Stus-List Re: Whisker pole with a 37/40+?

[Dave S via CnC-List]

If you have an internal topping lift there should also be an unused exit point 
on the mast closer to deck level.  My 1985 33-2 has an internal topping lift 
and ring on a car arrangement intended for the symmetrical spin.   It exits the 
mast  port side and is led to the cabin top.   This is a factory setup I think. 
  
I used the symmetrical spin and its hefty pole occasionally before acquiring 
the asymmetrical and a forespar pole.  
The forespar pole stows attached to a welded ring on the pulpit and another on 
a stanchion.  
In use, The pole is supported by the topping lift and can be used with either 
asymmetrical or genny.Its length can be adjusted at the mast while in use.  
I use this for cruising  as the op describes and can manage it just fine single 
handed, though one must be mindful as the wind picks up due to the autopilot’s 
limitations. 
Dave 33-2
Sent from my iPhone

> On Nov 18, 2021, at 6:03 PM, Bill Coleman via CnC-List 
>  wrote:
> 
> 
> I can’t believe you don’t have a topping lift – right around your upper 
> spreader? Take a look with some binoculars.
>  
>  
> Bill Coleman
> Entrada, Erie, PA
>  
>  
>  
> From: Bruce Whitmore via CnC-List [mailto:cnc-list@cnc-list.com] 
> Sent: Thursday, November 18, 2021 5:18 PM
> To: Stus-List
> Cc: Bruce Whitmore
> Subject: Stus-List Re: Whisker pole with a 37/40+?
>  
> Thanks everyone for the insights.  I had a feeling that using the ring I 
> showed was a bad idea, but I had to ask.  Now another related question - What 
> do you use for a topping lift on the pole?  We have a main halyard, jib/genoa 
> halyard and two spinnaker halyards on the boat.  How would one rig the 
> topping lift for the whisker pole?
>  
> As to the reason why I am considering this, down here in Tampa, most of our 
> days result in 10 kts. of wind or less, and I keep the 150% Genoa on the 
> roller furler year round.  We only occasionally have to reef the main and/or 
> roll up the Genny because we're overpowered.  So, there are days I want to 
> fly a large asymmetrical instead, but I commonly find myself wanting it poled 
> out for better performance.   
>  
> I'm not a racer and more often than not daysail, though we want to cruise up 
> & down the coast of Florida more over the next few years.  
>  
> Thoughts?
>  
> Bruce Whitmore
> 1994 C&C 37/40+ "Astralis"
> Madeira Beach, FL
>  
>  
> Thanks to all of the subscribers that contributed to the list to help with 
> the costs involved.  If you want to show your support to the list - use 
> PayPal to send contribution --   https://www.paypal.me/stumurray  Thanks - Stu
Thanks to all of the subscribers that contributed to the list to help with the 
costs involved.  If you want to show your support to the list - use PayPal to 
send contribution --   https://www.paypal.me/stumurray  Thanks - Stu

Stus-List Re: Whisker pole with a 37/40+?

[Bill Coleman via CnC-List]

I can’t believe you don’t have a topping lift – right around your upper 
spreader? Take a look with some binoculars. 

 

 

Bill Coleman

Entrada, Erie, PA

 

 

 

From: Bruce Whitmore via CnC-List [mailto:cnc-list@cnc-list.com] 
Sent: Thursday, November 18, 2021 5:18 PM
To: Stus-List
Cc: Bruce Whitmore
Subject: Stus-List Re: Whisker pole with a 37/40+?

 

Thanks everyone for the insights.  I had a feeling that using the ring I showed 
was a bad idea, but I had to ask.  Now another related question - What do you 
use for a topping lift on the pole?  We have a main halyard, jib/genoa halyard 
and two spinnaker halyards on the boat.  How would one rig the topping lift for 
the whisker pole?

 

As to the reason why I am considering this, down here in Tampa, most of our 
days result in 10 kts. of wind or less, and I keep the 150% Genoa on the roller 
furler year round.  We only occasionally have to reef the main and/or roll up 
the Genny because we're overpowered.  So, there are days I want to fly a large 
asymmetrical instead, but I commonly find myself wanting it poled out for 
better performance.   

 

I'm not a racer and more often than not daysail, though we want to cruise up & 
down the coast of Florida more over the next few years.  

 

Thoughts?

 

Bruce Whitmore

1994 C&C 37/40+ "Astralis"

Madeira Beach, FL

 

 

Thanks to all of the subscribers that contributed to the list to help with the 
costs involved.  If you want to show your support to the list - use PayPal to 
send contribution --   https://www.paypal.me/stumurray  Thanks - Stu

Stus-List Re: Whisker pole with a 37/40+?

[Shawn Wright via CnC-List]

Callisto (35-2) came with an identical setup to what Rick describes below
(including poles in storage...), and the line-adjustable spin-pole car is
very beefy (Merriman most likely). I removed the car and lines to simplify
things as there is no way two of us are handling the heavy spin pole when
cruising. When removing the car, I noticed that the 1.25" track was
slightly deformed, and I had to file the track slightly to remove it,
suggesting some pretty large lateral forces were exerted at some point,
likely when racing.

The eye on your gooseneck pin might be useful for attaching a block to lead
a control line or cunningham, but I wouldn't use it for anything rigid like
a pole, as others have stated.

--
Shawn Wright
shawngwri...@gmail.com
S/V Callisto, 1974 C&C 35
https://www.facebook.com/SVCallisto


On Thu, Nov 18, 2021 at 8:59 AM Rick Brass via CnC-List <
cnc-list@cnc-list.com> wrote:

> Imzadi (an old IOR boat) came with 2 spin halyards, a track and line
> adjustable ring car on the front of the mast, and a ring on either side of
> the mast for use with a reaching strut. Her sail inventory has a 135 genoa
> (set up with a foam luff, for reefing down to about 90% on the furler) and
> an asymmetrical chute tacked to the anchor roller array about 2 feet in
> front of the headstay.
>
>
>
> I’ve put the reaching strut and spin pole into storage (available to any
> lister who needs either one in exchange for a donation to Stu and cost of
> shipping). I carry two whisker poles on Imzadi for the headsails.
>
>
>
> As others have said, there are pretty high forces on the attachment points
> when using a pole – particularly with the spin when running. So a strong
> attachment point on the mast is needed, and use of the ring at the
> gooseneck is probably contraindicated.
>
>
>
>
>
Thanks to all of the subscribers that contributed to the list to help with the 
costs involved.  If you want to show your support to the list - use PayPal to 
send contribution --   https://www.paypal.me/stumurray  Thanks - Stu

Stus-List Re: Whisker pole with a 37/40+?

