Re: I love CF but it's not fair
No, s/he is not, because web development is fun and CF web development is the best. - Original Message From: Dinner [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: CF-Talk cf-talk@houseoffusion.com Sent: Tuesday, June 12, 2007 5:23:33 PM Subject: Re: I love CF but it's not fair On 6/12/07, Dave l wrote: One time i looked and there were lots of .net php jobs around here but they averaged about $25 an hour for pay, whereas the cfm jobs averaged about $55 an hour. So is a decent cf dev retarded to work for around $20 an hour, 90hrs a week? No no, don't answer, that was a trick question. Or rhetorical, perhaps. *sigh* Yeah, this buddy of mine, you know... poor bastard... least his retirement's only X years away... *sigh* *sings:* Don't cry for my buddy, Argentina... LOL. Yeah, there's more to life than money. I do rather like having a good bit of it tho... ~| ColdFusion MX7 and Flex 2 Build sales marketing dashboard RIAâs for your business. Upgrade now http://www.adobe.com/products/coldfusion/flex2?sdid=RVJT Archive: http://www.houseoffusion.com/groups/CF-Talk/message.cfm/messageid:280941 Subscription: http://www.houseoffusion.com/groups/CF-Talk/subscribe.cfm Unsubscribe: http://www.houseoffusion.com/cf_lists/unsubscribe.cfm?user=89.70.4
Re: I love CF but it's not fair
Hi Russ, well you really should take a look at Railo. Railo 2 is MX 7.02 compatible and you could easily use it instead of other engines. The Railix version for instance is a zip file that you can just unpack into a directory and start it with a batch or sh file. No installation necessary. Furthermore Railo supports all common Frameworks like Fusebox 5.x, MachII 1.x, ModelGlue, Coldspring, Coldbox etc... Just give it a try. More here: http://www.railo.ch and http://www.railo.ch/blog http://david.low.me.uk/2007/05/27/multiple-instance-madness/ http://blog.bpsite.net/item/37/Why%20Railo%202?.html Greetings Gert Franz Customer Care Railo Technologies GmbH [EMAIL PROTECTED] www.railo.ch Join our Mailing List english: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/railo_talk/ Russ schrieb: Russ wrote: Maybe someone should make a free/open source CF server. That would probably get more people using it. Of course once you've invested this much time into developing a product like that, it's hard not to start charging for it. (Didn't CF5 and BlueDragon start out as free products?) There are free and cheap engines out there. Someone mentioned Smith already, there's also Railo's community edition (and their other editions are very reasonable too). I haven't looked at these yet in depth, but are they compatible enough to be useful? I remember even BD having compatibility issues. BD has a free edition too - I don't recall CF5 ever being free though, unless it was some kind of upgrade promotion when Macromedia launched it post-Allaire? BD has a free edition, but it's pretty much useless as are the rest of their J2EE editions. The free edition doesn't support SSL and is not for commercial use, which makes it useless for most projects. The J2EE version is around the same price or more expensive then Adobe's and doesn't really provide any extra features, while not supporting many of Adobe's features. The only value I see in BD is if you want to run on the .NET platform. It probably also helps if you need to use more then 2 GB of ram for your app (Although I'm not sure how well .NET would run with that much memory being used). As far as free CF5, I'm talking about the product Macromedia bought to make CF5 (or 6), which I believe was tagfusion, which was the first, I believe, CF clone that was created in Java. Russ ~| Macromedia ColdFusion MX7 Upgrade to MX7 experience time-saving features, more productivity. http://www.adobe.com/products/coldfusion?sdid=RVJW Archive: http://www.houseoffusion.com/groups/CF-Talk/message.cfm/messageid:280943 Subscription: http://www.houseoffusion.com/groups/CF-Talk/subscribe.cfm Unsubscribe: http://www.houseoffusion.com/cf_lists/unsubscribe.cfm?user=89.70.4
Re: I love CF but it's not fair
I believe TagFusion became BlueDragon. You are also still going to have a 2GB limit on 32-bit whatever technology you use AFAIK. This e-mail is from Reed Exhibitions (Gateway House, 28 The Quadrant, Richmond, Surrey, TW9 1DN, United Kingdom), a division of Reed Business, Registered in England, Number 678540. It contains information which is confidential and may also be privileged. It is for the exclusive use of the intended recipient(s). If you are not the intended recipient(s) please note that any form of distribution, copying or use of this communication or the information in it is strictly prohibited and may be unlawful. If you have received this communication in error please return it to the sender or call our switchboard on +44 (0) 20 89107910. The opinions expressed within this communication are not necessarily those expressed by Reed Exhibitions. Visit our website at http://www.reedexpo.com -Original Message- From: Russ To: CF-Talk Sent: Wed Jun 13 05:30:22 2007 Subject: RE: I love CF but it's not fair Russ wrote: Maybe someone should make a free/open source CF server. That would probably get more people using it. Of course once you've invested this much time into developing a product like that, it's hard not to start charging for it. (Didn't CF5 and BlueDragon start out as free products?) There are free and cheap engines out there. Someone mentioned Smith already, there's also Railo's community edition (and their other editions are very reasonable too). I haven't looked at these yet in depth, but are they compatible enough to be useful? I remember even BD having compatibility issues. BD has a free edition too - I don't recall CF5 ever being free though, unless it was some kind of upgrade promotion when Macromedia launched it post-Allaire? BD has a free edition, but it's pretty much useless as are the rest of their J2EE editions. The free edition doesn't support SSL and is not for commercial use, which makes it useless for most projects. The J2EE version is around the same price or more expensive then Adobe's and doesn't really provide any extra features, while not supporting many of Adobe's features. The only value I see in BD is if you want to run on the .NET platform. It probably also helps if you need to use more then 2 GB of ram for your app (Although I'm not sure how well .NET would run with that much memory being used). As far as free CF5, I'm talking about the product Macromedia bought to make CF5 (or 6), which I believe was tagfusion, which was the first, I believe, CF clone that was created in Java. Russ ~| ColdFusion MX7 and Flex 2 Build sales marketing dashboard RIAâs for your business. Upgrade now http://www.adobe.com/products/coldfusion/flex2?sdid=RVJT Archive: http://www.houseoffusion.com/groups/CF-Talk/message.cfm/messageid:280945 Subscription: http://www.houseoffusion.com/groups/CF-Talk/subscribe.cfm Unsubscribe: http://www.houseoffusion.com/cf_lists/unsubscribe.cfm?user=11502.10531.4
Re: I love CF but it's not fair
On 6/13/07, Gert Franz [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: well you really should take a look at Railo. Railo 2 is MX 7.02 compatible and you could easily use it instead of other engines. Gert, forgive me if I call you on that: Railo doesn't have Flash Forms or event gateways and doesn't run Transfer (which all may not matter to some people but it needs saying). So compatible is open to interpretation there. However, yes, Railo is very impressive and very fast and has a number of interesting features none of the other CF engines has (I blogged several of those features recently) and I'm looking forward to hearing more about Railo at CFUNITED and when Gert comes to speak at BACFUG on July 11th! -- Sean A Corfield -- (904) 302-SEAN An Architect's View -- http://corfield.org/ If you're not annoying somebody, you're not really alive. -- Margaret Atwood ~| Upgrade to Adobe ColdFusion MX7 The most significant release in over 10 years. Upgrade see new features. http://www.adobe.com/products/coldfusion?sdid=RVJR Archive: http://www.houseoffusion.com/groups/CF-Talk/message.cfm/messageid:280946 Subscription: http://www.houseoffusion.com/groups/CF-Talk/subscribe.cfm Unsubscribe: http://www.houseoffusion.com/cf_lists/unsubscribe.cfm?user=89.70.4
Re: I love CF but it's not fair
