Re: CFC-based GPL web HTML editor
On Wednesday 17 Sep 2003 13:50 pm, Adam Wayne Lehman wrote: > The idea that most people don't have Java is just marketing > spin from Microsoft. (All the Dell's we've bought with XP had a JVM > pre-installed.) Although it *is* true that some places dis-allow excutable content, such as applets, at the gateway, or by policys on the local machines. Depdends on your target market. -- Tom Chiverton (sorry 'bout sig.) Advanced ColdFusion Programmer Tel: +44(0)1749 834997 email: [EMAIL PROTECTED] BlueFinger Limited Underwood Business Park Wookey Hole Road, WELLS. BA5 1AF Tel: +44 (0)1749 834900 Fax: +44 (0)1749 834901 web: www.bluefinger.com Company Reg No: 4209395 Registered Office: 2 Temple Back East, Temple Quay, BRISTOL. BS1 6EG. *** This E-mail contains confidential information for the addressee only. If you are not the intended recipient, please notify us immediately. You should not use, disclose, distribute or copy this communication if received in error. No binding contract will result from this e-mail until such time as a written document is signed on behalf of the company. BlueFinger Limited cannot accept responsibility for the completeness or accuracy of this message as it has been transmitted over public networks.*** ~| Archives: http://www.houseoffusion.com/lists.cfm?link=t:4 Subscription: http://www.houseoffusion.com/lists.cfm?link=s:4 Unsubscribe: http://www.houseoffusion.com/cf_lists/unsubscribe.cfm?user=89.70.4 Signup for the Fusion Authority news alert and keep up with the latest news in ColdFusion and related topics. http://www.fusionauthority.com/signup.cfm
RE: CFC-based GPL web HTML editor
Such a big thread an no-one has mentioned HTMLArea. Check out: http://sourceforge.net/projects/itools-htmlarea/ And here for a demo: Version 3.0 Beta http://dynarch.com/htmlarea/example-fully-loaded.html This works in IE and Mozilla based browsers. It might be worth a look just to port that to a cfc. Adam Hope. ~| Archives: http://www.houseoffusion.com/lists.cfm?link=t:4 Subscription: http://www.houseoffusion.com/lists.cfm?link=s:4 Unsubscribe: http://www.houseoffusion.com/cf_lists/unsubscribe.cfm?user=89.70.4 Get the mailserver that powers this list at http://www.coolfusion.com
RE: CFC-based GPL web HTML editor
It took me about 5 seconds to find a java applet wysiwyg. (It's not the greatest, but it is for _everyone_) http://head.sourceforge.net/portrait.html For the IE6 no JVM argument, much like Flash, most vendors will install the JVM before shipping. Additionally the first time a user visits a page requiring a JVM, the user is prompted to download install a VM from Microsoft. The idea that most people don't have Java is just marketing spin from Microsoft. (All the Dell's we've bought with XP had a JVM pre-installed.) Adam Wayne Lehman Web Systems Developer Johns Hopkins Bloomberg School of Public Health Distance Education Division -Original Message- From: Matt Liotta [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Tuesday, September 16, 2003 8:33 PM To: CF-Talk Subject: Re: CFC-based GPL web HTML editor > Why? It seems like most of the editors already support a very common > set > of features. Most users are not going to be impressed that a Java > editor > functions the same way on all platforms. I'm sure a Mac user would > prefer the editor to function like a native application/widget. I know > part of the reason I dislike Macromedia applications is that they do > not > feel or function like Windows applications. I pretty sure I'm note > alone > on this. > The above perspective seems to apply to desktop applications and not web applications. I believe most users expect a web application to look and behave the same no matter what browser on what platform they are using. > Because, instead of writing a relatively simple interface for each > different platform, you'd have to write, test, debug, etc. all the > functionality yourself. Unless I'm completely off base, I think it > would > take much more time to write a feature rich, cross platform HTML > editor. > I'd much rather just leverage the work done by other individuals. I > don't have any desire to reinvent the wheel. > That all may be true, but it doesn't at all speak to why a Java editor would be more limited as you first stated. Matt Liotta President & CEO Montara Software, Inc. http://www.MontaraSoftware.com (888) 408-0900 x901 ~| Archives: http://www.houseoffusion.com/lists.cfm?link=t:4 Subscription: http://www.houseoffusion.com/lists.cfm?link=s:4 Unsubscribe: http://www.houseoffusion.com/cf_lists/unsubscribe.cfm?user=89.70.4 Signup for the Fusion Authority news alert and keep up with the latest news in ColdFusion and related topics. http://www.fusionauthority.com/signup.cfm
RE: CFC-based GPL web HTML editor
It's a lot easier to install a JVM for IE6 than it is to install a new OS! Adam Wayne Lehman Web Systems Developer Johns Hopkins Bloomberg School of Public Health Distance Education Division -Original Message- From: Claude Schneegans [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Tuesday, September 16, 2003 6:06 PM To: CF-Talk Subject: Re: CFC-based GPL web HTML editor >>That would mean that everyone who uses Windows using IE 5.5+, No, because you also have all those using IE on Macs ;-) When one say 95% of IE users, this include about all Mac users. The 5% remaining are not Mac users, but Opera, Mozilla, etc. >>most people who are using modern browsers such as IE 5.5 certainly do have Java. IE 5.5 yes, but about 60% of users are running version 6 which does not include the "Virtual Machine" and many of those people won't even try to install it. >>It is entirely possible that the percentage of people with Java installed is actually higher than the number of people who have IE 5.5+. IMHO it is much probable it is far less than that. ~| Archives: http://www.houseoffusion.com/lists.cfm?link=t:4 Subscription: http://www.houseoffusion.com/lists.cfm?link=s:4 Unsubscribe: http://www.houseoffusion.com/cf_lists/unsubscribe.cfm?user=89.70.4 Your ad could be here. Monies from ads go to support these lists and provide more resources for the community. http://www.fusionauthority.com/ads.cfm
RE: CFC-based GPL web HTML editor
> -Original Message- > From: Adam Wayne Lehman [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] > Sent: Tuesday, September 16, 2003 11:21 AM > To: CF-Talk > Subject: RE: CFC-based GPL web HTML editor > > LOL. She's my new office mate! She a gem and a half - treat her well! We really lost something special when she left Boston. Jim Davis > Adam Wayne Lehman > Web Systems Developer > Johns Hopkins Bloomberg School of Public Health > Distance Education Division > > > -Original Message- > From: Jim Davis [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] > Sent: Tuesday, September 16, 2003 10:40 AM > To: CF-Talk > Subject: RE: CFC-based GPL web HTML editor > > > -Original Message- > > From: Adam Wayne Lehman [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] > > Sent: Tuesday, September 16, 2003 9:36 AM > > To: CF-Talk > > Subject: RE: CFC-based GPL web HTML editor > > > > Win IE5.5 required = unusable. > > ...unless you have IE 5.5+ ;^) > > But I agree in theory - however this would make lots of sense for a > controlled environment (Intranet or Administration system) that featured > IE as a standard. > > However it IS an open-source project: those interested may undertake > their own project to test it on other platforms and make the needed > adjustments. > > (As an aside - a good friend of mine just got accepted at John Hopkins > in a web position, not sure what department. She starts in a week or > so, Karin Horlbeck? Know her?) > > Jim Davis > > > > ~| Archives: http://www.houseoffusion.com/lists.cfm?link=t:4 Subscription: http://www.houseoffusion.com/lists.cfm?link=s:4 Unsubscribe: http://www.houseoffusion.com/cf_lists/unsubscribe.cfm?user=89.70.4 Signup for the Fusion Authority news alert and keep up with the latest news in ColdFusion and related topics. http://www.fusionauthority.com/signup.cfm
Re: CFC-based GPL web HTML editor
