[cfaussie] Re: CF vs ...
I've opted for a new one - "Life is like a chinese kitchen, you know what mix you can get, it just needs to be ordered" :)On 8/17/06, Barry Beattie <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: and I've heard of a large organisation eschewing their long history(and RAD benefits) of ColdFusion in favour of Java + JSP(replacing a 800kg sports car with a 102 tonne steam-engine)Scott, it's like your favourite movie one-liner"life is like a box o' chocolates..."On 8/17/06, Scott Barnes <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:> I heard Ernst & Young are upgrading Notes... upgrading!!!... well i never... On 8/16/06, darryl lyons < [EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:> >> > Dumping Notes is a good thing..> >> > On 11/08/06, < [EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:> > >> > > Hey just to add more fuel to the fire. We just had a company meeting> > > last night and they had a guest speaker there from Microsoft, talking > > > about "SOLUTIONS" ironically. They are coming out with Studio 2005 with> > > some added features which apparently haven't been released yet which> > > from what I understand are using MS Project, MS Word and some new > > > server which will track all your project changes and where it is at> > > that point in the SDLC.> > >> > > And because my company are a Gold Partner with MS I saw my little CF > > > heart broken when I heard my manager say to me I like that, lets look> > > at it! *sigh*> > >> > > Oh and we are ditching Lotus Notes apparentlywhoo hoo!!> > > > > > Jeremy> > >> > >> > > >> > >> >> >> > > >> >>http://www.mossyblog.com --~--~-~--~~~---~--~~ You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "cfaussie" group. To post to this group, send email to cfaussie@googlegroups.com To unsubscribe from this group, send email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/cfaussie -~--~~~~--~~--~--~---
[cfaussie] Re: CF vs ...
and I've heard of a large organisation eschewing their long history (and RAD benefits) of ColdFusion in favour of Java + JSP (replacing a 800kg sports car with a 102 tonne steam-engine) Scott, it's like your favourite movie one-liner"life is like a box o' chocolates..." On 8/17/06, Scott Barnes <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > I heard Ernst & Young are upgrading Notes... upgrading!!!... well i never... > > > > On 8/16/06, darryl lyons < [EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > > > > Dumping Notes is a good thing.. > > > > On 11/08/06, < [EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > > > > > > Hey just to add more fuel to the fire. We just had a company meeting > > > last night and they had a guest speaker there from Microsoft, talking > > > about "SOLUTIONS" ironically. They are coming out with Studio 2005 with > > > some added features which apparently haven't been released yet which > > > from what I understand are using MS Project, MS Word and some new > > > server which will track all your project changes and where it is at > > > that point in the SDLC. > > > > > > And because my company are a Gold Partner with MS I saw my little CF > > > heart broken when I heard my manager say to me I like that, lets look > > > at it! *sigh* > > > > > > Oh and we are ditching Lotus Notes apparentlywhoo hoo!! > > > > > > Jeremy > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > --~--~-~--~~~---~--~~ You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "cfaussie" group. To post to this group, send email to cfaussie@googlegroups.com To unsubscribe from this group, send email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/cfaussie -~--~~~~--~~--~--~---
[cfaussie] Re: CF vs ...
I heard Ernst & Young are upgrading Notes... upgrading!!!... well i never...On 8/16/06, darryl lyons < [EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:Dumping Notes is a good thing..On 11/08/06, < [EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:>> Hey just to add more fuel to the fire. We just had a company meeting> last night and they had a guest speaker there from Microsoft, talking > about "SOLUTIONS" ironically. They are coming out with Studio 2005 with> some added features which apparently haven't been released yet which> from what I understand are using MS Project, MS Word and some new > server which will track all your project changes and where it is at> that point in the SDLC.>> And because my company are a Gold Partner with MS I saw my little CF> heart broken when I heard my manager say to me I like that, lets look > at it! *sigh*>> Oh and we are ditching Lotus Notes apparentlywhoo hoo!!>> Jeremy>>> >> --~--~-~--~~~---~--~~ You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "cfaussie" group. To post to this group, send email to cfaussie@googlegroups.com To unsubscribe from this group, send email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/cfaussie -~--~~~~--~~--~--~---
[cfaussie] Re: CF vs ...
Dumping Notes is a good thing.. On 11/08/06, <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > > Hey just to add more fuel to the fire. We just had a company meeting > last night and they had a guest speaker there from Microsoft, talking > about "SOLUTIONS" ironically. They are coming out with Studio 2005 with > some added features which apparently haven't been released yet which > from what I understand are using MS Project, MS Word and some new > server which will track all your project changes and where it is at > that point in the SDLC. > > And because my company are a Gold Partner with MS I saw my little CF > heart broken when I heard my manager say to me I like that, lets look > at it! *sigh* > > Oh and we are ditching Lotus Notes apparentlywhoo hoo!! > > Jeremy > > > > > --~--~-~--~~~---~--~~ You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "cfaussie" group. To post to this group, send email to cfaussie@googlegroups.com To unsubscribe from this group, send email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/cfaussie -~--~~~~--~~--~--~---
[cfaussie] Re: CF vs ...
I think it may be Microsoft Project EPM. I'm trying - ever so hard - to get this rolled into QR, as I do have a lot of love and respect for ye olde MS Project, but would love even more so to have web based visibility on some of the projects in my teams portfolio (having $20million+ worth of projects to look after kind of makes me a bit nervous that our reports are done via meetings / paper). I'm seeing both worlds like you Jeremy, QR is a .NET shop and we've made no secret about it, while i don't sit in the IT space any more and more towards the Business space, I can see the immediate attraction to .NET solutions. Low cost, quick to install and companies like Microsoft reps / partners seem to be everywhere. It does spell out a compelling story - yet no mention of the word adobe outside my own lips. That tells me one thing: Adobe need to do more marketing - "Flip the funnel" isn't enough. On 8/11/06, <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: Hey just to add more fuel to the fire. We just had a company meetinglast night and they had a guest speaker there from Microsoft, talking about "SOLUTIONS" ironically. They are coming out with Studio 2005 withsome added features which apparently haven't been released yet whichfrom what I understand are using MS Project, MS Word and some new server which will track all your project changes and where it is atthat point in the SDLC.And because my company are a Gold Partner with MS I saw my little CFheart broken when I heard my manager say to me I like that, lets look at it! *sigh*Oh and we are ditching Lotus Notes apparentlywhoo hoo!!Jeremy-- Regards,Scott Barneshttp://www.mossyblog.com --~--~-~--~~~---~--~~ You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "cfaussie" group. To post to this group, send email to cfaussie@googlegroups.com To unsubscribe from this group, send email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/cfaussie -~--~~~~--~~--~--~---
[cfaussie] Re: CF vs ...
