Re: Stus-List 37+ Bilge pump
Please note, the smaller Rule-Mate Pumps I've listed (the 500, the 750 and the 1100) are NOT the type that does a test run every few minutes. The larger Rule-Mates, the Electromechanical Rule Mate I series, are available in 1500 2000 sizes but won't fit to the bottom of the bilge in the CC 37/40+ XL. The 500, the 750 and the 1100 Rule-Mate uses a solid state water level sensor built into the pump body so it only starts to run if 2 or more of water are present. Also, It won't start running if your bilge is full of diesel instead of water, the sensor can differentiate between them. Ken H. S/V Salazar - CC 37/40XL Cape Breton Island Nova Scotia, Canada On 23 March 2015 at 08:19, Ken Heaton kenhea...@gmail.com wrote: Hi Josh, I take it this is what you use? - Yes, seems to work well. Do you ever find that it runs non-stop? - Occasionally, I don't leave it on when I'm not on the boat. I am considering installing a 2nd larger pump higher up with a separate run of discharge hose with a float switch I can leave on all the time. The one I have now is under hosed (3/4) from the factory with a check valve as this pump will get down to the last 1/2 of water in the bilge. Does it ever get submerged, particularly the wires? - Yes Do you recall if the wires were tinned? - I think they AREN'T tinned. Ken H. S/V Salazar - CC 37/40XL Cape Breton Island Nova Scotia, Canada On 23 March 2015 at 07:06, Josh Muckley via CnC-List cnc-list@cnc-list.com wrote: Ken, I took a look. I take it this is what you use? Do you ever find that it runs non-stop? Does it ever get submerged, particularly the wires? Do you recall if the wires were tinned? Josh On Mar 23, 2015 5:55 AM, Ken Heaton kenhea...@gmail.com wrote: Hi Josh, You do have another option. The Rule-Mate RM1100A will fit in your bilge. http://www.xylemflowcontrol.com/files/RM500A_750A_1100A_SS_950-0595.pdf Ken H. On 23 March 2015 at 06:44, Josh Muckley via CnC-List cnc-list@cnc-list.com wrote: The bildge in mine is pretty narrow and deep so the largest pump I can easily fit is a Rule 800 that is square. It fills the footprint of the well. There isn't a good place for the switch except for almost directly above the pump. It is a flipper style. 2 years ago I replaced the original (to me) Rule 800 with a Rule 500 w/rulematic controller and also kept the float/flipper switch. I also rewired everything. Frustrating though was that the new SUBMERSIBLE Rule 500 pump did not have tinned wires! And the gauge was less than desired at about 18awg. I read a lot about solder not being acceptable but don't trust crimps as much as solder. I used my best Electronic Technician's training from the Navy to solder all the pump's leads and used adhesive lined heat shrink to seal the connections. I also think I used 14awg. The flipper switch is wired so that even with the OFF-1-ALL-2 switch in OFF the flipper will still actuate the pump. The on/off switch for the pump is on the switch panel and wired such that ON actuate the rulematic sensor which will run the pump until no more water is in the bildge. It automatically senses that it is doing less work (less current) and then shuts off. After 2 minutes it tests by starting for a moment and measuring the current draw. If the pump is doing work (more current) then it runs until the water is gone and the cycle starts over again. So ON is really AUTO. Unfortunately I have found the pump running non-stop in ON so I have never really used the auto feature. I attempted to correct the back flow problem with a large check valve placed very close to the pump discharge. It still isn't perfect so I just turn it on and then turn it off while I'm there and let the float do it's job while I'm gone. This means that the pump stays submerged for a large majority of it's life because the flipper is mounted above the pump. I have considered using 2 pumps. The gusher 320 for getting to the deepest part of the bildge. And a larger 1000 or 1500gph Rule mounted above the sensor for the gusher. During normal operation the gusher would run in auto using a new level switch and keep the larger pump from becoming submerged. If something were to cause an increase in the water level then the larger pump would actuate and prevent floading/sinking. Josh Muckley S/V Sea Hawk 1989 CC 37+ Solomons, MD On Mar 23, 2015 1:45 AM, David Blair via CnC-List cnc-list@cnc-list.com wrote: I find that since there is a lift of a few feet to the discharge level the integral switch causes the pump to spend its time (and my electrical energy) pumping the same litre or so of water up the discharge hose, waiting for it to trickle back, repumping it again, and so on. Inserting a backflow preventer slows the process somewhat but not entirely. Other than plumbing the discharge into the galley drain so the outflow is minimized I am not sure how to stop the constant
Re: Stus-List 37+ Bilge pump
One additional thing that I do; remove my bilge pump and switch to above the floor boards during winter storage and flush the pump with a 50/50 mix of ethylene gycol and water and leave the bottom end of the pump submerged in the same mix...I think that helps to keep the pump in good shape for next season Dwight Veinot CC 35 MKII, *Alianna* Head of St. Margaret's Bay, NS d.ve...@bellaliant.net On Mon, Mar 23, 2015 at 9:12 AM, Dennis C. via CnC-List cnc-list@cnc-list.com wrote: Thoughts on bilge pumps. First, I'm rewiring a boat that has one of those auto switch pumps. Every 5 minutes or so it whirs and stops. Drives me nuts. Can't imagine sleeping on a boat with one of those installed. How I wire a bilge pump. First, install a Rule 43 3 way bilge switch in a convenient and protected location. Power it from one of the battery connections on the back side of your main battery switch. I usually connect it to the house bank. If you can find it, Ancor make some nice 14/3 AWG bilge pump cable. Run that or two positives and a single negative to the bilge. Use a round Rule pump of your choice and strap an Ultra Safety Systems Mini Bilge Pump switch to it. http://www.amazon.com/Ultra-Safety-Systems-Switch-UPS-06-12/dp/B00CGJS4PQ You will have a very nice and very reliable bilge pump system. Dennis C. Touche' 35-1 #83 Mandeville, LA ___ Email address: CnC-List@cnc-list.com To change your list preferences, including unsubscribing -- go to the bottom of page at: http://cnc-list.com/mailman/listinfo/cnc-list_cnc-list.com ___ Email address: CnC-List@cnc-list.com To change your list preferences, including unsubscribing -- go to the bottom of page at: http://cnc-list.com/mailman/listinfo/cnc-list_cnc-list.com
Re: Stus-List 37+ Bilge pump
Hi Josh, I take it this is what you use? - Yes, seems to work well. Do you ever find that it runs non-stop? - Occasionally, I don't leave it on when I'm not on the boat. I am considering installing a 2nd larger pump higher up with a separate run of discharge hose with a float switch I can leave on all the time. The one I have now is under hosed (3/4) from the factory with a check valve as this pump will get down to the last 1/2 of water in the bilge. Does it ever get submerged, particularly the wires? - Yes Do you recall if the wires were tinned? - I think they AREN'T tinned. Ken H. S/V Salazar - CC 37/40XL Cape Breton Island Nova Scotia, Canada On 23 March 2015 at 07:06, Josh Muckley via CnC-List cnc-list@cnc-list.com wrote: Ken, I took a look. I take it this is what you use? Do you ever find that it runs non-stop? Does it ever get submerged, particularly the wires? Do you recall if the wires were tinned? Josh On Mar 23, 2015 5:55 AM, Ken Heaton kenhea...@gmail.com wrote: Hi Josh, You do have another option. The Rule-Mate RM1100A will fit in your bilge. http://www.xylemflowcontrol.com/files/RM500A_750A_1100A_SS_950-0595.pdf Ken H. On 23 March 2015 at 06:44, Josh Muckley via CnC-List cnc-list@cnc-list.com wrote: The bildge in mine is pretty narrow and deep so the largest pump I can easily fit is a Rule 800 that is square. It fills the footprint of the well. There isn't a good place for the switch except for almost directly above the pump. It is a flipper style. 2 years ago I replaced the original (to me) Rule 800 with a Rule 500 w/rulematic controller and also kept the float/flipper switch. I also rewired everything. Frustrating though was that the new SUBMERSIBLE Rule 500 pump did not have tinned wires! And the gauge was less than desired at about 18awg. I read a lot about solder not being acceptable but don't trust crimps as much as solder. I used my best Electronic Technician's training from the Navy to solder all the pump's leads and used adhesive lined heat shrink to seal the connections. I also think I used 14awg. The flipper switch is wired so that even with the OFF-1-ALL-2 switch in OFF the flipper will still actuate the pump. The on/off switch for the pump is on the switch panel and wired such that ON actuate the rulematic sensor which will run the pump until no more water is in the bildge. It automatically senses that it is doing less work (less current) and then shuts off. After 2 minutes it tests by starting for a moment and measuring the current draw. If the pump is doing work (more current) then it runs until the water is gone and the cycle starts over again. So ON is really AUTO. Unfortunately I have found the pump running non-stop in ON so I have never really used the auto feature. I attempted to correct the back flow problem with a large check valve placed very close to the pump discharge. It still isn't perfect so I just turn it on and then turn it off while I'm there and let the float do it's job while I'm gone. This means that the pump stays submerged for a large majority of it's life because the flipper is mounted above the pump. I have considered using 2 pumps. The gusher 320 for getting to the deepest part of the bildge. And a larger 1000 or 1500gph Rule mounted above the sensor for the gusher. During normal operation the gusher would run in auto using a new level switch and keep the larger pump from becoming submerged. If something were to cause an increase in the water level then the larger pump would actuate and prevent floading/sinking. Josh Muckley S/V Sea Hawk 1989 CC 37+ Solomons, MD On Mar 23, 2015 1:45 AM, David Blair via CnC-List cnc-list@cnc-list.com wrote: I find that since there is a lift of a few feet to the discharge level the integral switch causes the pump to spend its time (and my electrical energy) pumping the same litre or so of water up the discharge hose, waiting for it to trickle back, repumping it again, and so on. Inserting a backflow preventer slows the process somewhat but not entirely. Other than plumbing the discharge into the galley drain so the outflow is minimized I am not sure how to stop the constant recycling. The integral switch doesn’t seem to have any option for adjustment and I am don’t see how a separate switch would be any different unless it was placed higher than the pump. My boat (34+) has a small collection area – maybe a litre of water in the bilge. The only source of outside water is rain down the mast, so this is a periodic problem. Any solutions or suggestions? *From:* CnC-List [mailto:cnc-list-boun...@cnc-list.com] *On Behalf Of *Jake Brodersen via CnC-List *Sent:* Sunday, March 22, 2015 6:27 PM *To:* sam.c.sal...@gmail.com; cnc-list@cnc-list.com *Subject:* Re: Stus-List 37+ Bilge pump Sam, The integral switches are “interesting”. Most of them spin the pump impeller at regular intervals. If they