> Why? It seems like most of the editors already support a very common > set > of features. Most users are not going to be impressed that a Java > editor > functions the same way on all platforms. I'm sure a Mac user would > prefer the editor to function like a native application/widget. I know > part of the reason I dislike Macromedia applications is that they do > not > feel or function like Windows applications. I pretty sure I'm note > alone > on this. > The above perspective seems to apply to desktop applications and not web applications. I believe most users expect a web application to look and behave the same no matter what browser on what platform they are using. > Because, instead of writing a relatively simple interface for each > different platform, you'd have to write, test, debug, etc. all the > functionality yourself. Unless I'm completely off base, I think it > would > take much more time to write a feature rich, cross platform HTML > editor. > I'd much rather just leverage the work done by other individuals. I > don't have any desire to reinvent the wheel. > That all may be true, but it doesn't at all speak to why a Java editor would be more limited as you first stated. Matt Liotta President & CEO Montara Software, Inc. http://www.MontaraSoftware.com (888) 408-0900 x901 ~| Archives: http://www.houseoffusion.com/lists.cfm?link=t:4 Subscription: http://www.houseoffusion.com/lists.cfm?link=s:4 Unsubscribe: http://www.houseoffusion.com/cf_lists/unsubscribe.cfm?user=89.70.4 This list and all House of Fusion resources hosted by CFHosting.com. The place for dependable ColdFusion Hosting. http://www.cfhosting.com
Re: CFC-based GPL web HTML editor
>>part of the reason I dislike Macromedia applications is that they do not feel or function like Windows applications. I pretty sure I'm note alone on this. You sure are not. This is also one of the reason I gave up with Netscape when they spent (lost) one year just to rewrite the interface so it "doesn't look like Windows" I'm sorry, but it is MY Windows, I paid fot it and I don't like programs which fill my disk with all it takes to have a different interface, even if they are free. What a loss of time! ~| Archives: http://www.houseoffusion.com/lists.cfm?link=t:4 Subscription: http://www.houseoffusion.com/lists.cfm?link=s:4 Unsubscribe: http://www.houseoffusion.com/cf_lists/unsubscribe.cfm?user=89.70.4 Your ad could be here. Monies from ads go to support these lists and provide more resources for the community. http://www.fusionauthority.com/ads.cfm
RE: CFC-based GPL web HTML editor
> Actually, no. Mac IE stopped at 5.2.3 - it did not reach 5.5. The version numbers are not comparable cross-platform. Just as an example, Internet Explorer 6 for the PC uses the Mac Internet Explorer rendering engine. This, of course, does not mean that Mac Internet Explorer 5.x is equivalent to the PC Internet Explorer version 6.x (which did come out later). However, they are a much closer pedigree than the 5.x versions as far as HTML rendering goes. Benjamin S. Rogers http://www.c4.net/ v.508.240.0051 f.508.240.0057 ~| Archives: http://www.houseoffusion.com/lists.cfm?link=t:4 Subscription: http://www.houseoffusion.com/lists.cfm?link=s:4 Unsubscribe: http://www.houseoffusion.com/cf_lists/unsubscribe.cfm?user=89.70.4 This list and all House of Fusion resources hosted by CFHosting.com. The place for dependable ColdFusion Hosting. http://www.cfhosting.com
RE: CFC-based GPL web HTML editor
> First, if you wrap your editor around native functionality then the > capabilities and behavior of the editor will vary by platform, which is > certainly no good. Why? It seems like most of the editors already support a very common set of features. Most users are not going to be impressed that a Java editor functions the same way on all platforms. I'm sure a Mac user would prefer the editor to function like a native application/widget. I know part of the reason I dislike Macromedia applications is that they do not feel or function like Windows applications. I pretty sure I'm note alone on this. > Second, why would a Java solution be limited in any > way as compared to a native solution? Because, instead of writing a relatively simple interface for each different platform, you'd have to write, test, debug, etc. all the functionality yourself. Unless I'm completely off base, I think it would take much more time to write a feature rich, cross platform HTML editor. I'd much rather just leverage the work done by other individuals. I don't have any desire to reinvent the wheel. Benjamin S. Rogers http://www.c4.net/ v.508.240.0051 f.508.240.0057 ~| Archives: http://www.houseoffusion.com/lists.cfm?link=t:4 Subscription: http://www.houseoffusion.com/lists.cfm?link=s:4 Unsubscribe: http://www.houseoffusion.com/cf_lists/unsubscribe.cfm?user=89.70.4 Your ad could be here. Monies from ads go to support these lists and provide more resources for the community. http://www.fusionauthority.com/ads.cfm
Re: CFC-based GPL web HTML editor
I was going to stay out of this but... On Tuesday, Sep 16, 2003, at 15:05 US/Pacific, Claude Schneegans wrote: >>> That would mean that everyone who uses Windows using IE 5.5+, > No, because you also have all those using IE on Macs ;-) Actually, no. Mac IE stopped at 5.2.3 - it did not reach 5.5. And many, many Mac users have long since abandoned IE for a more feature-rich browser such as Safari, Mozilla, Opera... Visitors to my blog (86% Win, 13% Mac, 1% Linux): 64% IE 6.x 6% IE 5.x __ 70% IE 5.x+ 1% Konqueror 3.x 29% Netscape 5.x Vistors to my site in general (85% Win, 3% Mac, 12% Other/Linux): 72% IE 6.x 8% IE 5.x __ 80% IE 5.x+ 1% Konqueror 3.x 1% Konqueror 2.x 1% Netscape 6.x 12% Netscape 5.x 1% Netscape 4.x 4% Netscape 3.x As you can see, not even all Windows users are running IE - only about 15% of my audience is non-Windows, yet 20-30% of my audience is non-IE. Note: certain 'fringe' browsers are detected as Netscape / Konqueror when they aren't. Sean A Corfield -- http://www.corfield.org/blog/ "If you're not annoying somebody, you're not really alive." -- Margaret Atwood ~| Archives: http://www.houseoffusion.com/lists.cfm?link=t:4 Subscription: http://www.houseoffusion.com/lists.cfm?link=s:4 Unsubscribe: http://www.houseoffusion.com/cf_lists/unsubscribe.cfm?user=89.70.4 Signup for the Fusion Authority news alert and keep up with the latest news in ColdFusion and related topics. http://www.fusionauthority.com/signup.cfm
RE: CFC-based GPL web HTML editor
Not for me. I see there is a 'redirect="oldbrowser.htm"' parameter in the tag, but if I remove it, the page throws an error in netscape. The notes say if the browser isn't IE5.5+ then the user is redirected somewhere else. I think they should still get the form, but with a textarea instead of the tag. No? Have I done that wrong? Ummm ... we *ARE* talking about tmt_xhtmleditor.cfm aren't we? If not, what's the name of YOUR tag, Mauricio and where can it be got? Cheers, Michael Kear Windsor, NSW, Australia AFP Webworks. -Original Message- From: Mauricio Giraldo [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Wednesday, 17 September 2003 7:38 AM To: CF-Talk Subject: Re:CFC-based GPL web HTML editor >I would like to see the "old browsers" handled by replacing the tag with a >standard textarea tag rather than bump them off to an "oldbrowser.htm" file. >Is this easy to do? Absolutely. It is already implemented. Non-IE 5.5+ browsers will get a plain old TEXTAREA tag :) - mga ~| Archives: http://www.houseoffusion.com/lists.cfm?link=t:4 Subscription: http://www.houseoffusion.com/lists.cfm?link=s:4 Unsubscribe: http://www.houseoffusion.com/cf_lists/unsubscribe.cfm?user=89.70.4 Your ad could be here. Monies from ads go to support these lists and provide more resources for the community. http://www.fusionauthority.com/ads.cfm
Re: CFC-based GPL web HTML editor
>>That would mean that everyone who uses Windows using IE 5.5+, No, because you also have all those using IE on Macs ;-) When one say 95% of IE users, this include about all Mac users. The 5% remaining are not Mac users, but Opera, Mozilla, etc. >>most people who are using modern browsers such as IE 5.5 certainly do have Java. IE 5.5 yes, but about 60% of users are running version 6 which does not include the "Virtual Machine" and many of those people won't even try to install it. >>It is entirely possible that the percentage of people with Java installed is actually higher than the number of people who have IE 5.5+. IMHO it is much probable it is far less than that. ~| Archives: http://www.houseoffusion.com/lists.cfm?link=t:4 Subscription: http://www.houseoffusion.com/lists.cfm?link=s:4 Unsubscribe: http://www.houseoffusion.com/cf_lists/unsubscribe.cfm?user=89.70.4 Signup for the Fusion Authority news alert and keep up with the latest news in ColdFusion and related topics. http://www.fusionauthority.com/signup.cfm
RE: CFC-based GPL web HTML editor