I'd like to propose that it's not just about "solutions" but "vision" which harks back to a webdu presso by Grant Straker in selling (then Macromedia) product. 2 years ago it was CF integrating with flash (flex 1.5)... now look at the goodies with Flex 2.0 and also now we're beginning to see the start of integrating CF with "active" PDF (Livecycle). It makes an interesting counter to the Microsoft "from ASP.NET to SharePoint to Exchange to MSOffice" mind you, I have *never* worked at a place with end-to-end Microsoft solutions (don't really want to) - there's always a critical legacy app, Solaris box or Oracle database to complicate matters... at the moment, it's this "vision" argument that I'm using to counter the Ruby-on-Rails attention, which it seems is a real threat to the CF "space" of RAD. Can RonR have as seemless remoting support (eg: CFC's to AS classes) or integrate with LiveCycle PDF's? ... you get the idea ... bugger! I dropped a stitch barry.b On 8/11/06, <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > > Hey just to add more fuel to the fire. We just had a company meeting > last night and they had a guest speaker there from Microsoft, talking > about "SOLUTIONS" ironically. They are coming out with Studio 2005 with > some added features which apparently haven't been released yet which > from what I understand are using MS Project, MS Word and some new > server which will track all your project changes and where it is at > that point in the SDLC. > > And because my company are a Gold Partner with MS I saw my little CF > heart broken when I heard my manager say to me I like that, lets look > at it! *sigh* > > Oh and we are ditching Lotus Notes apparentlywhoo hoo!! > > Jeremy > > > > > --~--~-~--~~~---~--~~ You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "cfaussie" group. To post to this group, send email to cfaussie@googlegroups.com To unsubscribe from this group, send email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/cfaussie -~--~~~~--~~--~--~---
[cfaussie] Re: CF vs ...
Hey just to add more fuel to the fire. We just had a company meeting last night and they had a guest speaker there from Microsoft, talking about "SOLUTIONS" ironically. They are coming out with Studio 2005 with some added features which apparently haven't been released yet which from what I understand are using MS Project, MS Word and some new server which will track all your project changes and where it is at that point in the SDLC. And because my company are a Gold Partner with MS I saw my little CF heart broken when I heard my manager say to me I like that, lets look at it! *sigh* Oh and we are ditching Lotus Notes apparentlywhoo hoo!! Jeremy --~--~-~--~~~---~--~~ You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "cfaussie" group. To post to this group, send email to cfaussie@googlegroups.com To unsubscribe from this group, send email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/cfaussie -~--~~~~--~~--~--~---
[cfaussie] Re: CF vs ...
we could of been sewing and ranting! man i am behind the times. Now if you'll all excuse me, these socks won't mend themselves ;DOn 8/9/06, Mark Stanton <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: unsubscribe cfsewingcircleOn 8/9/06, Scott Barnes <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:>> Probably because someone like Darren sold them on it?> > I get pitches thrown at me weekly from some xyz supplier touting xyz> technology and i always seem to stop them in their tracks by asking the> following:>> What are you trying to do? change my business process or implement software? >> If you combine for example Coldfusion + FLEX 2 + Flex Builder, all know how> easy it is to have a top-down RIA solution in a matter of minutes. The> reason you all know, is because someone beside you told you so or you saw > the presentations on it online/WebDU etc. You were informed because it was> preaching to the choir.>> Take that exact same concept and now apply it to a seasoned .NET house and> convince them of the power. If you succeed, you're quite the salesperson. >> Microsoft.NET has large marketing budgets, which strategically focus on the> middle management tier, to sell them on _level0 concepts about the .NET> eco-system. They see it and immediately relate to it, as typically most .NET > applications (client-side) look and feel like the Outlook client they are> used to or a typical windows application.>> ASP, CFM + ASP appear as hygiene - some wouldn't even know the separation of > what the difference between HTML and Server-side is? they see a web page and> that's enough.>> So, sell to the developers then? Yet (look above) the only reason you have> another developers attention is simply because they have a yearning to move > onto the next step in their career or they heard from a friend that> "FLASH/FLEX/CF/APOLLO" is awesome. Word of mouth sells software, not RAD> thorium's. The RAD approach simply is the final nail in convincing someone > who's on the fence, but I dare say that it would be a small % of cases where> a company switches direction based on a comparison matrix done between CF +> other?>> At QR, we have a centralised approach to a decentralised problem. > Discussions about which technology to adopt is futile effort, simply put> "who gives a rats whats ticking underneath.." A lot of the time we are> blindsided by adopting a technology we probably shouldn't have, and as a > result we hit the panic buttons, outsource and look for someone to draw from> this legacy and create a different perspective for end-users to use. I've> lost count of the number of seeds I've planted around the place (from the > Chief level down to the coalface) on the power of Adobe. It goes un-noticed,> probably because I suck at selling but more so because I'm not solving an> immediate need. All i am telling them is there is a different flavour to the > problem they are having, it may be faster to fix but in the end the problem> doesn't go away.>> Robin touted sell CF Solutions to the business, which is true (ahh I'm> agreeing with Robin hehe). If you were to walk up to me tomorrow and say > "Scott, I have a CRM solution that will allow you to get an insight into> both your customers and their habits amongst your various sales channels"> the first question i'd ask (and I would) "How much an when". Once you've > answered those two questions and you succeed in getting my interest, i'll> then defer you to the IT Dept for further pre-sale checks. In the event they> flag you down with "can't be done, we luv ASP and this is built in CF so it > goes against our grain" - my response:>> "..I don't care, that's your problem, I'm running a business here, so here's> what we are going to do. You're now going to go find me an alternative to > the problem this company can solve in ASP. You have until Friday next week> to come back with at least 1. If you can't, then get on board the CF train> and lets keep moving..">> >>>>> On 8/9/06, Barry Beattie <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:> >>> y'know I worked there for nearly two years and still don't know why > Alphabus chose CF.>> by rights they wouldn't have known what it meant, esp since it was CF5> at the time. their expertise was in a propriatary 4GL language for> desktop-based client/server apps. >> I wonder what part of CF sold them? why not PHP? ASP (classic)? was it> the RAD? was it the Macromedia parentage and aligning with their> "Vision"?>> Darren, Gareth, Ben, Barnsey... any of you guys know? >>>> On 8/9/06, Charlie Arehart <[EMAIL PROTEC
[cfaussie] Re: CF vs ...
