Re: [ANN] verily, non-magic testing lib

2013-07-25 Thread Mayank Jain
Thanks for sharing.
Will check it out.


On Fri, Jul 26, 2013 at 1:17 AM, Steven Degutis sbdegu...@gmail.com wrote:

 - Renamed project to Nevermore
 - Moved repo to https://github.com/evanescence/nevermore
 - Test functions are required to return all assertions as a seq
 - Added around-each fixtures

 The way fixtures and test-suites work (and work together) makes me think
 of Datomic.

 -Steven


 On Wed, Jul 24, 2013 at 10:22 AM, Steven Degutis sbdegu...@gmail.comwrote:

 Also, I came up with a solution for simple around-each fixtures. It would
 use a declarative style just like (defn ^:test ...), but it would be (defn
 ^:around-each ...). And its metadata would contain a matcher-fn that
 matches against a test-fn's metadata.

 This way you could define a bunch of tests marked ^:db, and have an
 around-each fixture with :db as its matcher.

 The de-coupling means you don't need grouping or nesting to have multiple
 fixtures applied to multiple tests. It also means you can specify both
 tests and fixtures on a per-feature level.

 Unfortunately this solution does't carry over to around-all fixtures,
 because if several tests belong to multiple around-all fixtures, and not
 the same ones either, they would have to be run multiple times.


 On Wed, Jul 24, 2013 at 10:17 AM, Steven Degutis sbdegu...@gmail.comwrote:

 The vast majority of my tests look like: do some setup, do some action,
 make a half-dozen assertions. Almost always in that order.

 The only reason I can think of that I would need to have assertions in
 the middle is if I plan to do more setup and action and assertions
 afterwards.

 And in that case, I'm really just writing a second test that should
 probably be its own test-fn. And if it relies on the setup from the first
 test, I should probably just extract it out into a function with common
 setup.

 I think I'm almost sold on this idea now.


 On Wed, Jul 24, 2013 at 10:07 AM, John D. Hume duelin.mark...@gmail.com
  wrote:

 I've never tried it, but I like the idea of test fns returning their
 results.

 On Jul 24, 2013 8:30 AM, Steven Degutis sbdegu...@gmail.com wrote:
 
  Also, I've been considering having a non-side-effecty way of
 returning test results. What do people think? It would get rid of the last
 bit of magic in the lib.
 
 
  ;; current style (side-effecty)
 
  (defn test-1 []
(let [foo (get-foo)]
  (expect empty? foo)
  (expect awesome? foo)))
 
  ;; proposed style (more functional)
 
  (defn test-1 []
(let [foo (get-foo)]
  [(expect empty? foo)
   (expect awesome? foo)]))
 

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Regards,
Mayank.

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Re: [ANN] verily, non-magic testing lib

2013-07-24 Thread Steven Degutis
It's been brought to my attention that this project is an utter waste of
time, brings no real improvement over the existing solutions, and was
wrought in complete arrogance. So I've deleted the project. Sorry for
wasting a thread on this.


On Wed, Jul 24, 2013 at 12:30 AM, Steven Degutis sbdegu...@gmail.comwrote:

 Whoops. Looks like I didn't check the namespace well enough, there's
 already a lib called verily. (Sorry Justin.)

 Will think up a new name soon.


 On Tue, Jul 23, 2013 at 11:55 PM, Steven Degutis sbdegu...@gmail.comwrote:

 https://github.com/evanescence/verily

 Verily is a new testing lib with a few goals:

- Build off existing Clojure concepts (functions, vars, etc)
- Be as functional/immutable as possible
- Be easy to use from terminal or REPL
- Have composable pieces that are easy to swap out
- Keep running tests separate from reporting the results


 Some upcoming features:

- Some convenience functions for assertions
- Better reports

 -Steven




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Re: [ANN] verily, non-magic testing lib

2013-07-24 Thread Meikel Brandmeyer (kotarak)

Am Mittwoch, 24. Juli 2013 08:14:15 UTC+2 schrieb Steven Degutis:

 It's been brought to my attention that this project is an utter waste of 
 time, brings no real improvement over the existing solutions, and was 
 wrought in complete arrogance. So I've deleted the project. Sorry for 
 wasting a thread on this.


Wat? Don't let yourself be pushed by self-proclaimed project guardians. If 
you saw any use of your library, then by-all-means you should continue it! 
Even if there are other libraries already, you'll maybe come up with the 
cool new feature. Who knows. The worst that can happen is that you learned 
yourself a lot about doing things. And that is always a win.