Re: Stus-List 37+ Bilge pump
Thoughts on bilge pumps. First, I'm rewiring a boat that has one of those auto switch pumps. Every 5 minutes or so it whirs and stops. Drives me nuts. Can't imagine sleeping on a boat with one of those installed. How I wire a bilge pump. First, install a Rule 43 3 way bilge switch in a convenient and protected location. Power it from one of the battery connections on the back side of your main battery switch. I usually connect it to the house bank. If you can find it, Ancor make some nice 14/3 AWG bilge pump cable. Run that or two positives and a single negative to the bilge. Use a round Rule pump of your choice and strap an Ultra Safety Systems Mini Bilge Pump switch to it. http://www.amazon.com/Ultra-Safety-Systems-Switch-UPS-06-12/dp/B00CGJS4PQ You will have a very nice and very reliable bilge pump system. Dennis C. Touche' 35-1 #83 Mandeville, LA ___ Email address: CnC-List@cnc-list.com To change your list preferences, including unsubscribing -- go to the bottom of page at: http://cnc-list.com/mailman/listinfo/cnc-list_cnc-list.com
Stus-List Landfall 43 ketch owners
I'm in the process of buying a 1984 Landfall 43 with a ketch rig. I'd really like to find other owners, in order to compare notes. Are there any on the west coast of the USA, or anywhere else? -- Bill Mania ___ Email address: CnC-List@cnc-list.com To change your list preferences, including unsubscribing -- go to the bottom of page at: http://cnc-list.com/mailman/listinfo/cnc-list_cnc-list.com
Re: Stus-List 37+ Bilge pump
Thanks for the info. From the look of the picture I don’t know whether the setup will fit in my narrow bilge ( 3” wide), but there may be a way. Cheers From: CnC-List [mailto:cnc-list-boun...@cnc-list.com] On Behalf Of Dennis C. via CnC-List Sent: Monday, March 23, 2015 5:13 AM To: CnClist Subject: Re: Stus-List 37+ Bilge pump Thoughts on bilge pumps. First, I'm rewiring a boat that has one of those auto switch pumps. Every 5 minutes or so it whirs and stops. Drives me nuts. Can't imagine sleeping on a boat with one of those installed. How I wire a bilge pump. First, install a Rule 43 3 way bilge switch in a convenient and protected location. Power it from one of the battery connections on the back side of your main battery switch. I usually connect it to the house bank. If you can find it, Ancor make some nice 14/3 AWG bilge pump cable. Run that or two positives and a single negative to the bilge. Use a round Rule pump of your choice and strap an Ultra Safety Systems Mini Bilge Pump switch to it. http://www.amazon.com/Ultra-Safety-Systems-Switch-UPS-06-12/dp/B00CGJS4PQ You will have a very nice and very reliable bilge pump system. Dennis C. Touche' 35-1 #83 Mandeville, LA ___ Email address: CnC-List@cnc-list.com To change your list preferences, including unsubscribing -- go to the bottom of page at: http://cnc-list.com/mailman/listinfo/cnc-list_cnc-list.com
Re: Stus-List 37+ Bilge pump
Since purchasing this Enterprise about 10 years ago, I’ve gone through several automatic bilge pumps. Either the motor fails, never stops running or the float switch gets jammed. I’ve tried both the float switch and the automatic versions. I liked the idea of an automatic, especially if you have worries about through-hulls or stuffing boxes and don’t want to see your boat become a liquid asset, but that gets replaced with worries on if the pump is working correctly or is not always working and draining your battery system. And then I thought back to when I had the 1978 CC 34 (the Enterprise-A). When I got on board, I did my usual pre-check of all systems which included checking the bilge. If I saw water, I turned the pump on. When I heard air-sucking noises, I turned it off. Easier. Much easier. So last year, I just got rid of the automatic. I get on board, I check, I pump. Honestly, I like it much better. All the best, Edd Edd M. Schillay Starship Enterprise CC 37+ | Sail No: NCC-1701-B City Island, NY Starship Enterprise's Captain's Log http://enterpriseb.blogspot.com/ On Mar 23, 2015, at 12:35 PM, Jean-Francois J Rivard via CnC-List cnc-list@cnc-list.com wrote: I replaced my troublesome automatic Rule pump with Johnson 750 or 1000 gph / Water Witch switch combo. ( https://www.waterwitchinc.com/new/SiteElements/Pages/SecondaryPages/Products/BilgeSwitches.html https://www.waterwitchinc.com/new/SiteElements/Pages/SecondaryPages/Products/BilgeSwitches.html) Like yours. the way my sump is designed only the smaller pumps fit. The Rule pump had the stupid system that measures impeller resistance and with slightest amount of crap in the water, the impeller got fouled and made the pump run 24 / 7. The Water Witch is fool proof so far and the pump works fine. The only thing is: With the long run to the stern discharge the pump would not prime with the joker valve so I have to do without and a couple cups of water regurgitates in the sump after pumping.. The nice thing is with that sump design the rest of the bilge is bone dry and since we sail pretty often all year long, the water does not stay there long enough to smell. Eventually I'll get a little wet / dry vac to suck it up before we close the boat on Sunday night. Regards -Francois 1990 34+ Take Five Lake Lanier, GA ___ Email address: CnC-List@cnc-list.com To change your list preferences, including unsubscribing -- go to the bottom of page at: http://cnc-list.com/mailman/listinfo/cnc-list_cnc-list.com ___ Email address: CnC-List@cnc-list.com To change your list preferences, including unsubscribing -- go to the bottom of page at: http://cnc-list.com/mailman/listinfo/cnc-list_cnc-list.com
Re: Stus-List 37+ Bilge pump
Thanks. From: CnC-List [mailto:cnc-list-boun...@cnc-list.com] On Behalf Of Joel Aronson via CnC-List Sent: Monday, March 23, 2015 11:13 AM To: Danny Haughey; cnc-list@cnc-list.com Subject: Re: Stus-List 37+ Bilge pump On my 35/3 installed one of these: Whale Supersub Bilge Pump http://www.jamestowndistributors.com/userportal/show_product.do?pid=15042 http://www.jamestowndistributors.com/userportal/show_product.do?pid=15042familyName=Whale+Supersub+Bilge+Pump familyName=Whale+Supersub+Bilge+Pump with a Johnson automatic switch. Had to clean the crud off the switch, but otherwise no problems. Your sump can't be any smaller! Joel 35/3 Annapolis On Mon, Mar 23, 2015 at 2:05 PM, Danny Haughey via CnC-List cnc-list@cnc-list.com wrote: On my Viking, I installed 2 whale gusher pumps in a locker and just ran house down into the bilge. I did instal one flart switch in the sump to run one of the pumps automatically. I really liked that setup. The pumps stayed high and dry and there was less stuff in the bilge. From my Android phone Original message From: David Blair via CnC-List cnc-list@cnc-list.com Date: 03/23/2015 1:04 PM (GMT-05:00) To: 'Dennis C.' capt...@gmail.com,cnc-list@cnc-list.com Subject: Re: Stus-List 37+ Bilge pump Thanks for the info. From the look of the picture I don’t know whether the setup will fit in my narrow bilge ( 3” wide), but there may be a way. Cheers From: CnC-List [mailto:cnc-list-boun...@cnc-list.com] On Behalf Of Dennis C. via CnC-List Sent: Monday, March 23, 2015 5:13 AM To: CnClist Subject: Re: Stus-List 37+ Bilge pump Thoughts on bilge pumps. First, I'm rewiring a boat that has one of those auto switch pumps. Every 5 minutes or so it whirs and stops. Drives me nuts. Can't imagine sleeping on a boat with one of those installed. How I wire a bilge pump. First, install a Rule 43 3 way bilge switch in a convenient and protected location. Power it from one of the battery connections on the back side of your main battery switch. I usually connect it to the house bank. If you can find it, Ancor make some nice 14/3 AWG bilge pump cable. Run that or two positives and a single negative to the bilge. Use a round Rule pump of your choice and strap an Ultra Safety Systems Mini Bilge Pump switch to it. http://www.amazon.com/Ultra-Safety-Systems-Switch-UPS-06-12/dp/B00CGJS4PQ You will have a very nice and very reliable bilge pump system. Dennis C. Touche' 35-1 #83 Mandeville, LA ___ Email address: CnC-List@cnc-list.com To change your list preferences, including unsubscribing -- go to the bottom of page at: http://cnc-list.com/mailman/listinfo/cnc-list_cnc-list.com -- Joel 301 541 8551 ___ Email address: CnC-List@cnc-list.com To change your list preferences, including unsubscribing -- go to the bottom of page at: http://cnc-list.com/mailman/listinfo/cnc-list_cnc-list.com
Re: Stus-List 37+ Bilge pump
