Stus-List Potential "Next" Boat - Keel Issue

2020-09-29 Thread RLT via CnC-List 
Regarding the Keel issue.  If she took a hard grounding, likely rocks you are looking at radiating damage from the point of impact.  My experience was on a J29, hitting a rock solid on the front of the keel.  Stopped us dead from 5 it?s to 0. Keel stub bedding did not let go, but we did have deformation in the lead keel from the bolts plus the impact in the lead.  Action there was a replacement of the keel.  Friends boat, C&C 36, didn?t have the same good luck.  Rocks again, but keel was pushed up, cracking the stringers, and the hull, some water seepage due to impact, but the boat was not structurally sound.  Hauled and she was repaired but not after extensive work was done to repair the structural integrity.My advice, what does your ?gut? tell you?If it were a car, and you can see there was undisclosed damage but you couldn?t tell what extent but it looked relatively substantial, what would you do.  Me, i would walk away. You are likely looking at a bill of $10K or more.  This is not just a marine survey, a lot of exploratory work would need to be done to ensure the structural integrity, again.  there will be other boats..BobC&C 121(On my 3rd C&C)On Mon, Sep 28, 2020 at 5:06 PM  wrote:Send CnC-List mailing list submissions to	cnc-list@cnc-list.comTo subscribe or unsubscribe via email, send a message with subject orbody 'help' to	cnc-list-requ...@cnc-list.comYou can reach the person managing the list at	cnc-list-ow...@cnc-list.comWhen replying, please edit your Subject line so it is more specificthan "Re: Contents of CnC-List digest..."Today's Topics:   1. Re: Potential "Next" Boat - Keel Issue ?'s (Marek Dziedzic)   2. Re: Potential "Next" Boat - Keel Issue ?'s (Bill Coleman)--Date: Mon, 28 Sep 2020 21:03:42 +From: Marek Dziedzic Subject: Stus-List Re: Potential "Next" Boat - Keel Issue ?'sTo: Stus-List Message-ID:  DM6PR02MB6541.nam	prd02.prod.outlook.com>Content-Type: multipart/alternative;boundary="_000_DM6PR02MB6541E1	CA3E0CFCB560073220CE350DM6PR02MB6541namp_"--_000_DM6PR02MB6541E1CA3E0CFCB560073220CE350DM6PR02MB6541namp_Content-Type: text/plain; charset="Windows-1252"Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printableAnything can be repaired,  but I wouldn't undertake that job - I would walk= away. It is quite possible that the structural stringers in the bottom of =the hull have been broken.On the other hand, if you can verify that structurally everything is sound,= it might just need some patching and fairing. Unfortunately, the bottom wa=s painted  - possibly to hide the damage.MarekOttawa On Original message From: nausetbe...@optonline.netDate: 2020-09-28 16:47 (GMT-05:00)To: 'Stus-List' Subject: Stus-List Potential "Next" Boat - Keel Issue ?'sI looked at a boat yesterday that seemed like a good contender for a =93nex=t=94 boat, right up until just prior to leaving I looked more closely at th=e keel and found something that does not look particularly good.  I am hopi=ng for some sage advice from the list, as in a) walk away, or b) might be r=epaired, and if so what would be entailed and is it worth it.  This would h=ave to be on the current owner=92s tab, or a very hefty discount in the pri=ce.I tried to attach low res pics but that exceeded the list max message size,= so here is a link I hope works:https://photos.google.com/share/AF1QipNHJ22k8kS3ukfBzXz67enViRMDw3GAOASwiS4=9uupKViTIDFeNzLj1LE_pav81Yw?key=3DQkR1X0FXWlgyclBzY1JYcUtIckRJRGh3dzIyMURRThe keel has a fairly significant crack extending at least 18=94 aft from t=he leading edge.  [The bottom was recently painted and I did not try to fol=low it further aft.]  That gap [in the attached photos] is at least 3/8=94 =on the horizontal axis and about =BC=94 on the vertical.  The trailing edge= has some cracks which are not overly visible, again due to the bottom pain=t.  Unfortunately I did not look closely at / around the keel bolts, nor do= I have any internal photos, as I noticed this after the boat was closed up=.  The boat is 4 =BD hours away so getting more photos is not feasible.To my untrained eye it appears there was a hard grounding and the keel almo=st seems to have shifted aft in addition to down, based on the angle of the= line from the fairing of the hull down to the leading edge of the keel.  B=ut there does not appear to be any movement aft at the trailing edge, thoug=h possibly it was punched up.  This does not appear to be along the sump / =keel joint as the crack is angled upwards and is not horizontal.  The owner= claims there have been no hard groundings when asked directly, only a hand=ful of soft groundings, predominantly in sand, but I have read even that ca=n do damage.  The boat was recently under contract and surveyed and that bu=yer decided against going forward.  The reasons given by the broker did not= include any mention of damage revealed during the survey.  I do not have a= copy of that buyers survey.Any thoughts on what

Stus-List Propane Locker - C&C 30 MK1

2020-09-29 Thread djmorris 
Any suggestions on how to best and, one hopes economically retrofit a 1975
C&C 30 MK1 for safe LPG storage? Off-the-shelf lockers start in the $1k
range and would consume more of a cockpit locker than I'd prefer to
surrender. I've yet to see an off-the-transom approach that doesn't rob from
the elegance of the boat's design. I know the safety regs, my question is
around physical space.  

 

David J. Morris, MBA
President, D.J. Morris & Associates Ltd.
24 St. Paul's Place, Kingston, ON  K7M 7S3

Tel. 613-531-4429
email:   djmor...@djma-ltd.com
Member: Canadian Freelance Guild

Blogging at:  
http://davidmorrisjourneys.wordpress.com/

 



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Stus-List Re: Propane Locker - C&C 30 MK1

2020-09-29 Thread Jeff Nelson 
Yes, I built one for mine.  I made a mold out of plywood, fiberglassed 
it.  I used a pre-made

deck hatch like this one:
https://www.amazon.ca/Amarine-made-ACCESS-Marine-Caravan-White/dp/B06XW43PFP/ref=pd_lpo_200_img_2/143-2957886-3052127?_encoding=UTF8&pd_rd_i=B06XW43PFP&pd_rd_r=2479d6c9-6b49-4094-8f07-57eab3013810&pd_rd_w=32BXM&pd_rd_wg=3lgQ3&pf_rd_p=256a14b6-93bc-4bcd-9f68-aea60d2878b9&pf_rd_r=VN55R5926N6HCE1GNETF&psc=1&refRID=VN55R5926N6HCE1GNETF

Which was just big enough for a 10 lb propane take and 3 singles to fit 
in for the Barbie.
I then just cut the hole and sealed hatch and fabricated box to locker.  
I vented the bottom out the
side (which I know is not really right as it will be under water on 1 
tack)but so would aft on all tacks.


I can't remember the dimensions, but if you play around with some 
plywood, tank and deck lid you
can figure out the smallest dimension that will work for you.  I made 
the lip about 2 inches to give lots of
space to support it to the locker bottom.  Then some epoxy and screws to 
ensure it stayed tight with no leaks.
I think I dressed the inside of the lip with more fiberglass.  In theory 
propane should never leak out the top
anyway, assuming the vent in the bottom is blocked...but wanted to make 
sure there were no leaks other than

the vent that was supposed to drain away propane.

Hope this helps.  If I remember I can take some pics when I'm at the 
boat next.


Cheers,
   Jeff Nelson
   Muir Caileag
  C&C 30 Mk 1
  0549 - 1979
On 2020-09-29 7:53 a.m., djmor...@djma-ltd.com wrote:


Any suggestions on how to best and, one hopes economically retrofit a 
1975 C&C 30 MK1 for safe LPG storage? Off-the-shelf lockers start in 
the $1k range and would consume more of a cockpit locker than I’d 
prefer to surrender. I’ve yet to see an off-the-transom approach that 
doesn’t rob from the elegance of the boat’s design. I know the safety 
regs, my question is around physical space.


David J. Morris, MBA
President, D.J. Morris & Associates Ltd.
24 St. Paul’s Place, Kingston, ON  K7M 7S3**

Tel. 613-531-4429
email: djmor...@djma-ltd.com 
Member: Canadian Freelance Guild

Blogging at: http://davidmorrisjourneys.wordpress.com/ 






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Stus-List Re: Propane Locker - C&C 30 MK1

2020-09-29 Thread pete.shelquist 
I'm not aware of what fuel source you have now, but have you considered CNG?
Sometimes a little harder to find a place to fill the tank, but would remove
the need for a separate locker. 

