Re: [Chevelle-list] Starter Bolt Torque setting

[GCP Tech]

I don't have a specific torque spec for a starter mounting bolt (but I'm in 
Canada right now on business) however you can look at the included chart and go 
by the bolt size, grade and lubricant type to find the proper torque.  Eh.

Kind regards,
Don Hoeschen

Granite City Performance
custom engineered competition components
http://www.granitecityperformance.com/

 mike f  wrote: 
I have a Small block Stroker. it has the 14" 168 tooth flexplate and I am using 
the GM starter with off-set starter bolts.  The Bolts are proper Starter bolts. 
 

What are the correct torque wrench settings?

Thanks
Mike

d1241.pdf
Description: Adobe PDF document

Re: [Chevelle-list] starter & starter wiring

[Rick Schaefer]

Excellent summary.  Hope that it stays fixed.I know all about working in
the NY rainbut I'm trying to forget.

On 11/18/07, John Nasta <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
>
> Well, the MAD/Summit wiring technique worked. I now have 10ga wire
> going from the battery to the cabin & from the cabin to the Ford
> solenoid. I also have new 4ga battery cables w/ factory ends, and the
> jumper is made of 10ga wire w/ a lug on the solenoid end and wrapped
> around the post on the BAT end.
>
> Starts like a champ.
>
> I had to leave the lock washer off of the BAT post in favor of getting
> more threads on the post. The thickness of the wire w/o a lug is a
> reason in itself for the metal plate that comes w/ the kit. I also had
> to aim the BAT cable at 9:00 to make it pass clearly under the x-man
> for it's turn back toward the firewall.
>
> The 38" Battery to solenoid cable is too short. I have to pull it
> tight to reach the firewall. I want to get something 6 inches or so
> longer for that (when it's not raining). The 40" lower cable is just
> about the right length, taking into consideration enough length to
> drop the starter and work on it, but also not sloppy and all over the
> place when it is tucked away.
>
> So, to do it yourself you need:
>
> 44" bat to solenoid cable (about $10)
> 40" sol to starter cable (about $10)
> Ford Solenoid $13.00
> About 2" of 10ga wire & lug (for jumper)
>
> and most people will probably will probably use the "S" wire from
> their current harness (which would reach the firewall location
> nicely), but to bypass the ignition circuit like I have and do it all
> w/ 10ga, you need about 4' of 10ga wire to go from the solenoid into
> the cabin, and I used one of those wires that runs from the battery to
> the heater w/ the female fuse holder on it to run from the battery to
> the cabin. Now the key has to be on and then I just short the two 10ga
> wires together to activate the solenoid.
>
> Keep in mind that if you do this you are also bypassing the neutral
> safety switch. I am doing this because my "S" lead to the starter is
> always hot when the key is in the "run" position. I have always
> assumed that this is probably due to a bad ignition switch, or maybe
> the previous owner did some funky wiring to bypass the neutral safety
> switch, because there was a B&M shifter in it when I got it. I have
> since put the shift lever back on the column where it belongs.
>
> Hopefully this is the last time I will have to take a starter out of
> this car for a long time.
>
> Thanks everybody for pointing me in the right direction w/ the wiring.
>
> John
>
>
>
>
>


-- 
Rick Schaefer
72 TPI El Camino

Re: [Chevelle-list] starter & starter wiring

[John Nasta]

Well, the MAD/Summit wiring technique worked. I now have 10ga wire  
going from the battery to the cabin & from the cabin to the Ford  
solenoid. I also have new 4ga battery cables w/ factory ends, and the  
jumper is made of 10ga wire w/ a lug on the solenoid end and wrapped  
around the post on the BAT end.


Starts like a champ.

I had to leave the lock washer off of the BAT post in favor of getting  
more threads on the post. The thickness of the wire w/o a lug is a  
reason in itself for the metal plate that comes w/ the kit. I also had  
to aim the BAT cable at 9:00 to make it pass clearly under the x-man  
for it's turn back toward the firewall.


The 38" Battery to solenoid cable is too short. I have to pull it  
tight to reach the firewall. I want to get something 6 inches or so  
longer for that (when it's not raining). The 40" lower cable is just  
about the right length, taking into consideration enough length to  
drop the starter and work on it, but also not sloppy and all over the  
place when it is tucked away.


So, to do it yourself you need:

44" bat to solenoid cable (about $10)
40" sol to starter cable (about $10)
Ford Solenoid $13.00
About 2" of 10ga wire & lug (for jumper)

and most people will probably will probably use the "S" wire from  
their current harness (which would reach the firewall location  
nicely), but to bypass the ignition circuit like I have and do it all  
w/ 10ga, you need about 4' of 10ga wire to go from the solenoid into  
the cabin, and I used one of those wires that runs from the battery to  
the heater w/ the female fuse holder on it to run from the battery to  
the cabin. Now the key has to be on and then I just short the two 10ga  
wires together to activate the solenoid.


Keep in mind that if you do this you are also bypassing the neutral  
safety switch. I am doing this because my "S" lead to the starter is  
always hot when the key is in the "run" position. I have always  
assumed that this is probably due to a bad ignition switch, or maybe  
the previous owner did some funky wiring to bypass the neutral safety  
switch, because there was a B&M shifter in it when I got it. I have  
since put the shift lever back on the column where it belongs.


Hopefully this is the last time I will have to take a starter out of  
this car for a long time.


Thanks everybody for pointing me in the right direction w/ the wiring.

John

Re: [Chevelle-list] starter & starter wiring

[John Nasta]

Thanks Rick,

I have that shim diagram saved to my HD, but I may not see wear  
patterns on a starter that is only a couple of weeks old. Also, I have  
never heard of needing shims causing it to start fine time after time  
and then one day just not turn the engine over at all.


I have all my own wiring going to the starter, so there are no fusible  
links anywhere. Up 'til now I have had 14ga wire going to the  
solenoid, so I'm changing that to 10ga. It may be that the new battery  
cables will allow more amperage to get to the starter because it seems  
like the solenoid always works. Even when I thought it was heat  
related I could hear the solenoid working but the starter motor  
doesn't turn.


My biggest problem w/ the mini-starter idea is that I live in an area  
where the car has to be moved twice a week in order not to get a  
parking ticket, so when this happens I have to fix it quickly and  
don't have time for mail order. This has to be fixed out in the street  
(NYC) and it always has to be a rainy day, so I'm usually trying to  
get it over with as quickly as possible.


I don't know of any places that can bench test a starter under load.  
Most of them just hook power to it and see if the solenoid works & if  
the bendix gear shoots out & spins w/ no load on it. I can do that  
myself. I can hear the gear hitting the flexplate, so I know all of  
that is working.


I'll also check tomorrow for a short possibly draining the battery  
since it no longer seems to be heat related, and if it doesn't turn w/  
the new wiring I'll try jumping it. Maybe it's a new problem producing  
results that are similar to the old problem, but in any case it seems  
like the solenoid is working but the starter motor is not getting  
enough juice.


John


Quoting Rick Schaefer <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>:


  John
When I bought a hi-torque starter directly  from a real rebuilder
he gave me an instruction sheet that was virtually identical to this:
http://macc.chevelles.net/starter.htm  It tells how to install shims & it
worked perfectly for me.

Are you having the starter bench checked once its removed?   Sounds
like you've replaced near everything.   Also its been a long time since I
looked at mine, but isn't there a fusible link in one of the wires down at
the solenoid


On 11/17/07, John Nasta <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:


I went out to start the El Camino today for the first time in a few
days and the starter was dead again. No heat problem this time. Just
deadness.

I bought the newer style (round) F-type solenoid. It's a bit tricky to
get it in there if you mount to where the RH cylinder head ground
straps connects to the firewall. I had to have the BAT & S wires point
straight up w/ the S terminal at 9:00, and the M wire aiming at about
7:30 to follow the shape of the bell housing. You basically have to
make sure that you're not jamming the solenoid into the distributor
cap and that you don't have any wires rubbing against the tranny
filler tube or anything hot. I have a 10ga wire going directly from
the battery into the cabin & another 10ga wire w/ a lug soldered on
the solenoid end going from the cabin to the new solenoid. I also have
a 10ga wire w/ a lug on one end that I will use to jumper the old
solenoid. On the big BAT post I just plan to wrap the wire around the
post and use a washer on top of it to hold it there. The lug is for
the smaller terminal. All connections are crimped and soldered, and
wrapped in electrical tape.

The 38" BAT cable that I bought is BARELY long enough and should
really be longer than that. Can't vouch for the fit of the lower cable
yet but I'll let you know. I couldn't finish b/c it got dark. Of
course tomorrow it's supposed to rain.

I hope it starts with this trick because this is getting ridiculous.
I'd say I've used this newest starter less than 10 times and it no
longer seems to be a heat-related problem because the car was dead
cold today. It either starts just fine or not at all and replacing the
starter always seems to fix it for a while, but those whiles are
getting shorter and shorter. The battery is only three months old.

I have a couple of shims but putting them in would be total guesswork
since I have never used them before w/ this car and the starter is
probably too new to show wear patterns on the bendix gear.

I'll let you know how it goes tomorrow.

John








--
Rick Schaefer
72 TPI El Camino

Re: [Chevelle-list] starter & starter wiring

[Rick Schaefer]

  John
When I bought a hi-torque starter directly  from a real rebuilder
he gave me an instruction sheet that was virtually identical to this:
http://macc.chevelles.net/starter.htm  It tells how to install shims & it
worked perfectly for me.

Are you having the starter bench checked once its removed?   Sounds
like you've replaced near everything.   Also its been a long time since I
looked at mine, but isn't there a fusible link in one of the wires down at
the solenoid


On 11/17/07, John Nasta <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
>
> I went out to start the El Camino today for the first time in a few
> days and the starter was dead again. No heat problem this time. Just
> deadness.
>
> I bought the newer style (round) F-type solenoid. It's a bit tricky to
> get it in there if you mount to where the RH cylinder head ground
> straps connects to the firewall. I had to have the BAT & S wires point
> straight up w/ the S terminal at 9:00, and the M wire aiming at about
> 7:30 to follow the shape of the bell housing. You basically have to
> make sure that you're not jamming the solenoid into the distributor
> cap and that you don't have any wires rubbing against the tranny
> filler tube or anything hot. I have a 10ga wire going directly from
> the battery into the cabin & another 10ga wire w/ a lug soldered on
> the solenoid end going from the cabin to the new solenoid. I also have
> a 10ga wire w/ a lug on one end that I will use to jumper the old
> solenoid. On the big BAT post I just plan to wrap the wire around the
> post and use a washer on top of it to hold it there. The lug is for
> the smaller terminal. All connections are crimped and soldered, and
> wrapped in electrical tape.
>
> The 38" BAT cable that I bought is BARELY long enough and should
> really be longer than that. Can't vouch for the fit of the lower cable
> yet but I'll let you know. I couldn't finish b/c it got dark. Of
> course tomorrow it's supposed to rain.
>
> I hope it starts with this trick because this is getting ridiculous.
> I'd say I've used this newest starter less than 10 times and it no
> longer seems to be a heat-related problem because the car was dead
> cold today. It either starts just fine or not at all and replacing the
> starter always seems to fix it for a while, but those whiles are
> getting shorter and shorter. The battery is only three months old.
>
> I have a couple of shims but putting them in would be total guesswork
> since I have never used them before w/ this car and the starter is
> probably too new to show wear patterns on the bendix gear.
>
> I'll let you know how it goes tomorrow.
>
> John
>
>
>
>
>


-- 
Rick Schaefer
72 TPI El Camino

Re: [Chevelle-list] starter & starter wiring

[John Nasta]

I went out to start the El Camino today for the first time in a few  
days and the starter was dead again. No heat problem this time. Just  
deadness.


I bought the newer style (round) F-type solenoid. It's a bit tricky to  
get it in there if you mount to where the RH cylinder head ground  
straps connects to the firewall. I had to have the BAT & S wires point  
straight up w/ the S terminal at 9:00, and the M wire aiming at about  
7:30 to follow the shape of the bell housing. You basically have to  
make sure that you're not jamming the solenoid into the distributor  
cap and that you don't have any wires rubbing against the tranny  
filler tube or anything hot. I have a 10ga wire going directly from  
the battery into the cabin & another 10ga wire w/ a lug soldered on  
the solenoid end going from the cabin to the new solenoid. I also have  
a 10ga wire w/ a lug on one end that I will use to jumper the old  
solenoid. On the big BAT post I just plan to wrap the wire around the  
post and use a washer on top of it to hold it there. The lug is for  
the smaller terminal. All connections are crimped and soldered, and  
wrapped in electrical tape.


The 38" BAT cable that I bought is BARELY long enough and should  
really be longer than that. Can't vouch for the fit of the lower cable  
yet but I'll let you know. I couldn't finish b/c it got dark. Of  
course tomorrow it's supposed to rain.


I hope it starts with this trick because this is getting ridiculous.  
I'd say I've used this newest starter less than 10 times and it no  
longer seems to be a heat-related problem because the car was dead  
cold today. It either starts just fine or not at all and replacing the  
starter always seems to fix it for a while, but those whiles are  
getting shorter and shorter. The battery is only three months old.


I have a couple of shims but putting them in would be total guesswork  
since I have never used them before w/ this car and the starter is  
probably too new to show wear patterns on the bendix gear.


I'll let you know how it goes tomorrow.

John

Re: [Chevelle-list] starter & starter wiring

[Herb Lumpp]

If you don't have a 3/8 drill bit, you should probably get one for this
project and future projects as well.  

If you look at the upper right hand corner in the picture on this link,
you'll see the jumper.  It's pretty simple and I think it will be easy to
duplicate...  http://www.madelectrical.com/catalog/st-1.shtml  ...and I'm
sure it will be more durable than a wire jumper over the long haul.

Herb

-Original Message-
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
[mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of John Nasta
Sent: Thursday, November 01, 2007 6:28 PM
To: chevelle-list@chevelles.net
Subject: Re: [Chevelle-list] starter & starter wiring

Thanks Herb,

I can agree that it's better not to have solder connections down there, and
maybe the metal bracket can withstand or dissipate the heat better. I need
to see if the hardware store has some convenient material to make a jumper
bracket out of, and I probably don't have a 3/8" drill bit. Otherwise I'm
going w/ 10-gauge wire. Keep in mind that Summit charges over $10 to ship
their kit, and you don't end up w/ nice neat 4 gauge cables w/ factory ends.
I just hope this works. I have always had hot start problems w/ this car.
Otherwise it's mini-starter time.

John


Quoting Herb Lumpp <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>:

> John,
>
> For the little jumper that connects the two lugs on the block mounted 
> starter, instead of using a piece of heavy wire, get a small piece of 
> steel and drill the necessary holes and trim/cut/file the piece to the 
> desired shape.  The MAD kit includes a piece like I described for this 
> purpose but of course with a little effort you can make your own.
>
> Herb

Re: [Chevelle-list] starter & starter wiring

[John Nasta]

Thanks Herb,

I can agree that it's better not to have solder connections down  
there, and maybe the metal bracket can withstand or dissipate the heat  
better. I need to see if the hardware store has some convenient  
material to make a jumper bracket out of, and I probably don't have a  
3/8" drill bit. Otherwise I'm going w/ 10-gauge wire. Keep in mind  
that Summit charges over $10 to ship their kit, and you don't end up  
w/ nice neat 4 gauge cables w/ factory ends. I just hope this works. I  
have always had hot start problems w/ this car. Otherwise it's  
mini-starter time.


John


Quoting Herb Lumpp <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>:


John,

For the little jumper that connects the two lugs on the block mounted
starter, instead of using a piece of heavy wire, get a small piece of steel
and drill the necessary holes and trim/cut/file the piece to the desired
shape.  The MAD kit includes a piece like I described for this purpose but
of course with a little effort you can make your own.

Herb

Re: [Chevelle-list] starter & starter wiring

[Herb Lumpp]

John,

For the little jumper that connects the two lugs on the block mounted
starter, instead of using a piece of heavy wire, get a small piece of steel
and drill the necessary holes and trim/cut/file the piece to the desired
shape.  The MAD kit includes a piece like I described for this purpose but
of course with a little effort you can make your own.

