Re: Stus-List "Maritime Documentation Center"

[Matthew L. Wolford via CnC-List]

Correction: the decal price went up this year to $28.24.

From: Ron Ricci via CnC-List 
Sent: Wednesday, January 24, 2018 8:22 PM
To: cnc-list@cnc-list.com 
Cc: Ron Ricci 
Subject: Re: Stus-List "Maritime Documentation Center"

I also received the notice.  Somehow, the USCG Documentation Center enables 
these guys by providing mailing the list of documented boats.  They are taking 
advantage of an opportunity created when the $26.00 charge was created.  You’ll 
notice that before the government started trying to ‘cover’ their costs, there 
was no fee and no annoying “Maritime Documentation Center”.  While $26 is a 
small number considering what it costs to own a boat, it is a lot to process 
the paperwork.  Our government seems no better than these guys.  

Regards,

Ron

Ron Ricci

S/V Patriot

C 37+

Bristol, RI

(978) 877-0369

ron.ri...@1968.usna.com

 


 

From: CnC-List [mailto:cnc-list-boun...@cnc-list.com] On Behalf Of Bill Coleman 
via CnC-List
Sent: Wednesday, January 24, 2018 10:38 AM
To: cnc-list@cnc-list.com
Cc: Bill Coleman
Subject: Stus-List "Maritime Documentation Center"

 

Just got my EARLY supposed Documentation Renewal from the "Maritime 
Documentation Center"

 

I think the USCG must have taken heed of all the complaints, as these people 
have really toned down their ‘Renewal’

There is no amount to pay, and now little bits in there like , This is a 
courtesy notice,  This is not an invoice,  you are under no obligation to pay, 
etc – 

Things that were not in their notice in past years.

 

I am sure they will still snag some people who are either not paying attention, 
or are too busy to notice.

 

Bill Coleman

C 39 Erie, PA

   




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Re: Stus-List "Maritime Documentation Center"

[Matthew L. Wolford via CnC-List]

I also need to purchase a decal from the Department of Homeland Security to 
sail across Lake Erie ($27.50).  No paperwork to process other than 
self-generated to collect the fee.  And of course the Commonwealth of 
Pennsylvania needs its registration fee because being Federally documented is 
not good enough.

From: Ron Ricci via CnC-List 
Sent: Wednesday, January 24, 2018 8:22 PM
To: cnc-list@cnc-list.com 
Cc: Ron Ricci 
Subject: Re: Stus-List "Maritime Documentation Center"

I also received the notice.  Somehow, the USCG Documentation Center enables 
these guys by providing mailing the list of documented boats.  They are taking 
advantage of an opportunity created when the $26.00 charge was created.  You’ll 
notice that before the government started trying to ‘cover’ their costs, there 
was no fee and no annoying “Maritime Documentation Center”.  While $26 is a 
small number considering what it costs to own a boat, it is a lot to process 
the paperwork.  Our government seems no better than these guys.  

Regards,

Ron

Ron Ricci

S/V Patriot

C 37+

Bristol, RI

(978) 877-0369

ron.ri...@1968.usna.com

 


 

From: CnC-List [mailto:cnc-list-boun...@cnc-list.com] On Behalf Of Bill Coleman 
via CnC-List
Sent: Wednesday, January 24, 2018 10:38 AM
To: cnc-list@cnc-list.com
Cc: Bill Coleman
Subject: Stus-List "Maritime Documentation Center"

 

Just got my EARLY supposed Documentation Renewal from the "Maritime 
Documentation Center"

 

I think the USCG must have taken heed of all the complaints, as these people 
have really toned down their ‘Renewal’

There is no amount to pay, and now little bits in there like , This is a 
courtesy notice,  This is not an invoice,  you are under no obligation to pay, 
etc – 

Things that were not in their notice in past years.

 

I am sure they will still snag some people who are either not paying attention, 
or are too busy to notice.

 

Bill Coleman

C 39 Erie, PA

   




___

Thanks everyone for supporting this list with your contributions.  Each and 
every one is greatly appreciated.  If you want to support the list - use PayPal 
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every one is greatly appreciated.  If you want to support the list - use PayPal 
to send contribution --   https://www.paypal.me/stumurray

Stus-List Force 10 Galley Range - Thermostat

[Ron Ricci via CnC-List]

Patriot has a 1991 version of a 3-burner Force 10 propane stove with oven.
The temperature control on the oven is totally manual.  New versions of the
same stove (Galley Gourmet Range) have a thermostatically controlled oven.

 

The newer stove looks pretty much the same as the older stove.  it seemed
that newer stove's oven control valve could be installed on the older stove.
I contacted Force 10 and they said this had never be done and the new valve
would not fit on the older stove.

 

Has anyone tried adding the new Force 10 control valve or done anything to
similar?  

 

Regards,

Ron

Ron Ricci

S/V Patriot

C 37+

Bristol, RI

(978) 877-0369

  ron.ri...@1968.usna.com

 

 

___

Thanks everyone for supporting this list with your contributions.  Each and 
every one is greatly appreciated.  If you want to support the list - use PayPal 
to send contribution --   https://www.paypal.me/stumurray

Re: Stus-List "Maritime Documentation Center"

[Ron Ricci via CnC-List]

I also received the notice.  Somehow, the USCG Documentation Center enables 
these guys by providing mailing the list of documented boats.  They are taking 
advantage of an opportunity created when the $26.00 charge was created.  You’ll 
notice that before the government started trying to ‘cover’ their costs, there 
was no fee and no annoying “Maritime Documentation Center”.  While $26 is a 
small number considering what it costs to own a boat, it is a lot to process 
the paperwork.  Our government seems no better than these guys.  

Regards,

Ron

Ron Ricci

S/V Patriot

C 37+

Bristol, RI

(978) 877-0369

  ron.ri...@1968.usna.com

 

 

From: CnC-List [mailto:cnc-list-boun...@cnc-list.com] On Behalf Of Bill Coleman 
via CnC-List
Sent: Wednesday, January 24, 2018 10:38 AM
To: cnc-list@cnc-list.com
Cc: Bill Coleman
Subject: Stus-List "Maritime Documentation Center"

 

Just got my EARLY supposed Documentation Renewal from the "Maritime 
Documentation Center"

 

I think the USCG must have taken heed of all the complaints, as these people 
have really toned down their ‘Renewal’

There is no amount to pay, and now little bits in there like , This is a 
courtesy notice,  This is not an invoice,  you are under no obligation to pay, 
etc – 

Things that were not in their notice in past years.

 

I am sure they will still snag some people who are either not paying attention, 
or are too busy to notice.

 

Bill Coleman

C 39 Erie, PAanimated_favicon1

 

___

Thanks everyone for supporting this list with your contributions.  Each and 
every one is greatly appreciated.  If you want to support the list - use PayPal 
to send contribution --   https://www.paypal.me/stumurray

Stus-List Edson wheel

[colin binkley via CnC-List]

Similar concern for me in the past. Found an idler had come loose from its 
fastening. Have mate turn wheel as you closely observe all of the system. Mine 
is center cockpit, 

Colin
Lindsey Layne 40C #3
Sent from my iPhone

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Re: Stus-List Edson wheel chain jumping links?

[Bruce Whitmore via CnC-List]

That even makes sense from a logical perspective.  The knot does not line up 
vertically with the keyway in the wheel & center hub.  So, if one has it lined 
up on one side, and then you take the wheel off and install it from the other 
direction, viola!  It's way off!
Ugh.  And to think I'd be taking all apart thinking I had a major issue - How 
long would I have been chasing that gremlin?  :0

Now to verify the symptoms... 
 Bruce Whitmore

(847) 404-5092 (mobile)
bwhitm...@sbcglobal.net


  From: Bruce Whitmore via CnC-List 
 To: "cnc-list@cnc-list.com"  
Cc: Bruce Whitmore 
 Sent: Wednesday, January 24, 2018 6:35 PM
 Subject: Re: Stus-List Edson wheel chain jumping links?
   
Whoa!  That might be it!
Not someone messing with me - I've been having the teak refinished, and the 
wheel had been removed for that work and was laying on the cabin top.  So, I 
could have easily put it on the "wrong" side out.
If that's it, I can breath much easier!
That could also account for the first time it was "off" after initial 
adjustment...

I'll still need to check for rust on the plate, but that gives me immediate 
breathing room.
If you're right, I owe another $50 to Stu! Bruce Whitmore

(847) 404-5092 (mobile)
bwhitm...@sbcglobal.net


  From: Dennis C. via CnC-List 
 To: CnClist  
Cc: Dennis C. 
 Sent: Wednesday, January 24, 2018 5:00 PM
 Subject: Re: Stus-List Edson wheel chain jumping links?
  
If I take the wheel off and rotate it 180 degrees, does that create the same 
deviation?  I routinely change between my 32 inch (cruising) and 36 inch 
(racing) wheels.  If I don't put the wheel on with the correct side forward, it 
is always off a spoke or so. 
Could someone be messing with you?
Dennis C.Touche' 35-1 #83Mandeville, LA
On Jan 24, 2018 12:40 PM, "Bruce Whitmore via CnC-List"  
wrote:

The turks head wraps across a spoke, so no, it can't be moved.  

good thought though
Bruce Whitmore

(847) 404-5092 (mobile)
bwhitm...@sbcglobal.net


  From: "Hoyt, Mike via CnC-List" 
 To: "cnc-list@cnc-list.com"  
Cc: "Hoyt, Mike" 
 Sent: Wednesday, January 24, 2018 2:35 PM
 Subject: Re: Stus-List Edson wheel chain jumping links?
   
Any chance that the Turks Head is moving?    ..  or that someone is not moving 
it just for fun?    From: CnC-List [mailto:cnc-list-bounces@cnc- list.com]On 
Behalf Of Bruce Whitmore via CnC-List
Sent: Wednesday, January 24, 2018 12:39 PM
To: cnc-list@cnc-list.com
Cc: Bruce Whitmore
Subject: Re: Stus-List Edson wheel chain jumping links?    And weirdly, the 
steering is very precise, with no sloppiness underway, and it happens when 
we're OFF the boat!    On a side note, when we leave the boat, I tie off the 
wheel just in case there is more current than the wheel brake can control.  
This is done to keep the wheel from turning to the stops, and to prevent wheel 
brake wear. Our slip is in shallow water, and though we have never noticed the 
rudder touching bottom when we sleep on the boat, the keel stub will touch 
during low tides.  Thankfully, we have a soft sand bottom.    Maybe the boat 
settles at low tide or a current comes by, pushes the rudder against the line 
ties, causes slack in the chain/wire rope, causing the chain to jump?  I have 
not tried to look at how slack the cable becomes when I hit the rudder stop.    
The rust, however will have to be dealt with sooner rather than later...    Any 
further thoughts would be appreciated.   Bruce Whitmore

(847) 404-5092 (mobile)
bwhitm...@sbcglobal.net    From: Josh Muckley via CnC-List 

To: C List 
Cc: Josh Muckley 
Sent: Wednesday, January 24, 2018 11:20 AM
Subject: Re: Stus-List Edson wheel chain jumping links?    I can pretty much 
assure you that there is rust.  What I can't explain is why the problem comes 
and goes and at such a prescribed amount.  The detrimental rust would also 
likely cause a looseness in the wheel and cables which would be quite 
perceptible.    Josh          On Jan 24, 2018 11:12 AM, "Bruce Whitmore via 
CnC-List"  wrote: Per Chuck's previous comments, the 
radial wheel has a keyway and key, so I don't think it can slip.  Similarly, 
the helm wheel has a keyway and key.  I've tightened the idler pully plate 
bolts, but I suspect there is rust going on under there, which will mean a full 
disassembly.    Sigh...    Bruce Whitmore

(847) 404-5092 (mobile)
bwhitm...@sbcglobal.net    From: Michael Brown via CnC-List 

To: cnc-list@cnc-list.com
Cc: Michael Brown 
Sent: Wednesday, January 24, 2018 11:06 AM
Subject: Re: Stus-List Edson wheel chain jumping links?    If the radial wheel 
was slipping on the rudder post it could cause that issue.
Maybe use 

Re: Stus-List Edson wheel chain jumping links?

[Bruce Whitmore via CnC-List]

Whoa!  That might be it!
Not someone messing with me - I've been having the teak refinished, and the 
wheel had been removed for that work and was laying on the cabin top.  So, I 
could have easily put it on the "wrong" side out.
If that's it, I can breath much easier!
That could also account for the first time it was "off" after initial 
adjustment...

I'll still need to check for rust on the plate, but that gives me immediate 
breathing room.
If you're right, I owe another $50 to Stu! Bruce Whitmore

(847) 404-5092 (mobile)
bwhitm...@sbcglobal.net


  From: Dennis C. via CnC-List 
 To: CnClist  
Cc: Dennis C. 
 Sent: Wednesday, January 24, 2018 5:00 PM
 Subject: Re: Stus-List Edson wheel chain jumping links?
   