 

 

From: djmor...@djma-ltd.com  
Sent: Tuesday, September 29, 2020 5:53 AM
To: cnc-list@cnc-list.com
Subject: Stus-List Propane Locker - C&C 30 MK1

 

Any suggestions on how to best and, one hopes economically retrofit a 1975
C&C 30 MK1 for safe LPG storage? Off-the-shelf lockers start in the $1k
range and would consume more of a cockpit locker than I'd prefer to
surrender. I've yet to see an off-the-transom approach that doesn't rob from
the elegance of the boat's design. I know the safety regs, my question is
around physical space.  

 

David J. Morris, MBA
President, D.J. Morris & Associates Ltd.
24 St. Paul's Place, Kingston, ON  K7M 7S3

Tel. 613-531-4429
email: djmor...@djma-ltd.com  
Member: Canadian Freelance Guild

Blogging at: http://davidmorrisjourneys.wordpress.com/

 

 

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Stus-List Re: Propane Locker - C&C 30 MK1

2020-09-29 Thread djmorris 
Hi Jeff. Many thanks for taking the time to respond. May I ask where you
mounted the locker? 

 

A friend with a 1984 30 MK1 has his locker hanging between his starboard
cockpit locker and the transom, accessible from above (i.e. from the
cockpit), with a lid that looks very much like an anchor chain locker lid.
It looks like it was manufactured into the hull as opposed to being a
retrofit. It did occur to me to use one of the hatch covers like you
suggested, but my fabrication skills aren't such that I'd be able to fashion
the sort of drainage gutter like he has around the top of the propane locker
hatch. 

 

An interesting downside to my friend's setup is that he can't access the
transom from his starboard locker. He's not a big guy, but he can't crawl
back between the propane locker and gas tank. He didn't know there was a
rudder grease cap on the starboard side until I mentioned it to him. He had
to pack the cap somewhat blindly from the port side).  

 

Again my thanks for your advice.

 

David  

 

 

From: Jeff Nelson  
Sent: Tuesday, September 29, 2020 7:41 AM
To: cnc-list@cnc-list.com
Subject: Stus-List Re: Propane Locker - C&C 30 MK1

 

Yes, I built one for mine.  I made a mold out of plywood, fiberglassed it.
I used a pre-made
deck hatch like this one:
https://www.amazon.ca/Amarine-made-ACCESS-Marine-Caravan-White/dp/B06XW43PFP
/ref=pd_lpo_200_img_2/143-2957886-3052127?_encoding=UTF8

&pd_rd_i=B06XW43PFP&pd_rd_r=2479d6c9-6b49-4094-8f07-57eab3013810&pd_rd_w=32B
XM&pd_rd_wg=3lgQ3&pf_rd_p=256a14b6-93bc-4bcd-9f68-aea60d2878b9&pf_rd_r=VN55R
5926N6HCE1GNETF&psc=1&refRID=VN55R5926N6HCE1GNETF

Which was just big enough for a 10 lb propane take and 3 singles to fit in
for the Barbie.
I then just cut the hole and sealed hatch and fabricated box to locker.  I
vented the bottom out the 
side (which I know is not really right as it will be under water on 1
tack)but so would aft on all tacks.

I can't remember the dimensions, but if you play around with some plywood,
tank and deck lid you
can figure out the smallest dimension that will work for you.  I made the
lip about 2 inches to give lots of
space to support it to the locker bottom.  Then some epoxy and screws to
ensure it stayed tight with no leaks.
I think I dressed the inside of the lip with more fiberglass.  In theory
propane should never leak out the top
anyway, assuming the vent in the bottom is blocked...but wanted to make sure
there were no leaks other than
the vent that was supposed to drain away propane.

Hope this helps.  If I remember I can take some pics when I'm at the boat
next.

Cheers,
   Jeff Nelson
   Muir Caileag
  C&C 30 Mk 1 
  0549 - 1979

On 2020-09-29 7:53 a.m., djmor...@djma-ltd.com
  wrote:

Any suggestions on how to best and, one hopes economically retrofit a 1975
C&C 30 MK1 for safe LPG storage? Off-the-shelf lockers start in the $1k
range and would consume more of a cockpit locker than I'd prefer to
surrender. I've yet to see an off-the-transom approach that doesn't rob from
the elegance of the boat's design. I know the safety regs, my question is
around physical space.  

 

David J. Morris, MBA
President, D.J. Morris & Associates Ltd.
24 St. Paul's Place, Kingston, ON  K7M 7S3

Tel. 613-531-4429
email:   djmor...@djma-ltd.com
Member: Canadian Freelance Guild

Blogging at:  
http://davidmorrisjourneys.wordpress.com/

 

 

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Stus-List Re: Propane Locker - C&C 30 MK1

2020-09-29 Thread Ken Heaton 
Are you up to cutting a hole in one of the cockpit seats aft of the wheel
and building your own locker into that?  It is wasted space on the 35 Mk.1
as I remember.  You could put one of the skinny tanks in there I think,
with perhaps a cover made from the top you cut off the seat to make the
opening?  A 10 lb steel tank is only 9" in dia.

Ken H.

On Tue, 29 Sep 2020 at 07:53,  wrote:

> Any suggestions on how to best and, one hopes economically retrofit a 1975
> C&C 30 MK1 for safe LPG storage? Off-the-shelf lockers start in the $1k
> range and would consume more of a cockpit locker than I’d prefer to
> surrender. I’ve yet to see an off-the-transom approach that doesn’t rob
> from the elegance of the boat’s design. I know the safety regs, my question
> is around physical space.
>
>
>
> David J. Morris, MBA
> President, D.J. Morris & Associates Ltd.
> 24 St. Paul’s Place, Kingston, ON  K7M 7S3
>
> Tel. 613-531-4429
> email: djmor...@djma-ltd.com
> Member: Canadian Freelance Guild
>
> Blogging at: http://davidmorrisjourneys.wordpress.com/
>
>
>
>
> --
> [image: Avast logo] 
>
> This email has been checked for viruses by Avast antivirus software.
> www.avast.com 
>
> <#m_8620281692932439100_DAB4FAD8-2DD7-40BB-A1B8-4E2AA1F9FDF2>
> ___
>
> Thanks everyone for supporting this list with your contributions.  Each
> and every one is greatly appreciated.  If you want to support the list -
> use PayPal to send contribution --   https://www.paypal.me/stumurray
>
>
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Thanks everyone for supporting this list with your contributions.  Each and 
every one is greatly appreciated.  If you want to support the list - use PayPal 
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Stus-List Re: Propane Locker - C&C 30 MK1

2020-09-29 Thread CHARLES SCHEAFFER 
Just a thought.  A propane locker needs a drain to relieve any heavier than air 
propane gas, so a gutter around the lid  is nice to have but not necessary.  
Any rain getting into the locker will simply run out the drain. 

