Re: Stus-List Looking at C&C 37/40+ CB as next boat

[Josh Muckley via CnC-List]

I needed it when it became necessary to re-engineer the pickup tube for the
pump out.  The old one had become disconnected so despite thinking we had
evacuated the tank it was still about 80% full.

Josh Muckley
S/V Sea Hawk
1989 C&C 37+
Solomons, MD

On Dec 5, 2016 6:49 PM, "Doug Welch via CnC-List" 
wrote:

> And the reason you want a hole large enough to stick you hand in a holding
> tank is?
>
>
>
> On Monday, December 5, 2016 6:28 PM, Chuck S via CnC-List <
> cnc-list@cnc-list.com> wrote:
>
>
> A "hand hole" is an inspection hole with a cover large enough to get a
> hand through. A "manhole" is larger allowing a man to get through.
>
> On December 5, 2016 at 2:08 PM "Matthew L. Wolford via CnC-List" <
> cnc-list@cnc-list.com> wrote:
>
> Inspection plate???
>
> *From:* David via CnC-List 
> *Sent:* Monday, December 05, 2016 11:54 AM
> *To:* cnc-list@cnc-list.com
> *Cc:* David 
> *Subject:* Re: Stus-List Looking at C&C 37/40+ CB as next boat
>
> Errr...what is a "hand hole"?
>
>
>
> Sent from my Verizon 4G LTE smartphone
>
>
>  Original message 
> From: Josh Muckley via CnC-List 
> Date: 12/4/16 19:44 (GMT-05:00)
> To: cnc-list@cnc-list.com
> Cc: Josh Muckley 
> Subject: Re: Stus-List Looking at C&C 37/40+ CB as next boat
>
> My holding tank is plastic but the hand hole came loose and was a
> considerable pain in the ass to fix.  The forward water tank in mine is
> aluminum and the fuel tank is aluminum.  The back stay attachments are a
> place for detailed inspection.  You'll probably find that the steering
> cable idlers plate, directly under the pedestal, is probably badly rusted.
> It should be one of the first safety repairs.  The engine mounts may be
> soft and in need of replacement too.
>
> Josh Muckley
> S/V Sea Hawk
> 1989 C&C 37+
> Solomons, MD
>
> On Sun, Dec 4, 2016, 6:28 PM Gary Russell via CnC-List <
> cnc-list@cnc-list.com> wrote:
>
> Hi Mark,
>  Wow!  We have a lot in common.  Last year I sold my 35 Mk II
> (Expresso) and bought my 37/40+.  I loved Expresso, but the 37+ is better
> in almost every way.  The performance difference is breathtaking.  The boat
> I bought was in pretty bad shape and I spent almost a year refitting her.
> We renamed her "Kaylarah" after my grand daughters Kayla and Sarah.  The
> side windows are chronic problems on these boats, but almost all of them
> have that problem, so you will probably have to deal with that.  If you
> are, at all handy, they are not that hard to fix.  I can give you a lot of
> advice in that area.  The holding tank is made out of aluminum, and the
> tank was installed before the interior was installed.  Repairing/replacing
> the tank is a big deal.  Of course, you should watch out for the usual
> punky cored deck.  Otherwise she is a good boat with minimal problems.
> Text me if you need specific advice.  There are a lot of 37/40+ owners on
> this forum and they have a lot of helpful knowledge.
>
> Good luck,
> Gary
> S/V Kaylarah
> '90 C&C 37+
> East Greenwich, RI, USA
>
> ~~~_/)~~
>
>
> On Sun, Dec 4, 2016 at 6:48 PM, Mark via CnC-List 
> wrote:
>
> I am looking at a 1993 C&C 37/40+ CB model as our next boat. My first big
> boat was a 1974 C&C 27 which I had to 12 years, then upgraded to a 1975 C&C
> 35 MKII in 1992. After 25 years (come February) on the best boat ever
> built, I'm looking to upgrade to something a little more cruising, but with
> C&C performance. Given that requirement, it seems reasonable that I should
> stick with C&C.
>
> I've read through the all the email lists concerning the C&C 37+ and most
> everything looks positive. The boat I'm looking at is listed in Marco
> Island and immediately needs hatches and windows. I looked at it over the
> Thanksgiving holidays, and other that those issues, it seems quite basic;
> doesn't appear to have been raced hard (i.e. no spin hardware & Dacron
> sails) and not much in cruising upgrades (i.e. needs windless, davits,
> etc.). Could be a good platform to start with.
>
> For you C&C 37/40+ owners out there, is there any thing I should pay close
> attention to other than engine condition & standing rigging condition that
> could bite me.
>
> Thanks,
> Mark Baldridge
> ~~_/)
> '75 C&C35 MKII "The Edge"
> Surf City, NC
>
>
> ___
>
> This list is supported by the generous donations of our members. If you
> wish to make a contribution to offset our costs, please go to:
> https://www.paypal.me/stumurray
>
> All Contributions are greatly appreciated!
>
>
> ___
>
> This list is supported by the generous donations of our members. If you
> wish to make a contribution to offset our costs, please go to:
> https://www.paypal.me/stumurray
>
> All Contributions are greatly appreciated!
>
> --
> ___
>
> This list is supported by the generous donations of our members. If you
> wish to ma

Re: Stus-List weeping hull

[jacob fuerst via CnC-List]

Update...

I really appreciate your replies and insights. I'm a new sailor and this is
my first boat!

Took the boat to the yard. Before they pulled her they took off the the aft
most keel bolt nut (it was nearest the stringer that was showing greatest
weeping) and water start seeping.

Pulled the boat but it was right before Thanksgiving and they all took off
for 4 days. I'm a brand new liveaboard so a tree house was my new home.

There was clearly a crack in the seam of sealant between keel and hull for
about 10" from aft and forward. They cut that sealant out.. Drilled a small
hole at an angle to that last bolt from the top. All glass. They also cut
very small triangle of glass near the bolt and decided there were areas of
air in the glass amongst the stringers and thusly the keel boat needed a
much larger washer for support. They made 1/4"x 3"x3" plate as a washer.
They also pumped grease thru their little hole to displace any moisture.
The obvious and most accessible of the 3 leaks water they ground down
smooth and bilge painted. They filled the gap they exposed between keel and
hull with 5200. Bigger gap than I imagined there would be. Allegedly
slapped some bottom paint over that but they had the boat back in the water
before I got back from work.

Spent several hours trying to sail in light wind and motoring to get home.
Checked the bilge and yup...problem not solved. Like I said, they painted
over 1 of 3 leaking spots. The other 2 are still leaking...

Jacob Fuerst
'78 C&C 36
303-520-4669

On Nov 18, 2016 11:53 AM, "jacob fuerst via CnC-List" 
wrote:

> In my '78 C&C 36 I am seeing a couple spots where salt water is weeping in
> through the hull near the bilge area, appearing from seemingly nowhere as
> if from a spring. One point is about 3' back from the mast and 18" to the
> side. The other is closer to the keel but they both are on the edges of
> hull stringers.
>
> I've had a few people look at it and I've gotten everything from an
> estimate to rebed the keel (though the bolts seem fine and I had the boat
> out in May), to cutting apart the fiberglass to locate where the water is
> running from, to don't worry about it.
>
> Has anyone had this happen before? How big of a deal is it? The amount of
> water is minimal but I believe they were coring the hulls. Does anyone know
> the exact cross sectional thickness of the fiberglass? Were just the sides
> of the boat cored or did they do the entire hull? How did that work where
> the keel meets? Is it possible that a through-hull is leaking and water is
> running up to several feet along the core and popping up somewhere random
> where it has found a weak spot in the fiberglass?
>
> --
> *Jacob Fuerst*
> *303-520-4669 <(303)%20520-4669>*
>
> ___
>
> This list is supported by the generous donations of our members. If you
> wish to make a contribution to offset our costs, please go to:
> https://www.paypal.me/stumurray
>
> All Contributions are greatly appreciated!
>
>
___

This list is supported by the generous donations of our members. If you wish to 
make a contribution to offset our costs, please go to:  
https://www.paypal.me/stumurray

All Contributions are greatly appreciated!

Re: Stus-List Epoxy Putty

[Dennis C. via CnC-List]

Also keep a couple of toilet bowl wax rings on board for plugging that odd
shaped hole.

Anybody tried Forespar's Sta-Plug?

http://www.forespar.com/products/sta-plug.shtml

Dennis C.

On Mon, Dec 5, 2016 at 5:58 PM, Dr. Mark Bodnar via CnC-List <
cnc-list@cnc-list.com> wrote:

>
> Anyone use the epoxy putty for their boats? 2 part putty that you mix
> together
>
> https://www.amazon.ca/gp/product/B008DYMZCG/ref=ox_sc_act_
> title_1?smid=A3DWYIK6Y9EEQB&psc=1
>
> I was talking to a friend the other day - he was telling me how he wrapped
> a line around his prop and jammed his strut up into the hull.  He
> discovered a small fountain of water coming in.
>
> He had some of the epoxy putty - squeezed it together to start the
> reaction and mashed it in around the damaged area  - he then held it in
> place with his hands as it warmed up and cured.  90% of the water stopped -
> so he mixed up a bit more and was able to stop all the incoming water.
> Confident enough that he left the boat on a mooring overnight and had it
> hauled a day or 2 later for repairs.
>
> I'm thinking I should have a couple tubes of this on the boat for
> emergencies.
>
> Mark
>
>
> BTW - Jamie at Shining Waters Marine did his repair - my friend had
> nothing but great things to say about the workmanship -- I believe Jamie
> is  C+C lister Mike Amirault's son.
>
>
> --
>
>
>
> There is no cure for birth and death save to enjoy the interval.
>   - George Santayana
>
>
> ___
>
> This list is supported by the generous donations of our members. If you
> wish to make a contribution to offset our costs, please go to:
> https://www.paypal.me/stumurray
>
> All Contributions are greatly appreciated!
>
___

This list is supported by the generous donations of our members. If you wish to 
make a contribution to offset our costs, please go to:  
https://www.paypal.me/stumurray

All Contributions are greatly appreciated!

Re: Stus-List manhole properly explain

[David Lenehan via CnC-List]

Russ is, indeed, a very funny fellow but he'd be a lot funnier if he was
stuck in one of those manholes

On 6 December 2016 at 14:04, John McKay via CnC-List 
wrote:

> I had a good laugh at that one!
>
>
>
> On Monday, December 5, 2016 9:55 PM, Russ & Melody via CnC-List <
> cnc-list@cnc-list.com> wrote:
>
>
>
> Hi Chuck,
>
> I'm glad you took this on the clarify manhole. I don't want guys at the
> boatyard to be getting the wrong idea. :)
>
>  Thanks again, Russ
>  Sweet 35 mk-1
>  Lunatic Fringe, B.C.
>
>
>
> At 03:25 PM 05/12/2016, you wrote:
>
> A "hand hole" is an inspection hole with a cover large enough to get a
> hand through. A "manhole" is larger allowing a man to get through.
>
> On December 5, 2016 at 2:08 PM "Matthew L. Wolford via CnC-List" <
> cnc-list@cnc-list.com> wrote:
>
> Inspection plate???
>
> *From:* David via CnC-List 
> *Sent:* Monday, December 05, 2016 11:54 AM
> *To:* cnc-list@cnc-list.com
> *Cc:* David 
> *Subject:* Re: Stus-List Looking at C&C 37/40+ CB as next boat
>
> Errr...what is a "hand hole"?
>
>
>
> Sent from my Verizon 4G LTE smartphone
>
>
>  Original message 
> From: Josh Muckley via CnC-List 
> Date: 12/4/16 19:44 (GMT-05:00)
> To: cnc-list@cnc-list.com
> Cc: Josh Muckley 
> Subject: Re: Stus-List Looking at C&C 37/40+ CB as next boat
>
> My holding tank is plastic but the hand hole came loose and was a
> considerable pain in the ass to fix.  The forward water tank in mine is
> aluminum and the fuel tank is aluminum.  The back stay attachments are a
> place for detailed inspection.  You'll probably find that the steering
> cable idlers plate, directly under the pedestal, is probably badly rusted.
> It should be one of the first safety repairs.  The engine mounts may be
> soft and in need of replacement too.
>
> Josh Muckley
> S/V Sea Hawk
> 1989 C&C 37+
> Solomons, MD
>
> On Sun, Dec 4, 2016, 6:28 PM Gary Russell via CnC-List <
> cnc-list@cnc-list.com> wrote:
> Hi Mark,
>  Wow!  We have a lot in common.  Last year I sold my 35 Mk II
> (Expresso) and bought my 37/40+.  I loved Expresso, but the 37+ is better
> in almost every way.  The performance difference is breathtaking.  The boat
> I bought was in pretty bad shape and I spent almost a year refitting her.
> We renamed her "Kaylarah" after my grand daughters Kayla and Sarah.  The
> side windows are chronic problems on these boats, but almost all of them
> have that problem, so you will probably have to deal with that.  If you
> are, at all handy, they are not that hard to fix.  I can give you a lot of
> advice in that area.  The holding tank is made out of aluminum, and the
> tank was installed before the interior was installed.  Repairing/replacing
> the tank is a big deal.  Of course, you should watch out for the usual
> punky cored deck.  Otherwise she is a good boat with minimal problems.
> Text me if you need specific advice.  There are a lot of 37/40+ owners on
> this forum and they have a lot of helpful knowledge.
>
> Good luck,
> Gary
> S/V Kaylarah
> '90 C&C 37+
> East Greenwich, RI, USA
>
> ~~~_ /)~~
>
>
> On Sun, Dec 4, 2016 at 6:48 PM, Mark via CnC-List 
> wrote:
> I am looking at a 1993 C&C 37/40+ CB model as our next boat. My first big
> boat was a 1974 C&C 27 which I had to 12 years, then upgraded to a 1975 C&C
> 35 MKII in 1992. After 25 years (come February) on the best boat ever
> built, I'm looking to upgrade to something a little more cruising, but with
> C&C performance. Given that requirement, it seems reasonable that I should
> stick with C&C.
>
> I've read through the all the email lists concerning the C&C 37+ and most
> everything looks positive. The boat I'm looking at is listed in Marco
> Island and immediately needs hatches and windows. I looked at it over the
> Thanksgiving holidays, and other that those issues, it seems quite basic;
> doesn't appear to have been raced hard (i.e. no spin hardware & Dacron
> sails) and not much in cruising upgrades (i.e. needs windless, davits,
> etc.). Could be a good platform to start with.
>
> For you C&C 37/40+ owners out there, is there any thing I should pay close
> attention to other than engine condition & standing rigging condition that
> could bite me.
>
> Thanks,
> Mark Baldridge
> ~~_/)
> '75 C&C35 MKII "The Edge"
> Surf City, NC
>
>
> ___
>
> This list is supported by the generous donations of our members. If you
> wish to make a contribution to offset our costs, please go to:
> https://www.paypal.me/stumurray
>
> All Contributions are greatly appreciated!
>
>
> ___
>
> This list is supported by the generous donations of our members. If you
> wish to make a contribution to offset our costs, please go to:
> https://www.paypal.me/stumurray
>
> All Contributions are greatly appreciated!
>
> --
> ___
>
> This list i

Re: Stus-List manhole properly explain

[John McKay via CnC-List]

I had a good laugh at that one!
 

On Monday, December 5, 2016 9:55 PM, Russ & Melody via CnC-List 
 wrote:
 

 
Hi Chuck, 

I'm glad you took this on the clarify manhole. I don't want guys at theboatyard 
to be getting the wrong idea. :)

  Thanksagain, Russ
  Sweet 35mk-1
  LunaticFringe, B.C.



At 03:25 PM 05/12/2016, you wrote:

A "hand hole" is aninspection hole with a cover large enough to get a hand 
through. A"manhole" is larger allowing a man to get through.


On December 5, 2016 at 2:08 PM"Matthew L. Wolford via CnC-List" 
wrote:

Inspection plate???
 
From: David viaCnC-List 
Sent: Monday, December 05, 2016 11:54 AM
To:cnc-list@cnc-list.com 
Cc: David 
Subject: Re: Stus-List Looking at C&C 37/40+ CB as nextboat
 
Errr...what is a "hand hole"?
 
 
 
Sent from my Verizon 4G LTE smartphone


 Original message 
From: Josh Muckley via CnC-List  
Date: 12/4/16 19:44 (GMT-05:00) 
To: cnc-list@cnc-list.com 
Cc: Josh Muckley  
Subject: Re: Stus-List Looking at C&C 37/40+ CB as next boat

My holding tank is plastic but the hand hole came loose and was aconsiderable 
pain in the ass to fix.  The forward water tank in mineis aluminum and the fuel 
tank is aluminum.  The back stayattachments are a place for detailed 
inspection.  You'll probablyfind that the steering cable idlers plate, directly 
under the pedestal,is probably badly rusted.  It should be one of the first 
safetyrepairs.  The engine mounts may be soft and in need of replacementtoo. 
 
Josh Muckley
S/V Sea Hawk
1989 C&C 37+
Solomons, MD

On Sun, Dec 4, 2016, 6:28 PM Gary Russell via 
CnC-Listwrote:
   
  - Hi Mark,

  -  Wow!  We have a lot in common. Last year I sold my 35 Mk II 
(Expresso) and bought my 37/40+.  Iloved Expresso, but the 37+ is better in 
almost every way.  Theperformance difference is breathtaking.  The boat I 
bought was inpretty bad shape and I spent almost a year refitting her.  
Werenamed her "Kaylarah" after my grand daughters Kayla andSarah.  The side 
windows are chronic problems on these boats, butalmost all of them have that 
problem, so you will probably have to dealwith that.  If you are, at all handy, 
they are not that hard tofix.  I can give you a lot of advice in that area.  
The holdingtank is made out of aluminum, and the tank was installed before 
theinterior was installed.  Repairing/replacing the tank is a bigdeal.  Of 
course, you should watch out for the usual punky coreddeck.  Otherwise she is a 
good boat with minimal problems. Text me if you need specific advice.  There 
are a lot of 37/40+owners on this forum and they have a lot of helpful 
knowledge.   

  -     

  - Good luck,   

  - Gary   

  - S/V Kaylarah   

  - '90 C&C 37+   

  - East Greenwich, RI, USA   

  -     

  - ~~~_/)~~   
   

  -     

  - On Sun, Dec 4, 2016 at 6:48 PM, Mark via 
CnC-Listwrote:   
  
 - I am looking at a 1993 C&C 37/40+ CB model as our next boat. Myfirst 
big boat was a 1974 C&C 27 which I had to 12 years, thenupgraded to a 1975 C&C 
35 MKII in 1992. After 25 years (comeFebruary) on the best boat ever built, I'm 
looking to upgrade tosomething a little more cruising, but with C&C 
performance. Giventhat requirement, it seems reasonable that I should stick 
withC&C.  
  

 - I've read through the all the email lists concerning the C&C 37+and 
most everything looks positive. The boat I'm looking at is listed inMarco 
Island and immediately needs hatches and windows. I looked at itover the 
Thanksgiving holidays, and other that those issues, it seemsquite basic; 
doesn't appear to have been raced hard (i.e. no spinhardware & Dacron sails) 
and not much in cruising upgrades (i.e.needs windless, davits, etc.). Could be 
a good platform to startwith.  
  

 - For you C&C 37/40+ owners out there, is there any thing I shouldpay 
close attention to other than engine condition & standing riggingcondition that 
could bite me.  
  

 - Thanks,  

 - Mark Baldridge  

 - ~~_/)  

 - '75 C&C35 MKII "The Edge"  

 - Surf City, NC  
  
  

 - ___  
  

 - This list is supported by the generous donations of our members. 
Ifyou wish to make a contribution to offset our costs, please go to: 
https://www.paypal.me/stumurray  
  

 - All Contributions are greatly appreciated!  
  


  -     

  - ___   
   

  - This list is supported by the generous donations of our members. Ifyou 
wish to make a contribution to offset our costs, please go to: 
https://www.paypal.me/stumurray   
   

  - All Contributions are greatly appreciated!   
   

___

This list is supported by the generous donations o

Re: Stus-List manhole properly explain

[Russ & Melody via CnC-List]

Hi Chuck,

I'm glad you took this on the clarify manhole. I don't want guys at 
the boatyard to be getting the wrong idea. :)


Thanks again, Russ
Sweet 35 mk-1
Lunatic Fringe, B.C.



At 03:25 PM 05/12/2016, you wrote:
A "hand hole" is an inspection hole with a cover large enough to get 
a hand through. A "manhole" is larger allowing a man to get through.


On December 5, 2016 at 2:08 PM "Matthew L. Wolford via CnC-List" 
 wrote:


Inspection plate???

From: David via CnC-List
Sent: Monday, December 05, 2016 11:54 AM
To: cnc-list@cnc-list.com
Cc: David
Subject: Re: Stus-List Looking at C&C 37/40+ CB as next boat

Errr...what is a "hand hole"?



Sent from my Verizon 4G LTE smartphone


 Original message 
From: Josh Muckley via CnC-List 
Date: 12/4/16 19:44 (GMT-05:00)
To: cnc-list@cnc-list.com
Cc: Josh Muckley 
Subject: Re: Stus-List Looking at C&C 37/40+ CB as next boat

My holding tank is plastic but the hand hole came loose and was a 
considerable pain in the ass to fix.  The forward water tank in 
mine is aluminum and the fuel tank is aluminum.  The back stay 
attachments are a place for detailed inspection.  You'll probably 
find that the steering cable idlers plate, directly under the 
pedestal, is probably badly rusted.  It should be one of the first 
safety repairs.  The engine mounts may be soft and in need of replacement too.


Josh Muckley
S/V Sea Hawk
1989 C&C 37+
Solomons, MD

On Sun, Dec 4, 2016, 6:28 PM Gary Russell via CnC-List 
<cnc-list@cnc-list.com> wrote:

Hi Mark,
 Wow!  We have a lot in common.  Last year I sold my 35 Mk II 
(Expresso) and bought my 37/40+.  I loved Expresso, but the 37+ is 
better in almost every way.  The performance difference is 
breathtaking.  The boat I bought was in pretty bad shape and I 
spent almost a year refitting her.  We renamed her "Kaylarah" 
after my grand daughters Kayla and Sarah.  The side windows are 
chronic problems on these boats, but almost all of them have that 
problem, so you will probably have to deal with that.  If you are, 
at all handy, they are not that hard to fix.  I can give you a lot 
of advice in that area.  The holding tank is made out of aluminum, 
and the tank was installed before the interior was 
installed.  Repairing/replacing the tank is a big deal.  Of 
course, you should watch out for the usual punky cored 
deck.  Otherwise she is a good boat with minimal problems.  Text 
me if you need specific advice.  There are a lot of 37/40+ owners 
on this forum and they have a lot of helpful knowledge.


Good luck,
Gary
S/V Kaylarah
'90 C&C 37+
East Greenwich, RI, USA

~~~_/)~~


On Sun, Dec 4, 2016 at 6:48 PM, Mark via CnC-List 
<cnc-list@cnc-list.com> wrote:
I am looking at a 1993 C&C 37/40+ CB model as our next boat. My 
first big boat was a 1974 C&C 27 which I had to 12 years, then 
upgraded to a 1975 C&C 35 MKII in 1992. After 25 years (come 
February) on the best boat ever built, I'm looking to upgrade to 
something a little more cruising, but with C&C performance. Given 
that requirement, it seems reasonable that I should stick with C&C.


I've read through the all the email lists concerning the C&C 37+ 
and most everything looks positive. The boat I'm looking at is 
listed in Marco Island and immediately needs hatches and windows. I 
looked at it over the Thanksgiving holidays, and other that those 
issues, it seems quite basic; doesn't appear to have been raced 
hard (i.e. no spin hardware & Dacron sails) and not much in 
cruising upgrades (i.e. needs windless, davits, etc.). Could be a 
good platform to start with.