Herb 

-Original Message-
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
[mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of John Nasta
Sent: Thursday, November 01, 2007 2:29 PM
To: chevelle-list@chevelles.net
Subject: Re: [Chevelle-list] starter & starter wiring

I just checked a couple of local stores and it seems that if you want to
make your own "kit" for the Summit/MAD type Ford solenoid wiring you will
need:

Battery to solenoid & solenoid to starter cables, about $8 - $10 each for 4
gauge cable w/ factory ends. I happened to have a brand new 38"  
cable that looks like it will just about make it from the battery to the
firewall. I bought a 40" cable to go from the starter to the solenoid b/c
I'm not sure how it will work out w/ the routing. I'll let you all know if
these lengths work out ok.

Ford V8 (LTD) solenoid - $15 to $16. Seems like it could easily mount on the
same firewall bolt as the ground strap to the pass-side head bolts to.

14 gauge and 12 (heck, make it 10) gauge wires: about $4 for a small spool
of each. However, w/ the solenoid on the firewall there's no reason why your
original small wire(s) would not reach the solenoid directly, so you don't
really need the 14 gauge wire, you just need the jumper wire, which should
be the beefiest that you can get on there.

Some lugs for your jumper wire, which should be soldered on.

So, you could end up spending up to $45 to get all the parts locally if you
need absolutely everything, but if you don't need the bat to sol cable and
the "S" wire, that knocks about $15 off of it.

The MAD/Summit kit is actually a good deal for the price, except that you
end up re-using your original battery cable (which is longer than you need
for this application), and you end up making your own sol to starter cable
instead of having a nice 4-gauge factory-made cable.

I'm going the home-made route since all I needed was the solenoid and the
new solenoid to starter cable.

I probably won't get to actually do this today but I'll let you all know how
it goes.

JN

Re: [Chevelle-list] starter & starter wiring

[John Nasta]

One quickly realizes that by the time you have lugs big enough to fit  
your 10 or 12 gauge wire, they are long enough to touch each other, so  
your wire has to be a bit of a loop (which you can aim downward away  
from the heat). Also, you need a pretty big lug to get over the BAT  
terminal. I may have to just worry about the right size lug for the  
wire and cut the terminal end to get it to fit on the BAT terminal.


These may be more reasons for the metal jumper bracket. I'll have to  
see what my options are for bracket material at the hardware store.

Re: [Chevelle-list] starter & starter wiring

[John Nasta]

I just checked a couple of local stores and it seems that if you want  
to make your own "kit" for the Summit/MAD type Ford solenoid wiring  
you will need:


Battery to solenoid & solenoid to starter cables, about $8 - $10 each  
for 4 gauge cable w/ factory ends. I happened to have a brand new 38"  
cable that looks like it will just about make it from the battery to  
the firewall. I bought a 40" cable to go from the starter to the  
solenoid b/c I'm not sure how it will work out w/ the routing. I'll  
let you all know if these lengths work out ok.


Ford V8 (LTD) solenoid - $15 to $16. Seems like it could easily mount  
on the same firewall bolt as the ground strap to the pass-side head  
bolts to.


14 gauge and 12 (heck, make it 10) gauge wires: about $4 for a small  
spool of each. However, w/ the solenoid on the firewall there's no  
reason why your original small wire(s) would not reach the solenoid  
directly, so you don't really need the 14 gauge wire, you just need  
the jumper wire, which should be the beefiest that you can get on there.


Some lugs for your jumper wire, which should be soldered on.

So, you could end up spending up to $45 to get all the parts locally  
if you need absolutely everything, but if you don't need the bat to  
sol cable and the "S" wire, that knocks about $15 off of it.


The MAD/Summit kit is actually a good deal for the price, except that  
you end up re-using your original battery cable (which is longer than  
you need for this application), and you end up making your own sol to  
starter cable instead of having a nice 4-gauge factory-made cable.


I'm going the home-made route since all I needed was the solenoid and  
the new solenoid to starter cable.


I probably won't get to actually do this today but I'll let you all  
know how it goes.


JN

Re: [Chevelle-list] starter & starter wiring

[mike f]

That is exactly why I will stay off-line. No one was talking to John. I spoke 
up. Thanks Dale. 
regards

- Original Message 
From: Dale <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: The Chevelle Mailing List 
Sent: Saturday, October 27, 2007 3:11:10 PM
Subject: Re: [Chevelle-list] starter & starter wiring


Have to question this, Mike.

>> Heat, is doing some things. Thermal expansion making the bendix to
>> flexplate distance to change.

The flexplate-to-bendix distance isn't going to change do any measurable
degree because of heat, both are pretty solidly mounted fixtures.   Sounds
like the problem is energizing the starter itself, not the travel distance
required for the bendix. 

Sounds like excessive heat could be causing the problem.  Is the
battery-to-starter cable new or fairly new?  The battery cable could be
corroding inside the casing itself where it's not readily visible.  If it's
not a high torque starter that may, again may, help.  High torque starters
have the copper spacer on the solenoid to field post on the starter front;
these starters were used on most big blocks.

Herb's idea is one that solved the same problems I was having with the
starter just getting heat soaked from the headers after driving for awhile
at highway speeds.  I solved mine with a kit from Summit, essentially the
same thing as the MAD kit.  One could make their own 'kit' with a simple
Ford solenoid and some wiring.  Toughest part to 'make' would be the
connector required on the starter.




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Virus Database (VPS): 071027-0, 10/27/2007
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Re: [Chevelle-list] starter & starter wiring

[John Nasta]

One more thing about the Summit/MAD way. You can get a fatter wire  
between BAT & S than the OEM wire to S, especially if you have the  
right lugs. A fatter wire over a shorter distance would not be as  
susceptible to heat. The MAD kit comes w/ a metal plate to bridge the  
two posts. The summit kit says to use 12 gauge wire. IIRC OEM is 16  
and what I have on my car is 14 because it was the fattest that I  
could get to stay on there w/o a lug. I'd imagine that making that  
connection shorter and beefier would actually provide better results  
in a hot start situation.


So, needless to say, I'm going to try the MAD/Summit way.

John

Re: [Chevelle-list] starter & starter wiring

[Dale]

No problem, John.  Black-and-white words don't convey inflections or
emotions attached as everyone well knows.  Like I noted, once you get past
the Off/On function, my electrical skills go downhill pretty fast. LOL.  I
know both solenoids still must be in a functioning capacity but my take on
the Ford solenoid 'solution' is to take some burden off the GM one in a hot
start situation.

I draw an analogy similar to using relays to energize headlamps, electric
fans/fuel pumps, etc. where the end item still has to be able to function
and it's a matter of how the energy gets there to make it function.  It's
all pretty much Greek to me and there are numerous solutions to the hot
start problem.

I used the Summit kit for a couple of reasons other than the hot start
problem.  One, I could 'bump' the engine over with a bumper switch by using
the connections on the remote solenoid and two, I wired the R terminal
connection to a junction block so I could disconnect it at the block instead
of on the GM solenoid whenever I needed to drop the starter; the battery
cable was easy enough to get to to take off/on when working on the starter
but the R post was tight and my running it to a junction block I could leave
it on the GM solenoid all the time and simply disconnect/connect it at the
junction block when needed.

Dale McIntosh
ChevelleCD.com
ChevelleStuff.com


-Original Message-
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
[mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of John Nasta
Sent: Sunday, October 28, 2007 10:08 AM
To: chevelle-list@chevelles.net
Subject: Re: [Chevelle-list] starter & starter wiring

Hi Dale,

Thanks for the links and please understand that I was not trying to 
criticize you. All I'm saying is that with either wiring method, the 
original solenoid still has to work. Otherwise you are just passing 
current to a switched point where the switch is dead. The Nova sites' 
method really accomplishes nothing, because all the first solenoid 
does is pass the current along as if you had it hooked up the old way. 
So, you pass 12V to the BAT and S terminals on the starter, and if 
you're lucky your starter will work as normal after that.

With the Summit/MAD way, you at least eliminate the small wire(s) at 
the starter. Those wires often get burned and they are another thing 
to deal with from under the car when changing a starter. With the 
Summit/MAD way, you jumper from the BAT terminal to the S terminal on 
the starter so that as soon as current is passed to the BAT terminal 
it also goes to the S, but w/o as much length of small-gauge wire. As 
we know, DC current doesn't travel well over long thin wires. Also 
with this method, the large battery cable from the solenoid to the 
starter is dead unless the solenoid is activated. This is kind of nice 
because if your large cable does burn, at least you don't short out 
the battery (until the next time you try to start it). Also you can 
drop the starter w/o disconnecting the positive battery-to-solenoid 
cable, which is one less thing to have to do when changing a starter.

With either method, the original solenoid still has to work though.

This statement from MAD:

> The problem occurs because the large solenoid on
> the GM starter draws 40 to 50 amps at the moment the key is turned to
> "START."   And that large amount of current must flow through a very
lengthy
> circuit, from the battery to the dash area.  Through dash wiring and
> switches, back out through the under-hood wiring, finally to the starter.

is not true. The whole point of the solenoid is that it is an 
electromagnetic switch. The switch itself draws much less current than 
the starter motor. The switch is also not electrically connected to 
the starter motor. That is why it can be serviced via a smaller wire. 
A small amount of current goes from the battery, through the ignition 
switch and the neutral safety switch to activate the electromagnet in 
the solenoid, which closes the circuit to allow the 12V that is coming 
through the big cable to get to the starter motor. "That large amount 
of current" does not travel through the dash. If it did, you would 
need a cable as fat as your battery cable passing through your dash, 
and you would need heavy duty ignition & neutral safety switches. You 
also would not need the fat cable going directly from the battery to 
the starter. The only thing that passes through the dash is the small 
amount of current that it takes to operate the solenoid (switch).

I see no benefit from the Nova sites' method. The MAD/Summit way at 
least cuts down on the length of small-gauge wire and keeps that wire 
away from the heat. It also makes the big lead to the BAT terminal 
dead unless the solenoid is activated, which can be handy.

Remember that either way, the solenoid on the starter has to work. 
Otherwise you are just passing current to an open switch. The 

Re: [Chevelle-list] starter & starter wiring

[plgchevelle65]

See, that's what makes the world go round.? Everybody is different & that's 
OK!? 58, 59, & 60 would be my bottem three with the 58, being in my opinion the 
ugliest.? Even though I've seen some nicely done in all three years & do admire 
them.? I don't even want to hear about the 52-54's.? I'm sure there are some 
lovers out there also.? I guess it just depends on what you remember as a kid.? 
This KID is 59.? ???  


Phil G. 65 SS


-Original Message-
From: Rich Pruett <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: The Chevelle Mailing List 
Sent: Sat, 27 Oct 2007 4:30 pm
Subject: Re: [Chevelle-list] starter & starter wiring



To me, the three prettiest years running for Chevy was '58, '59 and '60. 

?

-- Original message -- 
From: John Nasta <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> 

> Yeah, I wish he still had it. I saw a white '59 coupe in Marin County 
> CA about a year ago under a carport with enough dust & dirt on it to 
> be obvious that it hasn't been driven in years. I was so tempted to 
> knock on their door and ask about it... 
> 
> 
> Quoting Rich Pruett : 
> 
> > I'll take that '59 off your dad's hands! 
> > 
> 
> 
> 



Email and AIM finally together. You've gotta check out free AOL Mail! - 
http://mail.aol.com

Re: [Chevelle-list] starter & starter wiring

[John Nasta]

Hi Dale,

Thanks for the links and please understand that I was not trying to  
criticize you. All I'm saying is that with either wiring method, the  
original solenoid still has to work. Otherwise you are just passing  
current to a switched point where the switch is dead. The Nova sites'  
method really accomplishes nothing, because all the first solenoid  
does is pass the current along as if you had it hooked up the old way.  
So, you pass 12V to the BAT and S terminals on the starter, and if  
you're lucky your starter will work as normal after that.


With the Summit/MAD way, you at least eliminate the small wire(s) at  
the starter. Those wires often get burned and they are another thing  
to deal with from under the car when changing a starter. With the  
Summit/MAD way, you jumper from the BAT terminal to the S terminal on  
the starter so that as soon as current is passed to the BAT terminal  
it also goes to the S, but w/o as much length of small-gauge wire. As  
we know, DC current doesn't travel well over long thin wires. Also  
with this method, the large battery cable from the solenoid to the  
starter is dead unless the solenoid is activated. This is kind of nice  
because if your large cable does burn, at least you don't short out  
the battery (until the next time you try to start it). Also you can  
drop the starter w/o disconnecting the positive battery-to-solenoid  
cable, which is one less thing to have to do when changing a starter.


With either method, the original solenoid still has to work though.

This statement from MAD:


The problem occurs because the large solenoid on
the GM starter draws 40 to 50 amps at the moment the key is turned to
"START."   And that large amount of current must flow through a very lengthy
circuit, from the battery to the dash area.  Through dash wiring and
switches, back out through the under-hood wiring, finally to the starter.


is not true. The whole point of the solenoid is that it is an  
electromagnetic switch. The switch itself draws much less current than  
the starter motor. The switch is also not electrically connected to  
the starter motor. That is why it can be serviced via a smaller wire.  
A small amount of current goes from the battery, through the ignition  
switch and the neutral safety switch to activate the electromagnet in  
the solenoid, which closes the circuit to allow the 12V that is coming  
through the big cable to get to the starter motor. "That large amount  
of current" does not travel through the dash. If it did, you would  
need a cable as fat as your battery cable passing through your dash,  
and you would need heavy duty ignition & neutral safety switches. You  
also would not need the fat cable going directly from the battery to  
the starter. The only thing that passes through the dash is the small  
amount of current that it takes to operate the solenoid (switch).


I see no benefit from the Nova sites' method. The MAD/Summit way at  
least cuts down on the length of small-gauge wire and keeps that wire  
away from the heat. It also makes the big lead to the BAT terminal  
dead unless the solenoid is activated, which can be handy.


Remember that either way, the solenoid on the starter has to work.  
Otherwise you are just passing current to an open switch. The MAD kit  
comes w/ a small plate to jumper the BAT & S terminals, which may  
conduct more amperage or be less susceptible to heat than wire. There  
is a limit to what size wire you can get to fit on those small  
terminals.


HTH,
John

Re: [Chevelle-list] starter & starter wiring

[John Nasta]

Thanks Bill,

I will order a heat shield for now and will probably eventually switch  
to a mini-starter. I need to see if my block is drilled for the  
straight bolt pattern or only the offset pattern. It seems like at  
least some of the mini-starters are only available for the straight  
pattern and my current starter is offset.


I'm not convinced that the Ford solenoid does anything except prevent  
the small wire(s) from getting burned when hooked up the Summit/MAD  
way. When hooked up as shown on the Nova sites, you still have a small  
wire going to the starter, so it doesn't even do that. Either way your  
original solenoid still has to work in order for the remote solenoid  
to work, otherwise you are just passing current to a switched point  
where the switch is dead.


John



Quoting Bill Bradley <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>:


John
I've had the same problem in the past, I installed a solenoid heat   
shield, it fixed the problem for me, may work for you too. good luck  
 and pray for good weather!

