[cfaussie] Re: programmer etiquette and writing good CF code
http://wikipedlla.com/programmer_etiquette_and_writing_good_cf_code (I thought the teacher in me was well and truly burnt to a crisp... aparently not...) hyperthetical * you're finishing off someone elses project, it's only a couple of weeks of work * that person is someone that you know/see around the traps * you know you're not the world's gift to coding but trying to follow best practices has put you in good nbsp;stead for years (and reduced the amount of obscure bugs) * the code is full of (lets say) less than optomial practices eg nbsp;- SELECT * nbsp;- reuse of the variable quot;IDquot; on the same page for diffent usages/ contexts nbsp;- hardly any use of scopes (esp URL and FORM) with lots of using isDefined() nbsp;- not a cfqueryparam to be seen. do you a) shoot them when next you meet then dance on their grave. b) make a semi formal list of what's wrong and why then bail them up to go on quot;chapter-and-versequot; about it c) make an informal comment on next meeting that it quot;had a few rough edgesquot; and leave it at that d) keep your mouth shut, your head down and keep saying to yourself quot;it's only for a short whilequot;... thoughts? --~--~-~--~~~---~--~~ You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups cfaussie group. To post to this group, send email to cfaussie@googlegroups.com To unsubscribe from this group, send email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/cfaussie?hl=en -~--~~~~--~~--~--~---
[cfaussie] Re: programmer etiquette and writing good CF code
I just wanted to point out a few things to anyone in the know. Barry is currently doing work for me, fixing up the project he is working on, and that he has talked about here. I am not the original coder on this project. A contractor was brought in for this. For a variety of reasons, the people responsible for explaining coding standards and reviewing code, seem to have done neither (again not me). The contractor was sold to us as a 'senior developer' with extensive experience. The contractor in question has, to my knowledge, never posted to this list, so no one here is likely to know him/her. The contractor in question does not do CF work anymore. (there IS a God!) I have worked previously on this project a little, after the original contractor but before Barry. Most of my time was spent equally pulling my hair out and fixing mind bogglingly stupid code. Barry was warned before he started that the code he would be working on was very bad. (clearly he thought I was exagerating!) This project was not a badly evolved and misbegotten prototype stretched beyond its life or intent. This was a built from scratch, designed, prototyped project, with screen layouts, business rules, etc, and a very healthy original development schedule. Admittedly, the original documentation was messy and not well layed out, but it was all there and there were also people to ask if anything wasn't clear. I just wanted to point these things out as I didn't want anyone to think for 1 second that I was responsible for this awful code, and I also didn't want anyone considering doing work for us (we're hiring!) to be concerned that this was the norm or even a small chunk of the type of code we have. It is a single, one off, really painfully awful piece of code amongst a sea of otherwise average code. Regards Darren On Mar 14, 12:59 pm, barry.b [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: (I thought the teacher in me was well and truly burnt to a crisp... aparently not...) hyperthetical * you're finishing off someone elses project, it's only a couple of weeks of work * that person is someone that you know/see around the traps * you know you're not the world's gift to coding but trying to follow best practices has put you in good stead for years (and reduced the amount of obscure bugs) * the code is full of (lets say) less than optomial practices eg - SELECT * - reuse of the variable ID on the same page for diffent usages/ contexts - hardly any use of scopes (esp URL and FORM) with lots of using isDefined() - not a cfqueryparam to be seen. do you a) shoot them when next you meet then dance on their grave. b) make a semi formal list of what's wrong and why then bail them up to go on chapter-and-verse about it c) make an informal comment on next meeting that it had a few rough edges and leave it at that d) keep your mouth shut, your head down and keep saying to yourself it's only for a short while... thoughts? --~--~-~--~~~---~--~~ You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups cfaussie group. To post to this group, send email to cfaussie@googlegroups.com To unsubscribe from this group, send email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/cfaussie?hl=en -~--~~~~--~~--~--~---
