Re: CCIE Lab - I have seen he future and it is.... [7:62776]
I've had those before...once! Not very good. Would not want to build a network on them. Logan, Harold wrote in message [EMAIL PROTECTED]">news:[EMAIL PROTECTED]... I think your problem with the dipping dots analogy is that dipping dots have to be served from the bottom up; there's no such thing as Top-Down Dipping Dot Design. Hal -Original Message- From: Priscilla Oppenheimer [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]] Sent: Tuesday, February 11, 2003 2:39 PM To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Subject: Re: CCIE Lab - I have seen he future and it is [7:62776] Glad you're not depressed and are continuing your quest. You should consider being a writer. Your writing is really good, although the dipping dots ice cream analogy is just not working for me. I just can't imagine freeze-dried ice cream for one thing. Does it use dotted-decimal notation? ;-) Priscilla Charles Riley wrote: Thanks to all who wrote in. My Kafkaseque post yesterday apparently touched a chord (or nerve) with several folks. I was hoping to start an OT discussion on those Dippin' Dots ice cream, and draw analogies to networking. Heck, I would even settle for Howard asking a variation of his favorite question: what is the ice cream you are trying to eat? In all seriousness, I haven't abandoned all hope yet, it has just lessened in importance and intensity for me. In response to CN's question, I have attempted the lab at least once, Brussels, way back when the lab was a two day lab, and the numbers were still quad digits.Without violating the NDA, let's just say that I will never forgive ISDN for what it did to me. As far as my motives for CCIE chasing, the main reason I am persisting is that not only have I invested time, money, and freeze dried ice cream, but the CCIE quest motivates me to study topics that I don't necessarily deal with on a daily basis, and to practice exotic configurations with those that I do. OSPF through a GRE tunnel over an ISDN DBU to the Dippin' Dots website, anyone? Thanks, Charles Cisco Nuts wrote in message [EMAIL PROTECTED]">news:[EMAIL PROTECTED]... Hello Charles, With due respect I ask, why did you abandon your quest for the CCIE? I am curious as to how many times you actually hit the Lab? Sincerely, CN From: Charles Riley Reply-To: Charles Riley To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Subject: Re: CCIE Lab - I have seen he future and it is [7:62776] Date: Mon, 10 Feb 2003 22:19:54 GMT Chuck, Your post reminds me of those weird little ice cream stands that I sometimes see at the mall and various carnivals. It's called something like Dipping Dots - The Ice Cream of the Future. The initial human instinct is much like the Cro-Magnon humanoids encountering the monolith at the beginning of 2001: A Space Odyssey (sp): jump up and down with excitement until you realize it's just freeze dried ice cream. Rounding out that analogy, the CCIE of the future will probably be reduced to being the CCNP of today. Regardless, I have spent too much time and money to abandon the quest for CCIE now, but frankly, if I hadn't invested as much as I have, I would most likely abandon the quest in favor of broadening into other areas. I really don't see much market value for the CCIE anymore, especially with Cisco hellbent on making it a meatgrinding cash cow. Your java console and one way only to configure experience kind of bears this out. Sorry for the depressing post, just wanted to share. Charles The Long and Winding Road wrote in message [EMAIL PROTECTED]">news:[EMAIL PROTECTED]... Been spending this weekend on what was once the Cisco Advanced SE Training ( ASET ) set of labs. These are available for those whose Cisco account team approves - there are a few conditions which can be found in the wee places of certification training. The program is run by Lab Gear ( the only link I have is www.labgear.net, but this is a login page ) There are a number of labs of CCIE level, look, and feel. Supposed to be real equipment, but the access is via java script windows, not terminal emulation. This makes for some interesting situations. The windows show or provide output only when they are active. So if you had two router sessions open, and you made changes on one router that would generate systems messages of one sort or another you would not see those messages on the other. also, I have yet to find a way to generate output from debugging commands. Things like term mon and logging of one kind or another have not been successful. so no debug ip routing and debug ip ospf adj. As with the real lab, there are a series of tasks to be completed. Grading is done via a s
Re: CCIE Lab - I have seen he future and it is.... [7:62776]
