[cfaussie] Re: What's it all mean for CF developers? [Flex now Open Source'd]
Yeah, so that means I hate Adobe too :-) Andrew Scott Senior Coldfusion Developer Aegeon Pty. Ltd. www.aegeon.com.au Phone: +613 8676 4223 Mobile: 0404 998 273 -Original Message- From: cfaussie@googlegroups.com [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Barry Beattie Sent: Friday, 27 April 2007 4:00 PM To: cfaussie@googlegroups.com Subject: [cfaussie] Re: What's it all mean for CF developers? [Flex now Open Source'd] ... I hate any business/company that think they can exploit a consumer. really? this seems to be a popular issue... - http://www.amanwithapencil.com/adobe.html - http://aralbalkan.com/918 --~--~-~--~~~---~--~~ You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups cfaussie group. To post to this group, send email to cfaussie@googlegroups.com To unsubscribe from this group, send email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/cfaussie?hl=en -~--~~~~--~~--~--~---
[cfaussie] Re: What's it all mean for CF developers? [Flex now Open Source'd]
... I hate any business/company that think they can exploit a consumer. really? this seems to be a popular issue... - http://www.amanwithapencil.com/adobe.html - http://aralbalkan.com/918 --~--~-~--~~~---~--~~ You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups cfaussie group. To post to this group, send email to cfaussie@googlegroups.com To unsubscribe from this group, send email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/cfaussie?hl=en -~--~~~~--~~--~--~---
[cfaussie] Re: Scott and Andrew have driven me away
Tom, I wouldn't leave the list just because of all of the trolling. We have had the same trolling issues (with some of the same people) recently on the Flex coders list, as well as Adobe blogs. This list and other can be a really good resource, so instead of leaving I suggest you just set up mail filters to automatically delete the offending posters. I know it is not idea, but I think it is better than dropping out of what is otherwise a great resource and community. mike chambers [EMAIL PROTECTED] Tom MacKean wrote: OK. Had enough. I'm unsubscribing from cfaussie as of now. Let me make this perfectly clear. I am dropping off this list for one reason only, and that is that every time someone comes up with a sensible post about something Scott and Andrew turn it into a flame war. Scott - this is a list for people who have problems or questions about all things COLDFUSION - it is not a forum for Well you could do it with CF but look at this alternative from MS. Andrew - To quote from Bambi If ya can't say nuffin' nice, don't say nuffin' at all. Have a look through your posts and see how many have ADDED to people's knowledge of a subject and how many have just been having a dig at something someone (usually Scott) has said. They went and set up a whole new watercooler newsgroup for you guys so you could take your crap off cfaussie but your egos keep you posting in other people's topics. What a couple of pricks. Don't bother replying, I'm gone. Tom MacKean --~--~-~--~~~---~--~~ You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups cfaussie group. To post to this group, send email to cfaussie@googlegroups.com To unsubscribe from this group, send email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/cfaussie?hl=en -~--~~~~--~~--~--~---
[cfaussie] Re: Western Sydney User Group - anyone interested?
Yup, I'd be interested too. Cheers ian *** On 27/04/2007, at 3:52 PM, Rod Higgins wrote: Yup we are interested. Count us in (x3 developers), that makes 4. I was interested last time this was raised about 3 years ago and can provide the venue if required. The conference room can hold about 20 ppl comfortably, wireless internet available. If enough interest is around we might spring for drinks and nibbles. Cheers Rod -Original Message- From: cfaussie@googlegroups.com [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Mike Kear Sent: Friday, 27 April 2007 3:45 PM To: cfaussie Subject: [cfaussie] Western Sydney User Group - anyone interested? Some time ago, I raised the thought of setting up a Western Sydney CF User Group, because i felt sure there were quite a few coldfusion developers west of Auburn who felt travelling in to what they mistakently call the Central Business District was a real hassle. There were several people at the time who indicated they would be interested in being involved in such a group. Well it's suddenly taken on a life of its own and I think I can be assured of a regular venue in Penrith, a hop and a skip from the railway station in the main High Street. If there's anyone who would like to be involved in a UserGroup can you please let me know by posting to this list or sending me a private email.It looks like it just might happen now. -- Cheers Mike Kear Windsor, NSW, Australia Adobe Certified Advanced ColdFusion Developer AFP Webworks http://afpwebworks.com ColdFusion, PHP, ASP, ASP.NET hosting from AUD$15/month --~--~-~--~~~---~--~~ You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups cfaussie group. To post to this group, send email to cfaussie@googlegroups.com To unsubscribe from this group, send email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/cfaussie?hl=en -~--~~~~--~~--~--~---
[cfaussie] Re: Scott and Andrew have driven me away
fair enough. I've signed up to the watercooler list to do my bit. I've avoided it because it just has too much crap. and any asking for opinions/future directions stuff relating to CF I'll post there. but the devil makes work for idle hands... there's hardly any core CF questions because - lets face it - CF works darn well and a lot of the grief is already sorted. that may change when CF8 gets released but my guess is that Buntel and co will have a lot of stuff nicely sorted, unlike the CF5 to CF6 transition or 6.0 to 6.1... On 4/27/07, Simon Haddon [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Hi, You know, I actually agree with him. Thre as been alot of crap floating about in this news groups lately. All it does is undermine the group as a whole. It doesn't provide any benefit to the group and it makes ColdFusion developers look like a bunch of amaturs, who are too busy fighting with each other to provide any meaningful help. It would be nice to build the community rather than damage it. Does everyone agree? Why can't we use the water cooler for any of the other business and try and keep this group a bit nicer than using it as a means to take the micky out of each other or to make useless comparatives between MS and Adobe or even worse rediculing people. The people in the group are more professional than that, are they not? Simon On 27/04/07, Bjorn Schultheiss [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: The man quotes Bambi, Let him cry... On 27/04/2007, at 3:46 PM, Tom MacKean wrote: OK. Had enough. I'm unsubscribing from cfaussie as of now. Let me make this perfectly clear. I am dropping off this list for one reason only, and that is that every time someone comes up with a sensible post about something Scott and Andrew turn it into a flame war. Scott - this is a list for people who have problems or questions about all things COLDFUSION - it is not a forum for Well you could do it with CF but look at this alternative from MS. Andrew - To quote from Bambi If ya can't say nuffin' nice, don't say nuffin' at all. Have a look through your posts and see how many have ADDED to people's knowledge of a subject and how many have just been having a dig at something someone (usually Scott) has said. They went and set up a whole new watercooler newsgroup for you guys so you could take your crap off cfaussie but your egos keep you posting in other people's topics. What a couple of pricks. Don't bother replying, I'm gone. Tom MacKean -- Cheers Simon Haddon --~--~-~--~~~---~--~~ You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups cfaussie group. To post to this group, send email to cfaussie@googlegroups.com To unsubscribe from this group, send email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/cfaussie?hl=en -~--~~~~--~~--~--~---
