CF and Legacy Systems... Need Some Advice/Help

2007-02-06 Thread Che Vilnonis
Good morning all. I have a client that has a CF based website (built by
myself around 5 years ago) and a SCO Unix Open Server backend. It's a legacy
system with software that's been heavily modified over the last 20-25 years.
Neither system communicates with the other.

The client is looking to streamline the order fulfillment process and to
get with 21st century. They wish to add a live inventory and live credit
card processing feature to their website.

Though I have done this type of work in the past, I have never worked with a
legacy system to complete this. And, to complicate matters, the software
technicians that administer the SCO Unix Open Server DO NOT wish to use a
HTTP protocol to communicate between the two servers. They tell me that they
wish to communicate to my CF server via the FTP protocol.

A basic interaction would go something like this. A customer would attempt
to place an item in their shopping cart. Before the item is added to the
cart an inventory check is made. A CF process would write an XML file and
FTP it to the remote SCO Unix Open Server. The remote server would then
respond and push a response file back to the CF server. The CF server would
process the file and determine a Yes/No answer and either add the item to
the cart or display a message that the item is out of stock to the customer.

I was wondering, can this even be done with CF and the FTP protocol instead
of using HTTP? With HTTP, this would be relatively easy with the cfhttp
tag. With FTP, I am not sure how the communication would work. :(

In my mind, even if I used the CF Event Gateway to monitor a predefined
directory for FTP traffic... I cannot figure out how to parse the FTP file
and send the response back to the right shopping cart.

Does that make sense? Any help anyone could provide me would be much
appreciated.

Regards, Che


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RE: CF and Legacy Systems... Need Some Advice/Help

2007-02-06 Thread Dan G. Switzer, II
Che,

While it could be done, using FTP is going to be extremely sluggish--unless
you can manage to keep the FTP session open all day. 

If you have to log in for each request, you're going to end up adding a good
second or two to the entire process just for the FTP authentication
operations. That's going to seem like forever to a customer on their
website.

If the client insists on FTP, I'd probably look into writing/finding an
application that would monitor a specific folder and push any new files to
the FTP server--something that would run as a service and would maintain the
FTP session.

That way you'd simply write a file to one folder, it would be pushed to the
SCO server and then when it's done it would push a result back to another
folder on your server.

It still might be too sluggish, but it would seem like the best method for
managing this problem.

-Dan


-Original Message-
From: Che Vilnonis [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]
Sent: Tuesday, February 06, 2007 8:32 AM
To: CF-Talk
Subject: CF and Legacy Systems... Need Some Advice/Help

Good morning all. I have a client that has a CF based website (built by
myself around 5 years ago) and a SCO Unix Open Server backend. It's a
legacy
system with software that's been heavily modified over the last 20-25
years.
Neither system communicates with the other.

The client is looking to streamline the order fulfillment process and to
get with 21st century. They wish to add a live inventory and live credit
card processing feature to their website.

Though I have done this type of work in the past, I have never worked with
a
legacy system to complete this. And, to complicate matters, the software
technicians that administer the SCO Unix Open Server DO NOT wish to use a
HTTP protocol to communicate between the two servers. They tell me that
they
wish to communicate to my CF server via the FTP protocol.

A basic interaction would go something like this. A customer would attempt
to place an item in their shopping cart. Before the item is added to the
cart an inventory check is made. A CF process would write an XML file and
FTP it to the remote SCO Unix Open Server. The remote server would then
respond and push a response file back to the CF server. The CF server would
process the file and determine a Yes/No answer and either add the item to
the cart or display a message that the item is out of stock to the
customer.

I was wondering, can this even be done with CF and the FTP protocol instead
of using HTTP? With HTTP, this would be relatively easy with the cfhttp
tag. With FTP, I am not sure how the communication would work. :(

In my mind, even if I used the CF Event Gateway to monitor a predefined
directory for FTP traffic... I cannot figure out how to parse the FTP file
and send the response back to the right shopping cart.

Does that make sense? Any help anyone could provide me would be much
appreciated.

