisvert [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]
> > Sent: Thursday, October 27, 2005 3:38 PM
> > To: CF-Talk
> > Subject: Re: Inline frames a good alternative for creating web 
> > applications?
> >
> >
> > The biggest problem with using frames is concurrency.  You can't do 
> > more than one thing at a time (unless you have two frames, then it's 
> > two things at a time), which can be very troubling.  With Flash and 
> > JS remoting you can perform multiple concurrent actions, which is 
> > very useful.  You also get the capability to pass complex data 
> > fairly easily, and move a lot of your UI logic to the client-side, 
> > which results in a far better user experience.
> >
> > And don't think you can use inline frames without JS.  When the 
> > frame loads, you have to parse out the content that you need, and 
> > then rebuild the visible document with that new content.
> >
> > cheers,
> > barneyb
> >
> > On 10/27/05, Rick Faircloth <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> > > Hi, all...
> > >
> > > I've been interested in building web applications that don't 
> > > require a page refresh for a few years now.  First Iooked at 
> > > Flash...didn't like it a few versions ago...and still don't.  
> > > Don't want to work with the Flash GUI or learn ActionScript.
> > >
> > > Now, along comes AJAX...everyone's excited.  But upon further 
> > > examination, to use it I've got to learn Javascript and other
> > technologies
> > > about which I know virtually nothing.  (And no...I don't have a 
> > > market at this time that would justify the effort)
> > >
> > > My question is this...why not just use inline frames (as someone 
> > > mentioned recently as their method for building applications)
> > to simulate
> > > "non-page refreshing" apps?
> > >
> > > I've used them a little, but not a lot, so I'd like some feedback 
> > > on what the drawbacks are to building apps using inline frames...I
> > can stick
> > > to Cold Fusion and HTML alone...no Javascript, no 
> > > Actionscript...sounds good to me.
> > >
> > > Can anyone point me to some online examples of significant inline 
> > > frames usage to build apps?
> > >
> > > What am I missing?
> > >
> > > Thanks for any feedback and guidance...
> > >
> > > Rick
> > >
> > >
> >
> > --
> > Barney Boisvert
> > [EMAIL PROTECTED]
> > 360.319.6145
> > http://www.barneyb.com/
> >
> > Got Gmail? I have 100 invites.
> >
> > 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 



~|
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Client/Session Variable: When to set?

[Nomad]

Hello!

Need to clear this up once and for all
When is the best time to set session/client  variables..(Application page or
Cart page for an online shop) and why?
My understanding is that sites that set session/client variables in
Application page have poor search engine ranking.

Thanks in advance..

Ben


~|
Logware (www.logware.us): a new and convenient web-based time tracking 
application. Start tracking and documenting hours spent on a project or with a 
client with Logware today. Try it for free with a 15 day trial account.
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Problem in a Simple webservice: 1D array works 2D fails

[Mackenzie Cosens]

Hi we've been working on this and I get to post.

 

Mackenzie

 

Sigh. I'm having a problem returning an array from a webservice. It works
when the array is only 1 dimension. When the array 

 

has 2 dimensions it does not work. I'm thinking that 2D arrays are
supported...

 

CF version is 6,1,0,83762 on Windows 2000.

 

The error returned is:

 

Could not perform web service invocation "echoArray" because
java.lang.NullPointerException

 

Stack Trace

at cfremotetest2ecfm2052500108.runPage(D:\htdocs\remotetest.cfm:20) at 

 

cfremotetest2ecfm2052500108.runPage(D:\htdocs\remotetest.cfm:20) 

 

java.lang.NullPointerException

  at
coldfusion.xml.rpc.ServiceProxy.convertResult(ServiceProxy.java:342)

  at
coldfusion.xml.rpc.ServiceProxy.convertResult(ServiceProxy.java:339)

  at coldfusion.xml.rpc.ServiceProxy.invokeImpl(ServiceProxy.java:212)

  at coldfusion.xml.rpc.ServiceProxy.invoke(ServiceProxy.java:132)

  at coldfusion.runtime.CfJspPage._invoke(CfJspPage.java:1587)

  at coldfusion.tagext.lang.InvokeTag.doEndTag(InvokeTag.java:372)

  at cfremotetest2ecfm2052500108.runPage(D:\htdocs\remotetest.cfm:20)

  at coldfusion.runtime.CfJspPage.invoke(CfJspPage.java:147)

  at coldfusion.tagext.lang.IncludeTag.doStartTag(IncludeTag.java:357)

  at coldfusion.filter.CfincludeFilter.invoke(CfincludeFilter.java:62)

  at
coldfusion.filter.ApplicationFilter.invoke(ApplicationFilter.java:107)

  at
coldfusion.filter.RequestMonitorFilter.invoke(RequestMonitorFilter.java:48)

  at coldfusion.filter.PathFilter.invoke(PathFilter.java:80)

  at coldfusion.filter.ExceptionFilter.invoke(ExceptionFilter.java:47)

  at
coldfusion.filter.BrowserDebugFilter.invoke(BrowserDebugFilter.java:52)

  at
coldfusion.filter.ClientScopePersistenceFilter.invoke(ClientScopePersistence
Filter.java:28)

  at coldfusion.filter.BrowserFilter.invoke(BrowserFilter.java:35)

  at coldfusion.filter.GlobalsFilter.invoke(GlobalsFilter.java:43)

  at coldfusion.filter.DatasourceFilter.invoke(DatasourceFilter.java:22)

  at coldfusion.CfmServlet.service(CfmServlet.java:105)

  at jrun.servlet.ServletInvoker.invoke(ServletInvoker.java:91)

  at jrun.servlet.JRunInvokerChain.invokeNext(JRunInvokerChain.java:42)

  at
jrun.servlet.JRunRequestDispatcher.invoke(JRunRequestDispatcher.java:249)

  at
jrun.servlet.ServletEngineService.dispatch(ServletEngineService.java:527)

  at
jrun.servlet.jrpp.JRunProxyService.invokeRunnable(JRunProxyService.java:192)

  at
jrunx.scheduler.ThreadPool$DownstreamMetrics.invokeRunnable(ThreadPool.java:
348)

  at
jrunx.scheduler.ThreadPool$ThreadThrottle.invokeRunnable(ThreadPool.java:451
)

  at
jrunx.scheduler.ThreadPool$UpstreamMetrics.invokeRunnable(ThreadPool.java:29
4)

  at jrunx.scheduler.WorkerThread.run(WorkerThread.java:66)

 

 

The caller code in remotetest.cfm is:

 





 

The component code is :

 





 



  

 

  

  

  

  

 

  

  

  

  



  

 

  

  

  

  

 

  



 



 



 



 

Thanks 

 

Mackenzie Cosens

 

 




~|
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RE: Inline frames a good alternative for creating web applications?

[Matthew Walker]

Some examples of using hidden iframes here. You might find some JS you
can adapt to your purposes. 
http://www.eswsoftware.com/products/srs/

> That's mostly what I've been considering lately...working out
solutions
> that involve things that are more easily employed...even if that
solution
> is not quite as effective or "elegant" as AS, JS, and AJAX solutions.

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RE: Inline frames a good alternative for creating web applications?

[Michael T. Tangorre]

> From: Rick Faircloth [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] 
> That's mostly what I've been considering lately...working out 
> solutions that involve things that are more easily 
> employed...even if that solution is not quite as effective or 
> "elegant" as AS, JS, and AJAX solutions.

Well, you will need to learn some JS to play games with the div tags. For
instance, clicking on a button or changing a select box item doesn't
hide/show a div automatically Your resistance to learning various other
technologies (JS, AS, AJAX, etc) won't get you very far beyond basic CF and
HTML, which might work for you but for how long?





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Re: Inline frames a good alternative for creating web applications?

[Claude Schneegans]

 >>Now, along comes AJAX...everyone's excited.  But upon further
examination, to use it I've got to learn Javascript and other technologies
about which I know virtually nothing.

If you don't want to learn and use Javascript, you cannot go very far in 
Web development anyway.

-- 
___
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Thanks.


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RE: Inline frames a good alternative for creating web applications?

[Rick Faircloth]

> My first AJAX interaction (which was very simple) took me about 15 minutes
> to complete from googling the term to implementation.

But how long would it take you with little or no JS experience...

> My first AJAX interaction

Got that in tutorial form?

