Re: Stus-List Racing Marks Question -- Not C&C Related

[Dennis C. via CnC-List]

In my club, it's accepted that if a mark is missing, boats make every
attempt to turn at the stated location of the mark.  We have a couple of
permanent club-maintained race marks that are well offshore (miles).  They
disappear every few years.  We usually don't know it until we discover it
during a race.  In that case, boats turn at the plotted location.

Except for dinghy races, all our marks are located at plotted and
publicized positions.

Rule 34 is fairly moot on a mark missing during a race.  Conduct for
missing marks and the location of marks should be stated in the sailing
instructions for the race/regatta.

Dennis C.
Touche' 35-1 #83
Mandeville, LA

On Thu, Mar 5, 2020 at 4:13 PM Edd Schillay via CnC-List <
cnc-list@cnc-list.com> wrote:

> Listers,
>
> As you all know, this past summer, I relocated my home, office and the
> Enterprise from City Island to the Suncoast of Florida — and I’m getting
> involved in the race management over here, which has been terribly lazy.
>
> One of the big issues we face is lack of resources. Marks are dropped in
> the water a day or two in advance of a regatta and then are either cut
> loose, vandalized or have broken free by the time a race is actually run.
> And there is no chase boat usually available to either drop a new mark or
> put up an M flag to act as one.
>
> Someone brought up the idea of a virtual mark in case a mark is missing,
> which is a new concept to me. I was thinking of language in the SIs that
> say something along the lines of “If a mark is missing or has moved more
> than 300 feet from its stated latitude/longitude position, and the race
> committee is unable to replace it, then the mark shall be the stated
> latitude/longitude position.”
>
> Basically, the thought is, especially since this happens now and again,
> not to have to cancel a regatta because a mark has disappeared.
>
> Has anyone ever used “virtual marks”? Does anyone object to the practice?
> If so, why?
>
> Appreciate anyone’s input. Even Risch’s.
>
> All the best,
>
> Edd
>
>
> Edd M. Schillay
> Captain of the Starship Enterprise
> C&C 37+ | Sail No: NCC-1701-B
> Venice Yacht Club | Venice Island, FL
>
> Starship Enterprise's Captain's Log 
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
> ___
>
> Thanks everyone for supporting this list with your contributions.  Each
> and every one is greatly appreciated.  If you want to support the list -
> use PayPal to send contribution --   https://www.paypal.me/stumurray
>
>
___

Thanks everyone for supporting this list with your contributions.  Each and 
every one is greatly appreciated.  If you want to support the list - use PayPal 
to send contribution --   https://www.paypal.me/stumurray

Re: Stus-List Racing Marks Question -- Not C&C Related

[Matt Wolford via CnC-List]

I recall being in a race a number of years ago in which the mark was missing.  
The owner of the lead boat claimed the boat did a “navigational rounding” – 
which it may have done – but everyone was so skeptical that the race was 
abandoned.

 

As long as you have a fleet of Corinthian sailors and everyone agrees ahead of 
time, I suppose you can do whatever the fleet decides.  That said, don’t be 
surprised if you get some disgruntlement in practice. 

 

From: CnC-List  On Behalf Of Edd Schillay via 
CnC-List
Sent: Thursday, March 05, 2020 5:13 PM
To: Edd Schillay via CnC-List 
Cc: Edd Schillay 
Subject: Stus-List Racing Marks Question -- Not C&C Related

 

Listers,

 

As you all know, this past summer, I relocated my home, office and the 
Enterprise from City Island to the Suncoast of Florida — and I’m getting 
involved in the race management over here, which has been terribly lazy. 

 

One of the big issues we face is lack of resources. Marks are dropped in the 
water a day or two in advance of a regatta and then are either cut loose, 
vandalized or have broken free by the time a race is actually run. And there is 
no chase boat usually available to either drop a new mark or put up an M flag 
to act as one. 

 

Someone brought up the idea of a virtual mark in case a mark is missing, which 
is a new concept to me. I was thinking of language in the SIs that say 
something along the lines of “If a mark is missing or has moved more than 300 
feet from its stated latitude/longitude position, and the race committee is 
unable to replace it, then the mark shall be the stated latitude/longitude 
position.”

 

Basically, the thought is, especially since this happens now and again, not to 
have to cancel a regatta because a mark has disappeared. 

 

Has anyone ever used “virtual marks”? Does anyone object to the practice? If 
so, why? 

 

Appreciate anyone’s input. Even Risch’s. 


All the best,

 

Edd

 

 

Edd M. Schillay

Captain of the Starship Enterprise

C&C 37+ | Sail No: NCC-1701-B

Venice Yacht Club | Venice Island, FL

 

  Starship Enterprise's Captain's Log

 








 






 

___

Thanks everyone for supporting this list with your contributions.  Each and 
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Re: Stus-List Racing Marks Question -- Not C&C Related

[Della Barba, Joe via CnC-List]

IMHO this is a bad idea.
The whole idea of how mark roundings happen in racing cannot work if the 
notional idea of where the mark is differs by even 5 or 10 feet from boat to 
boat. I would either use government marks or you all cough up enough cash to 
get an old Whaler and teenager to run around moving marks.
Joe
Coquina


From: CnC-List  On Behalf Of Matt Wolford via 
CnC-List
Sent: Friday, March 6, 2020 9:17 AM
To: cnc-list@cnc-list.com
Cc: wolf...@erie.net
Subject: [EXTERNAL] Re: Stus-List Racing Marks Question -- Not C&C Related

I recall being in a race a number of years ago in which the mark was missing.  
The owner of the lead boat claimed the boat did a “navigational rounding” – 
which it may have done – but everyone was so skeptical that the race was 
abandoned.

As long as you have a fleet of Corinthian sailors and everyone agrees ahead of 
time, I suppose you can do whatever the fleet decides.  That said, don’t be 
surprised if you get some disgruntlement in practice.

From: CnC-List 
mailto:cnc-list-boun...@cnc-list.com>> On Behalf 
Of Edd Schillay via CnC-List
Sent: Thursday, March 05, 2020 5:13 PM
To: Edd Schillay via CnC-List 
mailto:cnc-list@cnc-list.com>>
Cc: Edd Schillay mailto:e...@schillay.com>>
Subject: Stus-List Racing Marks Question -- Not C&C Related

Listers,

As you all know, this past summer, I relocated my home, office and the 
Enterprise from City Island to the Suncoast of Florida — and I’m getting 
involved in the race management over here, which has been terribly lazy.

One of the big issues we face is lack of resources. Marks are dropped in the 
water a day or two in advance of a regatta and then are either cut loose, 
vandalized or have broken free by the time a race is actually run. And there is 
no chase boat usually available to either drop a new mark or put up an M flag 
to act as one.

Someone brought up the idea of a virtual mark in case a mark is missing, which 
is a new concept to me. I was thinking of language in the SIs that say 
something along the lines of “If a mark is missing or has moved more than 300 
feet from its stated latitude/longitude position, and the race committee is 
unable to replace it, then the mark shall be the stated latitude/longitude 
position.”

Basically, the thought is, especially since this happens now and again, not to 
have to cancel a regatta because a mark has disappeared.

Has anyone ever used “virtual marks”? Does anyone object to the practice? If 
so, why?

Appreciate anyone’s input. Even Risch’s.

All the best,

Edd


Edd M. Schillay
Captain of the Starship Enterprise
C&C 37+ | Sail No: NCC-1701-B
Venice Yacht Club | Venice Island, FL

Starship Enterprise's Captain's 
Log<https://protect2.fireeye.com/v1/url?k=8b8d4e0f-d71b06af-8b8d6778-0cc47adca788-2339de501a1a3902&q=1&e=2b84bce6-00f4-439c-a29c-a36df77fc2c1&u=http%3A%2F%2Fenterpriseb.blogspot.com%2F>











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every one is greatly appreciated.  If you want to support the list - use PayPal 
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Re: Stus-List Racing Marks Question -- Not C&C Related

[Matt Wolford via CnC-List]

As usual, I agree with Joe.

