RE: Subject: MM will OWN my Devex Submissions?
I think you're right to be concerned. I remember when Apple did this with their online iDisk accounts and Yahoo with their Geocities accounts. In all these cases we can guess that the intent is that they just need to have the right to copy and redistribute the material which is the purpose of the DevEx. But the problems arise with the phrases perpetual, irrevocable, and modify. I'll leave create derivative works up to the jury here though in my opinion it's pretty significant. A basic tenet of copyright law is that the creator is granted automatic copyright. The submission requirements you pointed out appear to do more than just grant a limited right to copy to Macromedia for the purposes of operating the DevEx. It appears that agreeing to them constitutes a complete signing over of copyright ownership to Macromedia. That means they can call it their own and resell it at a profit without recompensing you. They can even integrate it into their own products without recompense. The question is how much of that is the purpose of the DevEx? We all use it to help our own projects, and MM shouldn't be any different. However, it seems to me that MM is in a somewhat unique position by having the ability to integrate submissions into products like Dreamweaver. Is there a difference though between keeping the code and ownership intact and bundling it or the alternative of taking the code concepts and creating a derivative work they call their own and make a profit on? The community persuaded Apple to change their policy. It's up to the community to make Macromedia change theirs. I'm not a lawyer, but I suspect a lawyer would tell you to run, not walk, away from the DevEx based on the current terms. -Kevin -Original Message- From: Tom Sammons [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Friday, March 07, 2003 4:38 PM To: CF-Talk Subject: Subject: MM will OWN my Devex Submissions? Jeez, I wasn't going to post anything regarding all the MM site changes because there was so much traffic here about it, but I logged into the CF DevEx and found that a few of my submissions were missing. So, I went a step further to see what the new submission areas looked like, and there was the following in the submission agreement: (d) Commercial Submission Only: With respect to the Commercial Submission only, You hereby grant Macromedia a perpetual, irrevocable, royalty-free and worldwide license to use, test, copy, modify, create derivative works of, publicly display, publicly perform or demonstrate the Submission, and/or place a link to a website in connection with such Submission. Non-commercial Submission was very similar, if not the same (my eyes bugged out, I can't remember now 8-). I don't remember this before, but this sounds strikingly like the stuff that MS pulled when they were pushing a centralized storage product/service. Am I reading it wrong, or doesn't this say that I would be giving them licensed ownership (create derivative works of) whatever product or tag I might submit? Please, please correct me and tell me I am reading it wrong. Tom ~| Archives: http://www.houseoffusion.com/cf_lists/index.cfm?forumid=4 Subscription: http://www.houseoffusion.com/cf_lists/index.cfm?method=subscribeforumid=4 FAQ: http://www.thenetprofits.co.uk/coldfusion/faq Your ad could be here. Monies from ads go to support these lists and provide more resources for the community. http://www.fusionauthority.com/ads.cfm Unsubscribe: http://www.houseoffusion.com/cf_lists/unsubscribe.cfm?user=89.70.4
RE: Subject: MM will OWN my Devex Submissions?
Shouldn't this stuff be posted on macromedia 'list' at houseoffusion.com? I believe that's why that list exists...? This isn't code related (distribution of code, yes, code related, no). Just curious, ~Todd At 09:52 AM 3/10/2003 -0600, you wrote: I think you're right to be concerned. I remember when Apple did this with their online iDisk accounts and Yahoo with their Geocities accounts. In all these cases we can guess that the intent is that they just need to have the right to copy and redistribute the material which is the purpose of the DevEx. But the problems arise with the phrases perpetual, irrevocable, and modify. I'll leave create derivative works up to the jury here though in my opinion it's pretty significant. A basic tenet of copyright law is that the creator is granted automatic copyright. The submission requirements you pointed out appear to do more than just grant a limited right to copy to Macromedia for the purposes of operating the DevEx. It appears that agreeing to them constitutes a complete signing over of copyright ownership to Macromedia. That means they can call it their own and resell it at a profit without recompensing you. They can even integrate it into their own products without recompense. The question is how much of that is the purpose of the DevEx? We all use it to help our own projects, and MM shouldn't be any different. However, it seems to me that MM is in a somewhat unique position by having the ability to integrate submissions into products like Dreamweaver. Is there a difference though between keeping the code and ownership intact and bundling it or the alternative of taking the code concepts and creating a derivative work they call their own and make a profit on? The community persuaded Apple to change their policy. It's up to the community to make Macromedia change theirs. I'm not a lawyer, but I suspect a lawyer would tell you to run, not walk, away from the DevEx based on the current terms. -Kevin -- Todd Rafferty ([EMAIL PROTECTED]) - http://www.web-rat.com/ Team Macromedia Volunteer for ColdFusion http://www.macromedia.com/support/forums/team_macromedia/ http://www.devmx.com/ -- ~| Archives: http://www.houseoffusion.com/cf_lists/index.cfm?forumid=4 Subscription: http://www.houseoffusion.com/cf_lists/index.cfm?method=subscribeforumid=4 FAQ: http://www.thenetprofits.co.uk/coldfusion/faq This list and all House of Fusion resources hosted by CFHosting.com. The place for dependable ColdFusion Hosting. Unsubscribe: http://www.houseoffusion.com/cf_lists/unsubscribe.cfm?user=89.70.4
RE: Subject: MM will OWN my Devex Submissions?
