Re: Stus-List Propeller - flexofold

[Josh Muckley via CnC-List]

That's less than half what the MSRP on a comparable Max-Prop would be.
That being said, I like my Max-Prop and would generally only consider a
Gori in its place.

Someone here has advised of a feathering prop which doesn't need the pitch
adjusted?  Kiwi-prop?  I can't remember.  I was quite intrigued by this
option as well.

Josh Muckley
S/V Sea Hawk
1989 C&C 37+
Solomons, MD
On Jun 7, 2016 9:17 AM, "Robin Drew via CnC-List" 
wrote:

> I just got a quote of $1,145 US for a 2 blade Flexofold.
> Robin
>
> Robin Drew
> Mobile: +1 514 4632060
>
> On Jun 7, 2016, at 8:20 AM, Hoyt, Mike via CnC-List 
> wrote:
>
> Bruno
>
>
>
> What did they charge you for that prop?
>
>
>
> Mike
>
>
>
> *From:* CnC-List [mailto:cnc-list-boun...@cnc-list.com
> ] *On Behalf Of *Bruno Lachance via
> CnC-List
> *Sent:* Monday, June 06, 2016 7:00 PM
> *To:* cnc-list@cnc-list.com
> *Cc:* Bruno Lachance
> *Subject:* Re: Stus-List Propeller
>
>
>
> Robin,
>
>
>
> I do remember the original fixed blades prop of my 33 mk II with original
> Yanmar 2gmf was 16", will have to check for the pitch but I think it is 12.
> I will be back home in two days to verify that.
>
>
>
> I ordered a Flexofold 3 blades and they recommended 15" /9". The blade
> area is larger and I think it is too much prop for my boat, I can't push
> the engine over 2800. But it is a good prop and I deal with it.
>
>
>
> Bruno lachance
>
> Becassine, 33 mkIi
>
> New Richmond, Qc
>
>
>
> Envoyé de mon iPad
>
>
> Le 5 juin 2016 à 22:29, Robin Drew via CnC-List  a
> écrit :
>
> Thanks. I just bought the boat and I'm pretty annoyed but sure the problem
> is that it's  worn and needs maintenance. I'm planning on removing it and
> putting a simple 2 blade prop on, at least for now.
>
>
>
> It's hard to get info about the size and pitch specs. However, I found a
> website in BC that has a prop calculator and it gave me 15" with 9" pitch
> for my boat (CNC 33/2), engine and transmission. Does this sound right?
>
> Any comments?
>
> Robin Drew
>
> Mobile: +1 514 4632060
>
>
> On May 29, 2016, at 4:32 AM, S Thomas via CnC-List 
> wrote:
>
> The obvious question in this case with a folding prop, is do all the
> blades open all the way?
>
> Once it is in the water it is hard to tell unless you can dive on it.
>
> I bought a used 2 blade prop recently that is geared so that the halves
> are supposed to open evenly. The pins are so worn in the prop body that the
> gear teeth can jump one another and it gets stuck so that one blade does
> not open all the way. In my case the prop needs to be re-built.
>
> The short answer is that anything that causes one blade to stick will
> cause the problem you describe.
>
> There are other possibilities, but that is the easiest to check.
>
>
>
> Steve Thomas
>
> C&C27 MKIII
>
> Port Stanley, ON
>
> - Original Message -
>
> *From:* Robin Drew via CnC-List 
>
> *To:* cnc-list@cnc-list.com
>
> *Cc:* Robin Drew 
>
> *Sent:* Saturday, May 28, 2016 17:26
>
> *Subject:* Stus-List Propeller
>
>
>
> I have just purchased a C&C 33 mark 2 with a 2GMF engine. It has a
> clamshell-type folding propeller that, once in gear, is causing significant
> vibration above idle speed. What could be causing this?
>
> Robin Drew
>
> Mobile: +1 514 4632060
>
> *"The only thing we have to fear is fear itself" - FDR*
> --
>
> ___
>
> This list is supported by the generous donations of our members. If you
> like what we do, please help us pay for our costs by donating. All
> Contributions are greatly appreciated!
>
> ___
>
> This list is supported by the generous donations of our members. If you
> like what we do, please help us pay for our costs by donating. All
> Contributions are greatly appreciated!
>
> ___
>
> This list is supported by the generous donations of our members. If you
> like what we do, please help us pay for our costs by donating. All
> Contributions are greatly appreciated!
>
> ___
>
> This list is supported by the generous donations of our members. If you
> like what we do, please help us pay for our costs by donating. All
> Contributions are greatly appreciated!
>
>
> ___
>
> This list is supported by the generous donations of our members. If you
> like what we do, please help us pay for our costs by donating. All
> Contributions are greatly appreciated!
>
>
___

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what we do, please help us pay for our costs by donating. All Contributions are 
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Re: Stus-List Propeller - flexofold

[Bruno Lachance via CnC-List]

Yes, compared to the old fixed 2 blades. But maybe that old prop needed to be 
rebalanced, who knows. My prop shaft is aligned with the keel. I believe the 3 
blades makes a difference there. There is always a blade that has less 
turbulence from the keel. At least that is was I found as an explanation on the 
Web and it makes sense to me. But I don't have enough experience with different 
setup to really make a good comparison here.

Last year I decided to replace the cutless bearing and install a PSS. I ended 
up cutting the old shaft, replace it with an Aqualloy one and add a new Buck 
Algonquin split coupling. I also removed carefully the shaft strut and rebedded 
and fair it. I was lucky to be ok with minimal alignment of the engine after 
that. I hope to be fine for many years to come now. 

I also redid engine compartment insulation last year. It's not as quiet as an 
Oyster ;), but it is quieter and it runs smoother than before. I can't exactly 
identify the main reason since I changed everything at the same time.

Bruno
C&c 33 mk II
Becassine.






Envoyé de mon iPad

> Le 9 juin 2016 à 23:04, Andrew Burton via CnC-List  a 
> écrit :
> 
> Bruno, did you find there was less vibration with the three blade prop?
> 
> Andy
> C&C 40
> Peregrine
> 
> Andrew Burton
> 61 W Narragansett
> Newport, RI 
> USA02840
> 
> http://sites.google.com/site/andrewburtonyachtservices/
> +401 965-5260
> 
>> On Jun 9, 2016, at 22:15, Bruno Lachance via CnC-List 
>>  wrote:
>> 
>> Mike,
>> 
>> The 3 blades Flexofold, 15" / 11" was 1 520 US $ two years ago, including 
>> the 50$ freight charge. Plus the 
>> 
>> It replaced an original Martec fixed blades that was 16" / 10" pitch.
>> 
>> Envoyé de mon iPad
>> 
>>> Le 7 juin 2016 à 08:21, Hoyt, Mike via CnC-List  a 
>>> écrit :
>>> 
>>> Bruno
>>>  
>>> What did they charge you for that prop?
>>>  
>>> Mike
>>>  
>>> 
___

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Re: Stus-List Propeller - flexofold

[Andrew Burton via CnC-List]

Bruno, did you find there was less vibration with the three blade prop?

