RE: All positions are valid - Cisco Certs Becoming Paper CCXX
Let me ask a question relating to this topic. I'm only looking for opinions, not voicing one, so please hold back the flames =) What would a person be worth (dollar terms) if they have 1 year working in an entry/1st level NOC monitoring position, and they have attained their CCIE? Will they have shown enough to move into a 3rd level position, or will they just be a highly decorated 1st level support guy? From the job ads I see, it seems like experience of 3-5+ years is the requirement. The recruitment agencies will weed out people using this as one of their first criteria, and use CCIE as a desirable requirement. So what does that mean? Does that mean the person with the CCIE and 1 year experience would have to sit tight, and wait a couple more years? Albert -Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]]On Behalf Of EA LOUIE Sent: Wednesday, 21 March 2001 7:20 To: Allen May; [EMAIL PROTECTED] Cc: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Subject: Re: All positions are valid - Cisco Certs Becoming Paper CCXX No way, Allen... you already cashed it in about 15 messages ago on this thread - no fair cashing in twice ;-) and I actually think this has been a healthy thread. There seem to be these camps, from what I've read: 1. Certs add value regardless of a person's experience in industry - it's a willingness to learn. 2. Experience adds value and meaning to the Certs - it's an enhancement to your experience and something that is in written recognizable form. 3. Certs get your foot into the otherwise closed, air-tight door - it's an indication that the person is trained and knowledgeable to some extent on the techonology, and therefore less risky to hire than a non-certified (possibly experienced) person Thank goodness no one has presented the argument that Certs are a bad thing ;-) All of the positions have validity. The original poster was concerned about VALUE DILUTION of the certs with all the folks who were "jumping on the bandwagon" versus those of us who have been in the job and are uncertified and working on our certs. This raised the issue of "what's more important or holds more value... the Cert or experience?" And that's been tossed around alot in the past 20 or so messages. Value, fortunately, lies in the eyes of the hiring manager, so if you can convince HIM one way or another, whichever way you want to sway it, more power to you! (now I'm feeling like having a breath mint... hmmm.. what's up with that? "It's two, two, two mints in one") LOL... I should be so jolly after a one-hour rolling blackout at my office! -e- "Allen May" [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: I'm still ready to stop this thread and cash in on all the 2 cents thrown in. ;) Allen - Original Message - From: "Robert Padjen" [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: [EMAIL PROTECTED]; [EMAIL PROTECTED] Cc: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Tuesday, March 20, 2001 10:55 AM Subject: RE: Cisco Certs Becoming Paper CCXX I believe that there are two distinctions that should be made - and that you may disagree with. At least for the bachelors degree, the experience is just that - well beyond the actual academics. In addition, the focus of the GE portion of the program is to diversify - humanities, science, language, amongst others. This is one of the limitations to the Cisco (and other) certifications as the certifications present a myopic view. The second distinction is that I would contend neither represents more than the sum of its components, and that value is perceived. For example, if I graduated Stanford with a 2.1 GPA, as opposed to San Diego State with a 4.0, which school would be a better hire? Few resumes I see have the GPA, and, regardless, a lot of folks use the name... --- [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: This issue is turning thisgs upside down from point of view. I would like to tell you my opinion. If CCNA, NP, DA, DP and IE written are not worth then your Bachelors and Graduate studies worth the same. Just papers. I learn to configure a cisco router before knowing all the cisco stuff. I have a CCDA, CCNP and going for the complete set CCDA, CCNP and CCIE complete. I knew frame relay,atm, sna, dlsw, sdlc, ppp, ipx, switching, etc before taking any cisco course. I took all cisco traning path version 11.2 and just recently obtain my degrees and working for the big one. What will be your opinion Do I know something or I am just papers? You sould be carefull on your opinion about this things, all the knowledge since a long time ago has been paper, No one has achieve glory after years of practice and experience. I was thinking that you are trying to do the same that the shareowners are doing with the internet economy, you a
RE: All positions are valid - Cisco Certs Becoming Paper CCXX
