Re: Stus-List Mast Step Pitch & Helm Balance

[RANDY via CnC-List]

Congrats Charles on your acquisition of Destrier, and welcome to the list. 

I offer you the opportunity to learn from my mistakes on the mast step project 
and otherwise :) 

Cheers, 
Randy Stafford 
S/V Grenadine 
C 30-1 #7 
Ken Caryl, CO 

- Original Message -

From: "Cleverboy via CnC-List"  
To: "cnc-list"  
Cc: "Cleverboy"  
Sent: Sunday, March 26, 2017 3:39:07 PM 
Subject: Re: Stus-List Mast Step Pitch & Helm Balance 



@ Gary and Randy, I just got Destrier, a 30-1 last year and pulled the mast 
over the winter. I am also rebuilding the mast step support. I have found 
exactly the same conditions as everyone has reported. As bad as it was, it 
lasted 43 years. Destrier was raced for many years but I am not really a racer. 
I love the boat. Absolutely rock solid. 




Charles Ferrari 

Destrier 

73 C 30-1 

City Island, NY 
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Re: Stus-List Hot water heater bypass

[Marek Dziedzic via CnC-List]

One more point. Kind of obvious, but I will mention it. When you winterise, 
make sure that you either drain all water out of the tank or you blow it out. I 
can’t drain it  into the bilge (the way the bilge is designed on my boat is 
stupid), so I have to blow it.

Btw. It saves about 5-6 gal of AF in the fall and incredible amount of grief 
(to flush it out) in the spring.

Marek

Sent from Mail for Windows 10

From: Joel Aronson via CnC-List
Sent: March 26, 2017 18:20
To: cnc-list@cnc-list.com
Cc: Joel Aronson
Subject: Re: Stus-List Hot water heater bypass

Thanks guys!  So glad I asked!

Joel
On Sun, Mar 26, 2017 at 6:17 PM Josh Muckley via CnC-List 
> wrote:
Yep, my bad, I thought I had found the 2 valve system.  Either will work but 
I'm with Marek, the 2 valve is probably better.

The system I built also included a thermal regulating valve (red knob).  I can 
crank the thermostat WAY up while at dock (and the 160 - 180° water from the 
engine while motoring) and it gets regulated down to whatever safe level I set. 
 It lets me get 3 showers from a single 6 gallon tank of hot water.

Josh


On Mar 26, 2017 6:06 PM, "Marek Dziedzic via CnC-List" 
> wrote:

There is a better off the shelf system with two valves (on both ends) - Google 
“Camco 35953” (or 35963; they differ only in the length of the bypass hose). 
Works like a charm.



Marek

1994 C270 “Legato”

Ottawa, ON



From: CnC-List 
[mailto:cnc-list-boun...@cnc-list.com] On 
Behalf Of Joel Aronson via CnC-List
Sent: Sunday, March 26, 2017 17:50

To: cnc-list@cnc-list.com
Cc: Joel Aronson >
Subject: Re: Stus-List Hot water heater bypass



Off the shelf will work. Great job soldering!

Joel



On Sun, Mar 26, 2017 at 5:39 PM Josh Muckley via CnC-List 
> wrote:

They make a kit for this.  It uses two 3-way valves.

http://m.campingworld.com/shopping/item/quick-turn-by-pass-kit/15717



I built a system for mine before I realized that there was an off the shelf 
solution.

https://drive.google.com/folderview?id=0B8pEh5lnvP1ydEpoMU1MWmx6Qms



Josh Muckley

S/V Sea Hawk

1989 C 37+

Solomons, MD



On Mar 26, 2017 5:01 PM, "Joel Aronson via CnC-List" 
> wrote:

All



I'm replacing my hot water heater heater and want to be able to bypass the 
heater when winterizing.

I was thinking of putting shut offs on the inlet and outlet with a bypass below 
the shut offs with its own valve. In normal operation I would close the bypass 
valve. Is there a better way?



Joel

--

Joel
301 541 8551

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--

Joel
301 541 8551

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___

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--
Joel
301 541 8551
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Re: Stus-List Mast Step Pitch & Helm Balance

[Matthew L. Wolford via CnC-List]

Randy:

The drawing for my boat does not show perfectly plumb – that was the point. 
 The drawing showed a slight rake.  It would be easier in a drawing to draw a 
mast perpendicular to the side view, but the drawing for the 42 shows a slight 
rake.  We surmised that C must have had a reason for expending the 
extraordinary effort of showing a slight rake on a drawing.  By doing a little 
math, we were able to figure out from the drawing what that rake is, which I 
duplicated in the field.  I’m sure it’s not perfect, but I think we got close.

The reason it was so important to get it right with the Spartite plug is 
that once you make one, the mast is pretty much staying there.  With wooden 
blocks at the partners, you can move things around to make adjustments, 
including adjusting the rake for various conditions if you want.  With a 
Spartite plug, once it’s done it’s done.  I also made Spartite chocks in the 
mast step box, so nothing moves from the deck down.  When I’m going through 
8-10 footers on Lake Erie, I like it that way.

It’s Matt by the way.  Hope your project is going well.

MLW 

From: RANDY via CnC-List 
Sent: Saturday, March 25, 2017 1:24 PM
To: cnc-list 
Cc: RANDY 
Subject: Re: Stus-List Mast Step Pitch & Helm Balance

Thank you all for the excellent responses.

Matthew, figuring out what C's intentions were, for aft mast step elevation, 
is what I'm trying to do.  I assume they intended for the mast to perfectly 
plumb when the boat is sitting on her designed waterline in perfectly calm 
water and calm air.  Then rig tuners would set the rake from there.  Of course, 
those aren't the conditions I'm working in, so it's all guesswork (levels are 
useless with the boat on the trailer).

Michael, interesting point about heel at the foot of the mast.  I'll check that 
out today.  I assumed the foot of my mast is flat, and makes contact all the 
way around the mast box.  I agree the side-to-side level is critical - from rig 
tuning last year, I believe Grenadine's is off (the aft end of the mast block 
lists to port, requiring more halyard tension to touch the starboard rail than 
the port rail, and I couldn't correct that via upper shroud tension without 
bowing the mast).  That should get corrected by the new aft support, assuming I 
cut it and install it correctly.

Rick thanks for the reminder about the owner's manual rig tuning instructions 
cautioning against forward rake.  I follow those instructions to the letter for 
rig tuning, and you're exactly right, I set 8" of rake on Grenadine.  Regarding 
my 30-kt experience, it was on June 22nd last year - see archived wind graph at 
http://wx.iwindsurf.com/map#39.548,-105.08,14,1,!11170,7.  We had 
light-to-decent wind for our race at 6:30, so I was flying all that sail.  Then 
after the race the wind really piped up and I wanted to learn how Grenadine 
would behave under that press of canvas.  At the moment of that 30-kt (true) 
gust just after 8:00, I was on starboard tack close reach, trimmed for that 
point of sail, going 7.6 knots according to GPS (with fixed 2-blade prop even), 
with five people on the rail, and my genoa tore before I got a rail in the 
water.  That's how stiff a 30-1 is.  Of course I had a hell of a lot of weather 
helm in those conditions, and I was within about an inch or another degree of 
heel of burying the rail.  I've yet to learn what it takes to bury a rail on a 
30-1.  If Grenadine had had a folding prop at the time, I believe she could 
have touched 8 knots.  Will find out this year :)

Given all these great responses, I think I'll split the difference and cut the 
aft support to the elevation indicated by the dashed line in 
https://drive.google.com/open?id=0B-NqAxQ6JxFTU3hRNmZoMUU1MFk.  Thanks again 
everyone.

Cheers,
Randy




From: "Rick Brass via CnC-List" 
To: "cnc-list" 
Cc: "Rick Brass" 
Sent: Saturday, March 25, 2017 9:27:38 AM
Subject: Re: Stus-List Mast Step Pitch & Helm Balance


Randy;



I could have sworn that I have seen a table that lists the initial mast rake 
for various C models built in the 70’s, but I’m not able to find it.



The rig tuning information on the Photo Album, and the information in the 
owner’s manuals that came with my 25 mk1 and my 38 mk2 all show the same 
information about setting up the mast rake:



On a 24, the target for initial rake is 6” measured at the gooseneck. For the 
38, the target is 10”. Looking up the I dimensions and doing a little math says 
the initial target for your 30-1 would be 8” of rake. But the instructions 
indicate (and this could have changed over time) that some sailmakers prefer no 
rake when they make the sails, and caution against having any forward rake in 
the mast. The process recommended in the manuals is to set the mast up (close 
to vertical is implied) and then 

Re: Stus-List Hot water heater bypass

[Russ & Melody via CnC-List]

I love this topic.

Back up a little. If you already have hot 
water... why do you need to heat it? :)


' couldn't help that, grinnin' while I hit "send"

Cheers, Russ

At 02:00 PM 26/03/2017, you wrote:

All

I'm replacing my hot water heater heater and 
want to be able to bypass the heater when winterizing.Â
I was thinking of putting shut offs on the inlet 
and outlet with a bypass below the shut offs 
with its own valve. In normal operation I would 
close the bypass valve. Is there a better way?