Andy
C&C 40
Peregrine

Andrew Burton
61 W Narragansett
Newport, RI 
USA02840

http://sites.google.com/site/andrewburtonyachtservices/
+401 965-5260

> On Jun 9, 2016, at 22:15, Bruno Lachance via CnC-List  
> wrote:
> 
> Mike,
> 
> The 3 blades Flexofold, 15" / 11" was 1 520 US $ two years ago, including the 
> 50$ freight charge. Plus the 
> 
> It replaced an original Martec fixed blades that was 16" / 10" pitch.
> 
> Envoyé de mon iPad
> 
>> Le 7 juin 2016 à 08:21, Hoyt, Mike via CnC-List  a 
>> écrit :
>> 
>> Bruno
>>  
>> What did they charge you for that prop?
>>  
>> Mike
>>  
>> From: CnC-List [mailto:cnc-list-boun...@cnc-list.com] On Behalf Of Bruno 
>> Lachance via CnC-List
>> Sent: Monday, June 06, 2016 7:00 PM
>> To: cnc-list@cnc-list.com
>> Cc: Bruno Lachance
>> Subject: Re: Stus-List Propeller
>>  
>> Robin,
>>  
>> I do remember the original fixed blades prop of my 33 mk II with original 
>> Yanmar 2gmf was 16", will have to check for the pitch but I think it is 12. 
>> I will be back home in two days to verify that.
>>  
>> I ordered a Flexofold 3 blades and they recommended 15" /9". The blade area 
>> is larger and I think it is too much prop for my boat, I can't push the 
>> engine over 2800. But it is a good prop and I deal with it.
>>  
>> Bruno lachance
>> Becassine, 33 mkIi
>> New Richmond, Qc
>> 
>> 
>> Envoyé de mon iPad
>> 
>> Le 5 juin 2016 à 22:29, Robin Drew via CnC-List  a 
>> écrit :
>> 
>> Thanks. I just bought the boat and I'm pretty annoyed but sure the problem 
>> is that it's  worn and needs maintenance. I'm planning on removing it and 
>> putting a simple 2 blade prop on, at least for now.
>>  
>> It's hard to get info about the size and pitch specs. However, I found a 
>> website in BC that has a prop calculator and it gave me 15" with 9" pitch 
>> for my boat (CNC 33/2), engine and transmission. Does this sound right?
>> 
>> Any comments?
>> Robin Drew
>> Mobile: +1 514 4632060
>> 
>>  
>> Steve Thomas
>> C&C27 MKIII
>> Port Stanley, ON  
>> - Original Message -
>> From: Robin Drew via CnC-List
>> To: cnc-list@cnc-list.com
>> Cc: Robin Drew
>> Sent: Saturday, May 28, 2016 17:26
>> Subject: Stus-List Propeller
>>  
>> I have just purchased a C&C 33 mark 2 with a 2GMF engine. It has a 
>> clamshell-type folding propeller that, once in gear, is causing significant 
>> vibration above idle speed. What could be causing this?
>> 
>> Robin Drew
>> Mobile: +1 514 4632060
>> "The only thing we have to fear is fear itself" - FDR
>> ___
>> 
>> This list is supported by the generous donations of our members. If you like 
>> what we do, please help us pay for our costs by donating. All Contributions 
>> are greatly appreciated!
>> ___
>> 
>> This list is supported by the generous donations of our members. If you like 
>> what we do, please help us pay for our costs by donating. All Contributions 
>> are greatly appreciated!
>> ___
>> 
>> This list is supported by the generous donations of our members. If you like 
>> what we do, please help us pay for our costs by donating. All Contributions 
>> are greatly appreciated!
>> ___
>> 
>> This list is supported by the generous donations of our members. If you like 
>> what we do, please help us pay for our costs by donating. All Contributions 
>> are greatly appreciated!
> ___
> 
> This list is supported by the generous donations of our members. If you like 
> what we do, please help us pay for our costs by donating. All Contributions 
> are greatly appreciated!
___

This list is supported by the generous donations of our members. If you like 
what we do, please help us pay for our costs by donating. All Contributions are 
greatly appreciated!

Re: Stus-List Propeller - flexofold

[Bruno Lachance via CnC-List]

Mike,

The 3 blades Flexofold, 15" / 11" was 1 520 US $ two years ago, including the 
50$ freight charge. Plus the 

It replaced an original Martec fixed blades that was 16" / 10" pitch.

Envoyé de mon iPad

> Le 7 juin 2016 à 08:21, Hoyt, Mike via CnC-List  a 
> écrit :
> 
> Bruno
>  
> What did they charge you for that prop?
>  
> Mike
>  
> From: CnC-List [mailto:cnc-list-boun...@cnc-list.com] On Behalf Of Bruno 
> Lachance via CnC-List
> Sent: Monday, June 06, 2016 7:00 PM
> To: cnc-list@cnc-list.com
> Cc: Bruno Lachance
> Subject: Re: Stus-List Propeller
>  
> Robin,
>  
> I do remember the original fixed blades prop of my 33 mk II with original 
> Yanmar 2gmf was 16", will have to check for the pitch but I think it is 12. I 
> will be back home in two days to verify that.
>  
> I ordered a Flexofold 3 blades and they recommended 15" /9". The blade area 
> is larger and I think it is too much prop for my boat, I can't push the 
> engine over 2800. But it is a good prop and I deal with it.
>  
> Bruno lachance
> Becassine, 33 mkIi
> New Richmond, Qc
> 
> 
> Envoyé de mon iPad
> 
> Le 5 juin 2016 à 22:29, Robin Drew via CnC-List  a 
> écrit :
> 
> Thanks. I just bought the boat and I'm pretty annoyed but sure the problem is 
> that it's  worn and needs maintenance. I'm planning on removing it and 
> putting a simple 2 blade prop on, at least for now.
>  
> It's hard to get info about the size and pitch specs. However, I found a 
> website in BC that has a prop calculator and it gave me 15" with 9" pitch for 
> my boat (CNC 33/2), engine and transmission. Does this sound right?
> 
> Any comments?
> Robin Drew
> Mobile: +1 514 4632060
> 
>  
> Steve Thomas
> C&C27 MKIII
> Port Stanley, ON  
> - Original Message -
> From: Robin Drew via CnC-List
> To: cnc-list@cnc-list.com
> Cc: Robin Drew
> Sent: Saturday, May 28, 2016 17:26
> Subject: Stus-List Propeller
>  
> I have just purchased a C&C 33 mark 2 with a 2GMF engine. It has a 
> clamshell-type folding propeller that, once in gear, is causing significant 
> vibration above idle speed. What could be causing this?
> 
> Robin Drew
> Mobile: +1 514 4632060
> "The only thing we have to fear is fear itself" - FDR
> ___
> 
> This list is supported by the generous donations of our members. If you like 
> what we do, please help us pay for our costs by donating. All Contributions 
> are greatly appreciated!
> ___
> 
> This list is supported by the generous donations of our members. If you like 
> what we do, please help us pay for our costs by donating. All Contributions 
> are greatly appreciated!
> ___
> 
> This list is supported by the generous donations of our members. If you like 
> what we do, please help us pay for our costs by donating. All Contributions 
> are greatly appreciated!
> ___
> 
> This list is supported by the generous donations of our members. If you like 
> what we do, please help us pay for our costs by donating. All Contributions 
> are greatly appreciated!
___

This list is supported by the generous donations of our members. If you like 
what we do, please help us pay for our costs by donating. All Contributions are 
greatly appreciated!

Re: Stus-List Kanzaki Transmission in forward or reverse

[Russ & Melody via CnC-List]

Hi Dave,

For most marine gearboxes the output flange 
bearing is a thrust bearing. There to take up the shaft thrust fore and aft.
Try to move that output flange forward or back, 
it will seem like it's stuck fast. discalimer about some nimrod not attempting this while engine is running>


cheers, Russ
Sweet 35 mk-1

At 09:13 AM 09/06/2016, you wrote:
I believe, because while sailing in fwd 
(dragging the prop along) Â there is "negative 
thrust" on the clutch cone bearing surfaces, 
allowing the clutch to slip.  (when powering, 
the prop is instead pushing forward, loading 
those surfaces) Â Â  In neutral, the clutch 
cones are centred, freewheeling, Â and are not 
engaging their mating surfaces, and in reverse, 
the mating surfaces are engaged as they would be 
when actually powering in reverse, with the 
prop's drag actually increasing the pressure on the mating surfaces.


