[cfaussie] Re: Coldfusion and Micrsoft Love.
Scott, I'm sure we can host a salesman anonymous meeting at WebDU and you can join the group and say Hi, My name is Scott... and I'm a salesman once you've done it you'll feel much better I'm sure. Afterwards you can get out your diamond plated company credit card and we will give you free rein to tell us the wonders of MS whilst it stays on the bar - I'll be good to give you hours and hours of attentive listening ;-) Grant On Jan 30, 9:12 pm, Scott Barnes [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Heh, the old MS buys Adobe rumour. I'm no legal eagle, but I'd wager that the Department Of Justice and the Consent Decree would have a thing or two to say about that idea, so fear not Peter :0 On 1/30/07, Peter Tilbrook [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: I was for a time concerned about Microsoft acquiring Macromedia (MM). By then MM had done some smart things with Flash, moved CF to the J2EE platform, etc. But Microsoft have, even since Allaire days, been if not a competitor then at least MM was an acquisition target. All of us old-timers remember the threat year after year (Microsoft acquires Allaire/MM etc). I've been with Allaire, MM and now Adobe for over 11.5 years now (or close enough to it). The Adobe acquisition came out of the blue. And I hated the idea. Am still not convinced (entirely). MM made great guns in involving the developer and end-user community in the pushing forward of the new tech. So far Adobe (with a lot of MM employees) are doing OK. I mean look at the LABS site - a great initiative started by MM. Microsoft is more jam it down your throat. Take it or leave it. Dreamweaver 8 and FlexBuilder 2 are now my primary IDE's. Microsoft's effort take up too much space, too much OS control, and too damn slow. I have enormous respect for ScottyB, yes he is now employed by the enemy, but as far as pushing the conversation to a degree that things will actually happen - best job ever. Microsoft and Adobe are now true competitors in almost every space bar the OS (operating system). Both companies employ some of the smartest and dedicated people on the planet. However they should remain competitors. My heart would stop beating if M$ ever acquired Adobe. If that happens - find a buyer for ColdFusion alone (not easy I realise). -- Regards, Scott Barneshttp://www.mossyblog.com --~--~-~--~~~---~--~~ You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups cfaussie group. To post to this group, send email to cfaussie@googlegroups.com To unsubscribe from this group, send email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/cfaussie?hl=en -~--~~~~--~~--~--~---
[cfaussie] Re: Coldfusion and Micrsoft Love.
Scott, I'm sure we can host a salesman anonymous meeting at WebDU and you can join the group and say Hi, My name is Scott... and I'm a salesman once you've done it you'll feel much better I'm sure. Afterwards you can get out your diamond plated company credit card and we will give you free rein to tell us the wonders of MS whilst it stays on the bar - I'll be good to give you hours and hours of attentive listening ;-) Har! I'd buy THAT for a dollar! --~--~-~--~~~---~--~~ You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups cfaussie group. To post to this group, send email to cfaussie@googlegroups.com To unsubscribe from this group, send email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/cfaussie?hl=en -~--~~~~--~~--~--~---
[cfaussie] Re: Coldfusion and Micrsoft Love.
LoL! :) I'm not just a bar tab you know, I have feelings... why do you always treat me like some bar tab hussy :) hehehe On 1/31/07, Grant Straker [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Scott, I'm sure we can host a salesman anonymous meeting at WebDU and you can join the group and say Hi, My name is Scott... and I'm a salesman once you've done it you'll feel much better I'm sure. Afterwards you can get out your diamond plated company credit card and we will give you free rein to tell us the wonders of MS whilst it stays on the bar - I'll be good to give you hours and hours of attentive listening ;-) Grant On Jan 30, 9:12 pm, Scott Barnes [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Heh, the old MS buys Adobe rumour. I'm no legal eagle, but I'd wager that the Department Of Justice and the Consent Decree would have a thing or two to say about that idea, so fear not Peter :0 On 1/30/07, Peter Tilbrook [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: I was for a time concerned about Microsoft acquiring Macromedia (MM). By then MM had done some smart things with Flash, moved CF to the J2EE platform, etc. But Microsoft have, even since Allaire days, been if not a competitor then at least MM was an acquisition target. All of us old-timers remember the threat year after year (Microsoft acquires Allaire/MM etc). I've been with Allaire, MM and now Adobe for over 11.5 years now (or close enough to it). The Adobe acquisition came out of the blue. And I hated the idea. Am still not convinced (entirely). MM made great guns in involving the developer and end-user community in the pushing forward of the new tech. So far Adobe (with a lot of MM employees) are doing OK. I mean look at the LABS site - a great initiative started by MM. Microsoft is more jam it down your throat. Take it or leave it. Dreamweaver 8 and FlexBuilder 2 are now my primary IDE's. Microsoft's effort take up too much space, too much OS control, and too damn slow. I have enormous respect for ScottyB, yes he is now employed by the enemy, but as far as pushing the conversation to a degree that things will actually happen - best job ever. Microsoft and Adobe are now true competitors in almost every space bar the OS (operating system). Both companies employ some of the smartest and dedicated people on the planet. However they should remain competitors. My heart would stop beating if M$ ever acquired Adobe. If that happens - find a buyer for ColdFusion alone (not easy I realise). -- Regards, Scott Barneshttp://www.mossyblog.com -- Regards, Scott Barnes http://www.mossyblog.com --~--~-~--~~~---~--~~ You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups cfaussie group. To post to this group, send email to cfaussie@googlegroups.com To unsubscribe from this group, send email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/cfaussie?hl=en -~--~~~~--~~--~--~---
[cfaussie] Re: Coldfusion and Micrsoft Love.
bar tabs have no feelings, and you know if I was in oz, I'd be abusing you Mr Bar Tab --~--~-~--~~~---~--~~ You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups cfaussie group. To post to this group, send email to cfaussie@googlegroups.com To unsubscribe from this group, send email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/cfaussie?hl=en -~--~~~~--~~--~--~---
[cfaussie] Re: Coldfusion and Micrsoft Love.
Heh, the old MS buys Adobe rumour. I'm no legal eagle, but I'd wager that the Department Of Justice and the Consent Decree would have a thing or two to say about that idea, so fear not Peter :0 On 1/30/07, Peter Tilbrook [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: I was for a time concerned about Microsoft acquiring Macromedia (MM). By then MM had done some smart things with Flash, moved CF to the J2EE platform, etc. But Microsoft have, even since Allaire days, been if not a competitor then at least MM was an acquisition target. All of us old-timers remember the threat year after year (Microsoft acquires Allaire/MM etc). I've been with Allaire, MM and now Adobe for over 11.5 years now (or close enough to it). The Adobe acquisition came out of the blue. And I hated the idea. Am still not convinced (entirely). MM made great guns in involving the developer and end-user community in the pushing forward of the new tech. So far Adobe (with a lot of MM employees) are doing OK. I mean look at the LABS site - a great initiative started by MM. Microsoft is more jam it down your throat. Take it or leave it. Dreamweaver 8 and FlexBuilder 2 are now my primary IDE's. Microsoft's effort take up too much space, too much OS control, and too damn slow. I have enormous respect for ScottyB, yes he is now employed by the enemy, but as far as pushing the conversation to a degree that things will actually happen - best job ever. Microsoft and Adobe are now true competitors in almost every space bar the OS (operating system). Both companies employ some of the smartest and dedicated people on the planet. However they should remain competitors. My heart would stop beating if M$ ever acquired Adobe. If that happens - find a buyer for ColdFusion alone (not easy I realise). -- Regards, Scott Barnes http://www.mossyblog.com --~--~-~--~~~---~--~~ You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups cfaussie group. To post to this group, send email to cfaussie@googlegroups.com To unsubscribe from this group, send email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/cfaussie?hl=en -~--~~~~--~~--~--~---
[cfaussie] Re: Coldfusion and Micrsoft Love.