If I take the wheel off and rotate it 180 degrees, does that create the same 
deviation?  I routinely change between my 32 inch (cruising) and 36 inch 
(racing) wheels.  If I don't put the wheel on with the correct side forward, it 
is always off a spoke or so. 
Could someone be messing with you?
Dennis C.Touche' 35-1 #83Mandeville, LA
On Jan 24, 2018 12:40 PM, "Bruce Whitmore via CnC-List"  
wrote:

The turks head wraps across a spoke, so no, it can't be moved.  

good thought though
Bruce Whitmore

(847) 404-5092 (mobile)
bwhitm...@sbcglobal.net


  From: "Hoyt, Mike via CnC-List" 
 To: "cnc-list@cnc-list.com"  
Cc: "Hoyt, Mike" 
 Sent: Wednesday, January 24, 2018 2:35 PM
 Subject: Re: Stus-List Edson wheel chain jumping links?
   
Any chance that the Turks Head is moving?    ..  or that someone is not moving 
it just for fun?    From: CnC-List [mailto:cnc-list-bounces@cnc- list.com]On 
Behalf Of Bruce Whitmore via CnC-List
Sent: Wednesday, January 24, 2018 12:39 PM
To: cnc-list@cnc-list.com
Cc: Bruce Whitmore
Subject: Re: Stus-List Edson wheel chain jumping links?    And weirdly, the 
steering is very precise, with no sloppiness underway, and it happens when 
we're OFF the boat!    On a side note, when we leave the boat, I tie off the 
wheel just in case there is more current than the wheel brake can control.  
This is done to keep the wheel from turning to the stops, and to prevent wheel 
brake wear. Our slip is in shallow water, and though we have never noticed the 
rudder touching bottom when we sleep on the boat, the keel stub will touch 
during low tides.  Thankfully, we have a soft sand bottom.    Maybe the boat 
settles at low tide or a current comes by, pushes the rudder against the line 
ties, causes slack in the chain/wire rope, causing the chain to jump?  I have 
not tried to look at how slack the cable becomes when I hit the rudder stop.    
The rust, however will have to be dealt with sooner rather than later...    Any 
further thoughts would be appreciated.   Bruce Whitmore

(847) 404-5092 (mobile)
bwhitm...@sbcglobal.net    From: Josh Muckley via CnC-List 

To: C List 
Cc: Josh Muckley 
Sent: Wednesday, January 24, 2018 11:20 AM
Subject: Re: Stus-List Edson wheel chain jumping links?    I can pretty much 
assure you that there is rust.  What I can't explain is why the problem comes 
and goes and at such a prescribed amount.  The detrimental rust would also 
likely cause a looseness in the wheel and cables which would be quite 
perceptible.    Josh          On Jan 24, 2018 11:12 AM, "Bruce Whitmore via 
CnC-List"  wrote: Per Chuck's previous comments, the 
radial wheel has a keyway and key, so I don't think it can slip.  Similarly, 
the helm wheel has a keyway and key.  I've tightened the idler pully plate 
bolts, but I suspect there is rust going on under there, which will mean a full 
disassembly.    Sigh...    Bruce Whitmore

(847) 404-5092 (mobile)
bwhitm...@sbcglobal.net    From: Michael Brown via CnC-List 

To: cnc-list@cnc-list.com
Cc: Michael Brown 
Sent: Wednesday, January 24, 2018 11:06 AM
Subject: Re: Stus-List Edson wheel chain jumping links?    If the radial wheel 
was slipping on the rudder post it could cause that issue.
Maybe use a sharpie and put a line down the rudder post and onto the radial 
wheel.
20º is not much movement, you may require a fine line.

Michael Brown
Windburn
C 30-1

  
Date: Wed, 24 Jan 2018 01:54:12 + (UTC)
From: Bruce Whitmore 

Hello all, 

OK, I think I have a weird thing going here... 
I have adjusted the wheel to center the turks head knot straight up when the 
wheel is centered.? I got it all nice & straight a few weeks ago, and came back 
to the boat to find it about 20 degrees off to port.? By the way, were talking 
about 20% off on the wheel, not 20% of rudder. ? After installing my autopilot, 
I again adjusted it, this time getting the cables set to approximately the same 
amount of adjustment on each side to the 

Re: Stus-List Edson wheel chain jumping links?

[Chuck Gilchrest via CnC-List]

The sprocket pin ain’t coming out without a drift and a big hammer.  It just 
won’t happen.  And if it was partially sticking out, the wheel won’t turn.
Chuck G.

Sent from my iPhone

> On Jan 24, 2018, at 4:50 PM, Doug Allardyce via CnC-List 
>  wrote:
> 
> Since you are checking everything, check the tapered pin that holds the 
> sprocket to the  pedestal shaft.
>  
> Doug Allardyce 
> ~_/)~
> 
> -Original Message-
> From: CnC-List [mailto:cnc-list-boun...@cnc-list.com]On Behalf Of Jeffrey 
> Nelson via CnC-List
> Sent: Wednesday, January 24, 2018 4:21 PM
> To: cnc-list@cnc-list.com
> Cc: Jeffrey Nelson
> Subject: Re: Stus-List Edson wheel chain jumping links?
> 
> Do you know any really good practical jokers?
> 
> I can't imagine a possible way for the chain to jump off the socket and the 
> key's unless they somehow broke would prohibit slipping elsewhere.
> 
> 
> 
> 
>> On 1/23/2018 9:54 PM, Bruce Whitmore via CnC-List wrote:
>> Hello all, 
>> 
>> OK, I think I have a weird thing going here...
>> 
>> I have adjusted the wheel to center the turks head knot straight up when the 
>> wheel is centered.  I got it all nice & straight a few weeks ago, and came 
>> back to the boat to find it about 20 degrees off to port.  By the way, were 
>> talking about 20% off on the wheel, not 20% of rudder.   After installing my 
>> autopilot, I again adjusted it, this time getting the cables set to 
>> approximately the same amount of adjustment on each side to the adjustment 
>> bolts through the radial drive wheel.  This required jumping the chain 1 or 
>> 2 notches on the wheel sprocket.
>> 
>> All was well for a couple weeks, and behold, on Saturday I went back only to 
>> find the turks head knot about 20 degrees to starboard.  During these 
>> adjustments, I have made a point to keep the cable deflection adjusted to be 
>> relatively minimal (say 1/2" or so?), without getting so tight as to reduce 
>> the feel of the wheel.  I've notice no issues whatsoever when we're out 
>> sailing. 
>> 
>> During the first set of adjustments, I noticed the idler wheel bolts were a 
>> little loose, and tightened those.  
>> 
>> Considering the radial wheel bolts connect to each end of the cable, and the 
>> cables attach to the chain, I can only think the chain is somehow jumping on 
>> the sprocket.
>> 
>> Thoughts?
>> Bruce Whitmore
>> 1994 C 37/40+, "Astralis"
>> Madiera Beach, FL
>> (847) 404-5092 (mobile)
>> bwhitm...@sbcglobal.net
>> 
>> 
>> ___
>> 
>> Thanks everyone for supporting this list with your contributions.  Each and 
>> every one is greatly appreciated.  If you want to support the list - use 
>> PayPal to send contribution --   https://www.paypal.me/stumurray
>> 
> 
> 
> -- 
> Cheers,
> Jeff Nelson
> Muir Caileag
> C 30
> Armdale Y.C.
> Halifax
> 
>   Virus-free. www.avast.com
> ___
> 
> Thanks everyone for supporting this list with your contributions.  Each and 
> every one is greatly appreciated.  If you want to support the list - use 
> PayPal to send contribution --   https://www.paypal.me/stumurray
> 
___

Thanks everyone for supporting this list with your contributions.  Each and 
every one is greatly appreciated.  If you want to support the list - use PayPal 
to send contribution --   https://www.paypal.me/stumurray

Re: Stus-List Edson wheel chain jumping links?

[Dennis C. via CnC-List]

If I take the wheel off and rotate it 180 degrees, does that create the
same deviation?  I routinely change between my 32 inch (cruising) and 36
inch (racing) wheels.  If I don't put the wheel on with the correct side
forward, it is always off a spoke or so.

Could someone be messing with you?

Dennis C.
Touche' 35-1 #83
Mandeville, LA

On Jan 24, 2018 12:40 PM, "Bruce Whitmore via CnC-List" <
cnc-list@cnc-list.com> wrote:

The turks head wraps across a spoke, so no, it can't be moved.

good thought though
Bruce Whitmore

(847) 404-5092 (mobile)
bwhitm...@sbcglobal.net


--
*From:* "Hoyt, Mike via CnC-List" 
*To:* "cnc-list@cnc-list.com" 
*Cc:* "Hoyt, Mike" 
*Sent:* Wednesday, January 24, 2018 2:35 PM

*Subject:* Re: Stus-List Edson wheel chain jumping links?

Any chance that the Turks Head is moving?

..  or that someone is not moving it just for fun?

*From:* CnC-List [mailto:cnc-list-boun...@cnc-list.com] *On Behalf Of *Bruce
Whitmore via CnC-List
*Sent:* Wednesday, January 24, 2018 12:39 PM
*To:* cnc-list@cnc-list.com
*Cc:* Bruce Whitmore
*Subject:* Re: Stus-List Edson wheel chain jumping links?

And weirdly, the steering is very precise, with no sloppiness underway, and
it happens when we're OFF the boat!

On a side note, when we leave the boat, I tie off the wheel just in case
there is more current than the wheel brake can control.  This is done to
keep the wheel from turning to the stops, and to prevent wheel brake wear.
Our slip is in shallow water, and though we have never noticed the rudder
touching bottom when we sleep on the boat, the keel stub will touch during
low tides.  Thankfully, we have a soft sand bottom.

Maybe the boat settles at low tide or a current comes by, pushes the rudder
against the line ties, causes slack in the chain/wire rope, causing the
chain to jump?  I have not tried to look at how slack the cable becomes
when I hit the rudder stop.

The rust, however will have to be dealt with sooner rather than later...

Any further thoughts would be appreciated.

Bruce Whitmore

(847) 404-5092 (mobile)
bwhitm...@sbcglobal.net

--
*From:* Josh Muckley via CnC-List 
*To:* C List 
*Cc:* Josh Muckley 
*Sent:* Wednesday, January 24, 2018 11:20 AM
*Subject:* Re: Stus-List Edson wheel chain jumping links?

I can pretty much assure you that there is rust.  What I can't explain is
why the problem comes and goes and at such a prescribed amount.  The
detrimental rust would also likely cause a looseness in the wheel and
cables which would be quite perceptible.

Josh



On Jan 24, 2018 11:12 AM, "Bruce Whitmore via CnC-List" <
cnc-list@cnc-list.com> wrote:
Per Chuck's previous comments, the radial wheel has a keyway and key, so I
don't think it can slip.  Similarly, the helm wheel has a keyway and key.
I've tightened the idler pully plate bolts, but I suspect there is rust
going on under there, which will mean a full disassembly.

Sigh...

Bruce Whitmore

(847) 404-5092 (mobile)
bwhitm...@sbcglobal.net

--
*From:* Michael Brown via CnC-List 
*To:* cnc-list@cnc-list.com
*Cc:* Michael Brown 
*Sent:* Wednesday, January 24, 2018 11:06 AM
*Subject:* Re: Stus-List Edson wheel chain jumping links?

If the radial wheel was slipping on the rudder post it could cause that
issue.
Maybe use a sharpie and put a line down the rudder post and onto the radial
wheel.
20º is not much movement, you may require a fine line.

Michael Brown
Windburn
C 30-1



Date: Wed, 24 Jan 2018 01:54:12 + (UTC)
From: Bruce Whitmore 

Hello all,

OK, I think I have a weird thing going here...
I have adjusted the wheel to center the turks head knot straight up when
the wheel is centered.? I got it all nice & straight a few weeks ago, and
came back to the boat to find it about 20 degrees off to port.? By the way,
were talking about 20% off on the wheel, not 20% of rudder. ? After
installing my autopilot, I again adjusted it, this time getting the cables
set to approximately the same amount of adjustment on each side to the
adjustment bolts through the radial drive wheel.? This required jumping the
chain 1 or 2 notches on the wheel sprocket.
All was well for a couple weeks, and behold, on Saturday I went back only
to find the turks head knot about 20 degrees to starboard.? During these
adjustments, I have made a point to keep the cable deflection adjusted to
be relatively minimal (say 1/2" or so?), without getting so tight as to
reduce the feel of the wheel.? I've notice no issues whatsoever when we're
out sailing.

During the first set of adjustments, I noticed the idler wheel bolts were a
little loose, and tightened those.?

Considering the radial wheel bolts connect to each end of the cable, and
the cables attach to the chain, I can only think the 

Re: Stus-List Edson wheel chain jumping links?