Ken, I took a look. I take it this is what you use? Do you ever find that it runs non-stop? Does it ever get submerged, particularly the wires? Do you recall if the wires were tinned? Josh On Mar 23, 2015 5:55 AM, Ken Heaton kenhea...@gmail.com wrote: Hi Josh, You do have another option. The Rule-Mate RM1100A will fit in your bilge. http://www.xylemflowcontrol.com/files/RM500A_750A_1100A_SS_950-0595.pdf Ken H. On 23 March 2015 at 06:44, Josh Muckley via CnC-List cnc-list@cnc-list.com wrote: The bildge in mine is pretty narrow and deep so the largest pump I can easily fit is a Rule 800 that is square. It fills the footprint of the well. There isn't a good place for the switch except for almost directly above the pump. It is a flipper style. 2 years ago I replaced the original (to me) Rule 800 with a Rule 500 w/rulematic controller and also kept the float/flipper switch. I also rewired everything. Frustrating though was that the new SUBMERSIBLE Rule 500 pump did not have tinned wires! And the gauge was less than desired at about 18awg. I read a lot about solder not being acceptable but don't trust crimps as much as solder. I used my best Electronic Technician's training from the Navy to solder all the pump's leads and used adhesive lined heat shrink to seal the connections. I also think I used 14awg. The flipper switch is wired so that even with the OFF-1-ALL-2 switch in OFF the flipper will still actuate the pump. The on/off switch for the pump is on the switch panel and wired such that ON actuate the rulematic sensor which will run the pump until no more water is in the bildge. It automatically senses that it is doing less work (less current) and then shuts off. After 2 minutes it tests by starting for a moment and measuring the current draw. If the pump is doing work (more current) then it runs until the water is gone and the cycle starts over again. So ON is really AUTO. Unfortunately I have found the pump running non-stop in ON so I have never really used the auto feature. I attempted to correct the back flow problem with a large check valve placed very close to the pump discharge. It still isn't perfect so I just turn it on and then turn it off while I'm there and let the float do it's job while I'm gone. This means that the pump stays submerged for a large majority of it's life because the flipper is mounted above the pump. I have considered using 2 pumps. The gusher 320 for getting to the deepest part of the bildge. And a larger 1000 or 1500gph Rule mounted above the sensor for the gusher. During normal operation the gusher would run in auto using a new level switch and keep the larger pump from becoming submerged. If something were to cause an increase in the water level then the larger pump would actuate and prevent floading/sinking. Josh Muckley S/V Sea Hawk 1989 CC 37+ Solomons, MD On Mar 23, 2015 1:45 AM, David Blair via CnC-List cnc-list@cnc-list.com wrote: I find that since there is a lift of a few feet to the discharge level the integral switch causes the pump to spend its time (and my electrical energy) pumping the same litre or so of water up the discharge hose, waiting for it to trickle back, repumping it again, and so on. Inserting a backflow preventer slows the process somewhat but not entirely. Other than plumbing the discharge into the galley drain so the outflow is minimized I am not sure how to stop the constant recycling. The integral switch doesn't seem to have any option for adjustment and I am don't see how a separate switch would be any different unless it was placed higher than the pump. My boat (34+) has a small collection area - maybe a litre of water in the bilge. The only source of outside water is rain down the mast, so this is a periodic problem. Any solutions or suggestions? *From:* CnC-List [mailto:cnc-list-boun...@cnc-list.com] *On Behalf Of *Jake Brodersen via CnC-List *Sent:* Sunday, March 22, 2015 6:27 PM *To:* sam.c.sal...@gmail.com; cnc-list@cnc-list.com *Subject:* Re: Stus-List 37+ Bilge pump Sam, The integral switches are interesting. Most of them spin the pump impeller at regular intervals. If they encounter resistance, they continue to run the pump until less resistance is encountered. There is nothing wrong with this approach, unless you can hear the pump from your bunk. I prefer pumps to be actuated by a switch than senses a need for the pump to run. Jake *Jake Brodersen* *Midnight Mistress* *CC 35 Mk-III* *Hampton VA* *From:* sam.c.sal...@gmail.com [mailto:sam.c.sal...@gmail.com sam.c.sal...@gmail.com] *Sent:* Sunday, March 22, 2015 7:11 PM *To:* cnc-list@cnc-list.com *Subject:* Re: Stus-List 37+ Bilge pump What about those solid state switches that are integral with the pump. Anyone have any experience with these? I've got a Whale pump like this, but haven't got around to installing it yet.
Re: Stus-List 37+ Bilge pump
Hi Josh, You do have another option. The Rule-Mate RM1100A will fit in your bilge. http://www.xylemflowcontrol.com/files/RM500A_750A_1100A_SS_950-0595.pdf Ken H. On 23 March 2015 at 06:44, Josh Muckley via CnC-List cnc-list@cnc-list.com wrote: The bildge in mine is pretty narrow and deep so the largest pump I can easily fit is a Rule 800 that is square. It fills the footprint of the well. There isn't a good place for the switch except for almost directly above the pump. It is a flipper style. 2 years ago I replaced the original (to me) Rule 800 with a Rule 500 w/rulematic controller and also kept the float/flipper switch. I also rewired everything. Frustrating though was that the new SUBMERSIBLE Rule 500 pump did not have tinned wires! And the gauge was less than desired at about 18awg. I read a lot about solder not being acceptable but don't trust crimps as much as solder. I used my best Electronic Technician's training from the Navy to solder all the pump's leads and used adhesive lined heat shrink to seal the connections. I also think I used 14awg. The flipper switch is wired so that even with the OFF-1-ALL-2 switch in OFF the flipper will still actuate the pump. The on/off switch for the pump is on the switch panel and wired such that ON actuate the rulematic sensor which will run the pump until no more water is in the bildge. It automatically senses that it is doing less work (less current) and then shuts off. After 2 minutes it tests by starting for a moment and measuring the current draw. If the pump is doing work (more current) then it runs until the water is gone and the cycle starts over again. So ON is really AUTO. Unfortunately I have found the pump running non-stop in ON so I have never really used the auto feature. I attempted to correct the back flow problem with a large check valve placed very close to the pump discharge. It still isn't perfect so I just turn it on and then turn it off while I'm there and let the float do it's job while I'm gone. This means that the pump stays submerged for a large majority of it's life because the flipper is mounted above the pump. I have considered using 2 pumps. The gusher 320 for getting to the deepest part of the bildge. And a larger 1000 or 1500gph Rule mounted above the sensor for the gusher. During normal operation the gusher would run in auto using a new level switch and keep the larger pump from becoming submerged. If something were to cause an increase in the water level then the larger pump would actuate and prevent floading/sinking. Josh Muckley S/V Sea Hawk 1989 CC 37+ Solomons, MD On Mar 23, 2015 1:45 AM, David Blair via CnC-List cnc-list@cnc-list.com wrote: I find that since there is a lift of a few feet to the discharge level the integral switch causes the pump to spend its time (and my electrical energy) pumping the same litre or so of water up the discharge hose, waiting for it to trickle back, repumping it again, and so on. Inserting a backflow preventer slows the process somewhat but not entirely. Other than plumbing the discharge into the galley drain so the outflow is minimized I am not sure how to stop the constant recycling. The integral switch doesn’t seem to have any option for adjustment and I am don’t see how a separate switch would be any different unless it was placed higher than the pump. My boat (34+) has a small collection area – maybe a litre of water in the bilge. The only source of outside water is rain down the mast, so this is a periodic problem. Any solutions or suggestions? *From:* CnC-List [mailto:cnc-list-boun...@cnc-list.com] *On Behalf Of *Jake Brodersen via CnC-List *Sent:* Sunday, March 22, 2015 6:27 PM *To:* sam.c.sal...@gmail.com; cnc-list@cnc-list.com *Subject:* Re: Stus-List 37+ Bilge pump Sam, The integral switches are “interesting”. Most of them spin the pump impeller at regular intervals. If they encounter resistance, they continue to run the pump until less resistance is encountered. There is nothing wrong with this approach, unless you can hear the pump from your bunk. I prefer pumps to be actuated by a switch than senses a need for the pump to run. Jake *Jake Brodersen* *“Midnight Mistress”* *CC 35 Mk-III* *Hampton VA* *From:* sam.c.sal...@gmail.com [mailto:sam.c.sal...@gmail.com sam.c.sal...@gmail.com] *Sent:* Sunday, March 22, 2015 7:11 PM *To:* cnc-list@cnc-list.com *Subject:* Re: Stus-List 37+ Bilge pump What about those solid state switches that are integral with the pump. Anyone have any experience with these? I've got a Whale pump like this, but haven't got around to installing it yet. sam :-) CC 26 Liquorice Ghost Lake Alberta *From: *Jake Brodersen via CnC-List *Sent: *Sunday, March 22, 2015 3:51 PM *To: *'Josh Muckley'; cnc-list@cnc-list.com *Reply To: *Jake Brodersen *Subject: *Re: Stus-List 37+ Bilge pump Josh,
Re: Stus-List 37+ Bilge pump