No one is disregarding. The opposite. Its providing the best functionality you can within reason for each browser. Example, Yahoo uses it for their email program. The wysiwig doesnt show up on a mac or netscape browser but plenty of people use yahoo with macs and with netscape. DRE -Original Message- From: Adam Wayne Lehman [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Tuesday, September 16, 2003 10:16 AM To: CF-Talk Subject: RE: CFC-based GPL web HTML editor Look, if only 100 people used the internet, then disregarding 5% would be acceptable. 2004 projections for people online worldwide is 710-945 million. So are you saying that 35-74 million users aren't worth your time? There are plenty of Javascript and Flash based WYSIWYGs. Adam Wayne Lehman Web Systems Developer Johns Hopkins Bloomberg School of Public Health Distance Education Division -Original Message- From: Thane Sherrington [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Tuesday, September 16, 2003 11:58 AM To: CF-Talk Subject: RE: CFC-based GPL web HTML editor At 11:37 AM 9/16/03 -0400, Adam Wayne Lehman wrote: >Umm... I hate to break it to you, but people *do* use Macs, and you >can't just ignore users just cuz they are a minority. That depends. If 5% of users are non-IE users, then I can't really spend more than 5% of my development time on making things work for them, can I? That's the downside to the non-IE compatible browsers. Remember when word processors *had* to be WordStar file compatible? It's the same thing with browsers. I'm all for competition, but browser companies should take note of OpenOffice - it can read MS Word formats well, and that's what's making it successful. T Tired of your bookmarks/favourites being limited to one computer? Move them to the Net! www.stuffbythane.com/webfavourites makes it easy to keep all your favourites in one place and access them from any computer that's attached to the Internet. ~| Archives: http://www.houseoffusion.com/lists.cfm?link=t:4 Subscription: http://www.houseoffusion.com/lists.cfm?link=s:4 Unsubscribe: http://www.houseoffusion.com/cf_lists/unsubscribe.cfm?user=89.70.4 Your ad could be here. Monies from ads go to support these lists and provide more resources for the community. http://www.fusionauthority.com/ads.cfm
Re: CFC-based GPL web HTML editor
>>Java is installed in around 91% of users' computers. Even this looks pretty optimistic to me. There are also those who "do have Java installed", but it is not activated, and this includes all those who never found it in their IE options and didn't know it was called "Virtual Machine" ;-)) ~| Archives: http://www.houseoffusion.com/lists.cfm?link=t:4 Subscription: http://www.houseoffusion.com/lists.cfm?link=s:4 Unsubscribe: http://www.houseoffusion.com/cf_lists/unsubscribe.cfm?user=89.70.4 Signup for the Fusion Authority news alert and keep up with the latest news in ColdFusion and related topics. http://www.fusionauthority.com/signup.cfm
Re: CFC-based GPL web HTML editor
>>I would think a better approach would be to use the tools native to each browser The problem is that there is NO editing tools in other browsers :-( >>That way, instead of rolling your own very limited, non-native Java editor, I don't see the advantage of going Java in order to get "cross browser" There may be about 5% of users that don't use IE, but there is definitely a much greater percentage of IE 6 users not having Java installed and who don't want to here about it. ~| Archives: http://www.houseoffusion.com/lists.cfm?link=t:4 Subscription: http://www.houseoffusion.com/lists.cfm?link=s:4 Unsubscribe: http://www.houseoffusion.com/cf_lists/unsubscribe.cfm?user=89.70.4 This list and all House of Fusion resources hosted by CFHosting.com. The place for dependable ColdFusion Hosting. http://www.cfhosting.com
Re: CFC-based GPL web HTML editor
> According to this: > http://www.macromedia.com/software/player_census/flashplayer/ > > Java is installed in around 91% of users' computers. I prefer a 95% IE > 5.5+ no-plug-in-needed penetration than a 91% Java penetration. > What is interesting about those statistics is that they don't tell you the conclusion you are making. For example, how could 95% of people being using IE 5.5+ if 5% of people are using Macs. That would mean that everyone who uses Windows using IE 5.5+, which is certainly not true. Further, the Java number is also skewed as most people who are using modern browsers such as IE 5.5 certainly do have Java. And of course there is the fact that all Mac OS X users have Java installed. It is entirely possible that the percentage of people with Java installed is actually higher than the number of people who have IE 5.5+. Matt Liotta President & CEO Montara Software, Inc. http://www.MontaraSoftware.com (888) 408-0900 x901 ~| Archives: http://www.houseoffusion.com/lists.cfm?link=t:4 Subscription: http://www.houseoffusion.com/lists.cfm?link=s:4 Unsubscribe: http://www.houseoffusion.com/cf_lists/unsubscribe.cfm?user=89.70.4 This list and all House of Fusion resources hosted by CFHosting.com. The place for dependable ColdFusion Hosting. http://www.cfhosting.com
Re: CFC-based GPL web HTML editor
Hey Mauricio, I just wanted to say that despite all the commotion your editor caused that I think it's great that you took an open source option and converted it to CF. It makes me want to take another look through SourceForge to see if there's other nifty things I haven't been paying attention to that might be worth converting. -Kevin - Original Message - From: "Mauricio Giraldo" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> To: "CF-Talk" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> Sent: Monday, September 15, 2003 5:09 PM Subject: OT: CFC-based GPL web HTML editor > Hi > > Just wanted to let you know we have posted on SourceForge a WYSIWYG > web-based HTML Editor. It is in Beta development right now. It is quite > stable and I'm sure you will find it useful (we looked all over the web for > a good CF web editor and all are quite costly so we decided to port a really > good PHP-based editor). > > It uses CFC so CFMX is required. It will work in shared server environments. > Win MSIE 5.5+ required. > > If you want to contribute/submit bugs/whatever just post your messages in > the corresponding SourceForge forums for the project. The project summary is > in: > > http://sourceforge.net/projects/spaw-cf > > Regards > - mga > > (Non-commercial only for now) > > _ > Try MSN Messenger 6.0 with integrated webcam functionality! > http://www.msnmessenger-download.com/tracking/reach_webcam > > ~| Archives: http://www.houseoffusion.com/lists.cfm?link=t:4 Subscription: http://www.houseoffusion.com/lists.cfm?link=s:4 Unsubscribe: http://www.houseoffusion.com/cf_lists/unsubscribe.cfm?user=89.70.4 This list and all House of Fusion resources hosted by CFHosting.com. The place for dependable ColdFusion Hosting. http://www.cfhosting.com
RE: CFC-based GPL web HTML editor
I've implemented that editor on an experimental area of a site I'm working on and it's a beaut! It's simple to use, no heaps and heaps of configuration files to muck about with. It's great for what I think would be the majority of applications for this kind of tag. I like the fact that the formatting options are limited, so non-technical users can't experiment with html tags and wreck the look and feel of my site. I can restrict the html they can use. And it's cfc-friendly. I would like to see the "old browsers" handled by replacing the tag with a standard textarea tag rather than bump them off to an "oldbrowser.htm" file. Is this easy to do? Cheers, Michael Kear Windsor, NSW, Australia AFP Webworks. -Original Message- From: Thane Sherrington [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Wednesday, 17 September 2003 1:58 AM To: CF-Talk Subject: RE: CFC-based GPL web HTML editor At 11:37 AM 9/16/03 -0400, Adam Wayne Lehman wrote: >Umm... I hate to break it to you, but people *do* use Macs, and you >can't just ignore users just cuz they are a minority. That depends. If 5% of users are non-IE users, then I can't really spend more than 5% of my development time on making things work for them, can I? That's the downside to the non-IE compatible browsers. Remember when word processors *had* to be WordStar file compatible? It's the same thing with browsers. I'm all for competition, but browser companies should take note of OpenOffice - it can read MS Word formats well, and that's what's making it successful. T ~| Archives: http://www.houseoffusion.com/lists.cfm?link=t:4 Subscription: http://www.houseoffusion.com/lists.cfm?link=s:4 Unsubscribe: http://www.houseoffusion.com/cf_lists/unsubscribe.cfm?user=89.70.4 This list and all House of Fusion resources hosted by CFHosting.com. The place for dependable ColdFusion Hosting. http://www.cfhosting.com