i guess it'll really depends how you present yourself in the CV, and during the interview. . experience is good. but consider, if a young chap with only 1 years experience but he can show the interviewer he have the required knowledge and show he works with passion, do you think he'll get the job? -Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]]On Behalf Of Albert Lu Sent: Wednesday, March 21, 2001 4:44 PM To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Cc: [EMAIL PROTECTED]; EA LOUIE; Allen May Subject: RE: All positions are valid - Cisco Certs Becoming Paper CCXX Let me ask a question relating to this topic. I'm only looking for opinions, not voicing one, so please hold back the flames =) What would a person be worth (dollar terms) if they have 1 year working in an entry/1st level NOC monitoring position, and they have attained their CCIE? Will they have shown enough to move into a 3rd level position, or will they just be a highly decorated 1st level support guy? From the job ads I see, it seems like experience of 3-5+ years is the requirement. The recruitment agencies will weed out people using this as one of their first criteria, and use CCIE as a desirable requirement. So what does that mean? Does that mean the person with the CCIE and 1 year experience would have to sit tight, and wait a couple more years? Albert -Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]]On Behalf Of EA LOUIE Sent: Wednesday, 21 March 2001 7:20 To: Allen May; [EMAIL PROTECTED] Cc: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Subject: Re: All positions are valid - Cisco Certs Becoming Paper CCXX No way, Allen... you already cashed it in about 15 messages ago on this thread - no fair cashing in twice ;-) and I actually think this has been a healthy thread. There seem to be these camps, from what I've read: 1. Certs add value regardless of a person's experience in industry - it's a willingness to learn. 2. Experience adds value and meaning to the Certs - it's an enhancement to your experience and something that is in written recognizable form. 3. Certs get your foot into the otherwise closed, air-tight door - it's an indication that the person is trained and knowledgeable to some extent on the techonology, and therefore less risky to hire than a non-certified (possibly experienced) person Thank goodness no one has presented the argument that Certs are a bad thing ;-) All of the positions have validity. The original poster was concerned about VALUE DILUTION of the certs with all the folks who were "jumping on the bandwagon" versus those of us who have been in the job and are uncertified and working on our certs. This raised the issue of "what's more important or holds more value... the Cert or experience?" And that's been tossed around alot in the past 20 or so messages. Value, fortunately, lies in the eyes of the hiring manager, so if you can convince HIM one way or another, whichever way you want to sway it, more power to you! (now I'm feeling like having a breath mint... hmmm.. what's up with that? "It's two, two, two mints in one") LOL... I should be so jolly after a one-hour rolling blackout at my office! -e- "Allen May" [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: I'm still ready to stop this thread and cash in on all the 2 cents thrown in. ;) Allen - Original Message - From: "Robert Padjen" [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: [EMAIL PROTECTED]; [EMAIL PROTECTED] Cc: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Tuesday, March 20, 2001 10:55 AM Subject: RE: Cisco Certs Becoming Paper CCXX I believe that there are two distinctions that should be made - and that you may disagree with. At least for the bachelors degree, the experience is just that - well beyond the actual academics. In addition, the focus of the GE portion of the program is to diversify - humanities, science, language, amongst others. This is one of the limitations to the Cisco (and other) certifications as the certifications present a myopic view. The second distinction is that I would contend neither represents more than the sum of its components, and that value is perceived. For example, if I graduated Stanford with a 2.1 GPA, as opposed to San Diego State with a 4.0, which school would be a better hire? Few resumes I see have the GPA, and, regardless, a lot of folks use the name... --- [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: This issue is turning thisgs upside down from point of view. I would like to tell you my opinion. If CCNA, NP, DA, DP and IE written are not worth then your Bachelors and Graduate studies worth the same. Just papers. I learn to configure a cisco router before knowing all the cisco stuff. I have a CCDA, CCNP and going for the complete set CCDA, CCNP and CCIE complete. I knew frame relay,atm, sna, dlsw, sdlc, ppp, ipx, sw
RE: All positions are valid - Cisco Certs Becoming Paper CCXX