[cfaussie] Re: programmer etiquette and writing good CF code
On Mar 19, 1:02 pm, barry.b [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: see, that's my point - dodgy practices that slow development down, especially if you're tasked to come in later and finish the pile of rubbish. there should be no reason that people write bad** code, there's enough code out there for people to appreciate and learn from... I don't know about that. I've done lots of code reviews where the code was atrocious but the history behind the project wasn't that the developer didn't care.. more that the company didn't care. There's plenty of times people have been asked to knock up a prototype -- the equivalent of a couple of blocks of 2x4 and some big nails -- only to have that prototype wheeled into production by over eager managers. Most of us want to have the time to craft something exquisite but very often we're not given the chance to do so. This is especially a problem in the CF world where even the most mangled code manages to hang in there with some degree of functionality. Standards are great -- but when they're not followed its not always the developer at fault. Just thoughts... -- geoff http://www.daemon.com.au/ --~--~-~--~~~---~--~~ You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups cfaussie group. To post to this group, send email to cfaussie@googlegroups.com To unsubscribe from this group, send email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/cfaussie?hl=en -~--~~~~--~~--~--~---
[cfaussie] Re: programmer etiquette and writing good CF code
I agree. Its that problem were we blame the pen for the spelling mistake. This also reflects the strengths and weaknesses of coldFusion. Because its an easy language people arent learning how to write code with maintenance in mind until they actually have to maintain an app someone else knocked out in a hurry. I've done lots of code reviews where the code was atrocious but the history behind the project wasn't that the developer didn't care.. more that the company didn't care. There's plenty of times people have been asked to knock up a prototype -- the equivalent of a couple of blocks of 2x4 and some big nails -- only to have that prototype wheeled into production by over eager managers. Most of us want to have the time to craft something exquisite but very often we're not given the chance to do so. This is especially a problem in the CF world where even the most mangled code manages to hang in there with some degree of functionality. Standards are great -- but when they're not followed its not always the developer at fault. Just thoughts... -- geoff http://www.daemon.com.au/ _ It's simple! Sell your car for just $30 at CarPoint.com.au http://a.ninemsn.com.au/b.aspx?URL=http%3A%2F%2Fsecure%2Dau%2Eimrworldwide%2Ecom%2Fcgi%2Dbin%2Fa%2Fci%5F450304%2Fet%5F2%2Fcg%5F801459%2Fpi%5F1004813%2Fai%5F859641_t=762955845_r=tig_OCT07_m=EXT --~--~-~--~~~---~--~~ You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups cfaussie group. To post to this group, send email to cfaussie@googlegroups.com To unsubscribe from this group, send email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/cfaussie?hl=en -~--~~~~--~~--~--~---
[cfaussie] Re: programmer etiquette and writing good CF code
I don't agree that ColdFusion has anything to do with it. You could just as easily write shit code, in C++, Java or .NET. Regards Dale Fraser From: cfaussie@googlegroups.com [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Mark Ireland Sent: Tuesday, 25 March 2008 6:14 PM To: cfaussie@googlegroups.com Subject: [cfaussie] Re: programmer etiquette and writing good CF code I agree. Its that problem were we blame the pen for the spelling mistake. This also reflects the strengths and weaknesses of coldFusion. Because its an easy language people arent learning how to write code with maintenance in mind until they actually have to maintain an app someone else knocked out in a hurry. I've done lots of code reviews where the code was atrocious but the history behind the project wasn't that the developer didn't care.. more that the company didn't care. There's plenty of times people have been asked to knock up a prototype -- the equivalent of a couple of blocks of 2x4 and some big nails -- only to have that prototype wheeled into production by over eager managers. Most of us want to have the time to craft something exquisite but very often we're not given the chance to do so. This is especially a problem in the CF world where even the most mangled code manages to hang in there with some degree of functionality. Standards are great -- but when they're not followed its not always the developer at fault. Just thoughts... -- geoff http://www.daemon.com.au/ _ at CarPoint.com.au It's simple! Sell your car for just $30 http://a.ninemsn.com.au/b.aspx?URL=http%3A%2F%2Fsecure%2Dau%2Eimrworldwide% 2Ecom%2Fcgi%2Dbin%2Fa%2Fci%5F450304%2Fet%5F2%2Fcg%5F801459%2Fpi%5F1004813%2F ai%5F859641_t=762955845_r=tig_OCT07_m=EXT --~--~-~--~~~---~--~~ You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups cfaussie group. To post to this group, send email to cfaussie@googlegroups.com To unsubscribe from this group, send email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/cfaussie?hl=en -~--~~~~--~~--~--~---