Chuck

> On 09/29/2020 8:05 AM djmor...@djma-ltd.com wrote:
> 
> 
> 
> Hi Jeff. Many thanks for taking the time to respond. May I ask where you 
> mounted the locker?
> 
> 
> A friend with a 1984 30 MK1 has his locker hanging between his starboard 
> cockpit locker and the transom, accessible from above (i.e. from the 
> cockpit), with a lid that looks very much like an anchor chain locker lid. It 
> looks like it was manufactured into the hull as opposed to being a retrofit. 
> It did occur to me to use one of the hatch covers like you suggested, but my 
> fabrication skills aren’t such that I’d be able to fashion the sort of 
> drainage gutter like he has around the top of the propane locker hatch.
> 
> 
> An interesting downside to my friend’s setup is that he can’t access the 
> transom from his starboard locker. He’s not a big guy, but he can’t crawl 
> back between the propane locker and gas tank. He didn’t know there was a 
> rudder grease cap on the starboard side until I mentioned it to him. He had 
> to pack the cap somewhat blindly from the port side).  
> 
> 
> Again my thanks for your advice.
> 
> 
> David 
> 
> 
> 
> From: Jeff Nelson 
> Sent: Tuesday, September 29, 2020 7:41 AM
> To: cnc-list@cnc-list.com
> Subject: Stus-List Re: Propane Locker - C&C 30 MK1
> 
> 
> Yes, I built one for mine.  I made a mold out of plywood, fiberglassed 
> it.  I used a pre-made
> deck hatch like this one:
> 
> https://www.amazon.ca/Amarine-made-ACCESS-Marine-Caravan-White/dp/B06XW43PFP/ref=pd_lpo_200_img_2/143-2957886-3052127?_encoding=UTF8&pd_rd_i=B06XW43PFP&pd_rd_r=2479d6c9-6b49-4094-8f07-57eab3013810&pd_rd_w=32BXM&pd_rd_wg=3lgQ3&pf_rd_p=256a14b6-93bc-4bcd-9f68-aea60d2878b9&pf_rd_r=VN55R5926N6HCE1GNETF&psc=1&refRID=VN55R5926N6HCE1GNETF
> 
> Which was just big enough for a 10 lb propane take and 3 singles to fit 
> in for the Barbie.
> I then just cut the hole and sealed hatch and fabricated box to locker.  
> I vented the bottom out the
> side (which I know is not really right as it will be under water on 1 
> tack)but so would aft on all tacks.
> 
> I can't remember the dimensions, but if you play around with some 
> plywood, tank and deck lid you
> can figure out the smallest dimension that will work for you.  I made the 
> lip about 2 inches to give lots of
> space to support it to the locker bottom.  Then some epoxy and screws to 
> ensure it stayed tight with no leaks.
> I think I dressed the inside of the lip with more fiberglass.  In theory 
> propane should never leak out the top
> anyway, assuming the vent in the bottom is blocked...but wanted to make 
> sure there were no leaks other than
> the vent that was supposed to drain away propane.
> 
> Hope this helps.  If I remember I can take some pics when I'm at the boat 
> next.
> 
> Cheers,
>Jeff Nelson
>Muir Caileag
>   C&C 30 Mk 1
>   0549 - 1979
> 
> On 2020-09-29 7:53 a.m., djmor...@djma-ltd.com 
> mailto:djmor...@djma-ltd.com wrote:
> 
> > > 
> > Any suggestions on how to best and, one hopes economically retrofit 
> > a 1975 C&C 30 MK1 for safe LPG storage? Off-the-shelf lockers start in the 
> > $1k range and would consume more of a cockpit locker than I’d prefer to 
> > surrender. I’ve yet to see an off-the-transom approach that doesn’t rob 
> > from the elegance of the boat’s design. I know the safety regs, my question 
> > is around physical space.  
> > 
> > 
> > David J. Morris, MBA
> > President, D.J. Morris & Associates Ltd.
> > 24 St. Paul’s Place, Kingston, ON  K7M 7S3
> > 
> > Tel. 613-531-4429
> > email: djmor...@djma-ltd.com mailto:djmor...@djma-ltd.com
> > Member: Canadian Freelance Guild
> > 
> > Blogging at: http://davidmorrisjourneys.wordpress.com/ 
> > http://davidmorrisjourneys.wordpress.com/
> > 
> > 
> > 
> > 
> > -
> > 
> > [Avast logo] https://www.avast.com/antivirus
> > 
> > This email has been checked for viruses by Avast antivirus software.
> > www.avast.com https://www.avast.com/antivirus
> > 
> > 
> > 
> > 
> > 
> > ___
> > 
> > 
> > Thanks everyone for supporting this list with your contributions.  
> > Each and every one is greatly appreciated.  If you want to support the list 
> > - use PayPal to send contribution --   https://www.paypal.me/stumurray
> > 
> > 
> > > 
> 
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> 
> Thanks everyone for supporting this list with your contributions. Each 
> and every one is greatly appreciated. If you want to sup

Stus-List Re: Potential "Next" Boat - Keel Issue ?'s

2020-09-29 Thread Matthew 
I would not purchase unless someone with expertise took a close look, and I
wouldn’t bother with that unless you really like this particular boat.  I
would also ask the current owner about it.

 

On my 42, I had a gap open up in the same area, although the lead did not
appear to be shifted aft.  There is a naval architect in town that either
worked or interned at C&C back in the 70s, and he was unconcerned.  What
looked to me like a big problem was attributable to filler material used in
that forward area, according to this expert.  I tightened everything up and
filled the gap with a West System mixture (probably colloidal silica), and
the gap has not returned. 

 

From: nausetbe...@optonline.net  
Sent: Monday, September 28, 2020 4:48 PM
To: 'Stus-List' 
Subject: Stus-List Potential "Next" Boat - Keel Issue ?'s

 

I looked at a boat yesterday that seemed like a good contender for a “next”
boat, right up until just prior to leaving I looked more closely at the keel
and found something that does not look particularly good.  I am hoping for
some sage advice from the list, as in a) walk away, or b) might be repaired,
and if so what would be entailed and is it worth it.  This would have to be
on the current owner’s tab, or a very hefty discount in the price.  

 

I tried to attach low res pics but that exceeded the list max message size,
so here is a link I hope works:  

 

https://photos.google.com/share/AF1QipNHJ22k8kS3ukfBzXz67enViRMDw3GAOASwiS49
uupKViTIDFeNzLj1LE_pav81Yw?key=QkR1X0FXWlgyclBzY1JYcUtIckRJRGh3dzIyMURR

 

The keel has a fairly significant crack extending at least 18” aft from the
leading edge.  [The bottom was recently painted and I did not try to follow
it further aft.]  That gap [in the attached photos] is at least 3/8” on the
horizontal axis and about ¼” on the vertical.  The trailing edge has some
cracks which are not overly visible, again due to the bottom paint.
Unfortunately I did not look closely at / around the keel bolts, nor do I
have any internal photos, as I noticed this after the boat was closed up.
The boat is 4 ½ hours away so getting more photos is not feasible.  

 

To my untrained eye it appears there was a hard grounding and the keel
almost seems to have shifted aft in addition to down, based on the angle of
the line from the fairing of the hull down to the leading edge of the keel.
But there does not appear to be any movement aft at the trailing edge,
though possibly it was punched up.  This does not appear to be along the
sump / keel joint as the crack is angled upwards and is not horizontal.  The
owner claims there have been no hard groundings when asked directly, only a
handful of soft groundings, predominantly in sand, but I have read even that
can do damage.  The boat was recently under contract and surveyed and that
buyer decided against going forward.  The reasons given by the broker did
not include any mention of damage revealed during the survey.  I do not have
a copy of that buyers survey.  

 

Any thoughts on what would need to be done to remedy this, or am I better
off to move on and keep looking?  Should the keel be dropped and the keel
bolts examined?  Or would there be other, less intrusive / expensive fixes
which would be sufficient and safe?  I realize it is difficult to really
determine the best repair without physically examining the boat but any
advice on what likely would be required is appreciated.  

 

Thanks, 

Brian

 

 

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Stus-List Re: Propane Locker - C&C 30 MK1

2020-09-29 Thread Jeff Nelson 
I put mine in starboard locker aft, next to the wheel, slightly aft of 
it.  Basically,
where I could get a large enough section of square seat to fit the hatch 
cover in.
There is enough space below it for me to still wiggle in to gain access 
to my quadrant.


On 2020-09-29 9:05 a.m., djmor...@djma-ltd.com wrote:


Hi Jeff. Many thanks for taking the time to respond. May I ask where 
you mounted the locker?


A friend with a 1984 30 MK1 has his locker hanging between his 
starboard cockpit locker and the transom, accessible from above (i.e. 
from the cockpit), with a lid that looks very much like an anchor 
chain locker lid. It looks like it was manufactured into the hull as 
opposed to being a retrofit. It did occur to me to use one of the 
hatch covers like you suggested, but my fabrication skills aren’t such 
that I’d be able to fashion the sort of drainage gutter like he has 
around the top of the propane locker hatch.


An interesting downside to my friend’s setup is that he can’t access 
the transom from his starboard locker. He’s not a big guy, but he 
can’t crawl back between the propane locker and gas tank. He didn’t 
know there was a rudder grease cap on the starboard side until I 
mentioned it to him. He had to pack the cap somewhat blindly from the 
port side).


Again my thanks for your advice.