 

From: CnC-List  On Behalf Of Della Barba, Joe 
via CnC-List
Sent: Friday, March 06, 2020 9:41 AM
To: cnc-list@cnc-list.com
Cc: Della Barba, Joe 
Subject: Re: Stus-List Racing Marks Question -- Not C&C Related

 

IMHO this is a bad idea.

The whole idea of how mark roundings happen in racing cannot work if the 
notional idea of where the mark is differs by even 5 or 10 feet from boat to 
boat. I would either use government marks or you all cough up enough cash to 
get an old Whaler and teenager to run around moving marks.

Joe

Coquina

 

 

From: CnC-List mailto:cnc-list-boun...@cnc-list.com> > On Behalf Of Matt Wolford via CnC-List
Sent: Friday, March 6, 2020 9:17 AM
To: cnc-list@cnc-list.com <mailto:cnc-list@cnc-list.com> 
Cc: wolf...@erie.net <mailto:wolf...@erie.net> 
Subject: [EXTERNAL] Re: Stus-List Racing Marks Question -- Not C&C Related

 

I recall being in a race a number of years ago in which the mark was missing.  
The owner of the lead boat claimed the boat did a “navigational rounding” – 
which it may have done – but everyone was so skeptical that the race was 
abandoned.

 

As long as you have a fleet of Corinthian sailors and everyone agrees ahead of 
time, I suppose you can do whatever the fleet decides.  That said, don’t be 
surprised if you get some disgruntlement in practice. 

 

From: CnC-List mailto:cnc-list-boun...@cnc-list.com> > On Behalf Of Edd Schillay via CnC-List
Sent: Thursday, March 05, 2020 5:13 PM
To: Edd Schillay via CnC-List mailto:cnc-list@cnc-list.com> >
Cc: Edd Schillay mailto:e...@schillay.com> >
Subject: Stus-List Racing Marks Question -- Not C&C Related

 

Listers,

 

As you all know, this past summer, I relocated my home, office and the 
Enterprise from City Island to the Suncoast of Florida — and I’m getting 
involved in the race management over here, which has been terribly lazy. 

 

One of the big issues we face is lack of resources. Marks are dropped in the 
water a day or two in advance of a regatta and then are either cut loose, 
vandalized or have broken free by the time a race is actually run. And there is 
no chase boat usually available to either drop a new mark or put up an M flag 
to act as one. 

 

Someone brought up the idea of a virtual mark in case a mark is missing, which 
is a new concept to me. I was thinking of language in the SIs that say 
something along the lines of “If a mark is missing or has moved more than 300 
feet from its stated latitude/longitude position, and the race committee is 
unable to replace it, then the mark shall be the stated latitude/longitude 
position.”

 

Basically, the thought is, especially since this happens now and again, not to 
have to cancel a regatta because a mark has disappeared. 

 

Has anyone ever used “virtual marks”? Does anyone object to the practice? If 
so, why? 

 

Appreciate anyone’s input. Even Risch’s. 


All the best,

 

Edd

 

 

Edd M. Schillay

Captain of the Starship Enterprise

C&C 37+ | Sail No: NCC-1701-B

Venice Yacht Club | Venice Island, FL

 

 
<https://protect2.fireeye.com/v1/url?k=8b8d4e0f-d71b06af-8b8d6778-0cc47adca788-2339de501a1a3902&q=1&e=2b84bce6-00f4-439c-a29c-a36df77fc2c1&u=http%3A%2F%2Fenterpriseb.blogspot.com%2F>
 Starship Enterprise's Captain's Log

 








 

 

 

___

Thanks everyone for supporting this list with your contributions.  Each and 
every one is greatly appreciated.  If you want to support the list - use PayPal 
to send contribution --   https://www.paypal.me/stumurray

Re: Stus-List Racing Marks Question -- Not C&C Related

[Novabraid via CnC-List]

I have no firsthand experience with “virtual marks” in my racing history.  But 
one of the best features of sailboat racing is mark roundings, especially when 
competition is close and there are tactical decisions that would allow one boat 
to gain places over another.  How in the world are you going to determine a 3 
boat length circle around a “virtual mark”?  Why would anyone need room at the 
mark if there was no actual mark to either hit or avoid?

And if there’s such a reliance on the accuracy of GPS for mark roundings, why 
not take it a step further and draw a virtual line a the start that can be 
varied as the wind shifts?  Doesn’t everyone have America’s Cup grade 
electronic telemetry on their 40 year old C&Cs?

Edd, if the drop marks you discuss are so easy to move or get stolen to often, 
why not simply use government marks as race marks and set the start line 
accordingly?  Surely the RC can manage to drop a single mark to set the angle 
of a start line…

Chuck Gilchrest

S/V Half Magic

1983 35 Landfall

Padanaram, MA

From: CnC-List  On Behalf Of Matt Wolford via 
CnC-List
Sent: Friday, March 6, 2020 9:17 AM
To: cnc-list@cnc-list.com
Cc: wolf...@erie.net
Subject: Re: Stus-List Racing Marks Question -- Not C&C Related

 

I recall being in a race a number of years ago in which the mark was missing.  
The owner of the lead boat claimed the boat did a “navigational rounding” – 
which it may have done – but everyone was so skeptical that the race was 
abandoned.

 

As long as you have a fleet of Corinthian sailors and everyone agrees ahead of 
time, I suppose you can do whatever the fleet decides.  That said, don’t be 
surprised if you get some disgruntlement in practice. 

 

From: CnC-List mailto:cnc-list-boun...@cnc-list.com> > On Behalf Of Edd Schillay via CnC-List
Sent: Thursday, March 05, 2020 5:13 PM
To: Edd Schillay via CnC-List mailto:cnc-list@cnc-list.com> >
Cc: Edd Schillay mailto:e...@schillay.com> >
Subject: Stus-List Racing Marks Question -- Not C&C Related

 

Listers,

 

As you all know, this past summer, I relocated my home, office and the 
Enterprise from City Island to the Suncoast of Florida — and I’m getting 
involved in the race management over here, which has been terribly lazy. 

 

One of the big issues we face is lack of resources. Marks are dropped in the 
water a day or two in advance of a regatta and then are either cut loose, 
vandalized or have broken free by the time a race is actually run. And there is 
no chase boat usually available to either drop a new mark or put up an M flag 
to act as one. 

 

Someone brought up the idea of a virtual mark in case a mark is missing, which 
is a new concept to me. I was thinking of language in the SIs that say 
something along the lines of “If a mark is missing or has moved more than 300 
feet from its stated latitude/longitude position, and the race committee is 
unable to replace it, then the mark shall be the stated latitude/longitude 
position.”

 

Basically, the thought is, especially since this happens now and again, not to 
have to cancel a regatta because a mark has disappeared. 

 

Has anyone ever used “virtual marks”? Does anyone object to the practice? If 
so, why? 

 

Appreciate anyone’s input. Even Risch’s. 


All the best,

 

Edd

 

 

Edd M. Schillay

Captain of the Starship Enterprise

C&C 37+ | Sail No: NCC-1701-B

Venice Yacht Club | Venice Island, FL

 

 <http://enterpriseb.blogspot.com/> Starship Enterprise's Captain's Log

 








 





 

___

Thanks everyone for supporting this list with your contributions.  Each and 
every one is greatly appreciated.  If you want to support the list - use PayPal 
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Re: Stus-List Racing Marks Question -- Not C&C Related

[David Risch via CnC-List]

Agree with Chuck...that being said if its an offshore race waypoints are an 
option.  But coastal?  Too much room for accidental and intentional shenanigans.




Sent from my Android. Please forgive typos. Thank you.


From: CnC-List  on behalf of Novabraid via 
CnC-List 
Sent: Friday, March 6, 2020 10:32:27 AM
To: cnc-list@cnc-list.com 
Cc: csgilchr...@comcast.net 
Subject: Re: Stus-List Racing Marks Question -- Not C&C Related


I have no firsthand experience with “virtual marks” in my racing history.  But 
one of the best features of sailboat racing is mark roundings, especially when 
competition is close and there are tactical decisions that would allow one boat 
to gain places over another.  How in the world are you going to determine a 3 
boat length circle around a “virtual mark”?  Why would anyone need room at the 
mark if there was no actual mark to either hit or avoid?