The bildge in mine is pretty narrow and deep so the largest pump I can easily fit is a Rule 800 that is square. It fills the footprint of the well. There isn't a good place for the switch except for almost directly above the pump. It is a flipper style. 2 years ago I replaced the original (to me) Rule 800 with a Rule 500 w/rulematic controller and also kept the float/flipper switch. I also rewired everything. Frustrating though was that the new SUBMERSIBLE Rule 500 pump did not have tinned wires! And the gauge was less than desired at about 18awg. I read a lot about solder not being acceptable but don't trust crimps as much as solder. I used my best Electronic Technician's training from the Navy to solder all the pump's leads and used adhesive lined heat shrink to seal the connections. I also think I used 14awg. The flipper switch is wired so that even with the OFF-1-ALL-2 switch in OFF the flipper will still actuate the pump. The on/off switch for the pump is on the switch panel and wired such that ON actuate the rulematic sensor which will run the pump until no more water is in the bildge. It automatically senses that it is doing less work (less current) and then shuts off. After 2 minutes it tests by starting for a moment and measuring the current draw. If the pump is doing work (more current) then it runs until the water is gone and the cycle starts over again. So ON is really AUTO. Unfortunately I have found the pump running non-stop in ON so I have never really used the auto feature. I attempted to correct the back flow problem with a large check valve placed very close to the pump discharge. It still isn't perfect so I just turn it on and then turn it off while I'm there and let the float do it's job while I'm gone. This means that the pump stays submerged for a large majority of it's life because the flipper is mounted above the pump. I have considered using 2 pumps. The gusher 320 for getting to the deepest part of the bildge. And a larger 1000 or 1500gph Rule mounted above the sensor for the gusher. During normal operation the gusher would run in auto using a new level switch and keep the larger pump from becoming submerged. If something were to cause an increase in the water level then the larger pump would actuate and prevent floading/sinking. Josh Muckley S/V Sea Hawk 1989 CC 37+ Solomons, MD On Mar 23, 2015 1:45 AM, David Blair via CnC-List cnc-list@cnc-list.com wrote: I find that since there is a lift of a few feet to the discharge level the integral switch causes the pump to spend its time (and my electrical energy) pumping the same litre or so of water up the discharge hose, waiting for it to trickle back, repumping it again, and so on. Inserting a backflow preventer slows the process somewhat but not entirely. Other than plumbing the discharge into the galley drain so the outflow is minimized I am not sure how to stop the constant recycling. The integral switch doesn't seem to have any option for adjustment and I am don't see how a separate switch would be any different unless it was placed higher than the pump. My boat (34+) has a small collection area - maybe a litre of water in the bilge. The only source of outside water is rain down the mast, so this is a periodic problem. Any solutions or suggestions? *From:* CnC-List [mailto:cnc-list-boun...@cnc-list.com] *On Behalf Of *Jake Brodersen via CnC-List *Sent:* Sunday, March 22, 2015 6:27 PM *To:* sam.c.sal...@gmail.com; cnc-list@cnc-list.com *Subject:* Re: Stus-List 37+ Bilge pump Sam, The integral switches are interesting. Most of them spin the pump impeller at regular intervals. If they encounter resistance, they continue to run the pump until less resistance is encountered. There is nothing wrong with this approach, unless you can hear the pump from your bunk. I prefer pumps to be actuated by a switch than senses a need for the pump to run. Jake *Jake Brodersen* *Midnight Mistress* *CC 35 Mk-III* *Hampton VA* *From:* sam.c.sal...@gmail.com [mailto:sam.c.sal...@gmail.com sam.c.sal...@gmail.com] *Sent:* Sunday, March 22, 2015 7:11 PM *To:* cnc-list@cnc-list.com *Subject:* Re: Stus-List 37+ Bilge pump What about those solid state switches that are integral with the pump. Anyone have any experience with these? I've got a Whale pump like this, but haven't got around to installing it yet. sam :-) CC 26 Liquorice Ghost Lake Alberta *From: *Jake Brodersen via CnC-List *Sent: *Sunday, March 22, 2015 3:51 PM *To: *'Josh Muckley'; cnc-list@cnc-list.com *Reply To: *Jake Brodersen *Subject: *Re: Stus-List 37+ Bilge pump Josh, The wiring is certainly suspect at this point in the boat's age. I prefer to mount the pump low in the bilge because most of them push water better than pulling it uphill. Putting it another way, they blow better than they suck... You're still going to have the bilge switch in the
Re: Stus-List 37+ Bilge pump
Try an in-line self-priming pump and run the pick up into your bilge sump. (similar to the whale gusher but electric). I had one on my previous boat and it gave me no trouble at all. Best practice is to connect to limit the amount of distance between the pick-up and thru-hull discharge. Mine went to the galley sink drain (with a siphon loop) so the total distance was under 4 feet. That also limits the head (lift). Advantages are you can size the pump for the max that will handle the size of your thru-hull, you can mount it in a convenient place and it isn’t submerged. Put the float switch right next to your pickup. Also, if the pick-up is well placed you can just about suck the bilge dry with the switch in ON. That was the only pump I didn’t replace in the 6 years I owned my previous boat. They cost a little more but well worth it. Burt (Skip) Stratton 1974 CC 33-3/4 tonner Narragansett Bay, RI From: CnC-List [mailto:cnc-list-boun...@cnc-list.com] On Behalf Of David Blair via CnC-List Sent: Monday, March 23, 2015 1:05 PM To: 'Dennis C.'; cnc-list@cnc-list.com Subject: Re: Stus-List 37+ Bilge pump Thanks for the info. From the look of the picture I don’t know whether the setup will fit in my narrow bilge ( 3” wide), but there may be a way. Cheers From: CnC-List [mailto:cnc-list-boun...@cnc-list.com] On Behalf Of Dennis C. via CnC-List Sent: Monday, March 23, 2015 5:13 AM To: CnClist Subject: Re: Stus-List 37+ Bilge pump Thoughts on bilge pumps. First, I'm rewiring a boat that has one of those auto switch pumps. Every 5 minutes or so it whirs and stops. Drives me nuts. Can't imagine sleeping on a boat with one of those installed. How I wire a bilge pump. First, install a Rule 43 3 way bilge switch in a convenient and protected location. Power it from one of the battery connections on the back side of your main battery switch. I usually connect it to the house bank. If you can find it, Ancor make some nice 14/3 AWG bilge pump cable. Run that or two positives and a single negative to the bilge. Use a round Rule pump of your choice and strap an Ultra Safety Systems Mini Bilge Pump switch to it. http://www.amazon.com/Ultra-Safety-Systems-Switch-UPS-06-12/dp/B00CGJS4PQ You will have a very nice and very reliable bilge pump system. Dennis C. Touche' 35-1 #83 Mandeville, LA ___ Email address: CnC-List@cnc-list.com To change your list preferences, including unsubscribing -- go to the bottom of page at: http://cnc-list.com/mailman/listinfo/cnc-list_cnc-list.com
Re: Stus-List 37+ Bilge pump
Edd: I had the same problem with bilge pump float switches failing. It turned out to be the old un-tinned wire. Every time I replaced a switch, it would work for awhile until the un-tinned wires got corroded near the most recent splice. Since I changed out this wiring to good tinned wire, I haven't had a single problem and the Rule 1500 has been the same pump all along. Bob Bob Boyer S/V Rainy Days / Annapolis MD 1983 CC Landfall 38 - Hull #230 email: dainyr...@icloud.com blog: dainyrays.blogspot.com There is nothing--absolutely nothing--half so much worth doing as simply messing about in boats. --Kenneth Grahame On Mar 23, 2015, at 12:55 PM, Edd Schillay via CnC-List cnc-list@cnc-list.com wrote: Since purchasing this Enterprise about 10 years ago, I’ve gone through several automatic bilge pumps. Either the motor fails, never stops running or the float switch gets jammed. I’ve tried both the float switch and the automatic versions. I liked the idea of an automatic, especially if you have worries about through-hulls or stuffing boxes and don’t want to see your boat become a liquid asset, but that gets replaced with worries on if the pump is working correctly or is not always working and draining your battery system. And then I thought back to when I had the 1978 CC 34 (the Enterprise-A). When I got on board, I did my usual pre-check of all systems which included checking the bilge. If I saw water, I turned the pump on. When I heard air-sucking noises, I turned it off. Easier. Much easier. So last year, I just got rid of the automatic. I get on board, I check, I pump. Honestly, I like it much better. All the best, Edd Edd M. Schillay Starship Enterprise CC 37+ | Sail No: NCC-1701-B City Island, NY Starship Enterprise's Captain's Log PastedGraphic-1.tiff On Mar 23, 2015, at 12:35 PM, Jean-Francois J Rivard via CnC-List cnc-list@cnc-list.com wrote: I replaced my troublesome automatic Rule pump with Johnson 750 or 1000 gph / Water Witch switch combo. ( https://www.waterwitchinc.com/new/SiteElements/Pages/SecondaryPages/Products/BilgeSwitches.html) Like yours. the way my sump is designed only the smaller pumps fit. The Rule pump had the stupid system that measures impeller resistance and with slightest amount of crap in the water, the impeller got fouled and made the pump run 24 / 7. The Water Witch is fool proof so far and the pump works fine. The only thing is: With the long run to the stern discharge the pump would not prime with the joker valve so I have to do without and a couple cups of water regurgitates in the sump after pumping.. The nice thing is with that sump design the rest of the bilge is bone dry and since we sail pretty often all year long, the water does not stay there long enough to smell. Eventually I'll get a little wet / dry vac to suck it up before we close the boat on Sunday night. Regards -Francois 1990 34+ Take Five Lake Lanier, GA ___ Email address: CnC-List@cnc-list.com To change your list preferences, including unsubscribing -- go to the bottom of page at: http://cnc-list.com/mailman/listinfo/cnc-list_cnc-list.com ___ Email address: CnC-List@cnc-list.com To change your list preferences, including unsubscribing -- go to the bottom of page at: http://cnc-list.com/mailman/listinfo/cnc-list_cnc-list.com ___ Email address: CnC-List@cnc-list.com To change your list preferences, including unsubscribing -- go to the bottom of page at: http://cnc-list.com/mailman/listinfo/cnc-list_cnc-list.com
Stus-List halyard stoppers
Ours came with the Lewmar D1 or D2's. They work well. I don't have any particular procedure and there's a very slight difference in lever pressure opening / closing them at full load or no load at all and it's very easy regardless. Assuming the correct size line for the job (I replaced a few) I also don't see any noticeable difference in line wear at the clutch points and no clutch slip to speak of. Regards -Francois Rivard 1990 34+ 'Take Five Lake Lanier, GA___ Email address: CnC-List@cnc-list.com To change your list preferences, including unsubscribing -- go to the bottom of page at: http://cnc-list.com/mailman/listinfo/cnc-list_cnc-list.com
Stus-List 37+ Bilge pump