[cfaussie] Re: programmer etiquette and writing good CF code
Nope, I agree with Geoff and Mark. You actually need reasonable technical skills to write code (even crap code) in C++, etc *and* get it to work in a public environment... I think the point is that CF is a very easy language to code in and many people writing sites using it have little or no programming skill or training. To some extent CF is its own worst enemy. Because it *is* easy to write a lot of people with strong technical skills will write it off on the basis of if it is that easy it can't be a serious. Brett B) Dale Fraser wrote: I don’t agree that ColdFusion has anything to do with it. You could just as easily write shit code, in C++, Java or .NET. Regards Dale Fraser *From:* cfaussie@googlegroups.com [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] *On Behalf Of *Mark Ireland *Sent:* Tuesday, 25 March 2008 6:14 PM *To:* cfaussie@googlegroups.com *Subject:* [cfaussie] Re: programmer etiquette and writing good CF code I agree. Its that problem were we blame the pen for the spelling mistake. This also reflects the strengths and weaknesses of coldFusion. Because its an easy language people arent learning how to write code with maintenance in mind until they actually have to maintain an app someone else knocked out in a hurry. I've done lots of code reviews where the code was atrocious but the history behind the project wasn't that the developer didn't care.. more that the company didn't care. There's plenty of times people have been asked to knock up a prototype -- the equivalent of a couple of blocks of 2x4 and some big nails -- only to have that prototype wheeled into production by over eager managers. Most of us want to have the time to craft something exquisite but very often we're not given the chance to do so. This is especially a problem in the CF world where even the most mangled code manages to hang in there with some degree of functionality. Standards are great -- but when they're not followed its not always the developer at fault. Just thoughts... -- geoff http://www.daemon.com.au/ at CarPoint.com.au It's simple! Sell your car for just $30 http://a.ninemsn.com.au/b.aspx?URL=http%3A%2F%2Fsecure%2Dau%2Eimrworldwide%2Ecom%2Fcgi%2Dbin%2Fa%2Fci%5F450304%2Fet%5F2%2Fcg%5F801459%2Fpi%5F1004813%2Fai%5F859641_t=762955845_r=tig_OCT07_m=EXT -- Brett Payne-Rhodes Eaglehawk Computing t: +61 (0)8 9371-0471 m: +61 (0)414 371 047 e: [EMAIL PROTECTED] w: http://www.yoursite.net.au --~--~-~--~~~---~--~~ You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups cfaussie group. To post to this group, send email to cfaussie@googlegroups.com To unsubscribe from this group, send email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/cfaussie?hl=en -~--~~~~--~~--~--~---
[cfaussie] Re: programmer etiquette and writing good CF code
The point is, entry level for CF is lower to actually get something done. From a standing start, compare the time it'd take someone to be able to do the round trip to a db and display the result to the browser in C++ for example? They might well get sick of it before they can do much damage. Just my thoughts... Peter Robertson On Mar 25, 6:47 pm, Dale Fraser [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: I don't agree that ColdFusion has anything to do with it. You could just as easily write shit code, in C++, Java or .NET. Regards Dale Fraser From: cfaussie@googlegroups.com [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Mark Ireland Sent: Tuesday, 25 March 2008 6:14 PM To: cfaussie@googlegroups.com Subject: [cfaussie] Re: programmer etiquette and writing good CF code I agree. Its that problem were we blame the pen for the spelling mistake. This also reflects the strengths and weaknesses of coldFusion. Because its an easy language people arent learning how to write code with maintenance in mind until they actually have to maintain an app someone else knocked out in a hurry. I've done lots of code reviews where the code was atrocious but the history behind the project wasn't that the developer didn't care.. more that the company didn't care. There's plenty of times people have been asked to knock up a prototype -- the equivalent of a couple of blocks of 2x4 and some big nails -- only to have that prototype wheeled into production by over eager managers. Most of us want to have the time to craft something exquisite but very often we're not given the chance to do so. This is especially a problem in the CF world where even the most mangled code manages to hang in there with some degree of functionality. Standards are great -- but when they're not followed its not always the developer at fault. Just thoughts... -- geoff http://www.daemon.com.au/ _ at CarPoint.com.au It's simple! Sell your car for just $30 http://a.ninemsn.com.au/b.aspx?URL=http%3A%2F%2Fsecure%2Dau%2Eimrworl... 