Hello Charles, With due respect I ask, why did you abandon your quest for the CCIE? I am curious as to how many times you actually hit the Lab? Sincerely, CN From: Charles Riley Reply-To: Charles Riley To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Subject: Re: CCIE Lab - I have seen he future and it is [7:62776] Date: Mon, 10 Feb 2003 22:19:54 GMT Chuck, Your post reminds me of those weird little ice cream stands that I sometimes see at the mall and various carnivals. It's called something like Dipping Dots - The Ice Cream of the Future. The initial human instinct is much like the Cro-Magnon humanoids encountering the monolith at the beginning of 2001: A Space Odyssey (sp): jump up and down with excitement until you realize it's just freeze dried ice cream. Rounding out that analogy, the CCIE of the future will probably be reduced to being the CCNP of today. Regardless, I have spent too much time and money to abandon the quest for CCIE now, but frankly, if I hadn't invested as much as I have, I would most likely abandon the quest in favor of broadening into other areas. I really don't see much market value for the CCIE anymore, especially with Cisco hellbent on making it a meatgrinding cash cow. Your java console and one way only to configure experience kind of bears this out. Sorry for the depressing post, just wanted to share. Charles The Long and Winding Road wrote in message [EMAIL PROTECTED]">news:[EMAIL PROTECTED]... Been spending this weekend on what was once the Cisco Advanced SE Training ( ASET ) set of labs. These are available for those whose Cisco account team approves - there are a few conditions which can be found in the wee places of certification training. The program is run by Lab Gear ( the only link I have is www.labgear.net, but this is a login page ) There are a number of labs of CCIE level, look, and feel. Supposed to be real equipment, but the access is via java script windows, not terminal emulation. This makes for some interesting situations. The windows show or provide output only when they are active. So if you had two router sessions open, and you made changes on one router that would generate systems messages of one sort or another you would not see those messages on the other. also, I have yet to find a way to generate output from debugging commands. Things like term mon and logging of one kind or another have not been successful. so no debug ip routing and debug ip ospf adj. As with the real lab, there are a series of tasks to be completed. Grading is done via a script. This is the point of most interest. Actually, I suspect a lot of the current CCIE Lab grading is done using scripting tools. I believe the proctors still physically examine equipment configurations for some things, but I could be wrong. It is of interest because to judge from the script outputs I am seeing, there appears to be an assumption that there is one and only one way to do things. I'm not sure this is always true. I am not sure that this results in an entirely accurate grade. But more importantly, given my experience with the java consoles and the manner in which these labs must be done, I am not sure I like where this is headed. Something Brian Dennis and Brad Ellis and some other people started talking about back when the CCIE Lab went from two days to one - something about the longer term goal being to do the test remotely, and having people show up at Sylvan or some other testing center and log in remotely. If the Lab Gear approach is any indication, this is not ready for real live testing. I experienced far too many problems with terminal ( javascript ) sessions disconnecting mysteriously. With 8 open windows, it sometimes got to be very hard to find the session ( router ) I was looking for. Cut and paste is a real pain. You have to open a scratchpad window, which is associated with the javascript console window. cutting and pasting is done to this wind. there are scratchpad windows associated with each java wind, so if you had a scratchpad open for every router session, that makes for a LOT of junk to fight your way through looking for what you want. then there is the problem of actually moving what you want to copy and paste. highlight and control c control v or alt e paste don't work. you have to click on buttons on the java consoles to copy to and from routers. beyond that, there is the problems of whether or not the script answer is the right answer. For example, in one lab, a particular instruction requires that the rip routers on a particular segment have to use the neighbor statement to see eachother ( and prevent other routers on that segment from joining into the RIP domain ) well, the problem is, one of those routers is connected to another RIP router via a different interface. need a neighbor statement there too, but the script does not cover this, nor does th
Re: CCIE Lab - I have seen he future and it is.... [7:62776]
Thanks to all who wrote in. My Kafkaseque post yesterday apparently touched a chord (or nerve) with several folks. I was hoping to start an OT discussion on those Dippin' Dots ice cream, and draw analogies to networking. Heck, I would even settle for Howard asking a variation of his favorite question: what is the ice cream you are trying to eat? In all seriousness, I haven't abandoned all hope yet, it has just lessened in importance and intensity for me. In response to CN's question, I have attempted the lab at least once, Brussels, way back when the lab was a two day lab, and the numbers were still quad digits.Without violating the NDA, let's just say that I will never forgive ISDN for what it did to me. As far as my motives for CCIE chasing, the main reason I am persisting is that not only have I invested time, money, and freeze dried ice cream, but the CCIE quest motivates me to study topics that I don't necessarily deal with on a daily basis, and to practice exotic configurations with those that I do. OSPF through a GRE tunnel over an ISDN DBU to the Dippin' Dots website, anyone? Thanks, Charles Cisco Nuts wrote in