[cfaussie] Re: Scott and Andrew have driven me away
Here here... It was interesting for a while but I've had enough of the continual discussions involving MS, they're past the point where they are even remotely useful. Brett B) Simon Haddon wrote: Hi, You know, I actually agree with him. Thre as been alot of crap floating about in this news groups lately. All it does is undermine the group as a whole. It doesn't provide any benefit to the group and it makes ColdFusion developers look like a bunch of amaturs, who are too busy fighting with each other to provide any meaningful help. It would be nice to build the community rather than damage it. Does everyone agree? Why can't we use the water cooler for any of the other business and try and keep this group a bit nicer than using it as a means to take the micky out of each other or to make useless comparatives between MS and Adobe or even worse rediculing people. The people in the group are more professional than that, are they not? Simon On 27/04/07, *Bjorn Schultheiss* [EMAIL PROTECTED] mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: The man quotes Bambi, Let him cry... On 27/04/2007, at 3:46 PM, Tom MacKean wrote: OK. Had enough. I'm unsubscribing from cfaussie as of now. Let me make this perfectly clear. I am dropping off this list for one reason only, and that is that every time someone comes up with a sensible post about something Scott and Andrew turn it into a flame war. Scott - this is a list for people who have problems or questions about all things COLDFUSION - it is not a forum for Well you could do it with CF but look at this alternative from MS. Andrew - To quote from Bambi If ya can't say nuffin' nice, don't say nuffin' at all. Have a look through your posts and see how many have ADDED to people's knowledge of a subject and how many have just been having a dig at something someone (usually Scott) has said. They went and set up a whole new watercooler newsgroup for you guys so you could take your crap off cfaussie but your egos keep you posting in other people's topics. What a couple of pricks. Don't bother replying, I'm gone. Tom MacKean -- Cheers Simon Haddon --~--~-~--~~~---~--~~ You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups cfaussie group. To post to this group, send email to cfaussie@googlegroups.com To unsubscribe from this group, send email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/cfaussie?hl=en -~--~~~~--~~--~--~---
[cfaussie] Re: Scott and Andrew have driven me away
Let me make this clear Guilty as charged, it is very easy to attack Scott. He is young in his position at M$ and it shows how easy he is to please his employer. Which makes him an easy target, which is his own doing. I know Scott has been around long enough to value him as a developer, but Scott you really need to ease up on pushing M$ the way you do in a CF list. It's just a natural reaction from me, I am out spoken because I don't suffer fools lightly. And I don't value someone coming into this list and preach how good M$ is. Whether they are or not, I always tinker with their products and look at ways that can benefit my development. Like everyone else on this list, and I know there are a lot of people who agree that you came into this list after joining M$ and you have done nothing but be pushy. That has shown on more than one occasion, but I will agree that there is many OT and attacks and yes I am guilty. But it comes in defense of people just being plain stupid, or pushy or just being naive. Doesn't make it right either, but hey if you don't like it get out of the kitchen. Senior Coldfusion Developer Aegeon Pty. Ltd. www.aegeon.com.au Phone: +613 8676 4223 Mobile: 0404 998 273 --~--~-~--~~~---~--~~ You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups cfaussie group. To post to this group, send email to cfaussie@googlegroups.com To unsubscribe from this group, send email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/cfaussie?hl=en -~--~~~~--~~--~--~---
[cfaussie] Re: Scott and Andrew have driven me away
but hey if you don't like it get out of the kitchen. wot, and get around the CF_watercooler instead? great suggestion, Andrew. Good on yer. anyhoo, it's friday a'noon. Outa here. this week's officially dead and buried (like some OT threads, eh?) --~--~-~--~~~---~--~~ You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups cfaussie group. To post to this group, send email to cfaussie@googlegroups.com To unsubscribe from this group, send email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/cfaussie?hl=en -~--~~~~--~~--~--~---
[cfaussie] Re: Scott and Andrew have driven me away
*rolls eyes* let it go Mike :) (4 months of this online scratchmatch/nit picking at everything I do say? I'm over it to be honest) heh. As for Tom, *shrug* yeah fair point, I guess it can be easy to get carried away sometimes, i'll take it on board and endeavor to reign it in :) On 4/27/07, Mike Chambers [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Tom, I wouldn't leave the list just because of all of the trolling. We have had the same trolling issues (with some of the same people) recently on the Flex coders list, as well as Adobe blogs. This list and other can be a really good resource, so instead of leaving I suggest you just set up mail filters to automatically delete the offending posters. I know it is not idea, but I think it is better than dropping out of what is otherwise a great resource and community. mike chambers [EMAIL PROTECTED] Tom MacKean wrote: OK. Had enough. I'm unsubscribing from cfaussie as of now. Let me make this perfectly clear. I am dropping off this list for one reason only, and that is that every time someone comes up with a sensible post about something Scott and Andrew turn it into a flame war. Scott - this is a list for people who have problems or questions about all things COLDFUSION - it is not a forum for Well you could do it with CF but look at this alternative from MS. Andrew - To quote from Bambi If ya can't say nuffin' nice, don't say nuffin' at all. Have a look through your posts and see how many have ADDED to people's knowledge of a subject and how many have just been having a dig at something someone (usually Scott) has said. They went and set up a whole new watercooler newsgroup for you guys so you could take your crap off cfaussie but your egos keep you posting in other people's topics. What a couple of pricks. Don't bother replying, I'm gone. Tom MacKean -- Regards, Scott Barnes http://www.mossyblog.com --~--~-~--~~~---~--~~ You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups cfaussie group. To post to this group, send email to cfaussie@googlegroups.com To unsubscribe from this group, send email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/cfaussie?hl=en -~--~~~~--~~--~--~---
[cfaussie] Re: SOT:Adobe Flex let me down
Maybe what you were planning on doing would have been best done in html anyway. what were you building was flex the right job? we use some flex/apollo at work, but more as a win application replacement then a web application replacement. the department that uses the app simply sits there all day swiping bar codes with a bar code reader, the app gets all the details for that order and displays em and updates the order status, the user never uses the keyboard once (except to log in) is quite cool, but the coolness wasn't the reason it was chosen. M@ --~--~-~--~~~---~--~~ You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups cfaussie group. To post to this group, send email to cfaussie@googlegroups.com To unsubscribe from this group, send email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/cfaussie?hl=en -~--~~~~--~~--~--~---
[cfaussie] Re: SOT:Adobe Flex let me down