Hey Guys, I just thought i'd chuck in my 2 cents worth here... For a start, I don't think this is about Microsoft bashing. I think the main issue here is, that whilst i'm sure Scott has the best of (personal) intentions in educating the masses about the best tools for the job'. At the end of the day (or is that sales chain) what he's ultimately offering, amounts to nothing more than a Microsoft sales pitch (targeted towards Adobe customers (hence it appearing in this CF forum)). Having said that (Mike), I don't think anyone is against hearing sales pitches per se' - but lets be up front about them. Don't wrap them up in rhetoric about 'best tool for the job' or 'show and tell' sessions. Scott also mentions that he couldn't care one way or another if we bought into what he's talking about - but i'd hazard a guess his employer definitely does! And i'm sorry to be the one to break the news to you mate, but Microsoft didn't employ you for your whit, charm and good looks ;-) Your official mandate as Microsoft Developer Evangelist is to 'increase product awareness (primarily to Adobe customers *he coughs under his breath*). So whether you want to admit it or not, the ultimate result of this increased (product) awareness, is to increase sales (and maybe make a few conversions along the way). For what its worth, I personally think your 'compare and contrast' approach to an 'information session' definitely has its merits - so long as the sessions are totally balanced and unbiased. Unfortunately, your position with Microsoft ultimately means that this can't be the case. I hardly think Microsoft are going to endorse you pimping a competitor's solution/product at an event they're funding/sponsoring - even if the solution/product is better than theirs! Combined with this, you run the very real risk of alienating Abobe product users (supporters) by having these (compare-and-contrast) sessions ultimately ending up on the Microsoft side of the fence - essentially resulting in them being nothing more than Adobe bagging sessions. If I could make a few suggestions regarding how to best tackle/promote these sessions... 1. If you want to do compare-and-contrast sessions (read sales pitches) please don't hide them under the guise of 'show-and-tell' sessions. Granted you might actually be demo'ing some Microsoft's latest and greatest offerings, but lets get real and call a spade a spade (or at the very least acknowledge what they really are!) 2. Unfortunately, your current position doesn't afford you the luxury of being a 'tools' fence sitter (I said tools not tool ;-) As such, don't hide the fact you work for Microsoft (as you've had a tendency to do in the past). Transparency is the key. 3. I'm not really sure that promoting Microsoft tools/solutions in a ColdFusion forum is the right place to be doing this. Sure, there may be some CF'ers out there who are keen to see what offerings MS have up their sleeves. But i'd hazard a guess if that were the case, I don't think a CF forum would but the first place I would come looking for info on MS solutions. --~--~-~--~~~---~--~~ You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups cfaussie group. To post to this group, send email to cfaussie@googlegroups.com To unsubscribe from this group, send email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/cfaussie?hl=en -~--~~~~--~~--~--~---
[cfaussie] Re: Coldfusion and Micrsoft Love.
hey, if you can't take their money, drink their booze and then vote against them, you don't belong in this business - Alan Alda's character in the West Wing On 1/29/07, Matt Voerman [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Hey Guys, I just thought i'd chuck in my 2 cents worth here... For a start, I don't think this is about Microsoft bashing. I think the main issue here is, that whilst i'm sure Scott has the best of (personal) intentions in educating the masses about the best tools for the job'. At the end of the day (or is that sales chain) what he's ultimately offering, amounts to nothing more than a Microsoft sales pitch (targeted towards Adobe customers (hence it appearing in this CF forum)). Having said that (Mike), I don't think anyone is against hearing sales pitches per se' - but lets be up front about them. Don't wrap them up in rhetoric about 'best tool for the job' or 'show and tell' sessions. Scott also mentions that he couldn't care one way or another if we bought into what he's talking about - but i'd hazard a guess his employer definitely does! And i'm sorry to be the one to break the news to you mate, but Microsoft didn't employ you for your whit, charm and good looks ;-) Your official mandate as Microsoft Developer Evangelist is to 'increase product awareness (primarily to Adobe customers *he coughs under his breath*). So whether you want to admit it or not, the ultimate result of this increased (product) awareness, is to increase sales (and maybe make a few conversions along the way). For what its worth, I personally think your 'compare and contrast' approach to an 'information session' definitely has its merits - so long as the sessions are totally balanced and unbiased. Unfortunately, your position with Microsoft ultimately means that this can't be the case. I hardly think Microsoft are going to endorse you pimping a competitor's solution/product at an event they're funding/sponsoring - even if the solution/product is better than theirs! Combined with this, you run the very real risk of alienating Abobe product users (supporters) by having these (compare-and-contrast) sessions ultimately ending up on the Microsoft side of the fence - essentially resulting in them being nothing more than Adobe bagging sessions. If I could make a few suggestions regarding how to best tackle/promote these sessions... 1. If you want to do compare-and-contrast sessions (read sales pitches) please don't hide them under the guise of 'show-and-tell' sessions. Granted you might actually be demo'ing some Microsoft's latest and greatest offerings, but lets get real and call a spade a spade (or at the very least acknowledge what they really are!) 2. Unfortunately, your current position doesn't afford you the luxury of being a 'tools' fence sitter (I said tools not tool ;-) As such, don't hide the fact you work for Microsoft (as you've had a tendency to do in the past). Transparency is the key. 3. I'm not really sure that promoting Microsoft tools/solutions in a ColdFusion forum is the right place to be doing this. Sure, there may be some CF'ers out there who are keen to see what offerings MS have up their sleeves. But i'd hazard a guess if that were the case, I don't think a CF forum would but the first place I would come looking for info on MS solutions. --~--~-~--~~~---~--~~ You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups cfaussie group. To post to this group, send email to cfaussie@googlegroups.com To unsubscribe from this group, send email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/cfaussie?hl=en -~--~~~~--~~--~--~---
[cfaussie] Re: Coldfusion and Micrsoft Love.
All this MS-talk and no-one mentioned... It's the night of the Vista release Let the bugs spew forth! Muahahahahaha (It's a full moon too) --~--~-~--~~~---~--~~ You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups cfaussie group. To post to this group, send email to cfaussie@googlegroups.com To unsubscribe from this group, send email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/cfaussie?hl=en -~--~~~~--~~--~--~---
[cfaussie] Re: Coldfusion and Micrsoft Love.
I actually appreciated Micro$ofts involvement in last years WebDU. Full Visual Studio 2005 (rarely used - I use Dreamweaver 8 mainly) but the SQL Server 2005 licence has been invaluable. -- Peter Tilbrook ColdGen Internet Solutions President, ACT and Region ColdFusion Users Group PO Box 2247 Queanbeyan, NSW, 2620 AUSTRALIA http://www.coldgen.com/ http://www.actcfug.com/ Tel: +61-2-6284-2727 Mob: +61-0432-897-437 Email: [EMAIL PROTECTED] --~--~-~--~~~---~--~~ You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups cfaussie group. To post to this group, send email to cfaussie@googlegroups.com To unsubscribe from this group, send email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/cfaussie?hl=en -~--~~~~--~~--~--~---
[cfaussie] Re: Coldfusion and Micrsoft Love.