message [EMAIL PROTECTED]">news:[EMAIL PROTECTED]... Hello Charles, With due respect I ask, why did you abandon your quest for the CCIE? I am curious as to how many times you actually hit the Lab? Sincerely, CN From: Charles Riley Reply-To: Charles Riley To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Subject: Re: CCIE Lab - I have seen he future and it is [7:62776] Date: Mon, 10 Feb 2003 22:19:54 GMT Chuck, Your post reminds me of those weird little ice cream stands that I sometimes see at the mall and various carnivals. It's called something like Dipping Dots - The Ice Cream of the Future. The initial human instinct is much like the Cro-Magnon humanoids encountering the monolith at the beginning of 2001: A Space Odyssey (sp): jump up and down with excitement until you realize it's just freeze dried ice cream. Rounding out that analogy, the CCIE of the future will probably be reduced to being the CCNP of today. Regardless, I have spent too much time and money to abandon the quest for CCIE now, but frankly, if I hadn't invested as much as I have, I would most likely abandon the quest in favor of broadening into other areas. I really don't see much market value for the CCIE anymore, especially with Cisco hellbent on making it a meatgrinding cash cow. Your java console and one way only to configure experience kind of bears this out. Sorry for the depressing post, just wanted to share. Charles The Long and Winding Road wrote in message [EMAIL PROTECTED]">news:[EMAIL PROTECTED]... Been spending this weekend on what was once the Cisco Advanced SE Training ( ASET ) set of labs. These are available for those whose Cisco account team approves - there are a few conditions which can be found in the wee places of certification training. The program is run by Lab Gear ( the only link I have is www.labgear.net, but this is a login page ) There are a number of labs of CCIE level, look, and feel. Supposed to be real equipment, but the access is via java script windows, not terminal emulation. This makes for some interesting situations. The windows show or provide output only when they are active. So if you had two router sessions open, and you made changes on one router that would generate systems messages of one sort or another you would not see those messages on the other. also, I have yet to find a way to generate output from debugging commands. Things like term mon and logging of one kind or another have not been successful. so no debug ip routing and debug ip ospf adj. As with the real lab, there are a series of tasks to be completed. Grading is done via a script. This is the point of most interest. Actually, I suspect a lot of the current CCIE Lab grading is done using scripting tools. I believe the proctors still physically examine equipment configurations for some things, but I could be wrong. It is of interest because to judge from the script outputs I am seeing, there appears to be an assumption that there is one and only one way to do things. I'm not sure this is always true. I am not sure that this results in an entirely accurate grade. But more importantly, given my experience with the java consoles and the manner in which these labs must be done, I am not sure I like where this is headed. Something Brian Dennis and Brad Ellis and some other people started talking about back when the CCIE Lab went from two days to one - something about the longer term goal being to do the test remotely, and having people show up at Sylvan or some other testing center and log in remotely. If the Lab Gear approach is any indication, this is not ready for real live testing. I experienced far too many problems with terminal ( javascript ) sessio
Re: CCIE Lab - I have seen he future and it is.... [7:62776]
Glad you're not depressed and are continuing your quest. You should consider being a writer. Your writing is really good, although the dipping dots ice cream analogy is just not working for me. I just can't imagine freeze-dried ice cream for one thing. Does it use dotted-decimal notation? ;-) Priscilla Charles Riley wrote: Thanks to all who wrote in. My Kafkaseque post yesterday apparently touched a chord (or nerve) with several folks. I was hoping to start an OT discussion on those Dippin' Dots ice cream, and draw analogies to networking. Heck, I would even settle for Howard asking a variation of his favorite question: what is the ice cream you are trying to eat? In all seriousness, I haven't abandoned all hope yet, it has just lessened in importance and intensity for me. In response to CN's question, I have attempted the lab at least once, Brussels, way back when the lab was a two day lab, and the numbers were still quad digits.Without violating the NDA, let's just say that I will never forgive ISDN for what it did to me. As far as my motives for CCIE chasing, the main reason I am persisting is that not only have I invested time, money, and freeze dried ice cream, but the CCIE quest motivates me to study topics that I don't necessarily deal with on a daily basis, and to practice exotic configurations with those that I do. OSPF through a GRE tunnel over an ISDN DBU to the Dippin' Dots website, anyone? Thanks, Charles Cisco Nuts wrote in message [EMAIL PROTECTED]">news:[EMAIL PROTECTED]... Hello Charles, With due respect I ask, why did you abandon your quest for the CCIE? I am curious as to how many times you actually hit the Lab? Sincerely, CN From: Charles Riley Reply-To: Charles Riley To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Subject: Re: CCIE Lab - I have seen he future and it is [7:62776] Date: Mon, 10 Feb 2003 22:19:54 GMT Chuck, Your post reminds me of those weird little ice cream stands that I sometimes see at the mall and various carnivals. It's called something like Dipping Dots - The Ice Cream of the Future. The initial human instinct is much like the Cro-Magnon humanoids encountering the monolith at the beginning of 2001: A Space Odyssey (sp): jump up and down with excitement until you realize it's just freeze dried ice cream. Rounding out that analogy, the CCIE of the future will probably be reduced to being the CCNP of today. Regardless, I have spent too much time and money to abandon the quest for CCIE now, but frankly, if I hadn't invested as much as I have, I would most likely abandon the quest in favor of broadening into other areas. I really don't see much market value for the CCIE anymore, especially with Cisco hellbent on making it a meatgrinding cash cow. Your java console and one way only to configure experience kind of bears this out. Sorry for the depressing post, just wanted to share. Charles The Long and Winding Road wrote in message [EMAIL PROTECTED]">news:[EMAIL PROTECTED]... Been spending this weekend on what was once the Cisco Advanced SE Training ( ASET ) set of labs. These are available for those whose Cisco account team approves - there are a few conditions which can be found in the wee places of certification training. The program is run by Lab Gear ( the only link I have is www.labgear.net, but this is a login page ) There are a number of labs of CCIE level, look, and feel. Supposed to be real equipment, but the access is via java script windows, not terminal emulation. This makes for some interesting situations. The windows show or provide output only when they are active. So if you had two router sessions open, and you made changes on one router that would generate systems messages of one sort or another you would not see those messages on the other. also, I have yet to find a way to generate output from debugging commands. Things like term mon and logging of one kind or another have not been successful. so no debug ip routing and debug ip ospf adj. As with the real lab, there are a series of tasks to be completed. Grading is done via a script. This is the point of most interest. Actually, I suspect a lot of the current CCIE Lab grading is done using scripting tools. I believe the proctors still physically examine equipment configurations for some things, but I could be wrong. It is of interest because to judge from the script outputs I am seeing, there appears to be an assumption that there is one and only one way to do things. I'm not sure this is always true. I am not sure that this results in an entirely accurate grade. But more importantly, given my experience with the java consoles and the manner in which these labs must be done, I am not sure I like where this is h
RE: CCIE Lab - I have seen he future and it is.... [7:62776]
I disagree, it sounds to me like Chuck is pursuing the IE for the right reasons. If his goal was to learn enough to pass the lab, and he has learned most of what he set out to learn, I can't really fault him for being discouraged. It's very frustrating having spent months or even years learning how to do 4-way IGP redistribution with no routing loops and all those other difficult but possible scenarios we subject ourself to, only to fail the lab because in a low-time high-stress environment you couldn't think of which OSPF over frame config would meet the bassackwards requirements on the lab. It's Cisco's program, and they can do whatever they want with it. But my learning curve has drastically changed since I started studying for the lab, and there are other pursuits that I'd like to go after once I'm done with the lab. Really my primary motivation at this point is that I'm not a quitter, and I want to finish what I started. I'm not pursuing the IE so I can get a better job or so I can get promoted at my current one. I teach CCNA and CCNP classes, and when I pass the lab I'll still be teaching CCNA and CCNP classes. Having studied for the lab helps me do a much better job as an instructor, but having a number behind my name won't make a lick of difference to anyone but me. -Original Message- From: Amazing [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]] Sent: Monday, February 10, 2003 11:13 PM To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Subject: Re: CCIE Lab - I have seen he future and it is [7:62776] actually, i think you have it backwardsthe CCNP of tomorrow will be the CCIE of todayCCC tests are getting harder...the bar is being raised if what you state is truly the way you truly feel, then you were in pursuit of the CCIE for the wrong reason in the first place. sorry you're so depressed. Charles Riley wrote in message [EMAIL PROTECTED]">news:[EMAIL PROTECTED]... Chuck, Your post reminds me of those weird little ice cream stands that I sometimes see at the mall and various carnivals. It's called something like Dipping Dots - The Ice Cream of the Future. The initial human instinct is much like the Cro-Magnon humanoids encountering the monolith at the beginning of 2001: A Space Odyssey (sp): jump up and down with excitement until you realize it's just freeze dried ice