[CinCVS] Transitions between two loaded files.
Hi, I'm having a bit of trouble with transitions between two files. As I finally figured out, I have to remove 1 second at the end of first track and then drop the transition effect. Otherwise the first video is frozen in the transition. But what bothers me, is that it is very inconvenient to do. I have to do first a delete edits an then do transition. I think it is one of most basic usage scenarios. Can't it be done somehow easier? Thanks for help, Marcin Okraszewski P.S. I've read at least 10 times the section about transitions in thedocumentation (http://cv.cinelerra.org/docs/split_manual_en/cinelerra_cv_manual_en_17.html). While it works perfectly with the described example, when there is a part cut out, it does not really help much with the last frozen frame problem. The sentences the first asset needs to have enough data after the edit point to fill the transition into the second edit and It is a common error to put a dissolve transition just after the last frame of an asset. didn't really help me to understand what to do to avoid the frozen frame. Just one sentence like To solve the problem, remove trailing second from first asset, and then apply transition. I think would help me an others as well. ___ Cinelerra mailing list Cinelerra@skolelinux.no https://init.linpro.no/mailman/skolelinux.no/listinfo/cinelerra
Re: [CinCVS] Transitions between two loaded files.
On Sat, 02 Feb 2008 15:22:33 +0100, Marcin Okraszewski [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Hi, I'm having a bit of trouble with transitions between two files. As I finally figured out, I have to remove 1 second at the end of first track and then drop the transition effect. Otherwise the first video is frozen in the transition. But what bothers me, is that it is very inconvenient to do. I have to do first a delete edits an then do transition. I think it is one of most basic usage scenarios. Can't it be done somehow easier? Not with the way Cinelerra currently works... ...which I personally think is a little wrong. The way _I_ would consider natural is not that the transition _begins_ at the edit point, but that it would be _centered_ at the edit point. However, that would not suit your usecase. For you, it would be convenient if the transition _ended_ at the edit point. My feature suggestion to appease all parties would be to let transitions have three allowed alignment, chosen by the user: 1. Start at the cut point 2. Center around the cut point (50/50 at the edit point) 3. End at the cut point If the timeline view is far zoomed out, it will be hard to do this reliably with the mouse, though. Use modifier keys and a custom cursor or transition sub-icon to indicate the alignment, perhaps? Other suggestions? I, for one, would like this feature. -- Herman Robak ___ Cinelerra mailing list Cinelerra@skolelinux.no https://init.linpro.no/mailman/skolelinux.no/listinfo/cinelerra
Re: [CinCVS] Transitions between two loaded files.
Not with the way Cinelerra currently works... Bad news :( So is there maybe other prefered model of work, rather than with separate files? My feature suggestion to appease all parties would be to let transitions have three allowed alignment, chosen by the user: 1. Start at the cut point 2. Center around the cut point (50/50 at the edit point) 3. End at the cut point Sounds good for me. Though maybe there could be like auto option which would slide aligment depending on how much material on either side it has available. If it as material availabe on both sides, it takes center. Then, if there is not enough of it, it slides it to have the transition without frozen frames. Marcin ___ Cinelerra mailing list Cinelerra@skolelinux.no https://init.linpro.no/mailman/skolelinux.no/listinfo/cinelerra
Re: [CinCVS] Transitions between two loaded files.