Rick


> -Original Message-
> From: Calvin Ward [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]
> Sent: Thursday, October 27, 2005 5:16 PM
> To: CF-Talk
> Subject: RE: Inline frames a good alternative for creating web
> applications?
>
>
> My first AJAX interaction (which was very simple) took me about 15 minutes
> to complete from googling the term to implementation.
>
> Granted I already have exposure to Javascript, but it is worth it.
>
> - Calvin
>
> -Original Message-
> From: Rick Faircloth [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]
> Sent: Thursday, October 27, 2005 4:50 PM
> To: CF-Talk
> Subject: RE: Inline frames a good alternative for creating web
> applications?
>
> > Apologies for getting all philisophical and preachy, but such is life.
>
> No...you're absolutely right.  I know that AS, JS, and AJAX are outside my
> "domain", experience, and comfort zone.
>
> I come at this not from a programmer for a corporation, where my job may
> depend on knowing some of this stuff.  The sites I build are dynamic using
> CF, but no other languages.  I'm a one-man shop with relatively small-time
> clients who don't even know what a "dynamic site"
> is until I introduce it to them.
>
> Being an independent designer/programmer (CF), without a salary, I have to
> work project to project for income and none of my clients are asking for
> Rich Client apps...but some are asking for office apps to use in-house to
> replace software.  I'm always looking for better ways to do that, but at a
> reasonable cost / effort perspective.  They have no demands for Rich
> Clients, but I often sell solutions I develop before clients know
> they need
> them.  But some solutions are just too costly to work on.  (Time mainly,
> which translates to income)
>
> The question I'm asking myself is would something like inline
> frames suffice
> for now, since they're easily implemented?  I'm doing the same
> sort of thing
> with CFINCLUDEs for tables, etc., instead making clients go to
> another page
> to fill out a form, I just CFINCLUDE the form on the page when they click
> the "Add Account" link.  Looks to me like the only thing refreshed is the
> DIV I'd placed the table in.  (Just been playing around with DIV's as
> containers)
>
> Rick
>
>
> > -Original Message-
> > From: Barney Boisvert [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]
> > Sent: Thursday, October 27, 2005 4:30 PM
> > To: CF-Talk
> > Subject: Re: Inline frames a good alternative for creating web
> > applications?
> >
> >
> > Well, JS remoting capabilities have been around since the late
> > ninties, so it's hardly new technology.  I'm not sure why there's been
> > a sudden upsurge in interest, because it's certainly not a new
> > concept, and has been used all over the place for many years.  I think
> > the word AJAX has some subconcious appeal to people, because that's
> > all it is: a buzzword.  There is no such thing as AJAX technology, no
> > versions of it, nothing.
> >
> > I'll certainly agree that IFRAMEs are easier to understand than JS
> > remoting, but then, a steak knife is easier to understand than a
> > compound miter saw as well.  You could frame a house with either one,
> > but, well, you see where I'm going.  ;)
> >
> > Part of being a good developer is being familiar with enough tools to
> > pick the right one for a job, and also to appreciate that some jobs
> > fall outside your domain experience, and you'll either have to expand
> > your domain, or turn down the job.  It's a hard fact of life (no one
> > likes to say "yeah, um, I don't know how to do that"), but it is a
> > fact.  And the more varied your knowledge, the less it'll happen.
> >
> > Apologies for getting all philisophical and preachy, but such is life.
> >
> > cheers,
> > barneyb
> >
>
>
>
>
>
> 

~|
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RE: Inline frames a good alternative for creating web applications?

[Rick Faircloth]

> you can also use simple cfm
> like show or hide div's or tables based on conditions

That's mostly what I've been considering lately...working
out solutions that involve things that are more easily
employed...even if that solution is not quite as effective
or "elegant" as AS, JS, and AJAX solutions.

Rick


> -Original Message-
> From: dave [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]
> Sent: Thursday, October 27, 2005 5:11 PM
> To: CF-Talk
> Subject: RE: Inline frames a good alternative for creating web
> applications?
> 
> 
> trust me u dont wanna know about his black hole!
> 
> you can also use simple cfm
> like show or hide div's or tables based on conditions ;)~
> 
> ~Dave the disruptor~
> "Some people just don't appreciate how difficult it is to 
> dispense wisdom and abuse at the same time." 
> 
> 
> From: "Rick Faircloth" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
> Sent: Thursday, October 27, 2005 4:41 PM
> To: CF-Talk 
> Subject: RE: Inline frames a good alternative for creating web 
> applications? 
> 
> > with my situation it was like going into a black hole.
> > Once you go in, you can't come out.
> 
> Care to elaborate?
> 
> Rick
> 
> > -Original Message-
> > From: Will Tomlinson [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]
> > Sent: Thursday, October 27, 2005 4:26 PM
> > To: CF-Talk
> > Subject: Re: Inline frames a good alternative for creating web
> > applications?
> > 
> > 
> > I used IFrames in a site and it worked great, but with my 
> > situation it was like going into a black hole. Once you go in, 
> > you can't come out. 
> > 
> > Will
> > 
> > 
> 
> 
> 
> 

~|
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RE: Inline frames a good alternative for creating web applications?

[Rick Faircloth]

Not interested in employability as in "being an employee"...
I'm self-employed and plan to stay that way...can never be fired.
Does have its drawbacks, but for me it's the only way to go.

Rick


> -Original Message-
> From: Calvin Ward [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]
> Sent: Thursday, October 27, 2005 5:03 PM
> To: CF-Talk
> Subject: RE: Inline frames a good alternative for creating web
> applications?
> 
> 
> Additionally, learning Javascript when in a web appllication 
> world, can only
> improve your capabilities and employablity 
> 
> -Original Message-
> From: Matthew Small [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] 
> Sent: Thursday, October 27, 2005 3:56 PM
> To: CF-Talk
> Subject: RE: Inline frames a good alternative for creating web 
> applications?
> 
> Seems like you're doing more work trying to avoid work.
> 
> - Matt Small
> 
> -Original Message-
> From: Rick Faircloth [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]
> Sent: Thursday, October 27, 2005 3:50 PM
> To: CF-Talk
> Subject: RE: Inline frames a good alternative for creating web 
> applications?
> 
> Thanks for the insights, Barney...
> 
> Question:  Can an inline frame be setup to trigger another iframe 
> when some
> action is performed that triggers it?
> 
> Not clear, I know...so...a scenario...
> 
> Three iframes on a page...click on a link in first frame, second frame
> responds, and causes third frame to respondlike a chain reaction.  If
> so, would this substitute for concurrency?
> 
> Rick
> 
> 
> 
> > -Original Message-
> > From: Barney Boisvert [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]
> > Sent: Thursday, October 27, 2005 3:38 PM
> > To: CF-Talk
> > Subject: Re: Inline frames a good alternative for creating web 
> > applications?
> >
> >
> > The biggest problem with using frames is concurrency.  You can't do 
> > more than one thing at a time (unless you have two frames, then it's 
> > two things at a time), which can be very troubling.  With Flash and JS 
> > remoting you can perform multiple concurrent actions, which is very 
> > useful.  You also get the capability to pass complex data fairly 
> > easily, and move a lot of your UI logic to the client-side, which 
> > results in a far better user experience.
> >
> > And don't think you can use inline frames without JS.  When the frame 
> > loads, you have to parse out the content that you need, and then 
> > rebuild the visible document with that new content.
> >
> > cheers,
> > barneyb
> >
> > On 10/27/05, Rick Faircloth <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> > > Hi, all...
> > >
> > > I've been interested in building web applications that don't require 
> > > a page refresh for a few years now.  First Iooked at Flash...didn't 
> > > like it a few versions ago...and still don't.  Don't want to work 
> > > with the Flash GUI or learn ActionScript.
> > >
> > > Now, along comes AJAX...everyone's excited.  But upon further 
> > > examination, to use it I've got to learn Javascript and other
> > technologies
> > > about which I know virtually nothing.  (And no...I don't have a 
> > > market at this time that would justify the effort)
> > >
> > > My question is this...why not just use inline frames (as someone 
> > > mentioned recently as their method for building applications)
> > to simulate
> > > "non-page refreshing" apps?
> > >
> > > I've used them a little, but not a lot, so I'd like some feedback on 
> > > what the drawbacks are to building apps using inline frames...I
> > can stick
> > > to Cold Fusion and HTML alone...no Javascript, no 
> > > Actionscript...sounds good to me.
> > >
> > > Can anyone point me to some online examples of significant inline 
> > > frames usage to build apps?
> > >
> > > What am I missing?
> > >
> > > Thanks for any feedback and guidance...
> > >
> > > Rick
> > >
> > >
> >
> > --
> > Barney Boisvert
> > [EMAIL PROTECTED]
> > 360.319.6145
> > http://www.barneyb.com/
> >
> > Got Gmail? I have 100 invites.
> >
> > 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 

~|
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RE: Inline frames a good alternative for creating web applications?

[Calvin Ward]

My first AJAX interaction (which was very simple) took me about 15 minutes
to complete from googling the term to implementation.

Granted I already have exposure to Javascript, but it is worth it.

- Calvin 

-Original Message-
From: Rick Faircloth [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] 
Sent: Thursday, October 27, 2005 4:50 PM
To: CF-Talk
Subject: RE: Inline frames a good alternative for creating web applications?

> Apologies for getting all philisophical and preachy, but such is life.

No...you're absolutely right.  I know that AS, JS, and AJAX are outside my
"domain", experience, and comfort zone.

I come at this not from a programmer for a corporation, where my job may
depend on knowing some of this stuff.  The sites I build are dynamic using
CF, but no other languages.  I'm a one-man shop with relatively small-time
clients who don't even know what a "dynamic site"
is until I introduce it to them.

Being an independent designer/programmer (CF), without a salary, I have to
work project to project for income and none of my clients are asking for
Rich Client apps...but some are asking for office apps to use in-house to
replace software.  I'm always looking for better ways to do that, but at a
reasonable cost / effort perspective.  They have no demands for Rich
Clients, but I often sell solutions I develop before clients know they need
them.  But some solutions are just too costly to work on.  (Time mainly,
which translates to income)

The question I'm asking myself is would something like inline frames suffice
for now, since they're easily implemented?  I'm doing the same sort of thing
with CFINCLUDEs for tables, etc., instead making clients go to another page
to fill out a form, I just CFINCLUDE the form on the page when they click
the "Add Account" link.  Looks to me like the only thing refreshed is the
DIV I'd placed the table in.  (Just been playing around with DIV's as
containers)

Rick


> -Original Message-
> From: Barney Boisvert [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]
> Sent: Thursday, October 27, 2005 4:30 PM
> To: CF-Talk
> Subject: Re: Inline frames a good alternative for creating web 
> applications?
>
>
> Well, JS remoting capabilities have been around since the late 
> ninties, so it's hardly new technology.  I'm not sure why there's been 
> a sudden upsurge in interest, because it's certainly not a new 
> concept, and has been used all over the place for many years.  I think 
> the word AJAX has some subconcious appeal to people, because that's 
> all it is: a buzzword.  There is no such thing as AJAX technology, no 
> versions of it, nothing.
>
> I'll certainly agree that IFRAMEs are easier to understand than JS 
> remoting, but then, a steak knife is easier to understand than a 
> compound miter saw as well.  You could frame a house with either one, 
> but, well, you see where I'm going.  ;)
>
> Part of being a good developer is being familiar with enough tools to 
> pick the right one for a job, and also to appreciate that some jobs 
> fall outside your domain experience, and you'll either have to expand 
> your domain, or turn down the job.  It's a hard fact of life (no one 
> likes to say "yeah, um, I don't know how to do that"), but it is a 
> fact.  And the more varied your knowledge, the less it'll happen.
>
> Apologies for getting all philisophical and preachy, but such is life.
>
> cheers,
> barneyb
>





~|
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client with Logware today. Try it for free with a 15 day trial account.
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RE: Inline frames a good alternative for creating web applications?