Regards, Che




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Re: CF and Legacy Systems... Need Some Advice/Help

2007-02-06 Thread Tom Chiverton
On Tuesday 06 Feb 2007, Che Vilnonis wrote:
 I was wondering, can this even be done with CF and the FTP protocol instead
 of using HTTP? With HTTP, this would be relatively easy with the cfhttp
 tag. With FTP, I am not sure how the communication would work. :(

Yeah, you can do it.
If you have a version of CF that can use the event gateway / directory watcher 
it may even not be utterly horrible.

 directory for FTP traffic... I cannot figure out how to parse the FTP file
 and send the response back to the right shopping cart.

You'd have to have the response XML include some sort of user or session 
token.

The end result will be a unresponsive GUI that hangs around a lot 
saying 'please wait... adding item to cart' and similar. Eww. But you know 
that :-)

-- 
Tom Chiverton
Helping to authoritatively scale six-generation infrastructures



This email is sent for and on behalf of Halliwells LLP.

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James's Court Brown Street Manchester M2 2JF.  A list of members is available 
for inspection at the registered office. Any reference to a partner in relation 
to Halliwells LLP means a member of Halliwells LLP. Regulated by the Law 
Society.

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RE: CF and Legacy Systems... Need Some Advice/Help

2007-02-06 Thread Che Vilnonis
Thanks Dan. My thoughts exactly. In my mind, the SCO software technicians
simply don't want to add a webserver because of the increased security
issues that would arise. And yes, it *would* be terribly slow.

Che

-Original Message-
From: Dan G. Switzer, II [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] 
Sent: Tuesday, February 06, 2007 9:09 AM
To: CF-Talk
Subject: RE: CF and Legacy Systems... Need Some Advice/Help


Che,

While it could be done, using FTP is going to be extremely sluggish--unless
you can manage to keep the FTP session open all day. 

If you have to log in for each request, you're going to end up adding a good
second or two to the entire process just for the FTP authentication
operations. That's going to seem like forever to a customer on their
website.

If the client insists on FTP, I'd probably look into writing/finding an
application that would monitor a specific folder and push any new files to
the FTP server--something that would run as a service and would maintain the
FTP session.

That way you'd simply write a file to one folder, it would be pushed to the
SCO server and then when it's done it would push a result back to another
folder on your server.

It still might be too sluggish, but it would seem like the best method for
managing this problem.

-Dan


-Original Message-
From: Che Vilnonis [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]
Sent: Tuesday, February 06, 2007 8:32 AM
To: CF-Talk
Subject: CF and Legacy Systems... Need Some Advice/Help

Good morning all. I have a client that has a CF based website (built by 
myself around 5 years ago) and a SCO Unix Open Server backend. It's a 
legacy system with software that's been heavily modified over the last 
20-25 years.
Neither system communicates with the other.

The client is looking to streamline the order fulfillment process and 
to get with 21st century. They wish to add a live inventory and live 
credit card processing feature to their website.

Though I have done this type of work in the past, I have never worked 
with a legacy system to complete this. And, to complicate matters, the 
software technicians that administer the SCO Unix Open Server DO NOT 
wish to use a HTTP protocol to communicate between the two servers. 
They tell me that they
wish to communicate to my CF server via the FTP protocol.

A basic interaction would go something like this. A customer would 
attempt to place an item in their shopping cart. Before the item is 
added to the cart an inventory check is made. A CF process would 
write an XML file and FTP it to the remote SCO Unix Open Server. The 
remote server would then respond and push a response file back to the 
CF server. The CF server would process the file and determine a Yes/No 
answer and either add the item to the cart or display a message that 
the item is out of stock to the customer.

I was wondering, can this even be done with CF and the FTP protocol 
instead of using HTTP? With HTTP, this would be relatively easy with 
the cfhttp tag. With FTP, I am not sure how the communication would 
work. :(

In my mind, even if I used the CF Event Gateway to monitor a predefined 
directory for FTP traffic... I cannot figure out how to parse the FTP 
file and send the response back to the right shopping cart.

Does that make sense? Any help anyone could provide me would be much 
appreciated.

Regards, Che






~|
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Re: CF and Legacy Systems... Need Some Advice/Help

2007-02-06 Thread Jochem van Dieten
Che Vilnonis wrote:
 Good morning all. I have a client that has a CF based website (built by
 myself around 5 years ago) and a SCO Unix Open Server backend. It's a legacy
 system with software that's been heavily modified over the last 20-25 years.
 Neither system communicates with the other.
 