JoelÂ
--
Joel
301 541 8551
___

This list is supported by the generous donations 
of our members. If you wish to make a 
contribution to offset our costs, please go 
to:  https://www.paypal.me/stumurray


All Contributions are greatly appreciated!



___

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make a contribution to offset our costs, please go to:  
https://www.paypal.me/stumurray

All Contributions are greatly appreciated!

Re: Stus-List Hot water heater bypass

[Jake Brodersen via CnC-List]

I could see where a kit like that could save you a lot of antifreeze.

 

Jake

 

Jake Brodersen

C 35 Mk-III “Midnight Mistress”

Hampton VA



 

 

 

 

From: CnC-List [mailto:cnc-list-boun...@cnc-list.com] On Behalf Of Josh Muckley 
via CnC-List
Sent: Sunday, March 26, 2017 17:38
To: C List 
Cc: Josh Muckley 
Subject: Re: Stus-List Hot water heater bypass

 

They make a kit for this.  It uses two 3-way valves.

http://m.campingworld.com/shopping/item/quick-turn-by-pass-kit/15717

 

I built a system for mine before I realized that there was an off the shelf 
solution.

https://drive.google.com/folderview?id=0B8pEh5lnvP1ydEpoMU1MWmx6Qms

 

Josh Muckley

S/V Sea Hawk

1989 C 37+

Solomons, MD

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Re: Stus-List Emergency tiller refinement

[Syerdave--- via CnC-List]

Thanks Dennis.   Have since improved the wrench tethering by cutting off the 
open end, drilling for the line.   Much nicer, almost slick.   Will post pics.  
 Had contemplated installing clips in that locker location but I am not sure 
whether there is adequate coring in the glass to take the screws.  I may need 
to epoxy some plywood in there.   Have been considering other stowage options, 
probably making it more complicated than need be.
Really looking forward to getting on the water, 13 more sleeps!

Dave.

> On Mar 26, 2017, at 5:44 PM, Dennis C.  wrote:
> 
> Creative idea on the wrench storage.  I keep mine attached to the e-tiller 
> with a couple of Velcro straps.
> 
> Touche's e-tiiler is stored in a cockpit locker on a couple of Beckson 
> Clip-Mate clips.  It is very accessible.  See it here:  
> https://drive.google.com/open?id=0B_sb5TfIENvsOExxSmZUR0JXUVU
> 
> Note: this pic shows the wrench taped to the e-tiller.  Taken before the 
> Velcro strap "upgrade".
> 
> Right above it is a boathook, also in clips.
> 
> Dennis C.
> 
> 
> 
>> On Sun, Mar 26, 2017 at 2:33 PM, Dave S via CnC-List  
>> wrote:
>> http://cncwindstar.blogspot.ca/2017/03/c-33ii-emergency-tiller-refinements.html
>> 
>> Dave
>> 33ii windstar
>> 
>> 
>> 
>> ___
>> 
>> This list is supported by the generous donations of our members. If you wish 
>> to make a contribution to offset our costs, please go to:  
>> https://www.paypal.me/stumurray
>> 
>> All Contributions are greatly appreciated!
>> 
> 
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make a contribution to offset our costs, please go to:  
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Re: Stus-List Hot water heater bypass

[Dennis C. via CnC-List]

Got it.

Dennis

On Sun, Mar 26, 2017 at 5:29 PM, Joel Aronson via CnC-List <
cnc-list@cnc-list.com> wrote:

> I'm going to use it on the fresh water side.
>
> Joel
> On Sun, Mar 26, 2017 at 6:28 PM Dennis C. via CnC-List <
> cnc-list@cnc-list.com> wrote:
>
>> Has anyone actually tried that RV bypass kit?  How much water does it
>> pass?  Are the ports big enough?  I know most systems use only a portion of
>> the coolant but if you're running your entire engine coolant flow through
>> it, it may not pass enough coolant to cool your engine.
>>
>> For only a few $$ more you can make your own that will be properly sized
>> and use marine grade parts.  Just give it some thought.
>>
>> Dennis C.
>>
>>
>> On Sun, Mar 26, 2017 at 5:16 PM, Josh Muckley via CnC-List <
>> cnc-list@cnc-list.com> wrote:
>>
>>
>> ___
>>
>> This list is supported by the generous donations of our members. If you
>> wish to make a contribution to offset our costs, please go to:
>> https://www.paypal.me/stumurray
>>
>> All Contributions are greatly appreciated!
>>
> --
> Joel
> 301 541 8551 <(301)%20541-8551>
>
> ___
>
> This list is supported by the generous donations of our members. If you
> wish to make a contribution to offset our costs, please go to:
> https://www.paypal.me/stumurray
>
> All Contributions are greatly appreciated!
>
>
___

This list is supported by the generous donations of our members. If you wish to 
make a contribution to offset our costs, please go to:  
https://www.paypal.me/stumurray

All Contributions are greatly appreciated!

Re: Stus-List Hot water heater bypass

[Joel Aronson via CnC-List]

I'm going to use it on the fresh water side.

Joel
On Sun, Mar 26, 2017 at 6:28 PM Dennis C. via CnC-List <
cnc-list@cnc-list.com> wrote:

> Has anyone actually tried that RV bypass kit?  How much water does it
> pass?  Are the ports big enough?  I know most systems use only a portion of
> the coolant but if you're running your entire engine coolant flow through
> it, it may not pass enough coolant to cool your engine.
>
> For only a few $$ more you can make your own that will be properly sized
> and use marine grade parts.  Just give it some thought.
>
> Dennis C.
>
>
> On Sun, Mar 26, 2017 at 5:16 PM, Josh Muckley via CnC-List <
> cnc-list@cnc-list.com> wrote:
>
>
> ___
>
> This list is supported by the generous donations of our members. If you
> wish to make a contribution to offset our costs, please go to:
> https://www.paypal.me/stumurray
>
> All Contributions are greatly appreciated!
>
-- 
Joel
301 541 8551
___

This list is supported by the generous donations of our members. If you wish to 
make a contribution to offset our costs, please go to:  
https://www.paypal.me/stumurray

All Contributions are greatly appreciated!

Re: Stus-List Hot water heater bypass

[Dennis C. via CnC-List]

Has anyone actually tried that RV bypass kit?  How much water does it
pass?  Are the ports big enough?  I know most systems use only a portion of
the coolant but if you're running your entire engine coolant flow through
it, it may not pass enough coolant to cool your engine.

For only a few $$ more you can make your own that will be properly sized
and use marine grade parts.  Just give it some thought.

Dennis C.

On Sun, Mar 26, 2017 at 5:16 PM, Josh Muckley via CnC-List <
cnc-list@cnc-list.com> wrote:

>
>
___

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make a contribution to offset our costs, please go to:  
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Re: Stus-List Hot water heater bypass

[Joel Aronson via CnC-List]

Thanks guys!  So glad I asked!

Joel
On Sun, Mar 26, 2017 at 6:17 PM Josh Muckley via CnC-List <
cnc-list@cnc-list.com> wrote:

> Yep, my bad, I thought I had found the 2 valve system.  Either will work
> but I'm with Marek, the 2 valve is probably better.
>
> The system I built also included a thermal regulating valve (red knob).  I
> can crank the thermostat WAY up while at dock (and the 160 - 180° water
> from the engine while motoring) and it gets regulated down to whatever safe
> level I set.  It lets me get 3 showers from a single 6 gallon tank of hot
> water.
>
> Josh
>
>
> On Mar 26, 2017 6:06 PM, "Marek Dziedzic via CnC-List" <
> cnc-list@cnc-list.com> wrote:
>
> There is a better off the shelf system with two valves (on both ends) -
> Google “Camco 35953” (or 35963; they differ only in the length of the
> bypass hose). Works like a charm.
>
>
>
> Marek
>
> 1994 C270 “Legato”
>
> Ottawa, ON
>
>
>
> *From:* CnC-List [mailto:cnc-list-boun...@cnc-list.com] *On Behalf Of *Joel
> Aronson via CnC-List
> *Sent:* Sunday, March 26, 2017 17:50
>
> *To:* cnc-list@cnc-list.com
> *Cc:* Joel Aronson 
> *Subject:* Re: Stus-List Hot water heater bypass
>
>
>
> Off the shelf will work. Great job soldering!
>
> Joel
>
>
>
> On Sun, Mar 26, 2017 at 5:39 PM Josh Muckley via CnC-List <
> cnc-list@cnc-list.com> wrote:
>
> They make a kit for this.  It uses two 3-way valves.
>
> http://m.campingworld.com/shopping/item/quick-turn-by-pass-kit/15717
>
>
>
> I built a system for mine before I realized that there was an off the
> shelf solution.
>
> https://drive.google.com/folderview?id=0B8pEh5lnvP1ydEpoMU1MWmx6Qms
>
>
>
> Josh Muckley
>
> S/V Sea Hawk
>
> 1989 C 37+
>
> Solomons, MD
>
>
>
> On Mar 26, 2017 5:01 PM, "Joel Aronson via CnC-List" <
> cnc-list@cnc-list.com> wrote:
>
> All
>
>
>
> I'm replacing my hot water heater heater and want to be able to bypass the
> heater when winterizing.
>
> I was thinking of putting shut offs on the inlet and outlet with a bypass
> below the shut offs with its own valve. In normal operation I would close
> the bypass valve. Is there a better way?
>
>
>
> Joel
>
> --
>
> Joel
> 301 541 8551 <(301)%20541-8551>
>
>
> ___
>
> This list is supported by the generous donations of our members. If you
> wish to make a contribution to offset our costs, please go to:
> https://www.paypal.me/stumurray
>
> All Contributions are greatly appreciated!
>
> ___
>
> This list is supported by the generous donations of our members. If you
> wish to make a contribution to offset our costs, please go to:
> https://www.paypal.me/stumurray
>
> All Contributions are greatly appreciated!
>
> --
>
> Joel
> 301 541 8551 <(301)%20541-8551>
>
> ___
>
> This list is supported by the generous donations of our members. If you
> wish to make a contribution to offset our costs, please go to:
> https://www.paypal.me/stumurray
>
> All Contributions are greatly appreciated!
>
>
> ___
>
> This list is supported by the generous donations of our members. If you
> wish to make a contribution to offset our costs, please go to:
> https://www.paypal.me/stumurray
>
> All Contributions are greatly appreciated!
>
-- 
Joel
301 541 8551
___