Re: CFC-based GPL web HTML editor
> That way, instead of rolling your own very limited, non-native Java > editor, you could provide a feature rich, seamless experience for each > browser. > First, if you wrap your editor around native functionality then the capabilities and behavior of the editor will vary by platform, which is certainly no good. Second, why would a Java solution be limited in any way as compared to a native solution? Matt Liotta President & CEO Montara Software, Inc. http://www.MontaraSoftware.com (888) 408-0900 x901 ~| Archives: http://www.houseoffusion.com/lists.cfm?link=t:4 Subscription: http://www.houseoffusion.com/lists.cfm?link=s:4 Unsubscribe: http://www.houseoffusion.com/cf_lists/unsubscribe.cfm?user=89.70.4 This list and all House of Fusion resources hosted by CFHosting.com. The place for dependable ColdFusion Hosting. http://www.cfhosting.com
RE: CFC-based GPL web HTML editor
> I have given it a look and I believe that using a Java front-end > through either an Applet or Java Web Start is the only way to create a > good cross-platform HTML editor. Therefore, nothing in your project is > useful in that regard. I would think a better approach would be to use the tools native to each browser and provide a standard ColdFusion interface: http://msdn.microsoft.com/library/default.asp?url=/workshop/browser/msht ml/mshtml_editing_node_entry.asp http://www.mozilla.org/catalog/libraries/editor/ That way, instead of rolling your own very limited, non-native Java editor, you could provide a feature rich, seamless experience for each browser. Benjamin S. Rogers http://www.c4.net/ v.508.240.0051 f.508.240.0057 ~| Archives: http://www.houseoffusion.com/lists.cfm?link=t:4 Subscription: http://www.houseoffusion.com/lists.cfm?link=s:4 Unsubscribe: http://www.houseoffusion.com/cf_lists/unsubscribe.cfm?user=89.70.4 This list and all House of Fusion resources hosted by CFHosting.com. The place for dependable ColdFusion Hosting. http://www.cfhosting.com
Re: CFC-based GPL web HTML editor
> The editor is built using CFCs and an OO perspective. This way we can > replace pieces of code without having to redo everything. Javascript > is well separated from CF. I guess a cross-browser version could be > done why not? Have you given it a look? > I have given it a look and I believe that using a Java front-end through either an Applet or Java Web Start is the only way to create a good cross-platform HTML editor. Therefore, nothing in your project is useful in that regard. Matt Liotta President & CEO Montara Software, Inc. http://www.MontaraSoftware.com (888) 408-0900 x901 ~| Archives: http://www.houseoffusion.com/lists.cfm?link=t:4 Subscription: http://www.houseoffusion.com/lists.cfm?link=s:4 Unsubscribe: http://www.houseoffusion.com/cf_lists/unsubscribe.cfm?user=89.70.4 Get the mailserver that powers this list at http://www.coolfusion.com
RE: CFC-based GPL web HTML editor
> I don't charge extra because I consider it part of my job. Well, all other things being equal, my base price is going to be lower than yours. I assure you, my customers are more concerned about price than whether or not the site functions properly in one of several different browsers on one of a couple different Operating Systems on the Mac. I consider addressing my customers' concerns my entire job. Benjamin S. Rogers http://www.c4.net/ v.508.240.0051 f.508.240.0057 ~| Archives: http://www.houseoffusion.com/lists.cfm?link=t:4 Subscription: http://www.houseoffusion.com/lists.cfm?link=s:4 Unsubscribe: http://www.houseoffusion.com/cf_lists/unsubscribe.cfm?user=89.70.4 Get the mailserver that powers this list at http://www.coolfusion.com
Re: Mac usage [Re: CFC-based GPL web HTML editor]
Matt Liotta wrote: >The reason is simple; Mac OS X currently provides the best overall >platform for Java developers. In fact, it was recently reported by the >Java mothership, Sun, that most of their employees use Macs at home. > > > Actually I have been dealing with a major Java bug for almost a year now on OS X. The LiveConnect API is not implemented properly in any web browsers on OS X. This API allows a Java applet to communicate with JavaScript, or the calling document's DOM. This is a major hurdle in getting WYSIWYG editors to work on Mac's, because you can't seamlessly interact with a web form. I've submitted several bug reports to Apple with no avail. Flash also relies on LiveConnect, in it's fscommand function. Other than this problem, OSX is a pretty kickin OS. _ Pete Freitag http://www.cfdev.com/ Author CFMX Developers Cookbook http://www.amazon.com/exec/obidos/ASIN/0672324628/netgig-20 ~| Archives: http://www.houseoffusion.com/lists.cfm?link=t:4 Subscription: http://www.houseoffusion.com/lists.cfm?link=s:4 Unsubscribe: http://www.houseoffusion.com/cf_lists/unsubscribe.cfm?user=89.70.4 Signup for the Fusion Authority news alert and keep up with the latest news in ColdFusion and related topics. http://www.fusionauthority.com/signup.cfm
Re: Mac usage [Re: CFC-based GPL web HTML editor]
No argument. But the OSCON number was intersting because the Java population there was more like 10-15%. The bulk were Perl, PHP, and Ruby. But in all fairness, even the folks with Dell, HP, and Compaq laptops were usually running some Linux distro :) You could here the chiming of Windows starting up, but that was more the reporters, managers, and other folks -- developers were *way* Mac-centric. This is a far cry from the OS8-9 days where Java 1.1.7 (plus swing and collections API as downloads) was the version you got from Apple man was that a PIA. Regards, John Paul Ashenfelter CTO/Transitionpoint [EMAIL PROTECTED] - Original Message - From: "Matt Liotta" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> To: "CF-Talk" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> Sent: Tuesday, September 16, 2003 2:29 PM Subject: Re: Mac usage [Re: CFC-based GPL web HTML editor] > > the last two numbers are the interesting ones IMHO -- used to be > > graphic > > designers used Mac, developers used PC (maybe with Linux on it, but > > probably > > Windows). Most of the Java developers I know are moving to Mac. I'd > > head > > there myself if I didn't spend 50-60% in MS-SQL developer world with > > local > > database servers (and I'm not real interested in running VirtualPC for > > that) > > > The reason is simple; Mac OS X currently provides the best overall > platform for Java developers. In fact, it was recently reported by the > Java mothership, Sun, that most of their employees use Macs at home. > > Matt Liotta > President & CEO > Montara Software, Inc. > http://www.MontaraSoftware.com > (888) 408-0900 x901 > > > ~| Archives: http://www.houseoffusion.com/lists.cfm?link=t:4 Subscription: http://www.houseoffusion.com/lists.cfm?link=s:4 Unsubscribe: http://www.houseoffusion.com/cf_lists/unsubscribe.cfm?user=89.70.4 This list and all House of Fusion resources hosted by CFHosting.com. The place for dependable ColdFusion Hosting. http://www.cfhosting.com
Mac usage [Re: CFC-based GPL web HTML editor]
Agreed. It all depends on your target market. A few examples of Mac usage (culled from netcraft, web logs, and personal experience etc) in... the total population of the web <10% education ~40% at University of Virginia last I had stats Darden Business school @ University of Virginia 0% (ok, I have one developer friend who brings in his powerbook...) the last graphic design firm I worked with 100% my company, currently 0% the OReilly Open Source Convention ~50% speakers at the last All-Stuff, No-Fluff java weekend I attended ~ 50% the last two numbers are the interesting ones IMHO -- used to be graphic designers used Mac, developers used PC (maybe with Linux on it, but probably Windows). Most of the Java developers I know are moving to Mac. I'd head there myself if I didn't spend 50-60% in MS-SQL developer world with local database servers (and I'm not real interested in running VirtualPC for that) More interesting to me is of the Macintosh OS X users, how many are using Safari vs using MSIE or Mozilla. Regards, John Paul Ashenfelter CTO/Transitionpoint [EMAIL PROTECTED] - Original Message - From: "Matt Liotta" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> To: "CF-Talk" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> Sent: Tuesday, September 16, 2003 11:38 AM Subject: Re: CFC-based GPL web HTML editor > >>> Win IE5.5 required = unusable. > > > > ... by about 5% users... > > > That kind of perspective is how we got stuck with Microsoft in the > first place! > > Matt Liotta > President & CEO > Montara Software, Inc. > http://www.MontaraSoftware.com > (888) 408-0900 x901 > > > ~| Archives: http://www.houseoffusion.com/lists.cfm?link=t:4 Subscription: http://www.houseoffusion.com/lists.cfm?link=s:4 Unsubscribe: http://www.houseoffusion.com/cf_lists/unsubscribe.cfm?user=89.70.4 Your ad could be here. Monies from ads go to support these lists and provide more resources for the community. http://www.fusionauthority.com/ads.cfm