[dave]

trust me u dont wanna know about his black hole!

you can also use simple cfm
like show or hide div's or tables based on conditions ;)~

~Dave the disruptor~
"Some people just don't appreciate how difficult it is to dispense wisdom and 
abuse at the same time." 


From: "Rick Faircloth" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Sent: Thursday, October 27, 2005 4:41 PM
To: CF-Talk 
Subject: RE: Inline frames a good alternative for creating web applications? 

> with my situation it was like going into a black hole.
> Once you go in, you can't come out.

Care to elaborate?

Rick

> -Original Message-
> From: Will Tomlinson [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]
> Sent: Thursday, October 27, 2005 4:26 PM
> To: CF-Talk
> Subject: Re: Inline frames a good alternative for creating web
> applications?
> 
> 
> I used IFrames in a site and it worked great, but with my 
> situation it was like going into a black hole. Once you go in, 
> you can't come out. 
> 
> Will
> 
> 



~|
Logware (www.logware.us): a new and convenient web-based time tracking 
application. Start tracking and documenting hours spent on a project or with a 
client with Logware today. Try it for free with a 15 day trial account.
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RE: Inline frames a good alternative for creating web applications?

[Calvin Ward]

Additionally, learning Javascript when in a web appllication world, can only
improve your capabilities and employablity 

-Original Message-
From: Matthew Small [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] 
Sent: Thursday, October 27, 2005 3:56 PM
To: CF-Talk
Subject: RE: Inline frames a good alternative for creating web applications?

Seems like you're doing more work trying to avoid work.

- Matt Small

-Original Message-
From: Rick Faircloth [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]
Sent: Thursday, October 27, 2005 3:50 PM
To: CF-Talk
Subject: RE: Inline frames a good alternative for creating web applications?

Thanks for the insights, Barney...

Question:  Can an inline frame be setup to trigger another iframe when some
action is performed that triggers it?

Not clear, I know...so...a scenario...

Three iframes on a page...click on a link in first frame, second frame
responds, and causes third frame to respondlike a chain reaction.  If
so, would this substitute for concurrency?

Rick



> -Original Message-
> From: Barney Boisvert [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]
> Sent: Thursday, October 27, 2005 3:38 PM
> To: CF-Talk
> Subject: Re: Inline frames a good alternative for creating web 
> applications?
>
>
> The biggest problem with using frames is concurrency.  You can't do 
> more than one thing at a time (unless you have two frames, then it's 
> two things at a time), which can be very troubling.  With Flash and JS 
> remoting you can perform multiple concurrent actions, which is very 
> useful.  You also get the capability to pass complex data fairly 
> easily, and move a lot of your UI logic to the client-side, which 
> results in a far better user experience.
>
> And don't think you can use inline frames without JS.  When the frame 
> loads, you have to parse out the content that you need, and then 
> rebuild the visible document with that new content.
>
> cheers,
> barneyb
>
> On 10/27/05, Rick Faircloth <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> > Hi, all...
> >
> > I've been interested in building web applications that don't require 
> > a page refresh for a few years now.  First Iooked at Flash...didn't 
> > like it a few versions ago...and still don't.  Don't want to work 
> > with the Flash GUI or learn ActionScript.
> >
> > Now, along comes AJAX...everyone's excited.  But upon further 
> > examination, to use it I've got to learn Javascript and other
> technologies
> > about which I know virtually nothing.  (And no...I don't have a 
> > market at this time that would justify the effort)
> >
> > My question is this...why not just use inline frames (as someone 
> > mentioned recently as their method for building applications)
> to simulate
> > "non-page refreshing" apps?
> >
> > I've used them a little, but not a lot, so I'd like some feedback on 
> > what the drawbacks are to building apps using inline frames...I
> can stick
> > to Cold Fusion and HTML alone...no Javascript, no 
> > Actionscript...sounds good to me.
> >
> > Can anyone point me to some online examples of significant inline 
> > frames usage to build apps?
> >
> > What am I missing?
> >
> > Thanks for any feedback and guidance...
> >
> > Rick
> >
> >
>
> --
> Barney Boisvert
> [EMAIL PROTECTED]
> 360.319.6145
> http://www.barneyb.com/
>
> Got Gmail? I have 100 invites.
>
> 





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RE: Inline frames a good alternative for creating web applications?

[Munson, Jacob]

http://labs.macromedia.com/technologies/flexbuilder2/ 

> -Original Message-
> From: Barney Boisvert [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] 
> Sent: Thursday, October 27, 2005 2:58 PM
> To: CF-Talk
> Subject: Re: Inline frames a good alternative for creating 
> web applications?
> 
> Flex 2.  Don't have a URL, but should be easy to find on MM's site.
> 
> cheers,
> barneyb
> 
> On 10/27/05, Rick Faircloth <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> > Haven't heard of "Zorn"...got a URL?
> >
> > Rick

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Re: Inline frames a good alternative for creating web applications?

[Barney Boisvert]

Flex 2.  Don't have a URL, but should be easy to find on MM's site.

cheers,
barneyb

On 10/27/05, Rick Faircloth <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> Haven't heard of "Zorn"...got a URL?
>
> Rick
>
>
--
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[EMAIL PROTECTED]
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RE: Inline frames a good alternative for creating web applications?

[Rick Faircloth]

Haven't heard of "Zorn"...got a URL?

Rick


> -Original Message-
> From: Barney Boisvert [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]
> Sent: Thursday, October 27, 2005 4:35 PM
> To: CF-Talk
> Subject: Re: Inline frames a good alternative for creating web
> applications?
> 
> 
> Developers using Flash should basically have a one-frame movie with AS
> in that frame that stops playback and loads their main AS file from
> disk.  That's it.
> 
> Your designers can build you libraries of symbols and then you
> dynamically link them in to use them.  So it's really very similar to
> non-Flash development.  You have your code, it does "stuff" and
> renders a UI using designer specified elements (clips, graphics, etc.
> in Flash, images, css, html in CF).
> 
> Best of all, you don't have to use that hellishly horrendous Flash
> IDE, which sucks.  Though with the advent of Zorn, things might all
> change (for the better).
> 
> cheers,
> barneyb
> 
> On 10/27/05, Matthew Small <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> > I don't know your programming experience, but if you're a traditional
> > programmer, Javascript is far easier to learn than Flash.  I've 
> also done
> > Flash, it's not intuitive for people who think linearly like myself.
> >
> > Flash deals with timelines, Javascript is procedural/OO/not 
> Timeline.  It's
> > a terrific skill to know, it can be incredibly fun to integrate 
> your CF into
> > as well.  I would recommend you learn it just for fun if 
> nothing else.  I
> > think it's easier than you are worried about and you get to 
> work with AJAX
> > if that's your goal.
> >
> > - Matt Smalll
> >
> --
> Barney Boisvert
> [EMAIL PROTECTED]
> 360.319.6145
> http://www.barneyb.com/
> 
> Got Gmail? I have 100 invites.
> 
> 

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RE: Inline frames a good alternative for creating web applications?

[Rick Faircloth]

> Apologies for getting all philisophical and preachy, but such is life.

No...you're absolutely right.  I know that AS, JS, and AJAX are outside
my "domain", experience, and comfort zone.

I come at this not from a programmer for a corporation, where my job
may depend on knowing some of this stuff.  The sites I build are
dynamic using CF, but no other languages.  I'm a one-man shop with
relatively small-time clients who don't even know what a "dynamic site"
is until I introduce it to them.

Being an independent designer/programmer (CF), without a salary,
I have to work project to project for income and none of my clients are
asking for Rich Client apps...but some are asking for office apps to use
in-house to replace software.  I'm always looking for better ways to do
that,
but at a reasonable cost / effort perspective.  They have no demands for
Rich Clients, but I often sell solutions I develop before clients know they
need them.  But some solutions are just too costly to work on.  (Time
mainly,
which translates to income)

The question I'm asking myself is would something like inline frames suffice
for now, since they're easily implemented?  I'm doing the same sort of thing
with CFINCLUDEs for tables, etc., instead making clients go to another page
to fill out a form, I just CFINCLUDE the form on the page when they click
the "Add Account" link.  Looks to me like the only thing refreshed is the
DIV
I'd placed the table in.  (Just been playing around with DIV's as
containers)

Rick


> -Original Message-
> From: Barney Boisvert [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]
> Sent: Thursday, October 27, 2005 4:30 PM
> To: CF-Talk
> Subject: Re: Inline frames a good alternative for creating web
> applications?
>
>
> Well, JS remoting capabilities have been around since the late
> ninties, so it's hardly new technology.  I'm not sure why there's been
> a sudden upsurge in interest, because it's certainly not a new
> concept, and has been used all over the place for many years.  I think
> the word AJAX has some subconcious appeal to people, because that's
> all it is: a buzzword.  There is no such thing as AJAX technology, no
> versions of it, nothing.
>
> I'll certainly agree that IFRAMEs are easier to understand than JS
> remoting, but then, a steak knife is easier to understand than a
> compound miter saw as well.  You could frame a house with either one,
> but, well, you see where I'm going.  ;)
>
> Part of being a good developer is being familiar with enough tools to
> pick the right one for a job, and also to appreciate that some jobs
> fall outside your domain experience, and you'll either have to expand
> your domain, or turn down the job.  It's a hard fact of life (no one
> likes to say "yeah, um, I don't know how to do that"), but it is a
> fact.  And the more varied your knowledge, the less it'll happen.
>
> Apologies for getting all philisophical and preachy, but such is life.
>
> cheers,
> barneyb
>



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RE: Inline frames a good alternative for creating web applications?