This list is supported by the generous donations of our members. If you wish to 
make a contribution to offset our costs, please go to:  
https://www.paypal.me/stumurray

All Contributions are greatly appreciated!

Re: Stus-List Hot water heater bypass

[Josh Muckley via CnC-List]

Yep, my bad, I thought I had found the 2 valve system.  Either will work
but I'm with Marek, the 2 valve is probably better.

The system I built also included a thermal regulating valve (red knob).  I
can crank the thermostat WAY up while at dock (and the 160 - 180° water
from the engine while motoring) and it gets regulated down to whatever safe
level I set.  It lets me get 3 showers from a single 6 gallon tank of hot
water.

Josh

On Mar 26, 2017 6:06 PM, "Marek Dziedzic via CnC-List" <
cnc-list@cnc-list.com> wrote:

There is a better off the shelf system with two valves (on both ends) -
Google “Camco 35953” (or 35963; they differ only in the length of the
bypass hose). Works like a charm.



Marek

1994 C270 “Legato”

Ottawa, ON



*From:* CnC-List [mailto:cnc-list-boun...@cnc-list.com] *On Behalf Of *Joel
Aronson via CnC-List
*Sent:* Sunday, March 26, 2017 17:50

*To:* cnc-list@cnc-list.com
*Cc:* Joel Aronson 
*Subject:* Re: Stus-List Hot water heater bypass



Off the shelf will work. Great job soldering!

Joel



On Sun, Mar 26, 2017 at 5:39 PM Josh Muckley via CnC-List <
cnc-list@cnc-list.com> wrote:

They make a kit for this.  It uses two 3-way valves.

http://m.campingworld.com/shopping/item/quick-turn-by-pass-kit/15717



I built a system for mine before I realized that there was an off the shelf
solution.

https://drive.google.com/folderview?id=0B8pEh5lnvP1ydEpoMU1MWmx6Qms



Josh Muckley

S/V Sea Hawk

1989 C 37+

Solomons, MD



On Mar 26, 2017 5:01 PM, "Joel Aronson via CnC-List" 
wrote:

All



I'm replacing my hot water heater heater and want to be able to bypass the
heater when winterizing.

I was thinking of putting shut offs on the inlet and outlet with a bypass
below the shut offs with its own valve. In normal operation I would close
the bypass valve. Is there a better way?



Joel

-- 

Joel
301 541 8551 <(301)%20541-8551>


___

This list is supported by the generous donations of our members. If you
wish to make a contribution to offset our costs, please go to:
https://www.paypal.me/stumurray

All Contributions are greatly appreciated!

___

This list is supported by the generous donations of our members. If you
wish to make a contribution to offset our costs, please go to:
https://www.paypal.me/stumurray

All Contributions are greatly appreciated!

-- 

Joel
301 541 8551 <(301)%20541-8551>

___

This list is supported by the generous donations of our members. If you
wish to make a contribution to offset our costs, please go to:
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All Contributions are greatly appreciated!
___

This list is supported by the generous donations of our members. If you wish to 
make a contribution to offset our costs, please go to:  
https://www.paypal.me/stumurray

All Contributions are greatly appreciated!

Re: Stus-List Hot water heater bypass

[Marek Dziedzic via CnC-List]

There is a better off the shelf system with two valves (on both ends) - Google 
“Camco 35953” (or 35963; they differ only in the length of the bypass hose). 
Works like a charm.

Marek
1994 C270 “Legato”
Ottawa, ON

From: CnC-List [mailto:cnc-list-boun...@cnc-list.com] On Behalf Of Joel Aronson 
via CnC-List
Sent: Sunday, March 26, 2017 17:50
To: cnc-list@cnc-list.com
Cc: Joel Aronson 
Subject: Re: Stus-List Hot water heater bypass

Off the shelf will work. Great job soldering!
Joel

On Sun, Mar 26, 2017 at 5:39 PM Josh Muckley via CnC-List 
> wrote:
They make a kit for this.  It uses two 3-way valves.
http://m.campingworld.com/shopping/item/quick-turn-by-pass-kit/15717

I built a system for mine before I realized that there was an off the shelf 
solution.
https://drive.google.com/folderview?id=0B8pEh5lnvP1ydEpoMU1MWmx6Qms

Josh Muckley
S/V Sea Hawk
1989 C 37+
Solomons, MD

On Mar 26, 2017 5:01 PM, "Joel Aronson via CnC-List" 
> wrote:
All

I'm replacing my hot water heater heater and want to be able to bypass the 
heater when winterizing.
I was thinking of putting shut offs on the inlet and outlet with a bypass below 
the shut offs with its own valve. In normal operation I would close the bypass 
valve. Is there a better way?

Joel
--
Joel
301 541 8551

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--
Joel
301 541 8551
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Stus-List Rid of old sails

[colin binkley via CnC-List]

How about "The Boat List" that was a topic a couple weeks or months ago. 
Colin
SV Lindsey Layne

Sent from my iPhone

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Re: Stus-List Hot water heater bypass

[Joel Aronson via CnC-List]

Off the shelf will work. Great job soldering!
Joel

On Sun, Mar 26, 2017 at 5:39 PM Josh Muckley via CnC-List <
cnc-list@cnc-list.com> wrote:

> They make a kit for this.  It uses two 3-way valves.
> http://m.campingworld.com/shopping/item/quick-turn-by-pass-kit/15717
>
> I built a system for mine before I realized that there was an off the
> shelf solution.
> https://drive.google.com/folderview?id=0B8pEh5lnvP1ydEpoMU1MWmx6Qms
>
> Josh Muckley
> S/V Sea Hawk
> 1989 C 37+
> Solomons, MD
>
> On Mar 26, 2017 5:01 PM, "Joel Aronson via CnC-List" <
> cnc-list@cnc-list.com> wrote:
>
> All
>
> I'm replacing my hot water heater heater and want to be able to bypass the
> heater when winterizing.
> I was thinking of putting shut offs on the inlet and outlet with a bypass
> below the shut offs with its own valve. In normal operation I would close
> the bypass valve. Is there a better way?
>
> Joel
> --
> Joel
> 301 541 8551 <(301)%20541-8551>
>
> ___
>
> This list is supported by the generous donations of our members. If you
> wish to make a contribution to offset our costs, please go to:
> https://www.paypal.me/stumurray
>
> All Contributions are greatly appreciated!
>
> ___
>
> This list is supported by the generous donations of our members. If you
> wish to make a contribution to offset our costs, please go to:
> https://www.paypal.me/stumurray
>
> All Contributions are greatly appreciated!
>
-- 
Joel
301 541 8551
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Re: Stus-List Emergency tiller refinement

[Dennis C. via CnC-List]

Creative idea on the wrench storage.  I keep mine attached to the e-tiller
with a couple of Velcro straps.

Touche's e-tiiler is stored in a cockpit locker on a couple of Beckson
Clip-Mate clips.  It is very accessible.  See it here:
https://drive.google.com/open?id=0B_sb5TfIENvsOExxSmZUR0JXUVU

Note: this pic shows the wrench taped to the e-tiller.  Taken before the
Velcro strap "upgrade".

Right above it is a boathook, also in clips.

Dennis C.



On Sun, Mar 26, 2017 at 2:33 PM, Dave S via CnC-List 
wrote:

> http://cncwindstar.blogspot.ca/2017/03/c-33ii-emergency-till
> er-refinements.html
>
> Dave
> 33ii windstar
>
>
>
> ___
>
> This list is supported by the generous donations of our members. If you
> wish to make a contribution to offset our costs, please go to:
> https://www.paypal.me/stumurray
>
> All Contributions are greatly appreciated!
>
>
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Re: Stus-List Mast Step Pitch & Helm Balance

[Cleverboy via CnC-List]

@ Gary and Randy, I just got Destrier, a 30-1 last year and pulled the mast 
over the winter. I am also rebuilding the mast step support. I have found 
exactly the same conditions as everyone has reported. As bad as it was, it 
lasted 43 years. Destrier was raced for many years but I am not really a racer. 
I love the boat. Absolutely rock solid.