On 1/29/07, Matt Voerman [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Hey Guys, I just thought i'd chuck in my 2 cents worth here... Only 2c's? :P For a start, I don't think this is about Microsoft bashing. I think the main issue here is, that whilst i'm sure Scott has the best of (personal) intentions in educating the masses about the best tools for the job'. At the end of the day (or is that sales chain) what he's ultimately offering, amounts to nothing more than a Microsoft sales pitch (targeted towards Adobe customers (hence it appearing in this CF Think being the keyword. I again draw you back to the original post, whereby I am asking (permission based marketing if you will) whether anyone on the list be interested in getting an expansion on how some of the Microsoft products maybe be of interest to the CF developer here. I've gotten quite a lot of responses as being yes. Its not a pitch, its a question. I clearly stated my intent, reason and proposed outcome in a transparent manner. Keep it context is all I ask, and so far both you and Grant haven't :) (which I can understand how easy it can be to do so, but in reality you're kind of putting words and assumptions on my behalf without actually consulting me first before hand - so its kind of unfair?) I also clearly stated its a show tell, which is the exact same format as what we are all used to with existing User Group Presentations (they aren't sales pitches are they? so what gives, and don't play the MSFTE card as its getting old). forum)). Having said that (Mike), I don't think anyone is against hearing sales pitches per se' - but lets be up front about them. Don't wrap them up in rhetoric about 'best tool for the job' or 'show and tell' sessions. You're entitled to your opinion, but I wouldn't assume its right :). It is a show and tell, its not a sales pitch. There is no call to action post its session. It's here is the tools, this is what they can do, heres an example of some code, any questions? Pretty much the same format given in again, most User Groups we have all attended monthly? (So do you feel Apollo presentations are sales pitches or informative sessions? Does that also mean Adobe must also abide by the same rules? what are the rules? Point is you're playing the MSFTE card again stating the above. If you harbour distrust towards the company thats cool, sorry to hear that, but it would be a personal issue outside of the context of this discussion). Scott also mentions that he couldn't care one way or another if we bought into what he's talking about - but i'd hazard a guess his employer definitely does! And i'm sorry to be the one to break the news to you mate, but Microsoft didn't employ you for your whit, charm and good looks ;-) Your official mandate as Microsoft Developer Evangelist is to 'increase product awareness (primarily to Adobe customers *he coughs under his breath*). So whether you want to admit I'm sorry Matt, were you on the selection panel? does my boss Frank confide in you on what I'm paid to do vs not paid to do? In order to answer that remark, you first need to grasp why the Evangelist roles exist world-wide in Microsoft ( I could spend a novel on why, but this bit kind of summarises it). As an ICT industry leader whose technology products are used by millions of consumers, businesses, and organizations worldwide, Microsoft has a responsibility to develop technology that is based on commonly used standards and to make sure our products work well with those of other companies—including those of our competitors. To help promote innovation, enable greater security throughout the industry, and foster new economic opportunities, we also have a responsibility to share the source code of our leading products... it or not, the ultimate result of this increased (product) awareness, is to increase sales (and maybe make a few conversions along the way). Actually, its more about Technology Adoption LifeCycle then awareness. I'd prefer you do your homework some more on what Evangelists do to be honest :) (It took me a while to get my head around it). For what its worth, I personally think your 'compare and contrast' approach to an 'information session' definitely has its merits - so That my friend is why we have threads like this. Its a dangerous position to be in, because lets say for arguments sake Microsoft has the better solution, by say 53% of the majority vote of sampled developers. I then get up in front of one and all, and talk about how great it is vs the others. I give the other technologies a dress down in terms of the cons. Would that not come off as being forced opinion. I'd prefer to simply declare warts and all, on what it can do and can't do and then let the others come to their own conclusion as to which is the right fit. As not to do so, is a sales pitch and that's what you've stated you don't want? (so now you want it? - confused?) long as the sessions are totally balanced and
[cfaussie] Re: Coldfusion and Micrsoft Love.
Mike, I am a salesman and totally believe in sales pitches - how else would I sell my own products. As I general rule sales people don't trawl lists pushing products, if this is a standard practice it would save me a lot of marketing money, if you're saying that community lists are happy for this to happen then I'm out of touch and need to reassess our marketing strategy. In my experience people generally react badly to this strategy but maybe I'm not bold enough and don't have a big enough brand to pull it off. I don't hate Microsoft at all and use their products extensively,ultimately they are a one platform product which means we primarily use the Adobe product set as we need to support multiple clients / server platforms. ( I won't be drawn into a MS v Adobe thread as this would see Scotts KPI's sky rocket I'm sure). Scott, Actually, its more about Technology Adoption LifeCycle then awareness. I'd prefer you do your homework some more on what Evangelists do to be honest :) (It took me a while to get my head around it). I'm sorry but the Technology Adoption LifeCycle is all about selling the next generation of your product, nothing more , nothing less - Sales,Sales and more Sales!!!. Evangelist is a fancy word for a technical sales person and it makes people coming from a technology background into sales feel better about it. There are I'm sure, a lot of people on this list who need to interact with MS technologies and that is one of the key reasons for adding better .Net support to CF8 as it was based on community feedback. When Straker, as a small company based on the bottom of the planet want to market to developers to PAY for advertising on CF/Felx sites and forums, I'm sure MS with their $$ budgets could advertise directly to developers rather than starting a trend where by every vendor out their will now be turning technical lists into mass marketing tools. I actually think Daemon should look at offering sponsorship on the list to make things clear. Grant On Jan 30, 4:56 am, Scott Barnes [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: On 1/29/07, Matt Voerman [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Hey Guys, I just thought i'd chuck in my 2 cents worth here...Only 2c's? :P For a start, I don't think this is about Microsoft bashing. I think the main issue here is, that whilst i'm sure Scott has the best of (personal) intentions in educating the masses about the best tools for the job'. At the end of the day (or is that sales chain) what he's ultimately offering, amounts to nothing more than a Microsoft sales pitch (targeted towards Adobe customers (hence it appearing in this CFThink being the keyword. I again draw you back to the original post, whereby I am asking (permission based marketing if you will) whether anyone on the list be interested in getting an expansion on how some of the Microsoft products maybe be of interest to the CF developer here. I've gotten quite a lot of responses as being yes. Its not a pitch, its a question. I clearly stated my intent, reason and proposed outcome in a transparent manner. Keep it context is all I ask, and so far both you and Grant haven't :) (which I can understand how easy it can be to do so, but in reality you're kind of putting words and assumptions on my behalf without actually consulting me first before hand - so its kind of unfair?) I also clearly stated its a show tell, which is the exact same format as what we are all used to with existing User Group Presentations (they aren't sales pitches are they? so what gives, and don't play the MSFTE card as its getting old). forum)). Having said that (Mike), I don't think anyone is against hearing sales pitches per se' - but lets be up front about them. Don't wrap them up in rhetoric about 'best tool for the job' or 'show and tell' sessions.You're entitled to your opinion, but I wouldn't assume its right :). It is a show and tell, its not a sales pitch. There is no call to action post its session. It's here is the tools, this is what they can do, heres an example of some code, any questions? Pretty much the same format given in again, most User Groups we have all attended monthly? (So do you feel Apollo presentations are sales pitches or informative sessions? Does that also mean Adobe must also abide by the same rules? what are the rules? Point is you're playing the MSFTE card again stating the above. If you harbour distrust towards the company thats cool, sorry to hear that, but it would be a personal issue outside of the context of this discussion). Scott also mentions that he couldn't care one way or another if we bought into what he's talking about - but i'd hazard a guess his employer definitely does! And i'm sorry to be the one to break the news to you mate, but Microsoft didn't employ you for your whit, charm and good looks ;-) Your official mandate as Microsoft Developer Evangelist is to 'increase product awareness (primarily
[cfaussie] Re: Coldfusion and Micrsoft Love.
Scott Barnes wrote: As an ICT industry leader whose technology products are used by millions of consumers, businesses, and organizations worldwide, Microsoft has a responsibility to develop technology that is based on commonly used standards and to make sure our products work well with those of other companies—including those of our competitors. To help promote innovation, enable greater security throughout the industry, and foster new economic opportunities, we also have a responsibility to share the source code of our leading products... How can they say that with a straight face when Internet Explorer is still out there, giving the developers that they claim to love grief? The proof is in the pudding, so to speak. I'm sorry if this is: a) A cheap shot b) A complete tangent to this thread. But I just can't read that with a straight face. (And this remark is directed at MS, not you, Scott). I'll shut up now. --~--~-~--~~~---~--~~ You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups cfaussie group. To post to this group, send email to cfaussie@googlegroups.com To unsubscribe from this group, send email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/cfaussie?hl=en -~--~~~~--~~--~--~---
[cfaussie] Re: Coldfusion and Micrsoft Love.
It's an Image problem we faced from the old days when we were about maximum market share. I think the share holders would like them to be about maximum market share and no doubt that's always MS's goal. only reason they don't have maximum market share in every field is because they are in to many fields and most of the fields they are crap at, only 2 things they do well is maintaining the number 1 spot with there OS and there over priced office software of which 98% of users use 2% of the features. Last I checked this was a CF list not an adobe list, if Oracle, MS, Toyota or who ever wants to ask if we'd like to know how we can use there products with CF then I say let them ask, we can simply say no if we don't want to go for the ride. It's obvious Scott's employer would be wanting him to sell there products to us, as long as we don't have to pay for the advertisement then let them try, I know for a fact I'd only take up the products if I thought it was better for me/what I do then current tools. so what have I got to lose? --~--~-~--~~~---~--~~ You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups cfaussie group. To post to this group, send email to cfaussie@googlegroups.com To unsubscribe from this group, send email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/cfaussie?hl=en -~--~~~~--~~--~--~---
[cfaussie] Re: Coldfusion and Micrsoft Love.