Bill

Re: [Chevelle-list] starter & starter wiring

[Bill Bradley]

John
I've had the same problem in the past, I installed a solenoid heat shield, it 
fixed the problem for me, may work for you too. good luck and pray for good 
weather!
Bill
 John Nasta <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: 
> Thanks Herb,
> 
> I think you're right. That would explain why replacing the starter  
> fixes the problem for a while.
> 
> I have a Flowmaster kit on it and I was thinking while I was poking  
> around in there yesterday that the exhaust is very close to the starter.
> 
> I'll check on that spring on Monday. Do you happen to have a part number?
> 
> The Ford solenoid does have it's advantages, but I have to move this  
> car by Monday or I'll get a ticket. No time for mail order. I'll hold  
> onto the info.
> 
> Would it help to put some kind of heat tape on the exhaust pipe?
> 
> John
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Quoting Herb Lumpp <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>:
> 
> > John,
> >
> > If you're having a hot start problem it's because the exhaust is cooking the
> > solenoid.  There are a couple of ways that I know of to fix this...
> >
> > 1. Replace the solenoid spring with a low tension spring (Chevy dealer).
> > When the solenoid gets hot it draws too many amps for the battery to
> > support.  By using a low tension spring, the hot solenoid can compress it
> > easier.
> >
> > Or,
> >
> > 2. You can convert your starter to work with a Ford solenoid.  MAD Electric
> > sells the kit...  http://www.madelectrical.com/catalog/st-1.shtml
> >
> > Have fun and good luck.
> >
> > Herb
> >
> >
> >
> > -Original Message-
> > From: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
> > [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of John Nasta
> > Sent: Saturday, October 27, 2007 11:05 AM
> > To: chevelle-list@chevelles.net
> > Subject: Re: [Chevelle-list] starter & starter wiring
> >
> > Thanks. These have been rebuilt starters. They work fine until I try to
> > start it while hot. The one in July fried when I shut it off to get gas and
> > tried to restart. The last one fried when I shut it off and then realized I
> > was not in a legal parking space and tried to restart.
> >
> > I spun the flexplate yesterday and did not see any bad teeth on it. I am not
> > using any shims. However, I have to question whether it could be a physical
> > problem like that because the thing that seems to be fatal is trying to
> > start it when hot. Also, changing the starter seems to fix the problem.
> >
> > I'm also wondering if pulling current directly off of the battery is sending
> > too much amperage to the starter. Don't know enough about electricity to
> > know if that's possible. I always thought that a thing would only draw as
> > much as it can draw, and there is no such thing as too much available
> > amperage.
> >
> > Of course this always has to be fixed when it's raining. I'll be buying
> > another starter today and I'll let you know what happens, other than me
> > getting wet.
> >
> > John
> >
> >
> > Quoting [EMAIL PROTECTED]:
> >
> >> In a message dated 10/26/2007 3:22:20 PM Central Daylight Time,
> >> [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes:
> >>
> >>
> >>> I'm having some bad luck w/ starters
> >>
> >> what brand is the starter?? I have had that happen with rebuilt ones, I
> >> switched (actually the store where I bought them "upgraded" me to a
> >> A/C after I
> >> brought about 6 of the others back) to a new A/C brand and everything
> >> was ok
> >>
> >> Harlan
> >>
> >>
> >> **
> >>  See what's new at
> >> http://www.aol.com
> >>
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> 
> 
> 
> 

--
Bill Bradley
67 Chevelle Malibu
http://autos.groups.yahoo.com/group/chevellerestoration/
71 Triumph Spitfire
82 Chevy C-10

Re: [Chevelle-list] starter & starter wiring

[Herb Lumpp]

Hi John,

Sorry, but no joy on the spring part number.  I thought I had it written
down somewhere but it appears to have disappeared.  I'm pretty sure this
subject has been covered over the years so I would bet you could search the
archives for the part number.

Herb
 

-Original Message-
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
[mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of John Nasta
Sent: Saturday, October 27, 2007 11:52 AM
To: chevelle-list@chevelles.net
Subject: Re: [Chevelle-list] starter & starter wiring

Thanks Herb,

I think you're right. That would explain why replacing the starter fixes the
problem for a while.

I have a Flowmaster kit on it and I was thinking while I was poking around
in there yesterday that the exhaust is very close to the starter.

I'll check on that spring on Monday. Do you happen to have a part number?

The Ford solenoid does have it's advantages, but I have to move this car by
Monday or I'll get a ticket. No time for mail order. I'll hold onto the
info.

Would it help to put some kind of heat tape on the exhaust pipe?

John




Quoting Herb Lumpp <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>:

> John,
>
> If you're having a hot start problem it's because the exhaust is 
> cooking the solenoid.  There are a couple of ways that I know of to fix
this...
>
> 1. Replace the solenoid spring with a low tension spring (Chevy dealer).
> When the solenoid gets hot it draws too many amps for the battery to 
> support.  By using a low tension spring, the hot solenoid can compress 
> it easier.
>
> Or,
>
> 2. You can convert your starter to work with a Ford solenoid.  MAD 
> Electric sells the kit...  
> http://www.madelectrical.com/catalog/st-1.shtml
>
> Have fun and good luck.
>
> Herb
>
>
>
> -Original Message-
> From: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
> [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of John Nasta
> Sent: Saturday, October 27, 2007 11:05 AM
> To: chevelle-list@chevelles.net
> Subject: Re: [Chevelle-list] starter & starter wiring
>
> Thanks. These have been rebuilt starters. They work fine until I try 
> to start it while hot. The one in July fried when I shut it off to get 
> gas and tried to restart. The last one fried when I shut it off and 
> then realized I was not in a legal parking space and tried to restart.
>
> I spun the flexplate yesterday and did not see any bad teeth on it. I 
> am not using any shims. However, I have to question whether it could 
> be a physical problem like that because the thing that seems to be 
> fatal is trying to start it when hot. Also, changing the starter seems to
fix the problem.
>
> I'm also wondering if pulling current directly off of the battery is 
> sending too much amperage to the starter. Don't know enough about 
> electricity to know if that's possible. I always thought that a thing 
> would only draw as much as it can draw, and there is no such thing as 
> too much available amperage.
>
> Of course this always has to be fixed when it's raining. I'll be 
> buying another starter today and I'll let you know what happens, other 
> than me getting wet.
>
> John
>
>
> Quoting [EMAIL PROTECTED]:
>
>> In a message dated 10/26/2007 3:22:20 PM Central Daylight Time, 
>> [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes:
>>
>>
>>> I'm having some bad luck w/ starters
>>
>> what brand is the starter?? i have had that happen with rebuilt ones, 
>> i switched (actually the store where i bought them "upgraded" me to a 
>> A/C after i brought about 6 of the others back) to a new A/C brand 
>> and everything was ok
>>
>> Harlan
>>
>>
>> **
>>  See what's new at
>> http://www.aol.com
>>
>
>
>
>
>
>

Re: [Chevelle-list] starter & starter wiring

[Dale]

Didn't say I agreed with the way it's done on the Nova site, just pointing
to a reference and one way to do it.  The forum link kinda doesn't like it
either, but again they're opinions.

To quote the M.A.D. site, "The problem occurs because the large solenoid on
the GM starter draws 40 to 50 amps at the moment the key is turned to
"START."   And that large amount of current must flow through a very lengthy
circuit, from the battery to the dash area.  Through dash wiring and
switches, back out through the under-hood wiring, finally to the starter.

The START'M UP kit will reduce current flow through the lengthy circuit to
only 2 amps-then the system will work fine."

I'm sure if some research is done online, there'd be somebody that would put
it in terms even I could understand.  I'm barely beyond the Off/On concept -
LOL  But I know it's worked for some and not for others.  Some think it's
the greatest thing since sliced bread and others say it's a waste of time.

Dale McIntosh
ChevelleCD.com
ChevelleStuff.com



-Original Message-
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
[mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of John Nasta
Sent: Saturday, October 27, 2007 7:15 PM
To: chevelle-list@chevelles.net
Subject: Re: [Chevelle-list] starter & starter wiring

Unless I'm missing something, the novaresource way (same as 
stevesnovasite) seems totally bogus. The starter solenoid would still 
have to work and the new Ford solenoid just becomes an extra inline 
switch.

The Summit way shows a jumper wire from the BAT terminal on the 
starter to the S terminal. I'm still not sure how this helps if the 
solenoid on the starter is fried.









  _  

avast! Antivirus <http://www.avast.com> : Outbound message clean. 


Virus Database (VPS): 071027-0, 10/27/2007
Tested on: 10/27/2007 7:47:11 PM
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Re: [Chevelle-list] starter & starter wiring

[John Nasta]

Unless I'm missing something, the novaresource way (same as  
stevesnovasite) seems totally bogus. The starter solenoid would still  
have to work and the new Ford solenoid just becomes an extra inline  
switch.


The Summit way shows a jumper wire from the BAT terminal on the  
starter to the S terminal. I'm still not sure how this helps if the  
solenoid on the starter is fried.

Re: [Chevelle-list] starter & starter wiring

[Dale]

I found several sites http://www.novaresource.org/starter.htm,
http://www.stevesnovasite.com/forums/showthread.php?t=75288, and
http://www.oldengine.org/unfaq/solenoid.htm where users switched to the Ford
solenoid and both wired theirs essentially the same way; both are different
from the instructions in the Summit kit and I don't know about the MAD kit.

http://www.chevellestuff.com/tech/ford_solenoid.htm has diagrams for wiring
the Summit way along with a photo showing Summit's kit (item #SUM-G1750).
If you go to the Summit site and search for SUM-G1750
(http://store.summitracing.com/partdetail.asp?autofilter=1
<http://store.summitracing.com/partdetail.asp?autofilter=1?=SUM%2DG1750&N=70
0+0&autoview=sku> ?=SUM%2DG1750&N=700+0&autoview=sku might get you there),
there's a link to a .PDF instruction file.

Dale McIntosh
ChevelleCD.com
ChevelleStuff.com



-Original Message-
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
[mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of John Nasta
Sent: Saturday, October 27, 2007 3:56 PM
To: chevelle-list@chevelles.net
Subject: Re: [Chevelle-list] starter & starter wiring

Hi Dale,

Yes it seems to me that you could easily make it yourself but having a 
nice little kit with instructions is handy. Do you still have the 
instructions?

Thanks,
John


Quoting Dale <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>:

  One could make their own 'kit' with a simple
> Ford solenoid and some wiring.  Toughest part to 'make' would be the
> connector required on the starter.
>







  _  

avast! Antivirus <http://www.avast.com> : Outbound message clean. 


Virus Database (VPS): 071027-0, 10/27/2007
Tested on: 10/27/2007 6:35:47 PM
avast! - copyright (c) 1988-2007 ALWIL Software.

Re: [Chevelle-list] starter & starter wiring

[Expypate]

I don't see one for offset. My stock starter was offset, but the block had  
the other hole so the mini starter fit fine.
 
I can't imagine that they are rebuilt. Every part was perfect and even the  
mounting block was polished.
 
Pat



** See what's new at http://www.aol.com

Re: [Chevelle-list] starter & starter wiring

[John Nasta]

W/ the Ford solenoid do you have to bypass the original starter  
solenoid somehow? Seems like just adding another solenoid inline  
doesn't stop the original one from needing to be activated in order to  
pass the current.


I get the thing about the battery cable routing and all, but it seems  
like you are still connecting all of that to a switched point, so  
you'd have to bypass that switch. Otherwise the first solenoid is just  
passing current to a dead switch.


No?

Re: [Chevelle-list] starter & starter wiring

[Jim Buckingham]

You don't need a kit.  Get a ford solenoid at advanced auto and the wiring
diagram from Mad on line.  Takes about 30 mins tops.  You will need some #10
gauge wire, a piece of battery terminal wire and lugs, some terminals and a
drill to mount the solenoid.  I did this about 2 months ago.

Jim
-Original Message-
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
[mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of John Nasta
Sent: Saturday, October 27, 2007 11:52 AM
To: chevelle-list@chevelles.net
Subject: Re: [Chevelle-list] starter & starter wiring

Thanks Herb,

I think you're right. That would explain why replacing the starter  
fixes the problem for a while.

I have a Flowmaster kit on it and I was thinking while I was poking  
around in there yesterday that the exhaust is very close to the starter.

I'll check on that spring on Monday. Do you happen to have a part number?

The Ford solenoid does have it's advantages, but I have to move this  
car by Monday or I'll get a ticket. No time for mail order. I'll hold  
onto the info.

Would it help to put some kind of heat tape on the exhaust pipe?

John




Quoting Herb Lumpp <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>:

> John,
>
> If you're having a hot start problem it's because the exhaust is cooking
the
> solenoid.  There are a couple of ways that I know of to fix this...
>
> 1. Replace the solenoid spring with a low tension spring (Chevy dealer).
> When the solenoid gets hot it draws too many amps for the battery to
> support.  By using a low tension spring, the hot solenoid can compress it
> easier.
>
> Or,
>
> 2. You can convert your starter to work with a Ford solenoid.  MAD
Electric
> sells the kit...  http://www.madelectrical.com/catalog/st-1.shtml
>
> Have fun and good luck.
>
> Herb
>
>
>
> -Original Message-
> From: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
> [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of John Nasta
> Sent: Saturday, October 27, 2007 11:05 AM
> To: chevelle-list@chevelles.net
> Subject: Re: [Chevelle-list] starter & starter wiring
>
> Thanks. These have been rebuilt starters. They work fine until I try to
> start it while hot. The one in July fried when I shut it off to get gas
and
> tried to restart. The last one fried when I shut it off and then realized
I
> was not in a legal parking space and tried to restart.
>
> I spun the flexplate yesterday and did not see any bad teeth on it. I am
not
> using any shims. However, I have to question whether it could be a
physical
> problem like that because the thing that seems to be fatal is trying to
> start it when hot. Also, changing the starter seems to fix the problem.
>
> I'm also wondering if pulling current directly off of the battery is
sending
> too much amperage to the starter. Don't know enough about electricity to
> know if that's possible. I always thought that a thing would only draw as
> much as it can draw, and there is no such thing as too much available
> amperage.
>
> Of course this always has to be fixed when it's raining. I'll be buying
> another starter today and I'll let you know what happens, other than me
> getting wet.
>
> John
>
>
> Quoting [EMAIL PROTECTED]:
>
>> In a message dated 10/26/2007 3:22:20 PM Central Daylight Time,
>> [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes:
>>
>>
>>> I'm having some bad luck w/ starters
>>
>> what brand is the starter?? i have had that happen with rebuilt ones, i
>> switched (actually the store where i bought them "upgraded" me to a
>> A/C after i
>> brought about 6 of the others back) to a new A/C brand and everything
>> was ok
>>
>> Harlan
>>
>>
>> **
>>  See what's new at
>> http://www.aol.com
>>
>
>
>
>
>
>

Re: [Chevelle-list] starter & starter wiring

[Brian Knight]

That is correct, John. The main reason for checking the ground, is an older 
fire wall may have rust in the joints, thereby limiting the amount of current 
your'e attempting to pass thruogh it. I have exactly that setup on an old Chevy 
truck for nearly 10 yrs. and have yet to replace a starter or solenoid. Oh, 
carry a short peice of cable to jump from new to old solenoid and you won't 
have to physically rewire, this is especially helpful on those cold, dark, 
rainy nights! I have this setup on a mostly off road use only 4x4, and it does 
come in handy.
 
 Brian> Date: Sat, 27 Oct 2007 14:44:16 -0700> From: [EMAIL PROTECTED]> To: 
chevelle-list@chevelles.net> Subject: Re: [Chevelle-list] starter & starter 
wiring> > Hi Brian,> > Yeah, seems like you just need a short pos. battery 
cable to the new > solenoid, and another from the new solenoid to the starter. 
The small > wire(s) that you would normally hook up at the starter solenoid now 
go > to the new solenoid, and that's about it. There's probably a bolt > 
already on the firewall that I can test for ground. This is good > because it 
means that I can get everything locally.> > Only thing is, w/ this setup the 
wire between the new solenoid & the > starter is dead unless except during 
cranking, so in order to use the > starter's built-in solenoid you'd have to 
rewire it back to the old way.> > Thanks,> John> > > Quoting Brian Knight 
<[EMAIL PROTECTED]>:> > >> > John, simply run the existing cable from starter 
to the F*** > > solenoid on the fire wall, run new cable from bat. to new 
solenoid. > > I had to do this on my 406 powered truck. It works great, and if 
one > > solenoid or the other goes bad, you can run off the other until you > > 
can replace the bad. Pretty simple job, really, just make sure you > > have 
good ground to new unit on fire wall.> > > 
_
Help yourself to FREE treats served up daily at the Messenger Café. Stop by 
today.
http://www.cafemessenger.com/info/info_sweetstuff2.html?ocid=TXT_TAGLM_OctWLtagline

Re: [Chevelle-list] starter & starter wiring

[John Nasta]

Hi Brian,

Yeah, seems like you just need a short pos. battery cable to the new  
solenoid, and another from the new solenoid to the starter. The small  
wire(s) that you would normally hook up at the starter solenoid now go  
to the new solenoid, and that's about it. There's probably a bolt  
already on the firewall that I can test for ground. This is good  
because it means that I can get everything locally.


Only thing is, w/ this setup the wire between the new solenoid & the  
starter is dead unless except during cranking, so in order to use the  
starter's built-in solenoid you'd have to rewire it back to the old way.


Thanks,
John


Quoting Brian Knight <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>:



John, simply run the existing cable from starter to the F***   
solenoid on the fire wall, run new cable from bat. to new solenoid.   
I had to do this on my 406 powered truck. It works great, and if one  
 solenoid or the other goes bad, you can run off the other until you  
 can replace the bad. Pretty simple job, really, just make sure you   
have good ground to new unit on fire wall.

