RE: [CinCV] DVGrab with monitoring
Hi Daniel! On 11/10/2011 12:01 AM, Daniel Jircik wrote: $ dvgrab -f hdv [options]basename - | ffplay -f mpegts -x 640 -y 360 - I tried dvgrab -a -t -f raw - | ffplay -f dv -x 640 -y 360 - Your command says: program autosplit timstamp format raw output to stdout try somthing like dvgrab -a -t -f raw myclip - | ffplay -f dv -x 640 -y 360 - and you get myclipdate.dv files :) That's the basename in above instruction. My test have shown that sometimes I get capture stopped when piping to ffplay. So beware. And interacvtive doesn't work. Hannu Vuolasaho ___ Cinelerra mailing list Cinelerra@skolelinux.no https://init.linpro.no/mailman/skolelinux.no/listinfo/cinelerra
RE: [CinCV] How to get same video properties on multiple tracs?
Let me see if I understood this right: Do you want a pseudo-panorama video stitched together from three videos, with colour/brightness adjustment near the edges to conceal the seams? Exactly. Looks like quite heavy computing and and panoramic video stitching hadn't much hits in google :( Hannu Vuolasaho ___ Cinelerra mailing list Cinelerra@skolelinux.no https://init.linpro.no/mailman/skolelinux.no/listinfo/cinelerra
[CinCV] How to get same video properties on multiple tracs?
Hi! I have been wondering how do I do this. I have three different videos from same scene from three different camera. The footage is taken so cameras are in row and see little bit each others view. I want to get same video properties to side tracks as the center on has. So that color and light are pretty much same in all tracks. So that I can just pan and zoom the wide view. Is there any automation available for this task? At least I couldn't figure out it. It wold be so nice if I was able to say Cinelerra: Look the upper track's left side of video and compare it this track's right side and adjust this track's properties so that they are same. Thank you Fixing cameras automation by hand is huge task. Best regards, Hannu Vuolasaho ___ Cinelerra mailing list Cinelerra@skolelinux.no https://init.linpro.no/mailman/skolelinux.no/listinfo/cinelerra
[CinCV] DVGrab with monitoring
Hi! Is there tool which can grab HDV (.m2t) like dvgrab and same time show the video? In my setup I would like to put laptop and monitor from larger screen while capturing data to HDD. I believe Kino does this however it's only DV compatible, not HDV. I tried something like dvgrab |tee|mplayer split but no luck Any good ideas? best regards, Hannu Vuolasaho ___ Cinelerra mailing list Cinelerra@skolelinux.no https://init.linpro.no/mailman/skolelinux.no/listinfo/cinelerra
RE: [CinCV] capture card recomendation
From: da...@kosmosisland.com To: cinelerra@skolelinux.no Subject: Re: [CinCV] capture card recomendation CC: e...@billauer.co.il Date: Thu, 13 Jan 2011 08:02:25 -0800 That sounds like a great idea. I have no experience with digital8. Do they produce compressed output? If so, can I assume the quality of the compression is good? I presume it would be mpeg2. Currently my capture card captures MJPEG which works nicely with Cinelerra. Digital8 is like DV tape, but casette is different. You can capture it with dvgrab and get .dv files. Hi8 is same casette but it is analogical video. Hannu Vuolasaho
RE: [CinCV] need clarification of user-manual comment
From: tempest...@yahoo.com Subject: Re: [CinCV] need clarification of user-manual comment To: cinelerra@skolelinux.no Date: Thu, 7 Oct 2010 06:31:39 -0700 I'm working with 720p and 480p vertical but want to maintain close to a 16:9 aspect. 720p works ok at 1280x720 but 480 need 854 horizontal to achieve the correct aspect...I end up scaling to 848x480 to maintain the divisible by 16 constraint...that is acceptable... Also. I found that exporting to ogg from 1440x1080 m2t file from HDV dvgrab source doesn't work like you expect. On the bottom there was green stripe. I fixed this setting resolution to 1072. Ogg requires resolution of multitude of 16. and aspect was off by less than 1 %. Not very good solution but first that came in to my mind. Hannu Vuolasaho
[CinCV] -prefer-non-pic
_ News, entertainment and everything you care about at Live.com. Get it now! http://www.live.com/getstarted.aspx ___ Cinelerra mailing list Cinelerra@skolelinux.no https://init.linpro.no/mailman/skolelinux.no/listinfo/cinelerra
RE: [CinCV] Video effect - watermark??