If people are concerned about it, then it should be discussed everywhere. If they would rather ignore it, then it should be taken to some rarely traveled list that nobody is on. I've said my piece. -Kevin -Original Message- From: Todd [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Monday, March 10, 2003 9:56 AM To: CF-Talk Subject: RE: Subject: MM will OWN my Devex Submissions? Shouldn't this stuff be posted on macromedia 'list' at houseoffusion.com? I believe that's why that list exists...? This isn't code related (distribution of code, yes, code related, no). Just curious, ~Todd At 09:52 AM 3/10/2003 -0600, you wrote: I think you're right to be concerned. I remember when Apple did this with their online iDisk accounts and Yahoo with their Geocities accounts. In all these cases we can guess that the intent is that they just need to have the right to copy and redistribute the material which is the purpose of the DevEx. But the problems arise with the phrases perpetual, irrevocable, and modify. I'll leave create derivative works up to the jury here though in my opinion it's pretty significant. A basic tenet of copyright law is that the creator is granted automatic copyright. The submission requirements you pointed out appear to do more than just grant a limited right to copy to Macromedia for the purposes of operating the DevEx. It appears that agreeing to them constitutes a complete signing over of copyright ownership to Macromedia. That means they can call it their own and resell it at a profit without recompensing you. They can even integrate it into their own products without recompense. The question is how much of that is the purpose of the DevEx? We all use it to help our own projects, and MM shouldn't be any different. However, it seems to me that MM is in a somewhat unique position by having the ability to integrate submissions into products like Dreamweaver. Is there a difference though between keeping the code and ownership intact and bundling it or the alternative of taking the code concepts and creating a derivative work they call their own and make a profit on? The community persuaded Apple to change their policy. It's up to the community to make Macromedia change theirs. I'm not a lawyer, but I suspect a lawyer would tell you to run, not walk, away from the DevEx based on the current terms. -Kevin -- Todd Rafferty ([EMAIL PROTECTED]) - http://www.web-rat.com/ Team Macromedia Volunteer for ColdFusion http://www.macromedia.com/support/forums/team_macromedia/ http://www.devmx.com/ -- ~| Archives: http://www.houseoffusion.com/cf_lists/index.cfm?forumid=4 Subscription: http://www.houseoffusion.com/cf_lists/index.cfm?method=subscribeforumid=4 FAQ: http://www.thenetprofits.co.uk/coldfusion/faq Your ad could be here. Monies from ads go to support these lists and provide more resources for the community. http://www.fusionauthority.com/ads.cfm Unsubscribe: http://www.houseoffusion.com/cf_lists/unsubscribe.cfm?user=89.70.4
RE: Subject: MM will OWN my Devex Submissions?
Right, but putting it on the Macromedia list would actually get this in front of MORE Macromedians and actually request feedback from them. I'm not disagreeing with your statements at all in your previous emails and support you and others in getting this clarified with MM. I don't have anything up on Devex to care about tho and I have, in the past, gotten answers out of folks by posting on the Macromedia list... hell, better yet... track down JD (http://markme.com/jd/) and put the question to him directly. I'm sure he'll hunt down something. ~Todd At 10:30 AM 3/10/2003 -0600, you wrote: If people are concerned about it, then it should be discussed everywhere. If they would rather ignore it, then it should be taken to some rarely traveled list that nobody is on. I've said my piece. -Kevin -- Todd Rafferty ([EMAIL PROTECTED]) - http://www.web-rat.com/ Team Macromedia Volunteer for ColdFusion http://www.macromedia.com/support/forums/team_macromedia/ http://www.devmx.com/ -- ~| Archives: http://www.houseoffusion.com/cf_lists/index.cfm?forumid=4 Subscription: http://www.houseoffusion.com/cf_lists/index.cfm?method=subscribeforumid=4 FAQ: http://www.thenetprofits.co.uk/coldfusion/faq Your ad could be here. Monies from ads go to support these lists and provide more resources for the community. http://www.fusionauthority.com/ads.cfm Unsubscribe: http://www.houseoffusion.com/cf_lists/unsubscribe.cfm?user=89.70.4
RE: Subject: MM will OWN my Devex Submissions?
My take on the non-commercial side of the agreement is that MM or anyone else can do what they want with a non-commercial submission. My licensing terms are pretty broad: Use and distribute freely. No warranties express or implied. If I upload freebie code it really is alright with me if someone uses it. It would be the decent thing to do to acknowledge the original author - although I am not so naïve as to believe everyone does that. Still, an up-front statement that we aren't going to do the decent thing is effectively a slap at the developer who is doing the upload. The current wording may functionally get the job done but frankly it shows no class and an unambiguously aggressive intent in a resource whose central tenet is sharing and community assistance. Things like this generally happen when legal gets to do things without sufficient oversight. On the commercial side, if the right to distribute etc. only applies to works I *upload*, then this does not affect me as you cannot download something from the devex that I'm selling. This is implied in the final paragraph of the agreement but not expressly stated. This should be clarified promptly. Its a distraction nobody on either side of the fence needs. Matt Robertson [EMAIL PROTECTED] MSB Designs, Inc. http://mysecretbase.com -Original Message- From: Kevin Graeme [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Monday, March 10, 2003 7:53 AM To: CF-Talk Subject: RE: Subject: MM will OWN my Devex Submissions? I think you're right to be concerned. I remember when Apple did this with their online iDisk accounts and Yahoo with their Geocities accounts. In all these cases we can guess that the intent is that they just need to have the right to copy and redistribute the material which is the purpose of the DevEx. But the problems arise with the phrases perpetual, irrevocable, and modify. I'll leave create derivative works up to the jury here though in my opinion it's pretty significant. A basic tenet of copyright law is that the creator is granted automatic copyright. The submission requirements you pointed out appear to do more than just grant a limited right to copy to Macromedia for the purposes of operating the DevEx. It appears that agreeing to them constitutes a complete signing over of copyright ownership to Macromedia. That means they can call it their own and resell it at a profit without recompensing you. They can even integrate it into their own products without recompense. The question is how much of that is the purpose of the DevEx? We all use it to help our own projects, and MM shouldn't be any different. However, it seems to me that MM is in a somewhat unique position by having the ability to integrate submissions into products like Dreamweaver. Is there a difference though between keeping the code and ownership intact and bundling it or the alternative of taking the code concepts and creating a derivative work they call their own and make a profit on? The community persuaded Apple to change their policy. It's up to the community to make Macromedia change theirs. I'm not a lawyer, but I suspect a lawyer would tell you to run, not walk, away from the DevEx based on the current terms. -Kevin -Original Message- From: Tom Sammons [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Friday, March 07, 2003 4:38 PM To: CF-Talk Subject: Subject: MM will OWN my Devex Submissions? Jeez, I wasn't going to post anything regarding all the MM site changes because there was so much traffic here about it, but I logged into the CF DevEx and found that a few of my submissions were missing. So, I went a step further to see what the new submission areas looked like, and there was the following in the submission agreement: (d) Commercial Submission Only: With respect to the Commercial Submission only, You hereby grant Macromedia a perpetual, irrevocable, royalty-free and worldwide license to use, test, copy, modify, create derivative works of, publicly display, publicly perform or demonstrate the Submission, and/or place a link to a website in connection with such Submission. Non-commercial Submission was very similar, if not the same (my eyes bugged out, I can't remember now 8-). I don't remember this before, but this sounds strikingly like the stuff that MS pulled when they were pushing a centralized storage product/service. Am I reading it wrong, or doesn't this say that I would be giving them licensed ownership (create derivative works of) whatever product or tag I might submit? Please, please correct me and tell me I am reading it wrong. Tom ~| Archives: http://www.houseoffusion.com/cf_lists/index.cfm?forumid=4 Subscription: http://www.houseoffusion.com/cf_lists/index.cfm?method=subscribeforumid=4 FAQ: http://www.thenetprofits.co.uk/coldfusion/faq
Re: Subject: MM will OWN my Devex Submissions?