 The client is looking to streamline the order fulfillment process and to
 get with 21st century. They wish to add a live inventory and live credit
 card processing feature to their website.
 
 Though I have done this type of work in the past, I have never worked with a
 legacy system to complete this. And, to complicate matters, the software
 technicians that administer the SCO Unix Open Server DO NOT wish to use a
 HTTP protocol to communicate between the two servers. They tell me that they
 wish to communicate to my CF server via the FTP protocol.

That would not be my preferred option.


 A basic interaction would go something like this. A customer would attempt
 to place an item in their shopping cart. Before the item is added to the
 cart an inventory check is made. A CF process would write an XML file and
 FTP it to the remote SCO Unix Open Server. The remote server would then
 respond and push a response file back to the CF server. The CF server would
 process the file and determine a Yes/No answer and either add the item to
 the cart or display a message that the item is out of stock to the customer.
 
 I was wondering, can this even be done with CF and the FTP protocol instead
 of using HTTP?

Yes. But the question is, what response time can the software 
technicians guarantee from the moment you start your FTP transaction to 
the moment they complete theirs? Will they guarantee a sub-second 
response time (which an interactive website needs).


 In my mind, even if I used the CF Event Gateway to monitor a predefined
 directory for FTP traffic... I cannot figure out how to parse the FTP file
 and send the response back to the right shopping cart.

It is probably easier not to use an event gateway at all and just FTP to 
them, sleep for a second and parse the result (because they are 
guaranteeing sub-second response times, right?).

Jochem

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RE: CF and Legacy Systems... Need Some Advice/Help

2007-02-06 Thread Che Vilnonis
Yeah... what Tom said... Eww. Now, I have to go do some convincing.

-Original Message-
From: Tom Chiverton [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] 
Sent: Tuesday, February 06, 2007 9:10 AM
To: CF-Talk
Subject: Re: CF and Legacy Systems... Need Some Advice/Help


On Tuesday 06 Feb 2007, Che Vilnonis wrote:
 I was wondering, can this even be done with CF and the FTP protocol 
 instead of using HTTP? With HTTP, this would be relatively easy with 
 the cfhttp tag. With FTP, I am not sure how the communication would 
 work. :(

Yeah, you can do it.
If you have a version of CF that can use the event gateway / directory
watcher 
it may even not be utterly horrible.

 directory for FTP traffic... I cannot figure out how to parse the FTP 
 file and send the response back to the right shopping cart.

You'd have to have the response XML include some sort of user or session 
token.

The end result will be a unresponsive GUI that hangs around a lot 
saying 'please wait... adding item to cart' and similar. Eww. But you know 
that :-)

-- 
Tom Chiverton
Helping to authoritatively scale six-generation infrastructures



This email is sent for and on behalf of Halliwells LLP.

Halliwells LLP is a limited liability partnership registered in England and
Wales under registered number OC307980 whose registered office address is at
St James's Court Brown Street Manchester M2 2JF.  A list of members is
available for inspection at the registered office. Any reference to a
partner in relation to Halliwells LLP means a member of Halliwells LLP.
Regulated by the Law Society.

CONFIDENTIALITY

This email is intended only for the use of the addressee named above and may
be confidential or legally privileged.  If you are not the addressee you
must not read it and must not use any information contained in nor copy it
nor inform any person other than Halliwells LLP or the addressee of its
existence or contents.  If you have received this email in error please
delete it and notify Halliwells LLP IT Department on 0870 365 8008.

For more information about Halliwells LLP visit www.halliwells.com.




~|
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RE: CF and Legacy Systems... Need Some Advice/Help

2007-02-06 Thread Peterson, Chris
Why not just look into an ODBC connection to the database on the legacy
system?  It may not be the best thing in the world, but if you setup
permissions properly for the connecting user you shouldn't be exposed to
anything bad.  Maybe the inventory check can go over ODBC and the actual
order can be an FTP'd XML file?