Re: [Chevelle-list] starter & starter wiring

[Brian Knight]

John, simply run the existing cable from starter to the F*** solenoid on the 
fire wall, run new cable from bat. to new solenoid. I had to do this on my 406 
powered truck. It works great, and if one solenoid or the other goes bad, you 
can run off the other until you can replace the bad. Pretty simple job, really, 
just make sure you have good ground to new unit on fire wall.
 
 Brian> Date: Sat, 27 Oct 2007 13:55:41 -0700> From: [EMAIL PROTECTED]> To: 
chevelle-list@chevelles.net> Subject: Re: [Chevelle-list] starter & starter 
wiring> > Hi Dale,> > Yes it seems to me that you could easily make it yourself 
but having a > nice little kit with instructions is handy. Do you still have 
the > instructions?> > Thanks,> John> > > Quoting Dale <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>:> > 
 One could make their own 'kit' with a simple> > Ford solenoid and some 
wiring. Toughest part to 'make' would be the> > connector required on the 
starter.> >> > > 
_
Help yourself to FREE treats served up daily at the Messenger Café. Stop by 
today.
http://www.cafemessenger.com/info/info_sweetstuff2.html?ocid=TXT_TAGLM_OctWLtagline

Re: [Chevelle-list] starter & starter wiring

[Dennis.McGillis]

Wow, from $58 is a heck of a deal!  They are about $200 on some sites.  I could 
not find where it says, are they new or rebuilt?
Dennis


  - Original Message - 
  From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] 
  To: chevelle-list@chevelles.net 
  Sent: Saturday, October 27, 2007 11:42 AM
  Subject: Re: [Chevelle-list] starter & starter wiring



  I just had my old Power Master mini starter give after 10 years of abuse. I 
bought a new one from these guys who came highly recommended. It works great 
and has enough power to crank over my 454 with no problem.

  http://www.db-starter-alternator.com/Items/st100

  Pat







--
  See what's new at AOL.com and Make AOL Your Homepage.

Re: [Chevelle-list] starter & starter wiring

[John Nasta]

Hi Dale,

Yes it seems to me that you could easily make it yourself but having a  
nice little kit with instructions is handy. Do you still have the  
instructions?


Thanks,
John


Quoting Dale <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>:

  One could make their own 'kit' with a simple

Ford solenoid and some wiring.  Toughest part to 'make' would be the
connector required on the starter.

Re: [Chevelle-list] starter & starter wiring

[Rich Pruett]

To me, the three prettiest years running for Chevy was '58, '59 and '60. 

-- Original message -- 
From: John Nasta <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> 

> Yeah, I wish he still had it. I saw a white '59 coupe in Marin County 
> CA about a year ago under a carport with enough dust & dirt on it to 
> be obvious that it hasn't been driven in years. I was so tempted to 
> knock on their door and ask about it... 
> 
> 
> Quoting Rich Pruett : 
> 
> > I'll take that '59 off your dad's hands! 
> > 
> 
> 
> 

Re: [Chevelle-list] starter & starter wiring

[Dale]

Have to question this, Mike.

>> Heat, is doing some things. Thermal expansion making the bendix to
>> flexplate distance to change.

The flexplate-to-bendix distance isn't going to change do any measurable
degree because of heat, both are pretty solidly mounted fixtures.  Sounds
like the problem is energizing the starter itself, not the travel distance
required for the bendix. 

Sounds like excessive heat could be causing the problem.  Is the
battery-to-starter cable new or fairly new?  The battery cable could be
corroding inside the casing itself where it's not readily visible.  If it's
not a high torque starter that may, again may, help.  High torque starters
have the copper spacer on the solenoid to field post on the starter front;
these starters were used on most big blocks.

Herb's idea is one that solved the same problems I was having with the
starter just getting heat soaked from the headers after driving for awhile
at highway speeds.  I solved mine with a kit from Summit, essentially the
same thing as the MAD kit.  One could make their own 'kit' with a simple
Ford solenoid and some wiring.  Toughest part to 'make' would be the
connector required on the starter.




  _  

avast! Antivirus  : Outbound message clean. 


Virus Database (VPS): 071027-0, 10/27/2007
Tested on: 10/27/2007 3:07:41 PM
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Re: [Chevelle-list] starter & starter wiring

[John Nasta]

Do they have one for the offset bolt pattern?


Quoting [EMAIL PROTECTED]:



I just had my old Power Master mini starter give after 10 years of  abuse. I
bought a new one from these guys who came highly recommended. It works  great
and has enough power to crank over my 454 with no problem.

_http://www.db-starter-alternator.com/Items/st100_
(http://www.db-starter-alternator.com/Items/st100)

Pat





** See what's new at http://www.aol.com

Re: [Chevelle-list] starter & starter wirin

[John Nasta]

Thanks Rick,

I saved those instructions. The new starter is in and working fine w/  
no shims. I have not been noticing any odd wear patterns on the bendix  
gears or trouble engaging the flexplate, but I'll keep an eye out for  
that if I get a starter that lasts long enough.


John


Quoting Rick Schaefer <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>:


  John
  You may have gotten an instruction sheet with the new starter, but if not,
here is an easy method for shimming it correctly.
http://macc.chevelles.net/starter.htm  Worked very well for me.


On 10/27/07, Brian Knight <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:


John, for temporary use, find a suitable size can (coffee,etc.) and trim
to fit over the starter. This will reflect the heat, it just looks bad.

 Brian

> Date: Sat, 27 Oct 2007 08:52:09 -0700
> From: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
> To: chevelle-list@chevelles.net
> Subject: Re: [Chevelle-list] starter & starter wiring
>
> Thanks Herb,
>
> I think you're right. That would explain why replacing the starter
> fixes the problem for a while.
>
> I have a Flowmaster kit on it and I was thinking while I was poking
> around in there yesterday that the exhaust is very close to the starter.
>
> I'll check on that spring on Monday. Do you happen to have a part
number?
>
> The Ford solenoid does have it's advantages, but I have to move this
> car by Monday or I'll get a ticket. No time for mail order. I'll hold
> onto the info.
>
> Would it help to put some kind of heat tape on the exhaust pipe?
>
> John
>
>
>
>
> Quoting Herb Lumpp <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>:
>
> > John,
> >
> > If you're having a hot start problem it's because the exhaust is
cooking the
> > solenoid. There are a couple of ways that I know of to fix this...
> >
> > 1. Replace the solenoid spring with a low tension spring (Chevy
dealer).
> > When the solenoid gets hot it draws too many amps for the battery to
> > support. By using a low tension spring, the hot solenoid can compress
it
> > easier.
> >
> > Or,
> >
> > 2. You can convert your starter to work with a Ford solenoid. MAD
Electric
> > sells the kit... http://www.madelectrical.com/catalog/st-1.shtml
> >
> > Have fun and good luck.
> >
> > Herb
> >
> >
> >
> > -Original Message-
> > From: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
> > [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of John Nasta
> > Sent: Saturday, October 27, 2007 11:05 AM
> > To: chevelle-list@chevelles.net
> > Subject: Re: [Chevelle-list] starter & starter wiring
> >
> > Thanks. These have been rebuilt starters. They work fine until I try
to
> > start it while hot. The one in July fried when I shut it off to get
gas and
> > tried to restart. The last one fried when I shut it off and then
realized I
> > was not in a legal parking space and tried to restart.
> >
> > I spun the flexplate yesterday and did not see any bad teeth on it. I
am not
> > using any shims. However, I have to question whether it could be a
physical
> > problem like that because the thing that seems to be fatal is trying
to
> > start it when hot. Also, changing the starter seems to fix the
problem.
> >
> > I'm also wondering if pulling current directly off of the battery is
sending
> > too much amperage to the starter. Don't know enough about electricity
to
> > know if that's possible. I always thought that a thing would only draw
as
> > much as it can draw, and there is no such thing as too much available
> > amperage.
> >
> > Of course this always has to be fixed when it's raining. I'll be
buying
> > another starter today and I'll let you know what happens, other than
me
> > getting wet.
> >
> > John
> >
> >
> > Quoting [EMAIL PROTECTED]:
> >
> >> In a message dated 10/26/2007 3:22:20 PM Central Daylight Time,
> >> [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes:
> >>
> >>
> >>> I'm having some bad luck w/ starters
> >>
> >> what brand is the starter?? i have had that happen with rebuilt ones,
i
> >> switched (actually the store where i bought them "upgraded" me to a
> >> A/C after i
> >> brought about 6 of the others back) to a new A/C brand and everything
> >> was ok
> >>
> >> Harlan
> >>
> >>
> >> **
> >> See what's new at
> >> http://www.aol.com
> >>
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
>
>
>
>


--
Peek-a-boo FREE Tricks & Treats for You! Get   
'em!<http://www.reallivemoms.com/?ocid=TXT_TAGHM&loc=us>






--
Rick Schaefer
72 TPI El Camino

Re: [Chevelle-list] starter & starter wiring

[Expypate]

 
I just had my old Power Master mini starter give after 10 years of  abuse. I 
bought a new one from these guys who came highly recommended. It works  great 
and has enough power to crank over my 454 with no problem.
 
_http://www.db-starter-alternator.com/Items/st100_ 
(http://www.db-starter-alternator.com/Items/st100) 
 
Pat





** See what's new at http://www.aol.com

Re: [Chevelle-list] starter & starter wiring

[Dennis.McGillis]

Yes, the gear reduction starters are smaller, lighter and more powerful than 
the old cast iron ones our cars came with.  Also more expensive.

Dennis


- Original Message - 
From: "John Nasta" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>

To: 
Sent: Saturday, October 27, 2007 10:54 AM
Subject: Re: [Chevelle-list] starter & starter wiring



Thanks Dennis,

Is that the same thing as a mini-starter?

I guess without a doubt I should be getting one at least for the '70 
Malibu if not the '69 EC. The '70 has headers. Hopefully it will be 
running soon. The '69 has stock x-mans but the pipes still come very 
close to the starter.


John



Quoting "Dennis.McGillis" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>:


John, I cured a hard start when hot problem on my '65 Chevelle's new
crate engine by returning the $50 rebuilt starter and upgrading to a
$200 gear reduction starter.  Hot start problems are gone.
Dennis McGillis
1965 Malibu SS-350

Re: [Chevelle-list] starter & starter wirin

[Rick Schaefer]

  John
  You may have gotten an instruction sheet with the new starter, but if not,
here is an easy method for shimming it correctly.
http://macc.chevelles.net/starter.htm  Worked very well for me.


On 10/27/07, Brian Knight <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
>
> John, for temporary use, find a suitable size can (coffee,etc.) and trim
> to fit over the starter. This will reflect the heat, it just looks bad.
>
>  Brian
>
> > Date: Sat, 27 Oct 2007 08:52:09 -0700
> > From: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
> > To: chevelle-list@chevelles.net
> > Subject: Re: [Chevelle-list] starter & starter wiring
> >
> > Thanks Herb,
> >
> > I think you're right. That would explain why replacing the starter
> > fixes the problem for a while.
> >
> > I have a Flowmaster kit on it and I was thinking while I was poking
> > around in there yesterday that the exhaust is very close to the starter.
> >
> > I'll check on that spring on Monday. Do you happen to have a part
> number?
> >
> > The Ford solenoid does have it's advantages, but I have to move this
> > car by Monday or I'll get a ticket. No time for mail order. I'll hold
> > onto the info.
> >
> > Would it help to put some kind of heat tape on the exhaust pipe?
> >
> > John
> >
> >
> >
> >
> > Quoting Herb Lumpp <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>:
> >
> > > John,
> > >
> > > If you're having a hot start problem it's because the exhaust is
> cooking the
> > > solenoid. There are a couple of ways that I know of to fix this...
> > >
> > > 1. Replace the solenoid spring with a low tension spring (Chevy
> dealer).
> > > When the solenoid gets hot it draws too many amps for the battery to
> > > support. By using a low tension spring, the hot solenoid can compress
> it
> > > easier.
> > >
> > > Or,
> > >
> > > 2. You can convert your starter to work with a Ford solenoid. MAD
> Electric
> > > sells the kit... http://www.madelectrical.com/catalog/st-1.shtml
> > >
> > > Have fun and good luck.
> > >
> > > Herb
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > > -Original Message-
> > > From: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
> > > [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of John Nasta
> > > Sent: Saturday, October 27, 2007 11:05 AM
> > > To: chevelle-list@chevelles.net
> > > Subject: Re: [Chevelle-list] starter & starter wiring
> > >
> > > Thanks. These have been rebuilt starters. They work fine until I try
> to
> > > start it while hot. The one in July fried when I shut it off to get
> gas and
> > > tried to restart. The last one fried when I shut it off and then
> realized I
> > > was not in a legal parking space and tried to restart.
> > >
> > > I spun the flexplate yesterday and did not see any bad teeth on it. I
> am not
> > > using any shims. However, I have to question whether it could be a
> physical
> > > problem like that because the thing that seems to be fatal is trying
> to
> > > start it when hot. Also, changing the starter seems to fix the
> problem.
> > >
> > > I'm also wondering if pulling current directly off of the battery is
> sending
> > > too much amperage to the starter. Don't know enough about electricity
> to
> > > know if that's possible. I always thought that a thing would only draw
> as
> > > much as it can draw, and there is no such thing as too much available
> > > amperage.
> > >
> > > Of course this always has to be fixed when it's raining. I'll be
> buying
> > > another starter today and I'll let you know what happens, other than
> me
> > > getting wet.
> > >
> > > John
> > >
> > >
> > > Quoting [EMAIL PROTECTED]:
> > >
> > >> In a message dated 10/26/2007 3:22:20 PM Central Daylight Time,
> > >> [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes:
> > >>
> > >>
> > >>> I'm having some bad luck w/ starters
> > >>
> > >> what brand is the starter?? i have had that happen with rebuilt ones,
> i
> > >> switched (actually the store where i bought them "upgraded" me to a
> > >> A/C after i
> > >> brought about 6 of the others back) to a new A/C brand and everything
> > >> was ok
> > >>
> > >> Harlan
> > >>
> > >>
> > >> **
> > >> See what's new at
> > >> http://www.aol.com
> > >>
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> >
> >
> >
> >
>
>
> --
> Peek-a-boo FREE Tricks & Treats for You! Get 
> 'em!<http://www.reallivemoms.com/?ocid=TXT_TAGHM&loc=us>
>



-- 
Rick Schaefer
72 TPI El Camino

Re: [Chevelle-list] starter & starter wiring

[John Nasta]

Yeah, I wish he still had it. I saw a white '59 coupe in Marin County  
CA about a year ago under a carport with enough dust & dirt on it to  
be obvious that it hasn't been driven in years. I was so tempted to  
knock on their door and ask about it...



Quoting Rich Pruett <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>:


I'll take that '59 off your dad's hands!

Re: [Chevelle-list] starter & starter wiring

[John Nasta]

Thanks Dennis,

Is that the same thing as a mini-starter?

I guess without a doubt I should be getting one at least for the '70  
Malibu if not the '69 EC. The '70 has headers. Hopefully it will be  
running soon. The '69 has stock x-mans but the pipes still come very  
close to the starter.


John



Quoting "Dennis.McGillis" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>:


John, I cured a hard start when hot problem on my '65 Chevelle's new
crate engine by returning the $50 rebuilt starter and upgrading to a
$200 gear reduction starter.  Hot start problems are gone.
Dennis McGillis
1965 Malibu SS-350

Re: [Chevelle-list] starter & starter wiring

[Rich Pruett]

I'll take that '59 off your dad's hands!

-- Original message -- 
From: John Nasta <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> 

> Actually, I can remember my dad making a coffee can heat shield when I 
> was a kid. We had a '59 Impala and then a '64. 
> 
> 
> Quoting Brian Knight : 
> 
> > 
> > John, for temporary use, find a suitable size can (coffee,etc.) and 
> > trim to fit over the starter. This will reflect the heat, it just 
> > looks bad. 
> > 
> > Brian 
> 
> 

Re: [Chevelle-list] starter & starter wiring

[John Nasta]

Thanks Tom,

I remember being stuck in your '70 this past Spring. Luckily it  
started after it cooled off. Mine seems to never start again, even if  
you let it sit for hours. They just seem to burn out and never work  
again.