2Ecom%2Fcgi%2Dbin%2Fa%2Fci%5F450304%2Fet%5F2%2Fcg%5F801459%2Fpi%5F1004813%2F ai%5F859641_t=762955845_r=tig_OCT07_m=EXT --~--~-~--~~~---~--~~ You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups cfaussie group. To post to this group, send email to cfaussie@googlegroups.com To unsubscribe from this group, send email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/cfaussie?hl=en -~--~~~~--~~--~--~---
[cfaussie] Re: programmer etiquette and writing good CF code
Nope, I agree with Dale. Not that Geoff did not make a very valid point, and after learning java and some methodologies and practices that we adopt. It is still very easy to mock something up quick and easy in any language, and it ends up being the be all and end all to the equation. However I will add though that TDD seems to stop this a little bit, but not enough people adopt this when approach enough. Especially in the Coldfusion world. -Original Message- From: cfaussie@googlegroups.com [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Brett Payne-Rhodes Sent: Tuesday, 25 March 2008 7:00 PM To: cfaussie@googlegroups.com Subject: [cfaussie] Re: programmer etiquette and writing good CF code Nope, I agree with Geoff and Mark. You actually need reasonable technical skills to write code (even crap code) in C++, etc *and* get it to work in a public environment... I think the point is that CF is a very easy language to code in and many people writing sites using it have little or no programming skill or training. To some extent CF is its own worst enemy. Because it *is* easy to write a lot of people with strong technical skills will write it off on the basis of if it is that easy it can't be a serious. Brett B) Dale Fraser wrote: I don't agree that ColdFusion has anything to do with it. You could just as easily write shit code, in C++, Java or .NET. Regards Dale Fraser *From:* cfaussie@googlegroups.com [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] *On Behalf Of *Mark Ireland *Sent:* Tuesday, 25 March 2008 6:14 PM *To:* cfaussie@googlegroups.com *Subject:* [cfaussie] Re: programmer etiquette and writing good CF code I agree. Its that problem were we blame the pen for the spelling mistake. This also reflects the strengths and weaknesses of coldFusion. Because its an easy language people arent learning how to write code with maintenance in mind until they actually have to maintain an app someone else knocked out in a hurry. I've done lots of code reviews where the code was atrocious but the history behind the project wasn't that the developer didn't care.. more that the company didn't care. There's plenty of times people have been asked to knock up a prototype -- the equivalent of a couple of blocks of 2x4 and some big nails -- only to have that prototype wheeled into production by over eager managers. Most of us want to have the time to craft something exquisite but very often we're not given the chance to do so. This is especially a problem in the CF world where even the most mangled code manages to hang in there with some degree of functionality. Standards are great -- but when they're not followed its not always the developer at fault. Just thoughts... -- geoff http://www.daemon.com.au/ at CarPoint.com.au It's simple! Sell your car for just $30 http://a.ninemsn.com.au/b.aspx?URL=http%3A%2F%2Fsecure%2Dau%2Eimrworldwide% 2Ecom%2Fcgi%2Dbin%2Fa%2Fci%5F450304%2Fet%5F2%2Fcg%5F801459%2Fpi%5F1004813%2F ai%5F859641_t=762955845_r=tig_OCT07_m=EXT -- Brett Payne-Rhodes Eaglehawk Computing t: +61 (0)8 9371-0471 m: +61 (0)414 371 047 e: [EMAIL PROTECTED] w: http://www.yoursite.net.au --~--~-~--~~~---~--~~ You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups cfaussie group. To post to this group, send email to cfaussie@googlegroups.com To unsubscribe from this group, send email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/cfaussie?hl=en -~--~~~~--~~--~--~---
[cfaussie] Re: programmer etiquette and writing good CF code