With a post like this, no wonder people are jumped on:-) Serioulsy, I applaud your atempt but to go into a project without knowing your tools is dangerous. And like every programming language I have come across, learning them have been easy. But the surface is always just that a surface, and when delving deeper it can be harder and CF is no differeent. When you start introducing Coldspring and MG:U or reactor, to name a few it throws in some very big complexity and Flex is no different. On 4/27/07, cfgroupie [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: I walked into worked today with everyone around me saying did you hear? Flex has been open- sourced. My imediate thoughts was that's interesting. But honestly it won't make me continue with flex. --~--~-~--~~~---~--~~ You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups cfaussie group. To post to this group, send email to cfaussie@googlegroups.com To unsubscribe from this group, send email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/cfaussie?hl=en -~--~~~~--~~--~--~---
[cfaussie] Re: Flash File Uploads
No. But I have with a solution (for CFML) with code by ASFUSION.com - the sort of stuff that should be a lot easier in ColdFusion - but is not at this stage. I think ASFUSION's workaround (which works) is hardcoded for CFML. On 27/04/07, Steve Onnis [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Hey guys Has anyone managed to get Flash file uploads to work with an ASP file upload process? Steve Onnis Director / Head Developer [EMAIL PROTECTED] +61 3 9001 2258 0401 667 996 www.inevative.com.au http://www.novahost.com.au http://www.threesquares.com.au http://www.smsonline.com.au -- Peter Tilbrook ColdGen Internet Solutions President, ACT and Region ColdFusion Users Group PO Box 2247 Queanbeyan, NSW, 2620 AUSTRALIA http://www.coldgen.com/ http://www.actcfug.com/ Tel: +61-2-6284-2727 Mob: +61-0432-897-437 Email: [EMAIL PROTECTED] MSN Messenger Live: Desktop General --~--~-~--~~~---~--~~ You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups cfaussie group. To post to this group, send email to cfaussie@googlegroups.com To unsubscribe from this group, send email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/cfaussie?hl=en -~--~~~~--~~--~--~--- attachment: email.jpg attachment: phone.jpg attachment: inevativeLogo_small.jpg attachment: web.jpg attachment: mobile.jpg
[cfaussie] Re: Scott and Andrew have driven me away
show them paths in and out of Microsoft products, illustrate the pro's and con's Sweet give me a pro of using flex over WPF thanks Matt --~--~-~--~~~---~--~~ You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups cfaussie group. To post to this group, send email to cfaussie@googlegroups.com To unsubscribe from this group, send email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/cfaussie?hl=en -~--~~~~--~~--~--~---
[cfaussie] Re: SOT:Adobe Flex let me down
Andrew, I didn't go into this decision lightly. In fact it wasn't my ultimate decision at all. I work for a HUGE company in which those decisions are anaylsed to the endth degree. And yes in high-end sight we should have done it in HTML/ColdFusion. We actually discussed it with a Third party i.e. NOT me. So when is a good time to start working with the new tools? The only way to fully learn a language is to get dirty with it. My issue that I have with Adobe is that they DID not fully explain the complexity and learning curve that Flex has. The reason I raised this issue with all of you, is I truly believe that flex IS not ready for the main stream development environment. Its close but its just not ready. When I went to WebDU which I have nicked name FlexDU I spoke to Ted Patrick about the learning curve of Flex and what I could do to help reduce that learning curve and even he acknowledged that there is a steep learning curve with Flex and it is an issue that Adobe has recognized. He said wait for some more books to come out which should help. So perhaps now that Flex is open source we will see alot more tutorials and better resources. Jeremy On Apr 27, 7:32 pm, Andrew Scott [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: With a post like this, no wonder people are jumped on:-) Serioulsy, I applaud your atempt but to go into a project without knowing your tools is dangerous. And like every programming language I have come across, learning them have been easy. But the surface is always just that a surface, and when delving deeper it can be harder and CF is no differeent. When you start introducing Coldspring and MG:U or reactor, to name a few it throws in some very big complexity and Flex is no different. On 4/27/07, cfgroupie [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: I walked into worked today with everyone around me saying did you hear? Flex has been open- sourced. My imediate thoughts was that's interesting. But honestly it won't make me continue with flex. --~--~-~--~~~---~--~~ You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups cfaussie group. To post to this group, send email to cfaussie@googlegroups.com To unsubscribe from this group, send email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/cfaussie?hl=en -~--~~~~--~~--~--~---
[cfaussie] Re: SOT:Adobe Flex let me down
So when is a good time to start working with the new tools? The only way to fully learn a language is to get dirty In your own time or to send the developers to training, or to have a consultant/experienced dev with that technology to come in and train/help out with the first project or 2. or have spare time at work and an intranet that ain't to important or one of those learn a language while you sleep cd's and just hope it doesn't skip during ya sleep or ya might end up writing never ending loops. M@ On 4/27/07, cfgroupie [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Andrew, I didn't go into this decision lightly. In fact it wasn't my ultimate decision at all. I work for a HUGE company in which those decisions are anaylsed to the endth degree. And yes in high-end sight we should have done it in HTML/ColdFusion. We actually discussed it with a Third party i.e. NOT me. So when is a good time to start working with the new tools? The only way to fully learn a language is to get dirty with it. My issue that I have with Adobe is that they DID not fully explain the complexity and learning curve that Flex has. The reason I raised this issue with all of you, is I truly believe that flex IS not ready for the main stream development environment. Its close but its just not ready. When I went to WebDU which I have nicked name FlexDU I spoke to Ted Patrick about the learning curve of Flex and what I could do to help reduce that learning curve and even he acknowledged that there is a steep learning curve with Flex and it is an issue that Adobe has recognized. He said wait for some more books to come out which should help. So perhaps now that Flex is open source we will see alot more tutorials and better resources. Jeremy On Apr 27, 7:32 pm, Andrew Scott [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: With a post like this, no wonder people are jumped on:-) Serioulsy, I applaud your atempt but to go into a project without knowing your tools is dangerous. And like every programming language I have come across, learning them have been easy. But the surface is always just that a surface, and when delving deeper it can be harder and CF is no differeent. When you start introducing Coldspring and MG:U or reactor, to name a few it throws in some very big complexity and Flex is no different. On 4/27/07, cfgroupie [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: I walked into worked today with everyone around me saying did you hear? Flex has been open- sourced. My imediate thoughts was that's interesting. But honestly it won't make me continue with flex. --~--~-~--~~~---~--~~ You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups cfaussie group. To post to this group, send email to cfaussie@googlegroups.com To unsubscribe from this group, send email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/cfaussie?hl=en -~--~~~~--~~--~--~---
[cfaussie] Re: SOT:Adobe Flex let me down