For you C&C 37/40+ owners out there, is there any thing I should 
pay close attention to other than engine condition & standing 
rigging condition that could bite me.


Thanks,
Mark Baldridge
~~_/)
'75 C&C35 MKII "The Edge"
Surf City, NC


___

This list is supported by the generous donations of our members. If 
you wish to make a contribution to offset our costs, please go 
to:  https://www.paypal.me/stumurray


All Contributions are greatly appreciated!


___

This list is supported by the generous donations of our members. If 
you wish to make a contribution to offset our costs, please go 
to:  https://www.paypal.me/stumurray


All Contributions are greatly appreciated!


--
___

This list is supported by the generous donations of our members. If 
you wish to make a contribution to offset our costs, please go 
to:  https://www.paypal.me/stumurray


All Contributions are greatly appreciated!




___

This list is supported by the generous don

Re: Stus-List weeping hull

[John and Maryann Read via CnC-List]

Our 34 has a similar issue.  A weeping of a minor amount of water exiting the 
gel coat in the bilge about 4 inches aft of the mast step and one inch above 
the bilge floor.  Hull is solid except for a cored area about 4 feet from 
centerline.  Pending further examination and tests, most likely cause is the 
stringers used to reinforce the sump area for the keel loads.  Seems they can 
separate from the hull interior, allowing bilge water to enter when the boat is 
heeled, and eventually seep through when the boast is upright into the bilge.  
My thought is our issue may be related to some groundings of the past, but need 
further evaluation when things warm up in the spring.  Overall, not a 
structural and more of a nuisance than anything else.  To be continued…..

 

 

John and Maryann

Legacy III

1982 C&C 34

Noank, CT

 

From: CnC-List [mailto:cnc-list-boun...@cnc-list.com] On Behalf Of Mike Brannon 
via CnC-List
Sent: Monday, December 05, 2016 4:27 PM
To: cnc-list@cnc-list.com
Cc: Mike Brannon
Subject: Re: Stus-List weeping hull

 

Jacob,  the C&C 36 hull is cored throughout.   The area around the keel stub is 
solid.   The area to which you refer is most likely cored.

 

Mike Brannon

Virginia Lee  93295

1978 C&C 36 CB 

Sent from my iPad Mini


On Nov 18, 2016, at 14:52, jacob fuerst via CnC-List  
wrote:

In my '78 C&C 36 I am seeing a couple spots where salt water is weeping in 
through the hull near the bilge area, appearing from seemingly nowhere as if 
from a spring. One point is about 3' back from the mast and 18" to the side. 
The other is closer to the keel but they both are on the edges of hull 
stringers. 

 

I've had a few people look at it and I've gotten everything from an estimate to 
rebed the keel (though the bolts seem fine and I had the boat out in May), to 
cutting apart the fiberglass to locate where the water is running from, to 
don't worry about it.

 

Has anyone had this happen before? How big of a deal is it? The amount of water 
is minimal but I believe they were coring the hulls. Does anyone know the exact 
cross sectional thickness of the fiberglass? Were just the sides of the boat 
cored or did they do the entire hull? How did that work where the keel meets? 
Is it possible that a through-hull is leaking and water is running up to 
several feet along the core and popping up somewhere random where it has found 
a weak spot in the fiberglass? 

 

-- 

Jacob Fuerst

303-520-4669

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Re: Stus-List Spinnaker pole handling

[David Kaseler via CnC-List]

Turns out, in my view, the success of spinnaker set, gybe and take down is 
controlled at the helm. When the boat is correctly driven through the maneuver 
the job on the foredeck is much more manageable. Please don't tell my wife the 
skipper.
Dave. K
SLY 1975 C&C 33

Sent from my iPad

> On Dec 5, 2016, at 8:33 AM, Michael Brown via CnC-List 
>  wrote:
> 
> On Windburn we do end-for-end due to carrying an oversized pole.
> The J is 13.5' and the the pole is 14.4'. We normally do not have guys.
> 
> If there is difficulty keeping the chute stable and helping out foredeck
> by steering the chute try centering the main for a moment just as they
> are about to snap in the mast end.
> 
> Further to what Dennis is advising I find that losing the sail area of the
> spinnaker due to it not drawing well is slower than losing the sail area
> of the main for 5 - 10 seconds during the gybe. Note that the symmetrical
> spinnaker is 850 sq ft vs 225 sq ft for the main on Windburn.
> 
> In very light winds when gybing from a hot angle centering the main
> also helps to keep the spinnaker from collapsing and wrapping the
> forestay.
> 
> Michael Brown
> Windburn
> C&C 30-1
> 
> From: "Dennis C."  
> 
> Charlie, 
> 
> While many consider 35-36 feet the upper limit for end for end gybes, we 
> use end for end with an aluminum pole on Touche' (35-1).  With the right 
> technique, you shouldn't have issues. 
> 
> I've been doing foredeck since the mid 90's.  I think the key to a good, 
> and safe, end for end gybe is the driver and the way the driver and crew 
> think about the gybe. 
> 
> Many sailors think a chute gybe is moving the chute across the boat.  I 
> don't subscribe to that philosophy. 
> 
> A better way to think about gybing is you're moving the BOAT under the 
> chute.  Doesn't sound like much of a difference but it really is.  The idea 
> is to keep the chute flying and drawing while the driver gradually steers 
> the boat to the new course.  If the chute continues to fly effectively, 
> connecting the pole to the new sheet and then the mast will be nearly 
> effortless. 
> 
> Sit down with your crew and talk about gybing with this philosophy.  It may 
> be the difference you need. 
> 
> Dennis C. 
> Touche' 35-1 #83 
> Mandeville, LA 
> 
> On Sun, Dec 4, 2016 at 8:20 PM, Charlie Nelson via CnC-List < 
> cnc-list@cnc-list.com> wrote: 
> 
> > We use a carbon fiber pole on Water Phantom, C&C 36 XL/kcb, for our 
> > kite(s) and have 'oscillated' back and forth between doing dip-pole jibes 
> > or end-for-end. The pole is a relatively light Forte carbon fiber pole with 
> > snap-in fitting on both ends. 
> > 
> > We always use lazy sheets and guys. 
> > 
> > As the driver, I don't have strong feelings about which method we use or 
> > should use. 
> > 
> > However, especially in breezes above 8 knots, it looks to me like our 
> > jibes are taking too much time when we end for end the pole. Of course I 
> > share some of the blame if I can't keep the boat headed downwind during the 
> > jibe but even when I seem to manage keeping her downwind, the mast man 
> > struggles to get the pole into the fitting and made--taking valuable time 
> > and giving a lot of downwind separation to our competitors. Of course, it 
> > also puts him at risk for the pole smashing him about the head and 
> > shoulders if the pressure builds on the kite before he has it made. 
> > 
> > I am convinced that my boat can sail to her rating upwind in breezes above 
> > about 8 knots--less not so much!--but downwind we often waste what seems 
> > like too much time on jibing. I say this with confidence since when we 
> > raced non-spin with a whisker pole, until we learned how to set the pole 
> > downwind, we would beat every boat to the windward mark and have most of 
> > them pass us on the way downwind. Once we got the mechanics straightened 
> > out, no one passed us downwind even if a few gained on us. 
> > 
> > OTOH, if we dip pole, the bow person often gets the new guy in the pole in 
> > the incorrect position (with his back to the bow), so there is certainly a 
> > need for more practice. 
> > 
> > My question for the list is what method should we invest practice time in 
> > so that jibing can be as routine as tacking. It seems that at 36 ft Water 
> > Phantom and a fiber pole could go either way but I would prefer to always 
> > use the same method so that we have a chance to get quick at it. 
> > 
> > Charlie Nelson 
> > Water Phantom 
> > C&C 36 XL/kcb 
> > 
> > cenel...@aol.com 
> ___
> 
> This list is supported by the generous donations of our members. If you wish 
> to make a contribution to offset our costs, please go to:  
> https://www.paypal.me/stumurray
> 
> All Contributions are greatly appreciated!
___

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make a contribution to offset our costs, please g

Re: Stus-List Looking at C&C 37/40+ CB as next boat

[John and Maryann Read via CnC-List]

I find it is very handy at fall haul out to thoroughly rinse the tank using a 
hose with nozzle attached.  This is done of course after the normal pump out.  
Just stick in the hose with pressure spray running, spray the inside and rinse 
out the inside of the tank.  Then pump out again.  Ensures tank is relatively 
clean and has only fresh water left in it.  Then I pump in antifreeze through 
the head and all is well for the winter.

 

John and Maryann

Legacy III

1982 C&C 34

Noank, CT

 

From: CnC-List [mailto:cnc-list-boun...@cnc-list.com] On Behalf Of Doug Welch 
via CnC-List
Sent: Monday, December 05, 2016 7:48 PM
To: cnc-list@cnc-list.com
Cc: doug.we...@rogers.com
Subject: Re: Stus-List Looking at C&C 37/40+ CB as next boat

 

And the reason you want a hole large enough to stick you hand in a holding tank 
is?

 

 

On Monday, December 5, 2016 6:28 PM, Chuck S via CnC-List 
 wrote:

 

A "hand hole" is an inspection hole with a cover large enough to get a hand 
through. A "manhole" is larger allowing a man to get through.

On December 5, 2016 at 2:08 PM "Matthew L. Wolford via CnC-List" 
 wrote:

Inspection plate???

 

From: David via CnC-List   

Sent: Monday, December 05, 2016 11:54 AM

To: cnc-list@cnc-list.com 

Cc: David   

Subject: Re: Stus-List Looking at C&C 37/40+ CB as next boat

 

Errr...what is a "hand hole"?

 

 

 

Sent from my Verizon 4G LTE smartphone



 Original message 
From: Josh Muckley via CnC-List  
Date: 12/4/16 19:44 (GMT-05:00) 
To: cnc-list@cnc-list.com 
Cc: Josh Muckley  
Subject: Re: Stus-List Looking at C&C 37/40+ CB as next boat 

My holding tank is plastic but the hand hole came loose and was a considerable 
pain in the ass to fix.  The forward water tank in mine is aluminum and the 
fuel tank is aluminum.  The back stay attachments are a place for detailed 
inspection.  You'll probably find that the steering cable idlers plate, 
directly under the pedestal, is probably badly rusted.  It should be one of the 
first safety repairs.  The engine mounts may be soft and in need of replacement 
too. 

 

Josh Muckley

S/V Sea Hawk

1989 C&C 37+

Solomons, MD

On Sun, Dec 4, 2016, 6:28 PM Gary Russell via CnC-List  
wrote:

Hi Mark, 

 Wow!  We have a lot in common.  Last year I sold my 35 Mk II (Expresso) 
and bought my 37/40+.  I loved Expresso, but the 37+ is better in almost every 
way.  The performance difference is breathtaking.  The boat I bought was in 
pretty bad shape and I spent almost a year refitting her.  We renamed her 
"Kaylarah" after my grand daughters Kayla and Sarah.  The side windows are 
chronic problems on these boats, but almost all of them have that problem, so 
you will probably have to deal with that.  If you are, at all handy, they are 
not that hard to fix.  I can give you a lot of advice in that area.  The 
holding tank is made out of aluminum, and the tank was installed before the 
interior was installed.  Repairing/replacing the tank is a big deal.  Of 
course, you should watch out for the usual punky cored deck.  Otherwise she is 
a good boat with minimal problems.  Text me if you need specific advice.  There 
are a lot of 37/40+ owners on this forum and they have a lot of helpful 
knowledge.