Chris 

-Original Message-
From: Jochem van Dieten [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] 
Sent: Tuesday, February 06, 2007 9:16 AM
To: CF-Talk
Subject: Re: CF and Legacy Systems... Need Some Advice/Help

Che Vilnonis wrote:
 Good morning all. I have a client that has a CF based website (built
by
 myself around 5 years ago) and a SCO Unix Open Server backend. It's a
legacy
 system with software that's been heavily modified over the last 20-25
years.
 Neither system communicates with the other.
 
 The client is looking to streamline the order fulfillment process and
to
 get with 21st century. They wish to add a live inventory and live
credit
 card processing feature to their website.
 
 Though I have done this type of work in the past, I have never worked
with a
 legacy system to complete this. And, to complicate matters, the
software
 technicians that administer the SCO Unix Open Server DO NOT wish to
use a
 HTTP protocol to communicate between the two servers. They tell me
that they
 wish to communicate to my CF server via the FTP protocol.

That would not be my preferred option.


 A basic interaction would go something like this. A customer would
attempt
 to place an item in their shopping cart. Before the item is added to
the
 cart an inventory check is made. A CF process would write an XML
file and
 FTP it to the remote SCO Unix Open Server. The remote server would
then
 respond and push a response file back to the CF server. The CF server
would
 process the file and determine a Yes/No answer and either add the item
to
 the cart or display a message that the item is out of stock to the
customer.
 
 I was wondering, can this even be done with CF and the FTP protocol
instead
 of using HTTP?

Yes. But the question is, what response time can the software 
technicians guarantee from the moment you start your FTP transaction to 
the moment they complete theirs? Will they guarantee a sub-second 
response time (which an interactive website needs).


 In my mind, even if I used the CF Event Gateway to monitor a
predefined
 directory for FTP traffic... I cannot figure out how to parse the FTP
file
 and send the response back to the right shopping cart.

It is probably easier not to use an event gateway at all and just FTP to

them, sleep for a second and parse the result (because they are 
guaranteeing sub-second response times, right?).

Jochem



~|
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Re: CF and Legacy Systems... Need Some Advice/Help

2007-02-06 Thread Cutter (CFRelated)
Che,

That is unfortunate, and terribly short sighted on their part. It is 
actually fairly easy to limit port 80 traffic to specific IP addresses, 
thereby limiting communication to their server only from the webserver 
itself. They could even set it up so that the web traffic used a 
non-standard port, to which your server requests would specify in the 
http requests. The security issue is valid, but they aren't thinking 
outside of the box, which will potentially cost them a worthwhile 
application.

Cutter
_
http://blog.cutterscrossing.com

Che Vilnonis wrote:
 Thanks Dan. My thoughts exactly. In my mind, the SCO software technicians
 simply don't want to add a webserver because of the increased security
 issues that would arise. And yes, it *would* be terribly slow.
 
 Che
 
 -Original Message-
 From: Dan G. Switzer, II [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] 
 Sent: Tuesday, February 06, 2007 9:09 AM
 To: CF-Talk
 Subject: RE: CF and Legacy Systems... Need Some Advice/Help
 
 
 Che,
 
 While it could be done, using FTP is going to be extremely sluggish--unless
 you can manage to keep the FTP session open all day. 
 
 If you have to log in for each request, you're going to end up adding a good
 second or two to the entire process just for the FTP authentication
 operations. That's going to seem like forever to a customer on their
 website.
 
 If the client insists on FTP, I'd probably look into writing/finding an
 application that would monitor a specific folder and push any new files to
 the FTP server--something that would run as a service and would maintain the
 FTP session.
 
 That way you'd simply write a file to one folder, it would be pushed to the
 SCO server and then when it's done it would push a result back to another
 folder on your server.
 
 It still might be too sluggish, but it would seem like the best method for
 managing this problem.
 
 -Dan
 
 
 
-Original Message-
From: Che Vilnonis [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]
Sent: Tuesday, February 06, 2007 8:32 AM
To: CF-Talk
Subject: CF and Legacy Systems... Need Some Advice/Help

Good morning all. I have a client that has a CF based website (built by 
myself around 5 years ago) and a SCO Unix Open Server backend. It's a 
legacy system with software that's been heavily modified over the last 
20-25 years.
Neither system communicates with the other.