Hmmm, I would beg to differ The thing about JDBC drivers which Coldfusion usesm all use pooling. So the question is this, they would need to know when not to pool the query and when to pool the query. That makes me think that the language that Coldfusion is needs to be more typecast, I know you have heard me rant about that in the past. But look at this way, we can create CFC's an when in development they are typecast. In other words if we tell the cfc we want a numeric, the cfc will expect a numeric. But when we move to production and unless you have control over the CFIDE/ADMINISTRATOR you may find that everything is passed as any for performance. Why bother, whe give the left hand one thing and then the right hand another. This is no differento the JDBC drivers for the database. Why should Coldfusion be smart and be definitive when it comes ot pooling, and why it doesn't just do it. I guess we live in a world of backwards compatability, but how is allowing the any in a CFC in production backwards compatible? I look at the future and I talk in that manner, and small band aid solutions like cfqueryparam is as far as I am concerned a bandaid solution to a much bigger problem. My 3c :-) On 3/15/08, Zac Spitzer [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: it's like the difference between an app written using cfc's and a very old school cfm procedural app with bound sql it's re-usable, with unbound sql it isn't so eaily re-usable On Sat, Mar 15, 2008 at 5:02 PM, CyberAngel [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: No kidding Steve. I am looking at why the pooling wasn't made permanent, and had to be switched on by using cfqueryparam? -Original Message- From: cfaussie@googlegroups.com [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Steve Onnis Sent: Saturday, 15 March 2008 4:59 PM To: cfaussie@googlegroups.com Subject: [cfaussie] Re: programmer etiquette and writing good CF code Its not all about pooling. That's just one of the advantages for using it -Original Message- From: cfaussie@googlegroups.com [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of CyberAngel Sent: Saturday, 15 March 2008 4:56 PM To: cfaussie@googlegroups.com Subject: [cfaussie] Re: programmer etiquette and writing good CF code I was refering to my statement. Coldfusion should just take the query build and pool it, without the need of cfqueryparam. Like whitespace management, it should just happen, and not have an option in the admin section. -Original Message- From: cfaussie@googlegroups.com [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Zac Spitzer Sent: Saturday, 15 March 2008 4:47 PM To: cfaussie@googlegroups.com Subject: [cfaussie] Re: programmer etiquette and writing good CF code talking in terms of oracle select this,that where thisid = #thisid# and thatid =#thatid# isn't pooled select this,that where thisid = CFQUERYPARAM VALUE=##thisid## CFSQLType=CF_SQL_INTEGER and thatid =#thatid# would be pooled once for each different thatid passed in select this,that, '#user_id' user_id where thisid = CFQUERYPARAM VALUE=##thisid## CFSQLType=CF_SQL_INTEGER and thatid =#thatid# would be pooled once for each different thatid userid combination passed in On Sat, Mar 15, 2008 at 4:36 PM, Andrew Scott [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Zac, are you saying that select this,that where thisid = #thisid# and thatid =#thatid# is pooled? On 3/15/08, Zac Spitzer [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: With oracle CFQUERYPARAM creates a cursor, which is a limited resource db side, if your going to use CFQUERYPARAM with oracle it's a all or nothing situation as having one un-bound changing value in the query will create a separate cursor for each which is bad news... it gets interesting at time's tho sometimes when performance tuning, it's better to not bind... see the end of this article http://www.oracle.com/technology/oramag/oracle/08-jan/o18asktom.html On Sat, Mar 15, 2008 at 3:57 PM, CyberAngel [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: I was thinking about this the last few days. cfquery should not need to be told by cfqueryparam to do preparedstatement pooling. It does doesn't it? just depends on the db It should just happen. From: cfaussie@googlegroups.com [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Simon Haddon Sent: Saturday, 15 March 2008 1:35 PM To: cfaussie@googlegroups.com Subject: [cfaussie] Re: programmer etiquette and writing good CF code Itend to agree
[cfaussie] Re: programmer etiquette and writing good CF code