[Rick Faircloth]

> with my situation it was like going into a black hole.
> Once you go in, you can't come out.

Care to elaborate?

Rick


> -Original Message-
> From: Will Tomlinson [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]
> Sent: Thursday, October 27, 2005 4:26 PM
> To: CF-Talk
> Subject: Re: Inline frames a good alternative for creating web
> applications?
> 
> 
> I used IFrames in a site and it worked great, but with my 
> situation it was like going into a black hole. Once you go in, 
> you can't come out. 
> 
> Will
> 
> 

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Re: Inline frames a good alternative for creating web applications?

[Barney Boisvert]

The biggest reason is concurrency, but with JS remoting you can also
leverage a lot of libraries to make your job easier.  Like transparent
SOAP packaging for hitting web services, for example.

In a client-side UI, your interface almost has to be event driven, or
it'll be really cumbersome.  That necessitates good concurency in your
controller, which means that you need to be able to do multiple
(unrelated) things at a time.  Synchronous requests are also a very
beneficial thing to have for certain actions where you want the user
to have to wait to do the next thing, and are impossible with IFRAMEs.

cheers,
barneyb

On 10/27/05, John Dowdell <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> Rick Faircloth wrote:
> > I've used them a little, but not a lot, so I'd like some feedback on
> > what the drawbacks are to building apps using inline frames...
>
> In all the AJaX discussion I've seen a lot of "i did that years ago with
> frames", but I don't recall anyone coming back with reasons how the MS
> XmlHttpRequest is better.
>
> Refresh the hidden frame, then use JavaScript to pass the data to the
> main display... seems to work just as well, from what I've seen, and
> browser support is a little better (older Moz, etc).
>
> There are examples online, but I haven't tested which search terms give
> the most useful hits.
>
> jd
>

--
Barney Boisvert
[EMAIL PROTECTED]
360.319.6145
http://www.barneyb.com/

Got Gmail? I have 100 invites.

~|
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RE: Inline frames a good alternative for creating web applications?

[Rick Faircloth]

>Refresh the hidden frame, then use JavaScript to pass the data to the 
>main display... seems to work just as well, from what I've seen, and 
>browser support is a little better (older Moz, etc).

Interesting...hadn't even thought about using the hidden frames...I was
just think about visible inline frames that appear as part of the page
to display data...

Rick


> -Original Message-
> From: John Dowdell [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]
> Sent: Thursday, October 27, 2005 4:24 PM
> To: CF-Talk
> Subject: Re: Inline frames a good alternative for creating web
> applications?
> 
> 
> Rick Faircloth wrote:
> > I've used them a little, but not a lot, so I'd like some feedback on
> > what the drawbacks are to building apps using inline frames...
> 
> In all the AJaX discussion I've seen a lot of "i did that years ago with 
> frames", but I don't recall anyone coming back with reasons how the MS 
> XmlHttpRequest is better.
> 
> Refresh the hidden frame, then use JavaScript to pass the data to the 
> main display... seems to work just as well, from what I've seen, and 
> browser support is a little better (older Moz, etc).
> 
> There are examples online, but I haven't tested which search terms give 
> the most useful hits.
> 
> jd



~|
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Re: Inline frames a good alternative for creating web applications?

[Barney Boisvert]

Developers using Flash should basically have a one-frame movie with AS
in that frame that stops playback and loads their main AS file from
disk.  That's it.

Your designers can build you libraries of symbols and then you
dynamically link them in to use them.  So it's really very similar to
non-Flash development.  You have your code, it does "stuff" and
renders a UI using designer specified elements (clips, graphics, etc.
in Flash, images, css, html in CF).

Best of all, you don't have to use that hellishly horrendous Flash
IDE, which sucks.  Though with the advent of Zorn, things might all
change (for the better).

cheers,
barneyb

On 10/27/05, Matthew Small <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> I don't know your programming experience, but if you're a traditional
> programmer, Javascript is far easier to learn than Flash.  I've also done
> Flash, it's not intuitive for people who think linearly like myself.
>
> Flash deals with timelines, Javascript is procedural/OO/not Timeline.  It's
> a terrific skill to know, it can be incredibly fun to integrate your CF into
> as well.  I would recommend you learn it just for fun if nothing else.  I
> think it's easier than you are worried about and you get to work with AJAX
> if that's your goal.
>
> - Matt Smalll
>
--
Barney Boisvert
[EMAIL PROTECTED]
360.319.6145
http://www.barneyb.com/

Got Gmail? I have 100 invites.

~|
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Re: Inline frames a good alternative for creating web applications?

[Barney Boisvert]

Well, JS remoting capabilities have been around since the late
ninties, so it's hardly new technology.  I'm not sure why there's been
a sudden upsurge in interest, because it's certainly not a new
concept, and has been used all over the place for many years.  I think
the word AJAX has some subconcious appeal to people, because that's
all it is: a buzzword.  There is no such thing as AJAX technology, no
versions of it, nothing.

I'll certainly agree that IFRAMEs are easier to understand than JS
remoting, but then, a steak knife is easier to understand than a
compound miter saw as well.  You could frame a house with either one,
but, well, you see where I'm going.  ;)

Part of being a good developer is being familiar with enough tools to
pick the right one for a job, and also to appreciate that some jobs
fall outside your domain experience, and you'll either have to expand
your domain, or turn down the job.  It's a hard fact of life (no one
likes to say "yeah, um, I don't know how to do that"), but it is a
fact.  And the more varied your knowledge, the less it'll happen.

Apologies for getting all philisophical and preachy, but such is life.

cheers,
barneyb

On 10/27/05, Rick Faircloth <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> Possibly...but that's definitely not true when it comes to Flash
> and Actionscript...I've tried working with Flash through the last
> 3 or 4 versions, including the latest, but I don't like working with
> the Flash timeline (and I'm familiar with timelines, because I do
> video editing every day with one, including animation)...Flash is
> just too much buck (work) for the bang...client's (at least mine)
> don't want to pay for that much work...besides, I don't like it anyway.
>
> Now about AJAX...I don't know...could be easier or not...but my
> research to this point tells me a lot harder...inline frames are easy
> to understand.
>
> I just don't think the tools are ready for Rich Client apps that I require
> for working with them...I want them to be easier...nothing wrong with that.
> Right now, it seems that Rich Clients and AJAX technology are still
> too much in their early stages for me.  They still look like they're trying
> to "frankenstein" technologies together that weren't originally meant to
> work that way.  Perhaps I need to wait until AJAX 4.0 comes out and
> by that time there will be AJAX tools available to make it easier...
>
> I may be missing the boat and my perspective may be totally skewed,
> so feel free to correct me...this is research time...
>
> Rick
>

--
Barney Boisvert
[EMAIL PROTECTED]
360.319.6145
http://www.barneyb.com/

Got Gmail? I have 100 invites.

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Re: Inline frames a good alternative for creating web applications?

[Will Tomlinson]

I used IFrames in a site and it worked great, but with my situation it was like 
going into a black hole. Once you go in, you can't come out. 

Will

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RE: Inline frames a good alternative for creating web applications?

[Matthew Small]

I don't know your programming experience, but if you're a traditional
programmer, Javascript is far easier to learn than Flash.  I've also done
Flash, it's not intuitive for people who think linearly like myself.

Flash deals with timelines, Javascript is procedural/OO/not Timeline.  It's
a terrific skill to know, it can be incredibly fun to integrate your CF into
as well.  I would recommend you learn it just for fun if nothing else.  I
think it's easier than you are worried about and you get to work with AJAX
if that's your goal.

- Matt Smalll

-Original Message-
From: Rick Faircloth [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] 
Sent: Thursday, October 27, 2005 4:18 PM
To: CF-Talk
Subject: RE: Inline frames a good alternative for creating web applications?

Possibly...but that's definitely not true when it comes to Flash
and Actionscript...I've tried working with Flash through the last
3 or 4 versions, including the latest, but I don't like working with
the Flash timeline (and I'm familiar with timelines, because I do
video editing every day with one, including animation)...Flash is
just too much buck (work) for the bang...client's (at least mine)
don't want to pay for that much work...besides, I don't like it anyway.

Now about AJAX...I don't know...could be easier or not...but my
research to this point tells me a lot harder...inline frames are easy
to understand.

I just don't think the tools are ready for Rich Client apps that I require
for working with them...I want them to be easier...nothing wrong with that.
Right now, it seems that Rich Clients and AJAX technology are still
too much in their early stages for me.  They still look like they're trying
to "frankenstein" technologies together that weren't originally meant to
work that way.  Perhaps I need to wait until AJAX 4.0 comes out and
by that time there will be AJAX tools available to make it easier...

I may be missing the boat and my perspective may be totally skewed,
so feel free to correct me...this is research time...