This could be maybe a project for a usefull site called CFJOBS or CFMLJOBS worldwide. I know there are several job platforms worldwide but no one specific for CFML. It would be something like selecting the area where you are looking for the job (continent, country etc.) and maybe what kind of job you are looking for. Anybody interested? Greetings / Grüsse Gert Franz Customer Care Railo Technologies GmbH [EMAIL PROTECTED] www.railo.ch Join our Mailing List / Treten Sie unserer Mailingliste bei: deutsch: http://de.groups.yahoo.com/group/railo/ english: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/railo_talk/ Ali Majdzadeh schrieb: Hi: I was searching for job offers in Australia in here http://mycareer.com.au/ If you search for CF job offers it brings only 23 jobs which more than half are not even only for CF developers and some are for other languages like PHP or .NET. When I searched for PHP it came out with a few hundreds but with .NET 2334 matching results!!! I love CF but it seems even Python is more popular or at least the search engine comes with better results with it (about 50 offers). I really don't understand why such a powerful and easy langauge should have such a low job offers in Australia! I really don't know about USA but it seems the same thing is true in the USA to. You know I just say it as a theory cause I really love CF and I won't migrate it till and only if Adobe kills the product but it seems if we started with PHP or .Net at the begining now we were more and better employed than now. Please write your opinions. Thanks Benign ~| ColdFusion 8 beta â Build next generation applications today. Free beta download on Labs http://www.adobe.com/cfusion/entitlement/index.cfm?e=labs_adobecf8_beta Archive: http://www.houseoffusion.com/groups/CF-Talk/message.cfm/messageid:280947 Subscription: http://www.houseoffusion.com/groups/CF-Talk/subscribe.cfm Unsubscribe: http://www.houseoffusion.com/cf_lists/unsubscribe.cfm?user=11502.10531.4
Re: I love CF but it's not fair
On 6/13/07, Robertson-Ravo, Neil (RX) [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: You are also still going to have a 2GB limit on 32-bit whatever technology you use AFAIK. Only on Windows. 32-bit *nix allows up to 4Gb for JVM heap I believe... Certainly macromedia.com was running a 3Gb heap on 32-bit Solaris... -- Sean A Corfield -- (904) 302-SEAN An Architect's View -- http://corfield.org/ If you're not annoying somebody, you're not really alive. -- Margaret Atwood ~| ColdFusion MX7 and Flex 2 Build sales marketing dashboard RIAâs for your business. Upgrade now http://www.adobe.com/products/coldfusion/flex2?sdid=RVJT Archive: http://www.houseoffusion.com/groups/CF-Talk/message.cfm/messageid:280948 Subscription: http://www.houseoffusion.com/groups/CF-Talk/subscribe.cfm Unsubscribe: http://www.houseoffusion.com/cf_lists/unsubscribe.cfm?user=89.70.4
Re: I love CF but it's not fair
On 6/13/07, Gert Franz [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: This could be maybe a project for a usefull site called CFJOBS or CFMLJOBS worldwide. http://developercircuit.com/ ? -- Sean A Corfield -- (904) 302-SEAN An Architect's View -- http://corfield.org/ If you're not annoying somebody, you're not really alive. -- Margaret Atwood ~| Create robust enterprise, web RIAs. Upgrade integrate Adobe Coldfusion MX7 with Flex 2 http://www.adobe.com/products/coldfusion/flex2/?sdid=RVJP Archive: http://www.houseoffusion.com/groups/CF-Talk/message.cfm/messageid:280949 Subscription: http://www.houseoffusion.com/groups/CF-Talk/subscribe.cfm Unsubscribe: http://www.houseoffusion.com/cf_lists/unsubscribe.cfm?user=89.70.4
RE: I love CF but it's not fair
Mike, Any chance of you pushing any of these recruiters my way? Andrew Scott Senior Coldfusion Developer Aegeon Pty. Ltd. www.aegeon.com.au Phone:Â +613 Â 8676 4223 Mobile: 0404 998 273 -Original Message- From: Mike Kear [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Wednesday, 13 June 2007 3:41 PM To: CF-Talk Subject: Re: I love CF but it's not fair It's a developers' market in Sydney right now. All the recruiters i speak to tell me they desperately need CF developers. They'll pay top dollar right now too. I reckon the hourly rate for contractors has gone up about $10/hour over what it was a year ago. I have a contract at the moment, although I'm slacking off in the ICU at WIndsor Hospital with cardiac problems, but in the last 4 weeks I would have had maybe 8 calls from recruiters looking for CF developers specifically, and not flinching at all when I tell them that i'm busy and can't look at their opportunity this time, but in any case they'll need to up their offer to get someone good. In fact my mobile rang this morning while a nurse was taking my blood pressure and sticking a needle in my belly, with yet another recruiter looking for a CF contractor in the Sydney CBD. He was prepared to pay about $50/hour so it's a good job. I reckon he'll go higher too. So the answer is like anything else - you gotta put in the legwork. you have to go find people who have jobs to fill. One way is to travel all the job web sites, get yourself on the mailing lists like cfjobs, call the recruiters till your voice is hoarse. But as someone in this thread said earlier - you dont need 2335 jobs, you only need 1. It doesnt matter how many jobs there are, as long as you get one of them. Cheers Mike Kear Windsor, NSW, Australia Adobe Certified Advanced ColdFusion Developer AFP Webworks http://afpwebworks.com ColdFusion, PHP, ASP, ASP.NET hosting from AUD$15/month ~| ColdFusion 8 beta â Build next generation applications today. Free beta download on Labs http://www.adobe.com/cfusion/entitlement/index.cfm?e=labs_adobecf8_beta Archive: http://www.houseoffusion.com/groups/CF-Talk/message.cfm/messageid:280950 Subscription: http://www.houseoffusion.com/groups/CF-Talk/subscribe.cfm Unsubscribe: http://www.houseoffusion.com/cf_lists/unsubscribe.cfm?user=89.70.4
Re: I love CF but it's not fair
Yes, Sean you are right. Compatible in this case is allways an open term. We are working on the implementation of Flash forms at the moment. Railo 2.1 will contain them as well. And of course there are other tags and functionalities missing (like CFREPORT or event gateways). I am in contact with Mark Mandel in order to get Transfer ORM to work with Railo. Railo 2.0 RC2 already works with Transfer, but there is a small class that has to be added to the Railo libs. Greetings / Grüsse Gert Franz Customer Care Railo Technologies GmbH [EMAIL PROTECTED] www.railo.ch Join our Mailing List / Treten Sie unserer Mailingliste bei: deutsch: http://de.groups.yahoo.com/group/railo/ english: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/railo_talk/ Sean Corfield schrieb: On 6/13/07, Gert Franz [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: well you really should take a look at Railo. Railo 2 is MX 7.02 compatible and you could easily use it instead of other engines. Gert, forgive me if I call you on that: Railo doesn't have Flash Forms or event gateways and doesn't run Transfer (which all may not matter to some people but it needs saying). So compatible is open to interpretation there. However, yes, Railo is very impressive and very fast and has a number of interesting features none of the other CF engines has (I blogged several of those features recently) and I'm looking forward to hearing more about Railo at CFUNITED and when Gert comes to speak at BACFUG on July 11th! ~| Create Web Applications With ColdFusion MX7 Flex 2. Build powerful, scalable RIAs. Free Trial http://www.adobe.com/products/coldfusion/flex2/?sdid=RVJS Archive: http://www.houseoffusion.com/groups/CF-Talk/message.cfm/messageid:280951 Subscription: http://www.houseoffusion.com/groups/CF-Talk/subscribe.cfm Unsubscribe: http://www.houseoffusion.com/cf_lists/unsubscribe.cfm?user=89.70.4
Re: I love CF but it's not fair
Yeah, sorry I forget that not everyone runs Windows :-) This e-mail is from Reed Exhibitions (Gateway House, 28 The Quadrant, Richmond, Surrey, TW9 1DN, United Kingdom), a division of Reed Business, Registered in England, Number 678540. It contains information which is confidential and may also be privileged. It is for the exclusive use of the intended recipient(s). If you are not the intended recipient(s) please note that any form of distribution, copying or use of this communication or the information in it is strictly prohibited and may be unlawful. If you have received this communication in error please return it to the sender or call our switchboard on +44 (0) 20 89107910. The opinions expressed within this communication are not necessarily those expressed by Reed Exhibitions. Visit our website at http://www.reedexpo.com -Original Message- From: Sean Corfield To: CF-Talk Sent: Wed Jun 13 08:37:15 2007 Subject: Re: I love CF but it's not fair On 6/13/07, Robertson-Ravo, Neil (RX) [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: You are also still going to have a 2GB limit on 32-bit whatever technology you use AFAIK. Only on Windows. 32-bit *nix allows up to 4Gb for JVM heap I believe... Certainly macromedia.com was running a 3Gb heap on 32-bit Solaris... -- Sean A Corfield -- (904) 302-SEAN An Architect's View -- http://corfield.org/ If you're not annoying somebody, you're not really alive. -- Margaret Atwood ~| ColdFusion MX7 by Adobe® Dyncamically transform webcontent into Adobe PDF with new ColdFusion MX7. Free Trial. http://www.adobe.com/products/coldfusion?sdid=RVJV Archive: http://www.houseoffusion.com/groups/CF-Talk/message.cfm/messageid:280954 Subscription: http://www.houseoffusion.com/groups/CF-Talk/subscribe.cfm Unsubscribe: http://www.houseoffusion.com/cf_lists/unsubscribe.cfm?user=11502.10531.4