David

*From:* Jeff Nelson 
*Sent:* Tuesday, September 29, 2020 7:41 AM
*To:* cnc-list@cnc-list.com
*Subject:* Stus-List Re: Propane Locker - C&C 30 MK1

Yes, I built one for mine.  I made a mold out of plywood, fiberglassed 
it.  I used a pre-made

deck hatch like this one:
https://www.amazon.ca/Amarine-made-ACCESS-Marine-Caravan-White/dp/B06XW43PFP/ref=pd_lpo_200_img_2/143-2957886-3052127?_encoding=UTF8&pd_rd_i=B06XW43PFP&pd_rd_r=2479d6c9-6b49-4094-8f07-57eab3013810&pd_rd_w=32BXM&pd_rd_wg=3lgQ3&pf_rd_p=256a14b6-93bc-4bcd-9f68-aea60d2878b9&pf_rd_r=VN55R5926N6HCE1GNETF&psc=1&refRID=VN55R5926N6HCE1GNETF 



Which was just big enough for a 10 lb propane take and 3 singles to 
fit in for the Barbie.
I then just cut the hole and sealed hatch and fabricated box to 
locker.  I vented the bottom out the
side (which I know is not really right as it will be under water on 1 
tack)but so would aft on all tacks.


I can't remember the dimensions, but if you play around with some 
plywood, tank and deck lid you
can figure out the smallest dimension that will work for you. I made 
the lip about 2 inches to give lots of
space to support it to the locker bottom.  Then some epoxy and screws 
to ensure it stayed tight with no leaks.
I think I dressed the inside of the lip with more fiberglass. In 
theory propane should never leak out the top
anyway, assuming the vent in the bottom is blocked...but wanted to 
make sure there were no leaks other than

the vent that was supposed to drain away propane.

Hope this helps.  If I remember I can take some pics when I'm at the 
boat next.


Cheers,
   Jeff Nelson
   Muir Caileag
  C&C 30 Mk 1
  0549 - 1979

On 2020-09-29 7:53 a.m., djmor...@djma-ltd.com 
 wrote:


Any suggestions on how to best and, one hopes economically
retrofit a 1975 C&C 30 MK1 for safe LPG storage? Off-the-shelf
lockers start in the $1k range and would consume more of a cockpit
locker than I’d prefer to surrender. I’ve yet to see an
off-the-transom approach that doesn’t rob from the elegance of the
boat’s design. I know the safety regs, my question is around
physical space.

David J. Morris, MBA
President, D.J. Morris & Associates Ltd.
24 St. Paul’s Place, Kingston, ON  K7M 7S3

Tel. 613-531-4429
email: djmor...@djma-ltd.com 
Member: Canadian Freelance Guild

Blogging at: http://davidmorrisjourneys.wordpress.com/




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one is greatly appreciated.  If you want to support the list - use PayPal to send 
contribution --https://www.paypal.me/stumurray  



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Stus-List Re: Propane Locker - C&C 30 MK1

2020-09-29 Thread Jeff Nelson 
As mentioned elsewhere, there isn't a need for a gutter.  Propane is 
heavier than air so
it sinks through the vent in the bottom.  Just need to ensure a tight 
fit between your
manufactured box and the bought lid.  Epoxy will take care of that. I 
used the bolts to
hold it in place while the epoxy cured.  It's a pretty simple build as 
it's just a square
box with a flange on top screwed together and then covered with 
fiberglass.  I mixed
some epoxy and west 410 fairing microfibers into something like drywall 
mud and used that
to fair out the fiberglass to create a smooth surface.  Then you can 
paint white or white

with a titch of yellow to match your deck.

You can always put an extension on the grease fitting to bring it out.  
I'm still slender enough
to get back there and my Daughter who sails and races with me should be 
able to fit for years

to come.  lol.

On 2020-09-29 9:05 a.m., djmor...@djma-ltd.com wrote:


Hi Jeff. Many thanks for taking the time to respond. May I ask where 
you mounted the locker?


A friend with a 1984 30 MK1 has his locker hanging between his 
starboard cockpit locker and the transom, accessible from above (i.e. 
from the cockpit), with a lid that looks very much like an anchor 
chain locker lid. It looks like it was manufactured into the hull as 
opposed to being a retrofit. It did occur to me to use one of the 
hatch covers like you suggested, but my fabrication skills aren’t such 
that I’d be able to fashion the sort of drainage gutter like he has 
around the top of the propane locker hatch.


An interesting downside to my friend’s setup is that he can’t access 
the transom from his starboard locker. He’s not a big guy, but he 
can’t crawl back between the propane locker and gas tank. He didn’t 
know there was a rudder grease cap on the starboard side until I 
mentioned it to him. He had to pack the cap somewhat blindly from the 
port side).


Again my thanks for your advice.

David

*From:* Jeff Nelson 
*Sent:* Tuesday, September 29, 2020 7:41 AM
*To:* cnc-list@cnc-list.com
*Subject:* Stus-List Re: Propane Locker - C&C 30 MK1

Yes, I built one for mine.  I made a mold out of plywood, fiberglassed 
it.  I used a pre-made

deck hatch like this one:
https://www.amazon.ca/Amarine-made-ACCESS-Marine-Caravan-White/dp/B06XW43PFP/ref=pd_lpo_200_img_2/143-2957886-3052127?_encoding=UTF8&pd_rd_i=B06XW43PFP&pd_rd_r=2479d6c9-6b49-4094-8f07-57eab3013810&pd_rd_w=32BXM&pd_rd_wg=3lgQ3&pf_rd_p=256a14b6-93bc-4bcd-9f68-aea60d2878b9&pf_rd_r=VN55R5926N6HCE1GNETF&psc=1&refRID=VN55R5926N6HCE1GNETF 



Which was just big enough for a 10 lb propane take and 3 singles to 
fit in for the Barbie.
I then just cut the hole and sealed hatch and fabricated box to 
locker.  I vented the bottom out the
side (which I know is not really right as it will be under water on 1 
tack)but so would aft on all tacks.


I can't remember the dimensions, but if you play around with some 
plywood, tank and deck lid you
can figure out the smallest dimension that will work for you. I made 
the lip about 2 inches to give lots of
space to support it to the locker bottom.  Then some epoxy and screws 
to ensure it stayed tight with no leaks.
I think I dressed the inside of the lip with more fiberglass. In 
theory propane should never leak out the top
anyway, assuming the vent in the bottom is blocked...but wanted to 
make sure there were no leaks other than

the vent that was supposed to drain away propane.

Hope this helps.  If I remember I can take some pics when I'm at the 
boat next.


Cheers,
   Jeff Nelson
   Muir Caileag
  C&C 30 Mk 1
  0549 - 1979

On 2020-09-29 7:53 a.m., djmor...@djma-ltd.com 
 wrote:


Any suggestions on how to best and, one hopes economically
retrofit a 1975 C&C 30 MK1 for safe LPG storage? Off-the-shelf
lockers start in the $1k range and would consume more of a cockpit
locker than I’d prefer to surrender. I’ve yet to see an
off-the-transom approach that doesn’t rob from the elegance of the
boat’s design. I know the safety regs, my question is around
physical space.

David J. Morris, MBA
President, D.J. Morris & Associates Ltd.
24 St. Paul’s Place, Kingston, ON  K7M 7S3

Tel. 613-531-4429
email: djmor...@djma-ltd.com 
Member: Canadian Freelance Guild

Blogging at: http://davidmorrisjourneys.wordpress.com/




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Stus-List Re: [SUSPICIOUS MSG: 1] [SUSPICIOUS MSG: 2] Re: Propane Locker - C&C 30 MK1

2020-09-29 Thread Hoyt, Mike 
We have CNG on Persistence.  While it does eliminate the need for a dedicated 
propane locker it can be quite a pain to have the tank refilled 
(Co-incidentally I am doing that today).  The tanks are heavy and once empty if 
you don't have a second tank you have to wait until it is refilled before you 
can once again use your stove/oven.  It is also somewhat awkward to put the 
tank in place and to remove as it requires my physical presence inside the 
cockpit locker.

That said it is very safe and a tank lasts a very long time.  Also the gauge is 
much more accurate than those on propane tanks.

If you are thinking about the possibility of CNG check for availability of 
exchange or refill options in your area as you very first step in the process.

This link is to a photo taken at time of our pre-purchase survey which shows 
the CNG tank installation.  You will note that it is completely out of the way.

http://hoytsailing.com/CNG_Small.jpg

Mike Hoyt
Persistence
Halifax, NS

From: pete.shelqu...@comcast.net 
Sent: September 29, 2020 9:02 AM
To: 'Stus-List' 
Subject: [SUSPICIOUS MSG: 1] [SUSPICIOUS MSG: 2] Stus-List Re: Propane Locker - 
C&C 30 MK1

I'm not aware of what fuel source you have now, but have you considered CNG?   
Sometimes a little harder to find a place to fill the tank, but would remove 
the need for a separate locker.