Charles Ferrari

Destrier

73 C 30-1

City Island, NY


From: CnC-List  on behalf of RANDY via CnC-List 

Sent: Sunday, March 26, 2017 8:52:51 PM
To: cnc-list
Cc: RANDY
Subject: Re: Stus-List Mast Step Pitch & Helm Balance

Thanks Gary.  You might want to just bite the bullet and do the replacement job 
I'm in the middle of.  If I can do it, you can do it.  I'll do a full write-up 
somewhere when I'm done.  I've taken a ton of pictures.  Now signing off to go 
epoxy my new GPO-3 supports into Grenadine's bilge, after a lot of very dusty 
jigsaw-cutting and belt sander refining last night and this morning.

Cheers,
Randy


From: "Gary Nylander via CnC-List" 
To: "cnc-list" 
Cc: "Gary Nylander" 
Sent: Sunday, March 26, 2017 12:46:53 PM
Subject: Re: Stus-List Mast Step Pitch & Helm Balance

Randy and Lee….

The tree stump that C designed for the 30-1 is super stiff. Pre bend is 
pretty much fiction. I have a 4 to 1 backstay adjuster on my split backstay and 
the only thing it does when I haul on it as hard as possible is stiffen the 
forestay. Randy, you should go with your plan and center the mast and then see 
how the boat sails, then adjust the foot accordingly.

By the way, start by making sure the mast is centered in the boat from side to 
side. After being confused by the measurements and tensions on mine, I 
discovered the chainplates were one inch off, the starboard one being one inch 
closer to the rail than the port. Verified by measuring the inside of the boat 
as well. A few new holes in the mounting and a longer slot in the deck cured a 
number of issues.

I have three mast supports which were all soggy, the aft two much more than the 
forward one. They were made up of two pieces of ¾ plywood screwed together and 
fiberglassed, but the glass doesn’t cover the bottom, where the water just 
soaks up into the wood. A lot of G-Flex drilled down into the supports and some 
supporting boards has helped, but I am starting to think about a gallon of 
Epoxy down there.

Gary
#593
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Re: Stus-List Hot water heater bypass

[Josh Muckley via CnC-List]

They make a kit for this.  It uses two 3-way valves.
http://m.campingworld.com/shopping/item/quick-turn-by-pass-kit/15717

I built a system for mine before I realized that there was an off the shelf
solution.
https://drive.google.com/folderview?id=0B8pEh5lnvP1ydEpoMU1MWmx6Qms

Josh Muckley
S/V Sea Hawk
1989 C 37+
Solomons, MD

On Mar 26, 2017 5:01 PM, "Joel Aronson via CnC-List" 
wrote:

> All
>
> I'm replacing my hot water heater heater and want to be able to bypass the
> heater when winterizing.
> I was thinking of putting shut offs on the inlet and outlet with a bypass
> below the shut offs with its own valve. In normal operation I would close
> the bypass valve. Is there a better way?
>
> Joel
> --
> Joel
> 301 541 8551 <(301)%20541-8551>
>
> ___
>
> This list is supported by the generous donations of our members. If you
> wish to make a contribution to offset our costs, please go to:
> https://www.paypal.me/stumurray
>
> All Contributions are greatly appreciated!
>
>
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make a contribution to offset our costs, please go to:  
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Re: Stus-List Hot water heater bypass

[Dennis C. via CnC-List]

Couple of these?

https://www.amazon.com/Industrial-Grade-1PYZ9-Three-Valve/dp/B001NPGIZC

Dennis C.

On Sun, Mar 26, 2017 at 4:00 PM, Joel Aronson via CnC-List <
cnc-list@cnc-list.com> wrote:

> All
>
> I'm replacing my hot water heater heater and want to be able to bypass the
> heater when winterizing.
> I was thinking of putting shut offs on the inlet and outlet with a bypass
> below the shut offs with its own valve. In normal operation I would close
> the bypass valve. Is there a better way?
>
> Joel
> --
> Joel
> 301 541 8551 <(301)%20541-8551>
>
> ___
>
> This list is supported by the generous donations of our members. If you
> wish to make a contribution to offset our costs, please go to:
> https://www.paypal.me/stumurray
>
> All Contributions are greatly appreciated!
>
>
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make a contribution to offset our costs, please go to:  
https://www.paypal.me/stumurray

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Re: Stus-List Hot water heater bypass

[svpegasus38 via CnC-List]

That is how I would do it. I did something similar when I installed my day tank 
for the furnace.  


Sent from my T-Mobile 4G LTE DeviceDoug Mountjoy POYC Pegasus Lf38 
 Original message From: Joel Aronson via CnC-List 
 Date: 3/26/17  14:00  (GMT-08:00) To: 
cnc-list@cnc-list.com Cc: Joel Aronson  Subject: 
Stus-List Hot water heater bypass 
All
I'm replacing my hot water heater heater and want to be able to bypass the 
heater when winterizing. I was thinking of putting shut offs on the inlet and 
outlet with a bypass below the shut offs with its own valve. In normal 
operation I would close the bypass valve. Is there a better way?
Joel -- 
Joel 
301 541 8551
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Stus-List Hot water heater bypass

[Joel Aronson via CnC-List]

All

I'm replacing my hot water heater heater and want to be able to bypass the
heater when winterizing.
I was thinking of putting shut offs on the inlet and outlet with a bypass
below the shut offs with its own valve. In normal operation I would close
the bypass valve. Is there a better way?

Joel
-- 
Joel
301 541 8551
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Re: Stus-List Mast Step Pitch & Helm Balance

[RANDY via CnC-List]

Thanks Gary. You might want to just bite the bullet and do the replacement job 
I'm in the middle of. If I can do it, you can do it. I'll do a full write-up 
somewhere when I'm done. I've taken a ton of pictures. Now signing off to go 
epoxy my new GPO-3 supports into Grenadine's bilge, after a lot of very dusty 
jigsaw-cutting and belt sander refining last night and this morning. 

Cheers, 
Randy 

- Original Message -

From: "Gary Nylander via CnC-List"  
To: "cnc-list"  
Cc: "Gary Nylander"  
Sent: Sunday, March 26, 2017 12:46:53 PM 
Subject: Re: Stus-List Mast Step Pitch & Helm Balance 



Randy and Lee…. 



The tree stump that C designed for the 30-1 is super stiff. Pre bend is 
pretty much fiction. I have a 4 to 1 backstay adjuster on my split backstay and 
the only thing it does when I haul on it as hard as possible is stiffen the 
forestay. Randy, you should go with your plan and center the mast and then see 
how the boat sails, then adjust the foot accordingly. 



By the way, start by making sure the mast is centered in the boat from side to 
side. After being confused by the measurements and tensions on mine, I 
discovered the chainplates were one inch off, the starboard one being one inch 
closer to the rail than the port. Verified by measuring the inside of the boat 
as well. A few new holes in the mounting and a longer slot in the deck cured a 
number of issues. 



I have three mast supports which were all soggy, the aft two much more than the 
forward one. They were made up of two pieces of ¾ plywood screwed together and 
fiberglassed, but the glass doesn’t cover the bottom, where the water just 
soaks up into the wood. A lot of G-Flex drilled down into the supports and some 
supporting boards has helped, but I am starting to think about a gallon of 
Epoxy down there. 



Gary 

#593 
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Stus-List Emergency tiller refinement

[Dave S via CnC-List]

http://cncwindstar.blogspot.ca/2017/03/c-33ii-emergency-tiller-refinements.html

Dave
33ii windstar
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Re: Stus-List Fuel Tank Cleaning/Removal

[Gary Nylander via CnC-List]

I vote for plastic, even if you have to do some cutting. My 1980 boat had
the original aluminum tank which worked great until, at the end of last year
when I noticed a bit of red liquid in the area around the tank. It has now
been recycled somewhere because it had many small pinholes in its bottom.
Just got the new one (Mueller) mounted yesterday - not at all fun, but much
safer.

Gary

-Original Message-
From: CnC-List [mailto:cnc-list-boun...@cnc-list.com] On Behalf Of Brian
Morrison via CnC-List
Sent: Sunday, March 26, 2017 11:51 AM
To: cnc-list@cnc-list.com
Cc: Brian Morrison 
Subject: Stus-List Fuel Tank Cleaning/Removal

Hello,

I have a 1979 C 34 with the original aluminum fuel tank. I've recently had
some engine shutdown issues that I've traced to my fuel tank. Ideally I
would like to replace the tank with a plastic one. That was recommended by
the surveyor when I purchased the boat. The problem is access. The tank is
20 gallons and is too large to remove. On the other side, I would like to
replace it with a similar size tank. The problems, 1. how to remove the
original and 2. how to get the replacement in. 