I replaced my troublesome automatic Rule pump with Johnson 750 or 1000 gph / Water Witch switch combo. ( https://www.waterwitchinc.com/new/SiteElements/Pages/SecondaryPages/Products/BilgeSwitches.html ) Like yours. the way my sump is designed only the smaller pumps fit. The Rule pump had the stupid system that measures impeller resistance and with slightest amount of crap in the water, the impeller got fouled and made the pump run 24 / 7. The Water Witch is fool proof so far and the pump works fine. The only thing is: With the long run to the stern discharge the pump would not prime with the joker valve so I have to do without and a couple cups of water regurgitates in the sump after pumping.. The nice thing is with that sump design the rest of the bilge is bone dry and since we sail pretty often all year long, the water does not stay there long enough to smell. Eventually I'll get a little wet / dry vac to suck it up before we close the boat on Sunday night. Regards -Francois 1990 34+ Take Five Lake Lanier, GA___ Email address: CnC-List@cnc-list.com To change your list preferences, including unsubscribing -- go to the bottom of page at: http://cnc-list.com/mailman/listinfo/cnc-list_cnc-list.com
Re: Stus-List halyard stoppers
That's one thing that wasn't mentioned. The Lewmars release under load. Many of the cam type rope clutches need help. I'm fairly picky about brands in several areas. If I I had to rate my two highest hardware recommendations, they would be Lewmar rope clutches and Harken travelers. Dennis C. Touche' 35-1 #83 Mandeville, LA On Mon, Mar 23, 2015 at 11:17 AM, Jean-Francois J Rivard via CnC-List cnc-list@cnc-list.com wrote: Ours came with the Lewmar D1 or D2's. They work well. I don't have any particular procedure and there's a very slight difference in lever pressure opening / closing them at full load or no load at all and it's very easy regardless. Assuming the correct size line for the job (I replaced a few) I also don't see any noticeable difference in line wear at the clutch points and no clutch slip to speak of. Regards -Francois Rivard 1990 34+ 'Take Five Lake Lanier, GA ___ Email address: CnC-List@cnc-list.com To change your list preferences, including unsubscribing -- go to the bottom of page at: http://cnc-list.com/mailman/listinfo/cnc-list_cnc-list.com ___ Email address: CnC-List@cnc-list.com To change your list preferences, including unsubscribing -- go to the bottom of page at: http://cnc-list.com/mailman/listinfo/cnc-list_cnc-list.com
Stus-List Bilge pump
Dwight: I don't remove the bilge pump and switch during winter storage...what's the point when you winterize it/flush/fill it, and the line, with antifreeze and then above the floor boards leave the bottom end of the pump submerged in the same mix? Mine is submerged in the antifreeze in the bilge without removing it. Actually, that is not true..my bilge is mostly drythere is the occasional backflow of antifreeze from the line but that I sometimes soak up with a paper towel. Rob Abbott AZURA CC 32 - 84 Halifax, N.S. On 2015-03-23 9:26 AM, dwight veinot via CnC-List wrote: One additional thing that I do; remove my bilge pump and switch to above the floor boards during winter storage and flush the pump with a 50/50 mix of ethylene gycol and water and leave the bottom end of the pump submerged in the same mix...I think that helps to keep the pump in good shape for next season Dwight Veinot CC 35 MKII, */Alianna/* Head of St. Margaret's Bay, NS d.ve...@bellaliant.net mailto:d.ve...@bellaliant.net On Mon, Mar 23, 2015 at 9:12 AM, Dennis C. via CnC-List cnc-list@cnc-list.com mailto:cnc-list@cnc-list.com wrote: Thoughts on bilge pumps. First, I'm rewiring a boat that has one of those auto switch pumps. Every 5 minutes or so it whirs and stops. Drives me nuts. Can't imagine sleeping on a boat with one of those installed. How I wire a bilge pump. First, install a Rule 43 3 way bilge switch in a convenient and protected location. Power it from one of the battery connections on the back side of your main battery switch. I usually connect it to the house bank. If you can find it, Ancor make some nice 14/3 AWG bilge pump cable. Run that or two positives and a single negative to the bilge. Use a round Rule pump of your choice and strap an Ultra Safety Systems Mini Bilge Pump switch to it. http://www.amazon.com/Ultra-Safety-Systems-Switch-UPS-06-12/dp/B00CGJS4PQ You will have a very nice and very reliable bilge pump system. Dennis C. Touche' 35-1 #83 Mandeville, LA ___ Email address: CnC-List@cnc-list.com mailto:CnC-List@cnc-list.com To change your list preferences, including unsubscribing -- go to the bottom of page at: http://cnc-list.com/mailman/listinfo/cnc-list_cnc-list.com ___ Email address: CnC-List@cnc-list.com To change your list preferences, including unsubscribing -- go to the bottom of page at: http://cnc-list.com/mailman/listinfo/cnc-list_cnc-list.com ___ Email address: CnC-List@cnc-list.com To change your list preferences, including unsubscribing -- go to the bottom of page at: http://cnc-list.com/mailman/listinfo/cnc-list_cnc-list.com
Re: Stus-List 37+ Bilge pump
David: Been following these bilge threads...I don't know what model bilge pump and float switch I have on the boat...will go to the boat maybe this week...I will checkmy bilge is also very narrow and there is a pump and float switch anchored at its lowest pointpump can be operated manually or by the float switch or shut off completely via a master control switch we placed near the main electrical panel. We initially installed a 'one way valve' in the discharge line to prevent backflow but it didn'tthe water always leaks back.removed it from the discharge lineno regrets. In addition, I found that sometimes the 'one way valve' got fouled by the outflow and would not open completely..it was almost as sensitive to fouling as the know meter impeller. Just one person's experience. Rob Abbott AZURA CC 32 - 84 Halifax, N.S. On 2015-03-23 2:04 PM, David Blair via CnC-List wrote: Thanks for the info. From the look of the picture I don’t know whether the setup will fit in my narrow bilge ( 3” wide), but there may be a way. Cheers *From:*CnC-List [mailto:cnc-list-boun...@cnc-list.com] *On Behalf Of *Dennis C. via CnC-List *Sent:* Monday, March 23, 2015 5:13 AM *To:* CnClist *Subject:* Re: Stus-List 37+ Bilge pump Thoughts on bilge pumps. First, I'm rewiring a boat that has one of those auto switch pumps. Every 5 minutes or so it whirs and stops. Drives me nuts. Can't imagine sleeping on a boat with one of those installed. How I wire a bilge pump. First, install a Rule 43 3 way bilge switch in a convenient and protected location. Power it from one of the battery connections on the back side of your main battery switch. I usually connect it to the house bank. If you can find it, Ancor make some nice 14/3 AWG bilge pump cable. Run that or two positives and a single negative to the bilge. Use a round Rule pump of your choice and strap an Ultra Safety Systems Mini Bilge Pump switch to it. http://www.amazon.com/Ultra-Safety-Systems-Switch-UPS-06-12/dp/B00CGJS4PQ You will have a very nice and very reliable bilge pump system. Dennis C. Touche' 35-1 #83 Mandeville, LA ___ Email address: CnC-List@cnc-list.com To change your list preferences, including unsubscribing -- go to the bottom of page at: http://cnc-list.com/mailman/listinfo/cnc-list_cnc-list.com ___ Email address: CnC-List@cnc-list.com To change your list preferences, including unsubscribing -- go to the bottom of page at: http://cnc-list.com/mailman/listinfo/cnc-list_cnc-list.com
Re: Stus-List Bilge pump
Bob Understandwater doesn't normally get into my bilge over the winterlucky that way. If water were to get into Dwight's bilge over the winter, which I think it did, not sure, I believe Dwight installed a garboard drain to deal with that. However, if the garboard drain doesn't mean a totally ice free bilge, I'd want my pump out of harm's way too. Rob Abbott AZURA CC 32 -84 Halifax, N.S. On 2015-03-23 3:34 PM, Robert Boyer via CnC-List wrote: The CC Landfall 38 came from the factory with two mid-ship deck drains that drained into the bilge--the other two (aft) deck drains drained overboard. During the winter, these two midship deck drains can accumulate a lot of water in the bilge. So, not all CC's can simply use manually operated bilge pumps (unless you are living aboard and pay close attention to the bilge level). Also, any antifreeze mixture in the bilge will get diluted quite quickly. Bob On Mar 23, 2015, at 2:16 PM, robert via CnC-List wrote: Dwight: I don't remove the bilge pump and switch during winter storage...what's the point when you winterize it/flush/fill it, and the line, with antifreeze and then above the floor boards leave the bottom end of the pump submerged in the same mix? Mine is submerged in the antifreeze in the bilge without removing it. Actually, that is not true..my bilge is mostly drythere is the occasional backflow of antifreeze from the line but that I sometimes soak up with a paper towel. Rob Abbott AZURA CC 32 - 84 Halifax, N.S. On 2015-03-23 9:26 AM, dwight veinot via CnC-List wrote: One additional thing that I do; remove my bilge pump and switch to above the floor boards during winter storage and flush the pump with a 50/50 mix of ethylene gycol and water and leave the bottom end of the pump submerged in the same mix...I think that helps to keep the pump in good shape for next season Dwight Veinot CC 35 MKII, */Alianna/* Head of St. Margaret's Bay, NS d.ve...@bellaliant.net mailto:d.ve...@bellaliant.net On Mon, Mar 23, 2015 at 9:12 AM, Dennis C. via CnC-List cnc-list@cnc-list.com mailto:cnc-list@cnc-list.com wrote: Thoughts on bilge pumps. First, I'm rewiring a boat that has one of those auto switch pumps. Every 5 minutes or so it whirs and stops. Drives me nuts. Can't imagine sleeping on a boat with one of those installed. How I wire a bilge pump. First, install a Rule 43 3 way bilge switch in a convenient and protected location. Power it from one of the battery connections on the back side of your main battery switch. I usually connect it to the house bank. If you can find it, Ancor make some nice 14/3 AWG bilge pump cable. Run that or two positives and a single negative to the bilge. Use a round Rule pump of your choice and strap an Ultra Safety Systems Mini Bilge Pump switch to it. http://www.amazon.com/Ultra-Safety-Systems-Switch-UPS-06-12/dp/B00CGJS4PQ You will have a very nice and very reliable bilge pump system. Dennis C. Touche' 35-1 #83 Mandeville, LA ___ Email address: CnC-List@cnc-list.com mailto:CnC-List@cnc-list.com To change your list preferences, including unsubscribing -- go to the bottom of page at: http://cnc-list.com/mailman/listinfo/cnc-list_cnc-list.com ___ Email address: CnC-List@cnc-list.com To change your list preferences, including unsubscribing -- go to the bottom of page at: http://cnc-list.com/mailman/listinfo/cnc-list_cnc-list.com ___ Email address: CnC-List@cnc-list.com mailto:CnC-List@cnc-list.com To change your list preferences, including unsubscribing -- go to the bottom of page at: http://cnc-list.com/mailman/listinfo/cnc-list_cnc-list.com Bob Boyer S/V Rainy Days (1983 CC Landfall 38 - Hull #230) email: dainyr...@icloud.com mailto:dainyr...@icloud.com blog: dainyrays.blogspot.com http://dainyrays.blogspot.com There is nothing--absolutely nothing--half so much worth doing as simply messing about in boats. --Kenneth Grahame ___ Email address: CnC-List@cnc-list.com To change your list preferences, including unsubscribing -- go to the bottom of page at: http://cnc-list.com/mailman/listinfo/cnc-list_cnc-list.com ___ Email address: CnC-List@cnc-list.com To change your list preferences, including unsubscribing -- go to the bottom of page at: http://cnc-list.com/mailman/listinfo/cnc-list_cnc-list.com