I think you're right to be concerned. I remember when Apple did this with their online iDisk accounts and Yahoo with their Geocities accounts. In all these cases we can guess that the intent is that they just need to have the right to copy and redistribute the material which is the purpose of the DevEx. But the problems arise with the phrases perpetual, irrevocable, and modify. I'll leave create derivative works up to the jury here though in my opinion it's pretty significant. You are right that some of terms are necessary in order for us to legally operate the Exchange, and some are meant as protection against being sued in the event that we include features in future versions of our products which are similar to features that that were enabled through code uploaded into the Exchange. Basically, it's a simple precaution. Lawyers leave nothing to chance. Christian ~| Archives: http://www.houseoffusion.com/cf_lists/index.cfm?forumid=4 Subscription: http://www.houseoffusion.com/cf_lists/index.cfm?method=subscribeforumid=4 FAQ: http://www.thenetprofits.co.uk/coldfusion/faq Your ad could be here. Monies from ads go to support these lists and provide more resources for the community. http://www.fusionauthority.com/ads.cfm Unsubscribe: http://www.houseoffusion.com/cf_lists/unsubscribe.cfm?user=89.70.4
Re: Subject: MM will OWN my Devex Submissions?
You are right that some of terms are necessary in order for us to legally operate the Exchange, and some are meant as protection against being sued in the event that we include features in future versions of our products which are similar to features that that were enabled through code uploaded into the Exchange. Basically, it's a simple precaution. Lawyers leave nothing to chance. Christian, the whole DW's community keep complaining about this since years. It's one of the reasons why a few developers stopped uploading to the Exchange and other (including me), carefully choose what to upload and what not. Last year I won an award for the best DW MX's extension, I was asked to upload it to the Exchange, but I refused due to that crappy license: http://www.macromedia.com/software/dreamweaver/special/extensions/ Actually I have an improved version of the extension, but it's not going to be on the Exchange unless you make significant changes to the license... It's a shame, both for me and MM I don't want to attack you or MM, usually I would avoid posting something like this in a public forum, but we started complaining the first week the Exchange was launched, 3 years later nothing as changed... Instead you are extending the license to the CF Exchange as well! Again, I don't want to attack anybody, I just think the community at large deserve to know some background info Best Massimo Foti Team Macromedia Volunteer for Dreamweaver Certified Dreamweaver MX Developer Certified Advanced ColdFusion MX Developer http://www.macromedia.com/go/team ~| Archives: http://www.houseoffusion.com/cf_lists/index.cfm?forumid=4 Subscription: http://www.houseoffusion.com/cf_lists/index.cfm?method=subscribeforumid=4 FAQ: http://www.thenetprofits.co.uk/coldfusion/faq Your ad could be here. Monies from ads go to support these lists and provide more resources for the community. http://www.fusionauthority.com/ads.cfm Unsubscribe: http://www.houseoffusion.com/cf_lists/unsubscribe.cfm?user=89.70.4
Re: Subject: MM will OWN my Devex Submissions?
I certainly understand and appreciate your concerns. As I posted earlier, the language is a precaution, but I did not explain what we are protecting ourselves from. The point of the language is to protect Macromedia from lots of little law suits. Language like this is necessary in situations where there are so many pieces in intellectual property changing hands on such a frequent basis. If the language was in some way ambiguous and did not fully protect Macromedia, one could imagine a scenario where one developer successfully sued Macromedia for something trivial (for instance, making a quick bug fix to piece of code before posting it) which could open the door for hundreds more similar law suits. The reality is that there are a lot of people out there looking for a way to make a quick buck by abusing the system, and it is imperative that we protect ourselves, even if that means that some people are not willing to participate. That said, I have passed this thread along internally, so the right people are aware of your concerns. I have absolutely no idea if any changes can be made, but I have made sure that your points have been made. Christian On Monday, March 10, 2003, at 04:16 PM, Massimo, Tiziana e Federica wrote: You are right that some of terms are necessary in order for us to legally operate the Exchange, and some are meant as protection against being sued in the event that we include features in future versions of our products which are similar to features that that were enabled through code uploaded into the Exchange. Basically, it's a simple precaution. Lawyers leave nothing to chance. Christian, the whole DW's community keep complaining about this since years. It's one of the reasons why a few developers stopped uploading to the Exchange and other (including me), carefully choose what to upload and what not. Last year I won an award for the best DW MX's extension, I was asked to upload it to the Exchange, but I refused due to that crappy license: http://www.macromedia.com/software/dreamweaver/special/extensions/ Actually I have an improved version of the extension, but it's not going to be on the Exchange unless you make significant changes to the license... It's a shame, both for me and MM I don't want to attack you or MM, usually I would avoid posting something like this in a public forum, but we started complaining the first week the Exchange was launched, 3 years later nothing as changed... Instead you are extending the license to the CF Exchange as well! Again, I don't want to attack anybody, I just think the community at large deserve to know some background info Best Massimo Foti Team Macromedia Volunteer for Dreamweaver Certified Dreamweaver MX Developer Certified Advanced ColdFusion MX Developer http://www.macromedia.com/go/team ~| Archives: http://www.houseoffusion.com/cf_lists/index.cfm?forumid=4 Subscription: http://www.houseoffusion.com/cf_lists/index.cfm?method=subscribeforumid=4 FAQ: http://www.thenetprofits.co.uk/coldfusion/faq Structure your ColdFusion code with Fusebox. Get the official book at http://www.fusionauthority.com/bkinfo.cfm Unsubscribe: http://www.houseoffusion.com/cf_lists/unsubscribe.cfm?user=89.70.4
Re: Subject: MM will OWN my Devex Submissions?