[Novabraid via CnC-List]

Bruce,

I did foredeck for a number of years on a C&C 40 TM/DK and when racing in the 
cruising class we ALWAYS used a whisker pole to sail wing on wing.  We actually 
carried two poles on board, one for to 100% jib and a second for the 135% and 
150%.  Yes we took a rating penalty but it made the boat much faster when you 
could project the clew further outboard.  I don’t believe the sailing rules at 
the time allowed us to pole out the jib on the leeward side using a pole but I 
could be wrong.

Our pole set up involved a mast track with a moveable car with a ring,  A “pole 
up and down” continuous control line for the car along with a topping lift and 
separate downhaul for the pole which had its own bridle lines.  There were also 
trip lines on the pole ends to release the pole from the car and jib sheet.  
This facilitated end for end gybes.  Ideally the pole was always set at 90% to 
true wind and since the boat was slower dead downwind than 170 or so, we always 
tried to keep the pole square to the wind angle.

We also found that keeping the pole low (at the mast and topping lift) would 
close the leech in light air and in heavy air, we’d let the pole go up a bit 
more but keep it controlled with a downhaul.

 

On my own boat, I have a North Gennaker on a sock which facilitates sets, 
gybes, and douses.  I’ve never tried to pole out my assym at the clew as I 
understood that, like a genoa, an asymmetric spinnaker wants airflow over both 
sides of the sail to allow it to provide the most power.  I’ve seen racing 
boats that will put the tack on a pole to move the tack further to windward, 
but the shape always seems funky and I’m thinking you’d need a sail cut for 
that specific application to do so.   So I’m resigned to doing more gybes at 
hotter angles rather than sailing DDW (dog slow on my boat).  The deeper I go, 
the more I ease the tack line on the Assym to get it projecting to windward

 

In any situation, having a ring on the leading side of the mast is essential to 
 using a pole (unless you want a bullet style to do drop pole gybes).  I’ve 
been on the receiving end of having a loaded whisker pole come around a bean me 
in the head in 20kts of breeze and I was just about knocked out.  When the 
breeze is up, always release the pole at the clew first, not the mast when 
gybing or dousing the pole.

Good luck,

Chuck Gilchrest

Half Magic

1983 Landfall 35

Padanaram, MA

 







 

Thanks to all of the subscribers that contributed to the list to help with the 
costs involved.  If you want to show your support to the list - use PayPal to 
send contribution --   https://www.paypal.me/stumurray  Thanks - Stu

Stus-List Re: Whisker pole with a 37/40+?

[Bruce Whitmore via CnC-List]

Thanks everyone for the insights.  I had a feeling that using the ring I
showed was a bad idea, but I had to ask.  Now another related question -
What do you use for a topping lift on the pole?  We have a main halyard,
jib/genoa halyard and two spinnaker halyards on the boat.  How would one
rig the topping lift for the whisker pole?

As to the reason why I am considering this, down here in Tampa, most of our
days result in 10 kts. of wind or less, and I keep the 150% Genoa on the
roller furler year round.  We only occasionally have to reef the main
and/or roll up the Genny because we're overpowered.  So, there are days I
want to fly a large asymmetrical instead, but I commonly find myself
wanting it poled out for better performance.

I'm not a racer and more often than not daysail, though we want to cruise
up & down the coast of Florida more over the next few years.

Thoughts?

Bruce Whitmore
1994 C&C 37/40+ "Astralis"
Madeira Beach, FL
Thanks to all of the subscribers that contributed to the list to help with the 
costs involved.  If you want to show your support to the list - use PayPal to 
send contribution --   https://www.paypal.me/stumurray  Thanks - Stu

Stus-List Re: Whisker pole with a 37/40+?

[David Knecht via CnC-List]

I don’t think I have described my system before, but perhaps it is relevant 
here.  I rarely race in spinnaker class, so use my whisker pole (Forespar 
aluminum adjustable) 90% of the time off the wind.  I have a track on the front 
of the mast designed for the spinnaker pole and a hoop that the whisker pole 
attaches to.  I leave the whisker pole attached to the loop all the time 
(except when spinnaker racing), sitting vertically attached to and in front of 
the mast.   When I want to deploy the pole, I raise the track car with the 
endless adjusting line, move the pole end out of the mast base and lay it 
forward on the deck.  Then I attach the forward end to the jib sheet, extend 
the pole and trim the genoa sheet.  Very quick and easy and I never have to 
worry about dropping the pole or needing a place to store it.  Sometimes I 
attach the topping lift, often not, depending on the wind strength and 
direction.  When done, I detach the genoa, bring the pole back to minimum 
length, raise the track so the pole is vertical, position the other end in the 
mast base well and drop the track so the pole end nestles into the mast base.  
It has never come out on its own. I find that having the pole always in place 
on the mast and only having to attach one end works very well for me.  Dave
   
S/V Aries
1990 C&C 34+
New London, CT



Thanks to all of the subscribers that contributed to the list to help with the 
costs involved.  If you want to show your support to the list - use PayPal to 
send contribution --   https://www.paypal.me/stumurray  Thanks - Stu

Stus-List Re: Whisker pole with a 37/40+?

[cenelson via CnC-List]

You might also consider a Forte whisker or spin pole. I have both on Water 
Phantom and they have worked well for almost 20 years. 
When I bought mine (spin first) they were less expensive than the Forespar 
equivalent and the were made on a mandrel with biaxial carbon fiber impregnated 
with resin so they are both very strong—back then they were considered stronger 
than the Forespar equivalent.
Your current mileage may vary of course!
Charlie Nelson


Sent from the all new AOL app for iOS


On Thursday, November 18, 2021, 2:02 PM, Josh Muckley via CnC-List 
 wrote:

Bruce,
I have installed a whisker pole.  The link below is a folder for pictures of 
the entire mast project.  Inside is a folder for the whisker pole.  Forespar 
makes the telescoping pole with the adjustable T-track fitting and jaw.
https://drive.google.com/folderview?id=1eSqX7wZP1r77hD84wDmGAQSI0Tqbn9xm
More details available upon request. 
Josh Muckley S/V Sea Hawk 1989 C&C 37+Solomons, MD 
On Thu, Nov 18, 2021, 09:28 Bruce Whitmore via CnC-List  
wrote:

Hello all,
I was wondering if you folks can give me some advice as to rigging a whisker 
pole on our 37/40+.  The boat, which has spent a good part of its time on the 
west coast of Florida, was previously named "Dagny" and saw its share of races. 
 Yet, the boat does not have a whisker pole ring/car on the front of the mast, 
and does not have a whisker pole onboard.  Nor does it have the equipment for a 
spinnaker pole, though the boat came with a symmetrical spinnaker.
I'd like to rig a whisker pole for use with our 150 Genoa and a large 
asymmetrical spinnaker.  
Funny thing is, at the gooseneck, there is a bolt that holds the two pieces 
together that has a ring mounted at the bottom.  I don't think it would get the 
perfect angle, but would it be that easy to rig the pole to that ring?  A photo 
of that bolt/ring can be found here:  
https://www.dropbox.com/s/re5kalfn9slfidr/Gooseneck%20Fitting.jpg?dl=0
The 150 and the asymmetrical will both have the clew behind the mast most if 
not all the time I would be using it.  In the case of the big asymmetrical, I 
think it might be so far back as to bank up against the rigging, though 
obviously I haven't used one on this boat as of yet.

Can anyone provide any insights?  
Thank you!!!
Bruce Whitmore1994 C&C 37/40+ "Astralis"Madeira Beach, FL
Thanks to all of the subscribers that contributed to the list to help with the 
costs involved.  If you want to show your support to the list - use PayPal to 
send contribution --   https://www.paypal.me/stumurray  Thanks - Stu
Thanks to all of the subscribers that contributed to the list to help with the 
costs involved.  If you want to show your support to the list - use PayPal to 
send contribution --  https://www.paypal.me/stumurray  Thanks - Stu


Thanks to all of the subscribers that contributed to the list to help with the 
costs involved.  If you want to show your support to the list - use PayPal to 
send contribution --   https://www.paypal.me/stumurray  Thanks - Stu

Stus-List Re: Whisker pole with a 37/40+?

[rjcasciato--- via CnC-List]

Bruce, 

 

You really want to rethink this whole topic before doing anything.  I have the 
same boat (“Impromptu” C&C 38MKIIC build in the Bruckman shop) that Rick has 
only hull #125.  It also came with lots of sail handling gear like the dual 
bayonet track car, and the dual bayonet spinnaker poles and the reaching strut 
as well.  All of that has been shelved like Rick’s and in today’s view this 
gear is likely obsolete.  I’ve removed all of those deck winches and pole 
devices and now only use a carbon fiber whisker pole that mounts inboard to the 
sliding track car with a loop.  The pole mounts into stanchion mounts on the 
port side of the foredeck when not being used.  Being carbon fiber, it can be 
handled on deck with minimal crew.  

 

All of the previous comments amount to a consensus that you do not want to use 
that ring under the gooseneck………..and that you do not want to underestimate the 
loads on the pole or mast when using any spinnaker system.  Things happen fast 
and are usually bad.  

 

We race Impromptu almost exclusively………..I just donated the original spinnakers 
to Sea Bags, and we only use 1 ASYM as the off wind sail other than our #1 
genoa.  We NEVER use the pole with the ASYM.  The pole is only useful on light 
wind days with the #1 to keep the sail out and not drooping.  

 

An interesting rating perspective..here in NE, if you do not declare a 
spinnaker pole, you are credited with 9 seconds.  If we race PHRF, our cruising 
rating is 132……..our racing rating is 129……it almost NEVER makes sense to go 
“Racing” the 3 seconds difference never makes the general confusion and sail 
handling circus worthwhile.  

 

We have recently gone to the ORR-EZ rating system which does not take into 
account poles, etc.  However, the same issue results.  Our rating with a 
spinnaker of any kind means that I have to give e.g. a very fast “tricked out” 
Islander 36, more than 15-20 seconds per milewhen we convert the TOT to 
TOD.  Our Cruising rating almost equals his racing rating………which he always 
uses………..  

 

We’re just getting too old to deal with the skill levels of handling any 
spinnaker.  

 

So, think about what you intend to do with the boat.  And how good your “able” 
crew is in race situations

 

As a base reference, Impromptu races (successfully) with 2 Pontos (now Karver) 
4 speed winches, and 2 Barient roof top winches for halyards and spinnaker 
sheets.  NO babystay, and a clean foredeck. 1 whisker pole (that gets used less 
than 4-5 times per season). A sail selection of a full batten main and 3 
foresails, 155%, 135% and 110%, and 6 crew, average age in the mid 70’s.   

 

If you take the racing situation out of the project, handling any spinnaker in 
any cruising plan still has the earlier and above issues.

 

Keep safety of you and your crew as a priority

 

Have Fun,

 

Ron Casciato

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

From: Rick Brass via CnC-List  
Sent: Thursday, November 18, 2021 11:59 AM
To: 'Stus-List' 
Cc: Rick Brass 
Subject: Stus-List Re: Whisker pole with a 37/40+?

 

Imzadi (an old IOR boat) came with 2 spin halyards, a track and line adjustable 
ring car on the front of the mast, and a ring on either side of the mast for 
use with a reaching strut. Her sail inventory has a 135 genoa (set up with a 
foam luff, for reefing down to about 90% on the furler) and an asymmetrical 
chute tacked to the anchor roller array about 2 feet in front of the headstay.

 

I’ve put the reaching strut and spin pole into storage (available to any lister 
who needs either one in exchange for a donation to Stu and cost of shipping). I 
carry two whisker poles on Imzadi for the headsails. 

 

As others have said, there are pretty high forces on the attachment points when 
using a pole – particularly with the spin when running. So a strong attachment 
point on the mast is needed, and use of the ring at the gooseneck is probably 
contraindicated.

 

But I think you are mistaken in thinking that you will have the pole in contact 
with the rigging. It’s true that the clew of bot the genoa and a-sail will be 
aft of the rigging when reaching, but in any sort of wind the sails will be 
held out by nature and you won’t be using the pole. I use my poles for deep 
reaching and running in light air. So the pole is never more than about 60 
degrees off the bow to hold out the clew of a sail and keep it from collapsing 
in light air – anything above about 8-10 knots of steady wind seems to keep the 
sail drawing without the pole to hold the clew. I use both poles (and both 
sails) to run wing and wing to run essentially dead downwind when cruising.