It's true. And I don't really want to sound like a snob (but hey, I'm a mac user, I have ample amount of smugness) but don't you think that as developers, we should know this stuff (OOP)? I understand that it can be a bit hard to wrap your head around, but if you persevere, the bounties are lavish. It took me about two rather stressful, sleepless nights to wrap my head around Flash 8's component framework. That has paid off, though, because not only do I have a better understanding of how mixins work, I can build Flash Components (some will say they are bad, but that's a separate topic), and the resulting exposure to patterns has made it easy for me to absorb how a lot of Java and Flex stuff work. Admittedly, I have very little practical flex experience, but I can read all about without scratching my head. I am also picking up Spring, and the little understanding I had about Flash8's Comp. Framework has been a springboard to understanding all the AOP/MVC stuff Spring does. I win. I can feel your pain, though. I tried to learn Mach-ii a few years ago, when I first started to learn CF, and boy what a headache... Spring seems so much better written... but then again, it might also be because I've matured more as a developer. It's the same thing with those people who say 'java is hard, it takes forever to build anything'... that's true... if your java is limited to public static void main. I'm learning Spring, and really, it's been the most pleasurable learning experience I've had in the 2 or 3 years I've been a developer. (Sorry for ranting. I even forgot my own point... ) Bjorn Schultheiss wrote: It's easier to learn coming from a Java or Flash background. If your lucky enough for a company to pay you for 6 months while you learn any software, all the best. But to set commercial deadlines on such a proposal, madness.. On 27/04/2007, at 2:18 PM, Scott Barnes wrote: Bah :) no such thing is a perfectly executed project in software, we are all humans. Flex is RAD initially but it hurts after you want to get deeper into mucking about with the code base. I blame mix-ins to be honest (decorater pattern) as it's quite confusing for the untrained folks. Secondly, what company is going to say let Jeremy sit on Flex for 6 months to get up to speed on it? I see this quite a lot in the years of doing FLEX, I actually used to get a lot of my work bailing out the Jeremy's so it's not isolated :) Personally if both Adobe or Micosoft can't get the Jeremy''s of this world up to speed in under 6 months with GUI tier development, we failed. We need to work harder.. On 4/27/07, *Bjorn Schultheiss* [EMAIL PROTECTED] mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: So let me get this straight. You set an expectation of how long it would take to complete a project in software you are not familiar with and now your disappointed because your expectation was not met. Please, spare me... On 27/04/2007, at 2:05 PM, Lucas wrote: cool - send one our way, I am sure that you don't need em anymore... Oh, I have an old Javascript book here that we don't use anymore, wanna swap? On 4/27/07, *Scott Barnes* [EMAIL PROTECTED] mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: I got some Flex 3 books i can hand out btw? On 4/27/07, grant [EMAIL PROTECTED] mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: i agree, learning actionscript was like that. adobe/mm just don't do good developer cultivation. On 27/04/07, cfgroupie [EMAIL PROTECTED] mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: I walked into worked today with everyone around me saying did you hear? Flex has been open- sourced. My imediate thoughts was that's interesting. But honestly it won't make me continue with flex. I started a project about 2 months ago which was only going to take a few weeks. Without going into a massive post about the project we found a need to try out some Flex. I was Whoa stoked. We started off very small a simple form posting to a database. My background is mainly CF so I tackled Flex like a CF programmer would. It's sad to say that I totally under estimated the complexity of programming Flex. Now guys/gals, this page was the most BASIC page you could imagine. Where I felt Adobe let me down was the fact that all their PR explained how easy it was to pick up the Flex language. What they don't tell you is that you REALLY need to know OO and you REALLY need to have a good framework. The lack of examples in which I personally learn from is so limited that it
[cfaussie] Flex 2 - PayPal intergration
Anyone had any experience in intergrating paypal payments into a flex 2 app. Allan --~--~-~--~~~---~--~~ You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups cfaussie group. To post to this group, send email to cfaussie@googlegroups.com To unsubscribe from this group, send email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/cfaussie?hl=en -~--~~~~--~~--~--~---
[cfaussie] Re: Scott and Andrew have driven me away
Andrew I hate to be so blunt, and I'm genuinely not trying to be nasty here but I think you're missing the point. It's not just about your little wars with Scott Barnes - you (and several others) have a habit of regularly making posts that have absolutely no place on a professional mailing list. We're not interested in reading those kinds of diatribes, and we're certainly not interested in seeing people personally abused, ridiculed and called names. This is a resource for work - it used to be so good it attracted a lot of overseas posters. Check back through the archives and you'll notice that the majority of posts now come from the same half a dozen people. We all interact with the list less because we're sick of reading this garbage - I for one don't bother to check my cfaussie mail most of the time because I know it will just tick me off. If nothing else, do the posters of this rubbish not realise that the people who read this list are their potential employers and colleagues?? Off topic posts are one thing - all lists have them and they can be important. But the sort of thing that's been posted here over the last year or so (and almost constantly in the last few months) is puerile, needless and a total waste of everyone's time. I don't care whether you post on watercooler or whatever. I do think it would be nice if you (and I'm using you as an example, not the source of all evil) could treat this professional list and the people on it with the respect they deserve. Toby On 27/04/2007, at 17:07 , Andrew Scott wrote: Let me make this clear Guilty as charged, it is very easy to attack Scott. He is young in his position at M$ and it shows how easy he is to please his employer. Which makes him an easy target, which is his own doing. I know Scott has been around long enough to value him as a developer, but Scott you really need to ease up on pushing M$ the way you do in a CF list. It's just a natural reaction from me, I am out spoken because I don't suffer fools lightly. And I don't value someone coming into this list and preach how good M$ is. Whether they are or not, I always tinker with their products and look at ways that can benefit my development. Like everyone else on this list, and I know there are a lot of people who agree that you came into this list after joining M$ and you have done nothing but be pushy. That has shown on more than one occasion, but I will agree that there is many OT and attacks and yes I am guilty. But it comes in defense of people just being plain stupid, or pushy or just being naive. Doesn't make it right either, but hey if you don't like it get out of the kitchen. Senior Coldfusion Developer Aegeon Pty. Ltd. www.aegeon.com.au Phone: +613 8676 4223 Mobile: 0404 998 273 --- Life is poetry, write it in your own words --- Toby Tremayne Senior Technical Consultant Lyricist Software 0416 048 090 ICQ: 13107913 --~--~-~--~~~---~--~~ You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups cfaussie group. To post to this group, send email to cfaussie@googlegroups.com To unsubscribe from this group, send email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/cfaussie?hl=en -~--~~~~--~~--~--~---
[cfaussie] Re: Scott and Andrew have driven me away
