Re: Stus-List Winterizing an Atomic 4

[RANDY via CnC-List]

Here are links to A4 winterizing threads on the Moyer Marine forums; I read and 
bookmarked them last night: 
* http://www.moyermarine.com/forums/showthread.php?t=525 
* http://www.moyermarine.com/forums/showthread.php?t=6886 

Cheers, 
Randy 

- Original Message -

From: "Ken via CnC-List"  
To: "cnc-list" , "Neil Gallagher via CnC-List" 
 
Cc: kwalt...@speakeasy.net 
Sent: Tuesday, October 11, 2016 3:24:10 PM 
Subject: Re: Stus-List Winterizing an Atomic 4 



I have the Moyer FWC cooling system on my A4 which needs no winterization (as 
it and the block are filled with automotive type antifreeze). To winterize the 
seawater side of the FWC, seawater pump and wet exhaust I pull a hose off the 
seawater strainer, put it in a bucket of the pink stuff (non toxic RV/marine 
engine anti-freeze) and run about 3 gallons through until pink starts coming 
out the exhaust pipe. Prestone protects the freshwater side, pink stuff the 
seawater side. I also squirt some MMO in the combustion chambers through the 
spark plug holes to keep the rings/valves free during the winter and to 
dissolve any build up on them from the season. The Moyer site has a couple of 
write ups on winterizing in the forums area. 

Ken 



On Tue, 11 Oct 2016 16:41:30 -0400, Neil Gallagher via CnC-List 
 wrote: 


When I first put fresh water cooling on my A4, I did drain the block and pump 
every year, but then it occurred to me that I was leaving the interior of the 
engine filled with air and moisture, not the best combination. Taking the side 
plate off in my case would be difficult. I now make sure my coolant has 
antifreeze (the automotive type) that protects down to minus whatever, and 
leave the block full. My thinking is that the coolant has a corrosion inhibitor 
in it, probably better for the engine. Am I missing something? 

Neil Gallagher 
Weatherly, 35-1 
Glen Cove 


On 10/11/2016 1:16 PM, Dennis C. via CnC-List wrote: 



When I bought Touche' in 1999, it had an AT4. It had the drain plug extension. 
When I finally got it started, the drain plug extension leaked. As I recall, it 
was corroded at the threads at the cap. When I went to replace it, it fell 
apart. I think it's just a 1/8 or 1/4 pipe nipple. Just something to check and 
be aware of. 

Dennis C. 

On Tue, Oct 11, 2016 at 11:50 AM, Michael Brown via CnC-List < 
cnc-list@cnc-list.com > wrote: 



I have the extension pipe installed between the distributor and the 
alternator belt. There is just a cap on the end that I remove to drain 
the block. It is easy. The two drain plugs on the block are simple to get 
to. The drain plug on the bottom of the water pump is a bit fiddly to 
start back in, mainly just an issue getting into the lazerette enough 
to reach it. I doubt it is a 5 minute job to do all four. 

Is it common to just drain the engine ( block ) and not fill it with 
antifreeze? 

Michael Brown 
Windburn 
C&C 30-1 


From: "phorvati ." < phorv...@gmail.com > 

U have to drain the block. Side inspection plate will leak if you dont 
drain it. Its fragile as it is. It doesnt take too much freezing to 
develop leaks. Block drain plug is under distributor, just aft of side 
inspection plate. It's pita. Moyer sells extention to make this easy. 



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Re: Stus-List Winterizing an Atomic 4

[Dennis C. via CnC-List]

I agree draining may not be the best option.  Touche's raw water cooled AT4
had been idle for years (at least 8-10 to my knowledge).

When I pulled the side plates to clean the water chamber area around the
cylinders, I discovered the sealing surface of the block around the side
plates had thinned due to corrosion.  The thinning was from the inside.  My
guess is the block was only partially filled which allowed oxygen to be
present inside the water chamber area.  I had to upsize a few of the side
plate bolts.  Eventually, the thinning caused leakage around the side
plates.  It got bad enough I repowered with a diesel.

Keeping the cooling chamber full may prevent oxygen from causing corrosion.

Dennis C.

On Tue, Oct 11, 2016 at 3:41 PM, Neil Gallagher via CnC-List <
cnc-list@cnc-list.com> wrote:

> When I first put fresh water cooling on my A4, I did drain the block and
> pump every year, but then it occurred to me that I was leaving the interior
> of the engine filled with air and moisture, not the best combination.
> Taking the side plate off in my case would be difficult.  I now make sure
> my coolant has antifreeze (the automotive type) that protects down to minus
> whatever, and leave the block full.  My thinking is that the coolant has a
> corrosion inhibitor in it, probably better for the engine.  Am I missing
> something?
>
> Neil Gallagher
> Weatherly, 35-1
> Glen Cove
>
>
> On 10/11/2016 1:16 PM, Dennis C. via CnC-List wrote:
>
> When I bought Touche' in 1999, it had an AT4.  It had the drain plug
> extension.  When I finally got it started, the drain plug extension
> leaked.  As I recall, it was corroded at the threads at the cap.  When I
> went to replace it, it fell apart.  I think it's just a 1/8 or 1/4 pipe
> nipple.  Just something to check and be aware of.
>
> Dennis C.
>
> On Tue, Oct 11, 2016 at 11:50 AM, Michael Brown via CnC-List <
> cnc-list@cnc-list.com> wrote:
>
>>  I have the extension pipe installed between the distributor and the
>> alternator belt. There is just a cap on the end that I remove to drain
>> the block. It is easy. The two drain plugs on the block are simple to get
>> to. The drain plug on the bottom of the water pump is a bit fiddly to
>> start back in, mainly just an issue getting into the lazerette enough
>> to reach it. I doubt it is a 5 minute job to do all four.
>>
>> Is it common to just drain the engine ( block ) and not fill it with
>> antifreeze?
>>
>> Michael Brown
>> Windburn
>> C&C 30-1
>>
>> From: "phorvati ." 
>>
>> U have to drain the block.  Side inspection plate will leak if you dont
>> drain it.  Its fragile as it is.  It doesnt take too much freezing to
>> develop leaks.  Block drain plug is under distributor, just aft of side
>> inspection plate.  It's pita. Moyer sells extention to make this easy.
>>
>>
>> ___
>>
>> This list is supported by the generous donations of our members. If you
>> like what we do, please help us pay for our costs by donating. All
>> Contributions are greatly appreciated!
>>
>>
>
>
> ___
>
> This list is supported by the generous donations of our members. If you like 
> what we do, please help us pay for our costs by donating. All Contributions 
> are greatly appreciated!
>
>
>
> ___
>
> This list is supported by the generous donations of our members. If you
> like what we do, please help us pay for our costs by donating. All
> Contributions are greatly appreciated!
>
>
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what we do, please help us pay for our costs by donating. All Contributions are 
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Re: Stus-List Winterizing an Atomic 4