unsubscribe cfsewingcircle On 8/9/06, Scott Barnes <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > > Probably because someone like Darren sold them on it? > > I get pitches thrown at me weekly from some xyz supplier touting xyz > technology and i always seem to stop them in their tracks by asking the > following: > > What are you trying to do? change my business process or implement software? > > If you combine for example Coldfusion + FLEX 2 + Flex Builder, all know how > easy it is to have a top-down RIA solution in a matter of minutes. The > reason you all know, is because someone beside you told you so or you saw > the presentations on it online/WebDU etc. You were informed because it was > preaching to the choir. > > Take that exact same concept and now apply it to a seasoned .NET house and > convince them of the power. If you succeed, you're quite the salesperson. > > Microsoft.NET has large marketing budgets, which strategically focus on the > middle management tier, to sell them on _level0 concepts about the .NET > eco-system. They see it and immediately relate to it, as typically most .NET > applications (client-side) look and feel like the Outlook client they are > used to or a typical windows application. > > ASP, CFM + ASP appear as hygiene - some wouldn't even know the separation of > what the difference between HTML and Server-side is? they see a web page and > that's enough. > > So, sell to the developers then? Yet (look above) the only reason you have > another developers attention is simply because they have a yearning to move > onto the next step in their career or they heard from a friend that > "FLASH/FLEX/CF/APOLLO" is awesome. Word of mouth sells software, not RAD > thorium's. The RAD approach simply is the final nail in convincing someone > who's on the fence, but I dare say that it would be a small % of cases where > a company switches direction based on a comparison matrix done between CF + > other? > > At QR, we have a centralised approach to a decentralised problem. > Discussions about which technology to adopt is futile effort, simply put > "who gives a rats whats ticking underneath.." A lot of the time we are > blindsided by adopting a technology we probably shouldn't have, and as a > result we hit the panic buttons, outsource and look for someone to draw from > this legacy and create a different perspective for end-users to use. I've > lost count of the number of seeds I've planted around the place (from the > Chief level down to the coalface) on the power of Adobe. It goes un-noticed, > probably because I suck at selling but more so because I'm not solving an > immediate need. All i am telling them is there is a different flavour to the > problem they are having, it may be faster to fix but in the end the problem > doesn't go away. > > Robin touted sell CF Solutions to the business, which is true (ahh I'm > agreeing with Robin hehe). If you were to walk up to me tomorrow and say > "Scott, I have a CRM solution that will allow you to get an insight into > both your customers and their habits amongst your various sales channels" > the first question i'd ask (and I would) "How much an when". Once you've > answered those two questions and you succeed in getting my interest, i'll > then defer you to the IT Dept for further pre-sale checks. In the event they > flag you down with "can't be done, we luv ASP and this is built in CF so it > goes against our grain" - my response: > > "..I don't care, that's your problem, I'm running a business here, so here's > what we are going to do. You're now going to go find me an alternative to > the problem this company can solve in ASP. You have until Friday next week > to come back with at least 1. If you can't, then get on board the CF train > and lets keep moving.." > > > > > > > On 8/9/06, Barry Beattie <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > > > > y'know I worked there for nearly two years and still don't know why > Alphabus chose CF. > > by rights they wouldn't have known what it meant, esp since it was CF5 > at the time. their expertise was in a propriatary 4GL language for > desktop-based client/server apps. > > I wonder what part of CF sold them? why not PHP? ASP (classic)? was it > the RAD? was it the Macromedia parentage and aligning with their > "Vision"? > > Darren, Gareth, Ben, Barnsey... any of you guys know? > > > > On 8/9/06, Charlie Arehart <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > > > > > > That's a GREAT takeaway--and indeed mantra--for us, Robin: > > > > &g
[cfaussie] Re: CF vs ...