Scottie is one of the smartest people I've ever met. Fantastic for him on getting a job at Microsoft. Best of both worlds really - cool OS's and development tools - insider knowledge - and still a ColdFusion and Flex developer. -- Peter Tilbrook ColdGen Internet Solutions President, ACT and Region ColdFusion Users Group PO Box 2247 Queanbeyan, NSW, 2620 AUSTRALIA http://www.coldgen.com/ http://www.actcfug.com/ Tel: +61-2-6284-2727 Mob: +61-0432-897-437 Email: [EMAIL PROTECTED] MSN Messenger Live: Desktop General --~--~-~--~~~---~--~~ You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups cfaussie group. To post to this group, send email to cfaussie@googlegroups.com To unsubscribe from this group, send email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/cfaussie?hl=en -~--~~~~--~~--~--~---
[cfaussie] Re: SOT:Adobe Flex let me down
Speaking of books, Can anyone recommend a set of essential Flex books for developers who are, much like most people on this list, quite advanced with Cold Fusion / Java development skills, and are starting to embark on Flex projects? Thanks! From: cfaussie@googlegroups.com [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Toby Tremayne Sent: Saturday, 28 April 2007 12:17 PM To: cfaussie@googlegroups.com Subject: [cfaussie] Re: SOT:Adobe Flex let me down I'd like to weigh in on this too - Jeremy i can understand your difficulties attempting to get your head around flex in so short a time, but there are a couple of points I'd like to make: 1) All companies are guilty of focusing on what the good Dr Hilliard calls the Elevator Pitch - showing the bells and whistles that make things incredibly easy, and not focusing on the long term requirements. But to be totally honest that's no different than allaire/macromedia et al have ever done with CF. Low entry barrier - some things are dead easy to do. That doesn't mean you'll be able to build complex apps in a day. Think about it - we all know it take 2 minutes to use cfquery and cfoutput and write a dynamic page to view data in a db. But none of us assume that means we're going to be able to write enterprise apps integrating with all manner of things and using complex OO frameworks etc in no time. 2) AS3 is pretty easy to learn in and of itself - but that doesn't mean you're going to know the whole API and all the ins and outs in a week. You can knock up simple little example apps in no time at all, but if you're looking at building anything serious, you need to take the time to understand the event model and asynchronous calls among other things. I don't see this at all as a failing of the language OR of adobe. Anyone who leaps into a new technology for a short fixed deadline based on just the elevator pitch is bound to feel pain. 3) Once you've learned the basic differences and gotten past the web based request/response paradigm, you'll find flex magnificent -and very RAD. There is yet to be a language developed that just lets you say I want this and this and this and this and it magically works. I hope you get the chance to give flex another try. When I first had at it, I was in exactly the same boat as you - and I had trouble shifting paradigms in my thinking. But with the advice of people on the lists and reading the books I'm absolutely loving it now - it's a seriously powerful tool and is going to be very important in the not too distant future I think. Don't be discouraged by the fact that it doesn't happen overnight. Toby On 27/04/2007, at 22:38 , cfgroupie [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Andrew, I didn't go into this decision lightly. In fact it wasn't my ultimate decision at all. I work for a HUGE company in which those decisions are anaylsed to the endth degree. And yes in high-end sight we should have done it in HTML/ColdFusion. We actually discussed it with a Third party i.e. NOT me. So when is a good time to start working with the new tools? The only way to fully learn a language is to get dirty with it. My issue that I have with Adobe is that they DID not fully explain the complexity and learning curve that Flex has. The reason I raised this issue with all of you, is I truly believe that flex IS not ready for the main stream development environment. Its close but its just not ready. When I went to WebDU which I have nicked name FlexDU I spoke to Ted Patrick about the learning curve of Flex and what I could do to help reduce that learning curve and even he acknowledged that there is a steep learning curve with Flex and it is an issue that Adobe has recognized. He said wait for some more books to come out which should help. So perhaps now that Flex is open source we will see alot more tutorials and better resources. Jeremy On Apr 27, 7:32 pm, Andrew Scott [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: With a post like this, no wonder people are jumped on:-) Serioulsy, I applaud your atempt but to go into a project without knowing your tools is dangerous. And like every programming language I have come across, learning them have been easy. But the surface is always just that a surface, and when delving deeper it can be harder and CF is no differeent. When you start introducing Coldspring and MG:U or reactor, to name a few it throws in some very big complexity and Flex is no different. On 4/27/07, cfgroupie [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: I walked into worked today with everyone around me saying did you hear? Flex has been open- sourced. My imediate thoughts was that's interesting. But honestly it won't make me continue with flex. --- Life is poetry, write it in your own words --- Toby Tremayne Senior Technical Consultant Lyricist Software 0416 048 090 ICQ: 13107913
[cfaussie] Re: SOT:Adobe Flex let me down
Hi Toby, Thanks for you input. I agree I won't give up Flex as I believe it has potential but I won't recommend it for major/minor applications. I will stick with .NET or ColdFusion. I believe the whole RIA is just still too young. I will say this one more time. 1. We had an external consultancy validate code and methodologies 2. The deadline wasn't missed. (yet). 3. My disappointment was two pronged. a.) Although they explain the concepts behind Flex it really only scratches the surface. b.) The lack of examples. I had a mate of mine warn me who knows flex back to front. Don't do a flex app or your project will fail. It hasn't failed yet but I understand what he means now. I truly hope that making Flex Open source will infact increase all aspects of its programming. But until then I will stick to what I originally stated. I have told everyone in my immediate team that we will not be doing another Flex application until things change. Jeremy. On Apr 28, 12:17 pm, Toby Tremayne [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: I'd like to weigh in on this too - Jeremy i can understand your difficulties attempting to get your head around flex in so short a time, but there are a couple of points I'd like to make: 1) All companies are guilty of focusing on what the good Dr Hilliard calls the Elevator Pitch - showing the bells and whistles that make things incredibly easy, and not focusing on the long term requirements. But to be totally honest that's no different than allaire/macromedia et al have ever done with CF. Low entry barrier - some things are dead easy to do. That doesn't mean you'll be able to build complex apps in a day. Think about it - we all know it take 2 minutes to use cfquery and cfoutput and write a dynamic page to view data in a db. But none of us assume that means we're going to be able to write enterprise apps integrating with all manner of things and using complex OO frameworks etc in no time. 2) AS3 is pretty easy to learn in and of itself - but that doesn't mean you're going to know the whole API and all the ins and outs in a week. You can knock up simple little example apps in no time at all, but if you're looking at building anything serious, you need to take the time to understand the event model and asynchronous calls among other things. I don't see this at all as a failing of the