RE: I love CF but it's not fair
Except with the Windows Server (2008) or whatever they call it. Vista basic, premium can handle 4gig and Busines, Ultimate and up can Handle a max from 8gig to 128gig. Not sure what the new Windows Server will be able to see. Andrew Scott Senior Coldfusion Developer Aegeon Pty. Ltd. www.aegeon.com.au Phone: +613 8676 4223 Mobile: 0404 998 273 -Original Message- From: Robertson-Ravo, Neil (RX) [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Wednesday, 13 June 2007 5:25 PM To: CF-Talk Subject: Re: I love CF but it's not fair I believe TagFusion became BlueDragon. You are also still going to have a 2GB limit on 32-bit whatever technology you use AFAIK. This e-mail is from Reed Exhibitions (Gateway House, 28 The Quadrant, Richmond, Surrey, TW9 1DN, United Kingdom), a division of Reed Business, Registered in England, Number 678540. It contains information which is confidential and may also be privileged. It is for the exclusive use of the intended recipient(s). If you are not the intended recipient(s) please note that any form of distribution, copying or use of this communication or the information in it is strictly prohibited and may be unlawful. If you have received this communication in error please return it to the sender or call our switchboard on +44 (0) 20 89107910. The opinions expressed within this communication are not necessarily those expressed by Reed Exhibitions. Visit our website at http://www.reedexpo.com -Original Message- From: Russ To: CF-Talk Sent: Wed Jun 13 05:30:22 2007 Subject: RE: I love CF but it's not fair Russ wrote: Maybe someone should make a free/open source CF server. That would probably get more people using it. Of course once you've invested this much time into developing a product like that, it's hard not to start charging for it. (Didn't CF5 and BlueDragon start out as free products?) There are free and cheap engines out there. Someone mentioned Smith already, there's also Railo's community edition (and their other editions are very reasonable too). I haven't looked at these yet in depth, but are they compatible enough to be useful? I remember even BD having compatibility issues. BD has a free edition too - I don't recall CF5 ever being free though, unless it was some kind of upgrade promotion when Macromedia launched it post-Allaire? BD has a free edition, but it's pretty much useless as are the rest of their J2EE editions. The free edition doesn't support SSL and is not for commercial use, which makes it useless for most projects. The J2EE version is around the same price or more expensive then Adobe's and doesn't really provide any extra features, while not supporting many of Adobe's features. The only value I see in BD is if you want to run on the .NET platform. It probably also helps if you need to use more then 2 GB of ram for your app (Although I'm not sure how well .NET would run with that much memory being used). As far as free CF5, I'm talking about the product Macromedia bought to make CF5 (or 6), which I believe was tagfusion, which was the first, I believe, CF clone that was created in Java. Russ ~| Create Web Applications With ColdFusion MX7 Flex 2. Build powerful, scalable RIAs. Free Trial http://www.adobe.com/products/coldfusion/flex2/?sdid=RVJS Archive: http://www.houseoffusion.com/groups/CF-Talk/message.cfm/messageid:280952 Subscription: http://www.houseoffusion.com/groups/CF-Talk/subscribe.cfm Unsubscribe: http://www.houseoffusion.com/cf_lists/unsubscribe.cfm?user=11502.10531.4
Re: I love CF but it's not fair
Solaris yes, Linux no. Linux splits the memory into two 2GB lots (like Windows does without PAE) so a process can only get 2GB max. We currently run a 2.5GB heap on Solaris with a 384MB permspace, which means we're almost at 3GB too; Solaris is the winner in big JVMs. On 6/13/07, Sean Corfield [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: On 6/13/07, Robertson-Ravo, Neil (RX) [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: You are also still going to have a 2GB limit on 32-bit whatever technology you use AFAIK. Only on Windows. 32-bit *nix allows up to 4Gb for JVM heap I believe... Certainly macromedia.com was running a 3Gb heap on 32-bit Solaris... -- Sean A Corfield -- (904) 302-SEAN An Architect's View -- http://corfield.org/ -- mxAjax / CFAjax docs and other useful articles: http://www.bifrost.com.au/blog/ ~| Create Web Applications With ColdFusion MX7 Flex 2. Build powerful, scalable RIAs. Free Trial http://www.adobe.com/products/coldfusion/flex2/?sdid=RVJS Archive: http://www.houseoffusion.com/groups/CF-Talk/message.cfm/messageid:280953 Subscription: http://www.houseoffusion.com/groups/CF-Talk/subscribe.cfm Unsubscribe: http://www.houseoffusion.com/cf_lists/unsubscribe.cfm?user=89.70.4
Re: I love CF but it's not fair
Of course, although in the last case, they were looking for someone on site in the Sydney CBD so that might not have worked out anyway. Cheers Mike Kear Windsor, NSW, Australia Adobe Certified Advanced ColdFusion Developer AFP Webworks http://afpwebworks.com ColdFusion, PHP, ASP, ASP.NET hosting from AUD$15/month On 6/13/07, Andrew Scott [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Mike, Any chance of you pushing any of these recruiters my way? Andrew Scott Senior Coldfusion Developer Aegeon Pty. Ltd. www.aegeon.com.au Phone:+613 8676 4223 Mobile: 0404 998 273 ~| CF 8 â Scorpio beta now available, easily build great internet experiences â Try it now on Labs http://www.adobe.com/cfusion/entitlement/index.cfm?e=labs_adobecf8_beta Archive: http://www.houseoffusion.com/groups/CF-Talk/message.cfm/messageid:280955 Subscription: http://www.houseoffusion.com/groups/CF-Talk/subscribe.cfm Unsubscribe: http://www.houseoffusion.com/cf_lists/unsubscribe.cfm?user=89.70.4
Re: I love CF but it's not fair
Gert Franz wrote: Yes, Sean you are right. Compatible in this case is allways an open term. We are working on the implementation of Flash forms at the why bother? if railo can talk to flex/apollo, more bang for your buck. ~| Macromedia ColdFusion MX7 Upgrade to MX7 experience time-saving features, more productivity. http://www.adobe.com/products/coldfusion?sdid=RVJW Archive: http://www.houseoffusion.com/groups/CF-Talk/message.cfm/messageid:280971 Subscription: http://www.houseoffusion.com/groups/CF-Talk/subscribe.cfm Unsubscribe: http://www.houseoffusion.com/cf_lists/unsubscribe.cfm?user=11502.10531.4
Re: I love CF but it's not fair
On 6/13/07, Gert Franz [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: I am in contact with Mark Mandel in order to get Transfer ORM to work with Railo. Railo 2.0 RC2 already works with Transfer, but there is a small class that has to be added to the Railo libs. Nice work!! -- Sean A Corfield -- (904) 302-SEAN An Architect's View -- http://corfield.org/ If you're not annoying somebody, you're not really alive. -- Margaret Atwood ~| Macromedia ColdFusion MX7 Upgrade to MX7 experience time-saving features, more productivity. http://www.adobe.com/products/coldfusion?sdid=RVJW Archive: http://www.houseoffusion.com/groups/CF-Talk/message.cfm/messageid:280993 Subscription: http://www.houseoffusion.com/groups/CF-Talk/subscribe.cfm Unsubscribe: http://www.houseoffusion.com/cf_lists/unsubscribe.cfm?user=89.70.4
Re: I love CF but it's not fair
Thanks Sean... At the moment we just have a lot of documentation work to do. In addition we will create downloadable Railix versions with all major frameworks like Model Glue, Fusebox, MachII, Transfer, Coldspring, Coldbox, Reactor, and several free applications like the ones of Ray Camden or Andrea Veggani and many more. But it takes a little time. See you in two weeks in Washington ... Gert Sean Corfield schrieb: On 6/13/07, Gert Franz [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: I am in contact with Mark Mandel in order to get Transfer ORM to work with Railo. Railo 2.0 RC2 already works with Transfer, but there is a small class that has to be added to the Railo libs. Nice work!! ~| Upgrade to Adobe ColdFusion MX7 The most significant release in over 10 years. Upgrade see new features. http://www.adobe.com/products/coldfusion?sdid=RVJR Archive: http://www.houseoffusion.com/groups/CF-Talk/message.cfm/messageid:280998 Subscription: http://www.houseoffusion.com/groups/CF-Talk/subscribe.cfm Unsubscribe: http://www.houseoffusion.com/cf_lists/unsubscribe.cfm?user=11502.10531.4
Re: I love CF but it's not fair