And if there’s such a reliance on the accuracy of GPS for mark roundings, why 
not take it a step further and draw a virtual line a the start that can be 
varied as the wind shifts?  Doesn’t everyone have America’s Cup grade 
electronic telemetry on their 40 year old C&Cs?

Edd, if the drop marks you discuss are so easy to move or get stolen to often, 
why not simply use government marks as race marks and set the start line 
accordingly?  Surely the RC can manage to drop a single mark to set the angle 
of a start line…

Chuck Gilchrest

S/V Half Magic

1983 35 Landfall

Padanaram, MA

From: CnC-List  On Behalf Of Matt Wolford via 
CnC-List
Sent: Friday, March 6, 2020 9:17 AM
To: cnc-list@cnc-list.com
Cc: wolf...@erie.net
Subject: Re: Stus-List Racing Marks Question -- Not C&C Related



I recall being in a race a number of years ago in which the mark was missing.  
The owner of the lead boat claimed the boat did a “navigational rounding” – 
which it may have done – but everyone was so skeptical that the race was 
abandoned.



As long as you have a fleet of Corinthian sailors and everyone agrees ahead of 
time, I suppose you can do whatever the fleet decides.  That said, don’t be 
surprised if you get some disgruntlement in practice.



From: CnC-List 
mailto:cnc-list-boun...@cnc-list.com>> On Behalf 
Of Edd Schillay via CnC-List
Sent: Thursday, March 05, 2020 5:13 PM
To: Edd Schillay via CnC-List 
mailto:cnc-list@cnc-list.com>>
Cc: Edd Schillay mailto:e...@schillay.com>>
Subject: Stus-List Racing Marks Question -- Not C&C Related



Listers,



As you all know, this past summer, I relocated my home, office and the 
Enterprise from City Island to the Suncoast of Florida — and I’m getting 
involved in the race management over here, which has been terribly lazy.



One of the big issues we face is lack of resources. Marks are dropped in the 
water a day or two in advance of a regatta and then are either cut loose, 
vandalized or have broken free by the time a race is actually run. And there is 
no chase boat usually available to either drop a new mark or put up an M flag 
to act as one.



Someone brought up the idea of a virtual mark in case a mark is missing, which 
is a new concept to me. I was thinking of language in the SIs that say 
something along the lines of “If a mark is missing or has moved more than 300 
feet from its stated latitude/longitude position, and the race committee is 
unable to replace it, then the mark shall be the stated latitude/longitude 
position.”



Basically, the thought is, especially since this happens now and again, not to 
have to cancel a regatta because a mark has disappeared.



Has anyone ever used “virtual marks”? Does anyone object to the practice? If 
so, why?



Appreciate anyone’s input. Even Risch’s.

All the best,



Edd





Edd M. Schillay

Captain of the Starship Enterprise

C&C 37+ | Sail No: NCC-1701-B

Venice Yacht Club | Venice Island, FL



Starship Enterprise's Captain's Log<http://enterpriseb.blogspot.com/>














___

Thanks everyone for supporting this list with your contributions.  Each and 
every one is greatly appreciated.  If you want to support the list - use PayPal 
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Re: Stus-List Racing Marks Question -- Not C&C Related

[dwight veinot via CnC-List]

Same here agree with Joe

On Fri, Mar 6, 2020 at 11:14 AM Matt Wolford via CnC-List <
cnc-list@cnc-list.com> wrote:

> As usual, I agree with Joe.
>
>
>
> *From:* CnC-List  *On Behalf Of *Della
> Barba, Joe via CnC-List
> *Sent:* Friday, March 06, 2020 9:41 AM
> *To:* cnc-list@cnc-list.com
> *Cc:* Della Barba, Joe 
> *Subject:* Re: Stus-List Racing Marks Question -- Not C&C Related
>
>
>
> IMHO this is a bad idea.
>
> The whole idea of how mark roundings happen in racing cannot work if the
> notional idea of where the mark is differs by even 5 or 10 feet from boat
> to boat. I would either use government marks or you all cough up enough
> cash to get an old Whaler and teenager to run around moving marks.
>
> Joe
>
> Coquina
>
>
>
>
>
> *From:* CnC-List  *On Behalf Of *Matt
> Wolford via CnC-List
> *Sent:* Friday, March 6, 2020 9:17 AM
> *To:* cnc-list@cnc-list.com
> *Cc:* wolf...@erie.net
> *Subject:* [EXTERNAL] Re: Stus-List Racing Marks Question -- Not C&C
> Related
>
>
>
> I recall being in a race a number of years ago in which the mark was
> missing.  The owner of the lead boat claimed the boat did a “navigational
> rounding” – which it may have done – but everyone was so skeptical that the
> race was abandoned.
>
>
>
> As long as you have a fleet of Corinthian sailors and everyone agrees
> ahead of time, I suppose you can do whatever the fleet decides.  That said,
> don’t be surprised if you get some disgruntlement in practice.
>
>
>
> *From:* CnC-List  *On Behalf Of *Edd
> Schillay via CnC-List
> *Sent:* Thursday, March 05, 2020 5:13 PM
> *To:* Edd Schillay via CnC-List 
> *Cc:* Edd Schillay 
> *Subject:* Stus-List Racing Marks Question -- Not C&C Related
>
>
>
> Listers,
>
>
>
> As you all know, this past summer, I relocated my home, office and the
> Enterprise from City Island to the Suncoast of Florida — and I’m getting
> involved in the race management over here, which has been terribly lazy.
>
>
>
> One of the big issues we face is lack of resources. Marks are dropped in
> the water a day or two in advance of a regatta and then are either cut
> loose, vandalized or have broken free by the time a race is actually run.
> And there is no chase boat usually available to either drop a new mark or
> put up an M flag to act as one.
>
>
>
> Someone brought up the idea of a virtual mark in case a mark is missing,
> which is a new concept to me. I was thinking of language in the SIs that
> say something along the lines of “If a mark is missing or has moved more
> than 300 feet from its stated latitude/longitude position, and the race
> committee is unable to replace it, then the mark shall be the stated
> latitude/longitude position.”
>
>
>
> Basically, the thought is, especially since this happens now and again,
> not to have to cancel a regatta because a mark has disappeared.
>
>
>
> Has anyone ever used “virtual marks”? Does anyone object to the practice?
> If so, why?
>
>
>
> Appreciate anyone’s input. Even Risch’s.
>
>
> All the best,
>
>
>
> Edd
>
>
>
>
>
> Edd M. Schillay
>
> Captain of the Starship Enterprise
>
> C&C 37+ | Sail No: NCC-1701-B
>
> Venice Yacht Club | Venice Island, FL
>
>
>
> Starship Enterprise's Captain's Log
> <https://protect2.fireeye.com/v1/url?k=8b8d4e0f-d71b06af-8b8d6778-0cc47adca788-2339de501a1a3902&q=1&e=2b84bce6-00f4-439c-a29c-a36df77fc2c1&u=http%3A%2F%2Fenterpriseb.blogspot.com%2F>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
> ___
>
> Thanks everyone for supporting this list with your contributions.  Each
> and every one is greatly appreciated.  If you want to support the list -
> use PayPal to send contribution --   https://www.paypal.me/stumurray
>
> --
Sent from Gmail Mobile
___

Thanks everyone for supporting this list with your contributions.  Each and 
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Re: Stus-List Racing Marks Question -- Not C&C Related

[CHARLES SCHEAFFER via CnC-List]

I agree too.  