[Doug Allardyce via CnC-List]

Boat_SigSince you are checking everything, check the tapered pin that holds the 
sprocket to the pedestal shaft.

Doug Allardyce 
~_/)~ 

  -Original Message-
  From: CnC-List [mailto:cnc-list-boun...@cnc-list.com]On Behalf Of Jeffrey 
Nelson via CnC-List
  Sent: Wednesday, January 24, 2018 4:21 PM
  To: cnc-list@cnc-list.com
  Cc: Jeffrey Nelson
  Subject: Re: Stus-List Edson wheel chain jumping links?


  Do you know any really good practical jokers?

  I can't imagine a possible way for the chain to jump off the socket and the 
key's unless they somehow broke would prohibit slipping elsewhere.






  On 1/23/2018 9:54 PM, Bruce Whitmore via CnC-List wrote:

Hello all, 



OK, I think I have a weird thing going here...


I have adjusted the wheel to center the turks head knot straight up when 
the wheel is centered.  I got it all nice & straight a few weeks ago, and came 
back to the boat to find it about 20 degrees off to port.  By the way, were 
talking about 20% off on the wheel, not 20% of rudder.   After installing my 
autopilot, I again adjusted it, this time getting the cables set to 
approximately the same amount of adjustment on each side to the adjustment 
bolts through the radial drive wheel.  This required jumping the chain 1 or 2 
notches on the wheel sprocket.


All was well for a couple weeks, and behold, on Saturday I went back only 
to find the turks head knot about 20 degrees to starboard.  During these 
adjustments, I have made a point to keep the cable deflection adjusted to be 
relatively minimal (say 1/2" or so?), without getting so tight as to reduce the 
feel of the wheel.  I've notice no issues whatsoever when we're out sailing. 



During the first set of adjustments, I noticed the idler wheel bolts were a 
little loose, and tightened those.  



Considering the radial wheel bolts connect to each end of the cable, and 
the cables attach to the chain, I can only think the chain is somehow jumping 
on the sprocket.


Thoughts?

Bruce Whitmore

1994 C 37/40+, "Astralis"
Madiera Beach, FL

(847) 404-5092 (mobile)
bwhitm...@sbcglobal.net


 

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  -- 
  Cheers,
  Jeff Nelson
  Muir Caileag
  C 30
  Armdale Y.C.
  Halifax


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Re: Stus-List Edson wheel chain jumping links?

[Danny Haughey via CnC-List]

Thats funny!  I was thinking the exact same thing!


On 1/24/2018 4:20 PM, Jeffrey Nelson via CnC-List wrote:


Do you know any really good practical jokers?

I can't imagine a possible way for the chain to jump off the socket 
and the key's unless they somehow broke would prohibit slipping elsewhere.






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Re: Stus-List Edson wheel chain jumping links?

[Jeffrey Nelson via CnC-List]

Do you know any really good practical jokers?

I can't imagine a possible way for the chain to jump off the socket and 
the key's unless they somehow broke would prohibit slipping elsewhere.




On 1/23/2018 9:54 PM, Bruce Whitmore via CnC-List wrote:

Hello all,

OK, I think I have a weird thing going here...

I have adjusted the wheel to center the turks head knot straight up 
when the wheel is centered.  I got it all nice & straight a few weeks 
ago, and came back to the boat to find it about 20 degrees off to 
port.  By the way, were talking about 20% off on the wheel, not 20% of 
rudder.   After installing my autopilot, I again adjusted it, this 
time getting the cables set to approximately the same amount of 
adjustment on each side to the adjustment bolts through the radial 
drive wheel. This required jumping the chain 1 or 2 notches on the 
wheel sprocket.


All was well for a couple weeks, and behold, on Saturday I went back 
only to find the turks head knot about 20 degrees to starboard.  
During these adjustments, I have made a point to keep the cable 
deflection adjusted to be relatively minimal (say 1/2" or so?), 
without getting so tight as to reduce the feel of the wheel.  I've 
notice no issues whatsoever when we're out sailing.


During the first set of adjustments, I noticed the idler wheel bolts 
were a little loose, and tightened those.


Considering the radial wheel bolts connect to each end of the cable, 
and the cables attach to the chain, I can only think the chain is 
somehow jumping on the sprocket.


Thoughts?
Bruce Whitmore
1994 C 37/40+, "Astralis"
Madiera Beach, FL
(847) 404-5092 (mobile)
bwhitm...@sbcglobal.net


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--
Boat_Sig Cheers,
    Jeff Nelson
    Muir Caileag
    C 30
    Armdale Y.C.
    Halifax


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Re: Stus-List Edson wheel chain jumping links?

[mike amirault via CnC-List]

A friend of mine who owns a Niagra 35 had his chain slip off the sprocket
while he was at a mooring during windy and rough conditions.  I asked him if
he had locked down his steering wheel;  he had not. If you have too much
slack in your cables and your rudder is flopping about, you could jump a cog
or two.

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Re: Stus-List Edson wheel chain jumping links?

[Chuck Gilchrest via CnC-List]

There should be no play at the radial drive.  If the radial is installed 
properly (bored .003” undersized), when it is tightened in place it should not 
move.  The key only serves as a secondary fixture to prevent the drive from 
turning on the post if the interference clamping is damaged.  The key should 
also be stainless for strength and to mitigate corrosion.  Brass or bronze keys 
are soft and not appropriate.
It is possible to damage a rudder stop or bend a radial through an accident or 
misuse, but that would not effect the centering of the wheel.  Only the 
position of the chain on the sprocket can do that.
Damaging a rudder stop may allow the chain to become derailed from the sprocket 
at the chain to wire joint if the chain runs off the end of the sprocket.  
Pulling it back the other direction could result in a misalignment if the chain.

For what it’s worth, jumping one tooth on a 13tooth sprocket will result in a 
20 degree wheel offset...
Chuck

Sent from my iPhone

> On Jan 24, 2018, at 2:33 PM, Michael Brown via CnC-List 
>  wrote:
> 
> 
> 
> True, though note that very little play at the radial wheel keyway is 
> required.
> If your rudder swings 80 degrees and that takes 3 turns lock to lock ( no 
> idea, just an example ),
> then 1 degree on the rudder is 13.5 degrees on the wheel. If your rudder post 
> is 2.5" diameter then
> 1 degree is less than 1/32" of play.
> 
> Other than taking everything apart on Windburn I have only looked at two 
> other drives
> systems. Both had been damaged and had some play in them. On one it was
> a similar observation, the center mark on the wheel was no longer straight 
> ahead. My guess
> is while in full reverse the wheel was let go and slammed over against the 
> stop hard
> enough to shift the radial on the shaft. The key was brass or bronze and was 
> damaged.
> On the other one the keyways were not the same size, maybe out by 0.02" or so.
> 
> It is not always easy to get in and make good measurements.
> 
> That allowed the radial to move, polished the fit a bit and the drive system 
> slipped
> down enough to cause alignment problems.
> 
> I take it from your advise that everything was engineered to be a very tight 
> or interference
> fit. The ones I looked at were not but I couldn't tell by hand. Still, 20 
> degrees is a lot.
> 
> 
> I did take the plate and idlers off of Windburn, had them sandblasted and 
> coated them
> with POR-15. Came up as hard as rock and looks to be a good solution for 
> rusting steel.
> 
> 
> Michael Brown
> Windburn
> C 30-1
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> From: "Chuck Gilchrest"  
> 
> Michael, 
> 
> A 20 degree deviation on wheel centering is an AWFUL lot of wheel travel with 
> no explanation.  I suspect Bruce?s boat has a 44? diameter wheel which means 
> at 20 degrees of travel, the Turk?s head knot would have moved roughly 7 ?? 
> to one side or the other.  Generally speaking, if my hand moves the wheel 
> that much, the boat changes course dramatically, even with a big wheel. 
> 
> Most C Yachts had radial drives that are held in place on the rudder shaft 
> by an interference fit of the two halves of the radial, machined undersized 
> by .003? for a machinist clamping tolerance and then a keyway is cut in the 
> radial drive to accommodate a stainless key that locks the drive wheel in 
> place on the rudder.   Generally, even if the boat is run aground on the 
> rudder, the radial drive wheel or rudder post may bend, but it won?t slip on 
> the post unless it is not clamped tightly at the hub of the wheel. 
> 
> I too suspect a weakened idler assembly that is allowing the idlers to pivot 
> after tensioning.  The next step is the idler wheel letting go and dropping 
> various bits into to the bilge whilst the cable goes completely slack.  Boat 
> handling suffers when this happens.. 
> 
> Chuck Gilchrest 
> 
> Half Magic 
> 
> 1983 Landfall 35 
> 
> Padanaram, MA 
> ___
> 
> Thanks everyone for supporting this list with your contributions.  Each and 
> every one is greatly appreciated.  If you want to support the list - use 
> PayPal to send contribution --   https://www.paypal.me/stumurray
> 
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Re: Stus-List Edson wheel chain jumping links?

[Matthew L. Wolford via CnC-List]

Sometimes the most obvious answer is the answer.  Given that you were working 
with the chain to realign the wheel, I suggest looking at all the components 
that may have been affected during this work as a starting point.

From: Bruce Whitmore via CnC-List 
Sent: Wednesday, January 24, 2018 2:36 PM
To: cnc-list@cnc-list.com 
Cc: Bruce Whitmore 
Subject: Re: Stus-List Edson wheel chain jumping links?

I have had the pedestal partially apart, in that I replaced the brake pads and 
lubed the chain.  I also got it far enough apart to jump the chain links for 
the purposes of realigning the wheel.  I have not taken the chain off entirely. 
 If, in fact the bolts thread into a deck fitting rather than having to work 
with nuts on the backside, that would make things MUCH easier.

Interestingly, there was some commentary about how there were "wheels" replaced 
in the steering system before I bought the boat, but that was not documented, 
so I kind of disregarded it at the time.  I'd sure like it if I didn't have to 
deal with parts that are no longer manufactured!

Any available documentation about the process on my particular boat would be 
extremely helpful!


Bruce Whitmore
1994 C 37/40+, "Astralis"
(847) 404-5092 (mobile)
bwhitm...@sbcglobal.net













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Re: Stus-List Edson wheel chain jumping links?

[Bruce Whitmore via CnC-List]

The turks head wraps across a spoke, so no, it can't be moved.  

good thought though
Bruce Whitmore

(847) 404-5092 (mobile)
bwhitm...@sbcglobal.net


  From: "Hoyt, Mike via CnC-List" 
 To: "cnc-list@cnc-list.com"  
Cc: "Hoyt, Mike" 
 Sent: Wednesday, January 24, 2018 2:35 PM
 Subject: Re: Stus-List Edson wheel chain jumping links?
   
#yiv4571028736 #yiv4571028736 -- _filtered #yiv4571028736 
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{font-size:10.0pt;} _filtered #yiv4571028736 {margin:1.0in 1.0in 1.0in 
1.0in;}#yiv4571028736 div.yiv4571028736WordSection1 {}#yiv4571028736 Any chance 
that the Turks Head is moving?    ..  or that someone is not moving it just for 
fun?    From: CnC-List [mailto:cnc-list-boun...@cnc-list.com]On Behalf Of Bruce 
Whitmore via CnC-List
Sent: Wednesday, January 24, 2018 12:39 PM
To: cnc-list@cnc-list.com
Cc: Bruce Whitmore
Subject: Re: Stus-List Edson wheel chain jumping links?    And weirdly, the 
steering is very precise, with no sloppiness underway, and it happens when 
we're OFF the boat!    On a side note, when we leave the boat, I tie off the 
wheel just in case there is more current than the wheel brake can control.  
This is done to keep the wheel from turning to the stops, and to prevent wheel 
brake wear. Our slip is in shallow water, and though we have never noticed the 
rudder touching bottom when we sleep on the boat, the keel stub will touch 
during low tides.  Thankfully, we have a soft sand bottom.    Maybe the boat 
settles at low tide or a current comes by, pushes the rudder against the line 
ties, causes slack in the chain/wire rope, causing the chain to jump?  I have 
not tried to look at how slack the cable becomes when I hit the rudder stop.    
The rust, however will have to be dealt with sooner rather than later...    Any 
further thoughts would be appreciated.   Bruce Whitmore

(847) 404-5092 (mobile)
bwhitm...@sbcglobal.net    From: Josh Muckley via CnC-List 

To: C List 
Cc: Josh Muckley 
Sent: Wednesday, January 24, 2018 11:20 AM
Subject: Re: Stus-List Edson wheel chain jumping links?    I can pretty much 
assure you that there is rust.  What I can't explain is why the problem comes 
and goes and at such a prescribed amount.  The detrimental rust would also 
likely cause a looseness in the wheel and cables which would be quite 
perceptible.    Josh          On Jan 24, 2018 11:12 AM, "Bruce Whitmore via 
CnC-List"  wrote: Per Chuck's previous comments, the 
radial wheel has a keyway and key, so I don't think it can slip.  Similarly, 
the helm wheel has a keyway and key.  I've tightened the idler pully plate 
bolts, but I suspect there is rust going on under there, which will mean a full 
disassembly.    Sigh...    Bruce Whitmore

(847) 404-5092 (mobile)
bwhitm...@sbcglobal.net    From: Michael Brown via CnC-List 

To: cnc-list@cnc-list.com
Cc: Michael Brown 
Sent: Wednesday, January 24, 2018 11:06 AM
Subject: Re: Stus-List Edson wheel chain jumping links?    If the radial wheel 
was slipping on the rudder post it could cause that issue.
Maybe use a sharpie and put a line down the rudder post and onto the radial 
wheel.
20º is not much movement, you may require a fine line.