Yes, we are aware of the Dreamweaver community's concerns on this matter. mike chambers [EMAIL PROTECTED] - Original Message - From: Massimo, Tiziana e Federica [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: CF-Talk [EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Monday, March 10, 2003 4:16 PM Subject: Re: Subject: MM will OWN my Devex Submissions? You are right that some of terms are necessary in order for us to legally operate the Exchange, and some are meant as protection against being sued in the event that we include features in future versions of our products which are similar to features that that were enabled through code uploaded into the Exchange. Basically, it's a simple precaution. Lawyers leave nothing to chance. Christian, the whole DW's community keep complaining about this since years. It's one of the reasons why a few developers stopped uploading to the Exchange and other (including me), carefully choose what to upload and what not. Last year I won an award for the best DW MX's extension, I was asked to upload it to the Exchange, but I refused due to that crappy license: http://www.macromedia.com/software/dreamweaver/special/extensions/ Actually I have an improved version of the extension, but it's not going to be on the Exchange unless you make significant changes to the license... It's a shame, both for me and MM I don't want to attack you or MM, usually I would avoid posting something like this in a public forum, but we started complaining the first week the Exchange was launched, 3 years later nothing as changed... Instead you are extending the license to the CF Exchange as well! Again, I don't want to attack anybody, I just think the community at large deserve to know some background info Best Massimo Foti Team Macromedia Volunteer for Dreamweaver Certified Dreamweaver MX Developer Certified Advanced ColdFusion MX Developer http://www.macromedia.com/go/team ~| Archives: http://www.houseoffusion.com/cf_lists/index.cfm?forumid=4 Subscription: http://www.houseoffusion.com/cf_lists/index.cfm?method=subscribeforumid=4 FAQ: http://www.thenetprofits.co.uk/coldfusion/faq This list and all House of Fusion resources hosted by CFHosting.com. The place for dependable ColdFusion Hosting. Unsubscribe: http://www.houseoffusion.com/cf_lists/unsubscribe.cfm?user=89.70.4
Re: Subject: MM will OWN my Devex Submissions?
Tom Sammons wrote: So, I went a step further to see what the new submission areas looked like, and there was the following in the submission agreement: (d) Commercial Submission Only: With respect to the Commercial Submission only, You hereby grant Macromedia a perpetual, irrevocable, royalty-free and worldwide license to use, test, copy, modify, create derivative works of, publicly display, publicly perform or demonstrate the Submission, and/or place a link to a website in connection with such Submission. Am I reading it wrong, or doesn't this say that I would be giving them licensed ownership (create derivative works of) whatever product or tag I might submit? I think you are reading this correctly. However, there is a distinction between a license to create derivative works and a license to redistribute those derivative works. Jochem ~| Archives: http://www.houseoffusion.com/cf_lists/index.cfm?forumid=4 Subscription: http://www.houseoffusion.com/cf_lists/index.cfm?method=subscribeforumid=4 FAQ: http://www.thenetprofits.co.uk/coldfusion/faq Your ad could be here. Monies from ads go to support these lists and provide more resources for the community. http://www.fusionauthority.com/ads.cfm Unsubscribe: http://www.houseoffusion.com/cf_lists/unsubscribe.cfm?user=89.70.4
Re: Subject: MM will OWN my Devex Submissions?
Jochem wrote: I think you are reading this correctly. However, there is a distinction between a license to create derivative works and a license to redistribute those derivative works. In reading this it seems that the term copy could be used to provide those distribution rights, that would have to be determined in a court case. We need this clarified by Macromedia, pretty much immediately. Is this correct as reported? If so it could be a serious problem. --- Matt Robertson, [EMAIL PROTECTED] MSB Designs, Inc. http://mysecretbase.com --- -- Original Message -- From: Jochem van Dieten [EMAIL PROTECTED] Reply-To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] date: Fri, 07 Mar 2003 23:49:56 +0100 Tom Sammons wrote: So, I went a step further to see what the new submission areas looked like, and there was the following in the submission agreement: (d) Commercial Submission Only: With respect to the Commercial Submission only, You hereby grant Macromedia a perpetual, irrevocable, royalty-free and worldwide license to use, test, copy, modify, create derivative works of, publicly display, publicly perform or demonstrate the Submission, and/or place a link to a website in connection with such Submission. Am I reading it wrong, or doesn't this say that I would be giving them licensed ownership (create derivative works of) whatever product or tag I might submit? I think you are reading this correctly. However, there is a distinction between a license to create derivative works and a license to redistribute those derivative works. Jochem ~| Archives: http://www.houseoffusion.com/cf_lists/index.cfm?forumid=4 Subscription: http://www.houseoffusion.com/cf_lists/index.cfm?method=subscribeforumid=4 FAQ: http://www.thenetprofits.co.uk/coldfusion/faq This list and all House of Fusion resources hosted by CFHosting.com. The place for dependable ColdFusion Hosting. Unsubscribe: http://www.houseoffusion.com/cf_lists/unsubscribe.cfm?user=89.70.4
Re: Subject: MM will OWN my Devex Submissions?