Probably because someone like Darren sold them on it? I get pitches thrown at me weekly from some xyz supplier touting xyz technology and i always seem to stop them in their tracks by asking the following: What are you trying to do? change my business process or implement software? If you combine for example Coldfusion + FLEX 2 + Flex Builder, all know how easy it is to have a top-down RIA solution in a matter of minutes. The reason you all know, is because someone beside you told you so or you saw the presentations on it online/WebDU etc. You were informed because it was preaching to the choir. Take that exact same concept and now apply it to a seasoned .NET house and convince them of the power. If you succeed, you're quite the salesperson. Microsoft.NET has large marketing budgets, which strategically focus on the middle management tier, to sell them on _level0 concepts about the .NET eco-system. They see it and immediately relate to it, as typically most .NET applications (client-side) look and feel like the Outlook client they are used to or a typical windows application. ASP, CFM + ASP appear as hygiene - some wouldn't even know the separation of what the difference between HTML and Server-side is? they see a web page and that's enough. So, sell to the developers then? Yet (look above) the only reason you have another developers attention is simply because they have a yearning to move onto the next step in their career or they heard from a friend that "FLASH/FLEX/CF/APOLLO" is awesome. Word of mouth sells software, not RAD thorium's. The RAD approach simply is the final nail in convincing someone who's on the fence, but I dare say that it would be a small % of cases where a company switches direction based on a comparison matrix done between CF + other? At QR, we have a centralised approach to a decentralised problem. Discussions about which technology to adopt is futile effort, simply put "who gives a rats whats ticking underneath.." A lot of the time we are blindsided by adopting a technology we probably shouldn't have, and as a result we hit the panic buttons, outsource and look for someone to draw from this legacy and create a different perspective for end-users to use. I've lost count of the number of seeds I've planted around the place (from the Chief level down to the coalface) on the power of Adobe. It goes un-noticed, probably because I suck at selling but more so because I'm not solving an immediate need. All i am telling them is there is a different flavour to the problem they are having, it may be faster to fix but in the end the problem doesn't go away. Robin touted sell CF Solutions to the business, which is true (ahh I'm agreeing with Robin hehe). If you were to walk up to me tomorrow and say "Scott, I have a CRM solution that will allow you to get an insight into both your customers and their habits amongst your various sales channels" the first question i'd ask (and I would) "How much an when". Once you've answered those two questions and you succeed in getting my interest, i'll then defer you to the IT Dept for further pre-sale checks. In the event they flag you down with "can't be done, we luv ASP and this is built in CF so it goes against our grain" - my response: "..I don't care, that's your problem, I'm running a business here, so here's what we are going to do. You're now going to go find me an alternative to the problem this company can solve in ASP. You have until Friday next week to come back with at least 1. If you can't, then get on board the CF train and lets keep moving.." On 8/9/06, Barry Beattie <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: y'know I worked there for nearly two years and still don't know whyAlphabus chose CF.by rights they wouldn't have known what it meant, esp since it was CF5 at the time. their expertise was in a propriatary 4GL language fordesktop-based client/server apps.I wonder what part of CF sold them? why not PHP? ASP (classic)? was itthe RAD? was it the Macromedia parentage and aligning with their "Vision"?Darren, Gareth, Ben, Barnsey... any of you guys know?On 8/9/06, Charlie Arehart <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:> >> That's a GREAT takeaway--and indeed mantra--for us, Robin:>>>> Don't try to sell the CF Platform to business. Sell CF Solutions to> business.>>> > /charlie> http://www.carehart.org/blog/>>> > From: cfaussie@googlegroups.com [mailto:cfaussie@googlegroups.com] On> Behalf Of Robin Hilliard> Sent: Tuesday, August 08, 2006 9:20 AM>> To: cfaussie@googlegroups.com> Subject: [cfaussie] Re: CF vs ...>>>> On 08/08/2006, at 10:30 PM, Scott Barnes wrote:>> Robin,>> You assume there is ration
[cfaussie] Re: CF vs ...
y'know I worked there for nearly two years and still don't know why Alphabus chose CF. by rights they wouldn't have known what it meant, esp since it was CF5 at the time. their expertise was in a propriatary 4GL language for desktop-based client/server apps. I wonder what part of CF sold them? why not PHP? ASP (classic)? was it the RAD? was it the Macromedia parentage and aligning with their "Vision"? Darren, Gareth, Ben, Barnsey... any of you guys know? On 8/9/06, Charlie Arehart <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > > > That's a GREAT takeaway--and indeed mantra--for us, Robin: > > > > Don't try to sell the CF Platform to business. Sell CF Solutions to > business. > > > > /charlie > http://www.carehart.org/blog/ > > > > From: cfaussie@googlegroups.com [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On > Behalf Of Robin Hilliard > Sent: Tuesday, August 08, 2006 9:20 AM > > To: cfaussie@googlegroups.com > Subject: [cfaussie] Re: CF vs ... > > > > On 08/08/2006, at 10:30 PM, Scott Barnes wrote: > > Robin, > > You assume there is rational conversations taking place at the management > level along with Cost benefit realisation? Who here actively has had > conversations about the two with management? > > Well, that was actually my job for a while, and it seemed to work (Telstra > for example). Most of the stuff at that level is still FUD, and plenty of > Microsoft partners (e.g. Accenture in Canberra) have a full time occupation > sowing it - they want to sell their services just as much as we do, and > they're very good at it. But once you cut through the FUD people are pretty > receptive to the CF RAD message. > > > Actually I'm really just banging the same old drum about selling business > solutions instead of technologies. If what you sell is a person who can > code in CF, you're not really talking to management at a level that they can > connect with - much as I wouldn't connect with a plumber who sold themselves > as a specialist fusion welder (Hmm, the other plumber told me that ".TIG" is > a better welding method, and he was going to do my office for me as well in > a bundle) rather than someone who could stop my pipes leaking in 20 minutes > for a hundred bucks. > > > Don't try to sell the CF Platform to business. Sell CF Solutions to > business. > > > Robin > > > > > __ > > > Robin Hilliard > Director - RocketBoots Pty Ltd > Consulting . Software Licensing . Recruitment . Training > http://www.rocketboots.com.au > > > For schedule/availability call Pamela Higgins: > w+61 7 5451 0362 > > m+61 419 677 151 > f+61 3 9923 6261 > e[EMAIL PROTECTED] > > > or Direct: > m+61 418 414 341 > e[EMAIL PROTECTED] > > > > *** Worldwide Adobe Licensing - Volume discounts now start at one point *** > > > > > > --~--~-~--~~~---~--~~ You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "cfaussie" group. To post to this group, send email to cfaussie@googlegroups.com To unsubscribe from this group, send email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/cfaussie -~--~~~~--~~--~--~---
[cfaussie] Re: CF vs ...