Michael Brown
Windburn
C 30-1

  
Date: Wed, 24 Jan 2018 01:54:12 + (UTC)
From: Bruce Whitmore 

Hello all, 

OK, I think I have a weird thing going here... 
I have adjusted the wheel to center the turks head knot straight up when the 
wheel is centered.? I got it all nice & straight a few weeks ago, and came back 
to the boat to find it about 20 degrees off to port.? By the way, were talking 
about 20% off on the wheel, not 20% of rudder. ? After installing my autopilot, 
I again adjusted it, this time getting the cables set to approximately the same 
amount of adjustment on 

Re: Stus-List Edson wheel chain jumping links?

[Bruce Whitmore via CnC-List]

I have had the pedestal partially apart, in that I replaced the brake pads and 
lubed the chain.  I also got it far enough apart to jump the chain links for 
the purposes of realigning the wheel.  I have not taken the chain off entirely. 
 If, in fact the bolts thread into a deck fitting rather than having to work 
with nuts on the backside, that would make things MUCH easier.
Interestingly, there was some commentary about how there were "wheels" replaced 
in the steering system before I bought the boat, but that was not documented, 
so I kind of disregarded it at the time.  I'd sure like it if I didn't have to 
deal with parts that are no longer manufactured!
Any available documentation about the process on my particular boat would be 
extremely helpful!

Bruce Whitmore
1994 C 37/40+, "Astralis"
(847) 404-5092 (mobile)
bwhitm...@sbcglobal.net






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every one is greatly appreciated.  If you want to support the list - use PayPal 
to send contribution --   https://www.paypal.me/stumurray

Re: Stus-List Edson wheel chain jumping links?

[Hoyt, Mike via CnC-List]

Any chance that the Turks Head is moving?

..  or that someone is not moving it just for fun?

From: CnC-List [mailto:cnc-list-boun...@cnc-list.com] On Behalf Of Bruce 
Whitmore via CnC-List
Sent: Wednesday, January 24, 2018 12:39 PM
To: cnc-list@cnc-list.com
Cc: Bruce Whitmore
Subject: Re: Stus-List Edson wheel chain jumping links?

And weirdly, the steering is very precise, with no sloppiness underway, and it 
happens when we're OFF the boat!

On a side note, when we leave the boat, I tie off the wheel just in case there 
is more current than the wheel brake can control.  This is done to keep the 
wheel from turning to the stops, and to prevent wheel brake wear. Our slip is 
in shallow water, and though we have never noticed the rudder touching bottom 
when we sleep on the boat, the keel stub will touch during low tides.  
Thankfully, we have a soft sand bottom.

Maybe the boat settles at low tide or a current comes by, pushes the rudder 
against the line ties, causes slack in the chain/wire rope, causing the chain 
to jump?  I have not tried to look at how slack the cable becomes when I hit 
the rudder stop.

The rust, however will have to be dealt with sooner rather than later...

Any further thoughts would be appreciated.

Bruce Whitmore

(847) 404-5092 (mobile)
bwhitm...@sbcglobal.net


From: Josh Muckley via CnC-List 
>
To: C List >
Cc: Josh Muckley >
Sent: Wednesday, January 24, 2018 11:20 AM
Subject: Re: Stus-List Edson wheel chain jumping links?

I can pretty much assure you that there is rust.  What I can't explain is why 
the problem comes and goes and at such a prescribed amount.  The detrimental 
rust would also likely cause a looseness in the wheel and cables which would be 
quite perceptible.

Josh



On Jan 24, 2018 11:12 AM, "Bruce Whitmore via CnC-List" 
> wrote:
Per Chuck's previous comments, the radial wheel has a keyway and key, so I 
don't think it can slip.  Similarly, the helm wheel has a keyway and key.  I've 
tightened the idler pully plate bolts, but I suspect there is rust going on 
under there, which will mean a full disassembly.

Sigh...

Bruce Whitmore

(847) 404-5092 (mobile)
bwhitm...@sbcglobal.net


From: Michael Brown via CnC-List 
>
To: cnc-list@cnc-list.com
Cc: Michael Brown >
Sent: Wednesday, January 24, 2018 11:06 AM
Subject: Re: Stus-List Edson wheel chain jumping links?

If the radial wheel was slipping on the rudder post it could cause that issue.
Maybe use a sharpie and put a line down the rudder post and onto the radial 
wheel.
20º is not much movement, you may require a fine line.

Michael Brown
Windburn
C 30-1


Date: Wed, 24 Jan 2018 01:54:12 + (UTC)
From: Bruce Whitmore >

Hello all,

OK, I think I have a weird thing going here...
I have adjusted the wheel to center the turks head knot straight up when the 
wheel is centered.? I got it all nice & straight a few weeks ago, and came back 
to the boat to find it about 20 degrees off to port.? By the way, were talking 
about 20% off on the wheel, not 20% of rudder. ? After installing my autopilot, 
I again adjusted it, this time getting the cables set to approximately the same 
amount of adjustment on each side to the adjustment bolts through the radial 
drive wheel.? This required jumping the chain 1 or 2 notches on the wheel 
sprocket.
All was well for a couple weeks, and behold, on Saturday I went back only to 
find the turks head knot about 20 degrees to starboard.? During these 
adjustments, I have made a point to keep the cable deflection adjusted to be 
relatively minimal (say 1/2" or so?), without getting so tight as to reduce the 
feel of the wheel.? I've notice no issues whatsoever when we're out sailing.

During the first set of adjustments, I noticed the idler wheel bolts were a 
little loose, and tightened those.?

Considering the radial wheel bolts connect to each end of the cable, and the 
cables attach to the chain, I can only think the chain is somehow jumping on 
the sprocket.
Thoughts?
Bruce Whitmore
1994 C 37/40+, "Astralis"Madiera Beach, FL
(847) 404-5092 (mobile)
bwhitm...@sbcglobal.net
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every one is greatly appreciated.  If you want to support the list - use PayPal 
to send contribution --  https://www.paypal.me/ 
stumurray



__ _

Thanks everyone for supporting 

Re: Stus-List Edson wheel chain jumping links?

[Michael Brown via CnC-List]

True, though note that very little play at the radial wheel keyway is required.
If your rudder swings 80 degrees and that takes 3 turns lock to lock ( no idea, 
just an example ),
then 1 degree on the rudder is 13.5 degrees on the wheel. If your rudder post 
is 2.5" diameter then
1 degree is less than 1/32" of play.

Other than taking everything apart on Windburn I have only looked at two other 
drives
systems. Both had been damaged and had some play in them. On one it was
a similar observation, the center mark on the wheel was no longer straight 
ahead. My guess
is while in full reverse the wheel was let go and slammed over against the stop 
hard
enough to shift the radial on the shaft. The key was brass or bronze and was 
damaged.
On the other one the keyways were not the same size, maybe out by 0.02" or so.

It is not always easy to get in and make good measurements.

That allowed the radial to move, polished the fit a bit and the drive system 
slipped
down enough to cause alignment problems.

I take it from your advise that everything was engineered to be a very tight or 
interference
fit. The ones I looked at were not but I couldn't tell by hand. Still, 20 
degrees is a lot.


I did take the plate and idlers off of Windburn, had them sandblasted and 
coated them
with POR-15. Came up as hard as rock and looks to be a good solution for 
rusting steel.


Michael Brown
Windburn
C 30-1






From: "Chuck Gilchrest"  

Michael, 
 
A 20 degree deviation on wheel centering is an AWFUL lot of wheel travel with 
no explanation.  I suspect Bruce?s boat has a 44? diameter wheel which means at 
20 degrees of travel, the Turk?s head knot would have moved roughly 7 ?? to one 
side or the other.  Generally speaking, if my hand moves the wheel that much, 
the boat changes course dramatically, even with a big wheel. 
 
Most C Yachts had radial drives that are held in place on the rudder shaft by 
an interference fit of the two halves of the radial, machined undersized by 
.003? for a machinist clamping tolerance and then a keyway is cut in the radial 
drive to accommodate a stainless key that locks the drive wheel in place on the 
rudder.   Generally, even if the boat is run aground on the rudder, the radial 
drive wheel or rudder post may bend, but it won?t slip on the post unless it is 
not clamped tightly at the hub of the wheel. 
 
I too suspect a weakened idler assembly that is allowing the idlers to pivot 
after tensioning.  The next step is the idler wheel letting go and dropping 
various bits into to the bilge whilst the cable goes completely slack.  Boat 
handling suffers when this happens.. 
 
Chuck Gilchrest 
 
Half Magic 
 
1983 Landfall 35 
 
Padanaram, MA 
___

Thanks everyone for supporting this list with your contributions.  Each and 
every one is greatly appreciated.  If you want to support the list - use PayPal 
to send contribution --   https://www.paypal.me/stumurray

Re: Stus-List Edson wheel chain jumping links?

[Josh Muckley via CnC-List]

When I tighten my cables I have someone turn the wheel quickly while I
watch for slack in the cables.  I'm sure this is nowhere near the tension
and pressure applied during operation.

This "slack" can also be experienced as backlash in the wheel.  Or the
distance the wheel travels from right to left before conveying that change
of direction to the rudder.

Have you ever had the pedestal apart?  Ever inspect the condition of the
bronze sprocket that drives the chain?

Josh



On Wed, Jan 24, 2018, 11:40 AM Bruce Whitmore via CnC-List <
cnc-list@cnc-list.com> wrote:

> And weirdly, the steering is very precise, with no sloppiness underway,
> and it happens when we're OFF the boat!
>
> On a side note, when we leave the boat, I tie off the wheel just in case
> there is more current than the wheel brake can control.  This is done to
> keep the wheel from turning to the stops, and to prevent wheel brake wear.
> Our slip is in shallow water, and though we have never noticed the rudder
> touching bottom when we sleep on the boat, the keel stub will touch during
> low tides.  Thankfully, we have a soft sand bottom.
>
> Maybe the boat settles at low tide or a current comes by, pushes the
> rudder against the line ties, causes slack in the chain/wire rope, causing
> the chain to jump?  I have not tried to look at how slack the cable becomes
> when I hit the rudder stop.
>
> The rust, however will have to be dealt with sooner rather than later...
>
> Any further thoughts would be appreciated.
>
> Bruce Whitmore
>
> (847) 404-5092 (mobile)
> bwhitm...@sbcglobal.net
>
>
> --
> *From:* Josh Muckley via CnC-List 
> *To:* C List 
> *Cc:* Josh Muckley 
> *Sent:* Wednesday, January 24, 2018 11:20 AM
>
> *Subject:* Re: Stus-List Edson wheel chain jumping links?
>
> I can pretty much assure you that there is rust.  What I can't explain is
> why the problem comes and goes and at such a prescribed amount.  The
> detrimental rust would also likely cause a looseness in the wheel and
> cables which would be quite perceptible.
>
> Josh
>
>
>
> On Jan 24, 2018 11:12 AM, "Bruce Whitmore via CnC-List" <
> cnc-list@cnc-list.com> wrote:
>
> Per Chuck's previous comments, the radial wheel has a keyway and key, so I
> don't think it can slip.  Similarly, the helm wheel has a keyway and key.
> I've tightened the idler pully plate bolts, but I suspect there is rust
> going on under there, which will mean a full disassembly.
>
> Sigh...
>
> Bruce Whitmore
>
> (847) 404-5092 (mobile)
> bwhitm...@sbcglobal.net
>
>
> --
> *From:* Michael Brown via CnC-List 
> *To:* cnc-list@cnc-list.com
> *Cc:* Michael Brown 
> *Sent:* Wednesday, January 24, 2018 11:06 AM
> *Subject:* Re: Stus-List Edson wheel chain jumping links?
>
> If the radial wheel was slipping on the rudder post it could cause that
> issue.
> Maybe use a sharpie and put a line down the rudder post and onto the
> radial wheel.
> 20º is not much movement, you may require a fine line.
>
> Michael Brown
> Windburn
> C 30-1
>
>
>
> Date: Wed, 24 Jan 2018 01:54:12 + (UTC)
> From: Bruce Whitmore 
>
> Hello all,
>
> OK, I think I have a weird thing going here...
> I have adjusted the wheel to center the turks head knot straight up when
> the wheel is centered.? I got it all nice & straight a few weeks ago, and
> came back to the boat to find it about 20 degrees off to port.? By the way,
> were talking about 20% off on the wheel, not 20% of rudder. ? After
> installing my autopilot, I again adjusted it, this time getting the cables
> set to approximately the same amount of adjustment on each side to the
> adjustment bolts through the radial drive wheel.? This required jumping the
> chain 1 or 2 notches on the wheel sprocket.
> All was well for a couple weeks, and behold, on Saturday I went back only
> to find the turks head knot about 20 degrees to starboard.? During these
> adjustments, I have made a point to keep the cable deflection adjusted to
> be relatively minimal (say 1/2" or so?), without getting so tight as to
> reduce the feel of the wheel.? I've notice no issues whatsoever when we're
> out sailing.
>
> During the first set of adjustments, I noticed the idler wheel bolts were
> a little loose, and tightened those.?
>
> Considering the radial wheel bolts connect to each end of the cable, and
> the cables attach to the chain, I can only think the chain is somehow
> jumping on the sprocket.
> Thoughts?
> Bruce Whitmore
> 1994 C 37/40+, "Astralis"Madiera Beach, FL
> (847) 404-5092 (mobile)
> bwhitm...@sbcglobal.net
>
> __ _
>
> Thanks everyone for supporting this list with your contributions.  Each
> and every one is greatly appreciated.  If you want to support the list -
> use PayPal to send contribution --  https://www.paypal.me/ stumurray
> 

Re: Stus-List Edson wheel chain jumping links?