 

Good luck,

Gary

S/V Kaylarah

'90 C&C 37+

East Greenwich, RI, USA

 

~~~_/)~~

 

On Sun, Dec 4, 2016 at 6:48 PM, Mark via CnC-List  wrote:

I am looking at a 1993 C&C 37/40+ CB model as our next boat. My first big boat 
was a 1974 C&C 27 which I had to 12 years, then upgraded to a 1975 C&C 35 MKII 
in 1992. After 25 years (come February) on the best boat ever built, I'm 
looking to upgrade to something a little more cruising, but with C&C 
performance. Given that requirement, it seems reasonable that I should stick 
with C&C.

I've read through the all the email lists concerning the C&C 37+ and most 
everything looks positive. The boat I'm looking at is listed in Marco Island 
and immediately needs hatches and windows. I looked at it over the Thanksgiving 
holidays, and other that those issues, it seems quite basic; doesn't appear to 
have been raced hard (i.e. no spin hardware & Dacron sails) and not much in 
cruising upgrades (i.e. needs windless, davits, etc.). Could be a good platform 
to start with.

For you C&C 37/40+ owners out there, is there any thing I should pay close 
attention to other than engine condition & standing rigging condition that 
could bite me.

Thanks,
Mark Baldridge
~~_/)
'75 C&C35 MKII "The Edge"
Surf City, NC


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make a contribution to offset our costs, please go to:  
https://www.paypal.me/stumurray

All Contributions are greatly appreciated!

 

___

This list is supported by the generous donations of our members. If you wish to 
m

Re: Stus-List Epoxy Putty

[Josh Muckley via CnC-List]

I keep various tube on board.  I had a bleed screw that was slightly
stripped and managed to work it's way loose.  In fact it blew itself off.
I couldn't get it to stay tight enough without skipping a thread so I
removed the fitting, plugged the important ports with a paper towel,  and
then packed the bleed port with steel filled epoxy putty before
reinstalling the bleed screw.  I smoothed the epoxy to capture the the
screw head and let it cure for an hour while we waited on the hook.  An
hour later we we back in business.  Thinking that the proper thing to do
would be to replace the fitting, I did.  Then had the new bleed screw
strip/come loose!  I retrieved the epoxied fitting and reinstalled.  It is
there to this day.

Josh Muckley
S/V Sea Hawk
1989 C&C 37+
Solomons, MD

On Dec 5, 2016 5:58 PM, "Dr. Mark Bodnar via CnC-List" <
cnc-list@cnc-list.com> wrote:

>
> Anyone use the epoxy putty for their boats? 2 part putty that you mix
> together
>
> https://www.amazon.ca/gp/product/B008DYMZCG/ref=ox_sc_act_
> title_1?smid=A3DWYIK6Y9EEQB&psc=1
>
> I was talking to a friend the other day - he was telling me how he wrapped
> a line around his prop and jammed his strut up into the hull.  He
> discovered a small fountain of water coming in.
>
> He had some of the epoxy putty - squeezed it together to start the
> reaction and mashed it in around the damaged area  - he then held it in
> place with his hands as it warmed up and cured.  90% of the water stopped -
> so he mixed up a bit more and was able to stop all the incoming water.
> Confident enough that he left the boat on a mooring overnight and had it
> hauled a day or 2 later for repairs.
>
> I'm thinking I should have a couple tubes of this on the boat for
> emergencies.
>
> Mark
>
>
> BTW - Jamie at Shining Waters Marine did his repair - my friend had
> nothing but great things to say about the workmanship -- I believe Jamie
> is  C+C lister Mike Amirault's son.
>
>
> --
>
>
>
> There is no cure for birth and death save to enjoy the interval.
>   - George Santayana
>
>
> ___
>
> This list is supported by the generous donations of our members. If you
> wish to make a contribution to offset our costs, please go to:
> https://www.paypal.me/stumurray
>
> All Contributions are greatly appreciated!
>
___

This list is supported by the generous donations of our members. If you wish to 
make a contribution to offset our costs, please go to:  
https://www.paypal.me/stumurray

All Contributions are greatly appreciated!

Re: Stus-List Looking at C&C 37/40+ CB as next boat

[Doug Welch via CnC-List]

And the reason you want a hole large enough to stick you hand in a holding tank 
is?
 

On Monday, December 5, 2016 6:28 PM, Chuck S via CnC-List 
 wrote:
 

 A "hand hole" is an inspection hole with a cover large enough to get a hand 
through. A "manhole" is larger allowing a man to get through.


On December 5, 2016 at 2:08 PM "Matthew L. Wolford via CnC-List" 
 wrote:

Inspection plate??? From: David via CnC-List Sent: Monday, December 05, 2016 
11:54 AMTo: cnc-list@cnc-list.com Cc: David Subject: Re: Stus-List Looking at 
C&C 37/40+ CB as next boat Errr...what is a "hand hole"?   Sent from my Verizon 
4G LTE smartphone

 Original message 
From: Josh Muckley via CnC-List  
Date: 12/4/16 19:44 (GMT-05:00) 
To: cnc-list@cnc-list.com 
Cc: Josh Muckley  
Subject: Re: Stus-List Looking at C&C 37/40+ CB as next boat 

My holding tank is plastic but the hand hole came loose and was a considerable 
pain in the ass to fix.  The forward water tank in mine is aluminum and the 
fuel tank is aluminum.  The back stay attachments are a place for detailed 
inspection.  You'll probably find that the steering cable idlers plate, 
directly under the pedestal, is probably badly rusted.  It should be one of the 
first safety repairs.  The engine mounts may be soft and in need of replacement 
too.  Josh MuckleyS/V Sea Hawk1989 C&C 37+Solomons, MD

On Sun, Dec 4, 2016, 6:28 PM Gary Russell via CnC-List  
wrote:

 Hi Mark,  Wow!  We have a lot in common.  Last year I sold my 35 Mk II 
(Expresso) and bought my 37/40+.  I loved Expresso, but the 37+ is better in 
almost every way.  The performance difference is breathtaking.  The boat I 
bought was in pretty bad shape and I spent almost a year refitting her.  We 
renamed her "Kaylarah" after my grand daughters Kayla and Sarah.  The side 
windows are chronic problems on these boats, but almost all of them have that 
problem, so you will probably have to deal with that.  If you are, at all 
handy, they are not that hard to fix.  I can give you a lot of advice in that 
area.  The holding tank is made out of aluminum, and the tank was installed 
before the interior was installed.  Repairing/replacing the tank is a big deal. 
 Of course, you should watch out for the usual punky cored deck.  Otherwise she 
is a good boat with minimal problems.  Text me if you need specific advice.  
There are a lot of 37/40+ owners on this forum and they have a lot of helpful 
knowledge.   Good luck, Gary S/V Kaylarah '90 C&C 37+ East Greenwich, RI, USA   
  ~~~_/)~~

    On Sun, Dec 4, 2016 at 6:48 PM, Mark via CnC-List  
wrote:
 
I am looking at a 1993 C&C 37/40+ CB model as our next boat. My first big boat 
was a 1974 C&C 27 which I had to 12 years, then upgraded to a 1975 C&C 35 MKII 
in 1992. After 25 years (come February) on the best boat ever built, I'm 
looking to upgrade to something a little more cruising, but with C&C 
performance. Given that requirement, it seems reasonable that I should stick 
with C&C.

I've read through the all the email lists concerning the C&C 37+ and most 
everything looks positive. The boat I'm looking at is listed in Marco Island 
and immediately needs hatches and windows. I looked at it over the Thanksgiving 
holidays, and other that those issues, it seems quite basic; doesn't appear to 
have been raced hard (i.e. no spin hardware & Dacron sails) and not much in 
cruising upgrades (i.e. needs windless, davits, etc.). Could be a good platform 
to start with.

For you C&C 37/40+ owners out there, is there any thing I should pay close 
attention to other than engine condition & standing rigging condition that 
could bite me.

Thanks,
Mark Baldridge
~~_/)
'75 C&C35 MKII "The Edge"
Surf City, NC


___

This list is supported by the generous donations of our members. If you wish to 
make a contribution to offset our costs, please go to:  
https://www.paypal.me/stumurray

All Contributions are greatly appreciated!

  ___

This list is supported by the generous donations of our members. If you wish to 
make a contribution to offset our costs, please go to:  
https://www.paypal.me/stumurray

All Contributions are greatly appreciated!

___

This list is supported by the generous donations of our members. If you wish to 
make a contribution to offset our costs, please go to:  
https://www.paypal.me/stumurray

All Contributions are greatly appreciated!


 
___

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make a contribution to offset our costs, please go to: 
https://www.paypal.me/stumurray

All Contributions are greatly appreciated!


 
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This list is supported by the generous donations of our members. If you wish to 
make a contribution to offset our costs, please go 

Re: Stus-List Epoxy Putty

[Persuasion37 via CnC-List]

Mark

There are several varieties.  Some will cure underwater.  I have 2 or 3 on 
Persuasion.  I did do a repair on a waterline on a friends boat.  To my 
knowledge it became a permanent repair.  Can't remember which ones I have.  
Probably available at Harbour Freight or Princess Auto north of the border.

Mike
PERSUASION
C&C 37 K/CB
Long Sault

> On Dec 5, 2016, at 6:58 PM, Dr. Mark Bodnar via CnC-List 
>  wrote:
> 
> 
> Anyone use the epoxy putty for their boats? 2 part putty that you mix together
> 
> https://www.amazon.ca/gp/product/B008DYMZCG/ref=ox_sc_act_title_1?smid=A3DWYIK6Y9EEQB&psc=1
> 
> I was talking to a friend the other day - he was telling me how he wrapped a 
> line around his prop and jammed his strut up into the hull.  He discovered a 
> small fountain of water coming in.
> 
> He had some of the epoxy putty - squeezed it together to start the reaction 
> and mashed it in around the damaged area  - he then held it in place with his 
> hands as it warmed up and cured.  90% of the water stopped - so he mixed up a 
> bit more and was able to stop all the incoming water.  Confident enough that 
> he left the boat on a mooring overnight and had it hauled a day or 2 later 
> for repairs.
> 
> I'm thinking I should have a couple tubes of this on the boat for emergencies.
> 
> Mark
> 
> 
> BTW - Jamie at Shining Waters Marine did his repair - my friend had nothing 
> but great things to say about the workmanship -- I believe Jamie is  C+C 
> lister Mike Amirault's son.
> 
> 
> -- 
> 
> 
> 
> There is no cure for birth and death save to enjoy the interval.
>  - George Santayana
> 
> 
> ___
> 
> This list is supported by the generous donations of our members. If you wish 
> to make a contribution to offset our costs, please go to:  
> https://www.paypal.me/stumurray
> 
> All Contributions are greatly appreciated!

___

This list is supported by the generous donations of our members. If you wish to 
make a contribution to offset our costs, please go to:  
https://www.paypal.me/stumurray

All Contributions are greatly appreciated!

Stus-List Epoxy Putty

[Dr. Mark Bodnar via CnC-List]

Anyone use the epoxy putty for their boats? 2 part putty that you mix 
together


https://www.amazon.ca/gp/product/B008DYMZCG/ref=ox_sc_act_title_1?smid=A3DWYIK6Y9EEQB&psc=1

I was talking to a friend the other day - he was telling me how he 
wrapped a line around his prop and jammed his strut up into the hull.  
He discovered a small fountain of water coming in.


He had some of the epoxy putty - squeezed it together to start the 
reaction and mashed it in around the damaged area  - he then held it in 
place with his hands as it warmed up and cured.  90% of the water 
stopped - so he mixed up a bit more and was able to stop all the 
incoming water.  Confident enough that he left the boat on a mooring 
overnight and had it hauled a day or 2 later for repairs.


I'm thinking I should have a couple tubes of this on the boat for 
emergencies.


Mark


BTW - Jamie at Shining Waters Marine did his repair - my friend had 
nothing but great things to say about the workmanship -- I believe Jamie 
is  C+C lister Mike Amirault's son.



--



There is no cure for birth and death save to enjoy the interval.
  - George Santayana


___

This list is supported by the generous donations of our members. If you wish to 
make a contribution to offset our costs, please go to:  
https://www.paypal.me/stumurray

All Contributions are greatly appreciated!