The client is looking to streamline the order fulfillment process and 
to get with 21st century. They wish to add a live inventory and live 
credit card processing feature to their website.

Though I have done this type of work in the past, I have never worked 
with a legacy system to complete this. And, to complicate matters, the 
software technicians that administer the SCO Unix Open Server DO NOT 
wish to use a HTTP protocol to communicate between the two servers. 
They tell me that they
wish to communicate to my CF server via the FTP protocol.

A basic interaction would go something like this. A customer would 
attempt to place an item in their shopping cart. Before the item is 
added to the cart an inventory check is made. A CF process would 
write an XML file and FTP it to the remote SCO Unix Open Server. The 
remote server would then respond and push a response file back to the 
CF server. The CF server would process the file and determine a Yes/No 
answer and either add the item to the cart or display a message that 
the item is out of stock to the customer.

I was wondering, can this even be done with CF and the FTP protocol 
instead of using HTTP? With HTTP, this would be relatively easy with 
the cfhttp tag. With FTP, I am not sure how the communication would 
work. :(

In my mind, even if I used the CF Event Gateway to monitor a predefined 
directory for FTP traffic... I cannot figure out how to parse the FTP 
file and send the response back to the right shopping cart.

Does that make sense? Any help anyone could provide me would be much 
appreciated.

Regards, Che



 
 
 
 
 

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RE: CF and Legacy Systems... Need Some Advice/Help

2007-02-06 Thread Dan G. Switzer, II
Che,

Thanks Dan. My thoughts exactly. In my mind, the SCO software technicians
simply don't want to add a webserver because of the increased security
issues that would arise. And yes, it *would* be terribly slow.

If you can keep the FTP session active all the time, it will help w/the
performance, but I still think it's going to be tediously sluggish. 

Are you planning on having the CF server on Windows or *nix? 

-Dan


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Re: CF and Legacy Systems... Need Some Advice/Help

2007-02-06 Thread Rick Root
Pardon my off topic reply, but I think I might have nightmares about this
scenario when I go to bed tonight!!!

On 2/6/07, Che Vilnonis [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:

 Good morning all. I have a client that has a CF based website (built by
 myself around 5 years ago) and a SCO Unix Open Server backend. It's a
 legacy
 system with software that's been heavily modified over the last 20-25
 years.
 Neither system communicates with the other.

 The client is looking to streamline the order fulfillment process and to
 get with 21st century. They wish to add a live inventory and live credit
 card processing feature to their website.

 Though I have done this type of work in the past, I have never worked with
 a
 legacy system to complete this. And, to complicate matters, the software
 technicians that administer the SCO Unix Open Server DO NOT wish to use a
 HTTP protocol to communicate between the two servers. They tell me that
 they
 wish to communicate to my CF server via the FTP protocol.

 A basic interaction would go something like this. A customer would attempt
 to place an item in their shopping cart. Before the item is added to the
 cart an inventory check is made. A CF process would write an XML file
 and
 FTP it to the remote SCO Unix Open Server. The remote server would then
 respond and push a response file back to the CF server. The CF server
 would
 process the file and determine a Yes/No answer and either add the item to
 the cart or display a message that the item is out of stock to the
 customer.

 I was wondering, can this even be done with CF and the FTP protocol
 instead
 of using HTTP? With HTTP, this would be relatively easy with the cfhttp
 tag. With FTP, I am not sure how the communication would work. :(

 In my mind, even if I used the CF Event Gateway to monitor a predefined
 directory for FTP traffic... I cannot figure out how to parse the FTP file
 and send the response back to the right shopping cart.

 Does that make sense? Any help anyone could provide me would be much
 appreciated.

 Regards, Che


 

~|
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Experience Flex 2  MX7 integration  create powerful cross-platform RIAs 
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RE: CF and Legacy Systems... Need Some Advice/Help

2007-02-06 Thread Che Vilnonis
Dan, the server will be on Windows. I'm basically using everyone's replies
as a vote for how this should be handled. I don't want to re-invent the
wheel and that is why I have my doubts with doing this via FTP.