At least that's my theory... until corrected.

Mine rotates in fwd and neutral, not in reverse.

Dave

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Re: Stus-List Gear, shaft positin, transmissin, foldin

[Russ & Melody via CnC-List]

Hi Mike,

It sounds like you just won your own argument.

Cheers, Russ
Sweet 35 mk-1, Kiwi-Prop

At 05:47 AM 09/06/2016, you wrote:
The two things I take away from this are that 1. YES - a geared 
folding prop is much better than a floppy Martec folding prop and 
that 2. a Martec folding prop should have shaft aligned such that 
the blades are horizontal so that they stay folded esp in light wind.



Therefore the only real conclusion is to lose the Martec and obtain 
a Flex-O-Fold


Mike
Persistence
Halifax

--
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Re: Stus-List Right of way (ROW) discussion

[Sam Wheeler via CnC-List]

I had an exciting freighter experience this past weekend.

I went for a leisurely sunset sail with a couple of friends on Saturday
from San Francisco (where I had parked the boat for a few days) across the
bay to Emeryville (where I am permanently berthed).  We were probably about
a half-mile south of the Bay Bridge when a cargo ship came under the bridge
and turned to port, east towards Oakland - a course that would cross well
ahead of us without ever getting close.

About a minute after making the turn east, the freighter made a sudden
starboard turn to the west, which put it on course straight for us.  The
wind was light and we weren't moving very fast, but our course was
perpendicular to the ship's, and I figured we would probably pass ahead of
it at this point.  But it continues to bear down on us - those things
always move faster than I expect - and blows a few horn blasts, so we
scramble to fire up the engine and open up the throttle.

With the engine going strong, we're in good shape to get out of the way.
All clear, we start to relax and laugh about the situation.  Then the cargo
ship alters course again.  At first I think I'm imagining it, but it's
turning steadily to port, apparently tracking us to stay aimed straight at
my boat, and continues to close the distance.

So I hand off the wheel and run for the radio.  Hail "unidentified cargo
vessel" (hard to read a name when it's coming straight at you) on channel
16, and the Coast Guard helpfully tells me that ships only monitor 13.  Try
again on the right channel.

The pilot responds right away.  It turns out he's just turning in a circle
to drop anchor.  No danger, he sees us, and we're fine on our course.  We
shut the engine down and had a nice sail the rest of the way.  (Here's a
video  of the post-freighter portion of the
trip.)

Takeaways:
(1)  Count the horns.  My guess in retrospect is that he blew three to
indicate that he was in reverse and starting to slow down, not five for
"get out of the way if you don't want to be a smudge on my hull," which is
what I took it as.

(2)  I need get myself a handheld radio that I can use from the helm.

Sam
35-3
SF

On Thu, Jun 9, 2016 at 1:46 PM, Indigo via CnC-List 
wrote:

>  Here's the link to the video of the idiotic sailor who tried to cross in
> front of a freighter during Cowes Week in 2011. The skipper was fined GBP
> 3000!
> https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=_tUoUxzt9sI
>
> --
> Jonathan
> Indigo C&C 35III
> SOUTHPORT CT
>
> On Jun 9, 2016, at 16:01, robert via CnC-List 
> wrote:
>
> Tanzer 26 actually broadsided a container ship
>
>
> ___
>
> This list is supported by the generous donations of our members. If you
> like what we do, please help us pay for our costs by donating. All
> Contributions are greatly appreciated!
>
>
___

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what we do, please help us pay for our costs by donating. All Contributions are 
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Re: Stus-List Right of way (ROW) discussion

[Indigo via CnC-List]

 Here's the link to the video of the idiotic sailor who tried to cross in front 
of a freighter during Cowes Week in 2011. The skipper was fined GBP 3000!
https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=_tUoUxzt9sI

--
Jonathan
Indigo C&C 35III
SOUTHPORT CT

> On Jun 9, 2016, at 16:01, robert via CnC-List  wrote:
> 
> Tanzer 26 actually broadsided a container ship
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Re: Stus-List Right of way (ROW) discussion

[robert via CnC-List]

Rick / Mike:

I think we have an over zealous 'Pilot'.Last Summer, I witnessed 
something quite unusual.an out going 'pilot boat' around the Point 
Pleasant Shoal mark turned around and blasted a sail boat in the path of 
an outgoing container vessel which was still back by George's Island.  
In no way was the sail boat going to impede the container 
vessel.there was plenty of time and plenty of room for there to be 
no issue.


Nevertheless, the 'Pilot', in my opinion, was harassing the sail boat.

Mike, on the other hand, some years back, a sailor from our club with a 
Tanzer 26 actually broadsided a container ship in the same Point 
Pleasant shoal area during a Wednesday night race.  Yep, it's not BS, I 
personally witnessed it and could not believe it actually happened.


Needed to say, the Harbor Master sent our club a nasty letter and 
restricted out Wednesday night racing to the far west side of the harbor 
for the remained of the season.  Hopefully, the Harbor Master won't be 
involved with last night's situation.


Rob Abbott
AZURA
C&C 32 - 84
Halifax, N.S.

On 2016-06-09 4:14 PM, Rick Taillieu via CnC-List wrote:


Mike,

We heard that from our side of the harbour.

Were boats actually in the way of the container ship or was the pilot 
boat overreacting again.


He must have given you guys the /five toot salute/ at least four times.

Rick Taillieu

Nemesis

'75 C&C 25  #371

Shearwater Yacht Club

Halifax, NS.

*From:*CnC-List [mailto:cnc-list-boun...@cnc-list.com] *On Behalf Of 
*Hoyt, Mike via CnC-List

*Sent:* June-09-16 09:40
*To:* cnc-list@cnc-list.com
*Cc:* Hoyt, Mike
*Subject:* Re: Stus-List Right of way (ROW) discussion

Chuck

It seems that Pilot boats use horn signals and that Container ships 
trump all vessels.


Last evening during a Wednesday race with 30+ sailboats in varying 
classes in light winds the Pilot boat leaving the harbour stopped mid 
fleet turned backwards and repeatedly sounded their horn for a period 
of minutes.  Have never seen that before.  I suspect is also not the 
last we will hear of this.


I doubt the pilot boat or ship would have had any patience with stand 
up paddle boarders either as we clearly know who is on the top of the 
heap in ROW discussions!


Mike

*From:*CnC-List [mailto:cnc-list-boun...@cnc-list.com] *On Behalf Of 
*Chuck S via CnC-List

*Sent:* Wednesday, June 08, 2016 7:35 PM
*To:* CNC boat owners, cnc-list
*Cc:* Chuck S
*Subject:* Re: Stus-List Right of way (ROW) discussion

I took all the coast guard and power squadron courses and learned all 
the regs and rules and horn signals and flag signals and right o way 
stuff. What I learned from 35 years of observation is; nobody uses 
horn signals or flag signals and lawyers have the right of way, so 
never invoke right of way unless you are racing, always take steps to 
avoid collisions early, and don't ever hit a lawyer.