[Persuasion37 via CnC-List]

Hi Bruce

Your bolts don’t look original.  Mine are countersunk heads.  Mine are aluminum 
about seven inches long with stainless nuts.  When I took mine apart one on the 
bolts galled up and I had to drill the head out.  Edson no longer stocks that 
type of bolt so I went with a stainless hex head bolt like yours.

Mike
PERSUASION
C 37 K/CB
Long Sault

> On Jan 24, 2018, at 12:52 PM, Bruce Whitmore via CnC-List 
>  wrote:
> 
> Hi Chuck,
> 
> You're right as to the amount of wheel travel, and what that would do to 
> steering if I turn it that much when out sailing.  I also agree as to the 
> keyway, and to Michael's comment, the key is in place and intact, as I 
> removed the radial plate for inspection.  On the C 37/40+, the idler 
> pulleys are not below deck, they fit in a very small space I can access after 
> taking out a removable triangular panel in the cockpit.  So, the parts won't 
> drop down into the bilge, but it would still be a bad outcome.  :(  
> 
> I'll have to figure out how hard it is to remove the assembly entirely.  I'm 
> not sure currently if the bolts penetrate all the way down below deck, or are 
> accessible once I remove the panel behind the wheel.  
> 
> You can kind of get an idea by looking at the picture here:  
> https://www.dropbox.com/s/pxc37iifz7eo596/Pedestal%20Guard%20Feet.jpg?dl=0
> 
> 
> 847-404-5092 (mobile)
> bwhitm...@sbcglobal.net
> 
> 
> From: Chuck Gilchrest via CnC-List 
> To: cnc-list@cnc-list.com 
> Cc: Chuck Gilchrest 
> Sent: Wednesday, January 24, 2018 12:38 PM
> Subject: Re: Stus-List Edson wheel chain jumping links?
> 
> Michael,
> A 20 degree deviation on wheel centering is an AWFUL lot of wheel travel with 
> no explanation.  I suspect Bruce’s boat has a 44” diameter wheel which means 
> at 20 degrees of travel, the Turk’s head knot would have moved roughly 7 ½” 
> to one side or the other.  Generally speaking, if my hand moves the wheel 
> that much, the boat changes course dramatically, even with a big wheel.
> Most C Yachts had radial drives that are held in place on the rudder shaft 
> by an interference fit of the two halves of the radial, machined undersized 
> by .003” for a machinist clamping tolerance and then a keyway is cut in the 
> radial drive to accommodate a stainless key that locks the drive wheel in 
> place on the rudder.   Generally, even if the boat is run aground on the 
> rudder, the radial drive wheel or rudder post may bend, but it won’t slip on 
> the post unless it is not clamped tightly at the hub of the wheel.
> I too suspect a weakened idler assembly that is allowing the idlers to pivot 
> after tensioning.  The next step is the idler wheel letting go and dropping 
> various bits into to the bilge whilst the cable goes completely slack.  Boat 
> handling suffers when this happens..
> Chuck Gilchrest
> Half Magic
> 1983 Landfall 35
> Padanaram, MA
>  
>  
> From: CnC-List [mailto:cnc-list-boun...@cnc-list.com] On Behalf Of Michael 
> Brown via CnC-List
> Sent: Wednesday, January 24, 2018 11:09 AM
> To: cnc-list@cnc-list.com
> Cc: Michael Brown 
> Subject: Re: Stus-List Edson wheel chain jumping links?
>  
> If the radial wheel was slipping on the rudder post it could cause that issue.
> Maybe use a sharpie and put a line down the rudder post and onto the radial 
> wheel.
> 20º is not much movement, you may require a fine line.
> 
> Michael Brown
> Windburn
> C 30-1
> 
>  
> Date: Wed, 24 Jan 2018 01:54:12 + (UTC) 
> From: Bruce Whitmore  
> 
> Hello all, 
> 
> OK, I think I have a weird thing going here... 
> I have adjusted the wheel to center the turks head knot straight up when the 
> wheel is centered.? I got it all nice & straight a few weeks ago, and came 
> back to the boat to find it about 20 degrees off to port.? By the way, were 
> talking about 20% off on the wheel, not 20% of rudder. ? After installing my 
> autopilot, I again adjusted it, this time getting the cables set to 
> approximately the same amount of adjustment on each side to the adjustment 
> bolts through the radial drive wheel.? This required jumping the chain 1 or 2 
> notches on the wheel sprocket. 
> All was well for a couple weeks, and behold, on Saturday I went back only to 
> find the turks head knot about 20 degrees to starboard.? During these 
> adjustments, I have made a point to keep the cable deflection adjusted to be 
> relatively minimal (say 1/2" or so?), without getting so tight as to reduce 
> the feel of the wheel.? I've notice no issues whatsoever when we're out 
> sailing. 
> 
> During the first set of adjustments, I noticed the idler wheel bolts were a 
> little loose, and tightened those.? 
> 
> Considering the radial wheel bolts connect to each end of the cable, and the 
> cables attach to the chain, I can only think the chain is somehow jumping on 
> the sprocket. 
> Thoughts? 
> Bruce Whitmore 
> 1994 C 37/40+, 

Re: Stus-List Edson wheel chain jumping links?

[Chuck Gilchrest via CnC-List]

I know another list member has tackled the idler replacement in the last 2 
years on a similar boat and it was very well documented.  Your boat has a 
unique idler that Edson no longer builds, plus your pedestal bolts actually 
thread into a deck fixture rather than using through bolts and nuts.  I’ll try 
to find the link from an older thread if it is still out there.
Chuck

Sent from my iPhone

> On Jan 24, 2018, at 12:52 PM, Bruce Whitmore via CnC-List 
>  wrote:
> 
> Hi Chuck,
> 
> You're right as to the amount of wheel travel, and what that would do to 
> steering if I turn it that much when out sailing.  I also agree as to the 
> keyway, and to Michael's comment, the key is in place and intact, as I 
> removed the radial plate for inspection.  On the C 37/40+, the idler 
> pulleys are not below deck, they fit in a very small space I can access after 
> taking out a removable triangular panel in the cockpit.  So, the parts won't 
> drop down into the bilge, but it would still be a bad outcome.  :(  
> 
> I'll have to figure out how hard it is to remove the assembly entirely.  I'm 
> not sure currently if the bolts penetrate all the way down below deck, or are 
> accessible once I remove the panel behind the wheel.  
> 
> You can kind of get an idea by looking at the picture here:  
> https://www.dropbox.com/s/pxc37iifz7eo596/Pedestal%20Guard%20Feet.jpg?dl=0
> 
> 
> 847-404-5092 (mobile)
> bwhitm...@sbcglobal.net
> 
> 
> From: Chuck Gilchrest via CnC-List 
> To: cnc-list@cnc-list.com 
> Cc: Chuck Gilchrest 
> Sent: Wednesday, January 24, 2018 12:38 PM
> Subject: Re: Stus-List Edson wheel chain jumping links?
> 
> Michael,
> A 20 degree deviation on wheel centering is an AWFUL lot of wheel travel with 
> no explanation.  I suspect Bruce’s boat has a 44” diameter wheel which means 
> at 20 degrees of travel, the Turk’s head knot would have moved roughly 7 ½” 
> to one side or the other.  Generally speaking, if my hand moves the wheel 
> that much, the boat changes course dramatically, even with a big wheel.
> Most C Yachts had radial drives that are held in place on the rudder shaft 
> by an interference fit of the two halves of the radial, machined undersized 
> by .003” for a machinist clamping tolerance and then a keyway is cut in the 
> radial drive to accommodate a stainless key that locks the drive wheel in 
> place on the rudder.   Generally, even if the boat is run aground on the 
> rudder, the radial drive wheel or rudder post may bend, but it won’t slip on 
> the post unless it is not clamped tightly at the hub of the wheel.
> I too suspect a weakened idler assembly that is allowing the idlers to pivot 
> after tensioning.  The next step is the idler wheel letting go and dropping 
> various bits into to the bilge whilst the cable goes completely slack.  Boat 
> handling suffers when this happens..
> Chuck Gilchrest
> Half Magic
> 1983 Landfall 35
> Padanaram, MA
>  
>  
> From: CnC-List [mailto:cnc-list-boun...@cnc-list.com] On Behalf Of Michael 
> Brown via CnC-List
> Sent: Wednesday, January 24, 2018 11:09 AM
> To: cnc-list@cnc-list.com
> Cc: Michael Brown 
> Subject: Re: Stus-List Edson wheel chain jumping links?
>  
> If the radial wheel was slipping on the rudder post it could cause that issue.
> Maybe use a sharpie and put a line down the rudder post and onto the radial 
> wheel.
> 20º is not much movement, you may require a fine line.
> 
> Michael Brown
> Windburn
> C 30-1
> 
>  
> Date: Wed, 24 Jan 2018 01:54:12 + (UTC) 
> From: Bruce Whitmore  
> 
> Hello all, 
> 
> OK, I think I have a weird thing going here... 
> I have adjusted the wheel to center the turks head knot straight up when the 
> wheel is centered.? I got it all nice & straight a few weeks ago, and came 
> back to the boat to find it about 20 degrees off to port.? By the way, were 
> talking about 20% off on the wheel, not 20% of rudder. ? After installing my 
> autopilot, I again adjusted it, this time getting the cables set to 
> approximately the same amount of adjustment on each side to the adjustment 
> bolts through the radial drive wheel.? This required jumping the chain 1 or 2 
> notches on the wheel sprocket. 
> All was well for a couple weeks, and behold, on Saturday I went back only to 
> find the turks head knot about 20 degrees to starboard.? During these 
> adjustments, I have made a point to keep the cable deflection adjusted to be 
> relatively minimal (say 1/2" or so?), without getting so tight as to reduce 
> the feel of the wheel.? I've notice no issues whatsoever when we're out 
> sailing. 
> 
> During the first set of adjustments, I noticed the idler wheel bolts were a 
> little loose, and tightened those.? 
> 
> Considering the radial wheel bolts connect to each end of the cable, and the 
> cables attach to the chain, I can only think the chain is somehow jumping on 
> the sprocket. 
> 

Re: Stus-List Edson wheel chain jumping links?

[Bruce Whitmore via CnC-List]

Hi Chuck,
You're right as to the amount of wheel travel, and what that would do to 
steering if I turn it that much when out sailing.  I also agree as to the 
keyway, and to Michael's comment, the key is in place and intact, as I removed 
the radial plate for inspection.  On the C 37/40+, the idler pulleys are not 
below deck, they fit in a very small space I can access after taking out a 
removable triangular panel in the cockpit.  So, the parts won't drop down into 
the bilge, but it would still be a bad outcome.  :(  

I'll have to figure out how hard it is to remove the assembly entirely.  I'm 
not sure currently if the bolts penetrate all the way down below deck, or are 
accessible once I remove the panel behind the wheel.  

You can kind of get an idea by looking at the picture here:  
https://www.dropbox.com/s/pxc37iifz7eo596/Pedestal%20Guard%20Feet.jpg?dl=0


847-404-5092 (mobile)
bwhitm...@sbcglobal.net


  From: Chuck Gilchrest via CnC-List 
 To: cnc-list@cnc-list.com 
Cc: Chuck Gilchrest 
 Sent: Wednesday, January 24, 2018 12:38 PM
 Subject: Re: Stus-List Edson wheel chain jumping links?
   