> On March 6, 2020 at 11:58 AM dwight veinot via CnC-List 
>  wrote:
> 
> Same here agree with Joe 
> 
> On Fri, Mar 6, 2020 at 11:14 AM Matt Wolford via CnC-List < 
> cnc-list@cnc-list.com mailto:cnc-list@cnc-list.com > wrote:
> 
> > > 
> > As usual, I agree with Joe.
> > 
> >  
> > 
> > From: CnC-List  > mailto:cnc-list-boun...@cnc-list.com > On Behalf Of Della Barba, Joe via 
> > CnC-List
> > Sent: Friday, March 06, 2020 9:41 AM
> > To: cnc-list@cnc-list.com mailto:cnc-list@cnc-list.com
> >     Cc: Della Barba, Joe  > mailto:joe.della.ba...@ssa.gov >
> > Subject: Re: Stus-List Racing Marks Question -- Not C&C Related
> > 
> >  
> > 
> > IMHO this is a bad idea.
> > 
> > The whole idea of how mark roundings happen in racing cannot work 
> > if the notional idea of where the mark is differs by even 5 or 10 feet from 
> > boat to boat. I would either use government marks or you all cough up 
> > enough cash to get an old Whaler and teenager to run around moving marks.
> > 
> > Joe
> > 
> > Coquina
> > 
> >  
> > 
> >  
> > 
> > From: CnC-List  > mailto:cnc-list-boun...@cnc-list.com > On Behalf Of Matt Wolford via 
> > CnC-List
> >     Sent: Friday, March 6, 2020 9:17 AM
> > To: cnc-list@cnc-list.com mailto:cnc-list@cnc-list.com
> > Cc: wolf...@erie.net mailto:wolf...@erie.net
> > Subject: [EXTERNAL] Re: Stus-List Racing Marks Question -- Not C&C 
> > Related
> > 
> >  
> > 
> > I recall being in a race a number of years ago in which the mark 
> > was missing.  The owner of the lead boat claimed the boat did a 
> > “navigational rounding” – which it may have done – but everyone was so 
> > skeptical that the race was abandoned.
> > 
> >  
> > 
> > As long as you have a fleet of Corinthian sailors and everyone 
> > agrees ahead of time, I suppose you can do whatever the fleet decides.  
> > That said, don’t be surprised if you get some disgruntlement in practice.
> > 
> >  
> > 
> > From: CnC-List  > mailto:cnc-list-boun...@cnc-list.com > On Behalf Of Edd Schillay via 
> > CnC-List
> > Sent: Thursday, March 05, 2020 5:13 PM
> > To: Edd Schillay via CnC-List  > mailto:cnc-list@cnc-list.com >
> > Cc: Edd Schillay mailto:e...@schillay.com >
> > Subject: Stus-List Racing Marks Question -- Not C&C Related
> > 
> >  
> > 
> > Listers,
> > 
> >  
> > 
> > As you all know, this past summer, I relocated my home, office and 
> > the Enterprise from City Island to the Suncoast of Florida — and I’m 
> > getting involved in the race management over here, which has been terribly 
> > lazy. 
> > 
> >  
> > 
> > One of the big issues we face is lack of resources. Marks are 
> > dropped in the water a day or two in advance of a regatta and then are 
> > either cut loose, vandalized or have broken free by the time a race is 
> > actually run. And there is no chase boat usually available to either drop a 
> > new mark or put up an M flag to act as one. 
> > 
> >  
> > 
> > Someone brought up the idea of a virtual mark in case a mark is 
> > missing, which is a new concept to me. I was thinking of language in the 
> > SIs that say something along the lines of “If a mark is missing or has 
> > moved more than 300 feet from its stated latitude/longitude position, and 
> > the race committee is unable to replace it, then the mark shall be the 
> > stated latitude/longitude position.”
> > 
> >  
> > 
> > Basically, the thought is, especially since this happens now and 
> > again, not to have to cancel a regatta because a mark has disappeared. 
> > 
> >  
> > 
> > Has anyone ever used “virtual marks”? Does anyone object to the 
> > practice? If so, why? 
> > 
> >  
> > 
> > Appreciate anyone’s input. Even Risch’s. 
> > 
> > 
> > All the best,
> > 
> >  
> > 
> > Edd
> > 
> >  
> > 
> >  
> > 
> > Edd M. Schillay
> > 
> > Captain of the Starship Enterprise
&g

Re: Stus-List Racing Marks Question -- Not C&C Related

[Neil Andersen via CnC-List]

Using permanent marks makes sense and are typically in you chart plotter to 
make pre-programming easier.

Neil
1982 C&C 32, FoxFire
Rock Hall, MD

Neil Andersen
20691 Jamieson Rd
Rock Hall, MD 21661

From: CnC-List  on behalf of dwight veinot via 
CnC-List 
Sent: Friday, March 6, 2020 11:58:20 AM
To: cnc-list@cnc-list.com 
Cc: dwight veinot 
Subject: Re: Stus-List Racing Marks Question -- Not C&C Related

Same here agree with Joe

On Fri, Mar 6, 2020 at 11:14 AM Matt Wolford via CnC-List 
mailto:cnc-list@cnc-list.com>> wrote:

As usual, I agree with Joe.



From: CnC-List 
mailto:cnc-list-boun...@cnc-list.com>> On Behalf 
Of Della Barba, Joe via CnC-List
Sent: Friday, March 06, 2020 9:41 AM
To: cnc-list@cnc-list.com<mailto:cnc-list@cnc-list.com>
Cc: Della Barba, Joe mailto:joe.della.ba...@ssa.gov>>
Subject: Re: Stus-List Racing Marks Question -- Not C&C Related



IMHO this is a bad idea.

The whole idea of how mark roundings happen in racing cannot work if the 
notional idea of where the mark is differs by even 5 or 10 feet from boat to 
boat. I would either use government marks or you all cough up enough cash to 
get an old Whaler and teenager to run around moving marks.

Joe

Coquina





From: CnC-List 
mailto:cnc-list-boun...@cnc-list.com>> On Behalf 
Of Matt Wolford via CnC-List
Sent: Friday, March 6, 2020 9:17 AM
To: cnc-list@cnc-list.com<mailto:cnc-list@cnc-list.com>
Cc: wolf...@erie.net<mailto:wolf...@erie.net>
Subject: [EXTERNAL] Re: Stus-List Racing Marks Question -- Not C&C Related



I recall being in a race a number of years ago in which the mark was missing.  
The owner of the lead boat claimed the boat did a “navigational rounding” – 
which it may have done – but everyone was so skeptical that the race was 
abandoned.



As long as you have a fleet of Corinthian sailors and everyone agrees ahead of 
time, I suppose you can do whatever the fleet decides.  That said, don’t be 
surprised if you get some disgruntlement in practice.



From: CnC-List 
mailto:cnc-list-boun...@cnc-list.com>> On Behalf 
Of Edd Schillay via CnC-List
Sent: Thursday, March 05, 2020 5:13 PM
To: Edd Schillay via CnC-List 
mailto:cnc-list@cnc-list.com>>
Cc: Edd Schillay mailto:e...@schillay.com>>
Subject: Stus-List Racing Marks Question -- Not C&C Related



Listers,



As you all know, this past summer, I relocated my home, office and the 
Enterprise from City Island to the Suncoast of Florida — and I’m getting 
involved in the race management over here, which has been terribly lazy.



One of the big issues we face is lack of resources. Marks are dropped in the 
water a day or two in advance of a regatta and then are either cut loose, 
vandalized or have broken free by the time a race is actually run. And there is 
no chase boat usually available to either drop a new mark or put up an M flag 
to act as one.



Someone brought up the idea of a virtual mark in case a mark is missing, which 
is a new concept to me. I was thinking of language in the SIs that say 
something along the lines of “If a mark is missing or has moved more than 300 
feet from its stated latitude/longitude position, and the race committee is 
unable to replace it, then the mark shall be the stated latitude/longitude 
position.”



Basically, the thought is, especially since this happens now and again, not to 
have to cancel a regatta because a mark has disappeared.



Has anyone ever used “virtual marks”? Does anyone object to the practice? If 
so, why?



Appreciate anyone’s input. Even Risch’s.