Rick


> -Original Message-
> From: Matthew Small [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]
> Sent: Thursday, October 27, 2005 3:56 PM
> To: CF-Talk
> Subject: RE: Inline frames a good alternative for creating web
> applications?
>
>
> Seems like you're doing more work trying to avoid work.
>
> - Matt Small
>
> -Original Message-
> From: Rick Faircloth [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]
> Sent: Thursday, October 27, 2005 3:50 PM
> To: CF-Talk
> Subject: RE: Inline frames a good alternative for creating web
> applications?
>
> Thanks for the insights, Barney...
>
> Question:  Can an inline frame be setup to trigger another
> iframe when some action is performed that triggers it?
>
> Not clear, I know...so...a scenario...
>
> Three iframes on a page...click on a link in first frame, second
> frame responds, and causes third frame to respondlike a chain
> reaction.  If so, would this substitute for concurrency?
>
> Rick
>
>
>
> > -Original Message-
> > From: Barney Boisvert [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]
> > Sent: Thursday, October 27, 2005 3:38 PM
> > To: CF-Talk
> > Subject: Re: Inline frames a good alternative for creating web
> > applications?
> >
> >
> > The biggest problem with using frames is concurrency.  You can't do
> > more than one thing at a time (unless you have two frames, then it's
> > two things at a time), which can be very troubling.  With Flash and JS
> > remoting you can perform multiple concurrent actions, which is very
> > useful.  You also get the capability to pass complex data fairly
> > easily, and move a lot of your UI logic to the client-side, which
> > results in a far better user experience.
> >
> > And don't think you can use inline frames without JS.  When the frame
> > loads, you have to parse out the content that you need, and then
> > rebuild the visible document with that new content.
> >
> > cheers,
> > barneyb
> >
> > On 10/27/05, Rick Faircloth <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> > > Hi, all...
> > >
> > > I've been interested in building web applications that don't require
> > > a page refresh for a few years now.  First Iooked at Flash...didn't
> > > like it a few versions ago...and still don't.  Don't want to work with
> > > the Flash GUI or learn ActionScript.
> > >
> > > Now, along comes AJAX...everyone's excited.  But upon further
> > > examination, to use it I've got to learn Javascript and other
> > technologies
> > > about which I know virtually nothing.  (And no...I don't have a market
> > > at this time that would justify the effort)
> > >
> > > My question is this...why not just use inline frames (as someone
> > > mentioned recently as their method for building applications)
> > to simulate
> > > "non-page refreshing" apps?
> > >
> > > I've used them a little, but not a lot, so I'd like some feedback on
> > > what the drawbacks are to building apps using inline frames...I
> > can stick
> > > to Cold Fusion and HTML alone...no Javascript, no
> Actionscript...sounds
> > > good to me.
> > >
> > > Can

Re: Inline frames a good alternative for creating web applications?

[John Dowdell]

Rick Faircloth wrote:
> I've used them a little, but not a lot, so I'd like some feedback on
> what the drawbacks are to building apps using inline frames...

In all the AJaX discussion I've seen a lot of "i did that years ago with 
frames", but I don't recall anyone coming back with reasons how the MS 
XmlHttpRequest is better.

Refresh the hidden frame, then use JavaScript to pass the data to the 
main display... seems to work just as well, from what I've seen, and 
browser support is a little better (older Moz, etc).

There are examples online, but I haven't tested which search terms give 
the most useful hits.

jd




-- 
John Dowdell . Macromedia Developer Support . San Francisco CA USA
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RE: Inline frames a good alternative for creating web applications?

[Rick Faircloth]

Would it be as simple as commands such as "onload...do something" ???

Rick


> -Original Message-
> From: Andy Matthews [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]
> Sent: Thursday, October 27, 2005 4:14 PM
> To: CF-Talk
> Subject: RE: Inline frames a good alternative for creating web
> applications?
>
>
> This is possible. You can use javascript to trigger an action
> from one frame
> to another.
>
>  andy matthews
> web developer
> ICGLink, Inc.
> [EMAIL PROTECTED]
> 615.370.1530 x737
> --//->
>
> -Original Message-
> From: Rick Faircloth [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]
> Sent: Thursday, October 27, 2005 2:50 PM
> To: CF-Talk
> Subject: RE: Inline frames a good alternative for creating web
> applications?
>
>
> Thanks for the insights, Barney...
>
> Question:  Can an inline frame be setup to trigger another
> iframe when some action is performed that triggers it?
>
> Not clear, I know...so...a scenario...
>
> Three iframes on a page...click on a link in first frame, second
> frame responds, and causes third frame to respondlike a chain
> reaction.  If so, would this substitute for concurrency?
>
> Rick
>
>
>
> > -Original Message-
> > From: Barney Boisvert [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]
> > Sent: Thursday, October 27, 2005 3:38 PM
> > To: CF-Talk
> > Subject: Re: Inline frames a good alternative for creating web
> > applications?
> >
> >
> > The biggest problem with using frames is concurrency.  You can't do
> > more than one thing at a time (unless you have two frames, then it's
> > two things at a time), which can be very troubling.  With Flash and JS
> > remoting you can perform multiple concurrent actions, which is very
> > useful.  You also get the capability to pass complex data fairly
> > easily, and move a lot of your UI logic to the client-side, which
> > results in a far better user experience.
> >
> > And don't think you can use inline frames without JS.  When the frame
> > loads, you have to parse out the content that you need, and then
> > rebuild the visible document with that new content.
> >
> > cheers,
> > barneyb
> >
> > On 10/27/05, Rick Faircloth <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> > > Hi, all...
> > >
> > > I've been interested in building web applications that don't require
> > > a page refresh for a few years now.  First Iooked at Flash...didn't
> > > like it a few versions ago...and still don't.  Don't want to work with
> > > the Flash GUI or learn ActionScript.
> > >
> > > Now, along comes AJAX...everyone's excited.  But upon further
> > > examination, to use it I've got to learn Javascript and other
> > technologies
> > > about which I know virtually nothing.  (And no...I don't have a market
> > > at this time that would justify the effort)
> > >
> > > My question is this...why not just use inline frames (as someone
> > > mentioned recently as their method for building applications)
> > to simulate
> > > "non-page refreshing" apps?
> > >
> > > I've used them a little, but not a lot, so I'd like some feedback on
> > > what the drawbacks are to building apps using inline frames...I
> > can stick
> > > to Cold Fusion and HTML alone...no Javascript, no
> Actionscript...sounds
> > > good to me.
> > >
> > > Can anyone point me to some online examples of significant
> inline frames
> > > usage
> > > to build apps?
> > >
> > > What am I missing?
> > >
> > > Thanks for any feedback and guidance...
> > >
> > > Rick
> > >
> > >
> >
> > --
> > Barney Boisvert
> > [EMAIL PROTECTED]
> > 360.319.6145
> > http://www.barneyb.com/
> >
> > Got Gmail? I have 100 invites.
> >
> >
>
>
>
> 

~|
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RE: Inline frames a good alternative for creating web applications?

[Jim Davis]

> On 10/27/05, Rick Faircloth <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> > Hi, all...
> >
> > I've been interested in building web applications that don't require
> > a page refresh for a few years now.  First Iooked at Flash...didn't
> > like it a few versions ago...and still don't.  Don't want to work with
> > the Flash GUI or learn ActionScript.
> >
> > Now, along comes AJAX...everyone's excited.  But upon further
> > examination, to use it I've got to learn Javascript and other
> technologies
> > about which I know virtually nothing.  (And no...I don't have a market
> > at this time that would justify the effort)

Traditional wisdom is that you can't do a decent with frames without
JavaScript.

I would say with certainty that to do any sort of good web application
you'll really have to learn some client-side language.  That could be Flash,
JavaScript, VBScript or whatever - each has its trade offs and benefits.

But you need something on the client you can work with.

Remember too that Action Script and JavaScript are both, for the most part,
the same language - they just access different object models.  In many cases
JavaScript code can be used directly in Flash and vice versa.

Learning JavaScript will open the door to lots of other things.  Windows
Scripting Host is JavaScript based.  You can also use it in many application
scripts.

It's nifty.  ;^)

Jim Davis




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RE: Inline frames a good alternative for creating web applications?

[Rick Faircloth]

> your sanity (and your users' experience) will
> be better off if you just stick with standard page-refresh based CF.

You may very well be correct...I guess that's what I'm trying to decide.
Is this technology right for me to tackle, or should I wait a little longer
for it to mature and tools to catch up.

Rick


> -Original Message-
> From: Barney Boisvert [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]
> Sent: Thursday, October 27, 2005 4:07 PM
> To: CF-Talk
> Subject: Re: Inline frames a good alternative for creating web
> applications?
> 
> 
> I'm with Matt.  You don't need to hack your way around these problems
> with proper JS remoting, and I assure you that in the long run,
> picking up some JS will be a lot less effort, not to mention
> beneficial for myriad other applications.
> 
> I'm not one to generally praise the perfection of one
> language/solution or another, but in this case, hacking a solution is
> only going to piss you off in the long run.  If you don't want to
> learn JS or Flash/Flex, your sanity (and your users' experience) will
> be better off if you just stick with standard page-refresh based CF.
> 
> cheers,
> barneyb
> 
> On 10/27/05, Matthew Small <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> > Seems like you're doing more work trying to avoid work.
> >
> > - Matt Small
> >
> 
> --
> Barney Boisvert
> [EMAIL PROTECTED]
> 360.319.6145
> http://www.barneyb.com/
> 
> Got Gmail? I have 100 invites.
> 
> 

~|
Logware (www.logware.us): a new and convenient web-based time tracking 
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RE: Inline frames a good alternative for creating web applications?

[Rick Faircloth]

Possibly...but that's definitely not true when it comes to Flash
and Actionscript...I've tried working with Flash through the last
3 or 4 versions, including the latest, but I don't like working with
the Flash timeline (and I'm familiar with timelines, because I do
video editing every day with one, including animation)...Flash is
just too much buck (work) for the bang...client's (at least mine)
don't want to pay for that much work...besides, I don't like it anyway.

Now about AJAX...I don't know...could be easier or not...but my
research to this point tells me a lot harder...inline frames are easy
to understand.