language OR of adobe. Anyone who leaps into a new technology for a short fixed deadline based on just the elevator pitch is bound to feel pain. 3) Once you've learned the basic differences and gotten past the web based request/response paradigm, you'll find flex magnificent -and very RAD. There is yet to be a language developed that just lets you say I want this and this and this and this and it magically works. I hope you get the chance to give flex another try. When I first had at it, I was in exactly the same boat as you - and I had trouble shifting paradigms in my thinking. But with the advice of people on the lists and reading the books I'm absolutely loving it now - it's a seriously powerful tool and is going to be very important in the not too distant future I think. Don't be discouraged by the fact that it doesn't happen overnight. Toby On 27/04/2007, at 22:38 , cfgroupie [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Andrew, I didn't go into this decision lightly. In fact it wasn't my ultimate decision at all. I work for a HUGE company in which those decisions are anaylsed to the endth degree. And yes in high-end sight we should have done it in HTML/ColdFusion. We actually discussed it with a Third party i.e. NOT me. So when is a good time to start working with the new tools? The only way to fully learn a language is to get dirty with it. My issue that I have with Adobe is that they DID not fully explain the complexity and learning curve that Flex has. The reason I raised this issue with all of you, is I truly believe that flex IS not ready for the main stream development environment. Its close but its just not ready. When I went to WebDU which I have nicked name FlexDU I spoke to Ted Patrick about the learning curve of Flex and what I could do to help reduce that learning curve and even he acknowledged that there is a steep learning curve with Flex and it is an issue that Adobe has recognized. He said wait for some more books to come out which should help. So perhaps now that Flex is open source we will see alot more tutorials and better resources. Jeremy On Apr 27, 7:32 pm, Andrew Scott [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: With a post like this, no wonder people are jumped on:-) Serioulsy, I applaud your atempt but to go into a project without knowing your tools is dangerous. And like every programming language I have come across, learning them have been easy. But the surface is always just that a surface, and when delving deeper it can be harder and CF is no differeent. When you start introducing
[cfaussie] Re: Scott and Andrew have driven me away
Nah Peter, they're right, I did goof off a little too much on the List and Toby hit the nail on the head. :) Anywho, keep moving forward ? On 4/28/07, Peter Tilbrook [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Scottie is one of the smartest people I've ever met. Fantastic for him on getting a job at Microsoft. Best of both worlds really - cool OS's and development tools - insider knowledge - and still a ColdFusion and Flex developer. -- Peter Tilbrook ColdGen Internet Solutions President, ACT and Region ColdFusion Users Group PO Box 2247 Queanbeyan, NSW, 2620 AUSTRALIA http://www.coldgen.com/ http://www.actcfug.com/ Tel: +61-2-6284-2727 Mob: +61-0432-897-437 Email: [EMAIL PROTECTED] MSN Messenger Live: Desktop General -- Regards, Scott Barnes http://www.mossyblog.com --~--~-~--~~~---~--~~ You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups cfaussie group. To post to this group, send email to cfaussie@googlegroups.com To unsubscribe from this group, send email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/cfaussie?hl=en -~--~~~~--~~--~--~---
[cfaussie] Re: SOT:Adobe Flex let me down
Ryan your best bet to get a good feel for Flex is Total Training for Adobe Flex 2: Rich Internet Applications. It's an example flex project from beginning to end. It doesn't get bogged down in all the class functionality and covers all the important topics, right up to flex data services. It's the resource for the exam IMO. The one I am waiting for at the moment is Programming Flex 2. The sample chapters are well written... http://www.adobe.com/devnet/flex/articles/progflex.html. Due in April 2007. Others.. Advanced ActionScript 3 with Design Patterns, ActionScript 3.0Cookbook Cheers Angus On 28/04/07, cfgroupie [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Hi Toby, Thanks for you input. I agree I won't give up Flex as I believe it has potential but I won't recommend it for major/minor applications. I will stick with .NET or ColdFusion. I believe the whole RIA is just still too young. I will say this one more time. 1. We had an external consultancy validate code and methodologies 2. The deadline wasn't missed. (yet). 3. My disappointment was two pronged. a.) Although they explain the concepts behind Flex it really only scratches the surface. b.) The lack of examples. I had a mate of mine warn me who knows flex back to front. Don't do a flex app or your project will fail. It hasn't failed yet but I understand what he means now. I truly hope that making Flex Open source will infact increase all aspects of its programming. But until then I will stick to what I originally stated. I have told everyone in my immediate team that we will not be doing another Flex application until things change. Jeremy. On Apr 28, 12:17 pm, Toby Tremayne [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: I'd like to weigh in on this too - Jeremy i can understand your difficulties attempting to get your head around flex in so short a time, but there are a couple of points I'd like to make: 1) All companies are guilty of focusing on what the good Dr Hilliard calls the Elevator Pitch - showing the bells and whistles that make things incredibly easy, and not focusing on the long term requirements. But to be totally honest that's no different than allaire/macromedia et al have ever done with CF. Low entry barrier - some things are dead easy to do. That doesn't mean you'll be able to build complex apps in a day. Think about it - we all know it take 2 minutes to use cfquery and cfoutput and write a dynamic page to view data in a db. But none of us assume that means we're going to be able to write enterprise apps integrating with all manner of things and using complex OO frameworks etc in no time. 2) AS3 is pretty easy to learn in and of itself - but that doesn't mean you're going to know the whole API and all the ins and outs in a week. You can knock up simple little example apps in no time at all, but if you're looking at building anything serious, you need to take the time to understand the event model and asynchronous calls among other things. I don't see this at all as a failing of the language OR of adobe. Anyone who leaps into a new technology for a short fixed deadline based on just the elevator pitch is bound to feel pain. 3) Once you've learned the basic differences and gotten past the web based request/response paradigm, you'll find flex magnificent -and very RAD. There is yet to be a language developed that just lets you say I want this and this and this and this and it magically works. I hope you get the chance to give flex another try. When I first had at it, I was in exactly the same boat as you - and I had trouble shifting paradigms in my thinking. But with the advice of people on the lists and reading the books I'm absolutely loving it now - it's a seriously powerful tool and is going to be very important in the not too distant future I think. Don't be discouraged by the fact that it doesn't happen overnight. Toby On 27/04/2007, at 22:38 , cfgroupie [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Andrew, I didn't go into this decision lightly. In fact it wasn't my ultimate decision at all. I work for a HUGE company in which those decisions are anaylsed to the endth degree. And yes in high-end sight we should have done it in HTML/ColdFusion. We actually discussed it with a Third party i.e. NOT me. So when is a good time to start working with the new tools? The only way to fully learn a language is to get dirty with it. My issue that I have with Adobe is that they DID not fully explain the complexity and learning curve that Flex has. The reason I raised this issue with all of you, is I truly believe that flex IS not ready for the main stream development environment. Its close but its just not ready. When I went to WebDU which I have nicked name FlexDU I spoke to Ted Patrick about the learning curve of Flex and what I could do to help reduce that learning curve and even he acknowledged that