That's a GREAT takeaway--and indeed mantra--for us, Robin: Don't try to sell the CF Platform to business. Sell CF Solutions to business. /charlie http://www.carehart.org/blog/ From: cfaussie@googlegroups.com [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Robin HilliardSent: Tuesday, August 08, 2006 9:20 AMTo: cfaussie@googlegroups.comSubject: [cfaussie] Re: CF vs ... On 08/08/2006, at 10:30 PM, Scott Barnes wrote: Robin, You assume there is rational conversations taking place at the management level along with Cost benefit realisation? Who here actively has had conversations about the two with management? Well, that was actually my job for a while, and it seemed to work (Telstra for example). Most of the stuff at that level is still FUD, and plenty of Microsoft partners (e.g. Accenture in Canberra) have a full time occupation sowing it - they want to sell their services just as much as we do, and they're very good at it. But once you cut through the FUD people are pretty receptive to the CF RAD message. Actually I'm really just banging the same old drum about selling business solutions instead of technologies. If what you sell is a person who can code in CF, you're not really talking to management at a level that they can connect with - much as I wouldn't connect with a plumber who sold themselves as a specialist fusion welder (Hmm, the other plumber told me that ".TIG" is a better welding method, and he was going to do my office for me as well in a bundle) rather than someone who could stop my pipes leaking in 20 minutes for a hundred bucks. Don't try to sell the CF Platform to business. Sell CF Solutions to business. Robin __ Robin Hilliard Director - RocketBoots Pty Ltd Consulting . Software Licensing . Recruitment . Training http://www.rocketboots.com.au For schedule/availability call Pamela Higgins: w +61 7 5451 0362 m +61 419 677 151 f +61 3 9923 6261 e [EMAIL PROTECTED] or Direct: m +61 418 414 341 e [EMAIL PROTECTED] *** Worldwide Adobe Licensing - Volume discounts now start at one point *** --~--~-~--~~~---~--~~ You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "cfaussie" group. To post to this group, send email to cfaussie@googlegroups.com To unsubscribe from this group, send email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/cfaussie -~--~~~~--~~--~--~---
[cfaussie] Re: CF vs ...
On 08/08/2006, at 10:30 PM, Scott Barnes wrote:Robin, You assume there is rational conversations taking place at the management level along with Cost benefit realisation? Who here actively has had conversations about the two with management?Well, that was actually my job for a while, and it seemed to work (Telstra for example). Most of the stuff at that level is still FUD, and plenty of Microsoft partners (e.g. Accenture in Canberra) have a full time occupation sowing it - they want to sell their services just as much as we do, and they're very good at it. But once you cut through the FUD people are pretty receptive to the CF RAD message.Actually I'm really just banging the same old drum about selling business solutions instead of technologies. If what you sell is a person who can code in CF, you're not really talking to management at a level that they can connect with - much as I wouldn't connect with a plumber who sold themselves as a specialist fusion welder (Hmm, the other plumber told me that ".TIG" is a better welding method, and he was going to do my office for me as well in a bundle) rather than someone who could stop my pipes leaking in 20 minutes for a hundred bucks.Don't try to sell the CF Platform to business. Sell CF Solutions to business.Robin __Robin HilliardDirector - RocketBoots Pty LtdConsulting . Software Licensing . Recruitment . Traininghttp://www.rocketboots.com.auFor schedule/availability call Pamela Higgins:w +61 7 5451 0362m +61 419 677 151f +61 3 9923 6261e [EMAIL PROTECTED]or Direct:m +61 418 414 341e [EMAIL PROTECTED] *** Worldwide Adobe Licensing - Volume discounts now start at one point *** --~--~-~--~~~---~--~~ You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "cfaussie" group. To post to this group, send email to cfaussie@googlegroups.com To unsubscribe from this group, send email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/cfaussie -~--~~~~--~~--~--~---
[cfaussie] Re: CF vs ...
Robin, You assume there is rational conversations taking place at the management level along with Cost benefit realisation? Who here actively has had conversations about the two with management? More to the point, who here has seen a company simply take a moment to pause, decide on a language and run with based on the below statements. Choosing either Coldfusion, Java or .NET is based on an evolution of a companys existence. It's usually decided at the start-up phase or late in the game, when there is a sudden need to shift. We are seeing a new technology religion now, called FLEX 2. It requires champions in the field, waving its flag and saying "here lies goodness, open and see". Will companies flip over night from .NET thick clients mixed with ASP.NET to say FLEX + FDS/CF7orCF8? probably not. If CF8 + Live Cycle were to be added and sudden change in the Acrobat Reader movement were to happen - well - now you have my attention says the Enterprise elite! I'd wager that if all were to trace their companies lineage as to why CF is currently in full view right now, is simply because a programmer built something first, asked second or was given a greenfield site, went with something they felt comfortable and from there the legacy was born. I've heard companies migrate away from CF simply due to Resource allocation - while at the same time - I've heard companies adopt CF simply due to some software they originally bought of the shelf had it. Point is, its flavour of the month and assuming executive levels get involved in this kind of debate is simply wishful thinking. Time, Cost and Quality - three principals in delivery cycle. On 8/8/06, Robin Hilliard <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: On 08/08/2006, at 10:37 AM, Dmitry Yakhnov wrote: Jeremy is right that " company directors makes the decisions", not developers; So give them another decision they're actually qualified to make i.e how much do you want to spend on development hours building this business solution - x in CF or 3x in .NET? And BTW you'll need to retrain and/or rehire your CF development team on top of that - do you want me to call the recruiters for you? As Scott Balmer said: "Developers! Developers! Developers!" ... and should have gone on to say "...are the most expensive part of your development budget, so RAD platforms like CF make plenty of business sense". Robin __ Robin Hilliard Director - RocketBoots Pty Ltd Consulting . Software Licensing . Recruitment . Training http://www.rocketboots.com.au For schedule/availability call Pamela Higgins: w +61 7 5451 0362 m +61 419 677 151 f +61 3 9923 6261 e [EMAIL PROTECTED] or Direct: m +61 418 414 341 e [EMAIL PROTECTED] *** Worldwide Adobe Licensing - Volume discounts now start at one point *** -- Regards,Scott Barneshttp://www.mossyblog.com --~--~-~--~~~---~--~~ You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "cfaussie" group. To post to this group, send email to cfaussie@googlegroups.com To unsubscribe from this group, send email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/cfaussie -~--~~~~--~~--~--~---
[cfaussie] Re: CF vs ...
Well I live in Canberra and there seems to be no CF work at all. --~--~-~--~~~---~--~~ You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "cfaussie" group. To post to this group, send email to cfaussie@googlegroups.com To unsubscribe from this group, send email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/cfaussie -~--~~~~--~~--~--~---
[cfaussie] Re: CF vs ...