Re: Stus-List 37+ Bilge pump
On my Viking, I installed 2 whale gusher pumps in a locker and just ran house down into the bilge. I did instal one flart switch in the sump to run one of the pumps automatically. I really liked that setup. The pumps stayed high and dry and there was less stuff in the bilge. From my Android phone Original message From: David Blair via CnC-List cnc-list@cnc-list.com Date: 03/23/2015 1:04 PM (GMT-05:00) To: 'Dennis C.' capt...@gmail.com,cnc-list@cnc-list.com Subject: Re: Stus-List 37+ Bilge pump Thanks for the info. From the look of the picture I don’t know whether the setup will fit in my narrow bilge ( 3” wide), but there may be a way. Cheers From: CnC-List [mailto:cnc-list-boun...@cnc-list.com] On Behalf Of Dennis C. via CnC-List Sent: Monday, March 23, 2015 5:13 AM To: CnClist Subject: Re: Stus-List 37+ Bilge pump Thoughts on bilge pumps. First, I'm rewiring a boat that has one of those auto switch pumps. Every 5 minutes or so it whirs and stops. Drives me nuts. Can't imagine sleeping on a boat with one of those installed. How I wire a bilge pump. First, install a Rule 43 3 way bilge switch in a convenient and protected location. Power it from one of the battery connections on the back side of your main battery switch. I usually connect it to the house bank. If you can find it, Ancor make some nice 14/3 AWG bilge pump cable. Run that or two positives and a single negative to the bilge. Use a round Rule pump of your choice and strap an Ultra Safety Systems Mini Bilge Pump switch to it. http://www.amazon.com/Ultra-Safety-Systems-Switch-UPS-06-12/dp/B00CGJS4PQ You will have a very nice and very reliable bilge pump system. Dennis C. Touche' 35-1 #83 Mandeville, LA___ Email address: CnC-List@cnc-list.com To change your list preferences, including unsubscribing -- go to the bottom of page at: http://cnc-list.com/mailman/listinfo/cnc-list_cnc-list.com
Re: Stus-List 37+ Bilge pump
On my 35/3 installed one of these: Whale Supersub Bilge Pump http://www.jamestowndistributors.com/userportal/show_product.do?pid=15042familyName=Whale+Supersub+Bilge+Pump with a Johnson automatic switch. Had to clean the crud off the switch, but otherwise no problems. Your sump can't be any smaller! Joel 35/3 Annapolis On Mon, Mar 23, 2015 at 2:05 PM, Danny Haughey via CnC-List cnc-list@cnc-list.com wrote: On my Viking, I installed 2 whale gusher pumps in a locker and just ran house down into the bilge. I did instal one flart switch in the sump to run one of the pumps automatically. I really liked that setup. The pumps stayed high and dry and there was less stuff in the bilge. From my Android phone Original message From: David Blair via CnC-List cnc-list@cnc-list.com Date: 03/23/2015 1:04 PM (GMT-05:00) To: 'Dennis C.' capt...@gmail.com,cnc-list@cnc-list.com Subject: Re: Stus-List 37+ Bilge pump Thanks for the info. From the look of the picture I don’t know whether the setup will fit in my narrow bilge ( 3” wide), but there may be a way. Cheers *From:* CnC-List [mailto:cnc-list-boun...@cnc-list.com] *On Behalf Of *Dennis C. via CnC-List *Sent:* Monday, March 23, 2015 5:13 AM *To:* CnClist *Subject:* Re: Stus-List 37+ Bilge pump Thoughts on bilge pumps. First, I'm rewiring a boat that has one of those auto switch pumps. Every 5 minutes or so it whirs and stops. Drives me nuts. Can't imagine sleeping on a boat with one of those installed. How I wire a bilge pump. First, install a Rule 43 3 way bilge switch in a convenient and protected location. Power it from one of the battery connections on the back side of your main battery switch. I usually connect it to the house bank. If you can find it, Ancor make some nice 14/3 AWG bilge pump cable. Run that or two positives and a single negative to the bilge. Use a round Rule pump of your choice and strap an Ultra Safety Systems Mini Bilge Pump switch to it. http://www.amazon.com/Ultra-Safety-Systems-Switch-UPS-06-12/dp/B00CGJS4PQ You will have a very nice and very reliable bilge pump system. Dennis C. Touche' 35-1 #83 Mandeville, LA ___ Email address: CnC-List@cnc-list.com To change your list preferences, including unsubscribing -- go to the bottom of page at: http://cnc-list.com/mailman/listinfo/cnc-list_cnc-list.com -- Joel 301 541 8551 ___ Email address: CnC-List@cnc-list.com To change your list preferences, including unsubscribing -- go to the bottom of page at: http://cnc-list.com/mailman/listinfo/cnc-list_cnc-list.com
Re: Stus-List Bilge pump
The CC Landfall 38 came from the factory with two mid-ship deck drains that drained into the bilge--the other two (aft) deck drains drained overboard. During the winter, these two midship deck drains can accumulate a lot of water in the bilge. So, not all CC's can simply use manually operated bilge pumps (unless you are living aboard and pay close attention to the bilge level). Also, any antifreeze mixture in the bilge will get diluted quite quickly. Bob On Mar 23, 2015, at 2:16 PM, robert via CnC-List wrote: Dwight: I don't remove the bilge pump and switch during winter storage...what's the point when you winterize it/flush/fill it, and the line, with antifreeze and then above the floor boards leave the bottom end of the pump submerged in the same mix? Mine is submerged in the antifreeze in the bilge without removing it. Actually, that is not true..my bilge is mostly drythere is the occasional backflow of antifreeze from the line but that I sometimes soak up with a paper towel. Rob Abbott AZURA CC 32 - 84 Halifax, N.S. On 2015-03-23 9:26 AM, dwight veinot via CnC-List wrote: One additional thing that I do; remove my bilge pump and switch to above the floor boards during winter storage and flush the pump with a 50/50 mix of ethylene gycol and water and leave the bottom end of the pump submerged in the same mix...I think that helps to keep the pump in good shape for next season Dwight Veinot CC 35 MKII, Alianna Head of St. Margaret's Bay, NS d.ve...@bellaliant.net On Mon, Mar 23, 2015 at 9:12 AM, Dennis C. via CnC-List cnc-list@cnc-list.com wrote: Thoughts on bilge pumps. First, I'm rewiring a boat that has one of those auto switch pumps. Every 5 minutes or so it whirs and stops. Drives me nuts. Can't imagine sleeping on a boat with one of those installed. How I wire a bilge pump. First, install a Rule 43 3 way bilge switch in a convenient and protected location. Power it from one of the battery connections on the back side of your main battery switch. I usually connect it to the house bank. If you can find it, Ancor make some nice 14/3 AWG bilge pump cable. Run that or two positives and a single negative to the bilge. Use a round Rule pump of your choice and strap an Ultra Safety Systems Mini Bilge Pump switch to it. http://www.amazon.com/Ultra-Safety-Systems-Switch-UPS-06-12/dp/B00CGJS4PQ You will have a very nice and very reliable bilge pump system. Dennis C. Touche' 35-1 #83 Mandeville, LA ___ Email address: CnC-List@cnc-list.com To change your list preferences, including unsubscribing -- go to the bottom of page at: http://cnc-list.com/mailman/listinfo/cnc-list_cnc-list.com ___ Email address: CnC-List@cnc-list.com To change your list preferences, including unsubscribing -- go to the bottom of page at: http://cnc-list.com/mailman/listinfo/cnc-list_cnc-list.com ___ Email address: CnC-List@cnc-list.com To change your list preferences, including unsubscribing -- go to the bottom of page at: http://cnc-list.com/mailman/listinfo/cnc-list_cnc-list.com Bob Boyer S/V Rainy Days (1983 CC Landfall 38 - Hull #230) email: dainyr...@icloud.com blog: dainyrays.blogspot.com There is nothing--absolutely nothing--half so much worth doing as simply messing about in boats. --Kenneth Grahame ___ Email address: CnC-List@cnc-list.com To change your list preferences, including unsubscribing -- go to the bottom of page at: http://cnc-list.com/mailman/listinfo/cnc-list_cnc-list.com
Stus-List Bilge pump