As soon as Railo 2.0 RC2 is out we will create a version for downloading Railix with Transfer ORM and some examples... Just follow our blog at www.railo.ch/blog (or meet us in the US) Gert John Allen schrieb: Railo running transfer would be GREAT! On 6/13/07, Sean Corfield [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: On 6/13/07, Gert Franz [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: I am in contact with Mark Mandel in order to get Transfer ORM to work with Railo. Railo 2.0 RC2 already works with Transfer, but there is a small class that has to be added to the Railo libs. Nice work!! -- Sean A Corfield -- (904) 302-SEAN An Architect's View -- http://corfield.org/ If you're not annoying somebody, you're not really alive. -- Margaret Atwood ~| Upgrade to Adobe ColdFusion MX7 Experience Flex 2 MX7 integration create powerful cross-platform RIAs http://www.adobe.com/products/coldfusion/flex2/?sdid=RVJQ Archive: http://www.houseoffusion.com/groups/CF-Talk/message.cfm/messageid:281008 Subscription: http://www.houseoffusion.com/groups/CF-Talk/subscribe.cfm Unsubscribe: http://www.houseoffusion.com/cf_lists/unsubscribe.cfm?user=11502.10531.4
Re: I love CF but it's not fair
Railo running transfer would be GREAT! On 6/13/07, Sean Corfield [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: On 6/13/07, Gert Franz [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: I am in contact with Mark Mandel in order to get Transfer ORM to work with Railo. Railo 2.0 RC2 already works with Transfer, but there is a small class that has to be added to the Railo libs. Nice work!! -- Sean A Corfield -- (904) 302-SEAN An Architect's View -- http://corfield.org/ If you're not annoying somebody, you're not really alive. -- Margaret Atwood ~| Create Web Applications With ColdFusion MX7 Flex 2. Build powerful, scalable RIAs. Free Trial http://www.adobe.com/products/coldfusion/flex2/?sdid=RVJS Archive: http://www.houseoffusion.com/groups/CF-Talk/message.cfm/messageid:281002 Subscription: http://www.houseoffusion.com/groups/CF-Talk/subscribe.cfm Unsubscribe: http://www.houseoffusion.com/cf_lists/unsubscribe.cfm?user=89.70.4
Re: I love CF but it's not fair
Jerry, This is absolutely one of the best replies I've ever read. Cudos for nailing it. :-) Matt On 6/12/07, Jerry Johnson [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: There are also a lot of jobs for McDonalds late shift workers. =) My current programming job is 95% coldfusion, and the ad was for a perl developer. My last job was 85% coldfusion, 15% Director and the ad was for web developer My previous job was for Foxpro Developer, and it was 25% foxpro, 50% pl/sql and oracle, and a mix of documentum, installer scripts, netware vlms, etc. Many places that are hiring have no idea how to classify their programming needs. Even at this job, the 95% coldfusion is just the main application server environment. All day today has been SQL Server, Javascript, HTML, CSS, some design work, and some ia specing. I have found that the way the job description reads, and the technologies described, is usually an indicator of the type of development environment, the management understanding of technology, and the development methodology as much as it is an actual request for technology proficiency. A job that specs .NET and all MS technologies is often a very rigid, MS dominated, corporate environment that values certifications more than seat time and documentation over creativity. Same is true for PHP/LAMP/Open Source development houses. The choice of these technologies can be a huge clue into the budget priorities of a group, which will often affect pay scales and any outlay of real dollars (sometimes penny smart and pound foolish). Not always, of course, but often enough in my life to have a question going in. Some thoughts from my head. Jerry On 6/12/07, Ali Majdzadeh [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Hi: I was searching for job offers in Australia in here http://mycareer.com.au/ If you search for CF job offers it brings only 23 jobs which more than half are not even only for CF developers and some are for other languages like PHP or .NET. When I searched for PHP it came out with a few hundreds but with .NET 2334 matching results!!! I love CF but it seems even Python is more popular or at least the search engine comes with better results with it (about 50 offers). I really don't understand why such a powerful and easy langauge should have such a low job offers in Australia! I really don't know about USA but it seems the same thing is true in the USA to. You know I just say it as a theory cause I really love CF and I won't migrate it till and only if Adobe kills the product but it seems if we started with PHP or .Net at the begining now we were more and better employed than now. Please write your opinions. ~| Create Web Applications With ColdFusion MX7 Flex 2. Build powerful, scalable RIAs. Free Trial http://www.adobe.com/products/coldfusion/flex2/?sdid=RVJS Archive: http://www.houseoffusion.com/groups/CF-Talk/message.cfm/messageid:281050 Subscription: http://www.houseoffusion.com/groups/CF-Talk/subscribe.cfm Unsubscribe: http://www.houseoffusion.com/cf_lists/unsubscribe.cfm?user=89.70.4
Re: I love CF but it's not fair
On 6/13/07, Ariel Jakobovits wrote: No, s/he is not, because web development is fun and CF web development is the best. Ironically, that's the crux of the matter. Add in some swell people, and it takes a good bit of BS to make my buddy feel retarded. Pretty analogous. BS happens tho, so, my buddy may just grab the fam and head Down Under. Heh. down. We're on a freaking globe, right? Does the water really flow backwards around the drain on that side? I'll have to see that to believe it... =] (double ha! BACKWARDS Who's to say?) Heh... he'll probably just stick around here and have a wonderful life... yes, I'd have to agree... CF is swell! Er, with United coming up, perhaps I should try to psyche the crowd up a bit... YEAH!!! WOOTERS!!! CF ALL THE WAY BABY!!! 8 IS A SPEED DEAMON!!! (FLEX 'N STUFF IS KEWL TOO!!!) Yeah... much better. =] ~| Upgrade to Adobe ColdFusion MX7 Experience Flex 2 MX7 integration create powerful cross-platform RIAs http://www.adobe.com/products/coldfusion/flex2/?sdid=RVJQ Archive: http://www.houseoffusion.com/groups/CF-Talk/message.cfm/messageid:281080 Subscription: http://www.houseoffusion.com/groups/CF-Talk/subscribe.cfm Unsubscribe: http://www.houseoffusion.com/cf_lists/unsubscribe.cfm?user=11502.10531.4
Re: I love CF but it's not fair
Hmmm... OK Are you on drugs? :-p .. This e-mail is from Reed Exhibitions (Gateway House, 28 The Quadrant, Richmond, Surrey, TW9 1DN, United Kingdom), a division of Reed Business, Registered in England, Number 678540. It contains information which is confidential and may also be privileged. It is for the exclusive use of the intended recipient(s). If you are not the intended recipient(s) please note that any form of distribution, copying or use of this communication or the information in it is strictly prohibited and may be unlawful. If you have received this communication in error please return it to the sender or call our switchboard on +44 (0) 20 89107910. The opinions expressed within this communication are not necessarily those expressed by Reed Exhibitions. Visit our website at http://www.reedexpo.com -Original Message- From: Dinner To: CF-Talk Sent: Wed Jun 13 22:59:51 2007 Subject: Re: I love CF but it's not fair On 6/13/07, Ariel Jakobovits wrote: No, s/he is not, because web development is fun and CF web development is the best. Ironically, that's the crux of the matter. Add in some swell people, and it takes a good bit of BS to make my buddy feel retarded. Pretty analogous. BS happens tho, so, my buddy may just grab the fam and head Down Under. Heh. down. We're on a freaking globe, right? Does the water really flow backwards around the drain on that side? I'll have to see that to believe it... =] (double ha! BACKWARDS Who's to say?) Heh... he'll probably just stick around here and have a wonderful life... yes, I'd have to agree... CF is swell! Er, with United coming up, perhaps I should try to psyche the crowd up a bit... YEAH!!! WOOTERS!!! CF ALL THE WAY BABY!!! 8 IS A SPEED DEAMON!!! (FLEX 'N STUFF IS KEWL TOO!!!) Yeah... much better. =] ~| Deploy Web Applications Quickly across the enterprise with ColdFusion MX7 Flex 2 Free Trial http://www.adobe.com/products/coldfusion/flex2/?sdid=RVJU Archive: http://www.houseoffusion.com/groups/CF-Talk/message.cfm/messageid:281082 Subscription: http://www.houseoffusion.com/groups/CF-Talk/subscribe.cfm Unsubscribe: http://www.houseoffusion.com/cf_lists/unsubscribe.cfm?user=11502.10531.4
Re: I love CF but it's not fair
Hey, I resemble that comment! On 6/13/07, Neil wrote: Hmmm... OK Are you on drugs? :-p ~| ColdFusion 8 beta â Build next generation applications today. Free beta download on Labs http://www.adobe.com/cfusion/entitlement/index.cfm?e=labs_adobecf8_beta Archive: http://www.houseoffusion.com/groups/CF-Talk/message.cfm/messageid:281089 Subscription: http://www.houseoffusion.com/groups/CF-Talk/subscribe.cfm Unsubscribe: http://www.houseoffusion.com/cf_lists/unsubscribe.cfm?user=11502.10531.4