He probably wouldn't even make the interview room, because recruiters would have screened him out long ago. -Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]]On Behalf Of Lim Jit Cherng Sent: Wednesday, 21 March 2001 8:40 To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Cc: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Subject: RE: All positions are valid - Cisco Certs Becoming Paper CCXX i guess it'll really depends how you present yourself in the CV, and during the interview. . experience is good. but consider, if a young chap with only 1 years experience but he can show the interviewer he have the required knowledge and show he works with passion, do you think he'll get the job? -Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]]On Behalf Of Albert Lu Sent: Wednesday, March 21, 2001 4:44 PM To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Cc: [EMAIL PROTECTED]; EA LOUIE; Allen May Subject: RE: All positions are valid - Cisco Certs Becoming Paper CCXX Let me ask a question relating to this topic. I'm only looking for opinions, not voicing one, so please hold back the flames =) What would a person be worth (dollar terms) if they have 1 year working in an entry/1st level NOC monitoring position, and they have attained their CCIE? Will they have shown enough to move into a 3rd level position, or will they just be a highly decorated 1st level support guy? From the job ads I see, it seems like experience of 3-5+ years is the requirement. The recruitment agencies will weed out people using this as one of their first criteria, and use CCIE as a desirable requirement. So what does that mean? Does that mean the person with the CCIE and 1 year experience would have to sit tight, and wait a couple more years? Albert -Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]]On Behalf Of EA LOUIE Sent: Wednesday, 21 March 2001 7:20 To: Allen May; [EMAIL PROTECTED] Cc: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Subject: Re: All positions are valid - Cisco Certs Becoming Paper CCXX No way, Allen... you already cashed it in about 15 messages ago on this thread - no fair cashing in twice ;-) and I actually think this has been a healthy thread. There seem to be these camps, from what I've read: 1. Certs add value regardless of a person's experience in industry - it's a willingness to learn. 2. Experience adds value and meaning to the Certs - it's an enhancement to your experience and something that is in written recognizable form. 3. Certs get your foot into the otherwise closed, air-tight door - it's an indication that the person is trained and knowledgeable to some extent on the techonology, and therefore less risky to hire than a non-certified (possibly experienced) person Thank goodness no one has presented the argument that Certs are a bad thing ;-) All of the positions have validity. The original poster was concerned about VALUE DILUTION of the certs with all the folks who were "jumping on the bandwagon" versus those of us who have been in the job and are uncertified and working on our certs. This raised the issue of "what's more important or holds more value... the Cert or experience?" And that's been tossed around alot in the past 20 or so messages. Value, fortunately, lies in the eyes of the hiring manager, so if you can convince HIM one way or another, whichever way you want to sway it, more power to you! (now I'm feeling like having a breath mint... hmmm.. what's up with that? "It's two, two, two mints in one") LOL... I should be so jolly after a one-hour rolling blackout at my office! -e- "Allen May" [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: I'm still ready to stop this thread and cash in on all the 2 cents thrown in. ;) Allen - Original Message - From: "Robert Padjen" [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: [EMAIL PROTECTED]; [EMAIL PROTECTED] Cc: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Tuesday, March 20, 2001 10:55 AM Subject: RE: Cisco Certs Becoming Paper CCXX I believe that there are two distinctions that should be made - and that you may disagree with. At least for the bachelors degree, the experience is just that - well beyond the actual academics. In addition, the focus of the GE portion of the program is to diversify - humanities, science, language, amongst others. This is one of the limitations to the Cisco (and other) certifications as the certifications present a myopic view. The second distinction is that I would contend neither represents more than the sum of its components, and that value is perceived. For example, if I graduated Stanford with a 2.1 GPA, as opposed to San Diego State with a 4.0, which school would be a better hire? Few resumes I see have the GPA, and, regardless, a lot of folks use the name... --- [EMAIL PROTECTE
RE: All positions are valid - Cisco Certs Becoming Paper CCXX