~Ché

-Original Message-
From: Dan G. Switzer, II [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] 
Sent: Tuesday, February 06, 2007 10:15 AM
To: CF-Talk
Subject: RE: CF and Legacy Systems... Need Some Advice/Help


Che,

Thanks Dan. My thoughts exactly. In my mind, the SCO software 
technicians simply don't want to add a webserver because of the 
increased security issues that would arise. And yes, it *would* be 
terribly slow.

If you can keep the FTP session active all the time, it will help w/the
performance, but I still think it's going to be tediously sluggish. 

Are you planning on having the CF server on Windows or *nix? 

-Dan




~|
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RE: CF and Legacy Systems... Need Some Advice/Help

2007-02-06 Thread Peterson, Chris
Even using cffile would be faster than FTP.  You would have to have the user 
that Coldfusion is running as (the service) setup with permissions to your 
legacy system, maybe a specific samba share (if possible?)

Chris 

-Original Message-
From: Che Vilnonis [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] 
Sent: Tuesday, February 06, 2007 10:20 AM
To: CF-Talk
Subject: RE: CF and Legacy Systems... Need Some Advice/Help

Dan, the server will be on Windows. I'm basically using everyone's replies
as a vote for how this should be handled. I don't want to re-invent the
wheel and that is why I have my doubts with doing this via FTP.

~Ché

-Original Message-
From: Dan G. Switzer, II [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] 
Sent: Tuesday, February 06, 2007 10:15 AM
To: CF-Talk
Subject: RE: CF and Legacy Systems... Need Some Advice/Help


Che,

Thanks Dan. My thoughts exactly. In my mind, the SCO software 
technicians simply don't want to add a webserver because of the 
increased security issues that would arise. And yes, it *would* be 
terribly slow.

If you can keep the FTP session active all the time, it will help w/the
performance, but I still think it's going to be tediously sluggish. 

Are you planning on having the CF server on Windows or *nix? 

-Dan






~|
Upgrade to Adobe ColdFusion MX7 
Experience Flex 2  MX7 integration  create powerful cross-platform RIAs 
http:http://ad.doubleclick.net/clk;56760587;14748456;a?http://www.adobe.com/products/coldfusion/flex2/?sdid=LVNU

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RE: CF and Legacy Systems... Need Some Advice/Help

2007-02-06 Thread Dan G. Switzer, II
Che,

Dan, the server will be on Windows. I'm basically using everyone's replies
as a vote for how this should be handled. I don't want to re-invent the
wheel and that is why I have my doubts with doing this via FTP.

Unix definitely handles FTP operations much more efficiently than Windows.
On a project that I once worked on, we need to FTP new images to a server
every second (this was for a traffic camera application.) 

We could never find a Windows FTP server that could keep up w/the FTP
operations, on the other hand our Unix server had no issues keeping up w/the
stream of images.

-Dan


~|
Upgrade to Adobe ColdFusion MX7 
Experience Flex 2  MX7 integration  create powerful cross-platform RIAs 
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RE: CF and Legacy Systems... Need Some Advice/Help

2007-02-06 Thread Che Vilnonis
Dan, this is great to know. And since we have no plans to move to a *nix
environment, that's all the more reason to not use FTP.

Thanks, Ché

-Original Message-
From: Dan G. Switzer, II [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] 
Sent: Tuesday, February 06, 2007 10:27 AM
To: CF-Talk
Subject: RE: CF and Legacy Systems... Need Some Advice/Help


Che,

Dan, the server will be on Windows. I'm basically using everyone's 
replies as a vote for how this should be handled. I don't want to 
re-invent the wheel and that is why I have my doubts with doing this 
via FTP.

Unix definitely handles FTP operations much more efficiently than Windows.
On a project that I once worked on, we need to FTP new images to a server
every second (this was for a traffic camera application.) 

We could never find a Windows FTP server that could keep up w/the FTP
operations, on the other hand our Unix server had no issues keeping up w/the
stream of images.

-Dan




~|
Upgrade to Adobe ColdFusion MX7 
Experience Flex 2  MX7 integration  create powerful cross-platform RIAs 
http:http://ad.doubleclick.net/clk;56760587;14748456;a?http://www.adobe.com/products/coldfusion/flex2/?sdid=LVNU

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