Bob: From the design you describe of mid-ship deck drains that drain into the bilge, it is not only during the winter but whenever these drains collect water, they deposit to the bilge. Not just a winter concern. Rob Abbott AZURA CC 32 - 84 Halifax, N.S. -- Original message-- *From: *Robert Boyer via CnC-List *Date: *Mon, Mar 23, 2015 11:34 *To: *cnc-list@cnc-list.com mailto:cnc-list@cnc-list.com; *Subject:*Re: Stus-List Bilge pump The CC Landfall 38 came from the factory with two mid-ship deck drains that drained into the bilge--the other two (aft) deck drains drained overboard. During the winter, these two midship deck drains can accumulate a lot of water in the bilge. So, not all CC's can simply use manually operated bilge pumps (unless you are living aboard and pay close attention to the bilge level). Also, any antifreeze mixture in the bilge will get diluted quite quickly. Bob On Mar 23, 2015, at 2:16 PM, robert via CnC-List wrote: Dwight: I don't remove the bilge pump and switch during winter storage...what's the point when you winterize it/flush/fill it, and the line, with antifreeze and then above the floor boards leave the bottom end of the pump submerged in the same mix? Mine is submerged in the antifreeze in the bilge without removing it. Actually, that is not true..my bilge is mostly drythere is the occasional backflow of antifreeze from the line but that I sometimes soak up with a paper towel. Rob Abbott AZURA CC 32 - 84 Halifax, N.S. On 2015-03-23 9 tel:2015-03-23%209:26 AM, dwight veinot via CnC-List wrote: One additional thing that I do; remove my bilge pump and switch to above the floor boards during winter storage and flush the pump with a 50/50 mix of ethylene gycol and water and leave the bottom end of the pump submerged in the same mix...I think that helps to keep the pump in good shape for next season Dwight Veinot CC 35 MKII, */Alianna/* Head of St. Margaret's Bay, NS d.ve...@bellaliant.net mailto:d.ve...@bellaliant.net On Mon, Mar 23, 2015 at 9:12 AM, Dennis C. via CnC-List cnc-list@cnc-list.com mailto:cnc-list@cnc-list.com wrote: Thoughts on bilge pumps. First, I'm rewiring a boat that has one of those auto switch pumps. Every 5 minutes or so it whirs and stops. Drives me nuts. Can't imagine sleeping on a boat with one of those installed. How I wire a bilge pump. First, install a Rule 43 3 way bilge switch in a convenient and protected location. Power it from one of the battery connections on the back side of your main battery switch. I usually connect it to the house bank. If you can find it, Ancor make some nice 14/3 AWG bilge pump cable. Run that or two positives and a single negative to the bilge. Use a round Rule pump of your choice and strap an Ultra Safety Systems Mini Bilge Pump switch to it. http://www.amazon.com/Ultra-Safety-Systems-Switch-UPS-06-12/dp/B00CGJS4PQ You will have a very nice and very reliable bilge pump system. Dennis C. Touche' 35-1 #83 Mandeville, LA ___ Email address: CnC-List@cnc-list.com mailto:CnC-List@cnc-list.com To change your list preferences, including unsubscribing -- go to the bottom of page at: http://cnc-list.com/mailman/listinfo/cnc-list_cnc-list.com ___Email address:CnC-List@cnc-list.comTo change your list preferences, including unsubscribing -- go to the bottom of page at:http://cnc-list.com/mailman/listinfo/cnc-list_cnc-list.com ___ Email address: CnC-List@cnc-list.com mailto:CnC-List@cnc-list.com To change your list preferences, including unsubscribing -- go to the bottom of page at: http://cnc-list.com/mailman/listinfo/cnc-list_cnc-list.com Bob Boyer S/V Rainy Days (1983 CC Landfall 38 - Hull #230) email: dainyr...@icloud.com mailto:dainyr...@icloud.com blog: dainyrays.blogspot.com http://dainyrays.blogspot.com There is nothing--absolutely nothing--half so much worth doing as simply messing about in boats. --Kenneth Grahame ___ Email address: CnC-List@cnc-list.com To change your list preferences, including unsubscribing -- go to the bottom of page at: http://cnc-list.com/mailman/listinfo/cnc-list_cnc-list.com ___ Email address: CnC-List@cnc-list.com To change your list preferences, including unsubscribing -- go to the bottom of page at: http://cnc-list.com/mailman/listinfo/cnc-list_cnc-list.com
Re: Stus-List 37+ Bilge pump
Whale Gusher as in the foot pedal / level manual pump? If you meant Whale Gulpher then +1 for those. When I rebuilt the mast step I put the remote pickup at the low spot and an electronic switch. Good so far. Michael Brown Windburn CC 30-1 Date: Mon, 23 Mar 2015 14:05:56 -0400 From: Danny Haughey djhaug...@juno.com To: dblair...@gmail.com, cnc-list@cnc-list.com, capt...@gmail.com Subject: Re: Stus-List 37+ Bilge pump Message-ID: 7orp12qnj8oahh4u3vd9v46i.1427130574...@email.android.com Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8 On my Viking, I installed 2 whale gusher pumps in a locker and just ran house down into the bilge. ?I did instal one flart switch in the sump to run one of the pumps automatically. ?I really liked that setup. ?The pumps stayed high and dry and there was less stuff in the bilge. From my Android phone ___ Email address: CnC-List@cnc-list.com To change your list preferences, including unsubscribing -- go to the bottom of page at: http://cnc-list.com/mailman/listinfo/cnc-list_cnc-list.com
Stus-List Bilge Pump now Bilge Pump Switch
Just to be clear. The Water Witch switch https://www.waterwitchinc.com/new/SiteElements/Pages/SecondaryPages/Products/BilgeSwitches.html is 100% solid state with no floats or any moving parts. It doesn't cycle needlessly either, It just has one or 2 sensor plates (depending on the model) that probably measures + voltage to ground difference / conductivity. Long story short: It knows when the bilge water level is above the threshold, even with some oil (Transmission leak, another story) and other crud it has never miss-fired or failed. So far, fool proof and used by both Canadian and US coast guards if that means anything.. Regards Francois Rivard 1990 34+ Take five Cumming, GA___ Email address: CnC-List@cnc-list.com To change your list preferences, including unsubscribing -- go to the bottom of page at: http://cnc-list.com/mailman/listinfo/cnc-list_cnc-list.com
Re: Stus-List deck drains (was: Bilge pump)
you wrote: On Pegasus, my deck drains go to a thru-hull under the galley sink. This year I am going to reroute them to thru-hulls just below the toe rails. That's what I did and it did not work out well. (My last email had a comment about my big idea being totally sub-optimal.) I ran them a bit aft, where I had access, but the hoses have a loop that catches dirt and dead fish and used condoms. (Okay, that last inappropriate comment was a bit of a stretch.) If I were to do that job again under the constraints I was working with, I should have added a *flush* through hull about six inches or so below the drain, so it would have a vertical drop and overboard yet still be able to handle the bend radius of quality hose. I say *flush*, because that's right amidships, and if you bump a piling or another boat (or if another boat bumps *you*) you really don't want a protrusion on the hull right there. I thought about it at the time, but was really busy with work, so just did what I had to do. The objective was to get the boat ready to go cruising, not to have the perfect boat, and over the years I don't regret focusing on the objective. It's not structural, it'll never sink the boat, and so I can live with it. I just take a hose and stick it full blast on the drain and watch the nasty stuff get pushed out, then take the hose and back flush it, and watch more nasty stuff pop up backwards, and smile and get on with life. Heck, if I wanted everything to be just exactly perfect I'd still be working. And if I had a dollar for every time I said It's not perfect, but it's structurally sound and doesn't create a danger I'd be retired and living in Mexico... Big big grins, Wal s/v Stella Blue currently in Banderas Bay again and again and again ___ Email address: CnC-List@cnc-list.com To change your list preferences, including unsubscribing -- go to the bottom of page at: http://cnc-list.com/mailman/listinfo/cnc-list_cnc-list.com
Re: Stus-List Bilge pump
On Pegasus, my deck drains go to a thru-hull under the galley sink. This year I am going to reroute them to thru-hulls just below the toe rails. I also use this thru-hull for my wash down pump supply. Pegasus is hull #4. Maybe it was converted by a PO.DougPegasus LF38 Just west of Ballard, wa T-Mobile. America's First Nationwide 4G Network. -- Original message--From: Robert Boyer via CnC-List Date: Mon, Mar 23, 2015 11:34To: cnc-list@cnc-list.com;Subject:Re: Stus-List Bilge pumpThe CC Landfall 38 came from the factory with two mid-ship deck drains that drained into the bilge--the other two (aft) deck drains drained overboard. During the winter, these two midship deck drains can accumulate a lot of water in the bilge. So, not all CC's can simply use manually operated bilge pumps (unless you are living aboard and pay close attention to the bilge level). Also, any antifreeze mixture in the bilge will get diluted quite quickly. Bob On Mar 23, 2015, at 2:16 PM, robert via CnC-List wrote: Dwight: I don't remove the bilge pump and switch during winterstorage...what's the point when you winterize it/flush/fill it, andthe line, with antifreeze and then above the floor boardsleave the bottom end of the pump submerged in the same mix? Mine is submerged in the antifreeze in the bilge without removingit. Actually, that is not true..my bilge is mostly drythere isthe occasional backflow of antifreeze from the line but that Isometimes soak up with a paper towel. Rob Abbott AZURA CC 32 - 84 Halifax, N.S. On 2015-03-23 9:26 AM, dwight veinot via CnC-List wrote: One additional thing that I do; remove my bilgepump and switch to above the floor boards during winter storageand flush the pump with a 50/50 mix of ethylene gycol and waterand leave the bottom end of the pump submerged in the samemix...I think that helps to keep the pump in good shape for nextseason Dwight Veinot CC 35 MKII, Alianna Head of St. Margaret's Bay, NS d.ve...@bellaliant.net On Mon, Mar 23, 2015 at 9:12 AM, Dennis C. via CnC-List cnc-list@cnc-list.com wrote: Thoughts on bilge pumps. First, I'm rewiring a boat thathas one of those auto switch pumps. Every 5 minutes orso it whirs and stops. Drives me nuts. Can't imaginesleeping on a boat with one of those installed. How I wire a bilge pump. First, install a Rule 43 3 way bilge switch in a convenient and protected location. Power it from one of the battery connections on the back side of your main batteryswitch. I usually connect it to the house bank. If youcan find it, Ancor make some nice 14/3 AWG bilge pumpcable. Run that or two positives and a single negativeto the bilge. Use a round Rule pump of your choice and strap an Ultra Safety Systems Mini Bilge Pump switch to it. http://www.amazon.com/Ultra-Safety-Systems-Switch-UPS-06-12/dp/B00CGJS4PQ You will have a very nice andvery reliable bilge pump system. Dennis C. Touche' 35-1 #83 Mandeville, LA ___ Email address: CnC-List@cnc-list.com To change your list preferences, including unsubscribing -- go to the bottom of page at: http://cnc-list.com/mailman/listinfo/cnc-list_cnc-list.com ___Email address:CnC-List@cnc-list.comTo change your list preferences, including unsubscribing -- go to the bottom of page at:http://cnc-list.com/mailman/listinfo/cnc-list_cnc-list.com ___ Email address: CnC-List@cnc-list.com To change your list preferences, including unsubscribing -- go to the bottom of page at: http://cnc-list.com/mailman/listinfo/cnc-list_cnc-list.com Bob Boyer S/V Rainy Days (1983 CC Landfall 38 - Hull #230) email: dainyrays@icloud.comblog: dainyrays.blogspot.com There is