 

When doing the wing and wing thing, the poles get attached to the rings for the 
reaching strut. The genoa tack point does not change, so the clew can move up 
and down over only a small range. The tack of the a-sail can move up and down 
depending on the wind (as with any spinnaker) but the probable range is 
something like 4 or

Stus-List Re: Whisker pole with a 37/40+?

[Josh Muckley via CnC-List]

Bruce,

I have installed a whisker pole.  The link below is a folder for pictures
of the entire mast project.  Inside is a folder for the whisker pole.
Forespar makes the telescoping pole with the adjustable T-track fitting and
jaw.

https://drive.google.com/folderview?id=1eSqX7wZP1r77hD84wDmGAQSI0Tqbn9xm

More details available upon request.

Josh Muckley
S/V Sea Hawk
1989 C&C 37+
Solomons, MD

On Thu, Nov 18, 2021, 09:28 Bruce Whitmore via CnC-List <
cnc-list@cnc-list.com> wrote:

> Hello all,
>
> I was wondering if you folks can give me some advice as to rigging a
> whisker pole on our 37/40+.  The boat, which has spent a good part of its
> time on the west coast of Florida, was previously named "Dagny" and saw its
> share of races.  Yet, the boat does not have a whisker pole ring/car on the
> front of the mast, and does not have a whisker pole onboard.  Nor does it
> have the equipment for a spinnaker pole, though the boat came with a
> symmetrical spinnaker.
>
> I'd like to rig a whisker pole for use with our 150 Genoa and a large
> asymmetrical spinnaker.
>
> Funny thing is, at the gooseneck, there is a bolt that holds the two
> pieces together that has a ring mounted at the bottom.  I don't think it
> would get the perfect angle, but would it be that easy to rig the pole to
> that ring?  A photo of that bolt/ring can be found here:
>
> https://www.dropbox.com/s/re5kalfn9slfidr/Gooseneck%20Fitting.jpg?dl=0
>
> The 150 and the asymmetrical will both have the clew behind the mast most
> if not all the time I would be using it.  In the case of the big
> asymmetrical, I think it might be so far back as to bank up against the
> rigging, though obviously I haven't used one on this boat as of yet.
>
> Can anyone provide any insights?
>
> Thank you!!!
>
> Bruce Whitmore
> 1994 C&C 37/40+ "Astralis"
> Madeira Beach, FL
> Thanks to all of the subscribers that contributed to the list to help with
> the costs involved.  If you want to show your support to the list - use
> PayPal to send contribution --   https://www.paypal.me/stumurray  Thanks
> - Stu
Thanks to all of the subscribers that contributed to the list to help with the 
costs involved.  If you want to show your support to the list - use PayPal to 
send contribution --   https://www.paypal.me/stumurray  Thanks - Stu

Stus-List Re: Whisker pole with a 37/40+?

[Rick Brass via CnC-List]

Imzadi (an old IOR boat) came with 2 spin halyards, a track and line adjustable 
ring car on the front of the mast, and a ring on either side of the mast for 
use with a reaching strut. Her sail inventory has a 135 genoa (set up with a 
foam luff, for reefing down to about 90% on the furler) and an asymmetrical 
chute tacked to the anchor roller array about 2 feet in front of the headstay.

 

I’ve put the reaching strut and spin pole into storage (available to any lister 
who needs either one in exchange for a donation to Stu and cost of shipping). I 
carry two whisker poles on Imzadi for the headsails. 

 

As others have said, there are pretty high forces on the attachment points when 
using a pole – particularly with the spin when running. So a strong attachment 
point on the mast is needed, and use of the ring at the gooseneck is probably 
contraindicated.

 

But I think you are mistaken in thinking that you will have the pole in contact 
with the rigging. It’s true that the clew of bot the genoa and a-sail will be 
aft of the rigging when reaching, but in any sort of wind the sails will be 
held out by nature and you won’t be using the pole. I use my poles for deep 
reaching and running in light air. So the pole is never more than about 60 
degrees off the bow to hold out the clew of a sail and keep it from collapsing 
in light air – anything above about 8-10 knots of steady wind seems to keep the 
sail drawing without the pole to hold the clew. I use both poles (and both 
sails) to run wing and wing to run essentially dead downwind when cruising.

 

When doing the wing and wing thing, the poles get attached to the rings for the 
reaching strut. The genoa tack point does not change, so the clew can move up 
and down over only a small range. The tack of the a-sail can move up and down 
depending on the wind (as with any spinnaker) but the probable range is 
something like 4 or 5 feet max.  The pole is probably best at 90 degrees to the 
mast when connected to the clew of the sail, but I suspect a small angle is 
acceptable – at least it has been for me. 

 

Maybe you could figure out the range of clew height for you a-sail – min and 
max off the deck – and install a strong ring on either side of the mast as an 
attaching point for the pole at the midpoint of that range?  The pole would 
have a slight up or down angle some of the time, but you would only be using it 
in light winds when the compression load on the pole would be low. And two 
rings would be a lot less complex (and expensive) than installing a track and 
car on the front of the mast.

 

 

Rick Brass

Imzadi  C&C 38 mk2 #47

la Belle Aurore  C&C 25 mk1 #225

Washington, NC

 

 

 

From: Bruce Whitmore via CnC-List [mailto:cnc-list@cnc-list.com] 
Sent: Thursday, November 18, 2021 9:28 AM
To: Stus-List 
Cc: Bruce Whitmore 
Subject: Stus-List Whisker pole with a 37/40+?

 

Hello all,

 

I was wondering if you folks can give me some advice as to rigging a whisker 
pole on our 37/40+.  The boat, which has spent a good part of its time on the 
west coast of Florida, was previously named "Dagny" and saw its share of races. 
 Yet, the boat does not have a whisker pole ring/car on the front of the mast, 
and does not have a whisker pole onboard.  Nor does it have the equipment for a 
spinnaker pole, though the boat came with a symmetrical spinnaker.

 

I'd like to rig a whisker pole for use with our 150 Genoa and a large 
asymmetrical spinnaker.  