#yiv2637076606 #yiv2637076606 -- _filtered #yiv2637076606 {panose-1:2 4 5 3 5 4 
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{}#yiv2637076606 Michael,A 20 degree deviation on wheel centering is an AWFUL 
lot of wheel travel with no explanation.  I suspect Bruce’s boat has a 44” 
diameter wheel which means at 20 degrees of travel, the Turk’s head knot would 
have moved roughly 7 ½” to one side or the other.  Generally speaking, if my 
hand moves the wheel that much, the boat changes course dramatically, even with 
a big wheel.Most C Yachts had radial drives that are held in place on the 
rudder shaft by an interference fit of the two halves of the radial, machined 
undersized by .003” for a machinist clamping tolerance and then a keyway is cut 
in the radial drive to accommodate a stainless key that locks the drive wheel 
in place on the rudder.   Generally, even if the boat is run aground on the 
rudder, the radial drive wheel or rudder post may bend, but it won’t slip on 
the post unless it is not clamped tightly at the hub of the wheel.I too suspect 
a weakened idler assembly that is allowing the idlers to pivot after 
tensioning.  The next step is the idler wheel letting go and dropping various 
bits into to the bilge whilst the cable goes completely slack.  Boat handling 
suffers when this happens..Chuck GilchrestHalf Magic1983 Landfall 35Padanaram, 
MA    From: CnC-List [mailto:cnc-list-boun...@cnc-list.com] On Behalf Of 
Michael Brown via CnC-List
Sent: Wednesday, January 24, 2018 11:09 AM
To: cnc-list@cnc-list.com
Cc: Michael Brown 
Subject: Re: Stus-List Edson wheel chain jumping links?  If the radial wheel 
was slipping on the rudder post it could cause that issue.
Maybe use a sharpie and put a line down the rudder post and onto the radial 
wheel.
20º is not much movement, you may require a fine line.

Michael Brown
Windburn
C 30-1

 
Date: Wed, 24 Jan 2018 01:54:12 + (UTC) 
From: Bruce Whitmore  

Hello all, 

OK, I think I have a weird thing going here... 
I have adjusted the wheel to center the turks head knot straight up when the 
wheel is centered.? I got it all nice & straight a few weeks ago, and came back 
to the boat to find it about 20 degrees off to port.? By the way, were talking 
about 20% off on the wheel, not 20% of rudder. ? After installing my autopilot, 
I again adjusted it, this time getting the cables set to approximately the same 
amount of adjustment on each side to the adjustment bolts through the radial 
drive wheel.? This required jumping the chain 1 or 2 notches on the wheel 
sprocket. 
All was well for a couple weeks, and behold, on Saturday I went back only to 
find the turks head knot about 20 degrees to starboard.? During these 
adjustments, I have made a point to keep the cable deflection adjusted to be 
relatively minimal (say 1/2" or so?), without getting so tight as to reduce the 
feel of the 

Re: Stus-List "Maritime Documentation Center"

[Matthew L. Wolford via CnC-List]

Got mine, too.

From: bushmark4--- via CnC-List 
Sent: Wednesday, January 24, 2018 12:07 PM
To: cnc-list@cnc-list.com 
Cc: bushma...@aol.com 
Subject: Re: Stus-List "Maritime Documentation Center"

I received one also, trashed it


Richard
s/v Bushmark4: 1985 C 37 CB; Ohio River
Richard N. Bush 
2950 Breckenridge Lane, Suite Nine
Louisville, Kentucky 40220-1462 
502-584-7255


-Original Message-
From: Bill Coleman via CnC-List 
To: cnc-list 
Cc: Bill Coleman 
Sent: Wed, Jan 24, 2018 10:39 am
Subject: Stus-List "Maritime Documentation Center"


Just got my EARLY supposed Documentation Renewal from the "Maritime 
Documentation Center"

I think the USCG must have taken heed of all the complaints, as these people 
have really toned down their ‘Renewal’
There is no amount to pay, and now little bits in there like , This is a 
courtesy notice,  This is not an invoice,  you are under no obligation to pay, 
etc – 
Things that were not in their notice in past years.

I am sure they will still snag some people who are either not paying attention, 
or are too busy to notice.

Bill Coleman
C 39 Erie, PA

___

Thanks everyone for supporting this list with your contributions. Each and 
every one is greatly appreciated. If you want to support the list - use PayPal 
to send contribution -- https://www.paypal.me/stumurray





___

Thanks everyone for supporting this list with your contributions.  Each and 
every one is greatly appreciated.  If you want to support the list - use PayPal 
to send contribution --   https://www.paypal.me/stumurray

___

Thanks everyone for supporting this list with your contributions.  Each and 
every one is greatly appreciated.  If you want to support the list - use PayPal 
to send contribution --   https://www.paypal.me/stumurray

Re: Stus-List Edson wheel chain jumping links?

[Persuasion37 via CnC-List]

Has anyone ever rode a bicycle with a rusty chain.  Everything can be fine then 
all of a sudden the chain derails, with varying results.  Those cross bars can 
do some damage. Check every inch on the chain and de-rust and lubricate as 
necessary.

Mike
PERSUASION
C 37 K/CB
Long Sault

> On Jan 24, 2018, at 12:28 PM, Chuck Gilchrest via CnC-List 
>  wrote:
> 
> Michael,
> A 20 degree deviation on wheel centering is an AWFUL lot of wheel travel with 
> no explanation.  I suspect Bruce’s boat has a 44” diameter wheel which means 
> at 20 degrees of travel, the Turk’s head knot would have moved roughly 7 ½” 
> to one side or the other.  Generally speaking, if my hand moves the wheel 
> that much, the boat changes course dramatically, even with a big wheel.
> Most C Yachts had radial drives that are held in place on the rudder shaft 
> by an interference fit of the two halves of the radial, machined undersized 
> by .003” for a machinist clamping tolerance and then a keyway is cut in the 
> radial drive to accommodate a stainless key that locks the drive wheel in 
> place on the rudder.   Generally, even if the boat is run aground on the 
> rudder, the radial drive wheel or rudder post may bend, but it won’t slip on 
> the post unless it is not clamped tightly at the hub of the wheel.
> I too suspect a weakened idler assembly that is allowing the idlers to pivot 
> after tensioning.  The next step is the idler wheel letting go and dropping 
> various bits into to the bilge whilst the cable goes completely slack.  Boat 
> handling suffers when this happens..
> Chuck Gilchrest
> Half Magic
> 1983 Landfall 35
> Padanaram, MA
>  
>  
> From: CnC-List [mailto:cnc-list-boun...@cnc-list.com] On Behalf Of Michael 
> Brown via CnC-List
> Sent: Wednesday, January 24, 2018 11:09 AM
> To: cnc-list@cnc-list.com
> Cc: Michael Brown 
> Subject: Re: Stus-List Edson wheel chain jumping links?
>  
> If the radial wheel was slipping on the rudder post it could cause that issue.
> Maybe use a sharpie and put a line down the rudder post and onto the radial 
> wheel.
> 20º is not much movement, you may require a fine line.
> 
> Michael Brown
> Windburn
> C 30-1
> 
>  
> Date: Wed, 24 Jan 2018 01:54:12 + (UTC) 
> From: Bruce Whitmore  
> 
> Hello all, 
> 
> OK, I think I have a weird thing going here... 
> I have adjusted the wheel to center the turks head knot straight up when the 
> wheel is centered.? I got it all nice & straight a few weeks ago, and came 
> back to the boat to find it about 20 degrees off to port.? By the way, were 
> talking about 20% off on the wheel, not 20% of rudder. ? After installing my 
> autopilot, I again adjusted it, this time getting the cables set to 
> approximately the same amount of adjustment on each side to the adjustment 
> bolts through the radial drive wheel.? This required jumping the chain 1 or 2 
> notches on the wheel sprocket. 
> All was well for a couple weeks, and behold, on Saturday I went back only to 
> find the turks head knot about 20 degrees to starboard.? During these 
> adjustments, I have made a point to keep the cable deflection adjusted to be 
> relatively minimal (say 1/2" or so?), without getting so tight as to reduce 
> the feel of the wheel.? I've notice no issues whatsoever when we're out 
> sailing. 
> 
> During the first set of adjustments, I noticed the idler wheel bolts were a 
> little loose, and tightened those.? 
> 
> Considering the radial wheel bolts connect to each end of the cable, and the 
> cables attach to the chain, I can only think the chain is somehow jumping on 
> the sprocket. 
> Thoughts? 
> Bruce Whitmore 
> 1994 C 37/40+, "Astralis"Madiera Beach, FL 
> (847) 404-5092 (mobile) 
> bwhitm...@sbcglobal.net
> 
> ___
> 
> Thanks everyone for supporting this list with your contributions.  Each and 
> every one is greatly appreciated.  If you want to support the list - use 
> PayPal to send contribution --   https://www.paypal.me/stumurray
> 
___

Thanks everyone for supporting this list with your contributions.  Each and 
every one is greatly appreciated.  If you want to support the list - use PayPal 
to send contribution --   https://www.paypal.me/stumurray

Re: Stus-List Edson wheel chain jumping links?

[Chuck Gilchrest via CnC-List]

Michael,

A 20 degree deviation on wheel centering is an AWFUL lot of wheel travel with 
no explanation.  I suspect Bruce’s boat has a 44” diameter wheel which means at 
20 degrees of travel, the Turk’s head knot would have moved roughly 7 ½” to one 
side or the other.  Generally speaking, if my hand moves the wheel that much, 
the boat changes course dramatically, even with a big wheel.

Most C Yachts had radial drives that are held in place on the rudder shaft by 
an interference fit of the two halves of the radial, machined undersized by 
.003” for a machinist clamping tolerance and then a keyway is cut in the radial 
drive to accommodate a stainless key that locks the drive wheel in place on the 
rudder.   Generally, even if the boat is run aground on the rudder, the radial 
drive wheel or rudder post may bend, but it won’t slip on the post unless it is 
not clamped tightly at the hub of the wheel.

I too suspect a weakened idler assembly that is allowing the idlers to pivot 
after tensioning.  The next step is the idler wheel letting go and dropping 
various bits into to the bilge whilst the cable goes completely slack.  Boat 
handling suffers when this happens..

Chuck Gilchrest

Half Magic

1983 Landfall 35

Padanaram, MA

 

 

From: CnC-List [mailto:cnc-list-boun...@cnc-list.com] On Behalf Of Michael 
Brown via CnC-List
Sent: Wednesday, January 24, 2018 11:09 AM
To: cnc-list@cnc-list.com
Cc: Michael Brown 
Subject: Re: Stus-List Edson wheel chain jumping links?

 

If the radial wheel was slipping on the rudder post it could cause that issue.
Maybe use a sharpie and put a line down the rudder post and onto the radial 
wheel.
20º is not much movement, you may require a fine line.

Michael Brown
Windburn
C 30-1

 

Date: Wed, 24 Jan 2018 01:54:12 + (UTC) 
From: Bruce Whitmore  
> 

Hello all, 

OK, I think I have a weird thing going here... 
I have adjusted the wheel to center the turks head knot straight up when the 
wheel is centered.? I got it all nice & straight a few weeks ago, and came back 
to the boat to find it about 20 degrees off to port.? By the way, were talking 
about 20% off on the wheel, not 20% of rudder. ? After installing my autopilot, 
I again adjusted it, this time getting the cables set to approximately the same 
amount of adjustment on each side to the adjustment bolts through the radial 
drive wheel.? This required jumping the chain 1 or 2 notches on the wheel 
sprocket. 
All was well for a couple weeks, and behold, on Saturday I went back only to 
find the turks head knot about 20 degrees to starboard.? During these 
adjustments, I have made a point to keep the cable deflection adjusted to be 
relatively minimal (say 1/2" or so?), without getting so tight as to reduce the 
feel of the wheel.? I've notice no issues whatsoever when we're out sailing. 

During the first set of adjustments, I noticed the idler wheel bolts were a 
little loose, and tightened those.? 

Considering the radial wheel bolts connect to each end of the cable, and the 
cables attach to the chain, I can only think the chain is somehow jumping on 
the sprocket. 
Thoughts? 
Bruce Whitmore 
1994 C 37/40+, "Astralis"Madiera Beach, FL 
(847) 404-5092 (mobile) 
bwhitm...@sbcglobal.net   

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Re: Stus-List "Maritime Documentation Center"

[bushmark4--- via CnC-List]

 I received one also, trashed it

 


Richard
s/v Bushmark4: 1985 C 37 CB; Ohio River
Richard N. Bush 
2950 Breckenridge Lane, Suite Nine
Louisville, Kentucky 40220-1462 
502-584-7255

 

 

-Original Message-
From: Bill Coleman via CnC-List 
To: cnc-list 
Cc: Bill Coleman 
Sent: Wed, Jan 24, 2018 10:39 am
Subject: Stus-List "Maritime Documentation Center"



Just got my EARLY supposed Documentation Renewal from the 
"MaritimeDocumentation Center"
 
I think the USCG must have taken heed of all the complaints, asthese people 
have really toned down their ‘Renewal’
There is no amount to pay, and now little bits in there like ,This is a 
courtesy notice,  This is not an invoice,  you are under noobligation to pay, 
etc – 
Things that were not in their notice in past years.
 