The other option I'm looking at to address the fouling issue is to clean out
the tank. I just read an article in Practical Sailor on using a power
washer. Any suggestions on that method or others for cleaning out the crud
in the bottom of the tank would be appreciated. 

Thank you.

Brian
S/V Rekofa
1979 C 34
Fells Point, MD

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Re: Stus-List Mast Step Pitch & Helm Balance

[Gary Nylander via CnC-List]

Randy and Lee….

 

The tree stump that C designed for the 30-1 is super stiff. Pre bend is 
pretty much fiction. I have a 4 to 1 backstay adjuster on my split backstay and 
the only thing it does when I haul on it as hard as possible is stiffen the 
forestay. Randy, you should go with your plan and center the mast and then see 
how the boat sails, then adjust the foot accordingly.

 

By the way, start by making sure the mast is centered in the boat from side to 
side. After being confused by the measurements and tensions on mine, I 
discovered the chainplates were one inch off, the starboard one being one inch 
closer to the rail than the port. Verified by measuring the inside of the boat 
as well. A few new holes in the mounting and a longer slot in the deck cured a 
number of issues.

 

I have three mast supports which were all soggy, the aft two much more than the 
forward one. They were made up of two pieces of ¾ plywood screwed together and 
fiberglassed, but the glass doesn’t cover the bottom, where the water just 
soaks up into the wood. A lot of G-Flex drilled down into the supports and some 
supporting boards has helped, but I am starting to think about a gallon of 
Epoxy down there.

 

Gary

#593

 

From: CnC-List [mailto:cnc-list-boun...@cnc-list.com] On Behalf Of RANDY via 
CnC-List
Sent: Sunday, March 26, 2017 2:38 AM
To: cnc-list 
Cc: RANDY 
Subject: Re: Stus-List Mast Step Pitch & Helm Balance

 

Thanks Lee, you haven't ruined my day at all.  I do race my 30-1 and have a 
blast doing it.  Her mast butt does appear to have some rocker.  But 
unfortunately I don't have any information about how much (if any) pre-bend her 
main requires.  I'd think pre-bend would be easier to achieve on a fractional 
rig than a masthead rig, but I could see how you might be able to get some on a 
masthead rig by a combination of mast butt positioning and stay tension.

 

Cheers,

Randy

 

  _  

From: "Lee via CnC-List"  >
To: "cnc-list"  >
Cc: "Lee"  >
Sent: Saturday, March 25, 2017 11:50:08 PM
Subject: Re: Stus-List Mast Step Pitch & Helm Balance

 

Randy,sorry to complicate your project but there are a couple more 
considerations depending on just how involved and precise you want to be, If 
you intend to race your 30-1 {they are excellent for such} you will want to 
consider initial mast bend. If so the shape of the mast butt can ease the 
process by putting some rocker on the butt so as to control where mast 
compression puts pressure, fore or aft , or by shimming to achieve the same 
effect You can check the butt with a woodworking square.Your sailmaker can 
assist to determine how much prebend to use.Hope I didn't ruin your day.

 Lee c 35-3 cb

 Blue Point NY

-Original Message-
From: RANDY via CnC-List  >
To: cnc-list  >
Cc: RANDY  >
Sent: Sat, Mar 25, 2017 1:27 pm
Subject: Re: Stus-List Mast Step Pitch & Helm Balance

Thank you all for the excellent responses.

 

Matthew, figuring out what C's intentions were, for aft mast step elevation, 
is what I'm trying to do.  I assume they intended for the mast to perfectly 
plumb when the boat is sitting on her designed waterline in perfectly calm 
water and calm air.  Then rig tuners would set the rake from there.  Of course, 
those aren't the conditions I'm working in, so it's all guesswork (levels are 
useless with the boat on the trailer).

 

Michael, interesting point about heel at the foot of the mast.  I'll check that 
out today.  I assumed the foot of my mast is flat, and makes contact all the 
way around the mast box.  I agree the side-to-side level is critical - from rig 
tuning last year, I believe Grenadine's is off (the aft end of the mast block 
lists to port, requiring more halyard tension to touch the starboard rail than 
the port rail, and I couldn't correct that via upper shroud tension without 
bowing the mast).  That should get corrected by the new aft support, assuming I 
cut it and install it correctly.

 

Rick thanks for the reminder about the owner's manual rig tuning instructions 
cautioning against forward rake.  I follow those instructions to the letter for 
rig tuning, and you're exactly right, I set 8" of rake on Grenadine.  Regarding 
my 30-kt experience, it was on June 22nd last year - see archived wind graph at 
  
http://wx.iwindsurf.com/map#39.548,-105.08,14,1,!11170,7.  We had 
light-to-decent wind for our race at 6:30, so I was flying all that sail.  Then 
after the race the wind really piped up and I wanted to learn how Grenadine 
would behave under that press of canvas.  At 

Re: Stus-List Windlass placement

[G Collins via CnC-List]

Hi Jacob

Some of us have installed anchor windlasses in the anchor locker, if you like I 
can provide details.

Graham Collins
Secret Plans
C 35-III #11

On 2017-03-26 1:20 PM, jacob fuerst via CnC-List wrote:
Currently I do not have a windlass on the boat. The anchor locker and lid takes 
up the entire bow beyond the vberth.

In order to place the vertical rope to chain windlass on the deck requires 
placing it above the vberth and running a channel for the rode back into the 
locker. Additionally this would mean cutting into the liner inside.

There are holes in the bulkhead where there appears to have been a shelf bolted 
inside the anchor locker but going only to that seems very weak. I'm thinking 
now of reinforcing the bulkhead and sort of glassing it into the sides and then 
bolting a frame to set the windlass on and it would be fully contained within 
the locker.

Has anyone been through this or have suggestions or notes of caution?

Jacob Fuerst
'78 C 36
Ventura, CA
303-520-4669



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Re: Stus-List Mast Step Pitch & Helm Balance

[Steve Thomas via CnC-List]

Your math is better than mine!
(What was I thinking?)

Steve. 

 coltrek via CnC-List  wrote: 


Mine called for one degree of Rake. Which at the top of the Mast, equated to 
around 11 inches off of vertical


Regards,
Bill ColemanC 39

 Original message 
From: "Matthew L. Wolford via CnC-List"  
Date: 3/25/17  10:08  (GMT-05:00) 
To: cnc-list@cnc-list.com 
Cc: "Matthew L. Wolford"  
Subject: Re: Stus-List Mast Step Pitch & Helm Balance 




I had a similar question about rake before making a Spartite plug for the 
partners.  Unless you talk to Rob Ball or someone involved with 
design/construction, it would be difficult to figure out what C’s 
intentions were (assuming that’s what you want).  I’m guessing that you’ve 
already given the matter more consideration than the construction crew.
 
In my case, I eye-balled other comparable vintage C to see generally 
if there was much rake.  There appeared to be a little, but not much.  
I then talked to a local sailmaker, and together we looked at C’s original 
drawing for my boat to see if it showed any rake, which it did (again not 
much).  From this, we concluded that the drawing likely reflected what 
C intended.  Using the drawing, I calculated the amount of rake and, 
because in my case the mast was standing, I adjusted it to the amount of rake 
shown in the drawing (using a bucket of water hung from a halyard).  Seems 
to have worked – the helm feels about right to me.
 
Based on my experience, I’d find an old drawing and assume it’s more or 
less what C intended.
 
Good luck.


 

From: RANDY via CnC-List 
Sent: Saturday, March 25, 2017 3:11 AM
To: cnc-list 
Cc: RANDY 
Subject: Stus-List Mast Step Pitch & Helm 
Balance
 


Listers-
 
Seeking your input here.  I'm in the middle of the mast step rebuild 
project a la http://cncphotoalbum.com/doityourself/maststep/maststep.htm.  
Lots of pictures of the project at 
https://drive.google.com/open?id=0B-NqAxQ6JxFTSzRLbFo0NDl6U1E.
 
I'll be cutting new supports from laminated GPO-3 slabs Saturday night or 
Sunday morning.  Before installing the new supports, I have to decide on 
the elevation of the aft support.  Of course I took careful elevation 
measurements from the cabin sole before removing the original supports.  
But the question is, what was the original shape of the top of the aft 
support?
 
I believe the middle of Grenadine's aft support, under the mast step block, 
was compressed down from its original elevation due to a combination of 
weakness 
in the support and standing rigging tension (especially backstay).  Have a 
look at the pictures and you can clearly see what I mean, e.g. 
https://drive.google.com/open?id=0B-NqAxQ6JxFTLXZuXzd1T1pkR28.  This 
compression has the effect of pitching the mast step aft, thereby moving the 
masthead aft, thereby increasing weather helm (which I've definitely noticed 
under enough wind and sail - it was strong under full main and #2 genoa in 30 
kts, not surprisingly).
 
However I also believe that the original elevation of the aft support may 
have been carefully tuned for helm balance, prior to compression below the mast 
step block due to weak wood and standing rigging tension.
 
The reason this elevation question matters so much is because, using 
trigonometry, I can calculate the distance by which different elevations of the 
aft support will move the masthead forward or aft, which in turn will affect 
helm balance.  Each quarter inch of aft support elevation difference could 
move the masthead about three inches I believe.
 