 

Funny thing is, at the gooseneck, there is a bolt that holds the two pieces 
together that has a ring mounted at the bottom.  I don't think it would get the 
perfect angle, but would it be that easy to rig the pole to that ring?  A photo 
of that bolt/ring can be found here:  

 

https://www.dropbox.com/s/re5kalfn9slfidr/Gooseneck%20Fitting.jpg?dl=0

 

The 150 and the asymmetrical will both have the clew behind the mast most if 
not all the time I would be using it.  In the case of the big asymmetrical, I 
think it might be so far back as to bank up against the rigging, though 
obviously I haven't used one on this boat as of yet.

 

Can anyone provide any insights?  

 

Thank you!!!




Bruce Whitmore

1994 C&C 37/40+ "Astralis"

Madeira Beach, FL

Thanks to all of the subscribers that contributed to the list to help with the 
costs involved.  If you want to show your support to the list - use PayPal to 
send contribution --   https://www.paypal.me/stumurray  Thanks - Stu

Stus-List Re: Whisker pole with a 37/40+?

[Todd Williams via CnC-List]

DON’T DO IT! Mount a stationary  ring (cheap option) or a Spinnaker Pole
Lift on the leading edge of the mast. You will need full mobility of your
rig when sailing with a spinnaker. If you use the ring on the trailing edge
of the mast, one wind shift will pull your pole forward and damage your
shrouds or snap the whisker pole. That big sail is a powerful force!

I think the ring of which you speak is for clipping halyards when not in
use.

TODD
Indigo Out We Go
Sodus Bay, NY

On Thu, Nov 18, 2021 at 9:42 AM Bob Mann via CnC-List 
wrote:

> Don't do it.  Spend the few bucks and set it up right.  That little ring
> won't be able to take the pressure of a whisker pole.  I don't know what
> that ring could be used for, other than maybe holding a preventer that
> isn't deployed.
>
> Bob
>
> On 11/18/2021 9:27 AM Bruce Whitmore via CnC-List 
> wrote:
>
>
> Hello all,
>
> I was wondering if you folks can give me some advice as to rigging a
> whisker pole on our 37/40+.  The boat, which has spent a good part of its
> time on the west coast of Florida, was previously named "Dagny" and saw its
> share of races.  Yet, the boat does not have a whisker pole ring/car on the
> front of the mast, and does not have a whisker pole onboard.  Nor does it
> have the equipment for a spinnaker pole, though the boat came with a
> symmetrical spinnaker.
>
> I'd like to rig a whisker pole for use with our 150 Genoa and a large
> asymmetrical spinnaker.
>
> Funny thing is, at the gooseneck, there is a bolt that holds the two
> pieces together that has a ring mounted at the bottom.  I don't think it
> would get the perfect angle, but would it be that easy to rig the pole to
> that ring?  A photo of that bolt/ring can be found here:
>
> https://www.dropbox.com/s/re5kalfn9slfidr/Gooseneck%20Fitting.jpg?dl=0
>
> The 150 and the asymmetrical will both have the clew behind the mast most
> if not all the time I would be using it.  In the case of the big
> asymmetrical, I think it might be so far back as to bank up against the
> rigging, though obviously I haven't used one on this boat as of yet.
>
> Can anyone provide any insights?
>
> Thank you!!!
>
> Bruce Whitmore
> 1994 C&C 37/40+ "Astralis"
> Madeira Beach, FL
> Thanks to all of the subscribers that contributed to the list to help with
> the costs involved. If you want to show your support to the list - use
> PayPal to send contribution -- https://www.paypal.me/stumurray Thanks -
> Stu
>
> Thanks to all of the subscribers that contributed to the list to help with
> the costs involved.  If you want to show your support to the list - use
> PayPal to send contribution --   https://www.paypal.me/stumurray  Thanks
> - Stu
Thanks to all of the subscribers that contributed to the list to help with the 
costs involved.  If you want to show your support to the list - use PayPal to 
send contribution --   https://www.paypal.me/stumurray  Thanks - Stu

Stus-List Re: Whisker pole with a 37/40+?

[Matthew via CnC-List]

Not surprisingly, my 1976 42 Custom is set up for a symmetrical chute (track 
with car on the front of the mast).  FWIW, when I bought a whisker pole for 
main and jib racing, I upgraded the fitting on the mast car to accept the 
end-fitting of the whisker pole.  I also replaced the end-fitting of the spin 
pole, so both the whisker pole and the spin pole attach to the same mast car 
fitting. 

 

 

On Nov 18, 2021, at 10:16 AM, Edd Schillay via CnC-List mailto:cnc-list@cnc-list.com> > wrote:

 

Bruce,

 

Do you have a track running up the front of your mast? If so, you would measure 
the track width and buy a ring car that would fit it. 

 

If not, you need to install the track and the appropriate ring car. The ring 
should not be in a fixed position as you will find higher and lower settings to 
be faster in different wind conditions. You’d also want to be able to send the 
car upwards to effectively dip the pole when jibing. 

 

DO NOT attached a pole to the gooseneck in your photo. That is a disaster 
waiting to happen. Seriously. Very bad. We’re talking mass hysteria. Dogs and 
cats living together…. 


All the best,

 

Edd

 

 

Edd M. Schillay

Captain of the Starship Enterprise

Bayliner 3788 | NCC-1701-C

Venice Yacht Club | Venice Island, FL

 

 








 






 

On Nov 18, 2021, at 9:27 AM, Bruce Whitmore via CnC-List mailto:cnc-list@cnc-list.com> > wrote:

 

Hello all,

 

I was wondering if you folks can give me some advice as to rigging a whisker 
pole on our 37/40+.  The boat, which has spent a good part of its time on the 
west coast of Florida, was previously named "Dagny" and saw its share of races. 
 Yet, the boat does not have a whisker pole ring/car on the front of the mast, 
and does not have a whisker pole onboard.  Nor does it have the equipment for a 
spinnaker pole, though the boat came with a symmetrical spinnaker.

 

I'd like to rig a whisker pole for use with our 150 Genoa and a large 
asymmetrical spinnaker.  

 

Funny thing is, at the gooseneck, there is a bolt that holds the two pieces 
together that has a ring mounted at the bottom.  I don't think it would get the 
perfect angle, but would it be that easy to rig the pole to that ring?  A photo 
of that bolt/ring can be found here:  

 

https://www.dropbox.com/s/re5kalfn9slfidr/Gooseneck%20Fitting.jpg?dl=0

 

The 150 and the asymmetrical will both have the clew behind the mast most if 
not all the time I would be using it.  In the case of the big asymmetrical, I 
think it might be so far back as to bank up against the rigging, though 
obviously I haven't used one on this boat as of yet.