I just don't think the tools are ready for Rich Client apps that I require
for working with them...I want them to be easier...nothing wrong with that.
Right now, it seems that Rich Clients and AJAX technology are still
too much in their early stages for me.  They still look like they're trying
to "frankenstein" technologies together that weren't originally meant to
work that way.  Perhaps I need to wait until AJAX 4.0 comes out and
by that time there will be AJAX tools available to make it easier...

I may be missing the boat and my perspective may be totally skewed,
so feel free to correct me...this is research time...

Rick


> -Original Message-
> From: Matthew Small [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]
> Sent: Thursday, October 27, 2005 3:56 PM
> To: CF-Talk
> Subject: RE: Inline frames a good alternative for creating web
> applications?
>
>
> Seems like you're doing more work trying to avoid work.
>
> - Matt Small
>
> -Original Message-
> From: Rick Faircloth [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]
> Sent: Thursday, October 27, 2005 3:50 PM
> To: CF-Talk
> Subject: RE: Inline frames a good alternative for creating web
> applications?
>
> Thanks for the insights, Barney...
>
> Question:  Can an inline frame be setup to trigger another
> iframe when some action is performed that triggers it?
>
> Not clear, I know...so...a scenario...
>
> Three iframes on a page...click on a link in first frame, second
> frame responds, and causes third frame to respondlike a chain
> reaction.  If so, would this substitute for concurrency?
>
> Rick
>
>
>
> > -Original Message-
> > From: Barney Boisvert [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]
> > Sent: Thursday, October 27, 2005 3:38 PM
> > To: CF-Talk
> > Subject: Re: Inline frames a good alternative for creating web
> > applications?
> >
> >
> > The biggest problem with using frames is concurrency.  You can't do
> > more than one thing at a time (unless you have two frames, then it's
> > two things at a time), which can be very troubling.  With Flash and JS
> > remoting you can perform multiple concurrent actions, which is very
> > useful.  You also get the capability to pass complex data fairly
> > easily, and move a lot of your UI logic to the client-side, which
> > results in a far better user experience.
> >
> > And don't think you can use inline frames without JS.  When the frame
> > loads, you have to parse out the content that you need, and then
> > rebuild the visible document with that new content.
> >
> > cheers,
> > barneyb
> >
> > On 10/27/05, Rick Faircloth <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> > > Hi, all...
> > >
> > > I've been interested in building web applications that don't require
> > > a page refresh for a few years now.  First Iooked at Flash...didn't
> > > like it a few versions ago...and still don't.  Don't want to work with
> > > the Flash GUI or learn ActionScript.
> > >
> > > Now, along comes AJAX...everyone's excited.  But upon further
> > > examination, to use it I've got to learn Javascript and other
> > technologies
> > > about which I know virtually nothing.  (And no...I don't have a market
> > > at this time that would justify the effort)
> > >
> > > My question is this...why not just use inline frames (as someone
> > > mentioned recently as their method for building applications)
> > to simulate
> > > "non-page refreshing" apps?
> > >
> > > I've used them a little, but not a lot, so I'd like some feedback on
> > > what the drawbacks are to building apps using inline frames...I
> > can stick
> > > to Cold Fusion and HTML alone...no Javascript, no
> Actionscript...sounds
> > > good to me.
> > >
> > > Can anyone point me to some online examples of significant
> inline frames
> > > usage
> > > to build apps?
> > >
> > > What am I missing?
> > >
> > > Thanks for any feedback and guidance...
> > >
> > > Rick
> > >
> > >
> >
> > --
> > Barney Boisvert
> > [EMAIL PROTECTED]
> > 360.319.6145
> > http://www.barneyb.com/
> >
> > Got Gmail? I have 100 invites.
> >
> >
>
>
>
> 

~|
Logware (www.logware.us): a new and convenient web-based time tracking 
application. Start tracking and documenting hours spent on a project or with a 
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Message: http://www.houseoffusion

RE: Inline frames a good alternative for creating web applications?

[Andy Matthews]

This is possible. You can use javascript to trigger an action from one frame
to another.



-Original Message-
From: Rick Faircloth [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]
Sent: Thursday, October 27, 2005 2:50 PM
To: CF-Talk
Subject: RE: Inline frames a good alternative for creating web
applications?


Thanks for the insights, Barney...

Question:  Can an inline frame be setup to trigger another
iframe when some action is performed that triggers it?

Not clear, I know...so...a scenario...

Three iframes on a page...click on a link in first frame, second
frame responds, and causes third frame to respondlike a chain
reaction.  If so, would this substitute for concurrency?

Rick



> -Original Message-
> From: Barney Boisvert [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]
> Sent: Thursday, October 27, 2005 3:38 PM
> To: CF-Talk
> Subject: Re: Inline frames a good alternative for creating web
> applications?
>
>
> The biggest problem with using frames is concurrency.  You can't do
> more than one thing at a time (unless you have two frames, then it's
> two things at a time), which can be very troubling.  With Flash and JS
> remoting you can perform multiple concurrent actions, which is very
> useful.  You also get the capability to pass complex data fairly
> easily, and move a lot of your UI logic to the client-side, which
> results in a far better user experience.
>
> And don't think you can use inline frames without JS.  When the frame
> loads, you have to parse out the content that you need, and then
> rebuild the visible document with that new content.
>
> cheers,
> barneyb
>
> On 10/27/05, Rick Faircloth <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> > Hi, all...
> >
> > I've been interested in building web applications that don't require
> > a page refresh for a few years now.  First Iooked at Flash...didn't
> > like it a few versions ago...and still don't.  Don't want to work with
> > the Flash GUI or learn ActionScript.
> >
> > Now, along comes AJAX...everyone's excited.  But upon further
> > examination, to use it I've got to learn Javascript and other
> technologies
> > about which I know virtually nothing.  (And no...I don't have a market
> > at this time that would justify the effort)
> >
> > My question is this...why not just use inline frames (as someone
> > mentioned recently as their method for building applications)
> to simulate
> > "non-page refreshing" apps?
> >
> > I've used them a little, but not a lot, so I'd like some feedback on
> > what the drawbacks are to building apps using inline frames...I
> can stick
> > to Cold Fusion and HTML alone...no Javascript, no Actionscript...sounds
> > good to me.
> >
> > Can anyone point me to some online examples of significant inline frames
> > usage
> > to build apps?
> >
> > What am I missing?
> >
> > Thanks for any feedback and guidance...
> >
> > Rick
> >
> >
>
> --
> Barney Boisvert
> [EMAIL PROTECTED]
> 360.319.6145
> http://www.barneyb.com/
>
> Got Gmail? I have 100 invites.
>
>



~|
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Re: Oracle IN limit

[Bryan Stevenson]

> If you have a subquery within the IN, no, there is no limit. 

Are you sure about that??

Bryan Stevenson B.Comm.
VP & Director of E-Commerce Development
Electric Edge Systems Group Inc.
phone: 250.480.0642
fax: 250.480.1264
cell: 250.920.8830
e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
web: www.electricedgesystems.com

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Re: Oracle IN limit

[Deanna Schneider]

Yes, yes there is.

On 10/27/05, Robert Everland III <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
>
> Does anyone know if there is a limit to how many items I can put in an IN
> clause?
>
>
>
> Bob
>
> 

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Re: Inline frames a good alternative for creating web applications?

[Barney Boisvert]

I'm with Matt.  You don't need to hack your way around these problems
with proper JS remoting, and I assure you that in the long run,
picking up some JS will be a lot less effort, not to mention
beneficial for myriad other applications.

I'm not one to generally praise the perfection of one
language/solution or another, but in this case, hacking a solution is
only going to piss you off in the long run.  If you don't want to
learn JS or Flash/Flex, your sanity (and your users' experience) will
be better off if you just stick with standard page-refresh based CF.

cheers,
barneyb

On 10/27/05, Matthew Small <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> Seems like you're doing more work trying to avoid work.
>
> - Matt Small
>

--
Barney Boisvert
[EMAIL PROTECTED]
360.319.6145
http://www.barneyb.com/

Got Gmail? I have 100 invites.

~|
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Re: Oracle IN limit

[Bryan Stevenson]

1000

Bryan Stevenson B.Comm.
VP & Director of E-Commerce Development
Electric Edge Systems Group Inc.
phone: 250.480.0642
fax: 250.480.1264
cell: 250.920.8830
e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
web: www.electricedgesystems.com

~|
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application. Start tracking and documenting hours spent on a project or with a 
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Re: Oracle IN limit

[Dave Carabetta]

On 10/27/05, Robert Everland III <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> Does anyone know if there is a limit to how many items I can put in an IN 
> clause?
>

1000.

Regards,
Dave.

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Re: Oracle IN limit

[Aaron Rouse]

There is a limit to it, but offhand I do not know what it is.

On 10/27/05, Robert Everland III <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
>
> Does anyone know if there is a limit to how many items I can put in an IN
> clause?
>
>
>
> Bob
>
> 

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RE: Oracle IN limit

[Mike Klostermeyer]

If you have a subquery within the IN, no, there is no limit.  If you specify
individual items (1,2,4,2, etc.), I have reached a limit with SQL Server,
but I don't recall what it was (well into the 5 figures).  A subquery is the
best solution.

Mike

-Original Message-
From: Robert Everland III [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]
Sent: Thursday, October 27, 2005 3:01 PM
To: CF-Talk
Subject: Oracle IN limit


Does anyone know if there is a limit to how many items I can put in an IN
clause?



Bob



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Oracle IN limit

[Robert Everland III]

Does anyone know if there is a limit to how many items I can put in an IN 
clause?



Bob

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RE: Inline frames a good alternative for creating web applications?

[Matthew Small]

Seems like you're doing more work trying to avoid work.

- Matt Small

-Original Message-
From: Rick Faircloth [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] 
Sent: Thursday, October 27, 2005 3:50 PM
To: CF-Talk
Subject: RE: Inline frames a good alternative for creating web applications?