's funny y' know I would have thought that RubyOnRails would have been the target of "get out of CF and head to" ... not the big lumbering mass that is ASP.NET (or Java/JSP for that matter) On 8/8/06, Chad Renando <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > > Although I will say that you guys are not alone. The > industry-spanning skills shortage issue is the current hot topic in my > HR course for my MBA ticket. This could easily branch out into > discussions on the strategic decision-making process and influcence of > HR and needs requirements... > > Chad > who doesn't really feel like branching just now > > On 8/8/06, Andrew Scott <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > > > > > > > > > > Yes, very interesting thread. > > > > > > > > The trends are not always good, and sometimes the people at the top don't > > make the right decisions either. We are both a java and CF house, we have > > been trying to recruit Java developers and a few C# gurus for 3 months and > > not too many have been able to do the job to the specifications or > > requirements that are required. > > > > > > > > But I will also have to say CF is in this same position, the good developers > > in any language are not out of work very long the rest might get a lucky > > break or two, but the market is as stated a skill shortage in all languages. > > It even got to the stage that my boss and agency where offering commission > > to anyone who knew any top gun java and c# developers. > > > > > > > > > > Senior Coldfusion Developer > > > > Aegeon Pty. Ltd. > > > > www.aegeon.com.au > > > > Phone: +613 8676 4223 > > > > Mobile: 0404 998 273 > > > > > > > > > > --~--~-~--~~~---~--~~ You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "cfaussie" group. To post to this group, send email to cfaussie@googlegroups.com To unsubscribe from this group, send email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/cfaussie -~--~~~~--~~--~--~---
[cfaussie] Re: CF vs ...
Although I will say that you guys are not alone. The industry-spanning skills shortage issue is the current hot topic in my HR course for my MBA ticket. This could easily branch out into discussions on the strategic decision-making process and influcence of HR and needs requirements... Chad who doesn't really feel like branching just now On 8/8/06, Andrew Scott <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > > > > > Yes, very interesting thread. > > > > The trends are not always good, and sometimes the people at the top don't > make the right decisions either. We are both a java and CF house, we have > been trying to recruit Java developers and a few C# gurus for 3 months and > not too many have been able to do the job to the specifications or > requirements that are required. > > > > But I will also have to say CF is in this same position, the good developers > in any language are not out of work very long the rest might get a lucky > break or two, but the market is as stated a skill shortage in all languages. > It even got to the stage that my boss and agency where offering commission > to anyone who knew any top gun java and c# developers. > > > > > Senior Coldfusion Developer > > Aegeon Pty. Ltd. > > www.aegeon.com.au > > Phone: +613 8676 4223 > > Mobile: 0404 998 273 > > > --~--~-~--~~~---~--~~ You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "cfaussie" group. To post to this group, send email to cfaussie@googlegroups.com To unsubscribe from this group, send email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/cfaussie -~--~~~~--~~--~--~---
[cfaussie] Re: CF vs ...
Yes, very interesting thread. The trends are not always good, and sometimes the people at the top don’t make the right decisions either. We are both a java and CF house, we have been trying to recruit Java developers and a few C# gurus for 3 months and not too many have been able to do the job to the specifications or requirements that are required. But I will also have to say CF is in this same position, the good developers in any language are not out of work very long the rest might get a lucky break or two, but the market is as stated a skill shortage in all languages. It even got to the stage that my boss and agency where offering commission to anyone who knew any top gun java and c# developers. Senior Coldfusion Developer Aegeon Pty. Ltd. www.aegeon.com.au Phone: +613 8676 4223 Mobile: 0404 998 273 From: cfaussie@googlegroups.com [mailto:cfaussie@googlegroups.com] On Behalf Of Dmitry Yakhnov Sent: Tuesday, 8 August 2006 10:38 AM To: cfaussie@googlegroups.com Subject: [cfaussie] Re: CF vs ... Whatta nice discussion has raised my post, LOL ;-) Jeremy is right that "company directors makes the decisions", not developers; while my message was about why directors thinking that .NET is better than CF – trends, jobs market and "someone told me". Best regards, Dmitry Yakhnov Web Developer http://www.yakhnov.info/ -Original Message- From: cfaussie@googlegroups.com [mailto:cfaussie@googlegroups.com] On Behalf Of Sent: Tuesday, August 08, 2006 9:02 AM To: cfaussie Subject: [cfaussie] Re: CF vs ... Guys Guys Guys, Like I said many posts ago. Its not only hosting, trends, and programmers that are the issue. It is the company directors that make the decesions. i.e. I have reason to believe we are sleeping with the enemy...(MS that is) and because we get special "treats" to work in .NET or convert our CF code over to .NET (god for bid but its only a matter of time), owners of companys go "wow that sounds like a deal". Not to mention I have to deal with brain washed .net programming morons coming out of University everyday saying we could do this or that better in .NET. idiots. Jeremy (once a CF programmer with a heart, now i'm a .NET newbie) p.s. Linux Rox windows sucks.thats for chad! HAHAHAHAHA lang=RU> --~--~-~--~~~---~--~~ You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "cfaussie" group. To post to this group, send email to cfaussie@googlegroups.com To unsubscribe from this group, send email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/cfaussie -~--~~~~--~~--~--~---
[cfaussie] Re: CF vs ...
On 08/08/2006, at 10:37 AM, Dmitry Yakhnov wrote:Jeremy is right that "company directors makes the decisions", not developers;So give them another decision they're actually qualified to make i.e how much do you want to spend on development hours building this business solution - x in CF or 3x in .NET? And BTW you'll need to retrain and/or rehire your CF development team on top of that - do you want me to call the recruiters for you?As Scott Balmer said: "Developers! Developers! Developers!" ... and should have gone on to say "...are the most expensive part of your development budget, so RAD platforms like CF make plenty of business sense".Robin __Robin HilliardDirector - RocketBoots Pty LtdConsulting . Software Licensing . Recruitment . Traininghttp://www.rocketboots.com.auFor schedule/availability call Pamela Higgins:w +61 7 5451 0362m +61 419 677 151f +61 3 9923 6261e [EMAIL PROTECTED]or Direct:m +61 418 414 341e [EMAIL PROTECTED] *** Worldwide Adobe Licensing - Volume discounts now start at one point *** --~--~-~--~~~---~--~~ You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "cfaussie" group. To post to this group, send email to cfaussie@googlegroups.com To unsubscribe from this group, send email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/cfaussie -~--~~~~--~~--~--~---
[cfaussie] Re: CF vs ...