Chuck
*/Resolute/*
1990 C&C 34R
Broad Creek, Magothy River, Md



*From: *"ALAN BERGEN via CnC-List" >
*To: *"cnc-list-requ...@cnc-list.com 
" >
*Cc: *"ALAN BERGEN" >

*Sent: *Wednesday, June 8, 2016 1:33:59 PM
*Subject: *Re: Stus-List Right of way (ROW) discussion

It seems to me that there are a number of people on this list who 
don't know the rules.  Perhaps it's time to read Chapman's "Piloting, 
Seamanship and Small Boat Handling".  The pecking order is:  rowboats 
(including kayaks, canoes, paddle boards), sailboats, powerboats.  
Then there are exceptions:  tug pulling a barge moves up the pecking 
order; overtaking boat moves down the pecking order and I'm sure there 
are more.


Alan Bergen

35 Mk III Thirsty

Rose City YC

Portland, OR

On Wed, Jun 8, 2016 at 8:25 AM, Frederick G Street via CnC-List 
mailto:cnc-list@cnc-list.com>> wrote:


From Urban Dictionary:

*dufus* 



dummy, fool, idiot

OR

*doofus* 
 



Someone who hasn't got a clue!
They live in blissful ignorance of the world, fashion, personal 
hygiene and social skills.


Fred Street -- Minneapolis
S/V /Oceanis/ (1979 C&C Landfall 38) -- Bayfield, WI

On Jun 8, 2016, at 10:20 AM, Rick Brass via CnC-List
mailto:cnc-list@cnc-list.com>> wrote:

BTW, exactly how do

Re: Stus-List Right of way (ROW) discussion

[Rick Taillieu via CnC-List]

Mike,

 

We heard that from our side of the harbour.

Were boats actually in the way of the container ship or was the pilot boat 
overreacting again.

He must have given you guys the five toot salute at least four times.

 

Rick Taillieu

Nemesis

'75 C&C 25  #371

Shearwater Yacht Club

Halifax, NS.

 

 

 

From: CnC-List [mailto:cnc-list-boun...@cnc-list.com] On Behalf Of Hoyt, Mike 
via CnC-List
Sent: June-09-16 09:40
To: cnc-list@cnc-list.com
Cc: Hoyt, Mike
Subject: Re: Stus-List Right of way (ROW) discussion

 

Chuck

 

It seems that Pilot boats use horn signals and that Container ships trump all 
vessels.

 

Last evening during a Wednesday race with 30+ sailboats in varying classes in 
light winds the Pilot boat leaving the harbour stopped mid fleet turned 
backwards and repeatedly sounded their horn for a period of minutes.  Have 
never seen that before.  I suspect is also not the last we will hear of this.  

 

I doubt the pilot boat or ship would have had any patience with stand up paddle 
boarders either as we clearly know who is on the top of the heap in ROW 
discussions!

 

Mike

 

From: CnC-List [mailto:cnc-list-boun...@cnc-list.com] On Behalf Of Chuck S via 
CnC-List
Sent: Wednesday, June 08, 2016 7:35 PM
To: CNC boat owners, cnc-list
Cc: Chuck S
Subject: Re: Stus-List Right of way (ROW) discussion

 

I took all the coast guard and power squadron courses and learned all the regs 
and rules and horn signals and flag signals and right o way stuff.  What I 
learned from 35 years of observation is; nobody uses horn signals or flag 
signals and lawyers have the right of way, so never invoke right of way unless 
you are racing, always take steps to avoid collisions early, and don't ever hit 
a lawyer.  

 

 

 

Chuck
Resolute
1990 C&C 34R
Broad Creek, Magothy River, Md

 

  _  

From: "ALAN BERGEN via CnC-List" 
To: "cnc-list-requ...@cnc-list.com" 
Cc: "ALAN BERGEN" 
Sent: Wednesday, June 8, 2016 1:33:59 PM
Subject: Re: Stus-List Right of way (ROW) discussion

 

It seems to me that there are a number of people on this list who don't know 
the rules.  Perhaps it's time to read Chapman's "Piloting, Seamanship and Small 
Boat Handling".  The pecking order is:  rowboats (including kayaks, canoes, 
paddle boards), sailboats, powerboats.  Then there are exceptions:  tug pulling 
a barge moves up the pecking order; overtaking boat moves down the pecking 
order and I'm sure there are more.

 

Alan Bergen

35 Mk III Thirsty

Rose City YC

Portland, OR

 

On Wed, Jun 8, 2016 at 8:25 AM, Frederick G Street via CnC-List 
 wrote:

>From Urban Dictionary:

 

 

 dufus

dummy, fool, idiot

OR

 

 

 doofus 

Someone who hasn't got a clue! 
They live in blissful ignorance of the world, fashion, personal hygiene and 
social skills. 

 

Fred Street -- Minneapolis
S/V Oceanis (1979 C&C Landfall 38) -- Bayfield, WI

 

On Jun 8, 2016, at 10:20 AM, Rick Brass via CnC-List  
wrote:

 

BTW, exactly how do you spell the word/term pronounced “doo-fuss”?


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what we do, please help us pay for our costs by donating. All Contributions are 
greatly appreciated!

 

  _  

No virus found in this message.
Checked by AVG - www.avg.com
Version: 2016.0.7639 / Virus Database: 4598/12391 - Release Date: 06/09/16

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Stus-List Gear, shaft positin, transmission, folding

[Daniel Sheer via CnC-List]

I like my MaxProp 2 blade. Instant bite in reverse, better than a fixed prop. 
Feathers easily. Leave the gear in reverse. Maybe a little more drag than 
folding, but it works well. Also, it's adjustable, and I've been able to 
maximize my engine performance over the years (got to be out of the water to 
adjust the pitch). Dem's my 2 cents.
Dan SheerPegathy - LF38Rock Creek off the Patapsco

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Re: Stus-List Gear, shaft positin, transmission, folding ---- RE: (no subject)

[Bruno Lachance via CnC-List]

For me it was a priority to buy a nice prop.
 
I was loosing sleep over the drag of my old fixed prop to my boat that i wanted 
to race, and was also going crazy earing the prop free spin underway. I had to 
do something and choose a Flexofold that was cheaper than a maxprop.
 
My flexofold will spin in neutral, so i put it in reverse knowing i am not 
causing any arm to the transmission.
 
I prefer to spend my money on nice sails that i can see and enjoy, but a good 
prop is also important in my opinion.
 
Bruno Lachance
Becassine, C&C 33 mkII
New-Richmond, Qc

 
> To: cnc-list@cnc-list.com
> Date: Thu, 9 Jun 2016 12:47:34 +
> Subject: Stus-List Gear, shaft positin, transmission, folding   RE:  (no 
> subject)
> From: cnc-list@cnc-list.com
> CC: mike.h...@impgroup.com
> 
> The two things I take away from this are that 1. YES - a geared folding prop 
> is much better than a floppy Martec folding prop and that 2. a Martec folding 
> prop should have shaft aligned such that the blades are horizontal so that 
> they stay folded esp in light wind.
> 
> So if the shaft is aligned that likely means not in neutral.  Back to 
> original argument
> 
> Persistence has an oversized engine.  3GM30F where all C&C33-2 and Frers 33 
> come stock with 2GM20F.  Behind the transmission there is BARELY sufficient 
> distance on shaft for the dripless shaft seal.  The coupling would have to be 
> marked in order to know the shaft was aligned.  This is all well and good but 
> which crew member am I going to convince to climb inside the cockpit locker 
> (after removing any contents), unfasten the fabric separator between locker 
> and engine compartment, wiggle in a contorted position to get access to the 
> coupler and shaft?  It is theoretically possible for us to align shaft but in 
> practicality is impossible.
> 
> Therefore the only real conclusion is to lose the Martec and obtain a 
> Flex-O-Fold
> 
> Mike
> Persistence
> Halifax
> 
> -Original Message-
> From: CnC-List [mailto:cnc-list-boun...@cnc-list.com] On Behalf Of Jake 
> Brodersen via CnC-List
> Sent: Wednesday, June 08, 2016 7:46 PM
> To: cnc-list@cnc-list.com
> Cc: Jake Brodersen
> Subject: Re: Stus-List (no subject)
> 
> Tom,
> 
> I put mine in reverse to stop the prop, then position the shaft so the blades 
> are folded.  Then I put it back into reverse to lock them in place.
> It's easy, especially if you mark the shaft position when the boat is out of 
> the water.
> 
> Jake
> 
> 
> Jake Brodersen
> C&C 35 Mk-III "Midnight Mistress"
> Hampton VA
> 
> 
> ___
> 
> This list is supported by the generous donations of our members. If you like 
> what we do, please help us pay for our costs by donating. All Contributions 
> are greatly appreciated!
  ___

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what we do, please help us pay for our costs by donating. All Contributions are 
greatly appreciated!