I love CF but it's not fair
Hi: I was searching for job offers in Australia in here http://mycareer.com.au/ If you search for CF job offers it brings only 23 jobs which more than half are not even only for CF developers and some are for other languages like PHP or .NET. When I searched for PHP it came out with a few hundreds but with .NET 2334 matching results!!! I love CF but it seems even Python is more popular or at least the search engine comes with better results with it (about 50 offers). I really don't understand why such a powerful and easy langauge should have such a low job offers in Australia! I really don't know about USA but it seems the same thing is true in the USA to. You know I just say it as a theory cause I really love CF and I won't migrate it till and only if Adobe kills the product but it seems if we started with PHP or .Net at the begining now we were more and better employed than now. Please write your opinions. Thanks Benign ~| Create Web Applications With ColdFusion MX7 Flex 2. Build powerful, scalable RIAs. Free Trial http://www.adobe.com/products/coldfusion/flex2/?sdid=RVJS Archive: http://www.houseoffusion.com/groups/CF-Talk/message.cfm/messageid:280857 Subscription: http://www.houseoffusion.com/groups/CF-Talk/subscribe.cfm Unsubscribe: http://www.houseoffusion.com/cf_lists/unsubscribe.cfm?user=11502.10531.4
RE: I love CF but it's not fair
..NET is popular and other languages are free. CF won't go away (I hope) but it'll probably never overtake other languages without some serious marketing pushes. _ Jake Churchill CF Webtools 11204 Davenport, Ste. 200b Omaha, NE 68154 http://www.cfwebtools.com 402-408-3733 x103 -Original Message- From: Ali Majdzadeh [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Tuesday, June 12, 2007 3:53 PM To: CF-Talk Subject: I love CF but it's not fair Hi: I was searching for job offers in Australia in here http://mycareer.com.au/ If you search for CF job offers it brings only 23 jobs which more than half are not even only for CF developers and some are for other languages like PHP or .NET. When I searched for PHP it came out with a few hundreds but with .NET 2334 matching results!!! I love CF but it seems even Python is more popular or at least the search engine comes with better results with it (about 50 offers). I really don't understand why such a powerful and easy langauge should have such a low job offers in Australia! I really don't know about USA but it seems the same thing is true in the USA to. You know I just say it as a theory cause I really love CF and I won't migrate it till and only if Adobe kills the product but it seems if we started with PHP or .Net at the begining now we were more and better employed than now. Please write your opinions. Thanks Benign ~| Create robust enterprise, web RIAs. Upgrade integrate Adobe Coldfusion MX7 with Flex 2 http://www.adobe.com/products/coldfusion/flex2/?sdid=RVJP Archive: http://www.houseoffusion.com/groups/CF-Talk/message.cfm/messageid:280859 Subscription: http://www.houseoffusion.com/groups/CF-Talk/subscribe.cfm Unsubscribe: http://www.houseoffusion.com/cf_lists/unsubscribe.cfm?user=89.70.4
RE: I love CF but it's not fair
Maybe someone should make a free/open source CF server. That would probably get more people using it. Of course once you've invested this much time into developing a product like that, it's hard not to start charging for it. (Didn't CF5 and BlueDragon start out as free products?) Russ -Original Message- From: Jake Churchill [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Tuesday, June 12, 2007 5:07 PM To: CF-Talk Subject: RE: I love CF but it's not fair ..NET is popular and other languages are free. CF won't go away (I hope) but it'll probably never overtake other languages without some serious marketing pushes. _ Jake Churchill CF Webtools 11204 Davenport, Ste. 200b Omaha, NE 68154 http://www.cfwebtools.com 402-408-3733 x103 -Original Message- From: Ali Majdzadeh [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Tuesday, June 12, 2007 3:53 PM To: CF-Talk Subject: I love CF but it's not fair Hi: I was searching for job offers in Australia in here http://mycareer.com.au/ If you search for CF job offers it brings only 23 jobs which more than half are not even only for CF developers and some are for other languages like PHP or .NET. When I searched for PHP it came out with a few hundreds but with .NET 2334 matching results!!! I love CF but it seems even Python is more popular or at least the search engine comes with better results with it (about 50 offers). I really don't understand why such a powerful and easy langauge should have such a low job offers in Australia! I really don't know about USA but it seems the same thing is true in the USA to. You know I just say it as a theory cause I really love CF and I won't migrate it till and only if Adobe kills the product but it seems if we started with PHP or .Net at the begining now we were more and better employed than now. Please write your opinions. Thanks Benign ~| Upgrade to Adobe ColdFusion MX7 The most significant release in over 10 years. Upgrade see new features. http://www.adobe.com/products/coldfusion?sdid=RVJR Archive: http://www.houseoffusion.com/groups/CF-Talk/message.cfm/messageid:280862 Subscription: http://www.houseoffusion.com/groups/CF-Talk/subscribe.cfm Unsubscribe: http://www.houseoffusion.com/cf_lists/unsubscribe.cfm?user=89.70.4
RE: I love CF but it's not fair
Check out the smith project. http://www.smithproject.org/ ~Brad -Original Message- From: Russ [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Tuesday, June 12, 2007 4:12 PM To: CF-Talk Subject: RE: I love CF but it's not fair Maybe someone should make a free/open source CF server. That would probably get more people using it. Of course once you've invested this much time into developing a product like that, it's hard not to start charging for it. (Didn't CF5 and BlueDragon start out as free products?) Russ ~| Upgrade to Adobe ColdFusion MX7 Experience Flex 2 MX7 integration create powerful cross-platform RIAs http://www.adobe.com/products/coldfusion/flex2/?sdid=RVJQ Archive: http://www.houseoffusion.com/groups/CF-Talk/message.cfm/messageid:280865 Subscription: http://www.houseoffusion.com/groups/CF-Talk/subscribe.cfm Unsubscribe: http://www.houseoffusion.com/cf_lists/unsubscribe.cfm?user=11502.10531.4
RE: I love CF but it's not fair
CF alternatives (some free, some open source) - Blue Dragon - Railo - Smith - IgniteFusion - Coral Web Builder -Original Message- From: Russ [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Tuesday, June 12, 2007 4:12 PM To: CF-Talk Subject: RE: I love CF but it's not fair Maybe someone should make a free/open source CF server. That would probably get more people using it. Of course once you've invested this much time into developing a product like that, it's hard not to start charging for it. (Didn't CF5 and BlueDragon start out as free products?) Russ -Original Message- From: Jake Churchill [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Tuesday, June 12, 2007 5:07 PM To: CF-Talk Subject: RE: I love CF but it's not fair ..NET is popular and other languages are free. CF won't go away (I hope) but it'll probably never overtake other languages without some serious marketing pushes. _ Jake Churchill CF Webtools 11204 Davenport, Ste. 200b Omaha, NE 68154 http://www.cfwebtools.com 402-408-3733 x103 -Original Message- From: Ali Majdzadeh [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Tuesday, June 12, 2007 3:53 PM To: CF-Talk Subject: I love CF but it's not fair Hi: I was searching for job offers in Australia in here http://mycareer.com.au/ If you search for CF job offers it brings only 23 jobs which more than half are not even only for CF developers and some are for other languages like PHP or .NET. When I searched for PHP it came out with a few hundreds but with .NET 2334 matching results!!! I love CF but it seems even Python is more popular or at least the search engine comes with better results with it (about 50 offers). I really don't understand why such a powerful and easy langauge should have such a low job offers in Australia! I really don't know about USA but it seems the same thing is true in the USA to. You know I just say it as a theory cause I really love CF and I won't migrate it till and only if Adobe kills the product but it seems if we started with PHP or .Net at the begining now we were more and better employed than now. Please write your opinions. Thanks Benign ~| ColdFusion MX7 by Adobe® Dyncamically transform webcontent into Adobe PDF with new ColdFusion MX7. Free Trial. http://www.adobe.com/products/coldfusion?sdid=RVJV Archive: http://www.houseoffusion.com/groups/CF-Talk/message.cfm/messageid:280866 Subscription: http://www.houseoffusion.com/groups/CF-Talk/subscribe.cfm Unsubscribe: http://www.houseoffusion.com/cf_lists/unsubscribe.cfm?user=89.70.4