Re: Stus-List LF38 deck drains (was: Bilge pump)
My LF38 had them Tied and Teed into the galley sink drain. I didn't like that. When I replaced all my hoses I couldn't access the port one as it was run behind the ice box and wouldn't move, so I plugged up the drain for a while and thought about it. I didn't think about it long enough, as my solution is so totally sub-optimal that I won't bother describing it. I have added drains through the teak toe rails, by carefully working a hole saw right at deck level through the teak, and epoxying a section of PVC in there, sanding it flush and painting it. That actually works great. If I ever paint my deck, I'll take those amidships drains and glass them flush, and add two drains through the toe rail amidships. Wal Bob wrote: The CC Landfall 38 came from the factory with two mid-ship deck drains that drained into the bilge--the other two (aft) deck drains drained overboard. During the winter, these two midship deck drains can accumulate a lot of water in the bilge. So, not all CC's can simply use manually operated bilge pumps (unless you are living aboard and pay close attention to the bilge level). Also, any antifreeze mixture in the bilge will get diluted quite quickly. ___ Email address: CnC-List@cnc-list.com To change your list preferences, including unsubscribing -- go to the bottom of page at: http://cnc-list.com/mailman/listinfo/cnc-list_cnc-list.com
Re: Stus-List 37+ Bilge pump
Yep, you're right, I misspoke in one of the first emails. I meant whale gulper 320. The electric one without any smart sensors. Josh On Mar 23, 2015 8:03 PM, Michael Brown via CnC-List cnc-list@cnc-list.com wrote: Whale Gusher as in the foot pedal / level manual pump? If you meant Whale Gulpher then +1 for those. When I rebuilt the mast step I put the remote pickup at the low spot and an electronic switch. Good so far. Michael Brown Windburn CC 30-1 Date: Mon, 23 Mar 2015 14:05:56 -0400 From: Danny Haughey djhaug...@juno.com To: dblair...@gmail.com, cnc-list@cnc-list.com, capt...@gmail.com Subject: Re: Stus-List 37+ Bilge pump Message-ID: 7orp12qnj8oahh4u3vd9v46i.1427130574...@email.android.com Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8 On my Viking, I installed 2 whale gusher pumps in a locker and just ran house down into the bilge. ?I did instal one flart switch in the sump to run one of the pumps automatically. ?I really liked that setup. ?The pumps stayed high and dry and there was less stuff in the bilge. From my Android phone ___ Email address: CnC-List@cnc-list.com To change your list preferences, including unsubscribing -- go to the bottom of page at: http://cnc-list.com/mailman/listinfo/cnc-list_cnc-list.com ___ Email address: CnC-List@cnc-list.com To change your list preferences, including unsubscribing -- go to the bottom of page at: http://cnc-list.com/mailman/listinfo/cnc-list_cnc-list.com
Re: Stus-List Underwear (was deck drains, was bilge pumps)
One of my funniest moments in the last year was when I walked back into a marina office and said Oh, I forgot what I was here for. Heck, I would forget my own name if it wasn't written on my underwear. I heard later that two of the girls started giggling and said he doesn't wear underwear. Okay, I need to fix dinner. ___ Email address: CnC-List@cnc-list.com To change your list preferences, including unsubscribing -- go to the bottom of page at: http://cnc-list.com/mailman/listinfo/cnc-list_cnc-list.com
Re: Stus-List Bilge Pump now Bilge Pump Switch
+1 on the water witch. I used one on my boatsense high water alarm. No moving parts. Had it for 6 years, never failed. From: CnC-List [mailto:cnc-list-boun...@cnc-list.com] On Behalf Of Jean-Francois J Rivard via CnC-List Sent: Monday, March 23, 2015 9:10 PM To: cnc-list@cnc-list.com Subject: Stus-List Bilge Pump now Bilge Pump Switch Just to be clear. The Water Witch switch https://www.waterwitchinc.com/new/SiteElements/Pages/SecondaryPages/Product s/BilgeSwitches.html https://www.waterwitchinc.com/new/SiteElements/Pages/SecondaryPages/Products /BilgeSwitches.html is 100% solid state with no floats or any moving parts. It doesn't cycle needlessly either, It just has one or 2 sensor plates (depending on the model) that probably measures + voltage to ground difference / conductivity. Long story short: It knows when the bilge water level is above the threshold, even with some oil (Transmission leak, another story) and other crud it has never miss-fired or failed. So far, fool proof and used by both Canadian and US coast guards if that means anything.. Regards Francois Rivard 1990 34+ Take five Cumming, GA ___ Email address: CnC-List@cnc-list.com To change your list preferences, including unsubscribing -- go to the bottom of page at: http://cnc-list.com/mailman/listinfo/cnc-list_cnc-list.com
Stus-List PHRF Adjustments for Spin and JAM in a single fleet
Rick said *If I have a fleet of 8 to 10 CC sailboats competing in a single event over the same course at the same time, but in different (spin Jam) classes, what is an equitable way to determine which boat is the best performer? Here in Nova Scotia, if we wish to race, we must register with the Nova Scotia Yachting Associationit provides a PHRF rating based on a declaration, e.g sails, fixed and/or folding propellers, etc. For example, (from my memory which might be fuzzy on this) the NSYA rates our CC 32 at a base PHRF of 165 with a 150% Genoabut with no spin (+18) and a two blade fixed prop (+6) our PHRF to race is 189. Here is the website if you are interested: * **http://www.sailnovascotia.ca/racing/phrf-racing/phrf-ns.html *Don't overlook good in the pursuit of perfectionbecause what you are trying to achieve, there is 'no perfection'. And think about giving every competitor a bottle of an adult beveragethat will distract them from where they placed! Rob Abbott AZURA CC 32 - 84 Halifax, N.S. * . On 2015-03-22 6:00 PM, Rick Brass via CnC-List wrote: I’m well aware of the problems of running Spin and Jam boats in the same fleets, and the frustrations of PHRF racing in fleets that have a wide range of boat types ranging from sport boats like the Viper to boats like the San Juan 21. Time on Time is a boon to fairness in a fleet race, but I can’t think of a way that you could set up fair starts for a pursuit race using time on time. Since the discussion is turning to these things, perhaps I should clarify the reason for my question, and rephrase it. Pirates on the Pungo is an annual charity regatta, held in Belhaven, NC in mid-May. (This year it will be May 15-17) Most keelboats compete in a longish pursuit race on Saturday, with awards given out on Saturday night at the dinner dance, and a second (optional) race on Sunday morning. One designs and dinghies compete in windward-leeward races on both days. The pursuit course is typically the one I described – about 10 NM with N,S, E, and W legs, starting and ending inside the breakwater in the harbor. The keelboats compete for three deep prizes in three classes: Spinnaker, PHRF Non-Spinnaker, and Cruising. Cruising boats are white sails and not generally raced. Usually there are about 30 keelboats, with Cruising being the largest class. I plan to conduct a “CC Rendezvous” within the Pirates on the Pungo regatta. I know of about 10 CCs within a day’s travel of Belhaven, which allows travel on Friday to arrive for the Skipper’s Reception, compete on Saturday, and sail home on Sunday. (There are actually 5 CCs at the River Rat Yacht Club just 5 miles away) And another 10 or so are within 2 day’s travel. Using the event as a venue makes everything really simple. Someone else provides the RC, committee boats, marks, photographer, the Friday evening cocktail party, Saturday breakfast, Saturday steak and seafood buffet, Sunday brunch, the band for the dance, and beer and soda for the weekend. There is free dockage available in Belhaven. And since the regatta is part of the Belhaven Pirate Fest this year there is even street music and shore side activities on Saturday for family and kids who don’t want to race. All I need to do is arrange a race within a race for the CC owners to stimulate competition and camaraderie, provide a prize (and I think one of Andrew Burton’s half hulls of the winner’s own boat is a really nice prize), figure out how to determine the winner, and get the word out to CC owners. Figuring out how to determine who gets the prize is the reason for asking the original question. Participants will be competing for the overall prizes in one of three classes, in a pursuit race based on PHRF ratings. I’ve been involved in regattas where the overall winner got a prize for being first in the “most competitive” class, but never thought the methods for determining “most competitive” were very equitable. The other alternative I could think of was to determine an adjustment to the PHRF ratings of the JAM boats, and then score the CCs based on their actual time on the course just like you would a Time on Distance race. So let me rephrase my question: *If I have a fleet of 8 to 10 CC sailboats competing in a single event over the same course at the same time, but in different (spin Jam) classes, what is an equitable way to determine which boat is the best performer?* All suggestions will be greatly appreciated. Rick Brass Washington, NC *From:*CnC-List [mailto:cnc-list-boun...@cnc-list.com] *On Behalf Of *Chuck S via CnC-List *Sent:* Sunday, March 22, 2015 1:58 PM *To:* Michael Brown; CNC boat owners, cnc-list *Subject:* Re: Stus-List PHRF Adjustments for Spin and JAM in a single fleet Very good summary of things I saw too when racing against different style boats in the same fleet. Instead of the fleet placings, we found we could measure our