From: jdetw...@earthlink.net Has anyone found a Cinelerra (or, even, gimp) technique that makes this visual effect? (Even if I can't do it on moving video, it would be worth adding it to my still image before pasting into the video track.) I did 726x576 png file which had logo on it. The background was then put transparent. Then I added another video track and put it there. The video was on lower track. With fade slider I set the opacity. To get this to work you need color format with alpha channel like RGBA The results: http://www.youtube.com/IlotulitusOy If you use video on other track it blends them and it is quite good transition sometimes. Hannu Vuolasaho _ Explore the seven wonders of the world http://search.msn.com/results.aspx?q=7+wonders+worldmkt=en-USform=QBRE
RE: [CinCV] Modeline for PAL etc
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: cinelerra@skolelinux.no; [EMAIL PROTECTED]; [EMAIL PROTECTED] Subject: [CinCV] Modeline for PAL etc Date: Thu, 9 Oct 2008 17:42:29 +0200 I'm searching for a modeline/xrandr spell to turn my laptop video (intel GM965/GL960) out to native PAL (interlaced). First of all, I don't believe you want to run your laptop LCD with 720x576i mode. The LCD is always progressive and it would look terrible even you didn't scale it to full screen. And LCD refresh rate is something else than 50Hz. And LCD displays look good only when running in native resolution. Second thing is that TV-out usually generates itself right timings and interlaced image. How it is enabled depends your HW, setup and what you want. With nvidia we have twinview and X comes with xinerama and then we have xrandr. So to get real PAL, NTSC or whatever video format is wanted is done with HW. I believe you have to just use Option lines enable the TV-out. And xorg.conf can also tell the display be 720x576 as eextended or scale the desktop or just take part of the screen. I used to have rectangle in background image which was sent to TV-out :) But really good X configuration help site would be great. Now that you are really going to learn the configuration of X, you should make it thoroughly :) If you are good with html, you could create xorg.conf generator which asks resolutions and order of monitors and which driver to use and then create simple xorg.conf with different server layouts. Like xinerama, mirror, TV-out as extended desktop and TV-out as part of desktop, TV-out as mirror of desktop. Just my two (Euro) cents Hannu Vuolasaho _ Connect to the next generation of MSN Messenger http://imagine-msn.com/messenger/launch80/default.aspx?locale=en-ussource=wlmailtagline ___ Cinelerra mailing list Cinelerra@skolelinux.no https://init.linpro.no/mailman/skolelinux.no/listinfo/cinelerra
RE: [CinCV] Synchronization problem
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Subject: Re: [CinCV] Synchronization problem To: cinelerra@skolelinux.no Date: Tue, 16 Sep 2008 01:45:23 +0200 Inge en Wouter Kok wrote: What is it that I'm doing wrong? Most likely, you're doing nothing wrong. Cinelerra has an A/V sync issue. Or you might have done it somewhere. It is really easy to lose sync while editing and when you disarm audio or video of track and move, cut, add or do anything. Put camera recording and clap your hands in three meters away from it and repat it whitout stopping recording after half hour. The sound should reach one millisec after video... I think the sync problems are everywhere. My camera should take 48000 samples in second. In winter when tape just gets out of reel to another it is near 47300 and on hot summer day it's near 48100. Fireworks are so good to pick up those errors. I sync in the beginning to mortar flames and sounds and adjust sample rate so that it is correct also in the end. Then I put the audio to it's original place. It's stupid when there's explosion in sky and the audio comes same time. In real life you can see the report to rise and blast. After that there's time put smile on your face before the sound comes. Hannu Vuolasaho _ Discover the new Windows Vista http://search.msn.com/results.aspx?q=windows+vistamkt=en-USform=QBRE ___ Cinelerra mailing list Cinelerra@skolelinux.no https://init.linpro.no/mailman/skolelinux.no/listinfo/cinelerra
RE: [CinCVS] Cin-3
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: cinelerra@skolelinux.no Subject: Re: [CinCVS] Cin-3 Date: Tue, 29 Jan 2008 07:44:28 +0100 Theoretically a nice Idea, but remember that a NLE can have very complex, custom Widgets, like the Timeline and Previews, these should ideally be written only once, putting together some buttons and basic widgets in different Toolkits is never a Problem. Just one stupid question. What is wrong with current GUI? It does its job very well. and is far more intuitive than kino or iFilm in OsX Cinelerra has feeling that this program is meant to work and if you think you can't do something you just trying it doing wrong. Like terminal with black backround and lightgrey text :) Hannu Vuolasaho _ Express yourself instantly with MSN Messenger! Download today it's FREE! http://messenger.msn.click-url.com/go/onm00200471ave/direct/01/ ___ Cinelerra mailing list Cinelerra@skolelinux.no https://init.linpro.no/mailman/skolelinux.no/listinfo/cinelerra
RE: [CinCVS] How do you make DVDs?