Good grief. Here is the relevant excerpt from the license agreement. This wasn't there in the past. My cms uses and includes an ActivEdit license. The license claims I have granted MM the right to use my product's contents for free, and they have expressly made me liable for any licensing fees owed for said use (see the bottom paragraph). I can live with the non-commercial part -- thats why I upload stuff in the first place. However acknowledgement should be granted with regard to the work's origination. Mention of this is absent. The final paragraph implies that the preceding para's only take effect if an upload off of MM's servers is the situation, meaning if you force a download from your own site you retain your rights. However this is vague and could be construed against the developer. *WTF*?? -- (b) You will indemnify and hold Macromedia harmless from any claim related to the Submission including any claim by a third party that the Submission infringes any copyright, patent, trademark, trade secret, rights of privacy or publicity or any other intellectual property right. Your obligation to indemnify Macromedia excludes any claims based on Macromedia-authored software. (c) Non-commercial Submission Only: With respect to the Non-commercial Submission only, You hereby grant Macromedia a perpetual, irrevocable, royalty-free and worldwide license to use, test, copy, modify, create derivative works of, publicly display, publicly perform, distribute, license, sublicense, offer to sell, sell, rent, lease or lend the Submission. (d) Commercial Submission Only: With respect to the Commercial Submission only, You hereby grant Macromedia a perpetual, irrevocable, royalty-free and worldwide license to use, test, copy, modify, create derivative works of, publicly display, publicly perform or demonstrate the Submission, and/or place a link to a website in connection with such Submission. IF YOU DO NOT OWN OR HAVE RIGHTS TO EVERY ELEMENT OF YOUR SUBMISSIONS (EXCLUDING ANY MACROMEDIA-AUTHORED SOFTWARE), DO NOT UPLOAD THE SUBMISSIONS TO MACROMEDIA. YOU WILL BE FINANCIALLY LIABLE TO ANY THIRD PARTY THAT OWNS ANY ELEMENT OF YOUR EXTENSIONS! ~| Archives: http://www.houseoffusion.com/cf_lists/index.cfm?forumid=4 Subscription: http://www.houseoffusion.com/cf_lists/index.cfm?method=subscribeforumid=4 FAQ: http://www.thenetprofits.co.uk/coldfusion/faq Structure your ColdFusion code with Fusebox. Get the official book at http://www.fusionauthority.com/bkinfo.cfm Unsubscribe: http://www.houseoffusion.com/cf_lists/unsubscribe.cfm?user=89.70.4
Re: Subject: MM will OWN my Devex Submissions?
You can request MM to remove your code, and if you still wish to share it there are a number of alternative CF related sites on which to upload it without giving up your intellectual property. Or market it yourself. MM markets Dev Exchange for a subscription fee - which means it has to have license to distribute all the content for which they are charging a fee. = Douglas White group Manager mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] http://www.samcfug.org = - Original Message - From: Matt Robertson [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: CF-Talk [EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Friday, March 07, 2003 6:17 PM Subject: Re: Subject: MM will OWN my Devex Submissions? | Good grief. Here is the relevant excerpt from the license agreement. This wasn't there in the past. | | My cms uses and includes an ActivEdit license. The license claims I have granted MM the right to use my product's contents for free, and they have expressly made me liable for any licensing fees owed for said use (see the bottom paragraph). | | I can live with the non-commercial part -- thats why I upload stuff in the first place. However acknowledgement should be granted with regard to the work's origination. Mention of this is absent. | | The final paragraph implies that the preceding para's only take effect if an upload off of MM's servers is the situation, meaning if you force a download from your own site you retain your rights. However this is vague and could be construed against the developer. | | *WTF*?? | | -- | | (b) You will indemnify and hold Macromedia harmless from any claim related to the Submission including any claim by a third party that the Submission infringes any copyright, patent, trademark, trade secret, rights of privacy or publicity or any other intellectual property right. Your obligation to indemnify Macromedia excludes any claims based on Macromedia-authored software. | | (c) Non-commercial Submission Only: With respect to the Non-commercial Submission only, You hereby grant Macromedia a perpetual, irrevocable, royalty-free and worldwide license to use, test, copy, modify, create derivative works of, publicly display, publicly perform, distribute, license, sublicense, offer to sell, sell, rent, lease or lend the Submission. | | (d) Commercial Submission Only: With respect to the Commercial Submission only, You hereby grant Macromedia a perpetual, irrevocable, royalty-free and worldwide license to use, test, copy, modify, create derivative works of, publicly display, publicly perform or demonstrate the Submission, and/or place a link to a website in connection with such Submission. | | IF YOU DO NOT OWN OR HAVE RIGHTS TO EVERY ELEMENT OF YOUR SUBMISSIONS (EXCLUDING ANY MACROMEDIA-AUTHORED SOFTWARE), DO NOT UPLOAD THE SUBMISSIONS TO MACROMEDIA. YOU WILL BE FINANCIALLY LIABLE TO ANY THIRD PARTY THAT OWNS ANY ELEMENT OF YOUR EXTENSIONS! | | | | ~| Archives: http://www.houseoffusion.com/cf_lists/index.cfm?forumid=4 Subscription: http://www.houseoffusion.com/cf_lists/index.cfm?method=subscribeforumid=4 FAQ: http://www.thenetprofits.co.uk/coldfusion/faq Signup for the Fusion Authority news alert and keep up with the latest news in ColdFusion and related topics. http://www.fusionauthority.com/signup.cfm Unsubscribe: http://www.houseoffusion.com/cf_lists/unsubscribe.cfm?user=89.70.4
Re: Subject: MM will OWN my Devex Submissions?