[cfaussie] Re: Scott and Andrew have driven me away
Exactly Toby, Scott has no business coming here and preaching M$ in the manner he did. I am not alone on that, Scott just didn't see what he did. I have nothing against Scott personally, I respect him as a developer but not as an evangalist, he has gone about it wrong he just want listen. On 4/28/07, Toby Tremayne [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Andrew I hate to be so blunt, and I'm genuinely not trying to be nasty here but I think you're missing the point. It's not just about your little wars with Scott Barnes - you (and several others) have a habit of regularly making posts that have absolutely no place on a professional mailing list. We're not interested in reading those kinds of diatribes, and we're certainly not interested in seeing people personally abused, ridiculed and called names. This is a resource for work - it used to be so good it attracted a lot of overseas posters. Check back through the archives and you'll notice that the majority of posts now come from the same half a dozen people. We all interact with the list less because we're sick of reading this garbage - I for one don't bother to check my cfaussie mail most of the time because I know it will just tick me off. If nothing else, do the posters of this rubbish not realise that the people who read this list are their potential employers and colleagues?? Off topic posts are one thing - all lists have them and they can be important. But the sort of thing that's been posted here over the last year or so (and almost constantly in the last few months) is puerile, needless and a total waste of everyone's time. I don't care whether you post on watercooler or whatever. I do think it would be nice if you (and I'm using you as an example, not the source of all evil) could treat this professional list and the people on it with the respect they deserve. Toby On 27/04/2007, at 17:07 , Andrew Scott wrote: Let me make this clear Guilty as charged, it is very easy to attack Scott. He is young in his position at M$ and it shows how easy he is to please his employer. Which makes him an easy target, which is his own doing. I know Scott has been around long enough to value him as a developer, but Scott you really need to ease up on pushing M$ the way you do in a CF list. It's just a natural reaction from me, I am out spoken because I don't suffer fools lightly. And I don't value someone coming into this list and preach how good M$ is. Whether they are or not, I always tinker with their products and look at ways that can benefit my development. Like everyone else on this list, and I know there are a lot of people who agree that you came into this list after joining M$ and you have done nothing but be pushy. That has shown on more than one occasion, but I will agree that there is many OT and attacks and yes I am guilty. But it comes in defense of people just being plain stupid, or pushy or just being naive. Doesn't make it right either, but hey if you don't like it get out of the kitchen. Senior Coldfusion Developer Aegeon Pty. Ltd. www.aegeon.com.au Phone: +613 8676 4223 Mobile: 0404 998 273 --- Life is poetry, write it in your own words --- Toby Tremayne Senior Technical Consultant Lyricist Software 0416 048 090 ICQ: 13107913 -- Senior Coldfusion Developer Aegeon Pty. Ltd. www.aegeon.com.au Phone: +613 8676 4223 Mobile: 0404 998 273 --~--~-~--~~~---~--~~ You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups cfaussie group. To post to this group, send email to cfaussie@googlegroups.com To unsubscribe from this group, send email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/cfaussie?hl=en -~--~~~~--~~--~--~---
[cfaussie] Re: Scott and Andrew have driven me away
For pete's sake Andrew, havent you got the message yet?? GIVE IT A REST FOR GOD's SAKE Cheers Mike Kear Windsor, NSW, Australia Adobe Certified Advanced ColdFusion Developer AFP Webworks http://afpwebworks.com ColdFusion, PHP, ASP, ASP.NET hosting from AUD$15/month On 4/28/07, Andrew Scott [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Exactly Toby, Scott has no business coming here and preaching M$ in the manner he did. I am not alone on that, Scott just didn't see what he did. I have nothing against Scott personally, I respect him as a developer but not as an evangalist, he has gone about it wrong he just want listen. --~--~-~--~~~---~--~~ You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups cfaussie group. To post to this group, send email to cfaussie@googlegroups.com To unsubscribe from this group, send email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/cfaussie?hl=en -~--~~~~--~~--~--~---
[cfaussie] Re: SOT:Adobe Flex let me down
Hi Angus, Yeah I 'm reading one at the moment written by some of the programmers at Adobe. It's pretty basic good to get a starting point. But Ted Patrick suggested the ActionScript3.0 Cookbook and the one that is Due in April. I have my order in already. Jeremy On Apr 28, 1:51 pm, Angus Johnson [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Ryan your best bet to get a good feel for Flex is Total Training for Adobe Flex 2: Rich Internet Applications. It's an example flex project from beginning to end. It doesn't get bogged down in all the class functionality and covers all the important topics, right up to flex data services. It's the resource for the exam IMO. The one I am waiting for at the moment is Programming Flex 2. The sample chapters are well written...http://www.adobe.com/devnet/flex/articles/progflex.html. Due in April 2007. Others.. Advanced ActionScript 3 with Design Patterns, ActionScript 3.0Cookbook Cheers Angus On 28/04/07, cfgroupie [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Hi Toby, Thanks for you input. I agree I won't give up Flex as I believe it has potential but I won't recommend it for major/minor applications. I will stick with .NET or ColdFusion. I believe the whole RIA is just still too young. I will say this one more time. 1. We had an external consultancy validate code and methodologies 2. The deadline wasn't missed. (yet). 3. My disappointment was two pronged. a.) Although they explain the concepts behind Flex it really only scratches the surface. b.) The lack of examples. I had a mate of mine warn me who knows flex back to front. Don't do a flex app or your project will fail. It hasn't failed yet but I understand what he means now. I truly hope that making Flex Open source will infact increase all aspects of its programming. But until then I will stick to what I originally stated. I have told everyone in my immediate team that we will not be doing another Flex application until things change. Jeremy. On Apr 28, 12:17 pm, Toby Tremayne [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: I'd like to weigh in on this too - Jeremy i can understand your difficulties attempting to get your head around flex in so short a time, but there are a couple of points I'd like to make: 1) All companies are guilty of focusing on what the good Dr Hilliard calls the Elevator Pitch - showing the bells and whistles that make things incredibly easy, and not focusing on the long term requirements. But to be totally honest that's no different than allaire/macromedia et al have ever done with CF. Low entry barrier - some things are dead easy to do. That doesn't mean you'll be able to build complex apps in a day. Think about it - we all know it take 2 minutes to use cfquery and cfoutput and write a dynamic page to view data in a db. But