I am sure they will still snag some people who are either notpaying attention, 
or are too busy to notice.
 

Bill Coleman
C 39 Erie, PA




 




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Re: Stus-List Edson wheel chain jumping links?

[Ken Heaton via CnC-List]

While it doesn't seem likely, I think it is easier to pull the radial wheel
and check that than go after the idler wheels and plate under the pedestal
right now.  You could check to see if the key is still there in the rudder
post and hasn't become partially sheared or worn in some way from the
radial wheel having been loose in the past?

As you said though, "The rust, however will have to be dealt with sooner
rather than later..."

Ken H.

On 24 January 2018 at 12:39, Bruce Whitmore via CnC-List <
cnc-list@cnc-list.com> wrote:

> And weirdly, the steering is very precise, with no sloppiness underway,
> and it happens when we're OFF the boat!
>
> On a side note, when we leave the boat, I tie off the wheel just in case
> there is more current than the wheel brake can control.  This is done to
> keep the wheel from turning to the stops, and to prevent wheel brake wear.
> Our slip is in shallow water, and though we have never noticed the rudder
> touching bottom when we sleep on the boat, the keel stub will touch during
> low tides.  Thankfully, we have a soft sand bottom.
>
> Maybe the boat settles at low tide or a current comes by, pushes the
> rudder against the line ties, causes slack in the chain/wire rope, causing
> the chain to jump?  I have not tried to look at how slack the cable becomes
> when I hit the rudder stop.
>
> The rust, however will have to be dealt with sooner rather than later...
>
> Any further thoughts would be appreciated.
>
> Bruce Whitmore
>
> (847) 404-5092 (mobile)
> bwhitm...@sbcglobal.net
>
>
> --
> *From:* Josh Muckley via CnC-List 
> *To:* C List 
> *Cc:* Josh Muckley 
> *Sent:* Wednesday, January 24, 2018 11:20 AM
>
> *Subject:* Re: Stus-List Edson wheel chain jumping links?
>
> I can pretty much assure you that there is rust.  What I can't explain is
> why the problem comes and goes and at such a prescribed amount.  The
> detrimental rust would also likely cause a looseness in the wheel and
> cables which would be quite perceptible.
>
> Josh
>
>
>
> On Jan 24, 2018 11:12 AM, "Bruce Whitmore via CnC-List" <
> cnc-list@cnc-list.com> wrote:
>
> Per Chuck's previous comments, the radial wheel has a keyway and key, so I
> don't think it can slip.  Similarly, the helm wheel has a keyway and key.
> I've tightened the idler pully plate bolts, but I suspect there is rust
> going on under there, which will mean a full disassembly.
>
> Sigh...
>
> Bruce Whitmore
>
> (847) 404-5092 (mobile)
> bwhitm...@sbcglobal.net
>
>
> --
> *From:* Michael Brown via CnC-List 
> *To:* cnc-list@cnc-list.com
> *Cc:* Michael Brown 
> *Sent:* Wednesday, January 24, 2018 11:06 AM
> *Subject:* Re: Stus-List Edson wheel chain jumping links?
>
> If the radial wheel was slipping on the rudder post it could cause that
> issue.
> Maybe use a sharpie and put a line down the rudder post and onto the
> radial wheel.
> 20º is not much movement, you may require a fine line.
>
> Michael Brown
> Windburn
> C 30-1
>
>
>
> Date: Wed, 24 Jan 2018 01:54:12 + (UTC)
> From: Bruce Whitmore 
>
> Hello all,
>
> OK, I think I have a weird thing going here...
> I have adjusted the wheel to center the turks head knot straight up when
> the wheel is centered.? I got it all nice & straight a few weeks ago, and
> came back to the boat to find it about 20 degrees off to port.? By the way,
> were talking about 20% off on the wheel, not 20% of rudder. ? After
> installing my autopilot, I again adjusted it, this time getting the cables
> set to approximately the same amount of adjustment on each side to the
> adjustment bolts through the radial drive wheel.? This required jumping the
> chain 1 or 2 notches on the wheel sprocket.
> All was well for a couple weeks, and behold, on Saturday I went back only
> to find the turks head knot about 20 degrees to starboard.? During these
> adjustments, I have made a point to keep the cable deflection adjusted to
> be relatively minimal (say 1/2" or so?), without getting so tight as to
> reduce the feel of the wheel.? I've notice no issues whatsoever when we're
> out sailing.
>
> During the first set of adjustments, I noticed the idler wheel bolts were
> a little loose, and tightened those.?
>
> Considering the radial wheel bolts connect to each end of the cable, and
> the cables attach to the chain, I can only think the chain is somehow
> jumping on the sprocket.
> Thoughts?
> Bruce Whitmore
> 1994 C 37/40+, "Astralis"Madiera Beach, FL
> (847) 404-5092 (mobile)
> bwhitm...@sbcglobal.net
>
> __ _
>
> Thanks everyone for supporting this list with your contributions.  Each
> and every one is greatly appreciated.  If you want to support the list -
> use PayPal to send contribution --  https://www.paypal.me/ stumurray
> 
>
>
>
>
> 

Re: Stus-List Edson wheel chain jumping links?

[Bruce Whitmore via CnC-List]

And weirdly, the steering is very precise, with no sloppiness underway, and it 
happens when we're OFF the boat!
On a side note, when we leave the boat, I tie off the wheel just in case there 
is more current than the wheel brake can control.  This is done to keep the 
wheel from turning to the stops, and to prevent wheel brake wear. Our slip is 
in shallow water, and though we have never noticed the rudder touching bottom 
when we sleep on the boat, the keel stub will touch during low tides.  
Thankfully, we have a soft sand bottom.

Maybe the boat settles at low tide or a current comes by, pushes the rudder 
against the line ties, causes slack in the chain/wire rope, causing the chain 
to jump?  I have not tried to look at how slack the cable becomes when I hit 
the rudder stop.
The rust, however will have to be dealt with sooner rather than later...
Any further thoughts would be appreciated. Bruce Whitmore

(847) 404-5092 (mobile)
bwhitm...@sbcglobal.net


  From: Josh Muckley via CnC-List 
 To: C List  
Cc: Josh Muckley 
 Sent: Wednesday, January 24, 2018 11:20 AM
 Subject: Re: Stus-List Edson wheel chain jumping links?
   
I can pretty much assure you that there is rust.  What I can't explain is why 
the problem comes and goes and at such a prescribed amount.  The detrimental 
rust would also likely cause a looseness in the wheel and cables which would be 
quite perceptible.
Josh



On Jan 24, 2018 11:12 AM, "Bruce Whitmore via CnC-List"  
wrote:

Per Chuck's previous comments, the radial wheel has a keyway and key, so I 
don't think it can slip.  Similarly, the helm wheel has a keyway and key.  I've 
tightened the idler pully plate bolts, but I suspect there is rust going on 
under there, which will mean a full disassembly. 

Sigh...

Bruce Whitmore

(847) 404-5092 (mobile)
bwhitm...@sbcglobal.net


  From: Michael Brown via CnC-List 
 To: cnc-list@cnc-list.com 
Cc: Michael Brown 
 Sent: Wednesday, January 24, 2018 11:06 AM
 Subject: Re: Stus-List Edson wheel chain jumping links?
  
If the radial wheel was slipping on the rudder post it could cause that issue.
Maybe use a sharpie and put a line down the rudder post and onto the radial 
wheel.
20º is not much movement, you may require a fine line.

Michael Brown
Windburn
C 30-1

 

Date: Wed, 24 Jan 2018 01:54:12 + (UTC)
From: Bruce Whitmore 

Hello all, 

OK, I think I have a weird thing going here...
I have adjusted the wheel to center the turks head knot straight up when the 
wheel is centered.? I got it all nice & straight a few weeks ago, and came back 
to the boat to find it about 20 degrees off to port.? By the way, were talking 
about 20% off on the wheel, not 20% of rudder. ? After installing my autopilot, 
I again adjusted it, this time getting the cables set to approximately the same 
amount of adjustment on each side to the adjustment bolts through the radial 
drive wheel.? This required jumping the chain 1 or 2 notches on the wheel 
sprocket.
All was well for a couple weeks, and behold, on Saturday I went back only to 
find the turks head knot about 20 degrees to starboard.? During these 
adjustments, I have made a point to keep the cable deflection adjusted to be 
relatively minimal (say 1/2" or so?), without getting so tight as to reduce the 
feel of the wheel.? I've notice no issues whatsoever when we're out sailing. 

During the first set of adjustments, I noticed the idler wheel bolts were a 
little loose, and tightened those.? 

Considering the radial wheel bolts connect to each end of the cable, and the 
cables attach to the chain, I can only think the chain is somehow jumping on 
the sprocket.
Thoughts?
Bruce Whitmore
1994 C 37/40+, "Astralis"Madiera Beach, FL
(847) 404-5092 (mobile)
bwhitm...@sbcglobal.net


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Re: Stus-List "Maritime Documentation Center"

[Chuck Gilchrest via CnC-List]

If it is out of West Virginia, it may be a legit renewal notice from the US 
Coast Guard and I wouldn’t throw it away quite yet.

The “scammer” charges $75 per year for renewal while the Coast Guard charges 
$26 (or thereabouts).  Additionally, the Coast Guard makes you renew each year 
while the “service” offers multiple year renewals.

 

From: CnC-List [mailto:cnc-list-boun...@cnc-list.com] On Behalf Of Randy 
Stafford via CnC-List
Sent: Wednesday, January 24, 2018 10:42 AM
To: cnc-list@cnc-list.com
Cc: Randy Stafford 
Subject: Re: Stus-List "Maritime Documentation Center"

 

Yeah I got one of those in the mail the other day too.  It’s a different outfit 
than the one that scammed me last year. This “Marine Documentation Center” was 
out of Virginia, whereas “US Vessel Documentation” was out of California.  It’s 
a coast-to-coast racket.

 

Cheers,

Randy

 

On Jan 24, 2018, at 8:38 AM, Bill Coleman via CnC-List  > wrote:

 

Just got my EARLY supposed Documentation Renewal from the "Maritime 
Documentation Center"

 

I think the USCG must have taken heed of all the complaints, as these people 
have really toned down their ‘Renewal’

There is no amount to pay, and now little bits in there like , This is a 
courtesy notice,  This is not an invoice,  you are under no obligation to pay, 
etc – 

Things that were not in their notice in past years.

 

I am sure they will still snag some people who are either not paying attention, 
or are too busy to notice.

 

Bill Coleman

C 39 Erie, PA

 

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every one is greatly appreciated.  If you want to support the list - use PayPal 
to send contribution -- 
https://www.paypal.me/stumurray

 

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to send contribution --   https://www.paypal.me/stumurray

Re: Stus-List Edson wheel chain jumping links?

[Josh Muckley via CnC-List]

I can pretty much assure you that there is rust.  What I can't explain is
why the problem comes and goes and at such a prescribed amount.  The
detrimental rust would also likely cause a looseness in the wheel and
cables which would be quite perceptible.