Whatta nice discussion has raised my post, LOL ;-) Jeremy is right that "company directors makes the decisions", not developers; while my message was about why directors thinking that .NET is better than CF – trends, jobs market and "someone told me". Best regards, Dmitry Yakhnov Web Developer http://www.yakhnov.info/ -Original Message- From: cfaussie@googlegroups.com [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Sent: Tuesday, August 08, 2006 9:02 AM To: cfaussie Subject: [cfaussie] Re: CF vs ... Guys Guys Guys, Like I said many posts ago. Its not only hosting, trends, and programmers that are the issue. It is the company directors that make the decesions. i.e. I have reason to believe we are sleeping with the enemy...(MS that is) and because we get special "treats" to work in .NET or convert our CF code over to .NET (god for bid but its only a matter of time), owners of companys go "wow that sounds like a deal". Not to mention I have to deal with brain washed .net programming morons coming out of University everyday saying we could do this or that better in .NET. idiots. Jeremy (once a CF programmer with a heart, now i'm a .NET newbie) p.s. Linux Rox windows sucks.thats for chad! HAHAHAHAHA --~--~-~--~~~---~--~~ You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "cfaussie" group. To post to this group, send email to cfaussie@googlegroups.com To unsubscribe from this group, send email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/cfaussie -~--~~~~--~~--~--~---
[cfaussie] Re: CF vs ...
Guys Guys Guys, Like I said many posts ago. Its not only hosting, trends, and programmers that are the issue. It is the company directors that make the decesions. i.e. I have reason to believe we are sleeping with the enemy...(MS that is) and because we get special "treats" to work in .NET or convert our CF code over to .NET (god for bid but its only a matter of time), owners of companys go "wow that sounds like a deal". Not to mention I have to deal with brain washed .net programming morons coming out of University everyday saying we could do this or that better in .NET. idiots. Jeremy (once a CF programmer with a heart, now i'm a .NET newbie) p.s. Linux Rox windows sucks.thats for chad! HAHAHAHAHA --~--~-~--~~~---~--~~ You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "cfaussie" group. To post to this group, send email to cfaussie@googlegroups.com To unsubscribe from this group, send email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/cfaussie -~--~~~~--~~--~--~---
[cfaussie] Re: CF vs ...
I agree with Chad (Ajax Master). I think he is legit, the way I answer this question is as follows. JSP / .NET will take at least twice as long to develop anything, so you will be well and truly ahead cost wise after a single project. This is maintained going forward with updates / enhancements. Everything is simpler and quicker. So that answers the cost argument, it also means they get their stuff quicker. Regards Dale Fraser http://dale.fraser.id.au -Original Message- From: cfaussie@googlegroups.com [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Chad Renando Sent: Tuesday, 8 August 2006 8:27 AM To: cfaussie@googlegroups.com Subject: [cfaussie] Re: CF vs ... Don't assume he's trolling. We've all asked these questions... and all of us who have been on the front-end of a CF dev house have run into these arguments. The potential client didn't take to well when I said "Oh yeah? Well you're just trolling, so shut up!" The guy is CF certified and omits .NET and .asp from his skill set, showing PHP and CF, so he has some cred. Besides, we're due for the annual 50-post "Us vs. Them" schpeel. Someone will break out the server-against-server functionality comparison showing how a .NET box with the same built-in functionality costs 10 times as much, someone else will discuss how much quicker it is to do things in CF, and the rest will rail against Microsoft's monopolistic practices. We will all end up agreeing that CF is ideal for larger applications and will consistently lose out on the punch-and-crunch SME market. But don;t let me spoil the fun... go for it! Chad who's guitar gently weeps On 8/8/06, Barry Beattie <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > > ignore him, the guy's obviously trolling. a couple of glib statements > to see who'll bite does not an informed discourse make... > > > I'm actually feeling sorry for the ".NET everything" ppl**. > eg: FlexDataServices is a J2EE app and will prob NEVER be ported over > to the .NET runtime > > > ** not really. Hah! > > > On 8/8/06, M@ Bourke <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > > >Just couple other reasons to move out from CF to ASP.NET (as few clients > > told): > > > > > > Your saying we should move from cf to asp.net ? > > > > >CF hosting is expensive > > > > If cf hosting is to expensive for an employer what makes you think they are > > going to be able to afford your wage? > > if a few hundred $'s every year is to much, good luck getting a wage > > increase Ever!! > > > > And good luck getting them to spend a grand on Microsoft licensing > > > > server licenses for the market cf is aimed at ain't all that bad. > > > > smart employers will choose another language cos its right tool for the > > right job. > > Smart companies selling sites etc will use CF as a selling point. > > the other day our biggest client ($120billionUS market cap) was in and we > > made some changes in front of there eyes and they said > > "w0w that was so fast, it would have took our IT department 5 weeks, this > > coldfusion really is quick" > > > > Now I'd assume someone had told them that cf is quick and hence used cf as > > a selling point. > > > > > > >Easy to find employees with Java/.NET experience > > > > It is ?, so there is all these highly skilled devs sitting there with no > > jobs but are still highly current and highly skilled? > > same as any market if they want good employees they will have to compete > > against the competition, there will be a lot of java/.net employees to > > compete with. > > at present there is a global skills shortage in pretty much every language. > > > > >Trends to keep everything around MS > > > > WHoopdy d00, there is companies that want to keep everything java, or > > everything cf etc. > > > > > > M@ > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > --~--~-~--~~~---~--~~ You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "cfaussie" group. To post to this group, send email to cfaussie@googlegroups.com To unsubscribe from this group, send email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/cfaussie -~--~~~~--~~--~--~---
[cfaussie] Re: CF vs ...