Re: I love CF but it's not fair
Russ wrote: Maybe someone should make a free/open source CF server. That would probably get more people using it. Of course once you've invested this much time into developing a product like that, it's hard not to start charging for it. (Didn't CF5 and BlueDragon start out as free products?) There are free and cheap engines out there. Someone mentioned Smith already, there's also Railo's community edition (and their other editions are very reasonable too). BD has a free edition too - I don't recall CF5 ever being free though, unless it was some kind of upgrade promotion when Macromedia launched it post-Allaire? ~| Upgrade to Adobe ColdFusion MX7 The most significant release in over 10 years. Upgrade see new features. http://www.adobe.com/products/coldfusion?sdid=RVJR Archive: http://www.houseoffusion.com/groups/CF-Talk/message.cfm/messageid:280868 Subscription: http://www.houseoffusion.com/groups/CF-Talk/subscribe.cfm Unsubscribe: http://www.houseoffusion.com/cf_lists/unsubscribe.cfm?user=89.70.4
RE: I love CF but it's not fair
Search results can be misleading. I have observed that job posts often have a laundry list of technologies/skills most of which are 'nice to have' but not critical to the job. So a listing might say they want someone with Java, .NET, Python, ASP classic and Oracle, but what they really want is a Java programmer who might have dabbled in other things. In contrast, if a job listing mentions ColdFusion it is most likely the core skill required, not just part of a meaningless list. Thus there are fewer job listings mentioning CF, but at least you know that the ones that do mention CF actually DO want someone with a CF background. -Original Message- From: Ali Majdzadeh [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Tuesday, June 12, 2007 3:53 PM To: CF-Talk Subject: I love CF but it's not fair Hi: I was searching for job offers in Australia in here http://mycareer.com.au/ If you search for CF job offers it brings only 23 jobs which more than half are not even only for CF developers and some are for other languages like PHP or .NET. When I searched for PHP it came out with a few hundreds but with .NET 2334 matching results!!! I love CF but it seems even Python is more popular or at least the search engine comes with better results with it (about 50 offers). I really don't understand why such a powerful and easy langauge should have such a low job offers in Australia! I really don't know about USA but it seems the same thing is true in the USA to. You know I just say it as a theory cause I really love CF and I won't migrate it till and only if Adobe kills the product but it seems if we started with PHP or .Net at the begining now we were more and better employed than now. Please write your opinions. Thanks Benign ~| Create robust enterprise, web RIAs. Upgrade integrate Adobe Coldfusion MX7 with Flex 2 http://www.adobe.com/products/coldfusion/flex2/?sdid=RVJP Archive: http://www.houseoffusion.com/groups/CF-Talk/message.cfm/messageid:280869 Subscription: http://www.houseoffusion.com/groups/CF-Talk/subscribe.cfm Unsubscribe: http://www.houseoffusion.com/cf_lists/unsubscribe.cfm?user=11502.10531.4
Re: I love CF but it's not fair
There are also a lot of jobs for McDonalds late shift workers. =) My current programming job is 95% coldfusion, and the ad was for a perl developer. My last job was 85% coldfusion, 15% Director and the ad was for web developer My previous job was for Foxpro Developer, and it was 25% foxpro, 50% pl/sql and oracle, and a mix of documentum, installer scripts, netware vlms, etc. Many places that are hiring have no idea how to classify their programming needs. Even at this job, the 95% coldfusion is just the main application server environment. All day today has been SQL Server, Javascript, HTML, CSS, some design work, and some ia specing. I have found that the way the job description reads, and the technologies described, is usually an indicator of the type of development environment, the management understanding of technology, and the development methodology as much as it is an actual request for technology proficiency. A job that specs .NET and all MS technologies is often a very rigid, MS dominated, corporate environment that values certifications more than seat time and documentation over creativity. Same is true for PHP/LAMP/Open Source development houses. The choice of these technologies can be a huge clue into the budget priorities of a group, which will often affect pay scales and any outlay of real dollars (sometimes penny smart and pound foolish). Not always, of course, but often enough in my life to have a question going in. Some thoughts from my head. Jerry On 6/12/07, Ali Majdzadeh [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Hi: I was searching for job offers in Australia in here http://mycareer.com.au/ If you search for CF job offers it brings only 23 jobs which more than half are not even only for CF developers and some are for other languages like PHP or .NET. When I searched for PHP it came out with a few hundreds but with .NET 2334 matching results!!! I love CF but it seems even Python is more popular or at least the search engine comes with better results with it (about 50 offers). I really don't understand why such a powerful and easy langauge should have such a low job offers in Australia! I really don't know about USA but it seems the same thing is true in the USA to. You know I just say it as a theory cause I really love CF and I won't migrate it till and only if Adobe kills the product but it seems if we started with PHP or .Net at the begining now we were more and better employed than now. Please write your opinions. ~| Macromedia ColdFusion MX7 Upgrade to MX7 experience time-saving features, more productivity. http://www.adobe.com/products/coldfusion?sdid=RVJW Archive: http://www.houseoffusion.com/groups/CF-Talk/message.cfm/messageid:280873 Subscription: http://www.houseoffusion.com/groups/CF-Talk/subscribe.cfm Unsubscribe: http://www.houseoffusion.com/cf_lists/unsubscribe.cfm?user=11502.10531.4
Re: I love CF but it's not fair
On 6/12/07, David Low wrote: I don't recall CF5 ever being free though, There was Cold Fusion Express. It was a chopped-up v4.x IIRC. Crippled and didn't last long. -- [EMAIL PROTECTED] Janitor, The Robertson Team mysecretbase.com ~| ColdFusion MX7 and Flex 2 Build sales marketing dashboard RIAâs for your business. Upgrade now http://www.adobe.com/products/coldfusion/flex2?sdid=RVJT Archive: http://www.houseoffusion.com/groups/CF-Talk/message.cfm/messageid:280874 Subscription: http://www.houseoffusion.com/groups/CF-Talk/subscribe.cfm Unsubscribe: http://www.houseoffusion.com/cf_lists/unsubscribe.cfm?user=89.70.4
Re: I love CF but it's not fair
On 6/12/07, Ali Majdzadeh [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: I was searching for job offers in Australia in here http://mycareer.com.au/ If you search for CF job offers it brings only 23 jobs Plus another 16 for Cold Fusion. However, your point is well taken. I hear lots of Australians say that the CF job market seems very slow down under. The job market for CFers is much, much better here in the US - even the relatively new Developer Center job widget shows 29 CF jobs and that's just a small, targeted portion of the overall job market here. That's not much consolation for you, I know, but ColdFusion's success must look very dubious from an Australian's viewpoint and that does not reflect it's success elsewhere in the world... -- Sean A Corfield -- (904) 302-SEAN An Architect's View -- http://corfield.org/ If you're not annoying somebody, you're not really alive. -- Margaret Atwood ~| Upgrade to Adobe ColdFusion MX7 The most significant release in over 10 years. Upgrade see new features. http://www.adobe.com/products/coldfusion?sdid=RVJR Archive: http://www.houseoffusion.com/groups/CF-Talk/message.cfm/messageid:280875 Subscription: http://www.houseoffusion.com/groups/CF-Talk/subscribe.cfm Unsubscribe: http://www.houseoffusion.com/cf_lists/unsubscribe.cfm?user=11502.10531.4
Re: I love CF but it's not fair