Re: Stus-List Gear, shaft positin, transmission, folding ---- RE: (no subject)

[Bruno Lachance via CnC-List]

Mike,
 
I will get back to you tonight with the price of my Flexofold 3 blades. It was 
not chead and i remebered i had to pay a ridiculously high custom clearance fee 
to UPS, I hate them since.
 
I was convinced to go 3 blades after reading a lot about prop balance and 
vibration. It is more expensive, but i went for it and i am very happy. I have 
less vibration than with my old fixed two blades.
 
It stops the boat quickly in reverse with minimal prop walk and i achieve 
target speed at low rpm, wich is good on fuel but i know it can lead to carbon 
buildup. To remediate that i do push the engine sometime but over 2800- 2900 
the engine is loaded and the black smoke comes out. So instead i push it in 
neutral at the dock. I remember some recommandations from Yanmar on this. 
something like: high revs for a moment to burn everything and then iddle to 
cool down the engine and then shut it off.
 
I do still think that my prop is bit too much for my small engine. And if i had 
to buy another i might go with a two blades instead because everybody seems 
satisfied with it.
 
 My prop would be perfect for your 3 GMF! ;)
 
Bruno.

 
> To: cnc-list@cnc-list.com
> Date: Thu, 9 Jun 2016 12:47:34 +
> Subject: Stus-List Gear, shaft positin, transmission, folding   RE:  (no 
> subject)
> From: cnc-list@cnc-list.com
> CC: mike.h...@impgroup.com
> 
> The two things I take away from this are that 1. YES - a geared folding prop 
> is much better than a floppy Martec folding prop and that 2. a Martec folding 
> prop should have shaft aligned such that the blades are horizontal so that 
> they stay folded esp in light wind.
> 
> So if the shaft is aligned that likely means not in neutral.  Back to 
> original argument
> 
> Persistence has an oversized engine.  3GM30F where all C&C33-2 and Frers 33 
> come stock with 2GM20F.  Behind the transmission there is BARELY sufficient 
> distance on shaft for the dripless shaft seal.  The coupling would have to be 
> marked in order to know the shaft was aligned.  This is all well and good but 
> which crew member am I going to convince to climb inside the cockpit locker 
> (after removing any contents), unfasten the fabric separator between locker 
> and engine compartment, wiggle in a contorted position to get access to the 
> coupler and shaft?  It is theoretically possible for us to align shaft but in 
> practicality is impossible.
> 
> Therefore the only real conclusion is to lose the Martec and obtain a 
> Flex-O-Fold
> 
> Mike
> Persistence
> Halifax
> 
> -Original Message-
> From: CnC-List [mailto:cnc-list-boun...@cnc-list.com] On Behalf Of Jake 
> Brodersen via CnC-List
> Sent: Wednesday, June 08, 2016 7:46 PM
> To: cnc-list@cnc-list.com
> Cc: Jake Brodersen
> Subject: Re: Stus-List (no subject)
> 
> Tom,
> 
> I put mine in reverse to stop the prop, then position the shaft so the blades 
> are folded.  Then I put it back into reverse to lock them in place.
> It's easy, especially if you mark the shaft position when the boat is out of 
> the water.
> 
> Jake
> 
> 
> Jake Brodersen
> C&C 35 Mk-III "Midnight Mistress"
> Hampton VA
> 
> 
> ___
> 
> This list is supported by the generous donations of our members. If you like 
> what we do, please help us pay for our costs by donating. All Contributions 
> are greatly appreciated!
  ___

This list is supported by the generous donations of our members. If you like 
what we do, please help us pay for our costs by donating. All Contributions are 
greatly appreciated!

Re: Stus-List Kanzaki Transmission in forward or reverse

[Dave Syer via CnC-List]

I believe, because while sailing in fwd (dragging the prop along)  there is
"negative thrust" on the clutch cone bearing surfaces, allowing the clutch
to slip.  (when powering, the prop is instead pushing forward, loading
those surfaces)In neutral, the clutch cones are centred, freewheeling,
 and are not engaging their mating surfaces, and in reverse, the mating
surfaces are engaged as they would be when actually powering in reverse,
with the prop's drag actually increasing the pressure on the mating
surfaces.

At least that's my theory... until corrected.

Mine rotates in fwd and neutral, not in reverse.

Dave



 Message: 3
Date: Thu, 9 Jun 2016 07:43:40 -0400
From: Gary Russell 
To: "C&C List" 
Subject: Re: Stus-List Kanzaki Transmission in forward or reverse
while   sailing?
Message-ID:

Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8"