I'm with Haikal. I'm currently writing my own js implementation of document.createElement() since the company that Scott wrote 'has a responsibility to develop technology that is based on commonly used standards' didn't seem to place much importance on adding NAMED elements to generated form elements. FFS. I have no problem with bashing microsoft while they continue to push out buggy sh1tware and implement their own set of halfa55ed standards. I know it's off topic but honestly I've had enough and I know there are MS ears out there. --~--~-~--~~~---~--~~ You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups cfaussie group. To post to this group, send email to cfaussie@googlegroups.com To unsubscribe from this group, send email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/cfaussie?hl=en -~--~~~~--~~--~--~---
[cfaussie] Re: Coldfusion and Micrsoft Love.
Disagree Grant 100% . You're pitching the whole he's Microsoft, he has an agenda angle. Yeah I do have an agenda, and thats to open guys i've known and worked with along with new blood into the possibility that .NET etc isn't all that bad or hard to use. The question I have for you is, What if i'm right!. I'm only a month into Microsoft, It's actually not that bad to work for. They have a mandate (by law in most parts) to change their posture into making it more friendly to competitors so the trick for me, especially after today's luanch, is to work on ways to illustrate to one and all that there is more to Microsoft then previously seen. We just launched Windows Vista in Sydney CBD. I watched Rogue Traders play to our consumer launch, I heard the speakers mention all the new things that are being launched within Vista and Office 2007 (Kodak is integrated with Vista, Sanity Music Download Mp3's is now part of Media Player, BigPond Movies on-demand is now part of Media Centre which comes with Vista and so on). I've seen numbers been thrown around by both Apple and Adobe. I've heard and watched all the negative PR around WPF and Internet Explorer and its not that I'm not getting that they aren't perfect. Yeah Internet Explorer probably needs more work, Yeah WPF isn't done, Yeah WPF/E is looking to become one day bigger and better. Just remember that today is officially the day when Microsoft decided to go to market (as this is a significant milestone in Microsofts future/history, and Australia NZ are the first for once!), the starting gun was fired - today - for the first time really since XP launch. So like/hate Microsoft all you want, thats fine but as a developer, start thinking about the 5 year mark. Where do you think Microsoft is going to be in 5 years, what if Windows Vista is not only as successful as XP but more successful then ever. What if. You guys are given a seed in my upcoming show tells, its still your responsibility to decide what to do with it. You won't be able to buy product on the night, I won't send in sales teams or do followups with anyone post the event. I'll simply move on to the next project I have on the books, but should you decide to take your career down the road that has Microsoft pieces in it, all I can do for you is provide you a few guide posts and put you in touch with some other folks to help you, but thats it (I mean I've already put someone within the Adobe community that i know has great potential on an upcoming Plane to Redmond US, so that they can gain a deeper insight into what's possible with Microsoft, stuff I just can't answer here locally - no catch by the way). That's my sales pitch, its that I can only show you where the path begins, its up to you to decide on whether you want to travel it, I can't force you and I choose not to. I'm a developer that can now program in Coldfusion, Java, MXML, ActionScript 1.0, 2.0, 3.0, C#, VB, XAML and so on. Does that make me worse of or better off having these languages under my belt (I also plan on getting certified in all of the above to re-inforce my belief that knowing of a language vs knowing it, is entirely different things). So now I can talk about a lot of things and about a lot of products, I'll keep a trained eye on Microsofts offerings, but I'm not stupid enough to try and ram a product for the sake of it down your throats. As while I could do that and make a sale, In the end its used-car-salesman approach which is worse then not making the sale. So have your debates on whether MS are good vs evil, or whether I sold out or didn't I'm moving on, but let me know if you want my help (in all of the above languages) as I now get paid to do just that, help. Balls in your court guys but I'm out. P.S Internet Explorer is a standard unto itself, one could argue that its the benchmark that is used in contrast. The word standard can mean different things to different people. In the case today, you guys associated standard as being complying with W3C standards, yet one could argue that is simply a standard browser at the core, in that its basic function is to allow you to surf the web? It's interesting though to note the reaction and I've past it up to corp as an FYI, as I can see your perspectives on it and agree, IE could do more. P.S.S I'm a shareholder of Microsoft M@ and You'd be suprised my wants and needs from them :) On 1/30/07, Grant Straker [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Mike, I am a salesman and totally believe in sales pitches - how else would I sell my own products. As I general rule sales people don't trawl lists pushing products, if this is a standard practice it would save me a lot of marketing money, if you're saying that community lists are happy for this to happen then I'm out of touch and need to reassess our marketing strategy. In my experience people generally react badly to this strategy but maybe I'm not bold enough and don't have a big enough brand to pull it off. I don't hate
[cfaussie] Re: Coldfusion and Micrsoft Love.
I was for a time concerned about Microsoft acquiring Macromedia (MM). By then MM had done some smart things with Flash, moved CF to the J2EE platform, etc. But Microsoft have, even since Allaire days, been if not a competitor then at least MM was an acquisition target. All of us old-timers remember the threat year after year (Microsoft acquires Allaire/MM etc). I've been with Allaire, MM and now Adobe for over 11.5 years now (or close enough to it). The Adobe acquisition came out of the blue. And I hated the idea. Am still not convinced (entirely). MM made great guns in involving the developer and end-user community in the pushing forward of the new tech. So far Adobe (with a lot of MM employees) are doing OK. I mean look at the LABS site - a great initiative started by MM. Microsoft is more jam it down your throat. Take it or leave it. Dreamweaver 8 and FlexBuilder 2 are now my primary IDE's. Microsoft's effort take up too much space, too much OS control, and too damn slow. I have enormous respect for ScottyB, yes he is now employed by the enemy, but as far as pushing the conversation to a degree that things will actually happen - best job ever. Microsoft and Adobe are now true competitors in almost every space bar the OS (operating system). Both companies employ some of the smartest and dedicated people on the planet. However they should remain competitors. My heart would stop beating if M$ ever acquired Adobe. If that happens - find a buyer for ColdFusion alone (not easy I realise). --~--~-~--~~~---~--~~ You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups cfaussie group. To post to this group, send email to cfaussie@googlegroups.com To unsubscribe from this group, send email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/cfaussie?hl=en -~--~~~~--~~--~--~---
[cfaussie] Re: Coldfusion and Micrsoft Love.
Grant, we often get led off into concerns that arent anything to do with us. If you work for Adobe, and your job is to promote ColdFusion over competing products, then you would be watching anything Microsoft does and would want to one-up them whenever you can. Great. That's now the capitalist system works, and it encourages innovation. For the vast majority of us on this list however, we DON'T work for Adobe, we work as web developers for a whole variety of organisations, or for ourselves, and it's our job as developers to learn as much as possible about the things available to us to do our job better. We shouldn't get blinded by Adobe's goals. If Scott wants to give us some information about what Micosoft has to offer, I say that's a terrific thing. He has good experience of ColdFusion and could put a perspective on it that few others would or could. Grant, what if Scott could tell you about some little-known aspect of a Microsoft product that could revolutionise your development life? You'd be a mug not to listen, just because it might offend Adobe? They're big grown up boys now, they can look after themselves. It's our job to get ourselves across as many of the internet disciplines as possible. Count me in Scott. Sounds like a bloody good thing to me! Cheers Mike Kear Windsor, NSW, Australia Adobe Certified Advanced ColdFusion Developer AFP Webworks http://afpwebworks.com ColdFusion, PHP, ASP, ASP.NET hosting from AUD$15/month --~--~-~--~~~---~--~~ You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups cfaussie group. To post to this group, send email to cfaussie@googlegroups.com To unsubscribe from this group, send email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/cfaussie?hl=en -~--~~~~--~~--~--~---
[cfaussie] Re: Coldfusion and Micrsoft Love.
I'd likely be interested in coming along to something like this. Especially if it's free. ;) I spent the last few months seriously under-employed, so there isn't a great deal of spare cash around if I want to keep being able to pay my rent. *sigh* Cheers, Seona. --~--~-~--~~~---~--~~ You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups cfaussie group. To post to this group, send email to cfaussie@googlegroups.com To unsubscribe from this group, send email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/cfaussie?hl=en -~--~~~~--~~--~--~---
[cfaussie] Re: Coldfusion and Micrsoft Love.