I suppose that this depends on the particular company. Someone with approximately 1 year of experience and a CCIE means (because of the lab wait list) that the person completed their CCIE written with only 6-9 months of experience and the lab with about 1 year's worth. This person is either very bright, has a LOT of time and money for studying, or is lying about their CCIE status. If I were hiring and this resume came across my desk, it would certainly pique my interest. I'd first validate the CCIE number to make sure that the person isn't a liar, then I'd call them for an technical interview and see where they really stand technically. That is to say, did another CCIE hand-feed them the exam until they knew only enough to pass. If they were technically inept, or even technically average, I wouldn't offer them the job because this person would have obviously "cheated" to obtain their number and I don't want someone like that on my team. If the person were technically brilliant (or at least obviously above average), then I would offer them a position with a salary slightly less than their experienced CCIE peers, with a conditional raise if they prove within a year that they're capable of making "experienced" decisions as well as technically correct ones. Just my opinion... Craig At 07:44 PM 3/21/2001 +1100, you wrote: Let me ask a question relating to this topic. I'm only looking for opinions, not voicing one, so please hold back the flames =) What would a person be worth (dollar terms) if they have 1 year working in an entry/1st level NOC monitoring position, and they have attained their CCIE? Will they have shown enough to move into a 3rd level position, or will they just be a highly decorated 1st level support guy? From the job ads I see, it seems like experience of 3-5+ years is the requirement. The recruitment agencies will weed out people using this as one of their first criteria, and use CCIE as a desirable requirement. So what does that mean? Does that mean the person with the CCIE and 1 year experience would have to sit tight, and wait a couple more years? Albert -Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]]On Behalf Of EA LOUIE Sent: Wednesday, 21 March 2001 7:20 To: Allen May; [EMAIL PROTECTED] Cc: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Subject: Re: All positions are valid - Cisco Certs Becoming Paper CCXX No way, Allen... you already cashed it in about 15 messages ago on this thread - no fair cashing in twice ;-) and I actually think this has been a healthy thread. There seem to be these camps, from what I've read: 1. Certs add value regardless of a person's experience in industry - it's a willingness to learn. 2. Experience adds value and meaning to the Certs - it's an enhancement to your experience and something that is in written recognizable form. 3. Certs get your foot into the otherwise closed, air-tight door - it's an indication that the person is trained and knowledgeable to some extent on the techonology, and therefore less risky to hire than a non-certified (possibly experienced) person Thank goodness no one has presented the argument that Certs are a bad thing ;-) All of the positions have validity. The original poster was concerned about VALUE DILUTION of the certs with all the folks who were "jumping on the bandwagon" versus those of us who have been in the job and are uncertified and working on our certs. This raised the issue of "what's more important or holds more value... the Cert or experience?" And that's been tossed around alot in the past 20 or so messages. Value, fortunately, lies in the eyes of the hiring manager, so if you can convince HIM one way or another, whichever way you want to sway it, more power to you! (now I'm feeling like having a breath mint... hmmm.. what's up with that? "It's two, two, two mints in one") LOL... I should be so jolly after a one-hour rolling blackout at my office! -e- "Allen May" [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: I'm still ready to stop this thread and cash in on all the 2 cents thrown in. ;) Allen - Original Message - From: "Robert Padjen" [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: [EMAIL PROTECTED]; [EMAIL PROTECTED] Cc: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Tuesday, March 20, 2001 10:55 AM Subject: RE: Cisco Certs Becoming Paper CCXX I believe that there are two distinctions that should be made - and that you may disagree with. At least for the bachelors degree, the experience is just that - well beyond the actual academics. In addition, the focus of the GE portion of the program is to diversify - humanities, science, language, amongst others. This is one of the limitations to the Cisco (and other) certifications as the certifications present a myopic
RE: All positions are valid - Cisco Certs Becoming Paper CCXX