From: djmor...@djma-ltd.com 
mailto:djmor...@djma-ltd.com>>
Sent: Tuesday, September 29, 2020 5:53 AM
To: cnc-list@cnc-list.com
Subject: Stus-List Propane Locker - C&C 30 MK1

Any suggestions on how to best and, one hopes economically retrofit a 1975 C&C 
30 MK1 for safe LPG storage? Off-the-shelf lockers start in the $1k range and 
would consume more of a cockpit locker than I'd prefer to surrender. I've yet 
to see an off-the-transom approach that doesn't rob from the elegance of the 
boat's design. I know the safety regs, my question is around physical space.

David J. Morris, MBA
President, D.J. Morris & Associates Ltd.
24 St. Paul's Place, Kingston, ON  K7M 7S3
Tel. 613-531-4429
email: djmor...@djma-ltd.com
Member: Canadian Freelance Guild
Blogging at: http://davidmorrisjourneys.wordpress.com/



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Thanks everyone for supporting this list with your contributions.  Each and 
every one is greatly appreciated.  If you want to support the list - use PayPal 
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Stus-List Re: Propane Locker - C&C 30 MK1

2020-09-29 Thread Tom Buscaglia 
Why bother with a box?  

On our 35 MK 1 we went with a rail mount.  Had a “T” put in the hose with one 
hose to the grill and the other to the galley stove.

https://flic.kr/p/26vv7To

Tom Buscaglia
S/V Alera 
1990 C&C 37+/40
Vashon WA
P 206.463.9200
C 305.409.3660


> On Sep 29, 2020, at 3:53 AM, djmor...@djma-ltd.com wrote:
> 
> 
> Any suggestions on how to best and, one hopes economically retrofit a 1975 
> C&C 30 MK1 for safe LPG storage? Off-the-shelf lockers start in the $1k range 
> and would consume more of a cockpit locker than I’d prefer to surrender. I’ve 
> yet to see an off-the-transom approach that doesn’t rob from the elegance of 
> the boat’s design. I know the safety regs, my question is around physical 
> space.  
>  
> David J. Morris, MBA
> President, D.J. Morris & Associates Ltd.
> 24 St. Paul’s Place, Kingston, ON  K7M 7S3
> Tel. 613-531-4429
> email: djmor...@djma-ltd.com
> Member: Canadian Freelance Guild
> Blogging at: http://davidmorrisjourneys.wordpress.com/
>  
> 
> 
>   
> This email has been checked for viruses by Avast antivirus software. 
> www.avast.com
> 
> 
> ___
> 
> Thanks everyone for supporting this list with your contributions.  Each and 
> every one is greatly appreciated.  If you want to support the list - use 
> PayPal to send contribution --   https://www.paypal.me/stumurray
> 
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every one is greatly appreciated.  If you want to support the list - use PayPal 
to send contribution --   https://www.paypal.me/stumurray

Stus-List Re: Propane Locker - C&C 30 MK1

2020-09-29 Thread Della Barba, Joe via CnC-List 
What he said – buy an aluminum tank, mount it to the stern rail ☺


Joe Della Barba Coquina C&C 35  MK I
www.dellabarba.com



From: Tom Buscaglia [mailto:t...@sv-alera.com]
Sent: Tuesday, September 29, 2020 9:45 AM
To: Stus-List 
Subject: [EXTERNAL] Stus-List Re: Propane Locker - C&C 30 MK1

Why bother with a box?

On our 35 MK 1 we went with a rail mount.  Had a “T” put in the hose with one 
hose to the grill and the other to the galley stove.

https://flic.kr/p/26vv7To
Tom Buscaglia
S/V Alera
1990 C&C 37+/40
Vashon WA
P 206.463.9200
C 305.409.3660



On Sep 29, 2020, at 3:53 AM, 
djmor...@djma-ltd.com wrote:

Any suggestions on how to best and, one hopes economically retrofit a 1975 C&C 
30 MK1 for safe LPG storage? Off-the-shelf lockers start in the $1k range and 
would consume more of a cockpit locker than I’d prefer to surrender. I’ve yet 
to see an off-the-transom approach that doesn’t rob from the elegance of the 
boat’s design. I know the safety regs, my question is around physical space.

David J. Morris, MBA
President, D.J. Morris & Associates Ltd.
24 St. Paul’s Place, Kingston, ON  K7M 7S3
Tel. 613-531-4429
email: djmor...@djma-ltd.com
Member: Canadian Freelance Guild
Blogging at: http://davidmorrisjourneys.wordpress.com/



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___

Thanks everyone for supporting this list with your contributions.  Each and 
every one is greatly appreciated.  If you want to support the list - use PayPal 
to send contribution --   
https://www.paypal.me/stumurray
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every one is greatly appreciated.  If you want to support the list - use PayPal 
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Stus-List Re: Potential "Next" Boat - Keel Issue ?'s

2020-09-29 Thread Doug 
Anything can be repaired. It only takes money. Based on the pictures, I can
see some glass work required on the outside, and possibly stinger repair on
the inside. The bill could easily be 5 to 10 K. Unless you are in love with
the boat overall, I'd wake away.

 