[Ken via CnC-List]

I have the Moyer FWC cooling system on my A4 which needs no
winterization (as it and the block are filled with automotive type
antifreeze). To winterize the seawater side of the FWC, seawater pump
and wet exhaust  I pull a hose off the seawater strainer, put it in a
bucket of the pink stuff (non toxic RV/marine engine anti-freeze) and
run about 3 gallons through until pink starts coming out the exhaust
pipe. Prestone protects the freshwater side, pink stuff the seawater
side. I also squirt  some MMO in the combustion chambers through the
spark plug holes to keep the rings/valves free during the winter and
to dissolve any build up on them from the season. The Moyer site has
a couple of write ups on winterizing in the forums area.
Ken

On Tue, 11 Oct 2016 16:41:30 -0400, Neil Gallagher via CnC-List  wrote:

   When I first put fresh water cooling on my A4, I did drain the
block and pump every year, but then it occurred to me that I was
leaving the interior of the engine filled with air and moisture, not
the best combination.  Taking the side plate off in my case would be
difficult.  I now make sure my coolant has antifreeze (the automotive
type) that protects down to minus whatever, and leave the block full. 
My thinking is that the coolant has a corrosion inhibitor in it,
probably better for the engine.  Am I missing something?

Neil Gallagher
Weatherly, 35-1
Glen Cove

 
On 10/11/2016 1:16 PM, Dennis C. via CnC-List wrote:

  When I bought Touche' in 1999, it had an AT4.  It had the drain
plug extension.  When I finally got it started, the drain plug
extension leaked.  As I recall, it was corroded at the threads at the
cap.  When I went to replace it, it fell apart.  I think it's just a
1/8 or 1/4 pipe nipple.  Just something to check and be aware of.

Dennis C.
On Tue, Oct 11, 2016 at 11:50 AM, Michael Brown via CnC-List  wrote:

   I have the extension pipe installed between the distributor and the
alternator belt. There is just a cap on the end that I remove to drain
the block. It is easy. The two drain plugs on the block are simple to get
to. The drain plug on the bottom of the water pump is a bit fiddly to
start back in, mainly just an issue getting into the lazerette enough
to reach it. I doubt it is a 5 minute job to do all four.

Is it common to just drain the engine ( block ) and not fill it with
antifreeze?

Michael Brown
Windburn
C&C 30-1

  From: "phorvati ."

U have to drain the block.  Side inspection plate will leak if you dont
drain it.  Its fragile as it is.  It doesnt take too much freezing to
develop leaks.  Block drain plug is under distributor, just aft of side
inspection plate.  It's pita. Moyer sells extention to make this easy.

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Contributions are greatly appreciated!

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-

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Contributions are greatly appreciated!


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Re: Stus-List Winterizing an Atomic 4

[Neil Gallagher via CnC-List]

When I first put fresh water cooling on my A4, I did drain the block and 
pump every year, but then it occurred to me that I was leaving the 
interior of the engine filled with air and moisture, not the best 
combination.  Taking the side plate off in my case would be difficult.  
I now make sure my coolant has antifreeze (the automotive type) that 
protects down to minus whatever, and leave the block full.  My thinking 
is that the coolant has a corrosion inhibitor in it, probably better for 
the engine.  Am I missing something?


Neil Gallagher
Weatherly, 35-1
Glen Cove


On 10/11/2016 1:16 PM, Dennis C. via CnC-List wrote:
When I bought Touche' in 1999, it had an AT4.  It had the drain plug 
extension.  When I finally got it started, the drain plug extension 
leaked.  As I recall, it was corroded at the threads at the cap.  When 
I went to replace it, it fell apart.  I think it's just a 1/8 or 1/4 
pipe nipple.  Just something to check and be aware of.


Dennis C.

On Tue, Oct 11, 2016 at 11:50 AM, Michael Brown via CnC-List 
mailto:cnc-list@cnc-list.com>> wrote:


 I have the extension pipe installed between the distributor and the
alternator belt. There is just a cap on the end that I remove to drain
the block. It is easy. The two drain plugs on the block are simple
to get
to. The drain plug on the bottom of the water pump is a bit fiddly to
start back in, mainly just an issue getting into the lazerette enough
to reach it. I doubt it is a 5 minute job to do all four.

Is it common to just drain the engine ( block ) and not fill it
with antifreeze?

Michael Brown
Windburn
C&C 30-1

From: "phorvati ." mailto:phorv...@gmail.com>>

U have to drain the block.  Side inspection plate will leak if
you dont
drain it.  Its fragile as it is.  It doesnt take too much
freezing to
develop leaks.  Block drain plug is under distributor, just
aft of side
inspection plate.  It's pita. Moyer sells extention to make
this easy.


___

This list is supported by the generous donations of our members.
If you like what we do, please help us pay for our costs by
donating. All Contributions are greatly appreciated!




___

This list is supported by the generous donations of our members. If you like 
what we do, please help us pay for our costs by donating. All Contributions are 
greatly appreciated!


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This list is supported by the generous donations of our members. If you like 
what we do, please help us pay for our costs by donating. All Contributions are 
greatly appreciated!