Mike, Product evangelist is basically a fancy name for technical sales person, I've never meet an Adobe evangelist who wasn't trying to sell me something and I'm sure Microsoft evangelists are the same. I guess my issue is that reading when Scott is saying (I have no issues with Scott as a person, respect his technical ability and have known him several years) he is not interested in selling anything, has no sales bent and is impartial on technology I don't think this is the case. For example Scott says it's not a sales pitch but will have a pre- sales team on hand, off course it's a sales pitch!. Even if Scott is not directly measured on sales he will be part of a team that is and the cost of the events will, for sure be coming from a sales and marketing budget. He is also measured for getting awareness of xyz products so the more he posts links and info on this to the mailing list the more he is hitting his KPI's. I guess my issue is that Scott is in a technical sales role and is on the list trying his hardest to appear as an impartial technologist which he is not, he gave up that right when he joined Microsoft, in the same way that I gave up being impartial to CF and Flex when we build our products on those platforms. As I said, I have no problem with Scott or with Microsoft (around 60% of our clients deploy that that platform and half our internal servers run the OS) but I do have an issues with the marketing technique as if we tried it (posting about our technology on a competitors community list) we would get hammered for it. Grant On Jan 29, 2:16 pm, Mike Kear [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Grant, we often get led off into concerns that arent anything to do with us. If you work for Adobe, and your job is to promote ColdFusion over competing products, then you would be watching anything Microsoft does and would want to one-up them whenever you can. Great. That's now the capitalist system works, and it encourages innovation. For the vast majority of us on this list however, we DON'T work for Adobe, we work as web developers for a whole variety of organisations, or for ourselves, and it's our job as developers to learn as much as possible about the things available to us to do our job better. We shouldn't get blinded by Adobe's goals. If Scott wants to give us some information about what Micosoft has to offer, I say that's a terrific thing. He has good experience of ColdFusion and could put a perspective on it that few others would or could. Grant, what if Scott could tell you about some little-known aspect of a Microsoft product that could revolutionise your development life? You'd be a mug not to listen, just because it might offend Adobe? They're big grown up boys now, they can look after themselves. It's our job to get ourselves across as many of the internet disciplines as possible. Count me in Scott. Sounds like a bloody good thing to me! Cheers Mike Kear Windsor, NSW, Australia Adobe Certified Advanced ColdFusion Developer AFP Webworkshttp://afpwebworks.com ColdFusion, PHP, ASP, ASP.NET hosting from AUD$15/month --~--~-~--~~~---~--~~ You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups cfaussie group. To post to this group, send email to cfaussie@googlegroups.com To unsubscribe from this group, send email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/cfaussie?hl=en -~--~~~~--~~--~--~---
[cfaussie] Re: Coldfusion and Micrsoft Love.
I'm sorry Scott but how is this not a sales pitch, this is what you were hired by Microsoft to do... On 25/01/07, Scott Barnes [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Hey Kids, Since the Ted vs Barnes blog thing, I've been getting a lot of emails from CF`ers of old, who are looking to broaden their horizons somewhat. So with that in mind, I thought It may be worthwhile to float an idea past you all and see if it's got legs (since Microsoft haven't been invited to WebDU, this maybe an alternative approach). I'm thinking of doing a bit of a national tour (need to work out how I can hide that in terms of expense report(s) heh) but, I'm willing to showcase some of the new Microsoft goodness that will compliment the average Coldfusion Developer out there (so make sure its relevant to you guys and not try and turn you into hardcore ASP.NET developers overnight), while at the same time answer any questions you might have and debunk a myth or two. Essentially, bring some context back to the conversation that may compliment the average CF Developer out there as I know it's somewhat confusing as to how all the Microsoft pieces fit and whether or not they are relevant. Given that Coldfusion 8, is going to have native .NET support (http://ray.camdenfamily.com/index.cfm/2006/10/24/ColdFusion-Net-Integration ) (cfObject type=.NET is freakin sexy), this could also be an advantage to folks who have to play with both .NET and JAVA daily. (So bring an open mind). I promise, it's not a sales pitch, but a show tell - that doesn't involve mapping technology or flicker - that i'll promise ;) Let me know if you're keen (either here or offline, if you fear being labled a MS Fanboi) and I'll organise some of the MS HQ's (free beer + pizza) and see if i can bust open the schwag basement and get some give-aways in the room. It's likely to happen various times in the next two months (Sydney + BNE in March, and will see if I can find an excuse to be in Melbourne around then, but won't be in Perth until June - unless I can find another excuse before hand). I'll also ping some of the other of the MS Team to come along aswell. It's just an idea at this point, so let me know (seriously) if folks would be keen. (scbarnes at microsoft.com) -- Regards, Scott Barnes Developer Evangelist, Microsoft. -- --- Andrew Muller http://www.webqem.com --~--~-~--~~~---~--~~ You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups cfaussie group. To post to this group, send email to cfaussie@googlegroups.com To unsubscribe from this group, send email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/cfaussie?hl=en -~--~~~~--~~--~--~---
[cfaussie] Re: Coldfusion and Micrsoft Love.
Adobe do sales pitches for there other products at CF user groups If it was simply titled how to move from CF to Dot net it would be a bit whacked even though thats probably there secret agenda lol if it's how to use there new technologies with CF I think it would (could) be a good thing for CF devs to attend. M@ On 1/25/07, Andrew Muller [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: I'm sorry Scott but how is this not a sales pitch, this is what you were hired by Microsoft to do... On 25/01/07, Scott Barnes [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Hey Kids, Since the Ted vs Barnes blog thing, I've been getting a lot of emails from CF`ers of old, who are looking to broaden their horizons somewhat. So with that in mind, I thought It may be worthwhile to float an idea past you all and see if it's got legs (since Microsoft haven't been invited to WebDU, this maybe an alternative approach). I'm thinking of doing a bit of a national tour (need to work out how I can hide that in terms of expense report(s) heh) but, I'm willing to showcase some of the new Microsoft goodness that will compliment the average Coldfusion Developer out there (so make sure its relevant to you guys and not try and turn you into hardcore ASP.NET developers overnight), while at the same time answer any questions you might have and debunk a myth or two. Essentially, bring some context back to the conversation that may compliment the average CF Developer out there as I know it's somewhat confusing as to how all the Microsoft pieces fit and whether or not they are relevant. Given that Coldfusion 8, is going to have native .NET support ( http://ray.camdenfamily.com/index.cfm/2006/10/24/ColdFusion-Net-Integration ) (cfObject type=.NET is freakin sexy), this could also be an advantage to folks who have to play with both .NET and JAVA daily. (So bring an open mind). I promise, it's not a sales pitch, but a show tell - that doesn't involve mapping technology or flicker - that i'll promise ;) Let me know if you're keen (either here or offline, if you fear being labled a MS Fanboi) and I'll organise some of the MS HQ's (free beer + pizza) and see if i can bust open the schwag basement and get some give-aways in the room. It's likely to happen various times in the next two months (Sydney + BNE in March, and will see if I can find an excuse to be in Melbourne around then, but won't be in Perth until June - unless I can find another excuse before hand). I'll also ping some of the other of the MS Team to come along aswell. It's just an idea at this point, so let me know (seriously) if folks would be keen. (scbarnes at microsoft.com) -- Regards, Scott Barnes Developer Evangelist, Microsoft. -- --- Andrew Muller http://www.webqem.com --~--~-~--~~~---~--~~ You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups cfaussie group. To post to this group, send email to cfaussie@googlegroups.com To unsubscribe from this group, send email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/cfaussie?hl=en -~--~~~~--~~--~--~---
[cfaussie] Re: Coldfusion and Micrsoft Love.