cream. Rounding out that analogy, the CCIE of the future will probably be reduced to being the CCNP of today. Regardless, I have spent too much time and money to abandon the quest for CCIE now, but frankly, if I hadn't invested as much as I have, I would most likely abandon the quest in favor of broadening into other areas. I really don't see much market value for the CCIE anymore, especially with Cisco hellbent on making it a meatgrinding cash cow. Your java console and one way only to configure experience kind of bears this out. Sorry for the depressing post, just wanted to share. Charles The Long and Winding Road wrote in message [EMAIL PROTECTED]">news:[EMAIL PROTECTED]... Been spending this weekend on what was once the Cisco Advanced SE Training ( ASET ) set of labs. These are available for those whose Cisco account team approves - there are a few conditions which can be found in the wee places of certification training. The program is run by Lab Gear ( the only link I have is www.labgear.net, but this is a login page ) There are a number of labs of CCIE level, look, and feel. Supposed to be real equipment, but the access is via java script windows, not terminal emulation. This makes for some interesting situations. The windows show or provide output only when they are active. So if you had two router sessions open, and you made changes on one router that would generate systems messages of one sort or another you would not see those messages on the other. also, I have yet to find a way to generate output from debugging commands. Things like term mon and logging of one kind or another have not been successful. so no debug ip routing and debug ip ospf adj. As with the real lab, there are a series of tasks to be completed. Grading is done via a script. This is the point of most interest. Actually, I suspect a lot of the current CCIE Lab grading is done using scripting tools. I believe the proctors still physically examine equipment configurations for some things, but I could be wrong. It is of interest because to judge from the script outputs I am seeing, there appears to be an assumption that there is one and only one way to do things. I'm not sure this is always true. I am not sure that this results in an entirely accurate grade. But more importantly, given my experience with the java consoles and the manner in which these labs must be done, I am not sure I like where thi
RE: CCIE Lab - I have seen he future and it is.... [7:62776]
I think your problem with the dipping dots analogy is that dipping dots have to be served from the bottom up; there's no such thing as Top-Down Dipping Dot Design. Hal -Original Message- From: Priscilla Oppenheimer [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]] Sent: Tuesday, February 11, 2003 2:39 PM To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Subject: Re: CCIE Lab - I have seen he future and it is [7:62776] Glad you're not depressed and are continuing your quest. You should consider being a writer. Your writing is really good, although the dipping dots ice cream analogy is just not working for me. I just can't imagine freeze-dried ice cream for one thing. Does it use dotted-decimal notation? ;-) Priscilla Charles Riley wrote: Thanks to all who wrote in. My Kafkaseque post yesterday apparently touched a chord (or nerve) with several folks. I was hoping to start an OT discussion on those Dippin' Dots ice cream, and draw analogies to networking. Heck, I would even settle for Howard asking a variation of his favorite question: what is the ice cream you are trying to eat? In all seriousness, I haven't abandoned all hope yet, it has just lessened in importance and intensity for me. In response to CN's question, I have attempted the lab at least once, Brussels, way back when the lab was a two day lab, and the numbers were still quad digits.Without violating the NDA, let's just say that I will never forgive ISDN for what it did to me. As far as my motives for CCIE chasing, the main reason I am persisting is that not only have I invested time, money, and freeze dried ice cream, but the CCIE quest motivates me to study topics that I don't necessarily deal with on a daily basis, and to practice exotic configurations with those that I do. OSPF through a GRE tunnel over an ISDN DBU to the Dippin' Dots website, anyone? Thanks, Charles Cisco Nuts wrote in message [EMAIL PROTECTED]">news:[EMAIL PROTECTED]... Hello Charles, With due respect I ask, why did you abandon your quest for the CCIE? I am curious as to how many times you actually hit the Lab? Sincerely, CN From: Charles Riley Reply-To: Charles Riley To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Subject: Re: CCIE Lab - I have seen he future and it is [7:62776] Date: Mon, 10 Feb 2003 22:19:54 GMT Chuck, Your post reminds me of those weird little ice cream stands that I sometimes see at the mall and various carnivals. It's called something like Dipping Dots - The Ice Cream of the Future. The initial human instinct is much like the Cro-Magnon humanoids encountering the monolith at the beginning of 2001: A Space Odyssey (sp): jump up and down with excitement until you realize it's just freeze dried ice cream. Rounding out that analogy, the CCIE of the future will probably be reduced to being the CCNP of today. Regardless, I have spent too much time and money to abandon the quest for CCIE now, but frankly, if I hadn't invested as much as I