 

Can anyone provide any insights?  

 

Thank you!!!




Bruce Whitmore

1994 C&C 37/40+ "Astralis"

Madeira Beach, FL

Thanks to all of the subscribers that contributed to the list to help with the 
costs involved.  If you want to show your support to the list - use PayPal to 
send contribution --   https://www.paypal.me/stumurray  Thanks - Stu

 

Thanks to all of the subscribers that contributed to the list to help with the 
costs involved.  If you want to show your support to the list - use PayPal to 
send contribution --   https://www.paypal.me/stumurray  Thanks - Stu

 

Thanks to all of the subscribers that contributed to the list to help with the 
costs involved.  If you want to show your support to the list - use PayPal to 
send contribution --   https://www.paypal.me/stumurray  Thanks - Stu

Stus-List Re: Whisker pole with a 37/40+?

[Edd Schillay via CnC-List]

I found a photo of the track:

https://www.dropbox.com/s/c10vvqjoad6ho7l/Screen%20shot%202011-11-14%20at%209.36.54%20AM.png?dl=0
 

 

We had a bullet car (for the spinnaker pole) and a ring car (for the whisker 
pole) on there. 

If you need parts, the Enterprise-B is in Apollo Beach somewhere. Go stealthily 
under cover of night. New owner will probably never know….   

All the best,

Edd


Edd M. Schillay
Captain of the Starship Enterprise
Bayliner 3788 | NCC-1701-C
Venice Yacht Club | Venice Island, FL












On Nov 18, 2021, at 10:16 AM, Edd Schillay via CnC-List  
wrote:

Bruce,

Do you have a track running up the front of your mast? If so, you would measure 
the track width and buy a ring car that would fit it. 

If not, you need to install the track and the appropriate ring car. The ring 
should not be in a fixed position as you will find higher and lower settings to 
be faster in different wind conditions. You’d also want to be able to send the 
car upwards to effectively dip the pole when jibing. 

DO NOT attached a pole to the gooseneck in your photo. That is a disaster 
waiting to happen. Seriously. Very bad. We’re talking mass hysteria. Dogs and 
cats living together…. 

All the best,

Edd


Edd M. Schillay
Captain of the Starship Enterprise
Bayliner 3788 | NCC-1701-C
Venice Yacht Club | Venice Island, FL












On Nov 18, 2021, at 9:27 AM, Bruce Whitmore via CnC-List mailto:cnc-list@cnc-list.com>> wrote:

Hello all,

I was wondering if you folks can give me some advice as to rigging a whisker 
pole on our 37/40+.  The boat, which has spent a good part of its time on the 
west coast of Florida, was previously named "Dagny" and saw its share of races. 
 Yet, the boat does not have a whisker pole ring/car on the front of the mast, 
and does not have a whisker pole onboard.  Nor does it have the equipment for a 
spinnaker pole, though the boat came with a symmetrical spinnaker.

I'd like to rig a whisker pole for use with our 150 Genoa and a large 
asymmetrical spinnaker.  

Funny thing is, at the gooseneck, there is a bolt that holds the two pieces 
together that has a ring mounted at the bottom.  I don't think it would get the 
perfect angle, but would it be that easy to rig the pole to that ring?  A photo 
of that bolt/ring can be found here:  

https://www.dropbox.com/s/re5kalfn9slfidr/Gooseneck%20Fitting.jpg?dl=0 


The 150 and the asymmetrical will both have the clew behind the mast most if 
not all the time I would be using it.  In the case of the big asymmetrical, I 
think it might be so far back as to bank up against the rigging, though 
obviously I haven't used one on this boat as of yet.

Can anyone provide any insights?  

Thank you!!!

Bruce Whitmore
1994 C&C 37/40+ "Astralis"
Madeira Beach, FL
Thanks to all of the subscribers that contributed to the list to help with the 
costs involved.  If you want to show your support to the list - use PayPal to 
send contribution --   https://www.paypal.me/stumurray 
  Thanks - Stu

Thanks to all of the subscribers that contributed to the list to help with the 
costs involved.  If you want to show your support to the list - use PayPal to 
send contribution --   https://www.paypal.me/stumurray  Thanks - Stu

Thanks to all of the subscribers that contributed to the list to help with the 
costs involved.  If you want to show your support to the list - use PayPal to 
send contribution --   https://www.paypal.me/stumurray  Thanks - Stu

Stus-List Re: Whisker pole with a 37/40+?

[Edd Schillay via CnC-List]

Bruce,

Do you have a track running up the front of your mast? If so, you would measure 
the track width and buy a ring car that would fit it. 

If not, you need to install the track and the appropriate ring car. The ring 
should not be in a fixed position as you will find higher and lower settings to 
be faster in different wind conditions. You’d also want to be able to send the 
car upwards to effectively dip the pole when jibing. 

DO NOT attached a pole to the gooseneck in your photo. That is a disaster 
waiting to happen. Seriously. Very bad. We’re talking mass hysteria. Dogs and 
cats living together…. 

All the best,

Edd


Edd M. Schillay
Captain of the Starship Enterprise
Bayliner 3788 | NCC-1701-C
Venice Yacht Club | Venice Island, FL












On Nov 18, 2021, at 9:27 AM, Bruce Whitmore via CnC-List 
 wrote:

Hello all,

I was wondering if you folks can give me some advice as to rigging a whisker 
pole on our 37/40+.  The boat, which has spent a good part of its time on the 
west coast of Florida, was previously named "Dagny" and saw its share of races. 
 Yet, the boat does not have a whisker pole ring/car on the front of the mast, 
and does not have a whisker pole onboard.  Nor does it have the equipment for a 
spinnaker pole, though the boat came with a symmetrical spinnaker.

I'd like to rig a whisker pole for use with our 150 Genoa and a large 
asymmetrical spinnaker.  

Funny thing is, at the gooseneck, there is a bolt that holds the two pieces 
together that has a ring mounted at the bottom.  I don't think it would get the 
perfect angle, but would it be that easy to rig the pole to that ring?  A photo 
of that bolt/ring can be found here:  

https://www.dropbox.com/s/re5kalfn9slfidr/Gooseneck%20Fitting.jpg?dl=0 


The 150 and the asymmetrical will both have the clew behind the mast most if 
not all the time I would be using it.  In the case of the big asymmetrical, I 
think it might be so far back as to bank up against the rigging, though 
obviously I haven't used one on this boat as of yet.