Think the Matt was meant to be Scott (just incase anyone was confused) On 1/25/07, Dale Fraser [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Matt, If you do something at the VIC UG I'll come, always interested in looking at new technologies. Regards Dale Fraser -- *From:* cfaussie@googlegroups.com [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] *On Behalf Of *M@ Bourke *Sent:* Thursday, 25 January 2007 8:52 PM *To:* cfaussie@googlegroups.com *Subject:* [cfaussie] Re: Coldfusion and Micrsoft Love. Adobe do sales pitches for there other products at CF user groups If it was simply titled how to move from CF to Dot net it would be a bit whacked even though thats probably there secret agenda lol if it's how to use there new technologies with CF I think it would (could) be a good thing for CF devs to attend. M@ On 1/25/07, *Andrew Muller* [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: I'm sorry Scott but how is this not a sales pitch, this is what you were hired by Microsoft to do... On 25/01/07, Scott Barnes [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Hey Kids, Since the Ted vs Barnes blog thing, I've been getting a lot of emails from CF`ers of old, who are looking to broaden their horizons somewhat. So with that in mind, I thought It may be worthwhile to float an idea past you all and see if it's got legs (since Microsoft haven't been invited to WebDU, this maybe an alternative approach). I'm thinking of doing a bit of a national tour (need to work out how I can hide that in terms of expense report(s) heh) but, I'm willing to showcase some of the new Microsoft goodness that will compliment the average Coldfusion Developer out there (so make sure its relevant to you guys and not try and turn you into hardcore ASP.NET developers overnight), while at the same time answer any questions you might have and debunk a myth or two. Essentially, bring some context back to the conversation that may compliment the average CF Developer out there as I know it's somewhat confusing as to how all the Microsoft pieces fit and whether or not they are relevant. Given that Coldfusion 8, is going to have native .NET support ( http://ray.camdenfamily.com/index.cfm/2006/10/24/ColdFusion-Net-Integration ) (cfObject type=.NET is freakin sexy), this could also be an advantage to folks who have to play with both .NET and JAVA daily. (So bring an open mind). I promise, it's not a sales pitch, but a show tell - that doesn't involve mapping technology or flicker - that i'll promise ;) Let me know if you're keen (either here or offline, if you fear being labled a MS Fanboi) and I'll organise some of the MS HQ's (free beer + pizza) and see if i can bust open the schwag basement and get some give-aways in the room. It's likely to happen various times in the next two months (Sydney + BNE in March, and will see if I can find an excuse to be in Melbourne around then, but won't be in Perth until June - unless I can find another excuse before hand). I'll also ping some of the other of the MS Team to come along aswell. It's just an idea at this point, so let me know (seriously) if folks would be keen. (scbarnes at microsoft.com) -- Regards, Scott Barnes Developer Evangelist, Microsoft. -- --- Andrew Muller http://www.webqem.com --~--~-~--~~~---~--~~ You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups cfaussie group. To post to this group, send email to cfaussie@googlegroups.com To unsubscribe from this group, send email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/cfaussie?hl=en -~--~~~~--~~--~--~---
[cfaussie] Re: Coldfusion and Micrsoft Love.
Yeah, Regards Dale Fraser _ From: cfaussie@googlegroups.com [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of M@ Bourke Sent: Thursday, 25 January 2007 8:58 PM To: cfaussie@googlegroups.com Subject: [cfaussie] Re: Coldfusion and Micrsoft Love. Think the Matt was meant to be Scott (just incase anyone was confused) On 1/25/07, Dale Fraser [EMAIL PROTECTED] mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Matt, If you do something at the VIC UG I'll come, always interested in looking at new technologies. Regards Dale Fraser _ From: cfaussie@googlegroups.com [mailto: mailto:cfaussie@googlegroups.com [EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of M@ Bourke Sent: Thursday, 25 January 2007 8:52 PM To: cfaussie@googlegroups.com Subject: [cfaussie] Re: Coldfusion and Micrsoft Love. Adobe do sales pitches for there other products at CF user groups If it was simply titled how to move from CF to Dot net it would be a bit whacked even though thats probably there secret agenda lol if it's how to use there new technologies with CF I think it would (could) be a good thing for CF devs to attend. M@ On 1/25/07, Andrew Muller [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: I'm sorry Scott but how is this not a sales pitch, this is what you were hired by Microsoft to do... On 25/01/07, Scott Barnes [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Hey Kids, Since the Ted vs Barnes blog thing, I've been getting a lot of emails from CF`ers of old, who are looking to broaden their horizons somewhat. So with that in mind, I thought It may be worthwhile to float an idea past you all and see if it's got legs (since Microsoft haven't been invited to WebDU, this maybe an alternative approach). I'm thinking of doing a bit of a national tour (need to work out how I can hide that in terms of expense report(s) heh) but, I'm willing to showcase some of the new Microsoft goodness that will compliment the average Coldfusion Developer out there (so make sure its relevant to you guys and not try and turn you into hardcore ASP.NET developers overnight), while at the same time answer any questions you might have and debunk a myth or two. Essentially, bring some context back to the conversation that may compliment the average CF Developer out there as I know it's somewhat confusing as to how all the Microsoft pieces fit and whether or not they are relevant. Given that Coldfusion 8, is going to have native .NET support (http://ray.camdenfamily.com/index.cfm/2006/10/24/ColdFusion-Net-Integration ) (cfObject type=.NET is freakin sexy), this could also be an advantage to folks who have to play with both .NET and JAVA daily. (So bring an open mind). I promise, it's not a sales pitch, but a show tell - that doesn't involve mapping technology or flicker - that i'll promise ;) Let me know if you're keen (either here or offline, if you fear being labled a MS Fanboi) and I'll organise some of the MS HQ's (free beer + pizza) and see if i can bust open the schwag basement and get some give-aways in the room. It's likely to happen various times in the next two months (Sydney + BNE in March, and will see if I can find an excuse to be in Melbourne around then, but won't be in Perth until June - unless I can find another excuse before hand). I'll also ping some of the other of the MS Team to come along aswell. It's just an idea at this point, so let me know (seriously) if folks would be keen. (scbarnes at microsoft.com) -- Regards, Scott Barnes Developer Evangelist, Microsoft. -- --- Andrew Muller http://www.webqem.com --~--~-~--~~~---~--~~ You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups cfaussie group. To post to this group, send email to cfaussie@googlegroups.com To unsubscribe from this group, send email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/cfaussie?hl=en -~--~~~~--~~--~--~---
[cfaussie] Re: Coldfusion and Micrsoft Love.
Scott, As with Dale, always willing to look at what else it out there. If I didn't try new thing how would I have made it to play(work) with CF. Allan Browning http://www.inov8design.com.au On Jan 25, 8:05 pm, Dale Fraser [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Yeah, Regards Dale Fraser _ From: cfaussie@googlegroups.com [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of M@ Bourke Sent: Thursday, 25 January 2007 8:58 PM To: cfaussie@googlegroups.com Subject: [cfaussie] Re: Coldfusion and Micrsoft Love. Think the Matt was meant to be Scott (just incase anyone was confused) On 1/25/07, Dale Fraser [EMAIL PROTECTED] mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Matt, If you do something at the VIC UG I'll come, always interested in looking at new technologies. Regards Dale Fraser _ From: cfaussie@googlegroups.com [mailto: mailto:cfaussie@googlegroups.com [EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of M@ Bourke Sent: Thursday, 25 January 2007 8:52 PM To: cfaussie@googlegroups.com Subject: [cfaussie] Re: Coldfusion and Micrsoft Love. Adobe do sales pitches for there other products at CF user groups If it was simply titled how to move from CF to Dot net it would be a bit whacked even though thats probably there secret agenda lol if it's how to use there new technologies with CF I think it would (could) be a good thing for CF devs to attend. M@ On 1/25/07, Andrew Muller [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: I'm sorry Scott but how is this not a sales pitch, this is what you were hired by Microsoft to do... On 25/01/07, Scott Barnes [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Hey Kids, Since the Ted vs Barnes blog thing, I've been getting a lot of emails from CF`ers of old, who are looking to broaden their horizons somewhat. So with that in mind, I thought It may be worthwhile to float an idea past you all and see if it's got legs (since Microsoft haven't been invited to WebDU, this maybe an alternative approach). I'm thinking of doing a bit of a national tour (need to work out how I can hide that in terms of expense report(s) heh) but, I'm willing to showcase some of the new Microsoft goodness that will compliment the average Coldfusion Developer out there (so make sure its relevant to you guys and not try and turn you into hardcore ASP.NET developers overnight), while at the same time answer any questions you might have and debunk a myth or two. Essentially, bring some context back to the conversation that may compliment the average CF Developer out there as I know it's somewhat confusing as to how all the Microsoft pieces fit and whether or not they are relevant. Given that Coldfusion 8, is going to have native .NET support(http://ray.camdenfamily.com/index.cfm/2006/10/24/ColdFusion-Net-Integ... ) (cfObject type=.NET is freakin sexy), this could also be an advantage to folks who have to play with both .NET and JAVA daily. (So bring an open mind). I promise, it's not a sales pitch, but a show tell - that doesn't involve mapping technology or flicker - that i'll promise ;) Let me know if you're keen (either here or offline, if you fear being labled a MS Fanboi) and I'll organise some of the MS HQ's (free beer + pizza) and see if i can bust open the schwag basement and get some give-aways in the room. It's likely to happen various times in the next two months (Sydney + BNE in March, and will see if I can find an excuse to be in Melbourne around then, but won't be in Perth until June - unless I can find another excuse before hand). I'll also ping some of the other of the MS Team to come along aswell. It's just an idea at this point, so let me know (seriously) if folks would be keen. (scbarnes at microsoft.com) -- Regards, Scott Barnes Developer Evangelist, Microsoft.-- --- Andrew Mullerhttp://www.webqem.com --~--~-~--~~~---~--~~ You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups cfaussie group. To post to this group, send email to cfaussie@googlegroups.com To unsubscribe from this group, send email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/cfaussie?hl=en -~--~~~~--~~--~--~---
[cfaussie] Re: Coldfusion and Micrsoft Love.