Re: Stus-List Winterizing an Atomic 4

[Dennis C. via CnC-List]

When I bought Touche' in 1999, it had an AT4.  It had the drain plug
extension.  When I finally got it started, the drain plug extension
leaked.  As I recall, it was corroded at the threads at the cap.  When I
went to replace it, it fell apart.  I think it's just a 1/8 or 1/4 pipe
nipple.  Just something to check and be aware of.

Dennis C.

On Tue, Oct 11, 2016 at 11:50 AM, Michael Brown via CnC-List <
cnc-list@cnc-list.com> wrote:

>  I have the extension pipe installed between the distributor and the
> alternator belt. There is just a cap on the end that I remove to drain
> the block. It is easy. The two drain plugs on the block are simple to get
> to. The drain plug on the bottom of the water pump is a bit fiddly to
> start back in, mainly just an issue getting into the lazerette enough
> to reach it. I doubt it is a 5 minute job to do all four.
>
> Is it common to just drain the engine ( block ) and not fill it with
> antifreeze?
>
> Michael Brown
> Windburn
> C&C 30-1
>
> From: "phorvati ." 
>
> U have to drain the block.  Side inspection plate will leak if you dont
> drain it.  Its fragile as it is.  It doesnt take too much freezing to
> develop leaks.  Block drain plug is under distributor, just aft of side
> inspection plate.  It's pita. Moyer sells extention to make this easy.
>
>
> ___
>
> This list is supported by the generous donations of our members. If you
> like what we do, please help us pay for our costs by donating. All
> Contributions are greatly appreciated!
>
>
___

This list is supported by the generous donations of our members. If you like 
what we do, please help us pay for our costs by donating. All Contributions are 
greatly appreciated!

Re: Stus-List Winterizing an Atomic 4

[Michael Brown via CnC-List]

 I have the extension pipe installed between the distributor and the
alternator belt. There is just a cap on the end that I remove to drain
the block. It is easy. The two drain plugs on the block are simple to get
to. The drain plug on the bottom of the water pump is a bit fiddly to
start back in, mainly just an issue getting into the lazerette enough
to reach it. I doubt it is a 5 minute job to do all four.

Is it common to just drain the engine ( block ) and not fill it with antifreeze?

Michael Brown
Windburn
C&C 30-1 

From: "phorvati ."  

U have to drain the block.  Side inspection plate will leak if you dont 
drain it.  Its fragile as it is.  It doesnt take too much freezing to 
develop leaks.  Block drain plug is under distributor, just aft of side 
inspection plate.  It's pita. Moyer sells extention to make this easy. 
___

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what we do, please help us pay for our costs by donating. All Contributions are 
greatly appreciated!

Re: Stus-List Winterizing an Atomic 4

[Josh Muckley via CnC-List]

Basically anyway you would get the glycol IN you can jerry rig a way to
attach a shop vac.  Or just use the sea-flush.  I blow out my tap water
lines and A/C lines too.  And my shower pump/deck wash pump.  I've also
rigged up some fittings for my through hulls so that I can easily attach
short section of hose/tygon with a garden hose fitting.  See the picture, I
can suck glycol, attach a shop-vac, flush with fresh water, or ram rod the
through hull if it gets clogged.

http://www.seaflush.com/sea-flush-1/

Josh Muckley
S/V Sea Hawk
1989 C&C 37+
Solomons, MD

On Oct 11, 2016 7:25 AM, "Kevin Deluzio via CnC-List" 
wrote:

My first haul-out with a new-to-me 1980 C&C30 with an Atomic 4 as well. I
like the idea of using the shop-vac to blow the water out. Do you connect
that to the same location - at water intake hose disconnected from seacock ?

Kevin




*From: *Josh Muckley 
*Subject: **Re: Stus-List Winterizing an Atomic 4*
*Date: *October 10, 2016 at 10:27:53 PM EDT
*To: *"C&C List" 


You can plumb in auxiliary suctions that will let you draw glycol straight
out of the jug.  If you haul the boat you can stuff a tygon hose up the
through hull and beer bong the glycol into the engine.  Or you can try the
seaflush.  I have one and it works, though it might be a bit over priced.
I like using the shop vac to blow the water out.  That may actually be
sufficient.   I am cautious though and carefully consider the possibility
of stagnant loops of water.  So, despite "blowing out"  the engine, I also
run glycol.  The nice thing is that I don't have to worry as much about the
water diluting the glycol.  It takes way less glycol to provide freeze
protection.

http://www.seaflush.com/sea-flush-1/

Josh Muckley
S/V Sea Hawk
1989 C&C 37+
Solomons, MD

On Oct 10, 2016 9:50 PM, "RANDY via CnC-List"  wrote:

> My first haul-out with my 30-1 (purchased in January) is coming up in a
> few weeks, sadly. The PO advised me to just run antifreeze through the
> raw-water cooling system until it comes out the exhaust.  My main question
> is how to get the antifreeze into the raw water intake.  I've seen a gadget
> made from a toilet plunger with a garden hose plumbed into the rubber cone,
> that can be held over the raw water intake with the other end of the hose
> in a bucket of antifreeze.  Any other recommended techniques?  Any other
> general tips on properly winterizing an A4?
>
> Thanks,
> Randy
>
>
>

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This list is supported by the generous donations of our members. If you
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Contributions are greatly appreciated!
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what we do, please help us pay for our costs by donating. All Contributions are 
greatly appreciated!