have, I would most likely abandon the quest in favor of broadening into other areas. I really don't see much market value for the CCIE anymore, especially with Cisco hellbent on making it a meatgrinding cash cow. Your java console and one way only to configure experience kind of bears this out. Sorry for the depressing post, just wanted to share. Charles The Long and Winding Road wrote in message [EMAIL PROTECTED]">news:[EMAIL PROTECTED]... Been spending this weekend on what was once the Cisco Advanced SE Training ( ASET ) set of labs. These are available for those whose Cisco account team approves - there are a few conditions which can be found in the wee places of certification training. The program is run by Lab Gear ( the only link I have is www.labgear.net, but this is a login page ) There are a number of labs of CCIE level, look, and feel. Supposed to be real equipment, but the access is via java script windows, not terminal emulation. This makes for some interesting situations. The windows show or provide output only when they are active. So if you had two router sessions open, and you made changes on one router that would generate systems messages of one sort or another you would not see those messages on the other. also, I have yet to find a way to generate output from debugging commands. Things like term mon and logging of one kind or another have not been successful. so no debug ip routing and debug ip ospf adj. As with the real lab, there are a series of tasks to be completed. Grading is done via a script. This is the point of most interest. Actually, I suspect a lot of the current CCIE Lab grading is done using scripting tools. I believe th
Re: CCIE Lab - I have seen he future and it is.... [7:62776]
Chuck, Your post reminds me of those weird little ice cream stands that I sometimes see at the mall and various carnivals. It's called something like Dipping Dots - The Ice Cream of the Future. The initial human instinct is much like the Cro-Magnon humanoids encountering the monolith at the beginning of 2001: A Space Odyssey (sp): jump up and down with excitement until you realize it's just freeze dried ice cream. Rounding out that analogy, the CCIE of the future will probably be reduced to being the CCNP of today. Regardless, I have spent too much time and money to abandon the quest for CCIE now, but frankly, if I hadn't invested as much as I have, I would most likely abandon the quest in favor of broadening into other areas. I really don't see much market value for the CCIE anymore, especially with Cisco hellbent on making it a meatgrinding cash cow. Your java console and one way only to configure experience kind of bears this out. Sorry for the depressing post, just wanted to share. Charles The Long and Winding Road wrote in message [EMAIL PROTECTED]">news:[EMAIL PROTECTED]... Been spending this weekend on what was once the Cisco Advanced SE Training ( ASET ) set of labs. These are available for those whose Cisco account team approves - there are a few conditions which can be found in the wee places of certification training. The program is run by Lab Gear ( the only link I have is www.labgear.net, but this is a login page ) There are a number of labs of CCIE level, look, and feel. Supposed to be real equipment, but the access is via java script windows, not terminal emulation. This makes for some interesting situations. The windows show or provide output only when they are active. So if you had two router sessions open, and you made changes on one router that would generate systems messages of one sort or another you would not see those messages on the other. also, I have yet to find a way to generate output from debugging commands. Things like term mon and logging of one kind or another have not been successful. so no debug ip routing and debug ip ospf adj. As with the real lab, there are a series of tasks to be completed. Grading is done via a script. This is the point of most interest. Actually, I suspect a lot of the current CCIE Lab grading is done using scripting tools. I believe the proctors still physically examine equipment configurations for some things, but I could be wrong. It is of interest because to judge from the script outputs I am seeing, there appears to be an assumption that there is one and only one way to do things. I'm not sure this is always true. I am not sure that this results in an entirely accurate grade. But more importantly, given my experience with the java consoles and the manner in which these labs must be done, I am not sure I like where this is headed. Something Brian Dennis and Brad Ellis and some other people started talking about back when the CCIE Lab went from two days to one - something about the longer term goal being to do the test remotely, and having people show up at Sylvan or some other testing center and log in remotely. If the Lab Gear approach is any indication, this is not ready for real live testing. I experienced far too many problems with terminal ( javascript ) sessions disconnecting mysteriously. With 8 open windows, it sometimes got to be very hard to find the session ( router ) I was looking for. Cut and paste is a real pain. You have to open a scratchpad window, which is associated with the javascript console window. cutting and pasting is done to this wind. there are scratchpad windows associated with each java wind, so if you had a scratchpad open for every