The last picture 
(https://drive.google.com/open?id=0B-NqAxQ6JxFTU3hRNmZoMUU1MFk) in the Google 
Drive folder linked above shows the templates from which I'll cut the new 
supports, traced from the original supports removed from Grenadine's 
bilge.  I hypothesize that the dashed line I drew at the top of the aft 
support template may have been the aft support's original elevation.
 
I'm halfways tempted to split the difference and cut the new aft support to 
have that elevation.  Of course, I could be full of crap, because I tune 
the mast rake using the stays after all, which probably influences helm balance 
more than mast step pitch.  And of course I can control the sail selection 
and sail trim, which probably influence helm balance more than mast step 
pitch.  However, for a given sail selection close-hauled, with neither the 
backstay nor forestay over-tensioned, the mast step pitch would certainly 
influence the masthead position and therefore the combined center of effort of 
the sail plan.
 
What say ye?  Does anyone out there know if the top of the original 
aft mast step support on a 30-1 was flat all the way across, or did it come 
from 
the factory with a little elevation drop to tune helm balance?  I'll be 
committing an assumption about that to a GPO-3 slab with my jigsaw in the next 
day or two.
 
Thanks in advance,
Randy Stafford

Re: Stus-List Windlass placement

[Andrew Burton via CnC-List]

You really want the anchor rode to drop straight down from the windlass. If 
not, it will bind, which is no fun. Also be sure to read the manual carefully 
before you commit. There may be a minimum drop recommended. My anchor locker 
leaves just enough room aft of the hatch to mount the windlass on the deck. 
I'll try to send you some pics from my install.
Andy
C 40
Peregrine 


Andrew Burton
61 W Narragansett
Newport, RI 
USA02840

http://sites.google.com/site/andrewburtonyachtservices/
+401 965-5260

> On Mar 26, 2017, at 12:20, jacob fuerst via CnC-List  
> wrote:
> 
> Currently I do not have a windlass on the boat. The anchor locker and lid 
> takes up the entire bow beyond the vberth. 
> 
> In order to place the vertical rope to chain windlass on the deck requires 
> placing it above the vberth and running a channel for the rode back into the 
> locker. Additionally this would mean cutting into the liner inside.
> 
> There are holes in the bulkhead where there appears to have been a shelf 
> bolted inside the anchor locker but going only to that seems very weak. I'm 
> thinking now of reinforcing the bulkhead and sort of glassing it into the 
> sides and then bolting a frame to set the windlass on and it would be fully 
> contained within the locker. 
> 
> Has anyone been through this or have suggestions or notes of caution?
> 
> Jacob Fuerst
> '78 C 36
> Ventura, CA
> 303-520-4669
> ___
> 
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> to make a contribution to offset our costs, please go to:  
> https://www.paypal.me/stumurray
> 
> All Contributions are greatly appreciated!

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Re: Stus-List Fuel Tank Cleaning/Removal

[Edward Levert via CnC-List]

Brian:

I have a 1981 C 34. I replaced the original tank with a plastic tank by
Moeller. The old tank came out the seat hatch although I did cut the fill
pipe a bit. It was approximately 20 gallons. Measured the old one, went on
the Moeller web site and found what was as close to an exact match as you
could want. Took the model number and ordered through Amazon. The new tank
fit perfectly including with the fill pipe and vent being in basically the
same positions as the original. It was like Moeller copied a widely used
tank. Good luck.

Ed
C 34 Briarpatch
New Orleans


On Sun, Mar 26, 2017 at 10:52 AM Brian Morrison via CnC-List <
cnc-list@cnc-list.com> wrote:

> Hello,
>
> I have a 1979 C 34 with the original aluminum fuel tank. I've recently
> had some engine shutdown issues that I've traced to my fuel tank. Ideally I
> would like to replace the tank with a plastic one. That was recommended by
> the surveyor when I purchased the boat. The problem is access. The tank is
> 20 gallons and is too large to remove. On the other side, I would like to
> replace it with a similar size tank. The problems, 1. how to remove the
> original and 2. how to get the replacement in.
>
> The other option I'm looking at to address the fouling issue is to clean
> out the tank. I just read an article in Practical Sailor on using a power
> washer. Any suggestions on that method or others for cleaning out the crud
> in the bottom of the tank would be appreciated.
>
> Thank you.
>
> Brian
> S/V Rekofa
> 1979 C 34
> Fells Point, MD
>
> ___
>
> This list is supported by the generous donations of our members. If you
> wish to make a contribution to offset our costs, please go to:
> https://www.paypal.me/stumurray
>
> All Contributions are greatly appreciated!
>
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Stus-List Windlass placement

[jacob fuerst via CnC-List]

Currently I do not have a windlass on the boat. The anchor locker and lid
takes up the entire bow beyond the vberth.

In order to place the vertical rope to chain windlass on the deck requires
placing it above the vberth and running a channel for the rode back into
the locker. Additionally this would mean cutting into the liner inside.

There are holes in the bulkhead where there appears to have been a shelf
bolted inside the anchor locker but going only to that seems very weak. I'm
thinking now of reinforcing the bulkhead and sort of glassing it into the
sides and then bolting a frame to set the windlass on and it would be fully
contained within the locker.

Has anyone been through this or have suggestions or notes of caution?

Jacob Fuerst
'78 C 36
Ventura, CA
303-520-4669
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make a contribution to offset our costs, please go to:  
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Stus-List Fuel Tank Cleaning/Removal

[Brian Morrison via CnC-List]

Hello,

I have a 1979 C 34 with the original aluminum fuel tank. I've recently had 
some engine shutdown issues that I've traced to my fuel tank. Ideally I would 
like to replace the tank with a plastic one. That was recommended by the 
surveyor when I purchased the boat. The problem is access. The tank is 20 
gallons and is too large to remove. On the other side, I would like to replace 
it with a similar size tank. The problems, 1. how to remove the original and 2. 
how to get the replacement in. 

The other option I'm looking at to address the fouling issue is to clean out 
the tank. I just read an article in Practical Sailor on using a power washer. 
Any suggestions on that method or others for cleaning out the crud in the 
bottom of the tank would be appreciated. 

Thank you.

Brian
S/V Rekofa
1979 C 34
Fells Point, MD

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Re: Stus-List Mast Step Pitch & Helm Balance

[coltrek via CnC-List]

Mine called for one degree of Rake. Which at the top of the Mast, equated to 
around 11 inches off of vertical


Regards,
Bill ColemanC 39

 Original message 
From: "Matthew L. Wolford via CnC-List"  
Date: 3/25/17  10:08  (GMT-05:00) 
To: cnc-list@cnc-list.com 
Cc: "Matthew L. Wolford"  
Subject: Re: Stus-List Mast Step Pitch & Helm Balance 




I had a similar question about rake before making a Spartite plug for the 
partners.  Unless you talk to Rob Ball or someone involved with 
design/construction, it would be difficult to figure out what C’s 
intentions were (assuming that’s what you want).  I’m guessing that you’ve 
already given the matter more consideration than the construction crew.
 
In my case, I eye-balled other comparable vintage C to see generally 
if there was much rake.  There appeared to be a little, but not much.  
I then talked to a local sailmaker, and together we looked at C’s original 
drawing for my boat to see if it showed any rake, which it did (again not 
much).  From this, we concluded that the drawing likely reflected what 
C intended.  Using the drawing, I calculated the amount of rake and, 
because in my case the mast was standing, I adjusted it to the amount of rake 
shown in the drawing (using a bucket of water hung from a halyard).  Seems 
to have worked – the helm feels about right to me.
 
Based on my experience, I’d find an old drawing and assume it’s more or 
less what C intended.
 
Good luck.


 

From: RANDY via CnC-List 
Sent: Saturday, March 25, 2017 3:11 AM
To: cnc-list 
Cc: RANDY 
Subject: Stus-List Mast Step Pitch & Helm 
Balance
 


Listers-
 
Seeking your input here.  I'm in the middle of the mast step rebuild 
project a la http://cncphotoalbum.com/doityourself/maststep/maststep.htm.  
Lots of pictures of the project at 
https://drive.google.com/open?id=0B-NqAxQ6JxFTSzRLbFo0NDl6U1E.
 
I'll be cutting new supports from laminated GPO-3 slabs Saturday night or 
Sunday morning.  Before installing the new supports, I have to decide on 
the elevation of the aft support.  Of course I took careful elevation 
measurements from the cabin sole before removing the original supports.  
But the question is, what was the original shape of the top of the aft 
support?
 
I believe the middle of Grenadine's aft support, under the mast step block, 
was compressed down from its original elevation due to a combination of 
weakness 
in the support and standing rigging tension (especially backstay).  Have a 
look at the pictures and you can clearly see what I mean, e.g. 
https://drive.google.com/open?id=0B-NqAxQ6JxFTLXZuXzd1T1pkR28.  This 
compression has the effect of pitching the mast step aft, thereby moving the 
masthead aft, thereby increasing weather helm (which I've definitely noticed 
under enough wind and sail - it was strong under full main and #2 genoa in 30 
kts, not surprisingly).
 