I already bought a new (not rebuilt) starter today, but it's raining  
pretty hard and unless it lets up I'll wait 'til tomorrow to try it.


It came with a shim, oddly enough. Maybe that's because it's new.

The guy in the parts store said that the remote solenoid is the best  
way to go. It's certainly cheaper. This is one of the last mom & pop  
type stores in my neighborhood. The kind where you can say that you  
need a 3510 starter, and they don't need to ask you what year the car  
is or what engine it has to know what you're talking about.


John


Quoting Tom Rightler <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>:


2 wordsMini Starter.  You can get them for $95 off ebay.  I put one
on my 70 after dealing with it taking a crap on me up at the CanAm show
this year in the parking lot of the hotel.  Problem solved.  Don't
waste $200 buying one off Jeg's or Summit or somewhere else..ebay has
them all day long for $95

Tom Rightler
MCC Newsletter Editor


- Original Message - From: "John Nasta" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: 
Sent: Saturday, October 27, 2007 12:26 PM
Subject: Re: [Chevelle-list] starter & starter wiring


Actually, I can remember my dad making a coffee can heat shield   
when I was a kid. We had a '59 Impala and then a '64.



Quoting Brian Knight <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>:



John, for temporary use, find a suitable size can (coffee,etc.)   
and trim to fit over the starter. This will reflect the heat, it   
just   looks bad.


Brian





--
No virus found in this incoming message.
Checked by AVG Free Edition. Version: 7.5.503 / Virus Database:   
269.15.12/1096 - Release Date: 10/27/2007 11:02 AM

Re: [Chevelle-list] starter & starter wiring

[Tom Rightler]

2 wordsMini Starter.  You can get them for $95 off ebay.  I put one on 
my 70 after dealing with it taking a crap on me up at the CanAm show this 
year in the parking lot of the hotel.  Problem solved.  Don't waste $200 
buying one off Jeg's or Summit or somewhere else..ebay has them all day long 
for $95


Tom Rightler
MCC Newsletter Editor


- Original Message - 
From: "John Nasta" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>

To: 
Sent: Saturday, October 27, 2007 12:26 PM
Subject: Re: [Chevelle-list] starter & starter wiring


Actually, I can remember my dad making a coffee can heat shield when I 
was a kid. We had a '59 Impala and then a '64.



Quoting Brian Knight <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>:



John, for temporary use, find a suitable size can (coffee,etc.) and 
trim to fit over the starter. This will reflect the heat, it just   looks 
bad.


 Brian





--
No virus found in this incoming message.
Checked by AVG Free Edition. Version: 7.5.503 / Virus Database: 
269.15.12/1096 - Release Date: 10/27/2007 11:02 AM

Re: [Chevelle-list] starter & starter wiring

[Dennis.McGillis]

John, I cured a hard start when hot problem on my '65 Chevelle's new crate 
engine by returning the $50 rebuilt starter and upgrading to a $200 gear 
reduction starter.  Hot start problems are gone.

Dennis McGillis
1965 Malibu SS-350



- Original Message - 
From: "John Nasta" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>

To: 
Sent: Friday, October 26, 2007 1:20 PM
Subject: [Chevelle-list] starter & starter wiring


I'm having some bad luck w/ starters. They seem to just burn up if try
to start the engine when it's hot. I hear 1 click, and then that
starter never works again. I replaced one on July 5th and it's already
fried (and I hardly ever even drive the car).

This is a 1969 EC w/ 283/TH350 combo & stock x-mans.

I also have always had a problem where the yellow lead to the solenoid
is hot any time the key is in the run position. Because of this, I
can't hook up the starter wiring properly. Instead I have a lead
running from the battery to the cab and another going from the cab to
the solenoid. To start the engine I have to have the key on and then
short the two wires. I have always assumed that this is caused by a
bad ignition switch. The wiring harness was purchased new from M&H and
shouldn't be the problem. The battery was replaced in August '07.

Any thoughts on why I'm burning through starters so quickly or why my
solenoid wire is hot while in the run position are appreciated. I need
to get this sorted out because I have gotten stuck twice now with dead
starters.

Also, does anyone know the length of the positive battery cable? I
want to replace mine while I have the starter out.

Thanks,
John Nasta

Re: [Chevelle-list] starter & starter wiring

[John Nasta]

Actually, I can remember my dad making a coffee can heat shield when I  
was a kid. We had a '59 Impala and then a '64.



Quoting Brian Knight <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>:



John, for temporary use, find a suitable size can (coffee,etc.) and   
trim to fit over the starter. This will reflect the heat, it just   
looks bad.


 Brian

Re: [Chevelle-list] starter & starter wiring

[John Nasta]

Thanks. I'll see if the place where I'm getting the starter has  
anything. I have to at least get the car movable for now.



Quoting [EMAIL PROTECTED]:


John:
You can buy a heat shield that goes between the starter and the headers or
you can wrap the starter.
Larry

[EMAIL PROTECTED]
1965 Chevelle Malibu SS
Collector of  1965 Chevelle parts
Seller of none (got to finish the car  first)



** See what's new at http://www.aol.com

Re: [Chevelle-list] starter & starter wiring

[Z16CHEVELLEGUY]

John:
You can buy a heat shield that goes between the starter and the headers or  
you can wrap the starter. 
Larry
 
[EMAIL PROTECTED]
1965 Chevelle Malibu SS
Collector of  1965 Chevelle parts
Seller of none (got to finish the car  first)



** See what's new at http://www.aol.com

Re: [Chevelle-list] starter & starter wiring

[Brian Knight]

John, for temporary use, find a suitable size can (coffee,etc.) and trim to fit 
over the starter. This will reflect the heat, it just looks bad.
 
 Brian> Date: Sat, 27 Oct 2007 08:52:09 -0700> From: [EMAIL PROTECTED]> To: 
chevelle-list@chevelles.net> Subject: Re: [Chevelle-list] starter & starter 
wiring> > Thanks Herb,> > I think you're right. That would explain why 
replacing the starter > fixes the problem for a while.> > I have a Flowmaster 
kit on it and I was thinking while I was poking > around in there yesterday 
that the exhaust is very close to the starter.> > I'll check on that spring on 
Monday. Do you happen to have a part number?> > The Ford solenoid does have 
it's advantages, but I have to move this > car by Monday or I'll get a ticket. 
No time for mail order. I'll hold > onto the info.> > Would it help to put some 
kind of heat tape on the exhaust pipe?> > John> > > > > Quoting Herb Lumpp 
<[EMAIL PROTECTED]>:> > > John,> >> > If you're having a hot start problem it's 
because the exhaust is cooking the> > solenoid. There are a couple of ways that 
I know of to fix this...> >> > 1. Replace the solenoid spring with a low 
tension spring (Chevy dealer).> > When the solenoid gets hot it draws too many 
amps for the battery to> > support. By using a low tension spring, the hot 
solenoid can compress it> > easier.> >> > Or,> >> > 2. You can convert your 
starter to work with a Ford solenoid. MAD Electric> > sells the kit... 
http://www.madelectrical.com/catalog/st-1.shtml> >> > Have fun and good luck.> 
>> > Herb> >> >> >> > -Original Message-> > From: [EMAIL PROTECTED]> > 
[mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of John Nasta> > Sent: Saturday, October 
27, 2007 11:05 AM> > To: chevelle-list@chevelles.net> > Subject: Re: 
[Chevelle-list] starter & starter wiring> >> > Thanks. These have been rebuilt 
starters. They work fine until I try to> > start it while hot. The one in July 
fried when I shut it off to get gas and> > tried to restart. The last one fried 
when I shut it off and then realized I> > was not in a legal parking space and 
tried to restart.> >> > I spun the flexplate yesterday and did not see any bad 
teeth on it. I am not> > using any shims. However, I have to question whether 
it could be a physical> > problem like that because the thing that seems to be 
fatal is trying to> > start it when hot. Also, changing the starter seems to 
fix the problem.> >> > I'm also wondering if pulling current directly off of 
the battery is sending> > too much amperage to the starter. Don't know enough 
about electricity to> > know if that's possible. I always thought that a thing 
would only draw as> > much as it can draw, and there is no such thing as too 
much available> > amperage.> >> > Of course this always has to be fixed when 
it's raining. I'll be buying> > another starter today and I'll let you know 
what happens, other than me> > getting wet.> >> > John> >> >> > Quoting [EMAIL 
PROTECTED]:> >> >> In a message dated 10/26/2007 3:22:20 PM Central Daylight 
Time,> >> [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes:> >>> >>> >>> I'm having some bad luck w/ 
starters> >>> >> what brand is the starter?? i have had that happen with 
rebuilt ones, i> >> switched (actually the store where i bought them "upgraded" 
me to a> >> A/C after i> >> brought about 6 of the others back) to a new A/C 
brand and everything> >> was ok> >>> >> Harlan> >>> >>> >> 
**> >> See what's new at> >> 
http://www.aol.com> >>> >> >> >> >> >> >> > > > 
_
Peek-a-boo FREE Tricks & Treats for You!
http://www.reallivemoms.com?ocid=TXT_TAGHM&loc=us

Re: [Chevelle-list] starter & starter wiring

[John Nasta]

Thanks Herb,

I think you're right. That would explain why replacing the starter  
fixes the problem for a while.


I have a Flowmaster kit on it and I was thinking while I was poking  
around in there yesterday that the exhaust is very close to the starter.


I'll check on that spring on Monday. Do you happen to have a part number?

The Ford solenoid does have it's advantages, but I have to move this  
car by Monday or I'll get a ticket. No time for mail order. I'll hold  
onto the info.


Would it help to put some kind of heat tape on the exhaust pipe?

John




Quoting Herb Lumpp <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>:


John,

If you're having a hot start problem it's because the exhaust is cooking the
solenoid.  There are a couple of ways that I know of to fix this...

1. Replace the solenoid spring with a low tension spring (Chevy dealer).
When the solenoid gets hot it draws too many amps for the battery to
support.  By using a low tension spring, the hot solenoid can compress it
easier.

Or,

2. You can convert your starter to work with a Ford solenoid.  MAD Electric
sells the kit...  http://www.madelectrical.com/catalog/st-1.shtml

Have fun and good luck.

Herb



-Original Message-
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
[mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of John Nasta
Sent: Saturday, October 27, 2007 11:05 AM
To: chevelle-list@chevelles.net
Subject: Re: [Chevelle-list] starter & starter wiring

Thanks. These have been rebuilt starters. They work fine until I try to
start it while hot. The one in July fried when I shut it off to get gas and
tried to restart. The last one fried when I shut it off and then realized I
was not in a legal parking space and tried to restart.

I spun the flexplate yesterday and did not see any bad teeth on it. I am not
using any shims. However, I have to question whether it could be a physical
problem like that because the thing that seems to be fatal is trying to
start it when hot. Also, changing the starter seems to fix the problem.

I'm also wondering if pulling current directly off of the battery is sending
too much amperage to the starter. Don't know enough about electricity to
know if that's possible. I always thought that a thing would only draw as
much as it can draw, and there is no such thing as too much available
amperage.

Of course this always has to be fixed when it's raining. I'll be buying
another starter today and I'll let you know what happens, other than me
getting wet.

John


Quoting [EMAIL PROTECTED]:


In a message dated 10/26/2007 3:22:20 PM Central Daylight Time,
[EMAIL PROTECTED] writes:



I'm having some bad luck w/ starters


what brand is the starter?? i have had that happen with rebuilt ones, i
switched (actually the store where i bought them "upgraded" me to a
A/C after i
brought about 6 of the others back) to a new A/C brand and everything
was ok

Harlan


**
 See what's new at
http://www.aol.com

Re: [Chevelle-list] starter & starter wiring

[mike f]

Flexplate was a good thing to check. 

They, meaning starters pull a lot of amps. But, what I hear you say is this. 
Heat, is doing some things. Thermal expansion making the bendix to flexplate 
distance to change. And heat causes the resistance of copper to increase. 

Double check, at the part store, the battery and starter. Then check cables. 
What you must determine is the battery cable to the starter is good. Is the 
ground good too. Poor grounds in the engine bay to the battery are important. 
We, meaning our process will eventually get to the grounds between the 
engine-Frame and chassis later as we find if the voltage to the stater solenoid 
is low. That can be checked with a meter and have someone turn the key to start 
(cables disconnected) and measure.  I can explain more on that if you want. 


You have to do those things first. I know you did them already but they have to 
be done agian to be sure.


mike

- Original Message 
From: John Nasta <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: chevelle-list@chevelles.net
Sent: Saturday, October 27, 2007 10:05:24 AM
Subject: Re: [Chevelle-list] starter & starter wiring

Thanks. These have been rebuilt starters. They work fine until I try  
to start it while hot. The one in July fried when I shut it off to get   
gas and tried to restart. The last one fried when I shut it off and  
then realized I was not in a legal parking space and tried to restart.

I spun the flexplate yesterday and did not see any bad teeth on it. I  
am not using any shims. However, I have to question whether it could  
be a physical problem like that because the thing that seems to be  
fatal is trying to start it when hot. Also, changing the starter seems   
to fix the problem.

I'm also wondering if pulling current directly off of the battery is  
sending too much amperage to the starter. Don't know enough about  
electricity to know if that's possible. I always thought that a thing  
would only draw as much as it can draw, and there is no such thing as  
too much available amperage.

Of course this always has to be fixed when it's raining. I'll be  
buying another starter today and I'll let you know what happens, other   
than me getting wet.

John


Quoting [EMAIL PROTECTED]:

> In a message dated 10/26/2007 3:22:20 PM Central Daylight Time,
> [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes:
>
>
>> I'm having some bad luck w/ starters
>
> what brand is the starter?? i have had that happen with rebuilt ones, i
> switched (actually the store where i bought them "upgraded" me to a  
> A/C after i
> brought about 6 of the others back) to a new A/C brand and everything was ok
>
> Harlan
>
>
> **
>  See what's new at
> http://www.aol.com
>

__
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Tired of spam?  Yahoo! Mail has the best spam protection around 
http://mail.yahoo.com

Re: [Chevelle-list] starter & starter wiring

[Herb Lumpp]

John,

If you're having a hot start problem it's because the exhaust is cooking the
solenoid.  There are a couple of ways that I know of to fix this...

1. Replace the solenoid spring with a low tension spring (Chevy dealer).
When the solenoid gets hot it draws too many amps for the battery to
support.  By using a low tension spring, the hot solenoid can compress it
easier.

Or, 

2. You can convert your starter to work with a Ford solenoid.  MAD Electric
sells the kit...  http://www.madelectrical.com/catalog/st-1.shtml

Have fun and good luck.

Herb



-Original Message-
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
[mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of John Nasta
Sent: Saturday, October 27, 2007 11:05 AM
To: chevelle-list@chevelles.net
Subject: Re: [Chevelle-list] starter & starter wiring

Thanks. These have been rebuilt starters. They work fine until I try to
start it while hot. The one in July fried when I shut it off to get gas and
tried to restart. The last one fried when I shut it off and then realized I
was not in a legal parking space and tried to restart.

I spun the flexplate yesterday and did not see any bad teeth on it. I am not
using any shims. However, I have to question whether it could be a physical
problem like that because the thing that seems to be fatal is trying to
start it when hot. Also, changing the starter seems to fix the problem.

I'm also wondering if pulling current directly off of the battery is sending
too much amperage to the starter. Don't know enough about electricity to
know if that's possible. I always thought that a thing would only draw as
much as it can draw, and there is no such thing as too much available
amperage.

Of course this always has to be fixed when it's raining. I'll be buying
another starter today and I'll let you know what happens, other than me
getting wet.

John


Quoting [EMAIL PROTECTED]:

> In a message dated 10/26/2007 3:22:20 PM Central Daylight Time, 
> [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes:
>
>
>> I'm having some bad luck w/ starters
>
> what brand is the starter?? i have had that happen with rebuilt ones, i
> switched (actually the store where i bought them "upgraded" me to a   
> A/C after i
> brought about 6 of the others back) to a new A/C brand and everything 
> was ok
>
> Harlan
>
>
> **
>  See what's new at
> http://www.aol.com
>

Re: [Chevelle-list] starter & starter wiring

[John Nasta]

Thanks. These have been rebuilt starters. They work fine until I try  
to start it while hot. The one in July fried when I shut it off to get  
gas and tried to restart. The last one fried when I shut it off and  
then realized I was not in a legal parking space and tried to restart.