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Subject: Re: [CinCVS] How do you make DVDs? To: cinelerra@skolelinux.no Date: Sat, 8 Dec 2007 14:25:17 -0800 --- Hannu Vuolasaho [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Title 1 chapter 1 scene 1 of the show chapter 2 scene 2 of the show chapter 20 scene 20 of the show Title 2 chapter 1 interview 1 chapter 2 interview 2 Title 3 chapter 1 behind the scenes Is there any easy way to get this kind of structure in DVD? Qdvdauthor should do the job for you. I never learned use that program. Or atleast not yet. I felt it someway messy. I'll give it a try on next project. However, the description of the menu you provided is incomple. Do you want buttons to go directly to chapters? or you simply what thee titles with chapeters in them? Actually I did want scene selection but I didn't kow how to do it so I just drop it. My solution was to find some examples from the net and read man pages and modify them. Lot of command line processing. and trial and errors. And if my CPU could speak, it would whine about same jobs all the time :) Anyway I have now the poster of the show and underneath there is two choises. The show and teaser. Show has chapters beginning at every scene. DVD player returns back menu after played title. Oh and most proud I'm the 7 second audio loop. It should at leas get watcher to choose what to watch. So irritating popsong. I want to thank you guys for your pointers. I checked those aplications and documentations and I feel I save time because of you. And I think I've learnt something. And next project will be more beautiful and pro looking. Maybe I'll share the Valencia 2007 Las Fallas fireworks with you :) The editing wont be most important thing in that video :) Never could understand how to use DVDStyler though... And first tool which was recomended by my friend for DVD creation was Pinnacle. I tried and wished myself back home to my slow PC (Dualcore Opteron). School has harder hardware for the rendering job. I don't understand why it is so hard to support RAW, type 1 and type2 DV... Hannu Vuolasaho _ News, entertainment and everything you care about at Live.com. Get it now! http://www.live.com/getstarted.aspx
[CinCVS] How do you make DVDs?
Hi! I have this small problem. In Cinelerras manual there is easy to follow instructions to make DVD. On track has been enough for me. I have this time edited the show ready and exported it to RAW DV. interviews and bhind of scenes are different RAW DV clips. Now I want to split it to chapters and burn it to DVD. I've been reading different howtos trough but nothing answered my problem. Title 1 chapter 1 scene 1 of the show chapter 2 scene 2 of the show chapter 20 scene 20 of the show Title 2 chapter 1 interview 1 chapter 2 interview 2 Title 3 chapter 1 behind the scenes Is there any easy way to get this kind of structure in DVD? _ Explore the seven wonders of the world http://search.msn.com/results.aspx?q=7+wonders+worldmkt=en-USform=QBRE
[CinCVS] Irritating freezing
Hello! I just compiled fresh Cinelerra on Ubuntu with dual core Opteron. And there is one problem. If I select clip from resources and go to viewer and start playback it goes well. But if I hit stop, pause or use the slider to search clip I lose control. Depending which videoplayback driver I get frozen image in viewer (X11-GL) or the viedo continues playback. Anyway the volume bars keep working and timecounter goes on. After a while I can't do anything with viewer. Main program- Window - Show viewer won't hide it. Same thing with moving from resources to track and using compositor. My material is RAW DV. I also tried with M2T HDV material. I've tried to tweak with display properties. I also tried with some oher clips. Some cellphone avi clips work perfectly while normal Wav file causes