On Sat, 2 Feb 2008, Herman Robak wrote: However, that would not suit your usecase. For you, it would be convenient if the transition _ended_ at the edit point. When I'm syncing the transitions to music I normally want the start of the transition to occur on the beat, so I hope that the current behaviour will remain available even if there's an option created for something else. I think what the original poster is missing is that while a transition is occurring, you are really displaying both clips on the screen at once. In effect there are two tracks even if it only shows on the timeline as one, and the clips must overlap. There's no getting around the fact that the source material must include frames past the point where the transition starts. If you try to do transitions from the very end of one clip to the very start of another, then of course you're going to have problems and there's not much the system can really do about it; you're saying Display this clip all the way to the last frame, and then keep displaying it for one second more, but oh no, don't you dare freeze the frame during that time! Is it supposed to create frames from thin air? Automatically reducing the clip's length by the length of the transition to create the overlap may help, but only if you don't care about the overall length of the clip; it would mean that two one-minute clips combine to be 1:59 in length. When doing music sync I *do* care about the overall length, so clipping a second off would be extremely inconvenient. I think it is the usual expected case that the clip you put on the timeline won't be an entire video file up to the last frame - that's not how video editing is normally done. Remember that an edit isn't a file, it's a chunk selected from a file. Normally one would have some extra frames on either side (the director says Lights, camera, action, the clapboard claps, the actors do their thing, the director says cut, and you only use the bit in the middle) and so it shouldn't be the default to expect that the clip will go all the way up to the last frame of the source footage. If things were designed such that transitions went between tracks instead of between edits on the same track, that might make it a lot easier to understand. I think it would mean an architectural change, though. -- Matthew Skala [EMAIL PROTECTED]Embrace and defend. http://ansuz.sooke.bc.ca/ ___ Cinelerra mailing list Cinelerra@skolelinux.no https://init.linpro.no/mailman/skolelinux.no/listinfo/cinelerra
Re: [CinCVS] Transitions between two loaded files.
On Sat, 2008-02-02 at 10:11 -0500, [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: If things were designed such that transitions went between tracks instead of between edits on the same track, that might make it a lot easier to understand. If it is for understanding, cross fading two clips overlapping on two separate tracks using fade curves can help. Or just looking carefully at the cross fade symbol. Raffaella ___ Cinelerra mailing list Cinelerra@skolelinux.no https://init.linpro.no/mailman/skolelinux.no/listinfo/cinelerra
Re: [CinCVS] Transitions between two loaded files.
This is what I suppose is the difference between professional and home use. Though, I've tried quite several video editing tools, and none of them freeze the last frame by default if the video wasn't cut. OK, I did not try Adobe Premier, which probably targets the same audience as Cinelerra. Anyway, the configurable behaviour, as described by Herman, would probably satisfy all needs. Marcin On 2/2/08, [EMAIL PROTECTED] [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: On Sat, 2 Feb 2008, Herman Robak wrote: However, that would not suit your usecase. For you, it would be convenient if the transition _ended_ at the edit point. When I'm syncing the transitions to music I normally want the start of the transition to occur on the beat, so I hope that the current behaviour will remain available even if there's an option created for something else. I think what the original poster is missing is that while a transition is occurring, you are really displaying both clips on the screen at once. In effect there are two tracks even if it only shows on the timeline as one, and the clips must overlap. There's no getting around the fact that the source material must include frames past the point where the transition starts. If you try to do transitions from the very end of one clip to the very start of another, then of course you're going to have problems and there's not much the system can really do about it; you're saying Display this clip all the way to the last frame, and then keep displaying it for one second more, but oh no, don't you dare freeze the frame during that time! Is it supposed to create frames from thin air? Automatically reducing the clip's length by the length of the transition to create the overlap may help, but only if you don't care about the overall length of the clip; it would mean that two one-minute clips combine to be 1:59 in length. When doing music sync I *do* care about the overall length, so clipping a second off would be extremely inconvenient. I think it is the usual expected case that the clip you put on the timeline won't be an entire video file up to the last frame - that's not how video editing is normally done. Remember that an edit isn't a file, it's a chunk selected from a file. Normally one would have some extra frames on either side (the director says Lights, camera, action, the clapboard claps, the actors do their thing, the director says cut, and you only use the bit in the middle) and so it shouldn't be the default to expect that the clip will go all the way up to the last frame of the source footage. If things were designed such that transitions went between tracks instead of between edits on the same track, that might make it a lot easier to understand. I think it would mean an architectural change, though. -- Matthew Skala [EMAIL PROTECTED]Embrace and defend. http://ansuz.sooke.bc.ca/ ___ Cinelerra mailing list Cinelerra@skolelinux.no https://init.linpro.no/mailman/skolelinux.no/listinfo/cinelerra ___ Cinelerra mailing list Cinelerra@skolelinux.no https://init.linpro.no/mailman/skolelinux.no/listinfo/cinelerra
Re: [CinCVS] Transitions between two loaded files.