However I also believe that the original elevation of the aft support may 
have been carefully tuned for helm balance, prior to compression below the mast 
step block due to weak wood and standing rigging tension.
 
The reason this elevation question matters so much is because, using 
trigonometry, I can calculate the distance by which different elevations of the 
aft support will move the masthead forward or aft, which in turn will affect 
helm balance.  Each quarter inch of aft support elevation difference could 
move the masthead about three inches I believe.
 
The last picture 
(https://drive.google.com/open?id=0B-NqAxQ6JxFTU3hRNmZoMUU1MFk) in the Google 
Drive folder linked above shows the templates from which I'll cut the new 
supports, traced from the original supports removed from Grenadine's 
bilge.  I hypothesize that the dashed line I drew at the top of the aft 
support template may have been the aft support's original elevation.
 
I'm halfways tempted to split the difference and cut the new aft support to 
have that elevation.  Of course, I could be full of crap, because I tune 
the mast rake using the stays after all, which probably influences helm balance 
more than mast step pitch.  And of course I can control the sail selection 
and sail trim, which probably influence helm balance more than mast step 
pitch.  However, for a given sail selection close-hauled, with neither the 
backstay nor forestay over-tensioned, the mast step pitch would certainly 
influence the masthead position and therefore the combined center of effort of 
the sail plan.
 
What say ye?  Does anyone out there know if the top of the original 
aft mast step support on a 30-1 was flat all the way across, or did it come 
from 
the factory with a little elevation drop to tune helm balance?  I'll be 
committing an assumption about that to a GPO-3 slab with my jigsaw in the next 
day or two.
 
Thanks in advance,
Randy Stafford
S/V Grenadine
C 30-1 #7
Ken Caryl, CO


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This list is supported by 
the 

Re: Stus-List Options for getting rid of sails

[Joel Aronson via CnC-List]

Re-sail in Annapolis will give you a duffel bag.

Joel
On Sun, Mar 26, 2017 at 7:02 AM John and Maryann Read via CnC-List <
cnc-list@cnc-list.com> wrote:

> www.seabags.com
>
> If your sails are large enough they will make you a tote bag for free.  We
> had a great experience with them
>
>
> John and Maryann
> Legacy III
> 1982 C 34
> Noank, CT
> -Original Message-
> From: CnC-List [mailto:cnc-list-boun...@cnc-list.com] On Behalf Of Tom
> Buscaglia via CnC-List
> Sent: Sunday, March 26, 2017 12:52 AM
> To: cnc-list@cnc-list.com
> Cc: Tom Buscaglia
> Subject: Stus-List Options for getting rid of sails
>
> Sailvation Army?
>
> Typoed from my iPhone
>
> Tom Buscaglia
> Alera 1990 C 37+/40
> Vashon Island WA
> O 206.463.9200
> C 305.409.3660
> Skype - thombusc
>
>
>
> > On Mar 25, 2017, at 8:03 PM, cnc-list-requ...@cnc-list.com wrote:
> >
> > Message: 7
> > Date: Sun, 26 Mar 2017 02:26:16 +
> > From: Kevin Paxton 
> > To: cnc-list@cnc-list.com
> > Subject: Stus-List Options for getting rid of sails
> > Message-ID:
> >
> > 
> > Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8"
> >
> > Hey everyone,
> > I have a number of head sails that I need to get rid of. I was
> > wondering if any one knew of other consignment or places to sell used
> > sails to. I'm? in the Chesapeake Bay area and know of Bacon's. I was
> > actually there today having them take a look at them. But I was
> > wondering if there was anywhere else to get a second opinion on value
> > or a better deal than just 50% of sale price.
> >
> > A couple that need to be disposed of that aren't useful anymore as well.
> > Anywhere that may recycle or something besides just throwing away?
> >
> > Thanks
> > Kevin
> > -- next part -- An HTML atta
>
> ___
>
> This list is supported by the generous donations of our members. If you
> wish
> to make a contribution to offset our costs, please go to:
> https://www.paypal.me/stumurray
>
> All Contributions are greatly appreciated!
>
>
> ___
>
> This list is supported by the generous donations of our members. If you
> wish to make a contribution to offset our costs, please go to:
> https://www.paypal.me/stumurray
>
> All Contributions are greatly appreciated!
>
-- 
Joel
301 541 8551
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Re: Stus-List Options for getting rid of sails

[John and Maryann Read via CnC-List]

www.seabags.com

If your sails are large enough they will make you a tote bag for free.  We
had a great experience with them


John and Maryann
Legacy III
1982 C 34
Noank, CT
-Original Message-
From: CnC-List [mailto:cnc-list-boun...@cnc-list.com] On Behalf Of Tom
Buscaglia via CnC-List
Sent: Sunday, March 26, 2017 12:52 AM
To: cnc-list@cnc-list.com
Cc: Tom Buscaglia
Subject: Stus-List Options for getting rid of sails

Sailvation Army?

Typoed from my iPhone

Tom Buscaglia
Alera 1990 C 37+/40
Vashon Island WA
O 206.463.9200
C 305.409.3660
Skype - thombusc



> On Mar 25, 2017, at 8:03 PM, cnc-list-requ...@cnc-list.com wrote:
> 
> Message: 7
> Date: Sun, 26 Mar 2017 02:26:16 +
> From: Kevin Paxton 
> To: cnc-list@cnc-list.com
> Subject: Stus-List Options for getting rid of sails
> Message-ID:
>
> 
> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8"
> 
> Hey everyone,
> I have a number of head sails that I need to get rid of. I was 
> wondering if any one knew of other consignment or places to sell used 
> sails to. I'm? in the Chesapeake Bay area and know of Bacon's. I was 
> actually there today having them take a look at them. But I was 
> wondering if there was anywhere else to get a second opinion on value 
> or a better deal than just 50% of sale price.
> 
> A couple that need to be disposed of that aren't useful anymore as well.
> Anywhere that may recycle or something besides just throwing away?
> 
> Thanks
> Kevin
> -- next part -- An HTML atta

___

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to make a contribution to offset our costs, please go to:
https://www.paypal.me/stumurray

All Contributions are greatly appreciated!


___

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make a contribution to offset our costs, please go to:  
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All Contributions are greatly appreciated!

Re: Stus-List Mast Step Pitch & Helm Balance

[RANDY via CnC-List]

Thanks Lee, you haven't ruined my day at all. I do race my 30-1 and have a 
blast doing it. Her mast butt does appear to have some rocker. But 
unfortunately I don't have any information about how much (if any) pre-bend her 
main requires. I'd think pre-bend would be easier to achieve on a fractional 
rig than a masthead rig, but I could see how you might be able to get some on a 
masthead rig by a combination of mast butt positioning and stay tension. 

Cheers, 
Randy 

- Original Message -

From: "Lee via CnC-List"  
To: "cnc-list"  
Cc: "Lee"  
Sent: Saturday, March 25, 2017 11:50:08 PM 
Subject: Re: Stus-List Mast Step Pitch & Helm Balance 

Randy,sorry to complicate your project but there are a couple more 
considerations depending on just how involved and precise you want to be, If 
you intend to race your 30-1 {they are excellent for such} you will want to 
consider initial mast bend. If so the shape of the mast butt can ease the 
process by putting some rocker on the butt so as to control where mast 
compression puts pressure, fore or aft , or by shimming to achieve the same 
effect You can check the butt with a woodworking square.Your sailmaker can 
assist to determine how much prebend to use.Hope I didn't ruin your day. 
Lee c 35-3 cb 
Blue Point NY 
-Original Message- 
From: RANDY via CnC-List  
To: cnc-list  
Cc: RANDY  
Sent: Sat, Mar 25, 2017 1:27 pm 
Subject: Re: Stus-List Mast Step Pitch & Helm Balance 

Thank you all for the excellent responses. 

Matthew, figuring out what C's intentions were, for aft mast step elevation, 
is what I'm trying to do. I assume they intended for the mast to perfectly 
plumb when the boat is sitting on her designed waterline in perfectly calm 
water and calm air. Then rig tuners would set the rake from there. Of course, 
those aren't the conditions I'm working in, so it's all guesswork (levels are 
useless with the boat on the trailer). 

Michael, interesting point about heel at the foot of the mast. I'll check that 
out today. I assumed the foot of my mast is flat, and makes contact all the way 
around the mast box. I agree the side-to-side level is critical - from rig 
tuning last year, I believe Grenadine's is off (the aft end of the mast block 
lists to port, requiring more halyard tension to touch the starboard rail than 
the port rail, and I couldn't correct that via upper shroud tension without 
bowing the mast). That should get corrected by the new aft support, assuming I 
cut it and install it correctly. 