We need this clarified by Macromedia, pretty much immediately. Is this correct as reported? If so it could be a serious problem. I would just to let you know that DW's extension developers keep asking for changes to that license since the first day the DW's Exchange was launched (no joy so far) Massimo Foti Team Macromedia Volunteer for Dreamweaver Certified Dreamweaver MX Developer Certified Advanced ColdFusion MX Developer http://www.macromedia.com/go/team ~| Archives: http://www.houseoffusion.com/cf_lists/index.cfm?forumid=4 Subscription: http://www.houseoffusion.com/cf_lists/index.cfm?method=subscribeforumid=4 FAQ: http://www.thenetprofits.co.uk/coldfusion/faq Your ad could be here. Monies from ads go to support these lists and provide more resources for the community. http://www.fusionauthority.com/ads.cfm Unsubscribe: http://www.houseoffusion.com/cf_lists/unsubscribe.cfm?user=89.70.4
Re: Subject: MM will OWN my Devex Submissions?
A subscription fee??!! Is that new? I've never paid and never been asked to login -confused on Friday ;-) Bryan Stevenson B.Comm. VP Director of E-Commerce Development Electric Edge Systems Group Inc. t. 250.920.8830 e. [EMAIL PROTECTED] - Macromedia Associate Partner www.macromedia.com - Vancouver Island ColdFusion Users Group Founder Director www.cfug-vancouverisland.com - Original Message - From: samcfug [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: CF-Talk [EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Friday, March 07, 2003 4:54 PM Subject: Re: Subject: MM will OWN my Devex Submissions? You can request MM to remove your code, and if you still wish to share it there are a number of alternative CF related sites on which to upload it without giving up your intellectual property. Or market it yourself. MM markets Dev Exchange for a subscription fee - which means it has to have license to distribute all the content for which they are charging a fee. = Douglas White group Manager mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] http://www.samcfug.org = - Original Message - From: Matt Robertson [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: CF-Talk [EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Friday, March 07, 2003 6:17 PM Subject: Re: Subject: MM will OWN my Devex Submissions? | Good grief. Here is the relevant excerpt from the license agreement. This wasn't there in the past. | | My cms uses and includes an ActivEdit license. The license claims I have granted MM the right to use my product's contents for free, and they have expressly made me liable for any licensing fees owed for said use (see the bottom paragraph). | | I can live with the non-commercial part -- thats why I upload stuff in the first place. However acknowledgement should be granted with regard to the work's origination. Mention of this is absent. | | The final paragraph implies that the preceding para's only take effect if an upload off of MM's servers is the situation, meaning if you force a download from your own site you retain your rights. However this is vague and could be construed against the developer. | | *WTF*?? | | -- | | (b) You will indemnify and hold Macromedia harmless from any claim related to the Submission including any claim by a third party that the Submission infringes any copyright, patent, trademark, trade secret, rights of privacy or publicity or any other intellectual property right. Your obligation to indemnify Macromedia excludes any claims based on Macromedia-authored software. | | (c) Non-commercial Submission Only: With respect to the Non-commercial Submission only, You hereby grant Macromedia a perpetual, irrevocable, royalty-free and worldwide license to use, test, copy, modify, create derivative works of, publicly display, publicly perform, distribute, license, sublicense, offer to sell, sell, rent, lease or lend the Submission. | | (d) Commercial Submission Only: With respect to the Commercial Submission only, You hereby grant Macromedia a perpetual, irrevocable, royalty-free and worldwide license to use, test, copy, modify, create derivative works of, publicly display, publicly perform or demonstrate the Submission, and/or place a link to a website in connection with such Submission. | | IF YOU DO NOT OWN OR HAVE RIGHTS TO EVERY ELEMENT OF YOUR SUBMISSIONS (EXCLUDING ANY MACROMEDIA-AUTHORED SOFTWARE), DO NOT UPLOAD THE SUBMISSIONS TO MACROMEDIA. YOU WILL BE FINANCIALLY LIABLE TO ANY THIRD PARTY THAT OWNS ANY ELEMENT OF YOUR EXTENSIONS! | | | | ~| Archives: http://www.houseoffusion.com/cf_lists/index.cfm?forumid=4 Subscription: http://www.houseoffusion.com/cf_lists/index.cfm?method=subscribeforumid=4 FAQ: http://www.thenetprofits.co.uk/coldfusion/faq This list and all House of Fusion resources hosted by CFHosting.com. The place for dependable ColdFusion Hosting. Unsubscribe: http://www.houseoffusion.com/cf_lists/unsubscribe.cfm?user=89.70.4
Re: Subject: MM will OWN my Devex Submissions?