Andrew, pft, I don't get KPI's or High Fives every time someone buys Microsoft products, my measurements are more on developer awareness. Did johnny x know that WPF exists, and has an average understanding of it Yes, congratulations, theres ya bonus. I'm over simplyfing it but basically as longs developers are aware of the technologies that are relevant to their day to day lives, the sales pitch is left to the other guys. So it's not a sales pitch, because i couldn't care one way or another if you buy into it i only care if you learn some of the things in the proposed sessions. So if you walk away going yeah, MS is not for me ...great, at least you made an informed decision! (tick in my box). If you walk away going hey, MS is rocking my boat great, at least you made an informed decision! (tick in my box). If you walk away thinking WPF can run on OSX after the proposed sessions. I get a x in my box. It's pretty simple, and a win/win. Microsoft's paying me to show you guys how to put both fingers in both barrells, they're footing the bill. So the way I see it, it's thumbs up all around, provided I don't screw up and show you guys bogus stuff. So no, it's not a sales pitch. On 1/25/07, Andrew Muller [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: I'm sorry Scott but how is this not a sales pitch, this is what you were hired by Microsoft to do... On 25/01/07, Scott Barnes [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Hey Kids, Since the Ted vs Barnes blog thing, I've been getting a lot of emails from CF`ers of old, who are looking to broaden their horizons somewhat. So with that in mind, I thought It may be worthwhile to float an idea past you all and see if it's got legs (since Microsoft haven't been invited to WebDU, this maybe an alternative approach). I'm thinking of doing a bit of a national tour (need to work out how I can hide that in terms of expense report(s) heh) but, I'm willing to showcase some of the new Microsoft goodness that will compliment the average Coldfusion Developer out there (so make sure its relevant to you guys and not try and turn you into hardcore ASP.NET developers overnight), while at the same time answer any questions you might have and debunk a myth or two. Essentially, bring some context back to the conversation that may compliment the average CF Developer out there as I know it's somewhat confusing as to how all the Microsoft pieces fit and whether or not they are relevant. Given that Coldfusion 8, is going to have native .NET support ( http://ray.camdenfamily.com/index.cfm/2006/10/24/ColdFusion-Net-Integration ) (cfObject type=.NET is freakin sexy), this could also be an advantage to folks who have to play with both .NET and JAVA daily. (So bring an open mind). I promise, it's not a sales pitch, but a show tell - that doesn't involve mapping technology or flicker - that i'll promise ;) Let me know if you're keen (either here or offline, if you fear being labled a MS Fanboi) and I'll organise some of the MS HQ's (free beer + pizza) and see if i can bust open the schwag basement and get some give-aways in the room. It's likely to happen various times in the next two months (Sydney + BNE in March, and will see if I can find an excuse to be in Melbourne around then, but won't be in Perth until June - unless I can find another excuse before hand). I'll also ping some of the other of the MS Team to come along aswell. It's just an idea at this point, so let me know (seriously) if folks would be keen. (scbarnes at microsoft.com) -- Regards, Scott Barnes Developer Evangelist, Microsoft. -- --- Andrew Muller http://www.webqem.com -- Regards, Scott Barnes http://www.mossyblog.com --~--~-~--~~~---~--~~ You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups cfaussie group. To post to this group, send email to cfaussie@googlegroups.com To unsubscribe from this group, send email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/cfaussie?hl=en -~--~~~~--~~--~--~---
[cfaussie] Re: Coldfusion and Micrsoft Love.
Ok, I'm in Sydney on Monday, so I'll sit down with MS HQ and work out the details as I've got a great response from one and all whom are interested (great work!) I'll float some dates past one and all, and you can all vote so that its convieninat for you all. I also had a chat with a dev last night about the post-session support, in that if some of you folks are keen to deep dive further into one of the technology sets, then I'm looking at doing a webcast/live meeting style boot camp approach (As I know it can be frustrating to learn a new technology anyway, and especially if most of you aren't being paid to do it - which time wise can suck). So I'll make sure that's part of the roadmap thereafter if all are happy to keep tracking down that path. So, beers + pizza + softdrink + dessert + schwag coming to a town near you ;) hehehe. On 1/25/07, Allan Browning [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Scott, As with Dale, always willing to look at what else it out there. If I didn't try new thing how would I have made it to play(work) with CF. Allan Browning http://www.inov8design.com.au On Jan 25, 8:05 pm, Dale Fraser [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Yeah, Regards Dale Fraser _ From: cfaussie@googlegroups.com [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of M@ Bourke Sent: Thursday, 25 January 2007 8:58 PM To: cfaussie@googlegroups.com Subject: [cfaussie] Re: Coldfusion and Micrsoft Love. Think the Matt was meant to be Scott (just incase anyone was confused) On 1/25/07, Dale Fraser [EMAIL PROTECTED] mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Matt, If you do something at the VIC UG I'll come, always interested in looking at new technologies. Regards Dale Fraser _ From: cfaussie@googlegroups.com [mailto: mailto: cfaussie@googlegroups.com [EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of M@ Bourke Sent: Thursday, 25 January 2007 8:52 PM To: cfaussie@googlegroups.com Subject: [cfaussie] Re: Coldfusion and Micrsoft Love. Adobe do sales pitches for there other products at CF user groups If it was simply titled how to move from CF to Dot net it would be a bit whacked even though thats probably there secret agenda lol if it's how to use there new technologies with CF I think it would (could) be a good thing for CF devs to attend. M@ On 1/25/07, Andrew Muller [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: I'm sorry Scott but how is this not a sales pitch, this is what you were hired by Microsoft to do... On 25/01/07, Scott Barnes [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Hey Kids, Since the Ted vs Barnes blog thing, I've been getting a lot of emails from CF`ers of old, who are looking to broaden their horizons somewhat. So with that in mind, I thought It may be worthwhile to float an idea past you all and see if it's got legs (since Microsoft haven't been invited to WebDU, this maybe an alternative approach). I'm thinking of doing a bit of a national tour (need to work out how I can hide that in terms of expense report(s) heh) but, I'm willing to showcase some of the new Microsoft goodness that will compliment the average Coldfusion Developer out there (so make sure its relevant to you guys and not try and turn you into hardcore ASP.NET developers overnight), while at the same time answer any questions you might have and debunk a myth or two. Essentially, bring some context back to the conversation that may compliment the average CF Developer out there as I know it's somewhat confusing as to how all the Microsoft pieces fit and whether or not they are relevant. Given that Coldfusion 8, is going to have native .NET support( http://ray.camdenfamily.com/index.cfm/2006/10/24/ColdFusion-Net-Integ... ) (cfObject type=.NET is freakin sexy), this could also be an advantage to folks who have to play with both .NET and JAVA daily. (So bring an open mind). I promise, it's not a sales pitch, but a show tell - that doesn't involve mapping technology or flicker - that i'll promise ;) Let me know if you're keen (either here or offline, if you fear being labled a MS Fanboi) and I'll organise some of the MS HQ's (free beer + pizza) and see if i can bust open the schwag basement and get some give-aways in the room. It's likely to happen various times in the next two months (Sydney + BNE in March, and will see if I can find an excuse to be in Melbourne around then, but won't be in Perth until June - unless I can find another excuse before hand). I'll also ping some of the other of the MS Team to come along aswell. It's just an idea at this point, so let me know (seriously) if folks would be keen. (scbarnes at microsoft.com) -- Regards, Scott Barnes Developer Evangelist, Microsoft.-- --- Andrew Mullerhttp://www.webqem.com -- Regards, Scott Barnes http
[cfaussie] Re: Coldfusion and Micrsoft Love.