I spun the flexplate yesterday and did not see any bad teeth on it. I  
am not using any shims. However, I have to question whether it could  
be a physical problem like that because the thing that seems to be  
fatal is trying to start it when hot. Also, changing the starter seems  
to fix the problem.


I'm also wondering if pulling current directly off of the battery is  
sending too much amperage to the starter. Don't know enough about  
electricity to know if that's possible. I always thought that a thing  
would only draw as much as it can draw, and there is no such thing as  
too much available amperage.


Of course this always has to be fixed when it's raining. I'll be  
buying another starter today and I'll let you know what happens, other  
than me getting wet.


John


Quoting [EMAIL PROTECTED]:


In a message dated 10/26/2007 3:22:20 PM Central Daylight Time,
[EMAIL PROTECTED] writes:



I'm having some bad luck w/ starters


what brand is the starter?? i have had that happen with rebuilt ones, i
switched (actually the store where i bought them "upgraded" me to a   
A/C after i

brought about 6 of the others back) to a new A/C brand and everything was ok

Harlan


**
 See what's new at
http://www.aol.com

Re: [Chevelle-list] starter & starter wiring

[HarKemAsso]

In a message dated 10/26/2007 3:22:20 PM Central Daylight Time, 
[EMAIL PROTECTED] writes:


> I'm having some bad luck w/ starters

what brand is the starter?? i have had that happen with rebuilt ones, i 
switched (actually the store where i bought them "upgraded" me to a A/C after i 
brought about 6 of the others back) to a new A/C brand and everything was ok

Harlan


**
 See what's new at 
http://www.aol.com

Re: [Chevelle-list] STARTER

[Jim H. Thompson]

Do you know if the starter bolts are straight across from each other or are
they offset? Do you have the nose bracket that bolts to the front of the
starter? Are you using GM starter bolts? All of these must be correct in
order to have a smooth operating starter. E-mail me off the list and I can
send pictures of what you need.

Jim

 

From: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
[mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of
[EMAIL PROTECTED]
Sent: Saturday, July 07, 2007 11:03 AM
To: chevelle-list@chevelles.net
Subject: [Chevelle-list] STARTER

 

I have a 65 Chevelle, 327 4 speed, and having trouble with the starter
engaging the flywheel. It starts most of the time, but every once in a while
the gear will hit the flywheel and not engage. We have shimmed the starter
and  doesn't seem to help. We have changed the shim several trying different
settings with no change in the problem.

 

At first we thought it was electrical problem, changed the switch, new
cables and even redid the wiring to starter, no help. It is getting full 12
volts to starter.

 

Does any one have any ideas as to what I can do to fix the problem?

 

Thanks Darrell





  _  

See what's free at AOL.com  . 

Re: [Chevelle-list] STARTER

[ed]

If the problem began after installing the new flywheel, the newest part is 
always the suspect...

> -Original Message-
> From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]
> Sent: Saturday, July 7, 2007 04:02 PM
> To: chevelle-list@chevelles.net
> Subject: Re: [Chevelle-list] STARTER
> 
> It has a new flywheel, but then it could be bad. 
> 
> 
> 
> ** See what's free at http://www.aol.com.
> 

Re: [Chevelle-list] STARTER

[TinIndian47]

It has a new flywheel, but then it could be bad. 



** See what's free at http://www.aol.com.

Re: [Chevelle-list] STARTER

[TinIndian47]

The starter works fine and no whinnying, that part is fine. The problem is  
that at times the gear on the starter comes out and hits the flywheel and will  
not engage the gears on the flywheel, I didn't make myself clear. Most of the 
 time it has no problem, but at times  it will not engage the  flywheel. At 
first I thought it was the solenoid but when watching from  under the car I saw 
the problem. Even tried beveling the gears on the leading  edge a little more 
on the starter, hoping it would help engage.
 
Thanks, Darrell 



** See what's free at http://www.aol.com.

Re: [Chevelle-list] STARTER

[ed]

Inspect the ring gear on the flywheel to see if it has worn teeth in one area.  
If so, you must replace it...


> -Original Message-
> From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]
> Sent: Saturday, July 7, 2007 03:03 PM
> To: chevelle-list@chevelles.net
> Subject: [Chevelle-list] STARTER
> 
> I have a 65 Chevelle, 327 4 speed, and having trouble with the starter  
> engaging the flywheel. It starts most of the time, but every once in a while 
> the  
> gear will hit the flywheel and not engage. We have shimmed the  starter and  
> doesn't seem to help. We have changed the shim several  trying different 
> settings with no change in the problem.
>  
> At first we thought it was electrical problem, changed the switch, new  
> cables and even redid the wiring to starter, no help. It is getting full 12  
> volts 
> to starter.
>  
> Does any one have any ideas as to what I can do to fix the problem?
>  
> Thanks Darrell
> 
> 
> 
> ** See what's free at http://www.aol.com.
> 

Re: [Chevelle-list] STARTER

[tech]

A high pitched whine during cranking, before the engine fires, can be caused
by the pinion and flywheel being too far apart - too much shim.
 
A whine after the engine starts, as the key is released, is often a result
of the pinion-flywheel relationship being too close.
 
In both cases flywheel damage can occur...  Remove the starter and turn the
flywheel over by hand and inspect the teeth.  Worst case - you may have to
replace the flywheel.
 
    Granite City Performance 
custom engineered competition components
 

  _  

From: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
[mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of
[EMAIL PROTECTED]
Sent: Saturday, July 07, 2007 10:03
To: chevelle-list@chevelles.net
Subject: [Chevelle-list] STARTER


I have a 65 Chevelle, 327 4 speed, and having trouble with the starter
engaging the flywheel. It starts most of the time, but every once in a while
the gear will hit the flywheel and not engage. We have shimmed the starter
and  doesn't seem to help. We have changed the shim several trying different
settings with no change in the problem.
 
At first we thought it was electrical problem, changed the switch, new
cables and even redid the wiring to starter, no help. It is getting full 12
volts to starter.
 
Does any one have any ideas as to what I can do to fix the problem?
 
Thanks Darrell



  _  

See what's free at AOL.com  . 
<>

Re: [Chevelle-list] Starter wiring terminals 72 Chevelle

[Bill Vander Werf]

The yellow wire ran up to the coil to supply the points ignition with a full 12 
volts for starting. It was energized only when the starter was engaged. If you 
are using HEI ignition you don't want this wire connected.

You also want to make sure you don't supply your HEI distributor with power 
from the resistor wire that used to power your points type distributor. HEI 
needs a full 12 volts.

Bill Vander Werf

  - Original Message - 
  From: Jim Buckingham 
  To: 'The Chevelle Mailing List' 
  Sent: Tuesday, April 03, 2007 10:32 AM
  Subject: [Chevelle-list] Starter wiring terminals 72 Chevelle


  I have a new harness, with HEI and three wire alternator from M&H.  I need to 
connect the wires to the starter.  It looks like there are 3 or 4 terminals on 
the starter.  It looks like the S terminal is closest to the engine and the 
purple wire goes on that one.  The center lug is big and the wire from the 
battery goes to that one.  There is then a small terminal directly below the 
battery lug and one outboard of it.  I have two other wires to hook up.  One 
being a yellow and the other is black I beleive.  Which terminals do the 
connect to  Should have wired this up before putting the headers on.

  Thanks,

Re: [Chevelle-list] Starter wiring terminals 72 Chevelle

[Malibu]

Check this site out. Scroll to the one you need.

http://www.autozone.com/servlet/UiBroker?ForwardPage=/az/cds/en_us/0900823d/80/11/cc/b2/0900823d8011ccb2.jsp
  - Original Message - 
  From: Jim Buckingham 
  To: 'The Chevelle Mailing List' 
  Sent: Tuesday, April 03, 2007 10:32 AM
  Subject: [Chevelle-list] Starter wiring terminals 72 Chevelle


  I have a new harness, with HEI and three wire alternator from M&H.  I need to 
connect the wires to the starter.  It looks like there are 3 or 4 terminals on 
the starter.  It looks like the S terminal is closest to the engine and the 
purple wire goes on that one.  The center lug is big and the wire from the 
battery goes to that one.  There is then a small terminal directly below the 
battery lug and one outboard of it.  I have two other wires to hook up.  One 
being a yellow and the other is black I beleive.  Which terminals do the 
connect to  Should have wired this up before putting the headers on.

  Thanks,

  Jim

Re: [Chevelle-list] Starter Wiring

[Dale]

You should be able to simply tape up the
existing wire to the “R” terminal to the coil.  This was used to
supply low voltage to a point-type distributor.

 



Dale McIntosh 
67 El Camino 
1967 Chevelle Reference CD 
http://www.chevellecd.com 
ACES #1709/TC Gold #92 











From: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
[mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On
Behalf Of Larry Shouse
Sent: Wednesday, May 03, 2006 2:32
PM
To: The
 Chevelle Mailing List
Subject: Re: [Chevelle-list]
Starter Wiring



 



Yeah John, when I
ordered the harness, I was a bit more serious about going original. Since then,
I've installed a Mallory Unilite Comp9000 distributor and a Hyfire VI CD
ignition system. 





 





By saying I can ignore the second wire, you mean the one
that goes to the + terminal of the coil, right?





 





Thanks,





Larry Shouse







- Original Message - 





From: John Nasta 





To: The
Chevelle Mailing List 





Sent: Wednesday, May 03,
2006 3:20 PM





Subject: Re:
[Chevelle-list] Starter Wiring





 



Sounds like you bought a harness for points ignition.
If you have HEI, you can ignore the second wire, but if you do have points, you
may need to go back to the old-fashioned style starter. The ones with three
posts are getting harder and harder to find. I have one here freshly rebuilt
but it belongs to my '70.

 

 

-Original
Message-
From: Larry Shouse [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]
Sent: Wednesday, May 03, 2006 3:09
PM
To: Chevelle List
Subject: [Chevelle-list] Starter
Wiring

 

On my
B&H original style engine harness, I have two wires going to the started. A
purple and a pink. My Summit Protorque starter only has two terminals - one
where the positive 4g wire from the battery goes, and a smaller connection
point. So which of the two wires do I connect to the starter, and what to do
with the other? Do I put both on the small terminal?

 

 

Thanks,

Larry
Shouse

Re: [Chevelle-list] Starter Wiring

[Larry Shouse]

Yeah John, when I ordered the harness, I was a bit 
more serious about going original. Since then, I've installed a Mallory Unilite 
Comp9000 distributor and a Hyfire VI CD ignition system. 
 
By saying I can ignore the second wire, you mean 
the one that goes to the + terminal of the coil, right?
 
Thanks,
Larry Shouse

  - Original Message - 
  From: 
  John Nasta 
  
  To: The Chevelle Mailing List 
  Sent: Wednesday, May 03, 2006 3:20 
  PM
  Subject: Re: [Chevelle-list] Starter 
  Wiring
  
  
  Sounds 
  like you bought a harness for points ignition. If you have HEI, you can ignore 
  the second wire, but if you do have points, you may need to go back to the 
  old-fashioned style starter. The ones with three posts are getting harder and 
  harder to find. I have one here freshly rebuilt but it belongs to my 
  '70.
   
   
  -Original 
  Message-From: Larry 
  Shouse [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]Sent: Wednesday, May 03, 2006 3:09 
  PMTo: Chevelle 
  ListSubject: [Chevelle-list] 
  Starter Wiring
   
  On my 
  B&H original style engine harness, I have two wires going to the started. 
  A purple and a pink. My Summit Protorque starter only has two terminals - one 
  where the positive 4g wire from the battery goes, and a smaller connection 
  point. So which of the two wires do I connect to the starter, and what to do 
  with the other? Do I put both on the small terminal?
   
   
  Thanks,
  Larry 
  Shouse

Re: [Chevelle-list] Starter Wiring

[John Nasta]

Sounds
like you bought a harness for points ignition. If you have HEI, you can ignore
the second wire, but if you do have points, you may need to go back to the
old-fashioned style starter. The ones with three posts are getting harder and
harder to find. I have one here freshly rebuilt but it belongs to my '70.

 

 

-Original
Message-
From: Larry Shouse
[mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]
Sent: Wednesday, May 03, 2006 3:09
PM
To: Chevelle List
Subject: [Chevelle-list] Starter
Wiring

 

On my
B&H original style engine harness, I have two wires going to the started. A
purple and a pink. My Summit Protorque starter only has two terminals - one
where the positive 4g wire from the battery goes, and a smaller connection
point. So which of the two wires do I connect to the starter, and what to do
with the other? Do I put both on the small terminal?

 

 

Thanks,

Larry
Shouse

Re: [Chevelle-list] Starter problem

[Justin Tyree]

Thanks Shawn.

I believe you're right about the wire swapping.  The old stuff is 40 yrs old 
and brittle, not to mention how many times the wires were cut to find a hot 
for new radios (you wish you could talk to previous owners to see what they 
were thinking).


I think I'm going to spend the money and buy a new harness.  I have parts 
cars, but there is always something wrong with those also.  There is a 
company names M & H that seems to have a product.  I bought the engine 
harness through them and was very pleased.


justing

- Original Message - 
From: "Shawn Price" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>

To: "The Chevelle Mailing List" 
Sent: Saturday, April 22, 2006 10:27 AM
Subject: Re: [Chevelle-list] Starter problem



Justin,
 You should have 12v at the solenoid. The only place you will find 
reduced voltage is at the coil due to the ballast resistor... but you 
should have 8-10 volts there I believe. You might want to check to  make 
sure you don't have two resistors run in series. Anyway it  sounds like 
you might need to do a little more wire swapping.


Shawn
On Apr 22, 2006, at 7:01 AM, Justin and Belinda Tyree wrote:

If you all remember, I emailed the list about a week and a half ago 
about
starting problems with my 66 (It wouldn't start with just the  switch). 
The

wiring was all chopped up, so I replaced the engine harness.  I still
require a seperate starter switch (an old horn button).  I used a 
voltmeter
to find that I have 12V at the hot wire to the ignition switch and  5.8 
at
the ignition switch when I turn the key for the soliniod.  I have  5.8 V 
at
the ignition post on the soliniod also.  I believe I am not getting 
enough
voltage to the soliniod (ignition).  Does anyone know what the  voltage 
at

the soliniod is supposed to be?  Maybe it's the switch?

thanks
justin

Re: [Chevelle-list] Starter problem

[Shawn Price]

Justin,
 You should have 12v at the solenoid. The only place you will find  
reduced voltage is at the coil due to the ballast resistor... but you  
should have 8-10 volts there I believe. You might want to check to  
make sure you don't have two resistors run in series. Anyway it  
sounds like you might need to do a little more wire swapping.


Shawn
On Apr 22, 2006, at 7:01 AM, Justin and Belinda Tyree wrote:

If you all remember, I emailed the list about a week and a half ago  
about
starting problems with my 66 (It wouldn't start with just the  
switch).  The

wiring was all chopped up, so I replaced the engine harness.  I still
require a seperate starter switch (an old horn button).  I used a  
voltmeter
to find that I have 12V at the hot wire to the ignition switch and  
5.8 at
the ignition switch when I turn the key for the soliniod.  I have  
5.8 V at
the ignition post on the soliniod also.  I believe I am not getting  
enough
voltage to the soliniod (ignition).  Does anyone know what the  
voltage at

the soliniod is supposed to be?  Maybe it's the switch?

thanks
justin

Re: [Chevelle-list] starter problems

[Jim H. Thompson]

Correct the battery cable is separate.  Summit sells their own version a little
cheaper.

 

-Original
Message-
From:
[EMAIL PROTECTED]
[mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]On
Behalf Of [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Sent: Thursday, February 23, 2006
9:22 PM
To: Chevelle-list@chevelles.net
Subject: Re: [Chevelle-list]
starter problems

 

In a
message dated 2/23/2006 6:20:07 PM Central Standard Time,
[EMAIL PROTECTED] writes:







Did you
order the quick connect harness that drops out with the starter?

890-351073 Jeg’s part number





This harness looks like it does not have the main wire from the battery.

Re: [Chevelle-list] Starter problems

[Justin Tyree]

My wife ordered it while I was out of town.  I 
didn't know a person could order it that way, but I would have asked if I 
ordered it.