http://www.macromedia.com/devnet/subscriptions/ = Douglas White group Manager mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] http://www.samcfug.org = - Original Message - From: Bryan Stevenson [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: CF-Talk [EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Friday, March 07, 2003 7:15 PM Subject: Re: Subject: MM will OWN my Devex Submissions? | A subscription fee??!! Is that new? I've never paid and never been asked | to login | | -confused on Friday ;-) | | Bryan Stevenson B.Comm. | VP Director of E-Commerce Development | Electric Edge Systems Group Inc. | t. 250.920.8830 | e. [EMAIL PROTECTED] | | - | Macromedia Associate Partner | www.macromedia.com | - | Vancouver Island ColdFusion Users Group | Founder Director | www.cfug-vancouverisland.com | - Original Message - | From: samcfug [EMAIL PROTECTED] | To: CF-Talk [EMAIL PROTECTED] | Sent: Friday, March 07, 2003 4:54 PM | Subject: Re: Subject: MM will OWN my Devex Submissions? | | | You can request MM to remove your code, and if you still wish to share it | there | are a number of alternative CF related sites on which to upload it without | giving up your intellectual property. Or market it yourself. | | MM markets Dev Exchange for a subscription fee - which means it has to | have | license to distribute all the content for which they are charging a fee. | | = | Douglas White | group Manager | mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] | http://www.samcfug.org | = | - Original Message - | From: Matt Robertson [EMAIL PROTECTED] | To: CF-Talk [EMAIL PROTECTED] | Sent: Friday, March 07, 2003 6:17 PM | Subject: Re: Subject: MM will OWN my Devex Submissions? | | | | Good grief. Here is the relevant excerpt from the license agreement. | This | wasn't there in the past. | | | | My cms uses and includes an ActivEdit license. The license claims I | have | granted MM the right to use my product's contents for free, and they have | expressly made me liable for any licensing fees owed for said use (see the | bottom paragraph). | | | | I can live with the non-commercial part -- thats why I upload stuff in | the | first place. However acknowledgement should be granted with regard to the | work's origination. Mention of this is absent. | | | | The final paragraph implies that the preceding para's only take effect | if an | upload off of MM's servers is the situation, meaning if you force a | download | from your own site you retain your rights. However this is vague and | could be | construed against the developer. | | | | *WTF*?? | | | | -- | | | | (b) You will indemnify and hold Macromedia harmless from any claim | related to | the Submission including any claim by a third party that the Submission | infringes any copyright, patent, trademark, trade secret, rights of | privacy or | publicity or any other intellectual property right. Your obligation to | indemnify | Macromedia excludes any claims based on Macromedia-authored software. | | | | (c) Non-commercial Submission Only: With respect to the Non-commercial | Submission only, You hereby grant Macromedia a perpetual, irrevocable, | royalty-free and worldwide license to use, test, copy, modify, create | derivative | works of, publicly display, publicly perform, distribute, license, | sublicense, | offer to sell, sell, rent, lease or lend the Submission. | | | | (d) Commercial Submission Only: With respect to the Commercial | Submission | only, You hereby grant Macromedia a perpetual, irrevocable, royalty-free | and | worldwide license to use, test, copy, modify, create derivative works of, | publicly display, publicly perform or demonstrate the Submission, and/or | place a | link to a website in connection with such Submission. | | | | IF YOU DO NOT OWN OR HAVE RIGHTS TO EVERY ELEMENT OF YOUR SUBMISSIONS | (EXCLUDING ANY MACROMEDIA-AUTHORED SOFTWARE), DO NOT UPLOAD THE | SUBMISSIONS TO | MACROMEDIA. YOU WILL BE FINANCIALLY LIABLE TO ANY THIRD PARTY THAT OWNS | ANY | ELEMENT OF YOUR EXTENSIONS! | | | | | | | | | | ~| Archives: http://www.houseoffusion.com/cf_lists/index.cfm?forumid=4 Subscription: http://www.houseoffusion.com/cf_lists/index.cfm?method=subscribeforumid=4 FAQ: http://www.thenetprofits.co.uk/coldfusion/faq Structure your ColdFusion code with Fusebox. Get the official book at http://www.fusionauthority.com/bkinfo.cfm Unsubscribe: http://www.houseoffusion.com/cf_lists/unsubscribe.cfm?user=89.70.4
Re: Subject: MM will OWN my Devex Submissions?
Doug, I think you're confusing DevNET with DevEX. The others are talking about the tag gallery, etc. ~Todd At 07:19 PM 3/7/2003 -0600, you wrote: http://www.macromedia.com/devnet/subscriptions/ = Douglas White group Manager mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] http://www.samcfug.org = - Original Message - From: Bryan Stevenson [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: CF-Talk [EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Friday, March 07, 2003 7:15 PM Subject: Re: Subject: MM will OWN my Devex Submissions? | A subscription fee??!! Is that new? I've never paid and never been asked | to login | -- Todd Rafferty ([EMAIL PROTECTED]) - http://www.web-rat.com/ Team Macromedia Volunteer for ColdFusion http://www.macromedia.com/support/forums/team_macromedia/ http://www.devmx.com/ -- ~| Archives: http://www.houseoffusion.com/cf_lists/index.cfm?forumid=4 Subscription: http://www.houseoffusion.com/cf_lists/index.cfm?method=subscribeforumid=4 FAQ: http://www.thenetprofits.co.uk/coldfusion/faq This list and all House of Fusion resources hosted by CFHosting.com. The place for dependable ColdFusion Hosting. Unsubscribe: http://www.houseoffusion.com/cf_lists/unsubscribe.cfm?user=89.70.4
Re: Subject: MM will OWN my Devex Submissions?
Could be at that - not the first time I have been confused! g = Douglas White group Manager mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] http://www.samcfug.org = - Original Message - From: Todd Rafferty [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: CF-Talk [EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Friday, March 07, 2003 7:24 PM Subject: Re: Subject: MM will OWN my Devex Submissions? | Doug, | | I think you're confusing DevNET with DevEX. The others are talking about | the tag gallery, etc. | | ~Todd | | | At 07:19 PM 3/7/2003 -0600, you wrote: | http://www.macromedia.com/devnet/subscriptions/ | | = | Douglas White | group Manager | mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] | http://www.samcfug.org | = | - Original Message - | From: Bryan Stevenson [EMAIL PROTECTED] | To: CF-Talk [EMAIL PROTECTED] | Sent: Friday, March 07, 2003 7:15 PM | Subject: Re: Subject: MM will OWN my Devex Submissions? | | | | A subscription fee??!! Is that new? I've never paid and never been asked | | to login | | | | | -- | Todd Rafferty ([EMAIL PROTECTED]) - http://www.web-rat.com/ | Team Macromedia Volunteer for ColdFusion | http://www.macromedia.com/support/forums/team_macromedia/ | http://www.devmx.com/ | | -- | | ~| Archives: http://www.houseoffusion.com/cf_lists/index.cfm?forumid=4 Subscription: http://www.houseoffusion.com/cf_lists/index.cfm?method=subscribeforumid=4 FAQ: http://www.thenetprofits.co.uk/coldfusion/faq Signup for the Fusion Authority news alert and keep up with the latest news in ColdFusion and related topics. http://www.fusionauthority.com/signup.cfm Unsubscribe: http://www.houseoffusion.com/cf_lists/unsubscribe.cfm?user=89.70.4
RE: Subject: MM will OWN my Devex Submissions?