router session, that makes for a LOT of junk to fight your way through looking for what you want. then there is the problem of actually moving what you want to copy and paste. highlight and control c control v or alt e paste don't work. you have to click on buttons on the java consoles to copy to and from routers. beyond that, there is the problems of whether or not the script answer is the right answer. For example, in one lab, a particular instruction requires that the rip routers on a particular segment have to use the neighbor statement to see eachother ( and prevent other routers on that segment from joining into the RIP domain ) well, the problem is, one of those routers is connected to another RIP router via a different interface. need a neighbor statement there too, but the script does not cover this, nor does the answer configuration show this. anyway, I have seen the future, and the CCIE Lab future looks like it may be heading to these kinds of remote lab settings. -- TANSTAAFL there ain't no such thing as a free lunch Message Posted at: http://www.groupstudy.com/form/read.php?f=7i=62776t=62776 -- FAQ, list archives, and subscription info:
Re: CCIE Lab - I have seen he future and it is.... [7:62776]
Charles Riley wrote: I think you may have overreacted and scared everybody away! :-) Chuck, Rounding out that analogy, the CCIE of the future will probably be reduced to being the CCNP of today. They can still make CCIE much harder than CCNP and if it is much harder, it will be more valued (probably). Regardless, I have spent too much time and money to abandon the quest for CCIE now, but frankly, if I hadn't invested as much as I have, I would most likely abandon the quest in favor of broadening into other areas. I really don't see much market value for the CCIE anymore, especially with Cisco hellbent on making it a meatgrinding cash cow. They're just trying to save money, be more profitable. We are all trying to do that in these awful economic times. Your java console and one way only to configure experience kind of bears this out. But we don't know if it will be that bad. They could do a good job with this, even if it is somewhat automated. They've got some really smart people working for them. I would say, continue with your plans (as you said you were going to) and don't get depressed! Watch for black/white thinking, over-reacting, generalizing etc. Those can lead to depression Priscilla Sorry for the depressing post, just wanted to share. Charles The Long and Winding Road wrote in message [EMAIL PROTECTED]">news:[EMAIL PROTECTED]... Been spending this weekend on what was once the Cisco Advanced SE Training ( ASET ) set of labs. These are available for those whose Cisco account team approves - there are a few conditions which can be found in the wee places of certification training. The program is run by Lab Gear ( the only link I have is www.labgear.net, but this is a login page ) There are a number of labs of CCIE level, look, and feel. Supposed to be real equipment, but the access is via java script windows, not terminal emulation. This makes for some interesting situations. The windows show or provide output only when they are active. So if you had two router sessions open, and you made changes on one router that would generate systems messages of one sort or another you would not see those messages on the other. also, I have yet to find a way to generate output from debugging commands. Things like term mon and logging of one kind or another have not been successful. so no debug ip routing and debug ip ospf adj. As with the real lab, there are a series of tasks to be completed. Grading is done via a script. This is the point of most interest. Actually, I suspect a lot of the current CCIE Lab grading is done using scripting tools. I believe the proctors still physically examine equipment configurations for some things, but I could be wrong. It is of interest because to judge from the script outputs I am seeing, there appears to be an assumption that there is one and only one way to do things. I'm not sure this is always true. I am not sure that this results in an entirely accurate grade. But more importantly, given my experience with the java consoles and the manner in which these labs must be done, I am not sure I like where this is headed. Something Brian Dennis and Brad Ellis and some other people started talking about back when the CCIE Lab went from two days to one - something about the longer term goal being to do the test remotely, and having people show up at Sylvan or some other testing center and log in remotely. If the Lab Gear approach is any indication, this is not ready for real live testing. I experienced far too many problems with terminal ( javascript ) sessions disconnecting mysteriously. With 8 open windows, it sometimes got to be very hard to find the session ( router ) I was looking for. Cut and paste is a real pain. You have to open a scratchpad window, which is associated with the javascript console window. cutting and pasting is done to this wind. there are scratchpad windows associated with each java wind, so if you had a scratchpad open for every router session, that makes for a LOT of junk to fight your way through looking for what you want. then there is the problem of actually moving what you want to copy and paste. highlight and control c control v or alt e paste don't work. you have to click on buttons on the java consoles to copy to and from routers. beyond that, there is the problems of whether or not the script answer is the right answer. For example, in one lab, a particular instruction requires that the rip routers on a particular segment have to use the neighbor statement to see eachother ( and prevent other routers on that segment from joining into the RIP domain ) well, the problem is, one of those routers is connected to another RIP router via a different interface. need a neighbor statement there too, but the script does not