  - Original Message - 
  From: 
  [EMAIL PROTECTED] 
  To: Chevelle-list@chevelles.net 
  
  Sent: Saturday, February 25, 2006 2:31 
  PM
  Subject: Re: [Chevelle-list] Starter 
  problems
  
  Was there a reason you didn't order it setup for the HEI 
?

Re: [Chevelle-list] Starter problems

[Z16CHEVELLEGUY]

Was there a reason you didn't order it setup for the HEI 
?

Re: [Chevelle-list] Starter problems

[vin]

listen carefully never dismiss the starter for defect esp. if its a no name 
brand.-the fat cable is power 12 v all the time the sol. wire 
power only when you go to start if you have that change starter a good 
battery is a must first.
- Original Message - 
From: "Mark Tibbits" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>

To: "The Chevelle Mailing List" 
Sent: Thursday, February 23, 2006 5:10 PM
Subject: Re: [Chevelle-list] Starter problems


I had the same problem a long time ago and it was the batt. There was not 
enough charge in the batt. to disengage the solenoid.
- Original Message - 
From: "Justin and Belinda Tyree" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>

To: 
Sent: Wednesday, February 22, 2006 4:24 PM
Subject: [Chevelle-list] Starter problems



Hello all.  I'm new to the list. I have a 66 Malibu Convertable with a
slight problem.  I replaced my starter and it worked fine.  I started it 
up

3 or 4 times after the installation.  Today I went to start it and the
started would not disengage.  It just kept on trying to start itself. 
I'm

thinking the solinoid.  Any thoughts or similar experiences?


Thanks
judd

Re: [Chevelle-list] Starter problems

[Bill Lessenberry]

Nah, I know you better than that.  We couldn't kick you off of here 
even if you wanted to go!  Where else can you go to abuse & be abused 
by such a good group of folks??

You & me, we'll never leave. :-P
BillL


At 07:19 PM 2/23/2006, you wrote:

Oh,no,,not the HEI install posts again. Sounds like it's time for me to
unsubscribe. 
Clint Hooper

Re: [Chevelle-list] Starter problems

[Bill Bradley IV]

hehehehe
- Original Message - 
From: "Clint Hooper" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>

To: "The Chevelle Mailing List" 
Sent: Thursday, February 23, 2006 7:19 PM
Subject: Re: [Chevelle-list] Starter problems



Oh,no,,not the HEI install posts again. Sounds like it's time for me to
unsubscribe. 
Clint Hooper
H&H Custom,owner
1969 El Camino ProTourer
2001 H-D FLHR custom bagger
http://dalesplace.com/misc/friends/clint/clint_hooper.htm
- Original Message - 
From: "Justin Tyree" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>



My next question.  The new wiring harness is for an original setup. I 
have

an HEI distributor.  What do I need to do to make it work?

Re: [Chevelle-list] starter problems

[HarKemAsso]

In a message dated 2/23/2006 6:20:07 PM Central Standard Time, [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes:


Did you order the quick connect harness that drops out with the starter.

890-351073 Jegs part number

this harness looks like it does not have the main wire from the battery??

Re: [Chevelle-list] Starter problems

[Clint Hooper]

Oh,no,,not the HEI install posts again. Sounds like it's time for me to
unsubscribe. 
Clint Hooper
H&H Custom,owner
1969 El Camino ProTourer
2001 H-D FLHR custom bagger
http://dalesplace.com/misc/friends/clint/clint_hooper.htm
- Original Message - 
From: "Justin Tyree" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>


> My next question.  The new wiring harness is for an original setup. I have
> an HEI distributor.  What do I need to do to make it work?

Re: [Chevelle-list] Starter problems

[Justin Tyree]

Thanks everyone for all your suggestions.  Eddie had it right.  The starter 
wires somehow made it to the exhaust manifold and melted together to the 
manifold (I can be such a bonehead sometimes).  I was on my way to the parts 
store to get some wire when the UPS guy showed up with my new engine harness 
from Year One.  I'm pretty excited to rewire the engine bay.  My old wiring 
is so butchered that I don't recognize the attachment connectors on the new 
harness.  I'll figure it out when I lay them side by side, but I doubt the 
colors will be the same.


My next question.  The new wiring harness is for an original setup. I have 
an HEI distrubuter.  What do I need to do to make it work?




- Original Message - 
From: "Jim H. Thompson" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>

To: "The Chevelle Mailing List" 
Sent: Wednesday, February 22, 2006 7:31 PM
Subject: Re: [Chevelle-list] Starter problems



You replaced the starter but not the solenoid? Are you using a stock
starter, a remote solenoid, or a mini starter?

-Original Message-
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
[mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Behalf Of Justin and 
Belinda

Tyree
Sent: Wednesday, February 22, 2006 5:25 PM
To: Chevelle-list@chevelles.net
Subject: [Chevelle-list] Starter problems

Hello all.  I'm new to the list. I have a 66 Malibu Convertable with a
slight problem.  I replaced my starter and it worked fine.  I started it 
up

3 or 4 times after the installation.  Today I went to start it and the
started would not disengage.  It just kept on trying to start itself.  I'm
thinking the solinoid.  Any thoughts or similar experiences?


Thanks
judd

Re: [Chevelle-list] Starter problems

[Jim H. Thompson]

You replaced the starter but not the solenoid? Are you using a stock
starter, a remote solenoid, or a mini starter?

-Original Message-
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
[mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Behalf Of Justin and Belinda
Tyree
Sent: Wednesday, February 22, 2006 5:25 PM
To: Chevelle-list@chevelles.net
Subject: [Chevelle-list] Starter problems

Hello all.  I'm new to the list. I have a 66 Malibu Convertable with a
slight problem.  I replaced my starter and it worked fine.  I started it up
3 or 4 times after the installation.  Today I went to start it and the
started would not disengage.  It just kept on trying to start itself.  I'm
thinking the solinoid.  Any thoughts or similar experiences?


Thanks
judd

Re: [Chevelle-list] starter problems

[Jim H. Thompson]

Did you order the quick connect harness that drops out with the starter.

890-351073 Jegs part number

-Original Message-
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
[mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Behalf Of Justin and Belinda
Tyree
Sent: Wednesday, February 22, 2006 5:57 PM
To: Chevelle-list@chevelles.net
Subject: [Chevelle-list] starter problems

Hello all.  I'm new to the list and I have a problem.  I recently changed my
starter and everything was fine.  Yesterday I went to start the car and the
starter engaged but would not disengage. I had to get out of the car and
disconnect the battery. ??Solinoid??  The wiring is butchered and I ordered
new wiring thru Year One, but it's never done this before and the starter
worked fine after I installed it.

thanks
judd

Re: [Chevelle-list] Starter problems

[John Nasta]

p.s. I replaced my starter about a year ago and never did test to see if the
same thing happens with the new starter, because there was snow on the
ground and I was lying in the street, and I just wanted to get the job over
with. I should try it. It wouldn't be difficult, and then I would know if it
was the starter or the wiring. I need to spend a day under this car anyway
as soon as it gets a little warmer.

Re: [Chevelle-list] Starter problems

[John Nasta]

Is the gear just not disengaging or is the starter motor continuing to try
to drive the gear?

Mine also has a problem where having the key in the run position is the same
as having the key in the start position. Sounds the same or similar to
yours. I have always assumed it had something to do w/ the fact that
somebody installed a B&M floor shifter and did some funky wiring to bypass
the neutral safety switch on the column. I have a separate hot lead and a
remote starter switch to circumvent the problem for now. It's a quick fix
(uh, rig).

John Nasta



-Original Message-


> Hello all.  I'm new to the list. I have a 66 Malibu Convertable with a
> slight problem.  I replaced my starter and it worked fine.  I started it
> up
> 3 or 4 times after the installation.  Today I went to start it and the
> started would not disengage.  It just kept on trying to start itself.  I'm
> thinking the solinoid.  Any thoughts or similar experiences?
>
>
> Thanks
> judd
>
>
>

Re: [Chevelle-list] Starter problems

[Mark Tibbits]

I had the same problem a long time ago and it was the batt. There was not 
enough charge in the batt. to disengage the solenoid.
- Original Message - 
From: "Justin and Belinda Tyree" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>

To: 
Sent: Wednesday, February 22, 2006 4:24 PM
Subject: [Chevelle-list] Starter problems



Hello all.  I'm new to the list. I have a 66 Malibu Convertable with a
slight problem.  I replaced my starter and it worked fine.  I started it 
up

3 or 4 times after the installation.  Today I went to start it and the
started would not disengage.  It just kept on trying to start itself.  I'm
thinking the solinoid.  Any thoughts or similar experiences?


Thanks
judd

Re: [Chevelle-list] starter problems

[Rick Schaefer]

This is an excellent explaination of how to shim a starter IF that is your problem.  And even if it isn't the problem now, your starter will last longer if it is shimmed correctly.   
http://macc.chevelles.net/starter.htm
 
On 2/23/06, vin <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:

you probably put the little wire on the solenoid on the wrong one it goes on the s


- Original Message - 
From: Eddie Bumgarner
 
To: The Chevelle Mailing List
 
Sent: Wednesday, February 22, 2006 7:28 PM
Subject: Re: [Chevelle-list] starter problems
 
Hello my name is Eddie and welcome to the club. Im restoring a 66SS convertable (frame off)  also, I love these cars. 
   Now about the starter problem it could be one of a many things.I think a process of elemination would be good. First check to see if you have two wires melted together under the hood then under the dash next check your key switch. good luck! Eddie
Justin and Belinda Tyree <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
Hello all. I'm new to the list and I have a problem. I recently changed mystarter and everything was fine. Yesterday I went to start the car and the
starter engaged but would not disengage. I had to get out of the car anddisconnect the battery. ??Solinoid?? The wiring is butchered and I orderednew wiring thru Year One, but it's never done this before and the starter
worked fine after I installed it.thanksjudd



Yahoo! Autos. Looking for a sweet ride? Get pricing, reviews, & more on new and used cars. 
-- Rick Schaefer72 TPI El Camino

Re: [Chevelle-list] starter problems

[vin]

you probably put the little wire on the solenoid on 
the wrong one it goes on the s

  - Original Message - 
  From: 
  Eddie Bumgarner 
  To: The Chevelle Mailing List 
  Sent: Wednesday, February 22, 2006 7:28 
  PM
  Subject: Re: [Chevelle-list] starter 
  problems
  
  Hello my name is Eddie and welcome to the club. Im restoring a 66SS 
  convertable (frame off)  also, I love these cars. 
     Now about the starter problem 
  it could be one of a many things.I think a process of elemination would be 
  good. First check to see if you have two wires melted together under the hood 
  then under the dash next check your key switch. good luck! 
  EddieJustin and Belinda Tyree 
  <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
  Hello 
all. I'm new to the list and I have a problem. I recently changed 
mystarter and everything was fine. Yesterday I went to start the car and 
thestarter engaged but would not disengage. I had to get out of the car 
anddisconnect the battery. ??Solinoid?? The wiring is butchered and I 
orderednew wiring thru Year One, but it's never done this before and the 
starterworked fine after I installed 
it.thanksjudd
  
  
  Yahoo! 
  Autos. Looking for a sweet ride? Get pricing, reviews, & more on new 
  and used cars. 

Re: [Chevelle-list] Starter problems

[Karl Groves]

Ron's right.
In fact, they just discussed this in Car Craft or one of those and they
mentioned a specific amount of spacing you should try to achieve. I'll try
to look it up and repost it.


Karl Groves
Master Certified CIW
http://www.karlgroves.com 

Will Work For Parts:
http://chevelle.karlcore.com/detail.php?id=3 

> -Original Message-
> From: Ron Zeppin [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] 
> Sent: Wednesday, February 22, 2006 9:01 PM
> To: The Chevelle Mailing List
> Subject: Re: [Chevelle-list] Starter problems
> 
> Welcome Judd... Another thing to look at is the clearance 
> between the flywheel teeth and starter teeth...
> If the clearance is too tight, the solenoid will not 
> disengage...this is a VERY common problem when replacing 
> starters... I'd just read a couple of articles on this on the 
> www.chevelles.com forums recently.
> All you need to do is pick up the shim at an autoparts 
> store..they go between the starter and the block, which moves 
> the started down very slightly and away from the flywheel...
> 
> Ron
> 
> Justin and Belinda Tyree wrote:
> 
> >Hello all.  I'm new to the list. I have a 66 Malibu 
> Convertable with a
> >slight problem.  I replaced my starter and it worked fine.  
> I started it up
> >3 or 4 times after the installation.  Today I went to start 
> it and the
> >started would not disengage.  It just kept on trying to 
> start itself.  I'm
> >thinking the solinoid.  Any thoughts or similar experiences?
> >
> >
> >Thanks
> >judd
> >
> >
> >
> >  
> >
> 
> 
> 
> 

Re: [Chevelle-list] Starter problems

[Ron Zeppin]

Welcome Judd... Another thing to look at is the clearance between the 
flywheel teeth and starter teeth...
If the clearance is too tight, the solenoid will not disengage...this is 
a VERY common problem when
replacing starters... I'd just read a couple of articles on this on the 
www.chevelles.com forums recently.
All you need to do is pick up the shim at an autoparts store..they go 
between the starter and the block,

which moves the started down very slightly and away from the flywheel...

Ron

Justin and Belinda Tyree wrote:


Hello all.  I'm new to the list. I have a 66 Malibu Convertable with a
slight problem.  I replaced my starter and it worked fine.  I started it up
3 or 4 times after the installation.  Today I went to start it and the
started would not disengage.  It just kept on trying to start itself.  I'm
thinking the solinoid.  Any thoughts or similar experiences?


Thanks
judd



 

Re: [Chevelle-list] starter problems

[Eddie Bumgarner]

Hello my name is Eddie and welcome to the club. Im restoring a 66SS convertable (frame off)  also, I love these cars.      Now about the starter problem it could be one of a many things.I think a process of elemination would be good. First check to see if you have two wires melted together under the hood then under the dash next check your key switch. good luck! EddieJustin and Belinda Tyree <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:  Hello all. I'm new to the list and I have a problem. I recently changed mystarter and everything was fine. Yesterday I went to start the car and thestarter engaged but would not disengage. I had to get out of the car anddisconnect the battery. ??Solinoid?? The wiring is butchered and I orderednew wiring thru Year One, but it's never done this
 before and the starterworked fine after I installed it.thanksjudd
		 Yahoo! Autos. Looking for a sweet ride? Get pricing, reviews, & more on new and used cars.

RE: [Chevelle-list] starter hits the flexplate

[John Nasta]

The cracks usually run between the boltholes. You probably have to take the
flexplate off to actually see them.

Re: [Chevelle-list] starter hits the flexplate

[SHOVEL6793]

yes i had the same problem and it was a cracked flexplate 

Re: [Chevelle-list] Starter problems!

[Pelle Andersson]

I read an article about letting the starter find 
it's own way
to the best position & it seems to have worked 
(knock on wood).
I tightened the bolts just enough to hold it in to 
place but loose
enough to make it move when I engage it. Then I 
tightened the
bolts. I used the bolts that came with my starter 
so I assume
they're the right ones?
 
Nothing's loose, the starter's almost new & 
have been working
flawlessly for a year and the suddenly it started 
to hit the flexplate.
 
Hope it's ok now, we'll see?
 
Thanks for your input.
 
B.R. Pelle

  - Original Message - 
  From: 
  Rick Schaefer 
  
  To: The Chevelle Mailing List 
  Sent: Sunday, August 21, 2005 5:14 
  PM
  Subject: Re: [Chevelle-list] Starter 
  problems!
  
     Are the starter bolts still tight?   If they are 
  loose, did you use the correct type?   The starter uses special 
  mount bolts with a knurl on the shaft to prevent them from vibrating 
  loose.
   
    Is it possible that the flexplate is loose? 
  On 8/20/05, Pelle 
  Andersson <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> 
  wrote: 
  
I shimmed the starter and it got better for a 
while but now
it's hitting the flexplate again when I try to 
start.
It is as if the starters teeth are hitting the 
flexplates teeth.
 
The starter is quite new, a year or so. 
It's a Powermaster "mini starter"
 
Any ideas?
 