Josh



On Jan 24, 2018 11:12 AM, "Bruce Whitmore via CnC-List" <
cnc-list@cnc-list.com> wrote:

> Per Chuck's previous comments, the radial wheel has a keyway and key, so I
> don't think it can slip.  Similarly, the helm wheel has a keyway and key.
> I've tightened the idler pully plate bolts, but I suspect there is rust
> going on under there, which will mean a full disassembly.
>
> Sigh...
>
> Bruce Whitmore
>
> (847) 404-5092 (mobile)
> bwhitm...@sbcglobal.net
>
>
> --
> *From:* Michael Brown via CnC-List 
> *To:* cnc-list@cnc-list.com
> *Cc:* Michael Brown 
> *Sent:* Wednesday, January 24, 2018 11:06 AM
> *Subject:* Re: Stus-List Edson wheel chain jumping links?
>
> If the radial wheel was slipping on the rudder post it could cause that
> issue.
> Maybe use a sharpie and put a line down the rudder post and onto the
> radial wheel.
> 20º is not much movement, you may require a fine line.
>
> Michael Brown
> Windburn
> C 30-1
>
>
>
> Date: Wed, 24 Jan 2018 01:54:12 + (UTC)
> From: Bruce Whitmore 
>
> Hello all,
>
> OK, I think I have a weird thing going here...
> I have adjusted the wheel to center the turks head knot straight up when
> the wheel is centered.? I got it all nice & straight a few weeks ago, and
> came back to the boat to find it about 20 degrees off to port.? By the way,
> were talking about 20% off on the wheel, not 20% of rudder. ? After
> installing my autopilot, I again adjusted it, this time getting the cables
> set to approximately the same amount of adjustment on each side to the
> adjustment bolts through the radial drive wheel.? This required jumping the
> chain 1 or 2 notches on the wheel sprocket.
> All was well for a couple weeks, and behold, on Saturday I went back only
> to find the turks head knot about 20 degrees to starboard.? During these
> adjustments, I have made a point to keep the cable deflection adjusted to
> be relatively minimal (say 1/2" or so?), without getting so tight as to
> reduce the feel of the wheel.? I've notice no issues whatsoever when we're
> out sailing.
>
> During the first set of adjustments, I noticed the idler wheel bolts were
> a little loose, and tightened those.?
>
> Considering the radial wheel bolts connect to each end of the cable, and
> the cables attach to the chain, I can only think the chain is somehow
> jumping on the sprocket.
> Thoughts?
> Bruce Whitmore
> 1994 C 37/40+, "Astralis"Madiera Beach, FL
> (847) 404-5092 (mobile)
> bwhitm...@sbcglobal.net
>
> ___
>
> Thanks everyone for supporting this list with your contributions.  Each
> and every one is greatly appreciated.  If you want to support the list -
> use PayPal to send contribution --  https://www.paypal.me/stumurray
>
>
>
>
> ___
>
> Thanks everyone for supporting this list with your contributions.  Each
> and every one is greatly appreciated.  If you want to support the list -
> use PayPal to send contribution --   https://www.paypal.me/stumurray
>
>
>
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Re: Stus-List Edson wheel chain jumping links?

[Bruce Whitmore via CnC-List]

Per Chuck's previous comments, the radial wheel has a keyway and key, so I 
don't think it can slip.  Similarly, the helm wheel has a keyway and key.  I've 
tightened the idler pully plate bolts, but I suspect there is rust going on 
under there, which will mean a full disassembly. 

Sigh...

Bruce Whitmore

(847) 404-5092 (mobile)
bwhitm...@sbcglobal.net


  From: Michael Brown via CnC-List 
 To: cnc-list@cnc-list.com 
Cc: Michael Brown 
 Sent: Wednesday, January 24, 2018 11:06 AM
 Subject: Re: Stus-List Edson wheel chain jumping links?
   
If the radial wheel was slipping on the rudder post it could cause that issue.
Maybe use a sharpie and put a line down the rudder post and onto the radial 
wheel.
20º is not much movement, you may require a fine line.

Michael Brown
Windburn
C 30-1

 

Date: Wed, 24 Jan 2018 01:54:12 + (UTC)
From: Bruce Whitmore 

Hello all, 

OK, I think I have a weird thing going here...
I have adjusted the wheel to center the turks head knot straight up when the 
wheel is centered.? I got it all nice & straight a few weeks ago, and came back 
to the boat to find it about 20 degrees off to port.? By the way, were talking 
about 20% off on the wheel, not 20% of rudder. ? After installing my autopilot, 
I again adjusted it, this time getting the cables set to approximately the same 
amount of adjustment on each side to the adjustment bolts through the radial 
drive wheel.? This required jumping the chain 1 or 2 notches on the wheel 
sprocket.
All was well for a couple weeks, and behold, on Saturday I went back only to 
find the turks head knot about 20 degrees to starboard.? During these 
adjustments, I have made a point to keep the cable deflection adjusted to be 
relatively minimal (say 1/2" or so?), without getting so tight as to reduce the 
feel of the wheel.? I've notice no issues whatsoever when we're out sailing. 

During the first set of adjustments, I noticed the idler wheel bolts were a 
little loose, and tightened those.? 

Considering the radial wheel bolts connect to each end of the cable, and the 
cables attach to the chain, I can only think the chain is somehow jumping on 
the sprocket.
Thoughts?
Bruce Whitmore
1994 C 37/40+, "Astralis"Madiera Beach, FL
(847) 404-5092 (mobile)
bwhitm...@sbcglobal.net


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Re: Stus-List "Maritime Documentation Center"

[Bill Coleman via CnC-List]

You are observant!

I do remember previously that they came from California,  this notice doesn’t 
even say where they are. They are just trying to get you to renew online.

 

Regards,

 

Bill Coleman

 

From: Randy Stafford [mailto:randal.staff...@icloud.com] 
Sent: Wednesday, January 24, 2018 10:42 AM
To: cnc-list@cnc-list.com
Cc: Bill Coleman
Subject: Re: Stus-List "Maritime Documentation Center"

 

Yeah I got one of those in the mail the other day too.  It’s a different outfit 
than the one that scammed me last year. This “Marine Documentation Center” was 
out of Virginia, whereas “US Vessel Documentation” was out of California.  It’s 
a coast-to-coast racket.

 

Cheers,

Randy

 

On Jan 24, 2018, at 8:38 AM, Bill Coleman via CnC-List  
wrote:

 

Just got my EARLY supposed Documentation Renewal from the "Maritime 
Documentation Center"

 

I think the USCG must have taken heed of all the complaints, as these people 
have really toned down their ‘Renewal’

There is no amount to pay, and now little bits in there like , This is a 
courtesy notice,  This is not an invoice,  you are under no obligation to pay, 
etc – 

Things that were not in their notice in past years.

 

I am sure they will still snag some people who are either not paying attention, 
or are too busy to notice.

 

Bill Coleman

C 39 Erie, PA

 

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every one is greatly appreciated.  If you want to support the list - use PayPal 
to send contribution -- 
https://www.paypal.me/stumurray

 

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Re: Stus-List Edson wheel chain jumping links?

[Michael Brown via CnC-List]

If the radial wheel was slipping on the rudder post it could cause that issue.
Maybe use a sharpie and put a line down the rudder post and onto the radial 
wheel.
20º is not much movement, you may require a fine line.

Michael Brown
Windburn
C 30-1

 

Date: Wed, 24 Jan 2018 01:54:12 + (UTC) 
From: Bruce Whitmore  

Hello all,  
 
OK, I think I have a weird thing going here... 
I have adjusted the wheel to center the turks head knot straight up when the 
wheel is centered.? I got it all nice & straight a few weeks ago, and came back 
to the boat to find it about 20 degrees off to port.? By the way, were talking 
about 20% off on the wheel, not 20% of rudder. ? After installing my autopilot, 
I again adjusted it, this time getting the cables set to approximately the same 
amount of adjustment on each side to the adjustment bolts through the radial 
drive wheel.? This required jumping the chain 1 or 2 notches on the wheel 
sprocket. 
All was well for a couple weeks, and behold, on Saturday I went back only to 
find the turks head knot about 20 degrees to starboard.? During these 
adjustments, I have made a point to keep the cable deflection adjusted to be 
relatively minimal (say 1/2" or so?), without getting so tight as to reduce the 
feel of the wheel.? I've notice no issues whatsoever when we're out sailing.  
 
During the first set of adjustments, I noticed the idler wheel bolts were a 
little loose, and tightened those.?  
 
Considering the radial wheel bolts connect to each end of the cable, and the 
cables attach to the chain, I can only think the chain is somehow jumping on 
the sprocket. 
Thoughts? 
Bruce Whitmore 
1994 C 37/40+, "Astralis"Madiera Beach, FL 
(847) 404-5092 (mobile) 
bwhitm...@sbcglobal.net 

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Re: Stus-List "Maritime Documentation Center"

[Randy Stafford via CnC-List]

Yeah I got one of those in the mail the other day too.  It’s a different outfit 
than the one that scammed me last year. This “Marine Documentation Center” was 
out of Virginia, whereas “US Vessel Documentation” was out of California.  It’s 
a coast-to-coast racket.

Cheers,
Randy

> On Jan 24, 2018, at 8:38 AM, Bill Coleman via CnC-List 
>  wrote:
> 
> Just got my EARLY supposed Documentation Renewal from the "Maritime 
> Documentation Center"
>  
> I think the USCG must have taken heed of all the complaints, as these people 
> have really toned down their ‘Renewal’
> There is no amount to pay, and now little bits in there like , This is a 
> courtesy notice,  This is not an invoice,  you are under no obligation to 
> pay, etc – 
> Things that were not in their notice in past years.
>  
> I am sure they will still snag some people who are either not paying 
> attention, or are too busy to notice.
>  
> Bill Coleman
> C 39 Erie, PA
>>  
> ___
> 
> Thanks everyone for supporting this list with your contributions.  Each and 
> every one is greatly appreciated.  If you want to support the list - use 
> PayPal to send contribution --   https://www.paypal.me/stumurray 
> 
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Stus-List "Maritime Documentation Center"

[Bill Coleman via CnC-List]

Just got my EARLY supposed Documentation Renewal from the "Maritime 
Documentation Center"

 

I think the USCG must have taken heed of all the complaints, as these people 
have really toned down their ‘Renewal’

There is no amount to pay, and now little bits in there like , This is a 
courtesy notice,  This is not an invoice,  you are under no obligation to pay, 
etc – 

Things that were not in their notice in past years.

 

I am sure they will still snag some people who are either not paying attention, 
or are too busy to notice.

 

Bill Coleman

C 39 Erie, PAanimated_favicon1

 

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Stus-List C build files

[Alex Giannelia via CnC-List]

They may reside with the Marine Museum in Kingston.

Alex Giannelia
C 35-II (1974) no 282
a...@airsensing.com

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Re: Stus-List Edson wheel chain jumping links?

[Chuck Gilchrest via CnC-List]

Several things to consider:
1. If the cables are tensioned correctly, it is nearly impossible for the chain 
to jump teeth on the sprocket unless the sprocket teeth are broken.  You should 
have no more than 1/2” deflection for every 3’ of unsupported cable.  Tighten 
as necessary.
2. Make sure both adjuster and lock nuts are on the same side of the radial 
wheel.  Loosen the lock nut, adjust tension using the inboard nut and then lock 
in place with the outer nut. Putting the nuts on either side of the wheel 
allows the nuts to slip and lose tension.
3. Thoroughly inspect the idler assembly.  Tighten idler upright positioning 
nuts to assure proper alignment with the radial wheel.  Check for corrosion 
related flex in the idler plate under tension.  Replace worn bronze idler axles 
with stainless pins and check bearings or bushings for wear and side to side 
play.
4. Cables and chain should align on the sprocket with equal lengths on each 
side.  Mark the center of the chain with a sharpie marker and align with the 
Turks head knot or king spoke and wheel shaft key.   If it shifts position, the 
chain is hopping teeth on the sprocket and the sprocket should be replaced.
Those are really the only variables since the sprocket is keyed to the wheel 
shaft and the radial wheel is keyed to the rudder post.
Chuck Gilchrest 
S/V Half Magic
1983 35 Landfall 
Padanaram MA

Sent from my iPhone

> On Jan 23, 2018, at 9:30 PM, Josh Muckley via CnC-List 
>  wrote:
> 
> Confusing and concerning.  Whatever it is, be sure to get it sorted out.  
> Anything problematic with the steering can't be good.
> 
> Josh Muckley
> S/V Sea Hawk
> 1989 C 37+
> Solomons, MD 
> 
>> On Jan 23, 2018 8:55 PM, "Bruce Whitmore via CnC-List" 
>>  wrote:
>> Hello all, 
>> 
>> OK, I think I have a weird thing going here...
>> 
>> I have adjusted the wheel to center the turks head knot straight up when the 
>> wheel is centered.  I got it all nice & straight a few weeks ago, and came 
>> back to the boat to find it about 20 degrees off to port.  By the way, were 
>> talking about 20% off on the wheel, not 20% of rudder.   After installing my 
>> autopilot, I again adjusted it, this time getting the cables set to 
>> approximately the same amount of adjustment on each side to the adjustment 
>> bolts through the radial drive wheel.  This required jumping the chain 1 or 
>> 2 notches on the wheel sprocket.
>> 
>> All was well for a couple weeks, and behold, on Saturday I went back only to 
>> find the turks head knot about 20 degrees to starboard.  During these 
>> adjustments, I have made a point to keep the cable deflection adjusted to be 
>> relatively minimal (say 1/2" or so?), without getting so tight as to reduce 
>> the feel of the wheel.  I've notice no issues whatsoever when we're out 
>> sailing. 
>> 
>> During the first set of adjustments, I noticed the idler wheel bolts were a 
>> little loose, and tightened those.  
>> 
>> Considering the radial wheel bolts connect to each end of the cable, and the 
>> cables attach to the chain, I can only think the chain is somehow jumping on 
>> the sprocket.
>> 
>> Thoughts?
>> Bruce Whitmore
>> 1994 C 37/40+, "Astralis"
>> Madiera Beach, FL
>> (847) 404-5092 (mobile)
>> bwhitm...@sbcglobal.net
>> 
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