Thanks for the insights, Barney...

Question:  Can an inline frame be setup to trigger another
iframe when some action is performed that triggers it?

Not clear, I know...so...a scenario...

Three iframes on a page...click on a link in first frame, second
frame responds, and causes third frame to respondlike a chain
reaction.  If so, would this substitute for concurrency?

Rick



> -Original Message-
> From: Barney Boisvert [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]
> Sent: Thursday, October 27, 2005 3:38 PM
> To: CF-Talk
> Subject: Re: Inline frames a good alternative for creating web
> applications?
>
>
> The biggest problem with using frames is concurrency.  You can't do
> more than one thing at a time (unless you have two frames, then it's
> two things at a time), which can be very troubling.  With Flash and JS
> remoting you can perform multiple concurrent actions, which is very
> useful.  You also get the capability to pass complex data fairly
> easily, and move a lot of your UI logic to the client-side, which
> results in a far better user experience.
>
> And don't think you can use inline frames without JS.  When the frame
> loads, you have to parse out the content that you need, and then
> rebuild the visible document with that new content.
>
> cheers,
> barneyb
>
> On 10/27/05, Rick Faircloth <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> > Hi, all...
> >
> > I've been interested in building web applications that don't require
> > a page refresh for a few years now.  First Iooked at Flash...didn't
> > like it a few versions ago...and still don't.  Don't want to work with
> > the Flash GUI or learn ActionScript.
> >
> > Now, along comes AJAX...everyone's excited.  But upon further
> > examination, to use it I've got to learn Javascript and other
> technologies
> > about which I know virtually nothing.  (And no...I don't have a market
> > at this time that would justify the effort)
> >
> > My question is this...why not just use inline frames (as someone
> > mentioned recently as their method for building applications)
> to simulate
> > "non-page refreshing" apps?
> >
> > I've used them a little, but not a lot, so I'd like some feedback on
> > what the drawbacks are to building apps using inline frames...I
> can stick
> > to Cold Fusion and HTML alone...no Javascript, no Actionscript...sounds
> > good to me.
> >
> > Can anyone point me to some online examples of significant inline frames
> > usage
> > to build apps?
> >
> > What am I missing?
> >
> > Thanks for any feedback and guidance...
> >
> > Rick
> >
> >
>
> --
> Barney Boisvert
> [EMAIL PROTECTED]
> 360.319.6145
> http://www.barneyb.com/
>
> Got Gmail? I have 100 invites.
>
> 



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RE: Inline frames a good alternative for creating web applications?

[Rick Faircloth]

Thanks for the insights, Barney...

Question:  Can an inline frame be setup to trigger another
iframe when some action is performed that triggers it?

Not clear, I know...so...a scenario...

Three iframes on a page...click on a link in first frame, second
frame responds, and causes third frame to respondlike a chain
reaction.  If so, would this substitute for concurrency?

Rick



> -Original Message-
> From: Barney Boisvert [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]
> Sent: Thursday, October 27, 2005 3:38 PM
> To: CF-Talk
> Subject: Re: Inline frames a good alternative for creating web
> applications?
>
>
> The biggest problem with using frames is concurrency.  You can't do
> more than one thing at a time (unless you have two frames, then it's
> two things at a time), which can be very troubling.  With Flash and JS
> remoting you can perform multiple concurrent actions, which is very
> useful.  You also get the capability to pass complex data fairly
> easily, and move a lot of your UI logic to the client-side, which
> results in a far better user experience.
>
> And don't think you can use inline frames without JS.  When the frame
> loads, you have to parse out the content that you need, and then
> rebuild the visible document with that new content.
>
> cheers,
> barneyb
>
> On 10/27/05, Rick Faircloth <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> > Hi, all...
> >
> > I've been interested in building web applications that don't require
> > a page refresh for a few years now.  First Iooked at Flash...didn't
> > like it a few versions ago...and still don't.  Don't want to work with
> > the Flash GUI or learn ActionScript.
> >
> > Now, along comes AJAX...everyone's excited.  But upon further
> > examination, to use it I've got to learn Javascript and other
> technologies
> > about which I know virtually nothing.  (And no...I don't have a market
> > at this time that would justify the effort)
> >
> > My question is this...why not just use inline frames (as someone
> > mentioned recently as their method for building applications)
> to simulate
> > "non-page refreshing" apps?
> >
> > I've used them a little, but not a lot, so I'd like some feedback on
> > what the drawbacks are to building apps using inline frames...I
> can stick
> > to Cold Fusion and HTML alone...no Javascript, no Actionscript...sounds
> > good to me.
> >
> > Can anyone point me to some online examples of significant inline frames
> > usage
> > to build apps?
> >
> > What am I missing?
> >
> > Thanks for any feedback and guidance...
> >
> > Rick
> >
> >
>
> --
> Barney Boisvert
> [EMAIL PROTECTED]
> 360.319.6145
> http://www.barneyb.com/
>
> Got Gmail? I have 100 invites.
>
> 

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Re: Inline frames a good alternative for creating web applications?

[Barney Boisvert]

The biggest problem with using frames is concurrency.  You can't do
more than one thing at a time (unless you have two frames, then it's
two things at a time), which can be very troubling.  With Flash and JS
remoting you can perform multiple concurrent actions, which is very
useful.  You also get the capability to pass complex data fairly
easily, and move a lot of your UI logic to the client-side, which
results in a far better user experience.

And don't think you can use inline frames without JS.  When the frame
loads, you have to parse out the content that you need, and then
rebuild the visible document with that new content.

cheers,
barneyb

On 10/27/05, Rick Faircloth <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> Hi, all...
>
> I've been interested in building web applications that don't require
> a page refresh for a few years now.  First Iooked at Flash...didn't
> like it a few versions ago...and still don't.  Don't want to work with
> the Flash GUI or learn ActionScript.
>
> Now, along comes AJAX...everyone's excited.  But upon further
> examination, to use it I've got to learn Javascript and other technologies
> about which I know virtually nothing.  (And no...I don't have a market
> at this time that would justify the effort)
>
> My question is this...why not just use inline frames (as someone
> mentioned recently as their method for building applications) to simulate
> "non-page refreshing" apps?
>
> I've used them a little, but not a lot, so I'd like some feedback on
> what the drawbacks are to building apps using inline frames...I can stick
> to Cold Fusion and HTML alone...no Javascript, no Actionscript...sounds
> good to me.
>
> Can anyone point me to some online examples of significant inline frames
> usage
> to build apps?
>
> What am I missing?
>
> Thanks for any feedback and guidance...
>
> Rick
>
>

--
Barney Boisvert
[EMAIL PROTECTED]
360.319.6145
http://www.barneyb.com/

Got Gmail? I have 100 invites.

~|
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Inline frames a good alternative for creating web applications?

[Rick Faircloth]

Hi, all...

I've been interested in building web applications that don't require
a page refresh for a few years now.  First Iooked at Flash...didn't
like it a few versions ago...and still don't.  Don't want to work with
the Flash GUI or learn ActionScript.

Now, along comes AJAX...everyone's excited.  But upon further
examination, to use it I've got to learn Javascript and other technologies
about which I know virtually nothing.  (And no...I don't have a market
at this time that would justify the effort)

My question is this...why not just use inline frames (as someone
mentioned recently as their method for building applications) to simulate
"non-page refreshing" apps?

I've used them a little, but not a lot, so I'd like some feedback on
what the drawbacks are to building apps using inline frames...I can stick
to Cold Fusion and HTML alone...no Javascript, no Actionscript...sounds
good to me.

Can anyone point me to some online examples of significant inline frames
usage
to build apps?

What am I missing?

Thanks for any feedback and guidance...

Rick



~|
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RE: About Flex 2

[Hassan Arteaga]

Thanks Robertson..but I like MM also ..and I love ColdFusion..believe me

Regards 


__
M.Sc. Hassan Arteaga Rodríguez
Microsoft Certified System Engineer
IT Specialist
DIGI Grupo de Desarrollo. COPEXTEL, S.A.
 
Este email y sus adjuntos está dirigido solamente a los destinatarios
consignados en el mismo y debe ser considerado confidencial. Si Ud. no es el
destinatario consignado o la persona responsable de entregar/enviar el
presente, no podrá copiarlo o entregarlo/enviarlo a ninguna otra persona ni
utilizar el mismo en forma no autorizada. Dichas acciones están prohibidas y
pueden ser consideradas ilegales. Si Ud. recibiese este email por error, por
favor comuníquelo de inmediato al emisor del mismo. 

-Original Message-
From: Robertson-Ravo, Neil (RX)
[mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] 
Sent: Thursday, October 27, 2005 9:01 AM
To: CF-Talk
Subject: RE: About Flex 2


If you are MS - you could always just use Atlas ;-)




-Original Message-
From: Hassan Arteaga [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]
Sent: 27 October 2005 15:30
To: CF-Talk
Subject: RE: About Flex 2

Thanks Joe ...
Now I have how to start 


__
M.Sc. Hassan Arteaga Rodríguez
Microsoft Certified System Engineer
IT Specialist
DIGI Grupo de Desarrollo. COPEXTEL, S.A.
 
Este email y sus adjuntos está dirigido solamente a los destinatarios
consignados en el mismo y debe ser considerado confidencial. Si Ud. no es el
destinatario consignado o la persona responsable de entregar/enviar el
presente, no podrá copiarlo o entregarlo/enviarlo a ninguna otra persona ni
utilizar el mismo en forma no autorizada. Dichas acciones están prohibidas y
pueden ser consideradas ilegales. Si Ud. recibiese este email por error, por
favor comuníquelo de inmediato al emisor del mismo. 