Best 
regardsPelle__Chevelle 
gearheadshttp://hem.bredband.net/chevellegearheads/-- Rick Schaefer72 TPI El 
Camino

Re: [Chevelle-list] Starter problems!

[Rick Schaefer]

   Are the starter bolts still tight?   If they are loose, did you use the correct type?   The starter uses special mount bolts with a knurl on the shaft to prevent them from vibrating loose.
 
  Is it possible that the flexplate is loose? 
On 8/20/05, Pelle Andersson <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:

I shimmed the starter and it got better for a while but now
it's hitting the flexplate again when I try to start.
It is as if the starters teeth are hitting the flexplates teeth.
 
The starter is quite new, a year or so. It's a Powermaster "mini starter"
 
Any ideas?
 
Best regardsPelle__Chevelle gearheads
http://hem.bredband.net/chevellegearheads/-- Rick Schaefer72 TPI El Camino

Re: [Chevelle-list] Starter shim technique

[Rick Schaefer]

This is from a web search.  Pictures are worth  a   thousand words.   http://macc.chevelles.net/images/starter.jpg
On 8/20/05, mike f <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
Can someone walk me through the process of shimmingthe starter? I know that the solenoid needs to be
removed but then,,,?Thanxmike__Do You Yahoo!?Tired of spam?  Yahoo! Mail has the best spam protection around
http://mail.yahoo.com-- Rick Schaefer72 TPI El Camino

Re: [Chevelle-list] starter trouble

[Copocloner]

no clue as of yet i had the starter check, it's ok, and the battery is new but been sitting awhile but the light shows green and i have had a charger on it, so im thinking the switch is my  problem,  i have seen ignition's switches wired different from year to year, and i have a spare to try. so maybe i will get lucky, weather is suppose to warm up a bit maybe i will get a day or two to work out this bug, thanks for your help   rick

Re: [Chevelle-list] starter trouble

[Eddie Bumgarner]

it could be wired up wrong , i had that problem beforeMark Tibbits <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:




Rick I had that problem before and it was not the switch it was the batt. the batt. did not have enough power to disengage the starter solenoid.Make sure the batt. has a full charge. Mark 

- Original Message - 
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] 
To: Chevelle-list@chevelles.net 
Sent: Friday, January 21, 2005 1:01 AM
Subject: Re: [Chevelle-list] starter trouble
i have a switch that wont quit, i try to turn it off and it continue to crank the starter thanks god i pull the  coil wire before attemping to fire the new engine, im thinking the switch is stuck from a lack of use or whatever , does anyone have a clue to my problem , thanks    rick 
		Do you Yahoo!? 
Yahoo! Search presents - Jib Jab's 'Second Term'

Re: [Chevelle-list] starter trouble (ghost in the machine)

[Copocloner]

thanks everyone for there help, i will check out your guys suggestions,, this is all stock setup, i think what i did wrong was, i made my own starter heat shield, from fiberglass and metal tape, i think i made  my own little loop in the circuit,  , when i  try to crank and it continue  to  run away with itself, i pull the cable from the batt., and the loop ends there is no  power drain from the batt until i try again, so IM going to pull the heat shield off and see if that cures my problem, i hope i don't have to pull the sucker, i have a newer corvette do the same thing  i replace the starter and that  fix  that problem, but i think i cause my own problem with the chevelle,, thanks again  for all your advice, i let you all know what the deal is when figure it out.  Rick

Re: [Chevelle-list] starter trouble

[Mark Tibbits]

Rick I had that problem before and it was not the 
switch it was the batt. the batt. did not have enough power to disengage the 
starter solenoid.Make sure the batt. has a full charge. Mark 

  - Original Message - 
  From: 
  [EMAIL PROTECTED] 
  To: Chevelle-list@chevelles.net 
  
  Sent: Friday, January 21, 2005 1:01 
  AM
  Subject: Re: [Chevelle-list] starter 
  trouble
  i have a switch that wont quit, i try to turn 
  it off and it continue to crank the starter thanks god i pull the  coil 
  wire before attemping to fire the new engine, im thinking the switch is stuck 
  from a lack of use or whatever , does anyone have a clue to my problem , 
  thanks    rick 

Re: [Chevelle-list] starter trouble

[Copocloner]

 sorry guys i should have drop some more info down . 69 chevelle 396 400 auto,engine has not  ran yet , everything is new or working conditions when it was rebuilt, , im hoping that its in the switch and  not the stater dont want to pull that heavy sucker out, ok i been going though my check list  prime the engine and was checking the starter  for rotation andwhat not  when i tried to turn the engine over it just click click. so i try it a few times then she just went off and would not stop, i have a after markit shifter (please forgive me) only piece of  the orient on the car ,im thinking its the switch under the dash is stuck from a lack of use ( please forgive me again)  i dont think its the starter, i have rebuilt many starter in my days and have never had any problems like this the selinoid is new , the iignition switch is new the only thing thats not 100% is the switch, and the after markit  neutral safety switch,is unknow  but new, hope this help you all to help me , thanks again    rick

Re: [Chevelle-list] starter trouble

[Wayne]

  Not knowing what year car your working on... ( 
early chevelles are easy to get to the starter  IGN switch to de- 
bug)  So I;ll  de-bug from the starter  back... Remove the purple 
wire to your starter solenoid.  Clip a test light opr  VOM  from 
it's lug to ground  ... You should NOT  have any 
voltage or light on your tester... This is with the battery  hooked up 
and the IGN switch  in the RUN position.
 Have some one rock the  IGN.switch  too 
the momentary START detent.   only  then should 
you  have voltage or your testers lamp. light..
.. 
Is it a stock two wire  or  an upgraded  
HEI and  using on ONE ( purple ) wire in  the starter circuit 
?
 
Wayne 

  - Original Message - 
  From: 
  [EMAIL PROTECTED] 
  To: Chevelle-list@chevelles.net 
  
  Sent: Friday, January 21, 2005 2:01 
  AM
  Subject: Re: [Chevelle-list] starter 
  trouble
  i have a switch that wont quit, i try to turn 
  it off and it continue to crank the starter thanks god i pull the  coil 
  wire before attemping to fire the new engine, im thinking the switch is stuck 
  from a lack of use or whatever , does anyone have a clue to my problem , 
  thanks    rick 

Re: [Chevelle-list] starter trouble

[tigergutt]

I had a similar problem  but it turned out to be a missing lock ring on the end 
of
the shaft that the starter gear slides on when you crank.
It sled to far and continued cranking and cranking until i pulled the battery 
cable.

Ciao
André

 > i have a switch that wont quit, i try to turn it off and it continue to crank
> the starter thanks god i pull the  coil wire before attemping to fire the new
> engine, im thinking the switch is stuck from a lack of use or whatever , does
> anyone have a clue to my problem , thanksrick
>

Re: [Chevelle-list] starter trouble

[Copocloner]

i have a switch that wont quit, i try to turn it off and it continue to crank the starter thanks god i pull the  coil wire before attemping to fire the new engine, im thinking the switch is stuck from a lack of use or whatever , does anyone have a clue to my problem , thanks    rick

Re: [Chevelle-list] Starter issues ...

[Graham Wooden]

Ahh, problem fixed It turned out to be the battery cable, which actually didn't
surprise me since it's one of those you have to put the ends yourself (trunk
mounted battery).  Now I just got to figure out how to make that soft lead end
stick better to the copper wires ...

Engine started right up, and it appears my new wiring kit works ... electric
choke kicked right in, the electric fan came on after about 10 mins and all my
new gauages work.  It was very relieving to hear the stroker's gear drive -
something about that whine  AH!

Now back to the Wilwood brake install 

-Graham
67 SS
http://projectchevelle.com/gallery/


Quoting Graham Wooden <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>:

> In addition, the Voltage Regulator clicks as well when I turn the key to
> start - is this normal?  Since this is the first time the car has been wired
> (I have ran the engine with a self-contained HEI starter unit), I don't have
> anything to go against...  Thanks,
>
> -Graham
>
>
> On 12/19/04 5:10 PM, "Graham Wooden" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
>
> > Thanks for the email Steve; the wiring is actually new - a bumper to bumper
> > kit and should be to today's standards.  However, I will double check that
> and
> > the voltage at the starter ... Thanks again!
> >
> > -Graham
> >
> >
> > On 12/19/04 2:38 PM, "[EMAIL PROTECTED]" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> >
> >> Its been a long time since I did any wiring on my car, but I think I had
> the
> >> same problem or something similar to your problem due to a voltage drop
> >> (About
> >> 8 volts -vs- 12+).  I believe it was caused by a factory resistor that
> >> reduces
> >> your ignition voltage down for stock applications.  I was installing HEI
> and
> >> it needed a full 12 volts to even start.  Is there a posibility that your
> >> power lead is running through one of these resistors?
> >>
> >> Good luck, I know electrical work can be a nightmare, but one of these
> guys
> >> on
> >> the list can definitely pull you through.
> >> Steve
> >>>
> >>> From: Graham Wooden <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
> >>> Date: 2004/12/17 Fri PM 07:33:48 EST
> >>> To: The Chevelle Mailing List 
> >>> Subject: [Chevelle-list] Starter issues ...
> >>>
> >>> So I decided to take a "brake" from the Wilwood front-disc install to
> finish
> >>> up
> >>> on the new wiring kit.  However, there seems to be an issue with my
> starter.
> >>>
> >>> When I turn the key to the Start, it ingages the starter but doesn't turn
> >>> nor
> >>> re-tract it back in - making a click only.  Turning the key back to Off
> and
> >>> then to Start just makes the click ...
> >>>
> >>> So, what could this be?  A bad starter?  Bad connection?  Bad ground?
> >>> I know it could be a shot in the dark, but thought I would ask you all.
> I
> >>> guess
> >>> I will take it out to get tested.
> >>>
> >>> -Graham
> >>>
> >>> 67 Chevelle SS
> >>>
> >>>
> >>>
> >>
> >>

Re: [Chevelle-list] Starter issues ...

[Tom Tomlinson]

I was having starter problems ever since I got my Malibu 4 years ago. It
would start ok cold, but not when hot. I installed a starter heat shield,
which seemed to work for a couple of years, but last year it started
failing, hot or cold. I trouble shooted all the voltages, etc. Finally, I
went to Advanced Auto, bought a $10 solenoid, and problem solved. It even
starts fine without the heat shield. I think the solenoid has been failing
slowly every since I got the car.

Tom Tomlinson


- Original Message - 
From: "Dennis Kiernan" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: "The Chevelle Mailing List" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Sent: Sunday, December 19, 2004 10:01 PM
Subject: Re: [Chevelle-list] Starter issues ...


> OK, here's something similiar. Suppose when you turn the ignition to
> Start, about a fourth of the time you get just the "click", and when
> you turn the key back to Off and then to Start again, the engine
> fires right up?
>
> I'm making a wild guess that either the starter solenoid or the
> ignition switch is dying. I cant diagnose electrical stuff, so I
> sort of follow the philosophy of whatever is getting near its
> natural life-span, replace that and see if it solves the problem.
>
> So what's the natural life span of these parts of the system? And is
> there a more professioonal way to do it?
>
> Graham Wooden wrote:
> >
> > In addition, the Voltage Regulator clicks as well when I turn the key to
> > start - is this normal?  Since this is the first time the car has been
wired
> > (I have ran the engine with a self-contained HEI starter unit), I don't
have
> > anything to go against...  Thanks,
> >
> > -Graham
> >
> > On 12/19/04 5:10 PM, "Graham Wooden" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> >
> > > Thanks for the email Steve; the wiring is actually new - a bumper to
bumper
> > > kit and should be to today's standards.  However, I will double check
that and
> > > the voltage at the starter ... Thanks again!
> > >
> > > -Graham
> > >
> > >
> > > On 12/19/04 2:38 PM, "[EMAIL PROTECTED]" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> > >
> > >> Its been a long time since I did any wiring on my car, but I think I
had the
> > >> same problem or something similar to your problem due to a voltage
drop
> > >> (About
> > >> 8 volts -vs- 12+).  I believe it was caused by a factory resistor
that
> > >> reduces
> > >> your ignition voltage down for stock applications.  I was installing
HEI and
> > >> it needed a full 12 volts to even start.  Is there a posibility that
your
> > >> power lead is running through one of these resistors?
> > >>
> > >> Good luck, I know electrical work can be a nightmare, but one of
these guys
> > >> on
> > >> the list can definitely pull you through.
> > >> Steve
> > >>>
> > >>> From: Graham Wooden <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
> > >>> Date: 2004/12/17 Fri PM 07:33:48 EST
> > >>> To: The Chevelle Mailing List <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
> > >>> Subject: [Chevelle-list] Starter issues ...
> > >>>
> > >>> So I decided to take a "brake" from the Wilwood front-disc install
to finish
> > >>> up
> > >>> on the new wiring kit.  However, there seems to be an issue with my
starter.
> > >>>
> > >>> When I turn the key to the Start, it ingages the starter but doesn't
turn
> > >>> nor
> > >>> re-tract it back in - making a click only.  Turning the key back to
Off and
> > >>> then to Start just makes the click ...
> > >>>
> > >>> So, what could this be?  A bad starter?  Bad connection?  Bad
ground?
> > >>> I know it could be a shot in the dark, but thought I would ask you
all.  I
> > >>> guess
> > >>> I will take it out to get tested.
> > >>>
> > >>> -Graham
> > >>>
> > >>> 67 Chevelle SS
> > >>>
> > >>>
> > >>>
> > >>
> > >>
>
> -- 
> Dennis Kiernan
> San Francisco
>

Re: [Chevelle-list] Starter issues ...

[Dennis Kiernan]

OK, here's something similiar. Suppose when you turn the ignition to
Start, about a fourth of the time you get just the "click", and when
you turn the key back to Off and then to Start again, the engine
fires right up?

I'm making a wild guess that either the starter solenoid or the
ignition switch is dying. I cant diagnose electrical stuff, so I
sort of follow the philosophy of whatever is getting near its
natural life-span, replace that and see if it solves the problem.

So what's the natural life span of these parts of the system? And is
there a more professioonal way to do it?

Graham Wooden wrote:
> 
> In addition, the Voltage Regulator clicks as well when I turn the key to
> start - is this normal?  Since this is the first time the car has been wired
> (I have ran the engine with a self-contained HEI starter unit), I don't have
> anything to go against...  Thanks,
> 
> -Graham
> 
> On 12/19/04 5:10 PM, "Graham Wooden" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> 
> > Thanks for the email Steve; the wiring is actually new - a bumper to bumper
> > kit and should be to today's standards.  However, I will double check that 
> > and
> > the voltage at the starter ... Thanks again!
> >
> > -Graham
> >
> >
> > On 12/19/04 2:38 PM, "[EMAIL PROTECTED]" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> >
> >> Its been a long time since I did any wiring on my car, but I think I had 
> >> the
> >> same problem or something similar to your problem due to a voltage drop
> >> (About
> >> 8 volts -vs- 12+).  I believe it was caused by a factory resistor that
> >> reduces
> >> your ignition voltage down for stock applications.  I was installing HEI 
> >> and
> >> it needed a full 12 volts to even start.  Is there a posibility that your
> >> power lead is running through one of these resistors?
> >>
> >> Good luck, I know electrical work can be a nightmare, but one of these guys
> >> on
> >> the list can definitely pull you through.
> >> Steve
> >>>
> >>> From: Graham Wooden <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
> >>> Date: 2004/12/17 Fri PM 07:33:48 EST
> >>> To: The Chevelle Mailing List <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
> >>> Subject: [Chevelle-list] Starter issues ...
> >>>
> >>> So I decided to take a "brake" from the Wilwood front-disc install to 
> >>> finish
> >>> up
> >>> on the new wiring kit.  However, there seems to be an issue with my 
> >>> starter.
> >>>
> >>> When I turn the key to the Start, it ingages the starter but doesn't turn
> >>> nor
> >>> re-tract it back in - making a click only.  Turning the key back to Off 
> >>> and
> >>> then to Start just makes the click ...
> >>>
> >>> So, what could this be?  A bad starter?  Bad connection?  Bad ground?
> >>> I know it could be a shot in the dark, but thought I would ask you all.  I
> >>> guess
> >>> I will take it out to get tested.
> >>>
> >>> -Graham
> >>>
> >>> 67 Chevelle SS
> >>>
> >>>
> >>>
> >>
> >>

-- 
Dennis Kiernan
San Francisco