Why is  the prop turning if you are in gear?
Gary

~~~_/)~~


On Wed, Jun 8, 2016 at 1:09 PM, Rick Brass via CnC-List <
cnc-list@cnc-list.com> wrote:

> The point is that the engine and any gears in the transmission are not
> turning, but the prop shaft will be rotating in the forward direction. So
> the clutch plate that transmits power to the prop shaft will be turning,
> with very light pressure between the drive plate and the clutch surface
> (which, IIRC, on a Kanzaki is a double ended cone?). That leads to glazing
> of the drive and driven plates, rapid clutch wear, and premature
> transmission rebuild
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what we do, please help us pay for our costs by donating. All Contributions are 
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Re: Stus-List Kanzaki Transmission in forward or reverse while sailing?

[Garry Cross via CnC-List]

Good to know. On mine if I put it in gear I need to start the engine to get
it out as the pressure while still sailing makes the shift lever very stiff
to move to neutral and that can't be good for the mechanism. I do not have
a folding prop. With a spinning prop, while not as good as folding, the
drag should be reduced somewhat as opposed to having it not spin.

Regards.
Garry Cross
1974 CC35-II
CBYC, Toronto.

-- Forwarded message --
From: Joel Aronson 
To: "cnc-list@cnc-list.com" 
Cc:
Date: Wed, 8 Jun 2016 10:17:33 -0400
Subject: Re: Stus-List Kanzaki Transmission in forward or reverse while
sailing?
Advisory Number: MSA08-003:

DATE February 8, 2008 Dealers and OEMs
TO: All Marine Distributors
SUBJECT: Gear in Neutral While Sailing All MODELS:

All Sailboat Engines

We continue to get questions regarding the correct gear position while
sailing with the engine OFF. This advisory is issued as a reminder; Yanmar
requires that if sailing with the engine OFF (not running) the transmission
shifter must be in the neutral position or internal damage to the gear or
sail-drive will result. This damage will not be covered by Yanmar's Limited
Warranty. Please instruct customers and dealers who deliver the sailboat to
the customer, of the correct (Neutral) position for the marine gear while
sailing.

If the customer desires that the propeller shaft not spin while sailing,
either a folding propeller, shaft break, or other suitable device may be
used. However, Yanmar accepts no responsibility for the selection,
installation, or operation of such devices. Please also refer to Marine
service advisory "MSA07-001_Yanmar Sail Drive Propeller Selection" for
additional information.

If you have any questions regarding this advisory please contact a Customer
Support representative."
___

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what we do, please help us pay for our costs by donating. All Contributions are 
greatly appreciated!

Re: Stus-List Kanzaki Transmission in forward or reverse while sailing?

[Aliant via CnC-List]

Our Westerbeke manual recommends transmission in the neutral position, but goes 
on to say that leaving it in the forward position will not damage the engine.

Wayne Anstey
Resilience
1974 C&C 30 mk1

Sent from my iPad

> On Jun 9, 2016, at 10:18 AM, Jean-Francois J Rivard via CnC-List 
>  wrote:
> 
> + 1 on reverse while sailing specifically for folding or feathering props.  
> 
>  If you leave it in neutral or forward it will freewheel and keep it from 
> folding.  I don't know exactly why it still freewheels in forward but I do 
> know it does. 
> 
> As for fixed props, Yanmar is very specific:  
> 
> Advisory Number: MSA08-003:
> 
> DATE February 8, 2008 Dealers and OEMs
> TO: All Marine Distributors
> SUBJECT: Gear in Neutral While Sailing All MODELS: 
> 
> All Sailboat Engines 
> 
> We continue to get questions regarding the correct gear position while 
> sailing with the engine OFF. This advisory is issued as a reminder; Yanmar 
> requires that if sailing with the engine OFF (not running) the transmission 
> shifter must be in the neutral position or internal damage to the gear or 
> sail-drive will result. This damage will not be covered by Yanmar’s Limited 
> Warranty. Please instruct customers and dealers who deliver the sailboat to 
> the customer, of the correct (Neutral) position for the marine gear while 
> sailing.
> 
> If the customer desires that the propeller shaft not spin while sailing, 
> either a folding propeller, shaft break, or other suitable device may be 
> used. However, Yanmar accepts no responsibility for the selection, 
> installation, or operation of such devices. Please also refer to Marine 
> service advisory “MSA07-001_Yanmar Sail Drive Propeller Selection” for 
> additional information.
> 
> If you have any questions regarding this advisory please contact a Customer 
> Support representative. 
> 
> 
> -Francois Rivard
> 1990 34+ "Take Five"
> Lake Lanier, GA
> ___
> 
> This list is supported by the generous donations of our members. If you like 
> what we do, please help us pay for our costs by donating. All Contributions 
> are greatly appreciated!
___

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what we do, please help us pay for our costs by donating. All Contributions are 
greatly appreciated!

Stus-List Kanzaki Transmission in forward or reverse while sailing?

[Jean-Francois J Rivard via CnC-List]

+ 1 on reverse while sailing specifically for folding or feathering props. 
 

 If you leave it in neutral or forward it will freewheel and keep it from 
folding.  I don't know exactly why it still freewheels in forward but I do 
know it does. 

As for fixed props, Yanmar is very specific: 

Advisory Number: MSA08-003:

DATE February 8, 2008 Dealers and OEMs
TO: All Marine Distributors
SUBJECT: Gear in Neutral While Sailing All MODELS: 

All Sailboat Engines 

We continue to get questions regarding the correct gear position while 
sailing with the engine OFF. This advisory is issued as a reminder; Yanmar 
requires that if sailing with the engine OFF (not running) the 
transmission shifter must be in the neutral position or internal damage to 
the gear or sail-drive will result. This damage will not be covered by 
Yanmar’s Limited Warranty. Please instruct customers and dealers who 
deliver the sailboat to the customer, of the correct (Neutral) position 
for the marine gear while sailing.

If the customer desires that the propeller shaft not spin while sailing, 
either a folding propeller, shaft break, or other suitable device may be 
used. However, Yanmar accepts no responsibility for the selection, 
installation, or operation of such devices. Please also refer to Marine 
service advisory “MSA07-001_Yanmar Sail Drive Propeller Selection” for 
additional information.

If you have any questions regarding this advisory please contact a 
Customer Support representative. 


-Francois Rivard
1990 34+ "Take Five"
Lake Lanier, GA

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what we do, please help us pay for our costs by donating. All Contributions are 
greatly appreciated!

Stus-List Gear, shaft positin, transmission, folding ---- RE: (no subject)

[Hoyt, Mike via CnC-List]

The two things I take away from this are that 1. YES - a geared folding prop is 
much better than a floppy Martec folding prop and that 2. a Martec folding prop 
should have shaft aligned such that the blades are horizontal so that they stay 
folded esp in light wind.

So if the shaft is aligned that likely means not in neutral.  Back to original 
argument

Persistence has an oversized engine.  3GM30F where all C&C33-2 and Frers 33 
come stock with 2GM20F.  Behind the transmission there is BARELY sufficient 
distance on shaft for the dripless shaft seal.  The coupling would have to be 
marked in order to know the shaft was aligned.  This is all well and good but 
which crew member am I going to convince to climb inside the cockpit locker 
(after removing any contents), unfasten the fabric separator between locker and 
engine compartment, wiggle in a contorted position to get access to the coupler 
and shaft?  It is theoretically possible for us to align shaft but in 
practicality is impossible.

Therefore the only real conclusion is to lose the Martec and obtain a 
Flex-O-Fold

Mike
Persistence
Halifax

-Original Message-
From: CnC-List [mailto:cnc-list-boun...@cnc-list.com] On Behalf Of Jake 
Brodersen via CnC-List
Sent: Wednesday, June 08, 2016 7:46 PM
To: cnc-list@cnc-list.com
Cc: Jake Brodersen
Subject: Re: Stus-List (no subject)

Tom,

I put mine in reverse to stop the prop, then position the shaft so the blades 
are folded.  Then I put it back into reverse to lock them in place.
It's easy, especially if you mark the shaft position when the boat is out of 
the water.

Jake


Jake Brodersen
C&C 35 Mk-III "Midnight Mistress"
Hampton VA


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what we do, please help us pay for our costs by donating. All Contributions are 
greatly appreciated!

Re: Stus-List Right of way (ROW) discussion

[Hoyt, Mike via CnC-List]

Chuck

It seems that Pilot boats use horn signals and that Container ships trump all 
vessels.

Last evening during a Wednesday race with 30+ sailboats in varying classes in 
light winds the Pilot boat leaving the harbour stopped mid fleet turned 
backwards and repeatedly sounded their horn for a period of minutes.  Have 
never seen that before.  I suspect is also not the last we will hear of this.

I doubt the pilot boat or ship would have had any patience with stand up paddle 
boarders either as we clearly know who is on the top of the heap in ROW 
discussions!

Mike

From: CnC-List [mailto:cnc-list-boun...@cnc-list.com] On Behalf Of Chuck S via 
CnC-List
Sent: Wednesday, June 08, 2016 7:35 PM
To: CNC boat owners, cnc-list
Cc: Chuck S
Subject: Re: Stus-List Right of way (ROW) discussion

I took all the coast guard and power squadron courses and learned all the regs 
and rules and horn signals and flag signals and right o way stuff.  What I 
learned from 35 years of observation is; nobody uses horn signals or flag 
signals and lawyers have the right of way, so never invoke right of way unless 
you are racing, always take steps to avoid collisions early, and don't ever hit 
a lawyer.



Chuck
Resolute
1990 C&C 34R
Broad Creek, Magothy River, Md


From: "ALAN BERGEN via CnC-List" 
mailto:cnc-list@cnc-list.com>>
To: "cnc-list-requ...@cnc-list.com" 
mailto:cnc-list@cnc-list.com>>
Cc: "ALAN BERGEN" mailto:trya...@alumni.usc.edu>>
Sent: Wednesday, June 8, 2016 1:33:59 PM
Subject: Re: Stus-List Right of way (ROW) discussion

It seems to me that there are a number of people on this list who don't know 
the rules.  Perhaps it's time to read Chapman's "Piloting, Seamanship and Small 
Boat Handling".  The pecking order is:  rowboats (including kayaks, canoes, 
paddle boards), sailboats, powerboats.  Then there are exceptions:  tug pulling 
a barge moves up the pecking order; overtaking boat moves down the pecking 
order and I'm sure there are more.

Alan Bergen
35 Mk III Thirsty
Rose City YC
Portland, OR

On Wed, Jun 8, 2016 at 8:25 AM, Frederick G Street via CnC-List 
mailto:cnc-list@cnc-list.com>> wrote:
From Urban Dictionary:

dufus
dummy, fool, idiot
OR

doofus
Someone who hasn't got a clue!
They live in blissful ignorance of the world, fashion, personal hygiene and 
social skills.

Fred Street -- Minneapolis
S/V Oceanis (1979 C&C Landfall 38) -- Bayfield, WI

On Jun 8, 2016, at 10:20 AM, Rick Brass via CnC-List 
mailto:cnc-list@cnc-list.com>> wrote:

BTW, exactly how do you spell the word/term pronounced “doo-fuss”?

___

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what we do, please help us pay for our costs by donating. All Contributions are 
greatly appreciated!


___

This list is supported by the generous donations of our members. If you like 
what we do, please help us pay for our costs by donating. All Contributions are 
greatly appreciated!

___

This list is supported by the generous donations of our members. If you like 
what we do, please help us pay for our costs by donating. All Contributions are 
greatly appreciated!

Re: Stus-List Kanzaki Transmission in forward or reverse while sailing?

[Gary Russell via CnC-List]

Why is  the prop turning if you are in gear?
Gary