Can anyone provide any insights?  

Thank you!!!

Bruce Whitmore
1994 C&C 37/40+ "Astralis"
Madeira Beach, FL
Thanks to all of the subscribers that contributed to the list to help with the 
costs involved.  If you want to show your support to the list - use PayPal to 
send contribution --   https://www.paypal.me/stumurray  Thanks - Stu

Thanks to all of the subscribers that contributed to the list to help with the 
costs involved.  If you want to show your support to the list - use PayPal to 
send contribution --   https://www.paypal.me/stumurray  Thanks - Stu

Stus-List Re: Whisker pole with a 37/40+?

[Dennis C. via CnC-List]

Do it right.

As a minimum, install a proper ring on the forward side of the mast at the
proper height.

If it were me, I'd make a trip to Don's Marine Salvage and try to find a
used Harken track and spinnaker pole car.  For your purposes, you could
probably get by with a pin stop car.  Keep an eye on eBay.

Keep in mind the forces on a whisker pole can be quite high.  Make sure you
get the proper size.  Go here and click C&C then scroll to find your
model.  https://www.forespar.com/WhiskerPoleByBoatModel/#c

--
Dennis C.
Touche' 35-1 #83
Mandeville, LA

On Thu, Nov 18, 2021 at 8:28 AM Bruce Whitmore via CnC-List <
cnc-list@cnc-list.com> wrote:

> Hello all,
>
> I was wondering if you folks can give me some advice as to rigging a
> whisker pole on our 37/40+.  The boat, which has spent a good part of its
> time on the west coast of Florida, was previously named "Dagny" and saw its
> share of races.  Yet, the boat does not have a whisker pole ring/car on the
> front of the mast, and does not have a whisker pole onboard.  Nor does it
> have the equipment for a spinnaker pole, though the boat came with a
> symmetrical spinnaker.
>
> I'd like to rig a whisker pole for use with our 150 Genoa and a large
> asymmetrical spinnaker.
>
> Funny thing is, at the gooseneck, there is a bolt that holds the two
> pieces together that has a ring mounted at the bottom.  I don't think it
> would get the perfect angle, but would it be that easy to rig the pole to
> that ring?  A photo of that bolt/ring can be found here:
>
> https://www.dropbox.com/s/re5kalfn9slfidr/Gooseneck%20Fitting.jpg?dl=0
>
> The 150 and the asymmetrical will both have the clew behind the mast most
> if not all the time I would be using it.  In the case of the big
> asymmetrical, I think it might be so far back as to bank up against the
> rigging, though obviously I haven't used one on this boat as of yet.
>
> Can anyone provide any insights?
>
> Thank you!!!
>
> Bruce Whitmore
> 1994 C&C 37/40+ "Astralis"
> Madeira Beach, FL
> Thanks to all of the subscribers that contributed to the list to help with
> the costs involved.  If you want to show your support to the list - use
> PayPal to send contribution --   https://www.paypal.me/stumurray  Thanks
> - Stu
Thanks to all of the subscribers that contributed to the list to help with the 
costs involved.  If you want to show your support to the list - use PayPal to 
send contribution --   https://www.paypal.me/stumurray  Thanks - Stu

Stus-List Re: Whisker pole with a 37/40+?

[Charlie Nelson via CnC-List]

I second Bob's comment. 
Whisker or spinnaker poles exert lots of pressure on the fitting which gets 
transferred to the mast/rig. If the ring/fitting lets go, the pole would shoot 
across the deck and likely not stop until it hit something (human or otherwise) 
or was stopped by the clew of the sail tangling in the rigging!
I have had plenty of adventures with a properly mounted pole and fitting when 
flying a kite--less so with a whicker pole--but enough that I do not want to 
worry about a rigging failure in the midst of these adventures! 
At a minimum, mount a proper ring securely to the mast at height your sailmaker 
might suggest. Ideally, mount the ring on a track so the aft pole end can be 
adjusted for the sail and conditions. 
FWIW,
Charlie NelsonWater Phantom1995 C&C 36 XL/kcb


-Original Message-
From: Bob Mann via CnC-List 
To: Stus-List 
Cc: Bob Mann 
Sent: Thu, Nov 18, 2021 9:42 am
Subject: Stus-List Re: Whisker pole with a 37/40+?

  Don't do it.  Spend the few bucks and set it up right.  That little ring 
won't be able to take the pressure of a whisker pole.  I don't know what that 
ring could be used for, other than maybe holding a preventer that isn't 
deployed. 
   
   Bob  
  On 11/18/2021 9:27 AM Bruce Whitmore via CnC-List  
wrote:   
   
   Hello all,  
   I was wondering if you folks can give me some advice as to rigging a whisker 
pole on our 37/40+.  The boat, which has spent a good part of its time on the 
west coast of Florida, was previously named "Dagny" and saw its share of races. 
 Yet, the boat does not have a whisker pole ring/car on the front of the mast, 
and does not have a whisker pole onboard.  Nor does it have the equipment for a 
spinnaker pole, though the boat came with a symmetrical spinnaker.   
   I'd like to rig a whisker pole for use with our 150 Genoa and a large 
asymmetrical spinnaker.     
   Funny thing is, at the gooseneck, there is a bolt that holds the two pieces 
together that has a ring mounted at the bottom.  I don't think it would get the 
perfect angle, but would it be that easy to rig the pole to that ring?  A photo 
of that bolt/ring can be found here:     
   https://www.dropbox.com/s/re5kalfn9slfidr/Gooseneck%20Fitting.jpg?dl=0   
   The 150 and the asymmetrical will both have the clew behind the mast most if 
not all the time I would be using it.  In the case of the big asymmetrical, I 
think it might be so far back as to bank up against the rigging, though 
obviously I haven't used one on this boat as of yet. 
   
   Can anyone provide any insights?     
   Thank you!!!   
 Bruce Whitmore   1994 C&C 37/40+ "Astralis"   Madeira Beach, FL 
  Thanks to all of the subscribers that contributed to the list to help 
with the costs involved. If you want to show your support to the list - use 
PayPal to send contribution -- https://www.paypal.me/stumurray Thanks - Stu 
 Thanks to all of the subscribers that contributed to the list to help with the 
costs involved.  If you want to show your support to the list - use PayPal to 
send contribution --  https://www.paypal.me/stumurray  Thanks - StuThanks to all of the subscribers that contributed to the list to help with the 
costs involved.  If you want to show your support to the list - use PayPal to 
send contribution --   https://www.paypal.me/stumurray  Thanks - Stu

Stus-List Re: Whisker pole with a 37/40+?