Re: Stus-List Winterizing an Atomic 4

[phorvati . via CnC-List]

U have to drain the block.  Side inspection plate will leak if you dont
drain it.  Its fragile as it is.  It doesnt take too much freezing to
develop leaks.  Block drain plug is under distributor, just aft of side
inspection plate.  It's pita. Moyer sells extention to make this easy.
On Oct 11, 2016 12:12 PM, "Michael Brown via CnC-List" <
cnc-list@cnc-list.com> wrote:

> My atomic 4 is raw water cooled, I have drained the engine and water pump
> using the drain plugs and not used any antifreeze. That has worked in
> Toronto
> for the last nine years.
>
> I did experiment with a thin tube and suction pump the first year to see
> how much water
> was left in the block. I doubt it was a rigorous test but there was not
> much.
>
> Michael Brown
> Windburn
> C&C 30-1
>
> ___
>
> This list is supported by the generous donations of our members. If you
> like what we do, please help us pay for our costs by donating. All
> Contributions are greatly appreciated!
>
>
___

This list is supported by the generous donations of our members. If you like 
what we do, please help us pay for our costs by donating. All Contributions are 
greatly appreciated!

Re: Stus-List Winterizing an Atomic 4

[Michael Brown via CnC-List]

My atomic 4 is raw water cooled, I have drained the engine and water pump
using the drain plugs and not used any antifreeze. That has worked in Toronto
for the last nine years.

I did experiment with a thin tube and suction pump the first year to see how 
much water
was left in the block. I doubt it was a rigorous test but there was not much.

Michael Brown
Windburn
C&C 30-1
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Re: Stus-List Winterizing an Atomic 4

[Marek Dziedzic via CnC-List]

This is how I do it with my diesel. Always on the hard. I warm up the engine 
first, using fresh water into that bucket.

Marek

From: Della Barba, Joe via CnC-List
Sent: Tuesday, October 11, 2016 11:48
To: cnc-list@cnc-list.com
Cc: Della Barba, Joe
Subject: Re: Stus-List Winterizing an Atomic 4

When my A4 was raw water cooled I did it like so:
The water intake hose goes into a big 5 gallon bucket full of anti-freeze. I 
put a hose on the exhaust that does the same. The engine pumps the anti-freeze 
around and around and when it gets up to temp I shut it off and change the oil. 
 This can be done in or out of the water.
Joe
Coquina
C&C 35 MK I



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Re: Stus-List Winterizing an Atomic 4

[Marek Dziedzic via CnC-List]

Danny,

Good point. I know the issue quite well (first hand experience; not from hard 
starting, but from actually winterising the engine). I don’t use the shopvac; I 
just run the engine and suck in 5 gal of antifreeze. But if you wanted to push 
the water out of the system, you have to connect after the pump. Probably the 
best would be to drain the muffler first, push the water out and drain it again?

Marek

From: Danny Haughey via CnC-List
Sent: Tuesday, October 11, 2016 10:54
To: cnc-list@cnc-list.com
Cc: Danny Haughey
Subject: Re: Stus-List Winterizing an Atomic 4


Marek,

the worry is back-filling through the exhaust.  if the engine is not running 
there is a very real risk of water going in through the exhaust manifold 
because there is no pressure from the exhaust of the running engine pushing the 
water out.  It is the same issue if you are having trouble starting the engine 
and you let the starter continue to turn everything for an extended time 
without the engine firing.  It is a well documented issue on the Moyer Marine 
forums.  The cooling pump itself is what pumps the water in during difficulty 
starting while turning the starter.

Danny

On 10/11/2016 10:42 AM, Marek Dziedzic via CnC-List wrote:
You have to connect the shopvac _after_ the water pump. If your water pump is 
any good it will not allow anything to pass through it (when it Is not 
turning). And if it does, you have to change the impeller.

Marek


From: Kevin Deluzio via CnC-List
Sent: Tuesday, October 11, 2016 07:25
To: cnc-list@cnc-list.com
Cc: Kevin Deluzio
Subject: Re: Stus-List Winterizing an Atomic 4

My first haul-out with a new-to-me 1980 C&C30 with an Atomic 4 as well. I like 
the idea of using the shop-vac to blow the water out. Do you connect that to 
the same location - at water intake hose disconnected from seacock ?

Kevin




From: Josh Muckley 
Subject: Re: Stus-List Winterizing an Atomic 4
Date: October 10, 2016 at 10:27:53 PM EDT
To: "C&C List" 



You can plumb in auxiliary suctions that will let you draw glycol straight out 
of the jug.  If you haul the boat you can stuff a tygon hose up the through 
hull and beer bong the glycol into the engine.  Or you can try the seaflush.  I 
have one and it works, though it might be a bit over priced.  I like using the 
shop vac to blow the water out.  That may actually be sufficient.   I am 
cautious though and carefully consider the possibility of stagnant loops of 
water.  So, despite "blowing out"  the engine, I also run glycol.  The nice 
thing is that I don't have to worry as much about the water diluting the 
glycol.  It takes way less glycol to provide freeze protection.

http://www.seaflush.com/sea-flush-1/

Josh Muckley
S/V Sea Hawk
1989 C&C 37+
Solomons, MD


On Oct 10, 2016 9:50 PM, "RANDY via CnC-List"  wrote:
My first haul-out with my 30-1 (purchased in January) is coming up in a few 
weeks, sadly. The PO advised me to just run antifreeze through the raw-water 
cooling system until it comes out the exhaust.  My main question is how to get 
the antifreeze into the raw water intake.  I've seen a gadget made from a 
toilet plunger with a garden hose plumbed into the rubber cone, that can be 
held over the raw water intake with the other end of the hose in a bucket of 
antifreeze.  Any other recommended techniques?  Any other general tips on 
properly winterizing an A4?

Thanks,
Randy






___

This list is supported by the generous donations of our members. If you like 
what we do, please help us pay for our costs by donating. All Contributions are 
greatly appreciated!


___

This list is supported by the generous donations of our members. If you like 
what we do, please help us pay for our costs by donating. All Contributions are 
greatly appreciated!