~~~_/)~~


On Wed, Jun 8, 2016 at 1:09 PM, Rick Brass via CnC-List <
cnc-list@cnc-list.com> wrote:

> The point is that the engine and any gears in the transmission are not
> turning, but the prop shaft will be rotating in the forward direction. So
> the clutch plate that transmits power to the prop shaft will be turning,
> with very light pressure between the drive plate and the clutch surface
> (which, IIRC, on a Kanzaki is a double ended cone?). That leads to glazing
> of the drive and driven plates, rapid clutch wear, and premature
> transmission rebuild.
>
>
>
> *From:* CnC-List [mailto:cnc-list-boun...@cnc-list.com] *On Behalf Of *Gary
> Russell via CnC-List
> *Sent:* Wednesday, June 08, 2016 11:49 AM
> *To:* C&C List 
> *Cc:* Gary Russell 
> *Subject:* Re: Stus-List Kanzaki Transmission in forward or reverse while
> sailing?
>
>
>
> How can a transmission in reverse (gears not turning) cause wear?  I'm
> dumb-founded.
>
> Gary
>
> S/V Kaylarah
>
>
> ~~~_/)~~
>
>
>
> On Wed, Jun 8, 2016 at 10:17 AM, Joel Aronson via CnC-List <
> cnc-list@cnc-list.com> wrote:
>
> Advisory Number: MSA08-003:
>
> DATE February 8, 2008 Dealers and OEMs
> TO: All Marine Distributors
> SUBJECT: Gear in Neutral While Sailing All MODELS:
>
> All Sailboat Engines
>
> We continue to get questions regarding the correct gear position while
> sailing with the engine OFF. This advisory is issued as a reminder; Yanmar
> requires that if sailing with the engine OFF (not running) the transmission
> shifter must be in the neutral position or internal damage to the gear or
> sail-drive will result. This damage will not be covered by Yanmar's Limited
> Warranty. Please instruct customers and dealers who deliver the sailboat to
> the customer, of the correct (Neutral) position for the marine gear while
> sailing.
>
> If the customer desires that the propeller shaft not spin while sailing,
> either a folding propeller, shaft break, or other suitable device may be
> used. However, Yanmar accepts no responsibility for the selection,
> installation, or operation of such devices. Please also refer to Marine
> service advisory "MSA07-001_Yanmar Sail Drive Propeller Selection" for
> additional information.
>
> If you have any questions regarding this advisory please contact a
> Customer Support representative."
>
>
>
> On Wed, Jun 8, 2016 at 10:13 AM, Joel Aronson 
> wrote:
>
> Yes, I found the bulletin several years ago.
>
>
>
> Joel
>
>
>
> On Wed, Jun 8, 2016 at 10:08 AM, Hoyt, Mike via CnC-List <
> cnc-list@cnc-list.com> wrote:
>
> Can anybody verify this?
>
>
>
> We have a Kanzaki KM3P transmission on our Yanmar 3GM30F.  We always have
> in reverse while sailing.
>
>
>
> It would be very good to know if this is a roblem!
>
>
>
> Mike
>
>
>
> *From:* CnC-List [mailto:cnc-list-boun...@cnc-list.com] *On Behalf Of *Paul
> Baker via CnC-List
> *Sent:* Wednesday, June 08, 2016 11:05 AM
> *To:* cnc-list@cnc-list.com
> *Cc:* Paul Baker
> *Subject:* Re: Stus-List Transmission in forward or reverse while sailing?
>
>
>
> It depends on your transmission and engine. Yanmar had a bulletin a while
> back for their engines with Kanzaki transmissions stating that they should
> always be in neutral when sailing. Damage or wear to the transmission would
> occur otherwise.
> Cheers,
> Paul.
>
> > Date: Wed, 8 Jun 2016 06:36:50 -0400
> > To: cnc-list@cnc-list.com
> > Subject: Stus-List Transmission in forward or reverse while sailing?
> > From: cnc-list@cnc-list.com
> > CC: ghnewt...@gmail.com
> >
> > Which gear is recommended (forward or reverse) while sailing? When the
> transmission is in forward I can feel the shaft turning while sailing. When
> it is in reverse I don't feel it. Which is preferred?
> >
> > Sent from my iPad
> > ___
> >
> > This list is supported by the generous donations of our members. If you
> like what we do, please help us pay for our costs by donating. All
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> Joel
> 301 541 8551
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Re: Stus-List (no subject)

[Gary Russell via CnC-List]