Re: CFC-based GPL web HTML editor
A more worrisome statistic is how much of the web is non-English speaking (specifically the huge projections for China). Should you also dedicate, say, 20% of your project time to translating into Chinese? Or maybe 10% for Spanish? etc. etc. It's all about knowing your audience. If you're ok that the 5% of your audience that's non-English speaking (to use a conservative number) can't access your site, why do you need to worry about 5% that uses Macs and can't access your site? 5% is 5%. What about the population of the disabled who use alternative browsers? And if you're developing in Canada, can you ignore the French translation of your site and rule out Quebec (and probably violate some provincial laws in the process)? Or build a MSIE/Win app and deploy it for all the Mac users at the local design firm? And the folks *without* web access? What about them :) So take a look at the current web logs (you do look at your web logs, right?) and see what browsers, versions, platforms, and charactersets are being used. That might help guide the development efforts -- not simply generalizations like "5% of the population is Mac". As an aside, the open source log analyzer awstats generates some really straightforward data from apache and iis logs as far as browsers go (Sure, you could also just import the logs in Excel and run the analysis yourself, but this is an easy, daily update). Little quirky to install, but really useful IMHO. Regards, John Paul Ashenfelter CTO/Transitionpoint [EMAIL PROTECTED] - Original Message - From: "Adam Wayne Lehman" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> To: "CF-Talk" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> Sent: Tuesday, September 16, 2003 12:16 PM Subject: RE: CFC-based GPL web HTML editor > Look, if only 100 people used the internet, then disregarding 5% would > be acceptable. 2004 projections for people online worldwide is 710-945 > million. > So are you saying that 35-74 million users aren't worth your time? There > are plenty of Javascript and Flash based WYSIWYGs. > > Adam Wayne Lehman > Web Systems Developer > Johns Hopkins Bloomberg School of Public Health > Distance Education Division > > > -Original Message- > From: Thane Sherrington [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] > Sent: Tuesday, September 16, 2003 11:58 AM > To: CF-Talk > Subject: RE: CFC-based GPL web HTML editor > > At 11:37 AM 9/16/03 -0400, Adam Wayne Lehman wrote: > >Umm... I hate to break it to you, but people *do* use Macs, and you > >can't just ignore users just cuz they are a minority. > > That depends. If 5% of users are non-IE users, then I can't really > spend > more than 5% of my development time on making things work for them, can > I? That's the downside to the non-IE compatible browsers. Remember > when > word processors *had* to be WordStar file compatible? It's the same > thing > with browsers. I'm all for competition, but browser companies should > take > note of OpenOffice - it can read MS Word formats well, and that's what's > > making it successful. > > > T > > Tired of your bookmarks/favourites being limited to one computer? Move > them to the Net! > www.stuffbythane.com/webfavourites makes it easy to keep all your > favourites in one place and > access them from any computer that's attached to the Internet. > > > ~| Archives: http://www.houseoffusion.com/lists.cfm?link=t:4 Subscription: http://www.houseoffusion.com/lists.cfm?link=s:4 Unsubscribe: http://www.houseoffusion.com/cf_lists/unsubscribe.cfm?user=89.70.4 Your ad could be here. Monies from ads go to support these lists and provide more resources for the community. http://www.fusionauthority.com/ads.cfm
Re: CFC-based GPL web HTML editor
> 3) it is an open-source GPL editor. If anyone wants to contribute and > make a crossbrowser version we are completely open to ideas. > Except of course that your editor depends on functionality only found in IE. Writing an editor that was completed cross-platform would require throwing all everything you have done so far and starting again. Matt Liotta President & CEO Montara Software, Inc. http://www.MontaraSoftware.com (888) 408-0900 x901 ~| Archives: http://www.houseoffusion.com/lists.cfm?link=t:4 Subscription: http://www.houseoffusion.com/lists.cfm?link=s:4 Unsubscribe: http://www.houseoffusion.com/cf_lists/unsubscribe.cfm?user=89.70.4 Your ad could be here. Monies from ads go to support these lists and provide more resources for the community. http://www.fusionauthority.com/ads.cfm
Re: Mac usage [Re: CFC-based GPL web HTML editor]
> the last two numbers are the interesting ones IMHO -- used to be > graphic > designers used Mac, developers used PC (maybe with Linux on it, but > probably > Windows). Most of the Java developers I know are moving to Mac. I'd > head > there myself if I didn't spend 50-60% in MS-SQL developer world with > local > database servers (and I'm not real interested in running VirtualPC for > that) > The reason is simple; Mac OS X currently provides the best overall platform for Java developers. In fact, it was recently reported by the Java mothership, Sun, that most of their employees use Macs at home. Matt Liotta President & CEO Montara Software, Inc. http://www.MontaraSoftware.com (888) 408-0900 x901 ~| Archives: http://www.houseoffusion.com/lists.cfm?link=t:4 Subscription: http://www.houseoffusion.com/lists.cfm?link=s:4 Unsubscribe: http://www.houseoffusion.com/cf_lists/unsubscribe.cfm?user=89.70.4 Signup for the Fusion Authority news alert and keep up with the latest news in ColdFusion and related topics. http://www.fusionauthority.com/signup.cfm
Re: CFC-based GPL web HTML editor
>>So are you saying that 35-74 million users aren't worth your time? This is not the problem. WYSIWYG HTML editing is fairly easy thanks to many tools provided by both IE and Windows. Developing the same thing without them would be at least 10 times more work, and re-inventing the wheel. When developers of Linux, Macs and so on will make equivalent tools available, I'll be glad to use them. For the time being it's simply too time consuming. Same thing with Netscape 6+ : when they'll make a decent documentation about their Javascript implementation, I'll spend some time on cross browser functionalities. For the time being, I'm tired of having to guess how it works. ~| Archives: http://www.houseoffusion.com/lists.cfm?link=t:4 Subscription: http://www.houseoffusion.com/lists.cfm?link=s:4 Unsubscribe: http://www.houseoffusion.com/cf_lists/unsubscribe.cfm?user=89.70.4 Get the mailserver that powers this list at http://www.coolfusion.com
Re: CFC-based GPL web HTML editor
>>but people *do* use Macs Yes, 5% ;-) ~| Archives: http://www.houseoffusion.com/lists.cfm?link=t:4 Subscription: http://www.houseoffusion.com/lists.cfm?link=s:4 Unsubscribe: http://www.houseoffusion.com/cf_lists/unsubscribe.cfm?user=89.70.4 Get the mailserver that powers this list at http://www.coolfusion.com
Re: CFC-based GPL web HTML editor
> I don't think anyone is saying that they would purposefully break a > site > or use code that they new didn't work in one of various browser on the > Mac. Of course, we try to avoid that where ever possible. However, > every > browser/OS combination has its own set of bugs and idiosyncrasies. > Well this thread is about using a HTML editor that only works with IE 5.5 on Windows. Knowing that it seems like anyone making use of it is purposefully breaking a site. Matt Liotta President & CEO Montara Software, Inc. http://www.MontaraSoftware.com (888) 408-0900 x901 ~| Archives: http://www.houseoffusion.com/lists.cfm?link=t:4 Subscription: http://www.houseoffusion.com/lists.cfm?link=s:4 Unsubscribe: http://www.houseoffusion.com/cf_lists/unsubscribe.cfm?user=89.70.4 Your ad could be here. Monies from ads go to support these lists and provide more resources for the community. http://www.fusionauthority.com/ads.cfm
RE: CFC-based GPL web HTML editor