Re: Stus-List Winterizing an Atomic 4

[Della Barba, Joe via CnC-List]

When my A4 was raw water cooled I did it like so:
The water intake hose goes into a big 5 gallon bucket full of anti-freeze. I 
put a hose on the exhaust that does the same. The engine pumps the anti-freeze 
around and around and when it gets up to temp I shut it off and change the oil. 
 This can be done in or out of the water.
Joe
Coquina
C&C 35 MK I

From: CnC-List [mailto:cnc-list-boun...@cnc-list.com] On Behalf Of Danny 
Haughey via CnC-List
Sent: Tuesday, October 11, 2016 10:50
To: cnc-list@cnc-list.com
Cc: Danny Haughey 
Subject: Re: Stus-List Winterizing an Atomic 4


Marek,

the worry is back-filling through the exhaust.  if the engine is not running 
there is a very real risk of water going in through the exhaust manifold 
because there is no pressure from the exhaust of the running engine pushing the 
water out.  It is the same issue if you are having trouble starting the engine 
and you let the starter continue to turn everything for an extended time 
without the engine firing.  It is a well documented issue on the Moyer Marine 
forums.  The cooling pump itself is what pumps the water in during difficulty 
starting while turning the starter.

Danny

On 10/11/2016 10:42 AM, Marek Dziedzic via CnC-List wrote:
You have to connect the shopvac _after_ the water pump. If your water pump is 
any good it will not allow anything to pass through it (when it Is not 
turning). And if it does, you have to change the impeller.

Marek


From: Kevin Deluzio via CnC-List
Sent: Tuesday, October 11, 2016 07:25
To: cnc-list@cnc-list.com<mailto:cnc-list@cnc-list.com>
Cc: Kevin Deluzio
Subject: Re: Stus-List Winterizing an Atomic 4

My first haul-out with a new-to-me 1980 C&C30 with an Atomic 4 as well. I like 
the idea of using the shop-vac to blow the water out. Do you connect that to 
the same location - at water intake hose disconnected from seacock ?

Kevin





From: Josh Muckley mailto:muckl...@gmail.com>>
Subject: Re: Stus-List Winterizing an Atomic 4
Date: October 10, 2016 at 10:27:53 PM EDT
To: "C&C List" mailto:cnc-list@cnc-list.com>>




You can plumb in auxiliary suctions that will let you draw glycol straight out 
of the jug.  If you haul the boat you can stuff a tygon hose up the through 
hull and beer bong the glycol into the engine.  Or you can try the seaflush.  I 
have one and it works, though it might be a bit over priced.  I like using the 
shop vac to blow the water out.  That may actually be sufficient.   I am 
cautious though and carefully consider the possibility of stagnant loops of 
water.  So, despite "blowing out"  the engine, I also run glycol.  The nice 
thing is that I don't have to worry as much about the water diluting the 
glycol.  It takes way less glycol to provide freeze protection.

http://www.seaflush.com/sea-flush-1/

Josh Muckley
S/V Sea Hawk
1989 C&C 37+
Solomons, MD

On Oct 10, 2016 9:50 PM, "RANDY via CnC-List" 
mailto:cnc-list@cnc-list.com>> wrote:
My first haul-out with my 30-1 (purchased in January) is coming up in a few 
weeks, sadly. The PO advised me to just run antifreeze through the raw-water 
cooling system until it comes out the exhaust.  My main question is how to get 
the antifreeze into the raw water intake.  I've seen a gadget made from a 
toilet plunger with a garden hose plumbed into the rubber cone, that can be 
held over the raw water intake with the other end of the hose in a bucket of 
antifreeze.  Any other recommended techniques?  Any other general tips on 
properly winterizing an A4?

Thanks,
Randy






___



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what we do, please help us pay for our costs by donating. All Contributions are 
greatly appreciated!

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what we do, please help us pay for our costs by donating. All Contributions are 
greatly appreciated!

Re: Stus-List Winterizing an Atomic 4

[Danny Haughey via CnC-List]

Marek,

the worry is back-filling through the exhaust.  if the engine is not 
running there is a very real risk of water going in through the exhaust 
manifold because there is no pressure from the exhaust of the running 
engine pushing the water out.  It is the same issue if you are having 
trouble starting the engine and you let the starter continue to turn 
everything for an extended time without the engine firing.  It is a well 
documented issue on the Moyer Marine forums.  The cooling pump itself is 
what pumps the water in during difficulty starting while turning the 
starter.


Danny


On 10/11/2016 10:42 AM, Marek Dziedzic via CnC-List wrote:
You have to connect the shopvac _after_ the water pump. If your water 
pump is any good it will not allow anything to pass through it (when 
it Is not turning). And if it does, you have to change the impeller.

Marek
*From:* Kevin Deluzio via CnC-List
*Sent:* Tuesday, October 11, 2016 07:25
*To:* cnc-list@cnc-list.com
*Cc:* Kevin Deluzio
*Subject:* Re: Stus-List Winterizing an Atomic 4
My first haul-out with a new-to-me 1980 C&C30 with an Atomic 4 as 
well. I like the idea of using the shop-vac to blow the water out. Do 
you connect that to the same location - at water intake hose 
disconnected from seacock ?

Kevin


*From:*Josh Muckley 
*Subject:**Re: Stus-List Winterizing an Atomic 4*
*Date:*October 10, 2016 at 10:27:53 PM EDT
*To:*"C&C List" 


You can plumb in auxiliary suctions that will let you draw glycol 
straight out of the jug.  If you haul the boat you can stuff a tygon 
hose up the through hull and beer bong the glycol into the engine.  
Or you can try the seaflush.  I have one and it works, though it 
might be a bit over priced.  I like using the shop vac to blow the 
water out.  That may actually be sufficient.   I am cautious though 
and carefully consider the possibility of stagnant loops of water. 
So, despite "blowing out"  the engine, I also run glycol.  The nice 
thing is that I don't have to worry as much about the water diluting 
the glycol.  It takes way less glycol to provide freeze protection.


http://www.seaflush.com/sea-flush-1/

Josh Muckley
S/V Sea Hawk
1989 C&C 37+
Solomons, MD

On Oct 10, 2016 9:50 PM, "RANDY via CnC-List"  
wrote:


My first haul-out with my 30-1 (purchased in January) is coming
up in a few weeks, sadly. The PO advised me to just run
antifreeze through the raw-water cooling system until it comes
out the exhaust.  My main question is how to get the antifreeze
into the raw water intake.  I've seen a gadget made from a toilet
plunger with a garden hose plumbed into the rubber cone, that can
be held over the raw water intake with the other end of the hose
in a bucket of antifreeze.  Any other recommended techniques? 
Any other general tips on properly winterizing an A4?