-Original Message-
From: Joe Rinehart [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]
Sent: Wednesday, October 26, 2005 5:12 PM
To: CF-Talk
Subject: Re: About Flex 2


I would download and install the Flex Builder 2 alpha from
labs.macromedia.com.  It comes with a good set of tutorials, etc.

-Joe

On 10/26/05, Hassan Arteaga <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> Hi all:
>
> I'd like to start my first steps in Flex..
> Simple question:
>
> What I need to install in order to build my fisrt "Hello word " app ?
>
> Regards
>
> __
> M.Sc. Hassan Arteaga Rodríguez
> Microsoft Certified System Engineer
> IT Specialist
> DIGI Grupo de Desarrollo. COPEXTEL, S.A.
>
> Este email y sus adjuntos está dirigido solamente a los destinatarios 
> consignados en el mismo y debe ser considerado confidencial. Si Ud. no 
> es el destinatario consignado o la persona responsable de 
> entregar/enviar el presente, no podrá copiarlo o entregarlo/enviarlo a 
> ninguna otra persona ni utilizar el mismo en forma no autorizada. 
> Dichas acciones están prohibidas y pueden ser consideradas ilegales. 
> Si Ud. recibiese este email por error, por favor comuníquelo de inmediato
al emisor del mismo.
>
>
>
> 







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Re: portable SQL queries with date and time values

[wolf2k5]

On 10/27/05, Kerry <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> dont know about best practice, but to ensure date portability I dont use
> date fields in the DB, I use varchar fields and put ISO dates in them e.g.
>
> 20051027T161420
>
> Then if needed, I convert to proper dates once the value is out of the DB.
> Since I know the string will alway be in the same format, I can use string
> functions e.g. mid() to pull the data out and create a date -
> createdate(left(mydate,4),mid(mydate,5,2) e.t.c.

Uhm, that way you lose the ability to use some db features (e.g. date
comparison, max, etc.), don't you?

Thanks.

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Re: How would I send an XML file to another server/application?

[Anthony Prato]

I had a client who could not figure out how to send and xml post like
Andy's example. On my recieving page I put this code to allow them to
post as a named form field or an xml post.








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Re: ColdFusion MX7 and Flex Recommendations

[Ali Awan]

I guess I was confused because I had downloaded Flex1.5 and was playing with 
that a little bit before I read all the Flex 2 alpha "hooplah".

So I was basically looking for the Flex 2 equivalent of the Flex1.5 server.
But there is none yet.  As you said, basically you compile the Flex code into 
an SWF which you can just plonk in your webroot.

So will the Enterprise Services be similar to what I was thinking of Flex1.5?
>From what I read at Macromedia Labs, it seems that with Flex Enterprise 
>Services, you can talk directly to the database?  Eliminating the need for 
>Coldfusion?  Or do I have this wrong?  I guess I wonder where CF would fit 
>into the picture with Flex Enterprise Services(these are pretty much 
>rhetorical questions, I know Sean that you are not a Flex Representative :) )  
>I'm pretty much aiming these questions at anyone who may be able to shed some 
>light on the subject.


>On 10/25/05, Ali Awan <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
>> I was thinking that to use CF and Flex together there was some sort of Flex
>> server component that could be added to CF server.
>
>The Enterprise Data Services component of Flex 2 is/will be a server
>component but Flex Builder 2 can create standalone SWFs that use
>HTTP/SOAP to communicate with a server...
>
>> Would I be correct in assuming then, that the CF Adapter for Flex is similar
>> to Flash Remoting?
>
>...and the CF Adapter provides a new Flash Remoting style way of
>allowing Flex Builder 2 generated SWFs to communicate with CFCs
>directly. See:
>
>http://labs.macromedia.com/wiki/index.php/CF_Adapter
>--
>Sean A Corfield -- http://corfield.org/
>Got frameworks?
>
>"If you're not annoying somebody, you're not really alive."
>-- Margaret Atwood

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RE: CFInput Validate

[Burns, John D]

Not sure with MX7, but just a thought... If this is HTML output you're
talking about and not flash forms, make sure that your site has access
to the /CFIDE directory so it can access the javascript that it needs.
If /CFIDE is not in your root, you can copy the files there yourself
(probably not the best idea) or you can create a virtual directory. Just
ensure that if you don't have the /CFIDE directory in there for a reason
(security) ensure that you use HTTP authentication or something similar
to block access to the /CFIDE/Administrator.  


John Burns
Certified Advanced ColdFusion MX Developer
Wyle Laboratories, Inc. | Web Developer
 

-Original Message-
From: Dan Cone [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] 
Sent: Thursday, October 27, 2005 1:00 PM
To: CF-Talk
Subject: CFInput Validate

So does the validating work in the MX7 cfform with cfinput any more.
I am simply trying to use the validate for an integer in the cfinput and
it is just ignoreing it and not validating. I have never had trouble
with this, but this is new MX7 for me. Did this change or another way to
do it???
Dan



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CFInput Validate

[Dan Cone]

So does the validating work in the MX7 cfform with cfinput any more.
I am simply trying to use the validate for an integer in the cfinput
and it is just ignoreing it and not validating. I have never had
trouble with this, but this is new MX7 for me. Did this change or
another way to do it???
Dan

~|
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RE: Source Control Theory.....

[Mark A Kruger]

Doug,

10 points for creativity - made me laugh.

-mk

-Original Message-
From: Douglas Knudsen [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]
Sent: Thursday, October 27, 2005 10:33 AM
To: CF-Talk
Subject: Re: Source Control Theory.


we recently chose BUTT over ASS for our SCM solution.  BUTT, or Brave
User Text Tracker, worked fine and had the same cardinality on the set
of issues experienced as ASS, or Applied Source Solutions.  Both tools
possessed a rather large outflow of community support, unfortunately
ASS had that proprietary smell about it, possibly locking us into the
large corporate throne above the abyss.  The new kid on the block
REAR, or Real Edit And Replace, seems quite promising addressing some
of the blockage BUTT has with a few items.  Other products do exist,
but they add a whole new Dimension to the subject at hand.

sorry, I couldn't resist...lack of sleep and coding like a monkey
brings out the twisted creative, eh?  I recently forced CVS onto the
members of my team.  So far its been fun.  TortoiseCVS makes it fairly
simple.  The only real difficulty is branching and merging of
branches, a tricky thing for sure.  We went with CVS/tortoise because
it was free, well known with a great public support, and our team is
small.  Our company has officially chosen Dimensions, a huge product
that is not for the faint of heart.

DK



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RE: CFDirectory

[Dawson, Michael]

You will also need to run the CF services as an account that has
permissions to access that remote location.

M!ke 

-Original Message-
From: Tim Heald [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] 
Sent: Thursday, October 27, 2005 11:38 AM
To: CF-Talk
Subject: RE: CFDirectory

As long as the box you are trying to hit has a share set up you can use
an unc path like:

\\myBox\c$\myfiles\

Tim Heald
[EMAIL PROTECTED]
ColdFusion Developer
Signal Solutions, Inc

Work : 202-224-1224
Cell : 703-765-0618 

> -Original Message-
> From: Dave Ashworth [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]
> Sent: Thursday, October 27, 2005 12:18 PM
> To: CF-Talk
> Subject: CFDirectory
> 
> Is it possible to use CFDirectory to access a folder on a different 
> server?
> 
> I have seen examples of accessing a folder by IP but this to me looks 
> to be servers that have mapped network drives - would this be the only

> way to do this?
> 
> Thanks
> Dave

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RE: CFDirectory

[Tim Heald]

As long as the box you are trying to hit has a share set up you can use an
unc path like:

\\myBox\c$\myfiles\

Tim Heald
[EMAIL PROTECTED]
ColdFusion Developer
Signal Solutions, Inc

Work : 202-224-1224
Cell : 703-765-0618 

> -Original Message-
> From: Dave Ashworth [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] 
> Sent: Thursday, October 27, 2005 12:18 PM
> To: CF-Talk
> Subject: CFDirectory
> 
> Is it possible to use CFDirectory to access a folder on a 
> different server?
> 
> I have seen examples of accessing a folder by IP but this to 
> me looks to be servers that have mapped network drives - 
> would this be the only way to do this?
> 
> Thanks
> Dave
> 
> 
> 

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Re: CFDirectory

[Alan Rother]

And as a last case scenario, if you don't have CF on the second box, you
could use CFFTP to get the directory structure, assuming you can get FTP
access at a root level.
 =]

 On 10/27/05, John Beynon <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
>
> i had to do something similar between a windows and solaris box - I
> wrote a CFC which i exposed as a webservice which returned the
> recordset returned from a cfdirectory,
>
> that might work for you?
>
> john.
>
> On 10/27/05, Bryan Stevenson <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> > yeah it's got to be accessible from the CF server...so a mapped
> drive...no
> > go with remote machines
> >
> > Bryan Stevenson B.Comm.
> > VP & Director of E-Commerce Development
> > Electric Edge Systems Group Inc.
> > phone: 250.480.0642
> > fax: 250.480.1264
> > cell: 250.920.8830
> > e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
> > web: www.electricedgesystems.com 
> >
> >
> >
>
> 

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Re: CFDirectory

[John Beynon]

i had to do something similar between a windows and solaris box - I
wrote a CFC which i exposed as a webservice which returned the
recordset returned from a cfdirectory,

that might work for you?

john.

On 10/27/05, Bryan Stevenson <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> yeah it's got to be accessible from the CF server...so a mapped drive...no
> go with remote machines
>
> Bryan Stevenson B.Comm.
> VP & Director of E-Commerce Development
> Electric Edge Systems Group Inc.
> phone: 250.480.0642
> fax: 250.480.1264
> cell: 250.920.8830
> e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
> web: www.electricedgesystems.com
>
>
> 

~|
Logware (www.logware.us): a new and convenient web-based time tracking 
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client with Logware today. Try it for free with a 15 day trial account.
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