Meh. I reckon the best type of programmer is one that accepts the faults of others (and themselves) and moves on. Nothing is perfect in life and we must all accept that. I really concur with Geoff's statement as I myself have been in that position many times over the years. And I have written lots and lots of shite code based on shoddy prototypes. And not just in ColdFusion either. But in the end I've learnt a lot and moved on. I don't sit around all day bagging other peoples' code, that's for sure. Just account for the extra time in working with legacy code. Joel -Original Message- From: cfaussie@googlegroups.com [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Brett Payne-Rhodes Sent: Tuesday, 25 March 2008 7:00 PM To: cfaussie@googlegroups.com Subject: [cfaussie] Re: programmer etiquette and writing good CF code Nope, I agree with Geoff and Mark. You actually need reasonable technical skills to write code (even crap code) in C++, etc *and* get it to work in a public environment... I think the point is that CF is a very easy language to code in and many people writing sites using it have little or no programming skill or training. To some extent CF is its own worst enemy. Because it *is* easy to write a lot of people with strong technical skills will write it off on the basis of if it is that easy it can't be a serious. Brett B) Dale Fraser wrote: I don't agree that ColdFusion has anything to do with it. You could just as easily write shit code, in C++, Java or .NET. Regards Dale Fraser *From:* cfaussie@googlegroups.com [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] *On Behalf Of *Mark Ireland *Sent:* Tuesday, 25 March 2008 6:14 PM *To:* cfaussie@googlegroups.com *Subject:* [cfaussie] Re: programmer etiquette and writing good CF code I agree. Its that problem were we blame the pen for the spelling mistake. This also reflects the strengths and weaknesses of coldFusion. Because its an easy language people arent learning how to write code with maintenance in mind until they actually have to maintain an app someone else knocked out in a hurry. I've done lots of code reviews where the code was atrocious but the history behind the project wasn't that the developer didn't care.. more that the company didn't care. There's plenty of times people have been asked to knock up a prototype -- the equivalent of a couple of blocks of 2x4 and some big nails -- only to have that prototype wheeled into production by over eager managers. Most of us want to have the time to craft something exquisite but very often we're not given the chance to do so. This is especially a problem in the CF world where even the most mangled code manages to hang in there with some degree of functionality. Standards are great -- but when they're not followed its not always the developer at fault. Just thoughts... -- geoff http://www.daemon.com.au/ at CarPoint.com.au It's simple! Sell your car for just $30 http://a.ninemsn.com.au/b.aspx?URL=http%3A%2F%2Fsecure%2Dau%2Eimrworldw ide%2Ecom%2Fcgi%2Dbin%2Fa%2Fci%5F450304%2Fet%5F2%2Fcg%5F801459%2Fpi%5F10 04813%2Fai%5F859641_t=762955845_r=tig_OCT07_m=EXT -- Brett Payne-Rhodes Eaglehawk Computing t: +61 (0)8 9371-0471 m: +61 (0)414 371 047 e: [EMAIL PROTECTED] w: http://www.yoursite.net.au --~--~-~--~~~---~--~~ You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups cfaussie group. To post to this group, send email to cfaussie@googlegroups.com To unsubscribe from this group, send email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/cfaussie?hl=en -~--~~~~--~~--~--~---
[cfaussie] Re: programmer etiquette and writing good CF code
Hear Hear to that. Improvement only occurs from one first making mistakes. CARPE DIEM :) On 26/03/2008, at 9:39 AM, Joel Cass wrote: Meh. I reckon the best type of programmer is one that accepts the faults of others (and themselves) and moves on. Nothing is perfect in life and we must all accept that. I really concur with Geoff's statement as I myself have been in that position many times over the years. And I have written lots and lots of shite code based on shoddy prototypes. And not just in ColdFusion either. But in the end I've learnt a lot and moved on. I don't sit around all day bagging other peoples' code, that's for sure. Just account for the extra time in working with legacy code. Joel -Original Message- From: cfaussie@googlegroups.com [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Brett Payne-Rhodes Sent: Tuesday, 25 March 2008 7:00 PM To: cfaussie@googlegroups.com Subject: [cfaussie] Re: programmer etiquette and writing good CF code Nope, I agree with Geoff and Mark. You actually need reasonable technical skills to write code (even crap code) in C++, etc *and* get it to work in a public environment... I think the point is that CF is a very easy language to code in and many people writing sites using it have little or no programming skill or training. To some extent CF is its own worst enemy. Because it *is* easy to write a lot of people with strong technical skills will write it off on the basis of if it is that easy it can't be a serious. Brett B) Dale Fraser wrote: I don't agree that