none of us assume that means we're going to be able to write enterprise apps integrating with all manner of things and using complex OO frameworks etc in no time. 2) AS3 is pretty easy to learn in and of itself - but that doesn't mean you're going to know the whole API and all the ins and outs in a week. You can knock up simple little example apps in no time at all, but if you're looking at building anything serious, you need to take the time to understand the event model and asynchronous calls among other things. I don't see this at all as a failing of the language OR of adobe. Anyone who leaps into a new technology for a short fixed deadline based on just the elevator pitch is bound to feel pain. 3) Once you've learned the basic differences and gotten past the web based request/response paradigm, you'll find flex magnificent -and very RAD. There is yet to be a language developed that just lets you say I want this and this and this and this and it magically works. I hope you get the chance to give flex another try. When I first had at it, I was in exactly the same boat as you - and I had trouble shifting paradigms in my thinking. But with the advice of people on the lists and reading the books I'm absolutely loving it now - it's a seriously powerful tool and is going to be very important in the not too distant future I think. Don't be discouraged by the fact that it doesn't happen overnight. Toby On 27/04/2007, at 22:38 , cfgroupie [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Andrew, I didn't go into this decision lightly. In fact it wasn't my ultimate decision at all. I work for a HUGE company in which those decisions are anaylsed to the endth degree. And yes in high-end sight we should have done it in HTML/ColdFusion. We actually discussed it with a Third party i.e. NOT me. So when is a good time to start working with the new tools? The only way to fully learn a language is to get dirty with it. My issue that I have with Adobe is that they DID not fully explain the complexity and learning curve that
[cfaussie] Re: SOT:Adobe Flex let me down
Jeremy when I get back feel free to raid my bookshelf as i have a few FLEX 3 books you can borrow... (sorry assumed you had books man, you could of told me that earlier) On 4/28/07, cfgroupie [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Hi Angus, Yeah I 'm reading one at the moment written by some of the programmers at Adobe. It's pretty basic good to get a starting point. But Ted Patrick suggested the ActionScript3.0 Cookbook and the one that is Due in April. I have my order in already. Jeremy On Apr 28, 1:51 pm, Angus Johnson [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Ryan your best bet to get a good feel for Flex is Total Training for Adobe Flex 2: Rich Internet Applications. It's an example flex project from beginning to end. It doesn't get bogged down in all the class functionality and covers all the important topics, right up to flex data services. It's the resource for the exam IMO. The one I am waiting for at the moment is Programming Flex 2. The sample chapters are well written...http://www.adobe.com/devnet/flex/articles/progflex.html. Due in April 2007. Others.. Advanced ActionScript 3 with Design Patterns, ActionScript 3.0Cookbook Cheers Angus On 28/04/07, cfgroupie [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Hi Toby, Thanks for you input. I agree I won't give up Flex as I believe it has potential but I won't recommend it for major/minor applications. I will stick with .NET or ColdFusion. I believe the whole RIA is just still too young. I will say this one more time. 1. We had an external consultancy validate code and methodologies 2. The deadline wasn't missed. (yet). 3. My disappointment was two pronged. a.) Although they explain the concepts behind Flex it really only scratches the surface. b.) The lack of examples. I had a mate of mine warn me who knows flex back to front. Don't do a flex app or your project will fail. It hasn't failed yet but I understand what he means now. I truly hope that making Flex Open source will infact increase all aspects of its programming. But until then I will stick to what I originally stated. I have told everyone in my immediate team that we will not be doing another Flex application until things change. Jeremy. On Apr 28, 12:17 pm, Toby Tremayne [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: I'd like to weigh in on this too - Jeremy i can understand your difficulties attempting to get your head around flex in so short a time, but there are a couple of points I'd like to make: 1) All companies are guilty of focusing on what the good Dr Hilliard calls the Elevator Pitch - showing the bells and whistles that make things incredibly easy, and not focusing on the long term requirements. But to be totally honest that's no different than allaire/macromedia et al have ever done with CF. Low entry barrier - some things are dead easy to do. That doesn't mean you'll be able to build complex apps in a day. Think about it - we all know it take 2 minutes to use cfquery and cfoutput and write a dynamic page to view data in a db. But none of us assume that means we're going to be able to write enterprise apps integrating with all manner of things and using complex OO frameworks etc in no time. 2) AS3 is pretty easy to learn in and of itself - but that doesn't mean you're going to know the whole API and all the ins and outs in a week. You can knock up simple little example apps in no time at all, but if you're looking at building anything serious, you need to take the time to understand the event model and asynchronous calls among other things. I don't see this at all as a failing of the language OR of adobe. Anyone who leaps into a new technology for a short fixed deadline based on just the elevator pitch is bound to feel pain. 3) Once you've learned the basic differences and gotten past the web based request/response paradigm, you'll find flex magnificent -and very RAD. There is yet to be a language developed that just lets you say I want this and this and this and this and it magically works. I hope you get the chance to give flex another try. When I first had at it, I was in exactly the same boat as you - and I had trouble shifting paradigms in my thinking. But with the advice of people on the lists and reading the books I'm absolutely loving it now - it's a seriously powerful tool and is going to be very important in the not too distant future I think. Don't be discouraged by the fact that it doesn't happen overnight. Toby On 27/04/2007, at 22:38 , cfgroupie [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Andrew, I didn't go into this decision lightly. In fact it wasn't my ultimate decision at all. I work for a HUGE company in which those decisions are anaylsed to the endth degree. And yes in high-end sight we should have done it
[cfaussie] Re: SOT:Adobe Flex let me down
Our UG library has a couple (all of them I think): Adobe Flex 2: Training from the Source http://www.actcfug.com/index.cfm?fuseaction=LibraryViewLibraryID=70 Recommended as this deals with CF integration more. and: Developing Rich Clients with Macromedia Flex http://www.actcfug.com/index.cfm?fuseaction=LibraryViewLibraryID=6 also have: ActionScript 3.0 Cookbook http://www.actcfug.com/index.cfm?fuseaction=LibraryViewLibraryID=66 Getting quite a varied library now with 74 bookshttp://www.actcfug.com/index.cfm?fuseaction=LibraryList(Office 2007 Missing Manual is on the way). -- Peter Tilbrook ColdGen Internet Solutions President, ACT and Region ColdFusion Users Group PO Box 2247 Queanbeyan, NSW, 2620 AUSTRALIA http://www.coldgen.com/ http://www.actcfug.com/ Tel: +61-2-6284-2727 Mob: +61-0432-897-437 Email: [EMAIL PROTECTED] MSN Messenger Live: Desktop General --~--~-~--~~~---~--~~ You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups cfaussie group. To post to this group, send email to cfaussie@googlegroups.com To unsubscribe from this group, send email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/cfaussie?hl=en -~--~~~~--~~--~--~---