Thanks,
Randy





___

This list is supported by the generous donations of our members. If you like 
what we do, please help us pay for our costs by donating. All Contributions are 
greatly appreciated!


___

This list is supported by the generous donations of our members. If you like 
what we do, please help us pay for our costs by donating. All Contributions are 
greatly appreciated!

Re: Stus-List Winterizing an Atomic 4

[Marek Dziedzic via CnC-List]

You have to connect the shopvac _after_ the water pump. If your water pump is 
any good it will not allow anything to pass through it (when it Is not 
turning). And if it does, you have to change the impeller.

Marek


From: Kevin Deluzio via CnC-List
Sent: Tuesday, October 11, 2016 07:25
To: cnc-list@cnc-list.com
Cc: Kevin Deluzio
Subject: Re: Stus-List Winterizing an Atomic 4

My first haul-out with a new-to-me 1980 C&C30 with an Atomic 4 as well. I like 
the idea of using the shop-vac to blow the water out. Do you connect that to 
the same location - at water intake hose disconnected from seacock ?

Kevin




From: Josh Muckley 
Subject: Re: Stus-List Winterizing an Atomic 4
Date: October 10, 2016 at 10:27:53 PM EDT
To: "C&C List" 



You can plumb in auxiliary suctions that will let you draw glycol straight out 
of the jug.  If you haul the boat you can stuff a tygon hose up the through 
hull and beer bong the glycol into the engine.  Or you can try the seaflush.  I 
have one and it works, though it might be a bit over priced.  I like using the 
shop vac to blow the water out.  That may actually be sufficient.   I am 
cautious though and carefully consider the possibility of stagnant loops of 
water.  So, despite "blowing out"  the engine, I also run glycol.  The nice 
thing is that I don't have to worry as much about the water diluting the 
glycol.  It takes way less glycol to provide freeze protection.

http://www.seaflush.com/sea-flush-1/

Josh Muckley
S/V Sea Hawk
1989 C&C 37+
Solomons, MD


On Oct 10, 2016 9:50 PM, "RANDY via CnC-List"  wrote:
My first haul-out with my 30-1 (purchased in January) is coming up in a few 
weeks, sadly. The PO advised me to just run antifreeze through the raw-water 
cooling system until it comes out the exhaust.  My main question is how to get 
the antifreeze into the raw water intake.  I've seen a gadget made from a 
toilet plunger with a garden hose plumbed into the rubber cone, that can be 
held over the raw water intake with the other end of the hose in a bucket of 
antifreeze.  Any other recommended techniques?  Any other general tips on 
properly winterizing an A4?

Thanks,
Randy



___

This list is supported by the generous donations of our members. If you like 
what we do, please help us pay for our costs by donating. All Contributions are 
greatly appreciated!

Re: Stus-List Winterizing an Atomic 4

[Stevan Plavsa via CnC-List]

I use stabilizer and don't bother running the carb dry. I don't know if I
buy that bit of logic anyway because the bowl doesn't empty just because
you run the carb "dry". There's still fuel in there, that's my layman's
understanding, anyway. So I stick to the K.I.S.S principle and don't mess
with running the fuel lines dry. Marvel Myster Oil in the spark plugs
before winter is an excellent suggestion, I do that too - then I hand crank
a few times to circulate the oil.
So far I've never had any issues with the old A4. It gets new plugs, new
ignition components and fresh oil more than regularly.

Steve
Suhana, C&C 32
Toronto



On Tue, Oct 11, 2016 at 9:02 AM, Danny Haughey via CnC-List <
cnc-list@cnc-list.com> wrote:

> When I had an A4, I would typically just pull the hose off the through
> hull and stick it in a jug of glycol, start the engine and let it run until
> I saw it at the exhaust..  I'd usually do another gallon after it started
> coming out the exhaust.  easy peasy!  You DO NOT want to add pressure to
> the intake side if you're still connected at the exhaust without the engine
> running.  You will push water into the engine.  It is best to use the
> engine's usual working condition to pull the glycol through.  If you have a
> thermostat, run the engine on fresh water until it warms up.  You can just
> run a hose into a bucket and suck the water through the same way you would
> with the glycol.  With a thermostat that will only take a few minutes.
>
> This is exactly the same way I do my current diesel engine.
>
> Moyer also suggests pulling the plugs and adding some marvel mystery oil
> to each cylinder.  He also recommends running some MMO in the gas.
>
> Remember to cut the gas valve and run the engine out of gas or fog it or
> something so that gas isn't sitting in the bowl all winter.
>
> Danny
>
> On 10/11/2016 7:24 AM, Kevin Deluzio via CnC-List wrote:
>
> My first haul-out with a new-to-me 1980 C&C30 with an Atomic 4 as well. I
> like the idea of using the shop-vac to blow the water out. Do you connect
> that to the same location - at water intake hose disconnected from seacock ?
>
> Kevin
>
>
>
>
> *From: *Josh Muckley 
> *Subject: **Re: Stus-List Winterizing an Atomic 4*
> *Date: *October 10, 2016 at 10:27:53 PM EDT
> *To: *"C&C List" 
>
>
> You can plumb in auxiliary suctions that will let you draw glycol straight
> out of the jug.  If you haul the boat you can stuff a tygon hose up the
> through hull and beer bong the glycol into the engine.  Or you can try the
> seaflush.  I have one and it works, though it might be a bit over priced.
> I like using the shop vac to blow the water out.  That may actually be
> sufficient.   I am cautious though and carefully consider the possibility
> of stagnant loops of water.  So, despite "blowing out"  the engine, I also
> run glycol.  The nice thing is that I don't have to worry as much about the
> water diluting the glycol.  It takes way less glycol to provide freeze
> protection.
>
> http://www.seaflush.com/sea-flush-1/
>
> Josh Muckley
> S/V Sea Hawk
> 1989 C&C 37+
> Solomons, MD
>
> On Oct 10, 2016 9:50 PM, "RANDY via CnC-List" 
> wrote:
>
>> My first haul-out with my 30-1 (purchased in January) is coming up in a
>> few weeks, sadly. The PO advised me to just run antifreeze through the
>> raw-water cooling system until it comes out the exhaust.  My main question
>> is how to get the antifreeze into the raw water intake.  I've seen a gadget
>> made from a toilet plunger with a garden hose plumbed into the rubber cone,
>> that can be held over the raw water intake with the other end of the hose
>> in a bucket of antifreeze.  Any other recommended techniques?  Any other
>> general tips on properly winterizing an A4?
>>
>> Thanks,
>> Randy
>>
>>
>>
>
>
> ___
>
> This list is supported by the generous donations of our members. If you like 
> what we do, please help us pay for our costs by donating. All Contributions 
> are greatly appreciated!
>
>
>
> ___
>
> This list is supported by the generous donations of our members. If you
> like what we do, please help us pay for our costs by donating. All
> Contributions are greatly appreciated!
>
>
___