Actually, requesting a removal of an upload changes nothing since the new agreement states the license is perpetual and irrevocable. However most if all of my uploads pre-date this new agreement, so I'd want to hear if MM feels it applies retroactively. And that subscription fee you mention is for specific things that aren't covered by the uploads available in the Dev Exchange. They don't give out copies of the devexes from what I can see. I'd be pleased to have MM use my tools, and say so, although it'd be arrogant for me to think they needed anything I'm selling :). I'd be happy to grant use, but these terms don't seem reasonable when taken at face value. Matt Robertson [EMAIL PROTECTED] MSB Designs, Inc. http://mysecretbase.com ~| Archives: http://www.houseoffusion.com/cf_lists/index.cfm?forumid=4 Subscription: http://www.houseoffusion.com/cf_lists/index.cfm?method=subscribeforumid=4 FAQ: http://www.thenetprofits.co.uk/coldfusion/faq Your ad could be here. Monies from ads go to support these lists and provide more resources for the community. http://www.fusionauthority.com/ads.cfm Unsubscribe: http://www.houseoffusion.com/cf_lists/unsubscribe.cfm?user=89.70.4
Re: Subject: MM will OWN my Devex Submissions?
Dev Exchange Subscription fee? What are you talking about? Are you confusing this with DevNet Pro? The two are not related at all. mike chambers [EMAIL PROTECTED] - Original Message - From: samcfug [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: CF-Talk [EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Friday, March 07, 2003 7:54 PM Subject: Re: Subject: MM will OWN my Devex Submissions? You can request MM to remove your code, and if you still wish to share it there are a number of alternative CF related sites on which to upload it without giving up your intellectual property. Or market it yourself. MM markets Dev Exchange for a subscription fee - which means it has to have license to distribute all the content for which they are charging a fee. = Douglas White group Manager mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] http://www.samcfug.org = - Original Message - From: Matt Robertson [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: CF-Talk [EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Friday, March 07, 2003 6:17 PM Subject: Re: Subject: MM will OWN my Devex Submissions? | Good grief. Here is the relevant excerpt from the license agreement. This wasn't there in the past. | | My cms uses and includes an ActivEdit license. The license claims I have granted MM the right to use my product's contents for free, and they have expressly made me liable for any licensing fees owed for said use (see the bottom paragraph). | | I can live with the non-commercial part -- thats why I upload stuff in the first place. However acknowledgement should be granted with regard to the work's origination. Mention of this is absent. | | The final paragraph implies that the preceding para's only take effect if an upload off of MM's servers is the situation, meaning if you force a download from your own site you retain your rights. However this is vague and could be construed against the developer. | | *WTF*?? | | -- | | (b) You will indemnify and hold Macromedia harmless from any claim related to the Submission including any claim by a third party that the Submission infringes any copyright, patent, trademark, trade secret, rights of privacy or publicity or any other intellectual property right. Your obligation to indemnify Macromedia excludes any claims based on Macromedia-authored software. | | (c) Non-commercial Submission Only: With respect to the Non-commercial Submission only, You hereby grant Macromedia a perpetual, irrevocable, royalty-free and worldwide license to use, test, copy, modify, create derivative works of, publicly display, publicly perform, distribute, license, sublicense, offer to sell, sell, rent, lease or lend the Submission. | | (d) Commercial Submission Only: With respect to the Commercial Submission only, You hereby grant Macromedia a perpetual, irrevocable, royalty-free and worldwide license to use, test, copy, modify, create derivative works of, publicly display, publicly perform or demonstrate the Submission, and/or place a link to a website in connection with such Submission. | | IF YOU DO NOT OWN OR HAVE RIGHTS TO EVERY ELEMENT OF YOUR SUBMISSIONS (EXCLUDING ANY MACROMEDIA-AUTHORED SOFTWARE), DO NOT UPLOAD THE SUBMISSIONS TO MACROMEDIA. YOU WILL BE FINANCIALLY LIABLE TO ANY THIRD PARTY THAT OWNS ANY ELEMENT OF YOUR EXTENSIONS! | | | | ~| Archives: http://www.houseoffusion.com/cf_lists/index.cfm?forumid=4 Subscription: http://www.houseoffusion.com/cf_lists/index.cfm?method=subscribeforumid=4 FAQ: http://www.thenetprofits.co.uk/coldfusion/faq Structure your ColdFusion code with Fusebox. Get the official book at http://www.fusionauthority.com/bkinfo.cfm Unsubscribe: http://www.houseoffusion.com/cf_lists/unsubscribe.cfm?user=89.70.4
Re: Subject: MM will OWN my Devex Submissions?
That has nothing to do with the developer's exchange. mike chambers [EMAIL PROTECTED] - Original Message - From: samcfug [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: CF-Talk [EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Friday, March 07, 2003 8:19 PM Subject: Re: Subject: MM will OWN my Devex Submissions? http://www.macromedia.com/devnet/subscriptions/ ~| Archives: http://www.houseoffusion.com/cf_lists/index.cfm?forumid=4 Subscription: http://www.houseoffusion.com/cf_lists/index.cfm?method=subscribeforumid=4 FAQ: http://www.thenetprofits.co.uk/coldfusion/faq Your ad could be here. Monies from ads go to support these lists and provide more resources for the community. http://www.fusionauthority.com/ads.cfm Unsubscribe: http://www.houseoffusion.com/cf_lists/unsubscribe.cfm?user=89.70.4