Re: Stus-List Looking at C&C 37/40+ CB as next boat

[Chuck S via CnC-List]

A "hand hole" is an inspection hole with a cover large enough to get a hand 
through. A "manhole" is larger allowing a man to get through.


> On December 5, 2016 at 2:08 PM "Matthew L. Wolford via CnC-List" 
>  wrote:
> 
> Inspection plate???
>  
> From: David via CnC-List mailto:cnc-list@cnc-list.com
> Sent: Monday, December 05, 2016 11:54 AM
> To: cnc-list@cnc-list.com mailto:cnc-list@cnc-list.com
> Cc: David mailto:davidrisc...@msn.com
> Subject: Re: Stus-List Looking at C&C 37/40+ CB as next boat
>  
> Errr...what is a "hand hole"?
>  
>  
>  
> Sent from my Verizon 4G LTE smartphone
> 
> 
>  Original message 
> From: Josh Muckley via CnC-List 
> Date: 12/4/16 19:44 (GMT-05:00)
> To: cnc-list@cnc-list.com
> Cc: Josh Muckley 
> Subject: Re: Stus-List Looking at C&C 37/40+ CB as next boat
> 
> My holding tank is plastic but the hand hole came loose and was a 
> considerable pain in the ass to fix.  The forward water tank in mine is 
> aluminum and the fuel tank is aluminum.  The back stay attachments are a 
> place for detailed inspection.  You'll probably find that the steering cable 
> idlers plate, directly under the pedestal, is probably badly rusted.  It 
> should be one of the first safety repairs.  The engine mounts may be soft and 
> in need of replacement too.
>  
> Josh Muckley
> S/V Sea Hawk
> 1989 C&C 37+
> Solomons, MD
> 
> On Sun, Dec 4, 2016, 6:28 PM Gary Russell via CnC-List 
> mailto:cnc-list@cnc-list.com > wrote:
> 
> > > Hi Mark,
> >  Wow!  We have a lot in common.  Last year I sold my 35 Mk II 
> > (Expresso) and bought my 37/40+.  I loved Expresso, but the 37+ is better 
> > in almost every way.  The performance difference is breathtaking.  The boat 
> > I bought was in pretty bad shape and I spent almost a year refitting her.  
> > We renamed her "Kaylarah" after my grand daughters Kayla and Sarah.  The 
> > side windows are chronic problems on these boats, but almost all of them 
> > have that problem, so you will probably have to deal with that.  If you 
> > are, at all handy, they are not that hard to fix.  I can give you a lot of 
> > advice in that area.  The holding tank is made out of aluminum, and the 
> > tank was installed before the interior was installed.  Repairing/replacing 
> > the tank is a big deal.  Of course, you should watch out for the usual 
> > punky cored deck.  Otherwise she is a good boat with minimal problems.  
> > Text me if you need specific advice.  There are a lot of 37/40+ owners on 
> > this forum and they have a lot of help
 ful knowledge.
> >  
> > Good luck,
> > Gary
> > S/V Kaylarah
> > '90 C&C 37+
> > East Greenwich, RI, USA
> >  
> > ~~~_/)~~
> > 
> >  
> > On Sun, Dec 4, 2016 at 6:48 PM, Mark via CnC-List 
> > mailto:cnc-list@cnc-list.com > wrote:
> > 
> > > > > I am looking at a 1993 C&C 37/40+ CB model as our next 
> > boat. My first big boat was a 1974 C&C 27 which I had to 12 years, then 
> > upgraded to a 1975 C&C 35 MKII in 1992. After 25 years (come February) on 
> > the best boat ever built, I'm looking to upgrade to something a little more 
> > cruising, but with C&C performance. Given that requirement, it seems 
> > reasonable that I should stick with C&C.
> > > 
> > > I've read through the all the email lists concerning the C&C 
> > > 37+ and most everything looks positive. The boat I'm looking at is listed 
> > > in Marco Island and immediately needs hatches and windows. I looked at it 
> > > over the Thanksgiving holidays, and other that those issues, it seems 
> > > quite basic; doesn't appear to have been raced hard (i.e. no spin 
> > > hardware & Dacron sails) and not much in cruising upgrades (i.e. needs 
> > > windless, davits, etc.). Could be a good platform to start with.
> > > 
> > > For you C&C 37/40+ owners out there, is there any thing I 
> > > should pay close attention to other than engine condition & standing 
> > > rigging condition that could bite me.
> > > 
> > > Thanks,
> > > Mark Baldridge
> > > ~~_/)
> > > '75 C&C35 MKII "The Edge"
> > > Surf City, NC
> > > 
> > > 
> > > ___
> > > 
> > > This list is supported by the generous donations of our 
> > > members. If you wish to make a contribution to offset our costs, please 
> > > go to:  https://www.paypal.me/stumurray
> > > 
> > > All Contributions are greatly appreciated!
> > > 
> > > > >  
> > ___
> > 
> > This list is supported by the generous donations of our members. If 
> > you wish to make a contribution to offset our costs, please go to:  
> > https://www

Re: Stus-List weeping hull

[Mike Brannon via CnC-List]

Jacob,  the C&C 36 hull is cored throughout.   The area around the keel stub is 
solid.   The area to which you refer is most likely cored.

Mike Brannon
Virginia Lee  93295
1978 C&C 36 CB 

Sent from my iPad Mini

> On Nov 18, 2016, at 14:52, jacob fuerst via CnC-List  
> wrote:
> 
> In my '78 C&C 36 I am seeing a couple spots where salt water is weeping in 
> through the hull near the bilge area, appearing from seemingly nowhere as if 
> from a spring. One point is about 3' back from the mast and 18" to the side. 
> The other is closer to the keel but they both are on the edges of hull 
> stringers. 
> 
> I've had a few people look at it and I've gotten everything from an estimate 
> to rebed the keel (though the bolts seem fine and I had the boat out in May), 
> to cutting apart the fiberglass to locate where the water is running from, to 
> don't worry about it.
> 
> Has anyone had this happen before? How big of a deal is it? The amount of 
> water is minimal but I believe they were coring the hulls. Does anyone know 
> the exact cross sectional thickness of the fiberglass? Were just the sides of 
> the boat cored or did they do the entire hull? How did that work where the 
> keel meets? Is it possible that a through-hull is leaking and water is 
> running up to several feet along the core and popping up somewhere random 
> where it has found a weak spot in the fiberglass? 
> 
> -- 
> Jacob Fuerst
> 303-520-4669
> ___
> 
> This list is supported by the generous donations of our members. If you wish 
> to make a contribution to offset our costs, please go to:  
> https://www.paypal.me/stumurray
> 
> All Contributions are greatly appreciated!
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make a contribution to offset our costs, please go to:  
https://www.paypal.me/stumurray

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Re: Stus-List Looking at C&C 37/40+ CB as next boat

[Matthew L. Wolford via CnC-List]

Inspection plate???

From: David via CnC-List 
Sent: Monday, December 05, 2016 11:54 AM
To: cnc-list@cnc-list.com 
Cc: David 
Subject: Re: Stus-List Looking at C&C 37/40+ CB as next boat

Errr...what is a "hand hole"?



Sent from my Verizon 4G LTE smartphone


 Original message 
From: Josh Muckley via CnC-List  
Date: 12/4/16 19:44 (GMT-05:00) 
To: cnc-list@cnc-list.com 
Cc: Josh Muckley  
Subject: Re: Stus-List Looking at C&C 37/40+ CB as next boat 


My holding tank is plastic but the hand hole came loose and was a considerable 
pain in the ass to fix.  The forward water tank in mine is aluminum and the 
fuel tank is aluminum.  The back stay attachments are a place for detailed 
inspection.  You'll probably find that the steering cable idlers plate, 
directly under the pedestal, is probably badly rusted.  It should be one of the 
first safety repairs.  The engine mounts may be soft and in need of replacement 
too. 

Josh Muckley
S/V Sea Hawk
1989 C&C 37+
Solomons, MD


On Sun, Dec 4, 2016, 6:28 PM Gary Russell via CnC-List  
wrote:

  Hi Mark, 
   Wow!  We have a lot in common.  Last year I sold my 35 Mk II (Expresso) 
and bought my 37/40+.  I loved Expresso, but the 37+ is better in almost every 
way.  The performance difference is breathtaking.  The boat I bought was in 
pretty bad shape and I spent almost a year refitting her.  We renamed her 
"Kaylarah" after my grand daughters Kayla and Sarah.  The side windows are 
chronic problems on these boats, but almost all of them have that problem, so 
you will probably have to deal with that.  If you are, at all handy, they are 
not that hard to fix.  I can give you a lot of advice in that area.  The 
holding tank is made out of aluminum, and the tank was installed before the 
interior was installed.  Repairing/replacing the tank is a big deal.  Of 
course, you should watch out for the usual punky cored deck.  Otherwise she is 
a good boat with minimal problems.  Text me if you need specific advice.  There 
are a lot of 37/40+ owners on this forum and they have a lot of helpful 
knowledge.

  Good luck,
  Gary
  S/V Kaylarah
  '90 C&C 37+
  East Greenwich, RI, USA

  ~~~_/)~~



  On Sun, Dec 4, 2016 at 6:48 PM, Mark via CnC-List  
wrote:

I am looking at a 1993 C&C 37/40+ CB model as our next boat. My first big 
boat was a 1974 C&C 27 which I had to 12 years, then upgraded to a 1975 C&C 35 
MKII in 1992. After 25 years (come February) on the best boat ever built, I'm 
looking to upgrade to something a little more cruising, but with C&C 
performance. Given that requirement, it seems reasonable that I should stick 
with C&C.

I've read through the all the email lists concerning the C&C 37+ and most 
everything looks positive. The boat I'm looking at is listed in Marco Island 
and immediately needs hatches and windows. I looked at it over the Thanksgiving 
holidays, and other that those issues, it seems quite basic; doesn't appear to 
have been raced hard (i.e. no spin hardware & Dacron sails) and not much in 
cruising upgrades (i.e. needs windless, davits, etc.). Could be a good platform 
to start with.

For you C&C 37/40+ owners out there, is there any thing I should pay close 
attention to other than engine condition & standing rigging condition that 
could bite me.

Thanks,
Mark Baldridge
~~_/)
'75 C&C35 MKII "The Edge"
Surf City, NC


___

This list is supported by the generous donations of our members. If you 
wish to make a contribution to offset our costs, please go to:  
https://www.paypal.me/stumurray

All Contributions are greatly appreciated!


  ___

  This list is supported by the generous donations of our members. If you wish 
to make a contribution to offset our costs, please go to:  
https://www.paypal.me/stumurray

  All Contributions are greatly appreciated!




___

This list is supported by the generous donations of our members. If you wish to 
make a contribution to offset our costs, please go to:  
https://www.paypal.me/stumurray

All Contributions are greatly appreciated!
___

This list is supported by the generous donations of our members. If you wish to 
make a contribution to offset our costs, please go to:  
https://www.paypal.me/stumurray

All Contributions are greatly appreciated!

Re: Stus-List Spinnaker handling safety tip

[Della Barba, Joe via CnC-List]

To add:
On the 35 MK I at least, the sheet trimmer steers the boat too. If you have a 
good one or at least one that responds quickly to calls like “5 feet – 10 feet 
– take it back”, you can go in a more or less straight line when some of your 
newer IOR design competition is … ah…not going straight ☺
Joe
Coquina

From: CnC-List [mailto:cnc-list-boun...@cnc-list.com] On Behalf Of Matthew L. 
Wolford via CnC-List
Sent: Monday, December 05, 2016 11:44
To: cnc-list@cnc-list.com
Cc: Matthew L. Wolford 
Subject: Re: Stus-List Spinnaker handling safety tip

Amen to that.

From: Dennis C. via CnC-List
Sent: Monday, December 05, 2016 11:35 AM
To: CnClist
Cc: Dennis C.
Subject: Stus-List Spinnaker handling safety tip

While we're on the subject of spinnaker handling, when dead downwind in heavy 
breeze, never, ever let the center seam on the bottom panel of your chute be to 
WINDWARD of the forestay.  That is, keep the pole a bit forward.  You're 
probably already at hull speed so you don't need to optimize the trim.
It's a whole lot better to broach than to do a "death roll".
Dennis C.

___

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make a contribution to offset our costs, please go to:  
https://www.paypal.me/stumurray

All Contributions are greatly appreciated!
___

This list is supported by the generous donations of our members. If you wish to 
make a contribution to offset our costs, please go to:  
https://www.paypal.me/stumurray

All Contributions are greatly appreciated!

Re: Stus-List Looking at C&C 37/40+ CB as next boat

[David via CnC-List]

Errr...what is a "hand hole"?



Sent from my Verizon 4G LTE smartphone


 Original message 
From: Josh Muckley via CnC-List 
Date: 12/4/16 19:44 (GMT-05:00)
To: cnc-list@cnc-list.com
Cc: Josh Muckley 
Subject: Re: Stus-List Looking at C&C 37/40+ CB as next boat

My holding tank is plastic but the hand hole came loose and was a considerable 
pain in the ass to fix.  The forward water tank in mine is aluminum and the 
fuel tank is aluminum.  The back stay attachments are a place for detailed 
inspection.  You'll probably find that the steering cable idlers plate, 
directly under the pedestal, is probably badly rusted.  It should be one of the 
first safety repairs.  The engine mounts may be soft and in need of replacement 
too.

Josh Muckley
S/V Sea Hawk
1989 C&C 37+
Solomons, MD

On Sun, Dec 4, 2016, 6:28 PM Gary Russell via CnC-List 
mailto:cnc-list@cnc-list.com>> wrote:
Hi Mark,
 Wow!  We have a lot in common.  Last year I sold my 35 Mk II (Expresso) 
and bought my 37/40+.  I loved Expresso, but the 37+ is better in almost every 
way.  The performance difference is breathtaking.  The boat I bought was in 
pretty bad shape and I spent almost a year refitting her.  We renamed her 
"Kaylarah" after my grand daughters Kayla and Sarah.  The side windows are 
chronic problems on these boats, but almost all of them have that problem, so 
you will probably have to deal with that.  If you are, at all handy, they are 
not that hard to fix.  I can give you a lot of advice in that area.  The 
holding tank is made out of aluminum, and the tank was installed before the 
interior was installed.  Repairing/replacing the tank is a big deal.  Of 
course, you should watch out for the usual punky cored deck.  Otherwise she is 
a good boat with minimal problems.  Text me if you need specific advice.  There 
are a lot of 37/40+ owners on this forum and they have a lot of helpful 
knowledge.

Good luck,
Gary
S/V Kaylarah
'90 C&C 37+
East Greenwich, RI, USA