viewer freezing. Any help would be nice even how to write better bug report. With this info it's hard to start guessing what went wrong. So has anyone any ideas? Terminal has these last lines, which seems to be quite OK, or am I wrong. abf 00:00:00.00 2000-00-00 00:00:00 7b 87 04 16 36/36 abf 00:00:00.00 2000-00-00 00:00:00 7b 87 05 16 36/36 abf 00:00:00.00 2000-00-00 00:00:00 7b 87 06 16 36/36 # audio block/sample failure for 5 blocks, 180 samples of 1920 BRenderThread::start 1 map=6948 equivalent=6948 brender_start=6948 result=6948 end=6948 RenderFarmClientThread::run: Session finished. BRenderThread::start 1 map=6948 equivalent=6948 brender_start=6948 result=6948 end=6948 RenderFarmClientThread::run: Session finished. BRenderThread::start 1 map=6948 equivalent=6948 brender_start=6948 result=6948 end=6948 RenderFarmClientThread::run: Session finished. Hannu Vuolasaho _ Invite your mail contacts to join your friends list with Windows Live Spaces. It's easy! http://spaces.live.com/spacesapi.aspx?wx_action=createwx_url=/friends.aspxmkt=en-us
RE: [CinCVS] Irritating freezing
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: cinelerra@skolelinux.no Subject: Re: [CinCVS] Irritating freezing Date: Thu, 20 Sep 2007 03:02:42 +0200 Preferences - Alsa Settings - check Playback locks up Oh! stupid me. And I thought it was video problem and I was googling totally wrong words. Now it's much better altough playback continues about one sec or something after pressing stop. But anyway as Johannes has it said well Fri, 25 Nov 2005 21:00:05 +0100 it is a workaround so there is no need for whining. I'm happy thet I can use Cinelerra. Dear user, if, after you have pressed the stop button to stop playback, you find out that cinelerra does not stop the timeline and audio playback (but _does_ stop video playback) and the UI does not respond anymore properly, you can enable this checkbox, and audio and timeline will stop the next time you stop playback. The checkbox enables a workaround for some ALSA drivers that make problems.--- Hannu Vuolasaho _ Invite your mail contacts to join your friends list with Windows Live Spaces. It's easy! http://spaces.live.com/spacesapi.aspx?wx_action=createwx_url=/friends.aspxmkt=en-us
Re: [CinCVS] HDV 1440x1080 and 1920x1080 display ratio
When camera is operating, the EIP generates uncompressed 1440x1080i with a 4:2:2 color space. Digital 4:2:2 data are output via the HDMI port, while 4:2:2 analog is output via component out. Therefore you can record 4.2:2 live HD cideo from the camera without MPEG-2 compression. portable disk like the Sony HVR-DR60 HDV Hard Disk Recorder. I looked through the menues on FX7, but I wasn't able to discover anything related to optional hard disk recording, though I guess it will work as well as for V1. This is second hand information because my HDV camera is still in the shop. I'm waiting for 1080p :) Anyway. there is program called mpegrab or similar which can grab trough firewire the uncompressed video. The need of mpegcompression comes from the DV-media which can't handle the stream without it. I've seen this work with my friend when he shot a scene Sony Vaio in his pocket grabbing the scene. He is real gear geek. Or am I now giving totally wrong advices? The HDMI confuses me a bit. The CityDisk (the second link in my inital post above) is also claimed to be able to record in DV format at the same time as HDV is recorded on If you are playing a 1080i HDV tape, the 4:2:0 MPEG-2 is decoded and chroma up-scaled to a 4:2:2. The HDMI chip downscales 1440 to 1280 while it up-scales 540 to 720. The result is 720p which is output via HDMI. Be sure to check the firmware of Citydisk. Some work, some don't. I believe this information can be digged from various webforums. Hannu Vuolasaho _ More photos, more messages, more storageget 2GB with Windows Live Hotmail. http://imagine-windowslive.com/hotmail/?locale=en-usocid=TXT_TAGHM_migration_HM_mini_2G_0507 ___ Cinelerra mailing list Cinelerra@skolelinux.no https://init.linpro.no/mailman/skolelinux.no/listinfo/cinelerra