This list is supported by the generous donations of our members. If you like 
what we do, please help us pay for our costs by donating. All Contributions are 
greatly appreciated!

Re: Stus-List Winterizing an Atomic 4

[Danny Haughey via CnC-List]

When I had an A4, I would typically just pull the hose off the through 
hull and stick it in a jug of glycol, start the engine and let it run 
until I saw it at the exhaust..  I'd usually do another gallon after it 
started coming out the exhaust.  easy peasy!  You DO NOT want to add 
pressure to the intake side if you're still connected at the exhaust 
without the engine running.  You will push water into the engine.  It is 
best to use the engine's usual working condition to pull the glycol 
through.  If you have a thermostat, run the engine on fresh water until 
it warms up.  You can just run a hose into a bucket and suck the water 
through the same way you would with the glycol.  With a thermostat that 
will only take a few minutes.


This is exactly the same way I do my current diesel engine.

Moyer also suggests pulling the plugs and adding some marvel mystery oil 
to each cylinder.  He also recommends running some MMO in the gas.


Remember to cut the gas valve and run the engine out of gas or fog it or 
something so that gas isn't sitting in the bowl all winter.


Danny


On 10/11/2016 7:24 AM, Kevin Deluzio via CnC-List wrote:
My first haul-out with a new-to-me 1980 C&C30 with an Atomic 4 as 
well. I like the idea of using the shop-vac to blow the water out. Do 
you connect that to the same location - at water intake hose 
disconnected from seacock ?


Kevin





*From:*Josh Muckley mailto:muckl...@gmail.com>>
*Subject:**Re: Stus-List Winterizing an Atomic 4*
*Date:*October 10, 2016 at 10:27:53 PM EDT
*To:*"C&C List" mailto:cnc-list@cnc-list.com>>


You can plumb in auxiliary suctions that will let you draw glycol 
straight out of the jug.  If you haul the boat you can stuff a tygon 
hose up the through hull and beer bong the glycol into the engine.  
Or you can try the seaflush.  I have one and it works, though it 
might be a bit over priced.  I like using the shop vac to blow the 
water out.  That may actually be sufficient.   I am cautious though 
and carefully consider the possibility of stagnant loops of water.  
So, despite "blowing out"  the engine, I also run glycol.  The nice 
thing is that I don't have to worry as much about the water diluting 
the glycol.  It takes way less glycol to provide freeze protection.


http://www.seaflush.com/sea-flush-1/

Josh Muckley
S/V Sea Hawk
1989 C&C 37+
Solomons, MD


On Oct 10, 2016 9:50 PM, "RANDY via CnC-List" <mailto:cnc-list@cnc-list.com>> wrote:


My first haul-out with my 30-1 (purchased in January) is coming
up in a few weeks, sadly. The PO advised me to just run
antifreeze through the raw-water cooling system until it comes
out the exhaust.  My main question is how to get the antifreeze
into the raw water intake.  I've seen a gadget made from a toilet
plunger with a garden hose plumbed into the rubber cone, that can
be held over the raw water intake with the other end of the hose
in a bucket of antifreeze.  Any other recommended techniques? Any
other general tips on properly winterizing an A4?

Thanks,
Randy






___

This list is supported by the generous donations of our members. If you like 
what we do, please help us pay for our costs by donating. All Contributions are 
greatly appreciated!


___

This list is supported by the generous donations of our members. If you like 
what we do, please help us pay for our costs by donating. All Contributions are 
greatly appreciated!

Re: Stus-List Winterizing an Atomic 4

[Kevin Deluzio via CnC-List]

My first haul-out with a new-to-me 1980 C&C30 with an Atomic 4 as well. I like 
the idea of using the shop-vac to blow the water out. Do you connect that to 
the same location - at water intake hose disconnected from seacock ?