Gary,
 I have a Flex-o-Fold also, and if I don't "lock" it, it will continue
to spin.  I use reverse.
Gary
S/V Kaylarah

~~~_/)~~


On Wed, Jun 8, 2016 at 3:26 PM, Gary Nylander via CnC-List <
cnc-list@cnc-list.com> wrote:

> I used to have a Martec. I always moved the shaft to the horizontal prop
> position to assure the blades both folded, or one could end up with a
> ‘hanging blade’ and you know how much that means!
>
>
>
> Now I have a Flex with gears – it folds in any position, and I doubt that
> it must be stopped, as the forward motion of the boat will push the blades
> backward, causing them to fold as long as the shaft is not being powered.
> I’m sure stopping it would help a lot. I have been leaving my Yanmar in
> forward for 22 years with no problems (knock on wood).
>
>
>
> Gary
>
>
>
> *From:* CnC-List [mailto:cnc-list-boun...@cnc-list.com] *On Behalf Of *ALAN
> BERGEN via CnC-List
> *Sent:* Wednesday, June 8, 2016 2:49 PM
> *To:* cnc-list-requ...@cnc-list.com 
> *Cc:* ALAN BERGEN 
> *Subject:* Re: Stus-List (no subject)
>
>
>
> For a folding prop, you do have to stop the shaft in order for it to
> fold.  You also have to center it (blades in the horizontal position) for
> both of them to fold.  With feathering props, you shift into reverse, the
> shaft turns and the prop feathers.
>
> Alan Bergen
>
>
>
> On Wed, Jun 8, 2016 at 11:20 AM, Josh Muckley via CnC-List <
> cnc-list@cnc-list.com> wrote:
>
> Gary,
>
> I believe the list has addressed this before but I'll throw it out there
> again.
>
> A freewheeling prop has less resistance than a fixed one.  There are a few
> assumptions being make in that statement.
> *Fixed blade prop
> *No shaft driven generator/alternator.
>
> The navy does it regularly.  As a throttleman onboard an aircraft carrier
> with 4 shafts, I can tell you, a trailing shaft always required less
> compensation than a fixed shaft.  The only reason we ever stopped the shaft
> was to do maintenance/repairs on the main engine or because of a shaft seal
> failure.  The emergency shaft seal would be ruptured if the shaft was
> allowed to spin.
>
> As for our boats with featuring/folding props you have to stop the shaft
> in order to allow the prop to feather/fold.  As others have mentioned you
> may have to shift into reverse to feather the prop.  Staying in reverse
> ensures that the prop doesn't "re-feather" and start spinning again.
> Pretty unlikely.  I occasionally forget to shift into neutral when
> starting... Oops!
>
> Josh Muckley
> S/V Sea Hawk
> 1989 C&C 37+
> Solomons, MD
>
> On Jun 8, 2016 9:48 AM, "Tom Buscaglia via CnC-List" <
> cnc-list@cnc-list.com> wrote:
>
> Aside from drag, I don't see what harm having it is neutral could do to
> the mechanical systems.  That said, if I recall correctly, the MarTec prop
> folks suggest putting it in reverse temporarily to rotate the prop blades
> into a neutral position...but that could just be something I imagined.
>
> Tom Buscaglia
> S/V Alera
> 1990 C&C 37+/40
> Vashon WA
> P 206.463.9200
>
>
> > On Jun 8, 2016, at 9:06 AM, cnc-list-requ...@cnc-list.com wrote:
> >
> > Message: 6
> > Date: Wed, 8 Jun 2016 09:05:42 -0400
> > From: David Knecht 
> > To: CnC CnC discussion list 
> > Subject: Re: Stus-List Transmission in forward or reverse while
> >sailing?
> > Message-ID: 
> > Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"
> >
> > Mine recommends reverse but also says the transmission will be damaged
> if left in forward.  Not sure why.  Dave
> >
> >> On Jun 8, 2016, at 7:16 AM, Gary Russell via CnC-List <
> cnc-list@cnc-list.com> wrote:
> >>
> >>
> >> The answer may depend on what make of transmission you have, but my
> Hurth transmission recommends reverse.  If your prop is spinning in
> forward, I would suggest that is not good.  I would recommend reverse.
> Some transmission, I'm told, have the oil pump on the input shaft, so there
> is no lubrication when the engine is stopped.  That's one reason you want
> to make sure the prop is not free-wheeling.  The other reason, of course,
> is drag.
> >>
> >> Gary
> >> S/V Kaylarah
> >> '90 C&C 37+
> >> East Greenwich, RI, USA
> >>
> >>
> >> ~~~_/)~~
>
>
> ___
>
> This list is supported by the generous donations of our members. If you
> like what we do, please help us pay for our costs by donating. All
> Contributions are greatly appreciated!
>
>
> ___
>
> This list is supported by the generous donations of our members. If you
> like what we do, please help us pay for our costs by donating. All
> Contributions are greatly appreciated!
>
>
>
> ___
>
> This list is supported by the generous donations of our members. If you
> like what we do, please help us pay for our costs by donating. All
> Contributions are greatly appreciated!
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Re: Stus-List (no subject)

[Gary Russell via CnC-List]

Thank you Josh.  That makes sense.
Gary

~~~_/)~~


On Wed, Jun 8, 2016 at 2:20 PM, Josh Muckley via CnC-List <
cnc-list@cnc-list.com> wrote:

> Gary,
>
> I believe the list has addressed this before but I'll throw it out there
> again.
>
> A freewheeling prop has less resistance than a fixed one.  There are a few
> assumptions being make in that statement.
> *Fixed blade prop
> *No shaft driven generator/alternator.
>
> The navy does it regularly.  As a throttleman onboard an aircraft carrier
> with 4 shafts, I can tell you, a trailing shaft always required less
> compensation than a fixed shaft.  The only reason we ever stopped the shaft
> was to do maintenance/repairs on the main engine or because of a shaft seal
> failure.  The emergency shaft seal would be ruptured if the shaft was
> allowed to spin.
>
> As for our boats with featuring/folding props you have to stop the shaft
> in order to allow the prop to feather/fold.  As others have mentioned you
> may have to shift into reverse to feather the prop.  Staying in reverse
> ensures that the prop doesn't "re-feather" and start spinning again.
> Pretty unlikely.  I occasionally forget to shift into neutral when
> starting... Oops!
>
> Josh Muckley
> S/V Sea Hawk
> 1989 C&C 37+
> Solomons, MD
> On Jun 8, 2016 9:48 AM, "Tom Buscaglia via CnC-List" <
> cnc-list@cnc-list.com> wrote:
>
>> Aside from drag, I don't see what harm having it is neutral could do to
>> the mechanical systems.  That said, if I recall correctly, the MarTec prop
>> folks suggest putting it in reverse temporarily to rotate the prop blades
>> into a neutral position...but that could just be something I imagined.
>>
>> Tom Buscaglia
>> S/V Alera
>> 1990 C&C 37+/40
>> Vashon WA
>> P 206.463.9200
>>
>>
>> > On Jun 8, 2016, at 9:06 AM, cnc-list-requ...@cnc-list.com wrote:
>> >
>> > Message: 6
>> > Date: Wed, 8 Jun 2016 09:05:42 -0400
>> > From: David Knecht 
>> > To: CnC CnC discussion list 
>> > Subject: Re: Stus-List Transmission in forward or reverse while
>> >sailing?
>> > Message-ID: 
>> > Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"
>> >
>> > Mine recommends reverse but also says the transmission will be damaged
>> if left in forward.  Not sure why.  Dave
>> >
>> >> On Jun 8, 2016, at 7:16 AM, Gary Russell via CnC-List <
>> cnc-list@cnc-list.com> wrote:
>> >>
>> >>
>> >> The answer may depend on what make of transmission you have, but my
>> Hurth transmission recommends reverse.  If your prop is spinning in
>> forward, I would suggest that is not good.  I would recommend reverse.
>> Some transmission, I'm told, have the oil pump on the input shaft, so there
>> is no lubrication when the engine is stopped.  That's one reason you want
>> to make sure the prop is not free-wheeling.  The other reason, of course,
>> is drag.
>> >>
>> >> Gary
>> >> S/V Kaylarah
>> >> '90 C&C 37+
>> >> East Greenwich, RI, USA
>> >>
>> >>
>> >> ~~~_/)~~
>>
>>
>> ___
>>
>> This list is supported by the generous donations of our members. If you
>> like what we do, please help us pay for our costs by donating. All
>> Contributions are greatly appreciated!
>>
>
> ___
>
> This list is supported by the generous donations of our members. If you
> like what we do, please help us pay for our costs by donating. All
> Contributions are greatly appreciated!
>
>
___

This list is supported by the generous donations of our members. If you like 
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