~~~_/)~~


On Sun, Dec 4, 2016 at 6:48 PM, Mark via CnC-List 
mailto:cnc-list@cnc-list.com>> wrote:
I am looking at a 1993 C&C 37/40+ CB model as our next boat. My first big boat 
was a 1974 C&C 27 which I had to 12 years, then upgraded to a 1975 C&C 35 MKII 
in 1992. After 25 years (come February) on the best boat ever built, I'm 
looking to upgrade to something a little more cruising, but with C&C 
performance. Given that requirement, it seems reasonable that I should stick 
with C&C.

I've read through the all the email lists concerning the C&C 37+ and most 
everything looks positive. The boat I'm looking at is listed in Marco Island 
and immediately needs hatches and windows. I looked at it over the Thanksgiving 
holidays, and other that those issues, it seems quite basic; doesn't appear to 
have been raced hard (i.e. no spin hardware & Dacron sails) and not much in 
cruising upgrades (i.e. needs windless, davits, etc.). Could be a good platform 
to start with.

For you C&C 37/40+ owners out there, is there any thing I should pay close 
attention to other than engine condition & standing rigging condition that 
could bite me.

Thanks,
Mark Baldridge
~~_/)
'75 C&C35 MKII "The Edge"
Surf City, NC


___

This list is supported by the generous donations of our members. If you wish to 
make a contribution to offset our costs, please go to:  
https://www.paypal.me/stumurray

All Contributions are greatly appreciated!

___

This list is supported by the generous donations of our members. If you wish to 
make a contribution to offset our costs, please go to:  
https://www.paypal.me/stumurray

All Contributions are greatly appreciated!
___

This list is supported by the generous donations of our members. If you wish to 
make a contribution to offset our costs, please go to:  
https://www.paypal.me/stumurray

All Contributions are greatly appreciated!

Re: Stus-List Spinnaker handling safety tip

[Matthew L. Wolford via CnC-List]

Amen to that.

From: Dennis C. via CnC-List 
Sent: Monday, December 05, 2016 11:35 AM
To: CnClist 
Cc: Dennis C. 
Subject: Stus-List Spinnaker handling safety tip

While we're on the subject of spinnaker handling, when dead downwind in heavy 
breeze, never, ever let the center seam on the bottom panel of your chute be to 
WINDWARD of the forestay.  That is, keep the pole a bit forward.  You're 
probably already at hull speed so you don't need to optimize the trim.


It's a whole lot better to broach than to do a "death roll".


Dennis C.




___

This list is supported by the generous donations of our members. If you wish to 
make a contribution to offset our costs, please go to:  
https://www.paypal.me/stumurray

All Contributions are greatly appreciated!
___

This list is supported by the generous donations of our members. If you wish to 
make a contribution to offset our costs, please go to:  
https://www.paypal.me/stumurray

All Contributions are greatly appreciated!

Stus-List Spinnaker handling safety tip

[Dennis C. via CnC-List]

While we're on the subject of spinnaker handling, when dead downwind in
heavy breeze, never, ever let the center seam on the bottom panel of your
chute be to WINDWARD of the forestay.  That is, keep the pole a bit
forward.  You're probably already at hull speed so you don't need to
optimize the trim.

It's a whole lot better to broach than to do a "death roll".

Dennis C.
___

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make a contribution to offset our costs, please go to:  
https://www.paypal.me/stumurray

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Re: Stus-List Spinnaker pole handling

[Michael Brown via CnC-List]

On Windburn we do end-for-end due to carrying an oversized pole.
The J is 13.5' and the the pole is 14.4'. We normally do not have guys.

If there is difficulty keeping the chute stable and helping out foredeck
by steering the chute try centering the main for a moment just as they
are about to snap in the mast end.

Further to what Dennis is advising I find that losing the sail area of the
spinnaker due to it not drawing well is slower than losing the sail area
of the main for 5 - 10 seconds during the gybe. Note that the symmetrical
spinnaker is 850 sq ft vs 225 sq ft for the main on Windburn.

In very light winds when gybing from a hot angle centering the main
also helps to keep the spinnaker from collapsing and wrapping the
forestay.

Michael Brown
Windburn
C&C 30-1


From: "Dennis C."  
 
Charlie, 
 
While many consider 35-36 feet the upper limit for end for end gybes, we 
use end for end with an aluminum pole on Touche' (35-1).  With the right 
technique, you shouldn't have issues. 
 
I've been doing foredeck since the mid 90's.  I think the key to a good, 
and safe, end for end gybe is the driver and the way the driver and crew 
think about the gybe. 
 
Many sailors think a chute gybe is moving the chute across the boat.  I 
don't subscribe to that philosophy. 
 
A better way to think about gybing is you're moving the BOAT under the 
chute.  Doesn't sound like much of a difference but it really is.  The idea 
is to keep the chute flying and drawing while the driver gradually steers 
the boat to the new course.  If the chute continues to fly effectively, 
connecting the pole to the new sheet and then the mast will be nearly 
effortless. 
 
Sit down with your crew and talk about gybing with this philosophy.  It may 
be the difference you need. 
 
Dennis C. 
Touche' 35-1 #83 
Mandeville, LA 
 
On Sun, Dec 4, 2016 at 8:20 PM, Charlie Nelson via CnC-List < 
cnc-list@cnc-list.com> wrote: 
 
> We use a carbon fiber pole on Water Phantom, C&C 36 XL/kcb, for our 
> kite(s) and have 'oscillated' back and forth between doing dip-pole jibes 
> or end-for-end. The pole is a relatively light Forte carbon fiber pole with 
> snap-in fitting on both ends. 
> 
> We always use lazy sheets and guys. 
> 
> As the driver, I don't have strong feelings about which method we use or 
> should use. 
> 
> However, especially in breezes above 8 knots, it looks to me like our 
> jibes are taking too much time when we end for end the pole. Of course I 
> share some of the blame if I can't keep the boat headed downwind during the 
> jibe but even when I seem to manage keeping her downwind, the mast man 
> struggles to get the pole into the fitting and made--taking valuable time 
> and giving a lot of downwind separation to our competitors. Of course, it 
> also puts him at risk for the pole smashing him about the head and 
> shoulders if the pressure builds on the kite before he has it made. 
> 
> I am convinced that my boat can sail to her rating upwind in breezes above 
> about 8 knots--less not so much!--but downwind we often waste what seems 
> like too much time on jibing. I say this with confidence since when we 
> raced non-spin with a whisker pole, until we learned how to set the pole 
> downwind, we would beat every boat to the windward mark and have most of 
> them pass us on the way downwind. Once we got the mechanics straightened 
> out, no one passed us downwind even if a few gained on us. 
> 
> OTOH, if we dip pole, the bow person often gets the new guy in the pole in 
> the incorrect position (with his back to the bow), so there is certainly a 
> need for more practice. 
> 
> My question for the list is what method should we invest practice time in 
> so that jibing can be as routine as tacking. It seems that at 36 ft Water 
> Phantom and a fiber pole could go either way but I would prefer to always 
> use the same method so that we have a chance to get quick at it. 
> 
> Charlie Nelson 
> Water Phantom 
> C&C 36 XL/kcb 
> 
> cenel...@aol.com 
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make a contribution to offset our costs, please go to:  
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Re: Stus-List Spinnaker pole handling

[Della Barba, Joe via CnC-List]

I have never done anything but dip-pole gybes on our C&C 35.
We have also done "chicken gybes" where you drop the spinnaker totally and 
rehoist it on the other tack. We did this a couple of times in heavy air and 
thought we were being total wussies until we realized we gained a few boats 
over the boats that broke poles, wrapped the chute big time, or otherwise had 
gybing disasters.
Sailing shorthanded and cruising, I fly the chute in asym mode and gybe from 
the cockpit with no more issues than gybing the genoa.

Joe
Coquina


From: CnC-List [mailto:cnc-list-boun...@cnc-list.com] On Behalf Of robert via 
CnC-List
Sent: Monday, December 05, 2016 10:04
To: cnc-list@cnc-list.com
Cc: robert 
Subject: Stus-List Spinnaker pole handling

Charlie:

I was foredeck person racing, and we did a lot of racing.  As the boats got 
bigger we did dip-pole jibes.they are quick, easy and most importantly, 
safe. Changing from end to end gybes, we made the same mistakes as you, but to 
do it right, practice, practice and practice.and we did.

Before the gybe and trip of the old guy, bring the pole back almost 
perpendicular so the release is clean.  Then as helsman, after the pole is 
released, square off the spin in front of the boat until the new guy is 
made.one mistake is that the helsman over steers the boat before the crew 
completes the jibe.

Have mast person raise inboard end of pole ready to trip pole (old 
guy),..have your foredeck person in front of the forestay crouching down 
looking back leaning forward on the forestayhe always holds the new guy 
with the palm always pointed down to drop new guy in jaws .this way the 
thumb is always pointed back and can be used to pressure the jaw(s|) to 
close..always hold new guy the same way and you will never wrap 
jaws..have mast person assist with guiding the pole down to the foredeck 
person and help the pit man to raise the pole.

The dip pole gybe is a choreography with many people doing all the right things 
at the right time and when you get it right, you won't want to do end for end 
gybes.  The helmsman, pit man, trimmers, mast man and foredeck person all have 
to pay attention and know what each is doing and when.