From your message I get the impression that the act of bringing things to 
your attention was done in a rather non-diplomatic way. Feel free to make 
things public in such a case (maybe the case itself, not the names of the 
people involved). I don't think that this an appropriate behaviour for a 
community like clojure's. Especially since it is not done in public. It is 
absolutely arrogant to judge other people's projects in such a way. The 
other person has no right whatsoever to tell you which projects you should 
pursue and which not.

Meikel

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Re: [ANN] verily, non-magic testing lib

2013-07-24 Thread Jay Fields
I've never spoken to Steven in anything that wasn't a public email to this
list, so it wasn't me. I'm not sure who the self-proclaimed project
guardians are, but I just wanted to make sure no one thought I was trying
to protect https://github.com/jaycfields/expectations in anyway.

I don't actually think there's much value in unifying the infrastructure,
but I agree with Meikel that no one has the right to tell you what you can
and cannot work on. My *opinion* is that it's a waste of your (Steven's)
time, but it costs me nothing for you (Steven) to try. If I'm wrong then we
all benefit, which is obviously a good thing. I mean, we're all here
because Rich wanted something better, right?

That said, if all you want is the ability to run the different styles of
tests side by side, start sending pull requests to align the internals of
the 3. I can't imagine any of Brian, Micah, and I would have a problem with
you tweaking internals that might allow more people to use our software.


On Wed, Jul 24, 2013 at 7:31 AM, Meikel Brandmeyer (kotarak) 
m...@kotka.dewrote:


 Am Mittwoch, 24. Juli 2013 08:14:15 UTC+2 schrieb Steven Degutis:

 It's been brought to my attention that this project is an utter waste of
 time, brings no real improvement over the existing solutions, and was
 wrought in complete arrogance. So I've deleted the project. Sorry for
 wasting a thread on this.


 Wat? Don't let yourself be pushed by self-proclaimed project guardians. If
 you saw any use of your library, then by-all-means you should continue it!
 Even if there are other libraries already, you'll maybe come up with the
 cool new feature. Who knows. The worst that can happen is that you learned
 yourself a lot about doing things. And that is always a win.

 From your message I get the impression that the act of bringing things to
 your attention was done in a rather non-diplomatic way. Feel free to make
 things public in such a case (maybe the case itself, not the names of the
 people involved). I don't think that this an appropriate behaviour for a
 community like clojure's. Especially since it is not done in public. It is
 absolutely arrogant to judge other people's projects in such a way. The
 other person has no right whatsoever to tell you which projects you should
 pursue and which not.

 Meikel

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Re: [ANN] verily, non-magic testing lib

2013-07-24 Thread Steven Degutis
First, the goal of Verily was not the same as Test2. It wasn't intended to
unify any existing test libs. It was really just meant to succeed
clojure.test in spirit. That's all.

Second, nobody bullied me into this decision. Some people asked how
Verily improved upon the alternatives, and, try as I might, I couldn't come
up with any good answer. That's how I realized that the project was
pointless, a waste of time, and was wrought in arrogance.

But, whether it really is useful to anyone else, that's not my decision to
make. So I'm putting it back up and letting the community be the judge of
that. https://github.com/evanescence/verily -- I'll still rename it though,
soon.

-Steven


On Wed, Jul 24, 2013 at 6:46 AM, Jay Fields j...@jayfields.com wrote:

 I've never spoken to Steven in anything that wasn't a public email to this
 list, so it wasn't me. I'm not sure who the self-proclaimed project
 guardians are, but I just wanted to make sure no one thought I was trying
 to protect https://github.com/jaycfields/expectations in anyway.

 I don't actually think there's much value in unifying the infrastructure,
 but I agree with Meikel that no one has the right to tell you what you can
 and cannot work on. My *opinion* is that it's a waste of your (Steven's)
 time, but it costs me nothing for you (Steven) to try. If I'm wrong then we
 all benefit, which is obviously a good thing. I mean, we're all here
 because Rich wanted something better, right?

 That said, if all you want is the ability to run the different styles of
 tests side by side, start sending pull requests to align the internals of
 the 3. I can't imagine any of Brian, Micah, and I would have a problem with
 you tweaking internals that might allow more people to use our software.


 On Wed, Jul 24, 2013 at 7:31 AM, Meikel Brandmeyer (kotarak) 
 m...@kotka.dewrote:


 Am Mittwoch, 24. Juli 2013 08:14:15 UTC+2 schrieb Steven Degutis:

 It's been brought to my attention that this project is an utter waste of
 time, brings no real improvement over the existing solutions, and was
 wrought in complete arrogance. So I've deleted the project. Sorry for
 wasting a thread on this.