ColdFusion has anything to do with it. You could just as easily write shit code, in C++, Java or .NET. Regards Dale Fraser *From:* cfaussie@googlegroups.com [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] *On Behalf Of *Mark Ireland *Sent:* Tuesday, 25 March 2008 6:14 PM *To:* cfaussie@googlegroups.com *Subject:* [cfaussie] Re: programmer etiquette and writing good CF code I agree. Its that problem were we blame the pen for the spelling mistake. This also reflects the strengths and weaknesses of coldFusion. Because its an easy language people arent learning how to write code with maintenance in mind until they actually have to maintain an app someone else knocked out in a hurry. I've done lots of code reviews where the code was atrocious but the history behind the project wasn't that the developer didn't care.. more that the company didn't care. There's plenty of times people have been asked to knock up a prototype -- the equivalent of a couple of blocks of 2x4 and some big nails -- only to have that prototype wheeled into production by over eager managers. Most of us want to have the time to craft something exquisite but very often we're not given the chance to do so. This is especially a problem in the CF world where even the most mangled code manages to hang in there with some degree of functionality. Standards are great -- but when they're not followed its not always the developer at fault. Just thoughts... -- geoff http://www.daemon.com.au/ at CarPoint.com.au It's simple! Sell your car for just $30 http://a.ninemsn.com.au/b.aspx?URL=http%3A%2F%2Fsecure%2Dau%2Eimrworldw ide%2Ecom%2Fcgi%2Dbin%2Fa%2Fci%5F450304%2Fet%5F2%2Fcg%5F801459%2Fpi %5F10 04813%2Fai%5F859641_t=762955845_r=tig_OCT07_m=EXT -- Brett Payne-Rhodes Eaglehawk Computing t: +61 (0)8 9371-0471 m: +61 (0)414 371 047 e: [EMAIL PROTECTED] w: http://www.yoursite.net.au --~--~-~--~~~---~--~~ You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups cfaussie group. To post to this group, send email to cfaussie@googlegroups.com To unsubscribe from this group, send email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/cfaussie?hl=en -~--~~~~--~~--~--~---
[cfaussie] Re: programmer etiquette and writing good CF code
Joel, I think most of us would agree with that, even Barry. The thing is that most people do tend to get caught up in the fact that it could have been done better or that this could have been done. Coldfusion is not at fault, nor is the programmer to some degree. I was done having a smoke and thinking about this for a bit, and the thing that came to mind was when I came back up and washed my hands. We live in a society now that has a very precious commodity in water and the thing is that with some foresight on the developers back then, we may be in a different position than we are today (maybe, maybe not). Would could certainly blame them, but what good would it do. We learn from that and moved on, we built better things all the time due to this experience of the past. Developing applications is no different... But Barry, I am curious why you brought it up in the first place though. Obviously something ticked you off enough to get other people's opinions I guess:-) And my 2c worth, I have code that I have been maintaining now for 2 years. I seriously wish I had the time to refactor a lot of the older code with what I know now. As for Geoff's statements, I did state that I agreed. But it doesn't just apply to Coldfusion, it comes down to the person and what they have time to develop as Geoff stated. Andrew Scott Senior Coldfusion Developer Aegeon Pty. Ltd. www.aegeon.com.au Phone: +613 9015 8628 Mobile: 0404 998 273 -Original Message- From: cfaussie@googlegroups.com [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Joel Cass Sent: Wednesday, 26 March 2008 9:40 AM To: cfaussie@googlegroups.com Subject: [cfaussie] Re: programmer etiquette and writing good CF code Meh. I reckon the best type of programmer is one that accepts the faults of others (and themselves) and moves on. Nothing is perfect in life and we must all accept that. I really concur with Geoff's statement as I myself have been in that position many times over the years. And I have written lots and lots of shite code based on shoddy prototypes. And not just in ColdFusion either. But in the end I've learnt a lot and moved on. I don't sit around all day bagging other peoples' code, that's for sure. Just account for the extra time in working with legacy code. Joel --~--~-~--~~~---~--~~ You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups cfaussie group. To post to this group, send email to cfaussie@googlegroups.com To unsubscribe from this group, send email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/cfaussie?hl=en -~--~~~~--~~--~--~---