Don't assume he's trolling. We've all asked these questions... and all of us who have been on the front-end of a CF dev house have run into these arguments. The potential client didn't take to well when I said "Oh yeah? Well you're just trolling, so shut up!" The guy is CF certified and omits .NET and .asp from his skill set, showing PHP and CF, so he has some cred. Besides, we're due for the annual 50-post "Us vs. Them" schpeel. Someone will break out the server-against-server functionality comparison showing how a .NET box with the same built-in functionality costs 10 times as much, someone else will discuss how much quicker it is to do things in CF, and the rest will rail against Microsoft's monopolistic practices. We will all end up agreeing that CF is ideal for larger applications and will consistently lose out on the punch-and-crunch SME market. But don;t let me spoil the fun... go for it! Chad who's guitar gently weeps On 8/8/06, Barry Beattie <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > > ignore him, the guy's obviously trolling. a couple of glib statements > to see who'll bite does not an informed discourse make... > > > I'm actually feeling sorry for the ".NET everything" ppl**. > eg: FlexDataServices is a J2EE app and will prob NEVER be ported over > to the .NET runtime > > > ** not really. Hah! > > > On 8/8/06, M@ Bourke <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > > >Just couple other reasons to move out from CF to ASP.NET (as few clients > > told): > > > > > > Your saying we should move from cf to asp.net ? > > > > >CF hosting is expensive > > > > If cf hosting is to expensive for an employer what makes you think they are > > going to be able to afford your wage? > > if a few hundred $'s every year is to much, good luck getting a wage > > increase Ever!! > > > > And good luck getting them to spend a grand on Microsoft licensing > > > > server licenses for the market cf is aimed at ain't all that bad. > > > > smart employers will choose another language cos its right tool for the > > right job. > > Smart companies selling sites etc will use CF as a selling point. > > the other day our biggest client ($120billionUS market cap) was in and we > > made some changes in front of there eyes and they said > > "w0w that was so fast, it would have took our IT department 5 weeks, this > > coldfusion really is quick" > > > > Now I'd assume someone had told them that cf is quick and hence used cf as > > a selling point. > > > > > > >Easy to find employees with Java/.NET experience > > > > It is ?, so there is all these highly skilled devs sitting there with no > > jobs but are still highly current and highly skilled? > > same as any market if they want good employees they will have to compete > > against the competition, there will be a lot of java/.net employees to > > compete with. > > at present there is a global skills shortage in pretty much every language. > > > > >Trends to keep everything around MS > > > > WHoopdy d00, there is companies that want to keep everything java, or > > everything cf etc. > > > > > > M@ > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > --~--~-~--~~~---~--~~ You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "cfaussie" group. To post to this group, send email to cfaussie@googlegroups.com To unsubscribe from this group, send email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/cfaussie -~--~~~~--~~--~--~---
[cfaussie] Re: CF vs ...
ignore him, the guy's obviously trolling. a couple of glib statements to see who'll bite does not an informed discourse make... I'm actually feeling sorry for the ".NET everything" ppl**. eg: FlexDataServices is a J2EE app and will prob NEVER be ported over to the .NET runtime ** not really. Hah! On 8/8/06, M@ Bourke <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > >Just couple other reasons to move out from CF to ASP.NET (as few clients > told): > > > Your saying we should move from cf to asp.net ? > > >CF hosting is expensive > > If cf hosting is to expensive for an employer what makes you think they are > going to be able to afford your wage? > if a few hundred $'s every year is to much, good luck getting a wage > increase Ever!! > > And good luck getting them to spend a grand on Microsoft licensing > > server licenses for the market cf is aimed at ain't all that bad. > > smart employers will choose another language cos its right tool for the > right job. > Smart companies selling sites etc will use CF as a selling point. > the other day our biggest client ($120billionUS market cap) was in and we > made some changes in front of there eyes and they said > "w0w that was so fast, it would have took our IT department 5 weeks, this > coldfusion really is quick" > > Now I'd assume someone had told them that cf is quick and hence used cf as > a selling point. > > > >Easy to find employees with Java/.NET experience > > It is ?, so there is all these highly skilled devs sitting there with no > jobs but are still highly current and highly skilled? > same as any market if they want good employees they will have to compete > against the competition, there will be a lot of java/.net employees to > compete with. > at present there is a global skills shortage in pretty much every language. > > >Trends to keep everything around MS > > WHoopdy d00, there is companies that want to keep everything java, or > everything cf etc. > > > M@ > > > > > > > > > > > > --~--~-~--~~~---~--~~ You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "cfaussie" group. To post to this group, send email to cfaussie@googlegroups.com To unsubscribe from this group, send email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/cfaussie -~--~~~~--~~--~--~---
[cfaussie] Re: CF vs ...
>Just couple other reasons to move out from CF to ASP.NET (as few clients told):Your saying we should move from cf to asp.net ? >CF hosting is expensiveIf cf hosting is to expensive for an employer what makes you think they are going to be able to afford your wage? if a few hundred $'s every year is to much, good luck getting a wage increase Ever!!And good luck getting them to spend a grand on Microsoft licensing server licenses for the market cf is aimed at ain't all that bad. smart employers will choose another language cos its right tool for the right job. Smart companies selling sites etc will use CF as a selling point. the other day our biggest client ($120billionUS market cap) was in and we made some changes in front of there eyes and they said "w0w that was so fast, it would have took our IT department 5 weeks, this coldfusion really is quick" Now I'd assume someone had told them that cf is quick and hence used cf as a selling point. >Easy to find employees with Java/.NET experience It is ?, so there is all these highly skilled devs sitting there with no jobs but are still highly current and highly skilled?same as any market if they want good employees they will have to compete against the competition, there will be a lot of java/.net employees to compete with. at present there is a global skills shortage in pretty much every language. >Trends to keep everything around MSWHoopdy d00, there is companies that want to keep everything java, or everything cf etc.M@ --~--~-~--~~~---~--~~ You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "cfaussie" group. To post to this group, send email to cfaussie@googlegroups.com To unsubscribe from this group, send email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/cfaussie -~--~~~~--~~--~--~---