All the best,



Edd





Edd M. Schillay

Captain of the Starship Enterprise

C&C 37+ | Sail No: NCC-1701-B

Venice Yacht Club | Venice Island, FL



Starship Enterprise's Captain's 
Log<https://protect2.fireeye.com/v1/url?k=8b8d4e0f-d71b06af-8b8d6778-0cc47adca788-2339de501a1a3902&q=1&e=2b84bce6-00f4-439c-a29c-a36df77fc2c1&u=http%3A%2F%2Fenterpriseb.blogspot.com%2F>















___

Thanks everyone for supporting this list with your contributions.  Each and 
every one is greatly appreciated.  If you want to support the list - use PayPal 
to send contribution --   https://www.paypal.me/stumurray

--
Sent from Gmail Mobile
___

Thanks everyone for supporting this list with your contributions.  Each and 
every one is greatly appreciated.  If you want to support the list - use PayPal 
to send contribution --   https://www.paypal.me/stumurray

Re: Stus-List Racing Marks Question -- Not C&C Related

[Joel Aronson via CnC-List]

Last year for Hospice Cup the RC used a government mark.  We did not need
to cross the channel, just round the mark off Annapolis. The fleet arrived
about the same time as a freighter (on the other side of the channel).  The
pilot hailed the RC and made her displeasure known.  Can't please everyone.

Joel

On Fri, Mar 6, 2020 at 1:07 PM Neil Andersen via CnC-List <
cnc-list@cnc-list.com> wrote:

> Using permanent marks makes sense and are typically in you chart plotter
> to make pre-programming easier.
>
> Neil
> 1982 C&C 32, FoxFire
> Rock Hall, MD
>
> Neil Andersen
> 20691 Jamieson Rd
> Rock Hall, MD 21661
> --
> *From:* CnC-List  on behalf of dwight
> veinot via CnC-List 
> *Sent:* Friday, March 6, 2020 11:58:20 AM
> *To:* cnc-list@cnc-list.com 
> *Cc:* dwight veinot 
> *Subject:* Re: Stus-List Racing Marks Question -- Not C&C Related
>
> Same here agree with Joe
>
> On Fri, Mar 6, 2020 at 11:14 AM Matt Wolford via CnC-List <
> cnc-list@cnc-list.com> wrote:
>
> As usual, I agree with Joe.
>
>
>
> *From:* CnC-List  *On Behalf Of *Della
> Barba, Joe via CnC-List
> *Sent:* Friday, March 06, 2020 9:41 AM
> *To:* cnc-list@cnc-list.com
> *Cc:* Della Barba, Joe 
> *Subject:* Re: Stus-List Racing Marks Question -- Not C&C Related
>
>
>
> IMHO this is a bad idea.
>
> The whole idea of how mark roundings happen in racing cannot work if the
> notional idea of where the mark is differs by even 5 or 10 feet from boat
> to boat. I would either use government marks or you all cough up enough
> cash to get an old Whaler and teenager to run around moving marks.
>
> Joe
>
> Coquina
>
>
>
>
>
> *From:* CnC-List  *On Behalf Of *Matt
> Wolford via CnC-List
> *Sent:* Friday, March 6, 2020 9:17 AM
> *To:* cnc-list@cnc-list.com
> *Cc:* wolf...@erie.net
> *Subject:* [EXTERNAL] Re: Stus-List Racing Marks Question -- Not C&C
> Related
>
>
>
> I recall being in a race a number of years ago in which the mark was
> missing.  The owner of the lead boat claimed the boat did a “navigational
> rounding” – which it may have done – but everyone was so skeptical that the
> race was abandoned.
>
>
>
> As long as you have a fleet of Corinthian sailors and everyone agrees
> ahead of time, I suppose you can do whatever the fleet decides.  That said,
> don’t be surprised if you get some disgruntlement in practice.
>
>
>
> *From:* CnC-List  *On Behalf Of *Edd
> Schillay via CnC-List
> *Sent:* Thursday, March 05, 2020 5:13 PM
> *To:* Edd Schillay via CnC-List 
> *Cc:* Edd Schillay 
> *Subject:* Stus-List Racing Marks Question -- Not C&C Related
>
>
>
> Listers,
>
>
>
> As you all know, this past summer, I relocated my home, office and the
> Enterprise from City Island to the Suncoast of Florida — and I’m getting
> involved in the race management over here, which has been terribly lazy.
>
>
>
> One of the big issues we face is lack of resources. Marks are dropped in
> the water a day or two in advance of a regatta and then are either cut
> loose, vandalized or have broken free by the time a race is actually run.
> And there is no chase boat usually available to either drop a new mark or
> put up an M flag to act as one.
>
>
>
> Someone brought up the idea of a virtual mark in case a mark is missing,
> which is a new concept to me. I was thinking of language in the SIs that
> say something along the lines of “If a mark is missing or has moved more
> than 300 feet from its stated latitude/longitude position, and the race
> committee is unable to replace it, then the mark shall be the stated
> latitude/longitude position.”
>
>
>
> Basically, the thought is, especially since this happens now and again,
> not to have to cancel a regatta because a mark has disappeared.
>
>
>
> Has anyone ever used “virtual marks”? Does anyone object to the practice?
> If so, why?
>
>
>
> Appreciate anyone’s input. Even Risch’s.
>
>
> All the best,
>
>
>
> Edd
>
>
>
>
>
> Edd M. Schillay
>
> Captain of the Starship Enterprise
>
> C&C 37+ | Sail No: NCC-1701-B
>
> Venice Yacht Club | Venice Island, FL
>
>
>
> Starship Enterprise's Captain's Log
> <https://protect2.fireeye.com/v1/url?k=8b8d4e0f-d71b06af-8b8d6778-0cc47adca788-2339de501a1a3902&q=1&e=2b84bce6-00f4-439c-a29c-a36df77fc2c1&u=http%3A%2F%2Fenterpriseb.blogspot.com%2F>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
> ___
>
> Thanks everyone for supporting this list with your contributions.  Each
> 

Re: Stus-List Racing Marks Question -- Not C&C Related

[Della Barba, Joe via CnC-List]

Why did she care? Did she think you were all going to keep going?


Joe Della Barba
Behalf Of Joel Aronson via CnC-List
Sent: Friday, March 6, 2020 1:10 PM
To: cnc-list 
Cc: Joel Aronson 
Subject: [EXTERNAL] Re: Stus-List Racing Marks Question -- Not C&C Related

Last year for Hospice Cup the RC used a government mark.  We did not need to 
cross the channel, just round the mark off Annapolis. The fleet arrived about 
the same time as a freighter (on the other side of the channel).  The pilot 
hailed the RC and made her displeasure known.  Can't please everyone.

Joel

On Fri, Mar 6, 2020 at 1:07 PM Neil Andersen via CnC-List 
mailto:cnc-list@cnc-list.com>> wrote:
Using permanent marks makes sense and are typically in you chart plotter to 
make pre-programming easier.

Neil
1982 C&C 32, FoxFire
Rock Hall, MD

Neil Andersen
20691 Jamieson Rd
Rock Hall, MD 21661

From: CnC-List 
mailto:cnc-list-boun...@cnc-list.com>> on behalf 
of dwight veinot via CnC-List 
mailto:cnc-list@cnc-list.com>>
Sent: Friday, March 6, 2020 11:58:20 AM
To: cnc-list@cnc-list.com<mailto:cnc-list@cnc-list.com> 
mailto:cnc-list@cnc-list.com>>
Cc: dwight veinot mailto:dwight...@gmail.com>>
Subject: Re: Stus-List Racing Marks Question -- Not C&C Related

Same here agree with Joe

On Fri, Mar 6, 2020 at 11:14 AM Matt Wolford via CnC-List 
mailto:cnc-list@cnc-list.com>> wrote:

As usual, I agree with Joe.



From: CnC-List 
mailto:cnc-list-boun...@cnc-list.com>> On Behalf 
Of Della Barba, Joe via CnC-List
Sent: Friday, March 06, 2020 9:41 AM
To: cnc-list@cnc-list.com<mailto:cnc-list@cnc-list.com>
Cc: Della Barba, Joe mailto:joe.della.ba...@ssa.gov>>
Subject: Re: Stus-List Racing Marks Question -- Not C&C Related



IMHO this is a bad idea.