On Sat, 02 Feb 2008 16:11:46 +0100, [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: On Sat, 2 Feb 2008, Herman Robak wrote: However, that would not suit your usecase. For you, it would be convenient if the transition _ended_ at the edit point. When I'm syncing the transitions to music I normally want the start of the transition to occur on the beat, so I hope that the current behaviour will remain available even if there's an option created for something else. I think what the original poster is missing is that while a transition is occurring, you are really displaying both clips on the screen at once. In effect there are two tracks even if it only shows on the timeline as one, and the clips must overlap. In my opinion, as user should not have to understand this in order to use transitions. My rationale for proposing alternative behaviours on the transition effect is that such a common effect should be immediately usable to naive and lazy users. The align-on-end approach will always work without surprises, and will be the safest way for the user who has lax requirements on the timing: A user who just drops uncut clips on the timeline, and puts transitions between them. My suggested before-mid-after snapping is not a truly general feature. For ultimate flexibility a transition should be freely moveable. After all, moving the _edit_ point to adjust a transition is not The Right Thing. You may have found an edit point that is well timed without a transition, and that information should be preserved. But I'm not sure how useable a freely slideable transition would be. -- Herman Robak ___ Cinelerra mailing list Cinelerra@skolelinux.no https://init.linpro.no/mailman/skolelinux.no/listinfo/cinelerra
Re: [CinCVS] Transitions between two loaded files.
On Sat, 02 Feb 2008 16:01:41 +0100, Marcin Okraszewski [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: My feature suggestion to appease all parties would be to let transitions have three allowed alignment, chosen by the user: 1. Start at the cut point 2. Center around the cut point (50/50 at the edit point) 3. End at the cut point Sounds good for me. Though maybe there could be like auto option which would slide aligment depending on how much material on either side it has available. If it as material availabe on both sides, it takes center. Then, if there is not enough of it, it slides it to have the transition without frozen frames. Clever, but fraught with surprises. The user will have to know about what is going on, or not care about the timing and alignment. -- Herman Robak ___ Cinelerra mailing list Cinelerra@skolelinux.no https://init.linpro.no/mailman/skolelinux.no/listinfo/cinelerra
Re: [CinCVS] Transitions between two loaded files.
-BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE- Hash: SHA1 Herman Robak schrieb: My suggested before-mid-after snapping is not a truly general feature. For ultimate flexibility a transition should be freely moveable. After all, moving the _edit_ point to adjust a transition is not The Right Thing. You may have found an edit point that is well timed without a transition, and that information should be preserved. thanks Herman for this proposal. I've noted it for Cin-3 and will provide the necessary infrastructure. - -- Hermann V. -BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE- Version: GnuPG v1.4.6 (GNU/Linux) Comment: Using GnuPG with Mozilla - http://enigmail.mozdev.org iD8DBQFHpK0GZbZrB6HelLIRAuPoAKCKexnrBeX0C0Z3IbhZ3cDYqSBEwgCbBklh 5Lz+5OD/wDCFjY5rL18xzwI= =nzyo -END PGP SIGNATURE- ___ Cinelerra mailing list Cinelerra@skolelinux.no https://init.linpro.no/mailman/skolelinux.no/listinfo/cinelerra
[CinCVS] Transitions between two loaded files.
Hi, I'm having a bit of trouble with transitions between two files. As I finally figured out, I have to remove 1 second at the end of first track and then drop the transition effect. Otherwise the first video is frozen in the transition. But what bothers me, is that it is very inconvenient to do. I have to do first a delete edits an then do transition. I think it is one of most basic usage scenarios. Can't it be done somehow easier? Thanks for help, Marcin Okraszewski P.S. I've read at least 10 times the section about transitions in the documentation (http://cv.cinelerra.org/docs/split_manual_en/cinelerra_cv_manual_en_17.html). While it works perfectly with the described example, when there is a part cut out, it does not really help much with the last frozen frame problem. The sentences the first asset needs to have enough data after the edit point to fill the transition into the second edit and It is a common error to put a dissolve transition just after the last frame of an asset. didn't really help me to understand what to do to avoid the frozen frame. Just one sentence like To solve the problem, remove trailing second from first asset, and then apply transition. I think would help others too. ___ Cinelerra mailing list Cinelerra@skolelinux.no https://init.linpro.no/mailman/skolelinux.no/listinfo/cinelerra