Wow. Call me old fashion by my proposals say: >Vendor will ensure that the site always appears as a good representation of >the client's company and brand in all major browsers. >*major modern browsers considered include: Internet Explorer 5+ for Mac >and PC, Netscape 4.5+ for Mac and PC, Mozilla for Mac & PC, Safari for >Mac, and Opera 5+ for Mac and PC I don't charge extra because I consider it part of my job. Adam Wayne Lehman Web Systems Developer Johns Hopkins Bloomberg School of Public Health Distance Education Division -Original Message- From: Benjamin S. Rogers [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Tuesday, September 16, 2003 1:12 PM To: CF-Talk Subject: RE: CFC-based GPL web HTML editor > So are you saying that 35-74 million users aren't worth your time? There > are plenty of Javascript and Flash based WYSIWYGs. Even if you're numbers had some basis in reality, that's not what I'm saying. I'm saying that our customers are not willing to pay us to develop specifically for Macintosh browsers. It's a simple business decision. Our average proposal is about 15 pages long, and it explains browser support in depth about half way through. So far, no one has opted to pay us more to ensure compatibility on the Mac. Benjamin S. Rogers http://www.c4.net/ v.508.240.0051 f.508.240.0057 ~| Archives: http://www.houseoffusion.com/lists.cfm?link=t:4 Subscription: http://www.houseoffusion.com/lists.cfm?link=s:4 Unsubscribe: http://www.houseoffusion.com/cf_lists/unsubscribe.cfm?user=89.70.4 Signup for the Fusion Authority news alert and keep up with the latest news in ColdFusion and related topics. http://www.fusionauthority.com/signup.cfm
RE: CFC-based GPL web HTML editor
> It shouldn't take any of your development time to see that making use > of something that only works with a specific version of IE on Windows > isn't going to work for everyone. Just spend your time working on stuff > that is known to work for everyone. I don't think anyone is saying that they would purposefully break a site or use code that they new didn't work in one of various browser on the Mac. Of course, we try to avoid that where ever possible. However, every browser/OS combination has its own set of bugs and idiosyncrasies. For instance, it's my understanding that Internet Explorer on the Mac renders text at 96 dpi instead of the system 72 dpi. So, though I might use nothing but the paragraph tag, I can't possibly foresee what the site will look like. Benjamin S. Rogers http://www.c4.net/ v.508.240.0051 f.508.240.0057 ~| Archives: http://www.houseoffusion.com/lists.cfm?link=t:4 Subscription: http://www.houseoffusion.com/lists.cfm?link=s:4 Unsubscribe: http://www.houseoffusion.com/cf_lists/unsubscribe.cfm?user=89.70.4 This list and all House of Fusion resources hosted by CFHosting.com. The place for dependable ColdFusion Hosting. http://www.cfhosting.com
RE: CFC-based GPL web HTML editor
> So are you saying that 35-74 million users aren't worth your time? There > are plenty of Javascript and Flash based WYSIWYGs. Even if you're numbers had some basis in reality, that's not what I'm saying. I'm saying that our customers are not willing to pay us to develop specifically for Macintosh browsers. It's a simple business decision. Our average proposal is about 15 pages long, and it explains browser support in depth about half way through. So far, no one has opted to pay us more to ensure compatibility on the Mac. Benjamin S. Rogers http://www.c4.net/ v.508.240.0051 f.508.240.0057 ~| Archives: http://www.houseoffusion.com/lists.cfm?link=t:4 Subscription: http://www.houseoffusion.com/lists.cfm?link=s:4 Unsubscribe: http://www.houseoffusion.com/cf_lists/unsubscribe.cfm?user=89.70.4 Signup for the Fusion Authority news alert and keep up with the latest news in ColdFusion and related topics. http://www.fusionauthority.com/signup.cfm
RE: CFC-based GPL web HTML editor
> You can get an old iMac on Ebay for less than $200: Again, which combinations of OS and browsers will that iMac support? As you said, if we spend more, we can get an OS X box. However, we would have to buy both to get the majority of the combinations. Or, perhaps we could buy an OS X box, Virtual PC for the Mac and all the various OS licenses. That's still much more than $200, and I'd have to shove yet another box under my desk or make room for it on one of the racks -- but of course they don't rack mount. And, to be honest, we simply don't have anyone on staff familiar with either OS X or legacy Mac OSes. I wouldn't even know how to put the thing on the network. I'm sure I could figure it out, but designing Web sites which are compatible for the Mac is simply not a priority. It's not something our customers are willing to pay us for. So, we do what we do and hope for the best. Benjamin S. Rogers http://www.c4.net/ v.508.240.0051 f.508.240.0057 ~| Archives: http://www.houseoffusion.com/lists.cfm?link=t:4 Subscription: http://www.houseoffusion.com/lists.cfm?link=s:4 Unsubscribe: http://www.houseoffusion.com/cf_lists/unsubscribe.cfm?user=89.70.4 Signup for the Fusion Authority news alert and keep up with the latest news in ColdFusion and related topics. http://www.fusionauthority.com/signup.cfm
RE: CFC-based GPL web HTML editor
> There are Mac emulators. > There is also a web site (which I can't recall the > name of atm) that will take a screenshot of your > app using a variety of O/S and browsers, and email > them all back to you. Yes, NetMechanic does this. However, these are costs we'd have to pass off to the customer (both the third party fees and our time). In reality, most customers only care that the site looks good on their computer. We try to ensure that the site looks good on the vast majority of the computers on the Internet. We try and design the site so as not to preclude other browser/OS combinations. However, most customers do not care to pay us to test on the others. Benjamin S. Rogers http://www.c4.net/ v.508.240.0051 f.508.240.0057 ~| Archives: http://www.houseoffusion.com/lists.cfm?link=t:4 Subscription: http://www.houseoffusion.com/lists.cfm?link=s:4 Unsubscribe: http://www.houseoffusion.com/cf_lists/unsubscribe.cfm?user=89.70.4 Get the mailserver that powers this list at http://www.coolfusion.com
RE: CFC-based GPL web HTML editor
At 12:16 PM 9/16/03 -0400, Adam Wayne Lehman wrote: >Look, if only 100 people used the internet, then disregarding 5% would >be acceptable. 2004 projections for people online worldwide is 710-945 >million. >So are you saying that 35-74 million users aren't worth your time? There >are plenty of Javascript and Flash based WYSIWYGs. If I have 20 hours to complete a project, and 5% of my audience needs special work, then I have 1 hour to make sure it works on their systems. I'm not suggesting that I would purposely break the application on their systems, I'm saying that they have to respect the percentages. Besides, just because there are 710 million users, I really doubt they all come to my website. Maybe I only cater to 1000 of them. But that still isn't the issue - I have to make the system work for the majority of my users. It's like business. I'm sure that there are people who would like to buy a suit at 1AM. But since there are so few people like that, there are very few suit stores open then (at least where I live.) T Tired of your bookmarks/favourites being limited to one computer? Move them to the Net! www.stuffbythane.com/webfavourites makes it easy to keep all your favourites in one place and access them from any computer that's attached to the Internet. ~| Archives: http://www.houseoffusion.com/lists.cfm?link=t:4 Subscription: http://www.houseoffusion.com/lists.cfm?link=s:4 Unsubscribe: http://www.houseoffusion.com/cf_lists/unsubscribe.cfm?user=89.70.4 Your ad could be here. Monies from ads go to support these lists and provide more resources for the community. http://www.fusionauthority.com/ads.cfm
Re: CFC-based GPL web HTML editor