Re: CCIE Lab - I have seen he future and it is.... [7:62776]
actually, i think you have it backwardsthe CCNP of tomorrow will be the CCIE of todayCCC tests are getting harder...the bar is being raised if what you state is truly the way you truly feel, then you were in pursuit of the CCIE for the wrong reason in the first place. sorry you're so depressed. Charles Riley wrote in message [EMAIL PROTECTED]">news:[EMAIL PROTECTED]... Chuck, Your post reminds me of those weird little ice cream stands that I sometimes see at the mall and various carnivals. It's called something like Dipping Dots - The Ice Cream of the Future. The initial human instinct is much like the Cro-Magnon humanoids encountering the monolith at the beginning of 2001: A Space Odyssey (sp): jump up and down with excitement until you realize it's just freeze dried ice cream. Rounding out that analogy, the CCIE of the future will probably be reduced to being the CCNP of today. Regardless, I have spent too much time and money to abandon the quest for CCIE now, but frankly, if I hadn't invested as much as I have, I would most likely abandon the quest in favor of broadening into other areas. I really don't see much market value for the CCIE anymore, especially with Cisco hellbent on making it a meatgrinding cash cow. Your java console and one way only to configure experience kind of bears this out. Sorry for the depressing post, just wanted to share. Charles The Long and Winding Road wrote in message [EMAIL PROTECTED]">news:[EMAIL PROTECTED]... Been spending this weekend on what was once the Cisco Advanced SE Training ( ASET ) set of labs. These are available for those whose Cisco account team approves - there are a few conditions which can be found in the wee places of certification training. The program is run by Lab Gear ( the only link I have is www.labgear.net, but this is a login page ) There are a number of labs of CCIE level, look, and feel. Supposed to be real equipment, but the access is via java script windows, not terminal emulation. This makes for some interesting situations. The windows show or provide output only when they are active. So if you had two router sessions open, and you made changes on one router that would generate systems messages of one sort or another you would not see those messages on the other. also, I have yet to find a way to generate output from debugging commands. Things like term mon and logging of one kind or another have not been successful. so no debug ip routing and debug ip ospf adj. As with the real lab, there are a series of tasks to be completed. Grading is done via a script. This is the point of most interest. Actually, I suspect a lot of the current CCIE Lab grading is done using scripting tools. I believe the proctors still physically examine equipment configurations for some things, but I could be wrong. It is of interest because to judge from the script outputs I am seeing, there appears to be an assumption that there is one and only one way to do things. I'm not sure this is always true. I am not sure that this results in an entirely accurate grade. But more importantly, given my experience with the java consoles and the manner in which these labs must be done, I am not sure I like where this is headed. Something Brian Dennis and Brad Ellis and some other people started talking about back when the CCIE Lab went from two days to one - something about the longer term goal being to do the test remotely, and having people show up at Sylvan or some other testing center and log in remotely. If the Lab Gear approach is any indication, this is not ready for real live testing. I experienced far too many problems with terminal ( javascript ) sessions disconnecting mysteriously. With 8 open windows, it sometimes got to be very hard to find the session ( router ) I was looking for. Cut and paste is a real pain. You have to open a scratchpad window, which is associated with the javascript console window. cutting and pasting is done to this wind. there are scratchpad windows associated with each java wind, so if you had a scratchpad open for every router session, that makes for a LOT of junk to fight your way through looking for what you want. then there is the problem of actually moving what you want to copy and paste. highlight and control c control v or alt e paste don't work. you have to click on buttons on the java consoles to copy to and from routers. beyond that, there is the problems of whether or not the script answer is the right answer. For example, in one lab, a particular instruction requires that the rip routers on a particular segment have to use the neighbor statement to see eachother ( and prevent other routers on that segment from joining into the RIP domain ) well, the problem is, one of those routers is connected to another RIP router via a different interface. need a