Go out and practice.

Rob Abbott
AZURA
C&C 32 - 84
Halifax, N.S.



On 2016-12-04 10:20 PM, Charlie Nelson via CnC-List wrote:
We use a carbon fiber pole on Water Phantom, C&C 36 XL/kcb, for our kite(s) and 
have 'oscillated' back and forth between doing dip-pole jibes or end-for-end. 
The pole is a relatively light Forte carbon fiber pole with snap-in fitting on 
both ends.

We always use lazy sheets and guys.

As the driver, I don't have strong feelings about which method we use or should 
use.

However, especially in breezes above 8 knots, it looks to me like our jibes are 
taking too much time when we end for end the pole. Of course I share some of 
the blame if I can't keep the boat headed downwind during the jibe but even 
when I seem to manage keeping her downwind, the mast man struggles to get the 
pole into the fitting and made--taking valuable time and giving a lot of 
downwind separation to our competitors. Of course, it also puts him at risk for 
the pole smashing him about the head and shoulders if the pressure builds on 
the kite before he has it made.

I am convinced that my boat can sail to her rating upwind in breezes above 
about 8 knots--less not so much!--but downwind we often waste what seems like 
too much time on jibing. I say this with confidence since when we raced 
non-spin with a whisker pole, until we learned how to set the pole downwind, we 
would beat every boat to the windward mark and have most of them pass us on the 
way downwind. Once we got the mechanics straightened out, no one passed us 
downwind even if a few gained on us.

OTOH, if we dip pole, the bow person often gets the new guy in the pole in the 
incorrect position (with his back to the bow), so there is certainly a need for 
more practice.

My question for the list is what method should we invest practice time in so 
that jibing can be as routine as tacking. It seems that at 36 ft Water Phantom 
and a fiber pole could go either way but I would prefer to always use the same 
method so that we have a chance to get quick at it.

Charlie Nelson
Water Phantom
C&C 36 XL/kcb


cenel...@aol.com




___



This list is supported by the generous donations of our members. If you wish to 
make a contribution to offset our costs, please go to:  
https://www.paypal.me/stumurray



All Contributions are greatly appreciated!

___

This list is supported by the generous donations of our members. If you wish to 
make a contribution to offset our costs, please go to:  
https://www.paypal.me/stumurray

All Contributions are greatly appreciated!

Stus-List Spinnaker pole handling

[robert via CnC-List]

Charlie:

I was foredeck person racing, and we did a lot of racing.  As the boats 
got bigger we did dip-pole jibes.they are quick, easy and most 
importantly, safe. Changing from end to end gybes, we made the same 
mistakes as you, but to do it right, practice, practice and 
practice.and we did.


Before the gybe and trip of the old guy, bring the pole back almost 
perpendicular so the release is clean.  Then as helsman, after the pole 
is released, square off the spin in front of the boat until the new guy 
is made.one mistake is that the helsman over steers the boat before 
the crew completes the jibe.


Have mast person raise inboard end of pole ready to trip pole (old 
guy),..have your foredeck person in front of the forestay crouching 
down looking back leaning forward on the forestayhe always holds 
the new guy with the palm always pointed down to drop new guy in jaws 
.this way the thumb is always pointed back and can be used to 
pressure the jaw(s|) to close..always hold new guy the same way and 
you will never wrap jaws..have mast person assist with guiding the 
pole down to the foredeck person and help the pit man to raise the pole.


The dip pole gybe is a choreography with many people doing all the right 
things at the right time and when you get it right, you won't want to do 
end for end gybes.  The helmsman, pit man, trimmers, mast man and 
foredeck person all have to pay attention and know what each is doing 
and when.


Go out and practice.

Rob Abbott
AZURA
C&C 32 - 84
Halifax, N.S.




On 2016-12-04 10:20 PM, Charlie Nelson via CnC-List wrote:
We use a carbon fiber pole on Water Phantom, C&C 36 XL/kcb, for our 
kite(s) and have 'oscillated' back and forth between doing dip-pole 
jibes or end-for-end. The pole is a relatively light Forte carbon 
fiber pole with snap-in fitting on both ends.


We always use lazy sheets and guys.

As the driver, I don't have strong feelings about which method we use 
or should use.


However, especially in breezes above 8 knots, it looks to me like our 
jibes are taking too much time when we end for end the pole. Of course 
I share some of the blame if I can't keep the boat headed downwind 
during the jibe but even when I seem to manage keeping her downwind, 
the mast man struggles to get the pole into the fitting and 
made--taking valuable time and giving a lot of downwind separation to 
our competitors. Of course, it also puts him at risk for the pole 
smashing him about the head and shoulders if the pressure builds on 
the kite before he has it made.


I am convinced that my boat can sail to her rating upwind in breezes 
above about 8 knots--less not so much!--but downwind we often waste 
what seems like too much time on jibing. I say this with confidence 
since when we raced non-spin with a whisker pole, until we learned how 
to set the pole downwind, we would beat every boat to the windward 
mark and have most of them pass us on the way downwind. Once we got 
the mechanics straightened out, no one passed us downwind even if a 
few gained on us.


OTOH, if we dip pole, the bow person often gets the new guy in the 
pole in the incorrect position (with his back to the bow), so there is 
certainly a need for more practice.


My question for the list is what method should we invest practice time 
in so that jibing can be as routine as tacking. It seems that at 36 ft 
Water Phantom and a fiber pole could go either way but I would prefer 
to always use the same method so that we have a chance to get quick at it.


Charlie Nelson
Water Phantom
C&C 36 XL/kcb


cenel...@aol.com


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make a contribution to offset our costs, please go to:  
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All Contributions are greatly appreciated!

Re: Stus-List Spinnaker pole handling

[Matthew L. Wolford via CnC-List]

Charlie:

I have a 42 and we only dip the pole.  I have raced on smaller boats, 
however, and Mike’s assessment is good.  That said, your question indicates 
that you want to commit to one method or the other (to get really good at it), 
and you’re asking for a suggestion as to which one to choose.  Given that the 
dip method will most certainly need to be used above 10 knots or so on your 
boat, I would commit to this method.  Otherwise, your crew will continue to 
practice two methods and may not master one.  My two cents.

MLW

From: Hoyt, Mike via CnC-List 
Sent: Monday, December 05, 2016 9:00 AM
To: cnc-list@cnc-list.com 
Cc: Hoyt, Mike 
Subject: Re: Stus-List Spinnaker pole handling

Hi Charlie

 

I would like to first say that our family had a 1981 C&C 36 since new for nine 
years.  However we rarely flew the spinnaker on it, never raced and I do not 
recall ever gybing.  That said I did feel that it was a big powerful boat at 
the time.

 

On our boats we have always done end for end because it is simpler and faster.  
Initially on our Niagara 26 we did dip pole (because I knew no other way) and 
it was slow and un-necessary and we switched to end for end.  We carried this 
over to the J/27 as well.  We have always sailed with just one sheet/guy on 
either side.  In the Frers fleet however at 33 feet LOA dip pole starts to 
become more common and half the boats use separate sheets and guys and some do 
dip pole when the wind pipes up.  We have stayed with end for end and one set 
of lines because it is easier and because I have no intention of flying the 
chute when it is truly windy.  On a friend’s C&C33-2 the pole has ends that 
only allow dip pole and they are considering changing so they can do end for 
end. With the C&C 115 we were always dip pole.  The pole is set up so only that 
is possible.  

 

>From what I understand after a certain size dip pole is not only much safer 
>but just about all that is possible.  I would think that a C&C 36 is pretty 
>much approaching that size with its masthead rig and relatively large J.

 

On our boat I often end up doing foredeck (because we have a lot of people 
capable of doing the other jobs).  There are usually two factors that make an 
end for end gybe difficult.  The first is the driver turning before the mast 
end is made which puts excessive pressure on the pole and can make completing 
the gybe nearly impossible.  The second is when the person on the new guy 
sheets it in too soon putting pressure on the mast end.  As it gets windier 
both of these situations become more difficult to resolve

 

On the C&C 115 I was on main.  Of course like many main trimmers I would too 
often watch the foredeck rather than my sail.  Dip pole required a good mast 
man along with a good bow man and they had to be in sync.  With the extra line 
we very frequently managed to wrap the new guy around the jaws rather thn 
allowing it to move freely.  Many times we did not have smooth gybes as a 
result.  From this perspective end for end would be much simpler

 

If the 36 were my boat and we were used to end for end I would stick with that 
up til 8 knows with single sheet and guy and then dip pole with double 
sheet/guy above that.  This would make for the quickest gybes IMO

 

Mike

 

From: CnC-List [mailto:cnc-list-boun...@cnc-list.com] On Behalf Of Charlie 
Nelson via CnC-List
Sent: Sunday, December 04, 2016 10:21 PM
To: cnc-list@cnc-list.com
Cc: cenel...@aol.com
Subject: Stus-List Spinnaker pole handling

 

We use a carbon fiber pole on Water Phantom, C&C 36 XL/kcb, for our kite(s) and 
have 'oscillated' back and forth between doing dip-pole jibes or end-for-end. 
The pole is a relatively light Forte carbon fiber pole with snap-in fitting on 
both ends. 

 

We always use lazy sheets and guys.

 

As the driver, I don't have strong feelings about which method we use or should 
use. 

 

However, especially in breezes above 8 knots, it looks to me like our jibes are 
taking too much time when we end for end the pole. Of course I share some of 
the blame if I can't keep the boat headed downwind during the jibe but even 
when I seem to manage keeping her downwind, the mast man struggles to get the 
pole into the fitting and made--taking valuable time and giving a lot of 
downwind separation to our competitors. Of course, it also puts him at risk for 
the pole smashing him about the head and shoulders if the pressure builds on 
the kite before he has it made.

 

I am convinced that my boat can sail to her rating upwind in breezes above 
about 8 knots--less not so much!--but downwind we often waste what seems like 
too much time on jibing. I say this with confidence since when we raced 
non-spin with a whisker pole, until we learned how to set the pole downwind, we 
would beat every boat to the windward mark and have most of them pass us on the 
way downwind. Once we got the mechanics straightened out, no one passed us 
downwind even if a few gained 

Re: Stus-List Spinnaker pole handling

[Hoyt, Mike via CnC-List]

Hi Charlie

I would like to first say that our family had a 1981 C&C 36 since new for nine 
years.  However we rarely flew the spinnaker on it, never raced and I do not 
recall ever gybing.  That said I did feel that it was a big powerful boat at 
the time.

On our boats we have always done end for end because it is simpler and faster.  
Initially on our Niagara 26 we did dip pole (because I knew no other way) and 
it was slow and un-necessary and we switched to end for end.  We carried this 
over to the J/27 as well.  We have always sailed with just one sheet/guy on 
either side.  In the Frers fleet however at 33 feet LOA dip pole starts to 
become more common and half the boats use separate sheets and guys and some do 
dip pole when the wind pipes up.  We have stayed with end for end and one set 
of lines because it is easier and because I have no intention of flying the 
chute when it is truly windy.  On a friend’s C&C33-2 the pole has ends that 
only allow dip pole and they are considering changing so they can do end for 
end. With the C&C 115 we were always dip pole.  The pole is set up so only that 
is possible.

From what I understand after a certain size dip pole is not only much safer but 
just about all that is possible.  I would think that a C&C 36 is pretty much 
approaching that size with its masthead rig and relatively large J.