STOP THE PRESS..THE TRUTH OF THE MATTER IS, AND YOU ALL KNOW IT, IT'S NOT ALWAYS WHAT YOU KNOW OR WHAT PIECE OF PAPER OR INITIALS YOU HAVE AFTER YOUR NAME..ITS "WHO YOU KNOW" THAT WILL DETERMINE WHETHER OR NOT YOU GET THAT JOB. IT HAS LITTLE TO DO WITH PAPER CERTS NOR YEARS EXPERIENCE. IF SOMEONE GETS YOU IN THE DOOR, AND YOU HAVE THE LEAST BIT OF DETERMINATION TO SUCCEED, THEY ARE WILLING TO WORK WITH YOU. AND WILL PROVIDE YOU THE MENTOR OR ALL THE TRAINING YOUR BRAINS CAN MUSTER..ITS TRUE, ITS TRUE. -Original Message- From: Albert Lu [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]] Sent: Wednesday, March 21, 2001 5:10 AM To: Lim Jit Cherng Cc: [EMAIL PROTECTED]; [EMAIL PROTECTED] Subject: RE: All positions are valid - Cisco Certs Becoming Paper CCXX He probably wouldn't even make the interview room, because recruiters would have screened him out long ago. -Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]]On Behalf Of Lim Jit Cherng Sent: Wednesday, 21 March 2001 8:40 To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Cc: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Subject: RE: All positions are valid - Cisco Certs Becoming Paper CCXX i guess it'll really depends how you present yourself in the CV, and during the interview. . experience is good. but consider, if a young chap with only 1 years experience but he can show the interviewer he have the required knowledge and show he works with passion, do you think he'll get the job? -Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]]On Behalf Of Albert Lu Sent: Wednesday, March 21, 2001 4:44 PM To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Cc: [EMAIL PROTECTED]; EA LOUIE; Allen May Subject: RE: All positions are valid - Cisco Certs Becoming Paper CCXX Let me ask a question relating to this topic. I'm only looking for opinions, not voicing one, so please hold back the flames =) What would a person be worth (dollar terms) if they have 1 year working in an entry/1st level NOC monitoring position, and they have attained their CCIE? Will they have shown enough to move into a 3rd level position, or will they just be a highly decorated 1st level support guy? From the job ads I see, it seems like experience of 3-5+ years is the requirement. The recruitment agencies will weed out people using this as one of their first criteria, and use CCIE as a desirable requirement. So what does that mean? Does that mean the person with the CCIE and 1 year experience would have to sit tight, and wait a couple more years? Albert -Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]]On Behalf Of EA LOUIE Sent: Wednesday, 21 March 2001 7:20 To: Allen May; [EMAIL PROTECTED] Cc: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Subject: Re: All positions are valid - Cisco Certs Becoming Paper CCXX No way, Allen... you already cashed it in about 15 messages ago on this thread - no fair cashing in twice ;-) and I actually think this has been a healthy thread. There seem to be these camps, from what I've read: 1. Certs add value regardless of a person's experience in industry - it's a willingness to learn. 2. Experience adds value and meaning to the Certs - it's an enhancement to your experience and something that is in written recognizable form. 3. Certs get your foot into the otherwise closed, air-tight door - it's an indication that the person is trained and knowledgeable to some extent on the techonology, and therefore less risky to hire than a non-certified (possibly experienced) person Thank goodness no one has presented the argument that Certs are a bad thing ;-) All of the positions have validity. The original poster was concerned about VALUE DILUTION of the certs with all the folks who were "jumping on the bandwagon" versus those of us who have been in the job and are uncertified and working on our certs. This raised the issue of "what's more important or holds more value... the Cert or experience?" And that's been tossed around alot in the past 20 or so messages. Value, fortunately, lies in the eyes of the hiring manager, so if you can convince HIM one way or another, whichever way you want to sway it, more power to you! (now I'm feeling like having a breath mint... hmmm.. what's up with that? "It's two, two, two mints in one") LOL... I should be so jolly after a one-hour rolling blackout at my office! -e- "Allen May" [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: I'm still ready to stop this thread and cash in on all the 2 cents thrown in. ;) Allen - Original Message - From: "Robert Padjen" [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: [EMAIL PROTECTED]; [EMAIL PROTECTED] Cc: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Tuesday, March 20, 2001 10:55 AM Subject: RE: Cisco Certs Becoming Paper CCXX I believe that there are two distinctions that should be made - and that
Re: All positions are valid - Cisco Certs Becoming Paper CCXX