Doug Allardyce

~~~_/) _/) ~~~

 

From: Bill Coleman [mailto:colt...@gmail.com] 
Sent: Monday, September 28, 2020 5:06 PM
To: 'Stus-List' 
Subject: Stus-List Re: Potential "Next" Boat - Keel Issue ?'s

 

Judging by the aft section, it doesn’t seem to have shifted aft. Looks more
like the front keel bolts needed tightening for quite awhile, and weren’t .

 

 

Bill Coleman

Entrada, Erie, PA

 

 

 

From: nausetbe...@optonline.net 
[mailto:nausetbe...@optonline.net] 
Sent: Monday, September 28, 2020 4:48 PM
To: 'Stus-List'
Subject: Stus-List Potential "Next" Boat - Keel Issue ?'s

 

I looked at a boat yesterday that seemed like a good contender for a “next”
boat, right up until just prior to leaving I looked more closely at the keel
and found something that does not look particularly good.  I am hoping for
some sage advice from the list, as in a) walk away, or b) might be repaired,
and if so what would be entailed and is it worth it.  This would have to be
on the current owner’s tab, or a very hefty discount in the price.  

 

I tried to attach low res pics but that exceeded the list max message size,
so here is a link I hope works:  

 

https://photos.google.com/share/AF1QipNHJ22k8kS3ukfBzXz67enViRMDw3GAOASwiS49
uupKViTIDFeNzLj1LE_pav81Yw?key=QkR1X0FXWlgyclBzY1JYcUtIckRJRGh3dzIyMURR

 

The keel has a fairly significant crack extending at least 18” aft from the
leading edge.  [The bottom was recently painted and I did not try to follow
it further aft.]  That gap [in the attached photos] is at least 3/8” on the
horizontal axis and about ¼” on the vertical.  The trailing edge has some
cracks which are not overly visible, again due to the bottom paint.
Unfortunately I did not look closely at / around the keel bolts, nor do I
have any internal photos, as I noticed this after the boat was closed up.
The boat is 4 ½ hours away so getting more photos is not feasible.  

 

To my untrained eye it appears there was a hard grounding and the keel
almost seems to have shifted aft in addition to down, based on the angle of
the line from the fairing of the hull down to the leading edge of the keel.
But there does not appear to be any movement aft at the trailing edge,
though possibly it was punched up.  This does not appear to be along the
sump / keel joint as the crack is angled upwards and is not horizontal.  The
owner claims there have been no hard groundings when asked directly, only a
handful of soft groundings, predominantly in sand, but I have read even that
can do damage.  The boat was recently under contract and surveyed and that
buyer decided against going forward.  The reasons given by the broker did
not include any mention of damage revealed during the survey.  I do not have
a copy of that buyers survey.  

 

Any thoughts on what would need to be done to remedy this, or am I better
off to move on and keep looking?  Should the keel be dropped and the keel
bolts examined?  Or would there be other, less intrusive / expensive fixes
which would be sufficient and safe?  I realize it is difficult to really
determine the best repair without physically examining the boat but any
advice on what likely would be required is appreciated.  

 

Thanks, 

Brian

 

 

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Stus-List Re: [SUSPICIOUS MSG: 1] [SUSPICIOUS MSG: 2] Re: Propane Locker - C&C 30 MK1

2020-09-29 Thread Della Barba, Joe via CnC-List 
I spend about $3 or so to fill my CNG tanks at the local CNG filling station, 
if this station did not exist I would have to switch to propane. Paying 
$75-$100 to exchange CNG tanks at one of the few places that does it would get 
old fast!
The gauge is nice, CNG pressure is linear, propane stays around 200 PSI until 
95% used up and drops to zero rapidly.


Joe Della Barba Coquina C&C 35  MK I
www.dellabarba.com



From: Hoyt, Mike [mailto:mike.h...@impgroup.com]
Sent: Tuesday, September 29, 2020 8:43 AM
To: 'Stus-List' 
Subject: [EXTERNAL] Stus-List Re: [SUSPICIOUS MSG: 1] [SUSPICIOUS MSG: 2] Re: 
Propane Locker - C&C 30 MK1

We have CNG on Persistence.  While it does eliminate the need for a dedicated 
propane locker it can be quite a pain to have the tank refilled 
(Co-incidentally I am doing that today).  The tanks are heavy and once empty if 
you don't have a second tank you have to wait until it is refilled before you 
can once again use your stove/oven.  It is also somewhat awkward to put the 
tank in place and to remove as it requires my physical presence inside the 
cockpit locker.

That said it is very safe and a tank lasts a very long time.  Also the gauge is 
much more accurate than those on propane tanks.

If you are thinking about the possibility of CNG check for availability of 
exchange or refill options in your area as you very first step in the process.

This link is to a photo taken at time of our pre-purchase survey which shows 
the CNG tank installation.  You will note that it is completely out of the way.

http://hoytsailing.com/CNG_Small.jpg

Mike Hoyt
Persistence
Halifax, NS

From: pete.shelqu...@comcast.net 
mailto:pete.shelqu...@comcast.net>>
Sent: September 29, 2020 9:02 AM
To: 'Stus-List' mailto:cnc-list@cnc-list.com>>
Subject: [SUSPICIOUS MSG: 1] [SUSPICIOUS MSG: 2] Stus-List Re: Propane Locker - 
C&C 30 MK1

I'm not aware of what fuel source you have now, but have you considered CNG?   
Sometimes a little harder to find a place to fill the tank, but would remove 
the need for a separate locker.


From: djmor...@djma-ltd.com 
mailto:djmor...@djma-ltd.com>>
Sent: Tuesday, September 29, 2020 5:53 AM
To: cnc-list@cnc-list.com
Subject: Stus-List Propane Locker - C&C 30 MK1

Any suggestions on how to best and, one hopes economically retrofit a 1975 C&C 
30 MK1 for safe LPG storage? Off-the-shelf lockers start in the $1k range and 
would consume more of a cockpit locker than I'd prefer to surrender. I've yet 
to see an off-the-transom approach that doesn't rob from the elegance of the 
boat's design. I know the safety regs, my question is around physical space.

David J. Morris, MBA
President, D.J. Morris & Associates Ltd.
24 St. Paul's Place, Kingston, ON  K7M 7S3
Tel. 613-531-4429
email: djmor...@djma-ltd.com
Member: Canadian Freelance Guild
Blogging at: http://davidmorrisjourneys.wordpress.com/



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This email has been checked for viruses by Avast antivirus software.
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___

Thanks everyone for supporting this list with your contributions.  Each and 
every one is greatly appreciated.  If you want to support the list - use PayPal 
to send contribution --   https://www.paypal.me/stumurray

Stus-List Re: [SUSPICIOUS MSG: 1] [SUSPICIOUS MSG: 2] Re: Propane Locker - C&C 30 MK1

2020-09-29 Thread Hoyt, Mike 
Yeah.  I forgot to mention the cost.  $0.40 for a fill for me.  Plus a $10 
service fee.  Pretty nice!

From: Della Barba, Joe via CnC-List 
Sent: September 29, 2020 11:48 AM
To: Stus-List 
Cc: Della Barba, Joe 
Subject: Stus-List Re: [SUSPICIOUS MSG: 1] [SUSPICIOUS MSG: 2] Re: Propane 
Locker - C&C 30 MK1

I spend about $3 or so to fill my CNG tanks at the local CNG filling station, 
if this station did not exist I would have to switch to propane. Paying 
$75-$100 to exchange CNG tanks at one of the few places that does it would get 
old fast!
The gauge is nice, CNG pressure is linear, propane stays around 200 PSI until 
95% used up and drops to zero rapidly.


Joe Della Barba Coquina C&C 35  MK I
www.dellabarba.com



From: Hoyt, Mike [mailto:mike.h...@impgroup.com]
Sent: Tuesday, September 29, 2020 8:43 AM
To: 'Stus-List' mailto:cnc-list@cnc-list.com>>
Subject: [EXTERNAL] Stus-List Re: [SUSPICIOUS MSG: 1] [SUSPICIOUS MSG: 2] Re: 
Propane Locker - C&C 30 MK1

We have CNG on Persistence.  While it does eliminate the need for a dedicated 
propane locker it can be quite a pain to have the tank refilled 
(Co-incidentally I am doing that today).  The tanks are heavy and once empty if 
you don't have a second tank you have to wait until it is refilled before you 
can once again use your stove/oven.  It is also somewhat awkward to put the 
tank in place and to remove as it requires my physical presence inside the 
cockpit locker.

That said it is very safe and a tank lasts a very long time.  Also the gauge is 
much more accurate than those on propane tanks.

If you are thinking about the possibility of CNG check for availability of 
exchange or refill options in your area as you very first step in the process.

This link is to a photo taken at time of our pre-purchase survey which shows 
the CNG tank installation.  You will note that it is completely out of the way.

http://hoytsailing.com/CNG_Small.jpg

Mike Hoyt
Persistence
Halifax, NS

From: pete.shelqu...@comcast.net 
mailto:pete.shelqu...@comcast.net>>
Sent: September 29, 2020 9:02 AM
To: 'Stus-List' mailto:cnc-list@cnc-list.com>>
Subject: [SUSPICIOUS MSG: 1] [SUSPICIOUS MSG: 2] Stus-List Re: Propane Locker - 
C&C 30 MK1

I'm not aware of what fuel source you have now, but have you considered CNG?   
Sometimes a little harder to find a place to fill the tank, but would remove 
the need for a separate locker.


From: djmor...@djma-ltd.com 
mailto:djmor...@djma-ltd.com>>
Sent: Tuesday, September 29, 2020 5:53 AM
To: cnc-list@cnc-list.com
Subject: Stus-List Propane Locker - C&C 30 MK1

Any suggestions on how to best and, one hopes economically retrofit a 1975 C&C 