The whole idea of how mark roundings happen in racing cannot work if the 
notional idea of where the mark is differs by even 5 or 10 feet from boat to 
boat. I would either use government marks or you all cough up enough cash to 
get an old Whaler and teenager to run around moving marks.

Joe

Coquina





From: CnC-List 
mailto:cnc-list-boun...@cnc-list.com>> On Behalf 
Of Matt Wolford via CnC-List
Sent: Friday, March 6, 2020 9:17 AM
To: cnc-list@cnc-list.com<mailto:cnc-list@cnc-list.com>
Cc: wolf...@erie.net<mailto:wolf...@erie.net>
Subject: [EXTERNAL] Re: Stus-List Racing Marks Question -- Not C&C Related



I recall being in a race a number of years ago in which the mark was missing.  
The owner of the lead boat claimed the boat did a “navigational rounding” – 
which it may have done – but everyone was so skeptical that the race was 
abandoned.



As long as you have a fleet of Corinthian sailors and everyone agrees ahead of 
time, I suppose you can do whatever the fleet decides.  That said, don’t be 
surprised if you get some disgruntlement in practice.



From: CnC-List 
mailto:cnc-list-boun...@cnc-list.com>> On Behalf 
Of Edd Schillay via CnC-List
Sent: Thursday, March 05, 2020 5:13 PM
To: Edd Schillay via CnC-List 
mailto:cnc-list@cnc-list.com>>
Cc: Edd Schillay mailto:e...@schillay.com>>
Subject: Stus-List Racing Marks Question -- Not C&C Related



Listers,



As you all know, this past summer, I relocated my home, office and the 
Enterprise from City Island to the Suncoast of Florida — and I’m getting 
involved in the race management over here, which has been terribly lazy.



One of the big issues we face is lack of resources. Marks are dropped in the 
water a day or two in advance of a regatta and then are either cut loose, 
vandalized or have broken free by the time a race is actually run. And there is 
no chase boat usually available to either drop a new mark or put up an M flag 
to act as one.



Someone brought up the idea of a virtual mark in case a mark is missing, which 
is a new concept to me. I was thinking of language in the SIs that say 
something along the lines of “If a mark is missing or has moved more than 300 
feet from its stated latitude/longitude position, and the race committee is 
unable to replace it, then the mark shall be the stated latitude/longitude 
position.”



Basically, the thought is, especially since this happens now and again, not to 
have to cancel a regatta because a mark has disappeared.



Has anyone ever used “virtual marks”? Does anyone object to the practice? If 
so, why?



Appreciate anyone’s input. Even Risch’s.

All the best,



Edd





Edd M. Schillay

Captain of the Starship Enterprise

C&C 37+ | Sail No: NCC-1701-B

Venice Yacht Club | Venice Island, FL



Starship Enterprise's Captain's 
Log<https://protect2.fireeye.com/v1/url?k=8b8d4e0f-d71b06af-8b8d6778-0cc47adca788-2339de501a1a3902&q=1&e=2b84bce6-00f4-439c-a29c-a36df77fc2c1&u=http%3A%2F%2Fenterpriseb.blogspot.com%2F>














___

Thanks everyone for s

Re: Stus-List Racing Marks Question -- Not C&C Related

[Joel Aronson via CnC-List]

Joe,

no clue!  She could see we were turning at the mark.  Wind was light, but
no one got near her side of the channel.  No need for 5 blasts ...

Joel

On Fri, Mar 6, 2020 at 1:38 PM Della Barba, Joe via CnC-List <
cnc-list@cnc-list.com> wrote:

> Why did she care? Did she think you were all going to keep going?
>
>
>
>
>
> *Joe Della Barba*
>
> *Behalf Of *Joel Aronson via CnC-List
> *Sent:* Friday, March 6, 2020 1:10 PM
> *To:* cnc-list 
> *Cc:* Joel Aronson 
> *Subject:* [EXTERNAL] Re: Stus-List Racing Marks Question -- Not C&C
> Related
>
>
>
> Last year for Hospice Cup the RC used a government mark.  We did not need
> to cross the channel, just round the mark off Annapolis. The fleet arrived
> about the same time as a freighter (on the other side of the channel).  The
> pilot hailed the RC and made her displeasure known.  Can't please everyone.
>
>
>
> Joel
>
>
>
> On Fri, Mar 6, 2020 at 1:07 PM Neil Andersen via CnC-List <
> cnc-list@cnc-list.com> wrote:
>
> Using permanent marks makes sense and are typically in you chart plotter
> to make pre-programming easier.
>
>
>
> Neil
>
> 1982 C&C 32, FoxFire
>
> Rock Hall, MD
>
>
>
> Neil Andersen
>
> 20691 Jamieson Rd
>
> Rock Hall, MD 21661
> --
>
> *From:* CnC-List  on behalf of dwight
> veinot via CnC-List 
> *Sent:* Friday, March 6, 2020 11:58:20 AM
> *To:* cnc-list@cnc-list.com 
> *Cc:* dwight veinot 
> *Subject:* Re: Stus-List Racing Marks Question -- Not C&C Related
>
>
>
> Same here agree with Joe
>
>
>
> On Fri, Mar 6, 2020 at 11:14 AM Matt Wolford via CnC-List <
> cnc-list@cnc-list.com> wrote:
>
> As usual, I agree with Joe.
>
>
>
> *From:* CnC-List  *On Behalf Of *Della
> Barba, Joe via CnC-List
> *Sent:* Friday, March 06, 2020 9:41 AM
> *To:* cnc-list@cnc-list.com
> *Cc:* Della Barba, Joe 
> *Subject:* Re: Stus-List Racing Marks Question -- Not C&C Related
>
>
>
> IMHO this is a bad idea.
>
> The whole idea of how mark roundings happen in racing cannot work if the
> notional idea of where the mark is differs by even 5 or 10 feet from boat
> to boat. I would either use government marks or you all cough up enough
> cash to get an old Whaler and teenager to run around moving marks.
>
> Joe
>
> Coquina
>
>
>
>
>
> *From:* CnC-List  *On Behalf Of *Matt
> Wolford via CnC-List
> *Sent:* Friday, March 6, 2020 9:17 AM
> *To:* cnc-list@cnc-list.com
> *Cc:* wolf...@erie.net
> *Subject:* [EXTERNAL] Re: Stus-List Racing Marks Question -- Not C&C
> Related
>
>
>
> I recall being in a race a number of years ago in which the mark was
> missing.  The owner of the lead boat claimed the boat did a “navigational
> rounding” – which it may have done – but everyone was so skeptical that the
> race was abandoned.
>
>
>
> As long as you have a fleet of Corinthian sailors and everyone agrees
> ahead of time, I suppose you can do whatever the fleet decides.  That said,
> don’t be surprised if you get some disgruntlement in practice.
>
>
>
> *From:* CnC-List  *On Behalf Of *Edd
> Schillay via CnC-List
> *Sent:* Thursday, March 05, 2020 5:13 PM
> *To:* Edd Schillay via CnC-List 
> *Cc:* Edd Schillay 
> *Subject:* Stus-List Racing Marks Question -- Not C&C Related
>
>
>
> Listers,
>
>
>
> As you all know, this past summer, I relocated my home, office and the
> Enterprise from City Island to the Suncoast of Florida — and I’m getting
> involved in the race management over here, which has been terribly lazy.
>
>
>
> One of the big issues we face is lack of resources. Marks are dropped in
> the water a day or two in advance of a regatta and then are either cut
> loose, vandalized or have broken free by the time a race is actually run.
> And there is no chase boat usually available to either drop a new mark or
> put up an M flag to act as one.
>
>
>
> Someone brought up the idea of a virtual mark in case a mark is missing,
> which is a new concept to me. I was thinking of language in the SIs that
> say something along the lines of “If a mark is missing or has moved more
> than 300 feet from its stated latitude/longitude position, and the race
> committee is unable to replace it, then the mark shall be the stated
> latitude/longitude position.”
>
>
>
> Basically, the thought is, especially since this happens now and again,
> not to have to cancel a regatta because a mark has disappeared.
>
>
>
> Has anyone ever used “virtual marks”? Does anyone object to the practice?
> If so, why?
>
>
>
> Appreciate anyone’s inpu

Re: Stus-List Racing Marks Question -- Not C&C Related

[Jim Reinardy via CnC-List]

Our club now has a permanent buoy that we use as a turning mark, but we used 
government marks or permanent marks placed by other yacht clubs (with their 
permission) for many years.  We race upwind/downwind courses so our volunteer 
committee boats (normally sailboats) drop an inflatable mark downwind of the 
turning mark for the other end of the start line on the night of the race with 
the boat as the other end.  No issues with vandalism or anchors holding and it 
is a reasonable task for a sailboat on the night of the race.  Just my 2 cents.
 