On our boat I often end up doing foredeck (because we have a lot of people 
capable of doing the other jobs).  There are usually two factors that make an 
end for end gybe difficult.  The first is the driver turning before the mast 
end is made which puts excessive pressure on the pole and can make completing 
the gybe nearly impossible.  The second is when the person on the new guy 
sheets it in too soon putting pressure on the mast end.  As it gets windier 
both of these situations become more difficult to resolve

On the C&C 115 I was on main.  Of course like many main trimmers I would too 
often watch the foredeck rather than my sail.  Dip pole required a good mast 
man along with a good bow man and they had to be in sync.  With the extra line 
we very frequently managed to wrap the new guy around the jaws rather thn 
allowing it to move freely.  Many times we did not have smooth gybes as a 
result.  From this perspective end for end would be much simpler

If the 36 were my boat and we were used to end for end I would stick with that 
up til 8 knows with single sheet and guy and then dip pole with double 
sheet/guy above that.  This would make for the quickest gybes IMO

Mike

From: CnC-List [mailto:cnc-list-boun...@cnc-list.com] On Behalf Of Charlie 
Nelson via CnC-List
Sent: Sunday, December 04, 2016 10:21 PM
To: cnc-list@cnc-list.com
Cc: cenel...@aol.com
Subject: Stus-List Spinnaker pole handling

We use a carbon fiber pole on Water Phantom, C&C 36 XL/kcb, for our kite(s) and 
have 'oscillated' back and forth between doing dip-pole jibes or end-for-end. 
The pole is a relatively light Forte carbon fiber pole with snap-in fitting on 
both ends.

We always use lazy sheets and guys.

As the driver, I don't have strong feelings about which method we use or should 
use.

However, especially in breezes above 8 knots, it looks to me like our jibes are 
taking too much time when we end for end the pole. Of course I share some of 
the blame if I can't keep the boat headed downwind during the jibe but even 
when I seem to manage keeping her downwind, the mast man struggles to get the 
pole into the fitting and made--taking valuable time and giving a lot of 
downwind separation to our competitors. Of course, it also puts him at risk for 
the pole smashing him about the head and shoulders if the pressure builds on 
the kite before he has it made.

I am convinced that my boat can sail to her rating upwind in breezes above 
about 8 knots--less not so much!--but downwind we often waste what seems like 
too much time on jibing. I say this with confidence since when we raced 
non-spin with a whisker pole, until we learned how to set the pole downwind, we 
would beat every boat to the windward mark and have most of them pass us on the 
way downwind. Once we got the mechanics straightened out, no one passed us 
downwind even if a few gained on us.

OTOH, if we dip pole, the bow person often gets the new guy in the pole in the 
incorrect position (with his back to the bow), so there is certainly a need for 
more practice.

My question for the list is what method should we invest practice time in so 
that jibing can be as routine as tacking. It seems that at 36 ft Water Phantom 
and a fiber pole could go either way but I would prefer to always use the same 
method so that we have a chance to get quick at it.

Charlie Nelson
Water Phantom
C&C 36 XL/kcb


cenel...@aol.com
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htt

Re: Stus-List Short handed sailing; sail selection - now lazy jacks

[Hoyt, Mike via CnC-List]

I mentioned Friday that I have used Lazy Jacks and been on a boat with a stack 
pack main (note Stack Pack is basically Doyle’s variation of Dutchman).  The 
note below captures a lot of my observations

Our last two boats came with lazy jacks.  On a J27 it was plain silly.  I cut 
them off the mast prior to launching the first time.  On our 33 the boat was 
already launched so we put up with them the first season.  They were very 
annoying when hoisting the sail as they love to get tangled with the ends of 
battens and they were in the way when putting the sail cover on.  When we tried 
to use them to douse the sail they did not seem to help in any way as the sail 
simply flopped all over the place.  Year two I took them off.  Then one weekend 
cruising shorthanded (2 ppl) taking the main down with a dodger up was very 
slow and I thought about it some more.  So year three I put the lazy jacks back 
on in a manner where I could easily run to base of shrouds when not in use and 
made an effort to determine how to use them better.

Doyle Stack Pack.  We went out for a Wednesday race on another Frers 33 that 
had just returned from a delivery back from a race week.  They had their Doyle 
Stack Pack sail on for the race.  My preconceived notion that the zipper on the 
sail and the stack pack would make the sail perform less well was incorrect.  
The sail actually had a nice shape and while not being a racing sail was as 
good or better a performer than pretty much any other cruising sail I have 
encountered.  At end of the race they simply let the halyard go and zipped up 
the stack.  No sail cover, no work at all and very impressive and quick.. All 
of this in a sail that did not perform badly in a casual race.

Last off season we toyed with getting a stack pack, implementing a Dutchman 
system or something else.  In the end we opted to try to make out lazy jacks 
work.  Ours have only two lines at the boom and have the micro blocks half way 
up.  I learned that you have to tighten the lazy jacks prior to dropping main 
and loosen when hoisting and sailing.  Also once main is down they have to be 
loosened to do  proper flake of the sail.  Doing this helped somewhat but we 
learned that the aft line was too far aft on the boom and allowed a lot of the 
sail to escape.  When we moved the aft eyestrap forward it helped quite a bit.  
Still however is not nearly as nice as something like a Stack Pack for the days 
where we would want something like this

This past summer we spent two weeks cruising in the boat.  We learned to like 
out ATN sock and asym for goofing around with spin on light days.  Is far 
slower than no sock at all when crewed but makes an option for short handed.  
Also since cruising we had our dodger on the boat and up.  This makes main sail 
handling a lot more effort than when it is off.  Also not being fully crewed 
adds to the issues.  Flaking the main with the dodger in the way of half the 
boom when approaching an anchorage (especially an unfamiliar one) is the best 
reason to have a system that allows the main to be put away in a few seconds 
rather than a few minutes.

It was great to  be not racing and have all the amenities aboard.  It was also 
an interesting exercise to shift focus from how to rig the boat for performance 
to setting up for excellent cruising.  The two most enjoyed features were on 
demand hot water and our bimini.  Neiteh of which is allowed on board while we 
are in racing mode ….

Mike
Persistence
1987 Frers 33
Halifax, NS
http://users.eastlink.ca/~mhoyt



From: CnC-List [mailto:cnc-list-boun...@cnc-list.com] On Behalf Of Daniel Sheer 
via CnC-List
Sent: Saturday, December 03, 2016 10:23 PM
To: cnc-list@cnc-list.com
Cc: Daniel Sheer
Subject: Re: Stus-List Short handed sailing; sail selection - now lazy jacks

Two years ago I had Chesapeake Sailmakers make a stack pack for Pegathy. The 
actual admiral (Pegathy's her college nickname) is less than 5'. That's all 
she'll admit to. So it's difficult for her to help flake a main that's sliding 
all over the cabin top, much less help put on the sailcover. And it's not a one 
person job on a 38' boat. Except now it is, with the stack pack. The sails 
raises on slides in the mast, and even if there's no one at the mast 
encouraging the sail to flake properly (a one man job), the sail flakes pretty 
well anyway, as long as the boat's dead into the wind. It's wonderfully easy - 
lower and zip, and I leave the stack pack on and raised unless I'm racing.

The main is loose footed, so the stack pack attaches to the boom via a sewn in 
tape that slides in the the boom slot. The whole thing can be tied close to the 
main with sail ties under the main for racing. The lazy jacks can then be led 
along the boom, straight up, then down the mast around a single cleat on each 
side. There's a flap that goes around the front of the boom and attaches with 
zippers to each side of the stack pack. All in all a wonderful arrangement, 

Re: Stus-List Looking at C&C 37/40+ CB as next boat (Mark)

[Brian Fry via CnC-List]

I didn't mean to insult anyone. I said plastic because I didn't have any
proof they were Marelon.
I had found this on another sailing forum:
http://forums.sailinganarchy.com/index.php?showtopic=154228

The internet used to mean never having to say I don't know. Now it means I
don't know what to believe.

On Dec 5, 2016 5:31 AM, "Ken Heaton"  wrote:

> The Thu Hull are actually Marelon®, a proprietary formulation of polymar
> composite compounds using composite reinforced polymer and additives to
> produce a superior marine-grade product.
>
>- For use above and below the waterline
>- Precision molded plumbing systems
>- Complete freedom from corrosion
>- U.L. and A.B.Y.C. approved
>
> Forespar "93" series valves and thru-hull fittings meet all design
> criteria and exceed all mechanical property requirements specified by the
> International Standards Organization
>
> http://www.forespar.com/what-is-marelon.shtml
>
> A bit better than just "plastic"
>
> Ken Heaton & Anne Tobin
> S/V Salazar - Can 54955
> C&C 37/40 XL - Hull # 67
> Cape Breton Island, Nova Scotia
>
> http://www.racethecape.ca/the-race/entrants/salazar/
>
> On 5 December 2016 at 01:07, Brian Fry via CnC-List  > wrote:
>
>> I just looked at the Ad in yachtworld. It looks identical to mine inside.
>> That engine, if it is a 3jh2 should be rated 38 HP, not 22.
>> I have a bit more tankage for water and waste.
>> I did replace my engine mounts last season.
>> Also had the Max prop refurbished.
>> I replaced the shaft seal.
>> I had an issue with a loose connection on the ammeter at the panel.
>> Some of the wiring is corroding at this point, so look for that.
>> My chainplates and the cabin handrails leaked inside. I replaced the
>> handrails with stainless steel.
>> The PO added a hatch in the Head for access to the water pump impeller,
>> very nice, though I may enlarge it.
>> The thru hulls are plastic in the head and for the forward sink and the
>> raw water for the washdown pump. I will be replacing them.
>> Looks pretty decent for that price.
>> Hit me up for any information I can provide.
>>
>>
>> --
>> Brian Fry
>> S/V La Neige
>> 1993 C&C 37/40XL
>> HdG Maryland
>>
>> ___
>>
>> This list is supported by the generous donations of our members. If you
>> wish to make a contribution to offset our costs, please go to:
>> https://www.paypal.me/stumurray
>>
>> All Contributions are greatly appreciated!
>>
>>
>
___

This list is supported by the generous donations of our members. If you wish to 
make a contribution to offset our costs, please go to:  
https://www.paypal.me/stumurray

All Contributions are greatly appreciated!

Re: Stus-List Looking at C&C 37/40+ CB as next boat (Mark)

[Ken Heaton via CnC-List]

The Thu Hull are actually Marelon®, a proprietary formulation of polymar
composite compounds using composite reinforced polymer and additives to
produce a superior marine-grade product.

   - For use above and below the waterline
   - Precision molded plumbing systems
   - Complete freedom from corrosion
   - U.L. and A.B.Y.C. approved

Forespar "93" series valves and thru-hull fittings meet all design criteria
and exceed all mechanical property requirements specified by the
International Standards Organization

http://www.forespar.com/what-is-marelon.shtml

A bit better than just "plastic"

Ken Heaton & Anne Tobin
S/V Salazar - Can 54955
C&C 37/40 XL - Hull # 67
Cape Breton Island, Nova Scotia

http://www.racethecape.ca/the-race/entrants/salazar/

On 5 December 2016 at 01:07, Brian Fry via CnC-List 
wrote:

> I just looked at the Ad in yachtworld. It looks identical to mine inside.
> That engine, if it is a 3jh2 should be rated 38 HP, not 22.
> I have a bit more tankage for water and waste.
> I did replace my engine mounts last season.
> Also had the Max prop refurbished.
> I replaced the shaft seal.
> I had an issue with a loose connection on the ammeter at the panel.
> Some of the wiring is corroding at this point, so look for that.
> My chainplates and the cabin handrails leaked inside. I replaced the
> handrails with stainless steel.
> The PO added a hatch in the Head for access to the water pump impeller,
> very nice, though I may enlarge it.
> The thru hulls are plastic in the head and for the forward sink and the
> raw water for the washdown pump. I will be replacing them.
> Looks pretty decent for that price.
> Hit me up for any information I can provide.
>
>
> --
> Brian Fry
> S/V La Neige
> 1993 C&C 37/40XL
> HdG Maryland
>
> ___
>
> This list is supported by the generous donations of our members. If you
> wish to make a contribution to offset our costs, please go to:
> https://www.paypal.me/stumurray
>
> All Contributions are greatly appreciated!
>
>
___

This list is supported by the generous donations of our members. If you wish to 
make a contribution to offset our costs, please go to:  
https://www.paypal.me/stumurray

All Contributions are greatly appreciated!