 Wat? Don't let yourself be pushed by self-proclaimed project guardians.
 If you saw any use of your library, then by-all-means you should continue
 it! Even if there are other libraries already, you'll maybe come up with
 the cool new feature. Who knows. The worst that can happen is that you
 learned yourself a lot about doing things. And that is always a win.

 From your message I get the impression that the act of bringing things
 to your attention was done in a rather non-diplomatic way. Feel free to
 make things public in such a case (maybe the case itself, not the names of
 the people involved). I don't think that this an appropriate behaviour for
 a community like clojure's. Especially since it is not done in public. It
 is absolutely arrogant to judge other people's projects in such a way. The
 other person has no right whatsoever to tell you which projects you should
 pursue and which not.

 Meikel

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Re: [ANN] verily, non-magic testing lib

2013-07-24 Thread Steven Degutis
Also, I've been considering having a non-side-effecty way of returning test
results. What do people think? It would get rid of the last bit of magic in
the lib.

;; current style (side-effecty)

(defn test-1 []
  (let [foo (get-foo)]
(expect empty? foo)
(expect awesome? foo)))

;; proposed style (more functional)

(defn test-1 []
  (let [foo (get-foo)]
[(expect empty? foo)
 (expect awesome? foo)]))



On Wed, Jul 24, 2013 at 8:16 AM, Steven Degutis sbdegu...@gmail.com wrote:

 First, the goal of Verily was not the same as Test2. It wasn't intended to
 unify any existing test libs. It was really just meant to succeed
 clojure.test in spirit. That's all.

 Second, nobody bullied me into this decision. Some people asked how
 Verily improved upon the alternatives, and, try as I might, I couldn't come
 up with any good answer. That's how I realized that the project was
 pointless, a waste of time, and was wrought in arrogance.

 But, whether it really is useful to anyone else, that's not my decision to
 make. So I'm putting it back up and letting the community be the judge of
 that. https://github.com/evanescence/verily -- I'll still rename it
 though, soon.

 -Steven


 On Wed, Jul 24, 2013 at 6:46 AM, Jay Fields j...@jayfields.com wrote:

 I've never spoken to Steven in anything that wasn't a public email to
 this list, so it wasn't me. I'm not sure who the self-proclaimed project
 guardians are, but I just wanted to make sure no one thought I was trying
 to protect https://github.com/jaycfields/expectations in anyway.

 I don't actually think there's much value in unifying the infrastructure,
 but I agree with Meikel that no one has the right to tell you what you can
 and cannot work on. My *opinion* is that it's a waste of your (Steven's)
 time, but it costs me nothing for you (Steven) to try. If I'm wrong then we
 all benefit, which is obviously a good thing. I mean, we're all here
 because Rich wanted something better, right?

 That said, if all you want is the ability to run the different styles of
 tests side by side, start sending pull requests to align the internals of
 the 3. I can't imagine any of Brian, Micah, and I would have a problem with
 you tweaking internals that might allow more people to use our software.


 On Wed, Jul 24, 2013 at 7:31 AM, Meikel Brandmeyer (kotarak) m...@kotka.de
  wrote:


 Am Mittwoch, 24. Juli 2013 08:14:15 UTC+2 schrieb Steven Degutis:

 It's been brought to my attention that this project is an utter waste
 of time, brings no real improvement over the existing solutions, and was
 wrought in complete arrogance. So I've deleted the project. Sorry for
 wasting a thread on this.


 Wat? Don't let yourself be pushed by self-proclaimed project guardians.
 If you saw any use of your library, then by-all-means you should continue
 it! Even if there are other libraries already, you'll maybe come up with
 the cool new feature. Who knows. The worst that can happen is that you
 learned yourself a lot about doing things. And that is always a win.

 From your message I get the impression that the act of bringing things
 to your attention was done in a rather non-diplomatic way. Feel free to
 make things public in such a case (maybe the case itself, not the names of
 the people involved). I don't think that this an appropriate behaviour for
 a community like clojure's. Especially since it is not done in public. It
 is absolutely arrogant to judge other people's projects in such a way. The
 other person has no right whatsoever to tell you which projects you should
 pursue and which not.

 Meikel

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Re: [ANN] verily, non-magic testing lib

2013-07-24 Thread John D. Hume
I've never tried it, but I like the idea of test fns returning their
results.

On Jul 24, 2013 8:30 AM, Steven Degutis sbdegu...@gmail.com wrote:

 Also, I've been considering having a non-side-effecty way of returning
test results. What do people think? It would get rid of the last bit of
magic in the lib.