Another thought: You don't need 2334 jobs. You need one job (ok, maybe 2) Hopefully it's the quality not the quantity that matters. On 6/12/07, Ali Majdzadeh [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Hi: I was searching for job offers in Australia in here http://mycareer.com.au/ If you search for CF job offers it brings only 23 jobs which more than half are not even only for CF developers and some are for other languages like PHP or .NET. When I searched for PHP it came out with a few hundreds but with .NET 2334 matching results!!! I love CF but it seems even Python is more popular or at least the search engine comes with better results with it (about 50 offers). I really don't understand why such a powerful and easy langauge should have such a low job offers in Australia! I really don't know about USA but it seems the same thing is true in the USA to. You know I just say it as a theory cause I really love CF and I won't migrate it till and only if Adobe kills the product but it seems if we started with PHP or .Net at the begining now we were more and better employed than now. ~| Deploy Web Applications Quickly across the enterprise with ColdFusion MX7 Flex 2 Free Trial http://www.adobe.com/products/coldfusion/flex2/?sdid=RVJU Archive: http://www.houseoffusion.com/groups/CF-Talk/message.cfm/messageid:280876 Subscription: http://www.houseoffusion.com/groups/CF-Talk/subscribe.cfm Unsubscribe: http://www.houseoffusion.com/cf_lists/unsubscribe.cfm?user=11502.10531.4
Re: I love CF but it's not fair
Another thought: You don't need 2334 jobs. You need one job (ok, maybe 2) Hopefully it's the quality not the quantity that matters. Sure but when there are less options to choose it means many may not match your needs. The main problem will be location. But when there are 2334 job offers the chance for the proper one will be much more than the 23. Farcry is an Australian CMS and a famous one it seems. That's why I thought maybe Australian CF developers have more popularity than the US developers but it seems NO WAY! Thanks Benign ~| ColdFusion 8 beta â Build next generation applications today. Free beta download on Labs http://www.adobe.com/cfusion/entitlement/index.cfm?e=labs_adobecf8_beta Archive: http://www.houseoffusion.com/groups/CF-Talk/message.cfm/messageid:280886 Subscription: http://www.houseoffusion.com/groups/CF-Talk/subscribe.cfm Unsubscribe: http://www.houseoffusion.com/cf_lists/unsubscribe.cfm?user=89.70.4
RE: I love CF but it's not fair
-Original Message- From: Matt Robertson [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Tuesday, June 12, 2007 5:34 PM To: CF-Talk Subject: Re: I love CF but it's not fair On 6/12/07, David Low wrote: I don't recall CF5 ever being free though, I remember there was TagFusion or something like that. Basically was going to be a free CF implementation in Java. I believe CF bought it and used it to create CF 5 (or 6). I'm not 100% on this, but I think that's what happened. ~| Create Web Applications With ColdFusion MX7 Flex 2. Build powerful, scalable RIAs. Free Trial http://www.adobe.com/products/coldfusion/flex2/?sdid=RVJS Archive: http://www.houseoffusion.com/groups/CF-Talk/message.cfm/messageid:280879 Subscription: http://www.houseoffusion.com/groups/CF-Talk/subscribe.cfm Unsubscribe: http://www.houseoffusion.com/cf_lists/unsubscribe.cfm?user=89.70.4
Re: I love CF but it's not fair
Well I am in the same boat My Company is trying to move to be a Java shop only, and the work for Coldfusion for us is not worth us staying. Yet I am trying to hang on till the fat lady sings. On 6/13/07, Sean Corfield [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: On 6/12/07, Ali Majdzadeh [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: I was searching for job offers in Australia in here http://mycareer.com.au/ If you search for CF job offers it brings only 23 jobs Plus another 16 for Cold Fusion. However, your point is well taken. I hear lots of Australians say that the CF job market seems very slow down under. The job market for CFers is much, much better here in the US - even the relatively new Developer Center job widget shows 29 CF jobs and that's just a small, targeted portion of the overall job market here. That's not much consolation for you, I know, but ColdFusion's success must look very dubious from an Australian's viewpoint and that does not reflect it's success elsewhere in the world... -- Sean A Corfield -- (904) 302-SEAN An Architect's View -- http://corfield.org/ If you're not annoying somebody, you're not really alive. -- Margaret Atwood ~| Upgrade to Adobe ColdFusion MX7 Experience Flex 2 MX7 integration create powerful cross-platform RIAs http://www.adobe.com/products/coldfusion/flex2/?sdid=RVJQ Archive: http://www.houseoffusion.com/groups/CF-Talk/message.cfm/messageid:280887 Subscription: http://www.houseoffusion.com/groups/CF-Talk/subscribe.cfm Unsubscribe: http://www.houseoffusion.com/cf_lists/unsubscribe.cfm?user=89.70.4
Re: I love CF but it's not fair
One time i looked and there were lots of .net php jobs around here but they averaged about $25 an hour for pay, whereas the cfm jobs averaged about $55 an hour. So I hear a lot about how there are so many .net jobs but they fail to mention the crappy pay. ~| ColdFusion MX7 and Flex 2 Build sales marketing dashboard RIAâs for your business. Upgrade now http://www.adobe.com/products/coldfusion/flex2?sdid=RVJT Archive: http://www.houseoffusion.com/groups/CF-Talk/message.cfm/messageid:280898 Subscription: http://www.houseoffusion.com/groups/CF-Talk/subscribe.cfm Unsubscribe: http://www.houseoffusion.com/cf_lists/unsubscribe.cfm?user=89.70.4
Re: I love CF but it's not fair
I would also say that maybe the CF job openings are filled to higher capacity...for whatever reason. And if you are a CF programmer and you don't like your job, it's time to move. But the point is you need 1 job so go get it and don't complain that there is not more trash to sort through. CF Rulez! CF till I die -Ariel - Original Message From: Ali Majdzadeh [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: CF-Talk cf-talk@houseoffusion.com Sent: Tuesday, June 12, 2007 1:53:19 PM Subject: I love CF but it's not fair Hi: I was searching for job offers in Australia in here http://mycareer.com.au/ If you search for CF job offers it brings only 23 jobs which more than half are not even only for CF developers and some are for other languages like PHP or .NET. When I searched for PHP it came out with a few hundreds but with .NET 2334 matching results!!! I love CF but it seems even Python is more popular or at least the search engine comes with better results with it (about 50 offers). I really don't understand why such a powerful and easy langauge should have such a low job offers in Australia! I really don't know about USA but it seems the same thing is true in the USA to. You know I just say it as a theory cause I really love CF and I won't migrate it till and only if Adobe kills the product but it seems if we started with PHP or .Net at the begining now we were more and better employed than now. Please write your opinions. Thanks Benign ~| Create robust enterprise, web RIAs. Upgrade integrate Adobe Coldfusion MX7 with Flex 2 http://www.adobe.com/products/coldfusion/flex2/?sdid=RVJP Archive: http://www.houseoffusion.com/groups/CF-Talk/message.cfm/messageid:280903 Subscription: http://www.houseoffusion.com/groups/CF-Talk/subscribe.cfm Unsubscribe: http://www.houseoffusion.com/cf_lists/unsubscribe.cfm?user=11502.10531.4
Re: I love CF but it's not fair
On 6/12/07, Dave l wrote: One time i looked and there were lots of .net php jobs around here but they averaged about $25 an hour for pay, whereas the cfm jobs averaged about $55 an hour. So is a decent cf dev retarded to work for around $20 an hour, 90hrs a week? No no, don't answer, that was a trick question. Or rhetorical, perhaps. *sigh* Yeah, this buddy of mine, you know... poor bastard... least his retirement's only X years away... *sigh* *sings:* Don't cry for my buddy, Argentina... LOL. Yeah, there's more to life than money. I do rather like having a good bit of it tho... ~| Create Web Applications With ColdFusion MX7 Flex 2. Build powerful, scalable RIAs. Free Trial http://www.adobe.com/products/coldfusion/flex2/?sdid=RVJS Archive: http://www.houseoffusion.com/groups/CF-Talk/message.cfm/messageid:280904 Subscription: http://www.houseoffusion.com/groups/CF-Talk/subscribe.cfm Unsubscribe: http://www.houseoffusion.com/cf_lists/unsubscribe.cfm?user=89.70.4
RE: I love CF but it's not fair
Make it happen for yourself then. :) Most clients I speak to don't care too much about the technology - they care about the price, and getting the functionality/stabilty they want. So, I like CF, and it can always(*) do want they need, so no problem. * more or less. -Original Message- From: Ali Majdzadeh [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: 12 June 2007 21:53 To: CF-Talk Subject: I love CF but it's not fair Hi: I was searching for job offers in Australia in here http://mycareer.com.au/ If you search for CF job offers it brings only 23 jobs which more than half are not even only for CF developers and some are for other languages like PHP or .NET. When I searched for PHP it came out with a few hundreds but with .NET 2334 matching results!!! I love CF but it seems even Python is more popular or at least the search engine comes with better results with it (about 50 offers). I really don't understand why such a powerful and easy langauge should have such a low job offers in Australia! I really don't know about USA but it seems the same thing is true in the USA to. You know I just say it as a theory cause I really love CF and I won't migrate it till and only if Adobe kills the product but it seems if we started with PHP or .Net at the begining now we were more and better employed than now. Please write your opinions. Thanks Benign ~| Create Web Applications With ColdFusion MX7 Flex 2. Build powerful, scalable RIAs. Free Trial http://www.adobe.com/products/coldfusion/flex2/?sdid=RVJS Archive: http://www.houseoffusion.com/groups/CF-Talk/message.cfm/messageid:280905 Subscription: http://www.houseoffusion.com/groups/CF-Talk/subscribe.cfm Unsubscribe: http://www.houseoffusion.com/cf_lists/unsubscribe.cfm?user=89.70.4