RE: [CinCVS] Launch error
Recently installed Cinelerra on Ubuntu edgy launches OK, but always displays this notice first: You can do it as it says. Before launching Cinelerra become root and tell kernel to increase shmmax. [EMAIL PROTECTED]:~$ sudo su [EMAIL PROTECTED]:/home/vuolasah# echo 0x7fff /proc/sys/kernel/shmmax Original sudo echo didn't work for me. I' mostly running edgy too. For Cinerella I use Dynebolic CD which has no distractions like Ubuntu has. I'm also curious. Where should I put it in initscript if I always want to use 0x7fff as shmmax? I don't know what it means, but can I avoid having to do this everytime I launch cinerella ?+ And the meaning of the error is that cinelerra will unable to allocate large portion of shared memory Obviously that is set by default to 2GB so that nothing shouldn't get wild and allocate more than it is capable of handling. It's the border of 32bit integer. Also increasing the shmmax you decrease maximum number of different applications if they all allocate a lot of memory. Hannu Vuolasaho _ Don't just search. Find. Check out the new MSN Search! http://search.msn.com/ ___ Cinelerra mailing list Cinelerra@skolelinux.no https://init.linpro.no/mailman/skolelinux.no/listinfo/cinelerra
[CinCVS] No compilation today :(
Hi everyone! I tried to compile cinelerra and x264 today. cinerella is in revision 1006 and x264 in revision 235 according to svn info I'm using Ubuntu 6.10 (Edgy) and I've tried many different configure options. X264 is compiled --enable-pic and cinerella just normal ./configure. Harware is AMD Opteron dualcore and naturally 64-bit I also tried compile cinelerra --with-mmx --with-3dnow --without-pic with no success errors we're different and I come back to them if you want but now I want something for editing. make ends with error in ld which finds undefined symbols to x264 Hannu Vuolasaho g++ -D_LARGEFILE_SOURCE -D_LARGEFILE64_SOURCE -D_FILE_OFFSET_BITS=64 -DHAVE_FIREWIRE -DHAVE_ESOUND -DHAVE_ALSA -DHAVE_OSS -I/usr/include/mjpegtools -I/usr/include/mjpegtools/mpeg2enc -I/usr/include/mjpegtools/mplex -I/usr/include/OpenEXR -I../quicktime/ffmpeg/libavcodec -DPLUGIN_DIR=\/usr/local/lib/cinelerra\ -g -O2 -o .libs/cinelerra aattachmentpoint.o aautomation.o aboutprefs.o adeviceprefs.o aedit.o aedits.o amodule.o apatchgui.o apluginarray.o aplugin.o apluginset.o arender.o asset.o assetedit.o assetpopup.o assetremove.o assets.o atrack.o attachmentpoint.o audioalsa.o audiocine.o audiodevice.o audiodvb.o audioesound.o audioidevice.o audioodevice.o audiooss.o auto.o autoconf.o automation.o autos.o awindow.o awindowgui.o awindowmenu.o batch.o batchrender.o bitspopup.o brender.o browsebutton.o byteorderpopup.o cache.o cachebase.o canvas.o canvastools.o channel.o channeldb.o channeledit.o channelpicker.o chantables.o clipedit.o commonrender.o confirmquit.o confirmsave.o cpanel.o cplayback.o ctimebar.o ctracking.o cursor.o cwindow.o cwindowgui.o cwindowtool.o dcoffset.o dcraw.o deleteallindexes.o devicedvbinput.o drivesync.o dvbtune.o edit.o edithandles.o editpanel.o editpopup.o edits.o edl.o edlsession.o exportedl.o fadeengine.o ffmpeg.o fileac3.o fileavi.o filebaseaudio.o filebase.o filebaseima4.o filebaseulaw.o file.o filecr2.o filedv.o fileogg.o fileexr.o fileformat.o filejpeg.o filelist.o filemov.o filempeg.o filepng.o filesndfile.o filetga.o filethread.o filetiff.o filevorbis.o filexml.o fileyuv.o floatauto.o floatautos.o formatcheck.o formatpopup.o formatpresets.o formattools.o framecache.o garbage.o gwindow.o gwindowgui.o indexfile.o indexthread.o intauto.o intautos.o interfaceprefs.o