 ;; current style (side-effecty)

 (defn test-1 []
   (let [foo (get-foo)]
 (expect empty? foo)
 (expect awesome? foo)))

 ;; proposed style (more functional)

 (defn test-1 []
   (let [foo (get-foo)]
 [(expect empty? foo)
  (expect awesome? foo)]))


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Re: [ANN] verily, non-magic testing lib

2013-07-24 Thread Steven Degutis
The vast majority of my tests look like: do some setup, do some action,
make a half-dozen assertions. Almost always in that order.

The only reason I can think of that I would need to have assertions in the
middle is if I plan to do more setup and action and assertions afterwards.

And in that case, I'm really just writing a second test that should
probably be its own test-fn. And if it relies on the setup from the first
test, I should probably just extract it out into a function with common
setup.

I think I'm almost sold on this idea now.


On Wed, Jul 24, 2013 at 10:07 AM, John D. Hume duelin.mark...@gmail.comwrote:

 I've never tried it, but I like the idea of test fns returning their
 results.

 On Jul 24, 2013 8:30 AM, Steven Degutis sbdegu...@gmail.com wrote:
 
  Also, I've been considering having a non-side-effecty way of returning
 test results. What do people think? It would get rid of the last bit of
 magic in the lib.
 
 
  ;; current style (side-effecty)
 
  (defn test-1 []
(let [foo (get-foo)]
  (expect empty? foo)
  (expect awesome? foo)))
 
  ;; proposed style (more functional)
 
  (defn test-1 []
(let [foo (get-foo)]
  [(expect empty? foo)
   (expect awesome? foo)]))
 

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Re: [ANN] verily, non-magic testing lib

2013-07-24 Thread Steven Degutis
Also, I came up with a solution for simple around-each fixtures. It would
use a declarative style just like (defn ^:test ...), but it would be (defn
^:around-each ...). And its metadata would contain a matcher-fn that
matches against a test-fn's metadata.

This way you could define a bunch of tests marked ^:db, and have an
around-each fixture with :db as its matcher.

The de-coupling means you don't need grouping or nesting to have multiple
fixtures applied to multiple tests. It also means you can specify both
tests and fixtures on a per-feature level.

Unfortunately this solution does't carry over to around-all fixtures,
because if several tests belong to multiple around-all fixtures, and not
the same ones either, they would have to be run multiple times.


On Wed, Jul 24, 2013 at 10:17 AM, Steven Degutis sbdegu...@gmail.comwrote:

 The vast majority of my tests look like: do some setup, do some action,
 make a half-dozen assertions. Almost always in that order.

 The only reason I can think of that I would need to have assertions in the
 middle is if I plan to do more setup and action and assertions afterwards.

 And in that case, I'm really just writing a second test that should
 probably be its own test-fn. And if it relies on the setup from the first
 test, I should probably just extract it out into a function with common
 setup.

 I think I'm almost sold on this idea now.


 On Wed, Jul 24, 2013 at 10:07 AM, John D. Hume 
 duelin.mark...@gmail.comwrote:

 I've never tried it, but I like the idea of test fns returning their
 results.

 On Jul 24, 2013 8:30 AM, Steven Degutis sbdegu...@gmail.com wrote:
 
  Also, I've been considering having a non-side-effecty way of returning
 test results. What do people think? It would get rid of the last bit of
 magic in the lib.
 
 
  ;; current style (side-effecty)
 
  (defn test-1 []
(let [foo (get-foo)]
  (expect empty? foo)
  (expect awesome? foo)))
 
  ;; proposed style (more functional)
 
  (defn test-1 []
(let [foo (get-foo)]
  [(expect empty? foo)
   (expect awesome? foo)]))
 

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[ANN] verily, non-magic testing lib

2013-07-23 Thread Steven Degutis
https://github.com/evanescence/verily

Verily is a new testing lib with a few goals:

   - Build off existing Clojure concepts (functions, vars, etc)
   - Be as functional/immutable as possible
   - Be easy to use from terminal or REPL
   - Have composable pieces that are easy to swap out
   - Keep running tests separate from reporting the results


Some upcoming features:

   - Some convenience functions for assertions
   - Better reports

-Steven

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Re: [ANN] verily, non-magic testing lib

2013-07-23 Thread Steven Degutis
Whoops. Looks like I didn't check the namespace well enough, there's
already a lib called verily. (Sorry Justin.)

Will think up a new name soon.


On Tue, Jul 23, 2013 at 11:55 PM, Steven Degutis sbdegu...@gmail.comwrote:

 https://github.com/evanescence/verily

 Verily is a new testing lib with a few goals:

- Build off existing Clojure concepts (functions, vars, etc)
- Be as functional/immutable as possible
- Be easy to use from terminal or REPL
- Have composable pieces that are easy to swap out
- Keep running tests separate from reporting the results


 Some upcoming features:

- Some convenience functions for assertions
- Better reports

 -Steven


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