Kevin




> From: Josh Muckley mailto:muckl...@gmail.com>>
> Subject: Re: Stus-List Winterizing an Atomic 4
> Date: October 10, 2016 at 10:27:53 PM EDT
> To: "C&C List" mailto:cnc-list@cnc-list.com>>
> 
> 
> You can plumb in auxiliary suctions that will let you draw glycol straight 
> out of the jug.  If you haul the boat you can stuff a tygon hose up the 
> through hull and beer bong the glycol into the engine.  Or you can try the 
> seaflush.  I have one and it works, though it might be a bit over priced.  I 
> like using the shop vac to blow the water out.  That may actually be 
> sufficient.   I am cautious though and carefully consider the possibility of 
> stagnant loops of water.  So, despite "blowing out"  the engine, I also run 
> glycol.  The nice thing is that I don't have to worry as much about the water 
> diluting the glycol.  It takes way less glycol to provide freeze protection.
> 
> http://www.seaflush.com/sea-flush-1/ <http://www.seaflush.com/sea-flush-1/>
> Josh Muckley
> S/V Sea Hawk
> 1989 C&C 37+
> Solomons, MD
> 
> 
> On Oct 10, 2016 9:50 PM, "RANDY via CnC-List"  <mailto:cnc-list@cnc-list.com>> wrote:
> My first haul-out with my 30-1 (purchased in January) is coming up in a few 
> weeks, sadly. The PO advised me to just run antifreeze through the raw-water 
> cooling system until it comes out the exhaust.  My main question is how to 
> get the antifreeze into the raw water intake.  I've seen a gadget made from a 
> toilet plunger with a garden hose plumbed into the rubber cone, that can be 
> held over the raw water intake with the other end of the hose in a bucket of 
> antifreeze.  Any other recommended techniques?  Any other general tips on 
> properly winterizing an A4?
> 
> Thanks,
> Randy
> 
> 

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greatly appreciated!

Re: Stus-List Winterizing an Atomic 4

[Marek Dziedzic via CnC-List]

Different engine, but the same procedure.

I take the intake hose off the seacock and connect a length of hose (about 2 m 
(6-7 Ft)). This goes into a bucket (e.g. from home depot, 5 gal). I run a 
garden hose to it from a water supply. I fill the bucket with water and start 
the engine. This way you can run the engine as long as you want (e.g. until it 
warms up). You regulate the level of the water in the bucket by adjusting the 
throttle and the flow of water. When the engine is warm enough, I stop it. Now 
I replace the water with antifreeze. A few gallons should be enough. In my 
Perkins I use almost a full bucket (antifreeze is cheap, engine parts are not). 
When the AF is gone from the bucket, I stop the engine. My long hose is almost 
transparent so I can time it, so there is very little AF left in it. If you 
want to be sure, you can capture some of the AF coming out of the exhaust and 
check with a $15 refractometer.

This method helps with changing the oil- the engine is warm.

You can push the water out of the muffler with a shopvac half way through.

Marek
C270, “Legato”
Ottawa, ON


Sent from Mail for Windows 10

From: RANDY via CnC-List
Sent: October 10, 2016 21:50
To: cnc-list
Cc: RANDY
Subject: Stus-List Winterizing an Atomic 4

My first haul-out with my 30-1 (purchased in January) is coming up in a few 
weeks, sadly. The PO advised me to just run antifreeze through the raw-water 
cooling system until it comes out the exhaust.  My main question is how to get 
the antifreeze into the raw water intake.  I've seen a gadget made from a 
toilet plunger with a garden hose plumbed into the rubber cone, that can be 
held over the raw water intake with the other end of the hose in a bucket of 
antifreeze.  Any other recommended techniques?  Any other general tips on 
properly winterizing an A4?

Thanks,
Randy
___

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what we do, please help us pay for our costs by donating. All Contributions are 
greatly appreciated!

Re: Stus-List Winterizing an Atomic 4

[Stevan Plavsa via CnC-List]

I just disconnect the intake hose from the seacock and stick it into a
bottle of antifreeze. I'm running without thermostat however so it's
simple. If you're new with the A4 a great resource is moyer marine. The
forums there are really helpful.

Steve
Suhana, C&C 32
Toronto


On Mon, Oct 10, 2016 at 9:49 PM, RANDY via CnC-List 
wrote:

> My first haul-out with my 30-1 (purchased in January) is coming up in a
> few weeks, sadly. The PO advised me to just run antifreeze through the
> raw-water cooling system until it comes out the exhaust.  My main question
> is how to get the antifreeze into the raw water intake.  I've seen a gadget
> made from a toilet plunger with a garden hose plumbed into the rubber cone,
> that can be held over the raw water intake with the other end of the hose
> in a bucket of antifreeze.  Any other recommended techniques?  Any other
> general tips on properly winterizing an A4?
>
> Thanks,
> Randy
>
> ___
>
> This list is supported by the generous donations of our members. If you
> like what we do, please help us pay for our costs by donating. All
> Contributions are greatly appreciated!
>
>
___

This list is supported by the generous donations of our members. If you like 
what we do, please help us pay for our costs by donating. All Contributions are 
greatly appreciated!

Re: Stus-List Winterizing an Atomic 4

[Josh Muckley via CnC-List]

You can plumb in auxiliary suctions that will let you draw glycol straight
out of the jug.  If you haul the boat you can stuff a tygon hose up the
through hull and beer bong the glycol into the engine.  Or you can try the
seaflush.  I have one and it works, though it might be a bit over priced.
I like using the shop vac to blow the water out.  That may actually be
sufficient.   I am cautious though and carefully consider the possibility
of stagnant loops of water.  So, despite "blowing out"  the engine, I also
run glycol.  The nice thing is that I don't have to worry as much about the
water diluting the glycol.  It takes way less glycol to provide freeze
protection.

http://www.seaflush.com/sea-flush-1/

Josh Muckley
S/V Sea Hawk
1989 C&C 37+
Solomons, MD

On Oct 10, 2016 9:50 PM, "RANDY via CnC-List"  wrote:

> My first haul-out with my 30-1 (purchased in January) is coming up in a
> few weeks, sadly. The PO advised me to just run antifreeze through the
> raw-water cooling system until it comes out the exhaust.  My main question
> is how to get the antifreeze into the raw water intake.  I've seen a gadget
> made from a toilet plunger with a garden hose plumbed into the rubber cone,
> that can be held over the raw water intake with the other end of the hose
> in a bucket of antifreeze.  Any other recommended techniques?  Any other
> general tips on properly winterizing an A4?
>
> Thanks,
> Randy
>
> ___
>
> This list is supported by the generous donations of our members. If you
> like what we do, please help us pay for our costs by donating. All
> Contributions are greatly appreciated!
>
>
___

This list is supported by the generous donations of our members. If you like 
what we do, please help us pay for our costs by donating. All Contributions are 
greatly appreciated!