No way, Allen... you already cashed it in about 15 messages ago on this thread - no fair cashing in twice ;-) and I actually think this has been a healthy thread. There seem to be these camps, from what I've read: 1. Certs add value regardless of a person's experience in industry - it's a willingness to learn. 2. Experience adds value and meaning to the Certs - it's an enhancement to your experience and something that is in written recognizable form. 3. Certs get your foot into the otherwise closed, air-tight door - it's an indication that the person is trained and knowledgeable to some extent on the techonology, and therefore less risky to hire than a non-certified (possibly experienced) person Thank goodness no one has presented the argument that Certs are a bad thing ;-) All of the positions have validity. The original poster was concerned about VALUE DILUTION of the certs with all the folks who were "jumping on the bandwagon" versus those of us who have been in the job and are uncertified and working on our certs. This raised the issue of "what's more important or holds more value... the Cert or experience?" And that's been tossed around alot in the past 20 or so messages. Value, fortunately, lies in the eyes of the hiring manager, so if you can convince HIM one way or another, whichever way you want to sway it, more power to you! (now I'm feeling like having a breath mint... hmmm.. what's up with that? "It's two, two, two mints in one") LOL... I should be so jolly after a one-hour rolling blackout at my office! -e- "Allen May" [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: I'm still ready to stop this thread and cash in on all the 2 cents thrown in. ;) Allen - Original Message - From: "Robert Padjen" [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: [EMAIL PROTECTED]; [EMAIL PROTECTED] Cc: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Tuesday, March 20, 2001 10:55 AM Subject: RE: Cisco Certs Becoming Paper CCXX I believe that there are two distinctions that should be made - and that you may disagree with. At least for the bachelors degree, the experience is just that - well beyond the actual academics. In addition, the focus of the GE portion of the program is to diversify - humanities, science, language, amongst others. This is one of the limitations to the Cisco (and other) certifications as the certifications present a myopic view. The second distinction is that I would contend neither represents more than the sum of its components, and that value is perceived. For example, if I graduated Stanford with a 2.1 GPA, as opposed to San Diego State with a 4.0, which school would be a better hire? Few resumes I see have the GPA, and, regardless, a lot of folks use the name... --- [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: This issue is turning thisgs upside down from point of view. I would like to tell you my opinion. If CCNA, NP, DA, DP and IE written are not worth then your Bachelors and Graduate studies worth the same. Just papers. I learn to configure a cisco router before knowing all the cisco stuff. I have a CCDA, CCNP and going for the complete set CCDA, CCNP and CCIE complete. I knew frame relay,atm, sna, dlsw, sdlc, ppp, ipx, switching, etc before taking any cisco course. I took all cisco traning path version 11.2 and just recently obtain my degrees and working for the big one. What will be your opinion Do I know something or I am just papers? You sould be carefull on your opinion about this things, all the knowledge since a long time ago has been paper, No one has achieve glory after years of practice and experience. I was thinking that you are trying to do the same that the shareowners are doing with the internet economy, you are devaluating the value of the Certifications, why don't you do the same with the college and and graduate degrees, they are very similar just studying and passing examns not real life thing until you pass all the levels (semesters and big exam thesis). Giga Internetworking Fer Saldana _ FAQ, list archives, and subscription info: http://www.groupstudy.com/list/cisco.html Report misconduct and Nondisclosure violations to [EMAIL PROTECTED] = Robert Padjen __ Do You Yahoo!? Get email at your own domain with Yahoo! Mail. http://personal.mail.yahoo.com/ _ FAQ, list archives, and subscription info: http://www.groupstudy.com/list/cisco.html Report misconduct and Nondisclosure violations to [EMAIL PROTECTED] _ FAQ, list archives, and subscription info: http://www.groupstudy.com/list/cisco.html Report misconduct and Nondisclosure violations to [EMAIL PROTECTED] Get free email and a
Re: All positions are valid - Cisco Certs Becoming Paper CCXX