Jim Reinardy
C&C 30-2 "Firewater"
Milwaukee, WI
___

Thanks everyone for supporting this list with your contributions.  Each and 
every one is greatly appreciated.  If you want to support the list - use PayPal 
to send contribution --   https://www.paypal.me/stumurray

Re: Stus-List Racing Marks Question -- Not C&C Related

[Donald Kern via CnC-List]

Edd,
On Narragansett Bay almost all the clubs use Gov't marks augmented by 
RC/YC dropped marks for their courses.  If a mark starts drifting or the 
USCG pulls a gov't mark the race is normally abandoned. Narragansett bay 
East passage is defined by the USCG as a "Narrow Channel" and therefor 
deepdraft vessels have the right of way over sailboats.  Sooo... about 
once a year some boat attempts to cross the bow of a laden commercial 
deepdraft and gets 5 short blast and the RC gets a call from the pilot.  
(Duct tape does not fix stupid!!).  In fact next week the USCG is 
speaking to a group of the various race committees on an incident last 
year.  All organizing authorities are required to notify the USCG of 
their events which are published in Notice to Mariners.


Like others that have spoken, virtual marks would be problematic.

Don Kern
Fireball, C&C 35 Mk2
Bristol, RI


On 3/6/2020 1:06 PM, CHARLES SCHEAFFER via CnC-List wrote:

I agree too.
On March 6, 2020 at 11:58 AM dwight veinot via CnC-List 
 wrote:


Same here agree with Joe

On Fri, Mar 6, 2020 at 11:14 AM Matt Wolford via CnC-List < 
cnc-list@cnc-list.com <mailto:cnc-list@cnc-list.com>> wrote:


As usual, I agree with Joe.

*From:* CnC-List mailto:cnc-list-boun...@cnc-list.com>> *On Behalf Of *Della
Barba, Joe via CnC-List
*Sent:* Friday, March 06, 2020 9:41 AM
*To:* cnc-list@cnc-list.com <mailto:cnc-list@cnc-list.com>
*Cc:* Della Barba, Joe mailto:joe.della.ba...@ssa.gov>>
    *Subject:* Re: Stus-List Racing Marks Question -- Not C&C Related

IMHO this is a bad idea.

The whole idea of how mark roundings happen in racing cannot work
if the notional idea of where the mark is differs by even 5 or 10
feet from boat to boat. I would either use government marks or
you all cough up enough cash to get an old Whaler and teenager to
run around moving marks.

Joe

Coquina

*From:* CnC-List mailto:cnc-list-boun...@cnc-list.com>> *On Behalf Of *Matt
Wolford via CnC-List
*Sent:* Friday, March 6, 2020 9:17 AM
*To:* cnc-list@cnc-list.com <mailto:cnc-list@cnc-list.com>
*Cc:* wolf...@erie.net <mailto:wolf...@erie.net>
    *Subject:* [EXTERNAL] Re: Stus-List Racing Marks Question -- Not
C&C Related

I recall being in a race a number of years ago in which the mark
was missing.  The owner of the lead boat claimed the boat did a
“navigational rounding” – which it may have done – but everyone
was so skeptical that the race was abandoned.

As long as you have a fleet of Corinthian sailors and everyone
agrees ahead of time, I suppose you can do whatever the fleet
decides.  That said, don’t be surprised if you get some
disgruntlement in practice.

*From:* CnC-List mailto:cnc-list-boun...@cnc-list.com>> *On Behalf Of *Edd
Schillay via CnC-List
*Sent:* Thursday, March 05, 2020 5:13 PM
*To:* Edd Schillay via CnC-List mailto:cnc-list@cnc-list.com>>
*Cc:* Edd Schillay mailto:e...@schillay.com>>
*Subject:* Stus-List Racing Marks Question -- Not C&C Related

Listers,

As you all know, this past summer, I relocated my home, office
and the Enterprise from City Island to the Suncoast of Florida —
and I’m getting involved in the race management over here, which
has been terribly lazy.

One of the big issues we face is lack of resources. Marks are
dropped in the water a day or two in advance of a regatta and
then are either cut loose, vandalized or have broken free by the
time a race is actually run. And there is no chase boat usually
available to either drop a new mark or put up an M flag to act as
one.

Someone brought up the idea of a virtual mark in case a mark is
missing, which is a new concept to me. I was thinking of language
in the SIs that say something along the lines of “If a mark is
missing or has moved more than 300 feet from its stated
latitude/longitude position, and the race committee is unable to
replace it, then the mark shall be the stated latitude/longitude
position.”

Basically, the thought is, especially since this happens now and
again, not to have to cancel a regatta because a mark has
disappeared.

Has anyone ever used “virtual marks”? Does anyone object to the
practice? If so, why?

Appreciate anyone’s input. Even Risch’s.


All the best,

Edd

Edd M. Schillay

Captain of the Starship Enterprise

C&C 37+ | Sail No: NCC-1701-B

Venice Yacht Club | Venice Island, FL

Starship Enterprise's Captain's Log

<https://protect2.fireeye.com/v1/url?k=8b8d4e0f-d71b06af-8b8d6778-0cc47adca788-2339de501a1a3902&q=1&e=2b84bce6-00f4-439c-a29c-a36df77fc2c1&u=http%3A%2F%2Fenterpriseb.blogspot.com%2F>






___

Thanks ever

Re: Stus-List Racing Marks Question -- Not C&C Related

[dwight veinot via CnC-List]

I am not sure if I would be interested in sailboat racing around there. In
fact nowadays i am not sure i am interested in sailboat racing at all until
 i see a sail close by. Then the skills i learned in racing and the
adrenaline peaks much to the dismay of one crew, the Admiral some say, but
good sport she is and confident in me so we play and I gotta tell you that
C&C 35 we got is one slippery boat and such a comfortable racer/cruiser to
sail. Classic Plastic

On Fri, Mar 6, 2020 at 4:57 PM Donald Kern via CnC-List <
cnc-list@cnc-list.com> wrote:

> Edd,
> On Narragansett Bay almost all the clubs use Gov't marks augmented by
> RC/YC dropped marks for their courses.  If a mark starts drifting or the
> USCG pulls a gov't mark the race is normally abandoned.  Narragansett bay
> East passage is defined by the USCG as a "Narrow Channel" and therefor
> deepdraft vessels have the right of way over sailboats.  Sooo... about once
> a year some boat attempts to cross the bow of a laden commercial deepdraft
> and gets 5 short blast and the RC gets a call from the pilot.  (Duct tape
> does not fix stupid!!).  In fact next week the USCG is speaking to a group
> of the various race committees on an incident last year.  All organizing
> authorities are required to notify the USCG of their events which are
> published in Notice to Mariners.
>
> Like others that have spoken, virtual marks would be problematic.
>
> Don Kern
> Fireball, C&C 35 Mk2
> Bristol, RI
>
>
>
> On 3/6/2020 1:06 PM, CHARLES SCHEAFFER via CnC-List wrote:
>
> I agree too.
>
> On March 6, 2020 at 11:58 AM dwight veinot via CnC-List
>   wrote:
>
> Same here agree with Joe
>
> On Fri, Mar 6, 2020 at 11:14 AM Matt Wolford via CnC-List <
> cnc-list@cnc-list.com> wrote:
>
> As usual, I agree with Joe.
>
>
>
> *From:* CnC-List  *On Behalf Of *Della
> Barba, Joe via CnC-List
> *Sent:* Friday, March 06, 2020 9:41 AM
> *To:* cnc-list@cnc-list.com
> *Cc:* Della Barba, Joe 
> *Subject:* Re: Stus-List Racing Marks Question -- Not C&C Related
>
>
>
> IMHO this is a bad idea.
>
> The whole idea of how mark roundings happen in racing cannot work if the
> notional idea of where the mark is differs by even 5 or 10 feet from boat
> to boat. I would either use government marks or you all cough up enough
> cash to get an old Whaler and teenager to run around moving marks.
>
> Joe
>
> Coquina
>
>
>
>
>
> *From:* CnC-List  *On Behalf Of *Matt
> Wolford via CnC-List
> *Sent:* Friday, March 6, 2020 9:17 AM
> *To:* cnc-list@cnc-list.com
> *Cc:* wolf...@erie.net
> *Subject:* [EXTERNAL] Re: Stus-List Racing Marks Question -- Not C&C
> Related
>
>
>
> I recall being in a race a number of years ago in which the mark was
> missing.  The owner of the lead boat claimed the boat did a “navigational
> rounding” – which it may have done – but everyone was so skeptical that the
> race was abandoned.
>
>
>
> As long as you have a fleet of Corinthian sailors and everyone agrees
> ahead of time, I suppose you can do whatever the fleet decides.  That said,
> don’t be surprised if you get some disgruntlement in practice.
>
>
>
> *From:* CnC-List  *On Behalf Of *Edd
> Schillay via CnC-List
> *Sent:* Thursday, March 05, 2020 5:13 PM
> *To:* Edd Schillay via CnC-List 
> *Cc:* Edd Schillay 
> *Subject:* Stus-List Racing Marks Question -- Not C&C Related
>
>
>
> Listers,
>
>
>
> As you all know, this past summer, I relocated my home, office and the
> Enterprise from City Island to the Suncoast of Florida — and I’m getting
> involved in the race management over here, which has been terribly lazy.
>
>
>
> One of the big issues we face is lack of resources. Marks are dropped in
> the water a day or two in advance of a regatta and then are either cut
> loose, vandalized or have broken free by the time a race is actually run.
> And there is no chase boat usually available to either drop a new mark or
> put up an M flag to act as one.
>
>
>
> Someone brought up the idea of a virtual mark in case a mark is missing,
> which is a new concept to me. I was thinking of language in the SIs that
> say something along the lines of “If a mark is missing or has moved more
> than 300 feet from its stated latitude/longitude position, and the race
> committee is unable to replace it, then the mark shall be the stated
> latitude/longitude position.”
>
>
>
> Basically, the thought is, especially since this happens now and again,
> not to have to cancel a regatta because a mark has disappeared.
>
>
>
> Has anyone ever used “virtual marks”? Does anyone object to the practice?
> 

Re: Stus-List Racing Marks Question -- Not C&C Related

[Shawn Wright via CnC-List]

Our club uses about a dozen permanent marks, and most of them are either CG
or Navy marks or buoys; each is assigned a letter for making the course
easy to note on a board. When a dropped mark is used, it is denoted "X" and
a bearing from the start is stated; this is generally only for weekly RTB
races. Distance race always use permanent marks, and sometimes are just
"round the island(s)". The start line often uses the CG buoy off the
lighthouse at the harbour entrance as one end, and the RC boat as the
other, which makes courses easy to set up, and allows for a split
inshore/offshore course depending on division, or a quick switch to either
inshore or offshore if there is a sudden wind change, common in the winter.
We had three races in a row where wind was <5 at the start, and 35+ less
than an hour later...
--
Shawn Wright
shawngwri...@gmail.com
S/V Callisto, 1974 C&C 35
https://www.facebook.com/SVCallisto


On Fri, Mar 6, 2020 at 2:17 PM dwight veinot via CnC-List <
cnc-list@cnc-list.com> wrote:

> I am not sure if I would be interested in sailboat racing around there. In
> fact nowadays i am not sure i am interested in sailboat racing at all until
>  i see a sail close by. Then the skills i learned in racing and the
> adrenaline peaks much to the dismay of one crew, the Admiral some say, but
> good sport she is and confident in me so we play and I gotta tell you that
> C&C 35 we got is one slippery boat and such a comfortable racer/cruiser to
> sail. Classic Plastic
>
> On Fri, Mar 6, 2020 at 4:57 PM Donald Kern via CnC-List <
> cnc-list@cnc-list.com> wrote:
>
>> Edd,
>> On Narragansett Bay almost all the clubs use Gov't marks augmented by
>> RC/YC dropped marks for their courses.  If a mark starts drifting or the
>> USCG pulls a gov't mark the race is normally abandoned.  Narragansett bay
>> East passage is defined by the USCG as a "Narrow Channel" and therefor
>> deepdraft vessels have the right of way over sailboats.  Sooo... about once
>> a year some boat attempts to cross the bow of a laden commercial deepdraft
>> and gets 5 short blast and the RC gets a call from the pilot.  (Duct tape
>> does not fix stupid!!).  In fact next week the USCG is speaking to a group
>> of the various race committees on an incident last year.  All organizing
>> authorities are required to notify the USCG of their events which are
>> published in Notice to Mariners.
>>
>> Like others that have spoken, virtual marks would be problematic.
>>
>> Don Kern
>> Fireball, C&C 35 Mk2
>> Bristol, RI
>>
>>
>>
>> On 3/6/2020 1:06 PM, CHARLES SCHEAFFER via CnC-List wrote:
>>
>> I agree too.
>>
>> On March 6, 2020 at 11:58 AM dwight veinot via CnC-List
>>   wrote:
>>
>> Same here agree with Joe
>>
>> On Fri, Mar 6, 2020 at 11:14 AM Matt Wolford via CnC-List <
>> cnc-list@cnc-list.com> wrote:
>>
>> As usual, I agree with Joe.
>>
>>
>>
>> *From:* CnC-List  *On Behalf Of *Della
>> Barba, Joe via CnC-List
>> *Sent:* Friday, March 06, 2020 9:41 AM
>> *To:* cnc-list@cnc-list.com
>> *Cc:* Della Barba, Joe 
>> *Subject:* Re: Stus-List Racing Marks Question -- Not C&C Related
>>
>>
>>
>> IMHO this is a bad idea.
>>
>> The whole idea of how mark roundings happen in racing cannot work if the
>> notional idea of where the mark is differs by even 5 or 10 feet from boat
>> to boat. I would either use government marks or you all cough up enough
>> cash to get an old Whaler and teenager to run around moving marks.
>>
>> Joe
>>
>> Coquina
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> *From:* CnC-List  *On Behalf Of *Matt
>> Wolford via CnC-List
>> *Sent:* Friday, March 6, 2020 9:17 AM
>> *To:* cnc-list@cnc-list.com
>> *Cc:* wolf...@erie.net
>> *Subject:* [EXTERNAL] Re: Stus-List Racing Marks Question -- Not C&C
>> Related
>>
>>
>>
>> I recall being in a race a number of years ago in which the mark was
>> missing.  The owner of the lead boat claimed the boat did a “navigational
>> rounding” – which it may have done – but everyone was so skeptical that the
>> race was abandoned.
>>
>>
>>
>> As long as you have a fleet of Corinthian sailors and everyone agrees
>> ahead of time, I suppose you can do whatever the fleet decides.  That said,
>> don’t be surprised if you get some disgruntlement in practice.
>>
>>
>>
>> *From:* CnC-List  *On Behalf Of *Edd
>> Schillay via CnC-List
>> *Sent:* Thursday, March 05, 2020 5:13 PM
>> *To:* Edd Schillay via CnC-L