Scott, Given your connections the MS Network and to prove your independence on this matter would it not make sense to do a joint show and tell and to get some MS development companies along and we show them what Flex and CF can do for them whilst you show the .Net stuff? presumably if there is real value in a .Net / CF partnership then it would also add value to them. Whilst some CF guys are very much in one camp it would be fair to say I have meet a great many of MS developers who strongly believe it's the only technology out there and maybe it would be good to open their eyes to the possibilities and benefits of the Adobe product set? As you say, it wouldn't be a sales pitch but a show and tell that doesn't map technologies. It would be really interesting to see hear what your team thinks of this idea. Grant On Jan 25, 11:33 pm, Allan Browning [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Scott, As with Dale, always willing to look at what else it out there. If I didn't try new thing how would I have made it to play(work) with CF. Allan Browninghttp://www.inov8design.com.au On Jan 25, 8:05 pm, Dale Fraser [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Yeah, Regards Dale Fraser _ From: cfaussie@googlegroups.com [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of M@ Bourke Sent: Thursday, 25 January 2007 8:58 PM To: cfaussie@googlegroups.com Subject: [cfaussie] Re: Coldfusion and Micrsoft Love. Think the Matt was meant to be Scott (just incase anyone was confused) On 1/25/07, Dale Fraser [EMAIL PROTECTED] mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Matt, If you do something at the VIC UG I'll come, always interested in looking at new technologies. Regards Dale Fraser _ From: cfaussie@googlegroups.com [mailto: mailto:cfaussie@googlegroups.com [EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of M@ Bourke Sent: Thursday, 25 January 2007 8:52 PM To: cfaussie@googlegroups.com Subject: [cfaussie] Re: Coldfusion and Micrsoft Love. Adobe do sales pitches for there other products at CF user groups If it was simply titled how to move from CF to Dot net it would be a bit whacked even though thats probably there secret agenda lol if it's how to use there new technologies with CF I think it would (could) be a good thing for CF devs to attend. M@ On 1/25/07, Andrew Muller [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: I'm sorry Scott but how is this not a sales pitch, this is what you were hired by Microsoft to do... On 25/01/07, Scott Barnes [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Hey Kids, Since the Ted vs Barnes blog thing, I've been getting a lot of emails from CF`ers of old, who are looking to broaden their horizons somewhat. So with that in mind, I thought It may be worthwhile to float an idea past you all and see if it's got legs (since Microsoft haven't been invited to WebDU, this maybe an alternative approach). I'm thinking of doing a bit of a national tour (need to work out how I can hide that in terms of expense report(s) heh) but, I'm willing to showcase some of the new Microsoft goodness that will compliment the average Coldfusion Developer out there (so make sure its relevant to you guys and not try and turn you into hardcore ASP.NET developers overnight), while at the same time answer any questions you might have and debunk a myth or two. Essentially, bring some context back to the conversation that may compliment the average CF Developer out there as I know it's somewhat confusing as to how all the Microsoft pieces fit and whether or not they are relevant. Given that Coldfusion 8, is going to have native .NET support(http://ray.camdenfamily.com/index.cfm/2006/10/24/ColdFusion-Net-Integ... ) (cfObject type=.NET is freakin sexy), this could also be an advantage to folks who have to play with both .NET and JAVA daily. (So bring an open mind). I promise, it's not a sales pitch, but a show tell - that doesn't involve mapping technology or flicker - that i'll promise ;) Let me know if you're keen (either here or offline, if you fear being labled a MS Fanboi) and I'll organise some of the MS HQ's (free beer + pizza) and see if i can bust open the schwag basement and get some give-aways in the room. It's likely to happen various times in the next two months (Sydney + BNE in March, and will see if I can find an excuse to be in Melbourne around then, but won't be in Perth until June - unless I can find another excuse before hand). I'll also ping some of the other of the MS Team to come along aswell. It's just an idea at this point, so let me know (seriously) if folks would be keen. (scbarnes at microsoft.com) -- Regards, Scott Barnes Developer Evangelist, Microsoft.-- --- Andrew Mullerhttp://www.webqem.com --~--~-~--~~~---~--~~ You received this message because you are subscribed
[cfaussie] Re: Coldfusion and Micrsoft Love.
Grant, Nothing would rock my boat more than to have that, but that would turn that into a WebDU :) At this point, time is something I just don't have, at best to get a session under way for just the show tell under one night, is quite a leap. If Microsoftee's wanted to get more perspective on the matter of Adobians camp (heh) then its fair to say that WebDU would be that place, and i'd rather work with the Daemon guys then against them to make this happen. I had high hopes for WebDU this year being that forum, but since the invite isn't there, I thought this at least may an alternative for folks to see the parts of the conference they would of missed. That being said, the developers within the ASP.NET ranks do play with FLASH/FLEX (Remoting) etc, so it wouldn't be a conflict of interest (sure, nothing would please the Microsoft share price if you all abandened Adobe and ran with us, but in reality - i've said this before - that just won't happen). We are still organsing TechEd 07 (Australia) so if you have any suggestions for how technologies like CF/.NET could play a role in the world of Microsoft Community, send them through as we are still organising sessions for it (The Australian version isn't a conference where you have to show off your MS decoder ring to participate, its open ended, provided its relevant to the attendee's whom attend - ie walking into a conference like that and preeching the gospel of how OSX rox vs Vista obviously would have negative effects given majority of the attendee's rely on Windows Platforms for their bread and butter - so within reason). On 1/26/07, Grant Straker [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Scott, Given your connections the MS Network and to prove your independence on this matter would it not make sense to do a joint show and tell and to get some MS development companies along and we show them what Flex and CF can do for them whilst you show the .Net stuff? presumably if there is real value in a .Net / CF partnership then it would also add value to them. Whilst some CF guys are very much in one camp it would be fair to say I have meet a great many of MS developers who strongly believe it's the only technology out there and maybe it would be good to open their eyes to the possibilities and benefits of the Adobe product set? As you say, it wouldn't be a sales pitch but a show and tell that doesn't map technologies. It would be really interesting to see hear what your team thinks of this idea. Grant On Jan 25, 11:33 pm, Allan Browning [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Scott, As with Dale, always willing to look at what else it out there. If I didn't try new thing how would I have made it to play(work) with CF. Allan Browninghttp://www.inov8design.com.au On Jan 25, 8:05 pm, Dale Fraser [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Yeah, Regards Dale Fraser _ From: cfaussie@googlegroups.com [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of M@ Bourke Sent: Thursday, 25 January 2007 8:58 PM To: cfaussie@googlegroups.com Subject: [cfaussie] Re: Coldfusion and Micrsoft Love. Think the Matt was meant to be Scott (just incase anyone was confused) On 1/25/07, Dale Fraser [EMAIL PROTECTED] mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Matt, If you do something at the VIC UG I'll come, always interested in looking at new technologies. Regards Dale Fraser _ From: cfaussie@googlegroups.com [mailto: mailto: cfaussie@googlegroups.com [EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of M@ Bourke Sent: Thursday, 25 January 2007 8:52 PM To: cfaussie@googlegroups.com Subject: [cfaussie] Re: Coldfusion and Micrsoft Love. Adobe do sales pitches for there other products at CF user groups If it was simply titled how to move from CF to Dot net it would be a bit whacked even though thats probably there secret agenda lol if it's how to use there new technologies with CF I think it would (could) be a good thing for CF devs to attend. M@ On 1/25/07, Andrew Muller [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: I'm sorry Scott but how is this not a sales pitch, this is what you were hired by Microsoft to do... On 25/01/07, Scott Barnes [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Hey Kids, Since the Ted vs Barnes blog thing, I've been getting a lot of emails from CF`ers of old, who are looking to broaden their horizons somewhat. So with that in mind, I thought It may be worthwhile to float an idea past you all and see if it's got legs (since Microsoft haven't been invited to WebDU, this maybe an alternative approach). I'm thinking of doing a bit of a national tour (need to work out how I can hide that in terms of expense report(s) heh) but, I'm willing to showcase some of the new Microsoft goodness that will compliment the average Coldfusion Developer out there (so make sure its relevant to you guys and not try and turn you into hardcore ASP.NET developers overnight