Damn and I missed out on another 30 cents...haha. I'm not sure why this is even discussed...like you said..it's in the eyes of the beerholder...er...hiring manager. (I was thinking beauty..sorry). hehe...thought I'd give 2 cents back to the group since I cashed in on a bunch of it ;) - Original Message - From: "EA LOUIE" [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: "Allen May" [EMAIL PROTECTED]; [EMAIL PROTECTED] Cc: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Tuesday, March 20, 2001 2:19 PM Subject: Re: All positions are valid - Cisco Certs Becoming Paper CCXX No way, Allen... you already cashed it in about 15 messages ago on this thread - no fair cashing in twice ;-) and I actually think this has been a healthy thread. There seem to be these camps, from what I've read: 1. Certs add value regardless of a person's experience in industry - it's a willingness to learn. 2. Experience adds value and meaning to the Certs - it's an enhancement to your experience and something that is in written recognizable form. 3. Certs get your foot into the otherwise closed, air-tight door - it's an indication that the person is trained and knowledgeable to some extent on the techonology, and therefore less risky to hire than a non-certified (possibly experienced) person Thank goodness no one has presented the argument that Certs are a bad thing ;-) All of the positions have validity. The original poster was concerned about VALUE DILUTION of the certs with all the folks who were "jumping on the bandwagon" versus those of us who have been in the job and are uncertified and working on our certs. This raised the issue of "what's more important or holds more value... the Cert or experience?" And that's been tossed around alot in the past 20 or so messages. Value, fortunately, lies in the eyes of the hiring manager, so if you can convince HIM one way or another, whichever way you want to sway it, more power to you! (now I'm feeling like having a breath mint... hmmm.. what's up with that? "It's two, two, two mints in one") LOL... I should be so jolly after a one-hour rolling blackout at my office! -e- "Allen May" [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: I'm still ready to stop this thread and cash in on all the 2 cents thrown in. ;) Allen - Original Message - From: "Robert Padjen" [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: [EMAIL PROTECTED]; [EMAIL PROTECTED] Cc: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Tuesday, March 20, 2001 10:55 AM Subject: RE: Cisco Certs Becoming Paper CCXX I believe that there are two distinctions that should be made - and that you may disagree with. At least for the bachelors degree, the experience is just that - well beyond the actual academics. In addition, the focus of the GE portion of the program is to diversify - humanities, science, language, amongst others. This is one of the limitations to the Cisco (and other) certifications as the certifications present a myopic view. The second distinction is that I would contend neither represents more than the sum of its components, and that value is perceived. For example, if I graduated Stanford with a 2.1 GPA, as opposed to San Diego State with a 4.0, which school would be a better hire? Few resumes I see have the GPA, and, regardless, a lot of folks use the name... --- [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: This issue is turning thisgs upside down from point of view. I would like to tell you my opinion. If CCNA, NP, DA, DP and IE written are not worth then your Bachelors and Graduate studies worth the same. Just papers. I learn to configure a cisco router before knowing all the cisco stuff. I have a CCDA, CCNP and going for the complete set CCDA, CCNP and CCIE complete. I knew frame relay,atm, sna, dlsw, sdlc, ppp, ipx, switching, etc before taking any cisco course. I took all cisco traning path version 11.2 and just recently obtain my degrees and working for the big one. What will be your opinion Do I know something or I am just papers? You sould be carefull on your opinion about this things, all the knowledge since a long time ago has been paper, No one has achieve glory after years of practice and experience. I was thinking that you are trying to do the same that the shareowners are doing with the internet economy, you are devaluating the value of the Certifications, why don't you do the same with the college and and graduate degrees, they are very similar just studying and passing examns not real life thing until you pass all the levels (semesters and big exam thesis). Giga Internetworking Fer Saldana _ FAQ, list archives, and subscription info: http://www.groupstudy.com/list/cisco.html
Re: All positions are valid - Cisco Certs Becoming Paper CCXX
Date: 20 Mar 2001 12:19:54 PST From: EA LOUIE [EMAIL PROTECTED] Subject: Re: All positions are valid - Cisco Certs Becoming Paper CCXX snip (now I'm feeling like having a breath mint... hmmm.. what's up with that? "It's two, two, two mints in one") LOL... I should be so jolly after a one-hour rolling blackout at my office! Are you in norther or southern CA? _ FAQ, list archives, and subscription info: http://www.groupstudy.com/list/cisco.html Report misconduct and Nondisclosure violations to [EMAIL PROTECTED]