30 MK1 for safe LPG storage? Off-the-shelf lockers start in the $1k range and 
would consume more of a cockpit locker than I'd prefer to surrender. I've yet 
to see an off-the-transom approach that doesn't rob from the elegance of the 
boat's design. I know the safety regs, my question is around physical space.

David J. Morris, MBA
President, D.J. Morris & Associates Ltd.
24 St. Paul's Place, Kingston, ON  K7M 7S3
Tel. 613-531-4429
email: djmor...@djma-ltd.com
Member: Canadian Freelance Guild
Blogging at: http://davidmorrisjourneys.wordpress.com/



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Stus-List Email subject and trimming

2020-09-29 Thread Stu 
Please, please change the subject line to reflect on the email itself.

When you see “Suspicious Message 1 – Suspicious Message 2” people are going to 
be very cautious opening the email.

I have to keep reminding people to trim the messages.  This is really important 
when you are replying to something in a digest email.  There is no need to keep 
sending and archiving the digest.

Stay safe – Stu___

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Stus-List Advice for replace/repair of worn Diesel Deck Fill Cap

2020-09-29 Thread kelly petew 
The deck fill caps on my 30-2 require a winch handle to remove.  The diesel cap 
has worn to the point where the winch head [of the handle] no longer fits well.
Has anyone found a suitable replacement?   I see several possibilities at 
Defender, but I'm concerned the threading won't match exactly.

Or, has anyone made a "plug" or insert for the deck fill, maybe a large hex nut 
welded to a threaded rod?

Thanks,

Pete Winters
Siren Song
1991 C&C30-2
Deltaville, Va.
___

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Stus-List Fwd: Emails

2020-09-29 Thread Fred Hazzard 
-- Forwarded message -
From: Fred Hazzard 
Date: Mon, Sep 28, 2020 at 12:10 PM
Subject: Emails
To:


Another issue have is that my sent emails that I initiate do not show up on
the site until someone responds.
Before I learned to look in spam for a response I thought my messages were
just going into the ethers.

Fred Hazzard
___

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Stus-List Re: Fwd: Emails

2020-09-29 Thread ALAN BERGEN 
Mine too.
Alan Bergen
35 Mk III Thirsty
Rose City YC
Portland, OR



On Tue, Sep 29, 2020 at 9:49 AM Fred Hazzard  wrote:

>
>
> -- Forwarded message -
> From: Fred Hazzard 
> Date: Mon, Sep 28, 2020 at 12:10 PM
> Subject: Emails
> To:
>
>
> Another issue have is that my sent emails that I initiate do not show up
> on the site until someone responds.
> Before I learned to look in spam for a response I thought my messages were
> just going into the ethers.
>
> Fred Hazzard
> ___
>
> Thanks everyone for supporting this list with your contributions.  Each
> and every one is greatly appreciated.  If you want to support the list -
> use PayPal to send contribution --
> https://urldefense.com/v3/__https://www.paypal.me/stumurray__;!!LIr3w8kk_Xxm!_WMFBxO9Di0rzElU_Qvq0JPCi0wl-tCdEiQEAu1u_aUQ-4ycSqLXL8Kxrg92gJiScvs$
>
>
___

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Stus-List Re: Advice for replace/repair of worn Diesel Deck Fill Cap

2020-09-29 Thread ALAN BERGEN 
Replace the whole fill with one made of plastic. You won't need a winch
handle, and it won't corrode.

Alan Bergen
35 Mk III Thirsty
Rose City YC
Portland, OR



On Tue, Sep 29, 2020 at 9:22 AM kelly petew  wrote:

> The deck fill caps on my 30-2 require a winch handle to remove.  The
> diesel cap has worn to the point where the winch head [of the handle] no
> longer fits well.
>
> Has anyone found a suitable replacement?   I see several possibilities at
> Defender, but I’m concerned the threading won’t match exactly.
>
>
>
> *Or*, has anyone made a “plug” or insert for the deck fill, maybe a large
> hex nut welded to a threaded rod?
>
>
>
> Thanks,
>
>
>
> Pete Winters
>
> Siren Song
>
> 1991 C&C30-2
>
> Deltaville, Va.
> ___
>
> Thanks everyone for supporting this list with your contributions.  Each
> and every one is greatly appreciated.  If you want to support the list -
> use PayPal to send contribution --
> https://urldefense.com/v3/__https://www.paypal.me/stumurray__;!!LIr3w8kk_Xxm!51C-a4AHxmy19Zqt7Gu9Z7qO7Z4XLQhRs920OlwOG9B6xXgSIkKD7HfbwdYqIrHJ-qc$
>
>
___

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Stus-List Re: Advice for replace/repair of worn Diesel Deck Fill Cap

2020-09-29 Thread Bill Coleman 
The threads are either 1 ¼”  (1 5/8” ) NPT or 1 ½” NPT (1 7/8”)

I keep a spare 1 ¼” Plastic Pipe Plug from Home Depot in a drawer on the off 
chance I lose a cap someday. Yours are more likely 1 ½, but check.

 

Bill Coleman

Entrada, Erie, PA

 

 

 

 

The deck fill caps on my 30-2 require a winch handle to remove.  The diesel cap 
has worn to the point where the winch head [of the handle] no longer fits well. 
 

Has anyone found a suitable replacement?   I see several possibilities at 
Defender, but I’m concerned the threading won’t match exactly.  

 

Or, has anyone made a “plug” or insert for the deck fill, maybe a large hex nut 
welded to a threaded rod?  

 

Thanks,

 

Pete Winters

Siren Song

1991 C&C30-2

Deltaville, Va.

___

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every one is greatly appreciated.  If you want to support the list - use PayPal 
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___

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Stus-List Re: Advice for replace/repair of worn Diesel Deck Fill Cap

2020-09-29 Thread Marek Dziedzic 
The chances that you might find a replacement cap are slim to none. Somehow all 
the standards have changed since the original were installed.

I am in a similar boat; most of my fill caps are worn, not working or 
temporary. I need to replace all three (water, waste and fuel).

Is there a recommended, good fill that is reasonably easy to install and will 
not require half of the boat to be redone?

Marek

1994 C270 "Legato"
Ottawa, ON



From: kelly petew
Sent: 29 September, 2020 12:22
To: cnc-list@cnc-list.com
Subject: Stus-List Advice for replace/repair of worn Diesel Deck Fill Cap

The deck fill caps on my 30-2 require a winch handle to remove.  The diesel cap 
has worn to the point where the winch head [of the handle] no longer fits well.
Has anyone found a suitable replacement?   I see several possibilities at 
Defender, but I'm concerned the threading won't match exactly.

Or, has anyone made a "plug" or insert for the deck fill, maybe a large hex nut 
welded to a threaded rod?

Thanks,

Pete Winters
Siren Song
1991 C&C30-2
Deltaville, Va.
___

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every one is greatly appreciated.  If you want to support the list - use PayPal 
to send contribution --   https://www.paypal.me/stumurray

Stus-List Re: Advice for replace/repair of worn Diesel Deck Fill Cap

2020-09-29 Thread CHARLES SCHEAFFER 
I found a SS replacement for my diesel fill which was OEM aluminum.  $35 and 
has diesel embossed on it though the picture only shows waste and water.  White 
Water product sold through Marine Guys through Walmart.

Chuck



> On 09/29/2020 12:21 PM kelly petew  wrote:
> 
> 
> 
> The deck fill caps on my 30-2 require a winch handle to remove.  The 
> diesel cap has worn to the point where the winch head [of the handle] no 
> longer fits well. 
> 
> Has anyone found a suitable replacement?   I see several possibilities at 
> Defender, but I’m concerned the threading won’t match exactly. 
> 
> 
> Or, has anyone made a “plug” or insert for the deck fill, maybe a large 
> hex nut welded to a threaded rod? 
> 
> 
> Thanks,
> 
> 
> Pete Winters
> 
> Siren Song
> 
> 1991 C&C30-2
> 
> Deltaville, Va.
> 
> ___
> 
> Thanks everyone for supporting this list with your contributions. Each 
> and every one is greatly appreciated. If you want to support the list - use 
> PayPal to send contribution -- https://www.paypal.me/stumurray
> 
> 
___

Thanks everyone for supporting this list with your contributions.  Each and 
every one is greatly appreciated.  If you want to support the list - use PayPal 
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Stus-List Re: Advice for replace/repair of worn Diesel Deck Fill Cap

2020-09-29 Thread CHARLES SCHEAFFER 
https://www.google.com/search?q=ss+diesel+deck+fill+marine+guys&bih=504&biw=1094&rlz=1C1AWFC_enUS839US839&hl=en&tbm=shop&sa=X&ved=2ahUKEwjQ0-vm-47sAhVhjOAKHSltCGIQ1TV6BQgBEJAB#spd=7431783077414889366_0

> On 09/29/2020 2:16 PM CHARLES SCHEAFFER  wrote:
> 
> 
> I found a SS replacement for my diesel fill which was OEM aluminum.  $35 
> and has diesel embossed on it though the picture only shows waste and water.  
> White Water product sold through Marine Guys through Walmart.
> 
> Chuck
> 
>  
> 
> > > On 09/29/2020 12:21 PM kelly petew  
> wrote:
> > 
> > 
> > 
> > The deck fill caps on my 30-2 require a winch handle to remove.  
> > The diesel cap has worn to the point where the winch head [of the handle] 
> > no longer fits well. 
> > 
> > Has anyone found a suitable replacement?   I see several 
> > possibilities at Defender, but I’m concerned the threading won’t match 
> > exactly. 
> > 
> > 
> > Or, has anyone made a “plug” or insert for the deck fill, maybe a 
> > large hex nut welded to a threaded rod? 
> > 
> > 
> > Thanks,
> > 
> > 
> > Pete Winters
> > 
> > Siren Song
> > 
> > 1991 C&C30-2
> > 
> > Deltaville, Va.
> > 
> > ___
> > 
> > Thanks everyone for supporting this list with your contributions. 