Re: I love CF but it's not fair
So is a decent cf dev retarded to work for around $20 an hour, 90hrs a week? Yeah I'd say that! We have cfm jobs here that people dont want because they only pay $45 an hour. So fyi~ there seem to always be cfm job openings here in Colorado. many might not be advertised but at our cfug meetings there seem to be people asking for workers. ~| CF 8 â Scorpio beta now available, easily build great internet experiences â Try it now on Labs http://www.adobe.com/cfusion/entitlement/index.cfm?e=labs_adobecf8_beta Archive: http://www.houseoffusion.com/groups/CF-Talk/message.cfm/messageid:280907 Subscription: http://www.houseoffusion.com/groups/CF-Talk/subscribe.cfm Unsubscribe: http://www.houseoffusion.com/cf_lists/unsubscribe.cfm?user=11502.10531.4
Re: I love CF but it's not fair
When I was building a lot of websites for small companies (you know, those $500 sites) I found that I had to learn PHP to get the job done and make a little money. I no longer do any $500 sites, but when I have time to help out a friend or church ministry with their website I am looking to Ruby on Rails to get the job done quickly and inexpensively. However, at my full-time job and a current contract I have with the Federal Govt. I am using ColdFusion. I wish more than anything that ColdFusion could be the answer to all my needs, but it currently is not. The frustration, at times, makes me wish I just stuck with one (probably RoR). Nonetheless, my love affair with CFML has only just begun. -Aaron On 6/12/07, Dave l [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: So is a decent cf dev retarded to work for around $20 an hour, 90hrs a week? Yeah I'd say that! We have cfm jobs here that people dont want because they only pay $45 an hour. So fyi~ there seem to always be cfm job openings here in Colorado. many might not be advertised but at our cfug meetings there seem to be people asking for workers. ~| Create robust enterprise, web RIAs. Upgrade integrate Adobe Coldfusion MX7 with Flex 2 http://www.adobe.com/products/coldfusion/flex2/?sdid=RVJP Archive: http://www.houseoffusion.com/groups/CF-Talk/message.cfm/messageid:280911 Subscription: http://www.houseoffusion.com/groups/CF-Talk/subscribe.cfm Unsubscribe: http://www.houseoffusion.com/cf_lists/unsubscribe.cfm?user=89.70.4
RE: I love CF but it's not fair
There was a Coldfusion Express very limited by Allaire did provide it. You know thinking about it, what would the chances of Coldfusion becoming plugin based? With that I mean that the Enterprise version does not change. But the standard version minus all parts that contain paid licenses, be open up as being free to use with no restrictions in production. Then there could be a license fee to use parts / modules that are needed for that application to work. But the developer also remain the same, with maybe an increases to 10 IP address limitation or something for a development environment with multiple developers. I know thinking out aloud. Andrew Scott Senior Coldfusion Developer Aegeon Pty. Ltd. www.aegeon.com.au Phone: +613 8676 4223 Mobile: 0404 998 273 -Original Message- From: Russ [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Wednesday, 13 June 2007 7:56 AM To: CF-Talk Subject: RE: I love CF but it's not fair -Original Message- From: Matt Robertson [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Tuesday, June 12, 2007 5:34 PM To: CF-Talk Subject: Re: I love CF but it's not fair On 6/12/07, David Low wrote: I don't recall CF5 ever being free though, I remember there was TagFusion or something like that. Basically was going to be a free CF implementation in Java. I believe CF bought it and used it to create CF 5 (or 6). I'm not 100% on this, but I think that's what happened. ~| Deploy Web Applications Quickly across the enterprise with ColdFusion MX7 Flex 2 Free Trial http://www.adobe.com/products/coldfusion/flex2/?sdid=RVJU Archive: http://www.houseoffusion.com/groups/CF-Talk/message.cfm/messageid:280918 Subscription: http://www.houseoffusion.com/groups/CF-Talk/subscribe.cfm Unsubscribe: http://www.houseoffusion.com/cf_lists/unsubscribe.cfm?user=89.70.4
RE: I love CF but it's not fair
Russ wrote: Maybe someone should make a free/open source CF server. That would probably get more people using it. Of course once you've invested this much time into developing a product like that, it's hard not to start charging for it. (Didn't CF5 and BlueDragon start out as free products?) There are free and cheap engines out there. Someone mentioned Smith already, there's also Railo's community edition (and their other editions are very reasonable too). I haven't looked at these yet in depth, but are they compatible enough to be useful? I remember even BD having compatibility issues. BD has a free edition too - I don't recall CF5 ever being free though, unless it was some kind of upgrade promotion when Macromedia launched it post-Allaire? BD has a free edition, but it's pretty much useless as are the rest of their J2EE editions. The free edition doesn't support SSL and is not for commercial use, which makes it useless for most projects. The J2EE version is around the same price or more expensive then Adobe's and doesn't really provide any extra features, while not supporting many of Adobe's features. The only value I see in BD is if you want to run on the .NET platform. It probably also helps if you need to use more then 2 GB of ram for your app (Although I'm not sure how well .NET would run with that much memory being used). As far as free CF5, I'm talking about the product Macromedia bought to make CF5 (or 6), which I believe was tagfusion, which was the first, I believe, CF clone that was created in Java. Russ ~| Macromedia ColdFusion MX7 Upgrade to MX7 experience time-saving features, more productivity. http://www.adobe.com/products/coldfusion?sdid=RVJW Archive: http://www.houseoffusion.com/groups/CF-Talk/message.cfm/messageid:280935 Subscription: http://www.houseoffusion.com/groups/CF-Talk/subscribe.cfm Unsubscribe: http://www.houseoffusion.com/cf_lists/unsubscribe.cfm?user=11502.10531.4
Re: I love CF but it's not fair
It's a developers' market in Sydney right now. All the recruiters i speak to tell me they desperately need CF developers. They'll pay top dollar right now too. I reckon the hourly rate for contractors has gone up about $10/hour over what it was a year ago. I have a contract at the moment, although I'm slacking off in the ICU at WIndsor Hospital with cardiac problems, but in the last 4 weeks I would have had maybe 8 calls from recruiters looking for CF developers specifically, and not flinching at all when I tell them that i'm busy and can't look at their opportunity this time, but in any case they'll need to up their offer to get someone good. In fact my mobile rang this morning while a nurse was taking my blood pressure and sticking a needle in my belly, with yet another recruiter looking for a CF contractor in the Sydney CBD. He was prepared to pay about $50/hour so it's a good job. I reckon he'll go higher too. So the answer is like anything else - you gotta put in the legwork. you have to go find people who have jobs to fill. One way is to travel all the job web sites, get yourself on the mailing lists like cfjobs, call the recruiters till your voice is hoarse. But as someone in this thread said earlier - you dont need 2335 jobs, you only need 1. It doesnt matter how many jobs there are, as long as you get one of them. Cheers Mike Kear Windsor, NSW, Australia Adobe Certified Advanced ColdFusion Developer AFP Webworks http://afpwebworks.com ColdFusion, PHP, ASP, ASP.NET hosting from AUD$15/month ~| Create robust enterprise, web RIAs. Upgrade integrate Adobe Coldfusion MX7 with Flex 2 http://www.adobe.com/products/coldfusion/flex2/?sdid=RVJP Archive: http://www.houseoffusion.com/groups/CF-Talk/message.cfm/messageid:280938 Subscription: http://www.houseoffusion.com/groups/CF-Talk/subscribe.cfm Unsubscribe: http://www.houseoffusion.com/cf_lists/unsubscribe.cfm?user=89.70.4