It shouldn't take any of your development time to see that making use of something that only works with a specific version of IE on Windows isn't going to work for everyone. Just spend your time working on stuff that is known to work for everyone. -Matt On Tuesday, September 16, 2003, at 11:57 AM, Thane Sherrington wrote: > At 11:37 AM 9/16/03 -0400, Adam Wayne Lehman wrote: >> Umm... I hate to break it to you, but people *do* use Macs, and you >> can't just ignore users just cuz they are a minority. > > That depends. If 5% of users are non-IE users, then I can't really > spend > more than 5% of my development time on making things work for them, can > I? That's the downside to the non-IE compatible browsers. Remember > when > word processors *had* to be WordStar file compatible? It's the same > thing > with browsers. I'm all for competition, but browser companies should > take > note of OpenOffice - it can read MS Word formats well, and that's > what's > making it successful. > > > T > > Tired of your bookmarks/favourites being limited to one computer? Move > them to the Net! > www.stuffbythane.com/webfavourites makes it easy to keep all your > favourites in one place and > access them from any computer that's attached to the Internet. > > ~| Archives: http://www.houseoffusion.com/lists.cfm?link=t:4 Subscription: http://www.houseoffusion.com/lists.cfm?link=s:4 Unsubscribe: http://www.houseoffusion.com/cf_lists/unsubscribe.cfm?user=89.70.4 Signup for the Fusion Authority news alert and keep up with the latest news in ColdFusion and related topics. http://www.fusionauthority.com/signup.cfm
RE: CFC-based GPL web HTML editor
Look, if only 100 people used the internet, then disregarding 5% would be acceptable. 2004 projections for people online worldwide is 710-945 million. So are you saying that 35-74 million users aren't worth your time? There are plenty of Javascript and Flash based WYSIWYGs. Adam Wayne Lehman Web Systems Developer Johns Hopkins Bloomberg School of Public Health Distance Education Division -Original Message- From: Thane Sherrington [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Tuesday, September 16, 2003 11:58 AM To: CF-Talk Subject: RE: CFC-based GPL web HTML editor At 11:37 AM 9/16/03 -0400, Adam Wayne Lehman wrote: >Umm... I hate to break it to you, but people *do* use Macs, and you >can't just ignore users just cuz they are a minority. That depends. If 5% of users are non-IE users, then I can't really spend more than 5% of my development time on making things work for them, can I? That's the downside to the non-IE compatible browsers. Remember when word processors *had* to be WordStar file compatible? It's the same thing with browsers. I'm all for competition, but browser companies should take note of OpenOffice - it can read MS Word formats well, and that's what's making it successful. T Tired of your bookmarks/favourites being limited to one computer? Move them to the Net! www.stuffbythane.com/webfavourites makes it easy to keep all your favourites in one place and access them from any computer that's attached to the Internet. ~| Archives: http://www.houseoffusion.com/lists.cfm?link=t:4 Subscription: http://www.houseoffusion.com/lists.cfm?link=s:4 Unsubscribe: http://www.houseoffusion.com/cf_lists/unsubscribe.cfm?user=89.70.4 Your ad could be here. Monies from ads go to support these lists and provide more resources for the community. http://www.fusionauthority.com/ads.cfm
Re: CFC-based GPL web HTML editor
You can get an old iMac on Ebay for less than $200: http://search.ebay.com/search/search.dll?cgiurl=http%3A%2F%2Fcgi.ebay.com%2Fws%2F&krd=1&from=R8&MfcISAPICommand=GetResult&ht=1&SortProperty=MetaEndSort&query=iMac You don't need anything more if you're just going to be testing web pages. That, and you can get a moderately more expensive one with OS X if you want to check modern performance (have to be OS X.2 for Safari). Apple doesn't release an OS for x86 so they don't have to deal with a bazillion components and associated drivers. It's like complaining you can't install IRIX on your old Compaq to see how your site looks in Netscape on it. - Jim Benjamin S. Rogers wrote: Win IE5.5 required = unusable. >>... by about 5% users... >> >> > >Even less, last time I looked. And then divide that by all of the >various browsers used on the Mac (Safari, several different Gecko based >browsers, Internet Explorer, Opera, etc.). To further complicate things, >we can't just install a Mac OS onto an old x86 box for testing purposes >(or, even better, use Virtual PC). Instead, we would have to invest a >substantial amount of money into a machine we have no intention of using >for anything else. > >In the end, we try to design our sites to be as standards compliant as >possible, try to make them degrade as gracefully as possible in older >browsers (Netscape 4, Internet Explorer 4, etc.), and hope for the best >everywhere else. Of course, the first two are often mutually exclusive. >In which case, standards be damned, we're going to make our customers' >sites look as good as possible in as many browsers as we reasonably can. > >Benjamin S. Rogers >http://www.c4.net/ >v.508.240.0051 >f.508.240.0057 > > ~| Archives: http://www.houseoffusion.com/lists.cfm?link=t:4 Subscription: http://www.houseoffusion.com/lists.cfm?link=s:4 Unsubscribe: http://www.houseoffusion.com/cf_lists/unsubscribe.cfm?user=89.70.4 Get the mailserver that powers this list at http://www.coolfusion.com
RE: CFC-based GPL web HTML editor
> >>Win IE5.5 required = unusable. > > ... by about 5% users... Even less, last time I looked. And then divide that by all of the various browsers used on the Mac (Safari, several different Gecko based browsers, Internet Explorer, Opera, etc.). To further complicate things, we can't just install a Mac OS onto an old x86 box for testing purposes (or, even better, use Virtual PC). Instead, we would have to invest a substantial amount of money into a machine we have no intention of using for anything else. In the end, we try to design our sites to be as standards compliant as possible, try to make them degrade as gracefully as possible in older browsers (Netscape 4, Internet Explorer 4, etc.), and hope for the best everywhere else. Of course, the first two are often mutually exclusive. In which case, standards be damned, we're going to make our customers' sites look as good as possible in as many browsers as we reasonably can. Benjamin S. Rogers http://www.c4.net/ v.508.240.0051 f.508.240.0057 ~| Archives: http://www.houseoffusion.com/lists.cfm?link=t:4 Subscription: http://www.houseoffusion.com/lists.cfm?link=s:4 Unsubscribe: http://www.houseoffusion.com/cf_lists/unsubscribe.cfm?user=89.70.4 Your ad could be here. Monies from ads go to support these lists and provide more resources for the community. http://www.fusionauthority.com/ads.cfm
Re: CFC-based GPL web HTML editor
On Tuesday 16 Sep 2003 16:55 pm, Benjamin S. Rogers wrote: > (or, even better, use Virtual PC). Instead, we would have to invest a > substantial amount of money into a machine we have no intention of using > for anything else. There are Mac emulators. There is also a web site (which I can't recall the name of atm) that will take a screenshot of your app using a variety of O/S and browsers, and email them all back to you. -- Tom Chiverton (sorry 'bout sig.) Advanced ColdFusion Programmer Tel: +44(0)1749 834997 email: [EMAIL PROTECTED] BlueFinger Limited Underwood Business Park Wookey Hole Road, WELLS. BA5 1AF Tel: +44 (0)1749 834900 Fax: +44 (0)1749 834901 web: www.bluefinger.com Company Reg No: 4209395 Registered Office: 2 Temple Back East, Temple Quay, BRISTOL. BS1 6EG. *** This E-mail contains confidential information for the addressee only. If you are not the intended recipient, please notify us immediately. You should not use, disclose, distribute or copy this communication if received in error. No binding contract will result from this e-mail until such time as a written document is signed on behalf of the company. BlueFinger Limited cannot accept responsibility for the completeness or accuracy of this message as it has been transmitted over public networks.*** ~| Archives: http://www.houseoffusion.com/lists.cfm?link=t:4 Subscription: http://www.houseoffusion.com/lists.cfm?link=s:4 Unsubscribe: http://www.houseoffusion.com/cf_lists/unsubscribe.cfm?user=89.70.4 This list and all House of Fusion resources hosted by CFHosting.com. The place for dependable ColdFusion Hosting. http://www.cfhosting.com
RE: CFC-based GPL web HTML editor
At 11:37 AM 9/16/03 -0400, Adam Wayne Lehman wrote: >Umm... I hate to break it to you, but people *do* use Macs, and you >can't just ignore users just cuz they are a minority. That depends. If 5% of users are non-IE users, then I can't really spend more than 5% of my development time on making things work for them, can I? That's the downside to the non-IE compatible browsers. Remember when word processors *had* to be WordStar file compatible? It's the same thing with browsers. I'm all for competition, but browser companies should take note of OpenOffice - it can read MS Word formats well, and that's what's making it successful. T Tired of your bookmarks/favourites being limited to one computer? Move them to the Net! www.stuffbythane.com/webfavourites makes it easy to keep all your favourites in one place and access them from any computer that's attached to the Internet. ~| Archives: http://www.houseoffusion.com/lists.cfm?link=t:4 Subscription: http://www.houseoffusion.com/lists.cfm?link=s:4 Unsubscribe: http://www.houseoffusion.com/cf_lists/unsubscribe.cfm?user=89.70.4 Signup for the Fusion Authority news alert and keep up with the latest news in ColdFusion and related topics. http://www.fusionauthority.com/signup.cfm