> > Each and every one is greatly appreciated. If you want to support the list 
> > - use PayPal to send contribution -- https://www.paypal.me/stumurray
> > 
> > 
> > > 
___

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Stus-List Re: Advice for replace/repair of worn Diesel Deck Fill Cap

2020-09-29 Thread Matthew 
This spring I replaced water and diesel fuel deck fills.  I bought stainless
deck fills from Marine Part Depot, which is relatively inexpensive foreign
made stuff but was robust and fit the old holes nearly perfectly.  They
unscrew using one of those bronze spanner wrenches you can buy from Groco.
(I’m sure there are other wrenches that fit.)  After removing the old
chrome-plated deck fills, I gouged out some balsa coring on the inside of
the open holes, wetted the core with West System, and filled in the gouged
out areas with a West System/colloidal silica mixture.  I then used a round
sanding drum to smooth the inside surface and fit the replacement deck
fills, and I also isolated the deck screws with epoxy.  I then installed the
replacement deck fills with a good sealant.  Inside, I used Groco 1 ½”
stainless hose barbs, which is admittedly overkill.   I suspect most people
use a plastic hose barb for this purpose. 

 

It sounds like a lot of work, but it wasn’t too bad. 

 

From: Marek Dziedzic  
Sent: Tuesday, September 29, 2020 2:01 PM
To: Stus-List 
Subject: Stus-List Re: Advice for replace/repair of worn Diesel Deck Fill
Cap

 

The chances that you might find a replacement cap are slim to none. Somehow
all the standards have changed since the original were installed.

 

I am in a similar boat; most of my fill caps are worn, not working or
temporary. I need to replace all three (water, waste and fuel).

 

Is there a recommended, good fill that is reasonably easy to install and
will not require half of the boat to be redone?

 

Marek

 

1994 C270 ”Legato”

Ottawa, ON

 

 

 

From: kelly petew 
Sent: 29 September, 2020 12:22
To: cnc-list@cnc-list.com  
Subject: Stus-List Advice for replace/repair of worn Diesel Deck Fill Cap

 

The deck fill caps on my 30-2 require a winch handle to remove.  The diesel
cap has worn to the point where the winch head [of the handle] no longer
fits well.  

Has anyone found a suitable replacement?   I see several possibilities at
Defender, but I’m concerned the threading won’t match exactly.  

 

Or, has anyone made a “plug” or insert for the deck fill, maybe a large hex
nut welded to a threaded rod?  

 

Thanks,

 

Pete Winters

Siren Song

1991 C&C30-2

Deltaville, Va.

___

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every one is greatly appreciated.  If you want to support the list - use PayPal 
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Stus-List Potential "Next" Boat - Keel Issue ?'s

2020-09-29 Thread Robert Abbott 

Brian,

Several things to consider:  the keel as it currently exists requires a 
repairhow extensive we can't tell from the pics alone.  The gaps 
appear bigger than the usual  'C&C smile'.


If it was caused by a hard grounding, there is a chance there is 
internal structural damage on the stringers.  At the very least, I would 
have the keel box ground out and reglassed, maybe the keel dropped but 
definitely the keels bolts torqued.


One more thing to consider, if the potential buyer went so far as to pay 
for a survey and then walked away, there must be a reason. Buyers do not 
survey every boat they look at, mainly the ones they want to buy.


Last point, should you decide to have the boat surveyed, do not have the 
broker recommend one to you.find your own!


Good luck.

Rob Abbott
AZURA
C&C 32 - #277
Halifax, N.S.

On 9/28/2020 5:47 PM, nausetbe...@optonline.net wrote:


I looked at a boat yesterday that seemed like a good contender for a 
“next” boat, right up until just prior to leaving I looked more 
closely at the keel and found something that does not look 
particularly good.  I am hoping for some sage advice from the list, as 
in a) walk away, or b) might be repaired, and if so what would be 
entailed and is it worth it.  This would have to be on the current 
owner’s tab, or a very hefty discount in the price.


I tried to attach low res pics but that exceeded the list max message 
size, so here is a link I hope works:


https://photos.google.com/share/AF1QipNHJ22k8kS3ukfBzXz67enViRMDw3GAOASwiS49uupKViTIDFeNzLj1LE_pav81Yw?key=QkR1X0FXWlgyclBzY1JYcUtIckRJRGh3dzIyMURR

The keel has a fairly significant crack extending at least 18” aft 
from the leading edge.  [The bottom was recently painted and I did not 
try to follow it further aft.]  That gap [in the attached photos] is 
at least 3/8” on the horizontal axis and about ¼” on the vertical.  
The trailing edge has some cracks which are not overly visible, again 
due to the bottom paint.  Unfortunately I did not look closely at / 
around the keel bolts, nor do I have any internal photos, as I noticed 
this after the boat was closed up.  The boat is 4 ½ hours away so 
getting more photos is not feasible.


To my untrained eye it appears there was a hard grounding and the keel 
almost seems to have shifted aft in addition to down, based on the 
angle of the line from the fairing of the hull down to the leading 
edge of the keel.  But there does not appear to be any movement aft at 
the trailing edge, though possibly it was punched up.  This does not 
appear to be along the sump / keel joint as the crack is angled 
upwards and is not horizontal.  The owner claims there have been no 
hard groundings when asked directly, only a handful of soft 
groundings, predominantly in sand, but I have read even that can do 
damage.  The boat was recently under contract and surveyed and that 
buyer decided against going forward.  The reasons given by the broker 
did not include any mention of damage revealed during the survey.  I 
do not have a copy of that buyers survey.


Any thoughts on what would need to be done to remedy this, or am I 
better off to move on and keep looking?  Should the keel be dropped 
and the keel bolts examined?  Or would there be other, less intrusive 
/ expensive fixes which would be sufficient and safe?  I realize it is 
difficult to really determine the best repair without physically 
examining the boat but any advice on what likely would be required is 
appreciated.


Thanks,

Brian


___

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___

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Stus-List Re: Advice for replace/repair of worn Diesel Deck Fill Cap -- THANKS!

2020-09-29 Thread kelly petew 
Thx for the link!  I’ll check it out.

Pete

From: CHARLES SCHEAFFER 
Sent: Tuesday, September 29, 2020 2:17 PM
To: Stus-List ; kelly petew 
Subject: Re: Stus-List Advice for replace/repair of worn Diesel Deck Fill Cap

https://www.google.com/search?q=ss+diesel+deck+fill+marine+guys&bih=504&biw=1094&rlz=1C1AWFC_enUS839US839&hl=en&tbm=shop&sa=X&ved=2ahUKEwjQ0-vm-47sAhVhjOAKHSltCGIQ1TV6BQgBEJAB#spd=7431783077414889366_0
On 09/29/2020 2:16 PM CHARLES SCHEAFFER 
mailto:cscheaf...@comcast.net>> wrote:


I found a SS replacement for my diesel fill which was OEM aluminum.  $35 and 
has diesel embossed on it though the picture only shows waste and water.  White 
Water product sold through Marine Guys through Walmart.

Chuck


On 09/29/2020 12:21 PM kelly petew 
mailto:kellype...@msn.com>> wrote:


The deck fill caps on my 30-2 require a winch handle to remove.  The diesel cap 
has worn to the point where the winch head [of the handle] no longer fits well.
Has anyone found a suitable replacement?   I see several possibilities at 
Defender, but I’m concerned the threading won’t match exactly.

Or, has anyone made a “plug” or insert for the deck fill, maybe a large hex nut 
welded to a threaded rod?

Thanks,

Pete Winters
Siren Song
1991 C&C30-2
Deltaville, Va.
___

Thanks everyone for supporting this list with your contributions. Each and 
every one is greatly appreciated. If you want to support the list - use PayPal 
to send contribution -- https://www.paypal.me/stumurray
___

Thanks everyone for supporting this list with your contributions.  Each and 
every one is greatly appreciated.  If you want to support the list - use PayPal 
to send contribution --   https://www.paypal.me/stumurray

Stus-List Re: Propane Locker - C&C 30 MK1

2020-09-29 Thread Peter Fell 
>
> I'm curious .. with the tank on the stern rail as pictured, how are the
> ABYC requirements fulfilled?


1.  LPG cylinders, cylinder valves, regulating equipment, and safety
devices shall be readily accessible, secured for sea conditions, and
protected from the weather and against mechanical damage  i.e. your tank
and (I assume regulator, gauge and solenoid) are unprotected.
2.  installed in a ventilated location on the exterior of the boat where
escaping gases will flow directly overboard i.e. just as much chance to
flow into the cockpit.
3. A relief valve’s point of discharge shall be at least 20 inches (508mm)
distant from any opening to a cabin or the hull interior. i.e. your tank is
right next to the blower intake (or exhaust, I'm not sure which).

Don't get me wrong, I've wrestled with the same issues and it is near
impossible to meet all requirements in a retrofit. My propane system isn't
connected right now, until I have a better plan in place (and my composite
tank is expired anyway).
___

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