Rick thanks for the reminder about the owner's manual rig tuning instructions 
cautioning against forward rake. I follow those instructions to the letter for 
rig tuning, and you're exactly right, I set 8" of rake on Grenadine. Regarding 
my 30-kt experience, it was on June 22nd last year - see archived wind graph at 
http://wx.iwindsurf.com/map#39.548,-105.08,14,1,!11170,7 . We had 
light-to-decent wind for our race at 6:30, so I was flying all that sail. Then 
after the race the wind really piped up and I wanted to learn how Grenadine 
would behave under that press of canvas. At the moment of that 30-kt (true) 
gust just after 8:00, I was on starboard tack close reach, trimmed for that 
point of sail, going 7.6 knots according to GPS (with fixed 2-blade prop even), 
with five people on the rail, and my genoa tore before I got a rail in the 
water. That's how stiff a 30-1 is. Of course I had a hell of a lot of weather 
helm in those conditions, and I was within about an inch or another degree of 
heel of burying the rail. I've yet to learn what it takes to bury a rail on a 
30-1. If Grenadine had had a folding prop at the time, I believe she could have 
touched 8 knots. Will find out this year :) 

Given all these great responses, I think I'll split the difference and cut the 
aft support to the elevation indicated by the dashed line in 
https://drive.google.com/open?id=0B-NqAxQ6JxFTU3hRNmZoMUU1MFk . Thanks again 
everyone. 

Cheers, 
Randy 


From: "Rick Brass via CnC-List"  
To: "cnc-list"  
Cc: "Rick Brass" < rickbr...@earthlink.net > 
Sent: Saturday, March 25, 2017 9:27:38 AM 
Subject: Re: Stus-List Mast Step Pitch & Helm Balance 

Randy; 
I could have sworn that I have seen a table that lists the initial mast rake 
for various C models built in the 70’s, but I’m not able to find it. 
The rig tuning information on the Photo Album, and the information in the 
owner’s manuals that came with my 25 mk1 and my 38 mk2 all show the same 
information about setting up the mast rake: 
On a 24, the target for initial rake is 6” measured at the gooseneck. For the 
38, the target is 10”. Looking up the I dimensions and doing a little math says 
the initial target for your 30-1 would be 8” of rake. But the instructions 
indicate (and this could have changed 

Re: Stus-List Mast Step Pitch & Helm Balance

[RANDY via CnC-List]

Thanks Josh, I appreciate the point. The fact is that Grenadine's rig is 
already changed from the original intended geometry because of the C 
construction flaw of using plywood mast step supports. The 44-year-old supports 
that came out of Grenadine's bilge are incredibly fragile - delaminating, 
splintering, etc. It's a wonder they held the mast up. It appears that 
deterioration of the aft support depressed the aft end of the mast step by 1/4" 
to 1/2", and tilted the mast to port enough to be noticeable during 
side-to-side rig tuning. If anything my efforts will hopefully restore the 
originally-intended geometry. The elevation of the forward support won't change 
- it was in better shape than the aft support. The elevation of the aft support 
will be about 1/4" higher than current, which I believe should restore it to 
the original elevation as best I can guess. 

Cheers, 
Randy 

- Original Message -

From: "Josh Muckley via CnC-List"  
To: "C List"  
Cc: "Josh Muckley"  
Sent: Saturday, March 25, 2017 12:29:31 PM 
Subject: Re: Stus-List Mast Step Pitch & Helm Balance 

Be very careful before changing anything with the original geometry. There are 
a lot of factors involved. The height of the maststep will affect the height at 
the partners (deck) and every stay, not just the headstay. There are deck ties 
which hold the mast to the deck, they will be good guides as to the appropriate 
height of the step. The mast typically pivots at the partners so moving the 
foot makes a big change to the head and shrouds. Our rigs are not typically 
swept but these factors are even more exasperated on swept spreader rigs. 

Josh Muckley 
S/V Sea Hawk 
1989 C 37+ 
Solomons, MD 

On Mar 25, 2017 3:12 AM, "RANDY via CnC-List" < cnc-list@cnc-list.com > wrote: 



Listers- 

Seeking your input here. I'm in the middle of the mast step rebuild project a 
la http://cncphotoalbum.com/doityourself/maststep/maststep.htm . Lots of 
pictures of the project at 
https://drive.google.com/open?id=0B-NqAxQ6JxFTSzRLbFo0NDl6U1E . 

I'll be cutting new supports from laminated GPO-3 slabs Saturday night or 
Sunday morning. Before installing the new supports, I have to decide on the 
elevation of the aft support. Of course I took careful elevation measurements 
from the cabin sole before removing the original supports. But the question is, 
what was the original shape of the top of the aft support? 

I believe the middle of Grenadine's aft support, under the mast step block, was 
compressed down from its original elevation due to a combination of weakness in 
the support and standing rigging tension (especially backstay). Have a look at 
the pictures and you can clearly see what I mean, e.g. 
https://drive.google.com/open?id=0B-NqAxQ6JxFTLXZuXzd1T1pkR28 . This 
compression has the effect of pitching the mast step aft, thereby moving the 
masthead aft, thereby increasing weather helm (which I've definitely noticed 
under enough wind and sail - it was strong under full main and #2 genoa in 30 
kts, not surprisingly). 

However I also believe that the original elevation of the aft support may have 
been carefully tuned for helm balance, prior to compression below the mast step 
block due to weak wood and standing rigging tension. 

The reason this elevation question matters so much is because, using 
trigonometry, I can calculate the distance by which different elevations of the 
aft support will move the masthead forward or aft, which in turn will affect 
helm balance. Each quarter inch of aft support elevation difference could move 
the masthead about three inches I believe. 

The last picture ( 
https://drive.google.com/open?id=0B-NqAxQ6JxFTU3hRNmZoMUU1MFk ) in the Google 
Drive folder linked above shows the templates from which I'll cut the new 
supports, traced from the original supports removed from Grenadine's bilge. I 
hypothesize that the dashed line I drew at the top of the aft support template 
may have been the aft support's original elevation. 

I'm halfways tempted to split the difference and cut the new aft support to 
have that elevation. Of course, I could be full of crap, because I tune the 
mast rake using the stays after all, which probably influences helm balance 
more than mast step pitch. And of course I can control the sail selection and 
sail trim, which probably influence helm balance more than mast step pitch. 
However, for a given sail selection close-hauled, with neither the backstay nor 
forestay over-tensioned, the mast step pitch would certainly influence the 
masthead position and therefore the combined center of effort of the sail plan. 

What say ye? Does anyone out there know if the top of the original aft mast 
step support on a 30-1 was flat all the way across, or did it come from the 
factory with a little elevation drop to tune helm balance? I'll be committing 
an assumption about that to a GPO-3 slab with my jigsaw in the 

Re: Stus-List Mast Step Pitch & Helm Balance

[RANDY via CnC-List]

Thanks Michael I will use your technique when tuning my rig side-to-side this 
spring. 

Regarding the mast butt, Grenadine's does appear able to rock fore-and-aft in 
the mast box - I checked that out today. Couldn't tell exactly how; the mast 
bottom seems flat. But it definitely rocks in the box. Interesting idea to move 
the butt fore-and-aft to adjust helm balance. Seems easier to do that with rake 
via backstay & forestay tension. Last year I wasn't paying close enough 
attention when we stepped the mast, and the butt wasn't centered fore-and-aft. 
This year I plan to center it at stepping time, and tune from there. I'm not 
interested in the exciting effects of lee helm :) 

Cheers, 
Randy 

- Original Message -

From: "Michael Brown via CnC-List"  
To: "cnc-list"  
Cc: "Michael Brown"  
Sent: Saturday, March 25, 2017 12:27:45 PM 
Subject: Re: Stus-List Mast Step Pitch & Helm Balance 

> requiring more halyard tension to touch the starboard rail than the port rail 

When I am centering the mast side to side I use the main halyard, a stiff 
bungee cord 
and a tape measure. On either side to start with I hook the bungee to the 
halyard shackle 
and through the toe rail, then tighten the halyard until I get significant 
force on the bungee. 

I measure from the top of the toe rail to a point on the halyard shackle, then 
move the 
set to the other side and measure again. Half of the difference is how far I 
have to adjust 
to, and the force of the bungee is more consistent then me trying to guess how 
hard to pull. 

You can get pretty close without having to switch sides by calculating the 
target distance. 
The boat may shift a bit, the mast step compress etc so a switch at the end is 
required. 


The mast rake advice in the C manual is a good starting point. You do want to 
confirm 
it is right by sailing close hauled in 10 - 12 kts TWS and getting slight 
weather helm. How 
much is a preference but if you are fighting the wheel it is slowing the boat 
down. I have 
an adjustable forestay ( normal turnbuckle ) so I can dial it in without having 
to move the 
mast butt. I think people leave a small amount or weather helm so that if you 
do get 
surprised by a gust it may round you up a bit and help depower. Uncontrolled 
lee helm 
will force you down and make it harder to steer, along with other exciting 
effects. 


I see from your posting that the aft girder has significant "wings" which will 
extend side 
to side in the boat. When I rebuilt Windburn's mast step I had similar smaller 
ones but 
was not able to fit the piece in place with them. If the girder was only 1/4" 
thick like a 
cardboard template it would go in but the thicker part did not. 

Despite having snow this morning I know spring is coming ... 

Michael Brown 
Windburn 
C 30-1 


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