Re: CFC-based GPL web HTML editor
Matt Liotta wrote: Win IE5.5 required = unusable. >>... by about 5% users... >> >> >> >That kind of perspective is how we got stuck with Microsoft in the >first place! > >Matt Liotta >President & CEO >Montara Software, Inc. >http://www.MontaraSoftware.com >(888) 408-0900 x901 > > > ~| Archives: http://www.houseoffusion.com/lists.cfm?link=t:4 Subscription: http://www.houseoffusion.com/lists.cfm?link=s:4 Unsubscribe: http://www.houseoffusion.com/cf_lists/unsubscribe.cfm?user=89.70.4 Get the mailserver that powers this list at http://www.coolfusion.com
Re: CFC-based GPL web HTML editor
>>> Win IE5.5 required = unusable. > > ... by about 5% users... > That kind of perspective is how we got stuck with Microsoft in the first place! Matt Liotta President & CEO Montara Software, Inc. http://www.MontaraSoftware.com (888) 408-0900 x901 ~| Archives: http://www.houseoffusion.com/lists.cfm?link=t:4 Subscription: http://www.houseoffusion.com/lists.cfm?link=s:4 Unsubscribe: http://www.houseoffusion.com/cf_lists/unsubscribe.cfm?user=89.70.4 This list and all House of Fusion resources hosted by CFHosting.com. The place for dependable ColdFusion Hosting. http://www.cfhosting.com
RE: CFC-based GPL web HTML editor
Umm... I hate to break it to you, but people *do* use Macs, and you can't just ignore users just cuz they are a minority. Adam Wayne Lehman Web Systems Developer Johns Hopkins Bloomberg School of Public Health Distance Education Division -Original Message- From: Claude Schneegans [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Tuesday, September 16, 2003 11:08 AM To: CF-Talk Subject: Re: CFC-based GPL web HTML editor >>Win IE5.5 required = unusable. ... by about 5% users... ~| Archives: http://www.houseoffusion.com/lists.cfm?link=t:4 Subscription: http://www.houseoffusion.com/lists.cfm?link=s:4 Unsubscribe: http://www.houseoffusion.com/cf_lists/unsubscribe.cfm?user=89.70.4 Get the mailserver that powers this list at http://www.coolfusion.com
Re: CFC-based GPL web HTML editor
>>Win IE5.5 required = unusable. ... by about 5% users... ~| Archives: http://www.houseoffusion.com/lists.cfm?link=t:4 Subscription: http://www.houseoffusion.com/lists.cfm?link=s:4 Unsubscribe: http://www.houseoffusion.com/cf_lists/unsubscribe.cfm?user=89.70.4 Get the mailserver that powers this list at http://www.coolfusion.com
RE: CFC-based GPL web HTML editor
LOL. She's my new office mate! Adam Wayne Lehman Web Systems Developer Johns Hopkins Bloomberg School of Public Health Distance Education Division -Original Message- From: Jim Davis [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Tuesday, September 16, 2003 10:40 AM To: CF-Talk Subject: RE: CFC-based GPL web HTML editor > -Original Message- > From: Adam Wayne Lehman [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] > Sent: Tuesday, September 16, 2003 9:36 AM > To: CF-Talk > Subject: RE: CFC-based GPL web HTML editor > > Win IE5.5 required = unusable. ...unless you have IE 5.5+ ;^) But I agree in theory - however this would make lots of sense for a controlled environment (Intranet or Administration system) that featured IE as a standard. However it IS an open-source project: those interested may undertake their own project to test it on other platforms and make the needed adjustments. (As an aside - a good friend of mine just got accepted at John Hopkins in a web position, not sure what department. She starts in a week or so, Karin Horlbeck? Know her?) Jim Davis ~| Archives: http://www.houseoffusion.com/lists.cfm?link=t:4 Subscription: http://www.houseoffusion.com/lists.cfm?link=s:4 Unsubscribe: http://www.houseoffusion.com/cf_lists/unsubscribe.cfm?user=89.70.4 Get the mailserver that powers this list at http://www.coolfusion.com
RE: CFC-based GPL web HTML editor
> -Original Message- > From: Adam Wayne Lehman [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] > Sent: Tuesday, September 16, 2003 9:36 AM > To: CF-Talk > Subject: RE: CFC-based GPL web HTML editor > > Win IE5.5 required = unusable. ...unless you have IE 5.5+ ;^) But I agree in theory - however this would make lots of sense for a controlled environment (Intranet or Administration system) that featured IE as a standard. However it IS an open-source project: those interested may undertake their own project to test it on other platforms and make the needed adjustments. (As an aside - a good friend of mine just got accepted at John Hopkins in a web position, not sure what department. She starts in a week or so, Karin Horlbeck? Know her?) Jim Davis ~| Archives: http://www.houseoffusion.com/lists.cfm?link=t:4 Subscription: http://www.houseoffusion.com/lists.cfm?link=s:4 Unsubscribe: http://www.houseoffusion.com/cf_lists/unsubscribe.cfm?user=89.70.4 Signup for the Fusion Authority news alert and keep up with the latest news in ColdFusion and related topics. http://www.fusionauthority.com/signup.cfm
RE: CFC-based GPL web HTML editor
I'll definetly check it out. I had thought of doing the same. Thanks MGA. DRE -Original Message- From: Adam Wayne Lehman [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Tuesday, September 16, 2003 7:36 AM To: CF-Talk Subject: RE: CFC-based GPL web HTML editor Win IE5.5 required = unusable. Adam Wayne Lehman Web Systems Developer Johns Hopkins Bloomberg School of Public Health Distance Education Division -Original Message- From: Mauricio Giraldo [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Monday, September 15, 2003 6:09 PM To: CF-Talk Subject: OT: CFC-based GPL web HTML editor Hi Just wanted to let you know we have posted on SourceForge a WYSIWYG web-based HTML Editor. It is in Beta development right now. It is quite stable and I'm sure you will find it useful (we looked all over the web for a good CF web editor and all are quite costly so we decided to port a really good PHP-based editor). It uses CFC so CFMX is required. It will work in shared server environments. Win MSIE 5.5+ required. If you want to contribute/submit bugs/whatever just post your messages in the corresponding SourceForge forums for the project. The project summary is in: http://sourceforge.net/projects/spaw-cf Regards - mga (Non-commercial only for now) _ Try MSN Messenger 6.0 with integrated webcam functionality! http://www.msnmessenger-download.com/tracking/reach_webcam ~| Archives: http://www.houseoffusion.com/lists.cfm?link=t:4 Subscription: http://www.houseoffusion.com/lists.cfm?link=s:4 Unsubscribe: http://www.houseoffusion.com/cf_lists/unsubscribe.cfm?user=89.70.4 Your ad could be here. Monies from ads go to support these lists and provide more resources for the community. http://www.fusionauthority.com/ads.cfm
RE: CFC-based GPL web HTML editor
Win IE5.5 required = unusable. Adam Wayne Lehman Web Systems Developer Johns Hopkins Bloomberg School of Public Health Distance Education Division -Original Message- From: Mauricio Giraldo [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Monday, September 15, 2003 6:09 PM To: CF-Talk Subject: OT: CFC-based GPL web HTML editor Hi Just wanted to let you know we have posted on SourceForge a WYSIWYG web-based HTML Editor. It is in Beta development right now. It is quite stable and I'm sure you will find it useful (we looked all over the web for a good CF web editor and all are quite costly so we decided to port a really good PHP-based editor). It uses CFC so CFMX is required. It will work in shared server environments. Win MSIE 5.5+ required. If you want to contribute/submit bugs/whatever just post your messages in the corresponding SourceForge forums for the project. The project summary is in: http://sourceforge.net/projects/spaw-cf Regards - mga (Non-commercial only for now) _ Try MSN Messenger 6.0 with integrated webcam functionality! http://www.msnmessenger-download.com/tracking/reach_webcam ~| Archives: http://www.houseoffusion.com/lists.cfm?link=t:4 Subscription: http://www.houseoffusion.com/lists.cfm?link=s:4 Unsubscribe: http://www.houseoffusion.com/cf_lists/unsubscribe.cfm?user=89.70.4 Signup for the Fusion Authority news alert and keep up with the latest news in ColdFusion and related topics. http://www.fusionauthority.com/signup.cfm