[Bill Coleman via CnC-List]

Looks like the PO took that pin with the ring on it and turned it upside down 
when he had that barbaric looking Tack clevis with the hooks made. (sorry)

Seems like that would be a little low for a Whisker/Spin Pole to me. Is there 
any reason you couldn’t just attached a ring to the front of the mast?

I put a long Harken track on the front of my mast to store the pole, it worked 
great to store it and deploy it.

 

 

Bill Coleman

Entrada, Erie, PA

 

 

 

From: Bruce Whitmore via CnC-List [mailto:cnc-list@cnc-list.com] 
Sent: Thursday, November 18, 2021 9:28 AM
To: Stus-List
Cc: Bruce Whitmore
Subject: Stus-List Whisker pole with a 37/40+?

 

Hello all,

 

I was wondering if you folks can give me some advice as to rigging a whisker 
pole on our 37/40+.  The boat, which has spent a good part of its time on the 
west coast of Florida, was previously named "Dagny" and saw its share of races. 
 Yet, the boat does not have a whisker pole ring/car on the front of the mast, 
and does not have a whisker pole onboard.  Nor does it have the equipment for a 
spinnaker pole, though the boat came with a symmetrical spinnaker.

 

I'd like to rig a whisker pole for use with our 150 Genoa and a large 
asymmetrical spinnaker.  

 

Funny thing is, at the gooseneck, there is a bolt that holds the two pieces 
together that has a ring mounted at the bottom.  I don't think it would get the 
perfect angle, but would it be that easy to rig the pole to that ring?  A photo 
of that bolt/ring can be found here:  

 

https://www.dropbox.com/s/re5kalfn9slfidr/Gooseneck%20Fitting.jpg?dl=0

 

The 150 and the asymmetrical will both have the clew behind the mast most if 
not all the time I would be using it.  In the case of the big asymmetrical, I 
think it might be so far back as to bank up against the rigging, though 
obviously I haven't used one on this boat as of yet.

 

Can anyone provide any insights?  

 

Thank you!!!




Bruce Whitmore

1994 C&C 37/40+ "Astralis"

Madeira Beach, FL

Thanks to all of the subscribers that contributed to the list to help with the 
costs involved.  If you want to show your support to the list - use PayPal to 
send contribution --   https://www.paypal.me/stumurray  Thanks - Stu

Stus-List Re: Whisker pole with a 37/40+?

[Bob Mann via CnC-List]

Don't do it.  Spend the few bucks and set it up right.  That little ring won't 
be able to take the pressure of a whisker pole.  I don't know what that ring 
could be used for, other than maybe holding a preventer that isn't deployed.

Bob

> On 11/18/2021 9:27 AM Bruce Whitmore via CnC-List  
> wrote:
> 
> 
> Hello all,
> 
> I was wondering if you folks can give me some advice as to rigging a 
> whisker pole on our 37/40+.  The boat, which has spent a good part of its 
> time on the west coast of Florida, was previously named "Dagny" and saw its 
> share of races.  Yet, the boat does not have a whisker pole ring/car on the 
> front of the mast, and does not have a whisker pole onboard.  Nor does it 
> have the equipment for a spinnaker pole, though the boat came with a 
> symmetrical spinnaker.
> 
> I'd like to rig a whisker pole for use with our 150 Genoa and a large 
> asymmetrical spinnaker.  
> 
> Funny thing is, at the gooseneck, there is a bolt that holds the two 
> pieces together that has a ring mounted at the bottom.  I don't think it 
> would get the perfect angle, but would it be that easy to rig the pole to 
> that ring?  A photo of that bolt/ring can be found here:  
> 
> https://www.dropbox.com/s/re5kalfn9slfidr/Gooseneck%20Fitting.jpg?dl=0
> 
> The 150 and the asymmetrical will both have the clew behind the mast most 
> if not all the time I would be using it.  In the case of the big 
> asymmetrical, I think it might be so far back as to bank up against the 
> rigging, though obviously I haven't used one on this boat as of yet.
> 
> Can anyone provide any insights?  
> 
> Thank you!!!
> 
> Bruce Whitmore
> 1994 C&C 37/40+ "Astralis"
> Madeira Beach, FL
> Thanks to all of the subscribers that contributed to the list to help 
> with the costs involved. If you want to show your support to the list - use 
> PayPal to send contribution -- https://www.paypal.me/stumurray Thanks - Stu
> 
Thanks to all of the subscribers that contributed to the list to help with the 
costs involved.  If you want to show your support to the list - use PayPal to 
send contribution --   https://www.paypal.me/stumurray  Thanks - Stu

Stus-List Whisker pole with a 37/40+?

[Bruce Whitmore via CnC-List]

Hello all,

I was wondering if you folks can give me some advice as to rigging a
whisker pole on our 37/40+.  The boat, which has spent a good part of its
time on the west coast of Florida, was previously named "Dagny" and saw its
share of races.  Yet, the boat does not have a whisker pole ring/car on the
front of the mast, and does not have a whisker pole onboard.  Nor does it
have the equipment for a spinnaker pole, though the boat came with a
symmetrical spinnaker.

I'd like to rig a whisker pole for use with our 150 Genoa and a large
asymmetrical spinnaker.

Funny thing is, at the gooseneck, there is a bolt that holds the two pieces
together that has a ring mounted at the bottom.  I don't think it would get
the perfect angle, but would it be that easy to rig the pole to that ring?
A photo of that bolt/ring can be found here:

https://www.dropbox.com/s/re5kalfn9slfidr/Gooseneck%20Fitting.jpg?dl=0

The 150 and the asymmetrical will both have the clew behind the mast most
if not all the time I would be using it.  In the case of the big
asymmetrical, I think it might be so far back as to bank up against the
rigging, though obviously I haven't used one on this boat as of yet.

Can anyone provide any insights?

Thank you!!!

Bruce Whitmore
1994 C&C 37/40+ "Astralis"
Madeira Beach, FL
Thanks to all of the subscribers that contributed to the list to help with the 
costs involved.  If you want to show your support to the list - use PayPal to 
send contribution --   https://www.paypal.me/stumurray  Thanks - Stu