keyframe.o keyframehandles.o keyframepopup.o keyframes.o labeledit.o labelnavigate.o labels.o levelwindow.o levelwindowgui.o loadbalance.o loadfile.o loadmode.o localsession.o main.o mainclock.o maincursor.o mainerror.o mainindexes.o mainmenu.o mainprogress.o mainsession.o mainundo.o manualgoto.o maskauto.o maskautos.o maskengine.o mbuttons.o menuaeffects.o menueffects.o menuveffects.o meterpanel.o module.o mtimebar.o mwindow.o mwindowedit.o mwindowgui.o mwindowmove.o new.o newfolder.o overlayframe.o packagedispatcher.o packagerenderer.o packagingengine.o panauto.o panautos.o patchbay.o patchgui.o performanceprefs.o picture.o pipe.o playabletracks.o playback3d.o playbackconfig.o playbackengine.o playbackprefs.o playtransport.o pluginaclient.o pluginaclientlad.o pluginarray.o pluginautos.o plugin.o pluginclient.o plugindialog.o pluginpopup.o pluginserver.o pluginset.o plugintclient.o plugintoggles.o pluginvclient.o preferences.o preferencesthread.o question.o quit.o recconfirmdelete.o recordableatracks.o recordablevtracks.o recordaudio.o record.o recordconfig.o recordgui.o recordlabel.o recordmonitor.o recordprefs.o recordthread.o recordtransport.o recordvideo.o recordwindow.o removethread.o render.o renderengine.o renderfarm.o renderfarmclient.o renderprofiles.o resample.o resizetrackthread.o resourcepixmap.o resourcethread.o samplescroll.o savefile.o setformat.o sharedlocation.o shmemory.o sighandler.o splashgui.o statusbar.o theme.o threadexec.o threadfork.o threadindexer.o threadloader.o timebar.o timeentry.o tipwindow.o track.o trackcanvas.o tracking.o tracks.o trackscroll.o tracksedit.o transition.o transitionhandles.o transitionpopup.o transportque.o tunerserver.o undostackitem.o vattachmentpoint.o vautomation.o vdevicebase.o vdevicebuz.o vdevicedvb.o vdeviceprefs.o vdevicev4l.o vdevicev4l2.o vdevicev4l2jpeg.o vdevicex11.o vedit.o vedits.o videodevice.o viewmenu.o virtualaconsole.o virtualanode.o virtualconsole.o virtualnode.o virtualvconsole.o virtualvnode.o vmodule.o vpatchgui.o vplayback.o vpluginarray.o vplugin.o vpluginset.o vrender.o vtimebar.o vtrack.o vtracking.o vwindow.o vwindowgui.o wavecache.o yuvstream.o zoombar.o zoompanel.o audio1394.o avc1394control.o avc1394transport.o device1394input.o device1394output.o iec61883input.o iec61883output.o vdevice1394.o -Wl,--export-dynamic data/libimagedata.a ../mpeg2enc/.libs/libmpeg2enc.a ../toolame-02l/.libs/libtoolame.a ../quicktime/.libs/libquicktimehv.so ../guicast/.libs/libguicast.so ../libmpeg3/.libs/libmpeg3hv.so /usr/lib/libvorbisenc.so /usr/lib/libvorbisfile.so /usr/lib/libvorbis.so /usr
Re: [CinCVS] No compilation today :(
From: Johannes Sixt [EMAIL PROTECTED] Reply-To: cinelerra@skolelinux.no To: cinelerra@skolelinux.no CC: Hannu Vuolasaho [EMAIL PROTECTED] Subject: Re: [CinCVS] No compilation today :( On Wednesday 28 March 2007 16:34, Hannu Vuolasaho wrote: ../quicktime/.libs/libquicktimehv.so: undefined reference to `x264_pixel_satd_16x8_ssse3' (etc) You compiled x264 yourself. You better find out which options you need so that the missing functions are compiled into libx264. Hint: It must have something to do with ssse3 ;) No? Yes. Ubuntu comes with four months old version. Anyway I compiled everything possible like --with-pic --with-shared --with-debug and everything I could. Then I got all same errors, but it came to /usr/local/lib/libx264.so.54 and when I try nm /usr/local/lib/libx264.so.54 nm: /usr/local/lib/libx264.so.54: no symbols My limited skills found just their limit. How do I continue now for hunting lost symbols? Hannu Vuolasaho _ Express yourself instantly with MSN Messenger! Download today it's FREE! http://messenger.msn.click-url.com/go/onm00200471ave/direct/01/ ___ Cinelerra mailing list Cinelerra@skolelinux.no https://init.linpro.no/mailman/skolelinux.no/listinfo/cinelerra
